No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 518: JR Smith

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

2 time NBA Champion turned college golfer JR Smith joins Soly to share his story of going back to school and competing on the golf team at North Carolina A&T. Smith also details his first exposure to golf, his favorite experiences in the game, some great stories from his career in the NBA, and the lasting opportunities he hopes to create for others.  This was a thrill to have him on the pod - a huge thank you to JR for his time! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to No Laying A Podcast. Sully here. I am absolutely thrilled to bring you today's interview with Jay, our Smith. Had a blast talking with him last week about his transition into the world of competitive golf from the NBA for a long, long time going back to school.

His experience in the game, his future in the game, what he thinks he can do for the game. I'm obsessed with this interview. This is one of my favorites in a long, long time. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Woop, the personalized digital fitness and health coach and official fitness wearable of the PGA and LPGA towards you can monitor your recovery, sleep, training and health with personalized recommendations and coaching feedback from Woop, train smarter, recover faster, sleep better, and now feel even healthier with personalized recommendations and coaching feedback from Woop, train smarter, recover faster, sleep better, and now feel even healthier with Woop and their all-new

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of membership on your account, you can upgrade now and get the 4.O for free. And right now, Woop is offering 15% off when you use code NLU15 at checkout. So go to Woop.com, whop.com, enter NLU15 at check out to go to whoop.com wh oop.com and our NLU 15 at check out to save 15% here's J.R. Smith. All right, man, I got to say this is the first time I've had to move an interview back 30 minutes because the guest was in tutoring. So tell us, tell us about I want to hear everything about, you know, you going back to school this process and what the what the school part has been like so far. Man, it's been fun.

It's been a lot of fun, honestly. It's just, you know, learning stuff that you've always, for me, things that I've always wanted to get and understand when I was a kid growing up, especially like some of the math stuff, like algebra, trig and all that stuff, like I never really understood growing up, you know, it looked like just a bunch of different. Once they start putting numbers

and letters together, it was like cross examination. I was done. I really enjoy it, learning things, and trying to implement these things in my daily life is probably my biggest joy. Things I learned, things I want to share with my kids. Overall, it's really refreshing for me. It's something outside the box, something I'm not used to, which makes me uncomfortable, but it puts me in a position to where I have to lock in. And I like that. So was that always your plan?

Or I guess when in your MBA career, did you start thinking about going back to school? I know for the was that always your plan, you know, or I guess when in your NBA career did you start thinking about going back to school? I know, you know, for the listeners that aren't familiar, you would committed to the University of North Carolina coming out of high school. But, you know, forego, you know, you bypass that to go straight to the NBA. Did you make a deal with yourself that you were always going to go back to school? What's that process like? Well, I always promised my mom that I would go back when I first initially left. And after 12 or 13 years, it was just like, this is not happening.

I'm not going back. My mom kind of knew what it was. She was like, yeah, I wasn't really expecting you. I mean, I was expecting you to go back then, but now seeing the way your career is going, and the way everything is like, I don't, it's just not in the car, it's too, you know, it's funny.

She, we actually kind of had a similar like conversation about it and she pretty much told me that and, uh, but I didn't think about going back into like seriously, this past, uh, this past summer, beginning of this summer, talking to Ray Allen. He's going school, Connecticut games, Gary finishing up his masters now. It was just, when he was telling me about the whole process, I'm going to school, doing tutoring and stuff like that, in class,

submitting and doing presentations, it's just like I was so inspired by listening to their stories of talking to other people, talking to other people. His classmates and beginning of a different opinion from the younger version opposed to people that we just hang out with as our peers because the generational gap was just something that really intrigued me and I wanted to do like immediately. I always thought about it.

I definitely always thought about it, but it was more like football. I always thought about me and Brown would talk about it all the time. Like, yeah, man, we got eligibility, we got play football to the draw. And once it came a real thing, I actually still want to play football,

but I don't think they're gonna let me get away with that. Two sport athletes, you know, back, it wouldn't none of them be basketball if you were to do that now, but. So at least take a second to brag on yourself for how you did in your first semester, your first quarter in school. Man, I got a four point though.

I can't brag on myself because it was definitely a lot of work. And it wasn't as... That's why you should brag on yourself. You put a lot of work in. I did put a lot of work into it, but it's like the bar for myself that I, I used to go and I'm set for myself every semester. It's not like, when I first heard about the chances list and

the Dean's list and stuff like that, like my first goal is to make the Dean's list and in order to make the Dean's list, I think it's like a three, two or three, five or something like that that you needed to have. And I was like, you know, I'm definitely going to get that. And then as the like, you know, the first couple of weeks went through, it was more like, now I'm setting a bar to low for myself because I'm putting in, I see the dedication and where I've put the time and effort in.

I see how my mindset has changed as a person. But when I've seen that, I was like, now I'm just sending bar too low for myself. I really, if I'm gonna do this and do it with the best of my ability, I need to be striving for the best that it is. And that's like, I put it into basketball terms. Like when I was working out in the summer times

and going into training camps and stuff like that with my teams, and I wasn't, I was preparing to win a championship. I wasn't preparing just to get to the playoffs. I wasn't preparing just to have a good season. It was prepared to win a championship. And when I think about it, my championship for me will be four point-on and just semester, each semester. So that's the way I look at it.

That answers one of my questions, which is what disciplines you learned in the NBA, you know, are translating over. So was it, you know, it sounds like school was the number one motivation. When did golf enter the picture, right? You're playing at North Carolina A and T now, like, was it, you know, a 50, 50 thing? Was it kind of like, well, I'm going back on my as well, play golf that I'm fascinated by this process. So I was playing golf with C.J. Paul, Chris Paul's brother. And we were playing in LA.

I was living in LA at the time, working out, trying to stay ready for the league and whatnot. And, but I would play golf every day. So my regiment was, I would work out at like 6am, 7am, Chris Johnson. And then after that, I would play golf pretty much all day because my kids are in Jersey. So playing golf with him, he's from Carolina,

he's from Chris has been doing a lot of things with HBCUs, and I wanted to go to a HBCU more than anything. So once I enrolled and told him that I was going to Carolina, A&T, they got so many ties and stuff down there in Carolina. It was like, man, you should play golf. I was like, bro, I thought about it. I thought about it so many times, like playing golf on the college level or just just like impeding or whatever.

But then I was like, man, I wanna play football. He's like, man, that was that play golf. You see, love golf, you play golf all day, I'ma do whatever you good. I was like, man, you think I'll make the team? Like, this is probably some sticks. He was like, now it's time. All you gotta do is play again. I'm gonna put a call and I'm gonna see what it was going on.

And then he put a call into one of the basketball coach and him is real tight. And he talked to the golf coach and the golf coach was like, I mean, when I'm a scholarship firm, whatever, I was like, I don't think he's worried about that. I was like, I mean, when I'm a scholarship form, whatever, I was like, I don't think he's worried about that. I don't even, I don't worry about that.

He's like, all right, well, let me see if he could play. And then a coach and I played and then after that, it just took off. Well, I mean, what was your competitive golf experience at that point? When did you start playing golf? When did you, I mean, competitive golf and casual golf are two totally totally different things. So what, I mean, there's a steep curve there.

Yeah, it's completely different. For me, when I first started playing, it's been what, 13 years now, Rashad Lewis had a golf event or he, his first foundation event was a golf outing. So we were all working out with John Lucas and Houston at the time. And, you know, T.J. First foundation event was a golf outing. So we were all working out with John Lucas and Houston at the time.

And TJ Ford and his guys were like, you know, going to Richard's golf tournament, come on man, whatever, whatever. I'm like, man, I don't play golf. Like I'm pop some on brother plays or whatever. I don't play golf. Like whatever, I'm gonna get an extra hundred shots. They're like, nah, nah, nah, nah, come on.

So they can best me go out there. So I go out there and they tell me, like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, Clyde Drexler, Kimmel Ozzwine came out there like, all these Houston legends and Hall of Famers and stuff. I think Dr. J came and I'm just like, I'm in for me as grown up as a kid. I'm a basketball heaven just, I casual though, it's like the temperature of the water. So he's nobody's in the gym, a totally different environment

and I was really feeling a vibe. And Moses Malone, I got a thing with Hall of Famers. I just can't when they tell me something. I don't tell them no. Like they don't feel like go give me this water. I mean, Hall of Famers. I got never spent I got you you know, like that's just the way I was you know, my pops put me got me like that. Just I mean, young fellow you over at life and joking whatever talking talking shit. Come hit this bump. I don't like man, I ain't fun. I come on. I'll go out there. He

shows me how to hold the club. I'm watching everybody swing. It's like five people in a group because it's like he was a celebrity in his group. First time I get up there, hit it three hundred yards down the fairway. Crush it. Crush it. He's like, everybody's looking. I'm like, man, he's talking shit. I'm going to go to club, walk off, get in the golf cart, fill up. Sound glow in the whole day. I'm bragging. I'm telling the other groups, whatever. Moses is telling the other groups. I'm feeling good. So I pulled back up on his group. He's like, man, he fell. He can't do it again. He didn't. He didn't. I couldn't even hit the ball. That sounds more like it. After that, I got hooked. I was, I

bought like three sets of clubs that day. I bought like the first clubs I bought was like the Nike Sashquash. I think it was. And then I got like these Taylor maids like our sevens or something like that. Then I got some titleists. It was just like, it was on and on. I got a garage full of clubs. I'm going back to the PGA store. So we should.

But there's a whole lifestyle around like professional athletes transitioning into like a life of golf of some kind. I mean, not a sandwich. But there's a whole lifestyle around like professional athletes transitioning into like a life of golf of some kind. I mean, not a lot. No one's really going the route that you're going. But man, people gravitate towards pro amps, charity golf events, and it just see that's why I don't, I mean, I understand the appeal of golf golf is my life. I freaking love it. But I guess what in your mind, what, what, what draws professional athletes to this sport as a pastime once you're playing career in your main sport is over? I think it's the overall competition of it.

Even if you're not planning to get to anybody else, you're planning to get yourself, you're competing to be great every single day. It's like for people who've played at the highest levels of their sports and been on the highest, you know, stages, I think that's something we chase, you know, it's a feeling that we chase and you hit that perfect swing and had that perfect shot. When I'm playing in the college tournaments, I think of every shot that I take as if, you know, I'm playing in the actual NBA game, you know, if I got a corner three, I'm looking, you know, certain drives and putts and stuff like that. And it's just like the level of concentration is completely different when you play with your boys and you just out there playing 50 odd and ass odds or whatever and what not opposed to when you got to put everything out for the team and everything counts.

It's just like, it's funny because one of the kids on the other school, he caught me. Like it was like the 15th hole in I almost forgot where I was at. Like I almost just like scooped it up and it's like, oh, when you're not used to that environment in that setting, it can be an uncomfortable situation. So, but for, again, for professional athletes and people who've been at the top of their sports

or a game and whatever. And a lot of, especially like, you know, a lot of businessmen and like that as well, you've been so successful on a Wall Street, whatever else. You can do anything. And then when you get out there on that golf bar and you can't do it is like it's a very It's a very frustrating game, but it's a beautiful game. I love it There's no cheating past it like you can't like without putting the time and effort and just a tremendous amount of dedication And then once you do that, there's no guarantee you're good at it. That's the part that you know like I don't know if you I don't know how to ask this question basically about basketball to golf, but like, I play basketball in high school. So I understand like how, you know, you're relying on 14 mates on the court and five people you're playing again. So there's so much of the game is reacting to what's going on around you. Right. Whereas golf all of a sudden when it becomes your turn, there is, I mean, other than like wind and whatnot, like, there's nothing going on around you that matters.

Like it is on you. Like you've got to figure out what you're going to do. How have you found that kind of translation? Does your experience playing professional basketball help you at all and golf? Or does it kind of hurt a little bit because it's so different? What's your perspective on that? It helps and it hurts. You know, it hurts when, but I kind of, I kind of change it and look at it

kind of differently, like my clubs or my teammates or my nine owners is Bronn. My, my, my three wood is kind of re my brothers love. So I was like, my, I look at my, I look at my, my bag is my teammates. Oh, so it's like, it's kind of, it's kind of weird, but, you know, I actually envision talking to my bag and talking to my clothes. When I'm out there, like, come on down, we gotta figure it out. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. That's working for me.

I might have to try that. I'm telling you, man, it's hard because when you really think about it, obviously golf is more isolated game compared to any other game and people try to put that emphasis on it so bad because it comes to me it becomes a psychological bearing. It's like I'm out here by myself. I got to figure it out by myself. I got to figure it out. I was like okay no I'm not by myself. I got 14 clubs in his bag and we're gonna make it we gonna get it done you know whether it's it's a matter of picking the right club around the golf course.

If I don't have it that day, how can I use my teammates in my bag to get me best around this park? And I just try to, I'm trying to look at it more like that, opposed to in that isolated field. Because when people, to me, it's like when you acknowledge to yourself,

you're alone, you're isolated, I'm gonna put you in a depression state. I feel like I'm a pre-poor person, I'm a loved people, I'm around and things I do, and I try to take all the elements of what I got, what I have to make the best out of it. So in those situations, that's what I try to do. I try to think of my, again, my bag is my team.

It helps if you got playing partners, guys you're playing with too, that you can kind of chat with. And you know, you kind of take you out of your competitive mindset in between shots and things like that. So how have you found tournament golf then? You know, what's for people that aren't familiar with what you've played in so far and the successes

and what not you've had? What's it been like for you? It's been an experience. You know, it's a, a lot of what you say is like, you know, you learn how to, you learn who you are, you know, learn how you, you, for me, on a basketball court, every time I went into the game, like, upset or almost like trying to force the game and try to be too locked in or something. It never really worked out for me. My first tournament, I tried to go out there and, you know, be...

Laser focused. Laser focused. Well, I thought Tiger would do, or I thought he just on the range. And I think these guys, I'm just like super tunnel vision. Yeah. Barely speaking to anybody, like almost like being that... And I forgot almost where I was at, who I am, and what not.

I was almost being like that rich dick at the golf club. Just like, oh, super knocked in, he don't talk to anybody, he just wants to do it all, and it's just like, that's just not who I am. So once I was like loosened up, we just started talking to the guys, and I call them, what I shouldn't do, because I didn't like it when I was their age

and I called them kids and like you're growing into young men. But I'm playing with 18, 19, 20-year-olds and actually picking their brains on how they see the golf course, how do you see like, what's your class schedule like? What do you do? Like, who are you? Almost, you know, what's your class schedule like? What do you do? Like, who are you, almost, you know? And I was throughout the first round, I was losing that because I was trying to be so locked in. And then after that, the game just became so much easier because I'm more relaxed.

I'm more of me in my element, opposed to trying to be somebody I'm not, because this is what I think greatness is and what it looks like to me on a golf course. It's like trying to swing like Tiger. Knowing you're never never going to swing like tiger. You haven't put an hour to swing like tiger, but you're just going to go out there and just think you're going to make it happen. It doesn't work like that. Well, and it's there's a, you know, nobody knows the secret to great golf, but like there is an element to being in an athletic flow, low tension state that

is more likely to help you play good golf than like super, super intense, super way too focused. Like I don't know how to, there's no secret to finding that balance, but that's just a learning process pretty much for everyone. So I'm a percent like especially for me because like a lot of like shooting and you know, defense and stuff like that. And obviously golf, a lot of is with your hands. So if you get that tension and aggression or whatever that in your hands and you the balls grab it or go anywhere. Can you compare shooting to a golf swing for me?

I mean, I, you know, so much like we talked about like basketball happens pretty quick. There's not a ton of time to think when you got to get a shot up, whatnot. If you're struggling with your shot and struggling with your swing, is it a similar kind of thing? How much you're thinking about it? Feel like the more I struggle with my swing, the more I'm thinking about, the more I struggle with my shot,

the more I'm thinking about it. How would you compare the process of those two things? For me, it's repetition. Like anything, how would I always say, for myself, I've spent So much time in the gym shooting shots and I saw I really love Steph's commercial and he broke that record and because he's like you really think about in the shooters mindset and obviously he Shot and made way more than I ever have like when you have who you spent that much time in the gym when people ask me what I used to think about when I used to shoot, it was like nothing, because that's, I don't think about my hands, I don't think about my form,

I don't think I got to get this shoulder here, I don't think about nothing of that. It's just, I've done it so much and put myself in the situations, mentally, psychologically, so many different times. It's my body just taking over, you know, and then golf, when I, you know, have those swings, and it's tougher because of golf, you can, you can hit a good shot and I have the results, you know, and then golf when I, you know, have those swings and it's tough, it's tougher because

golf you can, you can hit a good shot and I have the results, you know, and sometimes you just got to live with that part of the game. You can hit a 300-yard bomb, but you can also hit a 300-yard bomb that rolls out the 350, 350, and put you in the water or a bunker behind a tree in certain areas or not. But then today, it's still a good swing. It's just a matter, you know, the game. And basketball is not as much like that. Like, granted, you can, it can feel good and come off your hands, but I know generally 95% of the times when I feel the feeling I have, I'm gonna make that shot.

Very rarely does it rim in and rim out or something like that. I know what that feels like. And granted, I put the the rim out or something like that. I know what that feels like and granted I put the time in the hours and like that. So I know it just in Thomas or you know those guys when they from the time they hit the ball, they know exactly where it's going to go. The moment we've all been waiting for since September finally here in honor of the big game, Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of Super Bowl 56 is giving new customers 56 to one odds on either team If you bet just five dollars and get 280 and free bets if your team wins if you're not a new customer

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If in New York call 877 8 hope in Y or text hope in Y that's 467 369 back Jair Smith Taking you from like day one when you started playing competitive golf or college golf, you know, to now, what have you seen out of other players or guys you've played with to make you look and say like, all right, here's where I got to get better, right? Here's the next step for me. What are the strengths and weaknesses of your game? For me, just right now is just mainly short game. My chipmunk getting getting up and down from around the bunkers and around the greens. It's like playing that bump and run, a low runner or flopping it. And it's just like, that's where I know I can shave at least six or seven strokes off my game. It's just having that again, being comfortable doing it so many times where you don't

even think about it. I'm still in that stage to where, in this process. Like analytics at all and golf or understanding strokes gained or kind of a math of how it works. Because I'm curious to pick your brain up. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that.

I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm not sure how far along you are in this process, like analytics

at all and golf or understanding strokes gained or kind of the math of how it works because I'm curious to pick your brain on how that has evolved in basketball as well. But I know for golf for me, that helped me a lot to understand where, you know, where the biggest gaps are in some of those areas. You know, I haven't on my game. I haven't done analytics enough and took it into account because I've been such a field player in my whole life. I've been known to miss 10, 12 in a row

and then go seven in a row, make seven. So I was like, I've tried to stay that away from analytics as much as I could because sometimes you just have an and de-i test. It's like, okay, this guy averages. God's coming out of college. I was just kind of average 15 and 9. He's like, okay, cool. He's not going to make it up here. Like, it's just not, it's just not, you know, so it's, but for me, I got to get more into the

analytics of golf because obviously you got to know your misses, you got to figure out what you do to the decimal. I got. Well, I found it intimidating to learn about in the beginning, but the more I learned about it, the more freeing I actually felt like it was. I used to think I was a terrible putter until I learned like, hey, if you have an eight footer for par, like you probably did something wrong along the way, like you got to take the pressure off your putting emphasis on

the long game, things like that. I think you you might you would enjoy learning about some of that stuff. It's actually kind of freeing. You just learn the value of like, man, if you hit the ball in the green, life is pretty darn easy, which is, which is, you know, obvious in whatnot, but like the fastest way to get in better is get getting the ball on the green close to the whole in regulation. That sounds simple, but it's freeing a little bit for like people that struggle with their short game. I think like they put a lot of pressure on it because maybe they're missing more greens than they'd like to think that they are and things like that. So it's pretty

it. Once you turn the corner to that, it's a very interesting world. It's I was playing when I first got to Cleveland. That's when I really started playing my best golf ever because I started playing with Mike Miller. And he really just told me like he took the driver out of my bag. And he said, listen, you're gonna hit every three wood because you do it. You hit your three wood. He's like, well, why are you even hitting the driver? He's like, bro, you can hit that thing 270 to 80 and put it in the middle of the and middle of the fairway. And from there, you can play it seven, nine down into any almost anywhere you play. And then you get hit to the center of the green and two put in make part.

You can shoot you can shoot even all day long. I'm going to shoot 85 89 90. One day I go shoot 76 and I go back to shoot 85. It's like you make it a game way too complicated. You know, you already get you got everything. You just you think what the game is, what they show you on TV is the game. And that's not the game. It's not about how good your good shots are. It's how it's managing your bad shots managing your average shots Is the thing and people like I feel like people are getting screwed up on this Bryson thing

I mean, yeah, he's trying to hit it as far as possible But like you don't understand how straight Bryson is for how far he hits it It's not that's not something you can just take and apply down the board of hey You should be trying to hit it as far as possible because, you know, when you even you get down to near that scratch or four or five handicap level, like you have a lot of big misses in there that that's what kills you penalty shots and whatnot. That's what kills you the most. For sure.

You hit that thing out of bounds. You got to go banged on and it's like, it's tough. I mean, especially when you see somebody like him who's obviously very analytical, but I mean, he's using what five degree driver. Yeah, it's nuts. He's, but he's still launching it high enough to get it far enough. You get to give the average, I mean, even the college golfers, you give them a five degree driver, they're not going to hit nowhere near like that.

No, he's like, you know, I think people, it's tough because obviously we all think, all he's human, I can do this, I can do that, I can do this, and then somehow or some way, a few years later technology changes so we can do certain things. But I mean, these guys are hitting it almost like 70, 80 yards past, probably further than that past Jack and past Arnie when these guys are playing at the peak of the game. So it's like

Obviously the technology is helping but at the end of the day that That time offers an energy that you put they put into that game It makes the world a difference for sure So where do you play a lot of your golf like where do you and how does that relate to how you travel for your school schedule and whatnot and tell us about that? I'm a golf no man. I play everywhere. Like I play travel. I was a member of Bayon, a parent jersey for a while. It's just not enough guys. There's like more of a corporate situation. So guys come in from the city and stuff like that. So you pretty much play by yourself all the time

and you gotta walk. And I hate the situation where you have to walk. Like, you know, I want to give me the option unless I'm playing at Pine Valley every day. So talk about that, sir. Yeah, I'm gonna, I play everywhere, man. I really love the game. I really love different tracks.

And I love a lot of public courses that people, you know, a lot of people are turned into golf snobs and only want to play local courses or places that's really top 100s and stuff like that. But for me, it's like just being out there with the game and I'll play or, because you still got to hit the shots. I don't care how good the track is. If you can't hit the shots, you don't care how good the track is. If you

can't hit the shots and you don't got it that day, it don't matter where you play. So what, what, tell me about Pine Valley. I don't know you, you made some headlines with some shopping. You did an approach out there, but I'm sure there was more to that experience. No, no approach out of the safe man. I'm a big golf flag kind of guy and there's so many My goal one day is to have my golf closet look like a pro shop. I'm a big golf swag kind of guy and there's so many different things that you can do. I just got some new ferals and I got one on my sets of my sticks. I just like the pool sticks. Different colors on and stuff like that. So I'm a swag junkie when it comes to the game.

But yeah, Pond Valley man, that place is special. It's special. Just swalking out there and stepping on the ground, it just feels different. And by far the best practice range I've ever seen, pro-shoppers, I believe, that's why I had to rate it. And it's a jersey. So, you know, I'm a jersey boy. So, I had to represent, man. It's funny. It's crazy that I found a game that I love so much and it just turns out that the number one course in the country is in Jersey and it's like, you know, a place like that. That's my bucket list membership. It never probably never happened, but I'm holding that up my head one day. I never say never there.

What's the, is that the best course you played or what's your favorite course you've ever played? That's my best, that's the best in my favor. It's just, it's tough. Obviously, it's, it's a hard course, but the, the, the views you get out there and it's second and I think today, I'm a big, I'm a big leaves and trees and a fall guy, that scenery with that layout that they have is pretty remarkable. Well, have you had any pro golfers reach out to you at all, you know, either helping you with your game or encouraging you on your competitive golf path or do you work with anyone, you know, on your swing or anything like that?

I'm pretty cool with some of the guys. DJ's has been really cool, Brooks, JT. I met Rory a few times back in the day. I was playing with the Knicks. I met Tony Funah. He was really dope I played in Ricky's amazing. I played with Ricky in the AT&T Pro Am and I played with him and Green's bro, what's the never-turning? Windham. Yeah, Windham. Yeah, my Kenzie Hughes is cool. St. John's Ballston kid. Keegan Bradley. Keegan is really dope. St. John's boss think he can.

Keegan Bradley. Keegan is really dope. I got a funny Keegan story and I really feel bad. I still feel bad about it. Oh, you're smiling. So you don't feel that bad about it. I really do because it was like one of those moments where you put your foot in your mouth and then it's just like fuck.

He actually hooked me up with a couple spots in New York because he went to St. John's or whatnot. So when I was playing with him next, he looked me out a few times, but funny, he can rarely speak. So I'm at the players championship in sawgrass. Saw there watching and whatnot. Friday evening, oh yeah, Friday, I'm not gonna go to dinner or whatever.

And I see him in the lobby and I'm like, oh man, whatever, whatever. So to just, to asked him how he played, I just, you know, I mean, what time you two out tomorrow and come out and watch? He missed the cut. That's all that cut. I was like, oh shit.

And you know, it's one of those things where you, you know, it's like awkward. Yeah. His lady's looking like the rinks. Like, it's like awkward. Yeah. His ladies looking like the things like it's like he was probably like you know I was upset and whatnot so it was just like oh shit man. Like I hate when I make a situation like that worse. I'm sure that happens all the time for that. What's yeah what's What's on your golf bucket list?

So that can be courses or achievement wise. What do you see your path going forward? I would like to get as good as I could be. And competitive golf, I don't know if I can, you know, that's tour level or anything like that. But that's obviously a lot of work in guys and really, really good who aren't even on the tour.

So people keep asking, hey, you have no idea. I want to disrespect these dudes and say I could. But for me, I really want to grow the game. I really want to have my own tournaments. I want to start one of my goals is to make an HPCU tournament to where, you know, we're getting as much notoriety as the NCAA championships. It was just so much, so much talent out there for our schools. And we just don't have enough resources

or do enough for notoriety for it. So I really want to go to the game and I aspect and be more of involved with the PGA program and try to get more HPCU schools have PGA program because a to get more HBCU schools, have PGA program, because a lot of these kids want to go into, you know, go majoring golf and want to do some things in golf to be really special and feel what they feel is successful. So as many opportunities I can recreate for these kids,

that's my goal, especially around this game, because I love it so much. And it's just a shame that we don't have the resources and opportunities to play the game and as early as other people. So that's my, that's my main goal. That's great to hear. And I want to pick your brain on. I hear the phrase grow the game so much.

And I almost roll my eyes at it. It's some, you know, at some point, because I feel like people misuse that phrase so much. And don't focus on the actual things that will help grow it. So what is that? How does golf kind of, you just laid out a couple of things there that I think are immediate in terms of, you know, you're talking about an HBCU championship. Like, I don't think people think it through in terms of what that can mean trickle down

in terms of junior golf. And people have an example for people to, you know, a different backgrounds to strive for something like that. I'm wondering if you could lay out, you know, in your experience and, you know, both growing up as a kid and also as more and as an adult, how do we do it, right? I hear a lot of ideas from people, but I don't hear a lot that, you know, are actionable. For me, again, this starts with giving kids something to look up to, some as inspiration. And I think Tiger has done that for numerous amount of races. For us, that's our, you know, that's MJ. That's like, he's, to us, he's, he's developed for, for, for have one person who represent,

you know, who, quote unquote, looks like you and that represents so many, you know, just the game alone and be, you know, the greatest that it gave so many of us, you know, hope to even try the game out because it's been, you know, in the African-American community, it's obviously an expensive sport, but it's always basketball, football, or rap or something like that. So when you give kids a different opportunity and different outlook, like, oh, I can, I can play golf or I can code or I can do anything other than just the stereotypical thing. Even now, like people ask me like, oh man, I had to do, I was like, oh man,

what does this you play? I was like, I don't play ball, but I'm a buffer. It's like, call for me, yeah. but I'm a golfer. It's like golf, I'm like, yeah, just giving kids a different outlook and different perspectives. That's my, that's my main goal. Honestly, when I post, I, I stop really posting a lot of workout videos and me, like, hooping and stuff and really try to post images and pictures of me on a golf course, because I know a lot of kids look up to me and want to see me, especially kids who look like me. So I want to give them that like them.

He plays football, but I love football so much. Just to give them, even if they want to just try it, just to figure it out, if you like it, they have the opportunity to make up your mind and to have that space to if I want to, or if I just in case if I do like the game, or end up loving the game, love and end up loving the game, we're gonna end up hating the game, whatever, just to give you the option. Yeah, the entry point.

That's what people need, even getting the thought process started. And I think I always say like, man, golf is a life sport, football, basketball. I mean, you can hoop until you're 60 or whatever, but I feel like at a certain point, your body starts to not treat you as well. And you know, in golf, like you can, you can play it truly forever and you're outdoors. That's just something really rewarding about doing that. And you know, another thing too is just it's a great, it's a great place for networking for, you know, for, for all kinds of backgrounds. So I, I, I try to advocate as much as I can for the game of golf for people that are not into it or want to get into it.

It's just, it's hard to learn, man. I know top golf and first tee and youth of course are doing a great job of introducing people to the game. And I do think there's a very good chance for it. But I think to your point exactly, that's why I love seeing so many different professional athletes congregate around golf and the little men I'm there feels huge.

I mean, you can't look at, like, I see so many people of different kinds of backgrounds, you know, graduating from professional other sports and playing golf now. And that makes it, I don't know, it makes it, it gives golf a cool factor, right? Which, it works like, I got made fun of for playing golf in high school.

I mean, that was just, that was the thing. And I think we're close, it's a, it's a thing that's gonna take a long time but we're close to golf, like really taking on a much more approachable, you know, look to it. I don't know. That's my opinion. Yeah, 100%. I mean, you got guys like MJ and Steph did with was right of cup, you know, and then you see like, you know, King Griffey Jr. You know, so many different guys, so many

there were guys, different sports and, and atmospheres, and you come together because of the game of golf. And you know, as for me, I know for sure, if I'm a young 9, 10, 11 year old kid, black kid who looks up the stuff, Curry, or trying to figure out who Michael Jordan is, or you know, obviously King Griffey and whatnot. And I'm, you know, following these these guys like, I'm definitely intrigued on them playing golf. Like, what is it about the game at this point? So it's the platforms is there. I just think it was more of, it's got to be more of a responsibility for me, to me.

I mean, MJ's done so much for the game of golf already with just golf shoes and a couple of sponsorships of some of the guys having his own golf course. And the experiences that he's gone through in certain instances, in certain country clubs with people and stuff like that, just to hear that, to translate into him

and own his own golf course and stuff like that. As a young black kid in this country, you get to be inspired by the game. They're not only just by the people who've laying foundations in the forefront of front of front. And then MJ and Steph Curry and King Griffey Jr. They're those guys of pillars in their sports and they're bringing their following over to the game

of golf and it's making the game so much better. And the game, like you said earlier, the game was like, the game is a lot of life lessons. It teaches you integrity and honesty and not only with your counterparts, but with yourself. You can't cheat yourself. You can't sit up there and say,

I'll I got a four and no, you got to know Dan. Well, you got a six. No matter what you're gambling for, they let you get away with it within the bit you feel that inside forever Have you played golf with MJ? I? Haven't no Whenever we see each other we talk smack all the time we haven't actually got a got on the match that got you about Larry Fitzgerald out here You you've played with some with him. Yeah, Larry man Larry Larry's probably one of the greatest human beings I've met on this planet man. He's he's such a great dude. He's I mean, he he he talks a lot of smack on the golf course course. He's he's the hell of a competitor. But is he a sandbagger.

He gets he gets some flack for his handicap because he wins a lot of these amateur events. I'm gonna tell you why Larry gets flack at these events. Larry, I think he's like 10 or 11, right? Something like that. Larry is a 10-ary level because Larry plays at Whisper Rock. He plays at Seminole. He plays at a Whoopi. He plays at every top 20 club in the country. Yeah.

He doesn't play rinky-dink public tracks or whatever. He's playing the toughest tracks every time he steps out and he's literally punching in every single school. So if you do it like that to me, I mean, it's just gonna happen. I mean, you playing, you know, top 10 course, you hit that thing out of bounds nine times out of 10, if you're the amateur golfer, it's still gonna be hard to get it up and down or in for just

bogie. You're going to make some doubles and triples for sure. Have you been to a hoopy? I haven't. Okay. You got to put that one up on your up on your list as well. What are some of the, what are some of you, you know, you talked earlier about some of the, you know, public courses and off the beaten track courses that you've really liked? Is there any examples that come to mind of places that really speak to your soul public tracks. We have a spot in Greensboro's two 18s is champions and the players called Brian Park.

The champions is one of my favorite courses. It's just so the back nine is so beautiful. It's on the lake. Yeah, there's what is it is spot and Cleveland and independence. A lot of my own other names, but beyond the public tracks, but when I once I get hit to it, I'm just a repeat offender, you know, I just go back and back and back and back. So it's tough for me, but there's another spot Charleston Springs down here in Jersey, South Jersey, by my mom's. It's right actually. It's right next to Matiti Khan, Jim, three nines, another second and best practice range I've ever seen. Next, Pine Valley, but Charleston Springs is really good. It's a really good public track. It's a lot of, um, we call Fescue's a link style spot. It's really nice. Did you travel with your golf clubs in the NBA? I mean, and what's that like? Does it go on the team playing? How's that work?

Every trip. So I used to play when I first started. I was playing in Denver. I would bring my sticks. It actually made one of my coaches really happy. What's I hated as a guest as I really didn't care. It made him happy, but I got to New York. I would travel with my clubs, Woody, because what's in he play golf, so we used to play golf a lot on a road.

When I got to Cleveland, I stopped playing as much because they had this stigma about me and not being focused, wanting to do this, wanting to do that. So I wanted to show everybody that I was just going to play basketball, just going home, be a model citizen, whatever, whatever. Doing things I would normally do, but obviously being in New York and being, but I would travel in my clubs. And then we got to the year we lost in 15.

So I didn't play and go to stay. I played in Atlanta, Kyrie got hurt, K-Lo have got hurt in the first round against Boston. So I didn't play in the finals. The next year, after losing, I didn't do anything. Didn't play at all, didn't carry my clubs. I was just laser focused on trying to win a chip. The next year, everybody was telling me because I had a lot going on with my daughter.

She just came out as a pre-me, and just came from back for being injured, broken thumb, and whatnot. And it was just a weird situation. So they were like, man, you need to play golf, just let the stress out. You know, you got a lot going on, whatever, whatever. So my eye weird, real situation. So they were like, man, you need to play golf. Just like to stress out, you know, you got a lot going on, whatever, whatever.

So my eye cooled, play golf. And they catered me for it. And they had to be for it. I missed a couple of team dinners because the traffic and whatnot. And some of the guys weren't too happy with me. So then the next year it comes back. I didn't, I didn't play golf. I don't know where some stigma started going around.

He loves golf more. He loves basketball. Just like, you know, at that time, they wanted to play, I forgot who it was. They wanted to play somebody else ahead of me. So they didn't get something to go to Brown with. So they're like, you know, like, you know, make it a reason for them to bring me off the bench.

I'm like, there is no problem. If you want to break me off the bench and then he thinks he's better than me, you buy all of me as you do coach, you can do that, you know, whatever. But don't try to make it seem like I'm more focused on golf than basketball. And this is the final. So that's ridiculous. Is that how really health things flowed through Braun? I mean, I'm a LeBron fan.

I've been a LeBron fan for a long time. I'm really curious as to how that communication flows. Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, everything flows through Braun. I mean, I love Braun definitely, you know, but you think about it. It's like he's LeBron James. You think you can about to make a lineup change

without confronting him, like letting him know. Like, you think about it, if Phil Jackson's going to make a lineup change without confronting him, like letting him know. Like, if you think about it, if Phil Jackson's gonna make a lineup change, you didn't think he went to Michael Jordan and said, hey, I'm about to switch it up, what you think. And people, and I hate, like, people try to make it seem like he's the coach,

or he does too much, he has too much input on this. Like, if you think about it, like, you think these guys wasn't going to lie, bird, and I said, Thomas, whenever making a lineup change and stuff, like, hey, Like if you think about it, like, you think these guys wasn't going to lie bird and Isaiah Thomas would never make a lot of changes and stuff like, hey, what do you think about this? Are you gotta be out to Dan Martin? Like, of course they're gonna ask them. And what you've been around, you know,

you've played with a lot of players, you know, of the course of your career. What is it like playing with the Bronn in terms of, you know, not just the basketball part, but the off court, like, you know, practices and communication and the desire to win a championship. I'm curious how you'd compare

that to any other players you play with in your career. No, I can't compare it to any body I've ever played with. His focus and drive, determination and to be great as well as his, he's got a knack for people, you know. Obviously, he's LeBron, he's icon and people just gravitate to him or whatever, but he's like, he can remember a conversation we had when we were 16 in Akron at his house then, you know, like he's his memory of who people are and what things happen or occur is amazing.

You know, just a credit to who he is as a not only as a person, but just his mind. You know, people look at it as the basketball mind. He can obviously, he can still sit there and tell you every game he played, play by play as the game went on. And you know, you talk to Tiger and he's like, I was watching interviews and stuff and he'll sit and tell you, shot these hit 12 years ago,

15 years ago, what whole, what shadow you's trying to hit with his mindset was and all of that, and it's like, Panstool is really great. That's amazing. But then again, you go off the court and it's like, he's one of the most caring people, but it's different. Like the way I tell him all the time, like bro, you got to, you might as well run for president. Like, you move like the president already. So it's like, I don't know.

The physical strength and athletic ability at the age he's at now is what just blows my mind. I mean, it just takes such unbelievable discipline. I can't really, I can't really understand it. Let me, let me, if I'm, if I'm unloading some basketball questions here, going back, you guys are down 3 1 and 2016 and honestly, how much belief was there in the room down 3 1 against a 73 and 9 team in that time frame? time for you. When the game was over, we were furious. Like, it was, you know, it wasn't even, we were so upset to the point where we weren't even, nobody was like, you know, going off in a locker room. I was cursing somebody out. Nobody was slamming shit and stuff like that. We were so furious within each individual being like,

it was so quiet in there. And it was like for T'Lu, it was like he didn't even have to say. The flight back was eerie. It was like a six hour flight, five and a half. And literally crickets, the whole flight. When I tell you, one of the by far, not even close, the most United team I've ever been a part of was the quietest plane ride ever for five and a half hours.

It was like you were in like, you were the thought it was a regular United flight or something like that and we didn't know each other And when I tell you This is what I mean it's 2022 I don't think it's been day at day where our group chat has it ringed off Wow, they'll go like non-stop and it's crazy because that tells you from me in that moment, like we cared about one another so bad that we didn't want one another to lose.

You know, I didn't want, I hated when people was tattooed and you know, I still do compare MJ to Brian. But when you're in the heat of that battle, you hear the noise from the outside. You really take it on like they're talking about you, bro. Like, like, you're talking about me at this point. Like, I'm not helping him succeed to do his job to where he's being looked at as degraded. So that's on me too.

You know, and I looked at it like that with Nello, with AI, with Chancel C, or all the CP, all the guys I play with because it's like, if you're not being the superstar that you are, then it's my fault because I, it's my job to help you. You put up the numbers, you're the all-star every year, or whatever, whatever. It's my job to help you.

Isn't it like, I find it insane how much scrutiny and pressure comes on the best player of a 12 man team legacy wise. In turn, like if you're talking about some of those calves teams that LeBron brought to the finals and like he gets his finals record cited against him, to me, they just got like those people didn't play basketball like you have to understand how important the eighth guy is on that team. It's not as important as the first player, but like you can't win without a strong eighth man or seven man or say like, do you see like way too much emphasis credit and blame being put on the top players like, you know, you could name anybody in the NBA. Yeah, I mean, I think so. A lot of it is just, that's what sells, you know, and it's like for, I've watched players

turn into commentators and change positions on the way they think in the way they act and the way they carry themselves. It's just like, bro, you don't have to be like that to be on TV or whatever you think you have to do. Like you don't have to say it and do the things that you do. Like I don't, like it's the thing I relate to Shaq. I don't have no problem with Shaq Shaq because a good dude to me, he never really did nothing

to me like that, whatever. But like when you talk about, when you talk about players in a person in your position, like you Shaq, bro. Like to me, if I have a problem with a player or don't like something the player is doing and I'm Hall of Famer, everybody looks at me like big bro, whatever,

I should be able to call you and like, yeah, man, just to, you know, try to give you some guidance, shed some light on, look, whether you, I do like what you don't or I don't like what you don't, but just to give you, try to help you through the situation. Situation with Donovan Mitchell. Like you don't have to say that on TV. If you want to quote on do well, whatever, whatever, whatever. If that's what you really mean, but to say it like that in front of millions publicly like that, like you don't, nobody deserves that.

The type of scrutiny to anybody, you know, especially after you just won, you just won a game. Now I got to go home feeling like, because Shatjit just went at me pretty much. But now I'm supposed to feel confident, but I'm not, I can't feel soft or anything like that. I can't feel some type of way because now I'm mentally, I'm mentally,

what do you call it? I'm mentally midget or like it's, you can't win. Yeah. Do you miss playing hoops? It seems like you missed it, Sam. You know what, I miss playing. I haven't played since August 17th. I know it's like just to pick up one of my PJ Harrison had a little pro

Emily and Greensboro and I played out there. But other than that, I haven't played. I miss it a lot. I just missed the gym honestly walking in the gym. My routines touching the ball, stuff like like that I don't miss the NBA just because I miss the NBA because playing against the top guys and the camaraderie of it that's what I've grown to accustomed to know as far as where I felt comfortable in and being able to if I had something on or mentally I could always get in the gym and do whatever I need to do, whatever, just that The sense of comfortability. I don't miss the

Politics of the game the propaganda the game the way we slander one another as black men in the game Like around the game. I don't I don't like that. I don't understand that aspect of it. So that from that side of it, I'm happily removed. So it makes it easier for me. Who's the hardest player in the NBA to guard? Hardest player in the NBA to guard. I would have to say either Katie or Kyrie. There's probably two greatest offensive players I've ever seen, but Kyrie definitely. Katie, that's something we've never seen before.

It's just so easy for him to score and be efficient. Kyrie, he's probably arguing for me the going at the greatest scores of all time because he can score at every level. Finishing right hand, left hand, creativity, mid range handles three pointer, off the dribble, spot up, free throws, contact. I mean, with the ball, he just, he's a magician. He does it all, not so many people can do it all. You know, there's always somewhere,

somebody's pretty much lacking in it and an offensive area in their game where you can see the, you know, people rely on, talk about James, he's just relies on free throws. People you can see that, you know, people rely on talk about James, you just relies on free throws. People talk about Yannis, he just runs to the back, he just goes dunk or whatever. But for Kyrie, he's like a really a scientist at work,

he's really like, you know, though two post-ups in there, although Spada 3, I thought I'd pull up 3, although couple layups in there, free throws, mid-range jumper, like his, So a couple of layups and three throws, mid-range jumper, like his, I said, he's the technician, he's the master's in his work, man.

And then around him for those couple of years, just like, it was amazing. Cause the stuff he would do in practice and we would do everything. Like him and Brown were always like, play against each other. And he'll go on, Brown will go on the second year and he'll play with the first year

and just to make it, Browne'll go on the second unit, he'll play with the first unit just to make it, you know, so more competitive. And we used to like, Browne would throw schemes at him, they'll double teams, throw triple teams, go boxing one, go try them on two. And Kari was just like, it was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. Yeah, I could see you're talking to you for an hour.

We're gonna close this on a golf question though. What is your career low? What's your best round ever? I can't say I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game.

I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm a big fan of the game. I'm feeling more comfortable with managing different golf courses. I manage my game. I feel better and more confident with that one thing I can say about college golf, it's made me hone this in on my areas of my game instead of just going out there, spraying it. So, well, man, this was honestly one of my favorite podcasts

we've ever done, absolutely fascinating, chatting with you. We look forward to following your golf career and we got to do this again sometime, please. We really appreciate your time, fascinating chatting with you. We look forward to following your golf career and we got to do this again sometime, please. We really appreciate your time, Chair. Thank you. Appreciate it.

It's a good right club. Be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.