No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 585: Joey D

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

Golf fitness expert Joey D joins Soly for a look at his work with pros on tour, how improving hydration and diet can affect golfers of all skill levels, and ways we can all optimize our bodies to play our best golf. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXTSTEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. N/A in OR, NH, or NY. Risk free bet paid out in the form of non-withdrawable free bet token, max. $1,000. Min. $5 deposit. New customers only. Eligibility restrictions apply. See draftkings.com/sportsbook for full terms and conditions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sully here, we do not have a weekly recap this week. We are traveling for Taurusau Season 8 as we noted last week. Today's episode is an interview with Joey D. You could either be listening to this on the podcast or watching it on video because

we are uploading this full interview via video because Joey does a few Animations of some of the the activities he's talking about or certain things he's talking about and we'd usually don't do this with interviews Because it adds a layer of timing that makes it difficult But the fact that we had some time in between this interview and the release of it figure we throw this up here So hopefully you guys do enjoy that if If you're listening on the podcast feed, feel free to check it out on the YouTube feed as well. And maybe you can pick up a little bit more

about what Joey is talking about. Wanna give a shout out to our friends? Of course, at Callaway, the jaws, raw wedges are in stores now. This is in the official press release that they've given us ever since DJ took home the Thursday game win. As he mentioned, I believe in a previous read.

The wedges have been absolutely flying off the shelves. I've got mine. Listen, I'm not going to lie. I've not been able to play a lot of golf, but the little golf that I have been able to play, these things are crispy. They are so spinning. It's incredible how much spin I'm developing out of my 56 degree wedge. And you can go to CalawayGolf.com. You can even customize the weight ports, the paint fills and the stampings in the back of those wedges. You can get them in chrome, you can get them in plasma. There's a ton of offerings to them. We will be putting these on display in Taurus Sossi's Navy, which you'll be able to see this fall on our YouTube channel.

So again, calligolf.com slash jaws, raw and or you could go to calligolf.com slash customs as well to check that out. Also, I want to give a shout out to our friends at DraftKings MMA fans as the fighters face off during UFC 277. You can take down your own big win with DraftKings MMA fans as the fighters face off during UFC 277. You can take down your own big win with DraftKings Sports with the official sports betting partner of USC this Saturday. New customers can bet $5 on any fighter to win and get $100 in free bets win or lose. And if you want even more action, you can double your winnings on same game parles.

You can combine multiple bets like which fighter will win, how long the fight will last. And more just place your UFC 277 same game parlay. And if it hits, you'll win double. Draft Kings is safe, secure, and reliable. Best of all, you can deposit it and withdraw your cash whenever you want to download the Draft King Sportsbook app. Now, you use promo code NLU bet $5 on any UFC 277 fighter to win and get $100 in free bets.

No matter what, that's code NLU this Saturday at Draftking Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of UFC, new customers only bet $5 on UFC 277 and receive $100 in free bets, no matter what, Draftking's is the only sportsbook that offers same game parlays on UFC events. So that in your favor to lay, let's get to our interview with Joed. All right, to help lay the foundation

for today's conversation, give us an idea of your background. How did you get into the world of golf? Everyone's heard of Joey D in some capacity, but I don't know the story of how you got here. Yeah, so Eric Hillcoff is a very good friend of mine. He was for years the PGA tour travel coordinator, and he worked with a whole group of people on one day. He's like, hey, I got a guy who's interested in getting a little bit more, you know, fit. He's a golfer and there was Jesper Parnovic and history was made.

I learned about moon rocks and eruterians and probably one of the most interesting one of my most favorite guys that I've ever worked with. So we had a We had a really good run together and Jesper still till this day is somebody that I think has worked with. So we had a really good run together, and yes, first, still to this day, somebody that I think has a lot of perspective that people might not understand, but I enjoy him as a person and as a player. He was very accomplished at that time.

Tell me about your relationship with golf, though. Were you a golfer, turn fitness instructor, fitness instructor, turned golf specialist in that? How did you help translate golf fitness? I think I don't think there was. I mean, you and I could agree, if you look at the history, there was no golf fitness ever. It didn't exist.

And I think what we did, the pioneers, I hate to even call myself that, because it just dates me so bad, but that's reality. So I think you got a lot of pioneers that were responsible, it's not just me. I think timing is always the key in life to success because people, the young and up-and-coming golf fitness professionals will always say coach you know what is it that we need to do to get there and I think that timing a little bit of lock

and you know the perspective that you have to want to make change gives, least way to where we are today. So it was just something, I think timing was everything in life back then. How would you describe then timing wise or timeline wise? What fitness and professional golf has looked like? I mean, Gary Player gets a lot of credit for basically inventing it, Tiger took it to an entirely different level.

And we're gonna get into a lot of the details of what fitness means and what strength means, what flexibility means and all that. But how would you describe your understanding of that timeline and professional golf? You know, I think about Gary Player's total this day, and I look at the aging process. And I looked at how strong players were back in that time

where there wasn't fitness that they knew how to implement, nor did they want to have any part of it. So Gary was just ahead of his time and I think he really stands out as somebody that I would say is the father of all fitness. He was the true I would think pioneer. He was the one who started it all. When I look at him today at his age, I mean, I'm like, that's a testimony, that's a statement. You know, and I look at Mr. Nicholas, and I see that, you know, life maybe he didn't do the same thing. And I think that, you know,

I have a very good friend of mine that plays tennis with Jack. So Jack's still very active. You know, I think that that to me was the person. He was the person that basically started it all. So, you know, I look at there's a lot of different people that, you know, played their part in where we are today. I just don't know if everybody recognizes that. Well, then how does it, how does it work with Tiger? Do you know kind of his fitness journey? You look at his images as an amateur and as a college

player, he looked very different as of maybe five years after that and into the early 2000s. What contributed to him wanting to do that and what did he do in the gym? And I know this wasn't a student necessarily of yours that we're talking about, but I just want to understand kind of the way that he helped start, I think, is where you come in and I want to know what Tiger did.

What did he do? I mean, we where you come in, and I want to know what Tiger did. What did he do? I mean, we see the pictures, but what do you do? I think that that's a great question. I think Tiger being probably the most unique, iconic one of a kind. They'll never be another one again. He took into consideration that if he was going to be the best he could be, he was going to put every bit, every tool in his arsenal that he could to make himself just, you know, like the man of steel on the golf course. And I think he understood what was right for him. I don't

know that it was right for everybody else, but he looked at what he did, how he, his evolution as a player as a man. And I think you look at all of us, like take a look at yourself back when you were in college or you were at that time in your life, you know, the body starts to mature, hormones kick in, testosterone is an all-time high. And if you pay attention to like calories in, protein recynthesis, how do you get, how do you gain strength? Like, I just think he was a student of himself, a student of the game, and he just took that opportunity and he was unwilling to do anything but make himself great. And I think, you know, he, I think he takes advice from a lot of people and then he decides

what's right for him. And I think he created this, you know, routine for himself that he, unlike everybody else, he, there was no time clock for him but of the day. he did what he had to do to be the best he could be. And I love that about him. He still till this day, he works with Coach K Wayne and he's a partner, Colby T.A. is a partner of ours here at the Academy. And I know that Colby sees him on a daily basis

which is really still impressive after what he's gone through. His work ethic, his, you know, consistency to persevere through something where most people would use that as a crotch or say, I can't perform at that level anymore. And I think you still watch who he is today. And he's still somebody who we all admire. He's still somebody who you want to try to figure out, like, how does he still have that gear where he is in life with what he went through? And I don't know the, even asking the question, I think how I'm going to ask it. Sounds like I'm asking it in the wrong way.

But I'm curious because there's a lot of people that have written about and has spoken about Tiger's health journeys over the years, right? And said, did he do the right stuff in the gym, right? At times, from an outsider's perspective, it seemed like he was just dead-settle and getting pretty buff, getting pretty ripped, and look at very jacked. And I have no idea if that's the actual case, but if you look back at like the things he's done over the years, is there anything that kind of would put a alarm bells up in terms of, you know, the injury history that he's had? Because I do know, you know, I want to talk about injury prevention with you too, and how that all works into fitness and everything.

But is any of that criticism or critique that's gone into tiger over the years, is it well-founded at all in your opinion? I think when you ask that question, what I figured out is if you don't have the correct information and you form and you have an opinion, what you're entitled to, just doesn't mean that it's a valid one, right?

Like if you don't know enough about the human body and you don't know enough about strengthening the science of biomechanics and you don't know how it all works, then it's just an opinion. And you can do a lot of research, but if you don't know the actual application, for him, I think, you know, where in terror is part of the aging cycle. So did it do anything to hinder him?

I don't think so. I think Tiger knows his limits. And I think I look at every athlete who is as bluff as fit, as jack, as strong across the board in every sport. And I don't see that hindering. I see the evolution of the human body, sports science. Is it an all all time high today? And I think he just was an early adapter.

He wasn't afraid to figure out, is this gonna help or hurt? He knew what he knew. And I'm sure when things didn't work for him, Tiger's a type of guy, because I'm not gonna do that, but I'm gonna do what I need to do to figure out how I perform the best on my course.

And it's interesting because I think, you know, I would definitely put myself in the uninformed category of what you just described there. But when he would come back from injury and he would, you know, come back play a tournament and then he'd say, like, yeah, you know, I'm not feeling great. I need to get back in the gym. I think we'd all be like, oh, man, really again, like, why is that such a big priority? Yet as time goes along, I think I understand more in terms of if you want to look at the sustainability of a golf season, which is a long season, there has to be a level, a baseline of body preparation for that that has to be maintained

and balanced throughout the course of a year. And that's something I want to understand from you is I have been on a little bit of a golf fitness journey, nothing to the point where I could really fully understand everything we're going to talk about today, but I battle soreness and routine and how do how do I get into a routine where I'm working out my body yet also training my swing a little bit. And do I do that on the same days I'm lifting? How do I manage the soreness of the body?

What's the best timing of these workouts in relation to rounds of golf that I care about? What is kind of your philosophy and input on how a person's body stays a professional golfer's body, gets maintained over the course of a year and when they should be doing certain things? I think two different applications, right? If you're a recreational player and you play once a week, right? And you know, you don't put any preparation in locations, right? If you're a recreational player and you play once a week, right? And,

you know, you don't put any preparation in before you go to the driving range. If you even get there, because most people time is, it's just a factor in life, right? Like, we don't have enough time to do anything anymore, but you go to the golf course. I don't see a lot of people that have a routine, right? So they get out there and they start beating balls and then they go and play and you're swinging as hard as you can when in essence, your body might not be ready for that. So it's a couple parts that I'll answer the question.

As a professional golfer, they have the support now, from the physios to the guys like myself, to massage therapy to everything they need, chefs available, like recovery is key for a professional athlete, right? It starts off with recovery, and then the opportunity to fuel your body, so nutrition comes in. Hydration is huge. People don't understand it, and they should take the time to figure out

why hydration is key in the human body. And then the preparation that we go through before they even put a club in their hand and go to the driving range because they're pros and that's what they do before they go black, right? So for them, the system has been put in place where they now know their routine has to be something that they participated on a daily basis to create success to prevent injury and give themselves opportunity to get stronger, maintain balance, mobility, stability, power and speed. start off with choose whichever one you want, but get no different than you going in for

a checkup with your doctor. You get a baseline of blood work, you get a baseline of where you are, your heart rate, like people just don't pay enough attention to their body. I think that's where golf fitness became really something that was a game changer. So if you pick and choose a system that you like, whichever one works for you, not just hours, but anyone, and get a baseline of where is your flexibility? Like, where is your body's ability to rotate? Like, if you don't know those things, like how far can the arm move back and create an angle so the club, you know, wants to get the parallel to the target line? How much rotation do you have versus what you think you have

and perception is not always reality, right? Like if you get a baseline to find out what's your internal external rotation of your hips? Like what's your cue angle? How do you, but nobody, you know, that's something that still maybe remains a mystery or people who I don't have time for that, but you wanna play better golf.

It's arguably the most difficult movement in all of any sport that we know of. There are more moving parts in 1.5 to 2 seconds than you'll ever see. And I think that if you were somebody who wanted to pay a little attention on your golf fitness journey, like you were talking about, you would pay attention to probably once or twice a year checking into some type of assessment and evaluate, where is your body? Right? Like, everybody wants to run out and get the new driver. But if your body can't, you know, what we always say is, last time I checked, the club

doesn't move the body, the body moves the club. That's pretty hard to argue, right? Club is not going to move itself. So if people took a little bit of an initiative, even if it was just a small six to eight point evaluation, you could probably figure out some of the things you needed to do to not be sorted, not get injured, to create a little bit more speed. How's your balance? You're swinging out of your shoes.

You're walking off after a swing because you can't stay in balance. There's no stability. All of a sudden your arms are raising and you didn't really turn your back to the target. These are simple or easy opportunities for you to understand how do you get better? What should you do not to get her? And I think that's probably a good way to start. Yeah, I think one thing that's clicked for me too was this is, you can improve your golf game, improve your consistency through fitness,

and also it just feels better day to day, right? I mean, that's, you know, if I go bang balls, that's not going to necessarily make my body feel it just feels better day to day, right? I mean, that's a, you know, if I go bang balls, that's not gonna necessarily make my body feel better, just walking around day to day, but, you know, kind of going back to that baseline and getting like a certain level of fitness just inspires you to eat a little bit better, inspires you to hydrate a little bit better.

And I want to back up to that. You were, you were heavy on the emphasis there on hydration, saying a lot of people don't understand that. Help me understand hydration, because I would probably put myself in that category then of not fully understanding it. So we actually took a lot of time through the years to work with really intelligent scientists and people who knew more than we did to educate us, right? And we think about peptide bonding agents like amino acids. The body makes a certain amount of them, and then it doesn't make what it needs.

So to have something that has an amino acid ability to peptide bond cells, water has to either go into the body and get absorbed or it does. So the nutrients that you need, the alkaline levels, I think hydration, most people would probably live a little bit dehydrated and don't know it. And we always say, if you watch what happens to people, when they're outside, especially in the summertime,

look how many people struggle with dehydration. What's the first thing in your mind that comes like to the front of your mind when you go, I'm dehydrated. What do you do, Persever? What do you think happened? I think I think would be, would be a quick one. Yeah. You get fatigue. So the brain starts to function last. And I think the second thing that kicks in right away is you're really thirsty, which now it's already too late. And the third thing that comes to mind is you start to cramp. Right? So I think those are maybe some of the signs.

And I think if people recognize that what's the old, you know, that old standard says you need 10, 8 ounce glasses of water a day minimum. I don't know how many people in the world drink that much water. Probably not enough, but I do know with athletes, the ability to have a high level of cognitive awareness, functionability, no fatigue, like to perform at a high level, we've done everything we can to partner with really smart people that say, this hydration product is great for what you're doing. And I think, you know, you would agree if you asked and pulled all of your listeners,

how many people would just do a task to every day to wonder if they, you know, you would agree if you asked and pulled all of your listeners, how many people would just do a test every day to wonder if they, you know, let's take, take one gallon, put it on your desk in the morning or at your house. Can you finish a gallon a day? Probably most people go, I don't like taste of water. I can't drink that much water. But at the end of the day, I think you have to ask yourself the question is, what does hydration mean to you? And I love what you said because it does create fatigue.

You do start to slow brain function and then you get cramping. And then there's like all these things that happen that we can avoid just by taking a little bit of time to pay attention to what hydration means. Any tips for that in particular, I've heard all kinds of, you know, they're probably fast weight loss tricks that aren't really accurate. But you know, wake up and if you drink 32 ounces of water, when you wake up, that helps set your metabolism for the day, blah, blah, blah. Any truths any of that?

I think, yeah, I think basically at the end of the day, everybody should start off with eight to ten ounces of water every day just to, you know, get going. And then kind of give yourself an opportunity, whether you set your phone or your tablet or whatever, to give yourself a reminder to say, hey, need to drink another, you know, I don't think, I think people what they do is, you try to drink too much, and then the body, you feel full, right?

Or you just people don't like the taste of water. So I think they have water additives that are pretty good, right, they have flavor additives, and I think there's opportunity for people to understand you want to have the right amount of amino acids in your body every day, liquid. So I would take those two tips and say, like, the end of the day for me,

I'd probably set a timer as a reminder. You know, these fit bits and these smart watches, like people at their desk every day go, hey, it's time to get up and walk around the office. So there's opportunity for you to make better choices. I feel like I can do it on a one-to-two-day basis. And then the third day, I need to get better at a routine of it, especially, I mean, especially like living in Florida.

I totally underestimated how much water you need in the summer. I mean, if you're going to go play golf, like how much you're going to actually sweat out. And I was like, no, think about that. Four or five hour rounds. Like, what do you do personal? What's your routine? You drink enough water in a row?

I would try to do, I mean, I carry these 32 ounce yeties around and I would, every chance, my rule is like, if I get to a water fountain and I haven't drank at all, I'm behind. So, I'll chug it. Yeah, I like that. I think, I mean, but that's what we talked about. It's some type of measuring opportunity for you to go.

I'm not where I need to be. I am where I need to be or I'm behind where I need to be. I like that. And if I'm not going to the bathroom, then I'm not drinking enough probably at the same time. Correct. And that's another sign. That's a great point that I missed

that you just picked up on is if you're not going to the bathroom and basically stopping at the relief station, every, you know, at least on the front nine and then on the back nine, you're not hungry. Right? So that's a big thing. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Cash App. It is of course the easiest way to spend and save your money. You can send a request money from friends or family when they owe you money for dinner. You can invest in any stock or by Bitcoin with just $1 as I go to check it right now. Bitcoin up 8% today, not a big deal. Comes with a debit card. You can customize and cash app

with laser print and mail it to you. Comes with a debit card, you can customize and cash app with laser print and mail it to you. Comes with free discounts on places you love called Boost, best of all. You can use code NoLang up when you sign up, it gives new users $15 and cash app will set aside $10.00, donated directly to youth on course. The more people using code NoLang up when signing up for cash app, not only are you getting $15, you're also helping to support junior golf. I've had a great time with this app.

I use it pretty much every day to look in on how the markets are doing. It's something fun with Bitcoin, but we're on our way back up. So check out CashUp, Code No Lang Up, free $15 and $10 to Euthle Encore. Let's get back to Joey D. What about diet? I mean, I think there's a lot of narrative around the pro golfers now. They eat so good. They work out so much.

It's a totally different tour, all these things. I couldn't, yet at the same time, I couldn't tell you what actually goes in diet wise to these guys. How involved are you in that process? One, what, and- I'm very involved. I think, you know, that's a great question for people in general. I can the world afford their own personal chefs, probably by and large, but not most of us can, but when you're an athlete at that level, if we're gonna use them as an example, I think when it's available at your, and it's an opportunity for you to take advantage of, we look at where the balance is and calories

and requirement at Chloric Burm. So if you're burning more calories, then you need more calories. If you're burning less calories, you need less calories. But at the end of the day, the body has a set point. I think, you know, people will always say that you, you should eat what's in the palm of your hand, right? That's a pretty good basic opportunity to say, I can digest this much. It's about 0.08 grams of protein to like maybe 0.07,

like a little less than a gram propellant of body weight. Now, can you eat that in whole food every day? I don't know that that's possible, depending on how much you weigh. But if you use the ratio of maybe I wanna get about 60% of my calories from protein, right? And then I wanna get 20% of my calories from complex carbohydrates and about 20% of my calories from complex carbohydrates,

and about 20% from essential fats. I think that's a good baseline to understand balance and why is it matter. And they've always talked about having balanced meals three times a day. I think that's just a baseline. But I think if you look at what your output is, you then have the opportunity

to say, what do I need to feel like I'm completely sustained with the right amount of calories? And it's not just about what you eat. It's about what you absorb. Absorption is a huge thing people should take a little time and understand. So when you eat food, what is that food doing for you? If it's processed, and we kind of know a lot about this in the general scope of things, people always say, don't shop on the inside of the grocery store or shop on the outside. Eat more whole foods, more fruits, more vegetables, eat things that are not processed, and you have a better opportunity for more or a quality of a diet that's more healthy, right?

Like keep the sugars to a low, keep the fats to a low, stay away from fried foods as much as you can. Those are basic opportunities. And I think what I've learned over all these years, preparation is the big struggle. Would you say yourself, you struggle with preparation or you struggle eating enough every day? That's a question I would ask all the listeners.

Preparation for sure, it's like, well, I'd... Yeah, I think me too. Yeah. Even at my level, and I'm fortunate enough to travel in my profession with a chef, right? And the food is there and he forces us to pay attention. Like, before we go to the gym in the morning, it could be like a 6.37 AM session. There might be four scrambled egg whites and three ounces of oatmeal with blueberries.

We go to the gym, it's a two hour session. We come back. There's a 12 to 14 ounce smoothie made with a very high quality organic based whole food meal supplement that has everything in it that you need. The consume that. So that's two and a half, three hours later. And then he makes a whole foods launch. And that might be something like an organic chicken breast that's four to six ounces with a sweet potato. Like, that's extreme, but that's a good point.

And I see more and more and more, I was in public the other day, and I was looking to get the kids something healthy. publics now in the prepared food section. Every single day, there's opportunities. And I saw it was like chicken breast, there was, there was sweet potato, there was broccoli in it. I don't know that everybody makes those choices. But I think if you just think about better choices, you have better opportunity to be a little more successful with your nutrition. No, that, that, it makes all the sense of the world when you hear it, right?

And it's just, you can, I personally can be like, I can do that for a day. And then the next day, it's like, ah, we're out. Let's get Chick-fil-A now. And then. So you would say the same thing I would say. It's the same thing with golf. It's the same thing with nutrition. It's all about, do you have the perception

or are you in the reality that you can set something realistic? So setting realistic goals in our conversation today can apply to your training, it can apply to your sleep, your hydration, your nutrition, and I don't think people, this is what I see when people come into our academy, they do not actually have a plan for a realistic expectation of what they can do.

Hence, maybe why the training world or your fitness world, whether it's an LA fitness, lifetime, it's a gold gym, it's your local country club, maybe the trainers in that world have become more successful because people rely on somebody to make them account. That's fair. 100% 100% 100% that's exactly what I wanted to ask you as well as like I I can go the gym

by myself and every you know every time I've joined a gym they give you that free training session that first time out and they kick your ass. It's kind of intentional and whatnot, but it is just different when you have somebody looking at what you're doing, checking your form, pushing you to a limit first going by yourself, and it's hard to simulate. I tell you, one of the things that COVID did for us

in this world that was a positive thing is our ability for people to get on a tablet or device, a Zoom like we're on right now. And we created follow- follow along programs that helped you because we became sensitive to not everybody in the world could afford the price point of what a trainer costs. But they want the result of what you just said, the accountability.

So I think what we did well along with many other people were what could we do to help the world dial into better golf fitness. And that's what we did in our app on our online platform website. Like in all of the things we did as a brand, as a company, as a team, was create more opportunity and more education for people to dial in to get that accountability. Like no, it's not the same thing as going to the gym with somebody, but there does and there is Opportunity in doing that. Well back to the professional world. I want to know like how how are you coming up with you know guys

Routines and how often are those changing and what what are the you know Do you guys you guys have someone on your team or a group of people on your team that are traveling week to week on the tour to work with these guys From a fitness perspective. I'm wondering how you can kind of lay out like what a guy like JT or DJ or KEPCOS week at home looks like versus what a week on the road at a tournament looks like. I don't think they've become more consistent and less dissimilar on the road. And I think, you know, when Colby has the most amount of players out of all of us, he has the opportunity to always be assessing on a daily basis because we, in the professional world, get to work with their swing coaches.

And so now there's a team, more so than ever golf has become a team sport. In the way that no, we don't go out to get to play together, but in the preparation to the point where they go actually tee off, you know, somebody like Marnus in the DJ camp, he gets him on the table and does table modalities where he's working on his flexibility, his muscle activation, his joint mobility. I'm working on the body's activation stuff. And then, you know, the swing coach and then get to get together and go, now that the body's ready to do this, let's go after, you know, technique, form, speed, whatever it is that they're working on.

So I think if you back it up, a click outside the professional world, you know, you have the opportunity to do things that make sense to mimic what they do. Take a little bit, leave the rest. It doesn't work for you and create a routine. Can you teach me, I guess, I don't know if we wanna start with animatomic neutral center of gravity and how your brain sends messages to the rest of your body, but I wanna have a conversation about

how you can make the club go faster. I don't know if it makes sense to start there or if you start with at the end. It does, take a second. You're, no, you're very intelligent by asking that question because you actually have to start in balance. And if you ask most people, are you in balance, the one great thing that we've been able to do with balance and measuring devices is we put people on to create a baseline. So they'll take a swing,

they see themselves actually right there in real time because it's a camera-based system, right, whether it's 2D or 3D. And then they take a swing and you ask them, are you in balance? Is there a 50-50 distribution between toes and heels, right? And most people have a perception of what they think is balance and go, oh yeah, I was in my arms. Or I was in my 70% of my weight was in my heel at the top of my back's weight. Or you actually show them the data. 70% was in their toe.

So I think starting in balance and understanding what anatomical neutral means, which is the strongest point of the human body when standing up. Right. So you're not too far forward, you're not too far backward, you're not too far backward, you don't lean to the right or the left, you're in a position where the human body feels the connection to the ground. And it has the ability to control itself through a full swing with a certain rate of speed.

Because you probably have seen this when you've played, and the old saying goes, don't swing out of your shoes because you can't control the ball or your body. So balance opportunities, I think that's where it all starts. If you want to swing faster, you've got to understand where you are in your setup through your swing. Are you maintaining your balance through the whole thing? That's why I always go back to is like, man,

the amount of golfers that have a perfect setup and bad golf swings is not very many. It's, it's not like if you see somebody set up to a golf ball perfect, they know what they're doing with a golf club really. And they do, yeah, and their body and their and their in tune with their body. That's exactly what I'm saying is you're not that's not a technical thing to set up strong and athletic is not a technical thing. That is a, I would think that that's a natural athletic ability. A balance you're able to find that says here from this position is my best chance for my body to perform, or to perform. Am I on to something with that?

Yeah, I think I would agree with that. If you can actually figure out and feel where your body is, you have a better chance to execute a smoother swing in balance, giving yourself an opportunity to square the face and go through the ball with a little bit of speed and opportunity to do what you want to do. What are some things that restrict swing speed? Can either be muscle wise or just swing technique wise. I'm wondering where you would go with that. But what are common things?

Let's say avoiding professional golf. What are common things that you see, you know, holding some people back, some amateurs that may come to you? What holds them back in terms of being able to create speed? First and foremost, they have to be able to understand like what their capabilities are. Right? So what holds them back is they don't really know enough about the golf swing they haven't. You know, spent any time on lessons with a qualified instructor. And that's the first thing that we see.

Like we go straight away to we want to be the best assistance that we can be for people like we're not saying and we're not taking the jobs. And we actually have our own instructors like Dr. Dave Donovan here. And Marvin and we've got guys that are actually swing instructors, and we've put together a team of people that when they come in, we have an opportunity for everybody to work together to say, one of the things you have to understand is set up.

You gotta understand your address position, are your legs too flexed, are they too straight, are you too far your toes, are too far on your heels? Like, do you even have the ability to rotate around your spine and know what that is? Because some people think rotation, they're doing it when they're actually just turning a little bit and their arms straight up

and they are like a lightning rod. Like you think about things like that and it's teaching people to understand where they are in time and space versus the perception of what they think they're doing. Not a lot of people want to see themselves on camera, because it may not look pretty, or they don't like what they see. So I always say, we want to start you from the ability

to understand the golf swing. And then we go into like an assessment process where we give you the opportunity to understand what has to happen in the golf swing. And then we put a program that works on your balance, that works on your flexibility, that works on your flexibility, that works on your joint mobility, that works on your speed and your power.

So we put together multiple components to get people to work one piece at a time, to build a complete golf body, which builds a better golf swing. That's, I think, to a common misconception and even the way I talk about it, it's not all just about creating swing speed, right? I mean, I would guess your top guys are, yes, they want to keep in main, you know, they want to get to a certain swing speed level and they want to be able to

maintain it, but there's a certain consistency that has to come with professional golf of, you know, they, they're traveling every week, going to different golf courses, different grass types, different climates, different everything. Having as many things constant as possible. And it seems like a lot of your guys' work is to have you feeling, you know, instead of feeling stronger and stronger and stronger each week, you want people to feel the same each week. Is that a way of going? Correct. Yeah. I think consistency for players is the most important thing. They know if their club head speed is down a tiny bit or their ball speed is off. They know if their swing speed is off, right?

And that's our job to be able to keep them in a place where they're not, they don't have any, they're not digressing at all, they're being consistent and they're maintaining what they have to do. Because golf is not a perfect game, it's a game of consistency and the opportunity to say, per club, can you do what that club needs to do because golf is not a perfect game. It's a game of consistency and the opportunity to say per club, can you do what that club needs to do?

Does it have the right ball flight? Does it have the right distance? Does it have the right control, shape of your shot? All of those things have to do with is your body doing the right thing or you swinging at the right tempo. Do you have the right amount of rotation? Did you swing short? Was it quick? All of those things happen?

Did your feet stay connected to the ground? Like did you spin out too quick? Did your hips slow down? Like all of those things matter and I think keeping them consistent in their feel and their body's ability to match what that swing needs to be is key. I'm going to give you two options to choose from on this and there's a very good chance that your your answer might be neither of these two options, but if I made you pick between these two, let's say I'm so and so, I'm 10 handicap golfer, I walk in, I want to know what

I'm not swinging the club very fast, what's more likely that would be causing that? A lack of strength or a lack of flexibility between those two options, what's the more likely answer? Yeah, I think that people don't have enough, and you use the word flexibility, and I think the misconception is, if your vocabulary is strong enough to know what the words mean, flexibility is a part of it, it's a part, correct answer,

but you have to be able to make a large enough turns. You need more rotation to create more speed and velocity, right? If you don't turn as much, or you want to throw a ball like this versus throwing a ball like that, your range emotion gives you an opportunity to create more mobility, a greater turn, more range emotion, and thus the velocity increases. Like if you want to crack a whip like this versus cracking a whip like that, you see that it creates so much more velocity. And I think that's the key for people is to understand how do you do that? Right? So that's a great question.

I think the answer is strength will always come, but you still have to have that ability to be more flexible, have more mobility, bigger turn, greater range of motion. Those are the keys to really, you know, having more speed and the opportunity to do something that makes sense. And I've heard so many different things over the years of like, hey, speed on the golf swing comes from the separation of your shoulder turn versus your hip, and your ability to move your hips through the target, and blah, blah, blah, it's the little muscles, not the big muscles. And you hear all those things, and I just want to hear like an expert actually explain

that. I think you did partially there, right? But if you were to just kind of define what makes the club go faster, it's probably different than even what I have in my head. Yeah, and I think a lot of people would benefit from your question. I always say the great success and a great interview like this is the interviewer asking great questions for people who listen to your show to go,

you know what, that was worth the whole hour of 45 minutes because it's that one thing that you spoke about that gives people that aha moment. So when you think about two opposing forces, right, people talk about X factor or separation. If everything turns together, there's no opposing force. But if you create more stability from the lower body, right, it's sort of like winding a rubber band. It's an easier way to think about it, right? It's sort of like winding a rubber band. So easier way to think about it, right?

If you wind a rubber band, you hold the top and you spin the bottom. So if the top is stable, or you do it the opposite way around, if the bottom is stable and you spin the top, what happens to the rubber band? It gets more loose or gets more ton. Yeah, correct, correct. So if you think about what happens is if you take the human body, and you stabilize the lower body, and you wind up the upper body, it's like a sling shot, and then you let it go, and you have all that speed. But if everything turns together, there's no opportunity for you to create separation. It's separation. Any great teaching profession or will tell you that if you create the proper amount of separation, you have much more success and ease to be able to actually create more power and speed just

actually through the ball, right? And I think that makes a lot of sense for people. And if they understand how to do that, they become more interested, more excited, they create more consistency to get that speed and it's requires a lot of separation. That's really interesting. Stability and mobility. Because I always- Two opposing forces. Yeah, I get it in my head too that like a lot of power comes from your lower body, but I don't- I couldn't just- I wouldn't have described it the way you just did.

But if you watch it more simply defined, the best players in the world, right, they always have that amount of separation with these two opposing forces. So you'd see like as you're going through the golf swing, once you make a big turn in the lower body, the upper body slows down, the lower body speeds up so that belt buckle, the hips get more to the target as everything comes through an impact. Now you see all this power. People that swing and they don't have separation, they're always gonna struggle to get that speed

and power and ability to do what they're trying to do. It's great to have the greatest clubs and the greatest driver and the better golf ball, but if you can't get the body to do what it needs to swing that club or good luck, the body just blew 1200 bucks and I freaking it. And this may be more of the 400 level class than it is something that I think will help a lot of people

listen to this, but can you help me understand how a let's take the top professionals, what their relationship with the ground is like, maybe through impact or through the key parts of the swing, what is their lower body doing in relation to the ground? In my head, they're kind of almost lifting up and using the ground with force as they're getting towards impact or at impact. Can you kind of teach me or explain that?

Yeah, absolutely. So I think what happens for people in the general scope, not to over-complicated, is ground forces create so much power because you stabilize from your feet and you work that kinetic chain or that energy works all the way to the top, right? So if you're really loose on the bottom and you don't have any ground connection, you lose that ability to transfer energy. So what you're really saying is the more ability you have to control the ground, the more ability you have to create force, right? The less ability you have, the less force you create. So we use force plates and technology to really determine where you are with

a force plate. Now everybody has that at their disposal, but I would say if you're more aware of your connection to the ground, you have more stability in your feet, you know, and they don't spin out in your golf swing, you'll see that you have more ability to create more power. The less connection you have to the ground with your feet, the less that energy transfers because there's not as much energy from the ground up. So great players use ground forces and you see them do a great job because they transfer that energy, their feet are connected to the ground a little bit

longer and then through the ball the release points are much more accurate, right? You got to be able to release your ankles, your feet, and they invert, and they move to the right or the left, and then you watch that transition when the feet begin to leave the ground, that power comes from the ground on. Kind of merging some lessons we've dove into in the past on this on this podcast is about mental golf as well. And one of the one of the things I learned a lot through the mental golf process was the understanding of tension and how tension works through the body and how you know, it feels like you want to grip it tight

to create a faster swing, right? But I've not found that to actually be the case. I'm wondering what your understanding is of of tension and how that helps, you know, people create more free motion. I think when people, you know, get great lessons, they, you know, they talk about, it starts from where you put the club in your hand, right? So if you squeeze something too difficult,

or too tightly, it becomes very difficult because you're tensing all of the muscles up from the fingers, to the wrist, to the forearm, to the biceps, to the shoulder. Like you begin to transfer that energy, and the tenth, the the biceps, to the shoulder. Like you begin to transfer that energy and the more tense you are, the more difficult it is to feel relaxed enough to create the positions of the arms, allow the torso to turn properly

because you put in a death grip that shows cold on the grip. So using the ability to feel your fingers and control what you're doing has a lot to do. And I think people should always start with asking a trained professional what should grip pressure feel like. And sometimes people can simply put a few more wraps on the grip. Maybe it's a larger grip so they don't have to feel like they have to squeeze that too much.

Because remember the tighter you grip, the more you have the ability to lose control and feel. And I think that's a really valid question. Because at the end of the day, people should understand that grip strength, grip pressure has a lot to do with the ease and feel to create the ability to make a better turn, put your arms in the right position. It's really important to understand grip pressure. And I think you should always talk to your club fitters and builders and talk about why grip

pressure and what does a grip mean to you in a golf swim, right? Like you have better control of how you move your hands and your wrists by how you grip a club. And I think that extends past just the grip as well in terms of, you know, if you get to the top of your swing and all of a sudden everything gets electrocuted and you start adding tension, I struggle with that too. I can take it back nice and smooth

and then when I go to make transition, I add tension to everything. And I don't, I've learned that does not bowed very well for a golf swing. And I was just, yeah, and I think it's hard for people to feel that, right? Like it's something you have to be able to work on. Like, feel is an opportunity for you to swing better. But I think like we've goes back to like in 1.5 seconds.

Sometimes people don't even know what they feel. You have to learn what feel means, right? People say you got to swing more relaxed. You got to take a deep breath, like the mental side of golf. What are those things that you do to relax yourself, to calm yourself, to be able to make a swing that doesn't feel like you're so tense? More tension, less feel, less turn, less feel. Again, I'm merging a couple things.

I think this came from the Vision 54 people, but they taught the lesson of the left brain is, you know, you trying to tell your body what to do and right brain is more of the creative side and the feel side of things. And I'm just curious how that relates to you, just because it's from reading some materials on your website, right? You do talk a lot about, you know,

the your balance, stability, power, things like that that I think comes from a general creative and athletic sense. And I'm just wondering align it in the book that I read that always stuck out to me was like Tiger Woods can't tell his body what to do. Like the people that are most the most talented players can't tell their body how to swing it, but their body knows how to swing the club the right way. And I'm wondering if any of this makes any sense in anything that you would work on and do. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense. You know, all human beings have the innate ability to be able to let their brain control their function, right? That's why people that suffer

strokes. You see that they can't walk, they can't eat. It's, it's, that's an extreme. But if sometimes you use the extremes as examples, right? When, when part of the brain dies or it doesn't send the right signals, those neurosceptors don't allow the body to do simple things that you would just think like grip wise or capability to understand where are you in balance? What is the brain, obviously the feet being the furthest thing from the brain, what is the brain telling you, are you in balance, you're not in balance, you're in your toes, you're heels, where are you in your sense of what the brain is

telling the body. And I think there's a lot of good point that goes along with what you're saying is that your ability to work on brain function and awareness through visualization drills and the opportunity to go, what's the difference between you doing something like what we say is, stand straight off, take one of your feet, take it off of the ground with your eyes open. Simple drill, right?

Count to 10. Now all of a sudden close your eyes, see what happens. That's a big difference. So those type of drills, you should do things with your eyes open with your eyes closed. It gives you an opportunity to create the sense of reality versus the perception. And those are just simple drills. Stand on one foot, close your eyes.

Stand on one foot, open your eyes. Work on simple ability to like tell your brain what's real versus what's not. And it's really important, I think at the end of the day, people don't have a perception of reality very often because feel really isn't real. That's very well said. Question about, you know, more on the professional side again, I'm wondering, to my knowledge, I don't think you work with Bryson or have worked with Bryson at all. But wondering if in the last two years, I know pretty well, but pre-endery to Bryson,, let's say like, I'm wondering if he, if what he has done has changed how the pro golfers come to you and say like, all right, well listen now that I've seen how he's doing this like maybe I do want to change a few things. I'm wondering if that has any. Have you felt that influence at all and any of the guys you work with? No, okay. tell everybody from a tour perspective, people knew Bryson was a unique individual,

especially other tour players. I don't think a lot of them agreed with what he was doing because everybody has an opinion. Doesn't mean everyone wants to hear it, but we all have one. And I think for Bryson, he very well knew he might have taken something to an extreme. And even him, like he's backed off of what he was doing,

he's made adjustments and change. So to his credit, I always admire Bryson for being willing to do what he thought was right. And I admire him for understanding that, listen, what you did could have created. Not saying it didn't, I'm just saying from my opinion, my observation, he did what he had to do to make change. Right, and I think people are never gonna go to that extreme to change their body because those changes are too extreme.

We can make gradual changes. And once you become efficient with the change you make, then you can put that into your golf swing. But it takes time. Things that are aggressive, things that happen too quick, you know, not great for golf. Yeah. Two of the guys you work with, Dustin Johnson and Brooks Keppka, have very different body types, different golf swings, different builds, things like that.

I'm wondering how you would describe how and why that is, does Brooks come to you and say, I want this, does Dustin come to you and say, I want this, and how you would describe why we see that body type work for Brooks, that body type work for DJ, that body type work for DJ, and how that all works with what you do. Well, you know, here's the thing, I don't work with Brooks anymore, but I did for a long time,

and I know that they both have had success with what they think is best for them, and as a team, you get with your player, and you create an opportunity to build a program. as a team, you get with your player, and you create an opportunity to build a program. I think very unfortunately, the answer to your question is you don't have a lot of choice which body type you have to be interested in, right? Like I'm still hoping for Ectoborph, I'd like to grow six more inches

and have much longer limbs, I didn't get there. So I know a body type I have, and I have to work within the ability to understand how to use muscles that are shorter versus longer. You know, my torso is longer than my legs and I think you have to be able to understand when you have a certain body type what does and what doesn't work for you because what works for dust and does not necessarily work for somebody like Brooks. You can't change your body type, but what you can do is learn and use your body type

to its best ability to be as mostly efficient as you can with what you're choosing to do. Can't grow longer limbs anymore, right? Like once you've, once you are who you are, you've got to manage what to do with that. So let's just let people know straight out of the gate. Like they're not a lot of dust and Johnson's out there because you didn't grow like he did. Like, he has a very unique body and the ability is really I think his ease and his effortless for through certain things that people that might have a different body type. It's harder for them to accomplish some of the things he does. And I hear a lot about, you know, strength, fitness, all this stuff can help prevent injuries.

Why is that? Somebody that may not understand that. Why would you describe how and why does fitness help prevent you from getting hurt? Yeah, great question. I think the opportunity for you to understand strengthening your body is not just good for you to not get hurt golf,

it's not to get hurt life. And I think what we do is we give the body the opportunity to activate muscles which protect certain things in your body. Like activation is a key, mobility is a key, flexibility is a key. Think about sometimes when you've been sitting on a plane for a really long time, or a chair for a really long time,

those muscles get shorter and tighter. And you think about what happens is when you stand up too quick or you go to lengthen something that might be in a state of contraction. So you have to be able to understand in life, what are you trying to do? What are your goals? Anything for people to protect their bodies

and give themselves an opportunity for longevity and and have an opportunity to live healthy and move better, just be able to move better. Like those are the things that I think about that are benefits of just general wellness. Like I want to be able to move better. So we always say before you become sport specific, you have to be species specific. So as a human being, just literally reaching up and extending your arm, if your arm is not capable of doing something past a certain range of motion, you know, you might feel like that catcher. You might like be in a position where I've been sitting here in this position, talking

here, now I want to stand up, you know, I think that to give your body the opportunity to support movement is a really important thing. Just basic ground activation on a mat. Like doing things that are just very easy bridges and opportunity to create range of motion and doing a routine that you would be able to stretch on a daily basis.

Those are great key points to be able to just move better. And I don't think anybody, I don't think a lot of people in the world do that. Just wake up, you're tight, you're tight, you take a shower, you hope that that helps and off you go. I think the opportunity to take a few minutes every day of your life and before you get started is to create a routine that has benefit, create some lengthening, some mobility, some ability to move that.

That's what I think too. It's the interconnectivity of everything kind of blows my mind. I recently have heard my left wrist and I went and saw a professional about it. And they were like working on my flexibility in my back and my posture. And they were saying this is all because of this, this, and this.

And I just would have never gotten there hurt my lower back. Yeah, your left quad is causing you problems. And that's why just how all that works. Yeah, well, when you think, think about what supports or the support system to all parts of your body, right? You're right. It is interconnected, right? So if something's not working, it is a result of probably something else, not assisting. So we have primary muscles, we have secondary muscles, we have subprime,

superficial, like it is very important to get the muscular system and the skeletal system to work symbiotically together. And that's not something that we pay attention to as we age in life, right? Like that's not something that we pay attention to as we age in life. Right? Like that's a big, big game changer for people. 100% last question. I'll let you get out of here. I'm curious and you don't have the name names on this one. But I'm wondering if you, if it sticks out to you, if you watch golf on TV or from being out on the road or whatnot, if it sticks out in your mind of players that have fallen behind on the, on the either taking, taking care of the physical body or the right stretches or whatever they should be doing to maintain their

golf fitness. Does it ever stick out to you, either on TV or in person to say like, you know, that's a person that I can tell is not taking care of enough care of their body. Yeah, but that's, because for me, you know, I'm there in it every day and I get to see it. And I've watched players that have gotten out of shape versus players that are in better shape and I've gone and I've watched players go through these cycles of being in shape and out of shape and they just play better when their bodies have less mass. So to speak, right, so if somebody gained 20 or 30 pounds over a course of years, you watch these guys research themselves

and you see such a great change. Like I watch Lee Westwood change his body completely. Lee is somebody that sticks out in my mind and I always compliment him because he made such a great change in that when his body was really out of shape to when he got into great shape. And I saw like this huge change in his game.

Scott McCarran was another guy that I watched get into. It's just super great shape. And as he started playing the Champions Tour, I just saw just a different body type. And when I see these guys make great changes, I've also noticed a change in their game. I've noticed a change in their ability to score better, to be more consistent, top of the leaderboard

more often, you see them win more frequently, like their performance is just enhanced. There's just a couple guys right there that I've seen make a huge change. Like, you know, I just watch people that maybe players that are not and have not had the ability to understand what that change means. And then when they slowly do it because it's their choice, not somebody pushing them, you see the greatest success. So I say two things. Pay attention to this podcast. You ask great questions by this book,

because we love it, selfless, blogging the banner. Bobby and I just finished hang the banner. If you listen on the podcast feed, it's called hang the banner, yeah. I mean, just an unbelievable world of information that what happens at the highest level and then anecdotal and then science at a very unique intersection like you

said it's all connected. Colby and I are proud of it greatest players in the world, some of the greatest players in the world we've had the privilege of being in this book that I've done this program. I think whether you don't read our book ever make an investment in an opportunity to figure out what makes you move better, feel better and play better. Yeah, you said it really well in the beginning to have just make a realistic expectation too, right? You have to, how do you make it work with a normal everyday life that, you know, you know, you're getting out maybe once a week into play golf. But like I said earlier, I think it can help benefit other ways of life as well, help you form better habits and control. Yeah, I think if we end in this segment

with anything that people could take away from your show today, it isn't really about what I think or what you think. It's the opportunity for you and I to have had a conversation on topics that help your listeners, which ultimately are probably players. And the biggest thing in life is if we don't set realistic expectations, like I see people

get angry on a golf course, they're throwing clubs, like it's just ridiculous because at the end of the day, you've put no time into developing a game that requires huge amount of skill and it requires huge amount of opportunity for bodybeal to move well. So set a realistic expectation and gradually work yourself into something that makes sense. I think that's extremely well said. I wonder why I can't play. You know, I feel great one day, I feel horrible the next day. It's like, well, there's nothing consistent about what you did between the two days.

Why would you feel as good the next day? So that's really well said. Joy, thank you very much for your time. Greatly appreciate it. And I love to do this again sometime. This was great learning for me. I'm sure listeners will enjoy it as well. Yeah thanks so much for having me on the show. It's always great to be able to share information with people because it's opportunity and I hope everybody enjoyed it as much as I did today. Thanks for having me. Cheers thanks. I'm going to be the right club today. Yes!

That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different.