No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 587: Catriona Matthew

Episode Date: August 1, 2022

Ahead of the AIG Women's Open at Muirfield we're pleased to be joined by Catriona Matthew. Catriona lives nearby in North Berwick and won the Women's Open in 2009.  In addition to some great insight on the significance of the upcoming tournament we visited with Catriona about her OBE honor, competing in the Solheim cup as a player and captain, and some of the other memorable moments from her career.  If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXTSTEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 1-877-770-STOP (7867) (LA), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA/MI/NJ/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. N/A in OR, NH, or NY. Risk free bet paid out in the form of non-withdrawable free bet token, max. $1,000. Min. $5 deposit. New customers only. Eligibility restrictions apply. See draftkings.com/sportsbook for full terms and conditions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Langa podcast. Sully here, we are still off filming season 8 of Taurus sauce at an undisclosed location. Alright, it's getting avial, we've given that away through various mediums along the way.

We are not watching golf this week. Do not have a recap tonight. I'm going to be doing a recap tomorrow on Monday with a guest talking about live bedmenster. I'm hoping Tony Fina pulls it out. As of right now, I don't know what the final result is of the rocket mortgage, but we will be doing a recap live this week. But I wanted to go ahead and publish this episode. This interview with Katrina Matthew recorded this a couple weeks ago, previewing the AIG women's open at Mirafield this coming week. We gained a lot of details as to why she's a great person to talk to about all of this. And we're very excited for this championship coming up.

Big Reigns going to be there actually over the weekend. So we're very excited about that. We'll have a full debrief on that on next week's pod. You can get in on the hottest sports action for your shot at cold hard cash with draft king sports book. You can bet on your favorite sports all summer long and gear up for football season. Right now new customers can get a risk free bet up to $1,000. Just make your first bet up to 1000.

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delay, here is Katrina Matthew. So you've grown up in North Barrett, a stone throw away from your field. Did you ever think we'd be talking about an AIG women's open at Mirfield? No, no, growing up, never thought that. I mean, obviously, with the history, I've watched a lot of men's opens there, but never really imagined, obviously, at the time it was an all-male club, never thought we'd be playing a AIG women's open there. So it's fantastic.

I must say I'm really looking forward to playing at Mirfield. Can you give our listeners just a bit of a history lesson in terms of what played out at Mirfield over the last decade and kind of a policy there that has long been changed at so many other places in Scotland that they dragged their feet to change and how that has affected the image of Scottish golf maybe around the world?

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously, golf started here in Scotland and it had as many traditions and when golf started 150, 200 years ago, it was male only and there were a lot of male only golf clubs here. And the honorable company of Enberg-Alphors who play at Mirfield happens to be one of them. But I think you've seen that in the last, as you say, 10 or 15 years, all these courses

are moving with the times and you know letting ladies in to be members and and Mirfield was one of them so you know obviously it's I think they've got you know quite a few lady members now one of my friends is actually members she takes me on quite often which is good but yeah I mean I think and now to have the women's open there is just you know it's just kind of the icing on the cake I think for them it shows the world now really how they've changed and how they're progressing, which is great to see. Oh, I think it, just from American perspective, that's always been the reputation of that place

is like what it's known for. And I just think it almost overshadows what is a tremendous golf course and a deservingly overshadows because it was such a bizarre policy. But what is your, you know, tell us about the golf course. It's been nine years since we've seen it on the men's side on television. I'm guessing some listeners will need a little bit of refresher

of what it's like and what makes it so special. Yeah, I mean, I think I would say I've been lucky enough to play most of the links courses in the open route. I think some judges is the only one I haven't. You know, Mirfield is probably up there as one of the best. It's not a typical links course and that you don't really see the sea from it, but it's, and you know, the course,

it moves in all sorts of different directions. All the holes go, I mean North Berk where I grew up is, you know, eight out one across and nine back in a very traditional links. But Muirfield in that respect kind of goes round in little circles, which in a way makes it very tricky because in the wind, you know,

the wind's always coming from a different direction. You get a lot of cross wins. You know, downwind and so on. So it's pretty good. It's different. I think it's just, I think the more I play, the par threes are super tricky. I think if anyone has placed par threes in level card, they're really happy. Can you tell us a little bit about how the AIG women's open has progressed and the golf courses that we see it going to and not only You know the past several years have gone to you know car newsd and trun and World live them where you won in 2009 as well, but looking at Walton Heath old course real port call into the future I talk to a lot and talking to a lot of the women that play on the LPJ tour

They are they always get super excited to play at courses that men's majors have been held on. Can you, can you relate to that and kind of give us an idea as to why that is so important and how you see that playing out? I mean, absolutely. I mean, I think as you say in the last 15 years, perhaps on all these open-rooted courses. And I think for non-British players, I think that's the courses, you know, as golfers, they've watched the men's open and they've seen all these courses over the years and television, they've seen Sebi win, Watson win, Faldon, all these people on all these different golf courses. So I think you always want to, it's great to go to a golf course

that you've seen on TV and know the history about. And you know, you've all got everyone watches the men's open, see who wins it, you know, the assistant Andrews just the other day. I think for the ladies, it's just great to come to all these two golf courses. What's the vibe like been like around town, around North Barric for this championship coming this direction? Yeah, it's been busy. You know, we've obviously had the men's Scottish open at the Rene Sons, which is just

along here and then all the signs are up and they're all up for the Mirfield one, it's the AIG Women's Open at Mirfield. So there's a real buzz about the place. You know in the summer at this little area we're kind of, we've got so many golf courses, we're just inundated with the visitors, mostly Americans, I must say, coming over to play them. So there's just every summer there's always a buzz, but extra special this year we're having the AIG Women's Open at Mirfield. plus two years of people having backed up trips that probably are all fallen in the uh in the same time period so i'm sure it's been yeah i'm sure it's tough to get tea times and of course he's there saying oh can you get me on the North Grandness it was not

quite that easy well it is probably an easy question to answer but what can we expect out of the golf course you know for the championship we're recording this fresh off watching the men's open at St Andrews baked out fast and firm Renee Sons right down the road from your field was the same for the men's Scottish is it safe to assume we're going to get a fast and firm one at your field unless we get a day loose of rain in the coming weeks? Absolutely. I mean, yeah, we were having a kind of mini heat wave over here at the moment, kind of baking in 30 degree heat,

which is completely unknown over here. So I think they're definitely gonna be firm and fast. Obviously, unless we get rain, which doesn't think the zone's gonna get in the forecast. So I think it's gonna be great test this year. It's gonna be a bit like some tendrils firm fast. The rough won't be a stick because we've not had the rain, but it's still gonna be that wispy kind of grass

that catches your club face and kind you know, kind of twisted over. So it's going to be a real challenge. I mean, I mean, like any links course, it's all going to depend the week on whether we get wind or not. If we get wind, it could be quite the test. Is there anything unique about Muirfield in terms of what you know about the course in terms of what kind of test it's going to be, right? We watched it, you know, again, coming off the men's open, we watched, you know, the really long

game was really important and then lag-putting and feel around the greens with wedges. It wasn't so much of a mid-iron test. It wasn't, you know, anything that sticks out as a highlight skill to say, you're feeling in particular, it's going to test your blah, blah, blah. What would your answer be to that? I think near field is going to be, it's going to be a test of the tee. If you can keep it on the fairway, you know, give yourself a shot in the green. They're not, as you say, it's going to be playing for him in fast. So it's not going to play particularly long. So I think if you drive it well and then have that imagination around the green where you can, you know, maybe put from 20 yards of chips.

So I think short game and driving will be the two keys. I think as you say, the course is going to play pretty short. So the two things. I think, as you say, the course is going to play pretty short. So the two things, I would say. You won the 2009 Women's British Open at, I don't remember what it was called at that time. At Royal Lotha been St. Anne's. What was, what, tell people, what was unique about the timing of that win?

Well, that win was 11 weeks after I just gave birth to Sophie, our second daughter. So I was only my second tournament back. I played in every in every week before. This is a little warm up. So I mean, to be honest, I went in that week with very low expectations, which I think probably helped me, because I didn't put any pressure on myself.

And probably wasn't until the Saturday night that I suddenly started getting nervous and came out of my arm, I actually wouldn't this thing. And then I was fortunate actually coming up 18. I had a three shot lead. So if anyone's played Lidham, it's a pretty treacherous T-shirt with all the gorse right and lots of bunkers.

So once I hit the fairway, I knew I'd won it. So it was a really nice walk up there. The husband's on the bag. Katrina, you should hear the excuses I come up with for why I can't play great golf. And it would, you would laugh so hard compared to winning a major championship 11 weeks after giving birth.

I literally can't understand it. Yeah. I mean, at the time you don't even think about it. It's more now when you look back, you think, God, I wonder if I did that. I think at the time you're just, I was probably in a kind of haze, probably so exhausted just getting on with it, getting on the course. Sophie had a bit of a colleague, so she cried a lot. So probably a bit of relief getting on the golf course.

I don't think I think you may have a record for the shortest marked putt that we'll ever see in major championship history because you lagged it up to about two inches, if I may say, but you don't want to put out and before your playing partners have put it out, but I got a good laugh. I don't see any put a coin down as close to the hole as you did. I think I had about six parts. I really didn't need to take it. I think I was playing with Christina Kim. So it was always nice to, you know, to let them finish. What is, you know, I watch a lot of golf and, you know, we, we, you know, play a fair amount of

golf and we have our own pressures that we put ourselves. Every golfer has a pressure they put on himself to achieve something. And when you're doing it at the highest level of the professional game, what is the pressure? Like what is it like trying to perform under pressure with, you know, when you get to the 18th hole with a three shot lead, that's different than with four holes to go. This is still very much in question. I can't play around golf without, you know, a competitive round without picturing myself holding the trophy without skipping way past all the stuff you're not you're definitely not supposed to do but you've done it before. What what was your mind like at that time? What is it like competing in

the highest level? I mean to be honest I think your mind does try to skip forward and you you kind of can imagine and then you try and say no no don't think about that just think about the next shot. I think when you're up there kind of vying to win a tournament, you're playing well, so you're not really quite as concerned about hitting good shots or that. I think it's more just trying to keep in the moment, you know, kind of just try. For me, when I get nervous, I tend to get fast, so all I'm just telling myself is, you know, keep it smooth, and that's really all. It's trying keep it simple. It's I suppose as a goal for I always seem to play my best when I'm thinking about the least. So I try not think about trying not think about anything

to be honest and that to usually playing the best. It's when you start thinking about your swing, thinking about where you should hit it, thinking about what could go wrong. That's when things happen to go wrong. And I'm only adding this in here for the listeners sake. I mean, nothing with this commentary, but you are 52 years old. And you are still competitive in this, in this, you've been competitive in this event for, I mean, you had a T5 in 2016. You got, you were competitive again in 2018, if you will. And so what, what do you owe that to? What, you know, how, kind of get the listeners an idea of where you are in your golf career and how you determine when, you know, your most competitive times are going to be? Well, now, right, I mean, I've been saying playing a whole lot and playing, you know, I'll

play a few events on the European, the ladies European tour. Obviously, going to play in the AIG room and open with it being in your field and myself just living along the road from there. I suppose my main focus this year probably is the senior US open. As my kids would be brutally honest and say that's when you've got a chance of winning. But I think, I mean, I take hope from what I remember watching Wattson at Tomprey. I think a link score is one where you don't need to overpower it. It's not length.

Because I mean, obviously nowadays my swing speed's not as fast and not as strong as some of these younger players. So I'm not hitting it as far. I think a links course, especially with going up on links courses, it's a lot of imagination and playing kind of different shots. So I think of any of the golf courses every play nowadays, the links courses,

one I've got a chance on if I play well. Yep, now that makes a lot of sense. And it also couldn't help but note that you won the women's Scottish open twice at Archer Field. But does that feel, does that feel a little bit unfair to win twice at a course that you know, it looks like you could walk to from where you live? I feel like that feels a little bit. I don't think that's unfair because I was in the summer.

It's harder to win at home. It could be true. You grew up in North Barrett as I understand it extremely close to the golf course, right? And that is the golf course you grew up playing. Did you have any idea that you were playing on one of the world's greatest golf courses? No, you don't. I mean, it was funny. I was just at St. Andrews recently receiving an honorary graduate and you know, it was when they were all talking about when they first came to St. Andrews. But I think when you grow up in these courses, you don't realize kind of how iconic and how good they are

until I remember saying it wasn't until I started traveling and you kind of think, oh, everyone else wants to come here. But when it's like anything, when it's on your doorstep, you kind of do take it for granted. But I think now, you know, I've traveled and been more places, seen other golf courses. And I probably fully appreciate how great these golf courses are that I grew up on. What's it?

What's the tourism industry been like in your part of the world? As you've seen it unfold over the course of your life, have you seen a massive expansion? Is it mostly Americans that end up coming over? Because I feel like it was, I don't know when that time really started. Maybe you may be able to provide some insight in that. I mean, it has definitely got more. But I do not remember as a youngster growing up, I would caddy on the course, you know, in the summer holidays, and it was for Americans then, but they're definitely more now. And I think obviously after COVID people are traveling now. So I'd say, you know, definitely 90% of the chairs here playing are American. And I'd say, you know, definitely 90% of the jurors here are playing our American.

And I would say in the last probably 40 years, it is increasing every year. What kind of an impact does that have on North Barrett gets a town, let's say, or just the entire region? I'm wondering if you could kind of give people an idea. Yeah, it gives a huge buzz. I mean, I think North Barrett, we've got like, I think it's 14 golf courses within five miles.

So, you know, people can come over and they can play, you know, North Berwick and Galen, Nearfield, Calspindee, Dombard and A-Songs, Archie Field. You've got a whole host, you could spend two weeks here and play different course every day. So, the town's just fill up. And there's not that many, for people who don't know the area, it's just small little times. I mean, we're half an hour from Edinburgh, but there's really not many hotels down here.

So there's lots of Airbnb's and small hotels and the place is just packed. You walk along the high street and as locals, you would just not drive along now, because you never get parking spot. So you just wander along and it's just filled with golfers. It's just fun. That's a golfers fun, actually, to see. You can see people walking along the street with their golf clubs and they're back. I love that.

That's why I always loved about saying answers too. Good, but for listeners who haven't been here in North Berks, I always think like a mini centandries. It's like a centandries without the university. You know, but the golf course comes right into the middle of the town. So it's really is the future of the town. It's got a lot of similar features to those first and 18th, they're kind of parallel out there with a shared fairway and 18th, it's the drivable four,

kind of back into the little town and then you change directions after one and you get a different wind direction and you get that whole, it's a lot of, a lot of similar. Yeah, there's not a similar thing, yeah, without a doubt. More little walls and things you have to pitch over. There are not just similarities, yeah, with that, right, right. There are little walls and things you have to pitch over. Exactly. I watched your round with radar. Oh, gosh, it just, I regret a lot, not, I'm not going to be at the AIDG with it's open. I didn't go to the, the men's open.

I regretting not spending my summer in Scotland because it looks like it just the best links conditions you could possibly have right now. And it really do this year, this summer, hopefully we get no rings. We really do have great conditions. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Woop, the personalized digital fitness and health coach and official fitness wearable, the PGA and LPGA tours. If you don't know, the all new four dot O is smaller, smarter and design with biometric tracking, including skin temperature, blood, oxygen, and more.

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And right now, Woop is offering 15% off when you use code NLU15 at checkout. Go to whoop.com, whop.com, enter NLU15 at checkout to save 15% back to the pod. Growing up on a Lings golf course like that, I'm curious what your transition into professional golf was like, whether or not there was different skills you needed to learn. I know you competed in a lot of different golf courses,

you know, I'm sure as a junior and things like that. But in my mind, I think like, there's links golf and there's everything else. It's a totally different style of golf and I'm just wondering if you needed to learn about different shots or different skills you needed to really compete at the highest level. Yeah, I mean, I think obviously I spent my basically my whole career playing on the LPJ when I turned pro and went to school my first couple of months of turning throw, I managed to get my card and, and that was me, but I think, um, over and state, you definitely learned to hit it higher. I mean, I come back now and play with friends and, you know, they hit it like, probably 10 feet above the ground and I can

I saw my drives. I'm gradually now starting to learn to hit lower again, but I think that's something you just, you just adapt when you go out for effort to end over there, you just realize you have to start as more the games more through the air. So it's just a different type of game and I think your your game naturally adapts to that over the years. I've always said that that's an extremely underrated skill of professional golfers or think some it's not talked about enough is the fact that you have to pick up your talent, put it on a plane, pack it, have your body feeling right and get used to a new golf course in a week's time.

And a few days time really to get going by, by Thursday and. The jet lag can be tough. The worst thing professional golf is in travel. Most people who don't play professional golf say it's the best thing, but it's probably it is the worst thing. I tell people that I, we went to Abu Dhabi in 2018 and I think it took me like two and a half weeks to recover from that trip. I was like, how do these how do these people compete?

Wait a week after these international flights. I'm also wondering, I meant to ask this earlier, but you competed in the 2014 US women's Open at Pinehurst, which was a back to back event right after the men's tournament. And the more I go, I went to the KPMG women's open this year and our women's PGA, excuse me. And I saw all the infrastructure and everything that has to go into a week's of worth of tournaments. And it just kind of blew my mind that these organizations don't try to double up events

more frequently. It would seem like a great way to streamline things and be great for, you know for different regions. I'm wondering if you viewed that week as a success and wondering why in your mind that we don't see that more often in professional golf? Yeah, I thought that wasn't success. I think for an event like that, it probably takes a certain type of golf course. That golf course was the perfect setup for it. There weren't that many divots. If you were on a more in-land or kind of setup for it. There weren't that many divots. You know, if you were on a more an inland, or kind of a softer fairies wherever you might get more divots and be tougher in the landings zones and different things.

But, you know, the Scottish Open had that for two, three years when the men and ladies are the same sponsor and they played at the same golf course. But the, I think the issue then over here is that, you know, the members don't want to give up their courses for that long, which is the, is the difficult thing. I think that's probably why you don't see it more often, to be honest, because I think it's a great idea. I mean, on the European tour we have the odd, they just did the Henry Kenanaka, the Scandinavian mix

for the both played at the same time, the same purse, which was great. I think having these kind of new tournaments, one of two years, great fun. Well, that's, yeah, that we've been yelling for that, and I'm wondering if you have any insight at all into how we might be able to see that, an LPGA and PGA tour, crossover event of some kind. But I think that would be great to see. And my favorite event when I was on tour, one of my favorite events was probably the JC-28 mixed team one that they had, and that was an an industry usually at the end of the year. That was a great fun event for the men and ladies played

together. So I think hopefully the PJ two and the LPJ can get together. I think that would be, especially if the top players from both of yours play, I think that would be fascinating. Watch. Was it the Wendy's, the 3M or what was the three-tour challenge? There was Wendy's teacher. I never played in that one, but they had this feature.

That was the LPJ, the PJ, and the Champions Tour. That's exactly right. Yeah, that was actually my backyard. I grew up in Dublin, Ohio, and that was at that course. But yeah, it just seems like all the flux going on in the world's a professional golf. It seems like kind of more collaboration would make a lot more sense.

And... Oh, definitely. I think 72 whole events can get a, I mean, perhaps a little monotonous every week of the year. So I think to have the odd kind of slightly different formats, you know, just kind of spices up and keeps it interesting for the viewers. And I think even, you know, the, I'm'm gonna forget which Australian championship it was that had the simultaneous. The Vic open. That was great fun as well. Yeah, on television, it made all the sense in the world to have a men's and women's championship going on on the same golf course, separate championships, but at the same time.

It was the final groups where a women's group and then a men's group. A women's group and then a men's group. And it was, you're watching two tournaments at were a women's group and then a men's group, a women's group and then a men's group. And it was, it just, you're watching two tournaments at once. And it made all the sense in the world. And I haven't seen anyone try to copy that, so to say. I think they're doing that again this year with the, you know, really not actually. Awesome. They're doing on the same golf course, you know, ultimate t times. So, you know, I think

these kind of ideas are great. I remember did a six-hole tournament, I was playing at Thomas Bjorn, there was a super six-use, it's just the odd kind of different thing, I think just keeps people's interest and I think the more the men and women can play together, I think is great for golf. Because the most golf clubs, they're all mixed, so the men and women can play together.

Exactly. What is it like having your husband as a caddy? You don't see that, if I may say, you don't see that too often on the LPGA tour. And I actually see more significant others cadding for other players on tour that are not their wives or girlfriends. I'm wondering how that's worked for you guys.

I mean, for us, we were fortunate. We're, for 99% of the time, it was great. I mean, like, it doesn't matter who you tap, cadding for you. The arguments are probably a little more ferocious when it's your husband, but I was fortunate enough I played. I didn't really have any real what you'd call slump. So I played, I think if you had been going through a slump and playing badly, it would have been pretty tough, but you know, I was quite fortunate I played pretty well throughout most of the time, which made it enjoyable.

And I think otherwise, you know, you'd never really have seen each other. I mean, he did at one point try cadding for, for, you know, a different player, but, but that's tough as well, because I mean, his heart's really wanting me to do well. So what if you're kind of in a playoff together? It's not really that fair and the other players. So, it worked for us. I think if you don't try it, you don't know. We were just fortunate. That's funny. I was waiting with a battle in Saxon at the KPMG this year, and they're waiting on teatimes, and they were just like, all right, please say we're in the same way.

Please say, and I hadn't thought of, is her boyfriend, Katty, I forget who he Katty's for now, but they just want to be in the same wave, so they're on the same sleeping schedules like that. I would have never thought of that. Well, from the listeners, say, here, where does your your soul hype cup story start?

Go back in time and say, this is when it started for me and what that experience was like. Well, I suppose it first started back in 1992 when it was at Dalma Hoi. I think I was, I don't know how old there would have been then, maybe 17 or 18. And I went and watched. And that was a miraculous victory from Europe. No one

ever expected them to win that and then, when we hold it six years later, I made my debut at Mirafield Village, your neck roots. I just loved it from that first time I played in it. I've always loved team competition in golf. I really did enjoy it. They were definitely the highlights every two years of my career. After I played in the first one, that was my career was to every after I played in the first one that was my goal was to make that team two years time. So you're a rookie in 1998, you know, do they do they ease you in? Do they try to pair you with someone that's not going to get a lot of attention or who do you end up getting paired with in your first soul? I'm cut. Well, I'm getting paired with Anika and hit the first tee shot so I don't know if that was

easing me in. That's where I was going with that. I'm a pretty good partner to have. They were very quite often actually over the years. So you know, you couldn't ask for a better partner. Take me to 1998. What is Anika's standing in the game and what's it like for you to have her as a partner? Is it like playing with Tiger Woods on the men's side? Yeah, I Yeah, I think 98, and it probably just kind of will not up and coming. You should probably hit you on a US Open by that. I think she was probably verging on being one of the best players in the world, if not the best at that point.

So yeah, I mean, we had grown up. We played amateur golf together, so I'm saying you were pretty well. So you know, felt fairly comfortable playing with her. But you know, a dream partner, I've just been on the fairway, she did it closer. If I could put it on the green, she'd told the pot. So, you know, I just needed to keep it in play, dunk it down and dunk it on the green, and then off we went.

Well, you played a lot with her, and what made in your right, she had won two US women's up at that point, and then she wins eight majors after that. So you're right in that regard. This is an actor. You must have really inspired her, and then she wins eight majors after that. So you're right in that regard. This is an actor. You must have really inspired her.

But what does speak to her greatness and her ability? For me, it was watching as a kid. I remember just the marksman iron play, just incredible accuracy with irons. But what were you in all of? And if you could steal a skill of Anika's, what would that have been? It would have been her shot shape,

I think, I think she just hit it dead straight. She could go at anything, because there was very little movement left or right. Her, from a hundred yards in, I thought she was great. She was probably, and she'd probably say herself, not the greatest putter. I think if she putt of light Lorraine, she really wouldn't have ever been beaten.

But, you know, she just made very few mistakes. And like I say, it was her short shapes. She just hit it dead straight and you can, you can basically aim anywhere if you hit it, you know, you're going to hit it straight every time. I'm trying to think of a way to ask this question or kind of bring this around, but I'm just kind of struck by you saying when you started when you're 11 years old, you're going to the Soulheim Cup. And that kind of influence that it had on you, and it culminates in you being a two time Soulhyme Cup captain, right?

In terms of the influence that's right in front of you develops this whole thing. And I'm looking at the current state of what's going on in the men's world, and what could be potentially going on in the women's world of golf into the future. And I just want to pause and reflect on that for a moment to say, how much of,

you know, I don't want to say we could be looking at a lost generation here, but if the, if the, if the current structure of ProGolf changes a lot, then the downstream effects of that are things we can't really even know. And I was thinking about that watching some of the Soulheim Cup highlights and watching you get lifted up on the putting green after Suzanne Patterson, hold the putt in 2019 and you have a winning captain seat. I see the joy on your face. It was kind of comparing that to all the, I'll just say greed that's going on in the world of golf. I don't really know if I have a question related to that, but it struck me. Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I mean, it's obviously an interesting watch, you know, watch this next kind of six months to a year and at the moment

meant professional golf just to see where it goes. I mean I think all parties are you probably think you're going to have to sit down and try and talk and sort something out but you know I think you're always going to have the majors. You're always going to have the rider cut the solving cut. I think things will hopefully come down and the the law come to some sort of agreement. Whatever that turns out to be. Well it's's funny, you know, where I was kind of getting that with that is how much of your professional career in life

you've dedicated to this team event, right? It's easy to kind of, you know, read it on Wikipedia, but you played it in 98 in 2003, in 2005, 2007, 2009, 2011. 2013, 2015, 2017, and then four straight years of, I mean, two, two, uh, soulheim cups of captaincy, but there's years and years that have dedicated that, that are, again, that's kind of why I got into golf. That's what I appreciate about golf. I mean, to me, that as a, you know, when we're professional golf, or that is, that is the pinnacle event that you want to play. And if you're European or American, think that's still the same the players out there that once they've played it once you know

you always just want to play in it and a lot of them now are junior solving cupers so they've got that kind of taste for it as a junior isn't an amateur so you know then they get to stay on watch the solving cup and they see what it's all about so I think that kind of drive and passion that the players have for getting into these team events is there and is still going to be there in the future. And hopefully it's just going to keep growing. I mean, it grew. It's grown so much from 98 to 2021 for my captain's in Brunez. You know, you barely recognize the event. I mean, I'm so big. Thank you to the Salvin family for having the vision to start it in the first place.

Yep. No, I think that was a big takeaway I had too. It was just, man, that was a really good idea. And how was that not there prior to it actually covered to fruition. But as you start turning towards thinking about captaincy in 2019, I'm wondering, you know, you've played for a lot of different captains as a soul. I'm a team member. I wonder what you kind of drew back on, where your instincts went in terms of,

here's what I want to be like. This is what I want to be like. this is what I want to be like, this is the keys, this is what I need to do to bring this team together in some way. Did you feel like you had the formula laid out in front of you when you became captain? I think, I suppose as a captain,

you can't really change who you are, you can't change your personality. I suppose I had the experience I played in nine, under probably, I don't know know five or six different captains You know, and I qualified I got picked I kind of got into the team in all sorts of different ways So I had that experience and I think I just learned over the years things I liked captains things that they did I liked and you know things that happened in the weeks I didn't like and I just tried to Eliminate the things I didn't like when I was playing, you know, kind of reinforced the things I did

like. So I think a lot of it was really just communication. I mean, as a player, you just want to know what's going on. They want to know whether they're playing when they're playing, who they're playing with. So I just tried to be kind of put myself as a player and be as upfront as possible, you know, and and try and give them, you know, plenty of warning, I think it seems kind of strange, but the more time you can have to mentally prepare, I'm going to be playing for some's with. So if you've got, if you're just told that the night before, it's nice to know that maybe one or two days out and you can both mentally prepare for how you're going to play the golf

course. That was just my approach. It was really communication, get to know the players and try and be up front and tell them what, as much as I could about what I was thinking. And for a long time for team golf events, I've I've not appreciated what goes into team golf. And it was honestly being at the Inverness that kind of it kind of clicked for me a little bit in terms of it looked like this is my opinion. I'm not putting words in your mouth. Look at the US team was there to play golf and The European team was there to play team golf and it didn't

If the some of your players looked like they didn't care what they looked like they didn't care how cool they looked They did they were just they sold out for their team. They were there to go cheer on players They didn't care if they look silly cheering or whatever it was it was just like I'm gonna give every effort I have for my team to my team, I owe it to my team rather than putting pressure on my golf, it's just like I wanna be the best teammate I could possibly be. And it just kinda clicked and I just didn't know if that is something you just acutely...

I was playing a team, you know, I tried to tell you, you know, you're one of two top players aren't gonna win it for you. There's whatever 24 points. You need everyone in the team to play well. So the more experienced players have to make the rookies feel comfortable. They have to gel and get on. There's no point. You need all, you need at least 11 if not you're 12 players to all play well and contribute. So that was kind of our key we wanted every player to try and contribute at least half a point because one or two players playing really well, I'm going to win it. It's a team event, you need the whole team to play well.

So I think it was kind of trying to get that ethos into the team, which, to be fair, wasn't very difficult. So they were all there supporting each other and trying to help each other and trying to make the newer players feel more comfortable and you know telling what to expect. Yeah, I guess you know taking it to the maybe the fifth level it was just like it felt like that environment, that atmosphere is what allows you to play your best golf right instead of being so focused in on I want to win I want to win here's what I have to do to win kind of the feeling that you can kind of you know spread that pressure out across the team. I don't know. It just kind of clicked. Yeah. As I said, no one remembers if,

well, because people do remember Leon, I played really well, but at the end of the day, 20 years ago, it's going to remember Leon, I won four and a half points. I'll just remember here at one. So an individual record in these team of things is slightly irrelevant, really. It's all getting that 14 and a half points. That's all you need to do. It doesn't matter who get the points. Well, and it's got to be interesting. You know, as you're the one making decisions on who's going out and what pairings, how easy is it or how challenging is it to identify who your hot hand is, right? It does not mean it is going to be the number one ranked player on your team when that week starts. Is it something you kind of have a hint at on Wednesday or is it first session you see? All right, that person's not sitting until they, you know, fall off the map or whatever. Let me say you see that in the probably two or three weeks leading up to the tournament.

I mean, I've never been a, probably because I wasn't the greatest practice round player. I've never been a great one and, you know, studying for him in practice rounds because some people play well and some people don't. So I really looked at the forum running into the two or three weeks before and that would kind of formulate the pairings for the first day and then and then you get an idea of how people are playing. The Mel Reed, Leonna pairing, what that uh we've talked to Mel and Leonna on this podcast about it this year but how did that come about and you know is that something you identified or uh just kind of worked out that way. I mean a couple of the other pairings, Anna Matilda were gonna play together,

Georgia and Selene, they'd played so well at Glen Eagles, I was gonna put them together again. And then I think it was Charlie and Emily. And just the way it worked out, Leona was playing great golf that year, Mel was such a passion for the Solheim Cup. You know, I just thought that could be a really good pairing. When I told them they're maybe going to be playing together, they didn't perhaps see

that being quite such a good pairing. But I told just said to them go out there, I'm sure neither of them will be as awful as each other. I think you might be. And they ended up getting on great together. So I think their perception of each other was vastly different from what the person was actually like. Well, then they paired up this past week at the, did I see that right? You must have been on this up there. Yeah. Yeah.

That was at the dial. That's right. But what two wins, two successful captencies, did you know in 2021 that you were not going to be a captain going forward? Is that a decision? Something that was offered to you is a decision you make. two successful cappances. Did you know in 2021 that you were not going to be a captain going forward? Is that a decision, you know, something that was offered to you? Is that decision you make? What is, uh, what goes it? I knew basically when I two con twenty one just after I, the gun eagles, I knew I was never going to do it. And I, I, that was going to be it regardless,

when or lose. Um, I think it's just one of these things that's, it's such an honor to be, you know, the captain that it was someone else's turn. There's always another, you know, player coming up and it's just kind of their turn and it just worked out. Suzanne was in the perfect place in her kind of career that just was the natural progression. And I think it just really being greedy to go on and try and do it three times. That makes sense. Any chance of assistant captaincy for you? I don't know if the captain, assistant captains are announced yet or if I'm... No, I'm not going to be this. Time to move on from that. What can you give people an idea of what kind of a time commitment it is to be a captain of an international team and what that timeline looks like on a year to year basis?

Yeah, I mean, I think when you're home captain, well, maybe from your study difference, I live probably only an hour and a half from Leningol. So being homecaptain was quite a commitment, you know, lots of media and promotion and different things. And then for Leningol, I was still playing on tours. So, you know, I watched the players and see the players when I was out playing for Inverness. I wasn't really playing, it was COVID. So I would travel out to, you know,

two or three tournaments during the year just to see all the players. So, you know, it's quite a commitment, but I loved it. So I mean, I'm hardly going to mumble about it. I enjoyed, enjoyed every bit of bag to, apart from probably having to pick the team. I've admittedly I've only covered women's golf since 2018 is when we really started covering it. And it seems to me, again, I'm starting on that timeline that there seems to be great momentum in terms of fan interest, television interest, sponsors, the AIG is, you know,

ponies up a lot of cash for the AIG women's open KPMG a lot for the women's PGA, USGA just doubled the purse for the, and it seems like the majors are racing to outspend each other and it feels like there's some real momentum and talking to the players, they feel that. I'm wondering if you can kind of get perspective on that as somebody whose career has spanned a longer time period than most

of the women we've had on this podcast. But kind of give us some perspective on the growth of the uh what's going on. Yeah, I would say probably in the last 10, 15 years, and you've really seen it grow women sports in general to be fair. And then I would say probably in the last five, if not two, three years, women's golf really has exploded in the in the purse as you say in the last five, if not two, three years, women's golf really has exploded in the in the purses, as you say in the majors, suddenly, you know, zooming up.

I think obviously women's sport and golf in general is really benefiting from the real equality drive that all companies are wanting to do. You know, they're wanting to do equal spending on men's and women, which is, you know, a fantastic opportunity for the women. And, you know, it's great to see, I think, women's golf. I mean, we've probably been a global tour for the last, probably, 15 years. So, you know, and so many of the companies coming in to golf sponsorship are global, that, you know, it's a natural fit for them that we, you know, they play all around the world. So, yeah, I mean, I think you're only going to see women's golf. I think go up

and up. I was just saying we're playing on great golf courses now. I'm obviously with the USGA, the RNA now running the AIG women's open. They're just going to keep going up and up and such. Well, and it's, you know, I look at how the LPGA and the ladies European tour have co-sanctioned events and how LPGA tour has weeks off and it almost it is a Better product in terms of the best golfers best women golfers get on the same golf course at the same time Way more frequently than they do on the men's side and it seems like there is there's something there in terms of Look if you want a sponsor an LPGA tournament You're gonna get these players like it may not be all the top 20, but you're going to get 18 of the top 20, something like that. And it seems like that, that is kind of the blueprint of how that it's going to continue

to grow is to say, like, we are a, you know, a collective group and we're going to market together. And this is how we're going to do it. Yeah, I mean, I would say both the LPG and the LAT, they've kind of come to their optimum number of tournaments they want to year. I mean, they don't want, you don't want players don't want 52 tournaments a year, the viewers don't want 52 tournaments a year. So as you say, if you can have, they've gone for, I suppose perhaps fewer than the men, but trying to, as you say, then they get better, better fields on the whole, because, you know, the players have natural weeks off. So all the top players play more often together, which is what people want to see. Get that rivalry going between the different players. Yeah, I'm wondering if you could tell our, let me preface this with our mostly American audience.

What the honor of an MBE and an OBE, first of all, what that means and what kind of an honor that is and what that experience has been like for you. Yeah, that's actually, it's a huge honor. You know, an MV is a member of the British Empire, which, you know, the Royal Family give out. And I was fortunate enough to get my MV, I think back in, I think 2010, after I won the women's British Open. So, you know, yeah, I mean, my husband and myself and my mom and dad came down. We kind of drove into Buckingham Palace and you know, it's just a fantastic experience and you know, you know, I think it was Princess Anne when I got my MV so she the winning captain for the soul hymen at Glen

Eagles and actually got that with COVID you know kind of got delayed a little bit and then that I'm getting at a Holy Root palace in Edinburgh, I just in January and it happened to be Princess Anne again. I don't think Queen really does any now. You see that it gives Princess Anne, Princess Charles and Princess Williams. So you never quite know who you're going to get. But you know, for obviously a British person, I remember the Commonwealth, it's a huge honor. So, you know, it's just a great thing for the whole family. How does the hierarchy work? You have it, you know, MBE, OBE, and then a CBE, and then I think a Nighthunter a day. Oh, he's sitting right here in our kitchen counter.

So here you go. This is what you get. Oh, look at that. A little pin donny. Look at that. Our, I mean, we know Dame Laura Davies. Are there other women in golf that have reached Dame Hood? As I can give this a little bit.

The lawyer is on the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was Nicholas and MB. So yeah, not many office. You must have needed three soul-hime cup, I was on the one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was on the close NB. So yeah, not many office. You must have needed three Soulhype Cup winning cap and seats to have gotten that.

I think Laura deserves her name here. There's one of few more tournaments in me. We got to play pool with Laura at your celebration. We got to sneak in your guys celebration at 2021. Soulhype Cup and we got to play pool. That was a, that was a great team room. I must say, you got how, if you were to estimate, we've, I asked Mel this to what, how many times did we are the champions play on repeat in that team room that night?

I think, I tried to think, yeah, that was, I, yeah, that certainly was played a lot, shall we say? I still got a lot. I still got a little hangover for whatever concoction was in the soul hype up that we had a little drink up. Last one we'll get you out of here. Tell us about what happened at the unique story that happened in the 2009 Aveon in your hotel. That was, as you said earlier, it was my first tune and back in my warm up for the 2009

Open It's Lidham, which I happened to win. And my husband and self had gone over and we'd left the kids at home and my mom and dad were meeting us at Lidham with them. So I think I was just enjoying having a rest in the peace. And I was, must have been about 10 at night, I was in bed. And at that point, the only point I get wife, I was out in my balcony. And then it sounded, to me, it sounded like it was raining, so I said, oh, you need to come in, it's raining, it comes in, it's not raining.

And then our kind of hotel was built into the hillsides, so it had a balcony, but the door was right in the back on the kind of, not on the ground level, I suppose. So we opened the door and it just flames everywhere. It wouldn't kind of building. So we kind of rushed in, back in, panicked, ran out without shoes on, the husband bowed his feet, and then there was no fire alarm jam, things were running around, building, shouting, fire, fire. And eventually I think we had Amy and her dad in the room next door to us, and by the time they woke up, they couldn't get out their door, so there's too many flames.

So it's quite a funny story actually. The dad threw a mattress, very quick thinking actually on the ground, and then through the club's first, and then he moved onto the mattress. Anyway, we survived that, a pretty scary night actually, and then it turned out it was a Molotov cocktail, a disgruntled employee had thrown one on the roof. So, but anyway, we survived and went on and played the tournament. Husband couldn't carry because his feet were kind of badly burnt and we'd lost all our clothes and everything. I think Kristi Care actually was sponsored by the cost so she got a goodie bag of clothes for me that week, which was nice. So yeah, it was certainly a different week for my first one back.

Wow. Yeah, I guess it's funny now that we know that I assume no one else was seriously harmed, but. No one is hurt. Wow. I did not know it was a Molotov cocktail that started that. Yeah. A weird way to wrap up our time together here, Katrina. But thank you so much for joining in Best of Luck at the AIG Women's Open.

We definitely look forward to watching and hope to do this again sometime in the future. OK, thanks very much. Thank you. Give it a big blow. Be the right club today. Yes! Be the club! That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different? Better than most.