No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 584: Shane Bacon

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

Shane Bacon returns to recap the 150th Open Championship as we try to make sense of Sunday's incredible back nine from Cameron Smith, the disappointing finish for Rory, what's up with Jordan Spieth, and more from the week at St. Andrews. We also get into the latest from LIV and what lies ahead in the upcoming months. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying a Podcast. Sully here, have our old friend Shane Bacon on. He was on our live show on Thursday last week. And just never mind to me that we need to have that guy on more frequently.

He used to be a very regular guest on this podcast, but he's gotten very busy with podcasts of his own golf today. All the stuff he's doing with NBC and golf channel. But it was good to just debrief with him on the 150th open at St. Andrews his week there. We talked a lot of Rory. I tried to talk a lot of Camus, but we talked a lot of Rory. Look, I'm just going to be honest. Talk some speed, talk some live stuff, of course, at the end, but great to have a catch up chat with Shane. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Woop, the personalized digital fitness and health coach and official fitness wearable, the PGA and LPGA tours. If you don't know, the all new four. Oh, is smaller, smarter and designed with biometric tracking,

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is Shane Bacon. So my friend, what is it like calling golf at the old course? You know, it's, it's one of the, I mean, every moment is kind of a pinch to be moment when you do these things the first time, I mean, you know, getting an opportunity to kind of be a part of the master's coverage last year, I remember being so surreal that, you know, you're a small part of this kind of mechanism that is the masters and a Gus National and the experience that for years you consumed it away. And then, yeah, there was a moment on life from where, you know, it was like the setting was behind me, right? It was 17. And yeah, it was just wild. You know, I mean, we went over there as is idiot buddies, you know, in 06, me and my buddy will and got these kind of dream jobs. We didn't realize

they were dream jobs at the time, right? We just thought it would be a cool experience. And we knew nothing, you know, that's what part of the experience is like when you're a kid, it's like, your whole Europe experience, right? I'm sure when you took that job, you know, you were thinking this is going to be sweet, but I'm sure you never in a million years thought I traveled to however, I mean, how many countries did you go to in cities and stuff like that? You know the number 43 I think something like that. Yeah, I mean, crazy, right? And again, like at the time you're doing it, you're not kind of thinking this is going

to be a humongous part of my life. And yeah, to kind of be back in that, in that world, you know, broadcast in an open for the first time and being, you know, a small footprint in that whole system was was pretty wild. It was very, very cool to kind of be back in that setting at that place. That was my first open, you know, so to do your first open it at the old course. And again, kind of having that that small connection to it from the caddy and experience was a was a very, very wild, you know, feather in my cap type of work environment that I'll remember for a long time. You know, it kind of hit me maybe later than it should in terms of like, you know, you're talking about

especially as called the masters and listen, I'm sure it is. I'm going to have to take your word for it on that one. But the master's every year and the old course, the open championship to the old course is not every year. And it's usually every five. This one's been seven. Rumors are the next one's eight. not every year and it's usually every five. This one's been seven. Rumors are the next ones eight. And I think it just kind of hit me of like, what Cameron Smith did on that back nine is a true, true once in a lifetime opportunity.

He's gonna have a chance to win the Masters next year. He's gonna have a chance to win the Masters in 2024. He's gonna have a chance in 25 blah, blah, blah. But like who knows where his golf game will be in 2030 and whether or not I'll have a chance at the old course and he should have back 930 to go do it. And I think some of the Rory Grief kind of, I don't know, we gave him his due,

I think all of the sudden it showed, but a little bit of the Rory Grief has stood in the way of being at all of what just happened. Yeah, I mean, it's part of the bummer of someone like, again, and not to take anything away from Cam, I think so much of us in the media and you know people like you and I who are Not too far off similar age to Rory. We've grown up with Rory kind of being our guy I guarantee you that you know, you talked to Jaime and you know the late Dan Jenkins and it felt like you know

Arnie and Jack were their guys, you know because they kind of follow them you know They're follow their path and got to see him grow up and win big tournaments and I've always you know, because they kind of follow them, you know, they're follow their path. They got to see him grow up and win big tournaments. And I've always, you know, there's a joke, you know, like how sad we all get 30 year old men get when Roy doesn't win. But, you know, he's going to be 40 when it returns. I was thinking of this about speed. You know, we were doing the speed feature group on Sunday with speech and speech and Patrick Cantlay.

And I made the point, you know, I mean, he's going to be, he turns 29, I think, in next week, okay? So he's 37. You know, what's Jordan, Speed's golf game going to look like at 37 when all we're seeing is youth dominating this sport right now. So you're so right. I mean, the master's every year, it's so hard to win the master's, especially when you need to win it. You know, when you're Greg Norman or when you're Rory McAurley specifically, I was watching this is an incredibly nerdy thing, but today, which is Monday, my kids were doing... All right, so when you have two kids, Sully, and I know you'll get there one day, but the key to a great two-kid day when you're in a lone parent and my wife left this morning, like, Jettison's out of the house as she should. It's been like nine days with two kids,

but when you have two kids, the dream is the tune app at the same time. And it happens. I mean, it really does happen, but it's a really small window when the baby's down and the three year olds down. So I'll throw, like if I'm listening to a podcast or if I'm just kind of sitting outside doing nothing, just staring in the abyss, I'll throw on old masters because you could put it on mutants. Great.

And I had 99 on today. And I forgot Norman was like in the Hut and I mean like really truly in the Hut in 99 and you think about just Being so cursed in that environment and to this point Rory's been that for us and really those are the two names that I think stand alone at a Guston national but they get every year to do it and Tiger one twice at the old course and Jack won twice at the old course and Jordan had a chance in his prime and he didn't get it done, you know, and that's a bummer because he's most likely not going to win an open at the old course, you know, if you just did numbers, right? And the same can be said about Rory and I think that is probably the enormity of the disappointment for Rory McAroy is the fact that

disappointment for Rory McAroy is the fact that you're going to get another crack at this truly. And where's your golf game going to be then, right? Because he wants it to click one week a year in April. And now if you want to win an open at the old course, it's got to click one week a decade, right? I mean, that's just so hard to have it happen. And I think that's when you get so close to this and you have someone outplay you, when you put yourself in a position where you could go out there and in theory shoot seven to your 69 of when and somebody, you know, I'm sure at night, you're talking to your manager and your agent and your caddy and your wife. And you're like, if I shoot 69, I'm probably going to win this thing unless somebody goes nuts and unfortunately for Rory, somebody but when nuts and every time somebody and I wasn't a collapse, right? But

it wasn't great play. I think you and I are both and I, it wasn't a collapse, right? But it wasn't great play. I think you and I are both in agreement that it wasn't a great round of golf by any stretch of the imagination. And when you add up those half strokes, I listened to you guys on Sunday night. And I thought you guys made a great point about the half strokes, right? The half par holes. When you give three or four of those away, those are bogies, right? I mean, those add up to a couple of bogies.

And so, you know, he, Rory didn't play well. He played very safe all day. And somebody went out there and still had to do it. And when spieth, you know, fell apart late at Augusta, who was there? Bogey free 67, you know, and Norman fell apart in 96. It was a Bogey free 67. Like somebody normally plays great. And you just hope that you're okay or good is good enough and it wasn't good enough. And most likely Rory and Jordan and JT and these guys, they'll get one more crack at the old course. That's so wild to think. And you know, K. M. Smith now is a part of that legacy forever and one of the great rounds in open history, really. You know, it's funny. We were joking. I put the tweet out today is like back when you were our

first ever guests on the podcast back in 2014, I believe the cut. Is that right? By the way, is that I was the first? Yes, you first ever guest. I, I, it's, I mean, that was 20 what 14? That was eight years ago. But the conversation that is so bad. Back then we're like, man, I think Rory's going to get to 10.

Like I really do. And listen, it was a outrageous and, you know, caught up in the moment and no perspective on how the math shakes out on these things. Yes, it was. But at the time, the golf landscape was different. It was not, I would venture to say not as competitive even seven years, eight years later. It's way more competitive now is what I'm saying back then. And it was possible to gobble up a lot of majors in a short period of time. At least it feels more possible than it does now because I look at how the major champions this year, Scotty Shepler, mid 20s, Justin Thomas, late 20s, Matt Fitzpatrick also in his 20s

and now we have Cameron Smith in his mid 20s. Between Rory was runner up and semi runner up this, if you've given the birdie on the last, if he's trying to get that up and down, I'm fine with that. Seminar runner up took dudes that were not a part of the professional golf landscape eight years ago, right? And like, so it is a totally different thing of, you know, it's kind of one in one out. Guys fall off, Jason Day falls off, blah, blah, blah, guys kind of weave their way out,

but he's now getting beat by dudes that he'd never even like was considering six, seven, eight years ago. And it just, I'm wondering if that's gonna end up weighing on him in terms of like, dude, how frickin hard it is to win it. Because we beat by two, two Cameron Young as well as a second guy, the younger the end that is doing it. And did it in that fashion, right?

Shoot 65. You know what I mean, it's going out there and getting it. And you know, Sully, I mean, we struggle so much in this game to really define what greatness is because is it the majors? Is it winning? Is it consistency? And I've kind of landed on greatness as just lasting, you know, I mean, it's, can you have a long career? Because Rory's that guy of this generation. It's kind of Rory and DJ, right? Those are the guys that were around when you started the

podcast that were top 10 players when, you know, we were talking about this in whatever eight years ago, right? And JT wasn't around really then. And, you know, Jordan's beef was like a, but teenager probably went at the John Deere around that time, right? I mean, these, these guys were just coming up and Rory was really good back then and he's had his down years but he's still one and he's won a lot of stuff and it's just, you know, I mean, he's so good at everything and even his bad stuff is still really good that it's just going to make up for a lot of errors and you know what? I don't know about you.

I mean, you play tournament golf a decent amount. I know you probably don't play as much tournament golf as maybe you did, you know, three or four years ago. And I'm obviously the same, you know, I mean, just moving up here and more work, you know, more work. So if I try to play in the summer, I'll try to play in all the kinetic golf stuff, but at least for me, when I play stuff and I'm nervous, I feel like I don't miss short. I always miss wide. So if the pins tucked right, I feel like my nervy shot is the hit at 30 feet left, right? Or if I have a putt and I'm a little nervy on it, I'm going to leave it short. And I felt like that was kind of Rory on Sunday.

It was never to short side yourself. It was almost to follow like, I know, you know, that John Wood Tiger thing went around a lot, but it was almost to follow those guidelines of play smart, play safe, play a solid round of golf, and you'll win. And that's just, dude, Rory wins these majors by a million. You know, like go out there and shoot 65, and win like you did the two you won by eight on. And I get not trying to take too much on,

but I don't know, I mean, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I just feel like it's, it's safe a lot with Rory until he needs to get it. And when he needs to get it, he shoots 64 65 like he did it at the masters. And I almost just we wish like he could change the mentality and go in on Sunday and go, what can I shoot the lowest score today? Like, can I be the best round of golf today? Because he did that on Thursday and Friday and even Saturday, right? It's like, go out there and play a great round of golf and see how low you can go.

And it just felt so safe on Sunday and all of a sudden, like, it felt like fast and the furious when the guys hit the naws, you know, it was like, oh, shit, the guy just, you know, in 15 speed, double eight, I think that's right. He four put it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was kind of it. And I feel like there was that moment where speed clicked, clicked in on the back nine. And I can't remember how many birdies he made or what he birdied obviously outside of 16,

but I don't know. I just felt like when Cam started making the birdies for Rory, it was, let's get back into the mode that we played the first 54 holes in. And, you know, I don't know. It was like he couldn't get back there, you know. And so I don't know if he just, it was so unaggressive early that clicking into that was just too tough or in late. And then you get to the last four holes where really only birdie holes

18, you know. I was trying to pull up in the OWGR site won't let it work in terms of what the world ranking was. All those guys that were up there in 2014. But when it comes to, to Rory, that final round, I don't remember if I said this on the show or not and this is of course Perfect plenty if I didn't it sounds like like a million percent high, you know hindsight I thought 68 was the number I thought if you got to 20 and I tweeted this out during the middle of the day I was like if he takes care of these these are the four holes. He's got to get take care of those There's a hole study should take care of those then someone's got to finish one of the cameras has to shoot seven under in the last 13 to catch him.

And one of the cameras did shoot seven under the other one shot six under in that stretch. So that part happened. Pretty crazy. And he didn't take care of the holes he needed to. He didn't go backwards on any holes, but I just don't I don't think it was too conservative. I don't think you know, he was pounding drivers up there. He was trying to drive nine. He drove 10.

He was, you know, his decision making didn't change. He was trying to drive nine. He drove 10. He was, his decision-making didn't change. He just didn't hit the ball close. Like that, the pitch into nine just had to be a little bit closer. He did hit it pretty close on three and then he missed the putt. Like that was the one missed. You look at and you say, look, that's the one you really should have made. The rest of them were, he had decent runs at it.

17, I kind of need a little better run at it than a ball that just kind of falls off low. It just was like, dude, he didn't hit it close enough and nothing went in. Nothing from long range. And if you give yourself like a bunch of 25% puts throughout the course of a day, like there is a good chance that none of them will fall. Like I know math would say you'll make one out of four or whatnot, but like it's not a guarantee that that'll happen. And the eight footers and 10 footers that he missed were, you know, that's more on him than it is on the math or whatnot.

But I still put more on not positioning himself great in that final round. Did I, it just, man, it felt like when Cam Birdie 13, and it felt like my, my, like, the, Neil and I were upset in the kill house and we're watching with our wives. They're like, it's fine. Like he's tied. Like it's fine.

No, no, Rory's got to hit a big shot now. Now it is all on him. He's got to hit it. And dude, he hit no big shots past the 10th hole, not one. He had, it was no highlight on the day. I mean, that's what's so wild. Do you think about Saturday and like the bunker shot and how enormous of a moment that was in the golf tournament?

And it was just, it was like, it was like you go to like counting crows with your like best buddies and you guys listen to counting crows all through college. You're like, man, just play Mr. Jones. Like just do it. Like I know, like I know you guys play lobby. Can you just hit me on the end with it? And they won't do it. The whole show like there was never a Mr. Jones moment for Rory on Sunday. And like said, dude, same thing. And I said this on our podcast rap show on Sundays.

Like I walked out after speech finished on 15 and I saw Porter and his face was like, it's over. Like he had this look on his face. Like we're kind of done here. And there, and he would, and Rory's team off on 16, you know, and I just, and I kind of felt it too, you know, it just, the, the, the bummer of it was, he just didn't take advantage of, you know, what, four through three through 12. And when you don't take advantage of those holes, you know, it's, you might have to play catch up on the harder holes. And then there's not a whole bunch of really hard holes at Santa Andrews when a dead and blow, but like, you don't want to try to get birdie on 15, 16. And, there's not a whole bunch of really hard holes at Santa Andrews. I went a dead and blow, but like you don't want to try to get birdie on 15 16 set. And so there's two shots that I look back at that.

All right, quick, quick one word answer. Who's a longer driver here? Rory McElroyer, Cam Smith. Think it's Rory. Cam Smith chased one up on the 12th green on the front of the 12th green because he had the right trajectory on that t shot. Rory did not even reach the bunker with driver because he hit the shot with the wrong trajectory. He hit it too high. He did not hit the proper link golf shot. Which now you get to 18, you need to drive it.

You need to make eagle. But even let's say he would have hit the right, you know, made the birdie on 12, then he's one behind going into 18. He still didn't even reach the value of sin because he again hit the wrong trajectory. That ball landed too soft. You know this, like he knows this too. There's a links driver shot that is going to go the

furthest and it is not his stock PGA tour shot. It is a different trajectory. One that Cam Smith was able able to find and Roy wasn't. And look, I know there's funny bounces and you can't control if your ball hits on a downslope and reality and all that stuff. But those balls stopped on a dime on what some of the firmest fairways I've ever seen and cams did not. And it just go that's the part that I'm like, man, the execution from T to green was not there. And I think that's, you know, 18 greens can mean one thing. But at St. Andrews, that number really just doesn't mean a whole lot because if you're hitting it to 35 feet all day, it just doesn't mean that much.

Yeah. Again, I think I think what you set off the top was, you know, making sure that the credit is given to Cam Smith and what he did. And always talk about Rory. Well, I was looking this up like like Cam Smith's one three times this year, his scoring average on the Sundays of his wins is 65. Like this dude has gone out and got it on Sundays at these tournaments. Like, I mean, credit to him. And you guys were joking. And I was I was laughing with you guys on Saturday night about the decision-making from Cam in that round.

And Cam is totally, when it's locked, it's scary as hell. And it can go so low. And he just got locked. And he didn't make that put on nine. And for whatever reason, he got pissed off. And it was game on from there. And you know, you're basically for Rory McRoy, you got to get 18T and picking up one more shot, 10 on down, and he just couldn't do that.

And when you do that and how you all of a sudden you got to make two, you got to drive the green, you got to bird 17 and 18, which is 17 was playing harder than both par five. It's going to be a really tough ask, even as good a shot as he had in there. And so he'll be kicking himself. Was it Saturday that Rory didn't bird 18 when we were joking about kind of that killer It's going to be a really tough ask even as good a shot as he had in there and so he'll be kicking himself

Was it Saturday that Rory didn't birdie 18 when we were joking about kind of that killer birdie was that Friday when he was just short Now I was like man killer Rory would have made birdie here he birdied it, you know Just shortie on Saturday, but did not birdie it on Friday the Friday was a Friday when he was just short of it Because he kind of kind of had it rocking and he was just short. I'm like, you know, killer Rory birdies here and really kinda goes in the weekend. And he gassed it by 10 feet, didn't make the putt. And you know, there's these little things here and there, right, throughout the week, where there are certain holes

where you have to make three, you know. And 18, if you're Rory McAroy, you basically, you've got to feel like you got to make three and maybe a two one day. And you, I mean, you're right. You come up short there a couple times. Like, he gets in anything if you're Rory McAroy, and I'm assuming feel like you got to make three and maybe a two one day. And you, I mean, you're right. You come up short there a couple of times. Like, he gets in anything if you're Rory McAurie. And I'm assuming it's going to get to the green even into the way.

There are a lot of dudes getting there plenty easily. And he more than has enough speed. And that, that, those balls just have to get there. And like, I know wins can shift a lot between, I mean, it's like, we're talking about back-to-back groups here where Cam Young is driving it pin high. And I know he's a bomber, but literally, Cam Smith made it up to the front of that green and Rory couldn't get it there. And that just was a little bit bizarre.

But there's a little, you know, some discussion on our message board, you know, Randy's been beating this drum a little bit. And I'm curious and you're take overall, you can either say it could be the two of us, it can be the, you know, all of us here didn't know you, it could be all of our torso, our chat, whatever it is, or or could be golf media as a whole.

Do we give Rory a pass? Like do you feel like people give Rory a pass in general for for anything because we like him? I don't think so. I think we're pretty hard on Rory. I think you guys are hard on Rory and you like him. I think I'm hard on Rory and I really like the guy a lot. I mean, I think, you know, you read through what was written, you know, I mean, Joel Beale's

piece was lovely if you hadn't read that. And you know, it kind of dove into coming up short and the miserable parts of it. What's so weird is, Sully, is it feels in a weird way with Rory and the majors now what it used to kind of feel like for me and Phil, you know, and Phil hadn't won one yet. And I was a lefty growing up. I was obsessed with Phil Mickles and obviously I was a Phil guy over Tiger guy. I mean, how are you not? If you're a left handed golfer and, you know, potentially pursuing colleges in Arizona. So I was always a Phil guy. And, you know, every major was it was so stressful. You were more stressed watching Phil than

you were playing in junior tournament yourself. And it feels almost like this is Rory's first again, right? Because it's been so long. It's another it's another golfing lifetime ago. The last time I remember Mac or we won a major, you said it. I mean, it's it's different. It's a completely different world outside of about two names. And one of those names that didn't really play on the PJ tour anymore. So, you know, it's it's kind of our guy.

And I think you're you're rooting for the legend that can't get it done. You're rooting for this other worldly guy that makes it look so beautiful and effortless and he's such a stand up guy and he's smart and he's honest and he puts it out there and he cries next to greens and he's close with his parents

and he's got a great family and he and he's and he understands like I fly private planes And I need to do something about that like who the hell thinks like that what rich persons ever said something like this and Rory makes it a point to donate whatever he was doing in terms of of helping the world out because he knows that a part of his life Is burning more fuel than other people do right right? I mean, this is nobody in his position thinks the way Rory thinks. And so I think there's a way, it's a little bit like Max in a way where you, you feel like you know the guy, even if you don't, you feel like if, if you in a, in a, in a world where if you walked into a bar and you sat next to the person, you'd probably be pals.

Like, I think collectively a lot of us feel like that with Rory. And we're not, I mean, we're not, we're not friends with Rory McAroy, you know, like, like people think like Rory is like, Rory's in his world. And Rory is an incredibly famous and high-accomplish human being. But in a way, I think we all relate to him in a way, and sometimes because he goes to discipline. He's the realist. That's what I fall back on. He's real all the time. And when it sucks, he's real. And when he gets pissed off, he's real.

You know, like, he doesn't shy away from it. He doesn't, he's always answered the questions, at least honestly about the good and the bad. And that is hard as hell to do. It's hard to do in any walk of life and he does it. It's some of the highest walks of life in the world. So it's so easy to root for them that I think it's really easy to have your heart broken alongside with. And that's where I would very much tend to agree that I don't think he gets a pass at

all. If anything, he gets so much more attention on every major that he has a failure. Whereas, can't believe Cam Smith would have finished T24 this week, we would not have mentioned his name. Like, we would just been like, yeah, okay, whatever week. And if we were to finish T24, we would have been slamming him. I mean, we would have been what's going on with Roy at the majors. It's been eight years now, blah, blah, blah. And look, the point I've just been trying to make

and apologies if I'm repeating this or if you've listened to all of our stuff this weekend is like, this was a different season. This was a different performance. This was different level of competing in majors. And that's, look, is that a little bit of congrats you peed in the potty a little bit like you're supposed to be doing that 100%. But we have lambasted this guy for no showing at majors in, you know, either not getting off the bus or as soon as he's in position, he just goes backwards and plays himself out of it before Sunday even comes. Like, we had a little run last year at the, you know, at the US Open, where we believe

for a little bit on that back nine on Sunday, but other than that, man, he had, you know, and immediately three puts in double tax toll. Like instantaneously, the moment he was, I think he was within one of the lead he three puts 11 and double 12 and you're like Poof your guy and it takes a different and I really do think this is Some serious rotella stuff going on to stand up in that interview afterwards and just like site like here's the great things that happened to me in majors this year like obviously incredibly disappointed obviously third place means nothing to him But I he knows like I played really great golf and I pulled this up on data golf today. The best player in the world and I'm using strictly off strokes gained your ability to get

the golf ball in the hole compared to everyone else in the world, which is literally means you're the best player in the world. And I know it's very black and white and wins and losses for a lot of people. He's also one three times less 15 months. That's not good enough for a lot of people. But best player in the world will ask one month, Roy McAroy, two months, Roy McAroy, three months, Roy McAroy, six months, Roy McAroy, nine months, Roy McAroy, 18 months, I think that one was wrong and then two years is wrong.

Like over the last two years, Ram's tagly been better. But like the dude has just played great golf and I just don't think everything is all wins and losses. Now to him it probably is, but at the same time I think he's like, he really, he, his immediate reaction was that he thinks this means good things to come for him into the future, which I don't think that's nothing, which I could just, that could be total hopeful and you can tread me all you want for that. But that, just I, you know, for somebody who's like been beaten and battered over eight

years of trying to win these things and dealing with the pressure that he puts on himself and that we put on him, I think that was not nothing. And again, we've said this a lot as well. Rory hasn't been in a lot of majors. That's like one of the key parts of what, the last seven years of major championship golf is you had 18. I mean, it was 15 when he was paired with or 16 when he was paired with Jordan on Saturday in the final pairing and he shot 77 and then make a birdie. Yep. Didn't make a birdie. I mean,

like a taste of it, right? Final pairing, Augustine National Saturday doesn't make a birdie shoot 77. And then 18, you know, he missed the bunny with Reed and it was like no show the rest of the day. And that's kind of it. I mean, Karnusti, he sniffed late because he made an eagle, but he wasn't in that. I mean, it's, I think your point is extremely valid is it's felt like this year on Sunday, he's had chances to win almost all the majors. And that is a very different thing than what we've seen from Rory

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Cause if anything, man, well, I mean, we love him. We love him. We love Rory. But if anything, he is super accepting of criticism. Like, for sure, that's why he listens to a lot of this stuff. And like, we have said things about him. And I've like, you know, had drinks with him and asked like, so what's it, you know, like we say blah, blah, blah, I know you hear some things like, what's

that? What do you think when you say this? He's like, yeah, look, I don't always agree with what you say, but like, you know, you guys do your best to, to be fair. And you have, you know, you have to be true to your, what, I don't know, exact words, but it just like, like not, and you could have tested this, not everyone on the PJ tour or in broke off is like that. I could promise you that is not the case. I have people coming up to me on the range, be like, aren't you said this about me below the podcast, but I was like,

it's just, it's, I don't know, there's something, some appreciation I have for an athlete that makes me feel something when watching. I said it's on the preview, it was like, Tiger Roy Speed, or the three, like fairy tale storylines that we can have this week. Like, Ram Winning would not be a story book. Like, it's not like,

obviously a huge appreciation for his talent and all that, you know, JT winning would not be storybook. It would not be storybook to have Matt Fitzpatrick win another one. It just like those, those are the three in my mind. That's not the same for everyone, but it's definitely the same for me. Well, I mean, and Rory is, and I know you have this maybe a little bit more speed. I don't want to say I don't have it with Jordan. I do because I mean, it's very, very exciting

when Jordan's in the hunt. But, you know, Rory's the guy that gets me up in the morning to watch the Irish Open on Thursday, you know. And I mean, there haven't been a lot of guys like that. I mean, I'm sure you're very similar where, when Rory McAroy is in a tournament that's in a weird time zone that's not a major You're at least going to be refreshing your app to check and see what he did because you're interested in his day to day and you know It's compelling because we understand that in this in the era that we're going to be involved in covering the game

You know, this will be Rory's speed capca DJ to certain extent. And that's kind of the group, you know. And I mean, until I guess JT now with two. And they're like outside of that, it's like, join the party, you know. And like, we'll see what Colin does. We'll see what Shetler does. We'll see what Zalatorist does. We'll see what these guys do next, right? Because they're kind of the next group.

But for now, that's kind of this era's rock stars. And Rory is the, in my opinion, at the head of the, he's the head of the pack. You know, so he's going to be the face of this era. Do you, I know you were going to mention all the majors this year. And if you don't want to, I mean, I don't want to move you away from now, but was, I was just wondering that that was your favorite major. Was the open your favorite major? Did you, is there another one that you liked more?

Maybe in the recent C, but I just gobbled up everything I possibly could. The old course is just, you know, it's incredibly special. And I struggled to, I still struggle to come up the words to describe it and watching the pros compete. I honestly think it goes back to like playing in video games as a kid. And just like trying to drive the ninth and 10th Greens and lag put my way around it. And avoid like I really do think it's just like you can't, I don't know, you can't replace that. And there's something really special about watching, you know,

all the best golfers in the world compete on it for something that means so much. I tried to like come up with this in the preview pod too, is saying like, look, there's golf tournaments, pro golf tournaments at the old course every year. The dog hills there every year. I mean, you can watch golf for your course every year. And I couldn't tell you who won, I know, Tear All Hatons won a bunch of them,

but like, it just doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean the same. And we'll get to some live stuff probably, but like that's where I'm at with, like the live stuff is, you can get all the best golfers in the world together for the Portland Invitational. That doesn't mean it means anything, right? But 150 years of history just adds a whole another layer

onto a tournament mattering for my fanhood, at least. And I don't speak for everyone with that, but that was, I mean, that was great. It was such a great venue year. I mean, last couple of years of venues have been, wow, great, and it is. A little struggle, you know,

compared to what the best years are. And this is, this one's way up there, man. I mean, Brookline and Southern Hills end up being awesome. And this is this one's way up there, man. I mean, Brookline and Southern Hills end up being awesome. And this is just, yeah, it's very special. What was your favorite? Country Club is a big winner this year. I'd say when we kind of look back on 22,

you know, Southern Hills is great. And I think every time we go to a major, they'll be reminded it's a really good major venue. And the Masters was great for kind of the Sunday charge, right? But I mean, you're not gonna, it's actually in a weird way kind of beautiful that Rory didn't win, because it's just a reminder that again, like you've gotta go do it.

Like that's not, like if you don't do it, you know, but it cares. And I was thinking about how weird of a week it was for the golf gods. I mean, you get the dividend one, right? Where they're like, hey, F you, I don't care. I don't care who's playing. Well, go and dividend if it's, you know, the, I don't care. I don't care who's playing.

Well, go and dividend if it's, you know, the most, there you go. I don't do not care about that. So you get like the home of golf where like all of this originated from and this dude's storybook starts with a divot and he makes double. You get the 18th green on Friday

where that putts supposed to go in for birdie because if nothing else, that's on all the packages about Tiger at the old course for the rest of existence. You know, he knocks go in for birdie because if nothing else, that's on all the packages about Tiger at the old course for the rest of existence. You know, he knocks it in for birdie and when he made this return in 22, he birdie the last, and it's in the cut. He doesn't make that.

That's a golf gods thing. Let the ball go in the hole, even though he had a horrendous putt. And then Rory, it's like, the golf gods were like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You can, you can be up three one. We do not care if you don't win the fourth game and you give up the three one lead.

You are getting bounced. And uh, yeah, it was, it was, again, hey, listen, that's, that's a beauty of golf, right? The, the, the home of golf or mind theness that golf is under there. Well, that's, yeah, that's just not how golf works. It is, it is more often than not a stomach punch and leaves you come back for more.

And it's, um, I don't know. I guess on the whole backdrop of everything else going on, I think it just, it all felt a little had an extra layer to it this year in terms of just like watching dudes compete for shit that matters. And so it was a weird way to, you know, book in the year and whatnot. But I'll just will say kind of if I can, you know, emulate TC and his came Smith call here is like, if I can't say I have a good feel about this, I just want to make a comp here.

To this point in his career, Phil Mickelson had one zero majors and he won six after this. And like if you just go and straight look at like how off like Phil's strokes gained from 0 4 to 2013 on the mobile throwout 21 that he won a major while he was a blow average tour player, which that deserves 85 of its own podcasts. Like Rory just blows him away, like blows the talent away. He really does. And like, yeah, like maybe it won't work out for him and maybe, you know, I guess I would like to see some data on like Rory's stroke gained and his performance in majors first

regular tour events. Because I think people are going to be a little surprised that it nets out that he plays better than average golf compared to his own baseline in majors. And especially this past year is just off the charts good. So you know, you think about positive vibes. And you know, next year Rory is going to in theory, go into a gut snatch with positive vibes. And we talked about that after the final round, right? I finally have a moment that I can go back to and it be positive. And if all of it is kind of spun the right way internally, not just in Rory's head, but in his camp, in his team,

and all that, that you had your best major season ever. I mean, even better than when you won the two majors because you were really in all four of them. Then the hope is that, like you said, this is all turned into a positive for 2023, 2023, kind of, it's so weird to say. And it's all spun into that, and then you go into it because I think you're right.

You know, when one, when one, and it might be four, you know, when one, and it might be three more, it's just the longer it goes to win the next one, it only makes it harder, and we see it every single time when he gets close to it, is like, either he doesn't make the late birdie or something. And I want to make it incredibly clear like you would definitely trade 2022 for 2011, which was a win and no other top 10s. You would trade that. I would trade that. He would trade in a heartbeat. We're not saying that replaces it. It just 16 good rounds in majors versus it just means more than, you know,

then, then, uh, you know, not all non-winning finishes are equal is what I always love to say. But, but we, but we have such a hard time with this though. I, and I find it so silly. And I remember I brought this up. Uh, I feel like I brought this up either earlier this year or late last year about the, like the podium position thing at these golf tournaments, especially majors is, we don't respect second and third that much.

You know, we, we only do it at the Olympics. That's it. And it golfs new to the Olympics. But, you know, we'd watch you watch Tokyo. I mean, you looked how big it was in that playoff to win the bronze medal. And I'm not saying we got to go play off for third. I mean, I think you obviously would be giving out, you know, multiple prizes, if you will for that. But I just wish that there was some respect or at least kind of a hat nod at these majors for finishing second and third because every time somebody finishes third It's like wow man like I got felt that about the Celtics this year, you know like the Celtics pushed one of the great Like I mean the fourth best dynasty third best dynasty ever in the basketball history like pushed him in the playoffs

And like every NBA playoff podcast you listen to after is like well one of the Celtics have to do in the basketball history, like pushed him in the playoffs. And like every NBA playoff podcast you listen to after is like, well, what are the Celtics have to do in the off season? Like, they were the second best team. Like, they had a really successful year. They just didn't win at all. And, you know, Rory's year in majors, if again, you look at it the right way was a very successful year. It just, unfortunately, none of them were trophies.

And it just kind of blew my mind too, looking at Cam Smith and his progression. I was like, man, I've seen this coming a little bit more. And listen, we've been on it, you know, since the beginning of this year at least, but like he was like average PGA tour player as of 2020, like average. And he has worked his ass off to become one of the, like this literally the second best player in the world, the World Golf Rankings at this point, Major Champion now. And he's done it all by like not being like dominant at all off the tee. Like it's all approach play and incredible putting.

And we've talked a lot about sustainability in recent weeks and months of like, it just feels like the era of Sheffler, Cam, maybe still Rom, I don't know, but it feels like there's a group of dudes that like competed in majors this year. He's definitely one of them and it done last forever. And it's like, get it while you can and he got it. I mean, look at Mora Kawa, like look at Mora Kawa, look at Mora Kawa this year.

It's like the game just wasn't there and I'm sure he'll find it again, but these windows are so small and golf. They are crazy small and golf, and look, I mean, Capca is the best example of this yet, right? He was unbeatable in majors, unbeatable. He was incredible. He was winning multiple majors in a row.

And then I know he's battled injury, but all of a sudden you don't play great on a Sunday, and you know, it's not as easy on Sunday, then you hit a couple squirrely wins late in the round. You missed the put that you used to make. And you know, I mean, I just, I think it's important to keep an eye on this because you're so right. These windows for, I mean, wrong.

He's got to find the window again now, right? Like he's got to find that major window again because obviously the recipe wasn't great this season. Like it was last season. Yeah, and Brooks, I mean, Brooks did, if I ever runner up in the PGA last year, but he got beat by 50 year old Phil Beckles. And also like, that's like, you know, the prior version of Brooks would not have let that happen.

And now there's a little scar tissue there. He's had struggles and majors. Now the question is, how do you find it again in major championships? And now you're on the row. He's like, cool. That could last eight years. But you know, who's in that cycle right now? Jordan's beef. It is not good. It has been, oh, it's solid. The putting dude, I did his group on Sunday. Like the putt on nine was was one of the worst putts I've ever seen a pro hit. Really? What happened? If you like five feet straight at it, really simple. He kind of like

limp did up short left. It was it didn't have enough. It's a put that pros hit was so much speed and noise. You know, the ones that they go in and you're like You know if you miss that how far back because they did they don't miss them You know you're always like is it eight feet back you have is that the put back because it looks like you were just jamming He's in the hole and he he hit it like I play with guys that do what he did like I've been there before in my golf game Where you're so scared of the comebacker that the putt never had a chance in your mind even before you put the ball down and move your mark. And you know, he he three putt at eight. He misses this and he was rocking. Like he

he didn't birdie. He had a short birdie. I think on one he had a good chance that he birdied two and three and then he birdies a par five and you're kind of like all right Man, the guy's rocking and then he hits it in there close on seven and when he hit it in close on seven and he made it You know we're sitting there. I mean I'm doing his group. You know, you're like maybe goes out there and does like shoot 63 or something fun And then he three puts eight misses a short one on nine and then it was kind of that back and forth round Then it's a good finish from Jordan But again like you don't make five footers. I mean, if you're not confident over five footers,

it's going to be eventually going to catch up with you, no matter if you're the best ball striker in the world. And obviously Jordan did in the best ball striker in the world. I got bad news for you. This was his best putting performance in a major this year. He was negative. This open was plus 0.28 this year at the open.

And he was the putting sense of why I don't know how much I trust the all the stats have come out of the entity. Yeah, the open. The entity data was having a tough time on the old course. I think but yes, US open he was negative point one to PGA negative point seven two and the master's negative point six and it's all via data golf. Unreal. And that's all via data golf. Fun real. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and puts, you know, from 10 feet in. It's, it's not good.

It's not good when the kid that virtually never missed anything outside of three feet doesn't feel very comfortable from five to eight feet and they don't seem to go in anymore. And he's had flashes. His game is not as bad as it was sometime in those stretches from 2018 to, you know, whatever 2020 that was really not good. And he had some freak major finishes in there, but He's been better, but you know at least you know not to bring everything back to Rory from During this major drought Rory still played really really really good golf over extended period of time had some bad dips in there

But he hasn't fallen off the way speed had fallen off and just speed is just not not gotten all the way back He has truly not gotten all the way back. He has truly not gotten all the way back. I didn't really even trick myself into it happening this past week, which that says a lot. I think I am willing to be tricked and convinced that I don't know. There was you tweeted that he was T4, I think on Sunday. I think when he birdied seven, you're like, just to let everyone know. I didn't want to learn anybody. Jordan's feed this T4. I saw you have a prediction for you. I have a Jordan's speed prediction. I think by the masters next year, we could see Jordan's speed with a mallet.

I think this will be a little bit like, remember when we had, when Tiger had the mallet at Bel-Rea, was it Bel-Rea when he was kind of put with that weird, that mallet putter? Well, he did it, yeah, but back, even back in like 2011, he had that weird Nike putter. Yes, yes, yes.

Yes. It was like a method. I, I think we could see maybe a switch because, you know, like those are, that's where it helps. I mean, the mallet tends to help you in that kind of range. And it is not confident right now. So I mean, I'd at least like to see him throw something in there for a couple of weeks and take the game around and just feel like see if anything feels different.

Don't go full dust in, but maybe throw something in there and just see if it feels a little bit different in tournament conditions. Throw something in there, trick yourself into thinking that that's your new putter. And then when you go back to the old one, your instincts will be so much better. Like he needs.

I don't love and immediately fall back to him. He needs a different look to it. Or it just looks like, and this is total complete. I'm not a technical expert at all. It looks like he is really uncomfortable with his eye level. Like he looks like he is struggling to figure out like where his eyes should be when he lines up puts and it just, he knows so quickly when it comes off his face that it's not going in.

And I'm like, dude, how is that not concerning, man? Like how, you know, figure that out, right? There's got to be some kind of, you know, I don't, I, that's where, again, I don't know the technical aspect of it, but, uh, it's like right on contact, you're like, nope, nope, that was not it. That was not the right one. That was not the right one for them. And so that means he's standing over it with a, with not very much confidence.

And yeah, you're just not gonna, you're not going to win majors that way, that way, we know for sure. But so what did you, what so what did you make of one, the question being asked to Kim Smith about live in the press conference afterward, to his answer three, what does this all mean if it looks like it does look like? Yeah, I mean, I think the question is completely respectful.

I mean, I think you can ask those questions at any of these places at this point, because that's very newsworthy, right? I mean, you win the open, people want to know, you lose the open, people want to know. It sure seemed like he was ducking behind the question as quick as he could. And yeah, I mean, it's just all this stuff is a bummer. You know, I posted that thing on Twitter with the Henry Extensen news and the quote he had about, you know, how much of an honor it was to be named Ryder Cup Captain. And you, I mean, you said it a few minutes ago about the whole live, you know, Portland

thing is you, you think of like the real great moments in golf. And it was, you know, the Ryder Cup last year, you know, the Americans finally play the way they know they can play the emotion on Sunday from Rory, right? One of the great moments of the year, this guy getting emotional in a loss and taking the blame personally and feeling terrible for letting his team down and mentioning, you know, I'd never been sat before in a ride or cup playing for $0. No, no money at all, right?

You think about, I think back to the Masters when Tiger won and how coming up that short, basically ruined the next two years of Mullen Ari's career, right? Coming that close to winning a green jacket, he was that close to joining a company that simply asks, do you have the game for 72 holes in this golf course to win? That's the, oh, that's all you got to do. There's no, you don't have to be the richest person in the world. You don't have to be the smartest person in the world.

Like, you got to play F in Good Golf for four days at Augusta National in April. And if you don't, you're not in that crew. And Mullen Ari couldn't handle it for two years after because it came so close. And he was like tasting it, right? He could taste it on 12T. And it's just that that's why it matters to us because we can see that it matters to them. And it mattered to Rory, you know, like the whole Kyle Porter story that he wrote at the end where it's, Rory's put

his head on his wife's shoulders driving off in a golf cart. Like that moment of just shit, man, I didn't get it done, you know, like I, I, I, I'm going to have to think about this for a long time. And it's, it's so important in sport right now because these athletes make so much money that all of that's gone away. You know, used to read the gamers on the PGA tour, you know, old newspaper stories and it was about how much money they won. And that's kind of gone away because the money doesn't matter. What is 5 million or 3 million or 8 million or 12 million mean to you and I? Like it doesn't mean anything because it all just seems like a whole bunch of money.

And so the only thing that we can, the only time we can feel it, mattering is when it matters for more than the money and all that stuff. And like this year's been perfect example of that, is some of the heartbreaking defeats at these majors. And, you know, the moments these people step up, like Zalator is making that putt for par on the 72nd hole and just his reaction and how genuine and honest it was.

Dude, like this was why I loved covering the USGA stuff. You know, when I used to do, and I'm doing some of it this year, which I'm so pumped about, I'm getting a chance to do like a couple of the USGA stuff. Later is, it was just passion, man. You and I do it, like you and I play for it. My wife asked me all the time,

what do you get if you win? Nothing. Nothing. You get nothing. She doesn't quite understand it. What do you mean you get nothing? I'm like, I'm playing because I want to be competitive. And I think about, I brought this up before, but there was like this story about when they

filmed eight mile where Eminem had lost his voice and they were rehearsing rappers for the battles. And so he had to just stand up through with the mic and they wouldn't allow him to rap because they didn't want his voice to get worse And I guess there was like a mom or M&M was like, yo, you got to turn the mic on like I'm I can't let these people come at me It is in my blood to come back at them because I can't just sit here and have him rag on me and It's you know again, it's like you could be a billionaire and deep down if you're a competitor You want to be competitive and that's the thing that this will never at least for the foreseeable future until it's if it stays

around for 20 years or whatever like that's not going to be there. And I care about that because I know it matters to them and I think you're very much the same way. And if it doesn't really matter to somebody that much it's really hard to write something or talk about something passionately, you know. Yeah. And I guess I really don't think I haven't gotten any of my takes out, but it's a constant fight on Twitter to kind of try to like, well, what's, I don't understand, what's

the big deal about somebody making a great career move for them? Like, on an individual basis, I just want to emphasize, like, does a lot of this stuff make sense, like for Hendrick Stenson and for blah, blah blah blah to like do this to make a lot more money Like let's just I have no idea how much stenson's getting paid. Let's just call it $50 million like hey Henrik is the writer cup cap and see worth $50 million to you. No, it's not. I'm gonna take the money like okay Like I I totally get why he makes that decision. I do I also understand why that bums me the fuck out. Like that sucks. Exactly. I care the most about watching like dudes compete in the, like it comes back to, yeah, it

really just comes back to my favorite event, the Ryder Cup. If I got it, I agreed to like lead, like a bunch of his old, you know, current and, you know, old, you know, I guess new colleagues or whatnot, countrymen and country, continent and then whatever you want to call it, I agreed to do that. And then it's like, ah, you know what, I kind of changed my mind three months later. Like I kind of want the Saudi money now and said, like, that bumps me the fuck out. Like, I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. I'm not sorry. Like, that's just, that's just where it comes down to for me. And

so much of like, you know, uh, can, uh, keep rooting for the monopoly and all this shit that I'm just like, no, dude, like, I like I just like why do I watch the NBA when I do? It's because I like watching people compete at the highest level and I'm not mad at these dudes for taking getting a lot of money to do that job Like I wouldn't be super weird if Steph Curry left and took 800 million dollars from the Saudis to go play in their basketball league Yeah, they'd be really weird. How are people like the people that are not seeing it at this point? I don't know why. Yeah, they're not listening this far into the episode anyways, but it might not, they might have got it out right when you started the, the live stuff. But yeah, I mean, you can't tell it. You're, you're, you're so right about the, the bummer part of this because again, like the writer cut might not look the same and the

presence cut might not look the same. And these events where if nothing else, you know it matters to the player. You know, like you know it matters to them. I that that's one of the things I've actually turned a bit on the president's cup. You know, I used to rag a bit. But then you you just see how much like it matters to home of this year to make the president's cup team. And how much of an honor it'll be if he gets to play for the team. And just how much it means that you're one of the best in the world to do this, right? At least one of the best in the country, that's cool.

And like getting to see him play for country and all that stuff, like sure it gets played up a bit, but you can see it really matters to people. And that you can watch that in the entertainment can be there without being tied to the final result, which the final result has not been in question for 20 years, but like, right, it can be fun. Yeah, it can be fun and entertain. There's team aspects to it. And there's interesting stuff going on with it. And I, and totally with you, I have shot on it for years. And I declared after the rider cup last year. It's like, I'm not going to do it anymore. I love the team golf. I love all the dynamics of it. And we're in. Yeah, you and I are you and I are you and I are part. We Davis love shoot us a note. We'll be there. We'll be there in red white and blue all day.

Yeah, we'll see how we feel after the first round of Quill Hollow. But what we haven't talked about this yet anywhere is ROM kind of put out a call. It came out Sunday morning and I was like, not not now, John. The hair Bob Harris article is saying like, you want Sergio to be able to be available for the rider cup team or some basically along the lines of something

He's a deal needs to be reached with these guys. Where do you stand on that? Is it is it time for the tours to come to the negotiating table with Greg Greg Norman and live. I can't believe that's a real question, but I Mean this this kind of goes back to what you said off the top about like 2015 pods versus now. Is it, I have no idea what the end solution of this is. I think I sent a message out to our group the other day and said, you know, what's best case scenario for all this? Because I don't know what the answer is. Like I don't know who needs to come together.

I don't know who needs to play where. I mean, obviously, if, if 20 more guys that matter, go to live, then golf's probably gonna have to figure some sort of thing out. I just don't know what that is. You know, that's kind of one of those like, it's such a cop out, but it seems like it's above my pay grade. I'm trying to figure out, in my mind, what I think is the best solution for everybody involved

because my fear is golf, you know, and I mean, no knock to tennis, but I mean, and I know all of people said this, but if golf becomes tennis, then the sport loses a big part of what it is. And I don't want it to be that sport. You know, I want Riviera matter. I want Bayhilda matter. I want the Memorial to matter. I want the match play to be fun I want the waste manage with beat bedanas like There is a lot of golf on TV and I think you and I stand in in a similar shadow here about a little less golf would make the sport more compelling

But there are weeks that aren't majors that are awesome and I think we in the golf world sometimes forget to say that Because we roll our eyes at stuff so often that there are awesome golf events. There are Sundays when the event even one of our favorites and we're going to turn it on because the leaderboard's great. And I don't want to lose that, you know, and so that's my fear is as a consumer and as a golf fan, first and foremost, which you and I are business to side, fan, fandom aside, we like to watch golf. I want to still be able to watch golf and be entertained.

And that's the biggest fear for me right now is if it becomes less entertained, if the entertainment gets less than on both ends. And it is also, you would probably agree with me as well. There are some stinker weeks on the PGA tour. It is not a 10 out of 10. There's stinker NBA games, there's stinker, it's money and I football games. Like, there are stinker weeks on the PGA tour. It is not, of course. It is not a 10 out of 10. There's stinker NBA games. There's stinker, it's Monday night football games.

Like, there are stinker sporting events all the time, like every sport deals with it, right? And it's on us at times to find the storylines, right? Why do you, why should you matter about this week when Rory's not there and Spice not there and Ram's not there and DJ's not there, right? Why do you care about this? And that's it times on us to find the story.

And if you don't find the story, you might not be there. Maybe you're not doing your job. It might not be there. And it might, it also might not be there. It also might literally be journey people playing to make 650K and move on to the next week. But that is a thing in all a sport.

And I think again, I think we lean on it a little too much is that we focus a little too much on the events that aren't that much fun. And that takes away at times from the events that either are fun or are really fun. And listen, the majors of the majors and they're always going to be 57 times more important and impactful than anything else. But like I have fun on Sundays watching golf if it's compelling, you know, and I don't want to lose, I don't want to lose that because all of a sudden it's gonna be a lot harder for us to do our jobs, you know?

I find my current stance on it being very similar to how I feel about the current political environment in terms of like, like I just spent this much time ripping on this guy and then a worse option came about, like, oh, well shit, now this guy that I've been ripping on, I'm like, that's the best option right now. I got this thing that I think is like a three out of 10 of, you know, in terms of in alignment

on how you're entertaining me and all these things. Like, that's kind of who I would rather hitch my wagon to and it has turned it, you know, for some people, I sent a thinking that we're being brought by the PGA tour to, you know, for some people, I sent a thinking that we're being brought by the PGA tour to, you know, is it serious? Have you watched the lifts? Like, have you watched any of the lift stuff?

Like, have you tuned in? Have you consumed it? Like, I tried to watch a little bit of Portland, fine, Portland was the second one, right? Portland was the second one. Portland final round, you know, like, I wanna, I wanna at least see what they're doing. You know, like, I to see what it looks like.

I want to see, I want to go into it as honest as I can as a person that is in and around this sport. Like is it entertaining? Is it not? Is it fair? Is it not? Is it fun? Is it not? Are the teams fun? Are they not? Does that have potential? Does this have potential? Because there's a lot of it that is different. Right? I mean, it's a lot of it that looks a lot different. And different can be very scary to a lot of it that is different, right? I mean, it's a lot of it that looks a lot different

and different can be very scary to a lot of the time. But is any of it positive? Is any of it good? And, you know, I mean, like outside of the political spectrum of it and everything like that, I've tried to consume it from that end. And to this point, I have been underwhelmed on the entertainment side. It's what I'll say.

I've been all of the other stuff aside, just simply, am I watching a golf tournament? Am I entertained? And to this point, it hasn't hit me in that regard. There's a lot of good happening. They have done way better through two events than I would have ever thought. I mean, we were kind of laughing at the rollout

of this thing as of the draft party. I thought it would be honestly thinking back to your friends at Fox running their first US Open. I thought that's like what it would be like. I thought it'd be like, dude, run, you know this, like running golf tournaments is an, and telecasting them is a so hard, so hard and candidly they made it look pretty easy in their first go. That was a stunner to me. Now, when I watch it, every time I've tried it, it's in 20 minutes and I'm like, I'm good. Like I see what it's about.

Like I'm curious, I really want to see like what's going on here, but like I don't even find myself looking at the leaderboard. I don't find myself caring about any of the shots hit. There's no consequence to it. There's no rooting element to it. And maybe we'll get there.

Maybe we will, maybe in five years, when the crushers have traded for Brooks, and now it's Brooks and Bryce on the same team. And every time you say the team name, I try to do it. I know, it's just like, it doesn't matter which team name it is. It's hilarious every single time.

I crack up every time. I mean, that like, you know, I mean, you're spot on. It's just, it's, yeah, it's, you, you, it feels a little bit like the latest about five Star Wars movies to me where, like I was a big Star Wars. It's like, I'm gonna be on my phone 20 minutes and do it. You know, I'm just, I'm not gonna be able to, I've kind of given my commitment elsewhere. And I think I'm pretty invested in that world. And that's where yeah, it may be it, you know, maybe OWGR points, changes that a little bit.

Maybe it's, you know, there is a little bit of, I don't know, I still come back to it. It's like, well, there's two different simultaneous like leagues going on here. And like candidly, like, I don't even pay that much attention to the DP World Tour these days, right? I mean, it's just hard to keep track of everything going on and adding another league to this.

It's gonna further divest or distract or divide whatever the word is. The best golfers and the interesting stuff going on. Like, I just, I can't see see where it ends up being a great thing. I don't know. Where do you stand on the OWGR front? What the tours should do, what the major should do, what are your opinions on that? Well, I think that the invitational side of this stuff, where you basically are getting to pick who gets to play your tournaments. This is a big question mark in terms of getting approved for OWGR. I mean, the fact that it's limited, it's shortened, there's no cut.

You know, all of kind of the rules to a no WGR tournament are a bit thrown out the window. You know, there is competition there somewhere. I mean, you've got big names, you've got major winners, you've got people that are in right now ranked high. And I think if you and I were going to do a draft of the top 100 best players in the world, a lot of those guys would go in our draft and they'd go some of them probably go higher than most people might even think. So it is competitive. I just, I don't know how you give out world ranking points at golf tournaments that look like they look right now. And I do think that before they're going to get close to that process, it's going to be two or three more iterations of this. If not 10 more iterations of it to get to that level and they're going

to have to get to that level or as DJ Pioskey laid out perfectly online. And, you know, I mean, I've seen other couple other people on Twitter kind of put out some potential OWGR kind of charts over the next few weeks and years. It's going to be bleak. It's going to be bad. Tiger dropping out of the top 1,000 in the world. I mean, it wasn't too long ago that Tiger was playing relatively, you know, 8, 9, 10 events

right a year. And now, when you're not playing golf, you drop relatively quickly. So we'll see what they do with the Asian Tour thing. Again, you're talking about wrinkles, right? You're talking about the DP world being that wrinkle that in your world and I'm exactly right there with you, Salty. It's the piece of the pie I haven't eaten yet this year.

Like, you have kids, you've got a wife, you've got a life. We've got other things. You've got a whole business you're running. There is going to be a part of this that you just don't tune into. And now you're adding Asian tour to it. I'm like, man, I can't, I just can't, you know, like I can't. Of all the live storylines right now, the only thing I care about is is Bryson actually

gonna start playing Good Golf again. That's like all I care about is because I'm always interested in Bryson, the champ though. You know, I mean, I always interested in Bryson, the golfer. I was interested in how he played over the weekend at St. Andrews. And I find Bryson's golf game compelling. I found it compelling when he was an amateur, when we were covering him when the USA amateur. I found it compelling when he was playing

that shark shoot out with Lexi. And I still find him compelling. And so Bryson's like the one person in that whole sphere that I care about. And it's simply because of his golf game and his golf game alone. Yeah, and I think it probably fair criticism of us so far is that we've just as soon as somebody commits, we've shadowed them in some way, which it's honestly probably pretty fair. But like for the most part, it has been guys that are somewhat have somewhat lost their fastball in some way or have been hurt or

have at least a many aged out of many panic of like, do I don't know if it's there anymore. I would say that's Keppka. I will say, Cam, if they get Cam, that is a complete polar opposite of anyone they've gotten to this point. It is obviously quite literally in his prime and has probably many years left of his prime on his way up, currently achieving great things, currently high in the official World Golf Rankings. And at no point are we like, that's, you know, he's no longer is what he used to be. That is a devastating one, and the Hadecki rumors, which are extremely strong, so much smoke. And it's sad how this works now, but when there's this much smoke and you don't come out and deny it,

it's like, well, okay, that's not great. That's a tough one. And even if you do come out and deny it, you still might go. Also have thing, you know, but like the thing, okay, but to Sully, what's so wild? Like the stinson thing, you know, and I mean, Henrik Stinson has been this writer cupper. Like, I bet if I asked you to say three things about Henrik Stinson, writer cup would be in one of those three.

You know, I mean, you talk about the open and you probably talk about his sunglasses and then you probably talk about Ryder Cup's because he's been in so many of them. It's a part of who he is. And the cam thing is similar to me is, you know, cam has come out so often and talked about I don't need any more money.

I don't even know how much money I'm getting, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, which is still probably true. Even if they paid him 500 million, he still probably doesn't know 500 million to 2 million. What would really be the difference, right? But Cam just seems like a dude that wants to compete against the best. That's the thing that makes no sense to me is you nailed it. So many of the people that have gone to live are similar. They're older players and when I say older, they're 40 somethings that just aren't as consistent

as they used to be. Maybe it's because of practice. Maybe it's simply because of skill, whatever it is it is. And then you have some other guys like Keppka and you know, before St. Andrews, Bryson and some of those players, Dustin even that, you know, they, they probably aren't as, as die hard history golfers as maybe we thought they were, maybe Bryson is, but whatever. But like, cam, cam seems like that's all he wants to do in golf is to play Rory on Sunday. It's an Andrews or to play JT on Sunday. It's sawgrass, right? Like, that to me is who he is.

And by doing this, you kind of almost question what you thought about them, the golfer, right? Like not the person, but the golfer, because it's just going to be a little less competitive. Like that's the long and the short of it is 54 holes against 20 really freaking good golfers and 20 good golfers is different than playing 140 where maybe there's 20 good golfers and 20 good golfers is different than playing a hundred and forty where maybe there's 20 good golfers, but 70 really good golfers and 40 dudes that

go into, you know, I mean, it's just different. I was going to say to the camp point, he clearly doesn't like based on his usual decision making down the stretch of big money events. He doesn't care about money that much like he is willing to bet a lot of it. That's right. He's not, he's not, he's not hitting it down there for T4. He's like, I think I can make eagle. I'm maybe a devil eagle to win.

I'll do it. That's a really good point in terms of like, that's where I'm just like always left like, what am I watching? What am I doing here? Like, am I rooting for a guy's bank account or am I like, do I care about the result of this golf tournament, right? And that's where I, because I do not a guy's bank account? Or am I like, do I care about the result of this golf tournament, right?

And that's where I- Because I do not care how much money you win. Like, I don't care at all. Like, the person creases over the last two years when they come out at the majors. It's like, I don't need, it doesn't even mean any- It makes it a little more exciting to be, I think, a little bit of like, oh shit,

on and on the here, you might win two million bucks for finishing runner up at the players like that's kind of interesting here like this putt is for a million months. Yeah for one. Yeah for one. One comment and then it kind of goes away right like you're you're probably not included in your gamer. You know if you're dealing to share like it's probably not landing in your storyline. So I don't know I just it's it's so wild it bums me out as I know it bums you out. I've been in some text

conversations this week about leaving the old course in the home of golf and going right back into this and you're just, you just reminded that, you know, you kind of sometimes want to go back to the nicker days where they're just like playing with the, the, the wooden clubs in your, to nobody and you win like $80 when they win the open shape. Let's do something way more exciting or happy on your way out of here. Because I know you got to run, but I'm struggling to think of a time that I've been more jealous. Slash happy for my friends and watching you guys play golf into the sunset in Scotland.

Well, we missed you by the way. I know you were playing in the 150th open and all that went with that. And I don't even really have a question with that. I just want you to tell me, just make me a little bit more jealous as to how great the golf was. Well, I mean, you and I played Ely together the only other time I ever played it. We played it in some serious just mega win that day. It was nasty, nasty, nasty. It was not that windy was still blowing, but that one of the That one, if for sure, will blow his mind. Yeah. Oh, I mean, it's like you go to like a dinosaur museum

with your three year old. We're just everything is fucking awesome. And like, he was just everything, point in everything. You finish a hole and he would give you a summation of why the hole is excellent. And then you get to the next totally thing. Look at this tee box. It was a really fun experience to do that with Andy and Scotland on his first trip.

Porter's the best. I mean, I spent a lot. I spent more time with Kyle than I've spent with him in a long time, if ever, over these few days. And I'm reminded of how lovely a human being Kyle is. And he made a few birdies, which was always fun. Smart and played with us. Yeah, like these people are in our lives,

but they're not physically in our lives. Like we see him, we see him in passing, we text with him. You know, you reply on Twitter a few times a week, but when you get to like Joe Beale's a good example, like I've never really spent time with him before. And we rode in the car, you know Barric, two and a half hours, and we're shooting the shit about everything.

And it's like, it's like we're instantaneous pals. And it's a reminder of why you do it. It's a reminder of why you love it. The like, Krail, I've never played Krail. We're playing that routine off at 6 p.m. It was such an added bonus to a great week It was already fun for me and you know, you like you become best buddies again. You're like all right We'll see it the masters, you know, all right. We'll see it the presents cup like we'll play Sunday morning at a gust

You know it in around a gust of stuff where but I don't know I like we all are similar in ways We are very different in ways, but like playing golf with you or playing golf with Andy or playing golf with poor Athar KVV or you know the list goes on and on you really and you know when you're out on the golf course and you're looking over and They're smiling about a good shot or laughing about a bad shot and they're getting frustrated that are getting happy because it's they've got like Porter was clicking at Ealy caught calls like swing was clicking and like we. Kyle's like swing was clicking. And like we're partners and he's walking off T's and he's like, dude, I've caught it.

He was hitting this like, this slow, like he slowed down the driver and hitting his bleed or cut right down the middle of every fairway and it was just, Link's like, you know, he's kind of, he's smiling like, he's got this big smile and he's like, I found it, you know. And like Kyle never gets to do that stuff, you know.

I mean, Kyle's not getting to go on these like lengthy golf guide trips. I mean, he's got, you know, he's got the family at home and he's got a lot of responsibility. And so it was, it was just a beautiful week. I'd say in a lot of different ways. And I left, I left renewed and refreshed in terms of golf. And you know, I roll right into getting to play Connecticut open next week,

which I'm excited about. And I'm going to, I think I'm taking my son out for my practice right on Friday. Nice. I think I'm going to like ride around the cart and like just see the holes in an hour and a half until he loses his shit. But it's a, yeah, I mean, I'm a bum that we don't have a major coming up soon.

But I think personally I feel very refreshed from the whole experience. That's fantastic. No, it's a, I just, I can't imagine much more fun golf than in the evening on a firm on firm Scottish golf courses where you can play until midnight really if you really wanted to and it's a look we were chasing it Ealy dude like it was a quarter was Porter re hit a put on 16 but you missed a putt and he like pulled about 80s like we do not have time for that. We have got to go, we have two holes left

and we can barely see anything. And I mean, on 17, we all hit our T-shirts like, no clue, I mean, absolutely no clue, but you're kids again. You know, like you're come back to the hotel and like Toreco's walking out and you had your clubs at 11, 30 at night, you know? And like, he didn't even say anything,

just like smiles at you, you know, like he gets it. It was, yeah, that by the way, of all the places in golf I've ever been, even more than like under the tree at Augusta, just walking around the old course, like you're going to run into three golf people, you know, like it is, it is inevitable that you see Jimmy Roberts getting a coffee or, you know, like you walk by poor at and they're doing something with the RNA. It was just like, it was around that little area. Well, it was almost impossible.

If you followed golf Twitter, you were going to have a good day. That's awesome. Well, yeah, successfully made me even more envious than I already was, but well, maybe we'll change that up for Huy Lake. So we'll see if we can figure that out. But I so, hey, what is it? Do y'all not like, do you not like to travel to the majors on the weekend? Because it's just so much easier to kind of do your job around

Yes, it is and I mean makes it does and this is this one we leave for Taurus sauce in two days And this was we know we're gonna be out of the country for two weeks, and it was kind of like oh Is that do people know where you're going? No, they don't Wow, it's kind of like it was kind of gonna be a little tough on the home front to be like yeah We're gonna be home for, you know, basically gone for four weeks. That was just gonna be a tough one this year, but hoping to kind of figure out a way to do our live shows yet be in person. It's just tough.

I mean, you know, getting off the golf course and getting to a quiet place with video and connection. Really hard. Not that easy. And a lot of places you can't go live on site and all that stuff. So it's just easier usually for us to watch on TV, but yeah, it's one of those, you wish you could truly be in two places at once. So I know, I know.

I mean, we miss you guys and it was, it was fun. I mean, we had like the whole Cal Porter picture online when he's face like, like it melted off. We, I mean, it was funny. We were like all hanging out and then ship Nuck Wax by. We're like, come on in. Here you go. And I remember some guy walks by, he's like,

I follow all y'all on Twitter, you know? And like, Shackleford and Shipnuck and Porter and Smartin and Porath, it was like, all of you guys, like, I know you fall, if you follow one of these people, you follow all of these people, it was pretty hilarious. All right, cool. We'll meet up with you guys that live,

Bedminster and we'll catch up then. Thank you. No, thank you. We'll sign off on that. Shane really appreciate the time, buddy. I know we don't do this as often as we used to, but I know we got a lot going on, but it's always great having you back on.

I'm always appreciative. Any time, dude, any time. Cheers. Be the right club, be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club today. That is better than most. How about him?

That is better than most. Better than most. you