No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 510: Tommy Fleetwood

Episode Date: January 5, 2022

Tommy Fleetwood returns to the NLU podcast with a recap of his struggles in 2021, his experiences in the Ryder Cup and a look to what's ahead in the 2022 season as well as his take on the future of the European Tour and the worldwide landscape of professional golf. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to No Laying Up Podcast. Sully here, first interview of 2022 is with our friend Tommy Fleetwood. We've recorded this as you will be able to tell pretty easily on New Year's Eve. Talking about the past year in Tommy's life and golf life, what the future entails and what he's working on and some of the ups and downs he's had in the past couple of years, Ryder Cup, the usual suspects,

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So go check them out and start off 22 with some roback. Without any further delay, here is Tommy Fleetwood. All right, Tommy, we're recording this on New Year's Eve. It's much closer to New Year's Eve on your side of the pond than it is mine. But what's your energy level? As we turn the page into 2022, there's been a crazy 15 plus months of golf,

maybe even more than that. What's your energy level like as we go into the new year? It's good. I've had a nice break, which you always need at some point. It's funny really because the winter and that sort of time off that people can go differently year and year sometimes year, you feel like you're grasping something and you wanna keep working

and you wanna work really hard, sometimes you just wanna break. So you take it as it comes, but I think, I've enjoyed this period of being at home, being with the family. The Christmas vibe is always something that I love. And I've not really done much with golf clubs, but I feel feeling a good place to start the year really.

So all is good. As December and England, a good time to work on your game. Do you have places that you know? I know it's, as I say it, I know it's not a great place, but you have enough access to, I'm sure you have access to whatever you want to, but indoor facilities, what do you do to stay sharp or if anything during the winter months in England? Well, I've done nothing this month, but it's an interesting question to me, because I

always think that it's a hard comparison when kind of, you know, I think people always talk about practice facilities or the conditions or the weather, but then like it's very rare that somebody puts the equivalent amount of work into it in England as they you or affect you or does it not make a difference if you put the work in. So you know, that's something that I guess is, you know, never really looked at as much, but, you know, things are fine. You have that time, you can it balls on a range that there are golf courses that manage to stay in good condition and you can do some practice on them. And it's just, it's just what you want to do like I say I've enjoyed being you know having this time off and I think I've played I've played one and a half maybe two rounds a golf I think since stopping at the DP world so that's a pretty large break but you know you come out of it and you feel pretty fresh actually hit some balls this morning and it felt okay actually I was pleasantly surprised with like I felt quite coordinated when I was hitting him, so that was nice.

Well, it's funny that I always think, you know, it's funny to hear a tour pro say that, because I always think, you know, you take some time off, you come back, you always hit it better than you think you will, but the chipping and putting is what I do. You think that'd be the easy part coming back. It takes me weeks to get my touch back around the greens, but maybe just something about expectations when you take some time off, like you can feel the club come through the zone a little bit better. I really don't know what it is, but it's funny to hear you say that. There's something about it. And I don't know whether you just expect it to be shocking. So you hit with like a nice surprise and you think it's better than what it actually is, but 100% on the short game. And especially, you know, when, when the course is here,

they obviously get a lot slower and softer in the winter. You're kind of, you know, you're chipping with a lot of pace on the ball or landing it in a different spot and when you eventually come to start playing you constantly take and pace off the ball around the greens and just the pace and the difference in shots is so it's like such a change that that does take a bit of time to get used to. I mean, you know, majority of the time 7-9 is a 7-9 and you just got to get used to how it, you know, it goes in the heat or maybe you have to adjust a couple of things and you swing, but the touch and feel

and the way you see shots around the greens is a big difference when you get back at it. Have you been out at Westlanks much during your time at home? We played once. I'm trying to remember if we played nine or eight. I think we played eight-seeing, I was me in Finnow. We just had... I actually played with the Simmons, just for change, and we just had a, we had a knock.

But actually, funnily enough, the course was so dry in such good condition. So that was really good. We played on a really nice morning as well. So that was nice. That place is so underrated. It just, it blows my mind to see top. Yeah, there's so many other like that around that way, just underrated courses that people don't see

that much, but and and especially in this country like on that coast, I mean on on every coast, it'll be the same, but you know, for me, that's the nearest one to me. And stays the place stays so dry and like we played and there was, you know, no puddles like it was so dry underfoot. It's like it's just the best you're going to get this time of year. Well, looking back on this past year, how would you rate your 2021? Not very good. I guess disappointing in many ways in terms of performances, but I think when you have time to sit back and look back, you learn more from the difficult times than

you do from the great ones or when the game is coming easy to you. I think looking back, it's positive in that way. I guess you always have to try and make things into a positive and keep pushing forwards. I was very rarely up there competing on a Sunday for a tournament. I struggled in the biggest events and my game was just never there, there, there abouts and definitely like consistency over four days was never there. So it was tough in that sense. But again, I think you know, you pick things up from those times and you can take them forwards with you and like, you know, I feel good about things going into next season, which is the only way you can look at it really.

Is there, you know, when things aren't going, you know, to plan or as well as you'd like? And I think it is important, you know, to keep in perspective, you know, when you go look at your OWGRPage, it's not Miss Cut, Miss Cut, Miss Cut, Miss Cut that we're talking about here. So it's, it's kind of like your golf was, and if if you know, in no better way to put it mediocre, I think compared to what you would like to consider your best golf to be, but you're not off by a drastic measure. Is it harder to identify what you need to change? Do you see what I'm getting at? Yeah, totally. And I think the hardest thing these days is like you play, I obviously play quite a lot, I play two tours,

but when you step away from the game or all like most things, when you kind of step away, you see a lot more clearly, and when you keep playing and you keep searching for it all the time, you don't quite see things as clear. And the other thing is the standard of golf is ridiculously high at the moment. The players, the strength and depth,

I mean, you look at the top 15, the world these days and the players that are, you know, I feel like it's changed even in the last year or two where there's not, you know, it's so bunched up and the standard is so high and and bunched together and it's it's just getting that way. So when you are struggling and you don't see scores which is the same and the game will always be that way there's going to be times where you find the game easy and there's going to be times when it's just not coming to you at all and you don't see scores and

and those periods are just going to get more difficult to make any kind of ground or you know get sort of back to where you want to be as quickly as possible just because the standards are so high. But definitely when you're there, we can week out. It's so easy to search for something every day, trying to find that little thing that you think is going to make the difference. And it's not that easy to find. Have you found any or do you have any particular things that you know you know you want to work on or fix or you can get as general or specific as you want with that? I think the two biggest issues for me last year were my driving was poor by anyone standards and that has always been a big strength of mine. I'm not one of the longest but I hit it a decent distance and I've always been very accurate off the tee so it's always been quite a big strength of mine and that's been a

struggle and then you know I haven't put it as solid as I have done in previous years so both ends of each goal fall I didn't do that well and I struggled a bit and then scoring becomes hard. And I think when you know you sort of know when there's, you feel like there's bad shots in there and you can even be having a great day. You can be 4-5 under, but always feel like you're on the edge of losing your ball or something. And it always catches up with you eventually when that is the case. And that's just how the year kind of went.

But definitely driving the ball is a massive part of the game for everyone and especially me when that is one of your strengths, you gain a lot of confidence from what you see as one of your biggest strengths. So driving for me is a big key to improving those results in 2022 and putting this, you know, just there's a certain, you know, between six and 12 feet, I just haven't put it well this year at all. And you make big, you know, you make big gains and losses from that distance. And there's a lot of momentum puts that hang around that distance. And that's been a weakness. So I feel like those two things, well, keep, you always want to keep progressing in the other areas of your game, but those two things

definitely attack those straight away. And I think I'll see improvements. Well, and that's just the thing with driving is, it's just a prerequisite in today's game, right? You can't get away, you can't make up for poor driving. That gap is just, you see what Bryson and Rom and a lot of these guys are doing off the tee. And if you're, you know, if you're not long and you're not accurate, you just have, there's no one that succeeds at that level, you know, it's just, yeah, definitely like

the so many players that can dominate across aren't they're off the tee. So. Well, and that's the thing too is, I've said this a million times is people don't, people confuse driving accuracy with the, the stat driving accuracy and fairways hit. Whereas you can be, if you're really long, you can get away with being slightly inaccurate as long as you're staying within the corridors. But if you're not really long, you can't really get away with not being extraordinarily accurate. Would you just, is that fair the way I described that? Yeah, I think so. And there are, you know, there's great examples of players

that don't have to be really, really long that excelling the game. You look at Colin is obviously the immediate obvious example that you would use, amazing extraordinary strengths in his game that he uses to his advantage. You know, you look at Web Simpson was World Number Four. I don't know that long ago. You know, with it, I think he was playing a ton of Wakery's strengths, Abraham Answer these days. You know, there's plenty of players and the game does have a, you know, a big variety of people playing a different strategy

in a different game, which is great. And then I think it's easy to think that you have to it a mile, which isn't always true, but you do have to have some kind of super strength in your game if you're going to be at the very top level consistent. Well, how is, in your words, how did you describe? So you've been as high as ninth in the world and you're currently 40th in the world. What, how big is that gap?

You know, is that, you know, you touched on it there just being the depth, as changed a lot in that time period. But yeah, how big is that gap? You know, is that, you know, you touched on it there just being the depth, as changed a lot in that time period. But yeah, how big is that gap? What would it take for you to get back in the top 10 in the world? Well, we're gonna find out, we'll see. I think, you know, there's two ways of looking at it. There's obviously a very consistent year

with strong results. Obviously, you find yourself where you wanna be. Or the other way is like, you find yourself where you want to be. Or the other way is, like, you know, when a major or two or a couple of huge events in your world ranking climbs very, very high. You know, I've always been, I feel like I've always been a very consistent player. So like I rack, I rack up like results throughout the year. So, you know, I feel like that's just how I always play. But, you know but it's not. It's not a huge gap in terms of what you do on any given day,

but I think the consistency throughout four rounds needs to be there and there's a lot of tremendous performers out there. I think having, it's important to have an all-round game and having everything in order and having everything performing at a decent level to a very high level is where you want to be and how to do it. So obviously, I'm looking into the next year. I want to be climbing back up that world-ranking and get back to where I want to be and where I feel like I can be.

We'll see what it takes. I think I honestly needed a bit of a reminder that you didn't end up retaining your PGA tour card this year. But what does that mean for a player like yourself? You play both tours to start with, your 40th in the world, you're on the Ryder Cup team this year. You're not going to the Corn Fairy tour. Will you be able to get into the US events that you want to be in?

Is that your path to getting your card back and does that change your schedule at all for 2022? Luckily, no, it's not going to change the schedule that much. I think I've already been in contact with quite a few of the tournament hosts and stuff and the event sponsors and quite a few have come back already. So I'm really lucky that I get the invites that I want to off those people, so which is really exciting. And no, the schedule won't change that much.

I actually might end up playing even more. We'll see how that goes. But I think even throughout, like, last year, you know, I've been on the edge of trying to keep my European talk out before, albeit a while ago. And, you know, I've also, you know, you look at it, like, in terms of this season just gone. I've just started this season in a very strong positioning golf. And I, you know, can't phrase it any other way. I lost my full play and right it's on the PJ tour by playing bad golf, poor golf. So, you know, even throughout this season and you get to the last couple of events where I knew I had to play well to try and retain my full status. It wasn't, it's a big deal, but it wasn't that, it wasn't

anywhere near as big as where I feel like I still know whether I keep my card or not, like my game isn't where I want it to be and the way I'm playing isn't going to get me to where I want to be. So that comes first and foremost. I've been a big believer for a long time that if you're playing well, you will, no matter what your opportunities are, you will find yourself where you want to be, you'll make the most of those opportunities. And if you're not, then there's nothing that's going to hide that for you. So I think, you know, I never got too caught up in trying to finish in that top 125, which is easy for me to say. I've always

got playwrights in Europe as well, so I know it's easy for me to say because I know my job overall isn't on the line just by keeping my card, but my focus was totally like, you know, I know that I need to improve whatever happens today or tomorrow. I'm still going to be the same golfer and that golfer still needs to improve these certain aspects of my game to get to where I want to improve whatever happens today or tomorrow, I'm still gonna be the same golfer and that golfer still needs to improve these certain aspects of my game to get to where I want to be, whether I'm, you know, 125th, 120th, 130th,

or 70th in the FedEx Cup, like I still, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and I have to improve the same things and that was sort of where my mindset was and where it still is. Yeah, that's process based rather than than being results based. It sounds like it sounds like you're in a good place with that.

Well, yeah, and probably comes from a bit of experience with it as well. So that's just my outlook on it. Like I say, like I think just having a clear picture of who you are and where you're out as a golfer. Like I say, it doesn't, to me, it didn't really, it doesn't matter what your opportunities are. If you are doing the right things in your play in the game, how you want to play it, like, those opportunities will come and you'll make the most of them. And if you're not doing the right things, then it doesn't matter how many opportunities you have, you know, they're not going to come off for you.

A quick break here to check in with our friends at Golf Blueprint. Listen, we are pretty lucky down here in Florida, especially in January. It's been, it was like 80 degrees this past weekend. You're able to play a decent amount of golf in the winter. But listen, I have been there. I have been in the Midwest, you know, during winters where you cannot play golf. And it's hard to get better at golf. But our friends at Golf Blue Print can help you do that.

They have indoor and outdoor practice plans that help, you give them information. They give you a practice plan that will help you work on the things that you need to work on. Give you a leg up on your competition. And your buddies that you're going to be playing with, you know, once it is nice enough to play golf where you are, you're going to want to wish you did something this winter to get better. There's always something you could do to get better. These guys will help you specifically. It's like having a personal trainer for your golf game. I'm currently trying to get back in the gym. I'm just grabbing machines here and they're all do this machine. I'll do this machine. That's not good for you. When I go to the range, I go sometimes I get lazy and I just, oh, I'll hit a bunch of seven irons. That's not necessarily good for you.

Stick to your golf blueprint. There's a reason why they give you specific drills and games to play either on the pletting green, on the chipping green, on the range. I'm telling you it's worth it. It will make you a better player. Visit golf blueprint.com. Again, they have indoor and outdoor plans

to help get you through this tough time in the golf calendar. Let's, they have indoor and outdoor plans to help get you through this tough time in the golf calendar. Let's get back to Tommy Fleetwood. We'll move on to, of course, my favorite topic being the rider cup. You had mentioned after the rider cup that you guys, you know, maybe weren't as far off as it may have looked. And I kind of see where you're coming from there, but I'm open to your rationale. But what's your, your reasoning, you what's your reasoning behind that conclusion? I think positivity. I think there was no getting away from the fact that it was a perfect storm in the wrong way for us. Like there's no getting away. Europe came into it this year.

We had a team of players and I don't feel like I would be speaking out and say there was a few of us that haven't had a year that we would want. We weren't coming into it like on unbelievable form. Myself very much, I would feel like one of the top of that list that, you know, hadn't had the year that that we would want. We're practically playing the Harlem Globetriders, like it was arguably the best, you know, the US team is practically, you know, the best that there's ever been, you know, it was in a way Radicook for us. And you know, we just, we never got you know, it was an away-rider cook for us and we just, we never got out of the blocks and I think it felt like, you know, when you're in the middle of it and you're playing,

felt like we didn't hit as many good goal shots as the American team and on top of that, like it puts at the right time, we missed you guys hold and that makes a big difference. I guess like the overall comment you're never going to, I feel like I'm never going to sit there and speak up from a team and say oh we're miles off, like we need to do this, we need to do that. I think we should all believe in ourselves and we have two years. And it's an individual game for two years. And so I look at myself, I know what I want to do in my game, and I know what I want to do to get it better. And I'm sure everybody else is like that. And we also have, in Team Europe, we've got the best golfer in the world at the moment.

We have some players in unbelievable form and players that are going to have an amazing future in the game. So I feel like you just have a strong loyalty to your team and you're going to say the most positive things all the time and I will always do that. But definitely this right of cup, we were completely outplayed by an amazing team. Well, curious, if you take both teams, the same two teams, same week, but that event is played again at LaGolf National. What do you think happens? I don't know the answer to that, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts of what do you think? I don't know the answer either. It would have been closer.

Probably you would like to think so. I would like to think if we went out again, like, you know, if said, we're going to get all 12 players together and we're going to go and play the rider Cup tomorrow, I would definitely, and I think we all would go into it believing that Europe can and will win, because, you know, otherwise, what's the point? What's the point in playing? And it might be an irrational thought, or it might come off when we might might win But you're never going to go into it and not believe in yourself or your teammates and Like saying no matter when or where we would play I would go in with a hundred percent belief in team Europe You know whether that would whether it will come off or not is a different story But that's the way that you got to think I think Well, this was your first rider cup stateside so you don't really have a whole lot to compare it to but but I was kind of surprised how often it was mentioned that, you know, how much or how much it seemed like it affected you guys to not have fans there cheering.

Is it really that different not having anyone there cheering you on? And I know that there's usually probably, you know, what 20, 25% European representation at American Ryder cups I've been to a couple and that's always a fun aspect, but I was just kind of surprised at how much it seemed to have in some way affected you guys. Did you feel that at all? It's different. It's strange. I think that was, it doesn't hit you until you actually play and you do something that would obviously or hit a shot or a whole report that would normally, even in any regular circumstances, would get some kind of cheer, would get a good reaction, a strong reaction, a big reaction, and it's either silent,

or it's more like booing or something. And that's all part of the ride a cup, and that's what makes it such an amazing event for us as golfers, that it is just a different atmosphere than what you get week in, week out, that it is just a different atmosphere than what you get weak in week out. And it is different. I said in an interview after that, I remember it because I got asked about, do you think the crowds made that much difference? And again, I was against that sort,

because I said again, my teammates and the caddies and everybody that goes there, captain's vice captains, the back room staff, all of that is, I feel like, his plenty of support for us. I feel like we've got each other and that's, you know, that's all we really need. But the crowds obviously do make a big difference. They lift you in difficult times and you ride the wave when you're having, you know, really good times. And I think, of course, the crowd, I do believe probably make some difference. But again, you know, when I got asked that question, I just, I just said, my team makes there enough support for me.

And I don't believe that the crowd would have had any effect. But having the fans behind you and having European fans is an amazing thing. And it's always good to have them push you on and carry you on the shoulders if you need it. It's very interesting. It's obviously all up for debate. I don't think any others would make any excuses.

It was just a weird, it is a strange atmosphere. Like I say, when you just, you just do something that you think is really cool and that you, that you think is great. And it's just greeted with silence. And there's just you and your teammate and your caddies that kind of high five it or knock it out. Well, it seems even from a home team perspective, that first T-box was so muted if I may say. I mean, I've been there in France and I was there in 2016 at Hazeltein. I was there in 2012 at Medina. I've never seen anything like that.

And I really, I can't tell if it's, you know, if it just is the region and that's how those fans reacted. Or if you know, not having the European fans there weren't enough to, you know, egg on the American fans. Yeah, just have nothing to compete against almost. Yeah, it was real though. I honestly felt, not having the European fans there weren't enough to, you know, egg on the American fans to get into the computer. Yeah, it was real though. I honestly felt, I guess, were you expecting more out of a, you know, opposing first T-locks? Yeah, I didn't, I didn't really know it.

You sort of don't know what to expect. That was my first one in America. So I had no experience to go on on what, on what other, what other radicals have been like. So, and, and plus you, you kind of you want to the tea and and you know that the support's not in your favour anyway. So you you kind of a so self-focused or you're with your team mate and you just do your thing and I think it probably kind of when you're when you're about to play it can easily pass you by because you're just so focused on yourself and what you're doing especially with an away crowd

that you know is not on your side and there's no point you go in and try and achieve them up because you're not going to get any spot anyway so it's very much like focus on your task and what you're doing and when you ask me questions like I can really see that I didn't focus on it at all. I was so focused on the task ahead that I kind of missed that element of it. Did you get much heckling from the American fans? If you did, was any of it funny at least? I didn't get much. I got a little bit, and I think some people got more than me.

One guy asked if it was the solo I'm cupped, clearly a reference to my hair. And I think one of them that did make me laugh was like we were mid, I played in the afternoon on the first day and obviously I've been a tough day. And I just did some in the crowd. And it wasn't even like, it wasn't even aggressive to anyone. It was just a statement. It was like, Europe are awful. I just had to laugh at that. I was like, yeah, that's pretty funny.

Like there was no defense against it. It was just like, yeah, some of the comments funny, some of them can easily get to people. But in general, they're fine. They're pretty good. But my, my heckling was kept to a minimum. Well, I'm confused as an American fan, you know, having a lot of experience losing rider cups, you know, even as soon as the post post rider cup press

conferences when the captain backstabbing begins. And there was there was absolutely none of that on your guy's side and people, you know, the you guys team camaraderie and spirit seems to it. That's kind of a seems like a lazy thing to fall back and people, you know, your guys team camaraderie and spirit seems, that's kind of a, it seems like a lazy thing to fall back on or, you know, kind of a generic statement, but it seems very real from almost every person I can talk to that's involved in the team in some way. And I just wondered how you would describe that atmosphere

and how you guys all get along as a group of professionals that are playing individually so much of the year and come together for this week. Yeah, I think. I think that. The team room Europe's team room is one of the best places you can ever find yourself. And I think all of us love each other. We all play so hard for each other.

We all have such a good time and so lucky that I would class our team leaders, if you like, as players, you know, people like Sergio or Pulse are so there's such amazing teammates and you definitely get the feeling that on that week anybody would do anything for anyone and they would give anything for anyone. You just all behind each other so much and you feel that. So it's such a great place to be and play two now, both of them in different ways have been my most amazing experiences in golf and things that you'll remember forever. But yeah, we have such a bond and where it just feels like such a great team and a great atmosphere. And I think we're very lucky really. Well, tell us the story of,

what made it hit home for me was here in the story about how the new team members were introduced, you know, the height video that leads into, you know, counting the number of players that were, could you tell us kind of, and tell the listeners that story because you can tell it much better than I was. I was, of course, not there. Um, yeah, we had this thing this year where it was, um, we all got given our number. So I'm trying to remember correctly. It might have been 164 might have been the most recent

like the which was burnt, which was the, is the, you know, the most recent guy to get in the team. We had three, did we have three rookies this year? Yeah. Shane Victor and burnt. So we had this, it was, you know, it was an amazingly cool video of what your, you know, what your number is. So we had this, it was an amazingly cool video. What your number is, get given your number,

what the number means, make it count was our slogan, and then after that video, you get the talk from Padreik, who was an amazing speaker throughout the week. And then he announced, the Rockies, who've just got given their number. And it was really cool, because again, you just get welcomed into the team and again, like on both sides,

rookies these days just don't feel like rookies, because you all play the same events and such big events, and you've had such big moments in the biggest tournaments. And, but yeah, it's honestly a very, very special thing and you just have to see the guys that played their first one this year, how much they loved it. And I was a rookie three years ago and I remember how much I loved being in the team and then you watch those guys and how just into it you are and how much kind of just feel like everybody's been in the team for like 20 years.

It's an amazing vibe and that, but it was very cool and everybody's so behind and you see the guys face is how much it means to everyone just to be, you know, play for Europe and represent and where they're closing everything and get your numbers. So that was really cool and just so well done by, you know, everybody that was really cool and just so well done by everybody that was behind that. That's right. I think I'm getting closer and closer and closer to understanding how this team atmosphere on Europe

has led to so much success. It's little stories like that that take it from being this kind of rosy media presented thing to like here in the detailed stories behind the scenes of the things that unfolds. It's like, oh, well, that makes sense. Why you see like so much emotion and how that, you know, that it's a whole culture thing that, you know, I think, I guess that's a better question.

How does that lead to, how does the team atmosphere potentially lead to either better or worse golf in either way on either side of the coin in theory. Like how would how does that actually lead to better golf shots more pots hold does it lead to that in any way? I don't know. I feel like I mean, you know, I've played both good and not so good now in two rider cups. I think there's definitely, a aura and atmosphere created in our team. And I obviously can only speak for team Europe. That's all I can ever speak for,

because that's all I experience. But you just feel very safe. And when you have people leading the team, like we do, like I say, I go back to Pots and Sergio, they speak amazingly and anybody that is even the slightest bit down about a result one of those is picking you up straight away. Rory is another one like such positive people and amazing teammates and team leaders that you you don't get a chance to sit there and feel down or feel sorry for yourself. They pick you up so quickly and you go out there and again you're always playing, you're not playing for yourself, you're playing for each other.

And yeah, things happen in their article, don't they? I mean, they happen on both sides as well. There's always amazing, goal shots hit. There's always amazing moments. I don't know how it translates into the golf side of things, but yeah, it's clearly a very special event. Europe, we obviously do have a great record in recent history, if you like, but it seems to be swapping over now. Home rider cups seem to have been very, very important in the last few. And we'll see where it goes in the future. But it is an amazing time. And yeah, Europe, especially this one, like this was such a great set of teammates for Europe.

And I think a few guys said, like the atmosphere and the unison that we all had together was like as good as they've ever experienced. And again, like I think it's such a natural thing for us. It's not like we work on it. The back, the back room stuff and what goes into it and how they produce those videos or how they set the team room out is unbelievable and clearly, you know, makes, I think that makes a massive difference. And yeah, I don't know, like just the Radikots cool event and, you know, some people are just made for that. Well, and again, I guess I'll throw my kind of theory on it. The way I've come to the conclusion is I think there's an atmosphere that can promote a bit too much pressure to be put on yourself in terms of the expectation of winning or the

pressure of winning. That's always what I've felt like until recent year, until this most recent one. When I'm watching the US team, I know they want to win. I know they want to win very badly. It's not a question of desire, but it almost seems like they're, they would are a result-focused more than like just, you know, owning the process of going out and getting a point and selling yourself out for your teammates. And the two can promote two totally different ways of playing golf. No one plays, I would imagine not very many people play as much, uh, play as well when they are putting extreme amounts of pressure on themselves to perform versus, I don't know, the idea of selling out to your team, I feel like is what you guys have been able to capture.

And that's the difference to me. I don't know if that makes sense at all. Yeah, it totally makes sense. And, you know, I would love to. I've never had sort of not been in that place really, but had conversations with captains on what they're like beliefs are or how they they feel like they create the best environment for guys to thrive. So I would love to probably talk to the guys that have been captains about that and sort

of you might get a better answer off them. But you know, it's important to go out there and feel it's an experience that you don't get. It's at once every two years. So it's you know, it can be daunting, it can be intimidating. And I think going out there feeling as safe and as comfortable and as confident and as ready to play and give it your all and not worried about anything is, you know, always going to be a better, be better than the alternative. Sure. Well, tell us about Marcos Simone in 2023. What's that golf course like? Who does it suit? A lot of us on this side of the pond are not very familiar with that. I've watched the YouTube videos of highlights and Italian Open and whatnot. But tell us about that golf course. Yeah, I thought it was good. I played it this year in the Italian

Open. The finish is going to be an unbelievable finish for a ride a cup. That's what was the biggest thing that stuck out in my mind was 16, 17, and 18, what an amazing finish. That's going to be for matches that go down those holes. It's like 16 they can make into a drivable par 4 that's got water on the right. 17 is a par 3 with a really narrow green and then 18 to par 5 where obviously anything can happen on par 5. So I really do think the finish is going to be amazing and I think in terms of a ride a cook course, there's a lot of holes that you hit down on from raised teas, a few sort of amphitheaters. And I know the challenge of the course, there's a lot of holes that you hit down on from raised T's, a few sort of amphitheaters. And I don't know, the challenge of the course, you never, you never know how it's going to pan out and you don't know how you're going to add the going to set it up.

And again, it's the standard getting, you know, more and more closer and similar. But at the same time, you know, you think that the golf national or Western straights, you feel like, you know, in both teams to strengthen debt, you play well, you're gonna, the guys are gonna have an equal chance. And I think that should be the same on any course. But again, we'll see, obviously seems to be a way of setting a course up

that is advantageous for the alongside. But it will be good. I think it'll be a really, really good venue for the rider cut for sure. Why is that? What do you, I don't think it's as simple as maybe even I like to make it out to be in terms of, you know, grow the rough up. It helps Europe trim the rough down. No, I know idea. What? You don't know what it is. I can't figure that out. Well, no, I, well, I don't because you get, you know, you feel

like you, you set no matter if it wasn't a rider cup and the, and the course was set out, you know, the same as what it is, you'd think like anybody can compete on that course. It's not like nobody out of the 24 players could win an event. So I really don't, I'm not sure, but it does seem to obviously be playing a part, but I'm definitely not the person to ask, I can't figure it out. In your mind, what is an ideal place for a rider cup? You know, it can be nostalgic, it can be, you know, obviously, the infrastructure needs.

Where's a place you would love to see a rider cup go? It's a very, very, it's a very good question. I would, I guess, off the top of my head, if I chose, you know, places in in Europe, I mean... It can be realistic. Or unrealistic, you know? Well, like the home of golf, so Andrews would be, I don't know, I would feel like that would be something quite unique and special and I would obviously always like to think that where I grew up, which is such a golfing community and amazing fans, like when we have the open at Burtdale or Hoy Lake or Lidem, I would love like

people from where I'm from to get the chance to all experience the ride a cup in that way on any of those courses. But you know, I mean, that's, I guess those two would come to mind first. And that's what, you know, it is different thing hosting even a even an open championship versus hosting a rider cup or two very different things in terms of all the fans congregating in one place and that's kind of how the venues get chosen. I think a dare manners going to be really cool in Ireland in 2020. A day and I will be tremendous. Yeah, that's a good good blending of I know it's not a links course, but you know, the Irish golf fans are fantastic. And I think that one's one to look forward to. It'll be really cool. Yeah, I feel like yeah, the next few are going to be. Yeah, I feel like the world will be really cool. So a hot topic in the world of golf and you are one of the players that requested a waiver

to play in the Saudi international. It was, you know, it was long talked about whether or not the PGA tour would or should grant releases. How does well, one, how does that work with you no longer having a PGA tour card? Do you still need a release from the PGA tour to play in the Saudi international? What did you think of that process? Are you expecting the PGA tour? They recently did announce for the listeners, say, they did announce that they are allowing players to play.

If there's some conditions, they have to come play the AT&T in certain ways and whatnot. But what were your thoughts on that process? You know, I played the event last year. And look, like, again, there was two things that are the biggest things that pull the guys to play. That I believe personally, and this was my reason for wanting to play, there's no secrets that a lot of people are getting paid handsomely to go.

I don't think appearance money. People get paid to play events throughout the year in many, many different places. So it's not really that's not a new concept at all, but you are getting paid well to go and play. And the other thing is that it's going to be, you know, when you look at the entry list and you know who's going and who wants to play,

it's going to be, aside from the majors in the odd event, it's going to be one of the highest world ranking events in the world of golf throughout the year. And then you don't want to miss out on that kind of thing. So that was my reason to want to go and play. And yeah, you didn't, you know, until recently, knowing you knew what was going to happen out, it was going to pan out. And, and yeah, we need the releases to play. And then it looks like that, that's all sort of getting sorted out. And there's a compromise there. And it's all good so far.

Well, a lot of people, myself included, have been critical of guys that have, you know, bypassed PGA tour events to play in this event, you know, considering the country's human rights record. What would you say? What, you know, it's an awkward question to ask, but you know, when you're, would you say, are you up to speed and aware of where the criticism comes from

and the understanding of what, you know, why people are understand why people are focusing on this issue so much? Yeah, of course, I get it and everybody, of course, that's what makes the world three years and it's now an Asian Tour event. And yet, like it's different when you're a member of a tour that the event is hosting. It's like you, you know, you can't sort of expect people whose job it is to go out there and make a living to, you know, sort of bypass an event if you like, because that's their opportunities and that's their way of making a living on those tours. But you know, I, you know, like I said that's their opportunities and that's their way of making a living on those toes. But you know, I, you know, I get, like I said, that's, I get it. That's what makes the world go around and I would never tell anybody not to have an opinion or anything. Myself, I'm going there with 150 other players to go and do my best in that event. And again,

to go and do my best in that event. And again, I'm not going to hide away from it. You get you get you get in paid to play, which is a good thing for you and and your family and and when you get there, it's just another event and everybody just gets on with it and does their own thing play and then you're at another event the next week and you always feel like you just move on, keep moving forwards. And I do think just for the listeners sake that you know it is a different question being asked Europeans, European players than it the listener's sake that you know it is a different question being asked Europeans European players Then it is some American players and you know there's some some people that don't play and as much of international schedule that skip out on Pretty big PGA tour events to go play and that that are already making an extremely handsome living that to me That is where I start to feel uncomfortable and it just doesn't feel you know justified

I I'm with you in the terms of on the European side. I think it's always been a different question. It's just a weird time in the game with the much rumored super golf league, Greg Norman recently announced as the CEO of Liv Golf. Where do you net out on where your allegiance is lie and how does this event fit into any of that picture in your mind? It's so difficult on so many levels for a bunch of players. The supergolds league that I was never ever contacted in any way about that, so I know so little about it. But obviously we know being

part of the world of golf, that it is a thing potentially, whether that actually transpires or not, will be another thing altogether. I think it's a weird spot at the moment. If you look at the whole global picture of golf, what seems funny at the moment is like the Asian Tour obviously seems very much separated now from the European and PGA Tour in a way. That's kind of weird. I would love to see like I feel like the world of golf should always, you know, it should be a collective thing. Like I feel like people and players should not necessarily get equal opportunities. I get that it's different. People grow up in different countries. People that grow up in America are obviously going to have a better opportunity to play the PGA tour.

People that grow up in Europe, you know, you're going to go to Euro Pro Tour, to the challenge tour, to the European tour, and I get that there's easier ways of getting on each. But I, you know, I don't like the sort of people growing up in the game now somewhere and potentially getting left behind, but again, we'll see where that goes. And again, it's not, definitely me, I'm not high enough up in the game. And on the ladder, definitely not at the moment where I make a difference to anything.

And I'm sort of, I mean it's very rare that I'm asked these questions, I just sort of concentrate on my game and trying to get to where I want to be so it's like I very rarely sort of get sort of considered or asked about these things but it's always, it's going to be a difficult question to question for a while and it'll be interesting to see where golf goes and my career for sure is going to last. Hopefully is going to last, you know, quite a while longer and we'll see what course golf takes in that time. Man, that's not something I get a lot of, you know, people saying that I'm asking the hard-hitting questions here. Usually I'm the softball guys. I think this whole, is made all of you guys,

at least ask yourself in some way, if you're not always asking yourself, like what motivates you in golf? What do you want out of golf? And I think there are whatever percent of the top players that will just flat out say, like it's money, I'm motivated by money, some will say it's trophies, it's competition, it's growing the game, it's all these things. But will say it's trophies, it's competition,

it's growing the game, it's all these things. But have you asked yourself that question? What motivates you, golf? And if you haven't, I'll ask it now. What is it that motivates you? Oh, yeah, yeah. Of course, I want to reach my potential in the game. Like the game has been my passion and my profession

for a long time. I've always dreamt of being the best golfer in the world. I've always dreamt of winning the open. I do believe in growing the game. And that is a global thing that is everyone included. And I, you know, I have a, I always feel like I have a, a good connection with kids and I enjoy watching kids get into the game and enjoying the game and seeing what their vision is for themselves and how much they enjoy it and I do think,

you know, nothing at the very, very top end happens without, you know, the numbers and the guys that are coming to that just start the game by picking up a golf club. And, you know, on top of that, for sure, we live or we're playing the game at the moment in an unbelievably strong position where you can retire early than you've ever retired and you can set your family up for life. You know all of those things put together we're very fortunate that we are working in the profession that we do and we get to go out there on a golf course and do what we love and you can do all those things. You know how you you have all the facilities and possibilities to go and try and achieve your potential. You can grow the game. You have access to that these days and

you know, you're setting your family up for life and I think those three things are always what I look at. What would you say if you're sitting here now and excluding yourself even you know your own personal decisions from this. But how do you see it feels like there's changing tides here in the professional golf world, you know, your own personal decisions from this. But how do you see, it feels like there's changing tides here in the professional golf world, you know, these days. How do you see it playing out? We've already seen a ton of stuff happen in terms of the strategic alliance between the PGA tour and the European tour, you know, co-sanctioned events. I picture that getting stronger and stronger. Player impact program, money going up on the PGA tour, the PGA tour seems to have changed

the way they communicate with their players all that. How do you see it playing out in, you know, in two, three, four years? My first answer would be I don't know. I, for sure, like the European tour and the PGA tour are joining more and more. And like you say, you see, you're seeing more you say you see you're seeing more co-sensual events. I have no idea what that means for what it will look like in the 2023 season or 2024 but I'm sure that is going to continue but we're going to eventually there's going to be a point where you know the merge has to stop at some point in terms of like not every event can be co-sensualed there'll probably be a bit of a two in and four on

at some point but I don't know when that'll be and I don't know what that will consist of. And we'll see, there's obviously other people that want to do something different in the game of golf. I have never felt like professional golf or tall professional golf has needed that much different and incredibly lucky that we have tours like the PJTL European Tour that I've played on for a while now where you get to go out and play and make your living and play for these. I mean, ridiculous sums of money in a way and to have them opportunities and we'll see where these tours go in in the future but if you, one thing is for certain that if you play them well and you're up there at the top of the game, then it's an amazing place to be right now and you're going to do very well

from it. Has playing for a ridiculous sums of money in your words has it changed your life at all and if so in what ways does it change your life? I don't think it's, I've changed my life, I don't think it's. I have to change my life. I don't want to say like, I have nice things. We have nice holidays and you can stay in nice hotels. It doesn't change your lifestyle greatly. It seems like it's kind of what I'm getting at there. It seems like for you personally, it seems like a nice to have not a total hasn't changed who you are in any way? Oh, no, no, not at all. I think there's just a level of comfort in our family where, you know, we, there's, you know, we get to enjoy what we want to do. Like if we decide we want to go on holiday

somewhere and do something nice or stay nice, I tell, we can do that. But last, otherwise, I said, tell, we can do that. But lifestyle wise, like, no, nothing's really changed. And I honestly never think about how much money we either have, how much money we've earned, or what we're actually playing for, week in, week out, you just, that comes with playing really, really well. And again, like recently, when things have been announced, like the players championship and the person that, I mean, the easiest one to look at is FedEx Cup. It's what, $15 million. It's not $15 million when you finish 137th on the PJ Tour. It's $15 million if you play amazing golf like Patrick County did. And none of it comes without you working hard and being really good at what you do. And I think that has to be at the forefront of everybody's mind,

is those sums of money only exist for the guys that play really, really well, that it doesn't exist for the guys that don't. And we all know that. So, you know, it's amazing for it to light up in your eyes and see that. But, you know, there's a lot of hard work underneath there. And it's there for the taking, if you're doing great, and that's sort of always how I think of it. Yeah, and that's where I just, I picture golf, you know, the shakeout from all of this

being just that the PGA tour gets stronger and stronger and stronger with that alliance as well with the, with now DP World Tour. You got to get used to saying that now instead of your opinion. Yeah, I'm going to tell myself I said you're opinion, so I'll get used to saying that now instead of your opinion. Yeah, I'm many times I've said your opinion, so I'll get a ball of give for that at some point. The DP World Tour, but yeah, like both, and even on a level that the DP World Tour, when they made that announcement,

I was playing the Aviv Championship that week, and I was there for the announcement. And this is what people don't see. That the players' faces light up on that tour when they heard that this had happened and you're here in the minimum purse, go up to $2 million in the stability and the schedule and everything. It was really, really, really cool and lovely to see.

Like, especially on that tour that's been a struggle the last couple of years throughout this pandemic and events have got on the calendar really late. Some have been cancelled. You never quite know what you're doing and for those, like for so many of those players, you saw how happy everybody felt, like some breathe desire relief, some were like, you know, some made it that they could plan a schedule for this year. And that's, like, that's amazing to see really. And, and I, I am a player, like I'm a touring pro, and I always think of things as that. And then it was really, really nice to see how, and, you

know, that's not the, the top end the spectrum where you're talking about loads of cash, but it's, you know, players realizing that they have a structure, something solid that they can play in and like a guaranteed, you know, they're looking at the person thinking this is, you know, such a big, big thing for us. So that was really nice. Well, a couple more here. And we'll get you out of here as the new year. I hope I don't get you all the way to the ball drop and here, or getting close. But a couple of things I don't think we've ever talked about on this podcast.

But a couple of things that are unique to your life in terms of professional golfers that I don't know who else, if anyone else has this arrangement, this is, I believe how you guys met. But your wife is, your wife Claire is your manager. What's that like? And how is that different than, you know, you know, other, I don't know how you can compare to other professionals, but what's that like? And how is that different than, uh, than, you know, you know, other, other, I don't know how you can compare its other professionals, but what's

that like? Um, it's great. Like, it's, um, yeah, it's the best like we, we have, um, I think we're lucky that we have a relationship where we can easily switch into having a work discussion. She's an amazing agent, um, even if she's not my wife, she's an amazing agent. And so I'm very lucky that way, but we get on great and we've always found that transition, if you like, or whatever you call it, like mixing work, life balance, we've always found it's come very natural. And yeah, it's how we met, but it, you know, it's, it's been great. And people do ask that question. And we've like never, ever had the slightest of issues. And it's always been great. And, and she is very, very good at a job. And you're, you're turning 31 here in a couple weeks.

And you guys have a young boy, Frankie, who's three now, turning four. Four. Four. Four. Four. He's already four. Already four. Four in September. But you have how many stepsons do you have? And tell us about that relationship. That's a, I think that's unique for someone at your age to kind of be thrown into fatherhood of a teenager.

Exactly. Tell us about that. Oscar's 15 and like way bigger than me. And I was 13. And again, I'm really, really lucky with the relationship we have, absolutely adore them. And we've always gotten great.

And it's cool, I've seen them grow up. And I think that they're so into the golf at the moment. So I can obviously, I can do that stuff. Like I can talk and I can play golf. They're really into that and it's great to see their passion in the game. Like I'll come off the course and Mo will tell me, like, your routine was a little bit out today or see something in my swing, so he's telling me what to do already. And they're great.

So with that family side of it, that's the best thing in your life. And I'm lucky that I have, that I have a great one. But I always, we travel so much. And I always love the weeks that we're all together. And we see them out on the course, support in you. And then you back wherever you stay in, in the evening. And, you know, they might talk about the day or they might, you know, they might completely

change the subject and not be interested in your golf, but I completely love that side of it. All right. Final three questions here. You can answer these as, as, as lengthy or short as you want, knowing that I'm going to let you out here soon. But what is different about pro golf than how you pictured it as a kid? You have some good questions today.

It's my job. What is different about ProGolf to what I pictured as a kid? I think the search would be the wrong word, but I think always the, you know, so many times you're looking at a different potter or trying something new. I think you never stop looking at how to get better, looking at ways to improve thinking of the next thing and striving for more. When I was a kid, I probably didn't picture that. I felt like professional golfers and the best ones always had it so figured out. And the reality is you're always looking for more. And there's always questions that are unanswered and I think that was probably the biggest difference. You can go back in time and tell a young Tommy lad anything, you can pick your age, it's

got to be golf related, it can't just be, you know, buy some Apple stock or something like that. What age would you go back to and what would you say? I would probably tell myself this very young, but then if I was that young, I probably won't take it in, but I would say the result is never the end of the story, good or bad, whatever the result you wake up the next day and you're the same goal for that has to do the same things that you thought you had to do the day before. That would be my biggest thing. You get one round to play in England, where are you playing it? Ah, that's a check. I would play it. I would play it at Form Behold the course that I grew up at

and it would be with my dad and my kids and Finna would play for. We did talk enough Finna on this. They will say that for the next one. So that guy is the absolute man. So Tommy, really appreciate your time man. Hope you have a great new year and a great 22 C 22 season and look forward to catching up when we see you again soon. No, that was great.

Thanks for stuffing me with all the great questions. Enjoy the man. Take care, cheers. Thank you, mate. Give it a big club. Be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. you