No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 600: Shane Lowry

Episode Date: September 15, 2022

Fresh off a victory at the DP World Tour's BMW PGA Championship, Shane Lowry recaps his win at Wentworth, his 2019 Open Championship victory at Royal Portrush - and how his disappointment at the 2016 US Open at Oakmont prepared him for an eventual major championship win.  Shane also offers some great insight on the future of European professional golf, his decision to not pursue a LIV contract, and some outstanding stories from his first Ryder Cup experience in 2021.    If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA(select parishes)/MI/NH/NJ/ NY/OR/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. New customer offer void in NH/OR/ONT-CA. $200 in Free bets: New customers only. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 wager. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Ends 9/19/22 @ 8pm. Early Win: 1 Early Win Token issued per eligible game. Opt in req. Token expires at start of eligible game. Min moneyline bet $1. Wagering limits apply. Wagers placed on both sides of moneyline will void bet. Ends 1/8/23 @ 8pm ET. See terms at sportsbook dot draftkings dot com slash football terms Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Langout podcast. Solid here. Got a conversation coming to you shortly with our friend Shane Lowry, just won this past week at the BMW PGA. He's never been on the podcast before.

It was super thrilled to make this happen. We talked about a lot of going on, the writer cup. We talked about the open championship, of course, his recent recent win, live everything. We went through it all. So, greatly appreciate his time on this. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends at original Penguin. It is the brand you wear for the good times. I should say it is the brand I wear at all times. There's almost never a time when I do not wear something original penguin throughout the course of the day. Every video you ever see me on the golf course, I am wearing their golf shorts, I wear their hoodies, I wear their jeans, I wear their polos, I wear their long sleeve shirts, sweaters, hoodies, I lost track of how many different

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Again, originalpenguin.com code NLU for 20% off site wide, again, originalpanguine.com code NLU for 20% off site wide. We greatly appreciate their support of NLU over the years. And here is our interview with Shane Lowry. I'd say you've got the reputation, you're high on the list of golfers. I'd love to have a beer with amongst golf friends. What do you credit that to? And in the same vein, how was this past Sunday night?

How would I credit that? I suppose I am Irish for a start, which people were very stereotypical, like a drink. I do like a drink. I actually probably, I probably don't drink as much as people might think to be honest. It's not like I'm saying at home every even I do like to go and meet my friends and enjoy myself. But, you know, I very rarely get to do it these days. I'm living over here in Florida, but when I do get home I do like to do that. Obviously the open was a big thing. When the after the open, I met a no, kind of, made it pretty clear that we were celebrating

pretty hard that week, but I'm all for in this game. It's hard to win and it's hard to win big tournaments. And when you do it, you need to celebrate it. So that's probably why. And Sunday night was actually, it was good. It was nice. We were back at the hotel and had a few friends over the tournament last week. There was a few people we kind of got a place in the hotel and they had some food and drinks for us. Few people kept down Rory called in.

Actually, he was, I think he was one of the last to leave. I was in bed before him. So he was maybe still celebrating his FedEx Copeland. Well, I understand there's a little back and forth leave. I was in bed before him. So he was maybe still a celebrant as FedEx co-pinned. Well, I understand there's a little back and forth on that. You were celebrating with him for the FedEx. I went in for the FedEx. On the Monday after FedEx and made a few drinks. And yeah, he called it over.

So I was actually in bed at 12 o'clock, believe it or not, because I had a golf day to fall on day, which was, I was getting picked up at 6.45. So I was open six on Monday morning. So I was, I was okay. I had any other food drinks. I wasn't too worse for her. Well, how has it been, you know, I was shocked to see with how good a golf you've played over the last year. I don't know where really where you want to date it back to. Shock to see this was your first win since the

2019 open. How do you balance? How good of golf you've played over this recent stretch without having that, you know, that one huge peak week, you know, What how big is the difference, I guess from Winning golf to like T3 golf, right? I can't imagine that gap is that big Well, you just look at it in Sunday Rory if Rory's putting 18s a half an inch left at in and I know the Sun you're gonna learn a playoff and and He's obviously going to be favorite to win the playoff who knows what would happen. But yeah, it's just it's not easy win on tour and I think some people don't realize that it's so hard to

win out here and I think I've given myself quite a few chances over the last year or so. Never really been things have not really gone my way on the Sunday afternoon when you need a tan. And maybe I didn't hold the right puts at the right time or, you know, I didn't just go and kind of grab it. And all of a sudden you have a morning. I did last two years. I've been quite consistent, but consistently like, you know, top 25s, top 20s. And sometimes you start to wonder and you start to go, I'd rather miss cuts and win

every now and then and, you know, make every course. I haven't missed many Cuts in the last couple of years and like I said I've been very rarely actually down the bottom of the leaderboard where you're fighting it out for 50 years someday. I've always been kind of there and there about it's about half-decent weeks so you do start to kind of think you start to go through your head but you just have to believe what you're doing and believe you're doing the right things and that's what you're doing and you get rewarded every now and then and they got rewarded last on that. Well, it's funny. I was watching your Chronicles of a Champion, the open championship videos that they're just

amazing and they're super easy to help me prepare for podcasts. But in that you said, I'll take being streaky and winning big tournaments over being consistently average. I found that ironic. Now, I wouldn't say you've been consistently average, anything but, but you've been incredibly consistent really over the last year without the wids I just found that quote to be yeah it's funny because that's you know I don't win very often but I seem to win big tournaments when I win which is a good trade to have so hopefully it stays

like that over the next few years and I can knock off another couple of big ones and you know if you're to tell me I'm going to win twice or three times over the next five, six, eight years, but they're going to be big tournaments. I'll probably take it. You know what I mean? It's like, I wouldn't swap the open for 20 wins. You know what I mean? I wouldn't do it.

So, you know, the big tournaments are what I love playing. And it's why I get off for them more than to be honest. I love playing golf, I love competing for the big weeks. I absolutely love them. And I just love getting to the tournament. And I look prepared for them more than to be honest. I love playing golf, I love competing for the big weeks. I absolutely love them. I just love getting the tournament and I love preparing for them. I absolutely love them and they're here at the moment and them and so on. I'm going to throw some at you and I'm not even sure there's a question at the end of it, but it seems like as it relates to your past year, in my mind, there's golf where you go into the golf course and you're working on something to approve and you know, improve in some capacity.

And then there's golf where you're going to the course like ready to approve, and some capacity, and then there's golf where you're going to the course like ready to compete, like you got your stuff, and it's a whole different dynamic. It seems like to go out there and play competitive golf where you're thinking, there's my target, I'm gonna hit it there, there's my target, I'm gonna hit it there. Is that something you feel like you've tapped into

and comparing that to times in your career where maybe you've not had as much success, how different is that feeling? So I feel like I genuinely feel like since I've moved to Florida that I'm ready to compete every week that I'm ready to go every week. I play a lot of golf in here, I like golf actually. I enjoy playing like social golf and going out playing with my friends on the weeks off and I think that keeps me sharp.

The golf course is down here at Grace, the weather is perfect and you're pretty much playing like you know similar type conditions to what you'd be playing on tour. So I do feel like I'm ready to play every week I go on tour and but that's only been for the last few years and I feel like that's where my consistency has come from. You know living in Ireland, coming over here to play in the States, you feel you know the first few days or maybe the first week of a three week trip, you're playing your way into the tournaments, you're trying to find a bit of form,

you're trying to work on something, but I genuinely feel like, you know, definitely 90% of the time I'm ready to go. I do feel like more so now than I have done in the past that I'm like the whole start, the whole first four months or three months of this year, I was like working towards Augusta and every round I played and everything I was doing. I wasn't working on anything specifically, but every round I played I was like, right, that's just, it's a good round, that's one round or if you know, one round towards Augusta

or you know, when I finished second at the Honda and I really felt like I kind of showed a wound at one. I was like, right, maybe the golfing gods would pay me back in a couple of weeks. You know, I was still like that. I felt like I was working towards the goast. But I definitely do feel like I'm ready to play competitively more often out and out in the past. And you had a quote this past week that said, you spend your whole life and your career getting up early every day, working your nuts off to get in these positions. And when you get in these positions, it's quite uncomfortable. I find that, you know, as much as you can train as much as you can be ready,

there's no way to simulate the back nine on Sunday. There's no way to practice it. It just comes, does it just come from experience, I guess? Yeah, it does, no matter how many times you put yourself there, when you're standing there, like I'm standing there on Sunday, over a fire burn. And if I hit a bad shot, it's gonna be like, I'm gonna be miserable.

It's gonna mean it's like, it's either, if I hit a'm going to be miserable. It's like it's either if I hit a bad shot and make bogie or you know, get beaten, it's like it's one of the worst weeks of the year. Until you kind of get over that and tell yourself, well, that's still like good golf is a good week. So it's kind of because when you put yourself there, the rewards are so big, but then the bad ones are so bad that it's kind of there's no in between. And I think that's why it's, you know, it's quite nerve-wracking and it's so, it means so much at the time. So yeah, what it does, it is actually like that, you kind of, you know, spend your whole, whole career trying to get there. And when you get there, it's like pretty, like I go back to the

open all the time. That was the hardest 24 hours of my life from Saturday and until Sunday. And it was like, but I'm working as hard as I ever have to try and get back into that position. So it's a funny one. It's not for it's, you know, some dialogue. Well, we could do that now. I was saving kind of open chip chip for later, but it kind of permeates through it through everything, any conversation about your career really.

And it's, you know, what is the difference between, you know, what you just went through this past weekend, tight, tight tournament all the way to the end, and nursing a enormous lead over the course of however many hours in the tournament. Is it fair to say the tournament you would want to win the most out of any tournament you've ever played? Yeah, I always say about Port Roche about the open and I always say,

I'm very lucky, I kept myself very lucky that I got to achieve that to be honest. The advice I sit down whenever I'm finished when I'm 50, say, when I'm finished playing the PGA Tour and the European Tour and you're to write down all the tournaments that I've ever played on the sheet of paper and pick one out that you want to win, that will be the one. And the only one after that will be the one that's there in 2025. So it's kind of, it's one of those where, yeah, I feel very fortunate. I got to do it. And to do it kind of how I did it as well, you know, kind of the last few holds I was able

to enjoy it and everything about it was, was incredible. And yeah, it's, it is one of those that will always be talked about when I'm, when people are talking about me and golf, but I'm more than happy with that. Take me to the first tee Thursday of that tournament. What set the scene for what that week is like for you. I mean, again, you had this circled on the calendar. I'm sure from the moment it was announced, you know, what the family support situations, like what's the all in the ground support situation, like what's it like putting the peg

in the ground first tee Thursday because it didn't go so well for another Irishman that we know. You know what, that first tee Thursday was the most nervous I've ever been on the first day of a tournament of my whole life for some reason. I didn't build a tournament up to myself that I, you know, obviously I wanted to go on win.

I was hopeful that I'd go on win, but I didn't, I didn't have it like March going right. I wanna prepare and do everything I can to win this tournament. I was more so I wanna go there and perform as best I can and get myself in the hunt on Sunday, I'll be brilliant. I had all my old team was there, my family, everybody was there. Yeah, I hit a good tee shot there

and actually I shot four under in the first round. And I remember coming off the course and this is obviously how well I was playing at the time. I remember coming off the course on, that wasn't great. You know what I mean? Probably should have shot a better score. And then I led the whole day. I remember I led the whole day and we were watching the golf in the afternoon and JB Holmes

is really late and he hold a birdie put on the last to take the lead from me, which I was a bit kind of whatever. But yeah, the most nervous I've ever been in the first day of autonomous whole life. I think the T-shirt in general, the T-shirt is very, very, it's a smelly T-shirt. Yeah. How about on the both sides? You know, the grandstands are surrounding you, so you can really feel where the wind is coming from.

And yeah, it's just a really tricky tee shot. And obviously, Roy didn't get on very well with it. But yeah. Well, that ovation on one kind of last that almost a little too long for you. It sounded like you wanted to get into your routine. And then, yeah, I do remember on the Saturday, because I was leading, going to the Saturday,

I was playing with JB Holmes. And I stood in the first tee and they're like, I'm on the tee from Ireland, Channel Aria. And I was ready to hit my shot. And the crowd were still like, going bananas in the grandson. And I'm like, I just want to hit the shot and get this out of the way.

Because it is almost one of those shots where you want to just get out of the way. And that Saturday went very well for me. And that was, you know, those last four holes in Saturday was probably the reason I wouldn't determine. I mean, first of all, you don't want to get too amped up to hit an iron off the tea anyways, right? You know, you want to get amped up to hit a driver, maybe, but is it possible to have? Is it, is it, this might be a really dumb question, but is it, as fun as it looks to play amazing golf in that scene, right? Are you in the moment?

Are you able to like have fun? We see the smile in your face as it's happening, but are you having as much fun as it looks like? Or is there inner turmoil that kind of prevents you from having that much fun? No, you're not having that much fun. You're not. There was a couple of times where I kind of stood back and was like, well, this is unbelievable. I remember like I did really remember on the 17 T on Saturday, because we're the final group, and you look down and the 17T is a pie,

and you look down, it's just like thousands of people everywhere. And I hit my T-shirt, and I call my caddy back, he's gone walking ahead, and I call him back, and I'm like, right boy, and I'm seven under for the round. And I call him back, I'm leading by two or three, I'm leading my three at the time. I call him back, and I'm like, right ball. I'm like, let's enjoy this next 20

minutes because who knows if this will ever happen to us again. And like it was just incredible. And then I birdie 17 and I hit two good shots in blast and just missed them. I enjoyed that kind of half an hour more nearly than the Sunday. It's one of those where I really let it same game, but then it's just pure. The next 12 to 24 hours was just filled with pure fear because I felt, it's almost like I spoke about Wentworth and standing over that five iron and it's either, you know, it's either gonna be great or awful.

That's how I felt. And I said it to my coach on the Sunday morning of the open. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game.

I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. I'm not going to be a big fan of the game. from there, I probably would have taken it very hard. Did you, you know, Scottie Schuffler had some comments after he won the Masters of saying how he was in tears Sunday morning just felt like he was not ready for the moment. Could you, you know, you've been in that exact situation with a different tournament, but can you relate to that? Absolutely.

And that's why I, like I was lying, I was in a good position going out on Sunday to go to the dish area and I said it to everyone in the house, I said, lads, I've been there. He is not going to be like, he's not going to have slept great. He's going to struggle. He has breakfast, you know, all that. And he came out and said it afterwards. I think that the one thing that probably helped him and it helped me and that Sunday was the he owned up to it. I think if you try and buckle it up and say, no, it's fine. I'll just go out and enjoy it. You know, you're any kid in yourself. If you're going to do, if you're saying that. I think if you own up to it, like I own up to it with my coach, I said, look, I have to go and win this tournament today. There's no other

choice. I've no other choice. And Scott, you own up to it. He said, look, he didn't feel like he was ready for getting all that out. I was actually helps you. And that's what I like to do when I'm nervous. I said it to Bo on Sunday, going on 7 a I said, I'm absolutely, you know, shoot myself here. But this is where I want to be. And this is what I want to do. So how much did your close call in 2016 at Oakmont Factor build strength with what is that, you know, that kind of close call, that result, that ultimate, you know, failure, if you will. How did that lead to 2019? What did that do for you? Yeah, look, I think I probably had a, I think the one thing I did at Oakmont

and like a four-shot lead as well, a very difficult golf course, I think if I had to set myself a different target at Oakmont, I think I set myself a target in poor roads, if I can go out and make four or five birdies, I'm gonna be very hard for the beef because I'm not gonna make 10 bogeys, you know, I'll still make a few pars and whatever, I'm gonna be very hard to be. Because I'm not gonna make 10 Bowies,

you know, I'll still make a few Pires and whatever I'll probably shoot around that will par. I think if I, if I went out to, I don't want to try to be a bit more aggressive, I think I would have challenged DJ better. And I think that's what helped me. I said to myself, unless some of them on an important rush,

I said, if I can go out and make a few birdies, I'm gonna be very, very hard to beat today. And that's what helped me. And it looked, obviously, it helped me. And I think at the time I took a walk month very hard because I said to myself, I don't know if I'll ever get this opportunity to win one of these tournaments again,

gentlemen, and thankfully, I did, and thankfully, I did it. If you were to say at the time, if you were to, like, I definitely will have swapped. Obviously, I'd love to. I love the two of them. That's I'm greedy. So I look have the two of them.

And Port Roche definitely kind of I always lose and at all months. You know what I mean? A quick break here to check him with our friends at DraftKings. The NFL's opening weekend was action packed and it is just getting started. You can get ready for week two of touchdowns, big plays, and even bigger wins with Draftking Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL. This week new customers can bet just $5 on any football game and get $200 in free bets instantly.

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that's code NLU, only the Draft King Sports Book and official sports betting partner of the NFL, minimum age and eligibility restrictions apply, C show notes for details. Let's get back to Shane Lowry. Coming off this past week, uh, it went worth after the flagship event seems like a good time to take stock in the DP world tour and its future. You know, you've put your support behind it. What has happened over the last couple of years, you know, it's obviously been extremely damaging. There's no avoiding that. But what do you think about the future of the tour, the decisions that have been made more recently, the increased alignment with the PGA tour and whatnot, kind of where,

where, take its stock of it as of this moment, what are your thoughts? Yeah, look, I think it's been a tough few years for the DPR World tour, which, you know, COVID, especially, you know, COVID's been tougher in the obviously, you know, there's other stuff that's going on, it's been really tough for me. And I always, you know, when the rumors are going around a bit live and stuff like that, I actually always feared for the European tour. And I wondered what was going to happen, what we're going to do. Personally, I was happy to see them aligned with the PGA tour.

I think it's good for me, you know, selfishly, but I think it's good for golf as well. I think, you know, I do think with the support of the PGA tour, the DP World Tour can become stronger and a Cameloc offer players better. And I think it is going to do that. I think the issues that players might have is that, you know, live golf is just thrown around so much money that people feel like that the DP World Tour should have taken that or maybe could have taken that and had that money there but that's too quick of a fix when you're talking about golf in general. I was in the meeting with all the lads in in Delaware and I was just conscious. I'm like, lads, we need to make sure we're doing what's right for golf. Not what's right for us because

I'm like, Lads, we need to make sure we're doing what's right for golf. Now what's right for us because we're not always going to be there, but golf is. And I do feel like what the DP World Tour, what the PGA Tour have done over the last year, and what will do going forward is better for the game of golf than anything else. And that's how I feel about the whole thing. I just want, I'm very lucky that the life I have through golf and through DP World Tour, PGA Tour, whatever. But it's not my God given right to go and go off and and be part of something that could actually, you know, bury those tours. It's just up to me to kind of hold my place there and pass it on to someone else when it's my time to kind of go off and sail off into the sunset. So, yeah, but I do think hopefully what's going on now will strengthen the DP World Tour

and the PGA Tour and hopefully Golf in general can become better going forward. A lot of ways I can go with that. We'll stick with the... I want you to make the pitch. You're a top level player on the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour. Let's say I'm a mid-level mid-tier player on the DP World Tour or the PGA Tour. Maybe that's a separate conversation for each of those, but I'm a mid-tier player and I'm concerned about the direction of things.

So the fact that the top players all met and we're all just coming up with this, I'm concerned right now. What would you say to me to maybe alleviate some of those concerns or make the pitch to me that the direction going forward is the best way? With the Dp world or Tell me where to start. You know, let's start with dp world tour coming off went where?

Well, if you look at the dp world tour, they're going to be playing for more money in the next five years than they ever had. Now, I know they're not going to be playing for 25 million every week, which they would like to be paying for both. Like, that's also not the market rate, right? That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, it has like, like, you know, this thing of golfers been feeling like they're worth 100 million dollar contracts, you know, we're not the NFL at the end of the, we're not the NBA. In my opinion, you know, we are a smaller sport than those and we do need to be very careful.

I hate, I hate at the minute to where how divisive golf is, to be honest. And I think if we divide our top players, golf could be in trouble. So that's what I'm not worried about anything else other than this sport in general. I'm not worried about myself or I'm very fortunate that I've done well out again and I'm okay. I'm just worried about this sport and I just hope it's okay. What would I say to the boys in the DP World Tour? At the end of the day, there's no doubt about it. We all play and I go know, in Europe and my main goal was to get to the PGA tour and to play in the majors and play in the big tournaments. But I always go back and support the D.P. World Tour when I can. And I think this thing,

you know, there's 10 players going to get the card from the D.P. World Tour for America. I think that's incredible. I think that's huge for them. And this is, I played with a, I played with a kid, I played with Matthew Jordan the other day, you know, he's 26. I'm like, you know, the next 20 years, or the next 10 years, I'm like, you've got a great opportunity to get yourself to PJ at tour and I'm not saying, you know, the argument that, that the, that some players have is just going to take the top players away from the DP World Tour. But it's actually, it's just going to make them better and then when we come back, we're going to take the top players away from the DP World Tour. But it's just going to make them better. And then when we come back, we're going to have better players

coming back and playing our big tournaments. And I think personally what they're doing is good. Of course, everyone has their own opinion. That's the thing. And I'm not, like I said in that meeting, I didn't give too much of an opinion, because I'm like, I'm tired of words of saying, they're roaring back, they're always saying, they're like, I let like I let those boys those boys there to people that deserve to have an opinion on

They've never talked about the game for a long time and Yeah, we just we'd have to see how it goes But I do I do I am confident that it's going to the right direction. My I'm confident and I tried to say that the players and I am confident that they're going to be playing a better tour for better money. And, you know, hopefully that is the case. That's where I think a starting point of, hey, the status quo, what has been going on in the past, is not the other option, right? It's not. It's not on either tour, really.

So one, we have to evolve. And I'm saying we, in terms of, if, you know, if I was a DP World Tour member, we have to evolve as one way at aligning with PGA tour But you have to reap the benefits of that alignment which I in my understanding and my my question is Elevating events that are co-sanctioned amongst the DP World Tour and the PGA Tour seems to be a great way to do that The Scottish open. I thought was a great success. I would love to see the Irish open fall in that same vein I would love to see BMW PGA I don't pretend to know all the inner workings of all that stuff, but that seems like the best path forward to satisfying

The members of the DP world tours to say to to make clear what the benefits are the possibility of qualifying for those elevated events or getting into them in some way And knowing that they have a path to the PGA tour seems to be the pitch. Is that a fair way of summering out summarizing it? Yeah, I do think so. I do think there is a chance that down the line, some of our bigger events in Europe will become coal sanctioned and will be maybe a part of the elevated events. Obviously, look south, as you're speaking for me,

that would be great. I'd like to say that, both, like I said, I do want what's right for golf. But I do think, if you want to become the best in the world, you have to, or if you want to become one of the best in the world, you have to play against the best in the world. And I think this alignment with the PJ Tours given our players more opportunities to play against

the best players in the world. And I think if you do that, it's only good for the game. And it's going to create bigger stars in different countries all around the globe. I think that's what we want. Well, I got to admit, if I look back at your comments in the past and the comments of other players in the past, anyone that has uttered the phrase, I'm not a politician or we're just trying to grow the game, has ended up at live.

You are one that has not and I don't believe that's currently on the table for you. But I want to know what, you know, going back, what has been your decision making process or do the factors going into your decision to make, you know, end up where you are and how that, you know, I want to compare that. You can't speak for other players, but compare that to other players. I just want to know what, what works for you? What was your decision to be made?

I'll give you a couple of stories. I have always had, I don't play the game for money, I never have. And I feel like that's why I didn't even entertain it, to be honest. I've said to a couple of players that I've gone to live, I say, why do you play the game for money? Maybe you should probably do it. If you play the game for trophies, you shouldn't. Like I stood there on the 18th, and Sunday I held that trophy, and I looked at names, and it's like,

there is who of European golf, and I'm like, this is incredible, and my name gets to go on that. I don't care how much money I want, and in fact, I was out, we had a few drinks on Sunday night,

and it was like 11 o'clock, and somebody says to me, how much did you win today? And I'm like, I honestly have no idea. And they're like, nowhere. Like they wouldn't believe me, and I'm like, I genuinely have no idea. And they're like, nowhere. Like, they wouldn't believe me.

And I'm like, I genuinely have no idea. And I opened my phone, because I had them and I'm my phone. I opened my phone and I had to go to the text that I got from the European tour to see how much I want. And that's kind of how, that's why I played again. And as well as that is, you know, I've got good, solid people around me. My wife, my wife had a big part,

not big part to play in it, because it was never much of a thought in my head. But she said to me, she said, Shane, all that money isn't going to make you happy. It was going to make you happy as competing at the highest level. And that's the reason I've never, and not the reason I've never gone because the reason I haven't even gone, I don't think it's good for the game. And that's why it's never been a tough process. I think it's a different, you know, one of my reasons

why I didn't think live would work was how current current top level professional golfers are well compensated, right? If that, if you'd opened up your phone and it has said you want a hundred grand for winning one of the biggest events and somebody else was offering up four million to win one, it might be a different decision making process, right? If you guys were not making a very, very good living, I think it would be a different decision making process. And I want to have this kind of laugh when I mentioned the politician thing. I want to

have this conversation with a player, right? Because I think I myself was one of them. There was some backlash to that comment, I guess. And one, do you regret saying that or that kind of angle of it? Do you understand why people had a different viewpoint of that, if you will? Uh, I absolutely understand. And when I said I was like, why did I say that? It was one of those were wrong thing to say. Yeah, look, I thought, but the thing is I went, I played, I played the Saudi international for the last three years.

So for me, like, I'd be very hypocritical if I said it's, it's about where the money's coming from. I just think it's bad for the game. And that's's bad for the game and that's how I feel about it. It's a... Will I go back and let us have the international next year? No, but I do think that this is bad for the game because I think it's very divisive and I think we would love to be going out and playing the big tournaments and I'd love if all the top players were there, your DJs broke the price and, I'd love if we were all still playing against you but we're not and that's the,

and that's, no, the reason is because it lives. So, yeah, I don't think it's good to begin. No, I think that is an interesting conversation, right? Because there's been many, many, many takes about this whole thing. One of them is, hey, the PGA Tour has all these sponsors that do business in Saudi Arabia, right? Or, you know, the European tour held up an event

in Saudi Arabia. And I think to your exact point there, there is a large, large, large difference in my view as well of playing one event in Saudi Arabia, which I would disagree with a lot of people that choose to play it. And other people are welcome to agree with that or whatever.

And totally completely disrupting the infrastructure of golf that is set up quite well, right? And for rather selfish reasons, guys that are leaving are getting a better deal out of this than the world that they're leaving behind. And I just, I find that an interesting conversation to have with someone like yourself who, you know, it's an interesting question. What, what level of statement is it politically for players to go play in a specific tournament?

And it's not something that a lot of players necessarily think of critically week to week and what should they? And I think that's one thing to come out of it. There's no clean answer to that, you know? Yeah, but the reason, you know, the reason I went to play is I just went in the open. Yeah. In 2019, I signed a deal to go play there for three years when it was European tour event. Yeah. I had Abu Dhabi, Dubai, three years when it was European tour events. Yeah. I had Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Saudi Arabia, they're all beside each other and I used to play the three of those, I started here and then come back and play in America. And for me, at the time, maybe I was wrong to think it, but I thought, yeah, that's fine,

I'll do that. And there's no doubt about it. I'd say I don't play the game for money, but I was getting well looked after for Gondar, generally mean. And that's the reason I went, put along because of the European Tour event as well. And it just felt like it was, you know, especially on a rider copier, stuff like that, you're going, you're picking up points, doing stuff like that. You know, maybe I misjudged the room when I did that. And I definitely felt

that they share when I was going there. That's, you I was you know not one of the better like all first in the world at the time but and I had to fulfill my contract and I went. I am one of the players that doesn't think that live should be gone and yeah I don't I don't like the idea so yeah. That makes total sense to me it really does I mean again the scale of those decisions I, is when I appreciate you welcoming, welcoming questions, something that, because I know it's not the, it's not been, it's a tough subject for me to talk on because I've never been outspoken on that and until last week when I got asked about it. And people ask me why even everyone outspoken, I'm like, they normally ask me about it because I'm

not in front of the media all the time. The reason Rory's very outspoken is because every day he plays around the golf, he's asked about it. And I can imagine how difficult it is for him. What's it as awkward as you were expecting it to be among some of the live players that last week at the BMW PGA? It was, yeah.

I felt it was, to be honest. I don't know about other people. Very good friends or, you know, lads that lads that I've been friendly with for a long time and lads have been quite close with it. I don't think it's going to tarnish our friendship but I just won't see them. You know I said to GMAT last week I'm just not going to see it. I might see it once or twice a year so we won't hang out much at all. That's kind of that's the way it is and then you kind, when you're not hanging out with someone, you don't, you know, you don't stay very friendly with them or become pretty or as close. So yeah, I thought it was very awkward. I personally

didn't like seeing a couple of the players there and that were there. There wasn't too many, like, you know, I said I started to eat. There was, there was the, the older stalwarts of the European tour that have been around for a long long time. I kind of didn't mind them being there, but then I kind of was like, uh, maybe they shouldn't be there. If I was one of those players that went to live, I wouldn't have showed up. There's not a chance I would have been there. It would have been too uncomfortable for me, both. They were there and it was awkward and it was pretty awkward at times to be honest. Well, because we've been making the point for a long time as to exactly why

these players should not be allowed in these events, right? Because to a lot of people on the surface level, like, hey, do you want Dustin Johnson in your PGA tour event? Like, if you're a sponsor, the answer to that is yes, right? On an isolated basis, right? But grand scheme wise, can you help explain if you believe this? Why that cannot, that shouldn't necessarily be the case or why, you know, why, the infrastructure pro golf in terms of grouping your marketing and media rights, why it makes sense for those players to kind of be on one of these, be on live or be DP World Tour slash PGA tour.

Yeah. I get what you're saying. If, if, like, there's no doubt those players, then the event strengthens the field, or makes it, makes the field better. But I feel like their actions over the last few months have their actions going to live. Didn't you what was going to happen with live and there was going to be disruptive and there was going to be divisive and there was going to be all these things. And for them to think that they can just kind of come back and play whenever they want

and you know they're going to be playing 14 live events next year. And they're going to have their dates that might be opposite some of our bigger events. And then the mobile of the goals, I just don't think I don't think the total true properly. The fact that the total will be a lot of playing was going to be all very easy. So yeah, I, you know, they're not going to be like playing the BJ tour, but it's probably still going to be a lot of playing Europe for the next while. I think maybe there's a core case at some stage to see if they can play and maybe that's one of the reasons they all showed up last week to show that they want to play. Maybe they had to go to my play and for that reason, but I don't

know. Well, it just goes to, again, go back to your Chronicles of Champion of a Champion and hearing you talk about falling in love with the game. And then hearing about like talking about court cases, about plague tournaments. And I just can't think of like how more, you know, a more opposite ends of the spectrum of like what I love about golf and like guys suing their way to get into professional golf events. Like, they're really, really flirting with the interest of fans, right, of why people

tune in to watch golf and why people tune in to watch golf and why people tune into watch sport. I mean, it's to be entertained and it's to be that question mark of caring about what happens down the back nine of Port Rush. Like, you can't replicate that. You can't fake that anywhere, right? And stretching out the golf world and in this way, I personally just don't believe it's a good path towards. So I feel like, how I feel about golf is like, even though we're like, me and you, we're in golf, like, we're, we're, we're, we're, like, well in golf and we love the game.

And there's a lot of people that love the game. But in, in the grand scheme of thing, golf is actually a small sport. Yes. It's not that big of a sport. We're very lucky that corporate America and corporate, everyone in corporate around the world loves golf. And that's why we've such great sponsors and that's why we've never done money but I do feel like This is causing a division in the game and if that does that it's gonna piss people off people are gonna stop watching us

You know people I think the amounts of money that I've been thrown around you're absolutely disgusting at them and even I think the amounts of money that I've been thrown around you're absolutely disgusting at them. And even I feel like, you know, I feel like all people talk about was money now. I feel like some people don't talk about what you're in. I feel like the PJ tour for 10 years have tried to get money out of thought. You know, we play for points now in the FedEx Cup.

Whereas then even, you know, you go to watch the tour, I watched the tour championship. All the commentaries talked about was how much money they were going to win and I was like when you just talk about the trophy or the title they're going to win or you know how many times Tigers wouldn't it you know talk about going down the stretch Rory's going to surpass Tiger if he wins this or you know it's still like that I I feel like yeah I think it's just this goes to them and some money that we're talking about it feels. It's a turn off for a lot of fans. I know.

It felt like the general, you know, Joe's hope that, you know, a guy that works as not soft to make 50 grand a year and, you know, has a struggle maybe even to pay his membership at his golf club and loves the game so much. This is probably pissing him off more than anyone. And I think that's a round thing to do. Yeah. I think it, you know, this year felt like with all the other money being thrown around a golf, it was maybe time the tour decided it was time

for us to emphasize, hey, how well we are playing. We're paying your players a lot of money, right? It's not, this is not a bad living there, but I agree it's not why people root for certain players is for their bank accounts. But would you say the, you know, you're in the room in Delaware, as you mentioned, one player that was in the room so far has left for live, but of the remaining other 22 guys, how good do you feel about the bleeding has stopped? They're not going to lose a lot more of those guys. It seems like the consensus out of that meeting was unanimous. They agreeing on the path forward. Neiman has already left since then. Obviously left since then. But what is your sense on it?

Has the bleeding stopped if you will amongst top players? Yeah, I would think I'd be fairly confident that the rest of guys in that room are okay now. And that's what makes me confident that PGA Tour is together because I think those 20 players are definitely, you know, seven or eight out of those twenty pairs are the bones of the PGA tour. And as long as they're playing the PGA tour, I think it will be the best tour. I do think, though, we came to one conclusion and not meet them. And we all know that we do need to play against each other more often and create a better

spectacle because at the end of the day, we're in the entertainment business and we want to make sure that we're entertaining the public and we're putting on a good, you know, good TV on a Sunday afternoon. No matter what tournament it be. And so I think that was kind of, that was one good thing that came out. I mean, I think that's what's going to be great for golf going forward. I think that we've got to do something about that demographic too, because that picture's not getting any, it's got to get a lot younger in terms of who's watching golf it seems like too. picture, so I'm getting it any praise. It's got to get a lot younger in terms of who's watching golf. It seems like to. Yeah, exactly. So we need to, you know,

you know, maybe over the last 20 years golf hasn't really changed that much. Maybe we need to change it a little bit. Maybe live, what live has done is making us change it for the better, but I'll still sit here and I don't still don't think that I know there's been certain quotes

and certain comments that we should thank the live players for what they've done for us, but I still don't believe that. The thing is with me, right, so I go play my tournaments, I try and do my best and I go home and I'm very fortunate to have the life I have and that's how I feel about it. I've never been one of those bears. Like I've not been one of those bears that's time to go, we should be playing for 20 million a week. We should be doing this.

The PJ Tours should be giving us this. I have a life that I thought I never would have, to be honest, from the PJ Tours. And I am. And you might think people might listen to this and think I'm bullshitting you, but I actually, I am not. And I've never been one to sit around and say, this is what the PGA Tour should and shouldn't be doing.

I'm very happy with what I have. I love golf the way it is. I love the PGA Tour and European Tour the way they are. And I am actually a bit of a like a tradition as when it comes to golf. And I do love the older events and I do love all the history with it. And I want to win those events.

And that's kind of why I play. And everything else that comes with it. And I want to win those events, and that's why I play. And everything else that comes with it is secondary for me. So I don't really have an opinion on any of that. Well, I got to say, I do blame you a little bit in terms of how I interpreted how things would play out with live, because your comments about the Ryder Cup last year just hit me so deeply.

Like, it helps shape what I understood, professional golf to be. Like, you guys play for a lot of money. Money's important, but the week you weren't being paid was what you called the best week you had in golf. And I guess I naively thought that sentiment would have been shared by a lot more players than it has apparently, because that just made me super happy

to hear that you be a reaction. In a week where you guys had a very poor week as a team and the result was not what you wanted. You had the time of your life playing it. And I don't know. That was that was heartwarming to me. And I guess I that's why that was one of the reasons why I honestly thought this thing would not get off the ground.

But I don't know if you could speak to that week in terms of why you walked off that walked away from that event, just feeling that warm and fuzzy. It's amazing because we got absolutely pumped and like I went away thinking no matter what happens for the rest of my career I want to be involved with those. I'll do anything, I'll make the coffee, I'll do anything as long as I'm there and trying to help you or win. I want to be there and it was just the most incredible week to be there kind of fighting for your team and your tour and all that and trying to win points

and playing against such a good American team and kind of very kind of hostile crowd, but I loved it. I loved doing that and I just loved every bit of it. And to be honest, I didn't think, I didn't know what to expect when I was gone there because I'd never been to one or played in one and I was definitely different than I thought it'd be. I was a bit more animated than I thought it'd be. I was a bit more pulfer than I thought it'd be. And to be honest, I was a lot calmer than I thought it'd be. I felt like I really, really kind of, I kind of owned up to it and I felt like I played well. I only won one of the three points for it. It was one of the best weeks of my career. It was probably the most memorable week of my career.

It actually was just sitting around a team room every night with everyone. That was one of the best parts of getting to know everyone pretty well. It was one of those weeks where I was a member. And it makes me just want to be there next time. Tell the story of, I don't know, which night in the team room it is, but when when the introductions are made of the rookies added to the team, right,

I heard some details of the video that plays and kind of the moment that it becomes when you guys got your number, right, the of the which number player you were in European writer cup history. I wonder if you could tell that story. Paul Rikwant, but I suppose every captain tries to do the debate and try to do a different thing and he went with I think it was to 164 or 165. I was 163 anyway. When you realize how few people have actually played right across Europe, you've ever started to, it starts to, you start to feel like wow I'm kind of, this is a pretty big deal. I knew it was a big deal, we're a pretty big deal. Just to be in the team room, and I looked around the team room, and I would see certain players

that were there, but I looked around the team and I was like Sergio Lee, Polz, Rory, there, John Ram, I'm like, this is the who-who-who-of-ever been European golf, and I'm here, and I'm about to go out and do battle with them, and watch my other corpse over the years, and it was quite a surreal moment for me. And it was pretty cool. And that's one of those, one of those even that you kind of remember, and one of those even that you go back and I'm like, you know,

because you're in the team with the lives and all the women are down, series having dinner and you kind of come down and talking to a wife but I'm like a little kid at Christmas and I still feel like that. It's, it is pretty cool. And it's quite a surreal experience. Well, it got a little, you got a little chippy at times too. It seems like with, there was some back and forth on, on concessions and some, some gestures made

on links of puts that were forced to be forced to be made throughout that. I wonder if you could kind of tell what inspired. So I think I didn't get to church. The Americans go for each other. JT, we'll see if we'll see if it out next week in the Presidents' Co-JT. Like, go for each other. I know JT very well and they get on with them. He gets very churchy when it comes to reggae

cope and Presidents' Co-Fan. I seen him on one whole, I seen a picture of him actually. I was in, I wasn't playing in the morning, I was sad picture of him actually I was in I wasn't playing in the morning I was sadder the morning and I wasn't playing in the morning and I seen a picture of him there Doing that with the putter length and it was like it wasn't and his wasn't to give me like it wasn't to give me and I had about a four and a half put on the first against Tony and and Harry Singers on the Saturday afternoon And it was definitely a give me and they give it to me and I did it just like taking the piss and then I did it on I did it on the night JT was standing at the back of the ninth hole and I had like a 3 or

4 footer that definitely wasn't a give me but I knocked it in and I kind of did it and I looked at JT and pointed it and I just started laughing but Bryson did it as well. Bryson's porter was about six feet long. So I don't know why he was doing that. Yeah, it was, yeah, look, there's emotions that run high. And it's funny that, you know, stuff,

you do stuff that week that you never think you do, but it's all, it's very intense, but it's all just a bit of fun that you're doing. And it's all for, like, it's great for the game. It's one of the's very intense, but it's all just a bit of fun at the end of the day and it's all for, like it's great, pretty game. It's one of the most special weeks ever, like it really is. And like I'll be watching the presence cup next week.

It's still pretty big, but it's not the Ryder Cup. It's one of those. The one thing I, the one B and my bun, I have about the presence cup is they get, they get a practice match every year for the Ryder Cup. So yeah, it's something that I might feel like they have an edge on us with that, but I think we'll have a good team next year. I do, you know, people are probably already writing us off, but I think if you look at

the core of our team, it's going to be very strong. And I think we get a few of those good European young players true and start to break them. I think we'll be quite strong on the road. I don't know. You can win six straight matches at home and still try to play the underdog card. I'm not going to let you do that.

All right. The Americans are going to be the other dog. I mean, they may not be that on paper, but they better feel like the other dog when they come over there. But how far back do you and Rory go? I mean, I was watching highlights your own nine, you winning the Irish open as an amateur. He's there on the 18th green, spraying you in champagne. I was just curious kind of where your guys origin story is.

We played a bit of golf together when we were younger, but like Rory, even though he's younger, he's two years younger to me, he was always a step ahead of me when I came to golf and he was always like, you know, if I was playing under 18, he was playing under 20s and he was always playing men's golf before I was. But then we played like in 2007, we played on the same team, we won the European Championship, the team championships, which was a big deal. And then he obviously turned pro after that and I turned pro in 2009, won the Irish Championship, the team championships, which was a big deal. And then he obviously turned pro after that. And I turned pro in 2009, when the Irish Open he was there, I fed a practice time with him that week, knew him very well. I didn't know him very well. And then,

you know, we got on tour, but I was playing many in Europe, he was playing a bit more in America, so I wouldn't have seen him that much. And then I think over the last few years, we've definitely, you know, we've grown closer than we ever have been. And I live down here, like I live 10 minutes from him. Our wives are very good friends. We've got kids similar age. So kind of just all this worked out. And we do hang out a bit and we play practice together.

And we see each other and we play quite a bit of the Baris Club actually. And there's no doubt about it. And I always say if you want to become a Barigal for you to play golf, a Barra players and it's definitely helped me over the years playing golf with him because he was a Baris Club on a Tuesday afternoon if you don't you ate under your losing the money. So it's kind of, it's one of those and And yeah, we definitely over the last four to five years, we've grown closer down with Dan, we ever have been. And it's great for me to have one of the best players in the world and one of the best players over the last 10 years

as one of my girlfriends and somebody who I can talk to as well. Do you ever get this question about, I still refuse to believe, Bo, your caddy is not your dad. He just looks like you advanced, you know, however many years do you ever get that? Everybody jokes about on Twitter. Everybody says, okay, everybody says, yeah.

But Bo doesn't like it because he's only, he's only 14 years, he would have had to have me look at a young age. Even though he's not quite 50, but he looks 60. He looks like he'll look the same age though what he is actually 60. I know, yeah, he looks at the two next to the age. Can you tell, the only story I've been asking to repeat

that I heard was from the Chronicles of a Champion, your story of letting a previous caddy go and how much that affected you and when that was, I wonder if you could tell that story. I've only ever had two caddies in my career. Boads, I've had for the last four years in Endermen before that Endermen burn.

So I got out after about five weeks on tour, I realized I needed a caddy, somebody experienced an Endermen. He wasn't available, he actually left one of the other Irish players come work for me. GMax caddy can ask somebody, and he can. My name is, he showed me a lot. I learned a lot from him, showed me the ropes.

Then, you know, we'd spent nine years together. We'd been successful together. He was like a best friend or a big brother to me. And I was one of those where, because I got so close, so I probably kept him on for a year or two, longer than I probably should have, and maybe a change would have helped. And then yet, at the opening,

Karnusti, I shot Coplo over, three over the first day, and we did a bit of an argument back and forth, and I was like, look, I just can't do this anymore. This has been going on too long, and I was under a lot of pressure as well. I was losing my PJ tour card. And it was the first year that they had to keep it and stuff

like that. We ended up finishing it. But we're still in good terms. He actually caddies for Leona Goyermale. And he's doing quite well with her. And definitely, without giving him too much credit, it's definitely a part of the reason I think Leona's making her way up the world of golf in the women's

game. He's a great caddy, a great person. And I'm sure he's doing a great job for our. So, yeah, it was just hard and to be honest, you know, I, after poor Rush, he was the one person I felt sorry for. I felt like, you know, it would have been great if he was there as well, but obviously he could not be, he can't have to do it. And it was great for both of them being from there. And I swore after that That I'd never become close to the kind of ever again, but sure Lo and behold like it all very well with Paul and you know, we're very we can all we're friendly and we meet

You know all the time and so play that so well I think what spoke to that story especially for me was you effort happened You said you got back in the car and you started crying you just cry I started crying. Yeah, it was Yeah, I've heard around. I was just yeah, I was I was in tears golf was tough at the time and that start crying. I start crying, yeah, it was, yeah, after the round, I was just, yeah, I was in tears. Golf was tough at the time. And that's why I talked to you, you know, we talk about celebrating and enjoying the good times. There's been plenty of times where I've been crying in locker rooms or in the car and

the car park and stuff like that. So it was just hard for me to do. It was like, you know, it's like breaking open a long term girlfriend that's like one of those, it's just hard to do, stuff like that. So favorite golf course in Ireland. People are going to expect me to say, poor Rush. Yeah. I'm going to give it to, because I'm going to give you my favorite

links course, my favorite, it's my favorite links course for Marna. My favorite course to go and play is a dare-matter. Okay. Yeah, it's a daremanner. What J.P. is there is incredible. I don't know if you've seen it at the program. Have you been there? Not been to the program, but we went and played there in 2019. You played, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay, yeah. So like it's incredible.

It's the warm place that I like my house is two hours away from it. And you know, I'll happily get into my car a couple of times where we can go drive down and go play. The fact that it's in Ireland is incredible. The whole place is yeah. So that's probably my favorite place. One of my favorite places in the world to just go and play golf. Especially you know with my friends. I love playing golf with my friends. That's gonna hope there. It's like a it's like a social experiment of what would you how would you play if every lie you had was perfect. You're never going to have a lie. Even in the rough. It's not easy though.

That's somehow, that rider cup's going to be fantastic. That back nine is really special. Favorite off the beaten track, and you can define that any way you want, but off the beaten track, Irish course. A little under the radar, no ballie bunion, no truly, none of that. Just a little bit next tier. Sneaky, really good, Irish golf course. You know where I did,

I actually didn't play the course, but I was there a few weeks ago, and I did like a beat the pro. I was in a golf there, one of my sponsors, Duke's, where did Duke's golf in there? Up in there, yeah. Yeah, it's fantastic.

Incredible. It was a beautiful day when I was there and the views and everything, but it looks incredible. And I want to get back and play there at some stage, so that's kind of, but off to being being tracked, actually, probably the best course in Ireland off to being tracked, would get a few visitors, but not that many, be in a scrone. Yeah.

And have you been to Carn? Yeah. Up in there as well. That's the one for me. That's the one for me. That's like the average. Yeah. So, so out of this world.

So far away now. It is so far away. It's out there. The road structure out there is not that well set up. Next stop is New York. Pretty much so. It's like, yeah. All right, well, Shayne, I know you've had a busy week

coming off the win and everything. Greatly appreciate you spending some time with us and sharing some perspectives on some fun things and some not so fun things. But great, they appreciate your openness on that and be happy to have you back anytime. Cool, thank you very much. Cheers. It's a good right club. Be the right club today.

That is better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most.