No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 414: Pernilla Lindberg

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

2018 ANA Inspiration champ Pernilla Lindberg joins the show to chat about her dramatic win over Inbee Park in the 8 hole playoff in 2018, growing up in Sweden, how competitive skiing shaped her golf career, Oklahoma State, becoming a major champion, how the men's game can help the women's game, and so much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying of Podcast. Sully here, we have a great chat ahead of the A&A Inspiration is coming week with former champion, Pernilla Lindbergh. Pernilla is from Sweden and she won if you remember in the eight-hole playoff against Jennifer

Song and NB Park three years ago now. That was a crazy wild playoff that went all the way into Monday. We talk a lot about that, a lot about what makes the A&A special. Her career, all kinds of things. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at Walker Trolley's. So you've heard us talk a lot about these push cards.

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Check out the new Cape 1.5 and let's get to Pernillo Lindbergh. Okay, I hope I say it right. It doesn't look too difficult to pronounce, but bullnoss Sweden. Is that sound right? That's that's pretty good. Yeah. Okay. I don't have the quite the Swedish, you know, tongue if you will, but all right So is bolnos Sweden a place I've never heard of is it a golf hub? I'm what I want to get down to is understanding why Sweden Punches above its weight like it does in the golf world. It's not a great golf climate not a big population yet We hear a lot about Swedish golf. Tell me about bolnos Yeah, so exactly. We do produce a lot of good golfers, but they for sure don't come out of Bullness normally. I can tell you that. The population of Bullness is like city centers about

10,000 people. The whole county is about 25,000 people. We are located about three hours north of Stockholm, which also means we're about a 10 hour drive south of the Arctic Circle. And that kind of just gives you an idea that the summers are not very long. The winters are pretty rough, and that means the golf season is short. Is there a big market for indoor golf and practice then?

I mean, I just struggle so much to understand how people from cold climates are so successful in pro golf. Yeah, so when I grew up, no, we did not have any fancy indoor facilities. I mean, yes, I would be hitting balls into a neck. That was probably, you know, a couple of yards in front of me. But obviously, if you grew up in the southern part of Sweden, the golf season was a bit longer. You probably had a chance to practice a bit more. But for me,

it was, golf was just something I did in the summer and I would ski in the winter. And I mean, that that's just the way I was brought up, but I also think that actually, if you look at Swedes, we might not come out super young and be very good, but we tend to have pretty long careers. And I think that's just because we were brought up, being much more all-round at Ledyk and just had kind of a good balance in life

from an early age regal wasn't the only thing when you were the only thing we did. So when you say skiing I assume just the beginner slopes and the intermediate slopes right that's just leisurely skiing. I know about your background that's what I'm talking about. No I was quite. So I did all different disciplines, Slalom, Giant Salom, Super G, Downhill. So I would throw myself down the slopes, yeah, as fast as I could.

And I did that. I think I stood on a pair of skis for the first time when I was two and a half years old. And that I never looked back. That was just what I loved doing in the winter. And my parents were not big skiers, but they bought a ski house up in the mountains when I was, I think, spend long weekends and a lot of time there in the winter. But my family, they were really just golf fanatics. So when I, when I was 16 and I chose kind of to go all in on golf over skiing, I have to say that I think mom was happy that she didn't have to worry about me hurting myself on the ski slopes anymore. And dad who absolutely loves his golf,

I think he was very happy to hear that decision too. It's amazing how many stories about a golfer being injured start with. So I was skiing blah, blah, blah. And how does competitive skiing help shape you as a professional golfer? Is there any physical strengths that come with skiing? I imagine it's a lot of leg strength or whatnot that comes with that.

Do you see any direct translation into how that helps you with a golf swing? Oh, absolutely. When I was younger, every golf coach who ever watched me swing, they always said that, you know, my strong legs helped me a lot in my golf swing balance and just that strong base and then obviously it's a long time ago now that I gave up skiing so I probably lost some of my leg strength compared to them but no that that was always it helped me out when I was younger I for sure hit the ball farther than I would have done if it wasn't for skiing back then. But then I remember to ask a competitor, I was very, I was very, a very different competitor in skiing versus

golf. In skiing, I was so nervous. I thought I was gonna throw up before every race and in golf, I was so much more calm. I guess that kind of probably has to do with that you're risking your life a little bit more too than when you throw yourself down the ski slope down the golf course. But I remember I always kind of probably has to do with that you're risking your life a little bit more to than when you throw yourself down the ski slope. And the golf course, but it was I remember I always kind of reflected on that. It was so interesting to see how like two different sites of me came out in the two different sports. That is interesting because I always I always associate golf with more nerves and you

know, just because it's so quiet and it's just a very different atmosphere than skiing. But that makes a lot of sense though when you talk about risking your life's so quiet and it's just a very different atmosphere than this game. But that makes a lot of sense though. When you talk about risking your life, don't do it as well. But I could ask you who your big inspiration would be in golf, but I think we would all know the answer to what that would be. But what was the wave like in Sweden after Anika so when some kind of took over, not kind of did take over the LPGA tour, did golf just

become extremely popular, was extremely popular before that? What do you remember about that time period? Yeah, I think golf was already really popular. And you know, when I grew up, we golf was, it's a big sport in the summer, in the summer half of the year in Sweden. We have a lot of golfers, a lot of golf courses. So I guess the sad thing to say is when I grew up, we didn't have much LPJ coverage on TV,

even when Anika was dominating. And if we did, it was in the middle of the night. So I don't really remember, feeling that Anika effect necessarily. Yes, I would wake up on Monday morning and read about it in the news, but I didn't really get a stronger bomb than that, but I guess the one thing was just having that one person where it's like, oh, she managed to do that coming out of Sweden. Okay, that means that I can do it too. And all these other girls that I'm playing with, like one of us might be able to do exactly

what she has done. So, I mean, it was nice to have that, but it's kind of sad to say that I didn't get to watch much of it. That's interesting, though, that you felt like that your country was represented on the world stage and that had an effect in terms of belief for you. I think that, you know, even if you weren't able

to watch it, I think that speaks to the influence. And so, what was your experience in the States before going to Oklahoma State? And I'm asking that in terms of, what was the transition like from Sweden to still water Oklahoma? Because I imagine there's a bit of culture shock there. Yeah, I mean, I had been to the US a few times.

Like I came on vacation when I was four years old and went to Disney's. I don't remember any of that. And then I played a couple of junior events, like one in Tennessee, one in Arizona, but then that was about it. So I really went by what a lot of the older Swedish players were saying. And for some reason, we have had a Swedish pipeline straight to Oklahoma with with golfers, heading to Oklahoma state. And I knew they had all loved it and kind of trusted their word. And then I went on a visit and saw the practice facilities, the golf course, Karsten Kriik, and it sold me. And but yes, for me to walk to class and just see big pickup trucks everywhere and big belt buckles and cowboy hats, that was something I've never seen before.

I would imagine that's still shocking to me sometimes in from this country. But so what was what was your path then to the to the LPGA tour? You've been out there for a long time now, but I'm just kind of give us some background on how you how you made to the LPGA tour. Yeah. So I came over to Oklahoma State and spent four years there, graduated and got my degree. And back then they still had separate Q schools for the they still had separate Q schools for the Symmetra tour and the LPJ tour. So what I did my senior year, I went to the Symmetra tour Q school in the fall and finished second. So I got my status out there, but the nice thing was I didn't have to turn pro right away to get my card. So I stayed through the spring semester,

played NCAAs, and the week after NCAAs went out on the Sumetra tour and did 10 events that summer through the status that I had earned that previous fall, and played good enough in those 10 events to go straight into final stage of Cue School, LPJ C-school. And then finished top 20 there on my first attempt. So that was December of 2009.

And 2010 was my rookie year. And I think I finished 103 on the money list, my rookie year, and top 100 keep their full card. So I went back to QSchool again, which I would have had decent conditional status, even if I didn't, but I knew by going back to QSchool that I had at least a chance of improving it, finished top 20 again and never been back there since. We're going to this, this all kind of culminates into you obviously winning the A and A inspiration a couple of years ago. And we're not going to skip past everything on that path.

But I want to know your 34 now, I believe. Do you feel like one of the older players on the LPGA Tour? And you mentioned kind of the Swedish players are maybe have a later path to professionalism and golfer of a variety of reasons. And the LPGA Tour seems to be trending younger, younger, younger, younger. So I'm just, I'm curious, do you feel like kind of a veteran on the LPGA tour at this point?

I mean, yes and no. I, I've had this discussion with someone not that long ago. And it's kind of funny, because obviously, I've been doing exactly the same thing for the last, yeah, this might 12th year on tour now. So I don't really, in one way, I don't feel much older than when I came out here. So in that way, I'm like, no, I don't feel that old.

But then, yeah, when then it's like, I realized, okay, I am 34, I'm turning 35 later this year. And I see all these girls that are coming out playing so well at 18. Yes, that does make me feel a lot older. But I guess that... So yeah, I could say both yes and no. I don't feel old and I guess that's a good thing, but yeah, when you start realizing how young these girls are, that's when I can kind of start calling myself a veteran, I guess. Well, I'm five days older than you, so I'm... if you're old and I'm old, I just want to let you know where I'm

coming from on that. But who I honestly don't even know the names, who would be on the list with you as far as being on the LPGA tour for 10 straight years or however many years it's been? Who else is on that list? So I mean, I guess one that comes like straight to my mind that because she's one of my best friends out here and we kind of started off traveling together our rookie years, Athahara Munoz from Spain. We went through college exactly the same four years. She graduated from Arizona State,

we turned pro and came out on tour at the same time. And so many other of the girls that we went to college with, they have been out here but might not still be here. But yeah, she just came to mind because she's even another decade of play on tour that you would think of. But now I mean, that's to just have 10 plus straight years out on tour, that's a good career that you have to remind yourself of every now and then.

Well, and that's what we build up to. I think it was your 250th career start. You were 95th in the world in the 2018 A&A inspiration. I've kind of already spoiled where this ends, which is you win this golf tournament, but your ninth year on tour and you have zero LPGA tour wins to date. Was there anything different about that week going into it? And we're going to talk about how all that all unfolded, but did you honestly enter that

week thinking about winning the tournament? I mean, I guess an honest answer is like, no, it's obviously, I teed up every week and I'm still out here and playing because I know I have it in me to win. Now I have proven it, but back then, I knew I had it, but if you would ask me at the start of the week, like, yes, of course I would have said I'm there to win, but did I really, really believe it?

Deep down, probably not, but at the same time, like things were really heading in a good direction with my game, but saying that golf is so funny, two weeks before my win, we played in Phoenix, and I almost finished dead last after two days. I mean, I missed the cut by so many shots. I mean, you see that, and then you would say that this girl is going to go and win the major in two weeks time? No, like that's, but that's golf for you. Everyone who's out here on tour, I mean, they are here for a reason because they're really good golfers. And for me, I'd said my whole career that, you know, I'd been improving each and every year. I kind of been climbing up slowly on the Money List each and every year. And I'd just been

building and learning from so many experiences. And I did finish fours at the tour championship. I did finish fours at the tour championship. And well, probably would have been about four months before my win. And that was, that Sunday was the first time that I felt really comfortable in contention on Sunday afternoon. So without that experience, I do not think I would have been as comfortable

as I was coming down the stretch four months later at the A&A. But yeah, I did, after I missed that cat in Phoenix, I had the two longest grinding sessions, both Saturday and Sunday on the range with my coach. We were there for morning till night for two straight days and obviously already two weeks later that paid off. Wow. That's crazy. And it's one thing too to just, I don't know, I can't imagine a sequence like this that

would be more pressure to win the tournament. You are leading after round one, you are co-leader after round two, you are leading after round three, you're standing on the 18th tee, needing birdie to get into a playoff, You do it. And then you're in a playoff with what I would say is probably the best player of this of this generation, MB Park, the best major champion of the generation. And the playoff was pretty brief from what I understand, right? Yeah. I mean, if you call a toll set with also having to play, you know, an hour on Monday morning brief, sure. How do you possibly sleep knowing that you have to wake up and play sudden death playoff? So, that's, you're not the first one to ask me that question.

And it actually really helped me that I had been leading the tournament already from Thursday. Because I get more and more comfortable for each and every night. You know, on Thursday night, I was probably more nervous than I was going to bed on Sunday. So that really helped me that I, I mean, that's kind of like, I got to practice what it felt like to sleep on the lead for a few nights in a row. So that, that helped me. And then also what I told myself, and I mean every golfer does a lot of self-talk,

but that particular week, I for some reason I actually seem to listen to myself quite good. And I going into, or I'm going to bed on Sunday night, I was like, you know what? I've done all the really hard work to get myself in this position. I have nothing to lose now. And I mean, that's really the way it was, because it was, I mean, it's pretty much a match, a match play situation between me and

Inbee. So that made me feel a lot more comfortable too. Well, what's it like to be hitting some of the biggest golf shots of your life in the dark? Like, how much harder is it for your depth perception and reading greens? I mean, the third playoff hole, it was dark. Darker than the cameras, make it look, I'm sure. But of course. The fourth was literally under floodlights.

Like was there any point where you're like, this is ridiculous, let's just come back tomorrow morning. I mean, did they make you keep playing? I just wanna know what that kind of, you know, the biggest shots you're gonna hit of your life and you're not able to use your full senses. That's gotta be maddening. I was so in it that I didn't really even think about it.

I, so after, and I know, like, now that sounds crazy. And I mean, I watch a lot of golf on TV and I will be sitting there saying, I can't believe they're playing but I They the rules officials came over and asked me and in be after the third playoff hall if we wanted to go back for a fourth We me and in be both kind of looked at each other and we both nodded and back we went because I think we were both just so In it that we wanted to win it right there and then That we didn't even think about anything else and it were both just so in it that we wanted to win it right there and then that we

didn't even think about anything else and it gets dark so quickly here in the desert I feel like too that you know when we're driving back to the T able and of course it was dark but not pitch black but but it's a par five as well so by the time we've laid off but now we're hitting wedges, like it's got a lot darker. So, but saying that I remember my birdie puffed, it's probably about, I don't know, 25 feet or something. I was kind of like, please lag this up close to the hole. I mean, of course, I would want to make it, but looking back at it all, I'm so happy that both Inbee and myself made par on that whole. Because otherwise, I feel like if one of us would have wanted or lost it, would there have been discussions,

they shouldn't have played, it wasn't fair, blah, blah, blah. So now it's kind of just cool to look back at, but I'm kind of glad it wasn't decided in the dark, I guess. Does it matter in that moment that you're going up against in B Park? Is that any like you've already dealing with all these other things that are going on? Does it change anything as to who you're going up against? I think I'm more, more so remember walking out on Monday. So when we came back for the fifth play of Hall. I told myself,

I'm like, this is Inbee Park, she's not gonna mess up, so I better step up and do something good. That was kind of like, I feel like if it was a less experienced player, maybe I would have kind of hung back a little bit more and been like, oh, you know, I'll wait for her to make a mistake, kind of attitude. But now I was like, no, this is imbi. She's never making a mistake. So that it almost freed me up in that aspect, which is it seems weird to say. But that's how I felt, or that's what I told myself at least. No, that's interesting. What did you know all the perks that came with being a major champion at that time? I mean, you know what you're playing for.

You know how much a winning a major would mean to you, but is there anything that maybe you didn't fully realize at the time or some benefits you've received as being a major champion? You knew it was a five year exemption. I knew it was five years. I did. So obviously we haven't covered it here, but my husband, Daniel,

Caddy's for me. He was on my bag that week, and I think one of the, I can't remember how soon it was after I won, but it was pretty quickly. He was kind of counting. He's like five-year exemption, five-year exemption in tall majors. He's like, we're playing pedal beach in 2023. Because said the women's USO for the finally going to Pebble Beach in 23. So that will like we both started laughing. We're like, yes, we're in. We know it. That's awesome.

I got a lot of questions about your husband being on your bag. You know, we could, but we'll get to those, I think at a certain point here. But I want to know more about the A&A inspiration and what makes it special, what makes it a major. I've learned a little bit about the history from it. But wonder, you know, kind of what, what, what, what it means to you before, let's, let's go to a time before you had wanted. I mean, we know what it means to you now. But, you know, what gets players really hyped up? Is it, you know, that it's a larger purse this week? Is it the five-year exemption?

What gets players really, really excited about tournaments in particular on the LPGA tour? Yeah, I think the A&A inspiration is unique on the LPGA tour because it has the history and the venue where it's been played on the same course for so long. You know, we don't have, we don't have a guest, the guys, you know, go back to the the masters every year and you remember watching it on TV every year. I mean, this is as close as we get to having that kind of tradition where we actually play the same venue year after year. So that's obviously in kind of the traditions that have come with that, which obviously the one that stands out

is the leap into poppies pond on 18. So that's what makes this one special because we don't really have that in any of our other events. And then it's obviously, everyone is going to to say like, oh of course it's your favorite course on tour, but actually even before I had won. And you know that's the question that I always get in a pro-imm every week. What's your favorite course to play? And I always said Mission Hills was one of one of my favorite courses. And it's just an amazing condition this time of the year when we are in the desert.

It's overseeded, it's lush, rough, the greens are fantastic. And it's just really fit my eye well since the first time I played here. So people are like, yeah, sure, it's easy to say it's that one. But no, it's always been one of my favorites even before I won. No, I think that effectively answers the question. Is it, is it weird for, I don't know, weird is the right word, but for professional LPJ players, this, now the Augusta National

Women's Amateur that is being held held at Augusta, the weekend of the A&A, the two years that it's been held, it's been the weekend of the A&A. Is it a little weird to you guys that this prestigious new amateur women's event is being held opposite a major for you guys? Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's kind of, I mean, it does feel like it's kind of rubs the wrong way a little bit,

where it's, I mean, okay, I understand it's the lead up to the masters, but like, yeah, it just feels wrong. Like they, of course, I guess that are finally doing something for women's golf, but did they really have to do it up against our first major of the year where usually we have the top amateurs being invited and playing in this field and now those amateurs have to make the decision if they want to play in a prestigious major or if they want to go and play at Augusta and that doesn't seem fair either. So yeah, it's, I mean, it is really cool that the event is there, but yes, it does feel a little wrong that it's on the weekend of our first major. I mean, even just for media coverage, say, it takes

takes away from both events. Yeah, I remember when it was announced, and I was like, wow, this is awesome. That's so cool. A women's amateur event at Augusta, everyone's going to want to watch this. And then I saw, I forget what LPGA player tweeted it like, when do we get to play Augusta? Yeah, exactly. It's just a gut punch. And I probably should have gotten to that conclusion on my own, but it really made me think.

And I've got some ideas to propose to you in relation to a question I'll have for you later about the women's game and some things that the men's game can help with. But yeah, I just it just kind of bothered me as I realized it was coming to a head again this this coming weekend that you know, one of your guys biggest weekends of the year. The spot like it's it's taken a little bit from you. But so tell I can't glance past Poppy's pond. That is the iconic, you know, thing about a&A inspiration. What did you know your husband was gonna do

like a full-on dive into Poppy's pond? Is that deep enough? Like, didn't somebody get really injured one of the years jumping into Poppy's pond? Did you know about that? Yeah, I so, yes, Stacey and Lewis mom broke her foot, I believe, jumping into into Poppins pond. So the answer is no, it's not very deep.

When you stand on, so the 18th green, so with the side where we jump in from, there are signs where it says no diving. But it's actually a funny story. So going back to me actually sleeping really well, going into the Monday playoff, apparently Daniel didn't sleep so well. He, I think he said he woke up at two or three in the morning and he didn't want to wake me up. So he went into the bathroom in our hotel room and just sat on the floor on his laptop

to like kill some time. And he started, he was Googling like jumps into Poppy's pond. And then he realized that no one had ever dove into Poppy's pond. And then as soon as he kind of realized that, he was like, oh my God, I can't be looking at this. I'm jingcing, jinging us and then like shut the laptop. So that's when the idea kind of came up in his mind.

And he said, as a kid, they used to go on vacations all the time to Florida. And he said he would always, as a kid, be diving into the pool and the pools might be shallow. So he learned how to shallow it out pretty quickly. So he's like, I had done this so many times as a kid. I didn't know what I was practicing for, but this is my moment. So I was like, yeah, this is your moment to shine because we obviously the playoff finished on the 10th hall on Monday morning. So then they drove us back to the 18th for

to do the leap into poppies pond. And in the golf cart, Daniel asked me, he's like, so what are we doing? I was like, I don't care, I'm just so excited, I'm just jumping, like I have no plan. And he's like, okay, I got a plan, I'm diving. I was like, okay, yeah, I'm not following you. So, yeah, when you actually watch it, you can see, so my parents were there that week too, which made it so much more special and they were already back up by the 18th green by the time we got there. They had taken their shoes off. I didn't even ask them if they were jumping in with me, but they stood there with, like, they have taken their shoes off. They were ready to jump.

So I grabbed on to Mom's hand and Dad's hand and we kind of ran together and then obviously we couldn't hold on to Daniel's hand because he needed a lot more speed than the height to be able to do his type. That's awesome. No, that is one of the highlights and the iconic moments from the A&A. But how did you meet your fiance or your husband now? I, it was your fiance at the time at the A&A. And you've since been married. But how did you guys meet?

Was he your caddy beforehand? Did I need to hear the kind of that story and how that worked out? Yeah. So Daniel is from England, but played college golf in the US as well. He played at South Eastern Luciana. And then after he graduated there, he didn't really know what to do. He didn't want to pursue professional golf.

And his parents were actually living in Orlando at the time. And they lived in a neighborhood with a lot of golfers. And he, Daniel got to know Terry Mandy, who Caddy's quite a lot for Ian Polter. And Terry's wife played on the LPJ tour at the time. Sam, or Joe, sorry, their twins, Joe, head, Joe Mandy now. She played on tour. And she asked Daniel if he could come out and caddy for her. So he started to caddy on the LPJ tour for her in 2009. And so that was a year before I came out on tour with, I had never met. And then at the end of

2009, when I was playing Q-school, as I mentioned before, I went to LPJ Q-school. I also went to European tour Q-school at the end of 2009 just to get my card, try to get my card in both places. So we actually met at the European tour Q-school over in Spain. And we met in the gym that week and it was a place called La Manga in Spain. And it has a really big football or soccer academy, as well. And I think one of the English Premier League teams were there practicing at the same time. So Daniel likes to tell the story now. He's like, oh, Pernilla probably thought

that I was a footballer. And that's why she hit on me, which wasn't never the case. But yeah, and then we got paired together in the last round of European Tour of Cue School. I got my card, Daniel is asking me that day, he's like, so do you have a caddy lined up for next year? Because he knew I've gotten my LPJ card as well.

And I said, no, no, yeah, I have a few like people in mind. I said, I'll kind of add you to the list. Let's stay in touch. I got recommended a different caddy. It was actually Anika who recommended me a different caddy. And you know, when Anika says something, you kind of listen. So I messaged Daniel and said, sorry, like I have decided to go in a different direction when it comes to Cadi. But we kept in touch and about six months later, we were kind of officially dating. So that was during my rookie year on tour and all my friends kept saying, oh, that's awesome that your boyfriend is a Cdy. Then he can work for you. And my immediate answer was, no way that's never gonna happen.

That's way too much time together. And yeah, now it's like 10 plus years later and we have worked together for eighth out of these 10 years. Oh, wow. That's what, because that doesn't seem to be common. I know that I'm probably don't even know the full list, but I know like Jane Parks has been caddies for area, Jatana Garn and then Madeline's boyfriend, Caddy's for Carolyn head wall.

I got there's, you know, there's not a lot of, correct me if I'm wrong, there's not a lot of couples in the direct, caddy player relationship. And I think everyone that's in a relationship can, can understand the reasons why that would necessarily not be the case. But how is, why is that worked so well for you guys? Yeah, it's for sure not for everyone. That's what I always says. And we have had a couple of breaks in these eight years,

not break as like relationship, just play your caddy break. And they just really comes down to, what are you going to talk about at the end of the day? You spend so much time together. But I think we both have kind of matured into that role where it's like, you know what? It is okay if it's silent on the golf course every now and then because like, we can't come up with something new to talk about. And that's fine. But we both just know that it works so well. And when it works well, and yes, it's tough when I'm not playing well. Like, oh, I say things to him that I would not say to another cat. He probably says things to me that he wouldn't say to another

player. But at the end of the day, when we leave the golf course, you leave that behind, and we're back to being wife and husband. and we're both good at letting go of that. We probably need sometimes like 30 minutes when you leave the course to not really talk to each other and then everything is fine. No, that's a great, great answer. So after winning the A&A, what did that do for you? Did that change your expectations as a player? Did you know, having some status locked up

for multiple years, change your process in any way? I'm kind of wondering what was kind of the follow up after the A&A? Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like it changed my process in any way. Like I've always tend to play a lot of tournaments because that's what I love doing. And it's not like I said, okay, I'm going to cut down on my schedule or anything like that, but expectations was the big thing. I just expectations on myself and I didn't play good for a

long time after. I followed it up with, I think I had a top 10, two weeks later, and then I didn't have a top 10 for probably a year and a half, even maybe even longer. So the expectations on myself was hard. And since I was a little girl, my dream, like if someone asked me, like, what's your dream scenario, I would say to win the major championship. I mean, that's like the scenario? I would say to win the major championship. I mean, that's like the biggest thing I could come up with. And then suddenly I take that off the list without like all these like things that I thought I was going to do on the way

to that major championship, which would have been like win the regular events first or whatever. And then yeah, across that off the list, then you kind of feel like empty in a way where I mean, like obviously I'm extremely happy and everything but as like when it comes to goals and processes it's like you know what like what's next yes of course I want to win one more major but it is like hard to really it was hard for me to wrap my head around how to, I shouldn't say not to feel as driven either because I felt really driven always, I am. But yeah, that was different.

And it was probably not really until the forced break in 2020 due to COVID that I finally landed in everything and got good perspective on things and been playing better since that break. No, that actually makes a lot of sense. I think it, you know, you probably thought, yeah, there was going to be a longer process to winning the major and you kind of bypassed a lot of things along the way.

And then you're kind of looking, wondering, looking at yourself in the mirror to saying, hey, I'm a major champion now. a lot of things along the way and then you're kind of looking wondering looking at yourself in the mirror saying hey I'm a major champion now like you know it doesn't mean you skip practice or anything like that But it changes like what your expectations probably are in terms of you know what realistic goals there are to set and No, I think that and I you're not the first player either to kind of lock up some status and and not play your best golf after that The whole time you're... No, wait, totally. Your whole career, you're battling for your status every year. It's something that really underrated thing that professionals have to do every single

year is fight for their playing lives. And I totally can understand that completely. I was reading an article, I think it just went up on golf channel today about how it said like, oh, I accepted every media request and all these things. And I was like, oh, man, now I feel bad for nailed it out for a podcast the week of the A and A. But I'm sure you get a lot of requests come in a week. I do.

But when you reached out, I'm such a big fan of you and you guys. So of course, I wanted to make time for you. So no, this one I for sure, I for sure made time for, but no, the, yeah, the hard thing was, you know, it's like when it came to setting goals. Okay, the, the only thing that sounded like I should be saying would be to win another major,

but it took me freaking nine years to win the first one. Like, so, and like, I should probably say, like, just win another tournament, but then it sounded like it kind of took a step back. So yeah, that was kind of what I was battling with there. No, that makes a lot of sense, that really does. So there's been a lot of discussion in golf lately, I think, about, you know, just equality and income equality and a lot of things, you know, coverage for the women's game,

media coverage, all these things. I'm curious and I think I'm wondering what you think are some things that the women's game needs, the men's game help on, right? And that may be a weird way of saying it, but I'm wondering if you feel like the men, you know, the PGA tour or European tour or anyone, maybe has a, not, I don't know,

for responsibilities the right word, but kind of like, you know, if you could put your hand up and say, guys, we'd love some help with this, this, anyone, maybe has a, not a, I don't know, for responsibilities the right word, but kind of like, you know, if you could put your hand up and say, guys, we'd love some help with this, this, this, and this, here's some ways you could help us. I got some ideas, but I'm wondering if you've ever thought of, of, you know, a way that the men's tours might be able to help the women's tours, at least a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, if I, like I could probably come up with, for sure, some better ideas, I've never put that if I, like, I could probably come up with for sure some better, better ideas. I have never put that much time into thinking about it, but I know I've said in the past, like, I would love for the guys just, you know, every now and then to just kind of speak up a little bit more on our behalf. You know, I just loved such a simple thing as last week when Michelle, we, West, I guess I should say now, yeah Yeah, made her debut back on the LPJ tour and I saw Justin Palmer did a social media post. I know they're good friends and you

know he said how excited he was to see that Michelle was back playing. I was like you have no idea how much that means for us on the LPJ tour to see that one of the guys tune in and you know say something like that. You know just little social media posts whenever the guys have kind of mentioned something about us, we need more of that. I mean that's that should be a pretty simple thing. Just for because their voices they they carry a lot of weight. So you know if they say that they're excited to tune in and that They say that they're excited to tune in, and that should hopefully make a lot of the general fans pay attention as well. And then obviously the other one that I know has been talked about a lot is trying to get

some kind of joint events, team events, mixed events, you know, something like that. And hopefully if something like that took place, a lot of good things could kind of trickle down from that as well. But I would love to hear what your ideas are. Well, mixed events was one of them and I was dreaming a little bigger than, then, then just, you know, having players do social media posts about it. That's extremely interesting. No, that really is. That would just be a good start. That's simple. That's extremely simple. You're exactly right. And I think that I just think golf can work. I know the LPGA tour and the PGA tour are separate entities,

but they have a relationship. The PGA tour does some negotiating on their behalf for television deals, and you know, through the relationship with NBC and Golf Channel, there's weaving in and out of PGA tour golf into LPGA tour golf, and there's a lot of overlap there that we forget who said it somewhat recently and I just hadn't really ever thought of it as simply as this, but a women's players championship at TPC sawgrass would be very, very, very interesting. Golf fans would love to watch TPC sawgrass for another week and I just think that would be such a cool.

It doesn't have to be a crossover. It can be different weeks, but you know, something along the lines of the, you know, the ANWA being right before the Masters, like, what if there was either the week before or a week after the players championship, like a women's players championship? That's, that's an idea that I haven't heard circulated a lot until somewhat recently. And I thought that would be a great one. Then the obvious one is a women's Masters at Augusta National. I mean, exactly.

I mean, that one we've all heard before, but yeah, I mean, if you're saying there's a women's players championships, sign me up. I'll be there, absolutely. I mean, we on the LPJ tour, we're used to working a lot harder than the guys on the PJ tour for everything, you know, for sponsorships, for just the the tiniest bit of TV window, whatever it is. And so if we can, you know, just get to tag along there for, for a little bit,

that that would mean a lot to us. I should have looked this up. Did you play the, the event in Australia that was the simultaneous men's and women event? Yeah. Yeah. What was that like? The big open? It was really cool. What was that like? The Vic Opus. Yes. It was really cool. I even played it, actually, I probably played it three or four times. So even before it was co-sanctioned with the LPJ tour, it was just co-sanctioned with the

latest European tour, but I still went down and played it. That's a lead up to the Australian Open. And it's a fun event. It's really cool. Even the practice rounds, we played Mix. I would go out to the International and maybe play with two guys. So in the final groups there on Sunday,

it's every other group is guys and girls. And it's a cool atmosphere. It's a, it works. You need two courses, probably, to do it. But I mean, the other one where we proved that was a cool concept was the US women's open in 2014 at Pinehurst. Yes.

I think they for sure did much better than what I thought was going to happen, because we went the second week. I was worried why are we going the second week is the course going to be beta and all those things. But same thing, like it takes a certain course, but the way PINERS was playing, I mean, we could barely see divots from the guys. It was fantastic. So, you know, we would end up, it was really good for, you know, our viewing numbers and people tuning in. So, I mean, something like that again would

really help us well. Yeah, I think I remember watching the Vic open and it was, I, we don't need to talk too much about golf television coverage, but I'm, it takes, it, it takes a lot of things working in your favor for the TV to be really interesting, right? You need, you know, some big names help, some close action at the top helps, right? And there's, you know, you have somebody win by four shots on just an okay golf course and an okay field. It's not that interesting,

but if you have double the tournament going on, a men's and women's tournament going on at the same time on the same course, it's a lot to keep track of, but I remember watching that just being like, this pacing and this entertainment is, you have double the chance of some excitement, right? You have two different storylines going on

at the same time. And I just found that, I know that I can understand quite a lot of the reasons why it doesn't happen more frequently, but at the same time, some experimenting in that regard, I think it could benefit both games. And that's just where I'm at with wondering if there's more chances for synergy and overlap here than are being taken advantage of currently.

Cause yeah, it just, that's kinda haunted. I don't know if haunting is the right word while you said about having just the tour pros tweet about it, like gosh, what an easy thing to just like help. I know, that's great though, that's great feedback. Yeah, I mean, like I said, that sounds so little but that still just means a lot. And I think, I don't know if you paid attention to the schedules this summer, but there is going to be

the same concept as the big open over in Northern Ireland this summer with the men's European tour and the LPJ and the LPJ co-section with the latest European tour. So that should be another cool week. Yeah, I'm excited to see that. Have you, it seems like, you know, you've been around the LPJ tour for longer than, you know, I've been in the podcast game. And I honestly don't have much of a memory of the LPJ tour before Mike won. I just, I didn't, I didn't do this as a job before then. And he's recently announced he's stepping down as commissioner.

But what, how would you describe watching the LPJ tour evolve during his tenure there? Because I feel like there has been a ton of things to celebrate, growth wise in the women's game, the race to the CME Globe, you know, the purse rises in the US women's open and a million other things and how many different countries the LPJ tour is being broadcast in and you know just overall purse increase during his tenure. But maybe I just I hit all the highlights, but how would you describe his time as LPJ commissioner? You pretty much did the summit all up, but no, it's funny, Mike and myself. We have kind of joked my whole career that we were rookies together in 2010, because that

was his first year on tour as well. So I have personally never been on tour under a different commissioner, but I've been with Mike from the day he started. And you know, when I came out as a rookie in 2010, I got my full card at QSchool, and I think I might have gotten into 12 tournaments. That just says a lot about our schedule at the time. It was very weak. I was lucky that I also had my full status on the European tour, because I could at least kind of fill out my schedule. But it was a lot of going back and forth,

but at least I got to play more than just 12 events. That's hard, coming out the first year on tour to keep any kind of momentum or make money for that matter. So I mean to see what we've grown from the very slim schedule that we had in 2010, to where we are now. I just love everything that Mike has done for the tour and something that we haven't talked about, but I, this is my third year now as a player director on the LPJ board and the main reason that I wanted to do that and be part of the board was to be closer to Mike to kind of pick his brain and see what it is that he's doing kind of behind the scenes to actually have done to be able to done what he's done over the last 10 years. Yeah, no, that's great. It seems like the LPGA,

the Pro Am scene is really, really fun from the every, every time I've got a chance to, you know, experience it, it seems like the women really embrace that process and honestly on the men's tour, it feels much more like a formality. But I'm wondering where that comes from. Does that come from the top down? I mean, I know it seems to me that the tour does such a great job or the players do such a great job of appreciating

where their sponsorship comes from and whatnot. But is that something that, you know, you've experienced experienced for your entire the entirety of your LPJ career? Yeah, it really is something that I think when I kind of mentioned before that I feel like the other women on the LPJ tour we know we have to work harder for for everything. I mean that's that's that's kind of what it comes down to, you know, a program day. We know how important that day is like we have been told since the day we come out on tour that that's the most important day of the week. I mean, without that day, we don't have a sponsor without a sponsor. We're not getting a check on Sunday. So, you know, we have kind of had that ingrained in us from the day we came out. And that's really come, like you said, from the top. You know, Mike, his big thing was kind of this, did this like role reversal when he came out,

where he was like, okay, who's paying the check this week and really getting us players to understand who's paying the check and why they are doing it. And how can we help them get what they want out of the week? And that really, you know, what they want out of the week? And that really, you know, that really comes down to, what can we help with really Monday through Wednesday? Because that, yes, Thursday through Sunday,

we focus on the tournament, but if we can help out with things Monday through Wednesday to make the sponsor happy, we will do that. Yep, no, it's that that has shined through every time I've had a chance to to be a part of one of those things. But a couple more things I want to cover than I've got to let you lose because it is a major championship week.

But we got to talk about the Olympics. What was your experience like in Rio? And I'm just wondering if if you see a difference in how Americans value the Olympics, then maybe Swedes do. I think that seems to be a trend, I, from people that are from outside of the United States that they don't understand how American golfers maybe skip either men's or women's eye would skip the Olympics. But just, that's a lot of questions in one.

But tell me about your experience in Rio. Yeah, Rio was, it was really cool. I, you know, once you stepped up on the golf course and played your 72-hole stroke play then, yes, that was really like any other golf tournament, which is a different topic because I would have maybe loved to see a different format or... But I mean, yes, that was still really cool, but it was just everything around it. I mean, staying in the Olympic Village, being able to go and watch other sports. I mean, that's, I had never been to an Olympic Games as a spectator.

And now I got to be there as an athlete and, you know, kind of walk inside the ropes, you know, at other events as well. So that was, that was fantastic. Just sitting in the kind of dining hall in the Olympic Village and seeing Simone Biles walk past. The next thing you know, you're saying well, walks past, like that's, I mean, that's once in a lifetime opportunity. Yeah.

So that was fantastic. I went to some track and field events. That was fun. Went and watched some other sports too. And in one way, that was fun, went and watched some other sports too. And in one way, like Rio, if it would have been maybe somewhere else, we could have moved around even more so, but as we all know, Rio is not the safest place. So, you know, it was hard to maybe move around completely freely and as much as you would have in other places.

So, but still I got to still experience it all and that's something, you know, to be able to always call myself an Olympian. That's something that's growing up. Obviously, I didn't think I would ever be able to unless I had stuck with skiing. then that would have been a big deal. But then, yeah, the second part there, I still think, yeah, the Olympics, I don't know, because Americans in general care so much about the Olympics. I mean, just watching the coverage of, you know, NBC who has the Olympic rights, I mean, they covered the Olympics so heavily. So you would think Americans are really invested, but I really think it just comes down to, I think I listened to one of your podcasts recently and someone was saying how, you know, they didn't grow up

watching themself as an Olympian as a golfer kind of. And that's what I think it comes down to. So I think now kids growing up and being able to see that, oh, as a golfer, you can get a gold medal. And that, for them, it would probably be even more special. And I think maybe other countries, smaller countries, probably feel that obligation to give back maybe to their countries and be like, you know, of course, I'm going to go and represent. So that, that younger generation at home can look up to me and I can hopefully bring home a medal to them I don't know something in that mindset. No, that makes a lot of sense Are we gonna get you out of here on this? I want to hear about playing in the men's New Zealand open and

Your guys were special relationship you have with New Zealand Yes, oh, that was that was for sure my 2020 highlight because little did I know that I would fly home from New Zealand and then the world kind of shut down. So yeah, so what happened there was I was going to Australia to play two events in, what's that, and beginning of February. And then I was gonna have two weeks off and then playing China.

So it didn't make a whole lot of sense to go to Australia, go back home to Florida, then go to China for a week. So me and my husband, we love New Zealand. We have traveled there quite a few times and we love it so much that that's where we actually got married in 2019. We got married on a mountain top in New Zealand and we figured let's go back to New Zealand for those two weeks off. So we mentioned that to, it was actually a guy, he had his, mostly on the PJ tour, but he had them to be out on an LPGA event in January, a few weeks before we were going to New Zealand. And we mentioned to him that, hey, we're going to New Zealand for these two weeks off, and he said, oh, that's when the New Zealand Open is on.

I know the guys running the New Zealand Open, do you think you would want to play? And I knew that it was a pro-amp format, similar to Pebble Beach over here. So when he said, do you think you would want to play? I assumed he meant as an amateur. So he read, but I didn't know that. I just assumed that. And then he reached out to, you know, the the tournament director and kind of said that I was going to New Zealand and it was just around our first wedding anniversary and they thought that it was a cool idea so they invited me to play and that's when I found out

that no, they wanted me to play in the field with the pros which meant me teaming it up with the guys of the backties. So which I kind of maybe wish I had a little bit more lead up to and get ready for, but I had the most fun week. And so, I had an amateur partner with me as well that week. And I don't know if you know anything about rugby or the all- blacks, but my amateur partner was an all black both in Barrett, one of their best rugby players in New Zealand.

So, I mean, we had a crowd out there watching us, I mean, just for, because of him, but also people who obviously wanted to watch me tear it off, but I had a little bit of a rough start. There was a couple of par fours at the early on that I couldn't reach into. But I came back and had a good second round. I didn't make the cut, but I beat the other pro that I played with in the second round, and I beat a few guys at least after two rounds. But it was just the most fun week. And I would love to go back to New Zealand sometime soon,

but with what's happening in the world, that's not going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately. Did I see pictures on your Instagram of you at Jack's Point in Queenstown? Yeah. Yeah, that place is awesome. Yeah, so we got married in Queenstowns. We've been there a few times. yeah, they have some fantastic golf courses there

But Jack's points just for the views it's probably the prettiest golf course that you can imagine What's the what's the is it Ferred burger the burger place in Queenstown have you done the hour long wait for that? And should probably be embarrassed to say that I never have, but the line is just too long. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. It's a it's a totally fine burger, but probably not worth the hour long wait. But we'll put it on. There's plenty of other

good food there. So exactly. Well, thanks so much for spending an almost an hour with us during a major championship week. We'll let you get back to your preparations and whatnot. Best of luck this week. And we'll have to do this again sometime. Absolutely thanks for having me and

I'd love to be back anything. All right cheers. Cheers. Get the right club. Be the right club today. Better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.