No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 565: LIV Golf is here

Episode Date: June 10, 2022

The inaugural LIV golf event is underway in London ushering in what is sure to be the most chaotic period in professional golf in recent memory. We break down the LIV event, the broadcast, the blatant sportswashing, the format, the next wave of players to sign up, the PGA Tour's response given its options and what comes next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Lenga podcast, not emergency podcast edition. This is just a can't wait. This can't wait until Sunday as the tides of professional golf are changing right before

our eyes. Sully here, calling in from where are you guys. Sully here calling in from, where are you guys, where are you calling in from? TCS here, hello TCS. We're in Milwaukee. This is a touch base podcast. We're just touching base.

Okay, DJ Pi is sitting in a bathtub to record this. So there's not an echo. Hello DJ Pi. Yeah, greetings. Greetings, TCS and I, you know, we really wanted to forward the Lake Michigan before our Grand Rapids event. We wanted to take that long ferry. So we are in Milwaukee, and that's you know, we really wanted to forward the Lake Michigan before our Grand Rapids event. We wanted to take that, that long ferry.

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code NLU. They just drop some new hoodies and QZips. Perfect for spring. We're almost in summer actually now. I should say so check them out now and start off 2022 right with some rowback. I remember when you were playing that US up in local qualifier and you know, not a lot of conversation going on in the group until we broke the ice with like, hey, man,

I get those rowback hoodies. And he's like, oh my God, they're so good. He just went on for, you know, 20 minutes. That was with the youths, right? That was with the youths. If you want to look like one of the teens, you got to get involved. I was like a million over part.

And you guys are talking about hoodies. I was so mad at all of you. I was mad at the world. I didn't want to do, I don't want to deal with anything right there. But today was the first day of the new era of professional golf. I think it's fair to say. I think we're, you know, nothing could,

the strongest endorsement I would say for the work we've done has been, I got tweets today that said, you guys are shills and getting paid by the tour and that we are shills for live and getting paid by them. So I think we are effectively doing our job. Well, that's how we get a fully that fairy right. Where we can pay for everybody.

If anybody thinks we're shills for live, I don't think they've listened to the podcast at all. First day of the rest of the professional golf future, Mackenzie Hughes, that's 66 today. That's Canadian Open. That's the big takeaway. We're going to talk about the vibe, the rink today up at St. George's at the Canadian Open and RBC. What was the most memorable shot from Mackenzie Hughes' round today? No. That's a true. The more things change, the more they say to save me. Oh, no, I will say. How was the thing that they suspended above the course? Guys, I got a confession make. Didn't watch the RBC Canadian Open today. I don't know how that worked out. But I will say, there are going to be some things that we are going to say

on this podcast about the first live event that Maybe borderline positive. I don't I'm sure that Twitter will react very rationally to that and not at all try to Incorrectly point out inconsistencies and things we're saying, but I got to say there were some things today that I was somewhat impressed with and I only think I'm upset with myself is underestimating how much a huge fat stack of cash can buy you in terms of like production quality value and the amount of people that they had prepared to actually run this thing. They were more prepared for this than I thought they would be. That's on me.

I will own that one, and I will say, like, honestly, I had very little issue with how the presentation of the golf went. I think it certainly helps when there's no commercials. That's what I was going to say. I think what's really, really tough about this and what you need to use, I think, as I shouldn't say need to, you can, you know, if you love today, then Godspeed, man, have fun with the future of professional golf. But I think the thing that you kind of need to use is like a governor on all of these takes is a how much more fun is golf to watch when they're you're not constantly getting interrupted every

90 seconds, right? That's, that's I think something all golfers can agree upon like oh my gosh when you show the golf shots, this is a pretty compelling thing and be like huh why were they not interrupting and why are there like no commercials? oh that's right because it's like sports watching for like a murderous regime and like there's no brands associated with it so like you know don't don't sleep on that that's not like like oh this is the future this is the future this thing see like they figured it out like no man like they just figured out because they have a blank check and they don't have, it's not a real business model. It is just like, it's just lighting cash on fire,

which again, if Elon Musk or someone else wanted to light cash on fire to create the world's best golf product, great. But I don't know that that's sustainable as a project going forward, which I'm sure we'll, we'll get into. But yeah, I think every time you kind of feel that tinge of like, well, I'm like, kind of enjoying this for me. It just kind of like took me back to like, Oh, wait, why is this? That's because this isn't like a real business model. That was a takeaway I had and something I had in my notes here of like, never forget why this is possible. Like, maybe pro golf is broken to the point that like you can't

display it this way without it being funded by somebody who truly just doesn't care about money or has the money to Or golf. Yeah, or golf. It has the money to burn and it has has a bigger play in mind with all of this. And again, if for Somehow this is the first you're tuning into this or you're just getting caught up on this situation or you end up on this podcast episode because you wanted to learn more about this. The, this funding is made for the purpose of what many people are calling sports washing, what we are calling sports washing

of making the actions and the business tendencies and whatnot of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia more normalized. And my question for you guys is, is it working? Do you see this working? This, their goal of this being sportswashed, of everything being more normal with Saudi Arabia, is it working or is it going to work? Yeah, I, I think it's already working, right? And that's the most depressing part about it.

Let's talk about that in a sec, because I think talking about the, the nuts and bolts of the broadcast today part about it. Let's talk about that in a sec, because I think talking about the nuts and bolts of the broadcast today is a good starting point. It's a Keith Herschelund, he's a long-time golf channel producer, I think one of the OGs over there. Like they showed it, it was, you know, it was surprisingly good, like you said, Sally, like I'm in the golf,

like it's tough to, because there's no context, right? Like the golf doesn't mean anything. They're saying, oh, like here's the, so basically they did, they did the intro and Jerry Fultz, who, you know, I like a lot, was just breathless, you know, him and Arlo and just very breathless, you know, intro of how excite, you know, the level of excitement, DJ saying he's never been this excited for a non major before. Since he played in a major, which was just his last start, that is as worth pointing out.

I, if I may double down that TC, I think Jerry Foltz was straight up embarrassing. Like I totally told old Al, that was where I was going to get. Like it was, it was, it was to the point of like, holy shit, man. Like you're like, this is, this is really, really like reprehensible. I tried to stomach that like he was, he's paid his dues, he's done this, traveled all around the world and the LPGA tour and probably for not much money, relatively speaking

and it was just gonna call the golf, was gonna be there to be the golf expert. I didn't have in the budget that he would like, be riding for this thing and straight up spewing propaganda about sold out crowds. Like they literally gave away tickets. Like Big Randy 25 was probably an active, any player, code 25 and you got a free ticket,

and they're talking about it being sold out, and none of that energy was passing through the broadcast at all. And like, it just goes to show like how hard they're going to work to try to make this it seem like it is real golf. And it's just it's just not like I watch so much of it today guys. I think I can remember three shots. DJ hit a three wood off one, Phil hit a driver off one and Kevin not hit like a iron to like 20 feet.

And that's like the three shots I think I remember from the whole day, like the golf straight up doesn't matter. That was kind of where I was going to get. Like there's no context. The golf doesn't mean anything. So, you know, it's like watching a, it's like watching a corn fairy exhibition with a couple of guys that are, that are coming down from the PGA tour. They did a whole lot of like quad screen and like split box stuff. I didn't watch it for that long. I watched the intro's, I watched some of the first T interviews, which were super awkward. Like that interviewer was terrible.

Just straight up, very leading questions. And, you know, like even Mikkelsen was relatively confused, I think, by it. And then yeah, and then it just kind of starts off. And like everybody just, it was like like it was truly like a shotgun start. Like everybody just it's like ready set go. And the action starts and you're kind of just dropped into it. And you know, to a certain extent, like I'm kind of cautiously optimistic on the the shotgun start thing. If you got a good producer and it's like a red zone channel kind of thing. I think it I think it might have legs as a change of pace for.

You know, you're you're weak to weak PGA tour or golf tournament, but the fact that like let's say we get to Saturday and there's a good finish in this thing and somebody comes from one or two groups back to win and is finishing on one or two instead of 18. Like what the fuck? Like how does that work? Right? But just like it's just all of a sudden it just starts and all the teams are warming up on the like it was just a weird. The whole thing was weird and it was like wait, like this actually seems relatively competently produced. But then I'm kind of reminding myself

of, where are they? Why are they doing this? How does this factor in? And none of it matters. So that's kind of where I'm back to, all right, then what's the point? Right? That's kind of where I was, too.

And again, I'm going to say this 75 times over the next five years, over the next five weeks, over the next five days. I am holding out full judgment until to see what happens, because if this is where the future of pro golf goes, if they get 18 of the top 20 all of a sudden, and this is what top tier professional golf is, then like we got to kind of recalibrate, like what it is we do and how people watch golf and what anything means. So like having said that, it's not that yet, and I can't express to you TC,

I've watched a lot of the same parts that you did. Like at first, I couldn't look away because I was like, this is dystopian and like I can't believe I'm watching this was like, this is dystopian and like, I can't believe I'm watching this and what is this? Once you turn it off, I can't tell you how easy it was to turn it off. If that makes sense, you know what I mean?

And that's speaking to your point, like there is no context and like nothing means anything. And I think the smartest among the smartest takes on this whole topic, I think that I've heard is, was from Porath on the shotgun started a couple of weeks I've heard is, was from Porath on the, shotgun started a couple of weeks ago, months ago, whatever it was,

talking about like basically liking it to NBA free agency, right? Where like everybody loves, oh my God, did you see so and so tweeted that emoji? What does that mean? Who's going where? Who's going to be the super team? Oh, can they play together? Whoa, it's bomb.

Whoa, it's bomb coming in. And then all of a sudden, like the regular season game started, you're like, oh, well, yeah, I'll see you guys in the playoffs. Like, I don't actually care. I just, you know, it's fun to watch all the drama. And that's exactly how I have felt about this. It's just like, oh, you see how fucking stupid the logos are?

Oh, my God. Did you see like what Phil Warner, the draft party, oh, and that stuff is like merit. Like that is, that has merit from a entertainment product standpoint, but dude, that can't be the whole thing. It can't be all whipped cream. Like, you can't really survive on that. And that's where like,

Tron, I were just talking about it, like coming up the stairs in the hotel here, is like, what happens in week five, or what happens when the when the trickle of players stops. And these guys are in like jettah or, you know, Thailand. Thailand. Yeah. I'll go back to my caveat that like what was going through my head today was like, damn man, if this was 48 guy, like if this was numbers one through 48 in the world. And these were established teams that like, which I know is unfair because this is day one. But if these were established teams that were picked

and I had a team that was like, holy shit, it's JT and Dustin Johnson and Max and oh my god, they just signed like, you know, trying to just sign Nikolai Hoigard and like he's supposed to be a killer. I can't wait to see what he does today. How's he going to fit with the squat? Like, sign me up for that, man. Like there's a lot to like from the team golf aspect from all of that. Like, especially when you build out like a meaningful infrastructure, but yet today when it's like, yo, I literally all I fucking do is watch and follow and talk about golf. And I don't know who half of these guys are. Like, how are you? Man, like, no thanks. Unsubscribe. Please take this away as fast as you can. It is very much worth noting that exactly what is making this league work right now, the piles and piles and piles and piles and piles of money from Saudi Arabian government

is also what's gonna hold it back from being what you just described, from being the solution. Like, unless the ROMs and speeds and JTs and RORIs are totally full of shit, like you're never gonna get those guys with these guys running it and these guys funding it, right? So at best, we're gonna get a fractured golf world.

That's where like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of good from this. It's completely ignored the source of the money and like, who's playing in it? Because there's not really any exciting players playing in it. Do you talk about the shotgun start? Look, is that my favorite thing ever? No, but like it, it worked pretty good. It was, it was exciting at the very beginning.

And what it did, it gave the start of the golf, the exact time when it starts and the exact time when it ends, which like I said, it covers golf. I struggle with like a US Open Saturday. Do I need to be watching at 9.30 AM to see how the 13th green reacts? Or can I pick it up when the leaders like T off? And it was a defined made for TV product

that was kind of like, of course, the great idea, they stole it from the fucking PGL. Like all the things that were working really, really well for me, I'm like, oh my God, that's a PGL idea. That's a PGL idea. That now what's really, like team golf can be really exciting. What's not exciting, what's not good about this is the teams changing every week somehow.

Like, what the hell is, like, where's the affinity for that? Neil said it great on the business breakdowns podcast. He was on, it's like, they's the affinity for that? Neil said it great on the business breakdowns podcast. He was on it's like, they're building the plane while flying it is, it was like a great analogy for how this is going. I will say like, I think for day one, the flight got from point A to point B without anybody dying on it as that, that we know of. And, which do you see that's the, that's the United business plan. Shut up. No, that's all. Yeah.

That's it. Nice to got there. Whereas that's all. Yeah, it's not. It's the guy there, whereas, you know, you know, it's so it's not like going back to the positives today. What else was positive? Honestly, if I'm going to say a positive for them, because I don't think it's a positive for golf fans. I don't think it was fun to like 20 minutes in. I'm like, okay, I don't like I got it. I don't feel like I'm going to miss anything by watching it.

Like I kind of, I got it. I don't feel like I'm going to miss anything by watching it. Like I kind of literally, I tuned, I threw on PGA tour live or ESPN plus or whatever to watch the Canadian open to feel something. Like, you know how, like that's dystopian in them itself. But I think a takeaway I had was if I was a player and I didn't care where the money comes from and you have to understand there's a lot of players. The guy I wrote, I wrote a new book today with a guy that I had to explain like this is like this is where the money's coming from. This is like the moral issue here. He's like, oh yeah, well, I didn't really thought of that.

It was like if I was a player that didn't care about that, I would have had a little FOMO. It like would have kind of looked fun. Like all these guys are getting this much cash and like, they only got to play three days and there's like this. There is kind of a weird energy about it. It's not necessarily coming from the fans, but it's kind of like a, man, I might have missed the boat on this. I kind of want to do this. Like, like today was actually a weirdly good commercial for anyone sitting on the fence about it and has watched the dudes that went over early, taken all the hard questions, you know, got punched in the face. It's going to be more normal the second time around, maybe not with US media, more US media on site, you know, with it being in Portland, but I felt like they kind of broke

a barrier down today in terms of the the sole as people that are willing to take this money are probably feeling a little bit of phoma with it. I think a good, a good thing for people to have in their back pocket, whatever is they the sole as people that are willing to take this money are probably feeling a little bit of phoma with it. I think a good thing for people to have in their back pocket whenever they get into that conversation, I was talking to somebody, so he's kind of in the game and represents a player and they were kind of explaining the player wasn't interested

in whatever, and whenever you get into one of those like, oh, fuck, dude, it's a lot of money. So you're not gonna take that, it's a lot of money. There was kind of pushing back, and like, well, like, are you gonna watch it? They're like, well, I mean, like, no. It's like, well, yeah, like, don't you think that's a problem, like, long term?

Like, maybe isn't that worth, like, isn't that worth something in this conversation of just, I would even split, I mean, split Saudi Arabia out of it, just put it in like Belgium or Canada or something, like, and the government of Canada invests this much money in, you know, the government can, you know, I know people hate Trudeau and all that. But like, let's get real political. Yeah, you know, just, but just say, like, hey, like, you know, or like the state of Vermont is, you know, what, they're going

to, they're going to fund the hell out of Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders. Their entire state budget is going towards this golf series, right? And it's like, like, why? Or like, like, why should, why should Vermont have this much sway over golf? Like, that's strip out all the political stuff. And however you feel about Saudi Arabia. And it's like, why should anybody have that much sway or that much control, right?

Well, I think the counter to that that many people would say is like, well, why should the PJ tour, right? And I think there's, but I mean, the PJ tour, like it or like like it or hate it, it's the players. Like the people who are literally is the players, right? For better or worse. It's funny to hear comments like, oh yeah, real cool. You're rooting for the monopoly here. It's like, no, like, let's just like,

can we back up and I know this is gonna be Apple's to Apple's and there's a, there's a million board lawyers that will poke holes in this. But like, imagine if the conversation was like, yes, like Steph Curry is gonna like leave the, you know, the NBA and go like, play in a league, like over in South, like a Saudi Arabian basketball league.

Oh, James Hardin might be going to, like Russell Westbrook, he's kind of past his prime, he's going to. And like, imagine if that's the, like, in what world is that gonna be better for the golf fan, right? And I, we've said this before, like, maybe, maybe this fractures things and breaks things down so badly that from the Phoenix rises the PGA tour in a new format. I also, we're going to get into some of the PGA tour stuff, but certainly feels like they missed

the boat on that. I do not think that this is going to fracture to the point of all they're going to restructure and totally steal the show now. They missed the boat on that. And like now these guys are running. They have so much money. We've talked about it so much, but it's gotten to the point where $100 million is a footnote in the conversation. And it's like, it's a total, like no one was shocked when the Bryson numbers come out.

I've heard Reads contract is between $80 million. That is, if it's 100, that's more than Phil has made his career on the PGA tour. And that's a footnote in the conversation. That is the plan for how much cash they're gonna drown this thing in. And that's where I'm just like, dude, how is this not gonna suck ass?

I think what's even trickier is just, I mean, these are all like, unconfirmed rumors, but some of the terms terms of the, of the deals, like the length of the deals is almost what shook me up. Like we're talking like, like five year deals, right? And that's where it's like, you know, these are not going to be like, they're not going to get through six months and be like, Oh,

man, like, not enough people are watching on YouTube, we better shut this thing down. It's like, like no this is like a very lengthy play. And they've been in golf since what 2018 was at the first Saudi international or 2019 whatever that one was like they're four years into this. Yeah they're four years into this like this is they're for the people saying like all they're going to get bored in five years and stop like no no we're like we're they're going like they're humming along. And you know what it took? It took these stuages, and I'm gonna steal that word from Aiman Lynch, the stuages that went and played

in all those Saudi international to tell them, like, oh, we can buy these guys off. Like, we can totally do this. Let's go bigger. Let's go way bigger. This is so much easier than we thought. Right, like, look at all these guys. Every year it keeps getting better.

And let's go bigger. He go into the elementary school. Tell, you know, finally has some friends, right? My thought there is like how, you know, taking the long-term view as well. Like, it sounds like there's another wave of guys, you know, it sounds like the South American guys are all looking at it now.

It's, you know, Pat Perez, Bubba, I mean, Bubba had knee surgery, but I know he's, he was in for those that don't know he was in the teaser for today. Like he and Wolf were in the teaser for today, which we know Wolf has gone paparrez multiple sources reporting his wife even comment on an Instagram, like, we'll see you soon DJ. Like he was going around talking about how he would never do it and how much they'd have to pay him. I listened back to his interview on golf sub parries. Like they need to be able to fund all my champions tour years too.

So imagine how much money he just got. Like he's good. After three months go saying he wouldn't do it. They met whatever that demand is. He's gone. What worries me a little bit too, trying to better be talking to you in the phone about this yesterday, but it's like that famous quote of like,

how did you go broke? Like really slowly and then all at once, right? Like this has been going on for whatever six, seven, eight years with like going back to like when the PGL conversations first started really internet and what I worry about over the next like couple weeks is almost the snowball of, like, saw I'm with you, the money's not gonna dry up on a macro sense, but the, like, the massive upfront money is gonna dry up, right? Especially the more critical mass, the more critical mass that they get,

the more, like, top players they pull, the more guys are gonna, like, the more that anxiety comes in about feeling like you're gonna miss the boat, right? To where it almost feels like you're gonna have, like, the rats running from the sinking ship in that like 50 to 100 in the world kind of Kind of tier right and that's where I think you get the like paparises and and some of those people that are like

Oh shit if I'm gonna get like a big ass check. I got to go. I got to go now and I think whoever said it Whichever one of you to set it on the podcast the other day like, look at how deep the fucking can it a field had to go. And I know some of that's like vaccine stuff from. There's another topic. That's the topic we should get into next. It's kind of about both, right? Where it's like, yes, of course, they can't lose JT,

spieth, rom, Rory, all those guys, but they also can't lose like the guys that those guys are supposed to be either right like you can't be Rory JT speed from playing against the plumbers and firemen either like that that doesn't work either So like you lose too many of those guys in that like 50 to 100 range and Hunkman like that's where it's like yeah, cool. I know it's been going on for six years But now we just lost everybody and you know a couple weeks and, that's where I feel like the wildfire gets out of control. The Bryson one is the only one that worries me from an entertainment standpoint to this point, right? It, uh, I'm like, who do you enjoy watching? Yeah, like, fuck. Totally. Yeah.

You need some villains though, right? Like, I mean, the tour, like, you've lost read, Bryson, Phil, Sergio. The PJ Torshid should file antitrust from a villain perspective on live. And like we can't compete with this. You guys have like harvested all the villains. You got you got a bad attitude going over there. You've got Bubba's, you know, Bubba-ness. You've got like it's, you know, I think part of it too is is playing this out a little bit, like, and we'll talk about the tour and the World Golf Rankings and all that, but on some level, like if, you know, if the top guys that have,

it's seven of the last 13 Masters winners are playing right now on the lived or right now. So I have a future commits as well. Yeah, that's sorry, including, including, but I mean, shit, Boba, Phil, read Garcia, DJ, Charles, you know, I mean, that's six right there. I'm probably forgetting one,

but like that's, and then Bubba's one twice, right? So that's seven. Like the way it's going to work, too, is like, even if the majors say, you know what, we're not going to, they jerry rig it so that the, the OWGR points don't add up to, you know, you can't get into the majors or whatever, but some of these guys still have exemptions or whatever. Masters probably has more latitude on who they can and can invite. So, we're moving through that very quickly and I know if you've been following this very closely, it's probably obvious, but unpack that a little bit in case people are coming to this late. Like, why is that important and what is like, what's at stake here?

That just seems like the only thing that matters, right? Like these guys don't give a shit if they can play in regular PGA tour events, because aside from the up front money that they're getting, they're also playing for $4 million first prize a week. Like, like, Andy Ogletree is gonna finish dead last this week and make $120,000 and granted, he's pissed away the rest of his career doing this. But what I'm getting at is like the, so they're,

they're, yes, they're playing for all this money, but they're not playing for OWGR points, at least not this year. And the reason that matters is for all, like all these majors is like the difference between the US Open is, you know, if you qualify for the US Open, it's really hard for them to keep you out.

If you qualify for the Open Championship, it's really hard for them to keep you out. The Masters is a true invitation and they can send invites to whoever they want. So they're kind of the only ones in the PGA is kind of a hybrid kind of stuck in the middle. But like they're kind of the only ones that can pull like hey, you're out and we don't really care if you don't like it. Yeah, but so so back to what I was saying, like like like the money's one thing, like these guys care about the money, they're playing for money, right? But the majors are the only thing that matters competitive.

Like you were saying, the US open, the PGA championship, British open, they've got a little bit more objective metrics. I think the masters changes year to year and all that. And I think at some point, guys like DJ are still going to get in. I mean, they've got, you know, unless they just outright ban them. And then I assume there's lawsuits coming from all over the place. I assume there's all sorts of challenges to world golf rankings where these are

54 whole events. There's been exceptions with 54 whole events before the hero world challenge other tournaments like that. You know, we'll see if they like I doubt they'll, you know, they've already tried to diminish the Asian tour in that regard, but basically there's not going to be any connectivity if these guys aren't able to get into the majors. And so then there's even less context, right? The like these guys are totally off on an island, not connected to the rest of golf. Now, I guess the risk that the major's run is are they diminishing themselves, right? Like if the master's bands more than half of the winners

of the last 13 years, is that, you know, is that a good thing for the masters? You could argue yes for the future, but you know, like at some point, that's an already limited field. I think the thing there is like then it's like all right It's the PGA tour waiting this out to where they can basically Control who the best ranked golfers are gonna be and it's a self-selecting field for the majors and then you basically replenish and

You know you've you've weeded out these guys that are that are in the You know, you've you've weeded out these guys that are that are in the Twilight of their careers and are just caching a big check and all that where like that's that's the big question now is like it's Greg Norman Does he have the horses in the back with the walkie Neemans and the Victor Havlins and you know all those and the Tony Finaus of like guys that are both You know have a decent track record already, but have a lot, you know, a lot of their career ahead of them. And that's where, that's where to me, it's super interesting to wear like, you know, this thing can either die on the vine and kind of wither away for the next two or three years. But they're spending this kind of money on a, on a guy like a fill or a Bryson. I can't imagine how much they're going to spend on a

hoveland or a more kawa or even a wolf. I mean, I know he's got a shitty attitude and he's not in a great place, but like, even then, you know, it's also worth noting that. All right, let's say they would have got Tiger, right? Does that really change anything for what their goal of this whole thing was is sports washing, whatever it is. It's not like viewership numbers, right? And they were willing to spend how much money on Tiger, high nine figures, right? Which he did not accept. So that gives you an idea of what this budget looks like, right? Yeah. Like it is, again, I can't, it's a feel like we've spent a lot of time talking about money, money, money, where it's to the point where like count count to a hundred. How long would that take if I sat here and counted to a hundred?

Like that's a million every second that that you know that's going to Patrick fucking read like it's insanity and I I really I really struggle to just I I'm struggling with like some of the reaction to it of like Competition is good for golf. How do you not know that? Competition is great for every business. Wake the fuck up people. In what way is this competition going to be good for golf? Well, it's an irrational actor. Yeah, it's somebody that doesn't, like it golfs not at the thing.

And I said some stuff on Twitter yesterday about on Wednesdays. So this will come out on what Friday. I said some stuff on Twitter yesterday about or on Wednesdays. So this will come out on what Friday. I said some stuff on Wednesday. And I'm just like, Hey, like if the tour carried more about their product, like this wouldn't be as easy of a decision for some of these guys. Or it wouldn't even be a decision for the second and third wave guys. I think the first wave guys were going one way or another, right?

Like they were like they're they're going to take the money. But the guys that are on the fence right now, like invest in the product a little bit more. And I know like, you know, you're dealing with these budgets and everything like that. But the product comes back too to like being able to discern and explore and be curious about other ways that it could look, right?

Whether it's the team stuff that also creates equity and revenue for said players, like being willing to have the conversation with the PGL or talking to a rain group who initially was with PGL or silver like capital who Mikkelson brought to the table or any number of equity or capital partners that they could have done. Like, you know what, beats money, like money. Figure that out and be a little bit more creative

in that regard, even if it requires having some tough conversations and some tough discussions about what your business model or what your structure looks like. And that's what Joel Beal wrote a great article for Golf Digest just talking about. Like he spelled it out, dude, it was like, the tour paid $12.5 million dollars for a few of their pip guys to go get 400 million dollars from like look at the comparison between those two numbers. Like they're so unbelievably

outgunned when it came to the funding that like what you're talking about T.C. like the fact that it is even more glaring that the the tour is, I'll say the tour is fucked, as we're sitting here right now. Like I think things are gonna get a lot worse for them before it gets better. And so do I feel any sympathy for that? When they had like so much of what the good part of today was, was laying at their doorstep in terms of,

look, maybe if they would have looked into the PGL and ultimately, you know, maybe if they would have looked into the PGL and ultimately, you know, given in a real earnest look and ultimately decided that was not best because blah, blah, blah. I could live with that a little better than like not picking up the phone, not engaging with them. After they tried for how many years to like explain to them, there is an outside one, there's an outside threat and two, like golf needs, this needs to change.

There needs to be a change here. There absolutely needs to be a change. and like this league is evidence of that It is evidence of like I'm hesitant to go too far down that because we again We're talking about a rational actor on this But the so much of what is good about today the 48 people if those was if that was 48 of the best players It would be extremely entertaining and that opportunity was brought to you to go take to the players to say, hey, do you guys want to do this? And it's probably gonna be worth a lot more money and never even got that far and now look at where they find themselves like I don't feel bad thing I mean think about like how excited some of the Georgia guys would be to like

You know have their own team you know, have their own team. Other, right? Like Brian Harman, Kevin Kizner, like, like if there were real teams and real camaraderie and real rivalries and stuff like that, like I said something about the teams today and people are like, oh, like the team stuff's bullshit. Like actually, I think there's legs with the team stuff.

And that's another way to like unlock a bunch of money for the players because that's seemingly what's important here to the players, right? And that's just where I get to as well. I was like, all right, like explore all of those options there and grow the pie on that front. I just don't know what the tour does next.

Hurry up and wait. And it seems like that's been their mentality throughout all this. Like we haven't talked about the letter that Jay sent to members yet today. We haven't talked about just, it just seems like they're sitting on their hands. They're gonna they're gonna ban guys, you know, it's possible that the major's bands like the master's bands guys. But at some point like if you know again, like if if Norman creates so much critical mass,

then it's like all right,, the tourist is basically waiting for the Saudis or Norman to get bored with this and hoping that it kind of whithers away. And that doesn't seem like a viable strategy. And I'm not disagreeing with anything that you guys have said. I totally agree. I just, I guess, have a tiny shred of empathy is the right word or are more just like understanding of why it went the way that it went. When you think about all the different interests that they represent, they represent Rory McElroy

as the same as Brian Stewart, you know, I know we always say that. Peter Monardi. Oh, sorry, Peter Monardi is the bullet sponge for your examples. And also, when you just think about as far back as like two years ago, or whatever, when they sign a new TV deal, right? And none of the live stuff has gotten off the ground. Nobody has signed. Yada, Yada, Yada, I don't envy, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't envy the task of them basically going in and saying like, yes, we just signed a new TV deal. Yes, persons have gone up fucking 9,000% over the last 10 years. Yes, they're

going to keep going up even more and more and more. Yes, the threat doesn't really have a shit together at all, but we're going to blow everything up and we're going to like, you know, we're going to start over just in case this one thing happens. I agree with that. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I get what I didn't have. But you gotta pick, if they would have ultimately decided that, I agree with that 100%. You gotta pick up the phone. You gotta pick up the phone.

You had to at least get to the doorstep of like, get intimately involved in that conversation of how it could change. And if you decide against that, if the players decide against that or present that information, decide against it, I can totally live with that. Then the tour was destined to break up in some way.

I'm a million percent with you on that, DJ. I don't think it's as simple as like, hey, fix the TV product, less commercials than we wouldn't be here. It's not that simple just to like, no. Well, and it's tough too to say, hey, things are going great. We just signed the biggest media rights deal

we've ever done. Oh, shit, the barbar things are going great. We just signed the biggest T media rights deal we've ever done. Oh, shit, the barbarians are at the gate. Just trust us on this. Like, I know it doesn't work like that. But at the end of the day, like, it's, you know, that's part of being a leader, right? Is knowing your threat, like, doing a SWAT analysis and knowing your threats, right?

And I think, you know, either they vastly underestimated what the threat was, or they don't have the tools to the tools or the ammo to fight the threat. And I think that's the thing that concerns me the most about where the tour is, right? And it's like, you know, I get to the point where I'm like, like, man, Jake, Jay Monthant seems like a really, really nice guy, but like, man, like,

all right, like it's Seth Waw, a better guy to be in this position. He's been in the M&A and banking world and all that or just like somebody that's a little bit more cutthroat or a little bit more creative thinking. Like, that's where I get is like, man, like you got to be, you got to be thinking three or four or five steps ahead. And it seems like and on top of that, like, I know Jay has been working behind the scenes and communicating with players and all that, but man, there's not any visible presence or visible leadership out there in front. And I know, I'm sure the tour mentality on that is to not dignify the opponent with a response

or not kind of pump them up by acting like it's a bigger deal than it is. But you know what? At this point, like, you're fucking houses on fire. And you're like, and you're like, you're like telling, you're telling the fireman to go in the back doors of the neighborhood. Right. Randy said that the other day of just, I know it's different. I know the leagues are different. I know all of those things. But to your point or other, like imagine Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook and Kevin, you know, Kevin Durant and James Hardin,

I'll go to play for the Saudi Arabia basketball league and you don't hear from Adam Silver. And like, he's just sending his players out to like answer questions about it instead at, you know, a random, a random Toronto basketball game. Like that's insane to think about. And, and I do want to go back to one thing you guys said, or I think you said it about Tiger. And, you know, would him have it like having him accomplish more of what they're trying to accomplish.

I think Tiger deserves, I mean, depending on your stance of, you know, all these things, I think it's very clear that we're very anti-live, I think it's very bad for everything in the game of golf. And so I'm going to say Tiger deserves a ton of credit for turning that down because he could have, he could have walked away with $700 million, $900 million, whatever it was. Go out, ride in a golf cart, play these like televised programs, televised like member guests for, you know, a quarter to three quarters of a billion dollars. And I think if he would have said yes, I think they'd have 40 of the top 48, like for the first event.

And I think the reason that JT is not playing and the reason that Roy's not playing the reason that All these guys are not there is like I think Tigers endorsement has so much to do with that And I think it's almost like the opposite of what we saw with Phil right? I think Phil Going galvanized so many these guys against this idea and and it's just It's crazy, man. I mean, what if, I mean, what would be, I don't know, Tiger is, Tiger's interesting.

I could see, if I was Jayne, honestly, I think I would be trying to beg Tiger to like play the PJ Tour events that are opposite live events at this point. Right. Like, Hey, Tiger man, like, I know that it's tough. We need you at the John Deere Classic. That like I have to joke about that, but I'm like half serious as well. And like, what the fuck other tools do they have in their tools?

That's what I was going to say is it feels like legitimately, uh, Jay, like going to Tiger, like pretty much begging just to be like, can you, can we get you on the offensive about this? Like can we get you making headlines about this? Can is the best way to prevent more players going for Tiger to come out and say like, look at who you're taking money from. Openly shit on. Look at who you're taking money from.

This is what, this is what, like the people that paved the way before you, like not even myself, like the Nicholas's, like lean on all that to be like, this is what the people that paved the way before you, like not even myself, like the Nicholas's, like lean on all that to be like, this is what, you know, the tour has made for you. And, you know, this is what the other guys are trying to do, and they're using US Ponds. Like if Tiger comes out and says that, like does that maybe stop the full on wave

of guys going? Maybe, I really don't know, but that seems like one of the few plays they have. So, I, I wouldn't use Nicholas in that example. This is probably it's my work for those tour players. You know, digital. No, but I think, you know, even just just get tired of just to show them for competitive purposes. Pride of like, you know, hey, like, what do you guys like, who are you guys competing against?

Do you guys have any pride? You're right. And because like that was the thing where, you know, like GMax getting out of the courtesy car today or Phil is getting out of the courtesy car and they're telling them, oh my God, are you excited to go play? Yeah, you know, like, let's go do this. Let's go do this.

And it's like, you're showing up for a fucking pro am. Right? Like you're like, like have some self respect, you know, and, and, and yeah, like you're making however much money, 10, 15, 20 million dollars to do that. But like, what happens when that like DJ to your point earlier, like what happens when you're in that second wave of guys or third wave of guys, and you're not getting the upfront money, you're just playing for those purses and I like another still big purses, but you know what like you know assuming the tour media deal doesn't doesn't disintegrate. Tour purses are going up astronomically as well. Like that's you know it's going to be something nowhere like those guys are going to have

a choice between two pretty good options on that front, but one's going to be a hell of a lot more serious. I would argue with saying tourpersons are going off astronomically just because that assumes that it's comparable to like what is going to be over there, right? It's just like again, it like yes, when you look at what tourpersons were and where they're going, it's like holy shit, man, they're dumping a bunch of money into this. Until you realize the event that is happening right now is worth more than the players' championship, which is the biggest while in that tour. Like it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, I'm saying to you, I'm saying to the audience, I'm just like, dude, this is, this is just a,

yeah, the scale is just absurd, but. Speaking of the players, just real quick, it's because I haven't heard his name at all. I'm just asking you to see what Cam Smith does. Because I feel like he's played in the Saudi event before. I think he clearly like doesn't have any moral qualms. I think he's like a budding superstar. He's like number three, four in the world. Right now I could see him being a very, I don't have any like info to this effect, but I could see him being a pretty a pretty sizable domino to fall. He's team lost too. Team lost seems to be deep in this thing. Team lost might have a pipeline good.

They might have the underground, the underground oil pipeline across the ocean. I said it's on Twitter today and I'm totally stunned that this may have gotten misinterpreted at least a little bit, but I said, my reaction after seeing 20 minutes of it was like, this is gonna work. Like this is going to work. Like this is going to work.

Not again, not for what we want to see out of golf. But like, is it going to exist and like get better in terms of the players they get and be like exist long term and be a big, big part of the college of professional golf? Like, I really definitely think so. And I don't think we underestimated that. I think we've been very consistent on this first field. It's going to be the worst one. It's going to get better.

It's going to be stronger. They have the deepest possible pockets and they're going to keep throwing money at it. And the one-sose checks clear. For those first round of guys, that second round of guys is going to be right there behind it. I underestimated a little bit how well they could put tournaments together and produce them, just mostly because we hear so much about

how hard these things are to do and they can't do this, can't do this and like they just show up and did it again, the no-cut. Although they don't have a leaderboard on their website. Which says so much. That says so much. Yeah, yeah, that's very that's like you can read a lot into that. You called it a member guest, but like no, every member guest I played in has golf genius and I can go check the leader board at night. I need to be like, if you mean literally they could have done fucking golf genius. You guys remember when CBS said they're going to change the game and they set up that confession mic. Oh, yeah.

And that was like their. Very cold. Right. Their. Their innovation. That was sick. Yeah, and that was like there right was a co-mitiser their innovation that was sick. You guys want to get to the letter? I mean, the tour as far as I know is these for instance, we've been

covering golf. It's the first time I've ever seen the tour announced suspensions. They announced suspending 17 players almost immediately. I think they announced when guys sometimes they'll just air out like

the PED guys or something. I forget who who that like does. I'm calling. Yeah, I'm calling. I'm calling people of that nature. But this is definitely, this is very different. This is very different. And that, you know, it started pretty strong.

You know, this is an update to the Saudi golf league, not calling it live golf, an invitational series using all caps with Saudi golf leagues event and London today. They used, wait, I missed that. They using all caps with Saudi golf leagues event in London today. I used, wait, I missed that. They used all caps. Sounded like it's like. It's like PGA torques. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, And then it kind of the first sentence ends and kind of sets the tone for the rest of it for my overall takeaway of like blah, blah, blah, we have followed the tournament regulations from start to finish and responding to those players

who have decided to turn their backs on the PGA tour by willfully violating a regulation. And the more I kept reading it, it was kind of like, this kind of reads like somebody's Facebook update, like pretty fresh off a break up that's like, I'm like, I'm the winner here. Or, I'm overstating exactly what's happened.

It's so bitter. It's very like, just kind of bitchy. And I'm like, dude, this is like your official communication of, it's too long, too wordy. And it kind of like, it gave the presentation, I guess, of strength towards the beginning, and then by the back half, you're like, oh, dude, I don't think they got it. It's like they don't have a way.

Yeah, it's a three paragraphs too long, and it's just like, hey, the people that left suspend them, like, I read it the first time, and I was like, all right, find whatever, it sends a good message, and then the more I read it, and how do you guys, the more I'm like, wait, like, those like three paragraphs too long and it's just really, it's just drug on and on and on

and it got like unnecessarily emotional and the money, money, money. Oh, God. I'm gonna do it. That's basically a big criticism of what these guys are saying to Jay of like, hey, like, that's what some of this is about and you're not, you're kind of under the,

that's what I said on the Sunday pod was like, listen, as a golf fan, we are, we are buying, like, we're okay with, like, we, we're not naive to the fact that you're going to make a lot of money, right? Okay. Like, this is part of the deal. I said that use the Steph Curry analogy of like, I know Steph Curry makes an enormous amount of money, but like part of the deal is like, he, the Steph Curry analogy. Like I know Steph Curry makes an enormous amount of money, but like part of the deal is like he tries his ass off for that team, right?

And like I got a problem with somebody making a ton of money in your communication. Like this kind of stuff, this legacy, not leverage, and like overplaying the dramatic spine the money kind of works for fan presentation. Like you don't want to give off the impression that your players are greedy. But if you're communicating to your players, if I'm a player on, you don't want to give off the impression that your players are greedy, but if you're communicating to your players,

if I'm a player on the tour, I want to read, hey, this is how we're going to make you a shitload of money, not like, oh, this is all about money for these guys leaving. If I'm reading that, I'm like, dude, that is your job is to get us money. Like, yes, this is about money in some capacity. Like, show me that you are prepared to at least give us a path to that. Otherwise, I'm like, shit, I are prepared to at least give us a path to

that otherwise I'm like shit I might start looking at this option. I don't have a soul. Yeah, I feel like he's the wrong guy to be talking about, you know, complaining about everything being about money, especially when they push that when they've gone towards the money. Yeah, it seems like look how much we're improving. I I think not to be the constant, like leave the PGA tour alone, guy. But I think, how much you can pay by the tour? How much are you gonna pay? Yeah.

No, I might need to catch up my pension no, the way things are going. I think this was for the fans more than the players. So like it's obvious this is gonna get out and it's gonna get posted everywhere and fans are gonna read it. So I think this was written for the fans much more than like, I don't think any players like sitting there today

and be like, oh, I wonder what Jay has to say about this. Because I think there was, you know, at a pack meeting last week. Big player meeting last week in Memorial where, and I suppose it says, we don't know what was like really said behind closed doors. So, so we do, but yeah. I agree though, also, it came off as like very smartly and and

it looked like I forget who I think maybe Porter said this on like a group chat or something, but like it's just a weird choice to lean into like look how much less money and how you're going to make over here and look how much more you're going to play at your work harder. It's like yeah it's against more guys for less money. Yeah, look at that. Look at how that's what it was. Look at how good these guys are over here. Like if you stay here, like I could guarantee you're going to make less money and you're going to have to beat way more good players. Like, yeah, fuck, I see where you're coming from. I totally get the whole, like the whole strategy of waiting until balls are in the air. And we got fine. Like, you know, I think you still be present and visible for that, but, you know, way to make a statement on that

until balls are in the air. But even then, like, we're in the kind of time of the year where they're getting ready to announce the schedule for next year. Because when I talk about the product as well, it's not just about like the money. It's about, there's only eight fucking events like guys with young families and guys that that don't want to play 20, 25 events a year, like it's been a big

criticism of the tour from top players and from mid-level players, even over the last few years of like, hey, like, I feel like if I take an off season for myself from the fall or I want to take a couple of weeks off in the spring, like I feel like if I take an off season for myself from the fall or I want to take a couple weeks off in the spring, like I'm going to fall behind in a FedEx cup. And these are the incentives that you've laid out for me, you know, all these bonuses to make money. Like the schedule is part of the product, right? And, you know, the way that the WGC's are structured and all that, like that's all that stuff is, you know, I mean, some of these guys like Adam Scott set it on our podcast, right? Like he wants to play more international. And the fact that

the PGA tour hasn't set up opportunities to do that when it's clearly lucrative to do so, you know, as a like from a product perspective, like they've missed the boat on that on the WGC's, the fact that the tour hasn't gone on the offensive and leaked some stuff as far as what the schedule could look like next year and said, hey, you know what, we're scrapping the fall series. We're going to do the three or four, you know, event team series, guaranteed money, top players only, that sort of thing. Like it just seems like at some point, they have to they have to offer something up other than just threatening their own players. And again, leave the PJ

tour alone, guy, but for anybody like turning into this stuff that isn't a crazy super psychopathic hardcore golf fan, like, you know, all of us kind of are and a lot of the people who listen to the show are, like, just some reasons for like why that hasn't happened, right? Is again, it goes back to the structure of the PJ Tour and it goes back to having too many members that you have to keep happy and it goes back to having executives basically bonus to on playing opportunities

and the goal at the beginning of the year is create as many playing opportunities for as many players as possible and so. Pervers and Senes. And it goes back to, you know, you can't take three months off in the fall. Otherwise, like this, this, like, live golf would have, you know, that would have gotten off the ground five years ago if there was, you know, it's the big three three month block of time where guys could go do whatever they wanted. Like there's, again, I don't disagree with anything. And at some point, you got could go do whatever they wanted. Like, there's, again, I don't disagree with anything. And at some point, you got to rip the bandaid off. Otherwise,

for instance, you know, a rival golf tour might come up and steal all of your players. But like, again, like I get why when everything's going seemingly perfectly, that stuff hasn't happened. It's just like this weird atrophy and all these barnacles and all these like things that just have... That's by a thousand cuts. Yeah, it's all these things that have crept onto a very, you know, I don't want to say bloated because it's not like that bloated. It's just a legacy incumbent organization, right? And it's just it's really hard for them to do certain things. And that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have done those things, but again, just to give a little bit of like, you're not going crazy, like they clearly have thought of this stuff. There are reasons why it didn't happen, you know? Totally, but also you

have to create the initiative a little bit as well, where like this week, we're talking about the Canadian Open, John Houston's playing in the fucking Canadian Open. John Houston, like the guy, the guy's not even competing, like, he's not even making cuts on the champions tour this year. All right. And like, there's no cuts on the champions tour. It was like, exactly. I'm Jackson, right?

He's, I thought there was a 36-holt cut on the champions tour. At the majors, at the majors. Okay, okay. Anyway, it's one of those things where like, you know, there's issues, and they can't even work around the fringes on certain stuff. Right? And I think that's what kills me is like, at some point,

like, you're not going to be able to solve big problems. If you can't even solve the small ones, and there's like the lobster in a, you know, you can drop it into pot of boiling water versus the water just gets hotter and hotter and hotter. But at some point, it's like, you know, drop it into hot, a boiling water versus the water just gets hotter and hotter and hotter, but at some point, it's like, you know, I know we're in agreement on this, like, dude, the fucking model is broken, right? Like, the government structure is broken. And I think that was part of the PGL's whole thing was like, hey, the reason the top players are underpaid and

even Rory, like Rory said it a dozen times, like he's unhappy with, you know, how much money he's making relation to other players on tour because of how this shit's all set up, right? Like there's clearly a problem there. That's where it's like Dean, you can't, I have a hard time being like Dean Beeman, man, why didn't you see this Saudi 300,

50, 20, 30, right? It's just like an inherited problem that they keep nipping and tucking. And it's like the plastic surgery thing. It's like you're just, you, once you're, once the Botox is bad, like you can't, you can't fix bad Botox, right? So totally, but, but, but the, the, the, the, the, the, Bogdanovs, I think, They've had to die. No, they've done. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, that's where I'm at though, is like we've had two years of like, he's got like, they're clearly doing this, right? And then Jay flies the mission accomplished banner during the players this year and says, we're moving on, we're moving on, like mission accomplished, you know what, we don't care about those guys, like you're moving on, like mission accomplished, you know what, we don't care about those guys,

like you're either with us or against us and a bunch of guys end up leaving and we're in this current scenario, right? And at some point it's like, you can wish the problem away, but man, like unless the majors come and bail him out, it's only gonna get worse. And on that note, like in the really dystopian future,

the people who end up getting boned are Rory and JT and Keith and Ron and Brooks and all those guys. I got a question. So let's say either the OWGR phase out, if the, if the live doesn't get OWGR and they get these guys get phased out of the world rankings. Don't qualify for majors anymore or the majors ban them. Is the money big enough to the point that at least looking at the guys that are playing in it right now. Are they okay with that?

Are they fine with like I don't I don't I've decided I don't need the majors like why do I need the majors like I don't really play competitive golf anymore like I play The you know the live laugh love tour over here and they pay me a shitload of money to do it like why do I need the US open like what do I need out of that I don't play for trophies anymore. So why why do you that I'm gonna get even more coddled too like is that I have to go play a real trophy or a real tournament with real rules officials and all that, not a PGA Tour event or a live event, like one with, you know, go have USGA rules officials. Like, yeah, no, that's a real concern.

I think it would probably just be guy to guy. I think there's a distinct amount of, you know, whether it's naivety or wishful thinking of, hey, you know what? In four years, this is going to look totally different. And there will be a path back in to the ecosystem. It seems like that's some of the, you know, hey, I'm going to get the bag now and then figure it out later. Because I don't know how I'm going to be able to get $50 million

up front. Yeah. Again, right? I don't know, man. I obviously don't know the answer to the question, but I think it's a pretty fascinating, like existential question, a pretty fascinating discussion question, and I wish you could have 11 or 12 beers with some of these guys and like actually get into like, Hey, man, like, why do you play golf? What's the point? And again,

we've said this a thousand times, But if you talk to Lee Westwood, I think he would probably say, well, honestly, man, like to make money. And I would, this is wildly unfair, but like, I would project that into a lot of like the major championship performances, right? And I thought, yeah, I'm serious. In like, dude, you play the PJ tour a lot. And you won one time, two times. I know, of course, TC, don't jump at me. I know we won a ton of European tour events. A lot of big dick events. Things of that nature.

But like, dude, look at the people in that field other than Dustin and Phil. Right? And there's a lot of guys that like have woefully under a cheeky candidly, you know? And I just, look look at Louis, right? And I just, I don't know, man, I think it's, I think it's among the most fascinating questions you can possibly have around this whole thing is like, why do you play golf? Like Taylor Gage,

why do you play golf, man? Are you there to make money? Are you there to try to win as many majors as you can? And I'm not high-grounding anybody like I don't I'm not telling them what their answer should be. But I think it's pretty fucking clear. Ian Paltar as a 46 year old guy with however old he is. And Justin Thomas have very different answers to that question. And I think that's fascinating. And it doesn't have to be either or like it's not like go back to being an amateur or make all the money in the world. It's like, right, like you can make plenty of money and try to win golf tournaments.

Like it's not another or there. I think, you know, their response is probably, hey, why can't we make it like that on this tour, right? But like that tour is not like inherently not like that, you know. I'm just going back to solid question about the majors, right? Like if it gets to a point where, just going back to solid question about the majors, right? If it gets to a point where they can't play the majors, I think that's the question that essentially you're talking about.

Yeah. And the fascinating and frustrating thing about all this is we're going to have like a long time to talk about all these things. Like these are the big picture things. I do want to get to a few things that happen today specifically, you know, to kind of wrap this up here. But one thing I will say about all this too, and we've actually given them quite a lot of compliments

for how this is done. I just want to also warn people, we haven't seen the catch yet. And when there's more money involved, then rightfully should be, there's a catch. I don't know what it is exactly yet, but there is going to be a catch to this. This is not going to be all joyous for all of these guys to be a part of this thing up. It's like year two, you have to wear the team uniform.

Exactly. And, you know, and that, you know, like you've got to wear the colon. That's the, what's that, which team is that? I think that's Stinger's. The Stinger's. I did that. T.C. How did that?

This is so fucking short subject. How did your boys crush as GC? Do today? They did find you line. I'm trying. I can't find a team leaderboard anywhere. I don't remember my team. They've done this whole team thing. Uh, you line shot even par chase, Kebka shot even par. I think he was on Michelson's team, the high flyers. Let me let me let me stop you there. We don't care. We're not going to go down the lead. You know what? How about no, I don't think it was crazy.

No, they shut 12 over another thing that was crazy is how bad they copied the PGL. So the PGL had this whole thing of like only a couple of the scores were in account and like you were going to play blind, but the captain had chosen What scores were gonna count did they so they changed it to just taking to the two best scores on the website is what it says But they didn't delete out the part that explains depending on what scores count like they changed that part of it But didn't feel they didn't It's literally just copy based. It's wrong. I don't know if it's literally copy based it but on their website They're description and a team play is not consistent. So which like They pretty like small amount of like little details like that that they got wrong

They had Hudson Swafford on their swap Swafford Hudson There's pretty plenty of golf fans that would make that's the state to be honest. I'm just trying to think of any ship. Any other big sporting out of the Phil's press conference today. All under the watchful eye of Greg Norman, who claimed he didn't see it or didn't know about it. Oh God, maybe the best sweet shot at the ship. Not maybe the best we'd have seen like in so long. The screenshot of the text.

Yes, Greg Norman. Do you see this? No, he had a text, Greg Norman, did you see this? No. He texted Greg Norman like, hey, I have no idea why I was just escorted out of your press conference. They said they were acting on your orders. What the hell is going on? Please call me.

And Norman responded, said, I hadn't heard about that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. And then Shipman said, wow, that's buddy. And he posted a photo of ship up being escorted out as Greg Norbert was literally standing what looks like 12 feet away from him, just like arms crossed, watching the whole thing go down. It's really good stuff.

Really really good. I will say shipnuck wasn't credentialed, was he? He just went as a fan, right? I think he had to have you. I don't have you, Phil. I would assume. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That Phil started the round with a blackout masters logo then changed that

What is sociopath I mean that was unbelievable This league man this league Like like I know the masters loves Stunting on the tour and there's like a whole tour in Ffiority complex about, you know, around the players and the masters and all that. But like, and there's been like decades of that, right? But like, I think at this point now, it seems like between Big J and Hurley, and Finchham and the Riddler and, you know, all that.

Like there's kind of a day taught there. And like, you know, like that's got to piss the masters off, right? I imagine something that doesn't list this podcast very often be like, who the fuck are those guys who just mentioned? Come on, man. You don't know like the I should have called him tiny to said instead of Finch, but no, but I mean, like that's got to like that. Nothing grinds the gears of Augusta national more than somebody. they love they love being injected into a conversation that they did not ask to be a part of. That's that's really big.

You know what the really fun conversation is going to be when when Augusta bands these guys. And then you know people like well, you know, ex on mobile is a big sponsor of them. We're not doing that TC. And you know, it's like, oh my God. We're not doing it. I think that's kind of, I think that's all I have for today. I mean, it's a lot. What do you hear about the caddy stuff, Sally? So I haven't confirmed this yet. So I'm hesitant to say something, but heard.

And this may be only the top guys, but we're the guys that have signed on for eight events. I don't know, but apparently the caddies got some kind of bonus, something in the range of $100,000 just for cadding this plus they get 10% of their players earnings paid by live, not 10% of what the player made paid by the player. Like on top of that, they get 10% from live, which would be over $20 million paid out to caddies for an eight event series. I have heard that.

That is not reported as fact. I am sourcing that continually, but someone that has given me a lot of good information in the past had that to say, which is pretty remarkable. That would be, I mean, that would be a pretty heavy play from, from Norman. What if the caddies start leaving the PGA tour players to go caddy over? That's that's interesting. I think it's like an incident. I know they paid the travel for all the like the caddies don't pay for anything, right? It's not like a normal week on the PGA tour. So

I think that's for the whole field. That's not just the big guns. People have said this in the past, but one of the one of the most interesting things about this and and certainly it doesn't seem like it's going to go this way. I'm sure everything will be honky-dory forever. But if they ever pull the plug on this, like what's your recourse against the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia for like clawing back your money that you didn't get? Like where are you going after? So like I hope, I mean, fingers crossed, people get fucked pretty hard. I think that would be pretty great. That's best case scenario on this. Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, I mean, like if you go place you go play six events and like you just don't get the one

day that they don't you are going to get that big and stuff. Well, I mean, early returns, it seems like the the blandly. Yeah, how did the trade work out? Tony Harrah trade. Hey, Tony Harrah finished the day. We're not. Landy was plus this is how he lures you into going down the leaderboard. And we're not doing that here. We're not talking about the golf here. We're not doing it. Can I ask? I think if people don't realize we're talking about the head of a ton of hara, Richard Blan trade, cynically, so it's a classic label. Straight up trade.

That's on them. That's on them. No cash considerations, no draft fix, no nothing. Liv gave everyone $20 million just for the trade, just for being there. I mean, even on the team side of things, wouldn't it have been better to just be like, all right, here's our captains.

Each of these guys gets a bonus if their team wins. And like, I'd be like, all right, here's our captains. Each of these guys gets a bonus if their team wins. And like, I'd be following like, I think team, I think Sergio is the fireballs. I'm not certain. I don't know. I don't know who else which teams or which or whatever, but like inject a little bit of stuff in there. I'm also shocked that they haven't gotten women involved in this yet. bit of stuff in there. I'm also shocked that they haven't gotten women involved in this yet. That seems like something that if they want to shut up, you know, basically just do like the what about it as a thing. Well, yeah, like what about like we have women. We have we have a woman on each team, right? Like we have 12 women involved in this. They play from their own teas, they have their own competition. They basically, you know, bloop the Saudi Aramco series into this.

We're so early. And the woke golf bros that no laying up would love that. Then they couldn't hate it anymore. Because they exactly LPGA. Also, I mean, fat, like kind of a tough setup. We're not doing it. We don't care. We only 10 guys under only 10 guys

under par out of 48. They might stay. They stay. They stay. They're fucking state. Yeah. Plubbers and fire. But my man, Don Kedic, they're all dehydrated from the from the draft party probably. Shout out to our light for, uh, in the in the so of course the one thing they did mess up was all of their pre-production was caught like if you go Backwards on the live stream you can go back and watch them getting set up for everything Our little white was like looking at the schedule of the screen He's a soccer announcer for the those that don't know I think he's the announcer for the fire or something like that or I don't know and he's oh I can't wait to go to Chicago There's a journalist there who wants to have me fired.

That was the hottest thing I heard on the Hot Bikes back there, which was fantastic. So I look forward to that. But we're going to be at our event the next couple of days. I don't foresee watching much more of it. I really don't feel like I need to. I honestly just need a break, a breather from it. We'll be back in the Sunday for a podcast with a special guest.

Hopefully, a couple of special guests, I think, for the Sunday night recap this week. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions.

I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions.

I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don't know if you guys have any questions. I don exhausted. I'm like, I'm so like, it's been a weird couple of days to where I'm very, it's been kind of weirdly rewarding just to, I don't know, cover something so weird and like, it feels like it's going to have an impact on the future of golf, good or bad or both. You know, hopefully, hopefully more good if like the torque can get their shit together.

But I'm both ragged from, it just seemed like it was one thing after another and everything was so, I mean, KVD kept tweeting stuff and it was like, all right, is this real or not? And he's like, he would have to put in parentheses like this is not a joke. And it's like, I feel like it's been that all week.

And like I'm tired of deciphering between that. And I just want to go like tune out for a couple days. I thought it would feel way more rewarding to have, you know, to get to this point after having like scream from the rooftops back in February. Like this isn't over. Like they're taking the victory lap. This is not over. Hey, this is not taking the victory lap. This is not over.

Hey, this is not over. Please listen, this is not over. Thought I would feel more worried. We're talking about it. I thought I would. In November or last, you know, last April or what, like we've done so many different pods about this. Like, I'm saying after the shipnook fill stuff happen,

people were like, it's over. It's done. It's gone. We're like, dude, I don't think it is. Like, these people are insane. And here we are. It, uh, there's so up. We're like, yeah, dude, I don't think it is. Like these people are insane. And here we are. There's so many national guys on this that have like basically said, like, oh, like this is never going to happen. It's just stupid.

And like, I'm just straight up not going to cover it. And like, all right, cool. Like you look like a fucking idiot. All right. Let's shut down before we get ourselves in trouble. Let's just, you see, we get, we got a set sail early six AM. Let's go down under the hotel of our D.G. The steamship leaves at six a.m. Sally will see you guys there at the open

championship. Can't wait to play some golf tomorrow. You guys get here safe, bomb voyage and thanks everyone for tuning in and all the support of the people that actually are not mean to it. So cheers crack on. What about China, Sally?

What about China? Cheers, crack on. What about China, Sally? What about China? Heh heh. Get the right club. Be the right club today. Yes! Beats!

That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most.