No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 477: Ryder Cup Medley

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

(Almost) every Ryder Cup story or perspective ever shared on our podcast, all in one place. 5+ years of accumulated content from the likes of Rory McIlroy, Jordan Spieth, Paul McGinley, Hunter Mahan, Paul Azinger, Bones, Webb Simpson, Sergio Garcia, Hal Sutton, Mark O'Meara, Curtis Strange, Lanny Wadkins, and more. Special thanks to our friends at BMW that have supported all of our Ryder Cup content. Next week can't get here soon enough! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast, Sully here. We have a special episode for you today. We pitched this idea to BMW. Maybe I think it was two years ago now with the delay of the Ryder Cup that we've gone

all around the world and met a lot of people that have had something to do with the writer cup for many many many years have interviewed a lot of them and have published a lot of those interviews and we said what if we just took everything we've ever you know talked to about from a player a Captain or anyone involved with the writer cup and put it into one mega episode to get people hyped for the writer cup Kind of thought it'd be like about an hour and a half, two hours. We had over five hours of content to sift through. I actually ended up deleting, you know, maybe two hours of it, you know, just, just kind of trimming stuff down. You know, we do a highlight medley show at the end of every year. This is going to be a little different than that. This is much more long-winded. This is much more, let me, these conversations breathe a little bit,

sometimes 15, 20, 25 minutes at a time. But basically just almost any Ryder Cup story you could imagine that's been told on our podcast over the years. Not gonna lie, pretty proud of this. This has been a lot of fun to put together and a lot of fun to talk to all these people over the years about my obviously my favorite golf event. Want to give a big shout out to BMW Global Partner of the Ryder Cup as well as a partner of ours for supporting all of our Ryder Cup content both throughout the year as well as the videos we've been posting recently on YouTube this podcast the 1991 deep dive podcast and then the cap and see deep dive we did with Paul McGinley who you will be hearing from extremely shortly because he is heavily featured in this and I could have honestly published all our plus of his interview but did trim trim out to you

know some of some of the parts of it and kept the best parts. But again, shout out to BMW. Hope everyone enjoys the podcast. Hopefully you get a long drive ahead of you. We'll help you pass the time, but here we go. First up is from episode 359 with Paul McGinley. I was super tempted to leave all one hour and two minutes worth of Ryder Cup stories that he told in there,

but I decided not to. My favorite Ryder Cup podcast we've ever done. I, for the first time, I've really got to understand what good captaincy looks like. It's going to play three stories back to back. I'm not going to come in in between him. He's going to talk about how he was managed in 2002, how that related to how he managed Graham McDowell in 2014, as well as a great story from 2004 from Bernard Longer. Here is Paul McGinley episode 359. Yeah, well, I knew story from 2004 from Bernard Longer. Here is Paul

McGinley episode 359. Yeah, well, I knew I wasn't playing in the morning. So I'm captain me really well. And you know, that's an important thing to kind of twitch on. So what he did myself, those four of us, myself, Lee Westwood, Philip Price, I think it was parafoki. The four of us had really lost form that year. You know, some players are playing better. Some, no, no, it was yes, for punter. Those four players and yes, some players are playing better. Some players, no, it was yes, but Parnock. Those four players and yes, who were still in America. So the three of us who were based in the UK

were brought up to the Berffy two weeks before by Sam. I live beside Sam here down in Sonnydale and we went up for a practice round 12 or 10 days maybe before the right of cup. The World Championship was on over in Ireland ironically. None of us had qualified to play in that. And he said, come on, let's get in. Let's all get together and get up and have a run around

in the better figure. And have a look at the course. That stage all the stands were open. We kind of had a nice four ball on the way around. We did a bit of food afterwards, and I was put a banter. And then on the way back, we got in, Sam had a driven BMW driver.

And we got in the back of the car, and he jumps in the back beside me, this big seven series BMW. And he's got a bottle of pink champagne and two glasses. He almost got the bottle of champagne. The drive back is about two hours from Birmingham in the infancy. He said, right, we're going to talk about your role this week. And he went through everything. And he basically showed so much confidence in me.

He told me the role, everybody was going to play, and many basically showed so much confidence in me. He told me to roll. Everybody was going to play and many matches every who was going to play and many matches. I was going to play who my partners would be just give me such a exude of confidence that, you know, you're part of the team. You're not kind of a guy I'm trying to manage here. He made me really real part of it and getting out of the car on the far side. You know, I really felt like I was going to be in a very important, he made me feel a very important part of his team, a very important member of his team, even though, you know,

on the car journey and the way you're up, I felt that I was the outsider and I was a problem that he had to manage. Wow. That sounds like leadership to me. I feel like on our side of the pond, it's a lot of the players dictating so much stuff and instant and almost not having feeling like they're kind of reporting to someone. I get the sense from you that you just had such respect for the captaincy and maybe

the Europeans have more respect for, you know, the process and the figurehead at the top of it than maybe the Americancy. I don't know if you can speak to that directly, but that just sounds like a very different system than maybe what Americans, I don't know if you can speak to that directly, but that just sounds like a very different system than maybe what we have. Well, I mean, I think it's different in America now, Chris, but certainly there's a huge important dynamic here that America we're missing that don't do now. And that was the fact that all of the right-of-couple captains in Europe were chosen by the peers, chosen by the players, right?

The players committee representative of the players were the guys who chose who the captain would be. Not, you know, a PGA board or, you know, somebody from the outside or, you know, some figure heads picking it. No, it was the actual players who put the captain in place. And that was a very important dynamic. I know post-task force now American have changed that

and the players, truth of task force are very much in control of that now. But, you know, I felt that was probably where a lot of that respect came from. So my philosophy of the captain was very much along the lines of Sam Tarns. It was about communication. It was about relationships. It was about managing all the relationships.

I mean, I didn't have 12 guys that I knew really, really well. I knew a lot of them well. And some were easy to manage. And some were more difficult. Victor Dubisson had made the team who all the French guys in tour were telling me, he was kicked off the French team when he was in amateur, kicked out of the federation, he were the wrong clothes, he wouldn't be told what to do,

he won't turn off for team meetings and all of those. And that was highlighted as a red flag to me. So I really made it my business, I put a lot of effort into managing him. And I did that by getting to know him as a person. Remember going out to Malaysia for a week where he was playing and spending a week with him, having dinner with him at night and trying to break down his barrier that he had as a human and then tried to get me into it. He's very going to trust worthy of people and you know, try to get him in there. I took him down to Monaco. We

had a bottle of wine on a friend of mine. He was a former one team, I knew he loved former one, got him into that environment, got him in a nice kind of, you know, kind of managed them and slowly brought him into the team and then grabbed, got Graham McDowell to play a part as a senior guy, he needed a senior guy, didn't have to talk to Joel Graham into playing that role. Graham wanted to play a bigger role. He wanted to be one of the stars of the team

and play in all five games. And I said, no, Graham, I mean, this is the plan. That stage, I was formulating the plan of who was going to play. Well, I've just like Sam did to me in the back of that B and W and the way down with a butler champagne, he had a plan. And I was going to have a plan. And, you know, I was starting to formulate the plan, plead out right a cup of who was going to play with who and and and then it was a question of when the

right a cup came was going to roll out that plan. It wasn't making it up as I went. It wasn't making it up two days before. This was going to be made up well in advance based on statistics based on the golf course. And that was going to be the plan. And then the communication of that plan to each individual player and not telling them like Sam did what everybody else is doing. So for example, you know, Rory wasn't aware of who else was doing what to him, except who he would be playing with and whose potential partners were and how many matches you would play. That's all he needed to know. Whereas

Victor the same, you know, we're going to be playing too much, you're going to be playing with Graham in the four seasons, the first two days, and then he's going to play the singles, you're going to be playing three matches. You know, and then with Graham, I had to a little bit of the yin and the yang. So trying to get Graham convinced to play this role of only playing three out of five matches was not a thing. You know, Graham, like all players, has got a niggle when he wanted to play five and he's, you know, coming off, you know,

not long after being a US Open Champion and a big star. And, you know, and a, and a, I mean, the absolute hero in 2010. And really wanted to play that, that big role, that lead role. And I had a little bit of a smaller role from the play, but a very important one in terms of looking after one of the rookies playing those two matches

in a difficult format that is for some. And I had to try and convince them that this was the right thing to do. So I did it by talking to them on a humane level and also on a common sense level. And I set them down based on what I knew with statistics and what I trawled out. And I said, look, the real key to unlocking this golf course

based on the stats that I've gathered over the last 10 years to the Johnny Walker round clinicals golf course, Graham, is the fact that the real key is unlocking the power fives. There's four power fives in this golf course as well as a drive rule, power four. Now, they're all big power fives. And what I really want to do is I want to have the bigger hitter driving on these holes, four out of those five holes or even number

screen, I really need, you're not one of the bigger hitters, I need to put you with a big hitter and I need to look after the guy who needs somebody senior and mature on the team and there's nobody better than you to play that role. And then I took out the yardage mark when I showed him, you know, your average drive down to second gram is, you know, he can't get home into. Where is it he drive? You're able to get home into. And then slowly went around the golf course that way.

When it comes to 14, he can drive the green gram because it's an even number. It'll be his driving hole. Whereas, you know, if you're driving on that hole, you're gonna have to lay it up. And so my, my forces partnerships were yin and yang. I had a big hit around a short hitter in each partnership in order to attack the power fives with the bigger hit or driving

on the, on the even numbers. So then if you, if you played all that role for him, I then gave him the cherry of I say, look, right, if you do this for me, I'll put you about number one in the singles in two weeks time. I'll put you out leading out the team at singles. You know, now I'm playing to his ego, I'm playing to, you know, a role that really wanted to play. And he's like, really, what will Rory I'm playing to, you know, a role that really wanted to play. And he's like, really, what will Rory say about that?

And I said, I've cleared it with Rory. Rory's good with all of this. We're going to put Rory out number three because putting out number one is the expectation on his shoulders. I know the last two European captains have put him out at number one, but that hasn't worked out too well. He's lost both of his games. You know, I personally wouldn't be putting out the best player at number one

because they've got nowhere to go at number one that expected to win as a huge amount of expectation to shoulders. And that was my, my, I set the gram and said, my good instinct is the best number one to the street fighters, the guys with the biggest heart. That's the guy you've had at number one gram and you're the guy with the biggest heart in this team. So, you know, it was all about managing that kind of, just an example of the communication and that I had with Graham. And so he went away. Then he played his two games with, with Victor. They won both of our games and Graham was terrific. And so he went away, then he played his two games with Victor. They won both of our games and Graham was terrific. And then he went out number one in the singles

and one in the singles. And the other point I made to him about playing the singles gram is look, Graham, if you play this role in the first two days of only playing one match, you're gonna have an advantage in the singles. And the advantage would be America are gonna do one or two things. They've had, sorry, if he always don't want to do things.

They'll add put out their best player number one or they'll put out the player who's playing the best that week. Either way Graham, they'll have played 72 holes in the first two days. You only have played 36. You're going to be fresh or going out against whoever you're playing against. Doesn't matter who it is. And that's ultimately what happened, you know, he went out against Jordan's speed, who was their best player. And Jordan tired. I mean Jordan got three up at Wednesday, a year early on Graham, but what faded then is Graham went out to win two and one. So all those conversations where I had two weeks in advance of the ride, a cop, Graham

knew well and advance of the ride, a cop exactly what role you were playing, and that's ultimately what happened. It was a different vibe. I mean, the captain brings the vibe, Chris. And you know, it was a different vibe, Bern was a lot more serious guy than you certainly wouldn't be playing music in the team room the way we were with Sam. But that was okay. We all had a huge amount of respect for Bernad Langar, a real statesman of the tour, a state of the statesman of the team, very dramatic in how he was going to captain.

We knew that. You know, a meeting at seven o'clock meant to meeting at seven, not one minute past seven. We all knew to be early, you know, he would wait even though we all be sitting down at five minutes at seven, you wouldn't come into the meeting room until it was seven o'clock. I remember with a big long table, like a big board room table, in this mario hotel, I think we stayed in and outside of Detroit. It was just a generic board room table. I remember looking around before when the meeting's gone, wow, this should be alive. We should have images on the wall here. This should be alive. We need to make, if I'm ever captain one day,

or if I'm going to have a team room that's alive, this can't be just another married board room that anybody uses. This should have images on the wall. It should have curtains. It should have carpet. And I started dream of all these things, which I ultimately put in place in 14.

So Bernard was very, he was a lot more hands-on than me as I evolved into B because I was formulating my ideas all the time. He was a lot more hands-on than me as I evolved into B because I was formulating my ideas all the time. He was a lot more hands-on. He was gut-involved in what the players were doing on the course, something I didn't do. In fact, I did the opposite. I stayed away from the players when I run the golf course.

I didn't see my role as Tellum Rory McElroy. It's a five iron runner in the six, so be careful with the wind here. You need to do this. Ian Paul, whatever the case may be, watch the six are. Be careful with the wind here, or you need to do this, or even pause the whatever the case may be. Watch the reading of this, put the guys in front, missed it by, you know, over reading, and whatever. So what Bernard did, what was very interesting was he stayed in the par threes,

and generally pinpointed a few the par threes. And there's not a really good story here. Myself and part of it played Tiger and Davis on the afternoon of the second day. We were two down after two, we got ourselves back to maybe all square. I think 13 in the Oakland Hills is the part, I'm pretty sure it's 13. It's about 140 yards or so. It's a two-tiered green, really narrow tier on top and a bunker behind the green.

It's all of a distance control. We were all square and maybe one up at that stage playing it. No, no, we definitely had the honor. So it was Pawdick's T-Shot. This was the ForSums. And crowd behind the T-Box in a stand. So Berne comes over in his very Germanic way and kind of gets it too. He was to get on his part of Quacklubi going to hit some Pawdick's facility, what is his caddysis, whatever, 143.

He said, he said there what clue? He's going to hit and part of says 143 nice nine iron. He said no, he said I want you to hit wedge and then part of says to the caddy what's the what's the carry for the top tier? The caddy says 135. He says burn it. I can't hit a wedge 135. I won't get it on the top tier. I burn it said I don't care. I want you to hit it into the slope and come back down to the bottom of the hill. He said but but that's going to leave a really tough body. He said yeah I want you to hit it into the hill and come back down to bottom of the hill. Make it look like you've hit a good shot. So, pardon me, the duty for pleasure did he was at that stage. I don't know if he did. Don't know later in his career. He stood over, he hit his 135 shot,

pitched it to the slope, ball came running down the hill and all the crowd went ooh behind and all of that and kind of, pardon me, finished all a lot of discourse but he kind of looked like he was disappointed and in fact he probably was, he was mad at Bernard even though he'd never admitted. And he picked up the tee and he kind of walked over to me and he looked at me with this really looked like I knew I was never going to do that. What's this guy doing? Next of all, Tiger stands up, it's his shot and he plays the most beautiful nine iron three quarter spin-off you know loads of spin up in the air this thing coming down really really soft it pitches two feet from the pin hard bounce into the back bunker and he looks at Davis he got crazy so I hit that beautifully so

Davis goes into the bunker and he's got no shot. And he plays an unbelievable shot out. Just misses the flag catches the tear, back down to where I was putting. I rolled a pot up to two feet, part of the knocks at end, we win the hole. The point being Bernad had stood on that tee. He saw the top tear with rock hard. He saw that nobody could keep it on the top tear. And he get part of the information he had on the bottom tear. And there's the value of a captain getting involved in what the players do.

Next up, Hunter Mayhan, episode 410, again, a great look into the difference in two captains that he played for, one that promoted great play, one that maybe did not, episode 410, Hunter Mayhan. I want to go to that 2008 Ryder Cup team. How you got onto that team, you don't see many captains picks going all five matches. And how A'singer went about, getting input from players into how they were put into pods. And we can talk some about how the teams and your later part of your career were formed as well.

Because that one seems to stick out to me and how that was done. So how would you compare it to later years, how teams were put together and how that team worked versus your first year in 2008. I remember getting talking to Paul a couple of times beforehand. I was just you know in and out in and out of the team for a while. And he gave me great advice. I remember because I talked to him and I said you know probably just want you I really I want to be on this theme more than anything. I mean I grew up watching the Ryder Cup. I love the passion and I I mean, I understand I got great

experience from the president's cup. I Can't tell you how much it would mean to me to be a part of the team and any told me you know I want you like I I believe in you and I and I want you to be a part of this and I want you to I don't want you to want it the right amount. I don't want you to want it too much and for pressure in yourself And I don't want you to want it the right amount. I don't want you to want it too much and for pressure on yourself. And I don't want you to just kind of hope you make it, but I want you to live in that great space of wanting it just the right amount

and be good to yourself and just keep doing what you're doing because you're on the right path. It took that gave me a lot of confidence that he just told me that, whether I made the team or not. You know, what he did was, he did so many amazing things, very subtly. You know, he gave a lot of ownership to the team,

you know, because the pod said, hey, we want Hunter Man on the team. And so that little group, he gave ownership to me, he said, hey, who do you guys want? And so that's how I made the team with, you know, our pod was a K fill and Justin and, you know, a lot was made of these personality tests, but he was just trying to get the right people together to play their very best. And the hardest part of it and what always seemed to a few guys made some captains made some comments

like, hey, he's like, I don't want, I want 12 guys to bond, not just a couple in a pod, you know, they were very like adamant about, we have to be a unit of 12 guys. It's like, we're not a unit of 12 guys. We're 12 individuals trying to figure it out this week. Let's get to know who we're going to play with on an intimate level and play for the next three, four days to understand maybe the nuances of each other and understand how each other is going to play each whole. There's nothing wrong with that. There's no point in trying to figure out me, a player trying to figure out 11 other guys and how they're going to play. We know each other, but we're not going to play with everybody.

And we shouldn't have the option to play with everybody. There's going to be a small group of us that need to know each other and play well. And that, you know, we had a rough run. And there was a going into that Ryder Cup. 24 years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was so much success of the Ryder Cup. There's so much. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there was so much success of the presence

cup. For some reason, the Ryder Cup had this, you know, a lot of the guys who have been on some tough team said, you know, some most pressure you're ever going to have. You're going to be under so much stress. It's like they were kind of creating a snowball, whether they knew it or not. And we just, it just, you know, we got there,

and it was just such a fun group. And Paul was so energetic, and he just was so excited for us. He was like, he was just so, like, he's like, guys, you are, he's like, I am just so proud of you, and I'm just so excited, and I cannot wait to get out there and play the crown, I was crown of the crown of pumped. This is just, you know, it was, it was just an amazing thing to be a part of and it just

kind of quite hasn't, you know, I think when the US is one, they've just been so talented. I mean, there's been, you know, I got to do a little bit of the BBC in Hazeltein and that team was just unbelievably talented. That was just top to bottom. The team was a joke how good they were, and they just kind of overwhelmed Europe. But that eight team was just so fun. And they were, I mean, it was just so fun to be a part of.

And it felt like we were, even though we were in pods, then we were a unit unit and we were so excited to go out there and play in front of those fans. And we just had so much fun. Yeah, the more you describe that, the more I'm just like, man, the atmosphere, it almost like is a tight, wound tight promoted atmosphere

other than that year, you look back. You know, like almost every, everyone talks about the pressure, you're never gonna feel so much pressure like the you are in your whole life, blah, blah, blah, all this and what you're saying about Paul, like you guys did look like you were having fun out there. And like what is more likely to promote good golf?

You know, going out having fun and being yourself or this expectation that you are going to be under the most pressure that you've ever been under in your whole life. Like just, I've never seen it more clearly than that. You describing that of like, why these really talented teams have struggled to come up with Ryder Cup wins. And what he did, too, I thought it was brilliant. It was like, he sort of laid everything out

before we got there. He's like, this is your pod. This is your group. This is how we're going to play the course. And we're going to, he's like, I want birdies. I want loud. I want energy. I want noise. So we're going to play the course and we're going to he's like I want birdies I want loud. I want energy. I want noise So we're going to make it a little bit easier. We're going to take the rough down He laid kind of everything out there for everybody. So when we got there on Monday

Everything was set in stone. We just had to go play. We just had to go figure out How we're going to play the golf course. We just had to go we didn't have to worry about anything Everything was already done like he had the matches all set up throughout the week. I was and then he would make little changes, right? Like, A.K. and I were supposed to play a Saturday afternoon, but A.K. had a tough Saturday morning. And so it feels like I'm good to go. I'm going to go play and Justin's like, Hunter's playing great. Just keep him out there. And so he everything was already set up. And sometimes you get to these events and it felt like we're figuring out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday

about who we're going to play with with Jim, Jim Fierrick. Now I was like, all right, I had to play with Jim all week, I had him replaying alternate shot, I had to hit his ball all week, it was like, okay, we ran out to the range and we're like, Jim, what do you use it was just kind of like, you know, that's, you know, that was a little frustrating and it's tough about that week, but I love Jim Fierrick and I couldn't wait to play with him, but I was just like, I wish I kind of played a little bit more with him than we to know that that was going to happen. And that's prepared for that. Right. And that's what Paul did. He just set everything

up to where he's like, you guys just go out and play and just enjoy the crap and about what you're going to experience. Because I want this to be so much fun for you. Because the fact is you made it. You made it on the team. The hard work's done. You work two years to get to this point, go have fun and enjoy it. And that's what we felt that all week every day.

Tell me you have a framed picture or something from your putt on 17 and the signals. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've got a different, there's a few pictures. Yeah, I've got one frame like that for sure. Golf celebrations never look cool. And I can confidently say that's one of the best golf

celebrations I think I've ever seen. Well, it's hilarious that how much emotion comes out in those events. Now, I felt like that kind of started it. You know, there was other times when you'd win. But it was, man, it was just so hyped up. And I was, you know, it was cool because I was at, I put the Junior Riders cup and during Brookline and we got to go on Thursday, Friday. They invited us out there. So it was cool to be a part of it as a young kid and see that. And I just, you know, Justin making that putt up the hill. We weren't there that day, but I

remember watching on TV and that celebration, people are running on the green and he's, it's just bonkers about what's going on and That's what the Ryder Cup is about those team events. It's just you get to just lay it all out there and just have fun One thing we love the joke about is you were you were sitting next to Phil at that press conference in the 2014 Ryder Cup win with in your face is just as priceless as Phil. Tom Watson is up there on the, on the, you know, the ledge as well, sitting with you guys and he basically just challenges the whole US process, right? And I'm wondering, you know, what, what, what you're thinking at that time as it's happening, but it seemed to be the sentiment of the team, you know, that he was representing. And wondering if, you know, Phil, you thought Phil needed to do that publicly or, you know,

it seemed like change came after that moment and I'm back and forth on whether that needed to be publicly done, but what are you sitting there thinking as Phil is doing that in the press conference? Yeah, I mean, I think Phil, I think those events are so personal to us because we're in it when we're playing or trying, but sometimes we just don't have control over certain things. And that's a little frustrating and it's frustrating for a guy like Phil who's been a part of every team since the early 90s, right? And he knows kind of what works and there's no in the world I respect more than Phil Mookes. I absolutely adore the guy. He's someone I look up to, and I call a great, great friend.

We've talked about many different things. And he's someone I take great advice from in all sorts of areas. And I deeply respect his opinion on all kinds of things. And I think he just came to a head. And he was like, you know, some changes need to be made. Every year we hear about Europe has like this process, right? And they've had this process for a long time about the captains being assistant captains.

Like they had a beautiful process about what they were doing and how they were doing things. And it was showing up because they were kicking our butt. And I just think he just sort of had enough. And I promise you, he talked to the PGM America numerous times. Phil would not have done that unless he thought it was a last resort. And he talked to them over and over again about creating some sort of process and being a part of it

and saying, hey, we kind of understand who we are and what we need and let's create a pathway for each captain to be a part of it beforehand because it is a daunting thing to be a captain of a rider cup like that or any team event. I mean, there was so much that goes into it to just be to do it one time and to get it right would be so hard.

And, you know, I mean, I think Phil just said, you know what, I got to do it. I got it and I know he told us, he told me, he's like, I'm gonna do it. And it could be uncomfortable, but sometimes uncomfortable is exactly what you need in a lot of different situations. And that's just what we needed to make a little bit

of a change. In no way did I don't think he meant any disrespect to Tom Watson because I think all of us deeply respect Tom for the kind of the person he is and the player he is and the guy, I mean, it wasn't, it was more about the process than it was really about the individual. Yeah, it's almost like it was directed at the PGA of America in a way of like,

Tom came in and did what Tom was gonna do, right? I mean, that's what he was brought in to do. So, it's not his fault in any way, but like, hey, looking at this from, you know, just in talking with even some people that are involved in the process of, you know, I'm like, hey, why did this decision get made in the answer is, well, he just, you know, he had the most experience.

And I just want to challenge that. I want to be like, man, I don't, is that, is that what is constitutes a great lead, a great leader or the right process or the person that's going to be the best in touch with these players and all these things that you know, for a long time, it was you had to be a major champion to be a captain of one of these teams. And I just, I don't even have to be a major champion to be a captain of one of these teams. And I just, I do even have to be a golf guy to be a captain of one of these teams. And I just, I, I find the US's process improved, but still I don't know if it's all the way there in terms of setting the team up to play their best possible golf, because it still seems like a very

ceremonial, you know, honor that's given to people to be captains of these teams, but if we're really trying to win them, are we following the process that leads to the most success? Yeah, and I think that's what Phil's message was at that time was, your has a plan, and they have a plan of attack. And that's what we were, it felt like, and what it really seemed like we were sort of lacking was they have a process in what they're doing. And you can't tell me that they're just better than us and they're beating us, but they feel so comfortable with what they're doing. And they, it's just, you can see in their play, they just have

no doubt about what they're doing when they get there like it's already done. And I think the hardest part for us as players was. We didn't know what still was going on who we were playing with. Going into like I said I didn't

know I was playing with Jim until Saturday afternoon and I was like. You know that's a frustrating thing for a player and changes need to be made and at some point someone's got to speak up and it's okay to be uncomfortable as that sound that's how things get done and fills them and fills the great thing with fill is he has so much respect with all the players and the PJ of America and the PJ tour that when he said something, it has weight. And we all supported him in that way. And he has the guts, you know, and we've seen it through time.

He has the guts to go out there and put himself out there. And I think we all really respected him for that because he wants to win and he wants to compete. We're going to hear. I made it like 20 minutes. So in 96, they used to have this tournament, the old Dunhill Cup, back in the 80s and 90s. It was just phenomenal event that they have in the fall at St. Anne. And I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing.

I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing. So in 96 they used to have this tournament the old Dunhill Cup back in the 80s and 90s. It was this phenomenal event that they have in the fall at St Andrews where you'd get three players from from from certain countries and you go over there and you'd play against other other teams if you were and you know whoever won two matches or what have you would advance and it was just great kind of knockout competition. And early in Phil's career in 96, he made the team. We went over to San Andrews with Stricker and Marco Merra and played these matches. It was just, it's one thing to be at St Andrews.

It's another thing to be there that time of year. It was kind of cold and fun. The US team was playing well. This was at a time when Stricker was a bit of an unknown quantity. Guys from other countries didn't know who he was. And he was just crushing people over there. And it was so much fun. It was just great week.

And Yistka, Yarmos Sandinum was playing for Sweden. And they were playing South Africa. And I believe the quarter finals. And Phil and I were watching it from his hotel room. We'd already won our match earlier that day and the US had advanced and we were going to play the winner of whoever won these matches and Yarmou Sandlin was playing in a playoff. I think he had tied Nick Price and they were playing it off on the first hole at St Andrews there to see who would win the match. And Yarmou made a putt and put the putter head up against his shoulder and kind of like

a shooting motion. And after he made this putt to beat Nick Price and shot at Nick Price, so to speak. And we were just sitting there, just dumbfounded as to what we were watching and a lot of locals, a lot of people in Scotland were very offended by this because it was either weeks or months removed from a school shooting in Scotland. That was just absolutely horrific and tragic and a number of people, kids lost their lives and it was a pretty tone deaf thing to do, to say the very least, not to mention the fact that he was doing it to Nick Price,

who I think at the time was maybe the number one rank player in the world. And if I'm not mistaken, also his caddy Squeaky, who passed away way too young was maybe in poor health at the time, so there was a lot going on with Nick. And it was just stunning to see this happening. And Phil said to me at the time. So there was a lot going on with Nick. And it was just stunning to see this happening and Phil said to me at the time, my gosh, if that guy ever did something like that to me,

I don't know what I do. So, as sure enough, the Swedish team advanced and of course we get them, US gets them the next day and the parents come out and it's Sandland versus Mikkelson. I'm like, oh boy, here we go. And we went out there and played the match and to the armistred, he was playing pretty well.

Our other two guys, O'Mehran Stricker, were going to win their matches. So the U.S. was going to advance, but on the 12th to 13th, he told other than San Andres the next day, he made a 5 or 6 footer for par to go, you know, into increases lead over Phil and did the same thing. He put his putter up to his shoulder and shot at Phil in this kind of shooting motion. And it was just like, you know, Phil wasn't having it and Phil let him know on the next day that he absolutely wasn't having it. And it was, it was in my ears as a caddy, you know, one of the more tense situations

that you get involved in out there. And it was like holy cow. And these guys were nose to nose at one point. And you know, Phil was not, you know, at that point a major winner or a guy that had been around a long time, but he was a very accomplished player. And Yarmou less so.

So it seemed disrespectful. And so when you fast forward, sorry, it's for taking so long, so it seemed disrespectful. And so when you fast forward, sorry, it's for taking so long, but you fast forward. So it's so amazing. So hard to, the 99 Ryder Cup, you know, all three years later, you know, Yarmo didn't get, he didn't play at all the first two days. There were two or three guys on that team, Coltart,

Yarmo and maybe Van Develle that didn't play the first two days. And our team is four points down. We're getting our butts kicked. It wasn't that our guys were playing poorly. It's just the European team was just amazing. And for me, back then, in 1999, there was this pre-it, internet, pre- you know, cell phones, all this stuff.

And when we left the golf course on Saturday night, none of us had any idea what the pairings were. And I just remember going home and saying a small prayer driving in my car back to the hotel, anybody but Sandel and sure enough, we got to the course the next day, you know, and there it was. You know, 12 guys on each team, this supposed random draw and Phil gets Yormo in singles, I'm thinking myself, oh my gosh.

So we get out there the next day, and we hadn't seen the entire week, the guy the entire week, because he hadn't played. And he comes striding to the tee and fills there, and it's tense. And I remember NBC was doing the golf, and they'd sent Mark Rolfing out there to cover this match because they knew there was a history

between these two guys. And one of the craziest things happened on the second green, they have the first hole. Went to the second hole was a really tough part three. Phil hit a six-indole about 30 feet. And Yarmou hit this six iron that never left the flag. And we heard this, you know, kind of gasp, if you will, from the American fans behind the green.

He literally almost told it, almost made a hole in one, the ball went about two or three feet behind the hole. And we got up to the green, and I'm cleaning Phil's ball, and I hand it back to him, Phil's going through the process of reading his putt. And Yarmou is just standing there.

He's done nothing with his golf ball. It's still three feet behind the hole. And it's definitely a putt that you want, you know, you're not going to give to him. It wasn't close enough. But what we didn't realize, and I came to find out later from Yarmou's caddies, that Yarmou had something like a special coin that he always marked his ball with. And somehow he had a hole in his pocket in between the first green and the second green. He'd lost his lucky coin or the coin that he used to mark his ball, and he had a hole in his pocket between the first green and the second green. He'd lost this lucky coin or the coin that he used to mark his ball.

And he had nothing else to mark his ball with. So he says to his cat, he give me a coin, the cat he's got nothing. So they're not gonna ask me, they're not gonna ask Phil. He's standing there behind this ball on the second green and he's got no coin to mark his ball with, nothing. And literally, literally, you hear this voice from the crowd. Some guys, some spectator that kind of picked out what

have been going on. A guy goes, Hey, Yo, Yarmul, you need a coin to mark your ball and Yarmul turns around and goes, as a matter of fact, I do. And all of a sudden coins come raining out of the crowd. And I swear to you, Chris, we were there. It was just this incredibly surreal moment where there were 20, 30, 40, 50 coins rolling across the green that spectators had thrown at him. So we're out there picking up coins, you know, Yarmou finally picks one up, Marx's ball misses the three footer and then topped it off the next tee and filled one on to to win the match. He topped it. He did. He hit a fairway wood off the next tee and kind of cold topped it. It in the heel and you know dribble it, you know, I don't know 100 yards down wherever

it went, but he was, it was just this crazy, crazy moment. He topped it off the tee. He filled one the hole and went on to win the match is like Paul Azinger from episode 141 talking about Sefi playing against him in the Ryder Cup. And yet, this won't be the last time we hear from Paul on this either. I remember losing that match. And then I got with chip back and we won. And then we played Fowldo losing in one match. And that was a revenge match for me.

I remember telling Chip on the first tee. I mean, there was like, Fowldo, Fowldo, flags are going. And they came up. And I remember saying to chip back, it was like, Fowl, the flags are going and they came up. And I remember saying the chip back, it was pretty loud, I said, Chipper, I don't know about you, but I'd take in this match personal. And he was, I love it, singer me too, singer.

And we made 11 birdies. They made nine birdies. Wow. And we beat them two and one. Then I was really confident. We went and, I got lucky. I got lucky.

It's so lucky to ride a Cup because I drew their superstars. I could have drawn a bunch of guys you never heard of, but I kept drawing, and it's just a blind draw. It's luck. I was gonna say you went up against Sevy and the singles. That wasn't pre-arranged at all. None of it is.

It's just a luck fest. Who do you get? And our strategy was to look for their best players in some respects because they were better than us and we knew it. But they get our hottest players out first or whatever. I was first match out because I was playing so well and I plucked Sevy, which is the greatest gift ever to get Sevy and then we battled right from the beginning. It's a famous match and yeah, I mean there's a lot of controversy on with that match and you know I'm vindicated by it because of anti-McFee and the referee of the match

just, you know, tell you what happened. For what did happen? Well, he accused me of taking a bad drop on 18 and I figured you'd probably get to that point. When I was like, Sammy, he told us where to drop it. I just kept that point to him and me in the hole and went backwards. Oh, okay.

But we had stuff going on the whole match. I called him the King of Gamesmanship, and he said, American teams 11 nice guys in Zinger. That was 91, right? Oh yeah, but still. The lead over from 89. A scuff ball incident from 89, is that me? Oh yeah.

No, that was from 91. No, that was 89. Yeah, and there's singles match. Well, see, I draw Sevy on Saturday night. And Curtis walks up to me and says, don't let him pull anything on you tomorrow. So my mindset shifts. So then we get to the first tee.

Curtis goes off last and I'm off first. So there's a big gap between those tee times and he comes walking up to me on the first tee. Yeah, you're feeling good. Don't let him pull anything on you today. So back then the golf balls were getting shredded by the square grooves. And we were both using square

groove wedges. We hit irons off the second tee, three irons, both of us wedged into the green. He hit it about 12 feet. I hit it about four feet and we get up there and he takes his ball and tosses it to his caddy Ian and says I take his ball out of the play. And I was like, Curtis popped in my head. You know, my ball was shredded. I had hair, I used to use the pink wedge back then and it really wrecked the golf ball. And you could, excuse me, you could pick my golf ball up by the paint thread that was hanging from it.

And so I can't take it out of play though. I could rub that paint thing off of there, but I can't take the ball out. So anyway, I just started pulling something right there. And so I looked at his cad thing off of there, but I can't take the ball out. So anyway, I just thought he's pulling something right there. And so I looked at his caddy, I asked, I said, I need to see that ball. And I looked at it and I walked over to Sevin. He was already lined up, he just squatted down and he just looked up at me like that. And he said, I don't think he can take this ball out.

I said, look at mine, it looks just as bad. He goes, you're appearing rules to this ball, he's no good. I said, well, in the US, you can have to play it. I said, maybe we mine, it looks just as bad. He goes, you're appearing rules to these bodies, and no good. I said, well, in the US, you're gonna have to play it. I said, maybe we should ask you official. So, Annie McVe came in. Great guy. I'm sorry, Sevy, you have to play this ball.

Well, the crowd was into it now, and they were cheering me. The best thing about that, too, is when the crowd, well actually, Sevy Line that put up from every direction. Oh no, let me just say this. I looked at Sevy and I said, I'm sorry, my ball looks just as bad. And Sevy looked at me and he said, no, no, it's okay.

If this is the way you want to play today, we can play this way. And I swear, bro, my hands are not shake when I play, but at that moment, I was starting to quiver. He made the 12 footer. Of course he did. And then as the crowd noise died down, some British guy yelled out, what would you have done with the good balls, Seve?

And I was thinking, man, I put my ball down. I was like this. I hit this putt that went in the hole and came right back at me and the crowd just yelled out. They cheered twice as loud when I missed. And it was really a rough match after that. We went at it. I didn't think he was hitting it that good.

Raymond Floyd comes up to me and I was two down after four. And the car he was all worried. And he says, you all right, I said, I'm great. I said, he's not hitting it that good. He's going to give me a couple holes you watch. He duck hooked it right in a junk on five gift And so he gifted me a couple and we just did battle right to the 18th hole and even my caddy was doing battle It was just awesome. It was like welcome to the rider cup and it became

You know it's in our head. It's in their blood. So it's different for them But my head flipped on Ryder Cup. I'm I will. This is it. Whoop these boys. Next up is Jim Fiuric. In interview, we did back in 2017 before, of course, that he was the captain in 2018. We talk about the upcoming captaincy, but most importantly, what he learned from playing in them and being an assistant captain, I think you will find this interesting to look back on. This is from Jim Furek in 2017. That's good transitions, because I've got a myriad of things I want to ask

about the Ryder Cup. He's like obsessed. I'm a big Ryder Cup guy. So I do want, I want to go back to to Fort T. I can go through like Q&A, like you're gonna test my knowledge. No, no, no, no, it's not a trivial question.

It's not a trivial question. 1923. Samuel Ryder. So I want to go back to Fort T. At the press conference, I didn't look up the exact quote but you famously said something along the lines of if it was up to me I would have changed this shit a long time ago. You're now the captain for the 18 team so has this shit changed? Did I say that? Yeah. I said that in the press

conference. Yeah. I was probably trying to avert any attention that was going other way. Look over here. If you look at the tape, if you looked at the tape with that press comments, I was sitting to the camera's far right as far right as I could get. I was fiddle, let me sit off the stage. Because I've been in, you know, my biggest regret really in my whole career is the rider cups my favorite event. It is the greatest sporting event in golf, in my whole career is the rider cups my favorite event. It's it is the greatest

sporting event in golf in my opinion. And so for me to go into nine of those as a player and have those teams come out two and seven. So losing seven times is my biggest regret. And I've sat in that press conference so many times and you know, the questions are coming up and they're, you know, starting to point fingers and we've stayed pretty unified as a team for the most part and it just, I'll be honest, sucks to be up there and to lose and then to immediately because the losing team you go right to the closing ceremonies and then they marched the losing team right into the press. So you haven't really had a lot of time to digest what just happened. You have, you sit on the stage and you go through the ceremony and one team's happy and one

team's not. It's uncomfortable. And then you walk over the press and, you know, it starts. And so, you know, I used to be Tiger and Phil were on all those teams and they were going to answer 90% of the questions. Right? They're going to ask Tiger the first question. They're going to fall up with Phil, the captain, the rest of us. I mean, I used to say, I used to say, honestly, I could sit on the one side of stage, probably pick my nose and no one would notice. And, um, and so we're walking into the press room and I'm looking around and I said, wow, you know, Phil's here and I'm looking at all the guys on the team.

And I said, um, no, like, you know, I've played Nader 90s now and I'm looking at all the guys on the team and I said, I don't know, like, you know, I've played Nate or nine of these now and I'm the guy. I'm going to get the second question. I know it's coming. I mean, I know it's coming. And so they lead in with Tom and, you know, he talks about disappointment and we didn't win and then they lead, you know, come to Phil and I know I'm getting the next question. So I remember thinking, you know, I'm just over here minding my own business. And yeah, I think the quote that I made, when you go back and read it, is we didn't have a lot

of answers at the time. There was criticism that we weren't a team, that we weren't together, that we weren't close. Now you read the press and Jordan and Justin and they're all buddies and they hang out off the course and everyone's tight. I mean, winning solves a lot of issues when you look at it. When your football team's winning, the coach is the greatest coach in the world and when it wasn't that long ago, Mike Tomman was a heel, right?

Now they're winning and he's the greatest coach ever. Everyone jumps on that bandwagon as far as it's an easy story. And so, you know, for us, though, as a team, we kept coming up empty and losing those events and we were looking for answers. And so I think when the press looked and said, what's going to change it? And I was like, well, if it was that easy, we'd be winning, right? If it were that easy, we've all worked hard. We've all tried to make it better, but we keep coming out on a losing end. And so I think when we all got together in West Palm,

as a group, and it was called the task force, the Ryder Cup task force, which not the best name. But I think it helped us get together as players, as past captains, as the group as PJ of America as a whole, to kind of get together, band our thoughts together, and try to create a plan for the future. And a long-term plan for the future of what can we do in any way to help this team improve and to get better and give them the best opportunity to win. And now we've had some success.

We want to ride our cup. We want a president's cup. And I read the stories and you know it all goes back to well, I don't know what they talked about in that room, but well, you know, the president's cup team has had success for a lot of years. You know, Fred Couples ran a great ship. Went to J. Haas. They passed it down the Steve Stricker. You know, I think that would be almost a shot to them to say that the task force made us made us good in that event. But, um, you know, the Ryder Cup committees worked hard to give the team and the captain

an opportunity to succeed. And I think one thing we can't do is look and say, well, just because of those meetings, this team's playing great now. You know, the kids, you look at the guys that played in the Ryder Cup and the shots that were hit and the quality of not only the veteran play, but young players stepping up, like a Brooks Capco playing in his first rider cup. They've had some great shots and they've played amazing. And you got Phil Mikkelson shooting whatever it was, 52 and coming out with a half against Sergio and one of the greatest rider cup matches ever on Sunday. So the guys have played really good golf.

Our job is captains. Our job with the Ryder Cup Committee in the PJ of America is just to be able to set an atmosphere and give the guys on the golf course every opportunity to be able to compete and to play well. And Davis did a great job both in his first time as captain and a second time as captain is really kind of sitting at atmosphere and and letting the guys go out and play and play free. And it was fun to watch.

It was fun to be there as a captain and and you know, I feel like we all felt like we had a little part in it, but I'm so proud of and happy really not proud. Even a bad word. I'm so happy for the guys that played on that 16 team to watch them have success because my error didn't have that much success. And only two wins. We're gonna take a quick break here

to check in with our friends at Original Penguin. It's almost hoodie season getting down here in Florida. I think I've got four or five of the same lightweight original penguin hoodies. I think I've literally got their entire color catalog at the lightweight hoodie that theyodies. I think I've literally got their entire color catalog at the lightweight hoodie that they would produce that I wear almost every day. I'm actually not wearing original penguin right now,

which is a little bit of an upset, a little bit of a shot because almost literally every day of my life, I'm wearing some original penguin shorts. I'm almost always wearing original penguin shorts when we play golf. You'll see those in a lot of our videos that of course were a big sponsor of season five of Taurus Sauce in the Carolina.

We are huge fans of all of the offerings at Original Penguin. They've got suits, they've got duffle bags, they've got dress shirts, they've got casual shirts, hoodies, sweaters, jackets, you name it, sweatpants, joggers. I just learned what joggers are, thanks to a pair of joggers that they sent me, which I just thought were normal sweatpants. But you can go to originalpagelon.com. You can use promo code NOU20 to get 20% off your purchases starting today, up until October 14th.

Again, originalpangeline.com. Use promo code NLU20 for 20% off one of our favorite apparel companies in the world. So without any further delay, let's get back to the pot. Next step, one of my favorites from the old days, episode 125 sat down with Marco Mira and Curtis Strangin. Of course, worked in some Ryder Cup stuff. Ryder Cup? My, my, another memory of Mark and I,

we're here we go. 1985 Ryder Cup, bell free. Now, it's my first one. I don't care. Yeah, I'm nervous. Come on, man. So we're playing first T-shot, alternate shot. We choose Mark to hit the first shot

because of the way the horse, the horse, course leads up to the way we, you were the horse that might that's for sure. Our horse straight as an arrow. You want to remember to boring par four. I hit my second shot out of the tented village out of some bowl of pasta. It went so far to the right. I took it off the right tense off the right of the bell free on the first hole. And, you know, obviously I was extremely nervous, Chris.

I mean, what could you say? Your first rider top on planet'm playing with Curtis Train. And he had a little more experience than I did, and he was a little cooler. Jeez, release the club a little bit, though. I'm sorry, I was worried about snap, hooking it over in the left gunch. So I hung it to the right.

And it was just talking about the middle of the left miss. I played the practice rounds, and I saw those tents to the right of the bunker over there, and I figured the pitch on the tents is perfect. If I flame it, it's not out of bounds, it'll come right off the tent. I hate those. Upper bowling.

He goes, we're walking off the T goes. Now that was really something to be hold. I mean, that was spectacular T shot there. I'm on like, hey, just go find it. Put it up there by the green. I'll pitch up that you'll make a par. And I think we won, aren't we? Victor, ask.

You just got to get past that first shot, right? Well, I mean, everybody's nervous on the first two. team. Yeah, you're not human. Oh, absolutely. Did you just want to have the the t-shot on number 10? Is that why you you want to be on even holes? I laid up there every time. I didn't have the wrong podcast for that. I didn't have oh, sorry Well, you know, I did go for one time, but you know What a great match play hole, drivable par 4 of a water. And it depends on how you stand in the match, just what your strategy is in the hole. But that goes way back. But Roda Cup is one of the greatest weeks you'll ever be a part of.

I remember that same year in 85, a couple of things happened. One of the matches I play with Tom Watson is my partner. And of course, on the first screen, I'm obviously nervous playing with Tom. And he's trying to give me like a putting lesson. And I'm like, listen, don't worry with Tom. And he's trying to give me like a putting lesson. And I'm like, listen, don't worry about me. You just need to play good.

You know what I mean? I'm just this rookie kid playing on my first Ryder Cup trying not to throw up on myself. And here I got Tom Watson trying to give me a putting lesson. I hope you play well, because if you don't, this could be a problem for our team. And we did okay. And Curtis was probably tons of stories too.

And then later that week, I was paired with Lanny Watkins and we played against Sevy Ballastero's and Manuel Pinero. And they talk about the Ryder Cup today where the couple of Ryder Cup teams, I was on two losing teams, two winning teams and a tying team. So I saw all aspects of what the Ryder Cup was all about. And it's interesting because that first year, I remember they introduced myself on the tee. We were playing Best Ball against Ballast Eros and and Pinero and and you know people clapped it and know who Mark on Eros was and that was fine.

But then they introduced Lanny Watkins and they like booed. There was like about 15 people boo like near the you know and Curris will tell you that. So everybody acted like when we've replayed in America if we won You know there the ugly Americans this and that and I'm like wait a minute whoa whoa whoa whoa When we play at the bell free and you're in Birmingham, England It can get a little you got some abuse over there Yeah, yeah, we're walking off the tee and I looked at Lanny on my and Lanny came on to go So let me tell you what M.O. You don't say one

And Lanny came on and he goes, let me tell you what, M.O. you don't say one, a thing word to these people. I will handle everything, you just play golf. And you got an old Lanny, Lanny and Curtis go away back, he's got the head shake and everything. We drilled him like six and five or something like that. Lanny was just loving every minute of it.

Does that fit into the spirit of the competition? Do you think her, does it border, at least in that era, did it border on the edge of being kind of inappropriate or against the spirit of the game or did you think? No, I just think that it's a different event. You know golf is usually an individual game. And all of a sudden, you know, you throw the team concept.

And for so many years, you know, when Arnold and Jack and everybody, the US always dominated the Ryder Cup. And it never really became a big enough deal until Europe won the Ryder Cup and took it away from America. In 1985. Yeah, in 1983 Europe won the Ryder Cup and took it away from America in 85. When we, in 1983, my first Ryder Cup, there was probably 1500 people, 1500 people at Palm Beach, Sunday afternoon at the end of the matches.

We went to the Bell Free in 85 and there's always a lot of people over there and we lost and we came back in 87 in Mirafield Village and there was 25,000 out there on Sunday. And that was the first time the Euro's had won on the US oil Mirafield. But it changed overnight. Much like the America's Cup. Nobody paid attention until you lost. And it changed a great deal. But it also changed for one very big reason, which for the names of Langer, Lyle, Wuznum,

Sevy, Torrent, Fowdo. Those five, that five nucleus was a big part of their, their Ryder cups for, for 15 years, and they were five of the top 12, 15 players in the world. So they were tough to beat. More Jim Furek from 2017, again, talking about long-term plans for the US side in the Ryder Cup.

I don't know, there wasn't like a list made that here's what we're gonna do for the next four or five years, but the idea was one of the important things I came out with it was we're going to want to identify the future captains and we're going to give them some experience. So I think one of the things we've done to the captain in the past, I think they've all done a good job, but I think they all would have liked to have probably been a vice captain to start with. And I think I might add of the nine captains, nine times I played, I played for eight captains, maybe one or two of them had experiences of vice captain

before. I think Davis was a vice for Corey, and Corey might have been a vice captain for a Lehman. I can't remember, but there was only one or two that had any experience at all as a captain. They all played in a lot of Ryder cups, but to be behind the scenes, to see the decisions that have to be made, the timing of those decisions, interaction with the team, I think is valuable. So for me to do it at the president's cup twice for Jay Haas and for Steve Stricker and to also be a vice captain for Davis to last Ryder

Cup is invaluable for me. So that's one of the things we wanted to do too. I think kind of developed more of a long-term plan instead of we have to win now. You know, it was kind of the idea was let's look ahead. Let's look 10 years, 20 years into the future. What's it going to take to build? And I think any major corporation would look at their business that way. You want to be successful now. But what's going to help carry us? Let's the back of our mind. What's going to carry us in the next 10 rider cups? And the goal would be to try to have a winning record for the next 20 years. That

would be a success, especially coming off of 20 lean years, where we, you know, went to in seven or two and eight. And I guess last, a lot of it was what's going to help the players, you know, succeed? How what can we do? And the idea was the PJ of America committed to the players and the captains will do whatever it takes. And so Davis left me with some wise, wise words that I'll never forget when decisions are made, and especially heat of the battle, heat of the moment or leading up to the Ryder Cup because a lot of decisions we've made in the last couple of months.

The one question he said he always asked himself was, will this help the team? There's going to be a lot of chaos and a lot of noise and even picking uniforms. I mean, what the guys to be comfortable, will this help the team in a little bit of decision? So one thing as a captain, we always want is a one of my be comfortable. Will this help the team in all the decisions? So, you know, one thing as a captain, we always want is I want my players comfortable. I want them knowing exactly who they're going to be playing with. I don't want to throw many curveballs for a necessarily Sunday. So I want there to be a nice game plan going into the rider cup. Right. I don't really want to veer from that game plan too much. We'll have a, you know, a plan, a plan, you know, a backup plan. And I want them going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games.

We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games.

We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to be playing a lot of games. We're going to talk to the guys to prepare. Who do you want to play with? Who do you think compliments your game? Sometimes you want to be thankful that you won towards your championship. You didn't have to go play the better Cup. I did. I hopped right on a play. I was a manor.

Yeah, that was Celtic Manor. I hopped right on a play. I never got a chance to celebrate. I think I had a beer at the hotel. We hopped on a play and went over there and it was like full mode right into Ryder Cup. So, I know what that guy on, they know exactly how he feels. I lived it.

Here's more from Paul Azinger. That's the way I thought. I mean, the passion that people talk about, I get that, I talk about the Ryder Cup on every podcast because the stories that come from it are better than anything that comes from stroke play events, that's for sure. There's a lot of stuff, man. It happens in those matches. You know, on 10, I hit it to the right of the green over there,

going for the green in 89 and when I got up, there's on some ladies, plastic, whatever. And when I got, I had to drop closer, you kept going closer to the green. And when I stood up before I dropped, I stood up and bumped into Sevy because I went to no right where your ball was. And I mean, it was like that out there. And he then he grabbed his ball and tried to place it all around. And thank God it didn't stay anywhere. And I had to set mine on a little tough to grasp to get it to stay.

And he's like, now you have a perfect life. And I was like, he was just like, we went at it. But you know, we were good friends before the Ryder Cup. And I think we were just fine after. Everybody thinks we hated each other and all that. You know, Sevy taught me as much as anybody too. He was great Golf rivalry is different than kind of a personal There are a couple different. Yeah, it was a passion there

You know, we're both patriotic I guess in some respects and then we're very passionate and so the boils over to 91 The war by the shore you and tip back get paired against Sevy and Jose Maria. And was it the first match that the ball compression incident? Can you walk us through what happened there? See, I hate that it's remembered for ball compression incident, but that's what it's remembered for. And I got four of those golf balls, brand new sitting in my room that I found in my old Ryder Cup back.

But, you know, they took a bad drop on number two that the official let them get away. They broke the rule, basically. They hit a ball that they couldn't tell when the hazard, then they played a provisional, which is for a loss ball, and then they went back and dropped like the ball, like they knew the ball went to hazard, but they didn't know. It was controversial, but we won the whole. And then the fourth hole, Sevy hooked it in the junk and the official yells out, he says, five minutes is up.

And then literally within 10 seconds they found the ball and he let him play it. And I just was ape about that and chipper's like, calm down, I said, no man, he can't do it. So that was how that match started. Okay, didn't know that. Yes, and I actually requested another official. So we had another official. So we had another

official command, we had two officials on that match. Then on 10T, they accused of using a wrong compression ball, which we did. And it was totally my fault. But it was a 90 compression titleist versus 100 compression titleist. And we're on the first par five. Here's how it works. If the hundred compression titleist goes off number one, the hundred compression titleist has to go first off every odd hole the rest of the day. Okay. That's as simple as what it is. But that 90 compression ball, which was red, if it goes off number two, it goes off every even hole the rest of the day. Is that still that way?

You can alternate balls. I don't know hole the rest of the day. Is that still that way you can alternate balls? I don't know what the rules now. They've changed. They've done a bunch of changes. But I think it's a one ball rule now. I think so. I think so. The truth. I do know what it is.

Yeah. So my P brain was just figuring, well, if you hit my ball off the T, then I lay or lay up. No, if I hit your ball off the T, if you hit my, no, no, here's what it was. If you hit my ball off the T, or lay up. No, if I hit your ball off the tee, if you hit my, no, no, no, here's what it was. If you hit my ball off the tee, you lay up, I get to hit my ball into the green. That's what it was. And they caught that. And that's illegal. But they didn't call it. It was on seven, eight, we played normal, nine, we played normal. So they tried to call us on it, I guess, on 10 T. And we were two

uppers, three uppers, I mean, shook us up. I'm sorry, it was hard for me to remember exactly that. That's how understandable. This is Paul A. Z. Here here, completely confused. 27 years ago. But yeah, anyway, it was, it was ugly. I always wondered how they could tell. How would they even know? I guess it was the color of the ball was different. That's just a logo. Just the just the pilot stamp and the number on the ball. How did they even know? I guess it was the color of the ball was different. No, just the logo just the Pilot stamp and the number on the ball. How did they notice that? Right. They heard us talking about it. Oh, okay. I was free and talk. We were talking about it. Like it was a great strat boy. Aren't we smart? Right. But boy, we bludgered it because if you hit a black ball off the first T, it's got to be off every at all. And it just seemed like that kind of

Triggered the flames a little bit for that entire right. Made it great. In the end, that little bit of controversy made the rider cup great. It may actually Americans really started to care about the rider cup. But you know, I never wanted to rub anybody's nose and anything either. And I just was trying to protect what we were doing. You know, even when we won the rider cup, you know, I felt so bad that Langer missed a putt in 91 that I didn't run out there in celebrate. Yeah, it's hard to watch. I put my arm around her and I just like, we just watched. I didn't go out there and celebrate because I knew how much that would have affected me.

Then the next year, 93, I was the last match out against Fowdo and I knew what happened to Langer, you know, so that'll make, I was nervous all day that day. Your match ended up, the club had been clenched by the time you and Fowdo got to 18. Yeah, I was nervous all day that day. Your match ended up, the club had been clenched by the time you and Fowl had got to 18. Yeah, I was one down. Yeah. Don't tell me you didn't want to win that hold or make sure you had that.

I did, man. Once he missed his putt and I had about a 12 or 14 footer for birdie, he could have pain stewarded me and said, oh, that's good. We tied the match and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference. But he didn't, he sat there and I was like, I was like, man, follow.

Should be giving me this putt. Would you give it to him? Probably not. No way. No way. He looked at me like, never crossed my mind. You know, yeah, no way. You got to make you putt that.

Oh, yeah, I put it and I made it. Thank God. But yeah, I was that day. I was a wreck all day in 91. You're saying 93, 93, just against Fowda. Last match out. Knowing it's coming down to us. Here's Bones again with a story from his first rider cup.

It's just become so big. When I went over in 93 just to watch, I was going to be outside the ropes and was there literally a matter of minutes earlier in the week and they asked me to come inside the ropes and work there literally a matter of minutes earlier in the week and they asked me to come inside the ropes and work for the team. So basically the best way for me to answer your question is now there's all these assistant captains and assistant caddy captains if you will to you know leave no stone unturned in terms of taking care of people taking care of the players and the caddies and

there was none back in 93 so I ended up being being a go for, if you will, for the team and just running errands all week long. And there was literally a situation in 93 when the players were about to tee off on Friday. Davis, love and Tom Kite were gonna be the first group out. And there was a two hour fog delay. And those guys were hanging out in the team room just climbing the walls, because they basically told them,

you've warmed up now. We're gonna come in and grab you guys and we'll go straight to the tee when it's time to go ultimately. So the players are in there just kind of wasting time, just itching to get out there. And Fred Couples was going through everybody's bag. The bags were neatly stacked against the wall.

They're standing up and was going through everybody's bag, looking at clubs and he went over to Davis Loves and was looking at one of his irons, took out his nine hour waggle that and the head fell off the shaft. What? And bounced down this marble staircase and we all happen to be standing there and we're just everyone's just a gas. Everybody heard this thing bounce around and saw what had happened and this man comes in the front door of the team room said, Mr. Love, Mr. Coyte, you've got five minutes

and we're going gonna go tee off. So, Davis Love grabs this head of this and the shaft and gives it to me and says, go get this fixed. So there I was, the guy who just the day before had been over there just to kind of watch and taking this ride up, and I was running across these fields somewhere in Northern England looking for some guy

with a trailer with a poxie on it. And. And this is not the era of equipment trucks all over the place. No tireless truck, no cowboy truck, no anything. It was literally some guy who had this homemade trailer was there just in case it disaster happened. And we found the guy got the club re-apoxied, gave it to him. And later that week on Sunday, Davis came to last hole, had to make par on the last hole to win the Ryder Cup. Hit this amazing drive, hit a short eye on the green and two put it to win the Ryder

Cup and came over to me and said that was your nine iron that you got fixed and hit it with the green. So it was like kind of my, uh, welcome to the Ryder Cup moment and one of the greatest memories of all of us have of that event. Here's Lani Watkins telling just a plethora of great Ryder Cup stories. The 1983 Ryder Cup at PGA National take us to what happened there down the stretch and who the hero of that one was. Well it was basically down to, we needed the last twoicans on the course were tom Watson myself was since

playing buried galahir he's too up to the play he needs to win i'm one down playing eighteen and i've had a match i'm playing Jose Maria kanzaris i've had a match i should have been five and four i mean he hold it from all over the place first holds a great example i just six footer for birdie he's got a 50 footer for par. We tie the hole.

I mean, that happened all day long. I'm going down going to 16. I hit two iron 12 feet behind the hole. He is sitting the lake to the right. The ball is moving in the water and he chops it out of the water on the green 40 feet holes that I missed a 12 footer. We tie that hole.

I actually made a six footer at 17 to stay alive. Geez. So I mean, we tie that hole. I actually made a six footer at 17 to stay alive. Geez. So I mean, all this is going on, we get to 18 and then everybody is there and say, you have to win this hole for us to win. And I've got the whole team there except for Watson. I've got Fuzzy and Curtis and Kite and J. Haas, they're all there, you know, watching

the fighters holding and Jack's there, Captain, yeah, he's not intimidating at all. I had a really good drive at 18. Actually hit it past Kenna's Aris. He hit three wood in this. The whole back then is a little different than it is now. There was a bit of water. He had to hit over the corner or he could lay up short and hit a longer shot in there. He hit a great three wood. So it kind of forced me into being aggressive anyway. And I remember I hit three wood three wood, so it kind of forced me into being aggressive anyway. And I remember I hit three wood second shot right over the corner of the water. It's hammered it and Curtis strange starts yelling my ball, get up, get up. I said, don't worry, it's

solid. So I mean, so I had 72 yards left to the flag. I'm, Kenna's ours was away. He kind of hit it fat to the front edge of the green. And then I had 72 yards and whole locations back up on top full ridge and I drove a little low 56 degree sandwich in there skipped it right back to a bit of foot and game set match. When the rider cut. It was there. We won 14 to half 13 to half. Most nervous you've ever been over a shot? Probably. Although I've always thought that my pace of play helped me in situations like that. A lot of times before I could think of the magnitude of what I'm doing, I've already hit the shot. There are times in my

career that I hit a shot. I'd be sitting there thinking, man I need to make birdie to win or I've got to hit this close and halfway through thinking about that. I never mind. The ball's already near going into flag. You know, I hit it on, I hit it a lot of times on autopilot. I played that fast. I think that was one of those shots. I saw what I wanted to do. I knew the shot I wanted to hit and then just I kind of did it before I knew what I was doing. If you will, I was nervous, but I will say this, I took that shot that I was probably the most nervous I've ever been hitting any shot was that one. And I've channeled that into my career later that if I can do that, I can handle anything

else that comes down the line. I'm gonna say your reaction after that was just a look of just determination and just, it wasn't really even relief. It was just like, you're... It's kind of like, yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, I remember going up to the edge of the green, kite slapped me on the back and went a go. I want to say something, nothing came out.

Really? Yeah. It was kind of wild. And I must admit that that was the best celebration of all time with Nicholas at night. It was, it was, it was, it was. Oh, okay. Well, let's stop right there.

There was, what did that, what was that, what did that look like? It started with, when, when Fuzzy grabbed a mag and a champagne in the team room and sprayed the crowd. It became an instant wet t-shirt contest for the wives. I mean, it was, I grabbed a bottle of champagne. If you remember who Joe Blackwell was with a PGA, very stage straight, I grabbed him behind the collar for the whole bottle of champagne down his back.

We're drinking from the rider cup. Nicholas water-borted is what Barbara with the rider cup. I mean, he's like, you know, it's full of champagne. Barbara, have a sip of from the rider cup. Sure. And he, as she took the sip, he grabbed her head and dumped the whole thing. I mean, it was, it was Jack Nicklitz. Yeah. Jack water-borted barber with a rider cup. I mean, it was a damn the thing you've ever seen. So it was good stuff. But it was, I had a picture of Jack with a champagne cork in his mouth holding the cup.

I mean, it was, it was some really cool stuff from that, it was quite a party. The damn the thing was was we all went and cleaned up, we destroyed this suite at PGA. We go to the dinner, we come back and this suite is, they've cleaned it up, it's perfect. And we went, we went at it again. I remember carrying Crenshaw and laying him on his bed. Really? Yeah. I mean, literally, he couldn't talk. I mean, it was, it was quite a night. It was the hell of a celebration. What makes people so much more relaxed in that setting or what? Is it just the opportunity to to share an actual victory with people that you want it with? You know, we had a team with a lot of good

friends on that on that team. I mean, you know, three Wake Forest guys on that team. Jay Haas, Curtis Stranger, myself. We had that in common. Ben and I had been friends. Jack and I were friends. I mean, I look at who's on that team. Fuzzy was a friend. Yeah, I mean, we were all pretty close back then. You know, much like the young guys are today, okay?

We were all about the same age. We were all pretty well established in our careers at that time. I'm trying to thank you for this. Anybody on that team that was maybe a rookie Gil Morgan was there, played well, he played with my partner in one of the matches. But overall, it was a bunch of guys that had very similar careers at that point in time. What's your favorite go-to rider cup story? Your favorite memory, favorite go-to story.

You may have already told it on here, but... Well, I mean, I've always, you know, because he was such an integral part of it, it's probably always savvy. You had to get back in his face. You could not let him intimidate you. I was going to say, did you ever have any personal run-ins? Yeah. First hole.

1985, I think, when I'm playing with Mark O'Meara in the morning the second day at the Belfrey. Playing the second day at the Belfrey in the morning Mark O'Meara and I'll play in Sevy and I think Manuel Panero. Going down the first hole, best ball. We get on the green and I've got about 20-25 footer for birdie. Sevvie's about 12 feet. His coin's in my line. I had him move it. I pulled my putt.

It hit his coin. Bounce right. It went in the hole. He was living. You had me, you had me do that on purpose. You had me move my coin so you can make that putt. I said, yes. I got right in his face.

I said, yes, Abby. I'm that blanking good. Don't forget it. First hole. This is all mirrors first router cut match ever. He gets his white as a sheep standing on the first screen. What's going on? I said, love it. Let's go kick. We had him six down and six to play. Oh my God. That's amazing. But we have first hole. I pull a putt hit his coin. Goes and he just, I did it on purpose.

That's the only I can make the putt was aim at a dime. You know, say over here 15 feet from me. I'm going to try and bank it off this dime to get it in the hole here. Right. I'm that good. So I can't buy it. Yeah. I'm that good. Don't forget it. You know, just writing his face. Well, singer tells the story to of at the bell free. I forget who was who was somebody came up to him before he's getting ready to play Sevy. And before the match, somebody comes up to him and says, don't let him pull any stuff on you.

And so like the second hole, he has a scuff on his ball and Sevy is like, I'm taking this ball out of play and Zinger wouldn't let him do it. We like, he, look, look, he backs. He's like, I probably should have let him, but I had this mindset of like, I'm not letting him get away with anything. So, I mean,, I probably should have let him, but I had this mindset of like, I'm not letting him get away with anything. So, I mean, where does it start? I mean, how much of a reputation do you already have to have? He had it back from day one.

I mean, I played him, I played him four times in a row and I was four and I would against him. So that was a good start. So Larry Nelson, I'd be he and Antonio Garrito, three straight matches and 79. So, you 79. And then Larry beat him in singles. So Sevy is very first rider cup ever. He lost four matches to start. But you had to, you know, he just was, I know when I was captain, Tom Laman was going all first against him. And Curtis Stranges and I both got Laman and we told him he's going to pull something.

Go right back at him and don't let him get the upper hand. It won't make sense what are you trying to do but just go right back after him. He did on the twelfth hole and Laman went right back after him and Laman beat him. I was going to say, it's always just weird to me how that approach almost gets celebrated. It sounds like from your perspective, it's not something that should be praised as much as this. No, not at all. I think a lot of the antagonism in the Ryder Cup came from savvy's behavior, being in

everybody's business. The things he did would probably take us off so much that, you know, we would get more upset at what was happening and you get more defensive on stuff. So there's no question, you know, that, I mean, I think he was, if there had to be an antagonist going back in all the Ryder cups and when everything started, I think the arrow points, you know, directly at Sevy, and no one else.

First time that he played in 79 Larry Nelson, I played him. And each time we played here in Garrito, we beat him worse each time. We beat him two and one, then we beat him I think three and two. And when we beat him five and four and Austin shot, that was a day I'll never forget. Because we're playing in the afternoon. And I birdied the first five holes. Larry birdies six, I birdies seven, Larry equal eight. We were nine under through eight holes.

We ended up, you know, I had a two footer, I had a two putt from two feet to close them out three or five and four, whatever it was. Well, Savi didn't give it to me, so I just knew that was going on. I just back whatever it was. Well, Savvy didn't give it to me. So I just, you know, I just, I just backhanded it in. You did back. Yeah. 100%. Did you tell him you're that bleep of goods? I told him that later. That was at the bell for him with Omira and that, and that, I mean, that was just, and the cool thing about that was after I told him that, I got Mark kind of turned on. We lit it up. We were six up in six to play.

They wanted a couple holes to stay alive, but we were, you know, we were going to win. All we had to do was tie one hole on the last six holes. So we, you know, we were up there. So that was always, those are the ones I remember. Those were the fun parts. The good ones, the the celebration stories with necklace at PGA in 83. We got to see a side of Jack. People don't normally see, let his hair down, so to speak. We had dinner at the entire team, you know, has dinners every night,

starting on, what is it, Friday night or, I guess, Thursday night before the first round. So we had three straight nights at dinners at Jack's house. He was that close to where we were playing So instead of having eating in a team room or right there We went to his house every night full of cookout now that was seriously cool Yeah, you know and we're all in the interest and interesting thing about Jack's house. We're walking around Where's your stuff? He didn't have half his trophies out. I mean, everybody wants to see the different trophy. Nothing's out. It's like, come on, man.

It's got him stored away somewhere in the garage. Well, I was, when I was talking to IMG about going with them, I was in New York, talking to Mark McCormick way back in early 70s. And he said, you know, he's trying to impress me. You know, this is Arnold Palmer's office over here. Like Arnold's got an office everywhere that they've got a building, right? So, and he opened the closet door. There's a master's replica sitting in the closet

on the shelf. I thought, what's it in there for? You know, I mean, the things you see in, it's anyway, kind of different. Next up, Justin Thomas shortly after the 2018 rider cup talking about his experience in France. I can't even come close to comparing liberty and then LaGolf National.

I mean, it just was so. You know, you look at the first tee alone. And it just was, I mean, just the nerves that I had at the rider cup or something that I've never experienced before. And what was it like? I mean, in what way? Just as you hold the club,

it feels totally different. I mean, I tell everyone that. So like I hit five wood off the first tee. And when I hit five wood off the tee, I don't, or off of the tee box. I don't put it on a tee. I just, I put it on the ground so I can just kind of cover a little bit more.

And I just tell everybody that if I had to put it on a tee, I don't think I could have really. Yeah. Jordan and I were walking over the bridge and I mean we had everything I'll kind of planned out, but we hadn't really discussed, you know, do you want to go first? Do I want to go first? I think in Best Ball, it's just so much of just kind of whatever the Moe is, you know what I mean? And we're walking these like, you know, you want me to go first?

You want to go? And I was just like, I'll go. I'm going to get it out of you. Just was like, okay, just kind of let me go. But it was, I just was manned, especially because in past, I've learned that when I'm nervous, my miss is left. And that's not a good miss there. So, I mean, I'm just, well, it's got to be, I would imagine at least how I am with the first tee that I'm somewhat nervous about. If I can put driver on it, I'm fine. It's a big old club head. Yeah, but that tee, that was cruel.

Everyone's got to hit iron. It's cold. Oh man. Just the rough, you know, if you hit it in it, you really don't have a chance, but it just is, yeah, I mean, I was, Jordan did such a great job with me and just kind of getting me relaxed and kind of eased into it.

And, because you were, you were in my mind,ped, nervous, nervous might not be the way it were. It's you were anxious. Like you were, you seemed very prepared for it. Yeah. You were ready to do it. You weren't afraid to take the crowd on. You were animated. And it's very, it's all, you don't really know who's going to come out and be kind of

play that role. I mean, we saw Patrick Reed in 2014. We didn't know he was going to be like that and just embrace the moment like that. And some people get, you know, pucker up a little bit more. So did your president's cup experience? Because it was kind of, it's still audibly that was your only writer cup experience that your president's cup experience helped in that regard. Yeah, I think so. And I told, I was talking to Zander about that a little bit. And I was like, and Atlanta, I said, dude, I think that it's, you have this, I was talking to Kentley as well, it's like I think that you have this so perfectly mapped out

to where I think it's so big to play in a presence cut first. I mean, obviously, they were gonna be just fine if they did, and then they play Ryder Cup. But just to, this is the experience. I mean, it's just like coming down the stretch in a major with a chance to win. I mean, you can learn from it, but you, there's a good chance that a lot of those guys in the team room are gonna be, you know, guys that are gonna be in your team room at the, at the rider cup, but also the vice captains, you know, the, the guys that, you know, like I got to know, David Devall at the, at the rider cup, and I didn't really know him that well before, you know, and then F you're a kid, the president's cup and Freddie, I didn't really know that well.

And now I feel like I know, so it's just getting to know those guys and being comfortable around them, but just knowing the guys in the team room of things that I think the president's cup is kind of a good one for, I probably observed a little bit more, especially in the team setting, just in the team meetings or whatever it might be. And I understand that I want to be a leader of a team, but I was trying to kind of understand my role and figure out what's appropriate to say, what not appropriate to say, because the Ryder Cup, I definitely felt like I was a little bit more vocal because I wanted to

be in a felt that it was appropriate. Looking back at the Ryder Cup 2018, it's a weird week for you. I'd imagine that you probably felt like you did all you could. You went four and one. You let the team in points, but the team got smoked. So how do you separate out the two? I mean, obviously you'd rather have the team win.

But does it sting to talk about the Ryder Cup or do you look back on it fondly? It's got to be hard on individual bases. Yeah, I don't think it's selfish to say you look back fondly on it. Well, I look back fondly because I did everything that I could. Right. That's the thing that's hard about the RAD or any team matches that literally the only thing I can control is my match.

And I did everything that I possibly could. And I would like to think I was a good teammate in terms of either pumping guys up or getting them, you know, or just doing anything I could to try to help out. But no, I mean, it just was somewhere we just got outplayed and, you know, some guys just didn't play very well for us. It's just the fact of the matter and it's not like it's, you know, you can't put it on any, you can't put it on Captain Furek, you can't do anything about this.

It's just, you can look at it any way you want, but the fact of matter, they put better in us and we got smoked. So that's, that's where I net out on a lot of it is. I don't have the records in front of me, but Phil has been on every Ryder Cup team. He was going to get picks. That's just how it was going to go. And I think, don't think he won a point. Tiger literally won the week before.

So it was not like he wasn't informed. He went 0 and 3. Bryson was just absolutely on fire leading into the Ryder Cup and didn't win a point. So at certain points, it's just like, you got to play golf and it didn't happen. Yeah, it didn't happen. Did you sense, I guess at what point did you start to sense if you did that there was going to be some potential drama around maybe the pairings or kind of all the things that fell out afterward?

Not until it happened. Really? Yeah. No, I didn't, I don't think anybody really felt that well, one person felt that way, but everybody else I thought was fine. And we all were fine. It just was, I think it's easy when, when something bad like that happens, it's, you want to look at something or kind of cope with it a certain way.

And I think that's just kind of what happened. But yeah, it was like we said, it just got our brains beat in. Well, and also leading up to it, from conversations you and I had, the potential pairings you were throwing out were even different than what they ended up being. So it didn't sound like it was all totally decided upon before you went there who was gonna play with who

or that, you know, speed and read were gonna break up and you and Jordan were only gonna play together. That didn't seem to be the case leading up to it, is that right and sayin'? Yeah, it's, I think. That didn't seem to be the case leading up to it. Is that right and saying? Yeah, it's, I, unless you were trying to throw me off, I'm good with what I tell you. But it's, it really is. It's something to where you, we all have our ideas. I mean, Jordan and I, we knew that we were gonna play together for,

we had a good idea that we were, we were definitely going to play at least one match together. Right. And it was something to where I think if we struggled, then I was going to go out with Tiger and P. Reed and Jordan were going to get back because it's like, hey, if we're winning, then you can't, you know, we're going to keep winning. And it's something to where I remember even at the presence cup, like Rick and I were playing, we were winning every match. And then, I mean, we had Burger and I had no discussions of ever playing together and no captain ever said anything and Rick was going to sit after

noon I think on like Saturday and Captain came up he's like hey you good to go out with burger I'm like oh yeah I'll go out with burger so we just went out we want so it's like it's you always have the up in the air thing of you know some things are gonna need to get changed around because it's something to wear, you know, like the pairings say with Phil, like he had his pairings, but he was kind of, he was taking one for the team, really, and saying like, look, I'm not playing well,

like don't play me. So then when that happens, you have to change something up. But there's just, there's so much more that goes into it than people think. And it's, I mean, it's not like Jim's sitting in there like, all right, let's see if we can really change this up and win this. It's like, no, he's sending out the best teams that we, he feels like we have and we all feel like we have.

And you know, if, if you would have asked me to play with someone, I didn't want to play with, I would have told him, no, but, um, I think that's a good thing about a lot of these teams. We're also good and get along to where we can play with most each other. And that's where it seems, you know, most of the guys that I talked to on the team are pretty good at taking ownership. And like it was not 2014, I know you weren't on that team, but it wasn't dictated who you're gonna play with.

Like you guys are, it's an interaction. Like it's a feedback thing, who do you wanna play with? And you know, it's a certain point, it's up to Fiery the captain, but at the same time, it's like you guys are also identifying the people you wanna play with. Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely. So it's a lot of communication and a lot.

I mean, I've already been asked who I potentially want to play with a couple months ago. Like, it's a lot more than just we get there. And we all sit down like, all right, so who do you want to play with? You know, I mean, I was practicing months and months before with Tigers Ball in case we were to play together. So I would be ready for that. And he was doing the same thing with my ball.

He was doing the same thing with P. Reads ball. So it's like, it's a lot more than people think. Can you teach us? We'll save the draw chip for later because I want to do, I want to still talk a little bit more right. So what did you, honestly, a lot of people correlated, you know, you were the only one that went over and played the French open and you went four and one did it help to have seen that golf course Do you think it's I mean anytime you see a golf course it helps you know it nothing could possibly hurt but

You know I hate to pick on them But it's like it's like I'm over saying Phil wasn't playing while but it's not like if you went over He'd be like oh now I'm good. It's like, no, like if he did go over and play it before the open, he was one of the- Yeah, exactly. A lot of guys, I mean, a fair amount of our guys went and played it beforehand. But the thing is too, is the French was, it was firm.

It was really firm to where it was, I mean, I remember on nine, I was hit in five wood, like five iron pretty much every day. And in the Ryder Cup, I was hitting, I think I was hitting like three wood and then I was trying to hit three wood into the green, so the wind was totally different. It was firm. It makes the rough play a lot differently.

I would imagine. Yeah, so the rough was, the rough was every bit as long at the French, because I just remember I drove it really, really well that week. And I was glad that I did, so I didn't have to play all the rough, but obviously it was being a lot more wet and everything like that. It just, that, that change is that a lot in terms of being able to get to the green and such.

Well, what did you think of the way that golf course was set up? I'll ask that one first and then kind of transition into an idea I have about course set up and the writer cup and whatnot. But do you think, did you like the way that course was set up? Did you think it was a good golf course to play for that event? I mean, I thought it was fine. It's not, I mean, such a golf course.

It's not. And it was kind of funny to me because some guys were like, god, I can't believe how narrow they got these fairways in the roughs up. I'm like, I got news for you. It was just like this at the French Open. This is no different. And I just remember reading stuff online.

And it's like, you know, this is just such a typical home course thing or home field advantage where the Europeans are setting it up. And I just want to be like, this is not any different than this course. It's a hard golf course. It's, I mean, I think seven or eight under one, the French open. And it's like, it's a hard course. So they didn't do anything different in the setup.

But the course is definitely definitely I don't know I mean I liked it I thought it was it's a good test and it has the opportunity depending on the conditions and the wind and whether whatever is to you can have some birdies but it's also especially in that one it got windy in that alternate shot you know your winning holes with bars and bogeys. So I guess it just depends on what you're like watching. Yeah, I just remember looking down that 17th fairway and just being like that is for a 485 yard hole. That is the wind off the left, yeah.

The most narrow fairway, I feel like I've ever seen, it just looked like it was brought in. And so you don't think fairway's a problem, okay? I really, really do not, but my point overall, and I wanna get this out in advance of whistling straights because it can get perceived as just butt-her-diness about losing the most recent Ryder Cup. But I think we're going to start trending towards,

because 16 was set up really friendly bombers paradise. And I think the heroes looked at that. We're like, well, we are going to change that. And put up the groove of the rough up and just made that set up about as hard as possible. I think we're going was looked at that, we're like, well, we are going to change that. And you know, put up the groove of the rough up and just made that set up about as hard as possible. I think we're going to steer right back the opposite way for Wistling Straits. And I just think that at some point,

we're going to have to look into it. We want to set up for the most exciting event because the last three rider cups have not really been close. And their home team has won all of them. Yeah, that's very true. It's like, I don't know if we want to keep trending in that direction.

Because we want drama. I mean, I want the US to win, of course, but we want excitement. We want it to be close and exciting. And I just think that there should be some kind of neutral party that kind of sets up these golf courses. Yeah, that's starting in 2022. Yeah, I've never really thought of that,

but I definitely think that is a good idea because it's not like it's, you're not going to get the better players. When, you know, it's golf course. You know, we could go play Jupiter, par three here. And one of the teams is going to win. Right. So it's, it is, it is true. But, you know, it's, I guess when it is your home field, you know, why wouldn't you do it,

especially when it's something as big as the Ryder Cup. But it is kind of funny how it is turning that way out. So I don't know if I probably haven't played enough to understand it or, but I mean, I know I've talked to Rory about when Dina and he just said it was, it was laughable. The rough was, it was not. Not easy to say. Yeah. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Golf Blueprint.

I'm going to ask you a question. I already know the answer to it. Are you getting the most out of your golf practice? And there's just no possible way that that answer is yes, I'm not getting the most out of my practice. It's hard to make time. Golfers fall into this trap because they don't have a plan. They put too much emphasis on what just happened in the most recent round and they misjudge the areas of the game that need work. Our friends at Golf Blueprint have a great membership program. They have a new classic membership. They cost $39 a month. Nico and Kevin do all of the planning that goes into it and building.

All you have to do is sign up. You get your plan for what your practice plan should be and you get to work. It has helped me get more out of my practice. I need to do it more religiously. I need to, you know, it's kind of like having a personal trainer in a gym but for your golf game. It holds you a little bit accountable. I'm working on, you know, carving out more time to do it.

I know I'm going to be working on these cards as we start getting back into tournament season here in Florida, but wanted to share that news with you guys. They have a classic membership against $39 a month. Go to golf blueprint.com. Sign up for it. These guys have been a great help to a lot of people. They got all kinds of data on their website that illustrates how they've helped people with their golf games at all skill levels, not just tournament players, but all skill levels. So golf blueprint.com, check it out. Let's get back to the pod. Next up, it's Bones again talking about the comments the Phil made after the 2014 rider cup and the fallout from that and how things played out in the coming years and months.

It was, you know, an absolute indictment of the process. It's to use your words. And an absolute indictment of the process. It's to use your words. And I mean, this had been building for some time. I think, you know, you could, it was, you could have a problem with the way, you know, the captains were selected and I'm not talking about Tom Watson. I'm just talking about generally speaking

over the last 15, 20 years. But again, I think the player is also all wanna be part of the process and you can't, you can't go to a guy, you can't go to a guy the day before the match is start and say, okay, you're going to now play with this guy. And you've got today to get used to his golf ball or what of the case may be. You've got to take these things very, very seriously. And again, to kind of, you know, reiterate how well the Europeans were doing it. They go so far as to having control of their t-times

over there on the European tour. So the captain of their Ryder Cup teams was basically putting guys together on Thursday and Friday or calling the tour and say, put these two guys together so they could get used to a one another being around each other seeing how they play spending time together on the golf course because they were thinking some months down the road is putting them out together in some kind of format at the Ryder Cup. And there was just, they weren't leaving anything left to chance in terms of how far they would go to win these things

and the setup of the golf courses and all this stuff. And we weren't doing that. And it had to happen. And at some point, collectively, these guys had to get together and get some kind of movement that turned out to be this task force to get it fixed. And certainly Phil took it upon himself to kind of get this ball rolling. And you can like it or not like it,

but the reality is that a tremendous amount of positive, you know, in terms of the US Ryder Cup movement came out of this and had a lot to do with the with the win in Hazelstein. Next up, Jordan Speet talking about the 2018 Ryder Cup. We've got to talk about the Ryder Cup. Some, the first question I have is regarding kind of some of the drama that happened on the back half of an afterwards. Could you sense that building up while you're there or during that week that there was going to be some drama unfolding? No, I don't think so.

It was, I felt like everybody went into it. It felt a lot like the presence cup in 17. It felt pretty light. It felt as light as any writer cup. It felt that I had been a part of. You know, I think people were we're trying to figure out, people were trying to figure out the pairings. There was a, you know, some new guys, there was some, you know, I don't think Brooks and DJ were gonna go, which, you know, you left two guys playing at the top of the

world. Who do you pair them with? Pretty similar styles of game. And then Tiger, obviously, being in there and him being in the pod with fire squad, whatever we call it, with me and Justin and Patrick. It was, how is this going to mix a match? Who's going to play with who, what format? So I think there was a little bit of like a Little bit of a hesitation on parings But other than that. I mean off the course. It was it was fantastic and and I felt like everyone had trust it

with so many guys in form everybody I mean really everybody except myself was playing well going into it and I mean I think by DJ standards he had finished maybe 20th one week. So that's pretty low for him. So now, I guess before you and Patrick hugged it out at farmers, had you guys spoken it all before that? And is it totally bygones, be bygones with everything that happened? Yeah. We hadn't. I'd seen him at Sony, I think, for the first time, and I just like, hey man, how you doing? Happy New Year. And he said the same back, and that was about as far as it went.

And then I knew we were going to get paired at some point. And I knew the tour was trying not to pair us just for the, and then of course we get paired on like a Saturday or whatever it was and can't control that. So we had, I had ideas on what to do. It was, I think my one of my ideas was to give him a hug and that's someone Michael voted for. He's like this one you got to do. I can't remember my other ones. It was maybe like a, I was going to fake the handshake and pull it back and just try and blow it up even more. But I think that was, it was kind of, yeah. I mean, nothing, nothing's been different since nothing was really

different that week. It's like it, and even when we do play together, we're both still trying to beat each other up. So it's like, I remember you saying that last time you're on is when you guys are playing a match against others, you guys are trying to beat it. We're trying to get the credit for the match. So we're trying to play better than the other, even in alternate shot.

Or like, I'm like, we'll literally say things to each other. Like, thanks for putting me behind that tree. Like, why don't you hit a fairway? You know, like something like that. Or, so it's, it's a totally different scenario than what you'd probably expect out of a pot. But you know, for me, it was, I'd grown up with Justin and we'd always dreamt of playing a match together. So when I got asked,

it was, man, it'd be really cool for at least one of the matches if I was able to play with Justin just because we've always wanted to do it. Like, look, the Ryder Cup is the Ryder Cup. It's everybody looks at it as, you know, a mate we approach it like a major championship. If not more so, even put it on a higher pedestal. But at the same time, I don't want to, you know, I wouldn't want to not play with Justin for 20 years of playing in the Ryder Cup and be like, man, I mean, these are, I don't want to call it exhibition, but like these are like, these should be

really fun too, even with the intensity that we that we go into them with, like, how cool would it be to play with one of your best friends that you grew up since you were 14, 13 traveling the world with. And all of a sudden, we both, you know, are able to do what we love to do, get onto or become major champions. How awesome would that be for us to be able to team it up for our country and the biggest event that Goth offers in the Ryder Cup? It's just like man it'd be whether it happens this year or not, I'd love to play with them. And that they came out with those pairings and that's what we went with.

And me and Justin played great. I mean, it was, it was a blast. We had so much fun. And then, the drama that happened after is just, I think Jim did an awesome job. I think Jim did a great job as a captain. I think he was a player's captain. And he has to be the one to sit on the sword. And it's like, it's not him. We just didn't

play well. It's that simple. It wasn't because of his job. It was like, look, if you had a, if you, if you, if this were a 72-hole event, there would have been, you know, a couple Americans in the top 12th and the other 12 spots would have been, you know, a couple Americans in the top 12th and the other 12th spots would have been the Europeans. They just played better that week. The course was set up so well for them. They did a great job of that. They found where, you know, our issues were and our games and where their advantages were

and they took advantage and we did the same thing a couple years before. Yeah. It's just you've got to be able to overcome that compensate for that and hit the right shots and make the putts and they just did that more than we did. It's that simple, like they just outplayed us. Yeah, I think the drama definitely unfolded because of the poor play. It wasn't necessarily the other way around. Sure, yeah.

I mean, on Sunday, I lost my singles match and I played really poor. I played way worse than I did with Justin. And there's no question that having a partner where in the same way when I played with Patrick, I mean by Sunday, it's like a let down plan of singles match because you just get this, you're so fired up to play with a partner. We never get to do it.

You're feeding off each other. You're high five. Patrick broke my hand in 2016 when he hold out that wedge. I remember that. On number six. I mean, I mean, he was just, it's so much fun playing with a partner that I have a hard time, I've had a hard time on the singles days of stepping up

with the same kind of intensity. It's something I need to work on for our teams going forward. Should I be so fortunate to make as many as I can? It's, you know, I feel, I feel like I let the team down there and in it being going out pretty early and having a chance to put right on the board there in 2014 that really could have made an impact. So that hurt at the end of that, but personally,

but I knew I wasn't playing well going in. I wasn't in form. I was working my hardest to be as good as I could be. And really just had an awesome time that week, no matter what. And there's nowhere to hide on that golf course if you're not striking very well. That was a pretty much the wildest setup I'd seen. That's 17th hole that fairway looked like it had been moved in. I'm sure that people will say that it wasn't moved in, but that was the smallest fairway

for a 485-yard hole I've ever seen, I think. Yeah, yeah, with the rough-grown India. Next up, Brad Faxxen talking about his Ryder Cup experience in 1995. You made the Ryder Cup team through that final round of Riviera. What was your first Ryder Cup experience like? Well, I get questions.

What was the most nervous you've ever been in your life? And people always say it must have been your first time, your T-shot at the Masters or on the first tee at the Ryder Cup or a putt to win your first tournament or a major championship which I never did, but I can tell you at the Ryder Cup in 95, we played a practice round on Monday when the gates were closed, so there were no people, no spectators. And then Tuesday, we went out and I got a pairing with Lauren Roberts, Peter Jacobson, and Corey Paveen. And Peter and I were a potential four-bought team.

Lanny wanted us to be the first ones out. And that morning, that particular morning, and Rochester was later September, so it was cool, it wasn't cold, but I would say it was 50s. And Peter and I were gonna go out there and play. We had to walk from the practice tee to the first tee, which was a hundred yards, maybe longer. There was a gauntlet there, and there were people waving flags, screaming USA.

And we'd gone from a dead silent course the day before to all of a sudden, thousands, thousands of people. Practicemen are rowdy. Oh my gosh. It was incredible. And none of us had seen this before. I don't think we were prepared for that. And we're walking up there.

We're all wearing our red, white and blue. And the flags are going and people are high five. And we're walking up there. It was fun. And we walk up onto the tea, you know, just kind of the backside of the first tee there. It's standing on the first tee, Byron Nelson, George Herbert Walker Bush, wave in American flags. And then a normal tournament, right? Yeah. And I'm like, oh my god, that's Byron Nelson. And he said, come on Brad, and I'm like, he knows my name.

Brad Nelson knows my name. I'm like, oh my God. So, and then it was like uncanny. It was a voice of God said, and on the tee, first to play from the United States of America, which I had never had before. Maybe I had it in a Walker Cup.

Brad Faxon, I didn't know I was gonna be the first one and I was like, oh my God, I don't know if I can do it. And this was 1992, so I was 95. So I was one of the last guys to switch from wood to metal. And the metal wood, I was probably using either a tailor-made or a founder's club. I don't know if you're old enough, you're never a founder's club. But I took that thing out there and it looked smaller than the golf

ball when I was over it. And the first hole it'll kill is a long dog leg left par four without a bounds to the right. It was blowing left to right. It was cold. I was nervous and what makes it worse is we had this little phrase called might M-I-T-E and that meant man in the envelope. What that meant was we all knew that if on Sunday in the singles match one player was hurt on the other team, Lanny was going to have to put a man in the envelope, a name in the envelope. So if somebody hit a bad shot that week, we also might. So you were going to be the guy that didn't play. Right. So might. Yeah. And I thought anytime Lanny was

around and I hit a bad shot, I was thinking might, you know, it was just the worst thing because that had happened to the at the war by the short. Steve Payte got an answer, right? In the limo. And I was good. were born in. So that's born 86. Okay, so we go out. I go to hit it and I got an airborn. I hit a draw and it ended up just in the left rough. And for me, it was the best shot of my life, right? Without a doubt and everybody hits

and we go out there laughing. And I think either Lauren or Corey was the only guy to hit the fairway. And then we get out there laughing and I think either Lauren or Corey was the only guy to hit the fairway. And then we get out there and magically all four balls were within five, ten yards of each other because Lanny and thrown them all out in the middle of the fairway. He was out in the landing area and he comes over like Lanny Ken with that swagger and he says, ah, you guys won't hit it there in the tournament in the competition.

I'm like, I might, I don't hit a lot of fairly. If I hit it good, I'd go. So you're right. So now, I had like 210, 220, and it was wet. It's a little downhill lie. There was a creek 10 or 15 yards short of that green. And I had to take out a two iron. And this is back with two ironers.

That's a different shot. They didn't have head covers, right? They weren't fat. And I'm like, oh, and Landy's watching. And like, I could be kicked off the team right now. This doesn't get over the creek. And so that first hole was the most uncomfortable I've ever been in. That's it. In a practice, I was way more comfortable playing, way more comfortable. So I mean, it's ironic that it's a practice run. It's not unexpected that it was the rider cup, though, right? And there, that's a cool letter that I got from Byron Nelson. He wrote me a letter one time and after my second place finished at the

tour championship, he saw an interview. So to have a framed letter, handwritten pen letter on his stationary, and that the great line there at the very Andy says, you're a fine man. Now, who says that? Right. Nobody phrases anything like that. You can hear the accent, though, and you're a fine man. When you say...

Next up, Colin Montgomery talking about his experience, both as a player and a captain in the Ryder Cup. From a timeline of events, what was the low point? I think the easy answer is probably 99 at Brookline. Is that the case? Of the heckling. Yeah. I can, I suppose, you know.

I mean, the one thing that we didn't, the one thing that we made a mistake on and as a team, and as administrators of the game within the European team, America had not lost the rider cup three times in a row. We'd won it in 95, we'd won it in 97 and we were 10, 6 up going into 99. And we didn't give enough respect to Americans by them not wanting to lose three times in a row. It wasn't just my game, there was other incidents on the course during Brookline. It was one of these days, but nothing can be taken away from the fact that America played

extremely well. You know, they won the first six games, which is unheard of. And suddenly from 10-6, we were, we were 12-10 down and things got, you know, really smelly, you know. But at the same time, you know, I have to go back to the gentleman that I was playing and I'm a gentleman in painstead. To think two months later he's not with us, was shocking to everybody. It was a game that I will always remember.

Not the result, the game of golf didn't matter a damn. When you think about, you know, you're playing partners, not with us two months later. And current US Open Champion, you know, was amazing. So the result of the game didn't matter that, when you look back at it now, you know. Well, can you tell the story of why that meant so much to what he did to that Sunday? Well, yeah, I will.

You know, the first thing that pain said to the press, and I was watching I was there in 99, obviously, at Pinehurst when he won the US Open, and when it's so well, remember the pot that went in with a cut off, it was raining and the cut off, it sleeves and all the stuff that went on, and the patriot that he was in saying that, my God, yes, I'm in the right cup team now.

Now, he just won the US Open. And you thought that was a big deal, right? But he said, no, I'm back in the right cup team because he didn't play. I don't think in 95 or 97. So, he's back in it and it meant that much to him, even before he'd said anything. So, coming back to Brookline and playing the singles match,

which is what people tend to remember the right cut with is your singles games really mostly than your four sums or your four ball. That works out well for you. Well, yeah, yeah, but that's what you tend to go. And of course, so having said that it meant so much to him, and then to the detriment of his own game, to actually go into the crowd and eject a few people on my behalf, that meant the world to me, on my behalf, so it could have happened to finish with a lasso ball and Justin Lennon didn't hit the game before, but we were behind them watching it all unfold and So that was to the detriment of his own game in The fact that winning the US Open get back in the rider cup RIDER Cup team, that to me was a real gentleman.

Yeah. What do you owe your RIDER Cup success to? We were looking at your Wikipedia page. Your playoff record on the European tour was 0 and 7. It was. And your singles record in the RIDER Cup is 6-0 and 2. How do you possibly explain the two? Because I guess I feel like rather unfairly, people,

because of the fact you never want a major in the intor that you were somehow being labeled as not being able to play under pressure. Pressure doesn't get any bigger than the rider cup and maybe no one ever has been better than you. So how do you delineate that to? Usually you see like, but somebody with like, Tiger Woods has been the complete opposite effect.

In a way, it goes back to this crazy game of golf. And anybody, your listeners here would understand how crazy the game is. Yes, I can play under pressure. Everybody that gets to a certain position in the game can. It's just a matter of if your opponent's not having such a good time or someone does something fantastic. I mean, I was going to get beaten in the right a cup If someone came out and shot nine under, I mean best of luck to them. It just so happened that they didn't You know you go off to a flyer and and you've had it Francesca Molinari won the first two halls against Tiger when I was

Captain in in 2010 we thought okay, that's. And then Tiger Birdies 9 out the next 11. You know, 7 and 6, you think, what the hell happened there? You just, you get fortunate, you get unfortunate, whatever. And I happened to play some good golf within that time. I hold some good parts. I potted well. And I wasn't afraid, because the rider cup I had other people on my back, you know, I was fortunate in the time that we played the rider cup, we had five guys in Europe that were

really apart from Freddie couples and I think Nick Price Greg Norman, you know, that was it, really, that was the top ten in the world and five of which were European, with Lena Lyle Langer, Sevy Faldo and of course Wuznum and so I started off playing with them so if I felt that if I didn't win well they were gonna they were gonna do something to help me out here so I had more freedom in that radical than I would have done normally so So playing the rider cups, I had more freedom, especially early doors. And then the last three or four rider cups, I got to a stage where people were sort of beginning

to rely on me, and I enjoyed that. I enjoyed that feeling and went out and performed okay. So yeah, I was lucky, especially once. Lucky, you're six-oat-two isn't lucky. Especially once. Lucky is six. Well, two is a lucky. Once there was a time. 2006, it happened to be my last rider cup. I mean, you don't know it at the time, but yes, it was my last playing the rider cup at the K-Club.

And we were ahead, quite well ahead, I think, 10, 10 and a half, 5 and a half, or something, going into the singles. And in Wuznum came to me, the captain, I never forget it. And he said to me, you know, you've been going first for a while here, wanting, uh, uh, Jemaine going first again, because you know what might happen. You know what they're going to do. Now, down, you've got to put your strength at the top and Tiger was the strength. So he says, do you mind if you go first because odds on you're going to have to play Tiger Woods in the singles, you see? And I go, look, look, you're the captain, I'll go anywhere. I'm delighted to go one to twelve, whatever the case may be.

Yeah, sure, you know fine. So something, oh God, whatever said, you know. God, you know, you signed up for Tiger Woods. Absolutely, I've signed up for the worst game of have I said you know you signed up for Tiger will absolutely have signed up for the worst gave of my life you know anyway, so I'm talking about fortune in in some ways to hear so the draw comes out and It comes over the radio. We're all sitting in the sitting in the locker room

the European locker room and it's a bit crackly the phone the walkie-talkie type thing so the draw comes out and it's a bit crackly, the phone, the walkie-talkie type thing. So the draw comes out and it goes, Monty, you see, because it was John Paramore, the European referee, and he's always known me as Monty. So Monty first against Tom. Tom, and I'm thinking, Tom, hang on a minute. Tom, who's Tom? Tom layman's the captain.

Why have they put me against the non-playing captain? I'm supposed to be playing Tiger, you know? And I didn't hear Tiger. And it was David Tom's. You see? David Tom's and they'd switched it. Tiger actually played, I think, fourth. He had to be in the top sort of half. I think he played fourth and played Robert Carson in the end. So you say fortunate, you say not. I mean, David Tom's my god, you know, he could be anybody on any day, anywhere, some guy that you've got to go and play, you know, you best golf to try and beat. So you know, I'm not saying it was easy, but at the same time, possibly even David would understand it was easier than Plain Tiger Woods. Of course, you know. so there you go. Well, this is kind of a random nugget I found when I was, you know, preparing for this was Paul Casey did an interview talking about the O6 event. He said

nobody really noticed this, but while all the players were on the balcony spring, champagne having a good time, Monty was nowhere to be seen. He just wants a quiet moment and I couldn't understand that. Was that the case when you guys would win them, runner-cup, you would, you would not, you would kind of need a quiet moment? Why is that? Very much. Going off first in the rider cup is not a position for everybody. It's not someone that everybody would put the hand up for. It was a big deal and I had a record in that rider cup that I was very proud of and I hadn't lost in seven and this was beginning

to not lose in eight. I was two up to go against David and David birdied 17 to be just one downplay in the last. I managed to birdie the last and to half it with David he finished birdie a birdie. I managed to half him at the last to win by one hole. And it took a lot out of me, took a hell of a lot out of me, and I went into the players' dining area, the European players' dining area, which of course was empty, because I was off first. So it was nobody in there. I think the chef was even out watching the golf,

the Irish chef, I don't blame him. And so I just needed a moment, I needed to sit down in a moment because the crowdy Irish chef, I don't blame him. And so I just needed a moment. I needed to sit down in a moment because the crowd were going nuts. It was Darren Clark's ride a cup. It was everything was going nuts. Although I went out to the 16th hole where it was all going off.

I stayed at the back. I didn't want to be part of a huge, everyone was going nuts and I just stood back, but I did take about half an hour in that team room on my own, because sometimes, you know, it gets to you sometimes, when you're out in that position. And that's all that was. Did having been a captain as well, how different,

obviously you're not playing the golf, but did you, did you, I guess, you know, I've heard some captains say like, wow, I would have been a very different player For my captains having gone through the captaincy. What was that experience like? Did you kind of have that same reaction? Yes, it was, you know, having having had a having had a reasonable career playing You don't want to really spill it by losing as a captain now I hated it to be honest really absolutely hated it. Not

and now I hated it to be honest. Really? Absolutely hated it. Not that, that's harsh. Hated it when the players left the first tee. Because you were out of control. Correct. I was enjoying it to that stage and then suddenly my god, I've let my first group off. Now they've got to come back in four and a half hours or however long it was taking.

With half a point or a point, I've made a terrible mistake here. And it's too much really emphasis on the captain's journey with you. I mean the players have got it. I mean I can't. I'm not coaching these guys. If these guys miss a three foot, but that's their fault. It's not really me. You can't really blame me for it. But the captains tend to have to take that on the chin, you know, and it's tough. And any captain or any coach or any manager of any team, but it'd be baseball or football or basketball whatever it might be, tends to get that.

And it was just a lack of control feature that I didn't like. I hated that lack of control. We're a sent off my team. And I didn't have any control. Nothing. I could do nothing about it. At least as a player, well, I had some control control even if the guy was eight under plane against me. Well, I'd control to be nine under

I had a had that you know, you know thought But as a captain my god, I'm nothing. I just drove around a buggy looking at my phone looking at the score But they can know Christ what's happening now, you know So it was like a control that I didn't that I didn't like and I'm sure that every captain would say the same. So all the success you had as a player winning as a captain as that was that kind of your I can't I'm at the peak of the Ryder Cup. I'm that's it. I can't do it. That's it. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Now forget the Ryder Cup. Now you have done being there, done that and you know to use a term and yeah that was it for me. I spoke to Sam Torrance, I spoke to Inwusner, I spoke to Bernhard Langer about doing it again

sort of thing and they said look Monty, run a mile, run a mile from this because once you've done it, once you've been fortunate, one by half a point, don't toss that coin up again, you know, don't do that again. And I, yeah, I don't know what they were saying. I can understand it fully what they were saying. If I'd lost, or if the team had lost, then you could come back a bit like Davis Loved did in 2012 to come back in 16 and win it again. Great, you know, fine, best of luck to him. But as a winner, I think you've got to get out.

Yeah, yeah, since. Next up, how's Sutton talking about his captaincy? The vibe I get from a lot of past captains is very mixed on what they're overall experience as a captain, whether they recommend it, whether it was worth it. What can you speak of to that in your mind? I know you kind of, you know, I guess describe your relationship with the game of golf shortly in the years

after your captaincy as well. Not quit completely. 46 years old. I was fully ill, but all the way to the championship and I completely quit the game after that point. I did not play 20 rounds of golf in five years after that. And why is that? Because I was so disappointed in the effort that I put into it and how I was the escapegoat for everybody. I was the fault. And I never hit a shot. And you know, I did

everything. I brought Jackie Birkin there who was certainly not current in the game. And I brought Jackie Berkin there who was certainly not current in the game. And I brought him in because I thought he was the most knowledgeable person in the game left. And I wanted the rest of the players to know him. I brought Steve Jones into it as my assistant captain who was not current either because he'd had elbow problems, but he won the US Open at Oakland. You know, I'd done a lot of things leading up to that that I thought were recognizing people in the game and of the game and far of the game. I was hurt. I was bitter after that.

My dad begged me not to do it. He said, how, you're still a good player. You've got no business doing it. And I didn't listen to him. And I said, how many people would ever turn their back if asked to be a captain of the rider captain This is what I played for my whole life, but I was bitter So I would fit into the category of if they asked me again

If I had the knowledge I have now probably wouldn't do it Next up a shorter one from web Simpson talking about 2012 that win is gonna help you get on the Ryder Cup team 2012 you guys come out and Medina you and Bubba are paired up and those I was there those first couple days man That was just a clinic. I mean it was you guys were killing it. It was so fun to watch Do you when you when I mentioned the 2012 Ryder Cup? Do you look back with fond memories of your first Ryder cup and playing well or do you remember what happens on Sunday? Josh, I remember both. I mean, it's a very of all the team events I've played. It's probably the most vivid team event and it's, you know, it was at eight

years ago. Davis was an amazing captain all week. We had Michael Jordan come in give us a three rider cup, pub, pub speech, which was amazing. So we had a 10-6 lead, we're feeling great, we're playing great. Our whole team is incredibly confident when we go to bed Saturday night. And Davis, he did an amazing job even Saturday night. Short and sweet told us to keep doing what we're doing. And, you know, he's sent out, I think, he kind of front loaded it and back loaded it. And, you know, he's, I've heard him say before, like he wishes he'd have done stuff differently,

but I think he did as best he knew he could do in that moment. And so it was humiliating, I think, to lose a lead like that in my first Ryder Cup. And honestly, we're just as sad after that We didn't win for Davis as anything because he's a guy on tour that I think you could say this only about a few guys that everyone loves Davis And everyone's got huge respect for him his career You name it and so that was hard, but being my first rider cup I experienced things that I've never experienced in the game of golf.

Like the most nervous you'll ever be as a golfer, I'm convinced, isn't a rider cup. But the most fun you'll ever have as a golfer, I think, is winning a point in the rider cup. I mean, it is so fun. You're winning it for your country, your team. And what's cool, Chris, is like PJ tour players, like everybody's's got I don't want to say ego, but everybody's got confidence like everybody walks around these tournaments They believe in themselves, and that's probably why they made it to the PJ tour and that's great But these team events all that goes away and like You know everybody talks about you play for your team play for your country play for each other

But it's kind of cool to experience guys in a team environment because All that all the self-ac the self accomplishments goes away for that few days of golf, which is really fun to experience. That's interesting. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you, you, you can dominate each other, you know, week and week out, but now you owe it to the rest of the team to play what, play good golf this week. Exactly. And kind of just humbles you at least a little bit.

It does. Yeah, you forget about yourself. Next up, Furek again, this time reflecting back on the 2018 Ryder Cup. When I mentioned the 2018 Ryder Cup, is it immediately, is it a happy memory? Catched 22. I mean, I loved the process.

I loved all the work and the hundreds of hours that my wife and I put into it. And it comes to fruition. And I love the 12 guys I had and the way it looked. And that'll always be my team. Most of them still call me Cap. When I look at it, the result, I mean, the results things. I mean, you know, forever, there's losses that you said will haunt you forever. I mean, that's the one that I'll never, I won't get over that, but you know, I can tee it up in a tournament and go play, but I'd be lying if I said it's my favorite event. It's probably the mark on my career

that bothers me the most is I've been involved with so many rider cups, right? I've been, I think, involved with 11. I played in, I might have been involved with more, maybe 12. We've won, I played in, I might have been involved with more, maybe 12. We've won, I played on nine teams, so I guess I'm involved with my 12th now as an assistant for... In your assistant? 16th.

For Davis. Yeah, that's right. So I'm involved now in my 12th, but you know, 11 events and we're 3 and 8, and so I look at that way where, you know, 16 was so much fun for me just to watch those guys play so well and pretty much dominate from start to finish and bring home the cup. And I was just so proud of them and so happy for Davis because, you know, quite honestly, we shit the bed at Medina and it's something that shouldn't happen. You know, I felt bad for Davis as a player, you know, looking back and a dear friend.

And so to see him do a great job, and then the guys go out and respond and play so well. I was just proud of the team and happy for Davis as a captain, to have that scenario kind of flipped. And we got off the good start, but then got behind the eight ball in that second and the third session. And I look at it. I'm sure there's guys out there that said, you know, we wish we would have played better.

I wish I would have made some, you know, I guess the funniest comment, and funny is a bad word, but the comment that surprises me, it shocks me the most is I've had a handful of people come up and say, you know, if you got to do it all over again, would you do something different? And I almost laugh. I'm like, well, what arrogant asshole would have the event go the wrong way and then

say, nope, I'd do everything the same way. Like, how I mean, of course, I do things differently, right? I had nine sites 2020. And of course, I go back and change at the time, you know, I'm looking at my vice captains, I'm looking at a stats team, I'm looking at a lot of different things and having I'm the CEO, I'm the one that's got to pull the trigger and make a decisions. And I thought we were doing the right thing, you know, and what I change, absolutely. Well, I think we all would, if that made sense, top to bottom, and that's part of it.

So as a bother me, it always will. But the whole process itself, it's something that I always wanted to do, you know, after I played in like maybe two or three of those rider cups, you're like, oh man, would it? It would just be cool if I got the opportunity to lead and be a captain of this team. And then after you play on six, seven teams, I'm thinking, it's probably, we'll come to fruition.

It could be an opportunity someday. And you just kind of wait your turn. And I was kind of thankful that I, I mean, everyone home game but we're gonna go over there and we're gonna win and we're gonna on foreign soil and we're gonna I firmly believe we're gonna turn this around in order to do that we have to win on foreign soil I really wanted to be part of the team I wanted to be the captain of the team that did that it didn't come to fruition but it will and hopefully I'll be over there. And maybe I'll be having a cocktail with Curtis and Ben and all the big smile on my face when it happens.

Well, golf fans, I would definitely say armchair quarterback the most with the rider cup more so than any other, maybe any other events come. You have never seen me watch a football game, particularly the Steelers. Well, I'm saying with all golf events, like that is the one that they armchair the most. Well, yeah, because they're strategy involved, there's teams involved. There's a way you put your order out. There's there's a lot involved in it. So it's easy to armchair.

Well, that's what I just was wondering if you, it's a weird way of asking this, but is it any easier losing as bad as you did? Because like the team just flat out did not play good enough golf. I don't know what you can do about Tiger going O and four coming off the tour championship. Bryson went O and three, DJ, a guy you're leaning on a ton went one and four. Sure, you like in, you know, in theory, you could have paired them differently and maybe they would have played better, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I don't know how you, I'm asking this in the way like, are you beat, do you beat yourself

up over anything here? Because I don't see anything glaring that if you wanted a nitpick, it would be like, all right, Phil probably wasn't a great fit for that golf course, but Phil probably wanted to be on that team, and that was probably a pretty easy decision, I would think, to put them on the team. But that's the only one that, with hindsight,

that I would say. A lot of that was, he actually was playing pretty decent on the way in there, did not play well right after we picked him, didn't play very well leading in, but wanted some decent on the way in there. Did not play well right after we picked him. Didn't play very well leading in, but wanted some experience on the team, going to Europe. And one of the coolest moments for me at that event was walking to the first tee on Friday morning for the first match. And they built that giant amphitheater.

And we as players, captains would come in from the top and walk down the steps, and I got realintelessly booed down the steps, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. That, no, the British fan, the European fans said, I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. It was awesome. And it's funny how many players in captains from the European side said, you know,

like we're so sorry that happened. And I said, for what reason? Like, that's part of it. That's what sport. It wasn't like a, I think they meant it in a friendly way. I'm like, I hate to say that, but like, you know, it wasn't a, you know, wasn't like one in New York and getting called a bum. It was, you know, like, we're rooting against y'all week here.

It comes. And I was like, we're ready. That's part of the matter. So it was fun. I waved a smiled thumbs up. That's pretty cool. I enjoyed that part of it. But I understand the arm track quarterbacking. You know, I watch, I'm a giant sports fan.

I watch a steal their game. It's, you know, third and one and all of a sudden we're going five wide and, you know, and you're looking at it going, what in the hell are we, you know, just give it to the big guy and let's turn it out for a yard and a half and you can't get it, you can't get it. But I mean, like, you know, what are we doing with five wide and then also no one's open or he makes a quick pass, it's tipped or whatever and you're done

and you're like, all right, what, yeah, I'm making it, you know, what don't I know? Hey, the fullback's hurt, he's over there dinged up with a knee and, you know, there's things that I don't know as well. And I'm not saying the fans out there don't, but it's, you know, you do the best you can, you make the decisions you make. I have to live with them, right?

And folks are gonna criticize them. That's part of my job. I mean, is there a rider cup captain? One thing you always have to know, you deserve very little to credit when you win. You're gonna get none and you really don't deserve much of it and you're going to take most of the blame on a loss and I'm totally fine with that. That's that's part. I do a lot of work and get ready and and put those guys out there and give them every opportunity to succeed and you know

what I change things. Sure, but you know when we look back at it I have good memories because I love I love those guys. Remember you say into the trip The trip was great the outside of the then you guys spent some time in France outside of the We really didn't have you just don't have that much of an opportunity especially coming off the The torch amateurship so you arrive Monday you want to get these guys out to to practice a little Tuesday Wednesday Thursday's a half day with opening ceremonies, and then you're right into it. What I really wanted was, I had played that golf course a bunch. I knew how it would be set up.

It was going to be set up just like it was as a French open. I knew how difficult it was. I knew it was a place you had to get the ball and play. I tried to give the guys as much information as I could about the course before we got there. It's just so hard to do that, right? You need that experience of playing and getting around it.

And these guys are real-class players. You know, you give them two practice rounds. They're good. They're able to get it around, but you give them 50 rounds around it, like some of those guys have had, and they know it even a little bit better. And, you know, that's part of it. I think the European side is done a very good job with their venues. And so... That was a home field advantage. That's part of it. I think the European side is done a very good job with their venues.

And so that was a home field advantage. What I mean by that is they have European tour events on the venue. They've had a rider cup. We don't do that in the U.S. We pick kind of major championship venues where most of their teams seem to go, of course, almost as much as we have. And that's a mistake I think we've made over the years. Now, the next away Ryder Cup is in Italy. And I don't think they've yet, it's, it's fallen behind. I think politics for reasons that golf courses and ready, they're supposed to play an Italian open there. They may get one before we play the Ryder Cup. It'll be a good opportunity for us. It won't be as much of a home field advantage.

It'll be a place where maybe a little bit, now will they still set the golf course up to favor their style of play and the guys on their team? Absolutely. And for those folks that say that's not fair, I don't know, man, I kind of like it. I kind of like the fact that, I mean, you can't change anything once Monday morning rolls around. But if we've got a long, you know, wild team and we set the golf course up a little bit more open and we like firm fast greens in the US and they like slow greens in Europe or at least

they're more used to playing on greens that roll 10, 10 and a half than we are, you set it up to where you guys maybe have a slight bit of advantage. That's sports. What can you shine any light on the Patrick Reed situation and how that really unfolded, where he seemed to think that he and Jordan were going to play together, was he ever told that? Why didn't they play together? How did that all unfold and were disappointed in that?

No, I'll say it again. I said it last year and kind of after the Ryder Cup, Patrick was fully aware that he was playing with Tiger. I think the options were there for Jordan. JT was kind of in that same group of players, but JT was going to wheel more around Tiger or more around Jordan. Patrick was going to play with either Jordan or Tiger. Tigers have a tough guy to play with, to be honest with. He's a tough guy to partner with. JT's done a very good job of it, but you go back into history and the guys that have played with him haven't played very well with them, to be honest with you.

And Patrick and Tiger had a very good relationship and passed Rydercups. That was kind of his vice captain, a guy that he enjoyed having Rydercups, Presidentscups. He's a guy that he enjoyed having kind of his hero be his captain and a guy that got him pumped up to play. And he knew going in that he was starting with Tiger and playing, you know, he knew things could change. I'm imagining that a lot of his, you know, being just upset, just being upset about the way we all play, the way things went down, the fact that we lost is, there's a lot of

it, you know, a lot of frustration and, and, but no, I'm going in. I think that absolutely 100%. He knew how that pairing was coming. Have you guys had any communication since all that went down in the Apologies? We haven't talked about the rider cup at all. When I see him, I say hello, say how to Kessler, see how he's doing, but no, say hello. We're polite. We're friendly with each other. It's a side track here for a second just because you mentioned Tigers are hard to play with. You've played with them in team events. Why is he a hard guy to play with? It's hard to step in his shoes.

I mean, you know, it's like living in Michael Jordan shoes for a day. It's, I think it's, you know, when I had Tigers a partner, I loved having the best player in the world as my partner. I mean, there were stuff that shots he hit, things that he did as my partner, that I just got like a sly grin on my face looking at the other two guys going, they're in a chance in hell. you can do that. Like I know you can't do it, you know you can't do it. I can't do it either.

Because I can't either. And you know, and that's my partner by the way. But you also step into that microscope. Like everything he does from the moment he steps on the property, the moment he steps off is scrutinized. I mean, if you want to go on social media and follow his every step, you can do it. His every shot, and everything he does is scrutinized. And so just to be put in it,

none of us really go through that. None of us are the Beatles, you know, and have that wild factor. So I just think there's an added attention, an added pressure, and I think maybe not as much from the outside, I think guys, you all, and added pressure. And I think maybe not as much from the outside. I think guys, you hear it time and time again, where guys say, I know people are putting pressure

on me to play well, but no one can put more pressure on me than myself. And I think they just try so damn hard to because of that situation. And I always kind of thought it'd be cool to play with Tiger and get paired with them. And we played on like eight teams together before Nicholas put us together and Jack put us together I was hurt I was injured and I was kind of

asking I might want to sit me I have a rib injury I'm not playing very well and and he said I need you you're going out with Tiger and I went okay like I got the whole world watching I'm hitting it. I'm in pain and okay, here we go. And so our first match together, I barely helped Tiger for an entire day. The worst he would have been through 16 is one up on his own ball against the team we played in the present cup.

He made me put out on a par five on the back because I had like a four footer and he had like a tap in and he marked it to let me make the four, I was so nervous over the four footer that I'd miss, because he already had a tap in, and then we get to 16, and I've already to 16th hole to win the match three and two, and it was like really the only,

I might have helped him another hole, it depends. And we win the match, and of course, I was teasing the guys, and like at the time, Tigers four ball record was like, oh, and eight, which is pretty much impossible. And I walked into the team room trying to be a little bit of a smart ass and just said, man, I don't really get what's so hard about playing with him in four ball.

I mean, I could have ridden in a cart today. And we were one up through 16. What is wrong with you people? I mean, how can you not win with this guy? And they're throwing shit at me. And you know, giving me a hard time. But I mean, how can you not win with this guy and they're throwing shit at me, and you know, giving me a hard time, but I think just stepping in his shoes for a day, it's, I don't wanna give you

the woe is me, I mean, it's gonna be hard to be yourself. Yeah, but you, you know, like, you can't ask or get all that notoriety and expect there not to be some sort of, I don't know, what the right word is. Just to realize this is a reality. This is a reality situation, is there's just gonna be a lot of attention And most folks just aren't used to getting that.

Now are there, you know, Phil, maybe a little bit, you know, maybe Rory takes a little bit of that or but Tiger's still Tiger. I mean, he's still a one when he steps on the property, everyone else takes one notch down on takes a back seat. Next up, a throwback to the days before we even had microphones or knew how to record an interview. This is episode 56 with Rory in 2016. Honestly, the interview that changed most of our lives, but just chatting with the writer cup. And again, please forgive the audio quality and my terrible interviewing style

from 2016, but Rory, Michael Roy, episode 56. Help me understand this because, and first of all, I love this about the writer cup, but I just, it's an event you guys care about so much. You talk about so much, you can see the emotion in your play and in your reactions. And then afterwards, you have the ability to laugh about it, joke about it, you're, you know, kind of joking with the US team about their celebration. You're leading a USHC chant with the crowd on 18. Like if Patrick Reed beats you on the last hole

at the Masters, you're not laughing it up with them afterwards. But why can the Ryder Cup can you make that transition so quickly and to say, you know, we had a great event that we care a lot about winning but at the end of the day, we're just out there having fun. How is that, how does that, this event gets so much out of you competitively, yet afterwards you can laugh

and smile about it? Yeah, it's a good question. I think the answer for the, you know, about the competitiveness bit is easy because, you know, you're there, you're playing for something bigger than yourself. You know, I think that's the big thing. You know, you're playing for your teammates, you're playing for, you know, your continent, your country.

You know, the captain, the vice captain's in. There's a lot of people that you don't want to let down. So I think that's where the competitiveness comes from, especially, you know, for me anyway. And I struggled with that a little bit with my first two rider cups. I felt the pressure of having to perform for the team. And that made my play a little bit tentative, and I sort of went into my shell a little bit.

And I didn't particularly play my best golf the first two rider cup to my play, but I've grown more comfortable with that rule over the years. And, yeah, you know, it's one of those things. I shale now I'm one of the leaders of the European team and I want to stand up and lead by example. So that's where that competitiveness comes from. But at the end of the day, you know, I think it's, you know, for example, the European press conference afterwards when, you know, Danny made a couple of very funny comments.

We're in good spirits because we are a team. We went there as a team and we lead as a team and we're never going to throw anyone under the bus, we're never going to blame anyone. We all tried our best, we all played our hearts out. At the end of the week it wasn't good enough. I think we're big enough to acknowledge that and say to the US team, they were better that week. But the writer cup, you try your best and it doesn't quite come off and you lose but

you still have a great week. The memories that I'll have from all my writer cups, but especially that one. You know, it's the first one that I've been a part of a losing team, but you know, the memories and the fun that you have along the way. You know, those are the memories that you're gonna have for the rest of your career. Yeah, the press conference afterwards did stick out to me.

Just like, with a stark contrast. I know it's different scenarios, the contrast to the 2014 US press conference to what you guys put forth. It was just, I kind of like, I, the stark contrast, I know it's different scenarios, the contrast to the 2014 US press conference, to what you guys put forth. It was just, I kinda like, I looked at it, and it just kinda made sense to me why you guys win a lot. I mean, there was no, it was just kinda like,

you know what, they had the better team, and we still had fun, and we're still joking with each other. And it just did, I made the joke. I was like, I don't think they know they lost. Like, it didn't really seem like, you guys even like, it didn't seem like it emotionally affected you to have lost. I mean, I'm sure it did.

It's the way you carried yourselves. Yeah, it did. It was weird because it was like, I think for us it was, you know, yeah, of course we lost, but we looked at the US team and we were sort of thinking like, especially the fans, like I was thinking, you know, they're going to be so excited. There came one this thing for the first time and, you know, eight years or whatever it is. But it just, it seemed like once they won the whole place, went sort of quiet. Right.

And it was, it was weird. It was like, you know, and that's why, that's why I was the one that was like, you know, celebrating. I was like, you say, like, go and chant the way you've been chanting for the last three days. Your team's just one. And then all of a sudden they go quiet. I just, I didn't understand.

For me, you know, we didn't understand that we were like, you know, you can't come and chant and shout the way you have for the last three days and not celebrate when you win. That's, I said the same exact thing. I had to, I'm wondering if they just spent too much energy screaming their heads off for the first three days and not celebrate when you win. That's, I said the same exact thing. I'm wondering if they just spent too much energy screaming their heads off for the first three days and where it was, that's what maybe I said. It felt like they were more there to taunt you guys, to yell things at you guys,

than they were to root on the team to victory at the end of the day. It was, I think the 18th whole stadium, it doesn't really set up that great for the fans around the green maybe, that's the only real excuse I can make for. If they had closed it at 16, I think things would have been a little bit different. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Yeah, the 18th wasn't the best amphitheater to celebrate, but I just, I don't know, it was

just, it was just... It was just... It was quite muted at the end, and I was expecting something different, and... I don't know, I mean, it was... You know, I... Yeah, it was strange, because... You know, as I said, at the end of the day, you know... I'm fine with people coming and shouting stuff at me for three days, and whatever.

I tried to take it all my stride And it was good fun that I know that they're just trying to help their team But you know if you're gonna do that for three days at least at least cheer them on when they win So but anyways, it is what it is and You know it was it was a great three days and as I said America our the US team were definitely the the deserved winners and You know hopefully hopefully we can we can get them back in France. Do you how do you feel like the main reaction of the fans has been towards you since then like do you feel like you have more or less fans than you did at the start of that week maybe you haven't gotten the full experience yet just because you haven't played an event in the US since then but how do you feel like the fans from the US I'd walked away

from that, or how have you felt that so far? I think they reacted well to it. Everyone that I've spoken to, they keep saying the same thing. We've never seen you like that before. It was great to see. It was real passion and all that sort of stuff. I think it's been taken quite well. I don't know if that means I've got more left funds than I did.

I think if anything, people might admire or respect my competitiveness a little bit more after that week, I don't know. But, you know, it's been hugely positive, even though we didn't get the win, and I wasn't a part of a winning team. Individually, I've had a lot of compliments, which is nice. Yeah, I'm asking that just because I know in my corner of the internet, and my friends, even if it wasn't possible, even more fans or people love you even more, just because exactly what you said, that competitive spirit, that emotion, and just the playfulness of it too. And like, I don't know, and I'm dying

to ask, like, how in the midst of all that competition, Saturday afternoon round, you take the time and you have to wear-with-all and self-awareness to come up to me in the middle of the round and troll me over the Dustin Johnson Britz Kepke pairing that I wanted, the three-upper one. How does that happen in the middle of the writer cup? I don't know, I think when you get the know me a bit better, that's me. That's me, that's what I do. I am very aware of my surroundings.

So, like, obviously I noticed you following our grip. I knew that there was so many people that wanted this bricks and dust and pairing. I remember saying to And I remember, you know, saying to, I remember saying to Thomas Peters, my partner, I said, just keep hitting it hard and keep hitting it straight because like I swear, the first five holes of that match, it was like a long driving contest.

Like we weren't caring where it was going. We were just trying to edit us hard as we could. And I said, if we can keep hitting it hard and keep hitting it straight, those boys will keep trying to hit it harder and harder and they'll start to go left on them. And that's sort of, that's always been my thing. I feel like if I'm driving it really well and I'm playing with a long hitter and where, you know, there's always that little bit of vehicle where you start to hit it harder and harder. the harder you know the best players in the world hit it the tendency is that it starts to go left

on them and and that's sort of what started to happen and we just tried to go with that game plan and and and it worked but yeah like I you know I I I wanted that much you know and as a fan of golf, it was, you know, it was cool to see Brooks and Dustin and a writer comparing. I think it's awesome. You know, so if I, you know, if I was in position, I wasn't playing in the thing, I would have wanted to go out and watch that match as well. So, you know, I know that I'm a part of a match that people are excited about and people want to watch. And, you know, that's a pretty cool thing for me as well. people are excited about it and people want to watch and you know that's a pretty cool thing for me as well. Would you say overall, well I'd like you to kind of rank some of the things that happened during the week from the crowd and where they fall in the spectrum of like,

I'm fine with this, this is cool and this is like taking it too far. For instance, a lot of people talk about cheering after poor European shots. Where does that fall in the spectrum? What is your reaction to it? What is your teammates' reaction to that? And then some of the examples of some things that you thought just went too far. Where the fans were really crossing the lines. Because I know it did happen, and I'm obviously on the American side.

I definitely think the lines were crossed out there. But what are the main things that you guys think are the issue of the problem that should be dealt with before the next Ryder Cup? Yeah, I think honestly, I have no problem with the funds cheering after the European team, someone in the European team hit a bad shot because that happens in Europe. That's not something that just happens in the US, that's something, you know, like if a, you know, American misses a pot in Europe, of course the car are going to cheer if Europe are going to win the whole. You know, that's going to happen, so I don't think that anyone should have a problem

with that. I think where the problem lies is, and even the, even the taunting and stuff like, even if you're walking up the fairway and someone says, Michael, are you suck or whatever it may be, that's totally fine. But now whenever it starts to get personal, whenever there's like these little personal attacks, it starts to come from the crowd,

that's where it gets a little bit too far, I think. Yeah, what is your lasting memory of the whole week to you you like what is the main thing you take away from that? Not necessarily from a crowd not necessarily from a crowd perspective just your overall from the whole rider cup. I love that I mean I even though we were part of the losing team I think the team camaraderie on our European team this year was the best it's ever been. team this year was the best it's ever been. So I think I had such an enjoyable week. I got to know a lot of the rookies much much better and those rookies will be on our Ryder Cup team again and that's my overriding memories of the week. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. There was a great team spirit, a great team atmosphere and I got to know a lot of the guys much better, which I was really happy about.

And hopefully that will stand the team in good stead moving forward. Let's go back to back with this pre-microphone air. The next one's from Jordan Speed, just a few weeks after we chatted with Rory back in the fall of 2016. A little different to, and then you might hear from him these days,

but just reflecting back on his partnership with Patrick Reed at the 2016 Ryder Cup, as well as telling an awesome Tiger story. I find the dynamic really fascinating, because from an accomplishment standpoint, you're a two-time major champion. You Patrick Reed, while still a top 10 player in the game, just is not accomplished the same things

that you have in your careers. Yet when it comes Ryder Cup time, he is the alpha male in the pairing between the two. You've even referred to how you defer to him to concede whether or not you can see puts and whatnot. What is that dynamic like for you to be kind of in the passenger seat, whereas you are the fifth ranked player in the world at this point, two-time major champion yet, you're kind of deferring to a guy that doesn't even have the same track record as you.

It's just a lot of fun. I know you guys, I know everybody, whether you're an American or European, had fun watching Patrick Reed, even the last two Ryder Cups. I mean, imagine being right by side, listening to the things he was saying as we walked down the fairways I mean it's exactly what you probably expect to you Sam and it makes it even better Yeah, it was an interesting position to be in as kind of a type A personality I think to you know just just be like all right. Let's All right calm down. All right. Get pumped up. You know

You know the guy the guy just guy just wants to be in a position where he feels like his back's against the wall. It's where he plays his best, it's where he brings out his best. It's where he shows the best emotion. I mean, I thought I broke my thumb when I stood on the 17th. I remember this year, Patrick hold it, hold that went to number six, the par five.

When we were playing, I think it was best ball Might have been up to it. I'm not sure but He hold he hold that wedge and I start I threw my tuttor up in the air I started running back to him and he thought we were going for the chest bump and I instead went for their normal high-five I mean he took my hand off. I mean I get on the tee on seven and I instead went for their normal high five. I mean, he took my hand off. I mean, I get on the tee on seven and I grip the club and I bring Michael over like I normally do, just to use the towel to wipe my hands and grip.

And I was like, Mike, this isn't for the towel dude, I literally can't see on my right hand right now. He's like, right, it will just be smooth swing on it. I hope this thing's so far into the water left, Patrick. That's your fault you got this one too It was Man, he just the fire he brings Just the

It's just he's Captain America man in that tournament. I love being his teammate. I love being a part of it It's He In the president's cup last year He, in the President's Cup last year, that partner with Dustin Johnson for a couple rounds in Patrick was so pissed off that we're partnering. And so finally, we're playing in the last evening, Saturday evening, I guess, in Best Ball. We got put back together.

And we had an egg did and shot something ridiculous because he was trying to beat me so bad. He wanted to want to, he didn't give a crap, he was so pissed at me that we were going to DJ. He reminded me every time I saw him even turning that match and then he just went out and made like 67 birdies in the round and we closed them out in the dark. I mean, there's team events are one of a kind. It's where you build relationships with these guys where when you're in a tournament like this with 18 players, everybody's going to be hanging out with everyone the whole week because you've already had those experiences together. I mean, it's amazing for a few years ago.

It was four years ago, I was getting ready for my last finals and now these guys are the people I looked up to so much Are now peers. I mean it's it really is amazing and those team events. Oh, it really brings it out on and off the course mean Instead of instead of sitting there and saying I Brands Antikors got this 20 footer to beat you in this tournament You've never I mean you obviously want to him to be able to make and you to make it on top. But in these events to watch these guys that you kind of are playing against and actually root form and ride them on with them, it's special. You got to, you can't say, like, you can't reference all the things that Reed says walking down the fairway and not give us like one example of just something crazy that he said at the rider cup this year. Uh, that's suitable.

That's, that's, that's repeatable. I don't know. I don't know what kind of words are acceptable here, but um, everything's acceptable on here. Everything's acceptable on here. Um, let's see. Let me try and give you an example here. It's just like the common, like Patrick, look, these guys are in trouble. I walk over because he wants to hit it to a foot every time, and then just kind of pump his chest, you know.

And so, I remember the first time I really recognized him in the Ryder Cup was when we played our first match ever in the Ryder Cup and we played against Ian Polter and Stephen Gallagher in Scotland at Glen Eagles. And we were on, I think it was the fifth hole of par four and we're playing alternate, no we're playing basketball against them. And we're already one up I think early and they are both in big trouble. Gallerars and trouble off the tee, Pulters now hit in the water. I'm a second and I hit it kind of less side of the grain about 30-40 feet. Patrick's last hit and I go Patrick, he's like, what do you like here?

And I'm like, 25 feet left, we win the hole. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going right at the stick. He goes, he goes, I don't want to beat him by one, I want to sump him on this hole. You get the same thing, you get one up on the hole and you move to the next, all of a sudden you're two off. And true now, if he goes at the pan, I think he comes up short a little in the hazard. I've got like a five-foot slider at the time of the hole. I'm like, why are you doing this to me, man? And then the next time he hits it to a foot, so you know, it makes like a, he made like a 22 foot or something on six. So it's just, it's stuff like that where he's just, it's about, it's about sticking, sticking the knife in instead of just, you know,

playing the match for the match. And I think it's just so great. It It just it brings out the best in him. He loves it and when he's on, when he saw it this year, he's single-handedly took down Stinson Rose on that back nine. It was really kind of one of the more amazing performances I've ever seen and fortunate to watch it's right in front of me. I was trying to help him out. Made a few parts but jeez. I mean, what what was I gonna do? I mean the guy just wanted to stay out of his way. You did start the Patrick Reed Chan on 16 as he's coming up for putty's regal so don't you don't say you didn't contribute to that one. I was certainly contributing to it. I was still probably 30 yards away from him but I mean that guy he loves himself a club tour. If he could I mean, that guy, he loves himself a club tour. I love it.

If he could, I mean, right after he strikes out, I mean, I think it was like a three iron or a hybrid or something into that hole. He struck in, he's twirling and doing the walk. And I'm standing with Tiger. I was kinda looking at Tiger. Are you watching this? No.

He's just smirking. I mean, he didn't really know what to say. It was funny. We had a good moment with funny. We had a good moment with Tiger. We had a good moment. It's a funny story. We're playing number six actually. And it might have been the actual same maps where he hold the shot, the West shot. We hit a T ball out there and Tiger were walking with Tiger up to the ball and And we're walking with Tiger up to the ball. And Tiger said something like, I said something like,

Man Tiger, you've never been able to play this good. Yeah, I was just joking with him. Same like, we're playing alternate shot actually. This was a different match. And we've not missed a shot yet. I think Patrick just chipped in the hole before and we're like three up on Sergio and Rafa and I'm like tiger you've never played this good in all time shot in your life He says something like

something something something smart back and and I want to say I can't I wish I wish I could recall exactly how it went right now But something where tiger ghost a Patrick said something back to Tiger Tiger Goes, don't worry, Patrick, you only need 79 more wins and 14 more majors. And then I go, Patrick, you can't talk to him because you can't even talk to me. You need two more majors papers like four more wins it's a me it was something and then of course you know he steps up and it's that kind of talk that gets him going and he I mean he's just going off there right afterwards but it was just kind of it was a funny moment with Tiger talking because you don't really hear Tiger talk about everything he's dropped you know to go back on Patrick and he used it there because he was like, you know, screw this guy.

I'm using this right now. Who is this guy? That is fantastic. So for the record, we've coined what he did on 16 with that twirl. We call it the Reed coil. There you go. I like that. There you go. The Reed coil. So how much say did Reed really have in you guys going back out for that final match? Because what's been reported is that he were the refused to be sat. Were you guys really going to be sat and he's like, Hey, did you want to sit? No, no, no, no, from the get go we were Tiger

Tiger was What he called our you called our team leader and he had told us ahead of time he goes, you guys get off and run and I'll turn a shot, you're playing again. And then we just kind of took care of that. I mean we ended up blowing that lead to them. It just stings me still now that we blew that lead to the Spaniard. But at the time we were four or5 up during the middle of that match. I mean, Tiger came on. I want to say 12 T-Box.

He told us you guys are going back out in the afternoon. I don't know what happened after that. We kind of... It's a bit a little bad after that. But we knew we were going back out. It's a battle a little right after that. But we knew we were going back out. We love the best ball format. We just knew that between us two, whenever we talked to each other, we knew that we could

play our way into playing five matches. And that's, you know, it wasn't about trying to, trying to, you know, with our words tell anybody, it was, we can play our way into five matches. I think Patrick in his own talks with, um, Davis or, or Tiger may have said, you know, I'm definitely playing. I'm, you won't be playing, but I couldn't tell you for sure what we said. We're going to go back to back here first with Francesco Molinari, then right into Tommy Fleetwood, as they both talk about the celebration after the 2018 Ryder Cup as well as their partnership. It was a, you know, this should be a huge party and a lot of drinks and it's a wake obviously with a lot of pressure like we say and then at the end of a week like that you need to unleash the pressure somehow. So it was a big party.

I mean, both teams come together in one room and kind of celebrate together and party together. Is it separated out? I mean, I remember seeing in 2016, I remember seeing pictures of Rory and the US team room kind of celebrating, but did that not happen in France? I've had different experiences this time in France. I mean, I was there until three and I didn't see anyone, but I heard that some of the US players came in after that. But they were to be fighting either. I don't remember seeing that. I was going there, right? Yeah. So I want to hear about the video you and Tommy Fleetwood shot after. When did you guys shoot that? I know it was posted the next day. How did that come together?

Yeah, it was pretty much mid of the party like 2.30 in the morning one of the European tour media guys Which does the idea and we're like yeah sure, but you know, I think we was a bit unfair because we were in conditions We weren't really able to say no to anything. So yeah, I think it was just the three of us that knew about it. Maybe some of the agents heard the idea. So then we decided to go up to the rooms. And I didn't want to go to my room. Tommy didn't want to go to his room.

So we ended up in the European tour media guy Well, tell us what Tommy did also we know the story. I'm gonna make you tell it So we get there and obviously The script was you know you're getting bad and you say this and you say that right so Tommy gets there and gets like fully Native and I told him that. No, I'm not gonna get it back. I'm sorry, man. There needs to be at least some clothing. So yeah, he put the minimum clothing possible arm

and we got him back. So the media guy had to sleep in that bed after Tommy got naked in it. Yeah, he did. I don't know what his side of the story was, but I can tell it. Let's just say he bared it all, if you will. He told us the story. Yeah, it was, I mean, the actual, like, the amount of takes that we actually tried to do that video was like the funniest part, because it was, I mean, Ghiba would have decided that this video, like, we were going to do that video was like the funniest part because it was, I mean,

Ghibo decided that this video, like we were going to do this, that great idea. You know, whatever time I couldn't even put a time on it anymore. I don't know, it was 1am, 2am, midnight, whatever it was. And yeah, when we were up in the room and everyone gave us room and he's like, okay, like you guys getting the bed is what we're going to do. And I was like, okay, like, you the better is what we're gonna do. And he's like, okay, turns around to getting the bed and I just like took everything off. And I'm like, but like, as soon as Fran,

like, so it was just, just a really, really funny time. So we got the giggles at that. And then once we were in, Fran after his had like a drink is so funny and all it took was like, to just look at each other and we just couldn't stop laughing and it was like it took so long to do and they came out really good but from Franz Barry very very funny when he said a drink. He lit up telling that story everyone, at least like to the outside world, he's kind of, you know, even the golf channel teases him for being kind of robotic, but he got the chance to tell that story I saw

aside him, but then I'd never really seen. Oh, good. Good. He's got like, he's got a really English sense of humor as well. And that people probably don't see, but he's got like a very high level of sarcasm, too. Well, you know, that week was obviously incredible for you two. You guys went four and a half. You went up, but you played Tiger three times. Is that sound right? In the match, but in the team portion of it, you know, you've played plenty of times with Tiger in, you know, regular stroke play events. What's it like to go up against him in a rider cup? I think we were lucky that he wasn't at his best for starters, but he still always pulls out like the other shot that he like, come on Tiger. That's, that's not even fair. The Ryder Cup was amazing. I think I still remember getting the draw on in the opening ceremony when the jaw come out and we're playing Tiger and patch it read.

But yeah, that whole week I actually found like I write, I write stuff sometimes and I found the other day rooting through a jaw that was like a piece of paper and it was from that Radikop and it was on the, sorry, it was literally just from Friday and that particular Friday was Frankie's first birthday. So it was a special day anyway. Then I, you know, I'm playing with Fran, he's a really close friend, it's my first ride of Coup. It's in France and I'd wrote down like a couple of things from the day I said it was my son's first birthday. I played in the ride of Coup, my first ride of Coup.

I went to an O and I actually that day we'd be, so there was Tiger, Jordan and JT, who had all been well number one at the time and then there's Patrick really these cats in America and I was like yeah we like we went to an hog as these people like that's really cool. There's certain things that I think yeah you go through in your career or having you play and then you just you do actually just move on from them really you like you don't like

live it out and I'm definitely not going to live on the back of yeah, I had a great time at the Ryder Cup But there are special moments in your career that you do need to appreciate you need to make sure that you remember Yeah, those couple of days like playing that Ryder Cup was so good and I got a lucky experience that for my First Ryder Cup it was at home. It was on a course that I'd played a bunch of times You know, I was playing with you know, Fran was next to me as a really close friend. I, the first t-shirt, which is people's, people describe as like, don't know how they've made contact with the ball. You know, you get to actually don't like that first t-shirt, but look at the eye, it's like,

at the time I had that blue Nike 5-word that I just couldn't miss with. Like, there was a lot of things that went in my favor that week. That I was really, really lucky, I've been at all equal, having such a great experience. Plus, the team play amazing, you're on a winning round of Cook team, it's very, very special. That first T-shirt was cruel for all the people they put around there and gave you a hole that was not driver. I don't know how you guys were finding the club face though. I mean, it's one thing to just step up and pound a driver, but that was not an option on that one. But I was like, it was like, and Fran in his, so, you know, Fran set clubs at the time.

I remember on, there was one of the days it was like the Tuesday the rider company's checked testing his three or that he's topped on the ninth in the practice round. So we played that morning in four balls. He's got a two-in. He was like, yeah, I don't know why this club's in my bag. Like I'd very rarely a good shot with this club. And I think he might have it into like the 17th when he won the open or some minute of great shot. So I was like, I'm sure you've had good shots at the time. He's been not this club. I don't like it at all. So in the four seasons on Friday afternoon, we get on to the first tee,

we have, I mean, we literally have like a 20 minute turn around, get on to the first tee, and France hit in the first tee shots. So I'm just still on the first tee. Anyway, I've got nothing to do. Well, I just stand there and I'm fine. Anyways, discuss with this caddy Pejo. Takes a club out, I was back, turns to me,

shows me the number two, and just gives me this like look with his eyebrows as if I'm meeting this off the first like moments that people don't see. You can't believe that yeah like friends, you know, he's got this two eye and that he hates and is it enough first see at the right cup. It's it's hard enough as it is, but that was funny. Next up is Sergio Garcia. I don't know. Obviously I'm not American American I'm not in there in the team room but as as a European we don't need extra motivation for for RIDICA we love it and but but it did feel like some people were like already given the trophy to the to the US team because, yeah, they longed me wrong, they had a great team, but you know,

but the right cup is different. And once you get there, you know, things happen. And, you know, obviously, the course was, was an ideal for them, which, which was great for us, because we were more comfortable in that kind of course. It's a course that we've, we've all played and we, we felt very familiar with it. So you know there were several things that that were in a favor coming into it and Obviously they showed us as the week went on next up its bones again. It's another interview from the 2016 time period Yeah, there's there's a lot to that and I'll try and keep it short but but the bottom line is you go to these rider cups and, you know, I've been fortunate to go to the last ten or eleven of them.

And they're amazing, amazing events. And, you know, we all want to win the American Golf Public Wants us to win. And we haven't been winning very much, you know. And, you know, certainly in the wake of the 2014 Ryder Cup, you know, ending the way it did in Scotland and ending the way it did at the press conference afterwards, you know, Phil put a lot on his own shoulders and he took, he took, he kind of, you know, ran with the ball and I'm so glad that he did because a lot of things that desperately needed to be changed, got changed and quickly.

And so, you know, going into this year's Ryder Cup, in addition to the fact that we haven't been wanting them, I certainly felt the pressure that Phil had on him, if that makes sense. And so, for him to play the way he did, he played pretty darn well the first two days. And then just to go out there on Sunday and to play that

well under pressure and just to be in a match when you're playing a guy who's literally hitting it 305 yards down the middle of every single fairway and then make that put on 18. I was really happy for him. I was really happy for the team. I was really happy for all the people that have been you know come up to us to us and say, geez, can we just win a Ryder Cup, you know? And things along this line. So there was a lot that went into that week and that moment. Yeah, I found that very refreshing as a fan just because I know that obviously Cattin for Phil, somebody who's made the second most money of all time on the PGA tour, I would imagine, your monetary benefits of being a caddy are kind of settled at least, and I think there's a lot more art to your

craft, if I may say, and that you are invested in his success more than more so than just from a financial perspective, obviously. So I find that the caddy's excitement level about the Ryder Cup and interest in the Ryder Cup so fascinating. And I remember reading somewhere where you said before you even had Cady for Phil, it kind of weighed into your decision to move from, I think, Curtis Strangest bag to his bag was, you had a goal of Cadying in the rider cup and you saw Phil as your ticket into Cady for the rider cup. And am I remembering that right first of all? Oh yeah, that's exactly right. I was actually working for Scott Simpson's time, but certainly working for Curtis a little bit too on he had a rotation the guys at the time but you're a hundred percent right by you know and listen you know as you know the caddy turnover

rate is incredible so I'm thinking well if I go to work for Phil Meccleson here I have this opportunity but boy I hope I can hang in there for a year or two because you know statistically you're just not going to last that long. And they've always said that you never want to be a great player's first caddy because typically they're always going to make a change at some point. You know, I'm fine somebody else out there. They'd rather work with, but yeah, my thinking at the time was my gosh, I don't know how long I'm going to caddy and keep my head above water out here. So my only goal as a caddy is to caddy in one rider cup and and the entire decision, you know, to a large degree went into that. Did it meet the hype once you finally got to do it and now you've done it 10 times, is it, uh, it does it still,

does it still give you the same kind of feeling? Even more so. I mean, I don't know what it is. I mean, you know, it's just the most amazing experience that I think, you know, Phil and probably other guys have said it in interviews that, you know, as you get to a certain point in your career, it's like these team events mean as much to you as anything, just because there's so much fun, there's so much kind of bond and you have relationships with these guys. You really would know the wise do for the most part. I mean, you see a side of folks that you aren't going to see, you know, in a good way,

and it's just incredible. And I mean, this year, with the whole tiger thing, and tiger just taking the leadership role that he did. And obviously, what went on with Bubba? And I know the whole Bubba Ted thing that when it turned out that Bubba was going to be an assistant captain on the team and he was up there and that was great. I admired him very much for doing it, but as caddies, we were like, well, where's Ted, you know what I mean? So, you know, they got Ted on the next plane up there and and and they were a big

part of it. So that there was just a lock to this rider cup. How many more if you're to place a bet on it now and how many more rider cups do you think Phil has in him? Well, I tell you what, if you ask him about being a captain, he does not want to have that conversation right now. Do you know what I mean? I don't. You mean because he refuses to, you know, acknowledge that he's not going to be on, you know, the next team or the team after that. And I love it about him. And I hope it works out exactly the way he wants it to. So my gosh, more than multiple is the answer to that. It'd be Paris, Wisconsin, Rome, whatever.

And obviously there's that right-of-couple lurking at Beth Page there in about 24. And he's got those ties to that community and to that golf course and that would be super cool. But right now he is all about playing and does he want to hear about it. So my dream of him being a playing captain in 24 is still alive. It's like you're telling me. It's definitely alive.

Yes, yes. That's like my number one golf goal I think to see is, it filled be a play captain send himself out first I can't wait for it. Next up is Zinger talking about his captaincy. If the PJ of America really wants to win and maybe the win was strict, they need to get rid of that attitude that there's more captains than there are rider cups. That, I would have loved to have done several rider cups. Instead of 18 or 19 living captains, I think it would have been great, you know, if there was 11 living captains.

Maybe I would have never been a captain because the captains before me would have captained for a few years. But the attitude of the PGA of America has always been more, we just want to give you the honor of being the captain and also the punishment of what that did for how you're going to be remembered because you got your butt handed to you. Well, how important is it, and I realize I'm asking a former player in this regard, but how important is it, how necessary is it for a player to be the captain of the Ryder Cup team?

Oh, you're thinking like bringing... That's an open-ended question. I'm just saying, why does that have to be played? Baseball for players. Yeah, you're right, it doesn't. But it should, you know, anybody could do it, I suppose. Ken Venturi, captain of the president's Cup team, and he didn't know what clubs, players were using all that.

He knew how golf worked, and he knows how personalities work. I think he knew that. I think you'll never go outside of the players being the captains. I think the one rule that needed to go away all together was the idea that you had to have won a major to be a rider cup captain is stupid and

Yeah, it's amazing when you hear people talk about the reasons why people get selected and that oh he's got all this You got so much experience like oh, yeah, he's a PGA champion. He was a gutty player. He's a gutty rider guy He's a good match player. I'm just like I don't think think that's the reason, like some of the teams that have won, I don't think it's because the player won a major 20 years before prior to that. I mean, so that's where, and I know you've got, we've talked, we've talked, we've talked, oh, wait with you, I know,

and I know we've talked about the philosophy behind that team you built, but how did you win the captaincy? How did you become the captain, and how did you present that strategy. I, at the right age at the right time, I was really a pretty lucky rider cup player. I got great pairings. You could have, I could have had obscure rider cups, but because you know you hand in the envelope, the Europe hands in and envelope, we hand in it.

I'm open them up and you see what sequence of order they'll go. You're not looking for matches, but I always played all their best players. I suppose I could say I was really unlucky. I drew all their best players, but it made more marquee opportunity for me, and I played really well against Sevy and Jose, and I chipped back and I beat Fowloun Wuzdom, but to draw Fowloun Wuzdom they'd never been beaten. It's hard luck, but it was great, great opportunity. So I had that reputation as a Ryder Cup player. Then I won the PGA Championship. I got sick after that, but I had endeared myself to them a little bit. So I got offered the opportunity to Captain in 06 after pain had passed, and I really didn't want

to do that. I just didn't. And I also wanted to be the captain in a matter. I was going to say, you just wanted a homeline. I did want to be, yeah, that was, you know, Dave Stockton called me and said, don't do it. So it was promised to me, oh, wait, I'd 48 years old. They got slaughtered, you know, six, and oh, four, bossed by nine points, never been, never happened before.

Two times in a row, just wiped out. And who was a captain? Oh, sick. Layman was the captain. He had other guys. Cory was in there, but Cory apparently was going to be all of a sudden he must have been in their lobby and or something because I got a call from a past president of the PJ of America, said, Zinger. You still want to be the captain for a8? I said, yeah, I thought I was, I thought that was the case, he goes on, it's getting ready, you're getting ready to lose it. So I had to call the PGA of America and I talked to the President of the PGA of America at the time Roger Warren and I lobbied and I lobbied my idea, which was to take a large group of twelve and break them into three small groups of four and then the which was to take a large group of 12 and break them into three small groups of four.

And then the idea was to put them together. I didn't actually have this at the time, but to put them together by like personalities. But I just told them that I wanted to take that Navy SEALs concept of team building. Turns out Roger Warren was an ex-basketball coach and he loved it and embraced it. And I ended up getting it, but I had to lob before. It was promised to me and I had to lob before. That's kind of the disconnect between the tour and the PJ of America too. So a real example of how much turnover and change

there can be. But I really believe if the PJ of America wants to win these rider cups now, or winning is what matters. European tour owns their rider cup. The PJ of America owns are not the PJ tour.. And I would just make Tiger all time captain. I like that idea. Here's another one from Hunter Mayhann talking about the 2010 Ryder Cup. So let's go the 2010 Ryder Cup and we're not going to zoom straight to the end. I think

everything from that week can kind of get dumbed down into how it ended. But what was that week like? You know, a lot of, I really, weirdly enjoy going back and watching the highlights from that, not to see the lavender sweaters or whatever those were. But I mean, it was a wild week, whether wise, starts and stops, just pure delays. They changed the whole format of the event, mid event, and you finish on a Monday.

What do you remember about all that? Yeah, chaos. It felt a little bit like chaos. Yeah, there was no, there was no flow to the week at all, right? The weather was so rough. I remember, gosh, remember the start, like it was just pouring down rain. And it was like, what do we do? Like this is just a disaster. This is no energy of what you think of a rider cup is going to be like. It was a pretty cool course, but it was, you know, it was just a mess. It just felt chaotic all week, and it was hard to get a hold of what we were doing. The course was just completely soaked.

I felt like we played it up all week. It was just kind of wild. It just, it definitely didn't have a great flow to it. So it was just kind of wild. It just, it definitely didn't have a great flow to it. So it was just kind of challenging that way. And so when singles pairings come out, do you, how do you end up in the spot that you're in? Do you know immediately like, hey, this could come down to me? When did you start to realize that things were kind of bubbling up to potentially come down to, you know, your match being the deciding match? And then I want to set the scene for how we get to the very end as well. But before we get there, you know, how did you, how did you end up in that spot?

I can't say I remember how, I just remember that we were down and we needed to front load the team. And we really needed a lot of points early because it could get away from us. The first probably six or eight matches. I don't know. I think I was maybe second to last. Not I definitely wasn't last, but somewhere around there. And so it was really strange playing because everybody was already like all the fans are out there. There's like not many people really following us because everyone's watching, you know, the big names or whatever, but even even then like the match, you don't really know when the match is or whatever, but even even then like the match, you don't really

know when the match is going to end and how things are going to turn out. And so it was, you're just kind of playing and not what we were by ourselves, but it was, it was not a whole lot of like fanfare. You were just sort of in the background for a really long time. And then all of a sudden it was like bang, here it is. You looked at the scoreboard and it's coming down to this match. You were out last. You were the 12th. The 12th. I was. I pulled out. You and you and G Mac were 12th. And so, I think this is extremely important.

And almost, I'm wondering if you think this is lost to history that, you know, when you guys get to the 17th hole, you needed to win the last two holes. You know, it wasn't. Yeah. It would, I would say we're looking 17th hole, you needed to win the last two holes, you know? It wasn't, yeah. I would say we're looking at maybe a 15% probability here at the highest. I didn't do the math on that, but that's my estimation. I just want that noted, because I feel like, I guess, do you feel like that part gets lost to history?

And I know it doesn't make what happened after that probably any easier, but, does that, does that, you know, do you take any solace in that to say, like, you were battling an uphill climb at that moment to begin with? Yeah. I remember he made a great birdie on 16. Right. 16 was a pretty good challenging hole.

And, um, G. Mac, the, you know, the gamer and the putter that he is rolled in a beautiful pod. I remember it crept in on the low end. Like it could have gone the other way. Yeah. It was, um, it was a good, it was good. I knew I was in trouble at that point. So, yeah, we were not, we were not in good position at going into 17 for sure.

It's not, I remember getting a ton of texts from people, you know, A'singer texted me right after that ad and Peter and Jake some people I knew and they were like, hey, this happens to you because you've got big shoulders and you can take it. What you forget is that being in that situation means you did something right and you did something right for a long time. So I felt proud. I love it was so great to be in that. It was so fun even though as emotionally draining it was and as hard as it was G-Mac is such a gentleman. I have so much love for that guy and so much respect for him To go in a battle with him in that situation was was a lot of fun

and You know, it was it was a sad moment and it was tough, but I was playing the President's Cup and the Ryder Cup in front of millions of people. That's pretty cool. That's not an experience that, you know, losing something doesn't mean you lost. It just means it wasn't your day.

And, yeah, I don't know. I just felt, like I said, you put so much work into that to leave upset or sad about it would be of complete. It would be missing the point. Did you feel like you how do you feel like you were treated after that? Did you feel like most people under we're understanding in terms of golf fans? I'm sure your peers were, you know, obviously understanding. I just look at that image before you hit that chip of all those people on that hill.

You're the only match out there and a pressure that you cannot simulate in anything that you do ever in your life. And I'm just wondering kind of what you, if you felt more support or blame after that from golf fans or whatnot and how you dealt with all that. It sounds like it sounds like very well from what you just said, but I wonder what you remember feeling

in those moments. No, I think there's always gonna be a small percentage of people who can't wait to. I'm just gonna Twitter wasn't around and social media wasn't around as prevalent back then, but no, I think everyone, I know the team. Yes, I remember getting into the locker room and I'm just like, it's so heavy, that, that, that, that week is, is, I remember Jeff Olgovy said,

about playing the president's cup, he said, it's the most fun you're gonna, I ever gonna have, until you realize you're gonna lose. And then he said, it, then it just gets so heavy on, you're like, oh crap, we lost. And so those weeks are so fun on you're like, oh crap, we lost. And so those weeks are so fun. You're amongst the best players in the world and when you lose and lose in such a dramatic way, it's so heavy. It felt like it's just like an avalanche. But the guys on the team were so great and they, you know, everyone who came up to me afterwards and it was like, hey, we lost, we came here as a team, we lost as a team, this is not something, this is not a burden you carry around. So, you know, and I think guys always took so much

offense to the fact that Europe was a better team than us and we never really joined up together and it was, that bothered us and it was than us. And we never really joined up together. And it was that bothered us. And it was so ridiculous. We were just as much a unit as they were. And we bonded so incredibly well that week. That it's it. I never felt like any shame or anything other. Because I think people know that it's a game and it's, you know, it goes your way and sometimes it doesn't. And not only that, after it happens, you are, the wound is so incredibly fresh and you're asked to go up, you know, and face the media and discuss what just happened. And I remember, I remember watching that, and I don't know how you look back on that moment, but as a sports fan, I remember just being like,

honestly, everything about this moment is what I love about golf and sports. Like that, you know, that this person had to be asked this question and put on this world stage and it didn't go his way. And it means a ton to him for it to not gone his way. And he is showing that in front of the world. And I, did you feel that sentiment from a lot of people that, you know, obviously it's a, I don't know, what do you feel that sentiment from a lot of people that, you know, obviously it's a, I don't know, what do you feel when you go back or whenever you see highlights or think about

that moment of having to kind of display that emotion in front of the world? Yeah, I think the courage you, you know, you have to do the, the courage you have to show and play golf for a living and do anything in front of people and expose yourself and be vulnerable like that is really challenging. Not a lot of people want to be exposed like that. And it was very humbling for me to be a part of that. And those are the moments that make you stronger, right? It might be a cliche, but it's so true when you get under a like that in a way, it does make you stronger and it does make you realize how great it was. And like I said, you work so hard to be a part of that team and to have a great, to have a struggle and a fight and a great

to compete against a great, a bunch of great players. You can't leave there being feeling sad or sorry for yourself because that's just missing the point. And you can't let it define you either, which you definitely. No, no, no, no, you know, it's, you can't, you can't, yeah, now you can't be a part of, you can't be a part of something like that and think that was a bad thing, right? That's where you want to be. That's an opportunity to have great success.

You're going to have to risk failure. If you never really put it out there, then you have nowhere to fall. But it was all, I just enjoyed the team event so much. As everyone says, once you become part of one, you wanna become a part of all of them, just cause it's so fun to be in a group like that. And for that many days that you are one event, one common goal and it's just so much fun.

Well, Pro Golf is lonely and team golf is the opposite of lonely. It's the one time where you are you're on the same team as a lot of people. That's obvious, but you know, you're all together on the same mission. Whereas, you know, you play a major championship and you're out there with your buddies in that major championship, but when you all go separate ways that night and you're all going out trying to accomplish different goals the next day. So to get the the one week a year that you get a totally different goal and you know energy around it, there's a reason why guys rave about it so much. I would have to imagine. It's so fun. It's so cool. It's it's a throwback to being in college and it's not being

thinking about yourself. You know, you're really thinking about each other and having a common goal. It's really cool. Last but not least, a clip from David Faraday, his episode 70, again, way back in the day in 2016. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in and we can't wait to go launch it next week. Well, I think that was one of the years that really changed it dramatically.

It was the year of the Gulf War and it was tremendous pro-American sentiment in the crowd and we had the European crowd there that were with the Ole, Ole, Ole, Ole, Ole, which was just the most mindless anthem the world has ever heard. I love the lyric. But that sort of part is and feeling off you know behind the ropes uh... that was for sure but you know on the golf course it was it's always been entirely different you know the players uh... uh... they adore the writer cup there's something so special about it and uh... that this is one that caught the attention of the american public it came down

to the last putt and the last green in the last match with Bernhard Langer and Hale Irwin. And I think it really sort of teed up the writer cup for the next 20 or 25 years to this point where it's arguably the most important golf event of every two years. It's certainly the most watchable and the most important golf event of every two years. It's certainly the most watchable and the most magnetic. It's about, you know, players going out there and playing for the reason that they started playing the golf. They just love the game and you can't make the comparison between that and war, but when kids go to fight, you know, for the United States, it's not the United States that and war, but when kids go to fight, you know, for the United States,

it's not the United States that's in their mind. It's the guy to the right and the guy to the left of them. You know, and that's the right or cup as well. You really care about what your teammates think, and it's really the only opportunity of the year to feel that way, because as your ball, as your game, and it's a selfish game of this one particular moment. as your ball, as your game, and it's a selfish game other than this one particular moment. Give it a right club. Be the right club today. That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? Better than most.