No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 492: Jon Rahm

Episode Date: October 27, 2021

World number one Jon Rahm joins the pod to talk about a crazy 2020-21 season. From contending at the Masters, to winning his first major at the 2021 US Open, testing positive for COVID while leading the Memorial, competing in the Ryder Cup and, of course, the new perspective he gained from becoming a father. Really enjoyed this chat with Jon - thanks to him for spending some time with us! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! All right, we're gonna do this opening ad a little differently than we usually do it You're gonna do it for us, John. You made an equipment change this year. I think it's fair to say it worked out pretty well for you I just want to know is there anything you want to say to the haters. Yes, I told you. For all of you, you know, experts of the game who said, oh, you know,

Jon's not going to make it. I don't know why he's changing. Oh, he's only chasing the money. No, I've repeatedly say, I don't do this for the money. I saw an opportunity to improve my game. And I think based on how I've played this year I've proven it right. Even through a money factor change I've had arguably the best year of my career. So hopefully this is the beginning of a great struts of golf. That's well said. I am curious though what is the difference maker for you? Is it golf ball? Is it the irons? I'm always curious at the highest level what truly does make that difference.

It's a combination. I think I can also mention for people that didn't know my last year of college, my last semester, I had major Lea Cullaway back. I had a Cullaway irons, Cullaway wedges, and a mix-and-th drivers and woods. I tried everything so it wasn't I actually kind of took a gamble when they turned pro and switched everything to tailor me, right? So that's something people don't know. Plus the way I grew up I didn't have a really truly properly fitted club until I was in college. So I basically displayed with whatever it was given to me, Right? So adjusting was never very difficult. Now, when he came to Calaway, obviously, you know, I had a certain my dominance to the green over my first few years as a pro. So I didn't want to lose that. And before I made my decision, actually before it was the Monday of those

I went from Vegas to San Diego to go to Calaway and try out some stuff and see and I actually really liked the driver. What I thought was gonna be the hardest transition and that I'd be the easiest which was finding a driver that worked and kind of worked the whole bag. Iron's the whole performance really well looked beautiful. It was pretty easy. It was actually what I thought was gonna be the easiest change would end that I've been a little bit of the hardest which was the putter. I've played my whole life with the two balls until I moved to the spider and I think that transition is kind of what going from a face balance putter to a toe hang and then

back to a face balance was kind of the the harder transition and now with the with the Rossi I'm back in a toe hang, right? So it's a bit it was a bit of a harder work to go with that but what actually made me change, I had a lot of conversations with Phil Mickelson, and I've always struggled inside 150 yards compared to the best in the world, right? I'm not going to say I'm bad, but I'm not as good as I would like to be in that category. And spending a lot of time with Phil, he explained certain things, and we talked about certain things that made me realize that changing to the colorway ball and with some of the colorway equipment and combinations

could make me make me a better player. And that's where I saw where I could improve the most. And that's why I changed. At the end of the day, ball striking is made because of the characteristics of my swing. You know, My boat racing the way I swing is when it makes me a good ball striker. So it's just tuning the clubs to that which doesn't take much when you haven't changed shafts in pretty much 10 years. And talking about that with Phil, that made me realize I couldn't prove and then seeing how the ball reacted, it made me realize I couldn't prove, right? I'm sure we talked about it later, but you know, just being able to use different wits at the different clubs inside that distance to have different spins, different trajectories and be able to maneuver

and have control over the spin on the ball a little bit more would make me want to change. And you know, I feel like I can get still a lot better than I would have done this year. Early on it was an adjustment period, but still I can see the future, my level in that area of the game become a little bit better than what it was before. And that's a lot better and that's what would make me decide to change. When Phil is talking to you about that, does it all make sense? I say that in terms of, of course, it probably makes sense to you, but Phil could, the way Phil gets into the nitty-gritty of that kind of stuff, I'm curious, you know, just what that conversation actually was like on the detail level. Well, I've spent enough time with him to to know what he means with certain things,

right? I've also learned, because I'm a golf information and golf technique junkie. I just watch every instruction of video I can get my hands on. A lot of times, you know, all these great players that have accomplished a lot and they're the best in something in their game. A lot of times you got to understand what they are saying with what they're really doing because they tell you what they're feeling and obviously what they feel is never going to be wrong, but a lot of times between what they are actually doing and what they feel, this a little bit of discrepancy, right? Same with me, I tell a lot of times where I feel like I'm releasing the club

in some of my shots and compared to others, I ain't releasing anything, right? So it's just realizing what it means by what it's doing and after spending a lot of time with him I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what some of those certain things he talks about when he gets into technique and certain details I get it but he didn't get too much into it he just he he's clearly been improving his recruiting techniques and he was the assistant coach at a SU because it's improved a lot I can tell you that right now those conversations I have with him were a lot better that I can imagine we're in the past. So let me get this straight. The number one player in the world is watching every instructional video he can get his hands on. Did I hear that part right? Oh yeah, I love it.

I just love watching it. What do you what do you pick up on? Because I'm always curious with that, right? Like when you get to a certain level obviously level, obviously, you're going to be a better player than anyone that can help you with your game. What do you pick up on, either from an instructional video or from coaches? What does that teach you? I think the one thing to learn is that, at least from what I also have in my experiences, a lot of people, a lot of instructors are going to teach the exact same thing, the exact same mechanics, just explaining in a completely different way, right? Which also means people would understand the same thing or an instructor can learn how to explain something in many different ways to tailor to that player, right?

That's why I think a good instructor like for example, Bouch Harmon was who succeeded with so many different players, is somebody who can tailor what he knows to that one player. When you have one instructor that has one theory or one way to teach, it's only going to work for certain players. Other players can either cannot do it, or they won't understand what he's trying to say. I think that's what you learn a lot about a lot of things. It's about when,'s say bunker technique,

when you have different people explaining bunker technique, what do they mean with each thing, what are the key components to what they consider a good bunker technique, et cetera, et cetera, right? And then I focus a lot more on players, like a tutorial video from a player, and see what he's doing. A lot of times I watch it on mute because what they say and what they do does not match at all,

right? And I'm probably guilty of that as well. It's what we feel. It doesn't necessarily mean that's exactly what you're doing. I mean, your golf swing to the Amateur Eye appears to be pretty much as simple as they come on the PGA tour. I know that there was a, I think the Memorial or something this year they had a, like a swing trace are going for you and they did it for pretty much everyone. And yours was the closest trace on the back swing to the down swing. And I just found that interesting. I'm wondering, you know, why we don't see, see more players with shorter swings in Pro Golf and whether or not you would describe your swing as simple.

I'm going to say to everybody listening here. and this is where you know I've done a lot of studying of this. Be careful when you watch a video down the line on where the camera angle is set. You have to be careful because if it's not perfectly online the club path is going to appear wildly different to what it really is. I am way more inside the it really is. I am Way more inside the line down swing that I am on the backswing. That is just the fact I've seen that video you're talking about. I believe it's from last year of memorial And me and Tony Fino actually talked about it because we saw replay once and we were laughing at this is the very first time

In our lives we saw each other swing BS close to path. That's as I saw on that video. So that's why I mean, you know, there's many more players that have it way more online than I do, back swing compared to downswing. But I think you have to understand the characteristics of a lot of people, right? I'm a taller player with, let's say, more long legs than arms, right? So when I swing, I'm so much closer to the ball, I'm more on upright path, where I don't have that much room to drop the club inside. When you have somebody who's farther from the ball,

it's going to have much more room to maneuver it. But, yeah, I guess I go based on simplicity. I'm not a person who thinks about where he's hands it. I'm more, uh, his hands are. I just more about body rotation. And Gary player said it once, and Ben, uh, his hands are. I just more about body rotation and Gary player said it once and Ben Hogan said it as well. Once you get to the top, if you let your fires, your hips, your hips fire properly, that club is gonna

fall into the slot perfectly. That's probably why it's not much of a discrepancy, right? Once I get to the top, the top of my swing, I'm all hips and I just let it go from there. And you said you're, you know, you're a technical geek, but also to hear you say you're a numbers geek, are you into the, the analytics and are you looking to where you can shave off point one strokes by driving it here and set it here? And I'm wondering what that process is like for you. Oh, hell no. No. God, no. I actually mean my caddy have fun with the people that use stats and make this strategy based on stats. It's just funny because

I've never worked that way, right? I just, my brain is never really, I don't make a strategy before I T off. I get to the T, look at where the pin position is, look at the conditions we have, and then from there I've made a strategy. That's about it. There are some holes in some cases where I'm like, I'm there no circumstance, I'm going to hit more than X of the T here or I won't go for this ring unless I have let's say four iron or less. You know the certain circumstances but for the most part much like Sevy there's no gameplay. I get to the T see where the pin position is and basically I trace back which is the best spot on the fairware for me to attack this pin and what do I need to hit to put it there. That's pretty much how I think about it.

What about in between tournaments as far as just looking at what you've done well, what you need to improve on, which ways you're trending in certain areas. Is that something you look at? Yeah, but how long of a period are we talking about? Right? Like I'll, I'll usually, if I'm working on something, you need some time to put that into effect, right? You've got to be able to try this on tournaments to see if it's working or not. That's kind of where where I'm at, right? You've got to do it on the pressure when it matters most. So that's why, you know, if it's one week

to the next, I'm not really going to look into it because there's not enough data to support anything, right? So I usually do it every couple of months, you know, three, four months. If I were to think about next year, and I'm, and if I'm trying to improve something, I'll be working on it, and I'll look maybe right before the masters, see if it's trending the right way or not, because you need enough events and different weather conditions to make sure you're doing something properly. At least the way I think about it, some people might look at it every single week and want to know a significant difference, but you know it all depends on what

courses you're playing and what you're playing right. When you're playing Torda Pines, you're not hitting many wet shots. So your stats can either be really good or really bad depending on how those three shots went the whole tournament right. If you're playing an event like Palm Springs where every other hole you're hitting wedges, you know, it's going to be much more valuable. Do you ever look at stats and are very surprised either good or bad at how different categories net out I hear, you know, Rory at CJ Cup was talking about how great he was sitting his irons, how poor he was driving it. He was leading the field and driving and was negative strokes gained in

approach despite what he felt. Does it? Does that ever feel different than what the numbers say? Sometimes, yeah. Well, I guess it is different than what the numbers say? Sometimes, yeah. Well, I guess it is relative to the field, right? So I guess Rory was, even if he wasn't feeling good, it's still better than the rest. It's relative to the field, not to what you think you could do, right? So that's kind of where I see it.

So for the most part, in my case, the matchup, for the most part, right? If, you know, like, you might, like when you're in the West Coast swing, a pebble or a Tory with your greens, can get a little bit bumpy. You know, it's point that greens in the afternoon can get bumpy and you think you've made no parts and you look and you're gaining structurally feel. You're like, okay, maybe all of us had a hard time, right? So it's just, it's a little bit, uh, conditional to where you're at. Yep.

Well, we love to make jokes about how broadcasters always say the word perspective. Whenever they have any kind of mention of a tour player having a child, either having one on the way or just have one, they always just say perspective perspective. And your play was great and it got even better after having a baby. And that does not happen to everyone. How did you manage to get even better during that time period? something, you know, I've maybe a country to people, people's image of me. I'm a very responsible

person who takes care of the people around him, right? I'm the only person who's in his own bachelor party had to be the one to behave because everybody else wasn't going to behave, right? I know I couldn't count on them. So I've been almost like not a dad, but like a big brother, a lot of my friends when certain situations, right? I'm a dedicated responsible person. So I think she always saw that me being a dad would almost give me somebody or something else to play for more than just myself. And to a point, she was right. And something we're both looking forward to for a very long time.

She had such a good pregnancy, and all the things got to be said, right? So yeah, no problem. He was actually happier pregnant. He was one of the few people that ever get that and that only made it easier for me, right. The fact that there's no stress on her, there's no stress on me. She's just happy as can be, right. It's just one less variable for me to think about what I'm playing and when he was born, everything went so well. He was so healthy that you know, I just went to play. It was hard in Augusta because it was the first that, you know, I just went to play. It was hard in Augusta because it was the first week and, you know, it was two days old and I had to leave to go play the masters. And it was a little bit odd in that sense, but after the PGA kind of started

to generalise in it. And not so much what you're playing, it's almost when I'm done playing, again, like you said, perspective and humility. Just because when he sees me, he couldn't care any less. If I shot 61, 65 or 85, he looks at me and expects that. And it's made it so much easier for me to flip my switch to where I see him. I'm dad, I'm husband, I'm John, I'm having a good time. And then you know, go off his secondary, whatever. So, over and over, right?

I feel like even if I knew before it really puts again into perspective what's important in life and while I'll still get upset when I miss a shot on the golf course once I'm done playing golf I'm done with my round and I'm done doing what I have to do it's it's over you know flippest switch we're smiling we're happy you want to affect my mood of the golf course, what I do on the golf course. And that's I think the biggest blessing it could have given me. I've always been pretty good at keeping it separate, but you know, after losing the tournament, it does make it a lot easier to process. Not that I ever want to feel like that again, but it definitely helps. Just because again, everybody has a badly at the office.

There's nobody else's fault for yours. And your child still respects you to be dad and be the person he wants you to be, right? So it's a blessing in that sense. It's giving me the blessing of perspective. And for a 26-year-old who thought already had a pretty good grasp on it it which made it that much better. And so, yeah, you win in your third major start since becoming a dad. You win the US Open at

Torrey Pines and you mentioned your 26-years-old. So, I admit that this question feels kind of absurd to ask from a media perspective, but I'm wondering how you felt were you starting to feel the pressure at all to get your first major championship? Had you felt that either internally or externally in any way prior to winning it, Tori? Internally. Yeah. Yeah, I've wanted to do it. And when you're high ranked and I'm winning tournaments, both in PGA Tour and European Tour and to be fair, I hadn't really even been in contention in a Sunday up until that

one. I like, yeah, maybe on the second and last group, it's six shots back. Like, I had never, I've had some backdoor top 10s like I did at Keelewall, like I did at the Masters. Yeah, at the end of the day, I am top 10, but I came from behind and had a great final round. I was getting tired of not being in contention, right? I understand the thing, you get them put on that list of best players to never win a major real quickly, but I hadn't even had a chance. So in my mind, I knew I just needed to have the chance, and I knew I was ready.

I think the hardest part was Thursday and Friday for me to not shoot myself out the tournament. When you're standing over puts on the 71st and 72nd holes, can you ignore the fact that they're probably the biggest putts of your life yet? You know, what goes through your mind? Are you trying to stick to a process? How do you stay present in that moment? Well, they're only the biggest of you make them. If you don't, two more putts. You know, that Sunday was very unique. I felt something special the whole Sunday. And if you go back on the round, I'll keep, I hit good pot after good pot after a good pot. They're just, I'm very close from going in but they don't want to, right?

I mean, it's point of green. It's just, you're so open Sunday, you're not supposed to be dropping bombs left and right. On those two pots, I mean, you couldn't tailor two pots more to where the similarity to the greens already grew up where their point of greens and severely sloped, you know, I'm used to hitting pots that break a lot. That's where I almost feel more comfortable, right? I rather have two feet of break in a disc right pot. It's just weird. This is how I grew up and more uncomfortable.

So when I saw that pot in 17 at the end of the day, it almost expressed your off of me because you just, you kind of have to give it the right speed and all that big break and and two putt were good. I'm not gonna lie two putt were great from there apart. I was still one back. Sorry. I was time for the lead. So it wouldn't have been that that detrimental but I just felt good. I'll very I stick to a process. You know every time I get asked that question. We all have a routine for that to get your mind on the proper frame of mind to be able to hit that pot. And that's exactly what I was doing, and on both holes. If anything, I felt more of the pressure on 18, obviously because I knew that was not to seal the DO, but to make it a lot more difficult for Louis than on the other one. Have you, I guess, in your mind, what is the difference between the test, the requirement in the say, just a, whatever you want to call it, a regular PGA Tour event versus major championship?

How different is the test of golf? And I know each major is different, but I'm always curious why we see the same kind of names tend to rise up leaderboards at majors when Tour events almost feel like, you know, you have some guys that cycle in and out. I'm curious your perspective on what you think the different requirements are if they are different. Ooh, well, I think you almost have to leave a guest out of this because everybody gets to play a guest every year, right? So you could learn how to play that golf course. That is something you could learn how to play and try to find the strategy.

But at the end of the day, I feel like it's like any other sport, the better players just show up when the moment's the biggest. And I feel like golf related is, you know, such a mental sport. It's all about what goes through your mind. You know, I feel like a lot of the people on the field are playing a major for the first time, you're nervous, you're excited, you want to do well, and it's hard to put yourself in that situation. A lot, others might be a little bit scared of the golf setup, like it can happen in the US Open, like it's happened to me, you're T off scared. I have done that.

And as a general norm, especially in the weekend, it's just the bigger players trying to take advantage of an opportunity. And that's why I think you see that. I mean, it's one of the examples of Brooks. I just simply, it matters more. Therefore, you show up with your game. I don't know. It's hard to explain, to be honest.

I wasn't that name until the last few majors since the Masters we had in the fall where I've been playing pretty good and showing up in the leaderboard. But before that I was one of those who maybe wanted it too much. You know, feeling like winning a major is something incredible and you have to take it one day at a time and a lot of times I was trying to win it on a Thursday. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Precision Pro. Of course, hopefully you're watching our YouTube series, Taurus Sauce, which is airing on Wednesdays

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We'll be up Wednesday night. 9 PM is our premiere and then you can always catch it. It was we travel around Michigan, you can catch it for eternity on YouTube. So let's get back to John Rom. What's an example of what you were tee enough when you were scared? And what did you learn from that?

Oh, Shinnecock. My God. So I get to the tee and it's like, well, you can't miss the far away, you that? Oh, Shinnecock. My god. So I get to the scene and it's like, well, you can't miss the farewell, you can't miss the green, you miss the green, you're not going to happen now. And I was just playing on a very, if you were that I wasn't playing my best, right? My swing wasn't feeling great. I was just trying to not miss instead of hitting the right shot, right, trying to hit a good shot. And that's

well, what happened happened. I think I shot whatever 13, 14 overs into the days and went home early. So you mentioned learning stuff at Augusta. What have you learned over the years at Augusta? And what gives you confidence that you'll be able to win a master someday? Well, I feel like Augusta lets you play your own game, right?

Does not want strategy that fits it. That's kind of it, right? Like, if you're not a straight driver, you don't need to be the best driver of the golf ball there. You just need to hit good eye shots and be able to get some up and down, right? It's, you get such a variety of different players that play good and win there that, you know, it's just, you got to learn how to play it yourself. I think the best advice I've gotten at Augusta was from Phil. He said, listen, contrary to popular belief, every hole at Augusta National except part five plays over part.

So parts are never bad. And when he told me that is when when something clicked right now you get to holes like Like three where you hit driver and you're 40 yards away and You think you have to make birdie, but you'd rarely see a birdie on that hole right holes like seven Where if you put it in the fairway you have pretty much no more than nine iron As a couple examples like that, you know nine where with the right wing conditions if you get it down there You have a wedge and you still see bogies and mistakes, right? So, there's no end to parts that aren't bad. Even on part five, you're not losing that much.

For those statisticians out there, you're losing 0.1 to 0.2 strokes, depending on the day. So, you really are missing that much. And I think that was the key. A lot of times you see people shoot 16, 17, 18 on their Augusta National but that doesn't happen every year, right? So just realizing that parts aren't bad is what was the biggest key. Phil was giving me the example when he went on 04, he parted 15 when he had a chance to make birdie and then ended up birdie and 16 and 18. Just because he knew that

in the past, it's made the mistake of being too aggressive and making a big number at the wrong time and Realizing that force and fives and threes, you know at the right time are really really good obviously so I think that's the best advice I've gotten because Technique wise each one plays the golf course the way they see fit right because they actually have quite a bit of room to maneuver the ball the way you want. And yeah you mentioned that you maybe haven't been in contention in contention at the Masters but you've played five Masters in your top four in ten of them including each of the last four. So I think it does seem like you're learning something incrementally year over year that you play in that event. So I feel like if you have a Spanish passport, you're going to play a world there.

That's just going to happen. Well, we caught up briefly after your match concluded on Sunday at the Ryder Cup. And you were just buzzing. Despite the result of your match that day and the team result, you were just overjoyed, if I may say, just from your experience that week. What is it?

How would you describe it? Why the Ryder Cup gave you that feeling? Or what was it about this particular Ryder Cup that gave you that feeling? I think a bit of it was not a fake smile, but a smile cover and not the pain of losing. Just trying to keep a smile on and not be too upset in front of the camera, especially

while people were playing. I didn't want my teammates to see me all down on myself just because we were having a bad day. I wanted to even sell me to at least get a glimpse of a smile, knowing that I was encouraging them. But at the same time, I had a lot of fun in the golf quiz with Sergio that week. Those two days, the first four of all we played with how good we played and see in the which made Sergio the greatest radical player of all time was very, very, very, unique and hands down. That was the most fun I've ever had in a golf course in my life. It's the satisfaction of maybe one in a major, one in a turn, a minute, different, but as fun comes, that was the most enjoyable time in a golf course it turned them in is different but as fun comes that was the most enjoyable

time on a golf course, those few days with him, you know, especially when I made that long part of 16 of Saturday afternoon that was probably one of the most fun moments I've had in my career, it was very unique just to share that with somebody like him, you know, somebody I looked up to for so long, it's just too bad, you know, we're not going to have, we're not similar age and we're not going to have, you to have five or six more riding cups to look forward to. But while we can both play the riding cup, I'm definitely going to enjoy it as much as I can. As an American fan, it's going to take a lot more to convince me that Sergio won't be playing five or six more of these.

I think he's going to be striking eight irons of the flag for eternity in my eyes. It is, it is incredible. Like when he's standing over the ball, especially being him, I have full confidence that he is just gonna absolutely strike but at the pin because he didn't do anything but that all week. This pretty incredible, besides the T-Shots on one where he admittedly was trying to hit it so hard that he just missed them, everything else. Yeah, I mean, he just gets there and hits a perfect shot.

I mean, iron shots were laser right at the pin. He's done it for 20 years, but when he's your teammate, it's that much more enjoyable. I was like, well, I just hope my 15 to 20-foot range pot is warmed up and we're going to have a lot of fun. And luckily, it was that week. Well, that's what one thing take away I had from watching you guys was seeing how you elevated each other and how, especially in forcems, you know, when you're alternating, how you guys complemented each other so well and how you were able to arrange the holes where, you know, he was hitting, I think you were, he was teaming off the odd holes, you were teaming off the

evans, which gave the, the iron plate, you know, gave him a lot of opportunities to hit a lot of mid-iron or long-iron into greens and it was just really cool to see like how teams actually worked both for ball and for sums. I've always said for ball, you know, you can kind of pair up whoever doesn't really matter. You just play in your own ball, but I really got a sense of like what it kind of does to the other team to have another guy, you know Well number one player in the world and also another guy who's throwing darts iron wise in on repeat how hard that is to be Well, I mean to be fair You know it surges a great ball striking. But let's let's not say that ball striking is is my weakness

We're both so good to the grain that we could have chosen any strategy, which is the way they told us that's wise. I couldn't care any less where I teed off. And they were like, well, whoever teased off on the event has more putts. We were like, OK, well, I guess I'll put. I think it was also more of the fact that if you teed off

on the odds, you have three part threes to deal with. Yeah, three, you had seven and you had 17 and I liked the t-shirt on 18 as well. I liked the t-shirt on 16 and I wasn't so sure about some of those par threes. I feel like the way Surgey hits the ball, it complimented better. So and a lot of those par threes were kind of like just hit it to the center of the grain and let's see if we can make something happen and I think that's why it worked, right? He was supposed to just give me a birdie chance and I was supposed to make it. And when I started making those butts the first day,

I got so much confidence that that's why it worked. So well, right? I mean, we kind of executed the plan. You're supposed to have. And when the guys hit it, I mean, six and five irons and those long far threes, right at the pit and just giving me out, she does, like, well, let's take advantage of it.

So take us in that team room, you know, because from what I've gathered, there's been some great stories about the energy in that room, how the new members of the team, you know, were celebrated, the videos, and the production and the hype. Can you tell us what all that was like? And, you know, is that something that, you know,

contributed greatly to your enjoyment of the week? You know, the European production team does such a good job that week with the videos, the fun videos, and the motivational videos. I feel like I can't tell you how it is in the US team because obviously I haven't been a part of it. But when you go into the right cup, you better be ready to laugh at yourself in our team room because that's basically the whole point of that. the right cup you better be ready to laugh at yourself in our team room because that's basically the whole point of that they're gonna find something that

might make you mad and just make jokes after jokes and video after video trying to get you a little bit more looks right like to get to just forget about your ego forget about certain things with part of a team we all make fun of each other and it is great to see all this players that have accomplished so much just having a good laugh, right? All this 40-some-year-olds acting like all of us, 20-some-year-olds, right? It's really, really cool to see that.

And that also makes it that great atmosphere, right? As soon as you walk in, I think everybody senses it. And we kind of naturally just gravity toward each other like that. And then those videos they make, I mean, they're emotional, you know, yeah, they're really, they're really, really unique. They really hit deep in the heart, and the history of the team and the history of the European tour. So they do a great job with it. And Kyle Porter wrote a great piece for CBS about the team aspect of the Ryder Cup and how, how strongly that differs from the atmosphere week to week on the PGA tour. And a lot of it was kind of a reaction to Rory's reaction, obviously being very emotional

after his Sunday singles match. Just the perspective on how lonely Pro Golf can be at times, and I'm just wondering what your perspective is on all that. And it just seemed like that week in particular, even in a losing effort, the European team or the people that we heard from, just had such strong feelings and emotions towards that week, and I'm just wondering what your perspective is on that.

Well, it's really hard to explain. I mean, you had Rory crying on TV, you had Lee West we cried on TV, you had Ian Polter and Pretty Sure and Tears on TV, and a couple others that were on TV. So, I don't know how to explain it completely, right? I mean, you have your playing for so much more than just yourself, yourself, the country you're representing

and the whole continent, right? It's, you know, you win as a team and you lose as a team. And I think, like I mentioned earlier, there's a state of vulnerability when it comes to being an athlete, especially in an event like that that I don't think people realize, right? You put your heart and soul into it and sometimes it doesn't work out. So when you don't win a match, it's easy to feel like you let it down. The team wouldn't, that couldn't be farther from the truth, right?

I mean, we're all proud of each other because we're all trying as hard as we can. And that's why I think you see some of the emotions come out, right? I mean, you have Rory who's had nothing but success in the Radikop and of the Radikop. And just they didn't have a good week and he felt it. He's been a powerhouse in European team for many years now and to not perform like he wants himself to perform can be painful like that. And I felt the same thing. I mean, I came in on my rookie radicup, tell four-play in the world, play in amazing.

And me and Rosie last the first match against Brooks and Tony Finau, and God, I was nearly in tears. I felt so bad for the team, right? And that was the first date. I can't imagine on Sunday. So it's one of those things that it's very hard to explain unless you get to experience at yourself. Just by being on the team room, you would understand.

And I'm trying to do my best to put it into words, but I know I'm not doing nearly enough justice. Let me try to help because he had a line in that article, especially it said, failing together can be far more meaningful than succeeding alone. And it sounds weird to say that, but I'm wondering, and I've heard, you know, Rory say similar things. I've heard David DuVall say things that, you know, when they've won big tournaments in their life, the feeling that they've had either shortly after or immediately after did not match their expectation for how that would feel. And I don't know if that helps at all kind of describe

what you're saying or if you've experienced that at all in your career. I would say the dure-ench de duration, right? Like when I feel when I want an event, this pretty much when I expect it to feel, but I think for most people that haven't experienced it, it won't last as long as you think. You think it will last forever,

but when it's an individual sport, after maybe 10 minutes is gone, like you've done it, and it's over, right? It's a big sense of relief, I believe, after the tournament is done, and when you have part of a team event, win or lose, I think that lingers a little bit, you know, a part of both and that win, you know, you want to celebrate it. Your state of euphoria is so much higher just because I feel like you're connecting the 12 players and by captains and captains altogether, right? So it's more like a 16-1 in that sense, right? So it's multiplied quite a bit. I don't think I think the feeling is not an underwhelming feeling.

It's just the duration of it is so much longer. And same with the loss, right? I mean, it's just you can feel it for a longer period of time. Now I can also say you're talking about if you take the players, you have talking about 12 individuals who for two years, well I guess the European teams every two years, you know, you play alone 99.9% of the time. You're in your caddy, you win or lose as an individual, whatever you do is you win or you lose, it's all your fault or it's all your what you've done, right? I mean, it's you're the one to blame whatever is good or bad, right? And I don't think we're used to dealing with emotions of the 11 or the guys you're playing with, right?

I don't think we're used to the extra energy and taking on other people's emotion. And you also don't want to put any of yours into other people, especially if it's negative, right? I think we're just not used to being a part of the team. And that's why I think you see a lot of those things that happen on the Reddica. That's what makes it unique. That's what it's so unbelievable about it, right? I mean you have 24 of the best players in the world who come as one and even made Brokes and Bryson hug each other. That never happens. It's ever gonna happen again. This besides in the Reddica, right? So it's

It's quite special and I feel like only people that Ryder Cup, right? So it's quite special. And I feel like only people that have played a team event would have looked, explain it. I don't think I'm doing the best job. No, it takes like, this is probably my sixth or seventh Ryder Cup covering in some capacity. And it's taken this long for me to feel like I'm starting to understand that, right?

In terms of, you know, just the fact that, yeah, when you win something, it's, it's, it's just you, like you don't have anyone to share, you have your family and whatnot to share it with, but you don't have teammates to share it with. And it, I don't know, this, this, this time around really resonated for me, I think. And I'll ask this about kind of the future of the Ryder Cup as well. So you're up dominated in 2018, the US dominated in 2021, but home teams have won seven at the last eight and 10 at the last 12.

So I'll just ask you this. Do you think the home field advantage is too big in the Ryder Cup? No, okay. Okay, not that I'm used to getting controversial statements and not that this is going to be, but I do believe COVID made this a much more favorable environment for the US.

I told you. Just because we had four or five European fans. That's it. There was 45,000 people allowed on the golf course that week, not counting family and friends, which wasn't that much. 44,995 were American. So the problem with us is we knew that any cheer we heard was something bad and then any silence, right? So, and then the cheers are overblown.

Like, usually when you hit a wedge out to 30 feet, there's no clouds. And the US team hit a wedge out to 30 feet. It's not a great shot and they're going crazy, right? So it's hard as a player when you're going out. It's not here anything, right? You couldn't, you didn't know it was going on as a team. And I think that's what could make it really hard, especially for, for the first timers. Me and Sergio,

being the ones going to first so often, I think made it easier just because, you know, there's nobody in front of you. You kind of got to win that point, right? It's an important one. But besides that, it was just odd to not hear anything, right? You have no support. I feel like any given year, you might get out on maybe five to 10 ten thousand Europeans I show up and you have a presence we have none that you know walking into the first tea it was total total enemy territory which I particularly loved I had a great time it was you know me and Sergio embraced it we had a good time and then we embrace the silence but you know I can see how we can be a little bit different in other cases. But I do think there's a home feel of banage and that's it should be. I mean every sport has it. It's just, it's just how it is.

And I'll also say, you know, I talked about this too with Patrick Harrington. That COVID could not have been a great thing in general for the Europeans as a whole. I mean, you guys are used to playing, you know, a fair, it's fair amount of your golf split around the world, more so maybe than the American players. And, you know, a lot of you have homes in the US and whatnot, but just it was not the same effect COVID in terms of your schedule, worldwide and overall just the, even with the way the teams formulated, right?

I mean, I feel like that's kind of a story that hasn't been totally, you know, told in recent months. I mean, can you believe, can you believe that we got approval for my parents? I think everybody's parents to go to the right cup. I think it was five days before they had a travel or maybe a week. We didn't know if our family was going to be able to come, right, coming from Europe. I think that's a ludicrous thing about it. You're talking to one of the biggest events in the world that has

45,000 fans yet. I don't know if my parents can come from Spain. I had actually told them we couldn't do it. And it was three days later when I found out that they found their waiver to come in and they did. There's a big difference this year in that case, right? I mean, just our support, our family, we didn't know if they were going to be able to be there. And that's some of the things, I mean, it's not an excuse, but that's one of the things that COVID made it so much more difficult, right? If your parents live in the US, well, they could, because it's easier in the US, but international travel made it so, so difficult for them to be able to come. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the examples, right? It's just COVID didn't make it any easier for anybody.

No, it most definitely did not. And it's everyone's favorite topic, of course. And I know it's a topic you've covered extensively since the memorial. But it was one of the wildest scenes of the year, where you're putting on all the time performance at Memorial. And we don't know this as fans watching,

but you've been in the testing protocol for several days prior to this knowing that there was a chance you could Test positive due to being exposed to somebody. So, but are you thinking about that while you're putting on this performance? Are you at all thinking about the possibility of testing positive while you're playing? No, but I was aware that there was a possibility. Yeah. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. I don't know how to explain it. You know, I had gotten vaccinated shortly before. And I spoke about this too. I had the J&J vaccine appointment done.

And literally 30 minutes before I got to the clinic, is when they call them back. They suspended it for the block-out problem they had for a second. And that's why mine got delayed because then we had the PGA and I was like, well, I'm not gonna take it right before. I'm not gonna recite a fake level line.

That's why I did what I did. And I was in contact with somebody who tested positive and then throughout the week, I wasn't feeling my best, but I was like, well, it could be side-effect you never know right I mean I didn't have a fever I just felt like a little cold right my throat wasn't feeling great and I just felt like you know not a hundred percent I wasn't feeling my best and I even told Adam when we're starting the third

round like 10 minutes before I'm like dude you know I'm a little bit a little bit extra time I'm not feeling great and Who would have known that as soon as the gun went off my mind just completely shifted? I forgot about it. I just you know The adrenaline took over and when I finished and they told me the In the first shock is like are you kidding me right? I'm putting a record performance when they're supposed to have tough and Disgolf course for nothing low to ever happen again again and I'm here 18 on at the three rounds hoping I could you know set some kind of squadron record and be the second back-to-back

champion and all those things you know I have my mind set on you know rewriting some history books stuff because that's feeling that good and you know when I saw my trainer come down with a doctor, I knew right then and there I'm like, okay, I know it's positive. I just knew because my trainer, there's no reason why he would come. Now for people that don't know this, the main reason why they came is because they didn't want me being, you know, physically touching people on the crowd, like high fives or anything, and then, you know, presenting the positive test. But you know as much as it could have maybe handled been handled a little bit better, I still think they did the right thing they had to

tell me before. I just wish we would have found all this out way earlier so I wouldn't just put the performance I did in the last few holes and you know. You know what makes me more mad about all this when he comes to stats? He counts as a WD. I know. Which I have never withered on from a tournament and I won't just don't count it as a start because then he will say it says that last year I had 22 starts 15 top 10s, it's really 21 starts 15 top 10s or at least do me the decency to give me a top 10 because even one handed I would have been able to finish in the top 10 that week. After what I, you know, with the six-shot lead, right? So it kind of misses more and more in my mind,

that I will never WD from a tournament, unless I physically can't pick up the club, right? So it's just, it almost makes me more mad that if you're gonna force me to withdraw, don't count it as a start, just towards future stats. You know, if I'm not gonna get paid, I don't get anything of this. Just somehow change that. But getting back to what I was saying, because I was aware that it could have happened,

I actually got over it much quicker than people think. Honestly, people think, people I've talked to, think I probably still mad at it. And like, not really, I mean, it's COVID. I'm just happy that everybody in my household was healthy. I've had friends that. I have really good family, friends die from COVID. And it's not a fun thing to talk about. It's not a fun virus to be making fun of because people are truly dying out there. Some others may not be getting many side effects, but if you get a bad one, you know, odds

of surviving are not very high. And if anything, I was thankful that everybody I was around either didn't get it or if they did, it was mild, especially my wife and my kid. God, I was really worried about that. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that ends, my next question was, you know, your press conference at the US Open was about as thoughtful and as grounded as imaginable.

And it, it, it, it sounds like it didn't take you long to reach that conclusion. And I had, you know, just in seeing your reaction off coming off the green Saturday, I, in my mind, it probably would have taken you a couple days to reach that, you know, kind of more grounded conclusion, but it seems like it was, you were able to get there faster

than we may have been interpreting. About 20 minutes. Yeah, wow. I got into the scoring area. I threw a fit in the scoring area because I was pissed. And then talking to my perspective, when I thought about my child and called my wife,

I went to that little trailer. They have for the people that are in contact tracing. We ordered a couple of Buckeye shakes from the clubhouse. And I was having a good laugh with my caddy. We were laughing. First of all, because we couldn't believe the situation. And second of all, because we were all aware it could happen. And taking it to the bottom point as well is,

if we're talking off-wise, we're a week and a half away from the US Open and I just put the performance of my life. I should be happy about the state of my game, right? I'm happy about that. I guess I'm going to have a couple days to rest at home because I'm not allowed to leave. So try to be happy about that. And then, yeah, I mean, I got over it. It's just once I realized, you know, Kip us healthy, Kelly's healthy, her parents, not have been in contact, are healthy. There was no reason for me to really be upset, right? It is what it is.

Things happen, you move on. I always choose to think on the bright side of things. I'm always gonna be positive in every single situation, even though I drive my wife absolutely nuts. I'm that guy. Oh, baby could happen. I'm always the positive guy. And yeah, I mean, I got over it. And like I said in that interview as well, I told Kelly as well.

I'm a believer in karma. And when something happens, I feel like I was owed something and I told her, I don't know what it's going to be. I don't know if it's going to be me winning something or us getting maybe another great perfectly healthy, brain-eating child. I don't know, but something good is coming. And as I stood on that tee and Sunday at the US Open,

I knew that was the day. So, you know, it's just, it evens out. At the end of the day is gonna even out. And another thing that, correct me if I'm wrong, I've not heard you speak on before this year. I think it was in July, you had mentioned that you were born with a club foot. And one, have you ever, I guess,

people in golf known that, or is there any reason why people maybe didn't know that? And you know what, explain to us kind of what you were, you were saying this summer about what, how you learned to swing the club, or how that is affected your swing First of all, I'm gonna note this because I heard on a podcast This is back to what we're talking about before. No, I was not trained to do that interview

I did at the US Open that press conference. I was not told what to say. I actually was sent a spreadsheet of points to go through and I basically threw it back in my manager's face and I told them I was going to be myself. So I heard it on a podcast and it's been lingering in my mind. That was 100% me, 100% John Rom, just being honest. Like I've always have been in interviews, but people have so been caught up on the fact that it's just an angry golfer that they couldn't get past that. And if Covid, that Covid situation that anything for me, people got to see who the true John is. Right? And it's, you know, there's been a shift in popular opinion big time in that case.

You know, they got to see who truly, who I truly am, not who they thought I was. Yes, I get angry on the golf course because what I do matters to me, but this a very small part of who I am as a person. And I feel like I had to say that because I don't usually say it, but I just, you know, every interview I've done, nobody has ever told me what to say. It's me a hundred percent. And I'm actually a strange person, and I can be in every single one of them. That's why I feel like maybe I don't know. They're boring to watch or or you just don't believe what I'm saying. But you know, that's just me.

I've had the same reaction every time. We did a podcast three and a half years ago or so. And I think, we talked about the temper, you know, but it's all like, I think everyone reacted to that podcast and say, wow, I really learned something about that guy. And I feel like this year was, correct me from this year felt like the most comfortable in your own skin you've been as far as embracing,

doing interviews or whatnot, it feels like you are, you know, it's part of growing up, you're trying to learn, you're, you know, you're trying to be yourself, yet learn the ropes of being a professional athlete, and it's gotta be, you know, there's some evolution in that. And it felt like this was the clearest we've gotten to see, like who you actually really are this past year.

Is that fair? Well, I've learned a lot about myself and the birth of K-Pi also made me learn a lot of things about myself, but I also feel like, well, I don't know, maybe since I got the number one of world and, or I've been playing good enough for five years, I achieved the level of validity that I didn't have before. I don't know.

It just seems like now. For some reason this year, people have listened to what I've said a little bit more. I don't know why or what it's been, but I feel like I've been given a bit more credibility if I didn't have it before. It's almost a feeling I have, but yeah, I could also be because I'm so much more comfortable on my own skin and in my life, you know, I think that that could be it as well. Maybe I'd transmit what I want to, what I want to transmit in a better way than I did before. Who knows? I mean, I can't really tell you. Yeah. Well, I don't know how we got there with that when I asked about the club foot, but that was very interesting. Sorry, I was my... Sorry, I'm up in.

The club foot thing. This makes me laugh because this is when I can say, you know, I get criticized when I do, when I hit bat shots in the golf course and all that. So I'm going to criticize all your journalists right now. Okay. Do your job better. Okay. Do your job better. Okay. I've been dropping hints for somebody to ask me the question so many times in so many interviews.

If you go back to interviews, I say everybody has limitations on their body that dictates how you could swing. I've said that sentence for five years in a row. And it takes this older lady in the UK to finally catch on and say, what do you mean? And that's when I can finally explain because I'm not going to sit up there and just are saying, oh, I have a club foot, you know, like I started explaining my life. You have no many, how many times there's one journalist I'm not going to say who, who's really good friends with my swing coach and kept saying that I swing short because I have

tight hips, which couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm like, dude, if you know my swing coach, why aren't you calling him to actually get some info on why I swing the way I do, right? And for people that don't know, my swing coach is Dave Phillips. I think it's co-creator of TPI. Yeah, I was born with a club foot which for people that don't know, basically, my right foot looked like a 60 degree lob, which I can tell you that right now. From the ankle down, my foot was 90 degrees turn left and then the inverse. So basically the sole of my foot was facing backwards and almost up and then turning internally, right. And what happens at least back then is I was born. They basically sent me to a specialist.

He broke my ankle into place, basically. It just relocated the foot, broke every bone there and I was casted immediately. The first time my mom saw me, I had a cast on, after being born 20 minutes in. And, you know, when you're that young, you grow so fast that I had to go, I believe, to the hospital every week to get recasted,

to fit my leg properly. But even then, my right leg from knee down, to the hospital every week to get recasted to fit my leg properly. But even then, my right leg from knee down grows at a smaller rate. So it's a centimeter and a half shorter, which is just over half an inch shorter. And my right foot is also smaller. And my right ankle mobility is extremely, extremely limited. That's why I swing short.

Because if I go higher up, I tend to lose balance and I don't have the strength in my ankle to control the speed I could create. So that's why I have a short swing, you know, to simple as that. I just, I also grew up doing other sports. People know it as high a lie in the US for people that know nothing with the wooden hook but just the wooden paddle and it's a lot of sports that were very similar you know you don't take the paddle or the racket past shoulder height and I learned how to create power that way so you know it's what made me more accurate it's what it was easier for me to keep balance and keep control of and because

of that physical limitation I just kept going kept going from there and is what made me made my swing the way it is that's why I swing the way I swing now also have a boat wrist because i know that's how i naturally create power with my wrist i also have hyper mobility when i bow it but i can't really cap it that much so my wrist naturally you know fall that way and that's what I mean by limitations right I feel like TPI has done a great job creating a screen process

to know what your body can or cannot do and trying to copy other swings is just not going to work out because physically you might not be able to do it right so I would say for the younger generation you don't necessarily need to work out all day and try to get, you know, super strong, but understand how your body moves and what your body can or cannot do is going to be very, very beneficial for you. I haven't tried to change technique on my swing in 10 years now almost. Maybe a little bit less. Eight.

No, 10 years is good. Maybe even more than 10 years. And it's because of that, I realized early on that I couldn't do certain things. And I was like, well, this is what I got. Let's try to get as good as we can with this swing. And now you can obviously work out and treat certain parts of your body to complement that physique and those limitations. I like to say guidelines, those guidelines that one has.

And that's what I do. And that's what is kept me really healthy. And that's one of the keys to my consistency, I believe. I tailored my swing to what my body can do. That's fantastic stuff. We're going to get you out of here. We really appreciate the time you spent with us. Well, I'm going to get you out here with this final questions.

One, what's your energy level at the end of those wildest 15 months of golf that I can really, to my knowledge, the wildest 15 months or busiest 15 months in my history of covering golf at least. And what a successful 2022 looks like. I know it's two questions, but just want to get you input on that before we take off. So I think the end of the year and

right of cup kind of really did me end. I mean, I went to the US Open. I feel like since April when Kippa was born just last six months, mentally, we've gone through a lot. Good and bad. Right. I feel like it's been it's taken a lot of a big toll on my in my mind. And I can tell you this last day on Friday and Valorama,

I was dragging myself around the golf course tour. There was a couple times where I was trying to try my best to play good golf, and I would look at a shot, and my mind was completely blank, because I could just not process I was that tired mentally. I've never reached that point and I realized a couple days ago why I was. Basically, from the restart in COVID on June of 2020,

till last week, I really didn't have any rest, like none whatsoever. We finished this season, even in the fall, we have the US Open, CJ, Zozo, and the Masters, right? Now, for people that don't know this, between the Masters and Maui I think it was six weeks, I flew home from the Masters. The next day I jumped on a plate to San Diego and spent five days. Basically from San Rasta San said, on the range of colorway, working my body off trying to make sure everything was fit perfectly.

And even when I got back home, I kept grinding to make sure I was adjusted to everything I needed to when the season started. And I feel like, you know, not resting on that period when I got, you know, after the ride a cup, which playing five matches, a datig intensity on, you know, like I like to say, enemy territory, it was very, very draining. So yeah, I was, I mean, year and a half, I'm done stopping. I was done. I'm only a process.

I'm on week one of three weeks without touching a golf club, which I haven't done in a very long time, because I need it. It's my time to be a father, it's my time to be a friend, and just enjoy the life of a 26-year-old, which at the end of the day, even though I'm a husband, I'm a dad, I'm still 26. I'll be 27 soon and I'm just trying to enjoy it you know just a little bit of a reset. I'm still working out. I actually started

working out yesterday and my god I got out of shape in just a week. It's I drank a little bit more than I usually do. I'm not gonna lie but it's still I'm just you know I'm still tired that's a thing. I'm trying to get back into it just to make sure when I start hitting a golf club, I'm physically ready to be able to do it. But, you know, as well like to say, be a normal 26 year old man, go go karting, play pick a ball. I have a good friend and maybe go to a shooting range. You do a couple of different things that are not golf related.

Just, you know, reset the mind. I heard Tom Brady talk once, competitive stamina, and just making sure you can recharge that, not go overboard. We have one more event left this year, but the most part is going to be just relaxing. Now, for the next year,

I haven't set my goals yet. I haven't done a usually with mental coach and do an end of the year session with him, and then focus on next year. I haven't set my goals yet. I haven't done a usually mental coach and do an end of the year session with him and then focus on next year. You know keep doing the great job of doing on and off the golf course. The process I've had has been really really good this year. I think we're nailing down to our really worse for me. And obviously if I could choose obviously win a major again. That's a goal. win in a major is always a goal, but hopefully I can get again more than one win on the PJ Tour.

You know, it's able to do it last year. I want to get past that barrier of two wins and maybe get a year, a player of a year of worthy, worthy year. At least set my case with more than one win. And yeah, just trying to improve in that sense, trying to keep betting, getting better and being a better player but I haven't thought about it you know I haven't fully ended this year yet so this is just you know what anybody would say I usually go into details we go setting but yeah

I mean you know hopefully winning two plus times including the major it's it's a go well enjoy your rest man we really appreciate you spending some time with us. And other listeners will appreciate this insight and look forward to seeing you back. You got one more event you said in back out in 2022. So thanks again, and look forward to catching up soon. Take care. My pleasure, Chris.

Thank you. Good to be the right club today. Yes! That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. Expect anything different.