No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 502: Justin Lower
Episode Date: December 1, 2021Justin Lower joins the NLU pod for the first time to chat about his winding path toward getting a PGA Tour card, what he's learned out on tour so far, what he learned after an excruciatingly close cal...l in 2018, a devastating tragedy in 2005, and a ton more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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I
Right-club beat a right club today
That's better than most
Better than most
Better than most
Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the No-Langup podcast solid here got an episode coming up with one of our young hitters
Justin Lauer Justin's got an incredible story
We go into great detail about many many many many many years he spent traveling the world playing professional golf
Hoping to get a shot at the PGA tour or something he earned, this past Cornfairy
Finals and we go through.
How he got there and the many events of his life that helped shape that and a lot of people
know Justin for his story of the tragedy that hit his family when he was just in high school
and he tells us that whole story and kind of bears his soul there which was difficult difficult. I'm sure for him to tell, but we greatly appreciate him being so
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Here's Justin Lauer.
11 years of pro golf before making to the PGA
tour. Any estimation on how many hotel nights, how many flights, rounds, practice rounds,
any of that? Have you thought about any of that? No, I haven't. That's the first, first
question I've been asked like that for sure. I could probably, if you give me a minute
or two, I could probably figure it out. But well, I was good to ask also that the dollars spent on all that stuff too, but maybe
you don't want to think about that one.
It's all right off in the end.
But no, yeah, for sure, it's been a long journey, but happy where I'm at, for sure.
Do you feel like a PGA tour player yet?
You have three starts under your belt as official member.
Do you feel like one yet?
Kind of.
I have just as many Monday qualifying rounds as I do starts as a member, do you feel like one yet? Kind of, I have just as many Monday qualifying rounds
as I do starts as a member.
So a little yes to no, but, hey, I mean,
it's been a long journey, but like I said,
I'm happy, happy where I'm at,
happy for the opportunity that lies ahead for sure.
Well, let's say for listeners that may not be familiar, right?
You, you've in this
fall series, you you were the 50th out of 50 priority coming from the cornferry to I'm going to
talk about how you got there to begin with. But what's the fall been like for you? How do you get into
events? What's it like, you know, with that priority number? What does that mean? And how does that
potentially change over the course of a season? It was all kind of learning experience for me as well,
just being that 50th guy and knowing exactly how many people are in our category, which I'm still not entirely sure of.
But I was number 46 in our category and I believe that was because of Yeager and Bramlett and Mito all being and will obviously zalatorous being outside of our category as well. So I think that's where the 46 number comes from.
And then I actually went through the entire,
like, who's available for each tournament?
And I was number 200 on that list on the priority ranking.
So for those of you who are decent at math,
if there's a field of 156 and I'm 200,
I need 44 people not to play just for me to get into the field.
This fall,'ve out of I
think there were eight or nine official events I played three. I was in Napa. I
got in Bermuda and I got in the RSM at St. Simon's and I have had just as
many like I said Monday qualifier starts as I had a tort as tournament starts I
tried the Monday qualifier for Sanderson, Vegas,
and Houston.
Put up good scores in each of them,
but as Monday qualifiers are, they're never easy.
Especially the ones in the fall
where guys are either going through Q-School at the same time
and playing well, and it's been a grind,
but looking forward to the start of 2022, for sure.
And so there, correct me if I'm wrong, there's a reshuffle here at the end of the fall.
What did you you finished 17 of Bermuda?
What did that do for you as far as reshuffling and what is your future schedule look like?
I moved up from 46 to 27.
Our category got one person smaller with Lucas Herbert winning in Bermuda.
So that did move me up theoretically, one number, but also he moves up to the
Terminal Winner category, so it doesn't really do anything for me. But with the
reshuffle, I did move up to 27, which should get me in the next four full field
events, not counting the tournament champions obviously, but Sony, I should be
good, American Express, as well as Tori, and then Pebble, which I'm really looking forward to all four of those obviously.
Not only are they PJ Torvins, but they're spectacular golf courses as well. So I was going to say that.
Quite a polar opposite from from from your journey. Any polar opposite in terms of what you're able to plan on how to start your year, right?
Absolutely. Yes. For sure.
Well, what's it, you know, what's it like to you and up as a member?
You know, are you, did you feel comfortable out there in the start?
That you were able to make this fall? Do you feel like, you know,
I've got it's a weird way of asking it, but I was going to say,
do you feel like you're supposed to be there? Obviously, you've earned your spot there, but I'm asking from an own internal mindset,
is it feel like you're ready to compete out there? What's this first few few months been like?
No, I definitely feel like I'm ready to compete. I had made four starts as a non-member,
just through Monday qualifying and exemptions and whatnot, and neither of those really felt ready.
I made the cut in one of them, but still
there is definitely a comfort factor there, and I think that's knowing most of the guys. I mean,
a lot of the guys out there I've played with or competed with through the Corn Fairy Tour, and that's where
that comfort factor comes in just knowing them, just on a golf level, a little bit on a personal
level. Some guys a little more hidden in the personal level, but yeah definitely feeling
More and more comfortable the more events I play
Like I put up some good scores obviously had a decent finish in Bermuda was in the
Second last group or third to last group on Sunday, so I was I don't downplay that too much
You were you were in contention to win that golf tournament. I I was yeah. And if it was, hey, if the weather would have been,
I'm not really a bad weather.
Even though growing up in Northeast Ohio,
I've kind of become accustomed to the fair weather
golfer notion for sure.
Yeah, I was somewhat in contention there for sure,
was playing well and had two late bogies that probably cost me
a top 10 getting
in one more start, which would have been my coba, but no, just a good finish for sure.
The biggest check I've made, and it's a lot of positives to pull away from it for sure.
Are you able to separate out, you know, you've led me right there, which was going to go
next, you said, biggest check I've made. Are you able to not think about the money
and just to give listeners an idea,
it's basically 10x the purse that you are used to playing for.
A T17 finish paid you $99,000 in Bermuda.
T17 on the corn fray does not pay $99,000.
There's a lot of things you're playing for.
Re-shuffling, trying to keep your car for next year already
and all of these things, but is money one of those things you're thinking about at that point?
To a point, I mean, the way I've played golf as many, many tour events as I've played, you're always kind of thinking about the money, but there's a point where you stop thinking about it and it just becomes how well you're finishing in the tournament at some point. Obviously, where the game is headed
and all these start-up, not start-up tours,
but these other tours that are coming up,
we're talking about so much money.
Like, obviously, money plays a huge part in what we do,
especially on the PJ tour, even the Corn Fairy tour.
Like, the guys that do well on the Corn Fairy tour,
they may not say they're making a living,
but if they're smart about it,
you can definitely make a not a comfortable living, but a decent living for sure. And obviously,
it gets better when you move up to the PJ tour. Obviously, like I said, money plays a huge factor
in what we do, but it's not the end all be all. Obviously, we love playing golf, we love
playing, we love competing. And, and the end, that's, that's what it comes down to. And fortunately,
the better you do, the more you get paid.
So a little different than other sports.
But yeah, it's, it's definitely a thought for sure.
Well, does anything come to mind regarding, you know, what you maybe
specifically need to get better at just from a few starts out on the PGA tour.
Meaning is there anything different test wise on PGA tour golf courses that's
maybe a little bit different than the corn fairy tour or playing with some of the guys you've played with so far out on the PGA
tours.
Is there anything you came back into the winner and said like, hey, all right, here is
very clearly what I need to get better at.
Let's go do that.
Yeah, just just consistency overall.
The guys you see win on the PGA tour and compete weekend, week out.
They're very good at not only just like every aspect of the game, but
they're good at the little things as well. Like managing time, managing your body, your mind,
stuff like that. So physically wise, I would say just from a golf perspective, I would say
getting a little better at playing on firm conditions. Napa was kind of eye opening for me on
a little better at playing on firm conditions. Napa was kind of eye opening for me
on actually how firm that golf course got,
especially Friday afternoon, and I struggled.
I'll be the first to admit,
I did not play well that day
and didn't really have a great mindset going in.
So on the mental side is just having the right mindset
each round and each tournament
and even breaking that down to each hole and each shot. And just learning, just
learning from guys who have been out there learning ways to manage golf courses and stuff
like that. And obviously experience plays a huge role I've played. I had six years of experience
on the corn fairy tour where I got to know the golf courses and now I'm learning new golf
courses for the same or for the first time. So little things you got to jot down here and there for the next time you're in that situation. Like I said, getting ready to play better
on firmer golf courses, tougher golf courses, my ball striking is always there, but if I can get a
little more consistent off the tee, obviously distance helps. It's probably the quickest way to get
better in this game now and then putting. I feel like I'm a pretty decent putter, but it's very
streaky at time. So back to that consistency word that I use quite a bit, just being a little more
consistent in every aspect of the game, but driving in putter for sure. I'm going to throw something
at you. Some of a theory that's semi-half-bakes, but I've spent what feels like a lifetime now trying
to determine what differentiates a
professional golfer from one of the best professional golfers, right? Because I can play around a golf with you
I can play around with golf with some of the corn fairy guys here in Jacksonville and like watch them hit their great shots and
I could play with Max Holma and know that they're like the great shots don't look dissimilar. They they don't
Yeah, it's you know, you can't just watch and but as a rotimilar. They they don't yet. You know,
you can't just watch and but as a rotella thing too, like you can't go to the driving range and say,
all that player is better than that player, right? Because it kind of all looks the same. But it
seems like the best players, if I may say, whatever they're hitting that really good above average shot,
say eight, nine times out of 10, whereas the next to your guy is only hitting that six,
seven times out of 10.
Does that seem like one of my kind of onto something there
when you talk about consistency
and I don't know if those numbers sound right,
but I'm wondering if you could just kind of speak to,
you know, what you think makes up that difference?
No, I agree with you 100%.
It's like even though you said it's eight or nine out of 10
compared to six or seven out of 10,
over a course of the tournament, over four rounds,
it's only a quarter of a shot per round
when you break it down, but that's literally
what we're trying to, how better we're trying to get.
Like we've all reached a point where we're trying to,
we're trying to find that quarter of a shot here and there.
And that's where strokes gained
is obviously become such a huge part of the game.
And obviously more and more studies are showing
that distance is the biggest way
to gain the most amount of strokes on the field.
And obviously you have your crazy putting days,
your crazy ball striking days where you are absolutely
the best in the world at each of those aspects.
But it all, it comes down to everything really and how much, like how many times you can
really come up with that quarter of a shot where it could be one shot over a whole tournament.
And I've been fortunate enough to play with Patrick
Rogers the last couple months. We played the first two rounds of the Cornferry Tour
Championship together and then we played the final round of Bermuda together where he finished.
I think Solo 4th and was kind of making a run towards the end of the tournament. And I feel like
that's where I learned a lot about myself in tournaments,
but I learn more by watching these guys
come down the stretch.
Like Patrick, he's obviously younger than me,
but he's been on tour for,
this may be his six or seven season on tour now.
The way he went about that day,
like what, the conditions were obviously tough
with the wind and the rain,
and it being very unpredictable.
It seemed like every half hour to every 45 minutes, I guess, some what predictable that I
squall was coming in and all this rain and wind that you can't, like you can be 10 feet from someone
and not hear a word they're saying. But the way he went about that tournament, he was so patient and
he's just, there were sometimes during that round where like,
I may have been a shot up on him for the round and maybe even for the tournament,
but then he hits, we hit different shots to where he picks up that quarter of a shot on me or something like that.
And then it turns into another shot.
Maybe he makes a 40 footer for birdie and I have a five footer for par and I miss that. When in reality,
I was closer to him on the t-shot, but on a par three, but he makes that 40 footer and then I have a
five footer that's left or right and the wind is break and the wind is going left or right as well.
And anything over, I think 20 miles an hour affects putts. So you're hitting a putt that you really have no idea what's what it's really going to do and you try and just put the best stroke on it you can.
But in the same with if I can revert back to Taylor Groot, who just won RSM, I mean the guy's been playing unbelievably unbelievable golf this last calendar year, but I played with him the last round in 2017 when he won in Knoxville on the
Corntrade Tour. Just the way he went about that round that day and that tournament, we were in completely different situations. I was fighting to play in the next event, which was Portland.
I had to make the cut just to get in that event because I had had conditional status that year and I wasn't putting up good results and that I ended up finishing T20 that weekend and ended
up being my best finish of that year and it gave me a lot of confidence going forward but
just watching him going through that round he started I think two or three back and he's like
I'm going to play the best golf I can I'm going to stick my game plan. And if it's good enough coming down the stretch,
I'm gonna win this fucking golf tournament.
Like, that's literally the way he went about it.
And it was so like-
Freeing, or it looks free.
It sounds freed up is what you're describing.
Yes, 100 freed.
And like it inspired me as well.
Like wow, like this is how you get it done. Unfortunately
I haven't been able to get it done on that stage yet I've had my chances but I think that's what
Sep like back to our original question like that's what separates the guys who win from
the guys who don't win the guys that keep their card, you guys don't keep their card and
win. The guys that keep their card, you guys don't keep their card. And like you said, the very good professional golfer to the also good professional golfer, but not quite on that next level yet. So it's
that I feel like that's where I learn the most is just from other guys. Like obviously you learn
from yourself and big opportunities and how you can do better the next time. But if you can
and big opportunities and how you can do better the next time. But if you can, I think for me, for sure,
I learned more watching guys and situations like that, for sure.
Because I feel like we all feel the same pressure
and the same nerves, but it's how you handle them
and how you kind of go from there.
It's, and it seems like something that you can chant.
It's not something you can just channel, right?
You can't just be like, all right,
let's go play Confident Golf.
Like, yeah, just, it just doesn't work that way.
You know, it might work on one week
and then six weeks later, that same approach
just isn't the same thing.
And you said something to about just being like a,
a few minutes ago about being in a better mental state
and a mental, I don't know exactly
what you were referring to there,
but what does that mean to you?
Like, what, how do you, how do you get in a repeatable mental state?
That's something that I struggle with.
It's like, dude, sometimes I'm like,
I got it totally figured out,
and then I got the mental side figured out, I got it.
And in the next tournament,
I am just such a whiny little bitch to myself.
I suffer the same thing.
I mean, there are tournaments where like the BMW
this year for me, the BMW program on the Cornfair Tour.
I was 23 under through three rounds
and like nothing bothered me.
Like I'm playing, like you're playing with two amateurs
of first two rounds and my amateur fortunately,
we won the team event.
So I'd play with them the third round as well.
And nothing bothered me those first three rounds then that last round comes
up and it's just me and another player and it was it's like a different mindset
and it's like how do you separate that mindset from the mindset you were in the
first three days where everything seemed so easy and that's I'm still learning
from that. I think it has to do with all the course stuff, as well as off the course stuff,
and I'm working on that as well.
Be flat out honest.
I have been in therapy since 2019,
just dealing with anxiety,
pressure that I put on myself on the golf course,
off the golf course, social situations,
as well as self-esteem issues that I fight with.
And it's been a rough journey,
but I feel like each day is new,
but each day is one in the same,
because it's all the same situations
that you find yourself in,
whether it's on the golf course and off the golf course.
And I have really tried to work on that,
and it's not easy,
but you just kind of take one day
as it comes and kind of go from there.
Two things in relation to that. One, what triggered you, I guess, to seek out therapy and
two, what if there's a way to sum it up, and I'm sure it's probably pretty complicated, but
sum up what you think some of the biggest takeaways are that you've had from that therapy that you saw out. What originally made me seek it out was probably just wanting to be...
So the one of the big issues I struggle with is,
myself worth does not match my score on the golf course or a finishing
or a golf tournament or a finish on a money list, a points list, anything like that.
That is something I've struggled with,
still struggle with it to this day. And then a takeaway that I've gotten from all this is
anything that you feel coming in, think of it as like a wave on an ocean, that it may come in,
it may feel like it's hurting you, it may feel like it's gonna just be there forever,
but eventually it goes back out.
And then another way of thinking like a stream or a river,
like something bad may come up and be right in front of you,
but that river always keeps going in that bad thing
or bad thought or bad situation,
it always goes away theoretically.
And then something good is always on the horizon.
So a big believer in like things happen for a reason,
both good and bad.
So yeah, just to go back to the first question.
Just I wanted to be happier off the golf course
and happier on the golf course as well.
And I think they're one and the same.
When you're content on the golf course,
you seem to be content off the golf course.
And then both when you have your off the golf course, life figured
out, I feel like being on the golf course is much easier. And it seems to flow a little
more, in my opinion.
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Let's get back to Justin Lauer.
If I may say, and you can speak to this
as someone that has battled Progolf,
as we mentioned for over a decade now,
so much of what you guys go through is stressful,
and there's so much failure along the way. And
failure can be defined any way you want to define it. And you know, a T25 may not be a failure
to you one week. And the next week, that may be a failure. But it is, I guess one question
relation to that, what percentage of tournaments do you feel like you walked away,
feeling like you feeling like you didn't fail? And two, like, does that, did you ever feel like
that taking a toll on you over the years in terms of not just your success on
the course, but it being your way from home, you're maybe not seeing loved ones,
the stress of travel, the uncertainty of what your next month, day, week, year
is going to be like all of that. I mean, that adds up, especially for as long as
you've been at it. Absolutely. Especially my my first two years on the Cornfairy, although they were
three years apart 2014 and 2017. 2014, I was kind of young and naive and I was a lot more positive
than then I became. Like I was guaranteed zero starts, ended up with 13.
I was like, hey, this is great.
Like I'm playing the corn fairy tour, then it was the web.com.
I felt just so much more confidence about just every part of my game, even though I wasn't
really playing well.
And then 2017, I was in the same category.
Like zero guaranteed, termed it into 13 through Monday qualifying and an exemption here or there,
but I handled it differently both times,
like not knowing where the next start was
and how that turned into having to go to a Monday
qualifier when I've never seen the golf course
and because I had made the cut,
but couldn't get there in time in the previous,
like the previous week. And it just, it was so frustrating. And then I finally get these
guaranteed starts. But then I'm actually playing full seasons and not, not knowing some
of the golf courses, not knowing some of the travel, especially the international travel
on the corn fairy tour. It can be not easy. There's language barriers.
There's monetary issues, like exchange rates, stuff like that.
And then just like going back to that comfort factor,
like not feeling comfortable and not knowing what's next
is a very uneasy feeling at times.
And I feel like even though I had four years of guaranteed
starts on the corn fairy tour going back to the PJ tour, I feel like I'm almost
back in that category where not knowing what's next really, even though I do
kind of know what's next and it's just a very hard feeling to deal with
sometimes and it gets very overwhelming and you get stressed out and then if you
start thinking about everything
that goes into it, the travel, the time away from home,
everything like that, it can be very, very overwhelming
and it can be very challenging at times.
But the thing I've learned and that I'm still learning
is that you can get over it, just take a deep breath,
sleep on it if you have to.
Like it all works itself out.
And like whether you think you're the only one struggling
like this, like other people are at the same time.
And that's, you don't have to constantly tell yourself that
because you want to have fun what you're doing
and whatnot, you don't want to think of the struggles
all the time.
But if you can just kind of wake up and just kind of take
the challenge of the day on and be happy with where you're at
I think you're
You're good to go in my opinion
Well, I feel like I hear this from from pro golfers too is like you know
Even Justin Thomas talked about this on the podcast this week this this quarter. He was saying
You know like look at my job like I travel the world and play the best golf courses yet like I wasn't in a good
Mental place and like that like that effect can because a lot of people listen to this might say,
like, oh, boohoo, like you chose this career
and you play golf every day and all that,
like I don't feel bad for you.
Like that's what I hear.
I read that online at times,
but like that can almost double down on you,
I feel like we're in terms of why am I pissy,
why am I down today?
Like look at what I get to do for a living
and it like almost has a double effect more than it
like brings you back to reality
if you experience that at all.
So 100% and that's that like trust me,
I'm not complaining about my job at all.
It's an unbelievable job.
And I've had this conversation with guys
like on the PGA tour, like it's amazing.
Some stuff the tour does is well thought out and amazing
and it makes 100% sense. Other things they do kind of leaves a scratching our head from time to time.
But it's still amazing and it beats any other job in the world in my opinion. The part that I
struggle with is the social media part. You see all these people that think they know everything,
like, oh, your sponsors pay for all your travel.
No, that couldn't be like.
As a sponsor of yours, we do not pay for your travel.
Like, it couldn't be further from the truth.
Like, we pay for all of our travel.
We, some of us organize all of our travel.
I organize mine.
Some guys use their agents and agencies to do that.
I like having the control of knowing
what I have in front of me when it comes to travel.
Like, and you read these people online
that have no idea what they're talking about
and no idea how it works.
And that's where it gets really frustrating.
But you have to, I've read some PGA tour players say
if you have social media accounts
and you have a tweet or something
written out, think before you push tweet, like, do I really need to send this? Do I
really need to put myself through this, or potential argument that will come up? Do I
really need to put myself through this? Is it worth the time? Is it worth the effort?
Is it worth the agony over it? Probably not. So just look at it, laugh at it if you can. Maybe get a
little mad at it, screenshot it, send it to one of your buddies like look at this
idiot, like he thinks we get everything paid for. Like yeah we try we get to play
free golf at a lot of places, but we're away from our loved ones a lot. I'm away
from my wife a lot. I'm away from my dog a lot who I love.
I'm away from my family, my home.
It's very tough at times, but I will say it's
one of the coolest jobs on the planet.
Well, I was gonna say, you,
a good rule of thumb that I've always felt a bit by.
It's just never tweet.
Like there's just never,
like, you know, how many times
you're in a different position.
I know, but I'm going to have
it. I'm like, why did I why did I do this? I could have been sitting around watching TV,
hanging out, and I just had to do it. Now I'm checking my replies, all that. So what,
you said a couple things that the tour does there that leave you scratching your head. What,
what are some examples of that? Oh, yeah, I don't want to let's get you in trouble. Let's do it. Yeah
I hope I don't get a
PR call after this, but no, it's just like now that I'm thinking of it. I can't really think of anything
But some some stuff makes perfect sense like it could be as simple as the food and player dining
Like 99 programs. They're the coolest thing ever. I think they're they benefit us. They benefit
pro they they benefit caddies. They benefit the actual amps playing in the program. For listeners.
Take that's for a program day. They play nine holes with one pro. Swap over to the other side.
Play nine holes with another. Your guys energy levels higher. You get the full experience of playing
with someone in nine holes. You don't need to play all 18 and
Players love it. And yeah, I love those two and then you get two
You get like the amps get two pros. Yeah, how many how many guys can how many everyday golfers can say hey
I played with two professionals in one day now on the opposite end of that. Let's say
You are on the back it. Let's say you were filling in for a pro
at let's say 3. on the back, let's say you were filling in for a pro at, let's say 3.45 pm in Springfield, Missouri on the corn
ferry tour where it's 90 degrees and 90% humidity.
And that nine holes takes three hours, let's say.
So 3.45, you're 6.45 before you're even in your car, ready to go back to your hotel or your private housing wherever.
And let's say you have a 7am t time the next day. Like that is the one thing. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Like they obviously have control of the t times. Can we just fix this issue to where they're in the late early or late early wave and you get a chance to rest like we got to play the program.
Like again, I'm not complaining about my job, but it's just little things like that.
That seems minor, but Wednesday afternoons at Tor events, it shut down.
Like people get home, get rested. Like you got four more days of this.
That it's kind of a go to thing.
Like whoever you see on the range at 430 or 5 on a Wednesday, like, don't put your money
on that guy.
Like he's looking for something right now.
You should be done with your prep by then.
For sure.
So I see what you're getting at there.
That's innocent enough.
I don't think you'll get in trouble for that one.
So I could see, I could see your wheels turning a couple steps ahead.
Yeah.
Well, let's talk about your path path to getting to to the PGA
tour. And I don't know where that where that starts for you. I'm sure there's a million different
ways we can go with them. Let's start with your closest calls. You've been very close to you've
been in the moment. You've been extremely, extremely close, especially speaking of 2018. You had an
eight foot birdie putt in the last hole of the Cornferry tour championship to secure your PGA tour
card. Let's go through some of that and we'll get to building up to the moment where you're also
faced with that scenario, which we know how it ends.
But going back to that time, what was that like to be a shot out?
And I enjoyed the story you've told Kevin Price to about requesting that video from him
as well as another one that you requested from him.
Yeah, so 2018 was my first year of having guaranteed starts on the corn
ferry tour. I had finally made it to finals of Q school for the third time and finished.
Then it was top 45 now it's top 40, which we'll go back to that's a whole another story for sure.
But ended up finishing 60 second on the regular season
money list had one top 10, which was a solo third and Louisiana.
And ended up finishing, like I said, 60 second, go into the finals,
web.com finals at the time, miss the cut by a shot in Columbus,
which is an event that I love just being from Ohio a shot in Columbus, which is an event that I love, just being from Ohio,
being in Columbus.
Just anytime I get to play in Ohio,
it's a fun feeling.
You being from Ohio, I can,
I'm sure you share that same thing.
And then we had the Cleveland event the next week.
Actually, I think we had a week off.
Either way, made the cut in Cleveland.
Got to throw out a first pitch at Indian's game,
childhood dream of mine. It was in Cleveland. It's got to throw out a first pitch at Indian's game, childhood dream of mine.
It's a strike.
It borderline.
I have the video.
So no.
Someone, someone might have sent it way over the fence, but that's again, another story.
But no, I made the cut there, finished 30 seconds, then I think we had a week off, and
I finished ninth and Boise, which put me in a spot that
I've really never been in, a spot to really get a PGA tour card.
I was 26th entering the tour championship that week in Atlantic Beach, shots.
I think eight under the first two days, made the cut comfortably.
Shot six under the third round, played really well coming down the stretch.
I think I shot four under on the back nine.
Like I said, a position I've never really been in.
And I'm playing with two guys at day,
Adam Svensson and Adam Shank,
who have their cars locked up.
They both got them locked up in the regular season.
It's just kind of all on me.
Cameras weren't really around us all day.
Got off to a decent start, was under par early.
Something that a lot of people don't know is I think it's the fifth or
sixth hole. It's the first of back-to-back par 5s there. I was in the middle of the fairway, had like
235 pin and hit a three iron that was right at it and it hits a sprinkler head and goes over the
green and all of a sudden I'm a foot away from being out of bounds.
And now I'm like struggling to make par on this part 5 when the ball is in the air
and my second shot, like I'm thinking possible, evil, definite, birdie.
Like if I walk off with par I'm going to be not discouraged by it, but like not too happy
with it at the same time.
And that's when it starts to kind of like, okay, like this is real, like this is happening.
Haven't looked at a lot of leaderboards, but I know it's playing easy and whatnot.
So go through the whole back nine.
I think I'm one under for the day.
Haven't really made any birdies.
I get to the 17th hole.
And I just happen to glance at a leaderboard and I see him projected 26
So I'm like, okay, I need I know I need something
So the 17th hole is a kind of a risk-gourd par four. It's kind of short. Where the pin is at?
I don't think it's smart to hit driver
Hit five iron off T and I hit a 60 degree from like 83 yards to like two feet.
So make birdie and I'm like, okay, that birdie definitely helped.
One more would probably seal it for sure.
18 is a reachable par five.
It's probably 530 yards.
I hit a decent drive down the left side of the fairway and I've got, it was like 232
pin.
I think it was like 216 cover on the bunker or something
like that and I'm aiming right edge of the green trying to draw one in there and I hit it perfect
it's just not drawing a hair and I'm like kind of looking at it trying to edge it more and more
toward the pin and I see it kind of kick hard and it looking at the coverage afterward. It kicked off this
kind of back edge of a bunker and it ended up going up, back up toward the grandstand and got
relief from the grandstand and kind of had kind of a ticklish chip slash pit shot down this hill
that if it got away from me it could get kind of ugly. There's water but right behind the pin.
So like if I if I gas this chip a little bit, it could get away from me. And I hit what I thought
was a decent shot to about eight feet, put it kind of below the hole. So how to
had a decent look and read it from every angle and still to this day, I thought
it was going in after I hit it, may have just underredded a hair, it leaped out on the low side
and ended up missing it by a shot.
It came down to less than,
I think it was like $490 was the difference.
And I had people calling me like,
I will gladly pay that difference
if it means you get on getting on the tour,
is that how it worked?
No, that's not how it works.
Come on.
Like, yeah, I ended up finishing 26 and missed the PJ tour card by a shot. Was it works? No, that's not how it works. Come up like. Yeah, I ended up finishing 26. This is the PJ tour card by a shot.
Was it devastating? Absolutely. Was it a blessing in the skies?
Probably. I really don't think I would have been ready for a full season.
I may have gotten off to a good start, but because I was playing well at the time,
but I probably was not ready for a full season on the PJ tour after just having
one full season on the corn fairy tour. You never know in that situation, but then yeah, I did ask
Kevin for the video of me missing the putt, and this goes back to the whole therapy thing. I thought
that would be motivating for me, like looking at that and watching that putt over and over,
but it kind of had a negative effect on me. And that's when I reverted back to another video he sent me.
I can't remember if I asked him for that or if he just sent it to me, but he was there that December
in 2017 before all this on my last whole at Q school where I needed a birdie just to get guaranteed starts and I hit
One of the best drives I've ever hit and I hit a gap wedge to about
12 feet and ended up making a putt to get guaranteed starts finally and I've learned that watching that and watching the positive vibes from that is a lot more beneficial than watching
The putt where I missed and I will learn the hard way.
I would have never thought that.
That's crazy.
Yeah, who knew?
But I've always kind of been like that, kind of chip
on your shoulder type.
Like, yeah, I'm never going to let this happen to me again.
And golf, when it's as hard as it is,
it's definitely more beneficial to focus on the positive.
Yeah, 2019 happened.
Yeah, then COVID happened. And I think I
think I may have gotten my card had there been promotions to the tour that year. Obviously, we had a
mega season, I think 46 events. I think I played 40 of them, which is insane. Yeah, over two years,
I mean, it's it's it's crazy to think of. And it was just so crazy, like this past year, watching guys play so well,
and struggle to move up, and guys not playing well, and struggle to move down,
because there was such a big dispersion in the points, and it was such a grind,
and came up again, came up short again, and the regular season definitely had a chance
coming down the stretch. Had I played better in some of the regular season, definitely had a chance coming down the stretch. Had I played
better in some of the final events, probably didn't handle it the best, especially in Omaha, but
new, my game was in a good place, maybe not trending, but definitely in a good place. And then
mentally, I was in a good place as well. And the script was a little bit different this past
summer, for sure. So then, so take us there we get into to cord fairy finals
You've you've get yourself into position. What was what what did you need that last tournament?
And take us through playing that that back and I and especially that last hole I finished
like 33rd and Boise with two really good rounds and two pretty portarounds and then
like 51st and 51st or 46 something
like that in Columbus which just not what you need but I was I was in 40th on the final's
rankings going into the torch championship. So I needed a good a good week. It's not like
I could just slide by with like a t 30 or t T40 and get in my car. I still needed a good week.
It felt good about it.
Played solid the first two rounds,
back to a head scratch around the PJ tour.
So we played it down the first two days
and there was a lot of complaining from everyone
why we were playing it down.
Hitting a mud ball with 10 to 15 mile in our wins
is never the funnest thing in golf,
especially when you need good
results to happen.
So managing my patience as well as my game, those first two days was huge, and then I played
well the third round to get myself in position, and then the last round.
I knew I was close, because obviously I had to do some interviews after the third
round. So I specifically asked them, I was like, if you can let it happen, like do not let
me know where I stand. Like if I can, I'd like to not see any projections. I'd like to
not see any leader board, like I hadn't looked at a leader board that week. I didn't know
where I was in the tournament. I knew I was close based on my time of T-time or timeframe.
And obviously doing the interviews.
How hard is that to avoid all that?
Oh, it's even if you're trying.
I don't know if you, that seems like harder
than actually making it.
Is there standard bears?
There's leaderboards?
Yeah, standard bears are not that bad
because they just tell you whether it's
Whether you're under par or over par basically the leaderboards are probably the hardest part
I do feel like they're strategically placed
And their blue blue is very inviting and they're big. They're electronic. They're bright. So it's
You see them. It's the it's
The hardest thing to do is when you're lining up a putt and it's in your field
of vision and you're looking at it and you're like, okay, you have a 10 footer for birdie
here, you need to focus on this. You do not need to look at that leaderboard right now.
This is something that I go through. I know I can't be the only one. And then looking at
the app is the hardest part. Even though the PGA tour app isn't always the best, it is really our
only way to get up-to-date live action, especially on the Corn Ferry Tour. There was the hardest
part not looking at that as well, because it has a projection leaderboard there, it has an actual
leaderboard, so it has everything at your disposal. So it takes a lot of self-discipline to not do it.
it has everything at your disposal. So it takes a lot of self-discipline to not do it.
I locked the app on my phone that week.
I was not allowed to look at it.
I thought I did a pretty good job of all that.
But going into that last round, I didn't get off to a great start.
I was, I think I was too over at one point.
Not hit, I hit some good shots, but I hit some very bad shots as well and shorts
sided myself which is something I'd really worked on just from a management side of golf
just really taking my course management and course discipline to another level. I used
an app to try and help me with that in a system and I do feel like it helped. And then that back nine I knew like okay like
you've been in the situation before you're definitely a more confident golfer, you're a better golfer
just give it your all this back nine and look if you if you shoot through your four under
and you can be happy with it and I told myself like going after that round like
if I can give it my all and be happy regardless of the outcome I can live with it. I told myself like going after that round like if I can give it my all and be
happy regardless of the outcome I can live with it. I hit a good drive on the 10th hole which is a
part five which a good t-shot can set you up on that hole, made birdie on that hole, made birdie
on the 12th hole which they made drivable which I heard some guys who were also in contention for a card laid up on that hole and struggled. So that was at was it a
key moment maybe maybe not and I hit some really good shots coming down the stretch. I hit a
five-hundred to like ten feet on the 14th hole which is one of the hardest holes in the course
and but I knew like something was up. The cameras were on us literally from from 12 to 18, they were on us every single shot.
And especially me, you know, I'm like, like trying to like tell myself,
okay, saw Hath is playing very well.
He could be in contention, even though we had a bad hole here and there.
So maybe they're watching him.
I'm like, no, they're, it's like that angel in devil.
Like, no, they're watching you, man.
Like you need to focus here.
Like something's happening.
Like, and then on the 18th hole, at 18th hole,
at Victorian Asheville is, it's one of the most
intimidating holes in golf, I think.
If I can set the scene for you, it's, it's like 440.
You can chew off some of it if you want, but there is nothing,
but the biggest lake you've ever seen to the right. And left, there's not not the greatest stuff either. There's two bunkers over there,
tall grass, and I'm aiming at one of these fairway bunkers, and I'm telling myself just to hit the
hardest cut that I can off these two bunkers, and I hit it and it felt good, and I look up, and it's
just going straight left. It's not cutting at all. And I'm like, oh, there's nothing but
disaster over there. And I see a bounce and it lands kind of on a slope that is
sloped back toward the fairway and it kind of kicks up. And I'm on the right side of the
cart path, which is very beneficial. Because if I was on the left side, I probably wouldn't have been
able to cross the path. And I would have had to drop in very long grass, which would have made my up and down much harder.
So I was able to take a drop from the cart path, dropped it and what I thought was kind of a flyer lie.
say it was like 163 front 182 pin or something like that. So I'm trying to hit something that lands right on the front edge
of the green or around the front edge.
It's your adrenaline going nuts at this point.
I mean, kind of.
I'm oddly calm, and I think it's because I didn't know where I stood.
So there's plenty of theories on that.
Like, do you need to know?
Do you not need to know?
I've done both.
Both have worked when it's
whether it's coming down like on the cut line and you know you need a birdie. Like, it felt different.
I felt like oddly calm and I think it was evident on the pitch shot that I hit to get to the pitch shot.
The A-dion came out dead, but it came out in like a perfect spot. On a slight downhill lie, which kind of helped, which the grass was down grain, which meant I didn't really have much resistance going through
on the shot. And on a 30-yard pit shot, you don't really want it to be into the grain under any
circumstance, especially when it's a little wet. And I hit probably the coolest pit shot I've ever
hit in my life, something I practice a lot, but it's cool when you do it under the gun and
I've ever hit in my life. Something I practice a lot, but it's cool when you do it under the gun and
just hit a nipped 30 yard shot that landed
probably 21 or 22 yards and skipped and took the perfect check that you need and
stopped about foot and a half short of the pin. Do you have any idea how madding it is to fall this from the app by the way because all we get it no T-shot too rough see like I would follow in every single shot at this point
Just like you're refreshing refreshing refreshing and yeah, gosh, and then yeah, we get the message that he did it
And you're standing over the foot and a half putt. I mean at this point. Do you know what it's for? I get if the cameras
No, I still don't know. So are you still didn't know? It's I just told myself like,
it's a one and a half footer,
go through your whole routine, look at it.
And a bunch of my friends,
so my part of my putting routine is I take
two or three practice strokes,
and then when I move in,
I give my like,
part face a swipe.
And everyone's like, oh, he's got it.
He did the swipe, right? Like I had multiple people tell me like, pyrophase of swipe. And everyone's like, oh, he's got it. He did the swipe, right?
Like, I had multiple people tell me like,
I knew you were gonna make it when you did the swipe.
That meant you were in your routine and everything.
And I was oddly calm over the putt.
I wish my whoop hadn't have died that morning
and I forgot, I forgot to charge it.
So I sadly have no heart rate data from that round
ended up making it. Still didn't know't know like my wife created me on 18 didn't
know. Cameras were in my face. They they watching the coverage like they knew
right away based on projections and everything. But even when I went up and
signed my card, I was like I look Darren styles was in there and he he has
seen me. He was in there 2018 when I miss by shot. He's been in there and he he has seen me he was in there 2018 when I missed by shot. He's been
in there during the playoff loss for me. He knew what it meant for me and he's he's been there.
He's I think he's won five times on the Corn Ferry Tour, spent multiple years on the PGA Tour. So he knows
what it's like and when he put it in and put the projections up, he kind of gave me kind of one of those like, right smiles and it was, I kind of knew then.
And just the reception that I got on 18,
I kind of had a feeling and then I kind of walked down
the stairs and like my caddy was waiting for me
and some other players were waiting for me
and they were, they were all double fisting
and I'm like, God, this is a lot of celebrating.
And I'm like, what's that? And they're like, it'sing and I'm like, God, this is a lot of celebrating. And I'm like,
what like what's that? And they're like, it's official. And I'm like, oh shit. So then the beer
shower came and it was, it was one of the coolest, just to have the, to have other players and
other peers that you work with and compete with, to see them happy for you is one of the coolest
most gratifying feelings in the world.
And I have a video of the the beer shower.
That video is probably more satisfying than, and then like other players like,
sought me out after the round to come give me a hug and give me a high five and just congratulate me.
And that was one of the coolest feelings for sure.
Yeah, gosh, man.
The dream come true.
Like here, we're just kind of exploring that that journey over an hour,
but you, you lived it for, you know, going back many, many, many, many years
before you're even a professional golfer.
It's just, uh, it's incredible.
How were you, you know, in your post run interview, your, your mind at the time,
you're extremely emotional, but you, you went immediately to the guy that
finished 26, you know, Taylor Montgomery, with your
experience you had as that guy before that was kind of the first thing you were thinking of and you were that was that was who your message was to one of you tell us about that a little bit
Yeah, I've been in that position Taylor
Unfortunately, he he had a double win he finished
26 the regular season and 26 in the finals.
Like that is, I only fortunately,
I only had it happen to me once in a season.
He had it happen twice.
The kid is a heck of a player.
He's one of the best putters I've ever seen.
He's gonna be fine, but I just wanted to know
that I was thinking of him in that moment.
If I can revert back to a podcast that you guys did
with Steve Alcinton, which is one of my favorite ones
that you guys ever did.
When he won, I think it was at the 95 PTA.
Reviewer against Montgomery.
He wrote Collin a letter and like, like obviously like with media and everything,
it's a lot different now.
I just wanted Taylor to know that I was thinking of them in that situation because I know how
agonizing and difficult that finishing that position is.
So I just wanted to let him know that I was thinking of them.
Well, well, some of them we kind of jumped right into your,
your PGA tour career here in Cornfairy Tour and professional golf career
and didn't really do much in terms of background, but one I'm wondering,
how many NAA golfers are there on the PGA tour?
I think I'm the only one.
It's not a lot.
I do know there was a guy from Oklahoma's, he plays on the corn fairy tour and blanking on his name.
Oh, Tyrone Van Aspiegan.
He played at Oklahoma City who we competed against every year.
Oklahoma City is in any I golf powerhouse.
Like they're unbelievable.
We could never beat him, just sheer depth wise.
My junior year at Nationals,
which was our best chance to win a national championship,
they're five men turned in a 72,
and our five men turned in not a 72.
Like at that point, we knew we were beat,
but that's a whole, whole another rapid hold
to go down into, but I do believe I am the only NAI in one.
For the listeners, you went to Malone University there in in Canton, Ohio, but one thing that we haven't talked about
that you've talked about a lot over the years and is I imagine never a fun topic to discuss,
but your life changed a lot in the spring of 2005. We've done a video where you we profiled
that story a few years ago, but for those that don't know that story, what happened to you and your family on that fateful day?
Yeah, it was March 26, 2005. It's a date that it sticks with me forever. So it started off just
as a normal day. It was a warm spring day in Ohio. It probably got up to 60 or 65 degrees. So
golf courses are packed. People are out of hibernation from the winter.
A lot of people wanting to catch up on the golf game. And my dad dropped me off the
golf course and he said, I'd pick you up later, like close to sunset or so. That was
the last time I saw him and my younger brother around. I want say 4.45 to 5 o'clock somewhere in
there they were on their way to come pick me up from the golf course on probably
a nine no not even nine mile eight mile journey from my grandpa's house in
Marshallville Ohio to lions and golf course and cannot falton my dad who was
intoxicated at the time blacked out behind the wheel and lost control of the vehicle
and the car had gone across a lane and hit a ditch and flipped up and hit a telephone pole and landed
on the top of the car and killing my brother instantly and my dad shortly after.
And I was still at the golf course when this happened.
I had a cell phone for emergency use only.
Mom called me multiple times.
She's like, where are you at?
I'm like, I'm still at the golf course.
Dad hasn't picked me up.
And she knew, I don't know if that's the mother's intuition
or not, but she knew from the time that I was still at the
golf course that something was wrong.
She hadn't heard from my dad in what was still the golf course that something was wrong.
She hadn't heard from my dad in what was becoming a longer and longer period of time.
We ended up, she came and picked me up from the golf course and we went home, which was
only a 10 minute ride from the golf course to see if maybe he forgot and he wasn't there.
And then we went back to the golf course to maybe see if he was running late and that maybe
his cell phone had died or something like that.
This is in the age of flip phones and kind of the brick small phones and whatnot.
So it's a reception isn't great at times.
So maybe we thought his cell phone had died or maybe we did or stepped him or something
like that.
And we get to the golf course and the owner is there.
Andy Alliance, he's like, no one has been here since you guys left and
Then we go back home and my mom receives a phone call
or no, sorry she makes a phone call to the American Legion in
Marshaville, Ohio, which was the last place my dad was and
They said that they had heard of a car wreck on Marshaville road
Which is the road that leads to Kennell Holt and from Marshville, that it was a single car accident.
My mom knew instantly that it was my dad and brother, and
she's like, getting the car, we're going, we drove up on the scene,
there were ambulance there, there were cops there. It was basically dusk at this point, like,
Sun was going down, we had to convince a bystander who was directing traffic
for the police to let us go through
because he told, or the police told him not to let anyone
through and we're like, look, we know those people
who they are, are family.
Yeah, to see the car and the ambulance and everything,
it's image that is burned in my mind.
car and the ambulance and everything, it's image that is burned in my mind.
Permanently, it's something I deal with from time to time.
I really don't think I got over the trauma of it, which is something I
probably deal with in my personal life today and something I struggle with from time to time, but it was a horrible like next like four or five hours
and like that night, like just coming home
and like people being at our house,
like loved ones being at our house there to comfort us,
but like it was just like,
I remember trying to go to sleep that night
and I'm like, there's like, I can't,
like I just don't know what else to say.
And it changed my life completely.
Golf was my safe haven,
going to the driving range and going to the golf course
became therapeutic for me,
like just going and hitting ball,
not even thinking of like swing mechanics
or anything like that or results,
just like the mere motion of just hitting golf balls.
Like it was just something that really helped
me through it. Like I suffered socially from it, just like kind of like a not like a whiny, but like
like I can't believe this happened to me. I have to I have to grow up quicker than everyone else and
it was just it was very difficult for me to fathom. And my grades suffered, my golf game didn't suffer.
I progressed probably even more because I used it as motivation
just playing for my dad and my brother.
My dad was someone who took me to golf tournaments
and he was always there for me.
And someone to talk to after golf tournaments
before golf tournaments.
And I didn't have that anymore. Like I said, I've always just kind of chip on my shoulder type and I used it as motivation for sure.
I never got the looks that I thought I would get.
I won states individually in my senior year.
In high school, I thought I was plenty good enough to play in the division one level,
but never got the looks because of probably my grades because I suffered.
And honestly, I'll be honest with her.
I did the bare minimum to pass,
to make sure I was eligible.
I didn't want to do anything else other than golf
and hang out with my friends who were amazing in this time,
ended up at Malone University and Coach Ken Highland,
who is one of the most influential people
I've ever met in my life,
still to this day, he gave me an opportunity to play an opportunity to go to college.
Yeah, graduated in four years and I worked really hard on my golf game, really hard to graduate
with a degree, with a major and a minor as well, and the rest is kind of history, I guess.
Yeah, that answers more. All my questions and more, I think,
related to that. I appreciate you sharing that. No matter how many years roll by, I can't be
any easier to discuss and relive. But it is a part of your story now. You've talked about
some of the therapy you've done and what that has done to you on and off course and
that's that's a huge huge part of your story and something
no one should ever have to go through but with with that in
mind as we as we turn towards you know the 20 into the new
the new year do you have specific goals do you have specific
goals that you're ready to share internal external or you know
do you set annual goals? What's that look like?
I do set annual goals.
One of them is to just,
there are some of them are vague, some of them are very specific. Like one is to make the FedEx Cup playoff just finish them top on 25.
Another is to win, obviously, but another is to just improve daily learn as much as I can.
One of my goals is to become a little more like outgoing when it becomes when it comes to
talking to other players like especially guys who have been out there a while.
Luckily I know more of them now, but just wanting to talk with them more and learn as much as I can.
Something I share with people, like I love this game and I want to see how good I can get.
Like I said it in my interview after the last round of the Torch Championship.
Like I don't think this is it. There are multiple guys that get to the PGA tour
and kind of fizzle out and that's it.
I don't want to be that person.
I want to work harder and improve.
And I want to see how good I can get on a professional level
and how good I can get at the game of golf
and how I want to show that I can compete
and really belong with the best in the world.
Obviously, like I'm a little behind in that category. Like I always think of like me and Rory's
like careers, like we're the same age basically, but we have had completely different career. Give it a try. It's free. Yeah.
Like it's just, you had the same amount of master titles.
That's, that's low.
That's, that's low.
Like I know, no, I know for sure.
But like I'm a huge, huge fan of him.
Like, and I've, I've looked up to them,
even though we're the same age
and some of them, I'm even older than them.
Like I've looked up to like the way they go about the game and I just I I want to see how good I can get. I bought
a track man whether or not that'll help. I do think it's helped already. I bought it before Bermuda
so that I think paid for itself so I'm learning there. I just think it gives I think it gives
information that is invaluable to a professional golfer.
So I'm taking steps to really trying to see how good I can get one of my things.
It comes from that self-esteem issue that I've talked about is seeking players out and
or other players out and seem like knowing that if I have the freedom to pick their mind,
like, what can I learn from them and how good can I actually get and if I can make a long career of being on the PJ tour?
Great
I just want to really see how good I can get at a certain level doesn't Bermuda
Check a lot of those boxes in terms of like you you didn't win Bermuda
You were there though in in contention so you've never been in contention on the PGA tour prior to that.
But yet you have done that now. Does that help you roll forward with like, well, now I know that there has to be something back there for all the years that you play like wondering like, hey, can I actually compete with the at the highest level for this like a PGA tour golf tournament. Now that you've done that just the one time.
a PGA tour golf tournament. Now that you've done that just the one time,
doesn't that get rid of some doubt in terms of whether or not,
it makes it, if you say I wanna win this next year,
that makes that so much less outrageous of a statement, right?
Oh, for sure, I took a lot away from that event.
And like one of the things I may have to get over
is being humble.
Like you said it earlier, like don't be,
don't downplay that. Like, I it earlier, like don't be, don't downplay that.
Like, I was there, like I was,
but that's part of like just who I am.
I'm very humble.
I don't like talking about myself.
I don't like talking about what I've done.
I've done a lot, but at the same time,
I really haven't done a whole lot compared to others.
And that's another thing I'm very guilty of.
I compare myself to others career-wise,
when-wise, finish-wise.
And it's something I have to get over at times.
Sometimes, the best you can do in a week is a T-17.
Other times, the worst you can do is a T-17.
If we're getting into a golf perspective,
it's taking advantage of those weeks here and there.
And one of the things that I do is on this podcast and other podcasts as well,
I listen to the ones with other players more than I listen to the recaps that you guys do.
And it's because I want to learn as much as I can.
Like the ones with max that you guys have done, the ones with
Maverick that you guys have done, I've learned probably more from those than I can from other people.
I feel like it's really helped me and it's like, even though I know I can do it, I just
really want to see how good can I actually get?
That's a rotella thing too, that was a light bulb moment for me when he said, you know,
if you go into just like a particular round of golf and are expecting to shoot say 72,
when you get to four under, you're going to be very uncomfortable. If you go into just like a particular round of golf and are expecting to shoot say 72,
when you get to four under, you're going to be very uncomfortable. Because your mind is not letting
you realize, you're on the good end of the curve and your mind knows that down there. Whereas,
if you go out and say, I'm shooting seven under a day, when you get to four under, your mind sets
three more birdies instead of like, let's steer it into the house
and maybe we'll get even better than I wanted.
And that I think can, you talked about being humble there.
I think that it's a hard thing for your mind to channel
in terms of wanting to be humble and, you know,
and talking to people and whatnot,
like internally you have to just tell yourself,
like, I am that dude, like I am that dude,
I am that good.
And separating the two out, because it can be difficult, because your mind isn't
maybe as able to separate out the two things.
I don't know if Brotel could explain this a lot better than I can.
But that's kind of where I'm at in terms of like having self belief is
extremely, extremely, extremely important.
No, for sure.
Like you talk about or you hear what Brooks says about it, like the mindset that
he had, where it was just to make the cut.
And then he, then once he was able to flip that mindset to winning, is when he actually
started winning more and more.
And you look at the success he's had, especially in the majors, the way he obviously breaks
down fields in the majors is a little different.
That's the mindset that you have to be in.
And that is the hardest mindset to get
in, I think, because like you said, like way earlier in this episode, it's very hard to walk away
from a golf tournament when there's only one winner and not think that you're quote unquote a failure.
Like, yeah, you did fail not to win, but it may be like a solo second or a solo third or a top 10 even
could be your best finish ever. And that's something that's where you have to take the positive
and be like, okay, I'm going to do that the next week. And then that solo, that top 10 that you
are wanting, like, okay, I'm trying for a top five this week. I'm trying to win this week. And
that's where like you have to keep building on that. And that's where obviously experience helps with that. So getting in more events and getting
in more situations like that helps more and more. But um, it's ever evolving. It's never
yet, you know, it's, yeah, there's not a cheat sheet to it. You can convince yourself
you're going to win. But how does that help you if you actually end up on the cut line,
right? Are you? How does that prevent you from getting down on yourself
and you know, wondering what the heck,
why the heck you're down there and all that stuff.
It's, it's, it's so complicated.
But we're gonna get you out of here on the, on the biggest,
maybe the toughest question I've got to ask you.
You list major league as one of your favorite movies,
but I need your review of Major League 2
because it was one of the few VHSs.
I had, there was the VHS that stayed in the VCR as a kid.
And I've seen it maybe a hundred times.
But I need to hear you receive major league too.
It's not as good as the first one.
Oh, damn it.
It's not love too.
Only because I've seen it so many times.
But I know it's good, but it's just not.
The first one is just the quotes and the ever,
it's just such a classic and just being even though
it wasn't really even filmed in Cleveland I think it was most of it was filmed in Milwaukee just
just being that it's the Indians and everything and the lovable losers and all that like it's just
I don't know it just makes it more and more fun and how like the owners store or the owners plan backfires
on her and everything and it's just it just makes it that much better. I need to
rewatch that as an adult. Well, Justin, we're glad to finally have you on man.
It's been a pleasure following your journey over the years and rooting for you
and we are so thrilled for the success you've had and are going to continue to
have and thank you for I've been dragging my feet having you on and that's my fault but thank you so much for
coming on and sharing your story and perspective on things.
Great. They appreciate it. I'm sure listeners appreciate and we'll be rooting for you
in the coming year. No worries. Thanks, so thanks for everything you guys do as a
fan of golf you guys are very good. We're not we're not making you
obligated to say that but thank you we appreciate that so cheers bad take care
Yeah, see it
That's better than most
That is better than most. Better than most.