No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 500: Tony Jacklin

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

Tony Jacklin joins to discuss playing in seven Ryder Cups before being tasked with transforming virtually everything about the event from the European side. He tells the story of The Concession, a hair-raising ride in Arnold Palmer's plane, Seve, and the challenges of trying to make it on the US Tour as a Brit. He also details heartbreak he experienced as his wife suddenly died at the age of 44, losing his fortune, differences with IMG, peers that rubbed him the wrong way, and so much more.  Pick up a copy of Tony Jacklin's book "My Ryder Cup Journey" here: https://www.amazon.com/Tony-Jacklin-Ryder-Cup-Journey-ebook/dp/B09CLPF8YG Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Leng up podcast. Sully here got an excellent hour plus interview coming shortly with Tony Jacqueline. We go into great details of his book that is out called My Writer Cup Journey. It is available on Amazon as well as through the publishers Pegasus Elliott and McKenzie. Man, he did not hold back kind of telling a lot of the stories that are

within it. I still highly recommend the book. I could not put it down. I was reading until 1 a.m. My wife kicked me out of the room actually because I was reading it on my phone because they sent a very digital copy. I couldn't go to sleep. I had to finish it. Just great little nuggets about all the people he's encountered in his life, stories about Arnie Jack, and some of the people that made life miserable for him when he was trying to make it out on the US tour. And I just greatly appreciated him telling the stories. I want to give a shout out to Shane Ryan as well, his podcast, The Rider Cup Run. It was a great inspiration for a lot of the questions that came his way,

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If you see a bottle, give it a try. You will not be disappointed. No laying up is brought to you by Elijah Craig Kentucky straight right whiskey barreds town Kentucky 47% alcohol by volume Elijah Craig reminds you to think wisely drink wisely But on the further delay, let's get to Tony Jacqueline. Okay, so the first line I read in the book was from a Forward, I believe it, but the first line says Tony Jacqueline changed the writer cup forever Many different ways we could go with that. But what does that mean in your opinion? I just thought that Europe had a wrong approach to it. We had a...

And I can only... I can only make reference to the years I played, you know, a very British approach. What does that mean? It means, it wasn't very professional, it means, if you're talking about sport. You know, I mean, you, sports people, when I was young and competitive, it was about winning. And we went into so many rider cups with the winning being an assort of afterthought, something that it was much more important to turn up and, you know, step up a lip and all that chaps, you know. Bravado, I mean, but the British way was, you know,

it was more important to shop, and certainly it didn't matter much what you looked like. Why does that matter? Because you talk about that a lot in the book, but I see where you're going, but I for the listeners, I want to understand that. Well, I can only speak for myself, but I feel the listeners. I want to understand that. Well, I can only speak for myself, but I mean professionally when I played golf, I, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, And I was on exhibition as was my game. And so I felt it was always important to give a positive tidy appearance for yourself, for your self-esteem's point of view.

I needed that for my personal self-esteem. I needed to know things were right and tidy and what I had in my golf bag. I had enough golf balls and my clubs were clean and on and on. It was just, it was a professional way to go about things. But when we were in the team, aspect of things back in the 60s and 70s, under various captains. These issues weren't always that important to them. You know, we were wearing clothes, anything anybody would give us.

I mean, one year I remember in mid 70s, we looked like Lauren's, well, expand, I mean, now the jackets had braiding around the edges and my God, and we had plastic shoes that were welded, you know, tops to bottoms. And then you got opposite, you know, American counterparts, and they all look like James Bond, you know, they all had these immaculate suits.

We were on the back of the bus on British Airways, flying over here, not knowing who's gonna pay for the drinks or whether we, it was unprofessional, this was what it was. And, you know, when I was asked to be captain, which was only six months before the matches in 83. I mean, clearly behind the scenes, they couldn't decide what they wanted or who they wanted as captain. That's crazy to think now, because now it's 18 months maybe, the two announce a captain,

yeah. Yeah, and of course it was too late. I mean, I didn't find out, believe it or not, to 15 years after, that it was Bernhard Langer that insisted that we have a captain that was more of age-wise as the team was. I mean, historically, we'd had captains who were a generation of more older. And you know, he wasn't necessarily in touch, personal touch would deploys from week to week. But of course, you know, when they approached me, I was angry and I'd been left out of the team in 81, in favor of Mark James, who behaved abominably in 79 at the first European match at the Green Brow.

Tell us about that, him and Ken Brown. Well, yeah, they got, they got 11 the biggest fine in the history of the PGA up to that point when they got back home because there would just be disruptive, you disruptive, bloody minded that didn't turn up to meetings long time. There would be a rather wrong outfit or a magazine in front of a face when there was supposed to be being photographed and look away when the camera came on. You just like school boys. Was it a protest of sorts? I guess.

I mean, I don't, Mark James was 25 years old. I'd won two majors when I was 25 years old. You talk about being immature. I mean, he was a pan in the ass, a big time. And actually, we all felt sorry for John Jacobs because nobody warned him me because he didn't really know how to react to it. It was, I mean, personally, I had a centimum, but anyway, I have been gone through all thatr 79, yw'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 i'n 18 in front of me. And I was miffed at that and I thought, well, stuff here, you know, and I just walked away and forgot about Ryder Cup. And of course, that same year, Savvy was

argueably the best player in the world, and they didn't want to him on the team either. So, you know, back to the sort of British, you know, if you don't want the best player on your team, in the team, in the world, on your team, I mean, what's it all about? And so, Savvy was as, as, as, as Mifters I was, and we turned it back on it, and literally, as I said, they came six months before. I imagine my first reaction was to say, I'm going to get stuffed, you know, because, you know, I just, I just not thought about it anymore.

There were a shower as far as I was concerned, a total shower that couldn't run a raffle. And it's important to note to this point, Europe or Great Britain or Great Britain and Ireland had won one time in the history of the Ryder Cup in however many years, to this point, correct? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I was there at Lindrich in 57.

57, was a 13-year-old, and that was when I decided golf was gonna be my life. I first time I saw seeing the greatest players, you know. And anyway, I didn't, I bit my tongue which is pretty good for me. We're not going to do that today. And I said, look, I can answer your question, I need to sleep on it. And I was staying with a friend of mine in Leeds and went back, had a nice dinner and chatted

and thought about it. And I went back the next day and I said, look, I'll do it. On my own terms, I said, I need carte blanche to do what I want. And well, what do you want? And I said, well, I won't concord, which is no more, less than the Americans are traveling to travel. For the listeners, that's supersonic jet

that was flown in that time period. Some of our listeners are young and may not know what concord is. Well, that's right. And I said, I want, you know, first class clothing, several row suits and all the rest of it. And I want a team room where we can be together and nurture some camaraderie together. And be, you know, just for the wives and the players,

not for anybody else, not for caddies or agents or members of the PGA or I just want us to be and I want everything in that room that they will need. Food and beverage, you know, fish, pasta, meat, whatever anybody wants on TV so they don't have to go anywhere. And they could say, okay, and I said, well, it's okay. You weren't expecting yeses to these demands. Well, you know, I said, if you agree to give me all the things I want, I'll do it. And then Lord Derby, who was the president of the PGA. Just backing up a little bit, you know, Samuel Ryder, when he instigated this match,

international match, the PGA was one entity. The club professionals and the player, tournament players were all one. We split that, that broke up in the late 60s and the PGA. Yeah, exactly. We followed suit tos and the PGA. Exactly. We followed suit to what happened in PGA. He had a players division in the club professionals.

So Derby was the figurehead. He was Queen's cousin. And he was hovering around to see what my answers were and to the questions. So I said to him, now what about Savvy? He says, well, you've accepted the captain's job, he's your problem. Of course, Savvy was anything but a problem to me, somebody I admired, and you know, I was past my best as a player, but he was, he was carrying the torch for European golf.

I mean, he was as good as anybody on the planet. And he had this amazing charisma as well, good looking lot. One of the masters in 1980, so he was international superstar already, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So he was my first target and we met at Prince of Wales Hotel. I think he was playing golf at Burkdale within a week, so of me accepting a job. We had breakfast. We met for breakfast, just a two of us. He vented, as I expected he would.

And I said, Savi, I agree with everything you've said. And, you know, he's manager during that period was looking for a parents phase four, and if he came to tournaments, well, if he came to a tournament, he would put 50% on the gate. Mm-hmm. And of course, the European tour didn't have to deal with it.

They never sat him down and said, oh, words, these managers. And now, how can we move forward together and make this thing work? Instead, they just bound him from right to cut. So he's going on and I said, that's all behind us. I'm in charge, and I can't do it without you. And it's as simple as that. You know, I had my career, what you're doing, you're in the middle of it okay, I help you. He's English wasn't that fantastic at this point in time.

And basically, the rest history, I didn't get any captain's pick that year because we were already in the season. So we went 12, right down the mud list and we incorporated all these changes. I got my team room. I'd been over. Jack was the American captain, Palm Beach Guards,

and was his home. I came over, we identified a team room, got everything the way it needed to be. And we came over on Concorde, which was pretty special I can tell you. Tell the story of how that got funded though. How did that? Well, I don't think when I demanded it,

they had a clue how they were gonna pay for it. But what happened was they got some wealthy golfers who were interested in ride a cup business people and they put them on the plane, whether they paid a premium for that. Pretty sure ways obviously did there bit. I don't know what the numbers were, but the plane was full.

And apart from the team, it was just these benefactors of golf, especially riding cup. And we all landed at Palm Beach, Porton Jack and Barbara were there to greet us. And hottest hell, it was, I remember. And we got the thing started. In those days, it finished on a Saturday. We settled into this sort of team.

It's the first time we'd ever had a circumstance where we were sharing time. All the years I played, we would, in the evenings, you would go off with your wife and another couple to a local restaurant. You know, once you knew what to time you played the next day, this was kind of no way to... Get your arms around the whole team, yeah. Exactly.

So the team room worked beautifully and we played very well. I mean, the players, I didn't do any more than take care of them, Ruppam and Cottonwall and do, and show them that I cared about how they were being treated. And they responded. They responded like the professionals responded. Before we knew where we were, it was Saturday afternoon and we were, God, we looked like we're going to win this thing. It was absolutely amazing. That being said, there were half a dozen of

the European press, clad off to Disney World. That's an amazing story. I mean, I can't, I can see it now. They're all coming back with a Mickey Mouse bag having been there all day. And we've, you know, as a team, we've gone with it within a fraction of getting it done. And we're all gutted. They got back just in time for the presentation,

prizes, it was dusk, you're getting dusk and, and I thought, what a shower. You know, I saw them all coming back and they were there, but it tells between their legs, it was shameful. Anyway, I digress. And, you know, we were a miserable bunch, I guess. You know, we're on the desk, I have a video it, and all looking pretty down. And it was savvy who said, hey, don't be so sad.

This is not a loss. This is victory for us. This is the best we've ever done in America. And he wasn't wrong, but he pointed and we took the positives from it, or he was he did. And as we had to be on that, once it was all said and done, and we flew back home and digested it, it was a hell of a performance. In my own case, I looked as you do as a golfer, you weed your garden, and I looked at the changes I'd made, you know, the concord, the team room,

the things that I'd done to improve, and I thought they all worked well. And we just bided our time to two more years, that flew by and the team was very much similar to what we had in 1983, we had another couple major champions in there. It was a golden time for Europe, you know, with the likes of Langer and Wuznum coming on a Lassoball all major winners. And we got it done in front of the home crowd at the Belfry, which was historic, you know, 28 years. It had been since Lindrich, and of course Bernhard was was 28 years old and he said I remember him saying to me

that's a long time as far as I'm concerned and of course it's been a long time for me too. I've been a 13 year old at Lindrick seeing all those great players. No laying up is brought to you by our friends at Precision Pro Golf. Our favorite rangefinder is now on sale for Black Friday, insanely discounted price of $55 off the NX-9 is the highest selling slope rangefinder on Amazon and trusted by over 100,000 golfers, PGA professionals. And most importantly, everyone here at NoLang up, that's their where it's not ours. But the Precision Pro Black Friday good news does not stop there. Precision Pro is proud to announce the next big thing in golf technology. It's the long awaited Ace Smart Speaker, a groundbreaking portable Bluetooth speaker

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Let's get back to Tony Jacklin. You know, we're not that far removed from, I believe you write in the book that in 1969, or excuse me, what year was it that there were cars pulled up to the 18th Green? 69. 69, as I burnt it, okay, I didn't realize. Right, yeah, around that, the clubhouse is like a ship, you know, it's like a bridge of

a ship, and it was so damn dark, I was playing with, I think I was playing Neil Cosogen to Travino and so and it was, you know, four sums of four ball in one day was, it's tough over in England late September the days are very short and we all missin' around, we all miss little parts on the last call but but we were putting on the headlights of these cars coming through. And that was the year, of course, of a concession that Jack conceded to two footer for the first tie in history, which was... Let's do that story. I know you've told that many, many times. It's been referred to many times, but I think for the sake of history on this podcast, we'd love to

hear this story because it goes back to at least the previous hole as well being a huge curve ball that was thrown in the match. Yeah, that's right. I mean, we were all squattery 15 and I lost 16, which was par 4. 17 was a par 5. We both hit long lines into the green and I was maybe 50 feet and Jack was 25, he was half the distance. And I hold this 50 footer. I mean, obviously I was trying to do it, but I mean, at that stage, anybody that plays golf knows that these things don't happen when you most want

them to. And anyway, went in from 50 feet, the crowd went bananas and Jack missed his part, we were all square and ironically Brian Huggett was a future captain, not a very good one I put. Yeah, he he was he had a five footer four five footer on the last screen and he had this roar he thought I'd beaten Jack because the last time you'd seen a scoreboard were all squit didn't realize I'd lost 16 anyway he hold the pot like a tenacious little soddie was he was he was a tenacious player hug it and he sort of broke down on Captain Eric Brown's jacket, the power off, we've done it, we've done it. And Eric said to him, no, no, no, that was Jack,

they just getting even. And of course, reality steps in as it does. And anyway, Jack and I, by this time we were walking to 18T Old Square, we'd both hit three woods off the tee, good shots, both in the far away. And I was hairing off ahead of him, and he hollered after me, don't he? I waited, he caught me up and put his hand on my shoulder and we started walking together. He's looking at me and he says, are you nervous?

I said, Jack, I'm bloody petrified. And he said, I just thought I'd ask because if it's any consolation, I feel just the same way you do. And I mean, I'm telling you, it's not where you want to be. I mean, your teammates are all done. The matches, the outcome is reliant on our game and I had a good eight times second

shot, went about 25-30 feet per hour. Jack hit it in close to the night in, maybe 20 feet or so. And I put it up two feet, 20 inches to two feet. That's his reckoning, not mine, and I marked. And he had this pot to take it all to win the ride cup. And I'm stood there saying, well, you know, just basically waiting it out. And he hit this stem pot, he hit it for an hour, five feet past, too far past for me to say, or suggest, good good, you know, I mean it was that was out of the question. So now I'm thinking I'm still not a T.J. Now whatever else happens you're gonna have to make this pot, you know, that was my focus. And of course, he steps up and I didn't great player, putter, he was, he holds his putt.

And in the doing of it, as he picks up, goes to pick the ball out the hole, he picks my markup. First, he did it all in one sort of, and the realization came in, I don't have to make my partner more, you know, relief. Call it what you will. But that was the concession. And you had won the open a couple months before you'd written, had a new hero, if you like, and he didn't want to say anything happened to spoil it.

And he said, I don't think you would have missed it, but I would never give you the opportunity in these circumstances, which was, and that was the only time I put pen to paper to a fellow pro, and just, you know, I just said, your gesture on 18 was something that will live with me forever and it was a great moment of sportsmanship of course and we built golf course 15 years or so ago not too far from where we're sitting and it turned out to be successful, the concession. And of course,

they instigated Nicholas Jackson Award at the Ryder Cup this year, which was great honor, as far as we're concerned, and it will go on in perpetuity and kind of nice to know that. kind of nice to know that. The relief on your face in that image is pretty, it's apparent to viewers. You know, it's the kind of put that only something bad could have happened right. Of course, you're expected to make it, but it's impossible not to think, don't screw up. I think even for a champion like yourself, I've had a few seizures since then. I can tell you that.

So, you know, not to have to make it was obviously a relief. Well as long as we're on rider cups from the past, I needed you to take us to 1967, which I believe was your first rider cup. Going up in a plane with Arnold Palmer at the 1967 rider cup, tell us about that. Well he just bought a new lead jet and we were in Houston at Champions Club, the club that Jimi de Merritt and Jackie Burke built and owned. We were hitting balls on the range and he's done, Arnold just gets finished. Okay, who wants to come formuck, I put my hand up. George Will, what a Scottish teammate of mine was next to me. And yeah, I'm up for it.

And Bobby House, he was the pro at Brawlburg, he was over there with the group. And Jimmy, he was an aviator himself. So we all go off its only around the corner of the airport and we climb into this, it wouldn't be, you know, there's not very big, you can't stand up in them. But it was pretty luxurious and off we went and before we knew where we were sort of going sedately over the golf course and you could see where we'd been half an hour before hitting balls and there were still some of the guys out there and you could recognize their swings where we were pretty low in this thing.

And I thought this is lovely and all of of a sudden, he turns to stink around and we go, we're going flat out at about 500 feet, you know, and everything's flashing by like it. And then he pulls it back and we go and straight up and spinning and he's got this thing turning around. And I'm looking up the aisle towards the pilot because he's up there. Arnold was with his pilot, Darryl Walsh, was his pilot. And he's laughing his ass. He's roaring laughing, you know, looking back at us. George will pay his debts. I mean, it was horrendous.

Literally, this is not- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, too well, you know, on rollercoaster and things like that. But I was so glad to get down in one piece for a start. And we went back to the club after. And there was all hell that lost. I mean, it was all the aviation people were on the phone. Darrell, his pilot was on the phone. Yes, a politician, an Arnold to his eternal credit. He went and grabbed the phone off Darrell. And he was taken, he took the rap, you know,

for what it did, because he knew if Darrell lost the license, he was screwed. And Demerick wrote a groveling letter. And anyway, it was pretty, for 23-year-old, making his right of Cup debut. It was something to see the king having to grovel like he did, but how the hell he got away with that. I'll never know. I know I don't want it to happen again. It was a good one-time experience. It was a rum remarkable. And of course, Hogan was the American captain that year.

He was, and I think it's fair to say, that was no love lost between Harnald and Hogan. What's the origin of that? I've always heard that. Yeah, I think it's a respect thing. It was like, you know, a hoagin' never mind important people to back in those days, you could choose what ball you played. This would be interesting for some of the young people,

but the British ball was 1.62 in diameter, and the American ball was 1.68. And I think I'm right and saying that it weighed the same in ounces as they measured. I wouldn't be certain about that bit. But you got choice whether you played a small ball or the big ball. That was when you played in Scotland for the open. You could choose, but in America it was always, you know, it had been the big ball. And I think in those days you got the choice.

I think I'm writing an Arnold Made in Inquiry to Oak, and as to what ball, you know, they were recommending a play. And Oak said, who said you're playing? You know, like, that's the kind of put down he didn't mind. And he would enjoy that. I heard you always referred to him as Palmer too, which was kind of a little put down. One of the really funny things that week for me, again,

23 years old. And there was, American Plays, Johnny Park was on the team Gabriel, God love him, he became a dear friend. But they were scared to death of Hogan coming out and looking at practice. Oh God, I hope it doesn't come and look at me. You know, Because he was, you know, Hogan was it. I mean, I'm saying, I never, he was perfection. I never saw anything like it. I never saw anything better. And I got to play with him a couple years after that.

And of course, he didn't look at the, where the ball was. He was looking at the player. And of course, in Gays' case, I in case he had that bloody corkscrew swing, you know, he knew his swing was anything but perfect. He was digging a living out of this game despite the fact that he had that agricultural kindness swing. And he didn't want to perform much in front of Mr. Hogan. It was funny. It was really funny at the time. So tell me about what's it like playing with Arnold Palmer

and a writer cup? And I don't know if this is the same time to ask about. The story you tell in the book about playing the Canadian Open with him and Jack, as well. Well, it was that year. It was at same year. So the Canadian Open had been a little earlier. We're now in September and Canada was sort of in mid-Summer.

We're in Montreal. And of course, in those days, they only televised the last three halls. Actually, a lot happened that year. You know, I actually did the first hall I would ever televised in 1967 as well, playing winning the Masters at Rawls and George's. So within weeks we're at the Canadian Open and Andrew Amin's Palmer and Nicholas and the last round in the 16th hall, the first hall that they're televising was a 265 yard par four. And Arnold's got the tea and at the end of the tea there's one of these a big old gray old-fashioned cameras, TV cameras. And Arnold's just a tea the ball up and he said Jack comes up behind me and he says watch

him when the red light goes on. And so I'm watching this and all of a sudden in the red light, he knows he's up, he's on. And he starts giving it the snorts and the shirts out of the back already. And he rips into this driver. And 265 was about pretty much the limit for then with the old ballata ball and stuff. And he gave it that, you know, that Palmer helicopter spinning. Helicopter spin at the end, and of course, ball goes right in the middle of the green, you know, and another couple of, you know, and I just smiled at Jack, you know, and that

was it, you know, it was the John Wayne bit, if you like, you know, I mean, that's why, that's what made him so great, and that's why everybody loved him. It was something I'll never forget. I love that story. That's fantastic. A quick break to check in with our friends at Ro-Back. We have been talking a lot about them. We even put some of their stuff in our store. We just can't keep it on the shelves. That's the only issue we're having with it. First of all, their performance polos fit so much better than your typical boxy polos. Their four-way stretch is next level. The material's super soft stays wrinkle free.

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he's drinking during the matches. Is that, is that, is that my tell of that story? Remember in that record? Yeah, I remember vague. I mean, Bonzi used to do that as well on all, on all, on all, say our channel. Barnes he would mark his ball with a can of double diamond, you know, back in the UK. I mean he was he was notorious for it not Lee but I mean you know, you know, literally Lee doesn't drink as far as I'm aware now. I think he packed it in a long, long ago. But no, there was stuff going on that wouldn't happen today. Let's put it that way.

And then along the same lines, J Herbert, the captain, the 1971 team. He had some issues after that. Well, yeah, he couldn't, I don't know what the hell he was talking about when he was making his victory speech. I mean, he was so bombed he couldn't put two words together. I mean, he was, I think he was invited to sit down after five minutes. Nobody knew what the hell he was trying to say. But it was a different time and fun to look back

and remember those times that was changed a great deal over the last 50, 60 years and I've seen most of it. Well that's why I wanted to get as many of these stories documented as well as you know we're talking to the guy here that is responsible for changing a lot of that. And as so much as a Ryder Cup one, the fact that the Ryder Cup went on as long as it did when it was so one-sided is somewhat of a miracle. And there were many times where it looked like it may not go on, especially after World War II and whatnot.

And you know, all these things that we laugh at now. No, I get right. And individuals stepped up to the plate in between the war. There was a friend of mine at Royal Burgdale, stepped in in 65. They couldn't find a sponsor for it. He said, what we're talking about, you know, what was kind of money. He said 25,000 pounds, he said. He said, get on with it. And that was Brian Park, and I got to know Brian very well. I lived on the island of Jersey for tax purposes back in the 70s, and Brian was there. We played a lot of golf and Graham is son and I was still with tweet and he tweets bits on right a cup and obviously he's very proud of what his father

did and rightly so. But for Brian Park it wouldn't have happened that year and there was an American I think did the similar thing. Robert Hudson. Yeah, Hudson, prior to that. 1947. Yeah, absolutely. So, here we go. But then you got to 77, but Liddham, where I, I won my open, and Huggett was a captain. And Wysegoth got picked for the team. And Tom and I had great powers. He was one of my closest friends, still is. And he's been through a tough time this last year. But he decided it was more important for him to go to Alaska and shoot a ram with curly horns then it was to play in the Rider Cup, which was a foregone confusion, if you like.

And so the writing was on the wall, it's basically, that was the first time anybody, as far as I'm aware, got picked for the Rider Cup and didn't bother showing up. That prompted Jack, after those matches at Lidham, to write to Lord Derby, who was, as I said earlier, the head of the PGA, and suggested Europe be involved in the freight. And another very fascinating thing, and I don't think I spelled this out so much in the book, but then there were only Spain, but I think in the 79 match, which was my last match, first European match, turned out to move my last as a player, there were only two Spanish players, Antonio, Gerido and Seve. Maybe, maybe Canazaris was in that, but I think there was only two. And they were the only country represented.

This year, this very year, now, 2021, there's been 14 European nations represented in the Ryder Cup, you know, with Victor Hovland and the Danes now and the Swedes. So it's pretty amazing to have witnessed that. You know, we involved Europe, but there were only one European country that was at that standard, you know, right, that had players that were able to represent the country. So there's a lot of water going under the bridge since that first match in 79 in the Green Brow. Is it water under the bridge now with you and Brian Huggett after the... We talk, I mean.

What happened there? Well, he was bloody hopeless. He's what happened. I mean, he changed personality. He came aloof. You know, he wanted to spend time with his wife and we would invite him to, you know, let's all go and come join us for dinner.

No, no, no, we always do this, that, yeah. And then, of course, never talked to us about parings or who was with who. I ended up playing with Aiman Darcy, the Irishman, who actually hold the putt at Mielfield Village in 87 to mean we couldn't lose. Everyone, Savi hold the winning putt, but Aiman hold the one four footed down the hill on the 18th screen against

Crenshaw. I'll never forget that. Anyway, Aiman and I were, were pals, but you know, we didn't, uh, you know, there was, it was nothing more than that, you know, our golf games didn't necessarily complement each other and so on. Anyway, we lost. a gafgems yn ysgol yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ywch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ywch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn That's why you're talking about you, you know, little, you know, I mean, it was insulting and just spectators everywhere. And I said, we're supporting the team. Oh, you know, he's shouting off his mouth. So I, you know, I told him in non-sert in terms of what I thought of him.

I said, you know, this is not a bloody football team. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. You're out of order. Anyway, I was out of the team. He dropped me from the singles. I went the open at this place and I'm actually proud to say I'm not going to remember the club now, but he was useless. Honestly, and he actually got a gun for it. He got the MBE for a job well done. I mean, that's how Britain works. It's extraordinary. And anyway, I've seen him since, of course, and then it was after that that I had my successful runners captain and made the changes and we we talk you know but his captain he was something that I'd rather forget. That being said it was part of history because it prompted Jack to write the letter had to let it not been written it wouldn't be the European write a cup.

And that's what I wanted to spend so much time on that is this series of follies that you experience as a player from shoes falling apart to not travel. No team, all of these things contribute greatly to all the things that you were responsible for changing. And then so you talked about some of the demands you made, you know, going into 83, but now you're rolling into 1985. And you have a time period now to really implement some changes, including how the team was selected and whatnot. Tell us about that.

I wanted to know that going into 85, I had the best 12 players available. going into 85 that I had the best 12 players available. Obviously with the format we have now, you can hide players the first two days, but ultimately everybody's out there on Sunday. You just, you need to know you've got the 12 the best. So I wanted it extra captains, actually I wanted to, but I wouldn't have been too controversial. And I remember the great scribe, Peter De Bruyner

at the time, where his dear friend is long gone to the swells now, but he said, let him pick him all. What the hell is he going to need? Don't look at his brother in law, you know. Anyway, I got my extra pick and actually, and of course it was historic again because I picked Jose Rivera, a Spaniard who was fresh blood, but he'd won a tournament earlier that year at the Belly Free, where we were playing. And he was more or less tied in appearance in the prize money with Christiokona, Jr. Anyway, it was toss up between those two on the money list. And because Rivera had won there at the Bell Free, I came down for him as a captain's pick, my extra pick. Christy, well, he never spoke to me again for a year. Well, it was two years beyond that that my first wife passed away and that was the only time he taught me. He came up and said, I'm sorry, I didn't want to wait and

spoke to me again. For another two years, until I actually picked him as a captain. The ride of cup had become such an unbelievable, everybody wanted to be in it. It was a force. It was absolutely for Europeans. Christie was cut to a quick. I mean, he really got, he was hurt. But, and I was sorry about that, but I would, you know, I was out to feel the best players

I could. Not make friends, yeah. And it wasn't about being, you know, I, well, that being said, I wanted to be everybody's friend, but I wanted the best team out there, and, you know, anyway and anyway, we got it done and in front of the home crowd at the Bell Frida looked after us admirably, and it was, we didn't get off to the ideal start, you know, we were behind, I think, after the first series. Craig Stadler missed a little put on the 18th

Queen. Personally, apart from being shocked, I thought, good, I wouldn't want that to happen to anybody. Anyway, by the time I got to the team room, they're all jumping around like, Savvy is going, yes, you've now now this is the different, this is the change, this is what we needed to have them, they're all going bananas, you know, and it actually turned out that we were able to, from that point forward, take the upper hand and get it done, but we're on the roof of the dam. It's quite a scene, it's a scene that, you know, it's not, it's, it hadn't happened yet in this event's history, right? And for people that are my age, it is,

we're very used to seeing European celebrations, but it's interesting to look back at and hear the stories of, you know, all the things that have happened prior to this happening. So going back, you, you know, outside the writer cup, your name, you know, outside the Ryder Cup, your name comes up in US golf much more frequent. I guess it's not a common thing for Europeans to play most of their golf in the United States and the 60s and whatnot. What do you remember about that time period? Why did you come over to the United States to play and how were you greeted by certain people out on tour?

Well, in simple terms, I wanted to be as good as I could be. I made a promise to myself when I was in my teens that if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it and give it my all. And I wanted to be the best player in the world. I didn't think about majors, I wasn't thinking about anything money, I wasn't thinking about anything other than being the best player in the world. And I knew if I wanted to do that,

I'd have to be at the likes of Nicholas and Trevino and Palmer and all these guys. And no heroes, I never had a hero. My closest, if I did, would be Hogan, which he was a generation gone, you know. I mean, he's playing days away. And so I came, got my tour card in 67, and you know, pitted my self against a bit,

what the best player. And I loved America. From the moment I first came at the Carling World Tournament in 1965, Boston, Massachusetts, up there, I just loved it. Elvis Presley, bloody big limousines and Cadillacs. You know, America was it, as far as I was concerned, I wore bright clothes I liked to dress up and

I didn't mind showing off. You know, and I was made for it. And I thoroughly enjoyed my time. It was the best time of my life. I got married in 1966. I got the call from Augusta National and early 1967 when I was playing golf in the Far East and we were traveling out there with my wife who were on a sort of three-year honeymoon we went on. We stopped in at Augusta. I actually led the masters after eight holes in the third round. I was playing with Bob and Nichols and he's still down the coast here now and he said, he says to me, he's often said to me, I thought you were going to win that deal. Of course, I'd never done, I'd never won anything. I was, you know, 23. I was, I was on the learning curve and ultimately choked

and, certainly, seven or less around in the Masters, but that same year was the year I hold in one. I won the Dunlop Masters, got my tour card, won Jacksonville the following year, and March playing with Palmer the final day and done January. I mean, that was bigger than the tournament being able to get it done playing with Arnold, because it was... In the first European to win since the 20s in the United States, it was a very uncommon thing at the time. No, that's it. And then IMG, I befriended a guy from South Africa called George Bloomberg, who was a

friend of Gary Players, and George was a multi-millionaire, I would travel the world playing golf. He was the director of IMG and he suggested that he talked to somebody with regards to representing me. Of course that somebody was Martin Kormack and it was during the 68 around that time, that I went with IMG. And I wish I'd never met Martin for God's George Blumberg. I mean, that's the up, long and short of that story. But essentially, you know, McCormack was an opportunist. He was going global with not just golf, but with fashion and

house cut salons. He represented all sports, you know, Jean-Claude Keelian, Skynjakis, Stuart and motor racing. He was, he was, you only need to have lived through the last 50 years to see what the IMG became. And he wanted me in Europe to attract other European sports people. And I was busy back and forth six,

seven times a year playing the US tour, still based in England, and a wonderful club affiliation with Sea Island in Georgia, which he priced me out of there. You know, he could have easily got me a condo there and I could have earned it over five years, but they termination to not do that. They cancelled that contract because they couldn't afford me. And I was left, you know, back and forth again, traveling and never had a base here during that time. He and all his influential young people that passed through him were all instructed to say, Jacqueline belongs in Europe. And of course, meanwhile, I

had my window of opportunity. It was ended up being a lot shorter than it could have been. And I wasn't wise enough to walk away. When I won the open, I wanted to go to a beach and contemplate life somewhere. I met with him the day after I won the open, and he said, you've got no time going to any beaches. He says, you've got to go to America. And I came out here and played for weeks and missed four cuts. I was open champion, you know, but I was... You're exhausted.

Hex, totally, and totally spent. And if you don't turn up, mind and body together. I mean, anybody can turn up. but if you're not there with your mind, if your mind's not on it and your inspiration's not there to do what you've got to do, you never going to, it's never going to work. So, you know, my dad was a keen golfer, it was a truck driver, ordinary guy, didn't know about stuff like this. I had nobody close to me that did. I was flying by the seat of my pants. And by the time it came to 1972, I'd had enough.

Although I was exempt for 10 years over here because of my US open went. I'd had enough and I went back to live in England and it was worse thing that could have happened. And then, God, I could go on, but they changed the financial system, went to decimalization and everything doubled overnight. The Labour government got in and taxes on worldwide income were 83% for me. And I went to live in this island of Jersey, which is where Emorsden and has a home now. But, you know, I'd lived there for eight years,

that wasn't an ideal place. 70,000 alcoholics clinging to a rock, you know, not the most ideal spot to perform international sport from. And then I lived in Spain for eight years and it just changed I should have been over here when I won my majors. There's no question about that. Well on a different note to you detail in the book how your financial luck also took a you had a bad turn in the in the 80s I believe as well. Lloyd's names was a new thing for me.

I'm maybe a bit younger than that. For our listeners, could you explain kind of how that? No, Lloyd's of London was one of the biggest insurance, all the politicians, Winston Churchill. There were all Lloyd's names, members of Lloyd. And essentially, if you could show a hundred thousand pounds, you could underwrite 200. And it was something that people did, you know, wealthy people, wealthy people did. Well, IMG put me into Lloyd's. I didn't. They took care of it all. Essentially, you don't

put all your eggs in one basket. You're just because the underwriting under this company or corporation made a lot of money. You have a good spread And I took a stop loss policy out, figured out how much I could afford to lose in a given year, wasn't much, you were like 20,000, I could afford to lose. But beyond that, this stop loss thing, anyway, the whole thing fell. And when you sign to be a member of Lloyd's, they took everything and it took some years to come to, but it was exactly more or less exactly as I turned 50. I lost everything. I did take your house. I lost everything and more. I had to borrow money to pay it off. It wasn't the ideal way to start a senior career.

So then what do you do next? You know, I don't know how we survive Jack help. I moved over here, which is what I should have done 40 years before. I lived in Jack's guesthouse for three months. I represented PGA National on the senior tour and I got a club deal thanks to Tom Crowe from the company's name now, but he was kind enough to give me a club deal. And I played the senior golf for four or five years, but he was, I was playing 32 on him and I wasn't exempt, by the way. I'm despite having one two,

two loan two ride-acrups, but two major championships. And all this old guard that put their senior tour together, that Bob Goldbiz and Garder Dickinson's and the like. Did everything in their power to keep foreign players out? Which is how? And the names we hear keep trying to keep you out in the 60s as well. Well, they were mean spirited bunch who essentially they were the ones who never traveled. You know, they didn't need to go outside of America,

but it wasn't the necklaces and Johnny Miller's and the Trevino's. They were all great. I mean, if you think you can play, come. But it was these, as I say, the main spiritual ones that you'd play that wouldn't even talk you at going around, one side, a word. Who was it that was within your shot of you and just said out loud, I don't think foreign

players, was it Dave Hill? Yeah. Yeah. Well, when Beaman was, when we were going through this split from the PGI and Dave Hill sat in the chat next to me, he stood up in the mean, he said, I don't think foreign players should be allowed to play. I said, sit down, you miserable sod. You know, I mean...

On what basis could you have thought? Yeah, but I mean that's the way they thought, they thought they were clever, saying things like that. And you know, they were... it was hurt it was it was a very tough tough time not a time that I can look back fondly that that being said it toughens you up you know it made me mentally strong it helped me make me mentally stronger I mean I remember driving to the airport after I won the US Open by seven shots in Minnesota to share a bus from my wife and gardener Dickinson never said a word. Never said a single word to me. Because that's one thing I've found at any level of, from ProGolf, Amitur Golf, there

is a sense of at least today, comradery or in terms of, you know, you root for each other, you congratulate people, you know, you want to play, you know, the other person played good and you play better and it just did not seem like you were greeted that way for many years. The week after the USO, I saw how he Johnston, he was another beauty. How he Johnston, he says, oh God, you made some pots last week, didn't you? I said, how are you? A one by seven.

Why the hell can't you just say, well, you know, he's not in him. He wasn't in them to be able to do that. Mean spirit, he's an understatement. It was rough. And I wasn't the only one that was getting it. Bruce Devlin, Harold Hanning, Gary, player, we were all getting Bruce Crampton. We were all getting the same treatment from the same Dan Sykes, what a horrible bloody human being he was. I played

with him at Durrell, and I'm leading the tournament, final round, team my ball up, minding my own business on the nine toe, which is like an island green. He says I played with Tommy Aaron here last year and he was leading and he went in the water. Clunk in the water, you know, who knows. One can only think that they did it for fun or thought it was some kind of fun. I don't know I don't It's sad So you win the 69 open championship at Latham you win the 70 US open at Hazelteen 1972 open championship at Berkdale and you've won two majors yet reading and hearing your quotes Over the years about that close call.

It's kind of heartbreaking hearing how much that had an effect on you. Where does the story of the 1972 Open Championship begin for you? Is it on the 71st hole or is it go before that? Well, it was at Muirfield. Oh, sorry Muirfield. Not burnt down and Obviously Muirfield is a you know, it the American Jackson, Murphild was named after after that one, it was his favorite links. And I think it might have been my favorite of all the links of course as well. But I went there playing, you know, I'd been playing some good golf, I finished third in the championship at Bertel in 71 when Trevino won and Mr. Lew finished second.

I've finished 15-70. You know, that's when I went out in 29 at San Andres and Birded 10 and the rain came and got washed. So I was in the mix, you know, for the championship all those years, but 72, Millfield, I was inspired, I'd play them well, we were all staying at Greywalls, that little hotel right there on the course. I remember Princess Margaret coming in that week and spent some time with everybody in the hotel. Silly things, I remember.

The rooms didn't have TVs in them, but there was a big TV lounge where we would gather. But Trevino got Willie H. and his caddy to buy him a TV. And he stayed in his room. We never saw Trevino in the hotel. He stayed in his room, his own tally, which he gave to his caddy after the event. But I got off to a great start, and I was right there. I mean, we were Nicholas at one of the first two tournaments majors of that year. won the first two tournament majors of that year. And I played with Trevino and that final round and we stood on the first tee and this is Trevino saying to me, he said, this is remarkable what I'm going to tell you now. He says, well, one of the six in front of him and the other seven in front of Jack. And he's out ahead of us, obviously. He says, well, Yn yw'n gweithio'r ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch Travino and I and Jack's on the 11th on the 12th tee and he's pasted both. You can

look this up, that's the beauty of today, you can Google. Anyway, we both eagled the ninth, I eagled on top of Travino to get back ahead of him. And then of course that was when Trevino chipped in. I played with him the last two rounds, he chipped him five times. And of course the final straw was the straw that brought this camel back. He did it on the 71st hole. I was in front of the green in2. He was over the back in four. He walked away with a five and I made six, I three-putted and I rested two and a half footer. I didn't part the last I bogged the last hole asator, but it was a heavy blow to take. You know, I looked for everything like I was going to win my third major, a second open.

You know, it had, that bigger role. And I just thought it was God's determination and just keep your head down. But I never saw flukes like it. Like, you know, I mean, on one of the occasions, he sculled his bunker shot and it went in, hit the green and then jumped in the hole on the fly. That was on, I think, 16 on the third round. And he came, I was on the green in two in the third round on the last hole.

He was over the back in two. He said, I'll just come up out the high rough bump in again. You know, just stuff. And I'd witnessed it and thought I'd played through it and got a then two to sort of go casually on that 71st hull over the back of the green like you know sort of half-trying. And he congratulated you on that hull, right? Before the hull was even over. Something, something.

I mean I, I don't, I wasn't here and I wasn't out for congratulations. I wasn't getting ahead of myself. I was trying to stay in the moment as you must in those circumstances. But it was audacious of what he did. And of course, it was the end of my major run. I won tournaments, I won tournaments every year through the 70s, but never threatened to the major again, which is, I knew that majors were the only really significant events that you'd be remembered for. So it kind of scuttled me for that. But, you know, one of the quotes I heard you said somewhere is that, you know, a part of

you died that day or knocked the stuffing out of you. You were just for the listeners, like you were 28 at this point. I mean, that's what is kind of... Yeah, and it was also though, it was also at the end of this sort of five-year war now, back and forth, back and forth, you know, 23, 25 trips back and forth from the UK to America doing my thing. And I was... I was about ready for that to end. I mean, it was no way to be living, you know, with started a family by then. I got a couple of kids. You can't

slap them everywhere. You go either, you know, I mean, life was becoming more far more complex than it had been when I was 23. And, you know, just having that sort of honeymoon period going around the world with my wife. We had need to settle and more stability had to come. And I was being caught by John Jacobs at the time. It was the beginning of the European tour. They started to go. And so I was able to get a couple of thousand pounds, which was what the first prizes were then, to go to play in Germany and Italy. I won the Italian Open in 73. When the German Open in 79, I won the Swedish Open in the mid-70s. It was easier to play in Europe. I had my comfort in my house to go back to

at weekends. I had a life, but it wasn't where it should have been. It should have been in America, and it would have freed me up a lot. With the British media were tough. I think it's well known how the tabloid presses over there. And I was subject to that, obviously, because I was in the public every I was in London every bloody week and except in opening something, doing this, doing that. It was like being in a golf-ish bowl, you know, living there, whereas, you know, the vastness of America can protect you from that sort of thing. And then another part of the book that was, I guess, surprising to me to learn and part of, I wasn't familiar with when your life is what happened to you in the late 80s in terms

of what you touched on there with. Your wife died very suddenly and the British tabloids become a part of the story. You meet your next wife all in a very, a time period where you also detail that you were understandably in a very, very dark place and I'm wondering what you're comfortable telling us about that time period.

Yeah, well, you know, again, you don't know, nobody knows what life's going to throw at them. And we were living in southern Spain at Valderama where, you know, they still play an event there. And we lived there for, I lived there for eight years. And it was 1988 and I was out playing golf with Sean Connery and a couple of other friends. Sean lived up in my bed, just up the coast, and often came down. We played a lot of golf in those days.

And we got the news on the golf course that something that had been an accident, we came in and she'd had a cerebral hemorrhage driving the car just outside the gas station where she filled the and all of a sudden gone. Three kids, old teenagers were off school, different places in England. In Spain, you bury the dead within 24 hours. So, you know, my life was upside down. Sure, Connery took the helm and took care of a lot of the stuff. We got very embarrassed the next day. He just went back to school the various places, but it mean our world was totally upside down. And took through two, three, four months, maybe in the summer,

it came summer of that year. I went down to London to play in a Bob Hope classic, which is Hope lent his name to that tournament over there. Met a waitress there and had a fling with her. I didn't know how old she was, or what was, you know, it was just, I was getting over this incredible earthquake that had happened in April. And maybe been dating this girl for a month or so. And I went back home. She came, she was there with me. One of my neighbours was giving a cocktail party at night, literally just around the corner. And I got invited, we went around there, and I, she had a sister

stay in my room from Miami, which was Astrid, and as soon as I asked her, I knew that was it, you know, that's, and I said, you know, invited her to stay and not go back to Miami put this girl back on a airplane to London from Gibraltar. She walked straight into the office of the Sun newspaper when she got into London. I told the world about you know this affair with into London. I told the world about, you know, this affair with Tony Jacqueline. Well, now I'm with Astrid and she had two children with her and I said, you know, we need to stay in each day here. Well, of course, it didn't take but 24 hours, 48 hours, the press was sitting on my doorstep, waiting for a story.

So we cleared off Astrid Night. We had some good friends close by. We told them, and we went off into the mountains near Malaga and checked into a hotel. And I kept ringing every other day. You know, what's it like? Can we come back to that? I hope for Christ. I don't come back yet. It's headlines every day in this in the tabloids. And anyway, George Bester was a great soccer player back in the day. He came out and said that this girl who had taken good, had their favorite, he knew her

when she was 14 years old and she'd been in a veteran Thailand. She was with some... Anyway, long story short, I'm off the hook. All of a sudden we come back home. Now it's another love story. It's like, you know, Astrid's in the saviour and she was of course. As much as it took a hell of a lot more than a few months to get over what had happened, Astrid was a mature woman, she was in mid 30s. Then I can't believe we've been married nearly 35 years now. But she was my savior and that she was, we got married in the same church as John Lennon and Yucca and that in Gibraltar. We brought the marriage forward onto 29th of December December 88. Our youngest son is 30. He was 30 this week and my youngest

granddaughter was born yesterday. Oh my goodness. So you know we have between as we have 15 grandchildren. Wonderful, wonderful family that are all over that place, but you know, between Europe and here, there is history. But yeah, it was a traumatic time, and nobody's life is all plain sailing. I mean, if you, you know, if you determine to make life an adventure, you've got to be prepared for bumps in the road. And that was a bit more than a bloody bump, I must say, looking back and putting it in perspective, it was not something you would expect to happen in the middle of your life, but we recovered.

Yeah, it's, you know, one of the things about the book that we don't even have time to get into is the near the end, just detailing all the people you've met in your life, the famous people, the celebrities, the royalties, all the things you've done with everyone. It's a life well lived, if I may say. It's an incredible chronicle, really. Yeah, we had a lot of fun, I may say it's an incredible chronicle really. Yeah we had a lot of fun I must say it was every bit an adventure. I am cheating because I know the answer to this question but how much golf do you watch these days and what do you think of the modern professional golf product?

Well you know golf got less interesting as time passes, you know, the men's golf is, you know, I think the powers that be have sort of failed in their effort to keep the game, keep the reins on the game. I think a cushion at wrong golf, Mr. Titelist and some of these other golf ball people. You know, watching pros hit wedges into 11 or 12 greens around and there's no par-fives anymore, it's pretty boring to me and you know, they've made the game so much easier for professionals and You know the technology was supposed to be for the benefits of armors and you know this And I know for an absolute fact, you know Jack and I have discussed it numerous occasions USGA just monitor things they've never you know this

They just didn't step up to the plate when they needed to. But, you know, there's billions of dollars flowing in and, you know, credit to the game for still being one of the few that you can walk the fairways with your heroes and play with them in pro-arms, and that sort of thing, we still got that going for us, but it's got, it's a bit smashing grab now, and I'm not thrilled with the, I just don't think it's made a game better. How much got do you play these days? Little as a second help.

You know, once you lose your suppleness, it's difficult to deal with. I'm obviously a few pounds overweight, could do to lose a bit, but you know, we've come through this pandemic, couldn't go out, locked down. Astrid's a wonderful cook, what can I tell you? I'd live right by the golf course here,

which we redid at Brandon Country Club a couple of years ago. And it's a vibrant little club. And I'd play a bit. My grandsons were over from Germany for giants. They are now, they're all scratch players. I played with them out at the concession the other day, but I just just leave ride round and watch them rather than go through the agony of playing myself. It's not pretty. What I do anymore is a good concession. That ball is going to be rolling back to your feet all day.

If you had one round left to play in your life, where would you want your final round of golf to be? That's a toughy. Probably sent under, I don't know. I mean, you know, there's such history there. And it's such a unique unique place, 18th green in the middle of the town. I mean, forget about it. It's it's it's the best. Well, well, thank you so much for spending so much time with us today. Again, I encourage listeners to go check out my writer cup journey. It's available on Amazon as well as through the publisher's Pegasus Elliot

and Mackenzie. I know we shared a lot of fun stories today's a pleasure, Chris Lankshires. Be the right club today. Yes! We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time.

We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time. We're having a great time. I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most.

Better than most. Expect anything different. Expect anything different.