No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 496: Justin Thomas

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

He's back! Justin Thomas joins the pod to recap his 2021 season including his win at the Players and his experiences on the US Ryder Cup team. We also discuss his struggles on and off the course during the year, his recent visits with Tiger, and much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sully here got our annual usually fall interview with Justin Thomas coming up here shortly. We used to do these in the fall. I think we had 2020.

We did it in March, I guess, April when COVID hit. We kind of moved everything up, but always good to catch up with him with everything. It's been going on with him over the past year, which we go into great detail, rider cup, players win everything. Everything you can imagine over the next, over the next hour. So great conversation with him. A note ahead of Veterans Day bunkers in Baghdad has recently surpassed one million clubs shipped to US military station around the world.

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let's get to our conversation with Justin Thomas. Bones on the bag, as someone that I would like to pride myself that I speak to both of you pretty often, I did not see that one coming. How did that one unfold? I think I even remember getting the text from you, or just maybe you sent me the screenshot or whatever it was, and you're just kind of like question mark exclamation

and just a bunch of them. And yeah, it was definitely caught a lot of people by surprise and off guard. But Jimmy would just sit at a point where he wanted to go a different way. And I mean, hey, I respect that. It doesn't matter. I mean, people, I thought about it a lot,

especially the time off that I had is that nobody ever thought Tiger and Steve were going to break up or film bones are going to break up. And it's like an R run was really good, but it wasn't anything close to those kind of guys or the amount of time. And all great things come to an end. I mean, Jimmy and I still have a great relationship and friendship, which I'm glad that it happened that way. You never want it to get so far down the road where it gets ugly when you two are good friends. But no, it was an easy decision and easy call to bones. It unfortunately wasn't the best timing as he was going through the maybe the extension or renewal with golf channel. And I really did enjoy listening to him call golf. I thought he did better than anybody. You anybody, especially from the golf he was calling, but I'm glad to hear that he's only calling mine

now on my back. Well, he was never shy about the fact that he was, he's a caddy. I'm a caddy doing TV, and I think everyone kind of knew for the right bag he would do it. It seemed like there was only a couple guys he would do it. And you've had trial runs together, right? So what is someone like him? I mean, Jimmy had obviously a ton, a ton, a ton of right? So what is someone like him?

I mean, Jimmy had obviously a ton, a ton, a ton of experience, but what is someone like him? What does it change for you? Does it change anything having somebody like him carrying the bag? I mean, I don't think in terms of, it's hard to say because they're just different. I mean, you know, they're both,

they're very, very different people. You know, Jimmy's very quiet and would, was very even keel and his emotions stayed very similar all the time. I mean, I remember seeing so many videos of past shots or big putts or whatever it was in Jimmy in the background and you know, I'd maybe make some like 25 footer on the 15th or 16th hole to take the lead and he'd just kind of be standing there with the pen

and not even moving and hand it to the caddy. And it's stuff like that, that's just like that's Jimmy. If somebody else watched it, they'd think, he doesn't care, but I'm like, that's just how he is. Whereas, you know, Bones is a little bit more fiery, kind of like I am. And I think that we might be able to feed off of each other a little bit there. But, you know, the fun part for us is that we had some of those trial runs and we did work together.

But unfortunately, just from where I was at, we knew that it wasn't a long-term thing. I mean, we obviously had an end goal, and I respected that so much from bones, is that it's very easy for a caddy if they're just going to come in for a couple of weeks or one tournament to where it's like, you know, I just got to get through this week. But, I mean, it was like every tournament, he it's like, you know, I just got to get through this week. But I mean, it was like every tournament he was acting like, you know, this is the guy I'm going to have for the rest of my career. And like, let's, this is a stepping stone. We got to get better this week.

And I just, I really respected that. I mean, I don't even know if I've told him that directly like that. But it just, I remember thinking it was really impressive. How serious he took even the one week he would cady for me, let alone kind of the stretch of whatever it was like four or five we had last year so it's been fun. I mean we're learning it's you know we're having conversations whether it's after every round after every tournament to kind of be like you know what can we do better what can

I do better him and hopefully we'll just keep improving. This is a directed at golf in general, much, much, much more than it would be Jimmy or anyone else necessarily. But it always blew my mind for the last four years, whatever it's been, that there are masters being played and bones is not on the bag for somebody. That guy has seen that course from every possible angle,

every possible putt, and committed it all to memory. And it just seemed like they're you know he was gonna be able to help somebody around that golf course at some point. Yeah yeah it's funny I actually still still have him actually. I want to I'm curious to look and see when it is. But I called bones. I think it was before my first masters. And I just asked him, see where is it, it must have been in 17 so before the 18 masters, because I felt like I love that course I knew it and obviously Jimmy knew it well but it was just like same reason a fast tiger or Friday or something. If I can pick out one thing that bones tells me throughout

the golf course then it helps us then it helps all of us. So I call it them and we went through and I have some notes on my phone of him kind of you know going through some of the things that they noticed out there. I know he's excited. We've talked about that and we're definitely going to try to find a time that we can go take a trip so we can, he can kind of watch me play around that place. Love that. So you obviously won the players in 2021. Was 2021 by your own, however you review your game, was 2021 a good season. No, I was Very poor, I would say what was poor? I mean my my results. I mean I had a had a nice end of the season You know, I obviously I had a good start to the season

I had one good tournament I felt like in the middle and then I finished strong But everything else in between wasn't great my game probably probably wasn't as bad, at least to me, as the results showed. It wasn't like I was missing a bunch of cuts, or I wasn't in 50 at the every week, but it just was like, felt like I was one round, one nine-hole stretch, one finish away from having some top five, some top 10s,

having a chance to win tournaments. And I just issued 73 the last day, or Bogey 3 of my last four or her play six whole stretch three or four over and, you know, those would turn into 18s and 25s. And it's just like it was so frustrating because I knew that I was better than that. And I probably worked harder than I ever have this year.

So that part's frustrating too. But I mean, mentally, I just, I got into place mentally that I haven't been in ever. I mean, I, I mean, I was talking to psychologists. I was talking, I just was like, I couldn't, I wasn't having any fun. And to me, it's, I mean, the competitive side is what it is.

And unfortunately, my, I don't want to say my performance determines my mood and whatnot, but it definitely influences it. You know, if I'm playing well, I'm obviously gonna be in a happier mood and some people might not like that, but that's unfortunately just how I am. I've definitely gotten better. I'm not like the little 14 year old self

where I hated everything and kicked chairs and stuff, but I just wasn't having fun. And like when I was out there, I didn't feel like I was gonna do well. And, you know, I just, I felt like I wasn't even a very good player. And I go back, and I'm like, I'm the second or third ranked golfer in the world. How could I possibly feel like this? And that's where I was like, I might have a little bit bigger things going on here. And it was, especially with everybody kind of seems like in the world going through it.

And I had addressed it in the past, but it just was I'd never gotten to that level for me. So it was felt like that along with the not very good golf, it just was like, I wasn't really enjoying what should be an unbelievably enjoyable lifestyle as much as I should. That makes way more sense to me five years into doing this job full-time than it would have, you know, when we first started it. I get it, it, and we've touched on this a lot in the past, so just it always looks like the

most glamorous and fun job in the world, but at a certain point it starts to wear on you. And what did you learn, I guess, from the help that you got or whatever, you know, from that you kind of reflect on now? I think, I mean, I'm so lucky, and fortunate to have not only a great group of friends that I talk to a couple of them, but I do remember this one piece of advice I got is like, it's okay to feel sorry for yourself. And I think I would get kind of in this mode

and this mood of just like, I feel, I just feel so helpless and like so sorry all the time. And it's like, and I felt like I wasn't allowed to or I couldn't be. And it's like, dude, it's okay. Like you're allowed to feel that way. You're allowed, it's, you know, it's,

it's unfortunately a part of life. Like it, just like you said, just because, I mean, there's so many people, especially with doing what I've done and you as well. You meet a lot of wealthy people, and there's a lot of billionaires out there that are miserable. It does not matter.

Money, it obviously helps solve a lot of problems and whatnot, but it just does absolutely nothing to do with how happy you are. And it was like, I felt like I shouldn't be feeling that way. I shouldn't be allowed to feel that way. When in reality, it's like, dude, if you don't feel good, you just don't feel good. Figure it out or do something that kind of help you out

or because at the end of the day, if I'm not happy out playing golf, and I need to take a little time off until I was, but luckily I was able to play, I mean, I don't want to, again, sound like a sob story, but just kind of play my way through it because I just felt like same thing with my golf swing. If it's not good, I'm just going to kind of get it around and figure out a way to succeed

and get a little bit better. So just, it was actually funny. I talked to a guy during the players. Yeah, I called a guy and talked to one of my buddies that week and it was just, that was like the first time the hard part for me wasn't once I got in contention. It was getting there. It was like, I felt like I can't get in contention, I can't get there. Like, what's going on? And then once I got there, I just was like felt more like myself again and back in this kind of ease and normality of like, all right, I'm comfortable again. Is there something to, when you're on your way up, you know, a T15 finish that has the

right signs there can be that much more meaningful to you that once you've won as much as you have, that it's harder to find small wins. Do you see what I'm getting at there? Like, the results that may have been somewhat satisfying, somewhat checking the box four or five years ago, just don't do that for you anymore and that contributes to kind of the way you're feeling. For sure, they just check different boxes. I think it's, I mean, some T1515s are a lot different than other T-15s.

I mean, I was, I mean, even last week in Mexico, I mean, to finish third with how I felt and how I played. I mean, I was like, this, I mean, I told myself Saturday night, if I somehow go on to win the scoff tournament, this is going to be the most impressive win that I've had because I, I, I worked so hard the week before and I just couldn't quite get the consistency of my club face control. I was like, you know, my putting it, like it was, I was putting, I was making some puts but it didn't feel that good.

And then my chipping was kind of the same sort of thing. And I'm like, man, I just work my ass off all week because I really, you know, I don't want to take this as a vacation week. And I get here and then I feel like this and then kinda scraped it around, got off to a terrible start Thursday and finished strong and then kinda just plotted my way around and all of a sudden I'm like,

holy, I got a chance to win this tournament. And so I think it really is just different. It still checks some boxes are just different. And I mean, I think that anybody Would be lying if they say that yeah the same if I The same things I was trying to accomplish my rookie year if I accomplished them now I would feel just as excited. I mean I'd be doing myself a disservice and that's where if I'm looking at your your record over Over pretty much your your entire career. We're just talking about you your FedEx cup run You went first seventh seventh, third,

second, fourth, and a five year period. Yet you're sitting here, you know, you were 20 second this year, and you're sitting here coming off with what you would call not a great year. How do you get better? You have been remarkably consistent, you've won I think 14 times now.

Yet you still have that hunger to get better. How do you get better once you've shown that you can be this good as it is? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. It's just, I think it's for me, it's not completely changing a bunch of stuff. It's just fine-tuning little things.

It's, yeah, I may not love how my golf swing looks at times, but if it works and maybe just kind of tweak the one shot that gets away from me every once in a while then that's great. Or if I can take, especially with all the stats now, if I can take my strokes gain from 0.435 off the tee, put that to 0.45, that's a big difference over the course of the year. Or if I can just get my putting from this, get rid of those eight bad, really bad rounds that I have over the course of year, and I take them to this.

So it's a lot of little things. And unfortunately, winning is what gauges most years. And for me, I really feel like I should and could be playing a lot better in majors. I mean, that's my big thing is that I know that I'm good enough to be contending in majors and quite often, I just haven't done that. So I think potentially just trying to find a different way if I'm approaching them the

wrong way or if I'm preparing the wrong way or what it is, but we'll figure it out and go from there. Because that's a conversation we had sitting here two years ago actually was, you know, you were maybe a year and a half, no, two years I guess removed from winning the PGA, and you were quick to say, like like not happy with my major championship record. And last two years I would venture say you would not call successful in that. But if I'm looking at it, your game, your strong iron play kind of pretty much defines your game, it seems to be the thing that gets rewarded the most in major championships. So that do major championships ask a different question out of professional golfers than a normal

PGA tour stop does? I think it depends. I would say that it's a good question. I think short game is what's the most important thing in my opinion in majors because if you have a good short game, you're making less bogies. And I include putting in short games so it's like you're making those puts and you need to make maybe making a come more birdie putts. And then all of a sudden, at least for me, if that's going well, the rest of my game seems

to feel more comfortable because I don't have as much stress on that six iron that I have to hit the green kind of thing. I know that's a lot of like ifs and kind of things. Total sense. It's freeing up your ball striking a little bit if you don't fear getting it up and going. I mean, obviously, yeah, if you asked a person who was just dead zeroes across the board and everything,

what would you rather have in a major? Would you rather be first in the field and approach or first in the field and around and on the green. I think it probably be a toss up in the majors, it's probably depending on which one, but at least for me, I know the ones that I've contended and played well in, it's always been short game for me. Especially, you know, you get US opens and the PGA can kind of differ in the weeks that are tough or a little easier

maybe, but I don't know. That's at least my thought. I got to ask about the T-Shot on 16 at Sawgrass on Sunday. What do you call this trap draw snap driver that if you bust out a couple times this year? That's somewhat new in the arsenal now. Yeah, it's funny. I've always hit it off 10 at Augusta. It's, I don't, for some reason,

I don't feel comfortable, like, really turning over a three wood. I can hook a five wood. I like turning over a five wood, but just a three wood for me when I try to draw it, I heal it sometimes, and then I mean, I'm gonna have two 30 in on 10 off a downslope in the rough. So, I don't know what it was. I just kinda went there one time and I was like,

I need to turn this, but you gotta turn it a lot. And I don't really wanna hit like a high draw because then it's just gonna fly farther down that hill. And I've always hit that little kind of bullet squeeze cut. And I'm like, what if I just, if I had to hook a seven iron or six iron, what would I do? I just closed the face. So I just aim way right and I close it

and just close it and just get it on the ground as quick as I can. That way if it goes straight, it's not in the air long enough to really get in trouble. And I've quacked hooked it before and it's not in the air long enough to go into the tree. So it's just a shot that I've always hit on that hole. I've actually already told bones.

I'm like, I'm gonna hit driver on 10 of the gust. I'm just letting you know now. So don't even try to get me to three wood. But, um, but yeah, and I just not really comfortably consistently been able to just turn over a driver, especially left to right wind. And that 16th T-shot at Sawgrass is tough. If it's downwind, I can hit it high and hit it over everything, but it wasn't downwind that day. And I just, and then I started kind of hitting that shot at two on saw grass for the same reason. It needs to kind of be something that's low

and it's got to be turning right to left. And on Saturday, it was a little in off the left. And I was like, Jimmy, what do you think about that shot in this hole? He's like, yeah, I love it. And so it was no doubt what I was going to do on Sunday. And it's actually turned into a great shot for me, just because it's not anything that's going to be, I was going to do on Sunday and it's actually turned into a great shot for me just because you know

It's not anything that's going to be you know Obviously not going to carry very far. I'm not hitting like a high draw cover in a bunker But it's like if it just if it has to turn right to left and if it's remotely Firm or not even firm, but just not soft. It's going to get out there plenty far and it's it's really a shot that I've I've liked using So you put it in play with the five wood on 18 as well at the players. Yeah, yeah, like I said, I can hook the five wood. What? Tell me about that one.

Have you watched the replay of that? It if it lands in a different way, that ball goes to the water. Am I right? I honestly, after seeing the replay makes me feel like it had less of a chance than I thought, like every angle I ever see of it, especially the one coming like if the tees back here from the green, I mean, it looks like it would have needed a bad bounce to go in the water.

And I'm like, it doesn't seem possible. Like it was, it was hookin' and like, but I think just be, I mean, it's very, it's 50-50 on if it goes in the water, I still think that. But I think the way that it bounced up made it almost look like it just kicked right. And I looking at this like every video I look at I'm like, all right, maybe I didn't get as lucky as I thought, but then I think about it. I'm like, who cares? Like, it stayed in the fairway, whatever it worked out, but yeah, that,

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I made it pretty far ahead before talking, of course, about my favorite topic. Ryder Cup. I got to say, you were especially coy with me this year on the Intel front. Didn't pass along a lot of stuff on how this team was being formed. What was the process like? This being you as a leader of this team coming back, this is your second Ryder Cup, but I kind of want to know what the what the player to captain conversations process is like and filling out six spots. Half the team need to be filled out by captain's picks.

I want to know when that started and how that kind of worked. Yeah, I'm trying to think of when it really would have started. I don't remember like a specific time. I mean, I would, you know, sometime early summer spring, you know, whatever it was, but I mean, it was bizarre because, you know, like when we were texts, I'm like, it's exactly what you think. And that's the thing is that people are, it's so funny reading what people are saying online versus, you know, knowing what's going on.

And it's like, well, you know, this could happen. This person's, this is these stats. It's like, but is he going to go with this guy? It's like, well, why are you over thinking this that much? Well, in the past, the US teams have not always done what, you know, let's get, you know, young guys on a good course fit has not always been the, yes, yeah, but I would say the way that like we have scar tissue, the way the way that the points and the rankings and everything worked out, it wasn't like you were, you were having to jump to a 17 or 18 to get this young guy or get whatever. You know, it was kind of all, at least at the end,

it was all right in front of you. It was, it was great conversation. I mean, I think that dinner, we had a dinner on Wednesday or something of Atlanta, the tour championship, the six guys that qualified, just talking kind of just being transparent with the captains and talking about what we all wanted. And we were all on very similar pages. And I think most importantly is that we all were very confident

of really any of the picks that were options. It was like we were so fortunate. It's like, oh shoot, do we pick the 20th ranked player in the world of the 23rd ranked? Like it was, you know, we were very fortunate to have such great experience or at least in terms of playing good golf and big tournaments as options. So it was, but all of us had the same sort of method or mindset that were like strict. Like you, you've captained teams of four and you've done them well and you've been a part of these and you've played in these. I'm like, you, you were the besides tiger. You've, I mean, not that I've played that many teams, but he's probably the most recent whatever player. And he's just been a part of him, not that long ago. I was like, you know how to do this.

Like, don't overthink it. Don't do anything because you feel like you have to do it. Like, your job is to get the 12 best guys that we can get in this tournament. And you got to do that at the end of the day, whether it's what we agree with or not, but you know how we all feel. And it was, we were all obviously ecstatic and I think proved it when we got there. And that's the thing is this was, I know you can only compare it to the one team that

you've been on, which is 2018 team, but I mean, 17 11 in France, the lost to the biggest beating in in Ryder Cup, modern Ryder Cup history, something changed in between then. Part of me still thinks it's, you know, we got to play better golf, what not. But a part of me thinks that the environment of the team, I hate referring to it as the team room, which is kind of a metaphor for just the general team chemistry. But I think this is kind of, I think, you know,

in almost a decade of obsessing over this event, I'm only now starting to understand how that contributes to good golf. And I'm wondering if you could speak to that at all, just the comfort level between the two teams, when what changed in the last three years? Yeah, I mean team room was essentially just saying the chemistry of the team. I mean, it's a very just big way of saying everything involved. And it's, I mean, it was, like you said, it was only my second it was only my second one, so it was, it's not like I had a lot to compare to,

but it was, I mean, we had that practice session, it was some straights that week before. I mean, it was like, everybody came, the caddies came, the vice captains came, it was like, it was, it was extremely impressive. I mean, Strik was blown away like, how into it everybody was and how dedicated everybody was. And I mean, I was too.

It was a big deal. And it just seemed like everybody understood and truly felt like this was a chance that we have the potential to not, I don't wanna say send a message or set a precedent, but just get things going for the US and do it on our home soil and do it with a very new team and a lot of guys that could be playing

and a lot of Ryder cups in the future. And I think we just all were excited, we were hungry, we were determined, but it was such a laid back fun week and to be perfectly honest, I think, it's probably gonna sad sound bad to say, but COVID helped just with not having as many functions and not having as many things to do, because I mean, we do get pulled and,

and get asked to do a lot of things that week and having less to do, I think was more of a normal atmosphere and tournament week for us, where guys could do a little bit more of the normal routine and and I think that's great. I mean, you know, you know, you wouldn't or you shouldn't want us to be anything outside of our comfort zone for what is supposed to be our biggest and most important event every two years. So it was great. I mean, it just truly was, I mean France was great. We had a non believable time for as much as we got our ass kicked.

It was very different. It wasn't as much time together just because of that. It was a lot of things that we were doing. We were driving a lot of different places. And it just was kind of like wake up. And you see the guys you're playing with, you go play, you go do two hours of media, you go take pictures for this long. You go here, you hurry up, get treatment, you take your 40-minute car ride backminute car ride back you hurry up have dinner go to bed and do it all again the next day

So it just it was it was different for many reasons, but definitely for the better and it may have not come off great But I think Keppka Brooks made some points related to that in his interview that caused I think more controversy than he would care to care for it to I think there was some element to that that kind of poked it. What people have talked about in terms of how the US has viewed this event individually versus team atmosphere. But there is an importance to like being in control of the things you're just talking about and how that, it seems, sounds like 2018, that caused a strain on a team that age-wise was very different from this team.

And you're, I'm getting older, man, your bodies don't handle that stuff the same way. And not to mention is that we had, I want to say maybe eight of our 12 guys played in Atlanta, the week prior. Yeah, that was like we were and I think they had maybe two guys, three. So we had eight people, I mean, obviously, that we had the other four of me, just in Atlanta, but like we're traveling, leaves Sunday night after Tiger wins. I mean, we leave it, got to what, one in the morning,

midnight, something like that, fly to France, and then it's like, we gotta go out play a practice. I mean, they had to go through travel as well, but it just was like, flying east is different. I've always say that though. Yeah. And we're all learning of course. I mean, there's no skis. We played terrible.

We got our asses kicked, like I said. But that being said, those four days of prepping and getting ready would have been a lot easier on us if you don't have as much to do. And yeah, I mean, that's unfortunately how it is for a lot of media stuff. Brooks's quotes did get taken out of context. And it was, unfortunately, you can't read the tone. And you don't see the question behind what is the main headline in the quote. But yeah, I mean, he obviously could have worded it differently and said it a lot better.

But I think some of us somewhat understood what he said. It just could have been portrayed or said a little bit differently. Yeah. Yeah, I think it, you know, coinciding up against a lot of what, you know, understood what he said it just could have been portrayed or said a little bit differently. Yeah. I think it, you know, coinciding up against a lot of what, you know, you hear out of Europe about just loving the team environment and all that. It was, it was easy fodder, I think, for people to discuss. But so you and Jordan playing together was pretty obvious and expected.

Where did you and Kentlay come from? Where did that, you know, what, what was that process like? Why four ball different than four sums? Was that something that came from analytics that was dictated to you guys? Was that, because, was was that process like? Why four ball different than four sums? Was that something that came from analytics? It was dictated to you guys? Was that, because, was that always the plan? I, that the afternoon pairings on Friday kind of surprised most of us that follow it pretty closely, but it worked out.

Yeah, I think it, I mean, I told the captain ask, you know, all of us who we want to play with, who give us some options. And I mean, I had a handful of guys, but I mean, I said I was like, if I don't play with Jordan with Jordan I mean I'd love to play Patrick we I think we be a great alternate shot to I was like best ball it's fine but we can put me with anybody I'll be just fine I'm like but alternate shot there's only probably a couple guys that I would legitimately not like to but feel like

that I'm comfortable with playing and Patrick's One, but just Captain was very adamant on not playing very many guys five matches. And he just was like, he's like, we're so deep that we really should use that to our advantage. He's like, because come Sunday, if you know, they're gonna have to probably send four or five guys five matches. And if we don't need to do that, we can use our depth.

That way we're gonna be a little bit fresher on Sunday. He's like, because singles haven't always been great to us. Because I mean, obviously I wanted to play five, Jordan wanted to play five. We all did, but it's unnecessary, but this team, yeah, yeah. And it sucks because that was the first session I'd ever sat in team event. It's like, it, it does suck, but at the same time, you, I mean, I told, I told Strik that Tuesday when we got together. It's like, Strik, I will not play till Sunday,

if that's what's best for the team. Like, I don't care. I just, I want you to feel like don't send guys out there because it's like, oh, we, everybody has to play the first day. Like, this isn't a participation medal tournament. Like, I want, we all are the pod, got in a room, and we're like, you need to send out the, what is it? Four matches?

Yeah. You need to send out the four best teams in each format, every single format, every day. Doesn't matter how many matches they play, it doesn't matter how many this, that is what we feel like you should do. And that's what he did. So it just kind of happened that we finished our match

and unfortunately lost and it sure comes out to us as like Jordan, you're sitting and Zander was sitting. And so he said, no, no, Zander went out with DJ, I think it was, and then I played with Pat. So that was something that we were both fine with. I mean, I think if you asked Patrick, he would have rather played with Zander than me. But in Jordan and I I, I know are a really, really good best ball team, especially since we hounded strict for two years on playing best ball together than he didn't put us together

once. So maybe that backfired. That seems like, again, you can only speak to one team, but it seems like a change in how things have been done in the past, right? People may be expecting to play a certain amount of matches and viewing, I think everyone has always wanted to win. That has never been in question. And I think I get upset when people kind of lazily paint, you know, that the Americans don't care about this event, any of that.

I've never gotten that vibe. I've just always thought the difference has been the American players want to view it through the lens of, I'm going to go play my best golf and be responsible for helping our team win. Versus like putting yourself at the mercy of the captain of the team and say, I'll do whatever I can to win. And this team just felt different in that regard. And winning and playing well helps all those things,

but that feeds that environment. It's a very circular thing. That's my observation. Yeah, I think it could have been the amount of younger guys of honestly not knowing any better. Really, I think it's, and it was funny, Zach, it was the leader of our pod, Texas Jordan and I early in the week, you know, just always checking in, you know, do you guys need anything? Whatever. He's like, but seriously, like you guys need to be honest

and talk to me if you expect to win anything this week. Like if you want to play this many matches, if you're, if you're wanting this, you don't like this format this. If you guys want to play three matches and it was funny, Jordan responded, he's like, Zach, if I ever ask to only play three matches at a Ryder Cup, you can check me into some kind of clinic because I I don't care how bad I'm playing. I will be able to figure out and get it around for four matches of Ryder Cup. You found something to do as well during the session that you did sit. I did, yeah. You want to comment on how much beer you left in the can after the chug?

I would like to comment on how damaged the beer was before I got rid of it. Oh, really? Okay. That's why I didn't shotgun. If you notice burger shotgun, so when someone threw it, I actually have a funny story about that burger, and I, he, because I guess that's a Wisconsin thing, you know, like they do it at the bucks games where they put that that lineman they have on it and just absolutely just houses a beer.

And he's like, should we do it? I'm like, do we can't chug a beer? Like we just can't do this. And it's like, oh, come on, we got it. I'm like, do it. It's trust. It's just not a good idea. So, but we went out there and started throwing stuff up in the stands and then they kept chanting, kept chanting.

They were like, what do we do? And then two people threw two beers down. And we just kinda looked at each other and I'm like, I mean, we gotta get these guys going. I guess we gotta do it. So I picked it up and you know like when you drop a Coke, how, or you drop whatever, like a can, how the top will kinda come up.

So it bursted a hole in it and I'm like, well this is already open. So I feel like I got to drink it now. And I picked it up and since there's a hole I couldn't shotgun it. And I turned it around and burger already had a key in it. He was like, he had his fraternity days from Florida state taken back. But no, yeah, I knew that I wasn't going to chug a very quick, so I grunk-spiked it immediately. But I will say, though, my funny story about that is, and I do want to say there was absolutely no disrespect to

anybody. Like, some people told us, like, that's, you know, you're saying it's over or whatnot. Like, we went out there for one reason. That was to get the crowd going. And it's like, if we had to chug a beer, we had to. And so be it. But we didn't see Strick for a little bit because the guys were getting ready for their matches and Burger and I went out, got him going. And so they, because Strick was on the range on the punting

green, he didn't actually see the footage. And I guess he did see it. And I saw him as I was watching some of the matches, went on the front a little bit. And I saw him, I think, on 12T. And he on the front a little bit, and I saw him I think on 12T, and he just kind of like standing there and has his grin on his face. And he just, I come up to him,

I was like, what's up, Cap? He's like, I'm gonna have to talk about this in the media now, and I go, you should have played me. Like, it's your fault. I'm like, if you wouldn't have sat me, this never would have been an issue. So this is your own fault. So he got a good kick out of that.

It seemed very much, and he blow back that there was to that, was very much like, oh, come on, we need these guys to be more passionate and into it. But not like that. No, not, not this way. Like I was as soon as you there was a moment you guys looked at each other. I remember seeing that and I was like, oh God, they had to make a quick judgment call of like, are we really going to do this? It just went for it. As soon as the hole was in the beer and it was spraying all over the tea, I'm like, well, it's already started. I may as well just go ahead and do this for the country.

It would look real bad if it had a big comeback after that. Yeah, yeah, no kidding. It worked out. But what was, I mean, how prepared was the team to, you know, I don't want to lead you right into this, but like to deliver that big of a defeat. I mean, the talent gap was pretty evident to me that is not always translated to a US win. I'd have been fine with a one-point win. But going into it, did you guys really feel like we have an advantage for this and this

specific reason on this golf course, and we just need to play like that? Definitely not the golf course. We actually were kind of joking, one of the practice rounds when we went, it was so windy. And we're just kind of like looking around like, is this really where we picked for a US rider cup? Like, we're picking a Lynx golf. It's not Lynx golf. Ish, Lynx, a-ish, sort of.

Like, we got all this conditions. There's conditions. Yes, the conditions. It was like, it could blow 30 out here. We're on the water where it could be 45 degrees. I'm like, this is like, this is what they grew up in. And we're really doing this to ourselves. So we kind of had a little bit of a moment there.

Is it true? Bug didn't hit a shot on that day. Just went out and chipped and put it. Because the wind was different direction. The one really windy day, it was different direction than you were going to get. Patrick didn't hit a shot. Okay. One day, I think, I don't know if Bug did.

He's on another plan. Yeah, I wasn't in his group that day. But you're up wouldn't play 18 that day or something. And I was like, man, that is a... Oh, oh, a pro, an extra extra round. Yeah, yeah, Bug, yeah, we were just gonna do non-holes and he just was like, yeah, he's like, I'm not even gonna, it was so windy.

He didn't hit any or play any that day. I think yeah, there were a little condition element, but it also seemed like you guys had a ball striking advantage, especially mid to long irons, it felt that way. And there were so many shots out there that required, like, do like step up and hit a really good five iron. And that was a really good strength of the team. I saw that on display on seven and 17 were the big ones

that were just in three even. I was just like, do you guys stand up and hit this shot? And I don't know the numbers in front of you, but seemed like those were the holes you guys really had in advance. Yeah, it just was, it felt like the course, a lot of us when we got there, you know, you have your analytics, your stats guys,

but I mean, Jordan and I went there and we knew that I was gonna tee off odds. He was gonna tee off evens and we kind of got in the meeting and they're like, yeah, you know, things are better if you guys see it. We're like, yeah, we know, like we've already gone over that and we've decided. I floated that theory to you weeks before. Yeah, and Jordan had told me before we'd even talked about it. He got through the whole course and he's like, you got the iron shots here. I got the right to left holes. You got these left to right

drives. And I'm like, whatever you say, parts. But it wasn't like we had this, you know, we're having these talks and stuff, you know, like we're gonna crush them this week, we're gonna do this. It just was like, everybody was comfortable and was confident and- It seemed business-like, it just seemed-

Exactly, it's just- Expected in the least cocky way, I would say. Yeah, we just, we all truly just went out to like, just go in your point, go in your match, and be there for your teammates, and just help in any kind of way that you can. And I think that's what we did. Jordan was pretty direct afterwards

and saying that he thinks there's big time unfinished business when it comes to winning in Europe. This one, I mean, it felt like you guys should win, and you did, you took care of business. How prepared is this group to win in Italy? Do you have to do anything differently to win abroad? Can you just pick up what we just did and do that over there or is something have to, how do you prepare differently or do you?

I don't know. We joked on Sunday night, we're like, if we could just, we asked Strick, can we just sign this team to go play in Italy in a couple of years? But like you said, we're like, if we could just, we asked trick, like, can we just sign this team to go play in Italy in a couple of years? But I mean, like you said, we played great. The course fit us well. It just, it seemed like everything worked out pretty well. And obviously having your, your home crowd and all the motivation we

had helped. But, you know, I don't, at least, I don't think we know the golf course very well. I don't know what it's like. You know that they're going to set it up to favor them a bunch. But at the end of the day, if we have a group of golfers that are just as good as, you know, we were a couple of months ago, then I feel confident that we'll be able to figure out how to play it. It's just a matter of going out and executing at that point. But I definitely feel like the difference, a massive, massive difference of this year

in France is that we made a lot of those puts we needed to make. I mean, I remember just watching so many Ryder cups growing up and even, you know, my first couple of years as a pro just seeing the amount of putts that Europeans made versus the US. And that's just such, I mean, Ram did it to us so many times in our first match in Jordan. I mean, we played so well and we just couldn't hold any of those putts and we had so many times where we were inside of them and they were putting for the same thing and and Ram would hold a long putt and then we would miss like a 10-12 footer and it just takes so much of the

momentum out and that was the biggest difference for the week I think. On to a different note I want to I just want to thank you for all of the behind-the-scenes info you've given me on all the new potential leagues. You've really spilled the beans and given me more information than I know what to do with here. You know, you're the go-to expert here. But I do want to ask you about this and for those that are not familiar, you've been pretty dismissive of basically everything, both publicly and privately, if I may say. But what do you play for? What's important to you?

I'll open any question. both publicly and privately, if I may say, but what do you play for? What's important to you? Open any question. Just trophies history. When internments, when and majors, that's just, to have your name in the history books and just name on major championship trophies and just being in, is a part of of golf history is honestly what's important to me because I struggle sometimes watching pro golf not knowing what guys are playing for I don't know if they're playing for the money I mean do you have do you have it I don't know how to ask this of course the answer is it yes but like do you feel like I've got the money got the money that I need. I don't need to go play for obnoxiously more amount of money because I like what I'm doing. Is that a fair assessment of your stance? I've never, I've literally never thought

or said that to myself once, but I mean, I guess you could. Yeah, it's just, it's, it isn't. I mean, it's not necessarily just golf. I mean, I would say you could find basketball players or you could find, you know, baseball football players that are just like, oh, I just want to go get that one more contract. And it's like, dude, you've made a 230 million in your career. Like, what's this 30 extra million?

Like, you know, you're not any good. I shouldn't say not a good. You're not as good and you're not at that same level as you were, you're maybe seventh or eighth year. But it's just like, and then there's some guys that are like, you know, I have another couple really good years of in me and, you know, and then I have competition. That's competition.

Exactly, and it's just, it's, everybody's different, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's just me personally, unless, I mean, knock on what, unless things really go south, and I need to fire on my financial advisors, I will not be going out to play you know a couple of years just because I feel like I need some more cash you know. It's just I want to go

out and I just that's probably why I was so disappointed with this year is I you know I obviously won the players which is a huge accomplishment and stepping stone for my career but I obviously would like to win more than once. And that's probably why it was like that. How do you see these developments playing out? And where it's still very blurry as to what it might look like, the Premier Golf League, the Super League Golf, or whatever that is, all of the rumblings that

are going on, actions that have been made by the PGA tour, introducing the PIP. The players, versus going up, FedEx, cup money's going up people are getting fifty thousand dollar bonuses plan fifteen events it seems like at minimum the tour is going to be stronger from this but what do you in your mind what do you see happening you know all these guys you've talked to some of them what what do you see happening

uh... yeah and i think that especially if the tour smart and if she smart which's smart, which he's proving to be, is that we're just going to better our product. And that's the hope. And I mean, at the end of the day, I'm going to go and play wherever the top players are and wherever I need to go. You know, it's like if nine of the top 10

decided to go play or 17 to the top 20 decided to go play in a different tour, like, I don't have a choice. You know what I mean? I want to play against the top players in the world play in a different tour. Like, I don't have a choice. You know what I mean? Like, I want to play against top players in the world and have a chance, like I said, to win tournaments against the best players in the world. But we're just continuing to grow the product so much,

I think, on tour. And it's just getting better. And to me as a player, it's just getting extremely frustrating. And I know it is for you too. And you've even texted me of rumors you're hearing not only about others but about me. And it's like just the stuff that's getting thrown around that is so blatantly false is frustrating because in one, I would say it's pretty unappealing to me because you know

I'm hearing things that are being said that I said that I've never spoken before. So it's like who's the person that is relaying or putting this information out? And two, how do you think that's a good way to go about business? And I mean, I don't know if it's a player, if it's an agent, if it's someone from these organizations, or what it is, it's just unfortunate. And you hate it.

You would hate to see it get to the point where someone ends up potentially getting in trouble for one of these rumors that starts. And I've just gotten to the point where someone ends up potentially getting in trouble for one of these rumors that starts. And I've just gotten to the point now, whenever I hear anything that's regarding a player, I just, before you've been answering the person, I just immediately call the player. I don't, I don't talk to their agent. I don't talk to a buddy.

I don't talk to a caddy. I'm like, dude, I heard this. You can tell me as little or as much as you want, but I'm sick of hearing it from someone else. I want to hear it from you. And they tell me and tell me as little or as much as you want, but I'm sick of hearing it from someone else, I want to hear it from you. And they tell me and tell me whatever they want, and then that's the end of the conversation. So that's just kind of where I'm at. And I mean, the thing is, is nothing is necessarily off or on the table.

It's just, everything always has a possibility. But the end of the day, I mean, as long as the game of golf is in the best possible place in every area imaginable, like I think the PGA tour mean, as long as the game of golf is in the best possible place in every area imaginable, like I think the PGA tour is, is only going to continue to keep going. And that's where I, and I would think a lot of the top players want to be. Well, let's go through name by name of all those conversations you have to give me exactly what you got. Yeah, it is a, yeah, it's incredibly, they're smoke there in terms of like, it seems like if, blah, blah, if John Smith takes a meeting,

or John Smith's agent takes a meeting with this, the Saudi Gulf League, whatever it is, it becomes to the next guy, well, John Smith is in. If you wanted, that seems to be a very real thing that is going around and that I'm just amazed by how far along some of the rumors seem and the information seems and then you go directly to people that are as close to as you possibly could imagine, they're like, well, that's not what I'm here. I'm like, wait a second here. The people,

the best possible sources seem to be the most confused. It is. It's so, yeah, like you said, I mean, you'll hear someone that's like, he is 100% this. And I talked to that person, he's like, I am 100% that. I'm like, how can these two people, how can this person who says that this person is 100% be literally as far as you can possibly get from what they say? So it's just, it's bizarre, man, it really is.

And I think it's been a crazy, and other thing is the whole huge announcement coming next week. The amount of times I've heard that and I've heard one announcement. My big thing is I've tried not to get wrapped up in it because me playing Good Golf is what's most important for me at the moment. And there's definitely times where you're going to continue to have conversations with players and different people because you know it's my right as a person and as a basically an owner of my own brand to know

as much information as I can but once it comes around and near tournament time that's the only thing I'm focused on. So would you would you say that you know among the top players on the PGA tour, there's not a general descent into how things are being conducted on the PGA tour. There's not a, you know, this has to change. I know each person probably thinks of it differently, but you don't, I don't get the sense from you that you think that there is a, you know, a bunch of major issues that need to be addressed on the PGA tour.

No, there's not, there's things, there's things that could be addressed, but it's not like, I've never had the thought of going to J, like if this and this isn't changed, I'm out. It's like, hey, this can get better, and this can get a little bit better. I heard this idea from So-and-So, and what do you think about that? And I've heard great points from different players

about just about potentially, whether it's just having more transparent conversations. And I think that's what's been eye opening for me. Not only being a part of the pack, one, how long it takes for things to change. I think a lot of people think, hey, I want this. This has got to go, it's like, what do you think? He's just going to, he's in this week.

It's going to change. It can't happen like that. And it needs to go through this. It needs to go, it's like, what do you think he's just going to like he's in this week? It's going to change. I can't, it can't happen like that. And it needs to go through this and needs to go through the board that need the tour. And he's just a lot of things need to happen. But it just, it doesn't matter who you are. If you're, if you're, you know, John Rom, myself for the 125th FedEx ranked player on the tour, like, if you feel a certain way about it, you need to have a conversation with Jay and he passed a Ross Berlin, the guys will work for the tour.

As much as it don't mean it in a disrespectful kind of way, but they work for us. You need to ask them questions, or if you truly legitimately feel a certain way, you need to let them know, because if you don't say anything, nothing can ever happen. Kind of thing. And it seems like there is action. It does seem like though the tour's overall structure like you're saying makes it hard for one thing. Some things are just impossible based on the idea of a member run organization.

That's a charitable organization and whatnot. And you can't just all of a sudden snap your fingers and choose where the money goes based on personalities. And the PIP is there, but it's not as easy as, first, it doesn't seem like that says that big of a game changer for people anyways. Yeah, yeah. Definitely, especially through the all-covid and us playing with, I mean, the hit that the economy took.

And I mean, I was always very against the reserves that we had, I felt like, I mean, I'll be the first to admit that, you know, I felt like we should have been playing for that money, it should have been there. And then I saw what it saved a lot of guys and how the tour was basically able to remain as strong as it was. And, you know, we didn't have any any of the like the other sports how they took

I mean not obviously because it's run differently and not through the I guess you could call like revenue share type thing But it all stayed the same because of how the tour has gone through that and yeah There's always gonna be things that can get better But I think Jay and and team of are doing a good really really good job of Continuing to try to improve the product as much as they can. I'm confused with what I even want to see now. That's a golf fan, but I don't know.

Yeah. So we're coming up almost a year since you were heard on camera uttering a gayslur in Hawaii. What have you learned since from that situation? That was in January of this past year. We're speaking here in November. What have you learned from that situation? A lot about myself. I mean, I would definitely say, and like to think that I've grown a lot as a person. I mean, I've had a lot of really awkward and uncomfortable conversations, but it's just probably more so opened up my eyes,

and honestly made me just realize some things about myself. Honestly I think I was a little bit of almost like a hypocrite if you will because I would see people make these mistakes or I would see things whether it was online or whatever it was. I think it's so easy nowadays for people to just attack the person or just be like, he's an idiot. What is he doing?

He's got no idea what's going on, but then I flip it around and then that happened or I shouldn't say that happened to me. I did that, I made that mistake, and then I'm expecting people to not do the same thing to me. And it's just like, I'm like, I witnessed it. People literally make mistakes all the time. I'm not in no way shape or form defending myself,

but it was almost just more of of like a dude you got to be realistic with everything that's going on like yeah I screwed up but at the end of the day I truly do believe everything happens for a reason and it was extremely difficult to figure out for a couple months what kind of positive could come of this but I developed a lot of great relationships because of it. I got even tighter relationships with a lot of my partners, with a lot of my friends. It just kind of opened my eyes, I guess, if you will. And I think it's insanely different than a failure and golf or a sport, but it's still

a failure in my life. But just like I treat my failures and my golf as I try to learn from it And I felt like although it took me a while just because of the state of mind I was in I was just like once I was able to kind of sit down with you know my team and and friends around me like all right Let's just kind of take this time to learn and try to get better from it because that's You know after the after you've already made the mistake. That's all you can do. And that's what I felt I could did. Marrying two things together here from what we were talking about earlier, from you feeling like you didn't quite feel like yourself this year or had,

I don't know what you would want to call that, but is it easy to link the two things in terms of what the last year has been? That this incident contributing to a year where you maybe were not in your we're not you're in your best mental state. It was a lot of things. I mean, I definitely, I would say that that was the root of a lot of it. It just, that was definitely one of the moments where I'm like, you know, why is this happening to me, why is this, and that's kind of the feeling sorry for yourself and whatnot. And it's no way exactly to think about things, but then, you know, it's not something I,

it's not like after a couple weeks, I got over, but something as I was starting to at least be able to, you know, have a couple hours in a day where I didn't think about it of how I screwed up and how I let all these people down or whatever it was, but it just was, I was able to somewhat kind of normally live my life again, it was like, okay, getting back into it and then, you know, everything happens in my grandpa. And then It was like, okay, getting back into it and then everything happens to my grandpa.

And then it's like, okay, this unbelievable, this is happening. It's like, didn't sew out of the blue, sew just random and then it's like, okay, then everything happens with Tiger. And it was all this stuff that was kind of going on. It just was like, this is gonna be the worst year of my life. Like, it doesn't seem like any of this should be happening

or any reason, but again, it's just a part of life. Like stuff like that happens to people all the time. It just so happens to be that I was at where I was in my career and the age I was at, the places I was at, so be it. And I truly do think that, I mean, it still affects me, but it's just, I'm gonna somehow be stronger and I am stronger because of it. It's just like anything, it takes work, it takes time.

And yeah, it's one of those teachable moments that I can obviously for myself, but hopefully for others as well. What is the latest with Tiger? Have you seen much of him since the accident? I'm actually kind of kind of not stunned But you know, he's been as off the radar as much as he has and in terms of buzz and interest from golf fans It seems like it's kind of surprising. What's what's your how is this change your guys relationship?

Or what do you see of him? No, it's good. I mean, I'd say I Fry go over and see him two or three times a week when I'm home just go go more so to let our dogs play and hang out He wears our pup out? But no, I mean, yeah, he's doing well. I mean, especially all things considered. I think he's, I mean, he's this groundhog day. Every day is the exact same thing for him, but at least he's able to, you know, pictures are going around of him at Charlie's tournament and, you know, Sam soccer tournaments here and there. So he's able to be, you know, a dad somewhat again, which is most important, you know, he's still as sarcastic as well self. So nothing's changed there. So I'm glad to see that he's he's still chipper as always. I have long called for golf fans to just, you know, give the golf a break

when it comes to Tiger, but they're gonna kill me if I don't ask. Does golf enter the, does golf enter the conversation as to what the future that might be, close near to our more short-term at home? I don't know. I mean, I know that he's gonna try. I just, I don't see, I don't see him ever playing if he can't play well. You know, he doesn't strike me as a guy that's like, you know, he's played at home and he's shooting a bunch of 75 and 76s. And he's like, all right, I'm going to go give Augusta a try this year.

Like that's just not really going to be him. At least, at least to my understanding or from what I know of him, you know, he's, I think he knows that, you know, there's a, there's a pretty good chance. I thought it was kind of that might be the last chance he really ever had of before that of kind of making another run, but at the same time, I know how determined he is, and I know he's gonna wanna at least try to give something again. I mean, obviously, I hope he does,

but at the same time, like I said, kind of after the accident, as long as he can be a dad and be normal with that again, that's the number one priority, and the rest is a bonus. I would say I've officially learned my lesson, and I just won't do it again, we'll never call him done, won't do it again. We'll never call him done. We'll do it.

Yeah, I mean, it can be a .001, whatever it might be, but gosh, it was definitely .001 at certain times when it came to the back in 2019 happened. So that's all, but I'm with you there. It's kind of like, dude, you've given us golf fans in terms of, you know, just speaking for them, you've given us a lifetime, a career's worth of memories. And you don't know the golf fans, anything else. If you do it for yourself, then that's a different thing.

But yeah, I mean, even if it's something like, you know, when he's feeling good again, he just goes and rides around with Charlie at the father's son, you know, it's just something to where he wants to be a dad and enjoy those moments with him and hopefully watch him, you know, potentially be playing dad and enjoy those moments with him and hopefully watch him potentially be playing and go watch Sam and her soccer tournaments or she's such an athlete and how smart she is

to be a part of her life. And it's just that's what he wants to do. And it's, you know, his competitive side, like you said, is not gonna let him just hang it up without at least giving it a try at some point, I'm sure. How do you look in ahead? How do you think 2022 major venue set up for you? What do you know about them and how do you think that sets up for you? I see the US opens at Brookline. I like that place a lot. I play I missed the cut there in the USA but I really like the course. St Andrews, my love. First effort ever professional round of golf was at St.

Andrews. What was that? The Dunhill links. Yeah. And then the where's the PGA? Southern Hills. Southern Hills. Yeah, I've never been there. So I've watched it and I've heard it's an unbelievable course. I'm excited to check it out. But yeah, I mean, I think they set up for me pretty well. It's just all about, you know, just kind of getting there and then seeing what you got. I mean, I think they set up for me pretty well. It's just all about just kind of getting there and then seeing what you got. I mean, I think the open is just getting, I'm due for a good draw. I've really gotten some bad draws in the open. And I've just-

You are just keep track of the draw guy. I am too, but you would Jordan both or keep track of the draw. I'm not remotely close to him, but at the open is the only one I keep track of. And I have yet to be on one of them. That is not one? No. But there's been like two or three is the only one I keep track of. And I have yet to be on one of them that is. Not once? No.

But there's been two or three that's, they're very close, but I've not been on, you know, sorry, four or five shot difference. Burkdale, that one was. Attrocious. Grinded my tail off for a T-54 or something. Would I think of Burkdale? I think of the shot where you,

I remember it right, where you were in the Fescue and your hands felt completely off the club. Yeah, I didn't, yeah, I just, like my club yeah, fell out when I was like on the way down in my club, like stuck in the Fescue behind me and I followed through with no club. I mean, yeah, it was, it was saster. Greens books being banned.

What are your thoughts on that? I'm fine with it. I mean, I love it. I think it's, to me, it's gotten to, I mean, I totally understand the whole, especially a lot of the aim point guys and a lot of the, they say it's, you still have to hit the putt, you still have to hit the speed and whatnot.

But it's like, I feel like when I first heard about aim point and learned it, it was you spent time at home, you learn the slopes yourself to where you kind of trained your memory and your feel to what a slope was. And then when you were at a tournament, you were able to go out and feel that. You didn't have something to where you didn't necessarily even have to step. You just open up a book and you're like, all right, it's a three. You pull out some chart and you're like, all right, it's 17 inches out. And then boom, you line it up 17 inches. To me, that's not golf.

I mean, it's still, I told again, I understand the argument of people saying you still have to hit the pod, you still have to understand a point and whatnot. But, I mean, look at it like a gust. You know, it's,'s it's it's golf. It's it's feel that it's a wood a lot of putting is it's it doesn't feel right. It's for somebody to be standing on a green and reading a book instead of it's one yardage books are different. It's like this is information about things you can't see in the distance, right?

Sure. And I think that is important, especially at the highest level of the game, the amount of time you go spend in your yard books is for a reason. But if you are literally standing on this, I think green's books are, I find the most helpful for approach shots. The own courses, I don't know that well.

Like, back right pin, okay, can I feed this there? How can I get there? Where do I not want to leave it? I think that is still acceptable. But when you get to the green, pulling out books to read it just feels off, feels wrong. Yeah. And at the same time, like you said about approaches, I use them same sort of thing kind of like where I want to leave it, but also I don't like the fact that you, it feels

like you don't even need to play a practitioner anymore. Like in reality, you have a picture book now that tells you exactly where the runouts are on the pictures and then you can get to a green and be like, oh well it does that over here and that over here I can't apparently I can't go over there because this it's it's sloping that way versus you know I might have bones who's cattyed this place 20 times or me who's played this place seven times and I'm sorry but I should have an advantage over a rookie like I've been here seven times, and he's cadded here a bunch, and that's an advantage in my eyes. And if his caddy or that player wants to go out and spend the time

to whether it's rolling balls or hitting a lot of shots around the greens to learn it, then so be it. But I don't know. I feel like I personally think, I mean, I was a big advocate of it. I mean, would I much rather see the armbar get rid of before that thing? There we go. That's what that is. But the wording was a little bit easier to get right for the greens books than that.

Yeah, I think that's what, the next question was any other rules that should change. And I think that I think you covered that. Yeah, I would love the armbar to go away tomorrow. That, that, that you feel that strongly about it? Yeah, I don't think it's, to people say it's not anchoring. I don't understand how that could possibly be an argument. Like it's literally up against your arm. Yeah, I guess I, feels like a weird Titan

Accountie that could have been addressed when the anchoring, the bellied up really well. Yeah, that, exactly. It's kind of, yeah, it's, it would have been so easy to just be like, oh, yeah, you just can't, you can't have an anchor at anywhere But your arm you can anchor it on your arm. So it just seems like it's it would be I don't know I guess I've

It takes it takes a lot of the the the wrist the nerves I mean anything inside of 10 feet seems like it's a lot easier to stroke and but then people say if it's that easy Why don't you do it and it's like well? It doesn't work for me. I mean, I just it's a lot easier to stroke. But then people say if it's that easy, why don't you do it? And it's like, well, it doesn't work for me. I mean, I just, it's not like I'm saying, oh, I like it harder. I'd much rather golf be harder, but it just doesn't work for me. But I don't think that someone because they maybe necessarily have a little something going on at the end of their stroke should be able to just throw it up against their arm and it goes away. What's, what's golf look like for you in the next two

months? What are you, uh, or how you gonna spend your time after the end of this crazy 15 month stretch, whatever it's been? Um, starting like literally from now, the next whole month, I'm gonna play hero. I'm gonna play father, son with dad. I'm gonna do. Cap allua.ua. I might add Tori this year. I'll do, what am I doing? Then it's Phoenix, LA, and then after that, I'm not sure. Then it gets in that tough area in Florida.

But. You're taking some downtime off while you're home for the next couple months in between events, or? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, be off. I'm usually, during this time of year, I want to do nothing but take vacations. And after this year, that's the last thing I want to do.

Like, I'm enjoying this time at home so much. It's really been great. Just got a couple of things here and there. We have a place in Nashville we're going to go for Thanksgiving for me and my new fiance Jill her family's going so we're gonna go there and then is that information public yet? It's not no. Remember when I told you I couldn't do something a couple weeks ago. Oh

Gosh congratulations. I did not know this. Yeah, thank you Not enough to give you shit for wondering why this hasn't happened yet. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, just probably heard doing a lot of wedding planning and we just chill on and keep playing. No, no, no, no, you have to a bad start there. You got to be involved in the wedding planning. I learned that part as well.

So, all right, well, thanks. I'm glad we can get back on our regular schedule program and you're doing this once every fall last last I know 2020 through a wrinkle in it but thanks for having me down for always enlightening conversation and look forward to see what's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most.

Expect anything different. And different.