No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 607: Coaching Neil with Lynn Marriott and Pia Nilsson

Episode Date: September 28, 2022

Lynn Marriott and Pia Nilsson return to the pod to help put their Vision54 program to work on Neil's mental game on the course. From better practice routines to learning how to handle failure - and success - during a round, Lynn and Pia offer some great insights for our own Icarito that have helped countless golfers of all skill levels play better golf. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up Podcast. Sully here, got a fun little twist of an episode for you. We are going to talk shortly with Lynn Marriott and Piannelson, a Vision 54. We've had them on in the past to talk about a few of their books.

This session, we're going to let Neil kind of explain it to you, but I thought it'd be fun to just kind of experiment and have kind of have Neil get a live coaching mental golf session on live on the air. And this isn't normally how they coach their players, basically working through some questions and some deficiencies that Neil has. And it was really, really fun. I thought it very, very interesting and helpful to my own game as well. And that's kind of the idea. Hopefully you find it helpful as well. PN Leonard, both part of the Schwab Golf Challenger series. You can find that out at SchwabGolf.com. It's on a really cool content around some really cool people

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at checkout. Go to Woop.com, whop.com, and our NLU15 at checkout to save 15% here is Lynn Marriott and P. Nielsen. Well, Neil, we've had P. N. Lynn on before. We did a great episode about the book Be a Player a couple years ago. I got a lot out of it. I don't know what your familiarity is with it, but I thought we might do something a little different today, won't you tell us the other listeners

what we're doing today? You know, I glanced at it. I took some literature. It was very helpful. I think as you know, Sally, I feel like the mental side of the game is, I don't want to say help me back. I think I've gotten a lot better out of the last three or four years.

Now, the golf's become a big part of my life, but there's always work to be done. And I'm always looking to get better. So I'm really, really excited to come into the, I guess, a version of the film room here with PN Lynn and just kind of break down. What do I do? Well, where do I need to improve? And selfishly, I'm hoping to tangentially pick up a few things because my mental game needs a little maintenance. I think I know the lessons, but it needs a little maintenance

is what we learned last time. But welcoming in Lynn Marriott and P N L Sin from many books and many pieces of literature across the world at this time. But yeah, thank you so much guys for joining us. Why don't you give us a quick intro for those that may not have heard our previous episode into Vision 54, what you so much guys for joining us. Why don't you give us a quick intro for those that may not have heard our previous episode into Vision 54, what you guys do.

We'll start with Lynn because there are two different people in the line, I always want to separate the accents. Yeah, so I'm Lynn Marriott and I'm the American with the American accent and I'm co-founder of Vision 54 and P and I've been doing Vision 54 20 some years, 20 plus years. I'm a PJ professional, LPJ professional and just happy to be here to help Neil today. Yeah, so obviously I'm Pia, Neilson and Swedish American. But anyway, so what we do with Vision 54, the main thing is to help golfers play better on the golf course and enjoy it more. And when I say that, of course, you need technical skills, but we know there's

so much more. And we want to make sure more golfers get the fuller view of the skills needed to to play your best. So that's our big passion and to look more golfer, what happens on the golf course for us is more interesting than what happens on the driving range. So we do that with professional players and what we call the real golfers, those other 99.9% of golfers on the planet. And then we train lower coaches to around the world.

Yeah. And just for clarity, for the listeners, 54 is about embracing potential and embracing possibilities. I mean we do believe a player will shoot 54 or lower and we've supported two professional players on a concern stem and Russell Knox who shot 59. But more importantly for all the kneels of the world and really the majority of golfers on the planet, it's about embracing possibilities. That's what I said. I think 54 has kind of been co-opted

in a little bit of golf world. Now that I hadn't... I'm thinking about changing our name to Vision 53 because you can make an equal. Come on. And you two are you based in Arizona? Yes, we are. What's the course?

It's got still. What's the course? Talking stick golf club. Okay, I bring that up because I was out there for a friend of mine. He had a bachelor party and we played out there. It's got still what's the course talking stick golf club. Okay. I bring that up because I was out there for a friend of mine. He had a Bass Ruparti and we played out there myself a bunch of horrible golfers and I saw the logo on the tent on the range. And I thought, Hey, you know what? Yeah, I can either go out and play with these idiots or maybe I could, you know, just walk in and and get a lesson. But I ended up Playing with those idiots. I ended up playing with those idiots. I don't get me to see a lot of those groups out there. Yeah, yeah.

How do you know I got the casino out there? There's a lot to do for a group like that. Yeah. Well, we want to thank you guys for making an exception. This is not how you would typically coach or teach or train a player that you would be helping in some way, but thought it'd be a fun little experiment to kind of almost have a live coaching session here

on the line with Neil. I kind of selfishly used the last interview to help me with a few things. I snuck a few things in there that I was trying to help with, but thought it'd be fun. Our listeners have a lot of context in understanding Neil's struggles with the mental side of golf, but I hate to say that you actually really improved on the mental side, but what would you credit to the improvement that you've made over recent years? Well, I'm always have to be the guinea pig here at NLU. I like to challenge myself. I would say I have improved. I think some of it is just I would start with zooming out a little bit. Like,

I was actually talking to somebody. We had a golf event in Ohio this weekend a couple days ago. And I was talking to somebody about how I think I started, when I started full-time here doing NLU, I was an eight-handicap. I'm down to a two-handicap, and sometimes it's hard to zoom out and realize, man, that's a pretty big jump, and I'm starting to acknowledge that the easy wins, a lot of the easy gains are gone. When I was an eight-handicap, the reason I was an eight, I think think was because I had a big right miss and I think I've done a great job of simplifying my game off the team making better decisions not trying to kill it like being consistent about trying to hit

the fairway and not trying to hit it as far as possible I still pick my spots to do that but I think that's really brought my scoring down a lot, but now it's when you're at it too. And maybe I'm wrong about this. I feel like the easy wins, it's almost like going to the weight room. It's very easy to get when you start from zero. It's very easy to go to 60, but then it's very hard to get to 70 or 80%. You know what I mean?

It's hard to, I felt that way when I play college football. My first year, I gained a lot of strength, a lot of weight in the off season, and then as I try to get bigger the year after that, and the year after that, it got a lot harder. Finishing returns. Yeah. So I think zooming out, and I think the other thing that I've noticed is my floor has risen. So one thing I've personally, like like proud of is that I haven't shot over 90 since I think 2019 or early 2019 and looking at my scores like in the USGA app, my average score

has gone from 81 to 80 and now this year it's 78. So the bad rounds are not as bad. I think my highest score this year is an 85, right? So, but it's hard because I don't have, you know, I think my best score this year is a 73, which is not like I, I'm, I don't want to say I'm scared to go low. Maybe that's a little bit of it, but the, you know, the ceiling hasn't gone up yet. And I think that's, you know, keeping some perspective on it, that's hard to do, right? That's the part that is like, can you break through to the next, you know, the next level, sealing wise, but it's worth acknowledging that I think my floor has gotten a lot higher, and that's why my handicaps come down. So how good do you want to be? Yeah. I would love to be a zero plus

handicap. I would, you know, and I, and I, and I, Charlie and I have talked about this on a few pods, like, I don't think my goals are big enough right now and golf. But for me, this year, it was, I wanted to get to a zero. I don't know if I'm going to get there, you know, we're running out of, maybe running out of time. I haven't played quite as much this year. I need to practice more, but going into next year, maybe we set some bigger goals for next year. So, do you want to be a scratch plus as a competitive player

or more recreational playing with your buddies. I think I would love the competitive side of golf. I would like to play more competitive golf. And hopefully over the next five to 10 years, I, you know, I make the effort to do that. That's that's more balls in my court there. But I guess for this

conversation, it would be, you know, what takes me from two, you know, to zero. And I think, you know, on the mental side of the game, one thing that I struggle with right now is, I feel like I can do it. I can play really well and stay very focused for nine holes. I really struggle with the consistency over 18. I still have a, like a rogue double bogey every round. And a lot of it is like unfocused of one bad decision.

Sometimes one bad swing, but I think that comes from not being focused as well. That's my, you know, kind of self-diagnosis. And then I think for, if I really wanted to improve, I think proximity to the whole is something, you know, when I have wedge in my hand, I still have a mindset, I think of a six-handy cap, where it's like, oh, hey, I hit the green, you know, from a hundred yards. That's a 20 footer. And it's like, we have to, we have to expect more, I think, when I have, you know, 125 and in. Yeah.

So that's kind of on the high end of like, hey, you need to think a little different. And then on the other side, it's like, how can I maintain that focus throughout around so that I don't have that double that, you double that leads to me shooting 73 instead of 71? Okay. And just realistically, everybody says they want to practice more. Sure. And realistically, you know, what? I mean, yeah, how much time can you actually dedicate to, you know, some game improvement time? So it's funny because I'm a pretty goal oriented person

and kind of in the physical world, I just climbed Mount Rainer out in Seattle. And so I dedicated a bunch of time to training for that. So if I set a goal and I take, you know, it's something we're going to do, I can find the time to practice. Right now, you know, I would say I just, I'm not doing it, right?

So I need to set, that's a, I know you guys can't help with that. But it's not that I don't like to practice. I just, I think our issue is, I think they can help with that. Or maybe, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, so much about practice is knowing, where am I going to get my biggest ROI? And then having very specific action things

you're going to do. And even with our skills, with people called the mental game, we call them the human skills, not mental skills. But they need practice as well. They need action. It's not just like a flip or a switch. Well, and it can be fine even if you don't go out to the golf course and practice because

the other way, so improving too. So it's just being realistic. This is how much I can practice. So then we will know what you can improve on. And I'll just say like with the proximity to the whole, that's pretty simple in that setting up a place where you can get feedback on hitting those 125-year shots in. So just one quick question already about that focus you talked about. Just making sure you're not trying to focus the whole time. Meaning you focus for a golf shot and then you take a break or just taking a walk. No, it's not so much that. We kind of have a joke around here of like,

everything becomes clear to me after the fact, which is a very obvious thing to say, but it's almost like immediate for me. Like I rarely on the golf course in my like, I don't know what happened there. You know, a lot of people say like, I don't like, it's not like a rogue swing. I don't shank it.

I don't, you know, it's like, oh my God, it's more like immediately after I hit it, I'm like, why was I trying to do that? You know, it's bad course management. It's like, you know god, it's more like immediately after I hit it, I'm like, why was I trying to do that? It's bad course management. It's trying to maybe get greedy in a certain spot. Or you know what, I'm gonna try to hit a punch. I'll give you an example. On the 10th hole, it's Springfield Country Club.

And I hit, it's like a 105 shot. I should have, and the win was behind me. I should have hit my 60 degree. I don't like to make a full swing with wedges. Instead, I tried to hit like a punchy, you know, 48 degree, which is going to go 120. Well, guess what? I hit it great and I flew the green. I hit it right into, you know, lost ball into into the into the junk. And immediately I was like, the play here was the pin was in the back. The, you know, the green slopes front, back to front. Like, if I come up short here, it's not a big deal. Like, what am I doing?

Why am I not thinking that through? And immediately after I was like, that was just such a bone-headed decision. And there's one of those waiting for me. You know, I can't, I can't seem to play the complete game. I guess is how I would put it. So when you play and you play well, so share with us what do you do before the shot? Back here. What's your, you know, all of us, you know, we call it the think box, but before the shot, and what do you like to focus on during the swing or motion when you play well? Yeah.

If I can just interject here, I want to set this thing a little bit for Neil, that he was a college football player. He hits it very far. He has is very athletic and is I've seen over the years him honing with a focus in on golf. How much he's improved in it. So he has incredible physical skills and I if I may say unlimited potential. I just want to set that part of the scene for for the conversation because of how much better he's improved and how and how well he hits the ball. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. I've never told you that. Well, but you know what they say, the worst thing in the world is waste of talent, right?

So that's why golf can be a little bit of a, it can be tough for me because I do feel like I should be playing, you know, I should be scoring better. Yeah. So tell me how do you do there before the show because just want to check it up on what you're doing So, you know, so I've come off the tee and I would say pretty much every shot, you know, other than maybe chipping and putting I Have a good route like free throw routine and actually max homa talking to him on a show We did strapped years ago He was like you have to you have to find a free throw to he, he was like, you're doing something different on every t-shot. And so I've come to a, you know, one practice swing. I kind of find my, you know, my feel or almost my trigger. And then I pick my target. I step up. I do usually one

waggle. I kind of set my shoulders and then I go. And when I stick to that, you know, some days you have the feel, I'm a, I do sense that I'm a, when I'm playing my best, I'm playing athletically kind of with, with feel. Um, so I find that when I see my swing like on camera, it starts to make me try to perfect it instead of just, you know, playing my swing. And I think that that's worked now for the past year and a half or so, because I used to skip around a different swing fields, right?

And then you start stacking swing fields and it spins out of control. You've got to start all over again. And they become swing odds. Exactly. Exactly. So I've done a really good job the last year, I think, of sticking to, you know, a very specific routine and I think it's really helped me off the tee. And I would say that's why my handicap has fallen.

It sounds really good. And it sets you up to be more censoring athletic. But when since you talk about the making not so good decision at time, so is it decision making before? How do you do that? Because obviously, before you go into your free-throw routine. Yeah, I think where you're not. Yeah, I think it's decisions around. So we did another show with Mark Liechten's caddy, uh, Maddie Kelly, who lives here in Jacksonville. We went out to our local course and we played the, uh, you know, the forward

tease. And the goal was for me to break par from the forward tease with a professional caddy. And, you know, spoiler alert, I shot four under. And a lot of the reason I shot four under was because he was on the bag. And there was a specific hole. The tent. It was the first number one at Jack's beach, but our 10th and the front bunker was like 205. And I said, he's like, well, that's, you know, five iron. And I said, well, in my head, I always want to like buy a little extra insurance. So I was like, instead of hitting four, I was like, well, let's just hit driving

on. Let's take the bunker out of play. And he was like, no, we're going to hit, we're going to plan for a good shot. And I think that that is something that I still struggle with is that I try to, I see, I get zeroed in on one issue. And that's left over from you a time period where you didn't hit every shot pure. You hit almost every shot pure now. Yeah. And so it's like, I was like, ah, well, if I hit a perfect five iron, I probably carry that bunker by one yard. And well, okay, well, let's just,

let's just club up and then, well, guess what? You hit a good four iron, it's gonna go to 15. And you're gonna be over the green, right? And so I have a bad habit of like taking that first piece of trouble out or getting locked in on that, probably especially when I don't have a caddy to talk through it with. So also, Matty talked me, taking that first piece of trouble out or getting locked in on that, probably, especially when I don't have a caddy to talk through it with.

So also Maddie talked me, obviously we're hitting five iron. Of course I hit it to 10 feet. I made, you know, eagle there. And it was just kind of a wake up call for me of like, you know, and he was like, yeah, you got to plan. He's like, Mark and I always plan to hit a good shot because if you're not doing that, that if you're not starting from the best outcome, you know, or we're going to play away from trouble, but like from a, you know, a yardage standpoint, we have to plan to hit the shot well, right?

And, and if you're absolutely not not have this state of avoidance. Exactly. You're good enough player if you had a 20 handicap of 25, it might be different, but now it's a, you know, whatever one, two, that's really small. So it seems like, is there a chance for you to have a good caddy that you can play a few rounds with to just learn how to talk through decision making differently for yourself? I think, you know, it's, I don't, I think, yeah, I'm trying. Listen, some of these things that Mattie was telling him, I've told him for four years and all of a sudden

He's like, he's like, oh, man. That made a lot of sense conservative targets aggressive. So he's like, I've been telling you that for you normally I'm normally I'm competing against solid and that's the matters who's given you the coaching God, but you know, we did coaching this weekend with an LPJ player and it was really great because Pia just said, you know weekend with an LPJ player and it was really great because Pia just said you know she actually was having a caddy issue and we just said hey it's time for you to like step up and be your own caddy today because like this one isn't doing it you know and I mean you said you're you're very able to coach yourself out there and to even be your own caddy. So I mean, Neil, a little bit, that sounds like, you almost have to have this talk with you. Yeah, and that's where it's like, I'm starting to,

I think that example with Maddie is a perfect one of like, I know, that was a big learning experience for me. It's just, it goes back to what I said at the beginning, it's the consistency. I still once around, like I used to do it all the time where I would say, oh, well, let's hit four iron and, you know, take the trouble out of the way. Now it's, that bad habit still pops up once around

and it's like I need it. Did you sleep in your back nine? Usually in the back nine. Yeah, usually when things are going well. I have a tendency to get. Oh, reaching your limit. Yeah, I get it though. Back to goal setting. But yeah, but just that you have fine tuned new habit for your more pre-shot routine.

Now it's time to just take it the step before that. I mean, you can even write note cart and have in your bag to remember how to think through your shop. But it's just your next step in creating the needle habit of decision making. And even I think if you go and play your home course, nine holes in the evening, whatever, you play some rounds with two decisions on every shot and just keep experimenting what happens. You know, yeah, we're aggressive to maybe, you know, less aggressive or however you want to say that.

But if you say you forget it sometimes, you just need to write it on your hand or glove or in the note cards that I need to look there. And I can't step into my free-flowing routine until I've checked up on it, till it's when you have it. Sure. And I want to address this back to what you said a little while ago or what Sally said even about you, that you sent your goals too low because you know if you've set in your mind you know and you have a belief system that you're only so good I mean the break comes on

and so like I'll never forget we had this conversation with Suzanne Pederson years ago we were on the putting green at Bay Hill and she said you know we said well how low do you think you want to go and she goes like five under right wasn't something like that and and so like a 60 step and so she goes but you know what happens is like I get five under on the front nine and then what do I do she goes I can feel myself just you know I don't have permission to go low 1,000%. Is that massive?

Massive. And it just sounds like there's something going on with that, for sure, with you. A quick break here to check with our friends at RoBac. You've heard us talk a lot about them. It is fall. It is RoBac, SCN, officially. These guys understand quality.

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being so important with this. And it even happened with Anika shooting 59. She started with eight straight birdies. And she said they felt too good to be true. So she was almost relieved getting one part before she got their act together again. But the point is that you know that when you go on the golf course and tee up, I mean the best way we've ever seen it happen to go really low that you decide for yourself like your game within the game. Your game is to win or go low or as slow as possible, but your game within the game that you know, it could be, you know, this one practice swing and get a feel and a target and go, I'm just going to count how many from scale one to ten, how many tens of those I do today. And I'm going to have a game within the game that is more under my

control and you keep all your focus there and allow the birdies to happen. Yeah. So we find all the best players they might not talk about it but they have something they're paying attention to. This is more in the process because you know if you do that fully it's going to allow whatever outcome to be as low as it could be that day. And I have found that that game within a game has helped me I think over the last couple years of like I've made some goals last year like I wanted to have 10 rounds. This is in 2021 without a double bogey, which seems you know like oh that's that should be easy to do but when you're in the round

and it's it's let's say you're, you know, I'm not gonna, it's not gonna be a banner day or my best score. If you're on 14 or 15 and I haven't had a double, it keeps you in the mindset. It keeps me competing instead of like, oh, well, you know, I'm eight over. It's no big deal. It's like, well, no, I haven't had a double yet. So let's stay focused. Let's stay in it. So that, that resonates with me in a big way. That helps you kind of reframe and get and stay on track or get back on track.

Yeah, it's like little wins that keep you, you know, keep me focused. So I think figuring out some other ones and I guess my maybe a way for me to improve that is some of my little wins are a lot are avoiding disasters or, you know, avoiding bad things. I think I tend to, when I'm not playing well or to give you an example off the tee when I'm not striking it well, I'm worried about, instead of thinking, I wanna hit this target, it's saying, okay, don't go there, right?

It's the downside thinking that I think gets me in trouble. It's actually kind of the avoidance. Exactly, exactly. Mindset that you can slip into versus, okay, what is the potential here? And even like Pia said, like going out and practicing that on the golf course and having an aggressive decision and then maybe an avoidance decision just to give it a name, just check out what that's like. Or having, again, a mini goal or a little win game of, you know, how many aggressive decisions can I make today?

Okay. And be like 100% committed to that decision. Yeah. Not, you know, not nine, but like tens. Yeah. And to Loon said, we do this a lot with players because maybe they have avoidance, are they scared at certain shots or whatever. I mean, you can't take that way. The organ feels scared or you're going to feel avoidance but if you know to have a game within the game I'm gonna see how many super strong finishes I can feel. I hold my finish for two seconds and I feel super strong on my body. If you do that it doesn't matter if you have avoidance or scared because it's going to be the committed swing. So you need to find your cues like that, something simple like what I'm doing, but I need to have extra focus and that's strong feeling

it finish, might take you through it. And just, you know, here in the story of going out with Mark Leishman's Cady, it sounds like he provided that like permission and a little bit of go I keep provided that like permission and a little bit of go that you need to say, let's go for it. I do think that, you know, yeah, if I played golf for money, you know, for living, I think a caddy would help me tremendously. I feel like I'm very coachable, right? Like I, you know, you're, you're, I would disagree, but that's fine. Well, but in the right setting, right?

Like, I was thinking, wow, I think he is coachable. He is, he is. But we've got to get past generalizations and down to specific. Well, I think there's a aspect of what he was talking about with the clubbing and the process that he went through on that one shot with Maddie that was a light bulb moment for him. That I've always, something I've realized, and as I go to say it, I don't practice it well enough,

is a good catty will tell you front yardage and flag, because the best place probably to be on approach shot is somewhere between that number, right? And if you anchor yourself, if it's a back pin, if you anchor yourself at 135, you go reach and try to hit the 135 shot, your distribution of where that shot would go might be different if you know, hey, I need to clear 110 and 135 is the furthest I want this to go. Your clubbing

might be very different, right? It's understanding where your dispersion is going to end up as I think an issue for you. You see flag number. I'm going to hit an easy, you almost always go for more club to hit one easy, which I think has worked well for you, but understanding where you can't hit it, and that kind of process is hard, I think, to channel in normal golf, right? When you're just out there playing, you don't get a pinch sheet every round, you don't know exactly how far,

you know, where that dispersion properly is, because everyone just wants to go out and make birdies. And I think that's kind of a thing that you struggle with. Yeah, and, but, sorry, I would say you've helped me with that. It is now ingrained in me. It's a habit. Anytime I use my rangefinder,

I'm looking for the front bunker. And if I have a caddy, you know, if I'm playing out at a nice course or at a resort or whatever, I say they usually give you the pin and I say what's the front bunker? So it's like, that's, I think I'm picking some of these things up,

but it's just, again, it's consistency. So it goes I'm picking some of these things up, but it's just it's again, it's consistency. So it goes back to the routine and I guess Lennon Pia, a question for you on I have feel like I have my free-throw routine with like physically. Do you have anything like from a dis almost like a decision tree like an example of how someone thinks through a t-shot or an approach shot. thanks through a T-shot or an approach shot? Yeah, and we say it's still so individual for players, but that's why we wanted to be with you when you feel you're doing it good or with the cadet that helps you do it good

and help you capture what you're best way of doing it. Because like if you have a cadet that you trust, we'd be curious about like how do you feel in the body? Do you feel like stronger and more like you know strong body language than if you're by yourself and doubting things or if you've voiced yourself different, we would just help you because you want to create that not only good state for the actual swing but a good state to trust your decision. So when you have a cat of course he will give you some numbers or whatever but something

happens to you that you really trust it. Yes. And that you need to learn to do by yourself. So normally, like what you are just you get and all of those things, you need to figure out, but then it's super important in the state you have, with your voice, with your body languages, how you feel about it, so your gut can really trust it. Because in gov to, even though all the numbers are the language, how you feel about it, so you got to can really trust it. Because in growth too, there, even though all the numbers are the same, use of human being, I'm going to be different

because of what you ate and how you slept and how you worked out, you know, how much you worked out if you saw. So you want to create this habit of, this is the numbers I want, this is how I talked to myself, this is, then you're checking what you got because some days you got this going to tell you you know what? I need to have a club more today because I'm sluggish or you're you're drennal in this flowing because you're doing so well you need to club down a little bit. So you want to create the habit of always listening into that because you're the one that need to trust it. But something happens to you when you had that caddy that made you trust it more. And we call that something happen, we call that you get some specific ghost signal.

It's like Neil's ghost signal. And only you know it. There's no way we would know it. But to get more hold of that and that the free throw routine, as you call it, you know, you pre-shut routine, you think box actions actually lead to that ghost signal. But we need something before we make the decisions. The decision make is something you feel you can trust with all of you. The permission thing is enormous though. I mean, if Suzanne Pederson is dealing with bumping up against the wall for how low she

feels like she can go, it's super easy to sit here and say like, hey, when I get to 400 today, I'm going to keep going. I'm going to keep trying to make birdies. But when you get in that situation, no matter how many times you get there, there is kind of like, oh, man, I really got it going today. I hope I still break par with just. How you do it is that you know you made the birdies, but you base it more on getting my facts, I'm getting the go signals, I'm staying with my routine and you realize that's the most important game. So you want the birdies, but you have to have more focus on what makes the birdies happen. So and I think there's another piece of that I need improvement on it.

It's been an issue since I played, you know, basketball is a middle schooler. I'm very hard on myself. And I think you touched on something. When I have a caddy, I think it's easier for me not to beat myself up because there's almost someone around. So it's like, hey, stop vlogging yourself. Like I don't want to be a bad company on the golf course. So even with a caddy, you're like, I'm going to,

you know, it helps me stay a little more positive. We wear a lot of microphones on the golf course when we play on camera. Those microphones have picked up a lot of self-talk that I was like, wow, man, you are here. I had a suspicion early on in our conversation that we're gonna get to what is your post shot reactions and if you get really internal with them.

Very. It's not even that negative. But I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, go, go. And there's, there's not that kind of acceptance of like, hey, this is, you know, back towards the mean or whatever it would be. Yeah. And I, I need to know, like, yes, golf is not a game of perfect. It's, it's just, uh, you know, I react when I, especially when I, um, and I think this comes with the downside thinking or the avoidance when I hit the shot that I was dreading.

That's when you get the biggest reaction out of me. It's like, I was doing everything not to hit it there, and I just hit it there. I don't handle that well. And so that's, you know, but on the flip side, I think something, and I would love your kind of view on this, is that I am a bit of a microwave man, and that works both ways.

Like I can really get going, and I can feed off momentum and I think that can really serve you on the golf course. But then that plays both ways. I can really let it spin out of control, you know, on the other side of that. So it can be very good and I'm very streaky because of that mentally.

And so that shows itself most on the putting green. I find that I'm either putting really well or really poorly if that makes sense like the rest of my games a little more consistent, but I just I find and some of this is I need to really work on a routine on the greens. I'm a little less you know free throw oriented on putting, but I think the putting is really where the mental stuff comes in like I'll let a bad lag put you're like oh man it's going to be one like I'll let a bad lag put you like oh man It's gonna be one of these days. You know, it's like immediately like oh, you know don't have it today and that's just you know That's not gonna get it done that's not good

But it sounds you know, honestly, it sounds a little bit more emotional than mental and I'll just hit this so like most golfers we meet in coach are neutral to somewhat degrading themselves. Okay. So they play at neutral and then some level of the downward spiral. And what we think like to bring out your potentials, and this is all tied to, you know, what we know about emotional management, what happens in the brain, blah, blah, blah. But you wanna go from neutral to some wrong of the upward spiral. Okay. So, you know, like you mess up that lag pot

and you go, okay, so I learned something. You close the door, that would be neutral and you learn something. And then when you do have a good pot, you take it in, like you emotionalize it. So you get a good memory. But you, you know, you start to say, okay, today no matter what, I'm going to come off the golf course, having been neutral or some form of positive on every post-shot reaction or every memory boxes

we like to call it. Okay. That could be again another little mini goal or little win that you could, I think, just talking like now, could reap big benefits. Yes. And the reason it, because it will give you two things, it will save a lot of energy so you can actually be focused for every shot, for 18 holes, because you're not wasting it with that. And also you're going to, that's how you create memories when we really get emotional

about stuff. So you, you're going to not store as many bad memories that way. But the first step is often like Glenn mentioned there, when you put the new like put the short that you just need to train yourself. You know what? It's short and you know the green is more you know wet or moist or it was more uphill than I knew or whatever. Just say something. You don't have to be happy, but just state something. You're saying. Take in the information.

Or then, we're at take it in. And then we need to close the door, because you are a competitor. You need to get the break to the next shot. I think a great example, because on that lag put example, a lot of times, I'll blow at six feet by, for instance. Instead of taking in the information on what the putt does after the whole, you're mad. I'm getting emotional. I'm getting mad. It is like, of taking in the information on like what the putt does after the whole yeah yeah I'm getting emotional you know I'm getting mad it's like I just lost the information exactly I lost the information I know so you need to if you want to be scratch and better you need

to like just get the whole of this one okay there's no reason not to learn it's just decide you know what I'm gonna start with only saying something objective after this Just to learn how to do it Well, that what something that I find fascinating about golf is you hit a bad first lag putt You're your talent level before you hit that putt was right here And when you go to hit the next shot it is not it's it's it's it's not moved right yet We all have a tendency to either you know art We oh get over confident with our talent the more good shots You hit and if you hit a bad one and all of a sudden it's like well the rest of my day is probably trending this direction

Right, whereas I something I wanted to selflessly pick your brains on what this is I'm a I'm a weirdly good Pop a shot player like a bar game at basketball like you I can I can attest to you shoot as fast as possible Whatever I'm weirdly good, but if I missed three shots in a row, my mental, I would actually improve mentally, because I'd be like, okay, let's go faster. Let's get hot, let's go, let's really go get it. Yet in golf, if I make three straight bogies, my mind does not go towards like,

hey, or now the challenge is there, like you're still really good, go get it, go get it, go come get it, come come come come get it And I'm wondering why that is with golf. I feel like you I mean I feel like everyone kind of deals with that like the you know you make a bogey Everyone's gonna make a bogey, but how do you say? How do you flip into like now? I go on even more offense after that Well, I'm curious about so when you make the bogeys in golf Do you start thinking more?

Or what you talked about in the bar, you just let go and you totally instinct, just slated the ability, there's no thinking, you're just doing it. But how could you do more of that thing off or how was your actions? I try. I literally think, when I make three-shot bogus, I think pop a that thing off or how is your ex? I try I literally think when I make three-shade bogus I think pop a shot like well how do I go like you know you are talented convinced yourself you're talented

It's just it's harder to change my my issue there and I think the difference is you can get with golf You try to get it all back You press right and I'll do this to like oh, you know, let's There's a different hard. Yeah, you try you start trying and then you start pressing to make birdies. And you don't let them come to you. And I think with the pop a shot example, you can get the instant feedback. You can get on a roll so quickly. Yeah.

And the problem golf is it takes, it's going to take 30 minutes. It's going to take two holes to get like any momentum. First to get rid of all the bad stuff. And then like basically stop the bleeding and then you can go on a run and we don't I can't space I need the immediate you know the immediate juice I got to get it back now. So so here's the deal we actually do a version of pop a shot to have people investigate how they feel trust so we they can do this putting, or that we actually haven't do it, probably like throwing range balls into a basket.

So they start super close where they can't miss, right? And we just tell them, stay aware, like as you just toss the ball into the basket, you know, what that's what's going on. And then move further back and throw it into the basket and move further back and throw it in the basket. And then just start to notice, this is all about self-awareness. Just start to notice when something starts to change.

So you might pop a shot and it still goes in the basket, but it wasn't quite as confident as that one really cooks. And just see if you can notice why, not really why, but how your trust changed. Did you get tight in your shoulders? Did you start to hold your breath? Did your eyes get faster? Did you change the look at where you were looking on the basket or whatever?

And then go back up to where you have a 100% trust and pop the shots in. And again, just get to know yourself when you have a 100% trust. And it's been amazing when players do this, and it's really cool when you have a 100% trust. And it's been amazing when players do this, and it's really cool when they do it and putting too. They go, I know what it is, and all I need to do

is go back to what it is when I can't miss range. So it's got to go to, again, a more specific internal awareness, so then you can repeat it. So it very often happens when we see golfers on the golf course, when they have the, you know, bogus or double bogus that, you know, they start trying harder, getting tighter, and they think more. So it often works when we tell them, okay, you can, you need to be steady, I mean, not

steady. You need to be dynamic, waggle, go. You can never stop so much faster process. And many can then ease you get it back. I mean, the typical thing we see with so many gophers, if you think it one drive out of bounds and they right away retie another one, it's very often a much very shot. Sure. Or if they have a shot over water that dumped in the water and they just take another ball and they hit the good shots. I said, why is it so easy on that second shot?

Many times the whole process is so much more simple. And so it seems like Chris, for you, that you're doing things differently in the bar and on the golf course and golf course, like you said, nearly so different, because we have time between shots and different shots. But you can still learn from it that seems to be you need to do more simple after the bogus.

And yeah, the hard yeah, just trying to convince yourself you don't, you don't all of a sudden stink at golf because you made a couple of bad holes. Like you're still the same player, right? So how do you channel that? That's the whole thing to me about golf is like how do you, you know, always convince yourself that you have the talent because we all go through peaks, valleys and confidence and swing fields like you just. Yeah, and I would just say this. I mean again, you could ask yourself, okay, just as you said, after a couple of bad, after a couple of bogies, you can still trust yourself. Like, trust never leaves you. You just get in its way.

And you can ask yourself, like, right now on the golf course, what could I do where I could feel more trust? And just notice what your answer, how you answer yourself, you know, what your answer is to yourself. Because it could just be, hey,bud, relax. You know, I don't know, but you know, trust is always there. It's just we get in the way of it. And that's again why that popper shot drill can be a really cool thing for people discover. And this is, you know, one thing that is much easier when we see you playing on the golf course, but yeah, everybody has usually one tendency that happens when we lose the trust or when we just lose our game. Like for me, I know it is that I I just get I get too fast. Yeah, I can attest. I know my first go-to when that happens, I need to

take a breath and go to a little 70% tempo swing. And Lynn, obviously, when you lose it, you just the complete opposite. I go slow and I get a little more perfectionist about my setup, you know, and I get a little more internal. That's so external with the target. You know, I'm trying to make sure everything's all like perfect before I hit a, you know, make a swing and make sure that a sure. And my grip pressure gets tight. So we need to be brutally honest like because all of us have it, but we, when we see golfers miss up on the golf course, sometimes we say this is the best thing that can happen

because we need to fast track you learning on how you get in your way. So this is going to happen. That's really interesting. If you can catch that sooner and know like one really important thing, you can get it back so much faster. That's like definitely resonating with me because I have when I'm playing, well, I have some like positive triggers, right? Like we're talking about like, oh, you know, you get a feel and it's like, okay, just keep doing that.

You can't miss. And you're now you're almost talking about you guys notice negative triggers with both in yourselves and who you coach. What you guys notice negative triggers with both in yourselves and who you coach. What are some other negative triggers you've seen with people you've coached? Like, things that go with out. Well, the most common one is getting tight. Okay. Or tempo changing often to faster for most golfers.

And some make that they just, they rush it. They don't make a clear decision where they're going to go. Yeah. And you know, for some it could be technical, they have a tendency to start aiming to the right to left, the ball position gets off, but it's always includes these other non-technical things too. And you need to get a hold of it. So if you were going to get snail for you, what do you think it is? Well, that's what I'm trying to think about. It's, I think, a really good exercise for me to go and be more aware of it. It's just, yeah. It's almost like the negative information impacts me more, but I don't know like what the,

yeah, it's almost like, if I can identify it, oh, look out for this. I think that would really help me. Whereas the positive, when things are going really well, I don't cherish it, I guess, or I don't to internalize it as much, but there's some, but I also can identify triggers of like when things are going well, I know, like I go back to them every hole, you know, when I'm on a roll. So trying to figure out how to break the cycle on the negative side probably starts with like identifying the warning signs a little bit of like what am I going to do? Yeah.

What do you think is the first thing that happens to him when he like he's, you know, starts to lose it a little bit. I was just going to say for using it in terms that I've learned from you guys like the 401 level class, like the expert level stuff in terms of the right side of the brain and channeling his basic raw athletic ability on the golf course, like Niels at Ace at that. When he's vibing, there's not a lot of swing thoughts. He is in total flow state. He is channels the exact competitive ball striking golfer

that I would want to be, right? But the left side is where he gets in his way with the decision making. And I've said this to him, I think it's like he really needs to start thinking like a scratch call for. He's just, oh, he's satisfied with shots that he shouldn't be because he is expectation for himself should be just a little bit higher. That doesn't mean flogging yourself after a bad one, but it's just like, hey, this is going to go right here. I know it's going to go

right here because I'm a really good player. He almost doesn't allow himself to trust that he is that good of a player. I mean, there's there's a saying that we'll only perform at the level that our nervous system is prepared for. And so a lot of people I prepare for a 73 instead of preparing themselves for a 69. And that's why the 54 is always a good conversation with us, because, you know, with both Russell and Anaco and they shot 59, like that was good enough. But if you're conchute 59, you know, of course you conchute 56, you conchute 54. But I was also curious what you said there

that with getting a whole of that not 54, that we call it for you, the main thing that gets in your own way. Because things are so athletic and so good. I would be interested when you feel you lose it, that you just between short, juggle your toss a ball or you start throwing a ball at something just to get a whole of your athleticism again. With more than an action. And to be in your body and not up in your head. Yeah.

But do something that you know requires you to be athletic. Yeah. And test if that doesn't help you get back into that athletic state again. I think now I'm trying to think about like when I'm not, for instance, I think it's easier to focus on putting it's a little more controlled. And another one of our partners, DJ's, pointed this out to me when I'm not putting well, it looks like I'm playing putting stroke, right?

It doesn't look and I've, you know, solid has brought up like Brad Faxon has the continuous motion with the putting that's really helped me of like, okay, I need to get back to being more athletic when I put. And so when I'm not, when things aren't going well probably on the T2 It's like I'm getting a little more technical I'm going to swing thoughts, but it's this really interesting balance between The what I think is holding me back from you know going lower and playing better is that I make the it's like you have to

You have to be very focused on the decision making up until I pick the club and then now we're in our free-throw routine Right, so it's this interesting balance of like I got a box playbox. I gotta get I gotta get the thinking I do have to focus on the thinking but it has to stop at a certain point and so I know we're not on video, but like you have got to have a decision line You know, I mean it's got to be for every shot. Okay. And it's in the Eastern, it's the beauty of golf like every shot. You want to be able to go through your best process for this every shot.

And you're going to need it for as long as you play golf. But for you still like to find that way to more having trust in your decision making and having the caddyskills inside of you, you need to get that. Sure. But then, you know, after the shot is both and putting to be more objective, but then after that, do something that gets you back to being athletic. Yeah. Well, and it's easy to like, just like thinking, you know, if we go to the third hole at Jack's beach, a shortage part four trees on both sides. You can stand on that T and think, all right, left is probably bogey. If I go way right, that's probably bogey. If I hit the left side of the fairway,

blah, blah, blah. And you have to, it's, I hate the one shot at a time stuff, but you have to just say like, no, I have to hit the fairway right now. Like that is what, that's what my goal is right now. I cannot hit my fourth shot from the T. I cannot think past this shot. You have to focus on that one, do it. And when you get to the next one, try to get the most out of the next one. Like that, where when things are going poorly for me, I'm almost thinking backwards. And like, man, if I miss the fairway here, I'm in trouble. Like, I'm going to not be able to make par.

And I'm not trying to, you know, excel on every shot that I'm hitting almost. Yeah. That's the avoidance thinking, which is, which I think you can get. That can be the downward spiral that you two were talking about of like, and that's when I start to get mental or into the thinking mode over the ball, it's after a couple of bogies, right? Or, oh man, I've got the left today.

Like, we gotta, you know, so it's like, you gotta focus on that before the pre-shot routine. So, I'm gonna be, I'm definitely gonna be thinking about one, looking out for almost like the negative triggers, you know, what are my, like, let's get away from those. And I love the pop-a-shot, like, just get a ball out and start tossing it around.

I think that anything that can help me be more, think more athletically. Yes. And having awareness of that athletic system. Yes. And remember, you don't want to think athletic, and you want to be, yeah. Or be, yeah, exactly. Just. Yeah, and remember, you don't want to think it's like you want to be. Or be exactly. Just get more just sensory against.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Because the only way you're going to go really low is it's not going to be those days with everything goes great. It's the days when you're going to catch yourself with that. Sure. Not good things happen, but you catch yourself. So you're backed by the next shot. Yeah. You know, that's, that's the, yeah. A word that hasn't really come up today that I think drives a lot of this stuff is target,

right? And when the best golf is being played, I think for anyone, they can look at a spot where they want it to hit. And I can't tell you exactly why my swing is executed in this way, but I know it's going towards that target, right? And that, there's a subconscious layer to that, right? And you guys teach that stuff about right brain and understanding how the importance of being target focused

and how that can affect your play. Oh, yeah. I mean, anything in life. If I even walk through the door, I need to be target focused. If I eat, I need to be target focused. So it's sort of life, we're going to go somewhere. And so, yes, we need to think of. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, but you know, just to that point, I just want to say again, like, you know, the research on internal external and so forth, but it would be interesting, you know, Neil and tell you as well, if you do the poppishize, just notice, again, like if your stress starts to, you know, diminish, it's not like 100%. Have you gone more internal? Have you lost some of that external connection to the target? And just notice, okay, okay,

now what if I were to get external again and be able to write that chip very quickly, like on the next throw or the next pod or the next shot? A few years ago, when we were supporting Mike Weir, he just realized that it's like, we're not playing my best. I had like 80% target connection, extra 20% feeling something swing, but I played some years now with it reversed. And it doesn't work. So it's that will be really good to check up on. That's where I'm at currently. The last question I have, or it doesn't work. Yeah. So it's that will be really good to check up on. Yeah. That's where I'm at currently.

The last question I have, or it's around some of the goal stuff, which I've struggled with, I think, in the past of like, in golf specifically, I'm a little better at like, let's set a big goal and, you know, it's the classic third. You could go in on Asia's goal, like climbing mountain in here. Yeah, it's like, I can, you know, you shoot for the moon. If you miss, you land among the stars. Classic third grade, you know, motivation, right? But with golf, it's a little bit, I struggle with maybe

in posture syndrome, maybe, you know, it's almost like you have to, you know, I don't want to say lie to yourself, but, you know, fake it till you make it, right? And, and I, so that's where a little bit when I, when I do, when I am four under on the ninth tee at the old course, and then you end up shooting 75, you know, it's a little bit like, you know, are you, are you, I need to sometimes see the ball go through the hoop to believe it if that makes sense. So when you get to that point, it's like, you know,

I, do you have, I don't know if there's a question there, I'm more than just like, I know I'm going to struggle with that. Well, you know, we often talk about that with, with goals for, for players because everybody is so unique with that, but, you know, there's one part that is more like visioning, like every day you can dream about shooting or 65s and see yourself play. And you, you just get this strong inside of you. Like I can just replay myself

playing terrific and shooting those scores and the more you do that, it's going to help. But then you can set your goals. Like by the end of the year, I won't have scratch-handicap or whatever this padding stat or whatever outcome goals it could be. But then you need to break it down. What is under your control with that? And when you place Santander's and you're four hundred after nine and then lose it on the back side some are more curious about did you change what you focused on? So you need to, your goals need to land in, it could be like I'm going to be objective after every pub today and say something like that. Or objective or positive.

Yeah. And I'm going to feed that trust in my gut before stepping into every full shot. That you have decided something you're taking action on because you need that those days when you're 400 after nine holes to help you on the backside. Because if it's just gets up there, I could shoot really low. You lose being focused for the shots. Yes. So it's almost like you have the big aspirational goal, but then you almost have these continuous goals of like,

I'm, right? Like, okay, this is something I can do on every shot. I have this within my control. A quick story on that. I had the fall of 19. I shot a 31 on the front nine in my local course, and I flipped over and shot 41 on the back. I shot a 31 on the front nine in my local course, and I flipped over and shot 41 on the back.

It was a total collapse. And that winter, I read, be a player. And the next time I was, I shot a 31 on the front nine, a friend of mine was on the putting green. And he wasn't even, wasn't even playing with us, I said, I'm gonna go get you four more. This is what I said to him. I was like, I'm gonna go get four more birdies on the back.

He had no idea what I was talking about, but I was trying to will it into existence to say, like, I'm gonna go, this is what I'm gonna go do. And I got three more on the back nine. Didn't quite make it, but lowest round ever. And look, I can't, I haven't been able to channel that sense, but there was a total mindset change of like, I just shot five under.

Like, why would I not believe that I can go do it again? The only thing that would get in the way of that would be to, like that's where, yeah, you have not shot a 64 before, but you shot a 32 on the front nine at the old course. Like you literally just did it. You can do a 32 again, yet your mind wants to go to like, let's make sure I break 40, so I break par, and that's where it's so easy to say sitting here,

but how do you channel that in the moment is like the name of the entire game? And it's so funny how say sitting here, but how do you channel that in the moment is like the name of the entire and it's so funny How nine holes is like that is a amount of holes where I can do it. It's that 18 is where it starts to get That's what I'm saying. You just get it. I know how do you how do you convince? It's all just convincing yourself It's like it's the permission. It's it is reframing things. I mean, you know, some players have done well with the three whole matches. Six whole matches. Or three six whole matches.

Six three whole matches. Whatever it is. Whatever, how do you want to compartmentalize it? But, you know, so you're always having to, you know, okay, here we go again, new match. Yeah, new mindset. Yeah. Wow, so I'm curious.

So from the things we said so far, what are you going to promise to take action on? I think the mindset stuff for sure just being I think it starts with a conscious effort to be aware of how I'm you know, am I taking in the bad information in a productive way? And am I aware of like what what what go you know really kind of reflect and then also next time I play think about think through like what's what are we doing differently here you know to break out of that downward spiral spiral I think and then I would like to it's the evidence is there of the free-throw routine working on the physical side of golf for me what can I do on the mental side pre-shot to think through stuff to to make, to come

to a better decision, something that I can, like, a process, what I'm going to do, you know, what's my, and I got it, you know, I need to figure this out, but like, okay, where's, is it, where's the trouble, what's the yardage, you know, what club, like, how do I want to process that decision-making? I need to probably standardize that a little bit better. So those two things for sure. And listen into the gut. Like, trust this today, the way I feel right now. Yeah, that's absolutely you need to add that.

That's awesome. And Neil and Chris as well, we want to send to an action guide that we've created from being a player. I would love that. I would love that. Because I really enjoyed the book too. So lots of exercises in there for you to do. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. And yes, I need to go out and practice too.

But that's. Yeah, you do. But these things you can learn while you go and play too. And just after the rounds just draw the learnings from it. Yeah. Because that, you know, said earlier with the wedge proximity, I mean, that's just about, you know, you can check technically what's there, but you just need to set up more distance wedge training and get some real. Well, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, conversations like it's unbelievable because the last three or four months, I, I'm truly hitting

the ball the best I ever have, but that hasn't translated into the best I've ever scored, if that makes sense. It's like, it's not, this is not a physical problem. Like, yeah, there's improvements on my game. Of course, I could, you know, I could hit approaches better. I could put better, but it's, it's not, that is not what's holding me back. Like, I'm very, like, I'm, that's what's almost the most frustrating about it is like, man, you are just not like you haven't tapped out your current

like level of golf potential before you go and, you know, grind on it exclusively pouring parts. Yeah, pouring parts is the route to low. Yeah, let's say Neil, you're super aware and honest about your game. So talking to you like this, we can make sense of it. But many others will ask, they don't know. So when we go and watch them play,

we see things that haven't even thought about for this process of playing. But you've been really, really. Well, we get to watch, we get to go play, fail, and then watch it publicly on YouTube. So I've got, I've seen, I've been in the film room a lot with myself of like, man, you got it. Like, it makes you, and it's good. It's like in college football, when you watch the

game film, right? It's like, okay, I'm, you know, it's hard not to learn from. It's very easy to put it out of your mind when it's, you know, you had a bad round, but then when it gets replayed, you three months later, you're like, oh, okay, well, let's try to get something out of this. It is hard to play on camera yet. It's way easier to learn from watching yourself on camera. For sure. So that is a help we do have. So listen, we've taken up a lot of your guys time. We greatly, greatly appreciate this was exactly what I was hoping for.

It's very much for you. So this was awesome. And congratulations on all your success and your commercial and the Schwab Golf Challenger video and all that. It's fantastic to see. So we'll stay in better contact with you since the last time we spoke, but thank you so much for your time and efforts in the help today. I'm sure listeners will love it. Thanks. Thanks to both of you. And we'll send that be a player action guide out to you guys. We will put it in action. So thanks. Cheers.

Cheers. Bye. Cheers. Get the right club. Be the right club today. Yes. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. I'm gonna go for it.

I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it.

I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it.

I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it.

I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it.