No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 42: Charles Howell III

Episode Date: June 14, 2016

Charles Howell III comes by to talk about the U.S. Open, his career, the USGA, technology, and of course some Tiger stories. I asked Charles about what he’s most proud of in his career, what... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 42: Charles Howell III appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. I'm Chris Solomon and joined today by, I believe, our fourth player, PGA Tour Player, we've had, on the podcast. Charles, how the third child is what's going on today, man? Charles what's going on today man? Well man absolutely nothing I appreciate you taking the time to have me on. I've been a long time follower and admire of your work and I'm excited to be on it.

Wow thank you for taking the time. But first of all are you on Twitter? I don't, I looked for your Twitter account and can't find it. Are you like a secret Twitter user or what is it? No I'm actually not on Twitter. And the reason for that is I would be the guy that would be laying in my bed at 10 o'clock at night arguing and fighting with people.

And it would probably just ruin my life. So for better reasons, I've decided to stay away from Twitter. But I've read your stuff, some friends of mine that are sort of screenshotting some of the stuff that you put out and sending it to me. That's how I first heard of No Lang Up. Now a bunch of guys on the PGA tour follow your stuff and everybody talks about it. It's really funny, but I can tell you're just enough of a golf sicko because you're really

smart at what you say. And if you're not really a golf guy, you may miss some of it. But being a true golf sicko, it's hilarious. Well, I do appreciate that, but I got admitted. I saw I've walking on the range last week of Memorial. Again, I've never interacted with you before, and you're not on Twitter. I've interacted with some guys on Twitter, and so I at least know that they follow but you were walking right towards me And you just had a serious look on your face. I thought man, did I say something bad about Charles has he?

Is he about to punch me right now? Well, first of all, you'd kick my ass So we could get that straight, but no man, I just I saw the t-shirt and I thought well It's gotta be and then I know this is a bit random Etc. I thought what the heck I'll introduce myself and just see if it is the legend himself and it was Well, it was it was awesome. That was a cool moment But so I do appreciate you doing that, but So I'm gonna start off with like I'm just gonna admit right off the bat. This is a bad question, okay?

So I know that you're not playing the US open this week Honestly, is that like the end of is that like not the worst thing in the world to be at home with your family for a week instead of going through what I'm seeing about Okamot right now You know, it's funny because I It that's a great ass actually a really good question. And, you know, from a player's point of view, like so for me, for instance, I'm not in the top 50 in the world ranking. And so, my best avenue of getting myself back into the majors and the world events would

be top 30 on the FedEx Cup. And so, I've played a ton of tournaments this year. I played in Memphis last week. I'm going to play Quicken Loans next week, and I'm going to play a ton to try to get myself back into that top 30, which gets me in these, you know, say bigger, better events, whatever you want to call them. Now, full disclosure, yes, when I look at the rough and the speed of the greens, and I remember from playing there there in oh seven it may not be the worst thing in the world to be home practicing for a week if i'm being really honest well so i mean it looks like if i'm looking through your career you tend to play and i don't have number i don't really closely track the number of events people play but it looks like you

you do play a lot of events so is that always been a conscious thing i know the fedex cups only been around since like i think oh seven or so so i. So has that always been a conscious thing? I know the FedEx cups only been around since, like, I think, O7 or so, so I know that's not always been what the criteria is, but I guess, are you, are you, it's something like you're just a guy that likes to play a lot and doesn't take a lot of weeks off? Well, it's true. And, you know, I obviously go all out like yourself.

I mean, you have a job, you work every day, and you don't, you know, take weeks and months off, and I mean golf is what I do, and I do love the game. There are times where I actually, I think I like playing the game more than competing. As a kid starting off playing golf, I started off to play in the NFL and love the game because I like golf. Happened to turn into a career and whatnot. So yeah, I'll I play a lot. You know, the other side of that is telling me how how lucky are we that we play golf on golf courses that are manicured perfectly.

They've looked forward to our event the whole year and you're playing for seven to ten million dollars now. I mean, it's we let mean, let's face it, the same football. We ain't get hurt, you know. It's, let's go play for money. And, you know, a lot of people retire to play golf. And we're actually already living that retirement if you're not our speaking. That, I mean, that's a fantastic perspective on it.

But I think also at the same time, people can, can, can underappreciate how much of a grind life on the PGA tour can be. Being in different hotels week to week and you know, do you travel I guess a lot with your family? How old are your kids? I know you have two kids, I don't know how old they are. They only have two. They're six and four, so they're actually going to start school in August. And up to this point they have traveled with me for quite a lot.

You know, in reality, starts in August. You know, that's when my wife and kids stay home. You know, that's when the golf will start to become a little more of a job. You know, scheduling things around kids activities. And I mean, obviously, I guess the model for that's Michelson, right? Yeah. Who's, you know, flying home for a daughter's graduation the week of the US open. But yeah, I mean, the reality of sort in August when the kids aren't traveling as much,

but they'll still come out for the summertime and it'll be just fine. So I mean, how much it sounds like one of the first things you mentioned about was your world ranking and how and it seems like you're pretty aware of where you are in the standings. Is that something that you really track on a week-to-week basis or are you basically of the opinion like, look, if I play well, I'm going to improve in the rankings. A little bit of both. The world ranking, if you actually look back on the creation of it, it was kind of designed and created as a way for I

ampeded track players and go seldom corporately. Then all of a sudden the governing body start picking it up as a conduit for golf tournaments and in the bigger events and now all of a sudden it's the major criteria for world events et cetera et cetera. So now it's become a big deal and I think more players track it and follow it closer than they want to admit because it is such a it is such a massive deal now. Do you overall would you say the rankings are fair or do you like the way it's structured? Not completely but I think it's getting better. I do understand that it is almost impossible to rank a player in America versus a player

in Japan, or let's say Europe that never ever played against one another. I get the difficulty of that. I do wish there was a little more consideration for the depth of fields in America on the PJ tour as opposed to the depths of field, maybe at other events. And when we see this happen all the time, a guy that you may say, wow, nobody has ever heard of this guy and he just won a tournament. I mean, that's how good players are nowadays. That everyone in the field can win.

And I did wish the World Ranking Committee would give a little more credits to that. I did not just the top handful of players in the tournament. Right, because I mean, frankly speaking, do you think, and this is an unrealistic option for you, both dollar-wise and family-wise, but do you think if you were playing on the European tour, as much as you play on the PGA tour

that your world ranking would be better? I do, yeah. Because on a relative scale, I think my results would have been higher. And I think most players would probably admit or agree to that. Now it's also though the players that really want to chase the world ranking and know exactly how it works, you'll see them pop up at random tournaments around the world. And listen, they're not dumb. That's just how the system is set up

and they're using that to their favor. Yeah, it's hard to blame for it. I think you kind of touched on what my problem is with it and that you could finish a shot back or maybe two shots back on the PGA Tour one week, and maybe you finished T4 because of that, and you're getting less world ranking points than a guy playing like a event in South Africa where the best player in the field is ranked 200th in the world.

So it doesn't, it does tend to, I think, overrate really high finishes on the European tour, which that's what's hard for me to balance in an understand is, like, I think wins should be rewarded, but at the same time, it's gotta be more about who you beat than the fact that you're winning, right? I couldn't agree more with you. And if you look at, you know, the Sagger in rankings and, you know, the Jeff Sagger in is done,

obviously he's a smart man, he's ranked other sports and whatnot. You compare his ranking to the World Golf rankings. There are some massive differences in there. And you're exactly right, where if a guy on the PJ tour finishes ninth, tenths, place, whatever, he has had a phenomenal week. Because if it most fields are 156 players, there's 150 guys that can win the tournament. And yes, I do think that part of it is under accounted for. And also to the way the Warranking Committee has set up, there's only so many votes that the PGA tour has, et cetera. So it's really harder to override and change that system.

OK, so what about that world ranking system, I guess, if you were a young player coming, let's say you're coming out of college right now, do you think it's harder or easier to get to the tour than it was when you came out? And what path would you take? We've seen guys like Brooks Keppka, Peter Uline, take the European tour route, guys like Speed have tried to earn their FedEx Cup points and money through sponsors exemptions.

I guess, what do you think of the current system how it sets up now and what do you think your strategy would be if you were coming out of school right now? Well, a couple of things. Number one, I was really disappointed to take got rid of Q-School. I thought there were way too many great stories. J.B. Holmes, Dustin Johnson, Ricky Fowler, you guys that played their way right through Q-School right on the PGA tour. I remember J.B. Holmes that at anyone Phoenix. What a cool thing that is. So right now, the tour is forcing you to play the web.com tour, even like a Bryce and D. Shambot, a guy that obviously they have really hyped up and it's massive and it's going

to make the writer cup team and all this. I mean, in theory, he could still play nice golf and have no place to play next year. So if I were a young player coming out, I would do the Brooks Cup Cup Peter Uline model of I would go to Europe first Partly because I think it is nice for an American to travel the world It's nice for an American to see that he'd hope the world doesn't end in our borders There's more out there and and obviously you living overseas you understand that and I would do that for a while Get my rule ranking up and then come over to America. Now you're seeing guys as a Rory McElroy,

for instance, as a global player, I think in time that'll wear him out, and he'll be tired from that, but I think for a while he can do it now, what a cool way to do it. Yeah, I think even Keppka has credited what I'm always wanting to criticize the current system, because I don't think that we should have a system in place

that encourages our young American stars to play overseas, when we already, but he's even credited that in his development, which I do understand that. But I don't think that that was what Finch him and the folks up at the top had in mind when they designed the system, but at the same time, he hadn't earned his card any other way. I don't think the new system really would have changed something like that, but transition a little bit, because I know it's US Open Week.

You played in several US Open, I I think nine if I'm counting right. What is your overall attitude towards the way the USGA sets up a golf course? Well, when I first started playing US Opens, I remember the death page black in 2002. If you missed a fairway, I mean, in by six inches you were just hacking it out sideways. And that's sort of what they were known for. Then all of a sudden they go to the graduated rough system, which then it led into Pine Hurst, which very little Vinny Ruff, and then we had Chambers Day last year, which I don't know and really knows what that was.

Right, and then now Oakmont, from everybody I've talked to, it's back to hay again. So, you know, I think Mike Davis, let's be honest he might Davis has a healthy ego, right? And, and, and might Davis wants to put his imprint on professional golf and he's running a major and I think sometimes it, it gets a little bit overboard to be fair. And, you know, you look back at the long putter debacle and, you know, all this, you know, the things that the USA have done, even the groove changes, how that impact and manufactures, but I'm going to spend all the money to reach all their equipment to make grooves for tour players. And then three nights down the road, nobody's even talking about it anymore.

So I think there's a bit of an aura and a bear about the USGA where they really like to leave their mark on things. And you know, when the long putter debate came out, you know, I thought that was a great time for the PGA tour to make its own set of rules. And I think the PGA tour now has the cloud and the credence to do that. I think the PGA tour is big enough to do that. And of course, I decided not to. But I think it was a good time where the tour could have said, you know what, we're going

to do our own rules, thank you guys. Do you think that the tour, whatever, could potentially by-fricate really for the first time on this distance issue that seems to be more and more prevalent year over year? Well, and I know you read the report where the USA came out to the driving decision. I mean, again, let's just, okay, so I play with these animals every week and I'm not short by any stretch, but Rory McElroy, and Dustin Johnson, and Jason Day, and Bubble Watson, these guys hit the ball so far, it's incredible. And I remember there was a, we were at the PJ at Whistling Strait last year, and bubble lots and these guys hit the ball so far, it's incredible.

And I remember there was a we were at the PJ at Whistling Straight slash year, number 11's of Part 5, and it was a little bit of right to left when minimal help. I had driver aid iron and thought I had just smoked this drive big bounce. I tried to tell a cast on two hours later, three hours later, and Jason Dase hit driver sand wedge on the green. And, you know, and the times I get paired with Dustin and Rory McElroy. It's just, I mean, how far these guys are hitting the ball? It's incredible. Now, they're a better athlete, for sure.

I mean, Dustin Johnson, I mean, he's built like an orangutan and you know Rory Maca Roy has made himself extremely fit, etc. but you know I am hearing some grumblings when I was up at Memorial speaking to Jack Nicholas. You know there's that old guard if you will is really after trying to slow the golf ball down or roll it back. Now, if that were to happen, it would be really interesting to see what direction the PGA tour took on that. Because a lot of players make a lot of endorsement money off endorsing golf balls that they claim are better than other manufacturers. Yeah, no, I think this kind of links into what I wanted to, this bridges the discussion between how technology has gotten maybe a little out of hand and how the USGA sets up golf courses in that.

I'm all for a good test for players. I think even the players support a course that separates the true talent. It's got to be a tough line for you guys to walk in that. I can just hear the hesitation in your voice when I ask the question. You've got to be careful about what you say because a few bad words about a golf course and you can sound like a spoiled golfer, you know what I mean? And that's what some people just, before people even start complaining about the setup, are criticizing any player that whatever complained about a golf course setup. But I think overall what the technology has gotten to this point

where guys can hit it so unbelievably far that they have to do these certain weird things to golf courses that kind of take away the test part and add this luck element that isn't really fair. So, and Mike, I give Mike Davis credit, he does does introduce and I don't know what it's like this year this year at Oakmont But at least graduated rough and that if you're a foot off the fairway, you're not hacking back out into it I do like that, but at the same time, I mean seeing some of these greens and having that be the defense of the course and It just can it can go from being a fair test to getting really silly, really quickly. If you're not in complete control of the conditions, it can get away from you very quickly.

I think if you were to change the way that they were setting up a course, and you can make it as custom for your game as you'd like, what do you think you would like to see the USGA do that would make a better championship? Well, I think first off, the graduated rough that you alluded to is a phenomenal idea. Listen, there's no way to protect if a guy drives the ball outside the rope line where the fans have trampled. That's just golf and that's just going to happen. But the graduated rough is a wonderful idea.

If a guy drives a ball and it hits the fair away but it's overturning and it still bounces out of the fair away, he shouldn't be massively penalized for that. So graduated rough, I love. You know another thing too, this getting a little bit on the crazy side is the speed of the greens. Some of this stuff came out recently,

but it referred back to in my police, it was 1977, when the step meter was first kind of introduced. The green speeds, I think, at Augusta, the national that year were 8.1. I think the US opened that year was a 7.7 maybe. And you read this in and then massive disparity. Now where greens are rolling, you know, 12, 13, 14, and then 15, and then on top of that,

you've got these whole locations that are three paces off the edge, and they're right over a crown. And that's the bit where it's really hard for the viewer on TV to appreciate. That you start getting these really goofy hole locations on super fast greens and you're playing away from the flag with a wedge. And you're doing that because if you short side yourself, at all, it's an automatic bogey, maybe double. So it forces a certain style of play where you really can't quite be super aggressive and try to separate you get

any type of separation amongst the field. Yeah, no, I think a good test doesn't necessarily have to be really hard, you know, I think. Correct. I think, and again, this is unfair comparison because not every course can be Augusta, but Augusta is a great test. Like, if you're off your game, you're gonna shoot well over par and you're gonna be done. But you're on, there's enough birdie holes out there that you can post 15 under,

18 under like speed did last year and win the tournament. So that's an impossible balance to ask the USGA to find rotating courses on the annual basis. But I just get nervous with the, they're having them having to feel like they need a defend par When scores go low with the British open no one says the thing and Never yeah, it's not it's not a bad thing. I mean I it's not I don't know I think that par in general gets way overrated. I mean there's a 290 yard par three this week If they call it a par four no one would talk about it would be a great hole in par four

They would say it's the greatest hole Yeah exactly But as as a par three though though it's now supposedly the worst hole on the golf course. And it's the exact same hole. Either way, it's the same hole. Right. And listen, and I don't mean to, you know, obviously put the USA on a cross or anything, but it's just funny how like the whole week we're going to talk about the golf course. Exactly. And there's a certain part of me that thinks that Mike Davis just loves that. I can see that.

Yeah, I've always said the golf course is the setting. It shouldn't be the story, it's the setting, right? I mean, and when we, I guess, apparently the British open again, it's like, we talk about the course for a while, who it fits, and then it's about the action, it's about who wins and what not. It's about the golf. Yeah, exactly. So how much when you're not playing a tournament, how much do you tune into the action on TV?

Oh, I watch a lot of it. Yeah, I'm a sicko. Yeah, the golf channel. Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm bad. And one day that it'll be rehab. And my my professional career has me headed for four rubber walls and I get that. I hope that Merck and Pfizer are still around as well.

But yeah, I watch it. I'm a sick go. But you know, but I'll even stop and watch guys hit balls on the range. I mean, if Roy McRoy is hitting range balls, I'll watch that guy hit balls. It's awesome. I mean, let's be honest and I mean even well you know a guy like a Justin Thomas I mean he's he's not big at all and you watch that guy hit a driver do you think holy cow that's how you supposed to hit a driver and I mean the links these guys are hitting it it's it's impressive. I think you I have I think you answered my not this question but the next one with what you just said,

but I'm just curious in that you're 36 now, is that right? That's correct, 37 next week is coming fast. Happy early birthday, but you're 20 second all time in career earnings, and what I'm looking at on your career pages, you played one event in your career on the web.com tours, is that right? Yes, correct. So you have had this longevity of all, over a decade.

What do you owe that to? It sounds like you're a golf sicko and a nut that is practicing his ass off all the time and very dedicated to the game. But what, not a lot of guys really enjoy that consistency year over year that you've had. What do you owe it to? Well, I've always had good help. I've always told I've had more golf teachers and girlfriends so that's it. That can be a good thing or a bad thing but I've always tried to find the

best and the smartest people to help me and I've always been one of those guys like Deedless and I can't figure all this out on my own. I need help. And so I would have credit to a lot of good instructors over the years. I would credit to, fortunately, not going with never being injured. And you know, in other than that, though, I just love it. You know, when I'm home, I play and practice a lot. You know, when I'm at tournaments, I still want to be there.

I still enjoy it. You know, that may change one day. You know, certain guys like, man, I've had enough. I'm at tournaments, I still want to be there. I still enjoy it. That may change one day. You know, certain guys like, man, I've had enough. I'm tired of it. And I get that. But I still enjoy it. I still like being there. For whatever way I've found the reason to be excited

for every season. But I think the other one is, I've been lucky. I've never been hurt. And I mean, you see a lot of guys, when they get hurt, and they meet you looking tiger, which've never been hurt. And I mean, you see a lot of guys when they get hurt, and they mean you've looked in tiger, which is an extreme case. It's really, really, really hard to come back from that. Yeah, and I think what I wanted to follow up with,

and you're not close to this, you're 13 years away starting next week, but I always wanted to ask them one, because I don't think we've really gotten to this, maybe VJs in this category, Fureka will be in the soon feel soon but uh... guys that have made a lot of money on on the pj tour that have been a part of this big boom of money

uh... what is your what do you think your motivation levels going to be to play into your fifties and sixties on the champions tour that's a hell of a question and honestly i don't know we're talking about this the other day, you know, with the advent of the FedEx Cup, now you're asking guys to play a lot of tournaments. I'll tell you that, the majors, world events. You know, a guy like a Rory McRoy,

he's gonna have a lot of mileage on his body. And he probably already has more money than he'll ever spend, right? So it's gonna be really interesting to see if golf goes the direction of NBA and NFL when guys when they're 40, they're kind of done, you know? It's going to be interesting to watch that because you're right because this is the first real generation that's come through that has enough money where they don't need to keep play it.

And to watch that with all these good, younger players. It'll be interesting to see. It's also hard to comment whether this is entirely true, but seemingly players nowadays are more injured than players 20, 30, 40 years ago. I don't know why that is. Even a Tiger Woods is many days and that we spent together and as many days and months and years I saw that guy in the gym. I don't think he was in there trying to get hurt. The guy was in there trying to stay fit. So we also have a generation of where guys are kind of banged up see when a Jason Day of Roy McAroy dust in turn 40, 45 and see what they're doing.

Yeah. Yeah, I think, I've you ever heard of, I don't know if you've ever read the piece that a guy on our site, Big Randy wrote. We called the Tiger Tax and by the way, I went as long as possible without mentioning the name Tiger Woods because I know you probably get that a lot. And you brought him up first for the record. Yeah, no, no, no, fire away. I've got a piece of good fun. tiger was because I know you probably get a lot and you brought him up first for the records. So we invented this thing called the tiger tax and he did an analysis of exactly how much money tiger has put in the pockets of PGA tour players. And his conservative estimate was somewhere in the in the rain and he did a pretty good economical study. I definitely can't critique it, but his estimate was $1.2 billion that he has put in other players' pockets. His goal was to be to make a part two of that and he was going to be

sending invoices to particular players. Like, this is what you owe Tiger. So if we if he was going to send you an invoice, how much would you say you owe to Tiger Woods? Shoot, probably $15 million. Oh my God. If that's the case then he's being very conservative with his 1.2 billion estimate on pretty. No, he is. Because look, I mean, I turned pro at 2000 and that was right when the Tiger Boom was really going. You look at what the guy's done for the game of golf. He made it cool. I mean when I grew up playing golf, I mean I'm a golf nerd.

I mean I couldn't play any other sport. I mean I can hardly walk in Chugan. So golf was it for me. And Tiger came along and Tiger made that made it cool and got people watching on television and then we signed a big TV deal and uh... i mean ten pension came along with one heck of a time for the p-d-2 r i can tell you that

is uh... so i i know that there was a story about you were on the president's cup team of two thousand three and i think you told the story to Alan shipnick with golf.com about was that before after the president's cup that the winner went swimming with the shark? So that was I qualified for the president's cup team and and that the president's cup then was in November so we had a couple weeks off and Tiger and Ealing asked my wife and I hate you want to fly down with us to South Africa on his plane?

Mind you, a few days early and we'll go sight sea and do some other stuff. I want to have a lot of luck too. You know how much time that could spend around that guy? Yeah, so we fly down there and Tiger says, hey, listen, there's a thing you might have seen in a National Geographic. It's called Seal Island, just off the coast there, South Africa. And we're going to go out and we're going to try to show them up the water and we're going to go to a great white shark dive in. I picked a little wee egg, I'll go in the boat with you, but you're more than happy to,

because he's obviously big into diving and in me, he obviously never hit that for anyone. And so we're going out there and now a couple other tidbits of it. Tiger is the most ADD human being on the planet. Okay, number one. Number two is he doesn't sleep at all. So the guy cannot stay still and he is so impatient. Well we're on this boat and it smells horrendous off this sea of island and you don't have to use your imagination water, but it's awful. And so we're sitting there, and we have literally tummed this water for a good seven, eight hours, and we have thrown everything in the water you can throw in from all parts of fish, blood, guts, everything.

We've driven around in circles, and then we've also drugged around these like big, black, rug, essentially behind the boat so the sharks think it's a seal so that he come up and go and try to attack them. All we can do to get a great white shark around, we haven't seen one. Now you know they're down there. So as the day is progressing on tigers beyond board and he's already put on his wetsuit.

So he's already in a full on black wetsuit head to toe, including the thing on his head and everything. Well, we're about 150 yards from the seal island at this time and there's a thousand seals on the thing. Well, we're kind of sort of the front of the boat. Also, we hear this splat. Oh, God. It's what's hell was that? Was that a shark? We go back there and it's tiger and he's just going straight, ass in the water. Well the boat captain goes nuts and he's screaming to get in the boat, getting the boat, getting the boat. Now you imagine tigers made a splash and he looks like a seal on top of the water.

And so now he's swimming towards the island and he hollering city wants to go over there and see if he can touch a seal. Well they start going nuts, these seals do. And they're making all kinds of noises and jumping in this. And I mean, Tiger probably swam a good 75 yards towards that island before he decided to turn around and come back to the boat. And I go to think it was this is it. I'm a wife Tiger was get tore up by a great white shark here. And I'm going to tell my kids about this. And this is the moment when my golf career Ended right here like the best thing we got going for is about to get eaten by shark and there is nothing I can do about it

I mean this guy and you know I told Alan the story basically did to To tell people how fearless the guy really is I mean the guy has no fear and really is. I mean the guy has no fear and you know and that that translated to the golf course that nothing ever bothered the guy no situation no moment no shot he had to pull off and clearly with this I mean the thought of a great white card eating him or a seal whatever it didn't even bother him straight the water. That was the point of the story but yes I did witness that and it was it was incredible. So do you uh you played with tiger a lot back when he was in the in the wind of mere days is that right? You play it artwork? Do you play it artwork? Is that right?

I did. I played live it artwork. Yes. Okay. Do you work out with him too? You know we did some warnings. You know back back then um you guys i mentioned earlier it's higher couldn't sleep. I mean he'd work out at four o'clock in the morning five in the morning I mean if he was ever in there at a normal hour yes but extremely fit guy obviously so I mean he was sort of the godfather of golf fitness and but we spent most of our time practicing together in playing that was be a my most fun golf days of my career. Yeah, and I guess that you could, did that how you guys became friends was just through living in the same community. That's correct. They're living there and me probably aggravating

him more than he cared to be, but I was kind of learned as much from that guy as I could. Yeah. That's good, that's good for a dad. Um, back that 2003 president's cup team. back that 2003 president's cup team. I, so I'm a huge, personally just as a golf fan, huge rider cup fan. Presidents cup, since I've been a lot, I mean, it's only been around since I've been alive, but it's not been the closest competition. I mean, it's not the true rivalry. When you, in that 2003 that ended up in a tie, which I love to play off format, it may have changed since then, but it's Ernie L's first Tiger Woods for the title.

I hate questions like, what were the emotions like out there? But what was the tension like at that moment? I mean, is there... Basically, you're out of control in that situation you're you're you're because you're just relying on tiger but was just absolute faith that they was gonna make that put on eighteen and like or i forget what holy made that that time put on but like that was there any doubt you were you were not gonna lose that tournament either there was not one shred of doubt i think in our mind

or in every other fan of the international teams mind yeah that that was the day when Tiger was Tiger. And not only did you expect it, but it's almost like the fans and all the golf, whatever they will this stuff to happen. And it did happen. And man, the puts that him and Ernie, obviously, all the Ernie's credit made, were incredible. And you know, the amount of pressure, the amount of everything and I remember we we got done and they called it a tie and it was

dark and they had all these vans down there getting us into and tiger happened to hop into the van that that my wife and I were sitting in already and he got in there and he just looked absolutely drained and worn out and he just sat there and of all the time I spent around him I've never seen in that way and he just looked absolutely drained and worn out. And he just sat there. And of all the time I spent around him I'd never seen him that way. And he just looked over at me because, my God, I need to drink it.

So you can even tell that moment got him. There weren't many that did, but that one got him. Just the whole way it ended with a tie and all the crowds. And obviously we were in South Africa and they were so pro-Ernie Ls and yeah I think even that moment as well as both of them played and were it even got him a little bit. You played on that team in the 2007 team is that is it is it just how

everyone says are the nerves just completely different when you're playing in a team event? It is because you're playing for someone else too. Yeah. Because when you go to singles matches, it goes away a little bit. Because you know, it's just yourself versus that guy. And I can take the credit or the blame. But man, when it's the team days, it's brutal. Especially alternate shot. I mean, I'm telling you, it's just you love those days, but you hate them too. Because you just know it's a full day of it. Everybody feels it But because you're playing for someone else and don't want to let them down is brutal and you played with you Prepared with Tiger both for four sons and four ball in that 2003 one weren't you 2003 and 2007 yes and

Tiger said you know listen we're gonna go down here to South Africa I'll take you under my wing. You just play with me every day. But you're gonna want to, I don't want to. But no, that's okay, you're fine. But I'm good. But it was awesome. I mean, watching the guy under pressure and the shots he hit. And I mean, it was like a big brother to me.

And it was much as he would try to calm me down. Hey, it's no big deal, just a golf shot. I'm like, yeah, no big deal at all sure I mean, you know says a guy's already one eight majors outside of big deal at all Yeah, I mean you were how old were you at the time 20? 22 is right in there 22 23. Oh, yeah, I mean it yeah, it got my attention. Well Is that I guess Have you ever been more nervous or one shot in your career?

I guess it stands out like what's the most nervous you've ever been standing over a ball? Was it in a team event like that or is it in a PGA tour event? It was first T-shot of the Masters in 2002 and that's basically because growing up in August Watching the Masters all those years wanting to play it. Yeah, that opening tee shot. I was so nervous I mean I had muscles or whatever they are shake on me. I didn't know could move It yeah, I Was a moment and yeah, I was most nervous and anxious excited and yeah, that that was the one for me by far and Did you you grew up in Augusta? Obviously and that's everyone's favorite favorite storyline come leading up to the Masters as well. You're going to be in the field at Augusta.

Did you get to play the course at all growing up as a kid? I did. Every year in May they have what they call as an employee day and some of the higher up employees can invite a guest. So I got to know a whole bunch of the caddies throughout the years because we played some public courses together in Augusta. So one of them would inevitably invite me every year to play with them. But it's a great day. You make a T-time and we always had the first T-time off, you know, 6.36, 40, whenever. And you just play all day.

And now you have to wait for the other T-times to get off. But man, once they're done, you can go all day. And now you have to wait for the other t times to get off. But man, once they're done, you can go all day. The absolute greatest day of the year is a kid for me. And then after that, when I was in college, I'd still come back home and play with some other members there. But yeah, the course is, it's great year round. I mean, I've been there three months is close in the summer. But man, when that place is open, it's awesome. I mean I've been there three months is close in the summer but man when that place is open it's awesome. I mean there's just not a better place to be to play golf. So when you, uh, who do you play with these days out of Iowa or do you practice mostly on your own or do you have, I don't I actually, to be honest I don't even know who all our members out there who all plays out there. Well we've had a bit of a changing of the guard you know Tiger left and then we've had JB Holmes

that lived in there and he left but um yeah I do a lot of practicing by myself. When I go play, um, I'll play with Lee Jansen a bit, um, you know, see Arjun out walls in there, uh, Nico Herne, uh, play a bit of golf with him. Um, you know, we've had, we actually have a good group of, uh, of just regular members that are good players I play with. But, yeah, I'll go out there and play with anybody out over here How does that I guess I'm guessing that the members there? I just used to having pros around but do you what is that I guess do you I? Wondering what that's like to have a

If you're a member to have pros around do people ever bother you come up and introduce themselves or go out of their way to kind of Potentially annoy you a little bit or there's like a policy like leave the pros alone if they're practicing and whatnot. You know, you know, throughout the year because Tiger was there first, none of us can get their attention. Yeah, I mean, let's just say on that. That's true. They got so used to seeing the big cat there that we don't matter. But no, all the pros there are really cool, you know, with the members that come up and ask questions. No member could bug any pro there except Bubba. Bubba can get annoyed by a nap flying around it and that's just how it is and

how it was. Bubba just moved out. But yes, other than Bubba, we've never had an issue with any member ever bothering and professional. Do you ever play with Bubba out there? You know what, we did a little bit. I've known Bubba since I was seven years old, believe it or not. We played the future masters against each other

in Dothan Alabama. And I remember this kid come out there, and he was seven, eight years old. I mean, the guy could eat it two, 40 minutes. And we're like, what is this guy? Like he's, what is he? And then he's from Baghdad, Florida. His name's Bubba.

And I'm like, man, you know it. But yeah, I've known Bubba way too long from my sanity. So how often, I guess, do you, are are you it sounds like you said earlier you've had more golf coaches than you've had girlfriends like are you someone you consider that you you tweak your game a lot or you I guess who are you who do you work with these days I'm sorry I don't even know that. Well so okay so I mean I'm sort of one of the guys where I'm always trying to tweak it, but I understand appreciate how hard it is to change.

You know, I'm one of the guys where, if I see a member on the ranch getting a less than or somebody like I am, I was like, I know how hard it is to change a golf swing. So, I'm now working with a guy out of Southern California named Dana Dolquist. He kind of falls in the macrograding mold, you know, way of instruction and teaching, but I've had so many guys over the years help me, but that I do understand and appreciate how hard it is to change. But I've also started working with a short game instructor, a gentleman out of New York, John Graham, his name. It's really helped me on that. And I think he's also gotten me

excited to practice a short game because of You know how much of a faster impact that can make on your score then let's say another Schultz win less Okay, so are you Good transition question here. How analytical do you get with the some of the newer advanced stats like the strokes gained and the And all that and all that. You know, I've gotten more into it. I try to understand them first. You know, I want to understand how they do the stats and how they get them done.

And I do like it because it's a bit of a comparison of me against, you know, my, you know, competitors, right? And I can understand sort of, you know, how I'm stacking up against them. I think that's important. So in that regard of stuff, I feel like they can actually be helpful as opposed to just saying, how many fairways did you hit? I mean, Grease, you hit. I mean, how we all want to do better at that, right?

Yeah, so I mean, but do I guess do you put more value in those things than something such as driving percentage accuracy or greens and regulation or Puff absolutely no doubt. Okay, I mean because you get no doubt it. Yeah, for sure. Okay, and so how often are you checking the first of all how how accurate would you say the driving distance Stats are on the PGA tour? Is it like are you are you guys like measure up because each other like I've got you in the rankings now I I'll drive you or viewers that kind of like, well, we know it can kind of get screwed up from week to week or depending on what shots they measure.

Yeah, they're so bad. They're so bad. And it just amazing me kind of, we have shot link data on so many. But a lot of the guys, like I'll go play with Dustin. And you'll see it's driving this issue here, 298.1. You're like really was in a three-iron. I mean, you know, they don't, there's not necessarily they're hitting a driver, they might have missed it, might have landed in the rough. I mean,

he'll be able to hit a treat and kick backwards. And so, no, they're not accurate. I mean, you as a player know, you know, the five or six guys, they can move it and they will always be the same. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it just, I mean, it gets talked about every week and you see it on TV, you can see the yardages, but I think, and I was talking to you earlier, I don't get to go to golf terms too often, just being that the memorial for a week or just for that week and seeing Jason Deis draw at T-Shots where they're landing compared to David Langlund. It's just to see in person how much higher and further they hit it, it's like, man, you just see this incredible advance that people have.

I mean, I don't remember, you may have touched on this earlier, but would you say technology, the growth has helped you in relation to your peers or has hurt you in relation to your peers or neutral? Well, I think it's been neutral to help me, is what I would say. It certainly hadn't hurt. The guy is where you really see it. Jeff Ogleby, he's a really sharp guy, and Jeff and I are friends.

And he made a comment one time. He's like, you know, a lot of these younger players, they've never seen a ball like really curved. They've never seen a ball really hook or really slice. And they just go at it and just kill it. You know what I'm saying? And that makes a difference. Where then Jeff alluded to when you watch a Rory swing

or these guys, they just look so free. Like there's no hesitation. Like it's just full on. And it's fun to watch. Obviously they can hit it miles and those guys have obviously as good as they are, I found a way to hit it relatively straight. Yeah, I mean, so do you, it sounds like you would say you grew up in high school and whatnot playing a very different game than how it is now, right?

I mean, you've seen how much those ballonna balls can duck hook or slice, whereas these guys have never experienced that really. I never really thought of that in that, because I mean when I I played in the middle and high school, I remember the ball spinning way more. But either those guys that are five years younger than me, they would have never even had that. I never really thought of it from that perspective. Well, and you look at a guy like Justin Thomas and those guys how high they launched their

driver. Dude, if we had done that growing up, the ball would have been behind our head. And so, right, I mean, that's how the game is really evolving and changing. Yeah. More deep, I guess, philosophical, not really philosophical, but a deeper question. If you look back at your career, what's something you'd say you're most proud of? My longevity, I'd say the relative consistency of it would be the thing I'm most proud of. I haven't won the tournaments I thought I would win to be honest, I thought I would win more.

For whatever reason, when I've gotten up in the mix to win or to be there, I've tried too hard and I've just tried to overdo it a little bit as opposed to, no, I just keep doing what I'm doing to get there, you know. I think that's something this learned a little bit. It's like, okay, wait a minute, if I'm like good enough to get here, I don't have to overdo it anymore. But that's been, I think, a challenge of me being able to win more golf tournaments. What, I mean, obviously the answer is yes, but it's how much different is playing under that pressure to win, right?

Because you can feel the television cameras are on you, more people are around you, you lead a board watching, and you know what the stakes are. Is it something that you, I mean some guys have, I guess, learned to control it, learned to get used to it and whatnot, but is it something that you can ever really, I got, is it something you can learn and truly feel in your game that you can change or adjust to just, in some things like you said, you're just mentally, you're trying to harder, doing too much. Like, is that something you can, that you feel like you've improved on in your career at all

You know, I think I've gotten better at it. I would still love to you know crawling side the head of a tiger woods or a Whoever it was able to win as much as they did and see if they're able to be somewhat the same person You know, I've talked to me I've talked to Phil Nicholson and Bones about this. Bones like man, when Phil gets near the lead, Man is a general is going up and he just hits our hitting the ball miles. And he's like, we've got to adjust for that in this. I would love to know what the true grades of the game, how they felt in those situations. Yeah, it helps, I think, once you've got, I mean, Phil's got 40 now,

but once you've got 15 or 20 of those wins in your pocket, it's gotta be pretty, a lot easier to adjust to it, but I just, since you, I mean, you stared Phil down in the O7 Nissan and beat him in a playoffs, is that, did your reaction to those kind of situations change after that, or does it still those kind of situations change after that? Or does it still the same kind of nerves of that when you're in contention? You know, the nerves definitely part went away.

The excitement and the wanting to win might have even gone up a little bit. As opposed to saying, no, you know what, it just is what it is. We're going to play this golf hold the same we've played it all week, you know, etc, etc. And all the cliches, right? You know, one shot at a time or whatever you want to call it, but still, and just can we just try to find a way just to play golf these last four holes as we normally would, and let's just see what the heck happens. Yeah. Is there a few more questions I'll let you get out of here? I'm taking up a lot of your time, but this has been awesome. But is there a shot you've hit in your career that stands out the most? Like this is if you were to show someone one shot you

hit like this is my career highlight, what would that be? That's a good question. So that's a hell of a question actually. I would probably say, I would probably say professional golf, it would be in 2002 at Kingsville up in Virginia where I won my first PJ Tour event. The 18th hole is a brutal driving hole. I had a one shot lead at the time and I hit just a really, really good drive on that hole. And obviously it won me the tournament. That would be the one.

That would be the one I was the most proud of, because I was 21, 22 at the time. And it was my first win. And yeah, that would be the one I'd say, yeah, that one shot. OK. On the opposite side, if you had one mulligan to take in your career, what would it be?

You've never been asked these questions of surprise. No, not those two. One Mulligan to take. Let me think here. It would probably be something to do around the masters. Simply because that event has meant so much to me. I finished, I think my best finish here was like 11th or 12th one year. It will probably one of the holes coming down the stretch where I throw up all over myself not to finish top five. It found a way to limp in around 11th. So you'll probably one of those once for sure. Okay. If you, what's something that you know now at age 36 almost 37 that you

wish you knew when you came on tour at 21? Don't try so hard and and everything is gonna be okay. Your life's gonna be fine and I wish I didn't know that more and people can tell you it people can tell you to relax and people can tell you to go enjoy yourself. But I got truly think how do I know that then? I would have had a better career. And it's a little bit of the mentality I see in these good younger players. If I had a way about them where, if I played bad,

oh it's okay, it doesn't matter. I'll go play next week, I'll go get them next week. Or if they have a bad spell, two or three miscuts, it's all good, I'll go play. Where that stuff really bothered me. You know when I played poorly, you know, I got down on myself and probably miserable to be around. And if I could go back and do it all over again with a little more of a laid-back relaxed attitude, I would do it in a heartbeat. But I think would you say you wouldn't, if you're entering think, would you say, you wouldn't,

you're entering the tour at age 21, you wouldn't, would you start your career over if you had the option right now? Or would you say, look, I've had it pretty good. I'm pretty happy with it with my careers, but. That's a great question. Do you know my answer is, no, I would not start up. Yeah, I wouldn't think so.

Let me do, I look at these animals coming out and now playing and no No, I am in my career. I'm just happy right now I had a done over again with a little more life attitude. Yes, but buddy the time machine. I'm okay right now Yeah, I can imagine so More lighthearted question if I'm playing with you in a pro-am so I'm I'm just gonna assume you're gonna be nice to me either way So I'm just going to assume you're going to be nice to me either way. But what's the most annoying thing, like an amateur can do for five hours or in a group with you in a program? Like what's something that's just like, all right, if you're playing a program, just don't do this. And it's got to be something you've seen before I would think so.

Okay, but we've seen it all. Without a doubt, you're not in the USO. It's okay. You can pick the ball up, you don't have to take a drop. You don't have to put out for your 11. Power really is your partner and just relax. Just enjoy your day. Have fun.

Without a doubt, the best prime rooms I've had, they pulled beers or vodka out of their bag between the fifth and seventh holes. They were half annihilators biting into the day and we had a great time. Now, just last week, actually in Memphis, I looked at obvious, my 470th golf tournament on the PJ tour. And a guy in my group said, Charles, I know you've played a lot of programs and of all of them, man, what's the worst group you've ever had? And I looked at him and this group was terrible.

And we were taking so long to play. I said, buddy, let me tell you something. It's you. Hey, I mean, we've had, this is my 470th tournament, Big Fella, and I think it may be you guys. And he started dying laughing. And I said, listen, when you go home tonight, you can tell your wife's, honey, I'm the best. I mean, you were one in 470.

They can't take, ever take that away from you. But yeah, man, we've seen it all. These six hour programs, they only start off. They're so excited on the first hole. By number 12, they've had enough. They're tired. They're miserable. Because they don't walk every day.

You know, when they're home, they ride. And I get that. But yeah, we've had some good all right i'll get you out of here on this uh... i'll make i'm not put a feature fired make the answer to who who's your winner this week at oakmont uh... you know i was being on the body about this i think rory mackaroy and here's why i think driving there's going to be really really important

uh... we know he's strong as an ox if he does drive the ball in the rough. And his putting looks a little better. And if he puts it all, it's Roy McAroy. OK, interesting. Interesting. I picked DJ before the season started. My thought process in that was the greens are going to be so freaking hard there

that the putting's almost going to be neutralized and yeah he can get a lot of irons off these are some guys have to drive her and you can be getting more wedges into holes hold greens and he's been trending in the right direction I think he's as likely to miss the cut as he has to win it but he's my pick since before the season. No you're spot on on that you know and the thing that scares me about Jason Day is you know admittedly he doesn't drive the ball well with his three wood. And there's not going to be a lot of drivers at Oakmont.

And I don't know if he can get away with hitting that two iron all day, I think he can be up there. But if certain holes force him to hit three wood off the tee, I don't know how comfortable he's going to be around there. That's interesting. I mean, I think I was going to say my, if I was going with my, if I had a gun to my head's interesting. I mean, I think I was gonna say my, if I was going with my, if I had a gun to my head right now as a pick, I think I would still go with speed.

I just feel like he's gonna be doing his, this top five in majors, hovering around that lead for a ton. And I'm not, I think his, he kind of screwed up the curve by winning his like those two in a row last year. I think we're more likely to see more of the T4 He saw the British and this runner up at the PGA and this year runner up at Masters Like I think it's gonna be more common that he's gonna be close close calls than wins

But I just think he's gonna be right in the mix and more likely to be like a safer bet to be in the mix than DJ is but I don't know you these courses that you just don't you once a decade, it's really hard to really predict who's going to show out at the book. Well, it is, right? Because then you think, well, how about Louis Stayson? How about a Charles Swarpsilor? How about a Henry Stenson even, right? I mean, he can also do quiet this year, and it's...

But yeah, no, dude, I like it. I like the DJ pick, and we know this. It'll be entertaining to watch. Yeah, it's going to be fun. I'm really looking forward to it. The course looks absolutely stunning on TV. I hope the weather holds out and Fox has got a lot of coverage. USGA.com's got a lot of coverage. I'm really looking forward to it. I know I'm glad to hear that you're a golf nerd as well. It's gonna be gonna be too. I'll be right there when you watch it.

Sounds good. Charles, man, thank you for an hour of your time. I'm very much appreciate it. This was a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you for coming up to meet the memorial. I would have had no idea that you, uh, that you even knew who I was. So this was, uh, it's a great bonus. So much appreciated.

Well, she, you keep doing what you're doing. If I can ever help you do anything in the world for you, just please let me know and stay in touch. All right, man. Take care. Thanks a lot for your time. All right. Have a great day now. All right, man. Take care. Thanks a lot for your time. All right. You have a great day now. All right. Let's get the right club.

Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club. That's better than most. How about you? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most!