No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 507: Holiday Medley, Part I

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

It's time for the annual holiday medley! Part I contains highlights from the first half of the year, including Mike Whan, Jordan Spieth, Pernilla Lindberg, Madelene Sagstrom, Kevin Na, Hunter Mahan, Chip Beck, Mark O'Meara, and many others. Stay tuned for Part II.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different! Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to a special holiday medley edition of the No-Lang-Up podcast.

We're going to do this annual recap that we do in two parts, the first half, part one that you're listening to today. Episodes from the first half of the year up through the end of June. Been an incredible year. We had a lot of fun this year on the podcast. This thing is an absolute thrill to make and we got to give a special shout out to our friends at Callaway who have supported this show for five years running now back when almost no one was listening to this show.

They were still supporting this show. So we owe so much of the success of this podcast to them and they're continued support of us and proud to announce that that support will continue into 2022 as well. They've got a great new line of stuff ready to come out. We're going to go out to Vegas in January. Test some of it out. Hang out with some of their players. They've had an absolutely enormous year on tour with a conversion of John Rom into

Calaway him winning the US Open Phil Michelson winning the PGA Zander winning the gold medal at the Olympics. That's truly don't have enough time in this shout out to list out all the great successes they've had in the past year. All we can ask, if you're considering putting new equipment into your bag in the next year, at least give Callaway Golf a consideration,

go to CallawayGolf.com, get all kinds of information on the golf balls, the wedges, the putters, the drivers, the fairway woods, the irons, they have truly have an offering for everyone they have multiple offerings that you could probably make work in your bag. As I mentioned, this podcast has been a thrill to make. We work really hard to not make this show very click-bady. We make the content for the people that will tune in every week.

Make sure you want to tune in every week. It would look a lot different if we were trying to reach the largest amount of people possible, but you can help us reach a few more people. A couple of ways you can do that that are very easy. Go into iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. Give us a five star review, drop some comments in there. Some people get in there and get mad at us for just the most minute details of the year

and they give us a one star review. Can you help us offset that a little bit with some five star reviews? It really helps when people click on the page and see a 4.8, 4.9 rating out of 5 to know that this is a show. We're listening to it if you believe that. Only do that if you do believe it. Second thing is this is a great episode. We always believe to share with somebody who may not listen to the show. It gives you a good taste of what you can expect in the interview portions of the podcast and kind of highlight some of the best stories of the year, best, most digestible

little parts of the podcast for the year, all in one place. So if you don't mind sharing this with somebody that you think might be interested in it that helps a lot. We always see a little boost coming into the new year with people that do do that. So that's greatly appreciated. Without any further delay let's fire away with the highlights from the first half of the year. Let's start with episode 437. This is Bones after the PGA championship that Phil Mikkelsen won at the age of 50 which I feel like we should start pretty much every show just by acknowledging the fact that Phil Mikkelsen won at the age of 50, which I feel like we should start pretty much every show just by acknowledging the fact that Phil Mikkelsen won the PGA this past year. I know Phil has not letting us forget it, but it really is truly remarkable.

And hearing bones talk about that, the perspective he has on all that was a really great list. And this is episode 437, bones. So I'm guessing if I ask you if you're surprised that Phil Mikkelsen won a major championship at age 50, you'll say that you're not as accurate as I would say. I would say that I certainly got part of it wrong. I don't know who I said it to. I certainly said it some friends we were talking about at the golf course today that I thought that Phil would break the record for the oldest person to win a major, but I assumed it would be the masters and he couldn't have been more wrong.

I mean, certainly, guys like Phil and Tiger have, in my opinion, an incredible advantage at Augusta National, not just because they've won it several times, but because they know the breaks on the golf course, they know everything about it. Of course, it's the one major that's played there every single year, and they've got these incredible memories and all this data in their know, in their brains about what and what not to do there. But for Phil to go to a golf course as penal as that one last week and do what he did, I mean, it's incredible. In my opinion, it's one of the greatest feats in the history of the game. I'm not a golf historian. And I'm happy for him.

For multiple reasons, and certainly one of them is that, you know, having been his caddy for 25 years, you know, you read these articles about, you know, where does Phil Mikkelson rank in the greatest golfers of all time? And I remember, you know, he's folks saying, well, he's 11 to 15. You know, there's this and that guy, and you've got Tiger Woods and Jack Nicholas and all the other greats. But with what Phil did last week and the age that he did it at, I think it's not only an amazing accomplishment, but it's also going to make it that much more likely that he's thought of as potentially down the road one of the 10 greatest golfers of all time.

And I can certainly certainly from my little caddy vantage point, you know, having been there for a while with him, say that, you know, he's a mind-blowingly talented guy. And some of those shots that he hit last week, even early on, I saw him hit a shot. I was, Max was on the same side of the draws him, so I didn't see much, but I was watching the highlights on Thursday, and he hit this flight at 6 or 7 iron in the 15, and I was like, wow, at 50 to hit that shot, to get the club set, as well as he did the width on the way down, it was really, really impressive. And I kind of thought to myself, he sure looks like he's on a something here. And again, we saw what Watson did at the Open Championship

at age 59. I remember catting, I think, in 97-rated the Masters in Jack Nichols, was in contention at like 57-rate years old. There is no question that Phil and hopefully Tiger can, when the Masters well into their 50s and and my goodness after what Phil did last week knows what he might do here in the coming years. Next up episode 430 with Jordan Speed talking about his path towards getting his game

back among other things. If I may say every time I talked to Cori or anyone there at Alta, they were steadfast at all times, never wavering that you were close. To the point where I was finally, as a fan of yours, I was kind of like, all right, well, I mean, they just spew in this at me just to keep my confidence up high. But did you feel that kind of confidence from within the team, you know, because looking back at it now, it's like, wow, they were right. Like he was on this path and he's come out of it, but internally, did you feel that? Yeah, it's also hard when you're kind of down on yourself,

sometimes it's really nice to have people in your corner that have confidence in you and stuff like that, but it's also almost easier to be alone at times because you can't figure it out yourself, and you're like, maybe, and you like that, but it's also almost easier to be alone at times because you can't figure it out yourself and you're like, maybe, and you're like, well, I don't necessarily know if you know what the problem is, so I don't really want to hear it from you right now. Even though it's all supportive, and it's, you know, I mean, it's just, it's kind of odd. And, you know, for, again, as I mentioned before, the team that that I have around me has in my

opinion is, is there the best of what they do in the world? And I've, it's been proven to me. I mean, I've seen that. I've seen them all in action. Take, I've seen Michael in situations where he knew exactly what I needed to hear at the time and it just flipped the switch for me on a stretch of holes that made a difference in a tournament. You know, I've seen Cameron problem solve something that's like, wow, in the next 10 days, I went from feeling like, man, I didn't have that shot to, I'm gonna hit that shot under pressure

to win a golf tournament. So, you just, my confidence never wavered in the team, but sometimes you don't necessarily, like you just kind of, it was hard. It was almost like just easier to try and solve it on my own, even though that's not the answer. You just almost want to dig through it and feel like, and so once I started to open up and just rely on some other people and really let them in, it was, it actually really, really helped turn things around for me. Next up is Hunter Mayhand episode 410. We used a lot of his rider cup

related talk for the rider cup medley podcast we did leading up to the rider cup. There's a lot more in this episode, truly one of my favorite episodes of the year, episode 410 with Hunter Mayhand. I don't want to general this to say, like you were young and dumb because you had, you know, eight, nine, 10 years of sustained success in professional golf and a ton goes into that. But you've got to play for a long period of time without having to doubt anything in your process, right? You talked about seeing that tree and hitting it right there.

And then now, when you, I don't wanna say admit that there is a problem, but now that you know, you have that problem word in there, that's what you're trying to overcome more than you are trying to hit it right at that tree. I don't know if that, how I said that makes sense. Well, yeah, you can't be scared to say, man, I've got, you know, it's a vulnerability

is a good thing. You gotta tell yourself, man, I don't get it. You know, I told Sean after Pebble, and it was even after the first round. I was like, you know, I shot 60, said, I was like, I don't get it. I'm not feeling it or understanding it. I need help. I need, you know, we're, I'm missing something. And so there was a few years where I was like going to the golf course, going, I got no

idea what's going on. Like I just don't feel it. I don't, I don't have a trust. I don't quite understand. And so that's really hard. And that's a very, very uncomfortable feeling to go out there and play golf and feel like, I'm not really sure what it's going to do today.

And I don't know if it's going to miss left or miss right. That was very much a very tough time where I was like, I just don't really want to be out here because there is no hope because I don't really know what the problem is. And so that was hard and I was definitely a struggle. And like I said, it's a slow bleed. You know, like when you see with, you know, it's great to see Jordan Spees come out of it.

But did anyone ever think in Jordan Spees 20, said he would struggle to the point where he you know He falls out of the top 15 in the world and it's like that's just assing I think the guys just a He's a grinder and he's a boss of it what he does But it's a slow bleed. It's not something that happens quickly And so it's really hard to see the problem because it would just kind of happen overnight But it took a while to get there. And that's the challenge with golf is you could be, you know, it's almost kind of when you

look at Tiger's time with Hank, it was really, I mean, it was just higher normal. And then all of a sudden, it just kind of, it just stopped and you're like, it just doesn't look the same anymore. Something's off. And then he, you know, grinded away got with Foley and got him, got it just doesn't look the same anymore. Something's off. And then he grinded away, got with Foley and got it backing in quickly. That's, it's really hard to find your DNA and understanding of, what do I do?

And how do I get better at doing that? That's a hard question to ask because everyone's trying to get better, but it's a fine line between doing that and still keeping your DNA in what you do and why you are great at it and you can repeat it when you need to. Next up is from episode 425, the 1991 Ryder Cup deep dive that we did this past year with support from BMW.

It's a series of interviews from a lot of people that were involved in it about the final putt on that green. If you haven't had a chance to listen this episode, I spent many, many hours on it. Please go back and listen to it. But there's a bunch of people in this one that voices are probably pretty clear on the final putt there at the 91 Ryder Cup episode 425. There was now a very real chance that Hail Irwin was going to lose three of the last four holes and the rider cup was going to be retained by Europe. Irwin told a reporter quote, I couldn't

breathe. I couldn't swallow. The sphincter factor was high. Johnny Miller told golf digest, there was more pressure put on those two players than ever was exerted on anyone on a golf course ever. Erwin's nerves might have been good enough to win three US opens, but this was too much even for him. Longer played well from the French, but too hard. The ball rolled six feet past. Erwin came up about 18 inches short and longer conceded it. Bogey.

Longer was six feet away from retaining the Ryder Cup for Europe. Here's Erwin. I've heard you of going down there several days more frequently, several rounds. I've played more than anybody else on the team. I remember being in the team room and I told them if you're on 18 for whatever reason, there seems to be more of a back to front break than it appears. Whether it's the smoke, whether it's the drain, whether it's the way the wind comes through, something is making that ball break more to the front than you think.

Question is, what was I thinking about? I was thinking that I hope Bernad doesn't know what I know. Yeah, we went through my routine, you know, looking at the pots from both sides and my kitty Peter Coleman at the time was reading the parts with me and we both came to the same conclusion that it's a left-etched part but it was a unique situation because I had two very crusty spike marks exactly on that line. I mean it was only a six foot part so about a foot in front of my ball or something, there were these

two crud deep bike marks standing out of, you know, above the ground and they were exactly on my line's left edge. So we both saw it, so we both, you know, saw there was a left edge path with a slope, but we had a quick discussion while I hit the spike mark. The ball can bounce left, it can bounce right, it can do anything and everything and you have to understand the type of grass. Some spike marks are not as bad as others. When you play you know bent grass and it's a little moist off the grass, the soft of the ball goes more or less on over. But when you play Kioa, and I think it was from Udegra, and it was laid in the afternoon, about 5 or 6 p.m. or whatever it was, and the grass was, it was windy and

sunny, the grass was really crusty. So I figured that ball, if it hits those white marks, you had no chance. So we decided to avoid those spike marks by putting it straight. I figured if I aim at the middle of the hole, I would just miss the spike mark. And hopefully the pot would only break slightly, so it would still go in on the right half or inside the right. And that's what Peter McCatty and I decided to do in the end. Remember that I noted earlier that this was only the third match to make it to 18 green all day. Regarding these spike marks, based on where they put it from and the paths they

walked, Kurt Sampson notes that they could well have been from the nails on the soles of the stylo shoes of stylo's worldwide spokesman, Nick Fowdo. Oh, you could hear a pin drop. It was just an amazing atmosphere. I'm not sure I've ever seen anything quite like it. I mean, I'm sitting beside the green. I got my head down, and he's generated a puff this forefoot. But, and I realized that we're probably going to end up tied.

I feel bad because I thought we're going to win by a big margin. And we would have, we had the limo wreck, I don't think. Roger Mulby said, I was at the front of the green when Erwin and Longer were putting out. The crowd was enormous and completely encircled the green. I was kneeling next to Faraday. When Longer was over his putt, David announces, this is bullshit. We've all dreamed about having putts to win the open or the masters, but nobody wants this putt right now.

It was as dramatic a moment as I have ever experienced. I thought I made actually a good putt, but it just break and went over the right lip and then going. You know, I had to make a decision about the spike march, what I try and hit him and go over him or go to the side of it. I made the best decision at the time I could and it him and go over him or go to the side of it. I made the decision at the time I could, and it was maybe the wrong decision. But that's golf, we make 70 decisions a day. I didn't watch the pot, and then I heard this roar before I realized that he missed it.

Pain jumped up and grabbed me and hug me and just started yelling, we won, we won, we won. Everything after that to me is a complete blur. I don't remember going into the ocean with our blue blazers on that picture you see all the time. No recollection of that. No recollection of the dinner that night or the party course, I was probably blasted out of my mind. Well, the immediate effect of it was in a sense very disappointing because I felt like you know played good and I made a good spot And it didn't go in and I felt bad for the team They all suffered because I didn't

make that part basically and the celebrations were tremendous on the US side and rightly so after you know being defeated for whatever it was five or six years, three times in a row now to want it back on their own in their own land is a wonderful achievement but I know there were many many players reached out to me and and Halear and was one of them on the US side but several several others. And my whole team said, nobody should have ever had to face that part and just tremendous pressure.

But whatever they said at the time, I still felt terrible. That's just how it is in competition, especially that kind of competition, whether it's just a winner or a loser, there's nothing else. Up next, a couple clips from Mad, McNeely episode 412, just gonna blend a couple highlights

from that episode into one clip here. Along lines of, you don't worry too much about your bad golf and that your pro golf career is gonna be defined by getting the most out of your good golf. Meaning you don't beat yourself up too much about miscuts. It's mostly just like, hey, how do I get the most out of what I'm playing well? Does that sound right? Maybe you can define that in better terms. Yeah, I totally agree. The way professional golf is structured is very exponential. So the difference between 55th and 56th is tiny compared to the difference

between first and second. And, you know And the difference between second and tied for second, which was what that birdie on 18 got me, was I think in the ballpark of 70 points, which is a top 10. So it's a game within a game, and when you're playing well, you have to really optimize, and just take advantage of your opportunities.

And it makes sense when you're good stuff going and you're climbing up that leaderboard, it gets more exciting, it gets more fun. That's what people care about. That's what they're watching on TV. The harsh reality is nobody really cares who's in 55th. So it's kind of a game within a game. You got to play well enough the first 60 holes

to give yourself an opportunity to feel those things and feel those nerves in that pressure And then it's another game to figure out how to execute and finish higher up on the leaderboard where you want to It maybe I'm reading too much into it Maybe it's just because you know we've had this discussion in the past But I see like so far this season you've made seven cuts and your top 25 and five of them So you're there's not a lot of those kind of middling around in that 40th place. It seems like when you do make the cut, you have been able to take it inside that top 20, whatever that may be. Am I reading too much into that? Or do you see?

It's definitely a pattern. If you tee it up on Sunday and you're in 40th place, you pin your ears back because like I said, the difference between a 69 and a 70 is not that big compared to the difference between a 64 and a 65. So it's also a lot of fun on the PGA tour that you can move up the leaderboard with the pair of 69s on the weekend. You don't have to shoot 64, 63 like you did on the Corn Fairy tour, especially if you make the cut

on a number. Some places separate more, but it feels like solid golf gets you a lot further out here than it does on the Corn Ferry, and racking up a bunch at 20, 25th place finishes is a quick way to keep your card. Because you can't race past so many of the things that I think, I just see a confidence in you now that it comes from just a better foundation. Now, is that accurate, would you say? That is accurate. It's funny. Before Pebble, I didn't play well in Palm Springs, Missed the Cut at Tori, which is a place that I love playing at.

And going to Pebble, my game felt great, butch said I was swinging at best. He's ever seen putting felt pretty good. And I was just thinking, man, what else do I have to do? I feel like I'm doing everything right. I'm doing everything well right now. I'm not seeing the results. I was a little frustrated and then I go out there and play great and I go, huh, I guess I wasn't that far off. Just be a little more patient with myself

and don't stress about it. And you know, it's, but I think there is another thing too. That wasn't the strongest field at Pebble. Now we're playing with pretty much all of the top 100 players in the world this week at the players. And I have noticed that there's another level at those invetational tournaments. The greens are faster and firmer, the ruffs longer,

the fairways are tighter, and the players are better. And it's another level. And so now that's my focus. This week at the players is, do I expect myself to contend? No, am I going to do everything I can, obviously, but I'm going to learn a lot about what I need to do to make that next jump and to be really, really good at playing in these conditions and at this level.

Because I said there's a tour within the tour. And I think I'm getting better. The opposite field events, I feel like I've played in pretty well. They're closer to a corn fairy set up than they are to the players, or an Arnold Palmer invetational, or RIV, or something like that. But I feel like I'm learning, and I'm getting more

experience in those conditions. And when I say learning, I mean, it's just a familiarity with shots that you have to hit. Like there's tighter lies, you have to spin it off a tighter lie, you have to hit a putt with more brake and less speed, you have to kind of shape a driver in to hold the fairway. Things like that that, you know, say a Puerto Rico or Puntacana or even Tahoe, you don't have to,

you just rip it. And there's just a little bit more difficult, level of difficulty, obviously, in these events. Up next, a few clips from episode 394 with Mike Wahn, debriefing his tenure with the LPGA tour as well as why Women's Golf is on TV, when it is on TV. I'm gonna ask you to brag on yourself a little bit with this next one.

You've accomplished a lot in the last 11 years, but what are you most proud of? I can read off the list I have here if you want, but I'm curious to hear as to what was most meaningful to you. Yeah, I've said this in so many player meetings. I've said this in a ton of staff meetings, you know, twenty, twenty, thirty years, and no one's going to sit down and talk about, you know, the founders cup or your national crown or, you know, how might have got persons from X to D or TV deals and those are nice and those are timely for articles today.

But the reality of it is, you know, when people look back at the time, I always talk about the time we held the baton. I think this is one big relay race and somebody put the baton in my hand in late 2009 and I'm going to put it in somebody else's hand in 2021 and people are going to say like, what happened while they had the baton? And it's only going to matter if it's lasting. You know, purses and events, those are great. I'm proud of them. It was fun. But what I'm most proud of the fact that this game is going to be more female than ever

before over the next 30 years and it doesn't matter if the next commissioner likes that or dislikes that it's common. We've built that. You know, when I joined somebody asked me about the future of the game for women and I thought that's kind of a humorous question. The future of the game is playing. They're just junior golfers go look at them. And junior golfers looked exactly the same as senior golfers for a hundred years, 15% women, 85% men, mostly white male men. If you jump forward to today, 38% of future golfers are women. There's only about a third of them are white male men i mean this game is

gonna look and feel different it's gonna look and feel more like uh... the rest of the world and uh... that's what i'm probably most excited about that i would say that when you ask that question the two things would jump to mind is literally changing the face of the future this game is something this team take a lot of pride in and the other is just the relationships you know nothing

really matters at the end except except the people people you meet and work with along the way. And I can think I can leave this job 10 to 11 years later saying, almost everybody I worked with, I'd work with again and I think they'd work with me. And along the way in 11 years, I'm not sure I would have believed I could ever say that when it was over because you know, when you're in the middle of the grind and people are yelling at you and you're yelling at them You're wondering gosh, I wonder if I'm messing this thing up But those people I yelled at and yelled back at me are some of my best friends today and will be no matter what my business card says

So again, it might be a two-part question, you know with no fans and no programs there for a while Was that ever a thought for this kind of COVID era and why can't? Why can't dates like that change? I'm sure there's reasons why, but you, this is the fun of having a commissioner on. I get to play commission for a day and you tell me why I'm wrong. The reality of it is you're not wrong, but to really get the right answer,

you probably need to commit to this for multiple years, not multiple events. Somebody wants to hear this, but it's just true. A really great Wednesday. I mean, a really great Wednesday. When I have five hours of live TV competing with nobody, is so much worse than a really crappy Sunday in terms of TV viewership and fan attendance. It's just a reality so any kind of ad agency or marketing expert that will look at me and say hey Mike I tried this and you're right I got a lot of live windows on Wednesday.

I gave up a Sunday to do it and I got half the viewers. Now I killed it for a Wednesday sport because you don't really compete with much but a really good Wednesday. Still pretty bad. So and here's the other reality too is when I'm playing three to six on the golf channel while the got well the well the PGA tour is three to six on CBS or NBC. My number is huge. The reason they're huge is you're watching golf. You've committed a few hours to it. You probably don't commit a lot of your life You put them in your about example But some of the people that watch golf they go, hey, I'm gonna watch golf right now And let's face it. We've all got the clicker that makes us go back and forth

I get that back and forth for three hours and that gives me hundreds of thousands of viewers That I wouldn't normally have when I've tried these Tuesday Monday Wednesday things where we really had success in some of these kind of off-hour things to be honest with you, some of our international leadership. When we finish on a Saturday night in Hawaii, it's Sunday morning in Korea and Japan, and our numbers are through the roof in Korea and Japan, because it's breakfast and Wimbledon for them watching us, you know, the off. But the, so you're right. I mean, there's two things I have to have.

But one, if I move one or two tournaments, then I got to move eight. When you start talking about moving eight tournaments, you have to bring them a better value, a better idea. They like it conceptually until they do their homework, and then they come back and go, Mike, I wouldn't mind playing these dates, but the price is lower, right? Like, you're not going to charge me the same for less viewers. Are you? So when somebody asked me to lower the price, I'm usually done talking about that unique concept. So there, that I will not be the next commissioner of the LPGA tour then based on this idea. No, that makes sense. Although I hope the next commissioner on the LPGA is willing to try those things because I would tell you in COVID times, we as the best Thursday

Friday rankings we've ever had. And if I could have moved more events in COVID to the weekdays, I would have the problem we had with COVID times is by the time it hit us, we already had these golf courses and these TV contracts locked down for the 2020 time. So moving them in the middle of the year would have been more costly. And the last thing I was doing in 2020 was adding costs. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I hadn't really thought of the actual benefit of flipping back between channels more so than, you know, dedicating separate time to it.

And I always try to, I mean, I think we always end up thinking of things through our lens in terms of golf fans, and it's hard for us to divide our attention between two events when both are going on at the same time. But the numbers don't lie. So, yeah. I'll give you another good example. Like, when we're in a playoff, and the PGA course coming on and on, our hour's overlap, or vice versa, they're in a playoff and working on it.

And we go to split screen at golf channel. We go to split screen on network, or they go back and forth. The fans go crazy, they're upset, because either wanna see the PGA tour, or they wanna see our playoff, and they can't believe that we're sharing time together. Both tours are winning there at that time,

because the demand for golf at the same location is actually higher, and your viewership actually goes up. So we have to sort of say the fans gosh, I know that really stinks, but in my back of my mind, I'm thinking, I hope this playoffs lasts another three holes. I hope to keep going back and forth because my viewer, my sponsor is winning. And all the sponsors that are sponsoring

what's on the players' bodies and bags and everything else are winning during that time. So even though the fan reaction is loud and unhappy, the reality of it is, it's actually working for the touring for the players. Up next episode, 396 with Tommy Fleawood, a story about him and Fran at the 2018 Ryder Cup. The amount of takes that we actually tried to do that video was like the funniest part because it was, I mean, Ghibawir decided that this video, like we were going to do this, that great idea, know, whatever time, I couldn't even put a time on it anymore. I don't know, it was 1am, 2am, midnight, whatever it was.

And yeah, when we were off to the room and everyone gave us room and it's like, okay, you guys getting the better sort we're gonna do. And it's like, okay, turns around to get in the bed and I just like, took everything off. And I'm like, but like, as soon as Fran, like, saw, it was just just a really, really funny time. So we got the giggles at that. And then once we were in, Fran

after his had like a drink is so funny. And all it took was like to just look at each other. And we just couldn't stop laughing. And it was like it took so long to do. And they came out really good, but Franz very, very funny when he's had a drink. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Elijah Craig, still deciding what the holiday cocktail is gonna be in this house.

So you could always, I know I could stick with old faithful with just of course the old fashioned, it's what I've always stuck with. I love a bour Old Faithful, which is of course the old fashion, it's what I've always stuck with. I love a bourbon old fashion, but thinking about switching up this year, mixing in a little bit, a Lajacreg straight ride, it's a little spicier than the small batch bourbon, it's perfect for a Manhattan. I need to up my game a little bit, I need to just not have one go to cocktail that I can make.

Side note, I'm actually looking to buying one of those little smoke things where you can like actually smoke the old fashion more on that later. I didn't know the difference between bourbon and ride until the folks of Elijah Craig gave me a little lesson on it. Bourbon is made with a minimum of 51% corn in the mash bill. Rye whiskey is made with a minimum of 51% rye. So no matter what cocktail you decide to serve your guests,

you cannot go wrong with Elijah Craig. For recipe ideas, you can go to Elijah Craig.com, discover the greatness within. That's where I get my old fashioned recipe. I should have it memorized by now, but super easy. Just pull up, pull that up on their website and make it fire up an old fashioned. No way up is brought to you by alijacrag Kentucky, straight bourbon, whiskey, barreds, town, Kentucky, 47% alcohol by volume. Alijacrag reminds you to think wisely and drink wisely. Next up, a really surprising interview for me episode 404 with chip

back. This was one of my favorites of the year, just very open and honest about all things in his professional golf career. Again, episode 404 with chip back, 46 consecutive cuts missed between 97 and 98 when you knew it was time to walk away from the game, what you did and kind of what that was like. Yeah, that, that was a real trying time for sure because I was burnt out. I really wasn't playing my best game. I was getting up there in age, but the disciplines that I had developed

from working out in the morning, working out at night, and staying in really good shape, I created so many great disciplines to carry me that it really kept me going and kept me pushing but as I look back on it, you know, I played the piano and always thought, you know, the rest and the music is equally as important as the music itself. And if I had to do it over again, I would have taken a rest. when I got to where I literally I couldn't get the ball in play after I've tried to win the gust of hitting that 30 yard hook. I spent the next year and a half

Like in the right rough trying to hit my fame and I mean, I was out of the tournament 99% of time the first nine holes I'd shoot 3940 on the first nine holes holes I was playing. I'm out of the event. I think I might have had one good top 10 finish where I shoot 30-40 in any round, any nine for any 18 holes. It's just you can't make it up. You've got to be an offensive player when you play the tour. You know, it was cost to be $5,000 a week to get there. I had six kids or five, actually six children, but five under the four under the age of five. I got to where I couldn't play and I called my friend Joel Hirsch. I said, Joe, man, I'm, I've got six kids to put through college. I really, I don't think I can play golf anymore. I said, I need, I need to make a living. And he said, meet me

in Monday morning, introduce me a guy named John Vitt. For the next six years, I was playing seven events on the nationwide tour and where I could play on tour. I was selling insurance. And I was getting Monday morning, every Monday morning, I would have a two-hour instructional learning about the insurance business and learning out premium finance insurance.

Whatever it was, I was taught by this guy. So I'd bring people in, he went, John Vitt went to every meeting with me and I learned a lot about the business world and you know, without it, I probably wouldn't have had a chance to work with Jim Sutty. When I came home, I worked with him every chance I had

for gosh, 15 years easily. I learned so much from him. Every time I saw him him I was growing and improving. And he actually gave me a chance to play again because you know the hardest thing in golf is when you get a phobic response to your driver when you know you're going to miss it before you get there. I went to Rotella and Dick Coop. I learned all the tricks on how to, you know, like, I remember dick coop saying chip guys, it drive it poorly. They over aint, they're jamming thoughts and they're over aint, they're three things that they do. And that jamming thoughts is really

your mind's too active. You got to keep that level of anxiety down to about a four to five level instead of a 10 level. Next up, episode 431, a bit of a different one with Andy Roddick talking about playing with Sergio ahead of the 2017 masters. Who's the best player you've ever played with? You like play with Torporos often or kind of any crazy, awesome experiences with groups you've had. I play with Sergio a lot because he's he was he's an Austin now.

You get Sergio when he's just freewheeling or like relaxed and I mean, he just doesn't he doesn't, he doesn't miss shots. He's it's so good. The way he views a course is just, it's so different. Like we'll be a, we're playing it's Spanish oaks in Austin, he doesn't know the line and I'm like, well you know I'm trying to explain it like like if we went out and you hadn't seen a place I don't know what you play off of it. I'm like, oh yeah you kind of lay back here and you know I'd

be easy shot. There's no trouble. Like I'm saying, like, hit it here because there's no trouble. There's OB left. I'm like, it goes, it goes half fairway. He goes, how far is the hole? Like, I don't know. It's like, yeah, 400. What's the last, what does it do the last like 70 yards? I'm like, oh, it's like downhill kind of towards a pin.

He goes, I'm just going to hit it there. Oh, yeah, just do that. That's it. I go, but it's hard to get really good players advice. So I'll tell you this. This is like this. This is good for a podcast. So the week before he won the Masters, we played tennis every morning and we'd go out and play golf every afternoon.

And we're walking down 17 at Spanish Oaks. And I said, how do you feel about next week? And he's like, he goes, man, he goes, I've never, like, the golf course stresses me out. Like, I just, there's always a day where it's hard, it's windy, the greens, I miss a chip. Like, the guys who win the Masters grind through, and they end up at par on days where it's just hard,

and he goes, I just can't, I've never been able to grind, it's like completely self-aware, by the way, which I wish more of the golf world knew about him. Like they see his worst moments in his petulant moments. He would admit to those, but he's kind of self-aware. You know, when no one's watching, and he goes, he goes, but he goes, I've never had more control over my golf ball.

He goes, I can move it three yards either way right now. That's like haunting. And so he says it and he goes, I just have to get through that like tough round. He goes, I can score there. He goes, I need to like just save the bad day. And so it was like day two I think. It was blowing like 30, 35 miles an hour,

something like that. And he made 17 parts. And I'm going, oh my God. And I didn't text him, I'm like, don't say anything. Like this, what he's talking about. This is what he was just saying. He got through and he got like some tough up and downs, made some, you know, six footers, some tough six footers,

which obviously has been as a kille's heel over the year, the years, and like it was almost foreshadowing. It was crazy. And so I'm like, watching on Sunday, I'm like, oh my God, this is unbelievable. And then he, you know, burned the edge on the one putt to win it. And I'm like, oh no, come on, come on, come on. And he did it.

And it was like, he knew it was so clear to him what had to happen. And it was, so he comes back the next day. I go, how do you like the golf course now? I guess, I've had a difference of opinion. Well, you're gonna be playing the rest of your life, but he said, I have complete control over my golf ball. I can move it either way

High-low Whatever I need to right now. What a feeling that must be yeah Next up from episode 406 Kevin Na talking about the infamous 2012 incident where he couldn't pull the trigger at the players championship It's amazing to watch professional at your level kind of go through that Had you ever gone through anything like and I'm talking about, for people that aren't familiar, you had trouble pulling the trigger. While in contention at a PGA tour event,

what was that like to go through? And what was the cause of that, and how did you get past that? So it was 2012, all 12, okay. Yeah, so I went through, it actually started in late 2011, but I went through about it. I wanna say six months to almost a full year to get really out of it

But literally couldn't take it back. I could I would stand over the ball and could not take it back And you you can call it we don't like to use that word, but you can call it the Yips, right? I don't know how it started I want to think that it started because I changed my swing so quickly and I changed the balance in my setup and I think that it started because I changed my swing so quickly and I changed the balance and my setup. And I think because I changed so quickly, my body and my brain hasn't adjusted to it, that's the only excuse I can think of. And it was an exacerbated under pressure.

And I got fatigued or a lot of pressure. It just got worse. And it was almost afraid to go teet up in a golf term and play in front of people. And in my job, you can't play in front of people. You don't have a job. But looking back now, it made me stronger. It made me a better golfer.

And it taught me a lot of things to appreciate just the simplest of in golf. But I've had a lot of messages from people. A lot of people coming up to me and asking me, to appreciate just the simple stuff in golf. But I've had a lot of messages from people or a lot of people coming up to me asking me, you know, I've had the same thing. Can you help me? I've seen another professional golfer at the Open Championship, I was playing a practice round.

And he had the same thing. I was like, oh my God, he actually WD that from that tournament did not play. But for me, usually guys, when they go through something like that, they fall off the map, they can't make a cut. You know, you never see him on TV. I was playing some of my best golf. That's what's crazy to me about it.

You got inconsistencies. Yeah, I was leading the player's championship. So it's crazy how I still played well under that under what was going on, but it was rough. It's something that I don't want to ever experience again. I think I am definitely over it, but you just never know, hopefully it never comes back. Oh, I hope I didn't just put it in your head for this.

But next up, a really fun episode we do with John Wood from episode 406, now a commentator with the golf channel, former caddy out on the PJ tour. One of the more insightful guys that we see on television week to week basis. This was an action-packed hour of nerd stuff, which you know I love. Again, episode 406 with John Wood. What are they looking at, I guess, when they're opening up their books? Yeah, it's a great question. It's funny.

When I started out here, the books were so basic. What they've gone to now is incredible. Mark Long, who used K for Fred Funk, does most of the books for almost every tournament these days. They're so detailed. I honestly wouldn't be afraid at this point to go on to a course without having seen it with Mark's Yardage books. I almost think they're too good that you don't have to do the homework that maybe you had to do in years past to figure everything out But what we're looking at a lot of times when these decisions get made are Okay, I know how far it is to the pin that's that's easy But that a lot of the times is completely irrelevant. I wanted the players and a macaity's want to know

How far is it up onto the swale right in front of the pin? How much room do I have behind it? You know, what exactly is left of this green and can I get it up and down if I hit it there? Let's say for example, I've got a player who hits an 8 iron 165 and we've got a pin that's, you know, 162 to the pin, maybe 158 up top of a swale. So an 8 iron, you know, a normal eight iron is going to fly a little long. But if I know we've got eight yards behind this pin, which I've noted in my book, or I can tell him, hey, you've got all the room in the world behind this pin, you can hit this all day, and it's never going to go over the green. It gives him that little bit of extra confidence. And I think most of the bad shots on the PGA tour are because of

indecision and not fully committed to the shot. But if you can give him that last bit of information that he goes, oh, well, I don't have to take much off this eight iron, you know, which, you know, when you're trying to do something special with a shot, take a little bit off or cut it or draw it or something you're not used to, that's when that little seed of doubt can be introduced. But if you tell him there is no way you can hit this 8-iron over the green. And even though it's probably going to land 12 to 15 feet past the hole, that's fine. So it gives them that extra bit of clarity in terms of stepping into the shot. If they know they have the right club, if they know they that it

can't go anywhere really bad, if they execute, you know, they're so good that they they go into a shot with no fear whatsoever. Up next is episode 414 with Pernilla Lindbergh. We did an interview with her ahead of the A&A inspiration this past year. And she made a very simple point here about what how how male professional golfers can help female professional golfers and I found this pretty profound. A way that the men's tours might be able to help the women's tours at least a little bit. Yeah, I mean, if I could probably come up with for sure some better ideas, I've never put that much time into thinking about it, but I know I've said in the past, like I would love for the guys just,

every now and then to just kind of speak up a little bit more on our behalf. You know, I just loved such a simple thing as last week when Michelle, we west, I guess I should say now. Yeah, and made her debut back on the LPJ tour and I saw Justin Thomas did a social media post. I know they're good friends

and you know he said how excited he was to see that Michelle was back playing. I was like you have no idea how much that means for us on the LPJ tour to see that one of the guys tune in and you know say something like that. You know just little social media posts whenever the guys have kind of mentioned something about us we need more of that. I mean, that's that should be a pretty simple thing. Just for because their voices, they carry a lot of weight. So, you know, if they say that they're excited to tune in, that that should hopefully make a lot of the general fans pay attention as well. And then obviously the other one that I know has been talked about a lot is trying to get some kind of

joint events, team events, mixed events, you know, something like that. And hopefully if something like that took place, a lot of good things could kind of trickle down from that as well. But I would love to hear what your ideas are. Well, mixed events was one of them. And I was dreaming a little bigger than just having players

do social media posts about it. That's extremely interesting. No, that really is. That would just be a good start. That's simple. That's extremely simple. You're exactly right. And I think that I just think golf can work.

I know the LPGA tour and the PGA tour are separate entities, but they have a relationship. The PGA tour does some negotiating on their behalf for television deals and you know, through the relationship with NBC and golf channel, there's, you know, weaving in and out of PGA tour golf into LPGA tour golf. And there's a lot of overlap there that we forget who who said it somewhat recently. And I just hadn't really ever thought of it as simply as this, but a women's players championship at TPC sawgrass would be very, very, very interesting. Golf fans would love to watch TPC sawgrass for another week.

And I just think that would be such a cool, it doesn't have to be a crossover. It can be different weeks, but you know, something along the lines of the, you know, the A and W A being right before the Masters, like, what if there was either the week before or a week after the players championship, like a women's players championship? That's, that's an idea that I haven't heard circulated a lot until somewhat recently. And I thought that would be a great one. Then the obvious one is a women's Masters at Augusta National. I mean, exactly.

I mean, that one we've all heard before, but yeah, I mean, if you're saying there's a women's players championship, sign me up. I'll be there. Absolutely. We, I mean, we on the LPJ tour, we're used to working a lot harder than the guys on the PJ tour for everything, you know, for sponsorships, for just the tiniest bit of TV window, whatever it is. So if we can, you know, just get to tag along there for a little bit, that would mean a lot to us. I should have looked this up. Did you play the event in Australia that was the simultaneous men's and women event? Yes. What was that like? The Vic open. It was really cool. I even played it actually. I probably played it three or four times. So even before it was

Co-Section with the LPJ Tour, it was just Co-Section with the latest European Tour, but I still went down and played it. That's a lead up to the Australian Open. And it's a fun event. It's really cool. Even the practice rounds, you know, we played mix. I would go out to him in a practice round and maybe play with two guys. So, mix. I would go out there in a practice and maybe play with two guys. So in the final groups there on Sunday, every other group is guys and girls. And it's a cool atmosphere. It's a, it works. You need two courses, probably, to do it. But I mean, the other one where we proved that was a cool concept was the US Women's Open in 2014 at Pinehurst. Yes, I think they for sure Did much better than what I thought What's gonna happen because we went the second week. I was worried why are we going the second week is the course gonna be beta

And all those things but same thing like it takes a certain course but the way Pinehurst was playing I mean we could barely see divots from the guys. It was fantastic. So, you know, we would end it was really good for, you know, our viewing numbers and people tuning in. So, and I mean something like that again would really help us well. Next up is episode 428 with Marcus Armagedd, just a story that does not sound like a lot of other stories and professional golf. Pretty much that whole podcast fits the building this one, but a story about him. Restarting his pro career again episode 428 Marcus Armourditch. My dad's not buying it the old time, that's a really incredible guy, you know.

And anyway, he started taking me to a golf club again, eight o'clock in the morning, six o'clock at night. I had no car enough and just practiced, and I practiced my way out of it in 2013 and come back out on the mini-tours and started burning up again. And then I went to use a talk called the Euro-opera tour in England. So one of the challenges, so it's like the three day events, but it's just a bit bigger than the little one-dayers. And basically, I went and selected a 10 that year in the middle of March, it was like two degrees. So me and my dad selected this 10. We have no money, proper broke, we've lost these business and everything. I just thought, if I can just get a card,

I can then approach some people and say, oh, do you want to send me to this tournament for a bit of money? And anyway, one of the best mates said, listen, I'll do you deal. I'll send you that. I don't want 50% of you winning. I'll pay for everything. So I got the card and sent me to this tournament halfway through the year. I was just going to see him, because he had a big step up. I'm just going to go and feel and see how, you know, I'm good at these guys, you know, I went on one of the events and I was like, okay, this is getting a bit serious now, you know, you're showing potential. And yeah, and then I went to Challenge Star, which is obviously the one under the European

and I finished eight there in the first challenge star event. And it's just like, you snowballed a little bit. And then like old golfers at the end of 2013, I've had the best year in the career. And I decided to change everything I thought, right, I'm gonna lose five stone in weight. I'm gonna come out like, you know, like Hulk Hogan next year, I'm gonna be better. I'd come out like Hulk Hogan, but unfortunately,

I ate the golf ball like Hulk Hogan as well, so. I ate a bit of a bad season in 2014, but changed a lot and it just took time to get through it. Next up episode 402 with Justin Sir talking about trying to get into PGA Tour events. Sounds like you played some great golf and Monday qualifiers and it just did not. Did not. So he's a Monday cue. So I've like did not. So we did not. The Monday cues have been killing me, man. I know.

I know, but like you've got to tell us about that. You got to tell us that story of how that's gone. It's, you know, like, oh my gosh, these Monday cues are brutal. Like, gosh. Oh, man, I've been, I've been playing it. Like as soon as the pandemic was over, I started doing the Monday cues. And you know, my first event, I've been playing and like as soon as the pandemic was over I started doing the Monday Qs and you know my first event I think it was the cornferry in Utah. I shot seven under

and we did like a six-hole playoff and it got dark and I remember I just you know couldn't even see the green and got bumpy. Lost on that final hole. I was like okay darn it. You know I had a couple in San Antonio where my Caddy actually lives and breaks ranch. And I shot eight under the first week. And they're both at the same course. And for a cornferry event in San Antonio. So I shot eight under,

missed it by one, come back the next week at the same course, shot seven under and then missed it by one. And it's just it's been that way for almost every corner for you are like every Monday queue where I'm just like a shot away and it's just brutal man. I mean you're playing against so many guys for one day for three or four spots and you know you just kind of have to get hot. Um, but I'm taking that. That's the thing. I didn't get hot, but just not hot enough. I know. So it's just, you know what? The thing is out of all these Monday cues, like you

definitely learn, like there's something there's a learning experience that I've gathered away from just all these Monday cues and it's really just what it takes to show up for one day, really playing, really knowing how to just kind of, like that whole thing about turning it on, it's like, no, no, you just can't turn it on for one tournament. You have to be playing good golf and good rounds in your practice to make it almost effortless when you play in these Monday cues and just go out there and it shouldn't be a surprise to you that you shot 800, 700, 600. It's something that you develop over the course of your practice and these Monday cues

You know, it's just it's just Tommy like over one day like you know a tournament Thursday Friday It's it's a cut after Friday. You just kind of teaches you, you know, just to kind of always be on and just you know Just grind just get after it Yeah, you just kind of out of the play. Next up episode 430 with Jordan Speed. I don't say this lightly. This next part is maybe one of my favorite moments and no, I have podcast history. This, this point that he makes here. And sometimes I feel like I'm struggling to understand what I'm

watching when I'm watching professional golfers play golf. What they play for, you know, with all the, the money that's being thrown around these days. But Jordan's answer here, this was, this was what did it for me. This is one of my favorites. Episode 430 with Jordan's teeth. I sometimes wonder when I'm watching,

when things aren't going great, why you stress yourself out. I know it's competitive as probably the answer, but you know, you see what I'm getting at here? It's like, what, why let yourself be so stressed when you have things so great? And I'm just wondering what that balance is kind of like for you if that makes any sense. Yeah, you know, it's such a crutch to lean on in such an unhealthy way. If you're struggling

and you're like, oh, it's fine. I'm not gonna have to worry about money, so it's no big deal. It's such a crutch, and it's such an inhibitor to actually getting out of a funk. And I ran into that. I mean, you know, as I think a lot of people do that are in, you know, somewhat similar positions, you run into it a little, and then you realize it's just, it's such an ego-oriented mindset

that's so unhealthy for trying to To find mastery in your sport and I think and I'm using very common golf psychology terms It's really it's not difficult for me to Play each round as if that's my first tournament ever. I don't find it difficult because the game is, and as you know, it can't be perfected and it's just so much fun when you start to get on the right side of momentum in the sport and you start to contend and compete with the best in the world and we get to play the best golf courses in the world. Not only do we not have to pay, we get paid to play the best golf courses in the world

with the best players in the world. And then you start to get some momentum and you're like, wow, I can beat these guys too. I mean, it's just, it's like, it's like a drug. It's so addictive. And I think that's the drive. And I think that, you know, what you can struggle with a little is getting into that how you spend it and getting kind of, you know, lavish because that's what society says that young people with money should do, but it's like, man, if you can still,

it's actually easier for me at tournaments than it is at home to kind of feel that, that drug, that kind of, that surge for that mastery when you kind of get on the road and you're, and then it's more similar to how it used to be. Up next episode, 416 with Marco Amira. This was before the Masters. We, there's not too many guys that can tell stories about being at the Champions dinner and he is one of them. And we asked him everything we possibly could have you ever been asked to power rank some of the best Champions dinners of all time?

Some of the best meals you've had there. I've never been asked that question. How would you do it? You know, in respect to the Champions and going to the Champions dinner, which I've gone to everyone since I've won. My take is I always eat whatever the defending champ is serving. There's opportunities like if let's say a defending champions got I don't know whatever they have on the menu. There's options off the menu that the players if they don't prefer to want to eat that for dinner, maybe they're serving, I don't know, something, whatever

it could be. Maybe they're serving a fish and these whoever's up there doesn't really care for fish, they can order a steak. So it's not like every most of the time I'd say, what I've witnessed is 90% of the guys at that dinner on Tuesday night usually eat whatever the defending championships champion serving. But there are times where you know I've seen guys have something different off the menu so it can happen and you know all the meals I thought my meal was was really good like and when I served it and after I had one in 98 I I had the dinner selection menu for 99 and I hosted that dinner and at that time I had like a big sushi bowl appetizer

out front during the cocktail party, which is literally 30 minutes prior to seeing down and having dinner. And it was just so cool to watch, you know, Arnold Palmer and back in the day, you know, Sam Steeve was still alive. And they're just chowing down on the sashimi up there. I mean, it was so much fun to watch.

And then we sat down for the dinner and Byron Nelson was the head of the table. And I sat up there with him himself and then Hoody Johnson. I'm sorry, Jack Stevens was still chairman then. And so to sit up there at the head of the table and look at these legends that are out there, and I'm thinking to myself, what am I doing here?

Number one and number two, I mean, Gene Sarasin was still alive. Every living master's champion that was alive in 1999 came to the dinner in that year that I hosted, which was a tremendous honor for me because that doesn't happen a lot. I mean, Jackie Burke, he hardly, I mean, he's been the two dinners and all the times I've

ever been a member. And now obviously Jackie is quite a bit older, but he came in 1999, he came one other time over those last 23 years. So to have all the past champions there was just an amazing thing for me. How much say do you actually have when you come to set in the menu? Like is it a collaboration or do you just say, you know, here make this or do they come back and say, like listen sir, these two things don't go together

but what we can do is this, take us to what that's like because I read these menus especially, you know, coming from somebody like Dustin Johnson, I just can't picture him using some of these words. So I'm just wondering kind of what the collaboration is like between the club and the winner in terms of setting what's actually on the menu. Well, I think it's definitely certainly over the last, well, you know, luckily for me though, the last 23 years, it's become more defined. When I they call me and ask me and I say, well,

I'd like to do this, this, and this. And they're like, yep, perfect, we can do that. So, but there's been times where like, certainly when Sergio won, it was a little more detailed and then I think, I don't know who the other player was, it might have been, they kind of brought their chef in to help with the chef at the club. It could have been Sergio. I'm not sure who, but I just know that those the time the club, they just want to be a really fun casual evening and dinner for the guys and every time I mean it just seems like it goes so smoothly. I mean they're

so as you know I mean the Gustin National they cross every tee and every dot and they don't miss a beat and so when it comes to comes to sitting down and the plates are absolutely perfect and the serving and the whole thing goes by like so like orchestra, like going to a great concert. I mean, that's kind of what it's like at that champion's dinner because I don't know. They just, they've done so many and they don't want to mess up and they're very precise.

Yeah, there was, I've only ever heard, you know, some people, they're poke fun at, you know, when Sandy Lyle served Haggis, which was before your time going to the Champions dinner, but it is. Yeah, thank God for that. Thank God for that, Chris. Haggis is, they would,

you gotta have a lot of hot sauce though. Okay, I gotta have lots of hot sauce. Yeah, but it was, it was kind of like on my list to ask you was, you know, who's, who's meal has been a let down, but I don't think Augusta's gonna let you eat something that wasn't, you know, meticulously prepared and absolutely delicious. Next up is episode 423 with someone we've gotten to know really well over the past year. That's of course Madeline Sagsdram.

She's one of our young hitters, one we've been proud to sponsor on the LPGA tour. It was a part of a big video series we did called a week in the life. This past year, if you haven't seen that on our YouTube channel, please check it out. Also, episode 423, Madeline talking about going public with something that was obviously very difficult for her, why she did it, and her story there. Episode 423 Madeline Sackstrom. You came forward with a part of your life

that was obviously incredibly difficult. And I'm gonna use some of the words you used in the LPGA Drive-On video, which is also included. Parts of it are included in our week in the life video, but you said, I'm sitting in a hotel room in Greenwood, South Carolina, and I can't stop crying. It's March 2016, and I'm here to prepare for a symmetrical event later in the season. I want to give myself the best chance to succeed, but I can't keep this inside me anymore. I need to tell someone about the secret that I've kept bottled up inside of me 16 years. I'm wondering as best as you can tell us that story and then I'd like to get

into as well as how telling that story has helped you in recent years. So when I started working with Robert, my only intended focus was this is for golf. I'm going to be so I'm going to become such a better golfer by working with him and blah, blah, blah. And I think most of my decisions in life have been like golf, golf, golf, golf, everything is about golf. And when I really started working with Robert,

he made me understand that if I, like how I am as a person affects my golf, and who I am, and how I view myself, and how I view the world is also going to affect how I play. So I kept, like, I've had this thing come up before, but I've never so, like, this is no point. Why even waste thought about this? And I've kind of just kept, like, pushing it down, pushing it down. But us working on me being free, being free in my mind, being free

in my golf made me realize I am stuck here. Like I don't want to open this door. And if I open this door, I know I have a lot of work to do. And that that week when we were we were playing a practice round because it was one of my biggest semester tournaments, we were there early and I know, okay, for me to be the best version of myself to become the best call for ACME, I need to open this door now and I need to start working on myself.

And that's when I decided to open up to him and talk to him and it was, I mean, looking at it now is the best decision that I've ever made. I wish I him. And it was, I mean, looking at it now, it was the best decision that I have ever made. I wish I would have made it earlier. But that's when I was ready for it, and that's when I was ready to face really something that has defined me, or more an explanation of why I have reacted to things that I have, why some of my behaviors are the way they are. It's not everything, but it was a huge part of that my developmental stage into professional golf

and to how I define myself in that world. Sexual abuse is not a, I mean, it's a difficult topic, right? I mean, it's difficult for me to ask you about even. And your, I guess, the video starts with Beth Ann Nichols saying, Madeline Sackstrom is a brave woman. And that's the word that comes to mind when I think of you deciding to tell this story in such a public way. Why was it important for you to tell it in a public way?

Was it a bit of therapy for you or was the goal to help people? I'd like to hear kind of why you felt it was time to tell the world about this. I think it's a bit of everything. I mean, every time I open my mouth and I talk about it, and it just saying the word sexual abuse, it just becomes easier and easier. So for me, speaking about it, speaking about my own emotions

and just my trauma in that sense helps me ask a person and deal with my own stuff. But at the same time, like you said, it's hard to speak about. And I was like, I want to make it less hard to speak about it, because so many more people than we can even understand our dealing with this. And it's unfortunately, we're never going to end. Like, you can't, you're're not gonna be able to reach the predator But I can reach the victims and I can reach them and make them understand that you first of all You're not alone in this and also there is light in the tunnel like you can go through this and still survive Like it's it's not going to determine how you want to live your life

Next up episode 441 with Mark Calcovecia talking about finances out on Taurus was a great and candid interview as you might expect from Kalk episode 441 in 86 things changing. If I can highlight it here, you made $29,660 in 1984 and that was your highest earning year of anything between 81 and 85. Then you earn 155,000 in 86 the first year that you won. Then 522,000 in 87 and then you're kind155,000 in 86, the first year that you won, then $522,000 in 87, and then you're kind of often running. So how much does life change when you struggle on the road for a very long period of time,

and now you're actually making money? Quite a bit, I bought my first house in Bear Lakes and West Palm Beach in 87. Actually, I met my first wife out in Phoenix, the Phoenix Open, where I finished third and 87. We got married eight months later. Next year, or in 89, one Phoenix again, and then won the LA Open, and then went right down and bought a BMW for Cheryl, my first wife, and a Porsche for myself. So yeah, I went from living

with my parents, you know, trying to grind out many tours in a few years to having all these luxuries. And I couldn't always afford them, but I had my motto has always been, if you want something, buy it and worry about paying for it later. That's not really a good motto, as I've gotten older. That's, I can't tell if you're saying this with pride

or the little bit of regret of how you've had this over the years. I did okay for myself, but I'm still living by that motto and I haven't played in a golf tournament in eight months. Not making any money. How's it work once you maybe get used to a different lifestyle and you have some success in a period of time, once you maybe get used to a different lifestyle and, you know, you have some success in a period of time, but then you start to, you know, maybe struggle at a different period and you're missing cuts and you're spending money in traveling

and just wondering if you, you know, kind of how you manage that flow, if you experienced any of that and points in your career. My entire career, I've always worried about money. And then next thing you know, you win a tournament. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy.

I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy.

I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. I'm, like, man, I need to make some money. Back then our purses were a million dollars.

I remember when Las Vegas was the first time to be a million dollar purse. And that was, I mean, that was everybody's like, wow, we've hit the big time. We're playing for a million dollars this week, you know, 180 grand for first. And now I saw the purse at the memorial is 9.3 million, you know, every single purse is like

at least 8 million, it seems like. So now that now all these young guys, the young superstars, the walking neemons and the Victor Havlons and I guarantee you they're not too worried about cash. It's just they're playing for so much and they're making so much. It's a different ball game. Well, in your of of the age where, you know, the arrival of Tiger Woods pretty much

a dissect your career, not quite right in the middle, but you know, you played for a long period of time before Pursus just grew astronomically from, you know, 1996 to 2000. And you know, guys love to tell stories of how the PJ Tour used to be different. The party atmosphere was maybe a little bit different, guys would, you know, be in bars to late at night,

you know, when they had morning tea times and stuff like that, and it is not like that currently on the PGA tour. Can you pinpoint when you've started to feel like that kind of environment shift out on tour? Yeah, pretty much. You nailed it right on the head, right in between 96 and 2000, the Tiger Woods effect. And we all watched it in amazement. And, but the next thing you know, you know, our purses are going up and we're playing for a lot more money, you know,

we're playing for five million dollar tournaments. And everybody had a pretty big smile on their face, you know. And everybody in my age will be the first to tell you, it was Tiger Woods, was the reason why. Next up, Mark Calcovecchi, againchi again episode 441 talking about coming to terms with the 1991 rider cup you know with that whole story arc, you know constantly getting asked about it and here I am asking you about it for a second time Yeah, no, it's I'm fine with it. I really am. It's I remember it like it was yesterday and and I watched a lot of the pga a few weeks ago And first of all, I thought it was fantastic that Phil won. I think everybody was cheering for him. That was quite an accomplishment at his age. But yeah, I got a few shout outs for my shot on 17 and some grief on Twitter for it.

Guys calling the shank and I said, well hold on a minute, it wasn't a shank. It was a, guys calling the shank and I said well hold on a minute it wasn't a shank it was a you know I don't know what I said I was a smothered delofted get-away head of a choke job of a shot I just tried to hit it so low I just got so far ahead of it just smothered right in the ground basically but yeah it was that wasn't good and then you know what a lot of people forget is I still had a two footer to win the match. You know, if it would have been the earlier in the round at Tile Hall, I'm sure Monty would have given it to me. But it's to win the match and of course I missed it.

And then I hit two really good shots on 18, but I hit a three hour just over the green. And that's the worst place you can hit it. I should have taken one last and just tried to kind of get it anywhere over the green and that's that's the worst place you can hit it. I should have taken one last and just tried to kind of get anywhere on the green and two putt and get out of there, but anyway it was yeah I was I was shaking off about it afterwards there's no doubt I went out in the beach and bulb my eyes out and you know you know I remember earlier in the in the in the our podcast or our talk that I said that you that a lot of golfers, almost every golfer on the PJ tour has a feel or a feeling or a great imagination and stuff. I just knew or I had a feeling that that half a point that I should have, you

know, the whole point I should have one and set a half in the match. It was going to come down to that and share enough of it did when Bernhard had that five footer on the last hole for them the win and you know somehow he missed it. I was on my knees out in the fairway with painstored. He had his arm around me and all of a sudden it hard to crowd. He rubbed and he jumped up and started hugging me. We won. We won. We won. And then I I I, I, I basically don't remember a thing after that. Next up episode 450. This is Stuart Sink telling a Claret jug story. Tell us about how you,

the way you almost returned the Claret jug to bat when you brought it back over. Oh, yeah. Great night. We had a late house up in South Carolina for a long time, which we just sold. And so my buddy Chad Parker, who runs East Lake, he's my best friend in town here in Atlanta. And he and I grew up in the same town in Alabama. So I've known him since I was literally like six years old. So we were celebrating the last night of all of our togetherness before I left to go back to the British that year

and return the jug and Chad and I both were in the barbecue a lot. And we have a professional cooking team where we compete in barbecue occasionally and Chad is one of my cookmates. We got my coach Mike Lipnik is the other member of our team and so we're we're seriously in the barbecue. And that night we had kind of done a little barbecue feast for the gathering up there. We had probably about 20 people. We had some like a drizzle that you would put over pork. We affectionately called it sop mop.

It was like a barbecue sauce, but also kind of a marinade, kind of a combination, but very tasty. And we put it in the clear jug and we drizzled it over the pork at the table, kind of like a showpiece, right, with the clear jug jug and that was kind of the photo moment. And then there was some, you know, Guinness and some other adult beverages that were present. And so at the end of the night, during the cleanup, I thought Chad had cleaned it out and he thought I had cleaned it out, the clear at jug. And so, um, clear at jug goes back in his case. And when I had the jug in my possession,

it's not like I got it out all the time. It stayed in its case for, you know, a week or two at a time without being touched. So it went back in its case and we had about, well, that was on, that was the end of the 4th of July weekend. And we were leaving for the British probably on like July 8th. So we had three or four days. So I show up at the airport here in Atlanta, and we're going through security, and I know a lot of security people in there. And so when they see me come and they're like, uh-huh.

You know we're gonna have to check that. We know, because they knew it was a clear jug, and they're like, uh-huh, we gotta check it. So I was laughing with them and they pulled it out and started looking at it, and other officers came over, and everybody was kind of crowded around. Yeah, look at the jug and then meantime, I see the sop mop start to drip out. The sop mop is dripping out of the clear at jug right there in the airport, right there in security line and

the line is kind of backed up and I'm like, guys, I think we've got people waiting and it's dripping right on the little felt in the case and I'm seeing a disaster starting. So they put it back and they close it up and I'll went straight into the bathroom. And so I'm in like the the tea gates in Atlanta right there at the bathroom at the end of security and I'm washing out the clear at jug in the bathroom in the sink and pouring out the salt mop. I'm sure people in the bathroom are the sink and pouring out the salt mop. On the way back. People in the bathroom were like, oh, Stuart, we get it. You won the British Open, man. Like we get it. You don't need to clean it in the airport. But so yeah, cleaning out one last time, guys. So, um, so, uh, you know, I didn't have anything really

to dry it with. So I kind of put it back in the case wet. And I was worried when I got there overnight flight and all that. It was going to be like really gross, really moldy and everything. But when I got there, we went over a little bit early to go to Dublin and play golf around Ireland for just a couple of days before we went over to the open. It was at St Andrews that year. And so when I got to Ireland to the hotel, I got out of the case and it was wet and gross, but it wasn't moldy or anything. So I stood it up in the corner and let it air dry for the rest of the day while we were out playing golf.

But yeah, that was kind of the last little fling I had with it, the SOTMOP. Next up episode 448 with Stacey Lewis talking about returning from back surgery again, one of my favorite, favorite interviews of the year. We did this ahead of the KPMG women's PGA this past year. For people that aren't familiar with your background, how you got into golf and kind of what you went through as a kid in the unliklihood that you would be a successful pro golfers long as you have.

I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, so I was diagnosed with scoliosis at age 11, which is, it's just a curvature of your spine. It's a genetic deal, more common in girls and boys. It's just, but they don't actually know what causes it. Some people have it and they live their life and they're fine. It's just a minor curve.

And for me, I was very young, had a pretty bad curve. And so they put me in a back brace. And it was originally supposed to be for two to three years. Just hard plastic had velcro straps, wore it underneath my clothes to school. The only time I took it off was when I played golf or swam or like showering or anything like that. But because I was little and I didn't finish growing until I was almost 18 years old, so I ended up wearing that back brace for six and a half years.

Which is my doctor says to this day it's the longest he's had anybody wear a back brace before. But then back brace comes off. It's supposed to hold your curve from not getting any worse. And so once I stopped wearing it, my curve got pretty bad again. It got significantly worse. And so right after I graduated high school, I had a rod and five screws put my back. They fused five bird of prey. And so I mean, at that point, I mean, just playing golf, I thought was out of the picture. Yeah. It's, I think we can look at, you know, with Tiger having his back fused, look at it as a magic surgery, like, oh, yeah, well, I just never do that.

It works out great, but it also seems like it's not pleasant necessarily and not a, not a fail safe that just a plot can be applied in any situation. But no, it's, you know, the hardest part, you know, a man doctor said is those muscles in your back, they learned to work a certain way for 18 years. And then all of a sudden, you go in a man, a doctor said, is those muscles in your back, they learned to work a certain way for 18 years. And then all of a sudden, you go in there in five hours and basically just move everything around. So I had to get strength back in my back.

You know, fortunately, I was able to still play golf afterwards. I mean, I thought when my doctor said, back surgery, I was done, you know. And so for me, it was just to be able to play college golf and have that experience with my team. I mean, I remember my dad saying like a couple years ago that, you know, he's like, I knew once you played your first college event, I knew everything was going to be okay. Like just being able to play that was it, not play on the LPGA, get to number one of the world, with majors. I mean, that wasn't even in the realm.

Another clip here from Stacy Lewis episode 448, just talking about various topics around the LPGA tour. You touched on it there, like all the simple stuff. That's why I just keep trying to keep digging into, you know, what is it? And, you know, I talked to Angel Yen about this a couple of years ago, I remember, and she just said almost the exact same things

that you said. It's incredibly easy, some of these boxes. You would think to tick. I'm sure there's a lot of logistical things to go into it, but. Well, and go ahead. Well, you look at just a great driving range, a great putting green. Of course, they actually close it down a couple of these prior to get it in the shape. These are challenges that the guys never have to worry

about. I mean, we have some weeks where there's a full T-sheet for members on a Sunday before. And that's not to like put shame or talk bad about any of our other tournaments, but that's just purely the challenges that we face. What is, this is maybe a bit off topic, and I want to get into some of your background here, but I'm kinda surprised that 2014 was the only year that we saw the men's and women's US opens go back to back at Pinehurst. As a viewer, that was fantastic.

I thought, you know, you know the course as you roll into the next week and you're excited to watch a totally different playing style the next week. Well, how was the reaction like on the LPGA tour on the women's side for how that worked out for you guys? Well, I obviously played well that week, so it might be a little bit of time. I had a feeling I was a little leaning question. But it was so cool. I'm honestly surprised the USGA hasn't done it again,

because I thought for us I thought it was unbelievable. I mean, we were worried about what kind of shape the golf course would be and after the guys and everything. And it was totally fine. The USJ did an unbelievable job of making us hit the same clubs into holes. So where the guys all had all their divots, we were way ahead of that. So you necessarily didn't really have to worry about that. And I thought one of the cool things was is on, especially on 18, they took a lot of stands down from when the guys played to when we played, just so when we finished there, you know, it looked full, it

looked packed. I know we didn't get the same number of people, but it was still packed around that green and it looked great. The stands were full, but you know, maybe if you keep the stands like they were for the guys, it wouldn't have, it would have looked more empty, you know know and not it looked as good on TV so they did little things like that but like that week we got the player dining that the guys have you know this big massive room you know and so that's what I mean it's just little stuff it's not like I don't feel like we're asking for a whole lot you know but like we got all the amenities that the guys had we got to see how the golf course played ahead of, you know, but like we got all the amenities that the guys had.

We got to see how the golf course played ahead of time, you know, to help us out. So I thought it was great. I thought it'd be something that the US Shade would go back to, to be honest. Next up, Marco Mira again for episode four, 16 talking about a little putting issue he is having during the Masters that he actually ended up winning. Pretty wild story. To win there, you have to have a little bit of luck unless you're Tiger Woods and you dominate the field or you blow people away by how low you

go other than that I mean it's always a fine line you know and it certainly comes down to the back nine at Augusta National on Sunday afternoon and for me it seemed like I could never get all the stars aligned in other words what I mean is I either go there and I'd hit the ball pretty well and I wouldn't put well. Or I'd put pretty well and I couldn't hit it as well. So when you're not as long as somebody other guys, you have to have all those things lined up perfectly to win it Augusta.

And what was really strange about 98 was going into the event. I wasn't hitting the ball well. I wasn't putting well. well. I wasn't putting well. My confidence was extremely low. And I guess that that that in turn lowered all my expectations. I'm 41 years old. Nobody thinks that you know, Mark O'Mara is going to win the Masters. Nobody has me on their radar screen, which rightfully so I understand I felt the same way and yet on Thursday I don't know if I've told you the story Chris or not, but on Thursday I had about a eight foot

I'll never forget this as long as I live on the 10th green for a par and I was struggling with my putting and I had a little bit of hit in my stroke and I I had this 10 footer It was a left to right about a cup left to right break and I kind of yipped it I missed it on the low side, but I can feel a little bit of hitting my right hand. And I shot 74 and I remember coming off the green on 18 and my wife, time, Alicia, my two kids were young. Michelle was 11, Sean was 9 and Hank Haney was there. And Hank was always teaching me at the time. And I said, you know, it's either I come to Augustine National. I was obviously a little peturbed. It was windy day, 74. And I said, you know, I either come here and I hit the ball good, and I don't put any good, or I put good,

and I don't hit any good. It just never calls, comes together. And I said, Hank says, well, I know you didn't put very well. What's going on? I said, well, I yipped one out there on the 10th green. It's only Thursday. And I'm yipping puts at Augusta on Thursday. How the hell are you going to win a tournament when you do that?

And so, let's go to the potting green. So you go to the potting green and he says, look, it looks to me like your head and your eyes are aiming too far right and your potter's aiming too far left. And I'm like, okay, so what is it? Well, this is like at seven o'clock at night. I'm like, I'm Thursday night. And I say, what do you want me to do, Hank?

And he goes, well, I think you should, you know, try to tilt your head a little more to the left so your eye, angle is more left and open the putter face up. And I look right then and I looked on and I said, do you realize Hank that the greens are running 13 and a half out there on the stump meter? I said, are you crazy? How the hell am I going to do that? He goes, well, I mean, what do you got to lose? I'm like, yeah, you're right. But and so, you know, of course, I get out there Friday just trying to make the cut. And I got my eye line trying to get it

more to left, which felt awkward, opened the putter up and I didn't really feel like I put it very well. I didn't feel very confident. I shot 70 and I made the cut and then boom, here comes the weekend and you know you just never know in this crazy game and I and I've told people this over and over and over and over again. I honestly didn't have a tremendous amount of confidence on the greens that week. And yet I came down to a putt on the 18th of all or it came down to look at the stats and I had the fewest amount of puts

that week in the Gustavion. What a dub game. That's a silly. Crazy, right? I mean, crazy. You know, because I'm watching, like the, I watch the whole, you know, replay getting ready for this. And when you got on the green, it was just watching, like, I watched the whole replay getting ready for this.

And when you got on the green, it was just like, oh, well, this one's going in. Well, this one's going in. And to know that internally, you didn't have confidence, I just, that, that, that, that, that, that, Well, as your mind doesn't, I mean, it was crazy. There was two plots that I felt pretty confident over

where I hit a really good putt on 16, the par three on Sunday. And it didn't go in. And then I, you know I said that was from a famous words coming off the 16th green to my caddy Jerry Higginbach at the time I said Jerry you know that's a good a putt or a good a six iron as I could hit that's as good a putt as I could hit under these circumstances I said you know what give me a new ball I'm gonna bury the last two holes now only he heard that and I don't even know why I said that because I'm never come across that confident to be fair Chris.

And the put on 17, I felt good over. I that was the I'd say of all the puts I hit the putt behind the hole on the 71st hole was a 12 footer 10 footer, whatever it was. And I felt good over it. I knew I was going to make it. I felt like I was going to make it and I made it, but I wouldn't say had that same feeling on the 18th cream. Next up episode 450 again with Stuart Sink just talking about mental side of golf. You have a career that you've learned a lot of mental stuff and it sounded like even at that point

you are not necessarily trying new things but almost having kind of some enlightenment when it came to the mental side of golf. How would you describe your mental journey in the game of golf and how that has contributed to some late career success? I'd say it started when I found myself dreading going to the course when I was probably about two years into my career on the tour. And I won pretty early, I had a really good college career, I got my card almost right away, one in my rookie season, so I had experienced only success as an adult. What I found was that I had just created these expectations in my mind and I had sort of imaged what a golfer is supposed to look like, say a golfer that's ranked in the top 40 in the world and playing in the world's biggest stage and a PJ Tour winner, for instance. I felt like I was assaulting myself when I would not live up to that experience.

Like a golf ball out of bounds, a three-putt, you know, a left to ball in the bunker, anything like that that just happens to everybody. The number one player in the world does a stuff, but I was not forgiving myself for it. And I found myself like dreading it, going to the golf course, and what am I gonna do if I missed the first five footer, or if I hit it OB, on number two, I was just not looking forward to playing golf,

and I didn't know why. And so I kind of like a reverse engineered the process, with help, with help, I sought out a couple of sports psychologists and that didn't really go very far for me. a reverse engineered the process with help, with help. I saw it out a couple of sports psychologists and that didn't really go very far for me. I went outside of the realm of like the sports psychology world and went into more of like trying to dig a little deeper and find out who I was as a person

and what was going on. And that's what led me to understand what these expectations were doing. And when I first heard about this from a guy I used to talk to a long time ago, an impressing, waddington down in Florida, I felt like it was just a huge burden lifted off my shoulders. Like, oh my gosh, it's exactly what I've been feeling like. And that explains it.

And I felt like it was okay when I wasn't giving myself the okay before. And so that was how I kind of started the journey. And to me, it was two things. It was number one, very effective as far as like an approach to the game and recognizing these feelings and these thoughts that came. And so I could deal with them a lot better and more effectively and I played better.

Number two, it opened up this real interesting world to me. Like wow, this, you know, how you were raised and the things you experienced as a kid and When your mind was impressionable Your self-esteem how you feel about yourself in certain situations all that stuff was really interesting to me and started kind of digging more into it And so that kind of led me on that journey that is really still going on. I still find that interesting and I'm always trying I've always been journey that is really still going on. I still find that interesting and I'm always trying. I've always been a Y person. I want to know why.

You know, my coach tells me you need to take your club more outside. I want to know why. I'm not just going to do it until I'm invested. And that's been the way I've approached this too. You know, when I feel a certain way over a putt or a shot, you know, coming down the stretch and a tournament, why do I feel this way? I want to investigate why and uncover the reason so that I'm familiar with it next time it happens. That's going to do it for part one. Stay tuned for part two, which we'll be hitting the air wave shortly.

Thank you so much for tuning in. It's gonna be the right club. Be the right club today! That is... better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. Expect anything different!