No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 609: Trevor Immelman

Episode Date: October 6, 2022

On the heels of the 2022 Presidents Cup, Trevor Immelman returns to the pod with some reflections on his time as captain of the International Team.  Trevor offers some great insights into his decision making process before and during the week in Charlotte, his belief in the future of the event, what data analysis shows ultimately made the difference in the final outcome, how the team rallied from an 8-2 deficit on Saturday and a ton more.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sully here got a wonderful interview coming shortly with Trevor M.M.M.N.V. captain of the International Presidents Cup team. We chatted with him prior to the Presidents Cup in our preview episode. I didn't want to give away too many secrets, but thought it'd be fun to do a after the fact.

Look back at the week. He's had some comments about not wanting to change the president's cup despite feedback from some fans. On that, he addresses that directly. We talk about that. We talk about C. Wukim, Tom Kim, Sungjae, the whole team. It was delightful chat.

We greatly appreciate all of Trevor's transparency through this entire process. It's a great insight into how the international team is functioning currently and will be functioning into the future. So this episode is brought to you by our friends at Rowback. You all know Rowback. We know Rowback. These guys understand quality. There's only one way to describe Rowback. It's best fit, best feel. Their performance polos, they fit so much better than your typical boxy polos. They just sent a whole new box of stuff to us, including their joggers, which are fantastic. Why not? Probably doesn't surprise you.

They went through over 20 iterations of the collar alone on those performance polos to ensure it doesn't get in the way of your golf swing. Second, the performance QZips game changer. I'm wearing one right now. You'll see that in the teaser video for this episode. If you saw it on social media, I got a great new tan with a white zipper. They sent me nothing beats around a fall golf in a rowback QZip. And lastly, the performance hoodies, stretchy as soft as hoodies and golf, nothing beats

starting your day in a rowback hoodie. I can barely take, I can't take them off. I've been, I've been wearing the hoodies way too much. I'm glad they sent me some QZIPs to kind of mix in there because I'm being way too reliant on it. They're gaining traction. Bigtime, you can use code NLU at rowback.com for a generous 20% off your first order. That's R H O B A C K dot com 20% off polos, Q Zips hoodies and more with code NLU. You can get those joggers as well.

Without any further delay, here is Trevor Emelman. All right, we gave everyone a grade for the president's cup every player in both captains. We even asked Max Homa Sunday night on the show. What grade he would give himself for the 2022 president's cup. He answered, he gave himself an A. I gave him a B plus. I'm a little tougher, tough grader. What grade would you give yourself for the 2022 president's cup? Oh, I don't know. I've always been pretty tough on myself.

It's one of the things I think at times held me back. You know, I probably give myself a B plus, I would say. I think I gave you an A minus. It was it was close to an A. I think A minus with, uh, I don't even know exactly what it would be, but, uh, and, and this is the, the, the fun part is you get the benefit of hindsight. So what would you have done differently as you sit here? Was there anything you woke up with Monday and said, gosh, I wish I'd have just done

that. Even with the benefit of hindsight, I know how hard it is making. And I want to talk about decision making process as well, the benefit of hindsight, I know how hard it is making. And I want to talk about decision-making process as well. But benefit of hindsight, anything come to mind. You know, I got to say, Sully, I don't really think I would have changed much. I give myself a B plus just because we lost. We had a long time because of the extra year due to COVID to think about how we wanted things to go. And I had an amazing support team and assistant captains. And we had thought through a lot of the decisions we were going to make and how we wanted to run the week.

And all of that pretty much went to plan. We just got outputtered on the first couple days. When you look at the data, I mean, they really crushed us on the greens. We actually got them Stro strokes gained T2 green, but then there was such a huge difference. When you look at putting, we were plus five on the weak putting and they were plus 28.7.

So, just goes to show how they really did crush us around the greens and really they played holes three through six so well. And we actually played the first couple holes quite well, but three through six, they. And we actually played the first couple of holes quite well, but three through six they really got on top of us and were able to take a lead going to the back nine. And then we were able to close some things back and take some matches down to 18,

but in the end they were just too tough. When you look at that team on paper, Shucks, they sure are impressive. You know, you go back to a few riders cups ago, I said on live from that I thought that for the next decade, the US would be extremely tough to beat. They have so many natural pairings, great friendships. You know, you look at Shoffley Cantley, look at Shephler Burns, you look at Spieth and Thomas. You know, you can really roll those out in any match.

And then you got the likes of home, a female, a morocow, a guy's like that, just kind of rambling around there that you compare anybody with. Great personalities, unbelievable golfers. They're in a great spot. So yeah, the B-plus goes because we've got our butts kicked the rest. I got to say I was I was quite happy with. I'm going to push back on getting your butts kicked because I mean, I was there was a definite moment when Zander hit it in the water on 15 and singles. There was a moment that looked like you guys had a very, very legitimate shot, extremely legitimate, even though the probabilities were saying, you know, US has still got this.

It was all of a sudden, you know, the phenol mat at the phenol pendreth match flips and the zander match flips. It is a different, different tournament. So the unit through this lens, I think, listen, you guys did not win the cup. You wanted to win the cup. That's the goal, but considering all you guys went through this past year with, with COVID and live and everything that's happened, playing on opposing soil against this US team that you mentioned is extremely strong. Can you consider, or do you consider the 2022 Presidents Cup a success for the international team? Yeah, I do.

Q the haters on social media. I'm going to get totally agree with you. I would definitely say success. I'm going to get beat up on that one, but I do and I'll tell you why, because I think we moved the ball forward with regards to the international team and trying to build a sporting franchise here with the shield and allowing people to understand what the shield stands for, what our team stands for, bringing players from seven different countries together united under the shield and really playing some inspired golf. We're still very young team, we were younger than the Americans

on average age by year. We were extremely young down in Australia as well. So I do think that we can view it as a success and we can keep learning, keep making the adjustments we need to make so that we can be ready for Canada in a couple of years' time. So I do. I do see it positively. I've had a number of players, caddies, agents, assistant captains over the last week or so reach out and tell me their thoughts on how they thought the week went, how pumped they are about it, how they wish we could play another one soon. They thoroughly enjoyed the week. And I think, you know, people are slowly but surely starting to buy into this team and what they stand for. So, I see it as a success due to that.

You know, I said a while back, I'm kind of viewing this as playing the long game. And us eventually winning this thing again, you know, it's been a long drought since 98. And we had the tie in 2003. We've had a whole host of close calls. I mean, really, when you look at the history of the president's cup, and particularly the last few, there's been a few close ones, man. Korea was one point.

In Liberty National in New York, we got beat out. Melbourne in 2011 was 1915, Mirfield in 2013 was 18 and a half, 15 and a half. So there's been a lot of close calls and actually you could argue a lot closer than some of the later rider cups. We had the close one in Medina when Americans coughed it up there on the Sunday and the Europeans came from four points behind

But you look at the last few right of cups Paris the 17 and a half 10 and a half. It's not very close Hazel teen was 17 11 to the Americans. That's not very close whistling straights Europeans didn't even get to double digits So you know, you could even make an argument for the fact that the last few presidents cups have been more closely contested than the last few right of cups. So we take the long-term view. We love this event. We love this event, Sully. I don't know how else to tell you. That's why it gets under our skin when people call for changes, they call, they say that the event is a waste of time, nobody wants to watch it. You've got to have a thick skin if you're pro-ethically,

everybody knows that. But still, at times, things get to you. It's tough when you hear people say that, because there's a lot of people all around the world that love the event. I believe that if we keep telling the story, we'll inspire kids from all around the world to look at this event and want to play. And really that's what it's all about. And I think that's why we take the long-term view and we look forward to the day when we finally get across the line. But I have to go back, I'm talking a lot here, but we have to go back to that damn 15th hole and you mentioned it. Gosh, I'm a member at Coil Hollow, I'm a proud member of Coil Hollow. I love the course, I love the members, I love everything about it Quail Hollow. I'm a proud member of Quail Hollow.

I love the course, I love the members, I love everything about it. The Harris family are amazing. I've got a lot of great memories there, but I have to speak to the greenkeeper about getting some of the rocks taken out of that stream to the left of the 15th green, because I think I saw four or five American balls

land in the stream and kick out, and then they found a way to tie the hole or win the hole. Gosh, it was tough to keep a straight face when I saw that was happening. So they had a bit of fortune on their side on that hole and they took advantage of it like the great players they are. Well, it's gonna say the last thing you guys needed was this American team getting good breaks and it was very, it was, you know, I'm prudent for the Americans And it was very, it was, you know, I'm rooting for the Americans. It was very obvious. A couple of the decades drive hitting the volunteer and the balls bouncing out. It was just very much like a, oh, man, that's a, that's a lot to throw it. I was planning to kind of save this part of the conversation for later, but

you brought it up about, you know, reaction to, to changing the president's cup. And it's something I've had to like balance my thinking in right. And I, I, I ask the kind of you, the question and kind of make my point as well as we asked Hunter Mayhan, he was on the show Friday night about changing it and he was very quick answer and no. And you know, Max home is a good friend of ours. And if we change this to a mixed format with top six men, top six women, Max home is probably not on this team, right? So I got a view of it through that lens as well. And understanding exactly where you're coming from and what you have dedicated a non-significant amount of your life towards is this event and this team

and working towards it. Yet I think I represent in some way, not all golf fans, but golf fans in general, right? So the question becomes, is this event about the players? I have absolutely zero doubt. I love hearing. I guess my appreciation for the president's cup is increased due to the hearing about the experiences you guys have hearing how much it means to you, hearing how much, you know, seeing the footage in the team room, like that is just you will never find that. If the biggest stroke play event that you play, you'll just never see that. And I appreciate that about it.

At the same time, I guess I'm open to and maybe have even been a principle and suggesting changes to the format over the years because I want to see the most entertaining golf product possible, right? So I wanted to have that conversation with you to say, gosh, I can't like disagree at all. I, if you know, your testimony to how much you enjoy this event and, and you do it for the love of the game and not, not the dollar signs attached to it.

So it's hard for me to sit here and say, you're wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong. You have to change it. I just think it is, I'm wondering out loud if there is a way to, you know, if fans are saying, and it might be a small population of fans saying, would this should change, you know, if fans are saying, and it might be a small population of fans saying, would this should change, you know, is that does that have any, any footing in the argument in your mind? No, it doesn't. It rarely doesn't. You know, I think you and I can agree on a

lot of things regarding the fact that at the end of the day, golf fans around the world are looking, they love the game and they're looking for entertainment. And that's why they tune in, week in and week out. And it's nice to get a team event and have match plays, a different format. We don't see that very often. And so it's all about the entertainment value. I do believe that last week brought great entertainment. I do believe that Royal Melbourne brought incredible entertainment from a standpoint of being privileged enough to see one of the greatest golf courses ever designed on TV for four days straight, even though Americans were getting up at all hours to have to watch that. But still to be

able to see Royal Melbourne is like seeing a place like Cyprus Point or Pebble Beach or Augusta National. That is entertainment. The International's held the lead until Sunday. So that had people on the edge of their seats where we're going to be able to finally get across the line. We weren't, but still it was close right down to the wire. So I do believe that the President's Cup has brought great entertainment over the last decade or so, even if you look at Liberty National, what is setting right there, the Americans on a roll, they're trying to close us on the Saturday, you've got JT and Spieth, you know, with all of their antics that they get up to in these team competitions, pumping that New

York crowd up, it was pretty rowdy. I mean, that is, that's good value, that's good entertainment. You see a lot from these international players as well when they're back to get against the wall and they've been knocked down, how are they gonna get up and fight? What do you see from their personalities? What can you appreciate out of them

in those moments when they're fully exposed and getting their butts kicked from a tough American team? How do they handle that adversity? How do they handle themselves in defeat? Those are cool things to watch in my opinion. That's what sport is all about. So it sounds like you were one of the guys

that called early for this event to be changed. So you and I are gonna have to have it out. I hear you from a standpoint of bringing the woman in. I've heard that from from many people. I said last week, you know, I don't believe that woman need men in their competitions to make them relevant. I'm a huge fan of woman sport always have been because I'm a fan of sport and greatness in general. I see that wherever I look in sports. I would be much more inclined to try and find a way to have a woman's president's cup. And I think that would be equally entertaining. The international

woman golfers from around around the world are probably some of the best places. It would be extremely strong. It would be great to see. And, you know, as much as I've tried to grow the brand of the shield, wouldn't it be awesome to see some of the best women's players in the world wearing the shield and competing for the international team? I would be much more inclined to do that purely because I've been in these locker rooms of ours. And I've seen how the players buy in, I've seen how the caddies have bought in and the wives and the families. And how excited everybody gets about this event. And so, I just don't want to take that away from them.

I don't want to change it. I think there is, there's more magic left there. And we are still really, when you look at the grand scheme of things and you compare this to the Ryder Cup, this tournament is still in this infancy. You know, we're not even 30 years in yet. It took 60 years for the Europeans to win on US soil in 1987. So we're still in our infancy here and building towards something that we think could be great. So we would just ask for everybody

to leave us alone for a little while and try and fight for that. Putting the women part of this equation to the side for a second, I'm with you in that it is in the empathy phase and you mentioned the Ryder Cup. The Ryder Cup did undergo an enormous change that made it a lot more competitive,

which was going from GB and I into bringing all of Europe in. Do you see any wiggle room? And over the years, the President's Cup has evolved. The number of matches has shrunk down from, I don't remember what it was now, but it's less now than it was 2013, I think, even I don't remember exact timeline when that changed.

But like, if I look at even this past one, from the moment you guys, this event flipped over to four four sums and four, four ball instead of five in both, you guys won. You guys scored more points on the weekend than, I mean, the US was up to an eight to start when it was five matches. And the chance for the US to show off their depth is an enormous advantage, I think, the US was up to an eight to start when it was five matches and a chance for the US to show off their depth is an enormous advantage, I think, in both the in Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup. So do you at least see Possibilities or changes for wiggle room in the way in the number of matches or how that is set up to to kind of make it

I don't want to say make it more competitive, but I think it just adds more decision making, decision making and strategy and chances for us to critique decision making. I think that, I don't know, I think that could make it more interesting. Do you see any wiggle room towards finding a way to, I don't want to say make it more competitive because the events have been competitive,

but nine straight wins is a lot. You see what I'm getting at. I absolutely see what you're getting at. For us, everything is always on the table. We have to thank Nick Price for going to the mat and fighting really hard from a standpoint of bringing those points down. So they were able to get rid of two points, Shucks, when I played, I wanted to say that's a long time ago,

of 5 and 07. I believe everybody played every match. And so the points were even greater, slowly but surely that has started to whittle down. Nick Price got rid of two of those matches on the weekend. And like you say, depth has always been an issue for us. And when we get to the weekend, we do seem to be able to hold our own. And so that is always on the table for us so far. The Americans have resisted wanting to change that. And I understand that because they know

that they have the advantage there. And so for anything to happen in the president's cup, for anything to change, the two captains need to agree. And so we have spoken about that, asked about that on many occasions, Nick Price, like I said, got a small change made, which was consequential for us. And we'll continue to look at ways

to be able to make this more competitive and help it be even more exciting on the weekends. You know, we're going to need the other team to agree and play ball as well. And that, you know, that is one of the beauties of the president's cup. And I'm not sure if it was portrayed or how it came across on TV because the last two I've been in the media center while all those picks are going on and your brain is on fire trying to, you know, run through different strategies and the way you want to go about things as an assistant captain or a captain. But it is so much fun in the president's cup, the way the

picks are made to be able to use some strategy against the other team and who you're going to send out and what order you're going to do things. And so there is some secret source there that I believe is a little better than the rider cup because it adds that little nuance and people can tune in and people can shout out the captains when they think they're wrong or agree or maybe the next day it turns out the captains were correct and they can change their decision. Some of the fans out there, so we're always looking for ways to make this event better and better.

It is absolutely in every international players, best interests to make this event as great as what it can be and grow it as much as possible. Because I've said this a bunch of times, At the end of the day, our team represents billions and billions of people all over the world. And you've got this cliche that's out there a lot nowadays of growing the game. But when you consider all the countries and people we represent, if we could find a way to get some type

of footing and excitement behind our team, Shucks, I can't think of anything better for the game than kids all over the world, whether it be in India or China or Japan, Korea. You just go through all the different regions that we represent. Untap, South America, gosh, if it could inspire some youngsters to pick up the game and want to represent the shield, you're not going to be having a total different conversation in 10 or 15 years time. This episode of the No-Ling Up Podcast is also brought to you by our friends at Precision Pro Golf, a proud partner of NLU. We've all stood over the

ball and hit the exact shot we wanted, but instead of finding the green, the ball falls five yards short or sales 10 yards long, guessing your yardage isn't necessary anymore and breaking the bank isn't either at precisionprogolf.com. You can get reliable range finders or GPS speakers at an affordable price. This is one of the main reasons we wanted to partner with them. Their products are extremely affordable and they're of the highest quality. The award-winning NX 10 slope range finder offers golfers everything they will need in a range finder.

We all have the NX 10 on our bags. It's been a game changer. It locks under your target quickly. It gets a slope adjusted distance very quickly. The magnetic card mount and the slope switch make using the NX 10 about as easy as possible. And what stands out about the NX 10 is the customization at precision pro golf.com. You can select from an ever growing selection of interchangeable designs. You can attach to your rangefinder like the city state series or your very own no laying up skins. They're also proud to offer a youth on course design as well, where they're breaking down barriers and providing rounds of golf for as little as $5 you can support this

mission by adding youth on course skin to your cart when purchasing your NX 10 rangefinder. They'll donate $10 to provide kids an opportunity to learn lessons that can be taught in a way Only the golf course can so head to precisionprogolf.com to find the right product for you and find out more on how they're working with youth on course to help give kids a chance on the golf course to learn the game swing with confidence Hit more greens with precision pro golf Role Melbourne was a Total treat right and I think it you know, there's a lot of reasons why why events go to different golf courses and things like that. And for hardcore golf fan like myself that if it went to places like that, it would be very if that was the identity of it, it would be very easy to get behind, right? And I think it, you know, excited about it returning to Melbourne in 2028. I don't think the courses have been officially announced yet, but I would be very surprised if it was not there. But no, I think it, you know, again, I'm just talking to you as a golf fan for what I,

what I differentiate between the presidents and writer cup is, I have a little hate in my heart, just a little bit of hate in my heart for Europe. Like I wanna beat them, very bad. You know, I want the US to beat them. And I just have had that them very bad. You know, I want the US to beat them and I just have had that since I was, you know, in 1999 really going all the way back that far when I was a kid. And I think it is going to take a lot of years to your point to develop that in golf fans minds of

I want to smash the international's I want to beat them. I want I want to beat them. It's almost you know, despite it being close these last couple of times, we're not yet at that phase where there's, if you guys would stop being so damn likable and approachable, maybe we could get there. But I find, you know, if someone of the European T was doing what Tom Kim was doing in Charlotte, I might not have reacted with as much glee as I did. But let's transition into some of that, if you will, because when did you know Tom Kim was going to erupt personality-wise in the way that he did, right? Because he's 20 years old coming in.

It can go one of two ways. You can kind of go back into your shell a little bit or you can totally embrace this outrageous environment, different environment compared to what you're used to in professional golf. Did you know from the get-go he was going to be like he was? Well, you never quite know, but you have a feeling. And I definitely had a feeling from the moment I met him on the fourth fairway at the old course, the week of the open, you could feel that there was something different about this kid.

He just has that something special in his personality. And on our team trip after the tour championship,, immediately he was one of the most popular players. And the guys just fell in love with him. They fell in love with his enthusiasm. They fell in love with the fact that everything was new and exciting to him. And so he was always just in such a great mood. Everything we did was like, oh, that's

how we do things on this team. How cool is this? We're driving on a luxury bus from the hotel to the golf course. This is amazing. Like everything we did from the team trip through the week was just so exciting to him. He was on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and he was amazing. He got to hit pro v ones on the range. Like that's where he's at.

It is development. So I had an inkling and he didn't disappoint. I mean, the kid is so special. And really, when you look at it, his golf course does not match up with Coelhollow. You know, he was statistically our second shortest hitter on our team. Coelhollow is a big ballpark that suits long hitters.

You know, he found a way to still compete with that toughness of his, that youthful exuberance. And he was amazing in the locker room. And really, when you look back at it now, the four Korean players were the heartbeat of our team. They brought the A games. They were amazing in the locker room, starting with, you know, being vulnerable because they don't speak all that much English

in all cases, but they were able to put themselves out there. And to me, that's, there's a lot of secret sauce in that. When you're in a locker room and athletes allow themselves to be exposed and allow their heart to come out and to be vulnerable. Man, people, people really respond to that. Others respond to that, whether it be players or caddies and that whole backroom stuff. So those guys were a massive part of our team, just a huge part. You know, Tom Kim was the spearhead of that.

What was the, I mean, we got to see a little glimpse of it into the, the videos that came out on Saturday night. But what was Saturday night like in the team room? I mean, he makes the putt, they're on 18, runs around the green, you've closed the gap to four, you won the day, which was what your goal was. What was Saturday night like in the team room? Well, sorry, every night in our team is good. Every night in our team is good. Even down eight to? Oh, every night in our team is good. Like I said, we love this team

and we love this competition. And so is there a discipline, and an irritability when we're down eight to, yeah, absolutely. But every night in our team is good. The guys really buy in and they enjoy it. My wife and I spent a lot of time planning how the week would go out.

We had different evenings that we dedicated to different cultures and we would tell a story every night about you know Who that evening was representing and why they were important to our team and so Even when we went four down four one down the first day and eight two down the second day when the players came back into the locker room We were we were telling them a story about, okay, what that evening was going to entertain or what that evening was going to involve. So it's always a great time. And Saturday night, Saturday was a big day because I challenged those guys on the way to the golf course, Saturday morning. We left at 5.05. I gave them five minutes extra sleep and I said, okay, we won't leave it 5. We'll leave it 5.05. On the way to the golf course, I stood up and

I said to those guys, you know, we got to find a way to dig deeper than what we've we've ever gone before here and we have to find a way to win the day. Man, they responded and they found a way to start making some cuts. Saturday night was a lot of fun because it was actually South Africa night in our locker room. And so we had brought in, you know, we call them prize, you know, barbecues, grills, whatever you guys want to call them, but we had built open fires on the practice facility at Quail Hollow. We had to get the fire marshal in to give us permission to be able to do it. And we were grilling all sorts of meats and foods for the guys to show them some South African culture.

So, actually during the day and the afternoon, you could smell those by his burning and the meat being prepared. And so we were building up that evening for the guys. And in the fact that they responded so well and we won those two points late to win that afternoon. It was just like a little bit of a snowball that was starting to get us some momentum. And so there was a lot of energy, a lot of positive energy.

And when those players came into the locker room, they were greeted appropriately by everybody, for the heart that they showed, and the fight that they showed. And it was a great moment of bonding for us. And so to some people, and I spoke to some of the American players the next night and they're like,

what the hell were you guys doing? We heard music come from your locker room and we could smell all the food that you guys were cooking on the driving range. And I was like, we were just doing our thing. We were doing our thing. We were having a great time. There's always an exciting atmosphere

and an around our team. So even though we were enjoying ourselves, we knew we had a lot of work cut out for the next day and we were trying to figure out the bearings and all that and seeing if we could find a way to have a huge upset on the Sunday. I looked for a little while we were gonna get there, but every night's a good night in our team. So how do you you mentioned kind of the strategy that goes into putting up players against another,

you know, the Americans put up somebody and then it's your turn to put up somebody then you got to go again and they react to it. And I want to talk about some of the team stuff involved in that as well. But when you got to singles, Seaboo Kim going out first, we were, what instigated that? What was your strategy for singles? How did you decide where you trying to find matchups in particular, what kind of advantages were you trying to find in the different matches?

I tried to get your answer this prior to, but you didn't want to give up any secrets. But now we're done, the post-mortem, we can kind of say, you can kind of give us an idea of what you're going for there. Yeah, but whoever the next captain is, we can't give all of the ideas away. But there's definitely a system there. Things worked out pretty much the way we wanted, you know,

with the matchups during the week. It shouldn't look like it on Thursday and Friday, because we just got put it right off of the golf course in the Americans played extremely well. But on the weekend, it worked quite well. See, we're actually, I have a ton of respect for that guy and for his game. I really think there's so much untapped potential there still, and I hope that that event and that match spurs him on to keep things going here in the future. But I knew, I just, well, I guess you can't say, you know, Thomas has gone out first a couple times for them. In a lot of ways, he's taken over the mantle as the leader of that team.

And so we knew that they would want to go out there early and try to finish it. How to feeling that he was going to go out there. Spelt like Tom, he wouldn't be able to get into Seaboo's head, excuse me. If anything, it worked the other way around from what happened. It seemed like with the Gimmie controversy on 9. Yeah, well, that's kind of what I mean. I just knew that he wasn't going to get intimidated. He has a ton of experience having played the president's cup before

and playing at the highest level. He's been on tour a long time. He was actually one of the guys we were looking and playing at the highest level. He's been on tour a long time. He was actually one of the guys we were looking to tee off first on Thursday, but once Davis deferred, we shifted our strategy to something else. And so he had been preparing for going off first anyway. I just had a good feeling about that. And he was two down early and he was fighting back. And that's second nine nine man. You talk about excitement and not changing this this event and this format. That first match in singles was some impressive stuff and you could feel the passion and you could feel the energy from the crowd. You know the fight from Siwu and the guts to act like that on American soil down the stretch when you're playing against one of the most popular players in the world.

That shows that shows that he has something a little special there. And so the putt he makes on 15 to tie from about eight feet. The birdie he makes at 16 after driving it in the fairway bunker and then the birdie on 18. That's some special stuff there to take down one of the best plans. So how do feeling about Siwoo? Then we were just trying to create certain matchups. You know, you look at the US's average world rankings right around 12, ours is right around 48.

So there's a gigantic difference there. So we have to find a way to to bring those a little more together. And then you know there's been a lot of questions about why Tom Kim wasn't going out first after all of his energy. He had played a lot. I wanted to give him a little more time to recover and also I wanted to make sure that in case something special happened on Sunday, that we had a guy like him there, toward the end, if we really needed it, that could handle that moment. And I felt like, you know, the way he had played, the heart that he was showing, I felt like he was the right guy to be able to do that. And he got off to a great start against Max, and he was up early, and he was doing his job.

And I think one of the things that he would learn from the week is to finish it off. I think when he started to realize through the early part of the second nine, that things said slip or were slipping away from us, he lost his focus a little bit, and he let Max off the hook there. So I think that's one of the things if he's being really honest that he would learn from the week and do differently next time.

On the team front, you come into the week with a plan. I don't know how, if that pin is in really dark pencil or if it's written in really dark pencil or if it's written in pen, do you know where your flexibilities are going to potentially be around certain pairings, around certain guys that, you know, you're reacting to see how they play. And if they're playing poorly, they're coming out the next day's lineup. How do you stick to a plan and, you know, you communicate plans

to your players? Here's who you're going to play with. Here's the formats. How do you stick to that? And yet at the same time, react to what you're going to play with, here's the formats. How do you stick to that and yet at the same time react to what you're seeing on the course, potentially make changes without them being panic decisions. I'm fascinated by that whole process because it's easy for us to sit here and say, hey, this guy played great, why is he sitting the next session? How does that fit into the bigger plan? Did you make changes from your original plan and kind of, as in a post-mortem as well, how do you evaluate how you made those

decisions? We had a plan A and then you have different variations of that because very rarely does anything go exactly how you want it. So you have different variations of that. The players were well aware of those different variations. When it came to four sums, they had done work with probably two or three different players golf balls if they needed to to make sure that they were ready for those different variations. And then we just have to see how the Americans put their pairings out and then what order they were doing things. As far as adjusting on the fly, I was very skeptical of that because in my research of different team competitions, I just don't feel like knee jerk reactions have paid off very well for

teams. And I felt like throughout the course of a week, a player was going to end up playing like I thought he was going to play. And so just to throw somebody out because, you know, they won their last match, there's a lot of different things that you have to look into. Somebody may have won a match, but maybe they were too over and the players they were playing against were three over, like some of the data that I've looked into so far into last week,

is you look at a player like Sam Burns. And I'm gonna use the Americans here as an example for people. Sam Burns statistically was the best player on the American team at the president's cup and he got two halves out of it, incredible. It is incredible. Max Homer was 4 and 0 and he statistically was right in the middle of the pack of

the American team. So, match play is a different animal, a total different animal and it's sort of like being in the right place at the right time and that's why I felt like making knee jerk reactions was not the right long term plan. And also I thought it would be sending the wrong message to my team. I didn't want them to feel like I was panicking when we were four or one down or eight or two down.

I had been preaching to them for months and months to buy into the system, buy into the process, trust it and believe in it. And how can I be telling them that for months on end? And then when the time comes, I'm the guy at the panics. You know, I think that's why I think that's why, you know, they had that kind of belief. And we had that that special team camaraderie because there was just no drama throughout the week from anybody. So I was very skeptical of that.

And I think our team came a long way in many situations. You look at the the Sanjayi M. Munoz combination, you know, the fact that you got a Colombian guy and a Korean guy paired up together and playing so well, that shows how far we've come. You know, there's a lot of people out there that are like, okay, well, you have two Canadians, they should play together every time and the Koreans should play. That takes so many options away from us. That it's just not the best way for us to try and finally get over that last hurdle and win this thing. So you've got to have an open mind, you've got to trust what we're doing. The players are doing that now. The caddies are doing that now. We'll

see how it goes in Montreal, man. We're looking for Devon another shot at it. I think I think Montreal should definitely be close if things continue to trend this way. How do you I don't I do not mean this in any way to pick on it. I just see we all we all know what Corey Conner just capable of on the golf course. And he did not have his best stuff. Obviously in the presence cup, he would say the same thing. But you're I assume you're coming into the week counting heavily on someone like that. And at what point, you know, this is where your job is gets really hard. It's, you know, he has a bad session or two bad sessions. Maybe how do you decide, hey, this is going to continue or he's going to return to being the Corey Conners

that we know in that moment. How do you decide, you know, that's the part of your job that I don't envy is deciding, hey, I'm sticking to my big guns because it's just unlikely that they're going to continue to play like this versus I got a ride, a hot hand. Did any, I guess kind of talk me through maybe related to Corey or maybe related to Hadecki

or any of your big guns that maybe didn't have their best stuff How does their performance to that point change any of your decision making and how you're pairing them up? Maybe thinking about resting them and and you know, I don't know what your reflection is back on that. Yeah, it was It sure was surprising to be very honest that It sure was surprising to be very honest that Corey struggled like that throughout the week. Like you say, he's one of the most consistent players on the planet. You know, shows that week and the week out, but unfortunately, either struggled in a match or ran up against somebody that was playing the lights out. And you know, that's the beauty and the intricacy of match play.

But looking at it, his weapon just wasn't quite there for him on the week, and that's his iron play. And that let him down a little bit. And so he ended up playing four matches. It was tough for him. It was tough for him to have to sit out on the set of day afternoon, but he wanted to be able to do a little work on the range, try and find a little bit of rhythm.

You know, you maneuver your way through those things. There's always a few injuries and niggles. It's a long week, you know, emotionally, mentally, physically for those players. You're trying to manage all of that. Deck, he has been managing a couple injuries for months now. And so he was day to day in a lot of aspects, but he was so up for it. He was so up for it. So I was trying to figure out the whole time. Do I keep running him out there, or do I give him some rest? He seemed ready to me. He seemed ready to me. It felt like it was important for our team to see him out there. He is such a popular player, such an amazing player for us. And it was just a little on the greens that he struggled.

He looked at his ball striking stats, really solid, as always. Man, did he get screwed on the 18th hole in the singles? That tee shot was probably going to be bounded down the fairway by now the 20 yards or so, just landing in that first cup there and hits the volunteer and kicks back into the trees. And then the chip shot hits the flag and retls around the whole drop, it doesn't drop down. And so he wanted to get that point.

He had a good win with Adam on the Saturday. But yeah, it's tough. Look, we need our big dogs to step up to the plate. Adam played some good golf. He got a couple points for us. He's a huge part of our team. But really, when you look at the picks, the picks did an amazing job throughout the week. And even Taylor Pendress, you know, so many people have wondered about that and thrown out other names that they would rather have there. But Penderes played some nice golf and the 18th hole just undidied him a couple times. I wanted to say it was the Thursday afternoon, he and me, Toe had a chance there on 18, had an 8 footer lip out so they get nothing out of that match.

And then on the Friday, he holds a beautiful 10 footer and then Max makes that putt right on top of him to get that point. So, Pinterest played some great golf and just didn't get anything out of it. It's so easy to Monday quarterback this stuff. It really is. It really is. But when we look at the data here, I gotta say,

the guys that quoted themselves so well, Tito Green, just need to find a way to have made a few more putts. Americans putted beautifully, particularly from long range. They made a lot of long putts, and with greens that are that undulating that quick, that's an ominous sign, not just for us, but for the Europeans next year as well. If those guys continue to putt like that, I do have a feeling and an inkling that those greens in Italy will probably be running at about a nine or 10 There's these guys. Those were they were so fast at quail hollow faster than the PGA Tour event the Wells Fargo there

Am I right in saying that I mean I was yeah, I was kind of stunned by how much Some fine line pins to some very much some some edgy little pins on 16 especially and And you know, right on top of some grain changes and some the pins on eight, I thought we're super delicate. It was an interesting, interesting setup. This is another thing that's so difficult is finding out who your kind of semi unexpected hot hand is. And to me, and this is almost kind of

shines through by the time singles is over, by the time maybe it's almost too late to fully see it with Sebastian Munoz felt like he played, I don't know what your data's telling you kind of shines through by the time singles is over it by the time maybe it's almost too late to fully see it was Sebastian Munoz felt like he played, I don't know what your data is telling you as far as what production wise is there that was maybe my only with full hindsight, of course, critique would have been sitting him two sessions may have seemed like something that you would have taken a Mulligan on with the benefit of hindsight, is that fair to say? Yeah, yeah, possibly. He played some amazing golf throughout the week, two and a half out of three points. It just didn't quite work out that way.

And he was ready to go. He's an amazing teammate. He's very reserved. He has calming influence on the whole locker room. Just a lovely guy. Whenever you see him, he's got this smile on his face. He looks like he's so peaceful and content. Yeah, he played some amazing golf

He he potted he was pretty much the best putter on our team and That's what carried him through there. So Yeah, easy to doubt that you know nothing ever changes in a vacuum when you change one thing other things change as well And so when you look at a guy like him that wins two and a half out of three, or you look at Bessadino who wins one and a half out of two, it's so easy to say, okay, why why shouldn't we have played those guys more? But if you change one thing, others have to change as well. So what do you want me to do? You want me to split up Tom Kim and K.H. Lee when they got that to when they got that huge point on Saturday.

What else is going to change to make way for that? You just don't know. You just don't know. And there's no guarantee that the extra session you would have added for him that he would have played good golf again, right? You just you don't know all of those and that's what it's fascinating. It really is and it's like it, I said before, hands like by the furt, by the, by halfway through the first session, you can kind of see who the guy is in the, in writer cups and presidents cup, right? You can say, like, oh, that guy's going five matches and he's going to be tough to beat. And I thought it was aander like at that point and ended up being spieth. But it's interesting. Just in how, you know, you look at it and

you say, all right, that guy's not going to lose one. And then we've seen speed Peter out, you know, in rider cups as well by the time he gets to singles or by the time he gets to the last session and for some of it. So it's no guarantee that somebody, you know, that got two and a half points out of three means they would have got another one and the other one.

Because like you said, it depends on who you go up against and all this stuff. But that's what makes team golf really fun. You mentioned Hadecki. What is he like in the team room? He's a veteran on your team. He's been a part of these. You know, he doesn't speak much English to the press.

And I'm curious, you know, how he is as a leader. Does he take a leadership role? He seems to be a quiet person, but I don't know if I'm, you know, assigning that to him based on the fact that we don't hear a lot of direct English from him. But what's he like as far as a leader in your team room? It's a great teammate. He's very unselfish. He is reserved. There's no doubt about it. In an ideal world, I would love for him to be a bit more vocal. One of the things that I was extremely focused on was I wanted players to be authentic and be real and be themselves. And if somebody

is, is not comfortable in that role, then it would be pretty bad leadership from me to try and force them into that situation. And so Hadecki is exactly who he is weekend and week out. He's humble, he's respectful, he's reserved, and then he's a leader on the golf course because he comes with such a presence and aura about himself. But he's a great guy and he gives advice to all of the young players when they go to him and ask for it. He's not around there walking in between every player telling him, okay, you need to do this, you need to do that. But he's always there. And he's always present. And he's always available. And that's one of the reasons, you know, we love him so much. Just needed to run into a week with a hot puddle and he would

have been tough to beat this note, this note, that's not that. Because we've seen our world, he's played quite well all over the years as well. And the heart that he showed to keep fighting through a couple injuries and keep putting his hand up and saying I'm ready to go is something that I'm very thankful for. What about Adam Scott? He's been a part of so many of these teams over the years. You know he is your de facto captain in the in the among the players I would have to imagine. What is I don't really know. I'm not really sure what my question is related to him. I guess I just kind of feel for him for how much dedication he's given to this team over the years and really, really wanting to win one.

What how do you gauge his I don't want to say energy level towards this, but his morale as being a part of another one of these teams. Well, he's tired of getting beat. There's no doubt about it. He's just had the one tie and nine losses. But he and I in extreme are extremely close. We spend a ton of time together since we were kids, came through the ranks at similar times. It would be amateur golf, professional golf, European, to a PJ, to us.

So we spend a ton of time together. I have so much respect for him, the way that he's gone about his business throughout his career, the class with which he always handles everything. He always seems to do things the right way. And that's how he is in the team room. He was very involved throughout the whole process from about a year out, very involved with everything. I was running all my ideas and decisions by him to see what his thoughts were. I think he enjoyed that role. Look, we're also trying to get him ready for when he's captain. So we're trying to bleed him in there and let him understand how things work.

And he loved that process. You know. He's probably a little disappointed, only earning two points. He ran into a buzz saw then and can't play on the Sunday as well. We've seen how great he started to play in these team events. He's a, he's pretty tough guy to go up against Patrick. But Scotty's the man. He is the man.

We had one picture up in our team room of a player and it was of him. He's an extremely important guy on the international team and it was a great week for him because he set a record for the international team being the first player ever to represent our team 10 times. So it had Vijay and Ernie do it nine times. And Suscoady got to 10. First guy ever to get the double digits. So we're really proud of him and thankful to have him be brought in, you know, through the process, there were so many rumors out there that he was gonna be gone and not be able to play the president's cup

and all that kind of stuff. And it was tough for me at times to always keep my mouth shut because I knew it was otherwise. But looking back at it, I'm very thankful that he was all in and such a great piece of the puzzle for me in support system. The last thing I had in relation to the week was really I did not see that coming from Sungjae in the Sunday night video of him ganged him, himself dancing. I did not see that. I would, I would definitely encourage more and more of that kind of, you know, but I think we did see more smiles and more, more boisterous nature, more of a boisterous nature from Sungjae on the course that we've seen at any point during stroke play events. But yeah, that Sunday

night, it looked like it was quite fun. Yeah, look, we, we're always win the party. Like I said to you, every night is a great night in our team room. All the American players eventually end up in our team room on that Sunday night. That is something that Sung Jay is known for. He busted that out a few times in Australia as well. So he knew that was going to be coming at some point during the evening. And really, Sully, one of the things that I wanted to do with this captaincy was to be able to find a way for international players to tell their story

throughout this whole process. That's why I wanted to get our team to start social media accounts. So the people out there could learn a little bit more about these guys' weekend and week out. And slowly but surely get these players to be able to put themselves out there because it is very difficult. When English isn't your first language and you don't want to say something wrong or you

don't want to say something that can be taken the wrong way by people. So in a lot of times it's just safer to either keep your mouth shut or go through an interpreter. But I'm trying to get these guys to get a little bit more comfortable to get out there and allow people to get to know them. Because we're the guy like Sungjae and really all four of the Koreans on our team. They are downright hilarious. I promise you. Just amazing sense of humor from those guys.

Always laughing. Don't take them till it sells too seriously. And willing to have a back and forth conversation with people and make fun of themselves and make fun of others. And really that's the secret to having a great team room. And so those guys are just downright hilarious. That was a cool moment. Tony, I gotta say, I'm gonna have to have a little word with Tony Fina, but leaking that video onto social media, you know, that's a tricky

spot right there, but great for people to see a little bit of the personality from from Sungjae. He is a legend and talk about a great golfer 24 years old. I was going to say to see who's credit. I mean he has he gave some great interviews on television that you know when he won the players in 2017 he was speaking through an interpreter entirely I believe and you know just to kind of get his reaction and see the emotion and for what he had just gone through. I thought that was an interesting look into a player that we don't really have a great

understanding of. He just says, this guy that gets super hot at times, and I don't know if anybody can predict when that's going to happen. Maybe you guys that know him better than we do can help us predict that, but it seems very difficult. This question is, I'm very willing to defend you on both of these, but I'm sure you got some comments on social media on these. Did it hurt seeing McKenzie Hughes and Ryan Fox winning the events right after the week after the president's cup? I'm sure people gave you some some flag over that. Oh yeah, I've been hearing about

that for a long time. Did it hurt? Absolutely not. I am so damn proud of those guys. So proud of them and messaged with them immediately back and forth and told them exactly, you know, how proud our team is of them. Those guys, along with a number of other players, were very close to making our team. Very, very close. Those are the decisions you have to make when you're a captain. There's an opportunity to qualify on your own right, and you don't have to rely on a captain's pick. But once you're in a position to where you have to rely on a captain's pick, you just never quite know which way it's going to go. And, you know, hopefully the fact, and that's actually what I said to those guys, and the other guys that I called as well to tell them that, unfortunately, they weren't going to be on the final 12, even though

they were part of the squad for a couple of years. As I said to all of them, I hope this makes you want to make the team more in Canada, because we do have something special going. Players thoroughly enjoy the week when they represent our team, and I hope this lights up fire under you guys even more, because we want to see you there. We want to see you playing great golf, And the fact that those guys came out and one immediately is so cool to see because we need more and more depth from all over. You know, I look at other guys like Lucas Herbert and Minwooli, you know, you can go down the list. There's a number of players out there that we feel very strongly about in the future.

And you throw a Foxy in there, Mac, and Adam Hadwell, and there's a whole host of people coming down the pike that we think can be great players for us. So I was just damn proud of them, just damn proud of them. You know, timing is a weird thing in sports who knows, I have no control of all that kind of stuff. Well, and also it's, you know, there's very different parts of the world that they're playing golf in and different courses, different grasses, different speeds, different formats.

It's not a predictor of, you know, not to say they would have played poorly, but it's just a different, it's a totally different question. Exactly. You're talking about, you know, I don't doubt these guys' ability by any stretch of the imagination. But you're talking about stroke player match play. I mean, earlier in this conversation, we were talking about Sam Burns. And how statistically he was the best player on the US team, but only got two half points. You just never, you just never know.

And like I said, when you change one thing, other things change as well. And so at the end of the day, I take full responsibility for my picks. You know, people can come at me and that's fine, that's their opinion. You know, I respect everybody's opinion. I take responsibility for it and it is what it is. And now we look forward to the next one.

Last thing I have, this was greatly appreciated by by everyone on social media. I think that saw it. You got a good luck wish from someone before the tournament. I guess had started and you sent a little reply to that that person Greg Norman wish the international team. Good luck and the only the quote reply for at Trevor Emelman was L.O.L.

It all caps. So what are you going to provide any color to that one? I mean, it's exactly what I was doing when I read it. You know, let's just put it this way. I have a lot of information and know how a lot of things went down to get professional golf in the position it is in right now. So when I read that, I just was having a chuckle. You know, I thought I would just throw it out there and it got a little traction.

You know, I have a ton of respect for Greg Normand and what he achieved on the golf course. Do I agree with every single little thing that he's doing right now? Probably not, but it's his life and he can run it exactly the way he not, but it's his life and he can run it exactly the way he wants. But I got to say, I did have a bit of a chuckle when I read his his message. We all did as well. We really appreciated that one. But Trevor, we're going to get you out of here. I want to thank you for engaging with us both in preview and afterward. And I got to say, just say, keep doing what you're doing. I think, you know, I've been, I'm a defender of the president's cup yet at the same time. I find a critique to president's cup, but I think the more you've spoken about the mission and the

goal and what you guys are doing for the team for the long haul, the more golf fans can see that vision and understand it and see that the event through that context. I think that's really important. So greatly appreciate you spending some time with us and hope to do it again sometime. And I'm going to need to, I'm going to pick your brain on a lot of that information you have about how the golf road has changed offline as well. Yeah, hey, critique is good, man. Critique is good because that's how we get better. So that's good stuff.

We keep wanting to get better. We want to keep making the president's cup better. Gosh, I good stuff. We keep wanting to get better, we want to keep making the presidents cup better. I just love golf so much. And I love high level sport and high level golf so much because I have an appreciation for what these players have to do to be able to get this good and what they go through to compete at this level. And when they hit certain shots and do certain things, man, it's just so impressive to me. So I'm willing to have a conversation with anybody, listen to anybody, talk to anybody that has the game's best interest in hearts,

to in their hearts to try and improve things. So let's keep that going. Love it. Thanks so much for joining us and we'll chat with you soon, cheers. All right, cheers. that gun. Love it. Thanks so much for joining us and we'll chat with you soon, cheers. All right, cheers. Give it a right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. The most, better than most.