No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 508: Holiday Medley, Part II

Episode Date: December 22, 2021

In our final episode of the year, we highlight some clips from Rory McIlroy, Justin Thomas, Jon Rahm, Tony Jacklin, Andy Gardiner, Mike Whan, Bob Rotella, Mike Devries, Bones, Chris Dimarco, and many more. Thanks so much for supporting another year of the No Laying Up podcast. Can't wait to bring you more in 2022.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the final episode of the No-Lang-Up podcast for the year. This is part two of our holiday medley. This is highlights from the second half of the year.

Man, this was a lot of fun to put together. We had a lot of incredible guests here in Q4 especially a lot of the top players the world as well as mixing in some great stories from from people in the past and Tony Jacqueline all that great stuff. So our friends at Callaway want to thank all listeners who checked out and put their equipment into play this past year that you know we've passed on a lot of comments from our listeners you know to Callaway to help and keep them in the loop as to feedback from people and what people are super interested in and it keeps them It's made them super excited to continue to work with us and so on behalf of our friends at Callaway to our audience

They want to wish you a big thank you a big happy holidays and thank you for for being a part of incredible golf community We also want to give a shout out to our friends at original penguin if you got some gift cards I know some really isn in this pretty late, close to the holidays. Maybe a little too late to do shopping for someone else, maybe at originalpenguin.com, but if you're getting gift cards or you're looking to, you know, I always got money back in the day,

like, hey, I don't know how to shop for you, go figure it out in your own. If you are someone like that, go to ridgelpenguin.com, they have over 400 items currently in their holiday savings event online. They offer free shipping on orders of $75 or more. I just did a big closet reorganization here. Found a bunch of old original penguin sweaters that I'd kind of forgotten about. They really

make incredible stuff, especially their winter stuff for me. I wear their knit sweaters. I don't even know what you would call it. Kind of checkered sweaters all the time. I wear their hoodies all the time. their golf shorts Their polos it is something for everyone. They got shoes jacket suits bathing suits T shirts dress shirt many dress You know the short sleeve dress shirts. I need to start working on that. I'm gonna try to be able to pull that off That's a goal for 2022 So original penguin dot com again free shipping on orders of $75 or more without any further delay Let's get right into it with highlights from the second half of the year.

Let's open up part two with episode 492 with number one player in the world, John Rom, there's a couple different clips merged here together talking about analytics, club foot, and a whole bunch of other stuff. This was a really, really fantastic interview. Episode 492 with John Rom. It's everyone's favorite topic, of course,

and I know it's a topic you've covered extensively since the memorial, but it was one of the wildest scenes of the course, and I know it's a topic you've covered extensively since the memorial But you know it was one of the wildest scenes of the year and where you're putting on all-time Performance at memorial you're playing and we don't know this as fans watching but you're you've been in the testing protocol for several days prior to this knowing that there was a chance You could test positive due to being exposed to somebody so but are you thinking about that? you could test positive due to being exposed to somebody. So, but are you thinking about that, while you're putting on this performance, are you at all thinking about the possibility

of testing positive while you're playing? No, but I was aware that there was a possibility. Oh. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. I don't know how to explain it. You know, I had gotten vaccinated shortly before. And I spoke about this too. I had the J&J vaccine appointment done, and literally 30 minutes

before I got to the clinic is when they called them back. They suspended it for the block-club problem they had for a second. And that's why mine got delayed because then we had the PGA, and I was like, well, I'm not going to take it right before I'm not going to recite a fake level line that's why I did what I did. And I was I mean I was in contact with somebody who tested positive and then throughout the week I wasn't feeling my best but I was like well it could be side effect you never know right I mean I didn't have a fever I just felt like a little cold right my throat wasn't feeling great and I just felt like, you know, not 100% I wasn't feeling my best. And I even told Adam when we were starting the third round, like 10 minutes

before I'm like, dude, you know, I'm going to do a little bit of extra time. I'm not feeling great. And who would have known that as soon as the gun went off my mind just completely shifted, I forgot about it. I just, you know, the adrenaline took over and when I finished and they told me, the first shock is like, are you kidding me, right? I'm putting a record performance when they're supposed to have tough and dis golf course for nothing loathe whoever happened again and I'm here 18 on at the three rounds. Hoping I could, you know, set some kind of squadron record and be the second back-to-back champion and all those things. You know, I have my mind set on, you know, rewriting some history books stuff because that's feeling that good.

And, you know, when I saw my trainer come down with a doctor, I knew, right then and there, I'm like, okay, I know it's positive. I just knew, because my trainer, there's no reason why he would come. Now, for people that don't know this, the main reason why they came is because they didn't want me being physically touching people on the crowd like high fives or anything and then presenting the positive test. But as much as it could have maybe handled a little bit better, I still think they did

the right thing. They had to tell me before. I just wish we would have found all this out way earlier so I wouldn't just put the performance I did on the last few holes and you know. You know what makes me more mad about all this when he comes to stats? He counts as a WD. I know. I have never withered from a tournament and I won't just don't count it as a start because then it will say it says that last year I had 22 starts 15 top 10s, it's really 21 starts 15 top 10s or at least do me the decency to give me a top 10 because even one handed I would have been able to finish

in the top 10 that week after what I you know with the 6 shall lead right so it kind of it misses more and more in my mind that I will never WD from a tournament like this. I physically can't pick up the club, right? So it's just It almost makes me more mad that if you're gonna force me to withdraw. Don't count it as a throw Count it as a start just towards future stats It almost you know if I'm not gonna get paid. I don't get anything of this just somehow Change that yeah, but getting back to what I was saying, because I was aware that it could have happened, I actually got over it much quicker than people think.

Honestly, people think, people I've talked to think I probably still met it. And like, not really, I mean, it's COVID. I'm just happy that everybody in my household was healthy. I've had friends that I have really good family, friends die from COVID. And it's not a fun thing to talk about. You know, it's not a fun virus to be making fun of

because people are truly dying out there. Some others may not be getting many side effects, but if you get a bad one, you know, odds of surviving are not very high. And if anything, I was thankful that everybody I was around either didn't get it, or if they did, it was mild, especially my wife and my kid. God, I was really worried about that. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that ends up my next question was, you know, how, you know, your press conference at the US

Open was about as thoughtful and as grounded as imaginable. And it, it, it, it sounds like it didn't take you long to reach that conclusion. And I had, you know, just in seeing your reaction off coming off the green Saturday, in my mind it probably would have taken you a couple of days to reach that, you know, kind of more grounded conclusion, but it seems like you were able to get there faster

than we may have been interpreting. About 20 minutes. Yeah, wow. I got into the scoring area. I threw a fit in the scoring area because I was pissed. And then talking to our perspective, right, when I thought about my, my, my child and called my wife, I went to that little trailer they have for the people that are in contact tracing. We ordered a couple of Buckeye shakes from the clubhouse. And I was having a good laugh with my daddy.

We were laughing. First of all, because we couldn't believe the situation. And second of all, because we were all aware it could happen. And taking it to the bottom point as well is, if we're talking off-wise, we're a week and a half away from the US opening. I just put the performance of my life. I should be happy about the state of my game.

I'm happy about that. I guess I'm going to have a couple days to rest at home because I'm not allowed to leave. So try to be happy about that. And then, yeah, I mean, I got over it. It's just once I realized, you know, Kipas healthy, Kelly's healthy, her parents not being in contact are healthy. There was no reason for me to really be upset. right? It is what it is. Things happen. You move on. I always choose to think on the bright side of things. I'm always going to be positive in every single situation, even though I drive my wife absolutely nuts. I'm that guy. Oh, baby, it could happen. I'm always the positive guy. And yeah, I mean, I got over it. And like I said in that interview as well, I told, like I told, and I told Kelly as well, you know.

I'm a believer in karma. And when something happens, I feel like I was owed something. And I told her, I don't know what it's going to be. I don't know if it's going to be me winning something or I was getting maybe another great, perfectly healthy pregnancy and child. I don't know, but something good is coming. And as I stood on that tea

I'm sending out the US open. I knew that was the day. So you know, it's just It even sell at the end of the day is gonna even at Another thing that correct me if I'm wrong. I've not heard you speak on before this year I think it was in July you had you had mentioned that you were born with a clubfoot and One I have have you ever, I guess, people in golf know that, or is there any reason why people maybe didn't know that? And you know what, explain to us kind of what you were,

you were saying this summer about how you learned to swing the club or how that affected your swing. First of all, I'm gonna note this, because I heard on a podcast, this is back to what we were talking about before. No, I was not trained to do that interview I did at the US Open, that press conference. I was not told what to say. I actually was sent a spreadsheet of points to go through and I basically threw it back

in my manager's face and I told them I was going to be myself. So I heard it on a podcast and it's been lingering in my mind. That was 100 hundred percent me Hundred percent John Rom just being honest like I've always have been in Interviews but people have so being caught up on the fact that it's just an angry golfer that they couldn't get past that and If COVID see that COVID situation that anything for me people got to see who the true John is right and It's you know there's been a shift in popular

opinion big time in that case, you know, they got to see who truly, who I truly am, not who they thought I was. Yes, I get angry on the golf course because what I do matters to me, but this a very small part of who I am as a person. And I feel like I had to say that because I don't usually say it, but I just, you know, every interview I've done, nobody has ever told me what to say. It's me 100%. And I'm actually as transparent as I can be in every single one of them. That's why I feel like maybe I don't know.

They're boring to watch or you just don't believe what I'm saying. But, you know, you said you're a technical geek, but also, here you say you're a numbers geek. Are you into the analytics and are you looking to where you can shave off point one strokes by driving it here instead of here? And I'm wondering what that process is like for you. Oh, hell no. No.

God no. I actually mean my caddy have fun with the people that use stats and make the strategy based on stats. It's just funny because I've never worked that way, right? My brain is never really I Don't make a strategy before I T off I get to the T look at where the pin position is look at the conditions we have and then from then I've made a I make a strategy That's about it. There is some holes in some cases where I'm like I'm there no circumstance

I'm gonna hit more than X of the T here or I won't go for this ring unless I have a little four iron or less. You know, the certain circumstances but for the most part, much like Sevy, there's no gameplay. I get to the T, see where the pin position is and basically I trace back, which is the best spot on the fairway for me to attack this pin and what do I need to hit to put it there. That's pretty much how I think about it. What about in-between tournaments as far as just looking at what you've done well,

what you need to improve on, which ways you're trending in certain areas, is that something you look at? Yeah, but how long of a period are we talking about, right? Like, I'll usually, if I'm working on something, you need some time to put that into effect, right? You've got to be able to try this on tournaments to see if it's working or not. That's kind of where where I'm at, right? You got to do it on the pressure when it matters most. So that's why, you know, if it's one week to the next, I'm not really going to look into it

because there's not enough data to support anything, right? So I usually do it every couple of months, you know, three, four months. If I were to think about next year and if I'm trying to improve something, I'll be working on it and I'll look maybe right before the masters, see if it's trending the right way or not. Because you need enough events and different weather conditions to make sure you're doing something properly. At least the way I think about it, some people might look at it every single week

and want to know a significant difference, but, you know, it all depends on what courses you're playing and what you're playing right when you're playing to the points You're not hitting many wet shots. So your stats can either be really good or really bad Depending on how those three shots went the whole tournament right if you're playing an event like Palm Springs where Every other hole you're hitting wedges, you know, it's gonna be much more valuable Next up a very recent episode, episode 506 with Roy McAroy. Here's him talking about his 2021 year, pretty much it its entirety. So I started like the year.

You rewind back to maybe October 2020. You know, Bryson's just wanting you as open. And he did it in a way around Wingfoot that I just thought wasn't possible. Yes, Wingfoot has openings at the front of the greens. You can hit it way up there and the rough, run it up onto the green. And so, you know, other courses he wouldn't be able to do that.

WingFood, he did, but huge greens there too. Yeah, so, unlike I'm, I've always been a pretty good driver of the golf ball, but I was like, you know, I, maybe a little bit more speed could be good for me. And I think as well, you see some, as well, you see one of your contemporaries do something like that. And you think, for me, it's almost like I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it too.

And that's probably just my ego sort of getting in the way a little bit. But I did it, and I got some good speed, and I got some good numbers. But at the detriment to the mechanics of my swing, trying to get the club, you know, one of the easiest ways to get more club head speed is to take the club back faster. And I started to try to do that, but once I started taking it back faster, it started to get more and more inside.

And once the club gets behind me early, I'm done. Like, I don't know what to do from there. I've, you know, historically throughout my career, I've taken the club out in front of me or outside. And then from there, I know what to do from there. I've, you know, historically, throughout my career, I've taken the club out in front of me or outside. And then from there, I know what to do. The club just sort of drops and that's just a natural pattern for me. But once the club gets behind me early, the club has to travel such a long way to get back out in front of me. And it's like, I just can't, I can't

time it up. I can't sync it up. So I went into the 2021 season with that pattern of taking it in, getting it up and then throwing it out in front of me, which is like an over the top move that I've never done. So it goes two ways. It goes all over the place. And I started out in Abu Dhabi managing it, and had a chance to win there. I didn't play a great final round, finished third.

And then just progressively over the course of the next couple of months, not working on it, and not really focusing on it, it just got into this pattern that seemed really, really hard to get out of. So I sort of pieced it together a little bit. Mysticut in LA. Harry and I talk about this all the time. Probably my best performance this year was the T6 at the work day at the concession.

I could not find a club face. Oh, it was so bad. And I just got it around and pieced it together. And like, it's fine. Harry and I always joke about concessions. And if you can finish T6 with no game, at that golf course, then, you know, what can you do if you actually get this right?

So, you know, I think I finished like T-10 at Bay Hill and then I went to the players. And the players is where it started to just, you talk about two-way misses, like I missed the 10th fairway at Sawgrass on that first morning, 40 yards left. I mean, this ball just came out and went where did that come from?

Michael wasn't with me at that point. Pete Cowan was there on site. Michael had traveled, like Michael said, difficult to do. Not, I mean, sort of. I mean, he still came over during COVID and whatever, but yeah, it was a little more difficult during COVID to get over and back and everything, and just the restrictions that were placed on people

that were traveling in terms of testing and quarantines, and all that sort of stuff. So it was just, it was a little more difficult than it usually is, like it has been for everyone. But as well, like at the start of the year, you want to get into tournaments and play. And Michael and I have always worked great away from the golf course and away from golf tournaments. And then I go there on my own and know what I'm doing, I feel like I've done the work. So my head's clear just to go and play golf. But obviously at that point during the players this year it wasn't, I was, my head was sort of fried. And I played a really bad round on that Thursday, so I, you know, on Thursday

afternoon I just said to Pete, I've known Pete since I was 13 years old. He was a consultant for the Irish national team. So I've known Pete for a long, long time. Not quite as long as I've known Michael, but he's always been a trusted, if I want his opinion on something, he's always been someone that I've trusted to give me a good opinion on things. I'm advisor.

An advisor, Michael's talked to him a lot as well, so it's not as if this was a new thing, and it wasn't. So we started doing a couple little things at the players, and it was technique. Like there was some things I needed to really work on and so after the players I committed to, you know, okay let's see where this goes with Peyton and commit to a few months working with him and see if I can get a little bit

better and Michael was totally okay with that. Like he was like, I'm always going to be here for you, you know, if it doesn't work out, I'm more than happy to come back. And so it was very, very, everything was on good terms. So I worked with Pete, and I got a lot, you know, I learned a lot. I thought my arm play got a lot better. My wedge game got better. He just wanted to try to, you know, I was getting very flippy at impact. So just trying to stabilize the club face through impact and just get the

consistency of the ball flight a bit better. And then I got a quill hollow when I win, but I, you know, I didn't necessarily win quill hollow with my ball striking. I potted really, really well that week. And you could say the same thing about the C.J. Cup in Vegas. I potted really well that week, and those two wins were to do with my potted more than my ball striking, but I thought I was at least making a little bit of progress. And then going into the US open, I felt like it had hit a sweet spot with Peyton terms. Okay, everything feels good, hitting the shots I want to hit. And then the result followed.

I think as everyone in golf knows, you can feel really good on the range and hit the shots. And then once you get on the course, it's a different animal. Sometimes it just takes a while to trust what you're trying to do. So that was this sort of journey. And then it got to the point where in the summer,

I felt like every time I played a bad drawing or had a bad shot, it was just all technique. So then I just got wrapped up in my head about technique and just started to think about my swing and then. You're playing golf swing, not golf? 100% sort of freed myself up a little bit more. So like Scottish open, Irish open, Scottish open open was very, you know, it was more golf swing

and I didn't, you know, I didn't allow myself to play with the freedom that you need to play with, doing golf tournaments. And I went to the Olympics and tried to play with a bit more freedom and played a bit better there, played a bit better in Memphis. But then, you still need to, there's something to do with playing with freedom and seeing shots and all that, but you still need to have somewhat of a technique to match up, to be able to make sure that everything's coming out consistently. So I go into the Fattish Cup playoffs, play OK, finished fourth at Kibs Valley, I didn't

play great at Liberty, played OK at the Tour Championship, and then Ryder Cup was just a, I think, I got into this mindset of like when I got under pressure and got under the gun, especially at somewhere that's as pressure practice Rider Cup, I just reverted back to technique because it's all I was thinking about for the last few months and Like I played horrifically the first two days. I mean so bad And it was even to the fact where you know, Harry said this to me is like you're not even getting into your chip shots and your Puts because you're still thinking about the swing you needed to get yourself here You're not even just like forgetting about it, hitting a good chip, hitting a good

pot, you're like you're still thinking about the swing you just made and it just, it got to the point where I needed to completely free myself of all technical thought. And I sort of did that on the Saturday night. I said, right, I'm just going to go out and play the team and Patrick put a lot of faith in me to go out number one. I hadn't won a match going out number one the last two times. So I went down, I beat Zander, and I played the best golf of the week, and I just, for me, anyway.

And that was a huge realization. And I think the emotion that I showed at the end was to do with the rider cup and to do with how emotionally charged that week is, being with your teammates and playing all for one thing and it's such an authentic event. But I think the tears were also me realizing, like, you know, not what have I been doing for the last six months because I still feel like I made some progress. But, you know, why did I just, I need to just get out of my own way.

And that was the realization. And then, you know, go to Vegas. And like, I didn't know I was going to win Vegas. I just wanted to go there and free myself up and there you go. I win. Next up, Mike won episode 469 back on the podcast now in his capacity as the CEO of the USGA talking about the distance issues in the game. I'll ask this question to kind of kick off this topic. Is there a distance issue in golf? You know, I'm proud of you Chris, you waited 16 minutes.

So that's, you win the over under bed I would've said within five. You know, I think the bottom bottom line when it comes to distance is the question is, should we be concerned, you know, about the venues that support golfers in the next 50 to 100 years? I don't think anybody wakes up today

and worries about their golf course 50 or 100 years so now that's our job. You know that's our job that's our job together with the RNA. I don't think there's any way you could not have concerns about the highest level of the game and kind of what's happening to par 5's and 480 yard par 4's still being a driver and a wedge. And so if I think you've just turned a blind eye to that and say well it's exciting and everybody loves the Long Ball, which is true, and I fit into those categories as well. At the same time, you got to make sure that everybody loves the Long Ball doesn't turn into 50 years from now, your kids have dramatically fewer places to play because the game couldn't sustain the game. So I've said this many times, you know, I'm not here to preserve golf. I mean,

that's not my, I mean, croquet is preserved. And there's a reason why nobody wants to play it anymore, because it's exactly what it was 200 years from now, and that's great. It's really got protected. So, I'm not afraid of changing the game. I love the modernization rules of the game that came out. I love the fact that championships keep growing and making a bigger social impact than what they did, you know, just 10 years ago. So, to me, to me, games either are games either progress or they die. So when you talk about progressing, one of the things you have to ask yourself is you have the role, Mike, as does Martin.

And one of those roles is you've got to be the traffic cop. What's the speed limit by which we can make sure that this game can survive for the next 50 years? I don't have the answer to that yet, but I'm also not going to shout away from that responsibility. Next up, episode 500 with Tony Jacqueline. This is this was what truly one of my favorites of the year. This was a longer clip here, telling some stories, some Arnold Palmer stories. Who doesn't love Arnold Palmer's story? So episode 500 with Tony Jacqueline. Well, as long as we're on Ryder Cups from the past, I needed you to take us to 1967, which I believe is your first Ryder Cup, going up in a plane with

Arnold Palmer at the 1967 Ryder Cup. Tell us about that. Well, he just bought a new lead jet and we were in Houston at Champions Club, the club that Jimi DeMarit and Jackie Burke built and owned. We were hitting balls on the range and he's done on it all just gets finished. Okay who wants to come for a ride you know and like a I put my hand up George Will, well I'm a Scottish teammate of mine was next to me and yeah I'm up for it and Bobby House, he was the pro at Royal Booktale. He was over there with the group. And Jimmy, he was an aviator himself.

So we all go off its only around the corner of the airport. And we climb into this. It wouldn't be, you know, leas, you can't stand up in them. Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweith half an hour before hitting balls and there were still some of the guys out there and you could recognize their swings. We were pretty low in this thing. And I thought this is lovely. And all of a sudden, we, it turns to stink around and we go, we're going flat out at about 500 feet, you know, and everything's flashing by like it. And then he pulls it back and we go and straight up and spinning. And he's got this thing turned in round. And I'm looking up the aisle towards the pilot because he's up there.

Arnold is with his pilot, Darryl Walsh, was his pilot. And he's laughing and he's laughing his ass, he's roaring laughing, you know, looking back at us, George will pee these pants. I mean, it was horrendous. Literally, this is not a bad idea. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he had like great trousers, he had like dark grey around the crotch area. And it was unbelievable.

Anyway, I don't do too well, you know, on rollercoasters and things like that, but I was so glad to get down in one piece for a start. And we went back to the club after. And there was all hell that lost. I mean, it was all the aviation people were on the phone. Darrell, his pilot, was on the phone. Yes, a politician, an Arnold to his eternal credit. He went and grabbed the phone off Darrell. And he was taken, he took the rap, you know, for what it did because he knew if Darrell lost the license, he was taken, he took the rap, you know, for what it did, because he knew if Darrell lost the license, he was screwed. And, and the merit wrote a groveling letter.

And anyway, it was pretty, for 23-year-old, making his ride a cup debut, it was something to see the king having to grovel like he did, but how the hell he got away with that, I'll never know. I know I don't want it to ever happen again. It was a good one-time experience. It was remarkable. And of course, Hogan was the American captain that year. He was, and I think it's fair to say, that was no love lost between Arnold and Hogan. What's the origin of that? I've always heard that. I think it's a respect thing. It was like, you know, Hogan never mind important people

there. Back in those days, you could choose what ball you played. This would be interesting for some of the young people, but the British ball was 1.62 in diameter and the American ball was 1.68. I think I'm right and saying that it weighed the same in ounces as they measured. I wouldn't be certain about that bit. But you got to choice whether you played a small ball or the big ball. That was when you played in Scotland for the open. You could choose, but in America it was always you know, it had been the big ball. And I think in those days you got the choice. I think I'm writing an Arnold Made in Inquiry to Oak and as to what ball, you know, they were recommending

a play against Oak and said, who said you're playing, you know. Like that's the kind of put down he didn't mind any which, you know, he would enjoy that. I heard you always referred to him as Palmer too, which was kind of a little put down. It was one of the really funny things that we, for me, again, 23 years old. And there was, American players, Johnny Pot was on the team Gabriel. God love him.

He became a different, but they were scared to death of Hogan coming out and looking at practice. Oh God, I hope it doesn't come and look at me. You know, because Hogan was it. I mean, I'm saying, I never, he was perfection. I never saw anything like it. I never saw anything better. And I got to play with him a couple of years after that. And of course, he didn't look at the ball. He was looking at the player. And in case he had that bloody corkscrew swing, he knew his swing was anything but perfect.

He was digging a living out of this game despite the fact that the agricultural kindness went. And he didn't want to perform much in front of Mr. Hogan. It was funny. It was really funny at the time. So tell me about what's it like playing with Arnold Palmer in a writer cup, and I don't know if this is the same time to ask about the story you tell in the book about playing the Canadian Open with him and Jack as well.

Well, it was that year. It was the same year. So the Canadian Open had been a little earlier. We're now in September, and Canada was sort of in mid-Summer, we're in Montreal. And of course in those days they only televised the last three halls. Actually a lot happened that year. I actually did the first Hollywood ever televised in 1967 as well, playing winning the Masters at that must have been in Georgia. So within weeks we're at the Canadian Open. And Andrew Oman's Palmer Nicholas, and last round in the 16th hall,

the first hall that they're televising was a 265 yard par four. And Arnold's got the tea, and at the end of the tea, there's one of these big old grey old-fashioned cameras, TV cameras. I was going to take the ball up and he said, Jack comes up behind me and he says, watch him when the red light goes on.

I'm watching this and all of a sudden, you know, the red light being, he knows he's on and he starts giving it the snorts and the, you know, the shirts out of the back already and he rips into this driver and 265 was about, you know, pretty much the limit for then with the old ballata ball and stuff. And he gave it that, you know, that Palmer helicopter finished. He helicopter spin at the end. And of course, ball goes right in the middle of the green, you know, and another couple of, you know, and I just smiled at Jack, and that was it. It was the John Wayne bit, if you like. That's why that's what made him so great,

and that's why everybody loved him. It was something I'll never forget. If you're looking for a last-minute gift to bring home for the holidays, look no further than Elijah Craig. Elijah Craig's signature warm spice and subtle smoke flavor has earned it a reputation for being one of the best small batch bourbons available. It's exceptionally smooth, well balanced, it's great neat, it's on the rocks, orange

and old fashioned. I got a confession to make. I've been making so many Elijah Craig old fashions. I bought one of those online, the smoker kit things or whatever. Hope I don't burn our house down, but I'm hoping to finally master the art of the smoked old fashioned. You'll probably, probably see me posting about that on my Instagram if I actually managed to pull it off.

All you need is a little bit of sugar to enhance the sweetness, some bitters to bring out the spice, whether you're new to the world of whiskey or if you're an avid fan, you can't go wrong with a bottle of award-winning Elijah Craig. Pick up a few bottles today, ring in the new year with this award-winning bourbon there's greatness within. No laying up is brought to you by Elijah Craig Kentucky St. Bourbon whiskey barred-stown Kentucky 47% alcohol by volume Elijah Craig reminds you to think wisely

and drink wisely. Next up Justin Thomas episode 496 talking about Tiger Woods. This sounds even this is even more fun to listen back on after watching what we saw this past weekend at the PNC I'm just going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say that I'm going to say, I'd say I'd probably go over and see him two or three times a week when I'm home.

Just go more so to let our dogs play and hang out. And he wears our pup out. But no, I mean, yeah, he's doing well. I mean, especially all things considered. I think he's, I mean, he's just groundhog day. Every day is the exact same thing for him. But at least he's able to, you know, pictures are going around of him at Charlie's tournament and, you know, Sam soccer tournaments here and there. So he's able to be, you know, a dad somewhat again, which is most important,

you know, he's still as sarcastic as well as himself, so nothing's changed there. So I'm glad to see that he's, he's still chipper as always. I have long called for golf fans to just give the golf a break when it comes to Tiger, but they're going to kill me if I don't ask. Does golf enter the, does golf enter the conversation as to what the future that might be, close near to a more short term at home? I don't know. I mean, I know that he's going to try. I just, I don't see, I don't see him ever playing if he can't play well. You know, he doesn't strike me as a guy that's like, you know, he's played at home and he's shooting a bunch of 75 and 76s and he's like, all right,

I'm gonna go give Augusta a try this year. Like, that's just not really gonna be him. At least, to my understanding, or from what I know of him, you know, he's, I think he knows that, you know, there's a pretty good chance. That was kind of, that might be the last chance he really ever had before that of making another run, but at the same time, I know how determined he is

and I know he's gonna wanna at least try to give something again. I mean, obviously, I hope he does, but at the same time, like I said, kinda after the accident, as long as he can be a dad and be normal with that again, that's the number one priority and the rest is a bonus.

I would say I've officially learned my lesson and I just won't do it again. We'll never call him done. Won't do it. Yeah, I mean it can be a point 0.001, whatever it might be, but gosh, it was definitely point 0.001 at certain times when it came to the back in 2019 happened. So that's all, but I'm with you there. It's kind of like, dude, you've given us golf fans in terms of, you know, just speaking for them, you've given us a lifetime, a career's worth of memories. And you don't know the golf fans, anything else. If you do it for yourself, then that's a different thing.

But for sure. Yeah, I mean, even if it's something like, you know, when he's feeling good again, he just goes and rides around with Charlie at the father's son, you know, it's just something to where he wants to be a dad and enjoy those moments with him and hopefully watch him, you know, potentially be playing it and go watch Sam and her soccer tournaments or she's such, you know,

an athlete and how smart she is to be a part of her life. And it's just, that's what he wants to do. And it's, you know, he's his competitive side, like you said, is not gonna let him just hang it up without at least giving it a try at some point I'm sure. Next up, episode 460 with Jose Maria O'Fable. We talked a lot about Sevy on this podcast this past year. No better perspective on that from one of his best friends.

Episode 460 Jose Maria Olethable. You know, I always ask people who their role model was, you know, I hear Sevy, Sevy, Sevy, Sevy from people all over the world. You know, he was a great friend of yours as we talked about, but why would you say that is? What is it about him that, you know, for a younger generation that didn't get to experience that? How would you describe that?

He was the way he played the game. I mean, he was, he was curious on the golf course. He created shots. He was able to see shots. He was able to execute shots. The rest of us were in the dream of. He could see shots from the middle of the trees. He could see his faces where no one else would see.

He could try to keep both shots that had to go within a square foot between branches and leaves and then try to turn the ball 30 yards or left or right and execute the shots. He would never give up. He would always, if he's best, regardless, again, regardless of how way he would hit the shots or strike the boat. At the end of the day, people knew that sooner or later, in a regular 18-hole bound, they were going to witness, you know, three, four shots or five or even more, that would be worth to be there to see.

I see people that, you know, go and follow Seville and said, well, it was work to go and follow you waiting for just to see those two shots that you hit from the trees or that chip or that bunker shot or whatever. He had such skills, such a touch around the greens. And he's character. You know, he was very likeable. He didn't hide any emotions on the golf course. And I think that that made him really attractive to people, to crowds, to fans.

Next up episode 461 with Mark Brody talking about Stroke's Gain. You don't mind explaining the concept of Stroke's Gain, both for myself and any listeners out there that may not be 100% familiar. Well, the short phrase to summarize Stroke stroke skein is it's progress to the whole measured in strokes. And I think the best way to understand that is with an example. If you're on the T on a difficult par of four, the average strokes to hold out might be 4.2 for this 450 yard hole. So instead of thinking of yourself as being 450 yards away, think of yourself as being 4.2 strokes away from

the hole. And so an average swing, an average shot would move you one stroke closer to the hole. So you take one swing off the tee, and if you get to 3.2 strokes away from the hole, you're doing average. If you hit a short drive off into the rough, you're not going to be 3.2, you might be 3.5 strokes away, and that's three tenths of a stroke worse than average, or your stroke's gain is minus 0. point three where you pipe a drive 300 yards down the

middle of the fairway then you start off 4.2 strokes away from the hole and after that you might only be three strokes away from the hole so in one swing you've gotten 1.2 strokes closer, which means your strokes gained is 0.2. So in order to measure strokes gained, it's progress to the whole measured relative to a benchmark, which is usually the PGA tour benchmark, but if you're an amateur golfer, it could be a scratch mark or it could be a benchmark for an 80 golfer. And it just quantifies what we know and what we see, whether it's a good shot or a bad shot,

but it quantifies it in terms of these fractional gains and losses. I think things really clicked for me in the last year and a half or so I've gotten to play a decent amount of golf with many tour professionals. And I find myself in matches with them. And I'll hit a good drive down the fairway and they will hit one 20 to 25 yards further than me

and in a better angle. And learning how to keep up with them when they have that advantage on me has been maybe the best lesson to learn in strokes gained, right? If you're just out there playing by yourself, you hit a great drive right down the middle of the fairway. You might, you know, you don't have that great shot to compare it to, you know, as to what a true gain off the tee looks like.

And I don't know, that was kind of a light bulb moment that went off for me. But one thing I wanted to ask, and I don't know this, when I'm watching TV, when I'm watching golf on TV, what are some examples of perfectly average shots, shots that gain zero strokes, lose zero strokes. Let's say, you know, it could be an example of a T shot, a shot from 150, a shot from 100 yards. What would you say the benchmark is for a lot of the shots that we see on TV?

Roughly speaking, a shot from 150 yards in a fairway, if a pro puts it to 23 feet, that's about average. And some people think that's that's horrible. It's like, no, no, they're they're they're much better than that. And they said, no, no, they're not. From 200 yards, if they put it to 30 feet, that's that's an average an average shot. There's a misconception that, you know, these pros are so good that from a hundred yards they're always within 10 feet and it's just not not true so Stroke's gain I think helps you get some

Intuition about how good are good shots and how how bad are bad shots and it also goes the other way that you could be an amateur golfer in your 60 yards away in the fairway and a pinnest cut on the right side of the green and you miss by about 10 feet to the right and you put it into the sand. You say well I only miss by 10 feet right on my target but dumping that 60 yard shot from the fairway into the sand you're losing about three quarters of a stroke. And stroke scheme really helps you to think, you know, pay more respect to hazards. Next up is Tom Whitney from episode 465 talking about his interesting background and how he made his way to the corn fairy tour.

2010 is when I graduated. That season I had actually cracked the top 25 in the individual rankings on golf week or golf statter whatever that is. So that was when I kind of realized that okay I'm gonna eventually try full-time golf as a career path. Now when you graduate from the academy you also owe a number of years service back. That's not a bad thing. I mean, you graduate debt-free from the academy and then you have a guaranteed job for five years. To me, that's pretty darn cool. I graduated in May of 2010 as and my specialty was a nuclear missile operator.

So I headed out to training in Santa Barbara, California and learned everything about the Minuteman 3 weapon system and what we're in charge of is sending the launch command if the president gives us the order. And obviously to this date we've never had to do that from one of our silos. But then the other day-to-day stuff is routine tests, exercises, routine maintenance. We have unexpected maintenance. We have security alarms that go off, whether it's from earthquakes across the world. I mean, I kid you not when when they have those seven point earthquakes over out in Japan and Indonesia and all that like our

vibration sensors on our missiles go off because of the vibrations. So yeah, so we can get into alarm and we'll see it on all we'll see the reading on all of our missiles. You can turn on the news and then you'll see, oh, yep, there was a seven point earthquake halfway around the world. Is that a big sigh of relief when you see the earthquake then? Is that, or, you know, does it ever feel routine at that point? Or does everyone feel like, okay, this is it, this is it? No, it's pretty routine because yeah, I mean

Think God that you know, we haven't had to offensively use These missiles ever our silos have never been attacked You know as much responsibility as there is in this job It is pretty routine because if things were to escalate there are a lot of Levels you have to go through to do so so it's not like in a second that you're gonna be launching a missile and And you didn't know about it next up episode 463 with Peter Costas talking about the evolution of professional golf evolution of equipment What not again episode 463 golf swings how would golf swings be different? How would the how would that have changed the game when we're not in this post, you know,

ProV1 equipment boom. Do you see what I'm getting at? Yeah, I do, but I don't think, I don't think the golf swing would have changed just because of Trackman or launch monitors. Some individual players may have changed certain things in their swings, but I don't know if this is something

that I've studied for 50 years. The evolution of the golf swing throughout time and until around 1990, 1995, it evolved because of changes in golf course design and golf course condition that the players faced. And equipment changes. Now, under equipment, you can go all the way back to the 1800s where guys played him in boots and tweed suits and had to bend their left arm. They had no range of motion because their clothing was so restrictive. To hickory shafts, to steel shafts, to graphite shafts, you know, to featheries, to God of Purchase, to Ballata, to Probe One, all of these things interacted, right? Everybody's golf swing evolved basically because golf course designed

back in the day, we just saw it at Rural St. George. You play a lot on the ground, right? Not so much up in the air because of the wind and so on and so forth. Then, then along comes architecture changes where Trent Jones and others put bunkers in front of greens. And now you had to start putting the ball up in the air. And so along comes Jack Nicklaus. Up until then, most players had a low trajectory, low launch, high spin trajectory to keep the ball down out of the wind and so on and so forth. We had the 1.62 ball in the rest of the world and the 1.68 ball in America.

You can go back and say part of the reason why Europeans and worldwide golfers have caught up to American golfers in terms of production as a player is because they got rid of that small ball. And they are all forced to play the big ball and they had to change their golf swings accordingly. That's really where the evolution of the golf swing took place. Equipment changes, golf course condition and golf course design changes, and then along comes Tiger. I go, I circle back to the beginning. Now there were some guys back in the day like Frank

Strophachi who is the grandfather of our current US amateur champion, right? And he would carry weights around and he was one of the first ones to actually lift weights and play golf. Mike Austin was another guy, big, big long long hitter. But it wasn't, it wasn't mainstream until Tiger came along. And people started seeing what Tiger could do with a golf club and a golf ball and his workout ethic and all of a sudden fitness became, it came to the forefront in preparation for a golf tournament. And so now the golf swing changed again because fitness changed the body. So you can say that your body's part of your equipment,

I suppose, but fitness and strengthening and becoming more flexible and better aerobic conditioning to keep your heart rate down. And all of those things Tiger brought along and as a consequence you know guys were going to the gym at six o'clock at night rather than going to the bar and that's where the evolution of the golf swing has taken place and is now set up for what we we have in the in the 2020s. Virtually everybody works out. Everybody's got custom made equipment.

Now they got launched monitors to to maximize that equipment and make sure it's fit correctly for them. And it's becoming more science and less art. Is there is there more room for science in golf? Like how much more optimized and how much further can things get? It you know, whenever you're in the current, it always feels like you're up against the cutting edge of technology and that it can't get much better or much deeper.

But do you see it, I mean, I don't see it stopping, but how much further can things get? I don't know that they can get much further along. I do really think that we're up against the edge, except for the fact that now what's happening. I do really think that we're up against the edge, except for the fact that now what's happening, and this is one of the untold secrets about the evolution of our current equipment in terms of golf clubs in the early 90s, 80s. I mean, it was rare when you saw Nick Faldon, who was six foot four, come along and play well. Greg Norman was, I don't know what he was, six,1, 6-8. Most of the players were 6-feeder or less.

Now, you're hard pressed to find anybody that's not 6-feeder over. And last week in the open, we had a guy of 6-foot-9. equipment is so much lighter, so much stronger, that bigger people can be fit correctly to be able to play golf properly. Back in the day, you had George Archer, right? Six foot five, but the clubs, the steel shafts were so heavy, you couldn't make them too long because they were unwieldy and you couldn't control them. So he had a scrunch, six foot five, down into five foot nine. And it's a consequence. He tore up his body. I don't know how many surgeries he had a scrunch 6'5 down into 5'9 and it's a consequence. He tore up his body. I don't know how many surgeries he had over the course of his career, but it had to be in double numbers for sure. Now you got guy 6'4, 6'5, 6'7 setting up to a

guy to a golf ball and looking just like a guy that's 5'10. So that's where I think bigger, stronger, faster is going to come from the athletes who are playing golf now because the equipment allows for that. So if you got bigger, stronger, faster players playing your sport, you can't blame the golf ball for it going farther. You know, you got a you got an engine with with a thousand horsepower instead of an engine with 350 horsepower. Next up episode 467 with Harris English. I hate calling an episode surprising, but man, he really kind of surprised me in this episode, just a fantastic interview. Episode 467 with Harris English.

What did you hear out there and what's the atmosphere like? Yeah, I do enjoy playing with Bryson first off. I really enjoy seeing the shots he can pull off and just how he plays golf, because it's so much different than the way I play golf. His thought process is so much different. So I enjoy seeing that part of it, but it has been a little bit of a circus.

It was a little bit of a circus on Memphis. If people don't like falling Bryson, if they don't like the way he is, then don't then don't follow him. What I don't like is people following Bryson and heckling him, trying to mess him up. That's where this whole golf gambling thing can get a little dicey is if a guy is betting against Bryson, he's going to go out there and try to mess him up the whole day and that's not that fair. But I mean, I get it. I get that, yes, he has probably put someone on this himself.

He's said some things that he shouldn't have said, but it's just tough. He's in a tough spot right now. I wish he would come to the media and kind of tell him and be honest with what he's going through and it affects him. I didn't like that he blew off the media last week. I don't think that helps him a lot. But I wish him and Brooks would put this to bed and they can let it go and then the fans can let it go and get back to golf fans being golf fans and and join golf and pulling for guys and not having this heckling this bullying going on that's going on because it sucks and it's it's a little bit distracting obviously playing with them as well.

And you feel bad for him and it shouldn't be like that. Next up episode 478 bones back on talking Ryder Cup and talking Tiger. What's it like clubbing a guy at a Ryder Cup? Is there just an automatic adrenaline adjustment you have to make right for the get-go? It's a great question because, certainly, I worked almost my entire caddy career for Phil and he was a massive adrenaline guy.

So when he got into these really big spots, whether it's the masters of the Ryder Cup, he all of a sudden would just start hitting the ball much further than he normally would with his irons. But from what I've seen now over the years, not everybody's like that. Tiger certainly not. I was blown away one year where I read an interview that Tiger did one year when he hit an incredible shot into 15 at the Masters. He basically said, you know, I hit a five iron, it was 222 yards down the hill and I knew it was a five iron because I had the exact same yardage in a practice round. And I thought to myself, isn't that fascinating? So, you know, it's Tiger basically telling us, he hits the ball exactly the same distance on Sunday of the Masters as he did in the Tuesday

or Wednesday practice round. And, you know, everybody's different. And again, certainly for Phil, he was as jacked up as he could ever possibly be. And, you know, there's some great stories about when he played with Keegan at that 2012, you know, Ryder Cup Keegan was the same way where literally they got on the third or fourth hole one day in a match and Phil told Higan in front of the guys We were playing against Heyman wait for the green to clear on this par four because I think you can drive down the green And it was like, you know, probably a 390 yard par four and I thought well that was me to maybe Phil Just kind of trying to get the other guys heads a little bit and to Phil's friend he even got up there He was so jacked up. He drove it in the green side bunker. They got up and down made birdie in one the hole

So again, you get these guys where you just get this you know adrenaline and energy pumping through them and All of a sudden it's a completely different animal in terms of what you're dealing with as a caddy Next up another bones clip from episode 478 talking about why some players thrive in the rider cup There's put too much pressure on themselves. I'm trying really hard to understand it. I don't think I can get all the way there where, you know, if I'm watching Dustin Johnson and Ian Polter teed up in the same tournament, the very few golf courses, am I choosing Polter over DJ on?

But like, if they're having play ahead and head to match play, I feel totally different about it. And I just can't put my finger on why. For somebody who's seen it up close and personal, why would you say that is? I would say it's the it up close and personal. Why would you say that is? I would say it's the affinity for the big stage. I mean, certainly, you know, in the Ryder Cup, you're playing 80% of your matches if you

play all five with a partner. And in my opinion, there have been some world-class players over the years that haven't necessarily got it done to the degree they should in stroke play events, but play like absolute world beaters at the Ryder Cup because they've got a guy over there that has their back that can certainly back them up in the best ball portion of things, but in alternate shot can kind of put their arm around and say, that's okay, let's get him on the next hole. I think for some guys that really, really plays into this, I think aggression is a big part of it.

I think that some guys really, we all hear these discussions on television about what you're aiming at and the dis and the that, and let's take it at that NBC sign behind the green. These guys have this opportunity at the Ryder Cup far more so to play right at the flag, and I think that suits some guys again better than others. I always thought that Tiger, even though his Ryder Cup record more so to play right at the flag. And I think that suits some guys again better than others. I mean, I always thought that, you know, Tiger, even though his Ryder Cup record isn't what he would want it to be, you know, he was a much more aggressive player than people, you know, probably gave him credit for in terms of going out there, getting it done and, you know, getting his hands on the trophy. So, you know, it's certainly different, but I also think, you know, one thing about

about match players, it's much more of a big stage mentality. And you get a guy like Polter, obviously, and he loves the attention. He knows he's on worldwide television. He knows if he knocks in this 50 footer, everybody's going to go berserk and he's that much likely, that much more likely to do it as a result. Some guys, you know, shrink a little bit of thought of that stuff. Next up episode 484 with Scottie Schaeffler talking about his singles match against John Rom.

What was the thought process between you going out fourth? Is that something that was discussed? I mean, what's your reaction when you see you draw world number one? I mean, we, none of us were very involved in what order and who would go where with the captains I think they kind of had an idea of what they wanted to do and they kind of just went with it You know, we trusted the captains with all the pairings and matchups and whatnot and kind of just did what we were told For the most part I mean they they knew what they wanted to do and it worked out well and there was no reason for us to change that going into Sunday All the guys were pretty excited that I got the rom pairing.

You know, we had a great week leading up to them, but I was very excited to go out and play them. It's nice. I like the challenges playing rom, just because he's such a wonderful player, major champion, and I enjoyed the challenge. Did you feel the value of rest at all in that matchup? I mean, you played two matches leading up to that.

He played four on paper. It just looked like the perfect possible situation for the US team. Yeah, I mean, there was something to getting that proper rest. But at the same time, I think a lot of us were worn out. Anyways, it's mentally draining, especially playing in front of the home crowd.

Like, my heart was racing just watching the guys anyways. And so even those times where I wasn't playing, I was still, you know, we showed up at the first T to watch. We watched the rest of the matches. And you know, sometimes the waiting game is just as tough as going out there and playing. So I wouldn't say there's too much to it. Ram seemed pretty fresh on Sunday,

as well as, you know, DJ did, having played all five matches. Well, it stuck out to me in the press conference afterward. How how much your team wanted to emphasize? How much it meant to them that you went up out there and and put up that kind of lead early on. What what did that mean? What did that mean to you to hear? Hear your team kind of go out of their way to to point that out in the press conference.

Yeah, I mean that that meant a lot to me. Like I said, the night before the guys were excited. I mean, we were all sitting in the physio room, getting our work done. It was like 8.30 night when the pairings finally came out. And I think DJ showed me the pairing. And then my wife came running the room. She thought it was really fun.

That was playing Ram as well. I think he had such a good week up to that point. I think we all wanted a little piece of it on Sunday just because he had gotten the better of us for the first four matches basically. I think or they three and one going into that match going into Sunday. And I think that was when Bryson and I have with him and Tirol on Friday afternoon. And so I thought it was good momentum for the team. You don't ever want to look up at the leaderboard and see a bunch of blue, especially when we have that big of a lead. And when I went out, it didn't feel like there was a ton of red on the board.

And so for me, to kind of jump out there and get up on Ram earlier, I'm sure it was a big boost for the team. I know Jordan told me that him and Boog were in their watch and getting very excited just watching me make some birdies on them. And I was just glad it gave the team some momentum. Next up episode 488 with Dr. Bob Rotella, man, I could have talked to this guy for hours and hours. He basically gives you a lesson within this that would probably cost us a lot of money. And he gave it gave it away to all the listeners for free episode 488, Dr. Bob Rotella.

What about even going even further down the ring to things like the YIPS? I'm wondering if you've worked with people specifically on YIPS like things. What is actually happening when it comes to somebody having the YIPS on chipping, putting anything like that, even other sports, I think you've worked with people on this. What's the coaching like there? Is it any different than any of the concepts we've talked about to this point? Well, people make up all kinds of stuff about the YIPs. They love to make it sound scientific, and complicated, and they love to use big words. The bottom line is when you have the YIPs, your heads in a bad place. I mean, you're thinking about missing, or you're thinking about your hands,

or you're thinking about having the YIPs. I mean, you're kind of predicting it, to your brain, that means, come on, make my handshake because I want them to. The brain just takes what you get. If all you're doing is thinking about where you want it to go, you're not going to have the yips. But some people don't want to acknowledge that their brain is caving into those kinds of thoughts. And it used, you know, maybe you had a bad experience, I'm not denying that. At some point, you have to get past it.

And with putting, I would say today, we've come up with so many different grips, and then I would say probably the arm lock, and people can argue over it being legal or whatever. but I mean, it's probably solved a lot of putting problems and a whole lot of different grips have. I don't see as many people yippin with their punters today as I did 20 years ago. I see a lot more people yippin with pitching as they've cut the turf tighter and tighter. You

still see some people with it with the driver, but I mean, it's basically if you got to get your mind empty and quiet. And it's when you're yippen, you're very busy and it's filled with really bad thoughts, either about the outcome or about your body, not functioning. Now, are there people, like certainly with people after 50? I mean, there's a lot of people on various medications that might be adding to it. There might be people drinking way too much coffee or mountain dew or whatever.

But by and large, it's, you've got to get people to be honest and you've got to get a really good mental routine. So a lot of people have a physical routine, hoping it will get your mind in the right place, and it doesn't. So you have to get a really good mental process that's predictable before the round starts. But I mean, I can't say as I spend the majority of my time, I just assume never even talk about the Yips. I think there's way too much conversation about it.

It ought to be like they'd like to present the Yips like it's something that owns me. Instead of I'm thinking that it's poorly right now about my putty and or my pitching. Right now, you know, whether it's because you made it too complicated technically, or because you're worried about the turf or the lie, and you know, I call it a lot of golf junk that you hear. And you have to get rid of all that golf junk and just see the shot. Because little kids can do it. I mean, you think about it. Pudding and pitching and chipping, eight and ten year old kids can do it. I mean, it's a pretty. Pudding and pitching and chipping, eight and 10-year-old kids can do it. I mean, it's a pretty simple task.

I can find some skills that are more complicated, but those are pretty simple. But if you get scared of it, which is basically at many, God, when I'm scared, I can look pretty bad. When my head's in a bad place, I can look like I don't have any skill. And, you know, so you've got to get people to be really honest about it, but the tendency for educated people is to start thinking more rather than thinking less. And it doesn't matter if it's a catcher in baseball who can throw it the second base on

a dime if someone's stealing because they don't have time to think, but throwing it back to the pitcher, they think that they start worrying about throwing it into the outfield. Or the second baseman who can't throw it the first but you put them in third base And he can throw the first base because it's not so bad if I make a bad throw from third But if I make a bad throw from second this is gonna look ridiculous or embassable to the free throw line You know because this would really be bad if I can't if I shoot an air ball from the free throw line I've worked with bowlers with bowling, it's like in a throw strike, you have to roll the ball over the edge of the gutter.

And if I get a national TV and throw gutter balls, man, it's going to be really embarrassing. So every sport has something that's really simple that makes us feel uncomfortable. And sometimes when I do talks, I tell you, let me just talk to the men here for a moment. Everyone goes, what do you mean? Well, I just want to explain to the men,

when you miss an easy chip shot or an easy putt, you don't get neutered. In other words, you don't lose your male parts. I've never seen it happen. It's just something you made up in your head. And I said, you don't usually see women who think they're gonna lose their femininity with their short game. But you see a lot of men who think they're going to be less of a man. And I go, you know, it doesn't happen.

Next up, episode 486, man, this was a fun one with Chris DeMarco, of course, talking about Tiger Woods. There's probably no golf shot. I've seen more often in the last 20 years than the chip on 16. There's probably no person that paid a greater price receiving into that chip than you. What, do you look away when that chip comes on now? Do you get asked about it still every day? What's your reaction to see that? You know, at first it was kind of,

you know, I was like, wow, you know, I can't believe you made that part of me. Now you look back and you think about how what the historic value of that chip is to Augusta. And if they show the full clip, I'll be in next clip all the time because I'm walking up on the green and watching that chip come down to Hill. I mean, I had the best view of anybody. I had a better view than Tiger who was kind of on the back part of the green looking at it.

I was watching the thing come straight down at me into the hole. And I'm just, I mean, I'm kind of blowing like stopped, you know, and, and, you know, it just, we all know the end it it's stops in the edge and perfect Nike commercial and drips in but you know you look back at that and if it was 18 and that what happened I I think I probably would have more you know if I was Greg Norman watching Larry me my chip in on me I think that would you know would get me anyway like that but you know watching it since it was 16 and he went two up the night, you know,

I came back and won the next two holes to get back to even with him getting a playoff, I think that, you know, it's not that bad. Yeah. As I say, because in match play, you know, you're, you're supposed to be trained. I know it's not match play, but you're supposed to be trained for, to be prepared for somebody to hold it from anywhere. Yeah. Could you have possibly been prepared for him to hold that shot? Well, you know, it's funny you say that because it was in 04. I was working with Geo Valiente and we worked specifically on expect,

the unexpected. So I worked really great at Whistling Straits. You know, obviously I lost in the play up there and then to go right to 2005, I was thinking the same exact thing. So in my mind, I had kind of played out every scenario that could have happened and albeit it wasn't a lot of situation in my head about him chippin' in. I definitely crossed my mind and then when it went in, it definitely was surprising, but I was just a teeny bit prepared for it, so I was able to just kind of focus on my putt

and try to make that. You hit a good putt. I did, I caught the left edge and just messed, yeah. Next up from episode 486 is Podrig Harrington talking about how European innovation has forced the Americans to innovate as well. When it comes to the right of cope and Europe has to be proud of this, we have pushed the US so hard over the years that they not alone care about for everything that we have innovated in the game of golf to get as good as the right of cope. The US guys have now are doing it. There's no...

Copied it. There's the word you've been using. I said copied, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, you know, every little thing whether it's the stats or they know what we're doing, they've got their formula right, they know they can see the difference, you know, you go back years ago where you say, oh, we'll just throw the balls up in the air. Our players are so good. I was even with the stats because our stats guys would be talking about this too. The way to get the most successful format result is to try and pair your fourth best team against their best so that your first second, third place, their second, third, fourth.

And the US did that every day. They tried. They never, they, you know, they always, their best team never led out, number one, they were always trying to do that. You know, you can see how they prepared in advance, how they, you know, they done the work. They're trying hard. And, you know, Europe has to be very proud that we have,

we have pushed them into a corner that they care about this right-of-coupe. And you remember when I started playing the right-of-coupe 20 years ago, yeah, just over 22 years ago, if you remember, we were talking about payments for the right-of-coupe. Yeah, and then you, was there a future to the right-of-coupe? Do we want to be playing this thing? Why are we doing this? You know? It's not like that anymore is it? No, you know, this is every two years This is the biggest thing in golf and you know Europe has driven the US to the point

We have pushed them over the edge and unfortunately I did say this earlier in some ways we poked the bear Unfortunately, I did say this earlier, in some ways we poked a bear. Next up, episode 475 with Luke Donald talking about the rider cup. I've always felt this, you know, when it comes time to, you know, no matter who the favorite is, you know, what team, what guys are being rolled out on each team. It felt like Europeans were always there to thrive, and the Americans were there not to lose. And I felt like they played with a pressure that was just different, and you guys always look like, maybe it's just because you're winning, but you look like you were having fun with it, embracing the pressure, and it elevated your play where it was the opposite on the American

side. I'm wondering if that is accurate to how you felt, how you feel competing in the Ryder Cup, and what you would attribute that to if so. I pretty much agree with you. I think Americans always favor it some paper. I mean they always have field a stronger team. World rankings wise, they outtrump us pretty handily most years on the Ryder Cup and that's why we we feel like we're underdogs Most of the time, you know, and I think that can that was expectations on the on the US soldiers shoulders can Can weigh on them? obviously the record in

It for Europe versus US since going back to the mid 80s is very much in favor of Europe and I just feel like they feel like they should be winning, they should be winning more, that record should be more equal or more to their side and that expectation and pressure. Again, it can make you feel like you're playing not to lose, right? And that's not a a great way to approach anything in life, whether it's goal for what not. So, again, we kind of go in there, feeling like underdogs, but also loving the pressure of a rider cup and knowing that if we come together as a team, we can be victorious, because we've shown that in the past. So we have a great record on our side and we can just kind of play a little bit freer maybe than the US at times.

Next up a couple clips from episode 498 with Andy Gardner from the PGL. A couple of these are just kind of merged together talking about them not being competitive threat and precedence for changes in professional golf and whatnot. Again, episode 498, I highly recommend this episode with Andy Gardner from the Premier Golf League. We are not a competitive threat. We would like to benefit the entire membership

and we'd like to do this in a non-breakaway form. Hence, we're not a competitive threat. Now, I've been encouraged by various players and told over the last three months the Bound to talked to you eventually. That might well be the case, and we have an audience that patience. As we've demonstrated over the years,

I absolutely fundamentally believe that the solution that we have devised in the last eight months is the ideal solution. It addresses all of the issues that were raised in the best possible way. And I genuinely think it is in the best interest of the sport and of the existing members of the tour. It will ultimately be their choice and we won't deviate from our path until we're convinced that the opportunity has been understood, considered. And if it is then rejected by the members of the PJ

Tour, then fair play. There are a handful of precedents for the league in sport. I'll repeat it because I think it bears repeating. The best precedent for what we're doing is actually the PJ Tour. It's kind of crazy. had a crazy. It's as are as it sounds, it is deja vu all over again. Now that's given that golf is regarded by most as a very traditionally based enterprise. The last major change being going from 22 events to 22 holds to 18. That was a precedent for the Premier League over here, the EPL, because 22 clubs broke away from the Football League. It was slightly different with F1,

but F1 was effectively, now you've got into it, you might recognize the names, but Berneckelston was a team owner. And if I remember my history correctly, he gathered another four or five team owners around. And F1 prior to 1981 was controlled by the FIA and was run almost exactly as golf has run today, which was the sanctioned model. So if you wanted to put on a Formula One championship race, you would approach the FIA and say, we've got a track or we're going to build one. We would like that circus to come to town. And the FIA would possibly say, eventually, yes, there's a slot in the schedule we can give you this,

we can give you this weekend, but it's up to you. As in, the purse is up to you, the field you're responsible for securing, you actually will probably have to do your own production in terms of the broadcast content. And that ended up with the situation which is again analogous to go off today. So you didn't know who was going to turn up. Now, I was listening, I was brought out watching Formula One. And I've got to say, it started to leave me a little cold,

probably five or six years ago. I am massively into it again this year. And I think we all probably can guess. I mean, I was listening to it on the radio yesterday and I had, no hairs standing up on my arms with the attempts and then the suggestion that for staff enforcing Hamilton off the track had been something that would result in a penalty. And then the, we're not even looking at it, et cetera. And then the overturning, I mean, Hamilton off the track had been something that would result in a penalty and then they were not even looking at it, etc. And then the overt... I mean, that was just brilliant. Now, yeah, you can't generate that type of engagement within golf, but you can, that wasn't just the move.

It was the fact that it was between those two guys and it was everything that had gone on between those two guys, and it was everything that had gone on this season, the previous penalties, the creation of the personality of those drivers. The job they've done is exceptional. The move, when Liberty took it over to we're creating 18 Super Bowls. Just brilliant, because yes, they should be an event. Now, this goes all the way back to what Bernie Eccleston and his fellow team owner said to the FIA, and they said,

if we want the world to watch this, we have to guarantee the best possible product we can, we can, we can't. Next up, episode 494 with golf course architect, Mike Diverreeze talking about giving players options. As a golfer you have to think hey you know I can't execute the shot that normally execute here because I can't do that and if you've got an opportunity or space or an alternative landing area lay up or and

the other turn you know hey I have an opportunity to really go for it right here because of what's happening and how I'm playing today, et cetera. That puts the owners on the player and engages them and really gets them excited about that haul or that day or the golf shot. Any of those elements that you can put together makes it more and more exciting and fun for a better round of golf and something you want to go back and try again. So those those great courses that you play where you get off 18 you're like I want to go right away I want to go now that's what you're searching for right you don't want to like get done and go well that was horrible

I want to have 14 beers because I just can't handle it. That was that was too tough or whatever. But if they're like a golf course can be difficult. But if you had really fun shots and you had opportunities to try stuff that maybe you don't get to try elsewhere or that maybe they sort of tempt you to try and maybe you shouldn't try. That's a whole nother category of things we could talk about. But that's engaging the golfer and that makes it fun every day. Next up episode 496 with Justin Thomas talking about the Ryder Cup. What was the process like? This being you as a leader of this team coming back, this is your second Ryder Cup, but I kind of want to know what the what the player to

captain conversations process is like in filling out six spots. Half the team need to be filled out by captain's picks. I want to know when that started and how that kind of worked. Yeah, I'm trying to think of when it really would have started. I don't remember like a specific time. I mean, I would, you know, sometime early, early summer, spring, you know, whatever it was. But, um, the, I mean, it was, it was bizarre because, you know, like when we were texts, I'm like, it's, it's exactly what you think. Like every, and that's the

thing is that people are, it's, it's so funny reading what people are saying online versus, you know, knowing what's going on. And it's like, well, you know, this could happen. This person's, this is these stats. It's like, but is he going to go with this guy? And it's like, well, why are you, why are you overthinking this that much? Well, in the past, the US teams have not always done what, you know, let's get, you know, young guys on a good course fit has not always been the, but the, yes, yeah, but I would say the way that like, we have scar tissue. The way, the way that the points and the rankings and everything worked out, It wasn't like you were you were having to jump to a 17 or 18 to get this young guy or get whatever. You know it was it was kind of all at least at the end. It was all right in front of you.

It was it was great conversation. I mean I think that dinner we had a dinner on Wednesday or something of Atlanta the tour championship the six guys that qualified, just talking, kind of just being transparent with the captains and talking about what we all wanted. And we're all on very similar pages. And I think most importantly is that we all were very confident of really any of the picks that were options. It was like, we were so fortunate. It's like, oh shoot, do we pick the 20th ranked player in the world? The 23rd ranked player. Like it was, you know, we were very fortunate to have such great experience or at least in terms of playing good golf and big tournaments as options. So it was, but all of us had the same sort of method or mindset that were like strict. Like you've, you've captained teams before and you've done them well and you've been a part of these and you've played in these. I'm like, you, you were the besides Tiger.

I mean, not that I've played that many teams, but he's probably the most recent whatever player and he's just been a part of him, not that long ago. I was like, you know how to do this. Don't overthink it. Don't do anything because you feel like you have to do it. Like your job is to get the 12 best guys that we can get in this tournament. And you got to do that at the end of the day, whether it's what we agree with or not, but you know how we all feel. And it was, we're all obviously ecstatic. And I think proved it when we got there. And that's the thing is this was, I know,

you can only compare it to the one team that you've been on, which is 2018 team. But I mean, 17-11 in France, the loss to the biggest beating in Ryder Cup, modern Ryder Cup history. Something changed in between then. Part of me still thinks it's, you know, we got to play better golf, but a part of me thinks that the environment of the team, I hate referring to it as the team room, which is kind of a metaphor for just the general team chemistry, but I think this is kind of, I think, you know, in almost a decade of obsessing over this event, I'm only now starting to understand how that contributes to good golf.

And I'm wondering if you could speak to that at all, just the comfort level between the two teams, in what changed in the last three years? Yeah, I mean, Team Room is essentially just saying the chemistry of the team. I mean, it's a very just big way of saying everything involved. And it's, I mean, it was, like you said, I've only put, it was only my second one. So it was, it's not like I had a lot to compare to, but it was. I mean, we had that practice

session. It was some straights that week before. I mean, it was like, everybody came, the caddies came, the vice captains came. It was like, it was, it was extremely impressive. I mean, strict was blown away away like how into it everybody was and how dedicated everybody was. And I mean, I was too. It was a big deal. And it just seemed like everybody understood and truly felt like this was a chance

that we have the potential to not, I don't want to say send a message or set a precedent, but just get things going for the US and do it on our home soil and do it with a very new team and a lot of guys that could be playing in a lot of our other cups in the future. And I think we just all were excited. We were hungry. We were determined, but it was such a laid back fun week and to be perfectly honest, I think, it's probably

going to sad sound bad to say, but COVID helped just with not having as many functions and not having as many things to do because I mean, we do get pulled and get asked to do a lot of things that week and having less to do, I think was more of a normal atmosphere and tournament week for us where guys could do a little bit more of the normal routine. I think that's great. You shouldn't want us to be anything outside of our comfort zone for what is supposed to be our biggest and most important event every two years. So it was great. It just truly was truly was, I mean France was great. We had an unbelievable time for as much as we got our ass kicked. It was very different. It was,

it wasn't as much time together just because of that. You know, it was a lot of things that we were doing. We were driving a lot of different places and it just was kind of like wake up and you see the guys you're playing with, you go play, you go do two hours of media, you go take pictures for this long, you go here, you hurry up, get treatment, you take your 40-minute car ride back, you hurry up, have dinner, go to bed and do it all again the next day. So it was different for many reasons, but definitely for the better. Next up episode 495 with Lee Jinson, I love this talking about how equipment is evolved and kind of why Tiger was able to do things that other people can't do

and maybe how that changed over the years. It's easy to say now, but at that time, I mean, it was, yeah, I could see a lot of, you know, some of the more grizzled veterans to say, I'm like, this is not a slam dunk but this guy is gonna dominate out here. Right. Yeah, our number one player, Nick Price had a great run

and he'd won 15 to 20 tournaments over four or five year period. We know Greg Norman was great and contended a ton in one 20 tournaments. So most of us didn't think that winning seven or eight times a year for a long time was really doable. Nobody was coming close to doing that. But we found out differently quickly and we found out that he was thinking on a whole different level and What do you have a go-to Tiger story or do you remember like the first time that you that you played with him?

Well, I played quite a bit with him at all worth when he first termed pro the golf course had been redone now But I do remember driving in we played quite a bit and the one particular more on driving in he's on the ninth fairway And he's getting ready to hit a second shot. I didn't know he was shooting 59. He played the back first, finished on the front and I nearly played the horn on in the middle of the swing. This is right before the masters. Yeah.

When he shot us 59, whatever. So, you know, he probably would have never talked to me again, but there were a couple times. I know Grant Waiten, I were beating him in Omira. And there was enough wind on 17. We couldn't get to 17 green and two. We drove a perfect and get three would right up in front. He's like flared his drive and he's got like 270 in the wind and his at a foot.

Wins is a holiday day team. Reverse to all the bats and we lost and are like, you know, it's just like it would be like playing basketball with Shaq and he just holds the ball up here. You just can't get it and you're just swinging. I'm amazed going back looking at old highlights of what he was able to do with a 1990s golf ball. And you know what I mean? As far as the distance as he was able to hit at the spin he was able to get on the ball,

I mean, that ball was easier to spin back then. But how, I guess I, to frame this into a question, does it seem like the technology evolution in the 2000s actually allowed people to stay closer to him than it would have if the golf ball hadn't really changed as dramatically as it did? Yes. That's the biggest difference is, but I don't know if you, the USGA just tested recently a persimmon wood and today's driver with today's ball. And I don't know these numbers for sure, so somebody doesn't have to email me or write me a letter and tell me I'm wrong. But what I thought it heard was same swing speed dead center hit. It was only eight yards difference. One eighth of an inch off center, person was 56 yards shorter so it was

just the premium on hitting it in the center of the face was much bigger back then and that's part of the reason why guys hit it so far now is there's no fear of missing it so as a kid you swing it hard as you want right from the start and it's a little easier to pick up club pets be when you're doing it from the beginning when you're 50 something and you're trying to figure out a way to swing faster. It's a challenge. I'm still trying.

But yeah, that's the bad as good as I've heard it heard it summed up in terms of watching him wail on balls at the 97 masters. It was like there's a reason why no one else was wailing on it that hard. You could hit it that far if you'd connect one out of eight, but he was connecting seven out of eight and no one else could do that.

And, yeah, I mean, obviously, we're talking about the best career ever, but I still wonder what it would look like if things didn't evolve the way that they did evolve. Right, and he spun the ball a ton, and he learned how to manage that, and take the spin off of it and change his swing. I mean, he transformed a lot of parts of his game. We already knew he was tremendously talented and had the drive and

you know, the ability to get out of trouble and get up and down and just do whatever. Just hit whatever crazy shot needed to be had, he could do it. So you can imagine that the equipment made, gave everybody, everybody also chants. So yeah, he would have won 100 tournaments. I don't know. He gave everybody else a chance. So yeah, maybe he would have won 100 tournaments. I don't know. Next up episode 452 with Mike Kaiser, Jr. talking about his beginnings in golf

and how that relates to the golf resorts that he operates now. I want to hear about living in Tasmania and then working with the satlers down at Barnbougal. That's one of the more interesting places I think I've ever been. And how far away from the world did you feel when you were living

in Tasmania? Well, I was certainly out floating on an island in the middle of the nowhere, but I didn't have time to put that in perspective. They worked me pretty hard. I think I got my first afternoon off after five or six months. So it was an upstart. It was super fun. We were just working around the clock to get the business off the ground and to try to

make it successful. And I just tried to keep my eyes and ears open to learn as much as I could from Richard and Sally, who are brilliant entrepreneurs. Their family became my surrogate family down under. The two of them were great mentors and I just had an incredible year learning from them. And then what did you do at Bannon? What was your involvement at Bannon? So Bannon was, I think I said college, it was probably more, I wouldn't have been college. I started off in the economy and my first summer I did, we had a split shift. So we started

around me about 4.30 a.m. then had a split and came back in the afternoon. So during the split, I worked outdoor services. I worked for Shoe, who you probably know, meeting and greeting our guests. And then after the second shift, I came back to close outdoor services, you know, wrap up. I think that was, let's see, 90 is probably my fresh, fresh when you're of college or senior year of high school. So I worked from a few hours before, son up to sundown and then drank a lot of beer after that and slept for a few hours and did it all over again the next day. It was it was a great summer.

One of the things that I learned was how much more the caddies made than me at the time. But the resort has a wage that's higher than minimum wage, but my dad made an exception for me. So making $473 was less appealing when I came back than caddies. So in following summers at caddies, I'm teasing a little bit about money,

but as a young man, it was nice. But what was wonderful about being with a Cadi was just listening to our guests and understanding what resonated with them. What were the moments in the round that were magical to them and what captivated their imagination? And then from the hospitality perspective,

what were we doing right, what were we doing wrong? Every day was an opportunity to ask, as many questions the guests as I could without irritating them, and to learn as much as possible about our business through the eyes of our guests. So that big takeaway from band and was just that time I had with our customers, generally they didn't know

that I was the son of the owner. And I got a pretty candid look at what we were doing right and what we could approve. So wait, your dad made an exception to pay you less than the wage that you were getting paid but then the rest of the staff? Yes, we're proud of having a resort and dream golf minimum wage that's significantly higher than minimum wage, but it made a special exception for me since I really had no idea what I was doing and didn't deserve more than 473 hours.

Which by the way, dwindles after you pay taxes, I don't know, 473, you know, ends up with, but even after 90 hours, it's not a whole lot. Just enough to buy, you know, some light beer. That is gonna do it for 2021. Can't wait to see you guys back here. Next year, we will be starting out the new year. Ring it in that very first week of the year,

you will find some interview pods and the usual high jinks Sunday recaps as well. Coming back bigger and better than ever next year. Thank you so much for your continued support of this podcast. Cheers. Better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.