No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 495: Lee Janzen

Episode Date: November 8, 2021

We sat down with Lee Janzen a few weeks ago when he was in Jacksonville for the Furyk and Friends PGA Tour Champions Event.  Since we recorded with Lee he won his second Champions Tour event at the SAS Championship.  We discuss his PGA Tour career, highlighted by a pair of US Open victories, as well as his experiences as a rookie on tour, what separates golfers in major championships, the Ryder Cup, playing at Isleworth with Tiger, and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang up podcast, Sully here. We are not going to be recapping this last week in golf. We are coming off of a rain and wind soaked weekend at our nest invitation tournament here in Jack's Beach.

It felt very personal. The weather felt extremely personal. The only two bad days of whether we've had. And the last, basically like two months down here, we're on the exact two days that we were supposed to have this tournament. We appreciate everyone's effort that came down from all over the country.

We got in as much golf as we could, almost none of it, not being completely soaked. But we're not able to watch a lot of golf this weekend. So tonight's episode will be our interview from a couple of weeks ago, actually with Lee, Janssen. You know, we recorded this at the Furekin Friends consolation, a senior tour event here in Jacksonville. And of all things, I thought this is not a timely one.

We can kind of play this one whenever, you know, nothing within this is really necessary, you know, timeline wise, it's going to feel dated. Well, it turns out Lee Janssen would go on to win very shortly after this. He talks at the end of the podcast about, you know, what he still wanted to accomplish. He wanted to win on tour and I, you know, I saw some of his recent results. I kind of thought, man, that's, that's an ambitious, ambitious goal. And sure enough, a few weeks later, he's winning the SAS.

He's, of course, doing that with Calloway throughout the bag. He's been in the same epic speed driver since last December. He changed it to the 2020 10 S putter after he used the same putter for a very long period of time. He even surprised himself switching into a new putter, but it's been great. It proof was in the pudding when he drew in two puts. One so one on the 54th hole at the Sass and one on the first playoff hole to go on to a victory. Switch to the Chrome Soft X L L.S. Golf Ball, which has been very happy there. It fits his wedge game perfectly.

He's a high spin player. He wants his ball to hit and stop and never spend back. And the ChromeSoft X L.S. is the perfect fit for him. You can always, of course, find information about Calaway staffers, what's in their bag at CalawayGolf.com. So without any further delay, let's get to our interview from last month with Lee Janssen. I'm going to start you with a trivia question about your own career.

13. Across champions, PGA Tour and Cornfairy. How many career starts do you have? Oh, well, I could guess, let's see, probably over 800, but I had done it with Jeff Sloom and in Sioux Falls a couple of years ago when he played his 1,000th event of combined champions to a regular tour and I looked to see how many I had and it was about 750 then, but I didn't count the corn fairy.

So I'm guessing I'm somewhere over 800. 815, what's your reaction to that number? I wonder if I'll get to a thousand. It'd be nice. That means my body will hold up at least another seven or eight years. Is it purely body related at this point? I mean, what do you get out of champion sore golf? What do you get out of competing at the age of 57? Well, yeah, it's still a challenge. And there's some things I figured out in my golf swing and my game that I wish I had a known a And there's some things I figured out in my golf swing and my game that I wish I had known a long time ago,

but I'm also trying to figure out what I knew 30 years ago that I don't know now. But it's still very challenging. I enjoy it. It's more fun when you play well, obviously. And I still like going to play old courses that I haven't seen before. If we have a tournament wherever, and there's a great course,

like St. Louis Country Club, I finally got to play for the first time. I've been wanting to play there for 20 years. What do you still learn about the golf swing? That's interesting that you're unlocking stuff at this age. Right. So I don't hit nearly as many balls as I once did. I often wonder if I just, you know, groove myself into some bad habits over the years here and there and I have to go undo it. But I probably keep it a little simpler just about my backswing and impact are pretty simple

thoughts now. And if I'm get off of that, I can get back to it pretty quickly. So my ball striking doesn't change a whole lot from week to week. So if you were to do it over again, you would say maybe you would have hit less balls in your prime, is that fair to say, or what are the things you maybe you would have hit less balls in your prime, is that fair to say? Or what are the things you wish you did know back in the day? I wish I would have practiced more purposefully.

Okay. I started working with Mike Bender 15 years ago, and we don't ever have a practice session or a lesson without some specific training for feedback. He has a thing called the MEGSA, which is pretty amazing set up. When you're inside this square, he has the opportunity to put angles with sticks and foam noodles and other things throughout for the guy who moves off the ball for his head, for the guy who whips it inside, for the guy that swings out too much. So if you put all these devices there in the way, you know, they're there to help you swing where you're supposed to,

you would make a perfect swing without hitting any of them. Most swing devices are attached to you, you know, for training. But so that specifically gets you to swing properly and gives you immediate feedback. So I carry sticks around and when I get off a little bit, I set up a little swing plane or whatever and it gives me immediate feedback and tells me where I am. Do you dive into a lot of video? Rarely.

The only time I see my swings when I go see my, and that's over the last few years, I haven't seen them, but about one time a year. Do you not get a lot out of video or is that just something you've always just kind of just gone by feel? I usually about halfway through the first swing. I already wanna go back and hit balls

because I see it immediately and I go, there's no reason to watch form more of the same swing. So that happened to me that I was actually hitting it really good and I saw a swing on video and I said, I don't like how that looks and now I'm right back to square one. I'm not hitting it again. I'm not sure I actually have ever liked any of my swings

I've ever seen on video. So update is kind of on your PGA tour champions career. And kind of I want to kind of dive into, you know, I feel like I get kind of similar, but kind of somewhat different answers from everyone when I ask, you know, what do you enjoy? What do you get out of playing on the PGA tour champions? Well, it's, I think it's a gift first.

I don't think there's another 50 year old and older set of professionals that get to do what we do the way we do it. I think every other sport is basically just exhibition. This is an actual competition. You know, they're not official majors. We're not counting those against a regular tour, but the competition is very good.

It's never been better. The tournament records are being shot every time we play somewhere and courses are being set up more challenging. My first year pin placements were usually six and seven steps off the edge. Now they're three and four, just like the regular tours. It's not, you can't come out here in crews. No, you got a putt well too.

You know, you'd think older golfers don't putt as well, but these guys, everybody, they putt just as well as they ever did. When everybody's playing well, they're puttingt well. How different is a three round tournament versus four round tournament? Is there any kind of style difference that goes into that?

Well, if you don't play good the first day, it's a lot harder to catch up with three rounds. So, and in four days, it's a long haul. It doesn't seem like much one more round, but it is. It's just a little bit more of a sprint. So not like a Monday qualifier, but it's great to get off to a good start.

You shoot par on guys, shoot 64 was the first day. It's going to be hard to catch them. Right. How long does it take you to get to know golf course? I think that's still kind of an underrated aspect of being a professional. It's taken that show on the road every week. Learning the nuance of a golf course can be challenging. If you only get 18 holes, maybe look at it in a practice round.

What's, you're going through that here at the practice round here ahead of the furekin friends? What's the process for that? How easy is it to get to know a golf course in a week? Right. So what I do is probably different than almost everybody else. And I think everybody has their own little thing to figure out a golf course. You know, the Bob hope we had four courses and I'd see guys just getting a cart and drive

around them. You know, they'd hit a few shots here and there. That was all they needed. But I like to play the whole course and I try and scout out where I think the holes might be in the tournament and find out where the straight inin uphill putt is and draw an arrow in my book. So even when I'm hitting from the fairway I can look at that arrow and see, okay, this back pin, the ball runs away. Behind the pin I cannot hit it, pass the pin in the air.

And you can remember all those things by seeing, of course, once, but it's hard. Just the little extra effort of rolling balls on the greens, I get to know the greens a little bit better. It doesn't mean I know them perfect. I get to know the greens a little bit better. Doesn't mean I know them perfect, but I get to know them a little bit better. And when your approach outs are coming, I think that's some of the benefit there. My rookie year on tour, when I was able to play

the Monday program, and an extra practice round, I did better than the other weeks, where I only got a practice round on Tuesday. So at the end of the year, I noticed that. So I thought, okay, in the future, when I go to a new course, I need to see it twice. It sounds like maybe a no-brainer, but that's a lot of golf to play in one week, especially if you're playing a lot of consecutive weeks, is that fair to say? Yeah, very hard to get from one tournament to the next one, you're going to try and finish on Sunday

and then play the Monday program. What was qualification like, your first year on tour was at 89 or 90? 1990. 1990. Was it exemption categories, how'd that work? When did the rabbit system, I guess, go away? What was it like getting internments week to week?

Is it pretty similar to how it is now? Think sometime in the early 80s maybe, it was when that rabbit system stopped, and they even had two or school twice a year at some point and then they had Two chances at first stage for a while, and I think that stopped in 85 I know Rocco He's got you know his first time he tried two or school He missed the first stage, but there was a second chance at the first stage and he chips in from 90 feet on the last hole to get in a playoff

And then made it the second stage and got his card and he chips in from 90 feet on the last hole to get into play off and then made it the second stage and then got his card and he's been on two ever since. But he was like ready to quit. If I don't make it, I'm not going to play, which every pro's ever said, you know, they've always made statements like that. If I don't make this cut, I'm quitting or if I don't get it through two or school this year, that's it. Usually nobody follows up on that.

What was the landscape like in the early 90 like if I look at the tourist schedule now I don't know if there's 47 or something full you know Events that almost every one of them's over six million dollar purse But what was the landscape like in the 90s in terms of volume and and purse amounts compared to what it looks like now right? 1990 a million dollar purse was a big deal. I think Dorault was usually the biggest purse of a regular event. They always had a full field. Two or school rarely got in there. Phoenix, I think, we didn't play two courses, but I think they had a bigger field.

And then they realized what the frostal aides, they'd have to shorten the field there. Two sign we had two courses. That was a full field. But, you know, you got a lot more events as a rookie back then. It's harder sometimes on the rookies now. I don't know that, you know, out of of 47 how many they get if they don't do well early in the year. I know it's difficult with all the short field events now. Back then I played 30 events my rookie year. Coming out of I finished tied for

10th. I guess my number was 16. It was six of us that tied and I shot part of the last day and everybody else shot one under or even. So that's how they broke that tie. But I got to play plenty. I mean, there was a couple of events I was first alternating in, but I played 30 events in my rookie year. What do you remember fondly and maybe unfondly

about being a rookie out on the PGA tour? Well, one of the first things that struck me, the first two months on the West Coast, was how much water was on the golf course. Just water hazards. Yeah, yes, just right there. Just Tucson was desert, but Pebble Beach, the water there, San Diego, the water really wasn't that much in play on 18, but Phoenix is right there off the water and then Palm

Springs, all the water around the golf course. For somebody that wasn't used to seeing that much water that close to being in play, it was a little different. Where did you, for the listeners, where did you grow up and what was kind of your route to getting on the PGA tour? Right, I grew up in Lakeland, Florida. Did not play a whole lot of amateur tournaments, just didn't have the opportunity to go do that.

I played one summer of the Western Am, the Puerto Cove, the sunnyny Hannah, and this other name, and the USAM. And then the next summer, 86, I turned pro the second, my eligibility was out of school. I know some guys play as an amateur the next summer to see if they can win the US Amateur one more time or get in the master's or something that way.

And then maybe turn pro, but I was like, I was ready to go Monday qualifying and play in state opens and start making money. What was your self belief at that time? I mean, did you, it's always a weird thing to kind of look back and evaluate. You're here, you are playing professional golf a good 30 years later, but was there doubt in your mind

whether or not you were good enough to make it at the highest level at that point? I, you know, talking about having a, you know, back up plan or playing B, I never thought about that. I never thought of like, what am I going to do if I don't make it? It was never a thought. I was just going to keep trying until I got there.

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Sponsored season five of Taurus sauce. And you'll see us wearing original penguin stuff all throughout our travel series throughout Michigan that we're currently airing on our YouTube table titled Taurus sauce. So again, originalpenguin.com, let's get back to Lee Jansen. What was your welcome to the PGA tour moment? Walking out on a range, seeing somebody hitting balls next to a guy or a pairing you got or something Well, I qualify for the US Open in 1985. I was still in college. So that was having never played in anything significant

The floor stayed open would have been the biggest event I played it up to then and I played Oakland Hills and the US Open and my my roommate lives right near the core So he's counting for me for the week and we go on the range and he goes there's a spot right over there and Nicholas is hitting and Watson's hitting in the spot in between him. I said nope I'll just wait. I'm not gonna go over there and hit balls. As a college kid you should have seized that up. So yeah another friend had qualified that week and there's a little putting green. And he said he blocked out there with a sleeve of balls and opened his sleeve and the balls

fell out and laying on each other and scattered. And one on rolled over like behind, you know, right next to savvy and Tom Watson. He said he just turned around and went back and locked him and got another sleeve of balls. He said, I'm not even going to go pick those up, just so embarrassed. Were those guys, I mean, were veterans on tour, were they intimidating at that phase, were they helpful for you as a rookie in any way? What do you remember about most of those guys? Peter Jacobson, and he did it to me, and I've watched him do it ever since. He just introduces himself, and my locker being right next to him a lot of weeks.

He just high in Peter Jacobson, you ask all kinds of questions right away. So he always got to know everybody and of course, remember everybody too. You know, it's just different personalities. Coach Strange is not going to walk around the locker room, introduce himself everybody, but he's a guy that you would love to go fishing with or play golf with and have a beer, whatever. He does a lot of fishing. We're Facebook friends.

I see him out there fishing quite frequently. But because yeah, I look in and skipping ahead to at least, I was going to wait a little bit to talk right or cut. But I'm looking at you were the youngest player on the 93 team. If I if I if I did that right. And you're what's it like walking into a team room with I'm seeing Raymond Floyd, Lanny Watkins, Tom Kite, Fred Couples on that team. Seven Hall of Famers?

Seven Hall of Famers on that team, a little bit. What's that like being the youngest guy on that team? Oh yeah, it was a veteran team without a doubt. And to be 29 and be the youngest player on a Ryder Cup team, that's an unheard of now. I don't think that's going to happen again. How many guys were under 29 on this year's team? I think seven or eight of them, I think were. Yeah, you know, the 97 Ryder Cup I was right in the middle.

I, you know, it was just four years later and there was a bunch of guys younger than me then. But yes, what a group of guys. Very, very veteran. My wife, we were expecting she could not make the trip. She was the only wife that didn't make the trip. So it was a little different because I was solo that week and everybody else had their wives and being somewhat shy.

I didn't command the room ever. I just sat back and soaked it in. Because that's what it's amazing how often guys go to speak about their wives or their significant others being involved in. You ask how the week was and that is such a key component of it. I think I don't know if that translates for for golf fans at home, just how how important it is, all the off course stuff and just being having family involved, how important that is to a lot of the players.

Yes. So Ryder Cup, you know, your wife's going to be inside the ropes walking with you. And then all the functions you go to, she's sitting next to you. And of course, the little bit of time you're actually in your room, your best friends there. So it's really good to have her along. So you went to the 97 Ryder Cup and that was great that she was able to be there with me for the 97. I went and pulled up some old highlights of the 97 Ryder Cup.

But I need to hear a little bit of the story behind. I see you doing a few motions at the crowd. Maybe you kind of put in your hand behind your ear as if taunting the crowd a little bit. I need to know the story behind that. Well, Saturday, if you're looking, I would play a Monty and Langer. And every green, they would cheer like crazy when they stepped up on the green. So on the 10th, all right, when they Monty was about together, I quickened my step and got to the green right as he did and they started cheering. I took my hat on and waved and some guy in the crowd yelled, we're not cheering for you, Janssen.

Which, you know, I had more fun with that. It just, it kind of like, it didn't upset me, but I was like, and I made a putt on that hole and pointed to the guy and then made a putt on the next hole. We ended up not winning our match. It's a strange thing because of the rain in the morning. They didn't think we were going to finish and they wouldn't double cut and rolled the 18th green. We didn't know. So we played the last hole and it was almost dark.

But we just birdied 17 to get to 18. And they were putting for bogey, our partner for par, I'm sorry, from maybe around eight feet. And we were on the front of the green, it was alternate shot. And I was putting, and I had to hit a bunch of puts that week, and I liked the way I hit my puttin, and my puttin just kept going,

and rolled right by the hole like nine feet. And I did not have any clue who I hit it, you know, that far by the hole. And then I found out about an hour later that they had just double cut and rolled that green before we got there, which would explain why my putt went way by the hole and said it right next to the hole. They did that at the 2003 Masters in the playoffs.

I don't know if you ever heard that story between Lin Matisse and Mike Weir. They had double cut and rolled the 10th green in between the finishing of play. Now, I think if you remember, if you look back, Lin Matisse three puts it, I think, and Weir blows one by two. But I just, immediately when you said that, immediately maybe think of that story. Yeah.

Well, I know why they did it at the Raraka, because they were preparing for the next day, but the master's, that makes no sense at all. They're right. You have to play off, you think they just want to keep it the way it is. But yeah, that's quite bizarre. What else do you remember about, so that 97 event that I don't really remember that. I think 99 is kind of the one that really people,

you know, my age really remember fondly, but 10 and a half to five and a half going into the final day and the US team almost came back to win that one. That almost went very differently. Right. So, yeah, I guess to get back why I put my hand up to the crowd, I just started, you know, with the crowd instead of letting them get to you, I would just had fun with it over and over again, you know, and they would sing O.A. so I pretended they were saying O.

Lee. But anyway, they were just, I think the etiquette has deteriorated with the fans every Ryder Cup It just gets a little more saucy, but anyway, you know When you're on foreign soil, are you gonna hear things and whatever and there's no point getting mad just play better? From my match looking on the board after 15 I Could do the math and it looked like if I didn't win my match They were gonna clinch the Ryder Cup in my match on 17 where they liked to all gather and party and jump in the pond and everything. So I really didn't want to see that. And then when I hit it, I had 116 and when I hit it on the green on 17, it was like crickets. Oh no. So I put my

hand up like I don't hear you chirping now. That's what I was thinking. And then all of our USA fans started chanting USA. Oh, like, well, that's not what I was asking for, but I'll take it. And then all of our USA fans started chanting USA. Well, that's not what I was asking for, but I'll take it. And then I made my putt and we went to 18 and I hit it stiff and won that whole too. What's, I mean, everyone kind of describes playing the actual golf in the Ryder Cup as, you know, unlike any other event. But I'm amazed at how much good golf comes out

of an environment that is so unlike anything else you can prepare for, anything you could have possibly simulated at any other point in your life. Absolutely. I feel the same way. I am amazed at how good the golf is. Because on the first tee, it's like you're getting ready to play the 18th hole in your time for the lead. You know, that's what it feels like right from the first hole. And it's like that the whole way around for three days. Because thinking about like, you know, you're used to seeing highlights on golf channel or whatever by the end of the day with a whole field full of hundreds of guys in the field.

And there's not that many balls in play at the Ryder Cup and you still see chipids, putts, holdputs, all this stuff is just. Oh yeah, and hold shots from the fairway. Yeah, it's wild. All Casey made an incredible shot in one of his matches at Whistling Strayts. And I just remember, yeah, even Oak Hill, just every rider kept watching someone makes a hole in one, it seems like, or holes a shot from the fairway. And there's only eight guys on the course. Right.

Speaking of Oak Hill, I'm trying to do the math here. You win three times in 1995 and you are not on the 95 rider cup team. What, what, how is that even possible points wise? Well, the third win was after he picked the team gotcha. Okay, that makes more sense. Yes, but I was third on the money list with two wins at the PGA. At one landing, it made his picks. And you know, we, you go back to 93 and I said, it was a very veteran team. That was really where the picks went at that time.

The captain's usually went with veterans. I'd only played one rider cup. I played two matches, so I didn't have really a ton of experience. I can see what Lany's thinking. Like I'm gonna go with the guys that have been there a bunch of times. Sure.

Thinking, no matter how they've been playing, I'm just gonna go with veterans because they know what it's gonna be like and they'll figure it out a way. Do you remember being a close call whether you would get picked for that team or were you expecting maybe I was I was like 13th on the list. Okay.

Going into the PGA. So I had a chance to make the team. In fact, faxing and I were tied going into the final event. And we might have even been tied going the last round and he shot 29 on the front. And he shot it. He worked his way under the team. Yeah. So that might not have helped me him making the team from the same

spot. So and I didn't play the Buick the week before, which I didn't play on doing anyway. But as it turns out, a hurricane was coming to Florida. And I actually had to go home and help. But you know, that, you know, I don't know if that, you know, the way Lanny looked at he may have seen that I would like to see him play the week before.

Well, it's looking at the captain's picks in this era too. It's, you know, Raymond Floyd was a captain's pick in 93 at the age of 51. It, the veterans got the captain's picks back in that day. It seems like the, the tide's kind of turned a little bit in that. But so going to, I'm probably the longest into an interview you've ever gone without somebody mentioning the US open. But do you remember I'm probably the longest into an interview you've ever gone without somebody mentioning the US open But do you remember I'm curious do you remember what pain Stewart said to you walking off the green at Balteis Thrall in 1993 after you had one?

He was congratulating me and telling me my life was about to change and I was taken back by him Not just shaking my hand and then us walking off I thought that was what I was expected for him to put his arm around. And that's talking to me like, you know, really congratulating me and it was just unexpected to me that he was giving me as much as he was and congratulations. That's what looking back at it. It looked to be a little more than the standard handshake afterward.

Yeah. I was always curious what he said there. You beat painstead twice in the US open. Pain is a very popular player. Did you ever get any kind of Stewart sink like Tom Watson like treatment for it or any any jabs for people already flacked from anyone that you know wanted to see pain win? Maybe one or two.

Okay. You know, not many. Yeah. That means Stewart sink the poor guy. Wasn't his fault. Yeah. Who wasn't rooting for Tom Watson that year? Yeah, and paying, I know his friends razzed him all the time.

He said, too bad, at least I had one, a Catholic priest, and he would never have kids, and you would have had four. You know, that was the one that usually told him. You said, you know, paid that your life's about to change after you won the US Open. What did it change? And if so, and if so, how? I guess things did change.

You know, if that was the last term I ever won, I, you know, probably wouldn't change this much, but opportunities to go around the world and play other tournaments and certainly everybody's perception of me changed. Where, you know, what, what is one week do it? Is it really change? But yeah, introduce me in a new way. A lot of, you know, the golf fans, the avid golf fans made knew who I was, but the casual golf end did not up till then. What is it about US opens that fit your game, you know, and, you know the golf fans they have it golf fans made knew who I was but the casual golf and did not up till then

what is it about us opens that that fit your game you know and you know comparing us open golf and major championship golf to to to regular off what made you succeed in those situations well i know the difficult conditions i seem to do better i was like is that for listeners that maybe not may not understand why what advantage would you have in that situation? It wasn't that I drove it straighter than everybody. It was more of the firm conditions The ability to stop the ball and hit at the right distance. I thought was it, you know

When I went on my good weeks when I was doing that I really liked when the course was fast Well, there's a regular tour event or a major the faster the course the better I felt about my chances Because I felt about my chances. Because I felt like I could hit the right distance and make the ball either stop or roll the right amount. Is it fair to say when it's softer that the tournaments become more of a putting contest? Yep, so if you're aiming at the pin and you push it,

four yards or pull the four yards and the greens are soft, you have a 12 footer. If you do that on hard greens, it could run through the green and now you have a difficult chip or, you know, you're not going to, you can't miss by four yards. And still have an easy putt. Because I, you know, I try to, I spend way too much time trying to figure out why we see Brooks, Capka and Louis Usthason on every major championship leaderboard. You know, when everyone wants to play their best golf, those are the two guys that just rise

to the occasion better than anyone else as far as separate themselves out from tour play. And I don't think we maybe have enough appreciation as viewers at home for how different the golf can be for major championships compared to normal tour stops. Is that, does that sound accurate? Yeah. And I think you'll see John Rom is one of those guys. Yeah. How he played at Torrey Pines.

I watched on TV, but what I saw was he was getting closer, and this ball was stopping quicker than everybody else. Nobody could get as close as him and get him to stop it as quick as he did. And then he made the two puts in the last two holes, but he was hitting better shots than everybody else that was in contention. I think I can somewhat understand the elation that comes from going from zero to one major championship. What I don't think I have a full grasp for is, you know, I think everyone's major goal,

you know, when you come out and play on tour is to win a major, right? But what is going from one major to two majors? Feel like and what does that do for you? Do you know, we're a question, but you know what I'm getting at? Well, I would think that I enjoyed the second one more, you know, with your in college and whoever your favorite golfer was, you know, Tom Watson. I'd love watching him, you know, Jack Nicholas had, you know, wasn't playing as much, but he's still one of the 86 masters. I was in college then of one of the great wins of all time. So, you know, okay, I'm a professional. I want to be a professional God, I don't wanna go on tour, what are your goals?

Well, Jack Nicholas is the greatest ever, so let's shoot for that. You know, when did he win his first major? I used 21, and then he just kept winning, so if you set that standard, like, okay, I didn't win a major, I was 21, I won't even on tour, it took me four years to get on tour, and Nicholas had already won,

how many majors by then, so you know, you start thinking a little differently, but you know, you're still, the major is the one thing if you could win, you've done something. So, you know, that's where we're all shooting for, and there is no perfect formula. Some of the guys are, you know, obviously very talented and worked very hard and they're driven and figured out a way to get themselves ready for those weeks and give themselves a chance. And for me, that happened twice. What do you get asked about the ball falling out of the tree a lot at Olympic?

Is that the moment you look back at it? I guess tell the listeners that story if they're familiar with it. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that tree's not there anymore. They've done a lot of tree removal in Olympic. I just played it recently and I think it looks great without the so many trees. There's still plenty of trees to get hit. You know, to hit behind or get your ball stuck in the tree, but in practice rounds, Monday Tuesday Wednesday, I think I lost two balls in a tree. So it was not that unusual for a ball to stay in a tree there.

Those are very thick trees. It does happen. And I've heard stories where they've had hundreds of balls fall out of trees when they cut limbs off. So they like to eat balls. So it's not that huge of a surprise for the ball to stick in the tree. Something you know a little bit you know it wouldn't happen here in a pine tree but those trees yes. So I hit it to the right and started down there and Marshall walked back up and said he watched it go into the tree and not come out. Well I did know the rules very well. Once you leave the team ground, if you go back and hit another one, that one's in play. Period. So I can't go call it a provisional.

You have to hit a provisional while you're on the tee. But before I turned around to go back and hit another one before I went 20 yards, they yelled and said, oh, it just fell out. So it was in the tree for a minute. And then fell out. And then you go into win by was it one shot or two shots? Yeah, I mean where I was wasn't great, but in my mind I was thinking I thought it was a harvest hole in the course for me. The tee shot that's downhill, right to left slope, dog leg right. Very hard to hit the fairway unless you'd fade the ball and I was mostly a drawer. I could fade the ball when I absolutely had to but I didn't like that tee shot at all.

So it wasn't a very good tee shot. So I'm thinking how am I going to make double now. That's all I wanted to do was just make a double and then the ball fell out and it was a hard shot to get in the fairway and I didn't even get in the fairway because it was, you know, I went across the fairway. First cut, hit it behind the pin in the first cut again, and chipped in for par. And that was the second time I chipped in for par that week. So, you know, a hole that's going very badly

turns out you walk out with a par somehow. And that could have been much worse than par. It could have been double or triple. Because you had a, you were, how many shots back going into that final round too? I mean, at one point you had a seven shot deficit. I know that. I think during the final round is that where you even think it about was winning a realistic option for you at that point. When I finished a doubled Saturday, 17 Friday and Saturday from the fairway. One of the hardest

fairways is on the course too. But Saturday I hit a good try and the green out of a divot One of the hardest fairways is on the chorus too, but Saturday I hit a good try and the green out of a divot And went over the green and it was just a really thick patch of rough. So I was Dejected about that double even more so than the one Friday, but when I finished and saw that I was still fifth I think I was fifth, but there weren't that many people in front of me You know, it just gave me a little bit of hope. But I also wanted to play well because I wasn't exempt for the masters. That's actually could be on your mind, you know, your... In a major, you're thinking about it

a whole life or another would. Yeah, but I know if I just played decent on Sunday, I'd be in the master, so I had that. And that's really all I wanted to do is just go out and play well. I really wasn't thinking about winning. And then I boggyed two and three. I just wanted to turn things around. That's all on the fourth hole and made a birdie. And then they looked really bad

on five and then the chip in happened for par after everything else. And after that I hit every fair win every green. Well, what does winning majors do off course for a player? You mentioned the opportunities to play around the world. And I think that's probably something that us viewers at home also don't have great appreciation for. What does that do for your market ability? Does it really change your life off the course as well? Well, that has helped that. The endorsements, your club deals, other opportunities. You don't have to take all of them. And I feel like sometimes you can take too many and one sponsor might not be too happy that you've taken on three more sponsors And they don't have the center stage whatever so I'd you know if you have good ones keep them happy And then that particular year 98 I went and played in Japan three times

Which you know I played Japan a little bit up to them, but it was usually just once a year not three times. So those were good paydays And then the other you know know, the role match play, the million dollar in South Africa. So those, you know, small fields, hard to get in. And this is pre-tiger money boom, right? So these opportunities were not as present, you know, in the big dollar opportunities were not as present

at that stage, right? Right, yeah, I mean, but still, when the way I looked at going over C's during the regular tour season, I just felt like it was easier to stay home and play a regular tour event because we played for enough money. If I played well, I'd be fine. And I wanted to support our tour. I tried to go play events that I didn't play for a couple of years and work at all of

them in. I mean, the tour tried to encourage us to do that. I don't know how many guys really did that, but I tried to work every tournament and I'll release a few years. And then I probably played more than I needed to, but I'd rather play tournaments. I felt like my game progressed more

during a tournament week than it did at home practicing. Yeah. What's it like to your own tour for six full years and then this tsunami hits, you know, this wave of buzz, media attention, dollar signs, and talent comes in in the name of Tiger Woods in the fall of 1996. What do you remember about that time period? What was the chatter like around the guys on tour that were already out there about this

kid that was coming up? Yeah, well, my rookie year, I played with Phil Mickelson at Tucson, my first tournament. And there was a lot of chatter about him being a college, and the next year he walked up on the range, and there was a horde of media following him onto the range, and I'm like, isn't he still in college? I mean, they act like he's going to win this weekend, and then he did. So I'd already seen that the young hype machine coming, but you know, Tiger played quite a few tournaments as an amateur, and I don't think he finished very high in any of them.

You know, we saw Phil win as an amateur, so Scott for plank win as an amateur. So I know we weren't like completely convinced that he was going to win right away. You make you guys put Curtis out there to do that interview though with him that keeps getting replayed 20 years later. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah. I think it was kind of the same thing like, hey, you know, get your feet wet. Yeah, you'll learn the line that he gives him, you know, the second place not being too bad. But like that was not a, you know, it's easy to say now, but at that time, I mean, it was, yeah, I could see a lot of, you know, it's easy to say now, but at that time, I mean, it was, yeah, I could see a lot of,

you know, some of the more grizzled veterans to say, I'm like, this is not a slam dunk, but this guy is going to dominate out here. Right. Yeah, our number one player, Nick Price had a great run and he'd won 15 to 20 tournaments over four or five year period. And we know Greg Norman was great and contended a ton in one 20 tournaments. So, you know, most of us didn't think that, you know, winning seven or eight times a year for a long time was really, you know, doable. Yeah. Nobody was coming close to doing that. But we found out differently quickly and we found out that he was thinking on a whole different level. What do you have a go-to Tiger story or do you remember the first time that you played with him?

Well, I played quite a bit with him. It all worked when he first turned pro. Do you have a go-to Tiger story, or do you remember the first time that you played with them? Well, I played quite a bit with them. It all worked when he first turned pro. The golf course has been redone now, but I do remember driving in. We played quite a bit, and one particular moment I'm driving in, and he's on the ninth fairway, and he's getting ready to hit a second shot. I didn't know he was shooting 59. He played the back first, finished on the front, and I nearly played the horn on in the

middle of the swing. This is right before the masters. Yeah, when he shot us 59, you know, whatever. So, you know, he probably would have never talked to me again, but but there were there were a couple times. I know Grant Waitenay were beating him in Omira, and there was enough wind on 17. We couldn't get the 17 green and two. We have drove a perfect and get three would right up in front. And he's like flared his drive and he's got like 270 in the win and his at a foot. Winds is a hole in a birdie day team reversed all the bets and we lost and are like you know

It's just like it would be like playing basketball with Shaq and he just holds the ball up here You just can't get it and you're swinging. I'm amazed going back looking at old highlights of what he was able to do with a 1990s golf ball. And you know what I mean? As far as the distance, he was able to hit it, the spin he was able to get on the ball. I mean, that ball was easier to spin back then. But how, I guess, I, it's a frame this into a question. Does it seem like the technology evolution in the 2000s actually allowed people to stay

closer to him than it would have if the golf ball hadn't really changed as dramatically as it did. Yes. That's the biggest difference is, but I don't know if the USGA just tested recently a persimmon wood and today's driver with today's ball. And I don't know these numbers for sure, so somebody doesn't have to email me or write me a letter and tell me I'm wrong. But what I thought it heard was same swing speed,

dead center hit, it was only eight yards difference. One eighth of an inch off center, the person in was 56 yards shorter. So it was just the premium on hitting it in the center of the face was much bigger back then. And that's part of the reason why guys hit it so far now is there's no fear of missing it. So as a kid, you swing it hard as you want right from the start. It's a little easier to pick up club pets, be when you're doing it from the beginning.

When you're 50 something and you're trying to figure out a way to swing faster, it's a challenge. I'm still trying. But yeah. That's about as good as I've heard it heard it summed up in terms of watching him wail on balls at the 97 masters. It was like there's a reason why no one else was wailing on it that hard.

Like you could hit it that far if you'd connect one out of eight, but he was connecting seven out of eight and no one else could do that. And yeah, I mean, obviously we're talking about the best career ever, but I still wonder what it would look like if things didn't evolve the way that they did evolve. Right.

And he spun the ball a ton, and he learned how to manage that, and take the spin off of it and change his swing. I mean, he transformed a lot of parts of his game. We already knew he was tremendously talented and had the drive, and the ability to get out of trouble and get up and down and just do whatever just hit whatever crazy shot Need to be hit he could do it. So you can imagine that the equipment made gave everybody off with everybody also chance So yeah, he would have won a hundred tournaments. I don't know. How does technology? Help you on the champions tour level like how does how does technology?

You know has have you found yourself, you know getting more distance even as you've gotten older or what? you got on the champions tour level. Like how does technology, have you found yourself getting more distance even as you've gotten older, or what is your perspective on how technology helps people at this level? Well, it is easier to hit the big head of driver, the bigger sweet spot. Even today's three would as bigger

than what my driver was in 1998. That's wild. So yeah, you watch the old film from the 90s and you go, why is everybody hitting three with an off the tee? I'm like, no, that's a driver. You know, that's just how small the heads were. I watched, I was looking at some old highlights to prepare for this.

I was watching you hit your opening t-shot at the rider cup. And you do a couple of extra waggles and I look at that clubhead, I'm like, man, that is a different t-shot with that driver than it would be today. Right. Now, all the kids that are playing these different equipment, who's to say that if they grew up with the other equipment, they wouldn't be just as good. But do you think that makes a big difference now, seeing like we're, you know, the guys that are in their mid 20s now never had small headed drivers.

And the way the golf swing, the way it seems like a lot of young people swing the club, do you, I guess, do you see kind of a delineation between like even Tiger did not grow a he still hits down on the driver. He did not grow up hitting the ball the way Justin Thomas hits the ball. Can you tell like the delineation of the guys you know they grew up hitting it this way and grew up hitting it you know on the way up. Right. Yeah. Everybody out here. I mean there's VJ hits a pretty far still Darren Clark. Scott McCarran. Phil's out here now. Yeah. Phil. You know pretty far still, Darren Clark, Scott McCarron. Phil's out here now. Yeah, Phil.

You know, there's another guy that he will figure out whatever he has to do to get better at hitting it further. You know, it's pretty amazing. His conditioning is eating habits, whatever. You know, he's takes it very serious. Maybe we all should take it more serious that way. We play pretty good out here. It's very serious. Maybe we all should take it more serious that way. We play pretty good out here. It's very challenging, but I don't in the end,

I don't know that we take it really serious. We still laugh about our shortcomings. laugh at each other, give each other some good ribbing, but it's all very good nature. How nice is not having a cut? What does that do to your week? Well, scheduling, all your travel is so much easier. I buy my tickets way in advance now. I like traveling on Monday, so I don't want to finish my round Sunday no matter what it is,

rush off to go anywhere, unless I'm going home. If we're going to the next tournament, we don't start till Friday, so we have an extra day anyway, so just take it easy on Monday, spend the night, take your time. That's a big difference on the regular tour. You'd be getting out of town on Sunday night going wherever because the week starts a day earlier. It's just an earlier week. It's a tight squeeze. The four round tournaments are a tight squeeze and the three dayers seem to make a lot more

sense, travel-wise and whatnot. Tuesday, I think, is an important day for preparation and getting ready for the tournament. the four round tournaments are tight squeeze and the three the three day or it's kind of seem to make a lot more sense travel wise and what yeah, Tuesday, I think is an important day for preparation and getting ready for the tournament. So, you know, you've played Sunday, you wait till Monday, and you get Tuesday, and then the tournament is just in the pro-eminent tournament. It comes. It comes quick. A few random questions for you here before as we go move towards the end here. But what is what's the most

nervous you've ever been over a single golf shot? Most nervous over any shot it might have been in the Ryder Cup. That's usually that's usually an answer yeah. Yeah I just know they're nerves there and just the extra care I had to take there might have been a time when I was playing really bad I was nervous too because I didn't know where it was gonna go when I had a chance to make a cut That's what I've heard people say that too of the real nerves come when you're trying to make the cut because your games not all the way there Yeah, when you're in contention your games there and the nerves are very it's a very different nerve Presentation I can't nothing pops into my head right now as far as the one shot that made me the most nervous I know the putt I made on 17 of Alderama against Jose Maria

and my singles match. Did adrenaline nerves, everything. They were going really hard. And I was just like, you keep your head down and take it inside. That was all I was thinking was in and went in. I'm not sure how it happened, but. And that's, you know, you watch the Rodica all the time.

And I'm just like, those guys really dialed in and just complete control or they feel like I felt. It answered that question is almost always something that's that's right or cup related. So they probably felt how you felt. But what's the worst shot you've ever hit in competition? I hit plenty. Gosh. Man, you try and forget those.

This is why we're doing this interview on Tuesday. You got several days until the first round. I don't feel, if it was the eve before a tournament, I would feel bad asking you. No, no. Well, you can ask us out here. We have done so much, and you got to get over it. You don't want to carry it around.

That's the hard part with golfers. They wanted to well on the dumb stuff they did. Or the close calls instead of just thinking about how great they play when they won. I feel like the really bad shots, though, are almost the ones you can kind of laugh at. Almost everyone has one. I top did, I shanked it, I did something. I think it's the ones that were just semi bad that are when you're in contention that really hurt the most to talk about.

I know. I was just trying to go through my head. Like, where was I? Where I had a chance to win a tournament and I hit it out of play or something? That's a different category. I was kind of thinking, like, yeah, I just dead top one or bladed Skulled one a chip or something. Like, yeah, that's good. Nothing came to mind. If it may come to mind in the middle of the night tonight,

there might be too many of them that I can't pick, which one? What is, what's left for you to mind in the middle of the night tonight. There might be too many of them that I can't pick which one. What's left for you to accomplish in golf? What's a goal you still have accomplishment wise? I want to win another tournament out here. It'd be nice to have a little bit higher goal than that and win the money list. But every year there's another handful of 50-year-olds that are coming out. I'm getting further from 50 so

But Jay Haas is a good example of He's 68 he's the 10 years older and I am and he's still contending he won just a couple years ago Fred couples He's got good genes. I know it was back then allowing to play in practice as much as he wants to but he still plays really good when he plays And for a long as another inspiration, So I know if I work hard at it with the right attitude that I can win another tournament, but it's gonna get tougher and tougher, you know, because I've got to be younger guys. Yeah, that's the thing.

It's weird to have it, I guess weird is it just comparing it to the PGA tour, you have a set, like your 50-150 seasons are the, your prime, like your true prime out here, and almost everyone comes out in place, very, 50 seasons are the, your prime. Like your true prime out here, and almost everyone comes out and plays very, very good golf almost immediately. And there's just a whole new crop. I guess, you know, there's new crops and rookies

and stuff from the PGA tour. But I struggle with this question, or I was trying to come up with a career comp for you. Someone that has a similar profile in terms of wins, major wins. Does anybody come to mind? And if I ask you that? Two majors and a players, right? Yep. David Tom's one more. I was going to... Fred

Couples has more tour wins and has one major in a players. I think he has two players. He does have two players. You're right. So that was one that came to mind, but he has a few more tour wins. It was it was an interesting profile. There's not a lot of guys that have eight, you have eight PGA tour wins and two majors. That's an interesting profile. Yeah, Larry Nelson's got what he was 13 to 15 wins, I think, with three majors.

Okay, so I'm like that. I don't know. I think he might be the least respected, three time major winner. I feel like yeah, Larry Nelson doesn't get talked about enough. We might have to do a little deep dive on him. Yeah, and I shouldn't say least respected, but doesn't get talked about enough. We might have to do a little deep dive on him. Yeah. I shouldn't say least respected,

but maybe at least talked about. At least appreciated probably, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. What, all right, last question, and we'll let you out of here. When you need to tell us about light speed, and what light speed is up to? Light speed has got a whole bunch of songs.

15, ready for the role to hear. Who is light speed? Light speed is my son. And what kind of music does he make? It's I'm not I don't know if I'm allowed to say what his genre is. It's a contemporary space pop. Okay, interesting so That might be a hint on what the music's like and the whole vibe What he's gonna come with have you heard it? I've heard it. Yes I'm not allowed to share he gets mad at me and my wife when we play it for other people.

But we think it's really good and we want everybody to hear it. That's awesome. I'm excited to hear it as well. So, I just thought it was my rookie year. The one moment that was the craziest, I played Cypress Point. It's the last time we played there. We had 60 mile in our wins. I've never played anything like that.

I just played Cypress Point a few weeks ago. Actually, it was two weeks ago during the first T tournament. I can never play there and not think about playing at 60 Mont-Ar wins when the par of 3, 16th was a full four iron and a full nine iron. It was par of three. You didn't lay up over the left. Yeah, I hit a low duck hook, four on,

because that's what everybody else did. There was three group weight, and then had 100 yards and hit nine on. Guys were making sevens and eights and tens everywhere. Wow. Never seen anything like that. Any golf, sorry, I lied to a difficult question. Any golf courses left that you haven't played

on your list that, what's at the top of that? I have not played the country club. It might be the highest rated course I have not played. Okay. Um, I don't know if I'll ever get to see Port Rush, but if I get over to Ireland, I will go play Port Rush. Do you add Royal Port Rush? Do you add on other golf courses when you travel sometimes?

Yes. Um, well, singleist country club just was one I got to play for the first time. I'm trying to think there was another one this year that I played for the first time. It was a top 50 course somewhere. Oh, Pasatiempo. Oh, yeah, and then I played the Meadow Club, which is North of San Francisco. And that was fantastic. I hadn't even heard of it before. Wow. McKenzie's first course in North America. And I It's one of my favorites. So because now it's not everyone. Not everyone wants to play more golf when you know when you've got to play as much golf as you have

So yeah, I don't know if it's gonna translate to me get to do any golf course design But I I love to just play them and look at the land and think okay, well, they didn't have bulldozers They figured out a routing they moved a little bit of dirt here and there. What were they thinking? It's almost always subtlety. I find it's not you know, it's it's not it's not always dramatic. It's little slopes, it's little mounds, little hills, the hazards that are just right in your way. And it's, yeah, there's something about playing classic golf courses that activates a, it's almost like a chess match feel more than it is a, a brute test of. Yeah. And what, and when I played the metal club, there were some features that I see in core, grand draw courses. I texted Ben while I was on the course and asked him if he'd been there and he's never even been there.

I thought how strange that I see these core-crentral features and a course that he'd never been to. And I just, you know, why wouldn't they influence you? You know, the greats of yesterday, why not copy him? I think things are definitely trending that way. Anyways, best of luck this week. Look forward to following you and thanks for joining the podcast. Thank you. Cheers.

Be the right club. Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club today.

Yes. Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club today. Yes. Yes. Yes. That is better than most.

Better than most.