No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 478: Bones and Jamie Kennedy

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Before we get too deep into the breakdowns of Team USA and Team Europe, MAX HOMA WON AGAIN! Congrats to Max as we listen back to a great segment from his 2018 appearance on the pod shortly after he earned his way back to the PGA Tour. After that, Ryder Cup week is officially here and we call in Jim "Bones" Mackay and Jamie Kennedy for their thoughts on the upcoming matches at Whistling Straits.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Laying Podcast. It is victory Sunday yet again. Full disclosure, gotta be honest, we did not have a Fortinet recap scheduled for this week for a variety of reasons.

You'd one of them, of course, being we are rolling straight into the Ry rider cup. We are pre-recorded with bones and Jamie Kennedy, which you were going to hear from shortly. Did not budget max winning the Ford net. That was about the only thing that could have happened this past week for us to have really been caught with our pants down. But here we are. Moral Matt and just one second, there was also a return to Portland for the LPGA this past week. A rain shortening event, unfortunately, a 54-hole event, but a notable Cala performance early on the event came from 57-year-old Dame Laura Davies. Listen, we requested this copy because we wanted

to bring up that big Randy and I actually got to play pool with Dame Laura Davies after the Europe won the Soulheim Cup. Listen, I'm not going to say who won, but there might be a reason we bring it up. It may be the proudest accomplishment of big randies career was sinking the final winning shot against the 57 year old Dame who made the cut this week. We just wanted to give her a shout out very hilly, difficult layout. She's got an epic max LS driver, epic speed fairway wood. The same Odyssey White Hot OG Rossi putter that rom and onica won majors with this year and a chrome soft X golf ball

So go on forward keep an eye out on Dame Laura Davies She's gonna be doing commentary at this coming week for Sky for the Ryder Cup hoping to catch up with her up there Along with other Callaway LPJ staffers including young hitter Madeline Sagsstrom Carlota, Segonda, Georgia Hall Jungly six among many others as we always say looking at the LPGA game the clubs they use It's probably a better model for most male say, looking at the LPGA game, the clubs they use, it's probably a better model for most male players than looking at the men's professional game. So just something to think about.

I'm gonna turn it over shortly here to our conversation with bones. We're gonna get Max on here in the coming weeks to chat about his third PGA tour win. Before we get into that, we're gonna place the modio from Max's second podcast, visiting he did with us back in 2018, when he had just wrapped up his tour card.

I go back and listen to this. I've mentioned this before, probably each time he's won, I go back and listen to this clip just to remind him. Anytime I'm playing bad to really understand what perseverance, you know, through adversity, looks like at the highest level, a guy that had lost his game to an extent

that you probably don't have full appreciation for, played an entire season on the PGA tour and earned three FedEx cut points, and was supposed to be this, like the dude that he is now was who he was supposed to be and trying to get his way through early career struggles is was definitely not easy. I think he made either four or five consecutive birdies to finish out one of his rounds in the web tour finals back in the day to get his tour card even comes back. Windswell's Fargo.

Winds that rid of this past year and now wins his third event. The Fortinet Firm and Fask off course in California, proper ball striking rewarded. Accordingly, and he's your winner. Congratulations to Max. We are obviously super excited for him. And I didn't expect to get caught up in PGA tour golf this past weekend heading into my favorite event of the year, which you can't you can probably tell I'm quite hyped for. Also shout to Matt Bignelli, double bogey on 17 was not what we were looking for, but

bounced back with an eagle on 18 to get a solo second. He talked a lot on the pod back in March about how shots on the PGA Tour aren't out linear and how he tries his best to get the most out of his good golf because you can get so much more exponential reward for that than just grinding out a shot to make a cut or whatnot. He continues to get a lot out of his good weeks and it looked either really thought he was going to win today but a win is coming in the very near future for Mad McHale. Pulling for him, pulling for Max, no matter what there would be no losers tonight. Before we get into bones again, here's the clip from 2018 from Max talking about his battle through adversity

and whatnot and gosh, it's the best. You can, I've listened to this 10 or 15 times and I'll still every time it comes up, we'll listen back to it. So enjoy. I don't like to get serious about a lot of things, but what I was, I was so proud of myself that year and obviously going into this year but that year

because I would leave Thursday, I'd shoot a bazillion and go to the range Friday I shoot a bazillion, Mystica go to the range and I had actually changed back to my my coach I had in college and who I'm with right now less Johnson and we you know he was awesome. I call him every day and be like, hey like this is what happened today and we didn't have all bad days. I remember the John Deere and the Greenbrier actually led the field in total driving for the first two days, not all four days because I didn't get to play those two.

But the first two days, and you know, that even was a mental struggle because I'm like, gosh, if like the one thing I think I'm terrible at, I'm the best at this week. I still miss it, but it was just becoming way too much, like too much pressure on myself to do everything great. You know, obviously like completely just like giving up on practicing my wedges and my short game and putting because it's like if I can't get the ball and play, what's the

point? Chipping for six isn't really like that big of a deal. So, but I'd have weeks where it was just, you know, I would just be like, okay, I'm going to miss a cup, but I'm going to grind as hard as I can in every single day. Every single day I'm going to learn one new thing about it and just be so freaking prepared for when it comes around. And I posted it on my Twitter after I think I got my card, but I found this quote that Kobe had in his locker. I think you got from Papa Vitch. It was about the stone cutter.. It says, you know, like a stone cutter is chopping away at a big boulder.

And he swings at it, you know, one time, two times, three times, a hundred times without like a dent being made in it. And on the 101st time, it completely breaks apart. And it says, a wise man knows it was not the 101st blow that it was the 100 that came before it. And I was like, this is me right now. Like, this is how I'm going to like leave my mark

on this game. And this is how I'm getting back. And I got, I got, I was fortunate to have a career in general like that I've made a good amount of money where it wasn't like a massive financial. Like it wasn't on my brain like that I was just like siphoning off money. But you know, it obviously wasn't great,

but I was able to be like, okay, like, if this takes four years, it takes four years, but we're starting right now, and I'm not going to waste a day or an hour or a minute, not trying to get better, and it actually taught me to get my attitude to be so much more positive, because I realized that if you're playing that bad, and you're also thinking negatively,

like they don't go together. So I had to lie to myself and just be like, today's the day, dude, like today's the day, we go shoot 65 and everything kind of breaks apart. And like this starts to go the right direction. And every time I thought I hit rock bottom, I found it a shovel and dug a little deeper. And it was shocking. I would come off golf courses and just like in shambles, like mentally, and just be like, man, like, maybe I'm not supposed to do this. And then, you know, I'd be like, all right, wake up in the morning, going to practice.

And I'm very, very proud of myself for doing that. It was hard and it makes this year feel like, I haven't felt what I felt when I got my car back in Canterbury and Cleveland a couple of weeks ago, because I have an unbelievable group of friends that supported me and never, you know, like, you know, you lose a lot of people when you do this. Like, I got a lot less text messages, you know, like, you know, you lose, you lose a lot of people when you do this. I got a lot less text messages, you know, obviously when you're playing bad about hanging out,

but my friends stuck by me and it was cool to get texts from certain people and then be like, man, like, I know what you just did. And like, that was impressive. And I was like, for the first time, I was like, I agree. Like this one was cool. Because Embarrassed, it's one thing to be bad at your job or to struggle. It's really hard to, like, legitimately be embarrassed to be out there. I'm playing its Tiger Woods in Phil Mickelson in Rory McRoy and I'm like shooting 80

and I'm losing, I thought I think one term I lost in two rounds, 14 shots to the field in total driving. It's just like, what are you doing out here, dude? And I know you down on better than this, but you just think you get stuck in this rut and glad it obviously turned. I just wanted to leave a mark of resiliency. And I thought that that would be who I am. Some people are great hitting a seven iron, some people are great at putting.

I'm gonna be like the toughest guy you've ever met. And that's in my head how I kinda tried to spin it. We're gonna turn it over to the conversation with bones and then on the back half with from the European side Jamie Kennedy from golf TV, but up first, here's bones. All right, bones. I'm going to start you with this one. What happened in France?

You came on, you helped us preview before 2018. You explained a lot of what may happen. I didn't listen very closely, but in total hindsight, what happened in France? Well, I will say that when I got there and I walked out and looked at the golf course for the first time, I was probably as taken aback as I've ever been in my PGA tour life in terms of the setup. I could not believe how narrow the fairies were and how difficult or unplayable in a sense the rough was.

Now certainly the Europeans, because they were hosting that event, they have the say so in terms of the setup. And those guys, their players, obviously knew this was coming. And I'm sure to a large degree with the work and the data that Bjorn had looked into, they realized that narrow fairways and, and hellacious rough was going to be good for their cause. That was an absolute grand slam home run because I remember thinking almost right away, uh oh, we could be in a little bit of trouble here. And it worked out perfectly. And of course, our guys got completely out of play in addition to all of that. But there's just so many little back stories and little things, if you will, that influence these Ryder cups and course setup and familiarity is certainly

one of them for sure. Well, and that was a little question I had ready for you was, you know, how much can a course set up play a role in the final result? But what explain? I think I understand it, but I don't think I'm very good at explaining why that kind of set up. Why does that favor the Europeans?

Like, why were they able to play it? That's so well. And why did the Americans have so much trouble with it? Well, certainly, as I said, because I favor the Europeans? Like, why were they able to play it? That's so well and why did the Americans have so much trouble with it? Well, certainly, as I said, because I think the Europeans know it's coming. They certainly weren't surprised when they got out of the car. But I also think that when you combine the fact that the Europeans are very smart, they only have Ryder cups on golf courses that host their European tour events. And we basically almost never do.

So when Rory McAroy gets to Whistling straights next week, he will have seen that golf course as much over the years as Dustin Johnson. So I just think that knowing that it's coming, and of course I'm sure the data, if you will, showed that they were a straighter team off the tee. You know, there are equipment setups. What have you? It's just, it just plays into how you feel about yourself.

And ultimately, to some degree, the results. And, you know, we, when the US one last in 2016, in Minneapolis, they're at Hazel team, there were some very upset guys on the other side, on the European side, about the setup. They were calling, you know, some of the whole locations, pro-ampins, and there wasn't enough rough in this and that. guys on the other side, on the European side about the setup. They were calling some of the whole locations, pro-amp pins, and there wasn't enough rough, and this and that, and again, that was our team,

or Davis Levin, that particular sense, who was in charge of the setup, saying, this is what's best for those guys, and on both occasions, in those two ride-acups, it worked out perfectly. So if I'm, I was riding super high, going into 2018, I kind of downplayed the importance of course fit. And I can't quite figure out where I net out in terms of my excitement for the US side

coming into 2021 because one part of me is saying, look, they've ran this playbook at Hazelteam. They won by five. It was, you know, not really that close. They're going to run back this same playbook with maybe an even stronger team. Gosh, it should really make sense for them, but I also can't really shake how much I underestimated the course influence and the setup and everything that happened and how the Europeans played in 2018. So either talk me up or talk me off a ledge in terms of what to expect from the American side

and out of whistling straights. I've never gotten into a Ryder Cup as a golf fan being concerned about so many things relative to the American side. Are they a significant favorite? Sure, but then again, I'm not sure you want to be the favorite in any Ryder Cup. It just doesn't do you any good. There's just so much going on. I'd love to know more about Colin Moore, Kawa.

How is he feeling? How has his swing been affected by these back issues that he's apparently had? You know, even today, there was new things coming out about Brooks Kefka and not so much about his health, but about his attitudes towards the Ryder Cup. You know, how is Brooks feeling? It's just crazy what's going on. And even the one thing that will help the Americans that's happened here of late is it looks like the weather is going to be relatively good. It looks like it could be around 70, 65 or 70. That's a really good thing for the Americans. I feel a couple of years ago on the tournament dates, I think it was in the 40s

and very windy. We're going to have weather along those lines. I'd be very concerned about how that might affect the Americans' chances. So again, I love what the Americans have going on. I thought the picks were fantastic, but Steve Stricker probably knows way better than I do. What's going on with Brooks and Colin, and those are two very important guys in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, gosh, you didn't even get to Bryson, whose hands are wrecked from him training for long drive competitions after the rider cut.

I mean, you just can't make it up, can you? I know. Those were obviously his words and sure, I get he's on some driving range somewhere, just hammering drivers. And I guess that's what he wants to do. And he's going to go straight from the ride or cut to participate in this national long drive thing.

It's just, you know, all I can say is there's a large percentage of guys, you know, it was 100% back in my day that absolutely lived and worshiped, you know, the chance to play in a Ryder Cup. I'm not sure if it's 100% anymore, but I know that there are guys out there, I would guess one of them being a guy like Billy Horser, that would dearly love to be there next week,

representing their country and their tour and his peers playing for the good old red, white and blue. So, you know, it's a different time. I have some question marks just the what's going on and what's being done and what's being said in terms of the dishambo thing you mentioned and some other things and I'm a little puzzled myself. Well, what do you make of Kevka's comments? You know, they they were circulating pretty heavily this past week on social media and social media is pretty tough place to digest all those things. And, you know, quotes like that written down can maybe sound a lot worse than they may have sounded coming out of his mouth. But it seemed to me to be very symbolic of the overall US attitude that I think a lot of people, how a lot of people perceive the US attitude to be very symbolic of the overall US attitude

that I think a lot of people, how a lot of people perceive the US attitude to be over the last 20 plus years of like, hey, what's my role? I did my part, I played my golf in this and I wanna get into a little deeper conversation as to how that relates to maybe how the Europeans approached this at all as well.

But a long wind away of me asking, what are your overall takeaways when you saw those comments? To me, it's hard to second guess the success that Brooks has had because quite obviously he's old school in the sense that he cares only about his performance in majors. You know, he said that through the record, his performance at regular tour events kind of speaks for it. And the guy went out on one three or four You know almost right away if you will when he said on Saturday night of

The US Open air at Chinatown Nobody is more confident on the golf course than me and then went out the next day Perform got it done made late birdies and won the US open. I thought to myself. Wow Hats off. That is an incredibly studly thing to do in terms of the way he went about you know talking to talk and walking the walk. Now how that relates to the writer cup, you know, I just don't know. I mean, this thing that you've had with some other guys, not Brooks, where, you know, after losing writer cup, they're trying to say, hey, you know, I played Bestball with so

and so yesterday and I made five birdies and he made two. So, you know, I just get much help and I played way better. I mean, that's a killer for team morale and for what goes on out there and for that ever important climate in the team room. So I just think that, and I'm not necessarily talking about Brooks specifically, but if there are guys, there aren't in a sense living and dying with this result next week, but if there are guys, there aren't, in a sense, living and dying

with this result next week, then they, I think, have to ask themselves some pretty serious questions about doing it again in the future, or what's important to them in terms of the Ryder Cup and representing their country. So, again, it's puzzling to me. I've certainly been on a part of these, you know, from a caddy standpoint, some of these teams

and you see guys in the locker-room on a part of these, you know, from a caddy standpoint, some of these teams and you see guys in the locker room on Sundays of a loss and they're in tears and they're despondent. And I get it because, you know, it means so much to so many people, but I guess these are different times now and maybe some guys aren't as fired up to necessarily play in the Olympics

or to play in the Ryder Cup. And I guess that's something that we're going to have to adjust ourselves to. Well, I want to throw something at you here. And you know, part of what I love about getting the interview guys like you is, you know, we throw a lot of dumb stuff around on this podcast, but I get to test out some of my thoughts and theories on things. And you could tell me if I'm off or are, you know, kind of on the mark with this, but we do the Soulheim Cup this year.

And of course, that's a different event than the Ryder Cup. But for the first time, I felt like I really got to see up close and personal and even like feel at times the difference in camaraderie between the two teams and how that affected play. And I think it's an important, you know, translation of this as well as the morale of things and how that affects the way you play, you know, when you come under pressure. And for the Europeans for lack of a better phrase, they weren't afraid to, you know, look and act silly, you know, running on the greens, dumping water on each other after after the win cheering on teammates, jumping up and down on the green after the win. And I saw some images today of John Rom being the same thing in a celebration after France, which is, you know, he's obviously

one of their top stars. And I couldn't help but think back to the lack of the celebration on the US side. Even after winning in 2016, and you know, Rory had to go up to guys and say like, come on, I know you guys forget how to celebrate. And it just like washed over me, this feeling of like the US's inability to sell themselves out to this team concept, even in victory. And it just, like, it's really started to crystallize, you know, seeing, you know, kind of,

as I processed all this, what's your reaction to all of that? Well, to your point, you cannot overstate the importance of the team room and the camaraderie, as you say, and just the climate of things, you know, I'm frustrated that we, in terms of the US, haven't done more in terms of performance at the

Ryder cups and how they've done over the years. And I say, we, I'm a guy sitting in my house right now, and I'll of course be completely impartial next week when I'm there covering a friend BC. But you know, I'm talking about myself as a caddy and the 11 or 12 that I went to in that particular role. You know, people say to me all the time, you know, oh my gosh, that's a bunch of BS. It's just whoever plays best, just get out there and ignore all the stuff and just play. And it's just not that simple. And that, again, is where the task force came from. People can make as much fun of the task force as they want, but the reality was that it was so glaringly obvious that we were getting outthought and outdone

with some of these decisions. And it's some of these decisions basically relate to what you're talking about, the camaraderie, the pairings, the this, the that. And so it's hugely, hugely important. I think that what you're talking about and what I'm trying to talk about played into, the fact that Patrick Reid didn't get picked

just based on what went on in France and how disrespectful it seemed that he was in terms of talking publicly about his playing with Tiger in a couple of the sessions. So it's absolutely massive. That's why why of course this Bryson and Brooks thing I'm sure was addressed weeks ago. And again, if you've got guys upset at each other or guys don't eat breakfast together or going

out of their way not to sit next to each other at the gala, what are the case maybe? You've got a problem. And I think this task force has addressed that to a large degree. The way they select the captains and ultimately the vice captains is way, way better than it was 20 years ago. And all this is in an attempt to address what you're talking about and how things have to be really copacetic if you want to have a successful week. And I say that in the same, you know, in the same breath, there's six rookies on this US team. And two of the guys that are not rookies are speed and JT.

And I feel like they are two of the ones, you that have been the best at I'm calling it selling out to the team in the best way possible right. I've just given yourself to it. I'll do whatever I can. If I go o and five and we win I will be there you know taking champagne out of Phil's Phil's hand you know like speed was up there at the top at twenty sixteen And it just, you know, Brooks was that guy, a new guy on this team as of, you know, two rider cups ago. And it just seems like now he's kind of one of the veterans with him and DJ. And I just don't get that vibe from them. And, and that's, that's, you know, you mentioned some of the things that were worth, you know,

US fans could and should be worried about coming into this. That's really kind of where it stopped with me. And it's, it just kind of, it speaks so much. It was reading some Rory comments today, due from 2018, just talking about how much they enjoyed each other and being around each other and playing as a team. I just still, as much as I know, the process has improved on the US side, I still worry about guys just ability to, you know, sell out to the team. And I mean, do you feel it? Am I in my own to something when I say, it can affect how you play under pressure

when you feel like you're kind of trying to do it on your own instead of really having a full on team approach to it. That's the only way that I can explain why this American team that has had such good teams has lost so many times. Yeah, you certainly want to be out there with someone that you absolutely know as your back. And again, I think that it's a pretty general way to say it.

I just don't think you can bring an ego to the right or not. And that goes for the, you know, the captain of the team. And it's absolutely goes to the players. And, you know, you know, if you and I had several beers at those points, we could go back, you know, 20, 30 years. And talk about maybe, you know, some guys that brought significant egos to that competition and things went horribly wrong, but we won't. But, you know, we might do that, we just won't record it. Okay.

But, you know, and again, this is just my opinion, but, you know, the one thing that I will say, because his name has come up a couple of times, you know, you know DJ's a different animal I mean, he's just he's just DJ. I mean, you know, he's the most resilient guy in the game You know, he the thing I love about the guys you can go out there and cover him for television He's made a double bogey 30 minutes ago and he will run into him on the 12th pole and he's like, hey man What's going on? He just couldn't be any nicer. Just the way he operates You know is a little different than any golfer I've ever seen before. So I don't want to necessarily lump him in because, you know, he might be the most, you know, big-time Ryder Cup fan in the world.

And we just would never know. He might not, you know, talk, speak about it or show it until he gets back to, you know, living in South Florida and he's talking about the week's events with his wife or whatever the case may be. So, you know, he's a little bit different in terms of some of the stuff we're speaking of. But, you know, again, I'm kind of repeating myself here, but it's just incredibly important. Don't bring your ego, have your partners back, certainly don't sell anybody out to the press after the fact. And I do think that, you know, you mentioned the picks in the young guys, I do think that there's a real thought, if you will, among some of these younger guys now that

they want rookies to a large degree way more than they used to because they feel like some of these veteran players have way too much scar tissue from previous Ryder cups. Yep. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. It It's also it's wild to me that over the last 20 years US captains picks have had better records than the actual qualifiers have had which They've played in fewer matches, but still it was a noticeable percentage in there But obviously listen, you know, listen to this show. You know that people know the actual rules difference between stroke and match play But at the highest level how how is it different? What makes a great match play player different from a stroke play player? Do stroke play players put too much pressure on themselves?

I'm trying really hard to understand it. I don't think I can get all the way there where, you know, if I'm watching Dustin Johnson and Ian Polter teed up in the same tournament, very few golf courses. Am I choosing Polter over DJ on? But like, if they're having played head-to-head match play, I feel totally different about it. And I just can't put my a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal.

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I'm not sure if it's a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal. I'm not sure if it's a big deal. with a partner. And in my opinion, there have been some world-class players over the years that haven't necessarily got it done to the degree they should in stroke play events, but play like absolute world beaters at the Ryder Cup because they've got a guy over there that has their back that can certainly back them up, you know, in the best ball portion of things, but in alternate shot can kind of put their arm around and say, that okay let's get them on the next hole. I think for some guys that that really really plays into this. I think aggression is a big part of it. I think that you know some guys really

you know we all hear these discussions on television about what you're aiming at and the this and of that and you know let's take it at that you know NBC sign behind the the great you know these guys you know have this opportunity at the Ryder Cup far more so to play right at the flag. And I think that suits some guys, again, better than others. I mean, I always thought that, you know, Tiger, even though his Ryder Cup record isn't what he would want it to be, you know, he was a much more aggressive player than, than people, you know, probably gave him credit for in terms of going out there, getting it done, and, it done and getting his hands on the trophy. So it's certainly different, but I also think one thing about match plays, it's much more of a big stage mentality.

And you get a guy like Polter, obviously, and he loves the attention. He knows he's on worldwide television. He knows if he knocks in this 50 footer, everybody's gonna go berserk and he's that much likely, that much more likely to do it as a result. And some guys, you know, shrink a little bit of thought of that stuff. Well, you've got a lot of experience when it comes to, you know,

cadding and four ball matches and enforcing matches. And I'm wondering if, you know, I'm just gonna put you in almost the player's shoe, right? As if you were the one hitting the shots, but you know, you're obviously on the same team as the player. What would you want in a, in a ForSum's partner? Do you want a complimentary style? Do you want a dry hitting the shots, but you're obviously on the same team as the player. What would you want in a ForSum partner? Do you want a complimentary style?

Do you want a alternate style? Do you really try to pair things up? Like, I want this bomber with this wedge player. Do you differentiate that out between ForSums and ForBall? I'm super curious, you know, all the different perspectives on that. Yeah, it's such a great question. And I do think that to a large degree, degree rider cups are one and lost on the golf course

by, you know, who makes the most 20 footers. It just seems to me that, you know, if you're making those putts, you know, of that kind of range, obviously they can flip matches, they can flip momentum, they can fire up the guys ahead or behind you. I would certainly want a guy that I felt like, I can certainly run a birdie putt four or five feet past the hole. The guy's not going to freak out, but beyond that is that much more likely than

on the guys on the team to pour in a 20 footer. But I do think that in 95% of the cases, it's very important that you're out there with someone you really enjoy spending time with. You know, I think that, you know, I assume something of a foregone conclusion that we'll see Shafley and Cantley together next week. They're extremely close friends. I think DJ and Burger, it's quite likely we'll play together. Things along those lines, someone that you can really relate to and talk to out there because, I mean, it's very, very stressful for these guys, especially for the US guys, given the fact they lost the last one and and a lot of it is expected of them.

This coming right a cup because of course, it's in the United States and it's, in a sense, time to kind of flip the script in terms of how these right a cups go. But, you know, it get it's so data driven now, and they've got to look at things like wind on, you know, a golf course like this, like Michigan, where it can be, you know, again, it's so data driven now and they've got to look at things like wind on you know It got of course like this unlike Michigan where it can be you know A north wind one day in a south wind the next it completely changes everything in terms of you know things like Carries over bunkers and who's gonna play into the par threes and you know Proximity of the whole over the course of the year relative to the PJ tour. There's there's a million things that can go into it

But you know, I just think more than anything else, you've got to really, really enjoy who you're out there with. I saw it in 2012 with Phil and Keegan Bradley. Those guys were incredibly close. I'm sure they still are. And they got out there. They won their first match, got some momentum, felt bulletproof, and they just basically ran the tables in terms of the matches they played together.

And I thought a big part of that was just how much they genuinely enjoy being around each other. Well, I want to talk to you some about analytics, but I tried my hat and getting into the analytics game a little bit this week and just kind of dove into Wissing Straits. And I know you spent some time up there in the past couple of months, you know, checking out the golf course. But I'm going to test my theory on you when it comes down to ForSums. There's eight long holes at Wistling Straits.

Five of those holes are even numbered holes. You let the longer hitter and ForSums tee off on those holes. You pair him with a good mid-iron player. And the mid-iron player is going to get eight mid to long irons, or maybe even fairway woods into the par-fives between those five long holes and three of the par-three's. And then you share pretty much three or four short-ish approaches between the two of you in that.

Does that sound like some kind of thinking that would go into a four-sims pairing? The example I use with that is assuming Morakawa's healthy, pairing him with somebody like Finao and letting Morakawa tee off on the odd holes and hit a lot of the mid-range approach shots seems like a great way to build a forcems team. I see you with your recent answer. You lean more on the relationship part, but on the analytic side, is that how you would

see things playing out? 100% I think that that's a terrific point by you. And I'm sure that's something that you know, Strykler is a very, very sharp guy, very, very shrewd and he's not going to leave anything to chance. And I certainly, you know, the theory you just mentioned is something he's going to have thought long and hard about. And I think, yes, to your point, someone like Fee now and Morokawa in that sense would be terrific.

And I do think that will be a huge part of what goes on out there. Again, the X factor is the wind. Of course, you've got these long-range forecasts now, and they'll have a pretty good idea days ahead what the wind's going to do. But yeah, and again, this is just such a great match play golf course. They're at Whistling Straight, and so much can go on. And you've got these very interesting tee shots. It's actually a par five on the front nine. I believe it's number six. And literally if you get the right wind coming off like Michigan, the guy like Dustin and

Bryson can hit a drive so far and so right, if you will, in terms of line, that you can hit sandwich or wedge into this par five for your second shot. So there's this so much going on in terms of, you know, the analytics and the data that you mentioned. But I think you hit that nail right on the head. Yeah, that's the fifth hole there. The sixth hole could also with the right wind be a drivable four. That's an interesting little stretch of the golf course.

And I want you, you gave an example there, and that was one of the things I wanted to ask in terms of what you've seen out of Whistling Strait's, and exactly why this golf course is, can and probably likely will strongly reward distance and maybe deemphasize accuracy a little bit. From all the data charts that show the shot emphasis from the golf course, it seems to be a dream for the United States.

Why is that? As a caddy, can you give us an example of why distance might matter at one course more than it would at another course? Yeah, well, it's a big golf course and it's a great risk reward golf course. I mean, certainly there's a, the short par four on the front nine to six hole that you mentioned that is drivable. Virtually everybody in the field can with the right wind, drive it down the left side and have the ball release down the sill, just left the green.

And some guys like maybe DJ Capka and Bryson can actually play towards the green there. But again, I think it's a golf course where there's a lot of carries off the tee that can, in a sense, reward aggressive play and length. Several of them, the first hole, the fourth hole, where you have these hourglass fairways and if you just kind of bomb it you can, you know, go from You know playing against the guy that's had to lay the ball up into the short part of the fairway It hit a six-line and they're in your partner's hitting pitching wedge and it's it's very very important And of course, let's not forget the fact that you know There's an intimidation factor to some degree in these rider cups

And you know, there's something very rewarding if you sense about you know getting up on on on some tea and watching your partner drive at 30 yards past the guy you're playing against and you know it's going to give you that much more confidence in terms of what's going on out there and and again it's a match play thing. It wasn't that big a factor at Hazel team in terms of length but I think it'll be a huge factor with these straights again because of some of these forced carries and I mean I don't know if it was it was to the length that it was you know when you were up there I don't remember where you're up there filming those videos with Luke Dombed But it doesn't seem like there's gonna be a lot of rough

I cannot picture any way that there would be a lot of rough that's gonna come into play on this golf course Is that fair to say? Yeah, I think it's a very fair to say I mean again, you know Certainly given the killer roughly, played it in Paris and it didn't go well for the states there in 2018. The one thing about Whistling Straits is that there's really not a whole lot of room for a whole lot of rough just because there's such an insane

amount of sand there. I mean, well, the first time I stepped on that property, I was completely freaked out because you just see, there are hundreds and hundreds of bunkers there. And you come to realize over time that, you know, 95% of them, you know, don't come into play, but again, you know, you get something going a little bit sideways there. But there's going to be some really interesting shots played out of some pretty crazy areas. Of course, as we saw with DJ, when he unfortunately had that rules issue there a number of years ago, it's just, it's just sand, sand, sand.

And there's just not a whole lot. I think they can do in terms of rough, but, you know, to your point, I don't think they'll be much of that anyway. Well, what are you, you know, either from what you would expect to happen or anything you're hearing on the pairings front on either side, really, I haven't gotten dove in too deep on what we think Europe might do. You mentioned a couple things, you know, can't lay in softly. I think that's pretty apparent.

I would imagine JT and Speed are playing in to go for a lot of matches. I don't know if anyone's going to play all four. That seems like a big property to go up and down and around for, you know, 36 straight holes, but anything else you think the, the US might do that either you're here in or have a gut feeling on. Well, well, one of the things I think that is huge for the U.S. in this Ryder Cup next week is the John Rom situation for them. And I think what I mean by that is that I think that they're going to be very aware that

if Rom doesn't have a dominant week, they've got a great chance to win. Rom is such an incredibly talented, dangerous player to deal with these days, obviously. You know, I think there will be a lot of speculation within the US team as to where Ram is going to go in the order of things, and who can they put up against it? Because again, if Ram doesn't have a spectacular week, it significantly increases the chances

that the US will win, obviously. So I think that there'll be a lot of thinking and talking about that in terms of how they handle it and the order in which they put out guys in an sense, kind of guessing where ROM may go. Beyond that, the Bryson things, very, very interesting, I really don't have a good idea of who they might put him with. I really don't have a good idea of who they

might put him with. I think certainly Tony Fienaou, you know, is a possibility, but I think that might be kind of a something of a game time decision. I'm very interested to see if they're going to go, you know, something of a pod type situation next week in terms of, you know, having, you know, three groups of four and just having those guys play strictly with the guys in your own pod and we'll be able to figure that quite quickly in terms of what we see and who plays with you and the practice rounds next week. Once we all get there on Tuesday and Wednesday. So it's just very, very interesting. I can't wait to see how it all goes down, but again,

between Stricker, Fred, the system captain and of course, Tiger, who I'm sure is communicating with those guys on a regular basis. I just don't think that the US is going to leave anything to chance here given how important the stuff coming right up is. What do you think about Phil's role as an assistant captain? I feel like he's been a playing assistant captain for maybe his whole career, but also it seems like a role

he's eager to get into. What do you think he brings to the table in that role? I would just say extra-manus amount of enthusiasm. I know that he absolutely loves that week. I've heard him say many, many times that arguably it's his favorite week of the year. And this is a guy that obviously loves the masters and many other things.

So I just think that he'll, that he there's nothing he wouldn't do in terms of helping out the guys out there. And he'll be, you know, fist pumping and high-fiving and, you know, dapping up everybody out there. And he'll be as excited as anybody once Friday morning comes around in terms of, again, just supporting the guys and,

and just, you know, giving them as much help and encouragement as you possibly can. So I just think that's a role that he relishes. And of course, it won't be too long down the road here before he's a captain himself. It's just gonna be very interesting to see where he and Tiger choose to do it. What's it like clubbing a guy at a Ryder Cup?

Is it just an automatic adrenaline adjustment you have to make right for the get-go? It's a great question because certainly I worked almost my entire caddy career for Phil and he was a massive adrenaline guy. So when he got into these really big spots, whether it's the masters of the Ryder Cup, he all of a sudden would just start hitting the ball much further than he normally would with his irons.

But from what I've seen now over the years, not everybody's like that, you know, tigers certainly not. I was blown away one year where I read an interview that Tiger did one year when he had an incredible shot into 15 at the Masters. He basically said, you know, I hit a five iron. It was 222 yards down the hill. And I knew it was a five iron because I had the exact same yardage in a practice round. And I thought to myself, isn't that fascinating?

So, you know, it's tiger basically telling us he hits the ball exactly the same distance on Sunday of the Masters as he did in the Tuesday or Wednesday practice round. And, you know, everybody's different. And again, certainly for Phil, he was as jacked up as he could ever possibly be. And you know, there's some great stories about when he played with Keegan at that 2012, you know, Ryder Cup Keegan was the same way where literally they got on the third or fourth hole one day in a match and Phil told Keegan in front of the guys we were playing against. Hey man, wait for the green to clear on this par four because I think you can drive on the green.

And it was like, you know, probably a 390-yard par four and I thought well that was, you know, maybe Phil just kind of trying to get and the other guy's heads a little bit and to Phil's friend, he got up there, he was so jacked up. He drove it in the green side bunker, they got up and down, made birdie and one the hole. So again, you get these guys where you just get this,

you know, adrenaline and energy pumping through them and all of a sudden it's a completely different animal in terms of what you're dealing with as a caddy. Last question we'll get you out of here. Can we get you to go on record on who you think will win? Well, yes, as an impartial NBC commentator, I would say that I think that the United States is going to win next week at the Ryder Cup. I think they've got their work cut out for them.

Certainly one of the toughest things about the position win next week at the Ryder Cup. I think they've got their work cut out for them. Certainly, one of the toughest things about the position they're in is the fact that, certainly, they lost the last Ryder Cup and everybody's well aware that in the last 20, 30 years, there haven't been as many US wins as a lot of people would have liked to have seen. So that brings a lot more pressure on them

in terms of what they're dealing with. But I think with their length, and I think that with stricker at the helm, I think he's going to be a terrific captain. I just think that things are lining up well in terms of where it's all going to go. But again, we just saw it in the Soul Heim Cup. The other team starts making 20 footers, they flip the script. You almost to me don't want to be a favorite in the Ryder Cup.

You wish that you didn't have to be a favorite in the Ryder Cup. You wish that you didn't have to answer those questions and the press conference and things along those lines. But again, you got to get out there and play. And no matter what happens, I just think it's arguably the most amazing competition in sports. Let's not forget, these guys don't make the dollar for being out there. It's again, love of country, love of their tour, representing their peers and their families. And I just think it's an absolutely amazing event and I

can't wait for it to start. Gosh, I'm making the hair on my arm stand up. Can't wait to get out there, man. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you next week and look forward to catching up and looking forward to enjoy one of the one of the great weeks in golf. Thanks, Bones.

You got to sell it. Take care. Before we turn it over to Jamie Kennedy, reminder, the world it will be watching is the golfer's head to Wisconsin this week. And Draft Kings, the America's top rated sports book app is giving you a shot to land on the green this week draft Kings is giving new customers 150 dollars and free bets

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bets for limited time. Only the draft king sports book must be 21 or older New Jersey Indiana or Pennsylvania only new customers only winnings paid out in site credits restrictions supply. See draft kings dot com slash sports book for details gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler or an Indiana one eight hundred nine with it. Also they got a lot of awesome bets like top score. You can guess the final score for the upcoming event as well. It's a lot of really good stuff. So without any further delay, we had to bring in our man from across the pond, Mr. Jamie Kennedy. Now it's time to bring in the cooler. I'm

I'm riding too high. I need somebody to bring me down a little bit. No one is better at doing that. Then our friend from golf TV, Jamie Kennedy, listen, the European fans have been begging me to get somebody from Europe side on, apparently a five time rider cup or an occurrent assistant captain on the European side was not enough. So what are we gonna do? We're just gonna spit stats back at each other until this thing actually kicks off.

I think so, is we're actually here your voice and not just see a tweet come back at me. So it's, this is gonna be a little awkward to actually face my photo, but no, it's excited to bat for the European. So let's do this. All right, well, give me a few reasons why you are feeling good if you are about the European side ahead of Wising Straits. To be honest, I'm not sure that I am.

I just, you know, I'm just sagging whenever I'm on L-Siggs, but I think one of the things that struck me in the last few weeks is just we've seen this exact script before We've felt the same things. We've heard the greatest US team ever. We've heard the hype. We've heard the home field advantage stuff Like we've heard it all before and it's just you know, it's just that mystery of the rider cup and how it comes together So that's where you draw confidence. I guess you draw confidence on the European side with the, I don't know the fact that the young guys like Hovelin is a rookie. He's a bit like Xander on the UFC side. Just don't really feel like a rookie.

But yeah, I mean, I think Padregg and I think the team will be excited that they're big underdogs. I think if it was a little bit closer, it becomes tricky, you know know if some of the US players if the picks have gone a different way or the form in the last like three months have gone a bit of a different way. It sort of puts the Europeans in a different position. I think they love being the underdogs. I think they want to roll onto a sling-stretch practice area with smiles on their faces going you guys have us losing by six. So let's just go anything we can do is a bonus.

You know that plays pretty well to this group of Europeans. So I guess that's what I'm clinging onto. It's not a lot, but. No, that, that, that makes sense. I mean, coming in with a little extra pressure if it's supposed to be close versus feeling like you have nothing to lose, I think can make a big difference.

So on the flip side of the coin, give me a few reasons why maybe you may have covered some of them there, but a few reasons why maybe you're not feeling so good about the European side. Yeah, I think I've had a discussion with a lot of people recently. I mean, obviously it just comes up in Ryder Cup. The people that come out of the blue to talk to you about Ryder Cup, compared to just like, I don't know, like the Omega European Masters is a bit different. So I would say that the bottom half of the European team, I think is maybe actually stronger than it has been in recent years. I know Vsberger, you know, sneaking his way in, probably worries a few people and Rose not making it in, but the likes of like Lairi and Garcia

and Fitzpatrick and people like that being the lower half of our team, I don't think it's necessarily too bad of a thing. I'm worried about the top half of the team. So that's where I was looking at it. We have one player inside the top 12 and the US have nine in the world ranking. So you can sail you want about rankings and then obviously like the two-year lag, but that's not normal for this event. Like we've usually had a lot more guys coming in on major success or having a bit better form than that. So that would be the worries. You know, when it comes to the ForSums, you can have one guy playing really well that wouldn't match for you and it just feels like the US have more of those sort of guys ready to go. I think I think I listened to you and Kyle talking about it last week, but

there's a few situations where the Europeans have to do a couple of things well to compete. Like, Ram has to play a lot of matches, has to play well. His stomach bug this week is scaring me a little bit, but Rory has to come out and just find something. I think the US team could dodge a couple of bullets, if Bryson had a bad week, if Speed didn't play well, I think the US team could dodge a couple of bullets, you know, of Bryson had a bad week if Speed didn't play well. Like, I think other guys can pick up the slide. Where is we kind of need those top guns to come out firing? Yeah. No, I will give you ample opportunity to put all the holes you want in the US side.

Because it is definitely, there are some holes in the Death Star there. Listen, this is not, this is, I think either I misrepresented or mispresented. I was very confident the US was going to win in 2018. I did not think it was impossible for them to lose. A lot of people thought that that was the case that I made. And I definitely, definitely do not think it is impossible for the US to lose this rider cup. I think it will, it will unleash a year's worth of takes that the likes of which we've never seen before in the Gulf world if they do because I think it lines up extremely, extremely well for them.

And that's interesting that you say you're more worried about the top because if I'm on American side, I'm worried about Ram. I'm worried about Casey. I'm worried about Hovlin. Rory always going to turn it on. Sergio, I think this is a great, great course fit for Sergio. So there's five dudes that I think the Europeans are going to ride really hard. I don't know if Sergio and I don't know if Casey can go all four team matches.

I don't know if they would plan on that. I wouldn't think so, but I'm guessing Ram, Hovlin and Rory are going to play all of the sessions on the team side. And I think the Europeans have a little bit of a depth issue at the bottom when it comes to, you know, how Fleetwood has played this year, Westwood, Veeceberger, Polter with how he's hit the ball this year and this course fit. And I think you can mask that a little bit over the first two days, but it's singles that I think, you know, even if the US is down 97 or so or even maybe slightly more than that, I cannot foresee a situation where they're not favored

in eight or nine of the singles matches. Of course, being favored does not mean you're gonna win, but I just think that I just don't know how long Europe can, I don't wanna say hide their depth issue that they have, because we know freaky things can happen in this event, but if I was a European fan, the depth at the bottom would worry me more than, and I kinda get what you're saying, though,

because you're saying it's gonna put a lot of stress on the top guys from the get-go, is that fair to say? Yeah, yeah, I think so. And, you know, to your point about the thing, it was totally right. I mean, I think this has changed in recent years. I know there's a lot more probably stats that say you have to sort of play the guys

so they have a bit of experience before Sunday, but you look back to, I think, 99, I think there's three Europeans that just they didn't even play a match until Sunday and so you know we went all in let's try and get up try and get lead and we got one and we're you know four points up going into into Sunday and then we know what happened on Sunday so those guys that you know I think it was like Andrew Cooltart and guys like that that didn't play just I mean just like railroad it like they don mean, just like railroaded, like they don't have any experience of the first tee,

they don't have any experience of the rhythm of the thing. So I wouldn't be surprised if Portoig was looking to try and hide guys a little bit. Maybe they only play one match. There's like three or four guys that only play one match, but I just don't see any guys sitting until Sunday. And that I guess is a little bit of a concern considering some of the names, but like you say, this is all chat and all. It would be so. I think the three-year hiatus, I think the course, I think the way that the two teams have matured in age, I

think it's like set up to just be unbelievable. I can't wait. I hope so. Yeah, to your point, in 99, Coltart, Van Develle and Sandolin, were the three that didn't play any matches, then they drew Phil Davis love and tiger. And no one made it to the 17th hole. Oh my, I mean, those guys have to just look back on that. We can go like, what was I doing? Like, so it kind of threw me for it. So I'm trying to take it, do a little analysis on like US

qualifier. And I'm doing Europe too. Like the qualifiers and captains picks with their records over the last 20 years or so. And I pulled up the records from not from 99 and from 2012. And I looked at the US side and the overall record between all the players added up was a winning record in 2012. And I'm like, oh my God, they got the scoring wrong. The US should have won the Ryder Cup. And it dawned on me that it's, you know, when you're playing the team game,

the wins count double and the losses count double. And, you know, like the actual playing records of this team's, you know, Europe in 99 and US in 2012 was actually above 500 individually. I know it was a little twist, just to speak to how crazy those final days are, but also like how many freaking points are available that final day. I think that it was 12 of 28 points is almost 50% worth that the play is all settled on that final day. That's why I think we've seen some crazy

comebacks. France, look, there was a 15 minute period where if the matches had finished the way they were standing, not late, not early in the game, that the US would have won. It started raining down. It was downpouring of birdies on the European side after that. But even on Friday, I think in Paris, that one stage was projected to be like five, one to the US or something. And people overreact to that so much. And I'm sure in a way, the teams do as well. I'd heard I'd heard stories that the I think Fleetwood and Mollinary were playing on the back nine there in France on Friday on about, I think they were down. I think they were like one down with four to play. And the weird thing about the writer cup because it's such a condensed event is the team, the captains then have to put

their pairings in before the end. So they're watching shots and making calls based on shots. And obviously they have their plan But if that team's losing you're not gonna throw them back out and there was chat between the captains of splitting that team and I Think the you know the stats group came in. I think Robert Carlson surprisingly enough played quite a big a big role in coming over and going Just sell down guys like this is the plan is a plan for a reason So they kind of stuck with the process. They ended up coming back to win that match and obviously went for an O and their game. So it's amazing the ups and downs of those first two days and how the third day just feels like a day

but you know more than half the points are available just on that one day. So it's that's what makes the Friday and I think on the Saturday. So exciting is that one point just feels like 10 early on a Friday. It's just like if they're two up after four, you're like, this thing's over. Everyone's just flying in on Twitter. Everyone's just so excited and then all of a sudden on Sunday, you're like, Oh, shit, we're down in four. The five matches are wherever it is. So yeah, it's funny.

I was watching some old highlights from 18 and 16. And man, like the US played at times, played way better in France than I remember it, right? I mean, they made some puts, they chipped in. And that actually concerned me a little bit. I was like, oh my god, we still lost that badly after, you know, kind of holding it from everywhere. I mean, it was a highlight package, of course.

But it just like, it really is a small sample size that you're dealing with, you know, an 18 hole match and no matter who plays in this event, the 24th ranked player and this event can beat the first ranked player. We see it all the time in stroke play. Nobody notices, but yeah, that, you know, the 24th best player in a field can beat number one very easily in stroke play on Friday. And you wouldn't notice it. But what can you, all right, so I get a lot of this from people blah, blah, blah, you're

two into the stats. You don't understand analytics like every year we look at analytics and every year Europe beats our butt. Tell us why that's not necessarily the case. Can you tell us with that I'm sure you don't want to give too much away, but I'm sure you know a little bit about how analytics are done on the European side and how much of a role that plays. That story you just told about Fleetwood and Molinaria is exactly what I'm talking about. I think there's, without doubt, the Europeans embraced the stats earlier than the US and

that probably came to fruition. And it's probably a personality-led thing. I don't know if it's a PGA of America thing or, you know, just the way the players are when they played, you know, Stryker even said he's fighting it a little bit because he's not used to it So he kind of has to weigh up both things and I laugh because I sometimes when Captains are debating you know the gut feel of writer cut versus statistics I think of that like money ball scene when that went Brad Pitt sitting around with all the old guys saying you know Oh, he's got a hot girl friend that means he's, you know, whatever it is.

And, you know, and Brad Pitt's just shaking his head. And he's, you know, Brad Pitt is almost be ordered in that situation saying, I don't care. Like, I know the stats say that more than I already flew, we'd suit together. So the one thing I would say to people is the statistics that you're looking at to make these judgments, even the statistics that me and you go back and forth on, they're not the statistics that these guys are looking at. They're so much deeper, they're so much more in the weeds. I remember hearing, it was Robert Carlson who looked on old with the two guys I used to chat to, and they lead up to 18 about it, and they were, they had all

sorts of models built on like pressure play and pressure putting, so when a player got within one or two shots of the lead that activated them in that statistic and then they tracked how they did from then on in terms of putting in terms of play. So they could see how they handled pressure and then there's all kinds of things about, you know, which iron play suits back right pins versus front left pins versus greens that shape a certain way, greens that are deep, greens that are narrow, wind directions who can hold the ball up against a wind right So it's so deep and then it's distilled down to however the captain wants it, but it's It's unbelievable. I mean, and again, this is just like one contributing factor to

Strikers point. I mean at the end of the day He sort of makes the call and and that's what can happen is These calls can can change and that's the one thing I'd say is underrated is you hear a lot of people saying is is Stricer the right guys is herrington the right guy to sort of adjust the plan I would say to people adjusting the plan in a three-day event like the Ryder Cup is a huge Huge call to sit there on your buggy on the 15th hole on Friday You know Friday afternoon and change what you've been planning for weeks is quite a tough decision to get to. So if there is anything like that, that's borderline panic button, so I don't anticipate that being

like a big thing, I think. And less guys aren't feeling right or you know, something crazy happens. I think they'll have a pretty strict fun. They'll stick to. That's really interesting about the, the, the, the, here I like, I did a cursory glance through whistling and tried to come up with how I think that you would pair somebody with foursome. And I mean, I knew that it was much, much deeper than what I'm able to, you know,

drum up online and everything. But that's interesting about wind and pins. Yeah. Yeah. There's a huge part to, you to, where would this guy hit it? Whereas the zalatoris and decades start approach of looking at the windows of these guys hit it and how offline could they go on this whole. So they're more likely to hit it to the left side of the fairway or whatever it is. And again, I don't think the purpose of this is to like, ensure a point, it's just to ensure like, you know, to the same point, it's stroke's game,

it's to ensure like, a half a shot that might make the difference in a match. So if it came down to, this would give you the tiniest little edge in a match that went down 18, but, and maybe over the course of, you know, a rider cup, or even over the course of like two or three writer cups, if this is the approach that you're taking, maybe it wins you a few points and can make a difference. And that's where I think there is something to this intangible part.

And I do want to talk to you about that. And this kind of immeasurable effect of team play and all that. And hey, they throw analytics or throw numbers out the window when it comes to the writer cup. And I want to, they throw, you know, throw analytics or throw numbers out the window when it comes to the Ryder Cup. And I want to just be like, you know what? Like the numbers have been pretty darn good in a lot of the past several Ryder cups. Right. The 2012 Ryder Cup was a very even matchup. And here we ended up with like, you know, obviously one of the closest and wildest Ryder cups ever. 2014 that European team

was just flat out better and favored and they beat them and they ran their playbook. And it worked. 2016, that US team was just flat out better, ran their course playbook, shifted the odds in their favor to help, you know, fit some of their strengths. 2018, the US came in with a fantastic team, but gosh, were they mitigated on that golf course? I mean, Phil, Bryson, you know, Tiger has never been an accurate driver of the ball on a golf course that just driving

accuracy was what the Europeans, I keyed on very early and said, this is what our advantage is going to be. And here's how we're going to play into it. And like, I did, I was not knowledgeable to it before they teed it up, but one that's once they teed it up, Europe was the favorite team. Like Europe had a better chance of winning that because of how they had formulated everything. I just think that, aside from this intangible thing that I think we do need to get into, there is a very, very, very good reason why the numbers play such a strong role in all of this.

I be on belief. So far beyond what I think the average fan would appreciate and going back to France. I remember I think it was public information. I think somebody I don't even know if it was us. I think it might be us at the European Tour or someone had posted out the number of rounds played by both teams at Lagos National combined. I think JT had come over to play France and did pretty well. I think he finished like top five, but his four rounds were the only four rounds that

the team had played other than when they went over, I think, ahead of the open for a practice round. But, you know, competitive rounds, it made such a difference. And it's not necessarily seeing the course and understanding clubs on a part three or something. It's just having that expectation of, you know, it doesn't take you by shock under the gun, how tight the third T-shirt is or something like that, you know, it just gives you that sense of confidence going in. And I think that's what a lot of these numbers do, a lot of the fluff that you hear about what the captains are doing to prepare. It's just to make it so that these guys can just go out and play. And it sounds so like cliche to say it, but you want to just do every little detail so the guys can go out and just not question it I have a feeling that some of the US team, you know, when they got paired up or however it worked in France, which and maybe is the height of the rough

Even though they had the couple of days to practice there But when that rough at LaGolf National gets a little wet as well, it's brutal So I think, you know, it just took them a little bit by surprise and then maybe they're trying to change stuff during rounds And that's just, you's just a recipe for disaster. So it'll be interesting to see it whistling though, because clearly we know the sort of way that the US team will set up that course. And it means that the Europeans should be able

to get the ball and play. They're obviously not gonna potentially hit it as far as the US team, but I think it sets up to maybe be a better spectacle because of the strengths of the US team. You know, we're not going to see as many hacks out and you know, he has to hold us from 50 yard short in the green to try and half the hole. It's going to be more like who can stuff it close from with a five iron and I think that's exciting stuff that people want to see. I think that

reminds me a little bit more of Hazel team and sort of long iron approaches and Thomas Pears and Rory and those guys just going and, you know, flagging shots that just get the crowd going. So that's my hope. Yep. No, I struggle with this, right? Because I'm very anti-bombed gouge. I don't love like the trend of the PGA tour and being like just send driver. Yet I of course, moved for the American team. so I want them to set this up in that way. But I really, and I've said this before 16, definitely said it before 18, I'll continue to say it, we need an independent body setting up these golf courses.

I don't think it need, if the US goes on to win this by a lot, then we are, that's four straight rider cups that have not even been close, really. And I think things are just gonna continue to trend towards the most, like on the extreme ends of manipulating courses and setups that play too much to the home team's advantage, right? And I just don't think, I don't think that serves really anyone.

I think a good, close, exciting match is what this event should and can be about, right? And I think the US should have competed better than they did in 2018 and prepared better. And I think they could have. I don't think the European's on this, you can't just like add distance overnight, right? They're not gonna, it's not to say they can't win, of course,

but I think it is gonna, the Wist thing's gonna play a big difference. And it's not, I hear some people saying like, hey, it's not gonna be, you know, just who hits it the furthest and I think that's not really the point. It's who can get it closest to the hole. And if, if you ask and bomb it and, you know, on average, a shot from 140 is going to go closer than a shot from 160.

And if they can avoid the Europeans making those 25 footers that they always seem to make, like that's, that's the playbook, right? And it's going to take a ton of made 25 footers to disrupt, you know, that the boat on that one. And so, yeah, are you concerned from the European side on Wisteng Straits? How the distance profile sets up, the accuracy profile sets up, and how the teams line up. It's somewhat, yeah, I think the Europeans could use some weather. I think they could use some wind and just and see how it plays. But just a couple of points on the point you mentioned,

a couple of things that I've been thinking about in the last, I don't know, two or three weeks and they run out to this. I mean, you're a point about, I think I heard you talk in last week that, you know, if you take Poulter's Puts out play, 10 of the last 11 rider cups have been won by the home team, which is kind of staggering to think about.

And that plays to the idea that, you know, maybe the core set-ups is sort of being pushed a little bit too far. But I kind of wonder if you would be interested in hearing this argument that I think the models of the teams and the styles of the teams is maybe blending closer together than it's ever been. I think if you look back at the 80s and 90s,

and specifically 90s and maybe the 2000s, and you look at the kind of European players or at the 80s and 90s, specifically 90s and maybe the 2000s, you look at the European players or the top of the world rankings and how you'd set up a course for the likes of Fowl the Langer, Luke Donald Monty. That formula of guy was obviously a straight hitting, very solid. That's how you'd set up a lookolf National. But I think now that you look at the Europeans that are coming through and it's Rory, it's Ram, it's Hovlin, who knows who the next generation of guys will be. But I kind of feel like, and again, this is maybe to the point of the distance in the game. But I think the modern player is just going to become

a little bit more uniform across both teams. And I think potentially there's going to be less, you know, oh we're going to set it up this way to just eliminate the US team, we're going to set it up this way to eliminate the Europeans. So I think that could be an interesting trend to sort of see and you know by the time it really comes around and by the time it comes back again like how how would you set up this? Because I don't know that they're going to give up that that home setup, I think they quite like they're they're being a little bit of an Advantage to the home team, but then on your other point about

You know the Europeans seeming to make those 25 foot pots I think that's why I mentioned to I think one of the tweets that we're going back and forth with was talking about that a little bit I think the underrated narrative here is how strong the US team is at putting and of course putting in the US. I mean I think I looked into it and there's I think there's three I think it's RAM, Fitzpatrick and Poulter are the positives like way above average putters on the European team so I kind of feel like you need to slot them into force them. Force them's teams if you can just to have the really solid putter but But then on the US side, there's six. There's six guys that are like above 0.3 or 0.4 and stroke's game putting.

And that, I mean, that's double the amount of guns that you've got when it comes to holding puts on the green. So I wish it was the other way around and I wish the Europeans could be hitting the longer shots in but having the advantage when they put it. I just, I fear that guys, I'm scared of the guys like, can't lay in Xander and Daniel Berger and these guys that are just gonna feel like rolling those puts that normally are the Europeans, but maybe I'm just, I think I've got a word from Harrington that I'm just playing to this

underdog story, so I'm just trying to build up to that. Well, I think it's your first point on like Ram Casey Hoffman Rory. I view them as PGA tour players, right? They they play primarily on the PGA tour and their course, they're playing style fits very strongly with the PGA tour and should fit very strongly with Strait's again. If I'm if I'm on your side, I don't worry about how those guys fit the golf course. I think it's once you get past that, Sergio in that category as well. And he's not top-top in his game that he's been over his career,

but he's still got it. I mean, he's the third best stroke skating off the tee of anyone in this field this week. But once you get past that, is when it just turns into a bunch of guys that would, gosh, they would scare me so much. If we were going back to France the Polter the Fleetwoods the Westwood the Vsburg Everyone Everyone would terrify me and they just this can be famous last words

They just don't scare me nearly as much at whistling and I think if you look at that US team and I can't believe they did it You know they pick the six exact guys that I would want to pick when it came time for this golf course being a Bombers delight and just being dudes that get the ball in the hole. People, you know, I feel like they're starting to be a little bit of anti-strokes gain momentum and maybe it's just because I overuse it. But like, that's the measurement of how you get the ball in the hole. Like, that's all it is. It's, you know, some people don't think it's maybe a bit too fancy or a bit too whatever.

But like, that's what it is. It's your ability to get the ball in the hole. And they went for this Stroke's Game Plus Course Fit model and kind of figure out the chemistry as we go. But I kind of have so far been liking what I've heard out of the Stryker camp. Now, this is your chance to go ahead and let's just poke some hole. Like, you can, I can do it for you if you want but poke some holes in what you're seeing on the on maybe the team chemistry side on the US side. Yeah, it's interesting. I was I was totally there for Kyle's point of this is the post tiger fill era and that's good for the US team and I get that but I still want and I don't see guys like JT and spieth as being the vocal leaders in the team room, and I think that stuff's maybe a little bit overrated overall, but at the

same time, it still feels like 12 individuals coming together more so than, you know, when you see the Europeans in the team room or in behind, they're all just like really comfortable, and shockingly because they come from such diverse backgrounds most of the time and like you say some of them play on European tours on the split times some of them are US-based but so I don't I'd be interested to see how that plays out and I sometimes feel like the the Americans may be trying force all these narratives a bit more of you know here's a video of us all laughing together and here's, you know, I kind of think, yeah, I was thinking this morning when I was walking around, I was saying,

I'm sure the European camp has a version of the task force or whatever it's called. They just don't call it the task force and they don't bring it up in press conferences and they don't make a big deal out of it, but they have a process by which they do things. So it's just a slightly different demeanor thing, but overall, yeah, I just think the US team, it's more just about how they combine in their team games. I think like you say, I think the Europeans are gonna need to get up three, four, five points going into singles,

because head to head, it just turns into just a complete competition of ball striking, and the US team is going to be the favorites there. So that's where I kind of would hope that we gel as Europeans and maybe there's a bit of weather. But yeah, there's not actually a ton of holes to sort of poke into the European, I mean to the US team. I think there's a couple of worries obviously, you know, Brick's health and DJ's games, maybe not being quite as much there. And you know, is there guys that get along or don't get along? But ultimately this, I mean, again, playing to the, to the favorites,

there's the lose definitely, but, um, man, you're too nice. I'll do it all. I'll do it all. Mark, how is back as a question, Mark? Hasn't played good. Yeah. Dustin has seems just very, can take it or leave it when it comes to this event. Like he was one in four in France as the number one player in the world. Bryson has self-proclaimed, he has wrecked his hands, trying to get ready for the long drive contest.

He's doing on the Monday after this thing. And then we have Keppka, who very much views, like the way his comments in the golf digest interview, were just like, this is exactly what we're talking about. Like this whole eye thing about how this event affects me and my routine is just what you will not hear on the European side because they get genuinely excited to go play together as a team. And I'm, I'm, I'm there. I'm all the way there. Maybe if I downplay this at all in the past,

like I'm all the way there on that mattering because for so many years we've had to answer the question, why is the US have a better team, like a better team on paper and not play well in the Ryder Cup? And I think there is a difference in like having a team support surround system in a atmosphere that promotes fun versus an atmosphere that promotes pressure. And like that is like defining the difference between the two teams over the last two decades, right? The US comes in and tries to perform so well individually without like having this, I talked about this with bones on the first have this podcast. I don't see the US's top player jumping up and down on the green after winning it. Like I saw John Rom after winning, you know, in 2018 and Fleetwood losing his match

in singles and going right out and celebrating popping corks and all that. It just, it's just not the same, like, dedication and devotion to the team, which when under the gun can make a difference in very close matches. Am I on to something? Yeah, I think so. One of the things I was thinking about ahead of this was even just the first tee. I think if you look closely at the demeanor of the guys when they walk on to the first tee of Ryder Cup, I think the first tee of the Ryder Cup, I mean we obviously know it's

like it's own event compared to the rest of the Ryder Cup, but it's such a big event the first tee and the first tee show of the first day that it's impossible to ignore. You know, if you watch guys walk on to the first tee of the Tour Championship or Augusta, they can keep it under wraps and keep it underlaid and do their usual tith or cap and go and hit their shot. You can't do that, they're ready to come. It's so loud, it's so in your face, it's slapped you across the face.

You can't ignore it. And if you watch the Europeans, they tend to embrace it. They tend to smile, wave, cheer on the crowd, you know, even if it's the US crowd them they might acknowledge it And I think the Americans work so hard to try not do that that it's actually counterproductive to them and even it's the same thing like you said with Holding a pot and having a bit of a release it when it's the Americans I mean JT has it a little bit in speech-headed But most of the time it just it doesn't feel like what's natural to them. Whereas the Europeans just seem to be playing more naturally and it's... You can't fake this kind of thing, right? I'm not asking the Americans to fake it. It's

just something that is inherent, I truly think. But I also think it has the potential to start to turn with a different generation to Kyle's point of like, you know, kind of being the only vets in this thing are Keppka DJ and now Speed, as I guess, technically a vet. But like, you know, Fina was only played in one, you know, Kebka's only played in two, and I'm just kind of doing this off the top of my head, but like six rookies, plus JT and Speed being some of the younger guys,

it feels like it's the best chance for the US to kind of turn over this atmosphere in some way. So. Yeah, and builds like build a future. I mean, I've heard you guys talk for a long time about like pick for the future and build it. I mean, it's just happened to be that way that these guys are playing at the right time.

But yeah, I was got the year. I'm surprised the US has, the US team as it sets up has a winning record at the right of cup. They've, I think they've 24 wins, 22 losses. So I know that's tight and that's maybe not as dominant as they are in the game, but they have a winning record. They don't have like a ton of scar tissue, so why not? The one thing I'm going to ask that you look out for,

that I know you'll be excited for, and I know fans will be excited for, is the 13th man on the European side is going to be in the media center on the days before the Ryder Cup, because you think of the story lines that these, the US team have coming into this and the questions that they're going to be asked and how they handle it. If I'm in the US like backroom staff, I'm working over time on how we approach that because Bryson's going to get asked about his long drive stuff, Brooks is going to get asked about his comments, Morkawa's going to get asked about

injuries, DJ's going to ask if he cares, you know like all these guys are going to get asked the thing and does that get to them a tiny bit? Are they gonna try and react to that when they play? I don't know. Whereas the Europeans, they're just coming in, sort of ho-ha, a little bit under form. They'll get asked about being underdogs and they'll like that.

So I just, I kind of am excited to see what happens like Wednesday, Thursday and the media center. It might be me asking the questions. I play over. If Bryson has a bad rider cup, I very much plan to be in there asking about his training routine. He won't be there. He's about to get to his long drive, doesn't he? That's right.

He's trying to put his feet off. Talk to you about pairings. I want to, where do you see the Europeans doing with their big guns? We talked a lot about them a lot, but looking back on it, I didn't remember Rory playing with Andy Sullivan in 16, and then of course, he paired with Thomas Peters, the rest of the way, but Rory also played with Jorbjorn Olison in 2018. So we've kind of seen their stars mix it up

with some guys that I would consider on the back half of their team, but we've seen the Rose and Stenson's pair up and Sergio and Rory and all that stuff. What are you think is going to happen? Because I really think it's interesting because they could go like real heavy with like ROM Rory and try to guarantee some points. They split them up.

I really have no idea what's going to happen. Yeah, it's interesting. I think I think to the Rory point, I think Rory's quite an easy guy to play with. I think he's quite a laid back kind of character and gets on well with people. So he's maybe being suited to sort of taking those guys under the way. I still remember him and Andy Sullivan charging like in the first 12 or 13 holes, Sullivan was holding pots, Roy was holding pots, they were laughing but they lost and then that Sullivan didn't play again until Sunday and you know he's the kind of guy that's just not made it back

onto the team but when it comes to pairings, the sort of educated answer is you kind of are pairing up like I think putters with drivers and stuff You have to have a putter in every force team for the Europeans just because there's not as many but from history like let you say We don't have rose. We don't have stents. And we don't have those guys the only pairing that I can see being a rollover is Is Casey and Hatton those two paired pretty pretty well together. Their games are pretty similar, their demeanor are kind of similar, so well maybe not Hatton's as much as with Paul, but I can see those two going together. I, funnily enough, I've had this feeling that Rory might go out with Poulter on Friday. I know they did that before it didn't work, I know they played in Paris,

they got a little bit too hyped and they ended up getting beat. But I just think, I think Rory and Poulter being that sort of like statement pairing on Friday could be maybe a bit of a catalyst for the week and getting... I mean, Poulter's potting numbers are pretty incredible this year, even though his game is maybe not that suited to Whistling, but... And then pairing with Roryory that could be interesting. I think I'd look for potentially Ram and Sergio playing together, but I'm not sure that that relationship is as tight as everyone makes out. I think they're their friends, but you know, who knows if they're how close they are, but I think it's quite tricky, honestly. I think I'd rather be picking pairings on the US side in terms of pairing up games than pairing up the the European side. So my morning for I'll give you my forSums. I wrote these down. I'll give you my forSums for Friday morning where Rory and

Poulter, Ram and Sergio, Hovlin and Hatten and Fleetwood and Casey, even though I just told you that Hatten and Casey are going to go together well. So yeah, I think I think that would be pretty strong. I think like we said earlier, Porderry's going to have to ride, like we said before, Rory Ram Hovelin. So my, funnily enough, when you said that earlier, my way of picking them earlier,

I wrote down those three names, and I paired someone with them, and then I made up another team. And that was it. That's kind of the way I think it's going to have to go. Yeah, now. And here's the thing. I'm going to's kind of the way I think it's gonna have to go. Yeah, no. And here's the thing. I'm gonna sit here and say,

I think the US team lines up actually great for four sums for once. And then they're gonna put balls in the air Friday morning and I'm gonna feel horrid about it. But I think it's JT and Speed. I think it's Cantlay and Xander. I truly don't know where it's after that, but I could see a combo of DJ and Morakawa.

I could see a combination of Fina and more a cow I would be surprised if they ran or I could see burger going out there I'd be surprised if they ran English or Sheffler out there in the morning But the teams three and four I really don't know what that fourth one might be But then I think it's Bryson and Sheffler in the afternoon for four ball I think English is gonna go I'd have to check my my sources on what the pods are and all that stuff. But the Europeans can roll out a good team in morning for sums. You know, they can really make that the A. And then you get an afternoon four ball. And if we're running out,

candidly, if we're running out Vsburger and Westwood and four ball and some of the, you know, some of the names, unless they're going to sit them for an entire day, I think the US is going to have a great opportunity in the afternoon to build a lead. It could be famous last words, but for some, it could go either way. It's what I'm saying. I'm not going to panic if they're down three one, but afternoon four balls, when I expect the US depth to start to show off a little bit. Yeah, I think to your point, I think the four ball selection is going to be like absolutely fascinating because we've talked about the fact that Europeans maybe have to build a lead. So do you do that on day one, or do you view it as the first two days overall?

So I have Vsburg going in the afternoon on Friday with Fleetwood, but that's my pie in the sky stuff But I kind of think it's important just to give them a couple the guys a little bit of a glimpse I mean, it's a hovelin's gonna play so you don't have to worry about him and I think You know Vsburgers and I guess the Lairese are rookie as well So maybe you pair him up with Rory and the four balls in the afternoon to give him like a comfortable match to play. But I think those afternoon four ball picks are going to be pretty cool to see. And also obviously like we talked about before how they react to the Friday morning.

So yeah, I forgot about Keppga as well, but I could see Finau Keppga going in the afternoon four ball. I think English and Burger made up pair together. It's, I forgot about Keppka as well, but I could see Finau Keppka going in the afternoon for ball, I think English and Burger may end up pairing together. It's, I don't know. I'm too deep. I've lost myself. I need to pull up. I need this week to get here.

I'm trying to figure out who you are. I need this week to get here. Are you gonna go on record with an official pick? Of the overall match. Sure. Yeah. I mean, if I was gambling or I was like really Guns the head. I would say it's I would say the US by three. That's no fun

But I I genuinely do think that this is gonna be one of those years It's just gonna play play differently with the tiny bit wind and something I actually was looking at the odds of the tie Yeah, that's very much like sitting on the fence, but nobody ever talks about it and it would be a very odd thing to have, but I mean I would love it. Can you imagine the finish like Whistley straights with like three matches left on the course of their coming 16, 17, 18, it would just be absolutely bonkers, so I might pull for that, but yeah, I have a little bit confidence in my heart that maybe the euros are gonna surprise a few people. Well, I cannot wait.

I was hoping you'd pick the euros so we could have a wager, but I... Oh, we can do that regardless. I've got my hat ready. I've done this many times before and it's worked tight, so let's do it. Well, thank you for the tremendous perspective, Jamie. I look forward to next week

and hopefully when the world gets back to normal, we'll catch up again in person. Oh, good. Go year it. Oh, damn it. Cheers, bud. Yeah. Give it a right club. Be the right club today. Yes.

Yeah. That's better than most. How about it? That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.