No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 610: Shriners Recap w/ Kyle Porter

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Kyle Porter joins Soly and Neil to chat about Tom Kim's win at the Shriners, Cantlay's decision on 18, putting Kim's season into perspective, and everything else from the Shriners. We also talk about Eugenio Chacarra's win in Bangkok, Bryson whining about the OWGR, LIV's MENA Tour shenanigans, what the OWGR actually is, LPGA, Jon Rahm, Furyk and Friends, and a lot more.  DraftKings Disclaimer: If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MI/NJ/PA/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXTSTEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY), visit OPGR.org (OR), call/text TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/LA(select parishes)/MI/NH/NJ/ NY/OR/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. New customer offer void in NH/OR/ONT-CA. New customers only. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min $5 wager. $200 issued as eight (8) $25 free bets. Opt in req. 1 Stepped Up Same Game Parlay Token issued per eligible game. Min $1 bet. Max bet limits apply. Min. 3-leg. Each leg min. -300 odds, total bet +100 odds or longer. Profit boosted up to 100% (10+ legs for 100% boost). See T&C at sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang podcast, Sully here joining me. It's been a little while, my friend. I'm trying to think the last time you were on the podcast, you've had a lot going on in your life, but joining us from his new studio in Brooklyn, Neil Schuster, hello, young

Neil. So it's great to be here. Last time I was on P and Lynn were just putting laying hands on me, trying to, trying to fix my golf game, appreciate all the outreach on that episode. It was a ton of fun talking to them. But man, I am hyped to talk about Shriners, talk about live, talk about John Rom, winning his national open shout out to TC. I'm just hyped to be here, man Oh, you know, you were on the LPN Lina episode obviously, but I mean I'll recap you have been on a recap in a long time So I'm gonna bounce a lot of stuff off you get a lot to talk about

Shriner's got pretty entertaining today. It was very slow moving. It was entertaining But I got a question for you before we get going. I'm gonna read a quote quote to you. This quote says, I really like to hit driver. I keep my ball in the fairway so I can go at the pin. I love my driver. And I'll give you a spoiler answer. It's a rogue ST triple diamond driver this person's talking about. Do you know who this quote belongs to?

I mean, I was going to say me. I feel like I've said that, but I don't play a triple diamond. So that's, that can't be me. Is it a professional? Yeah, it was Aotea Tittakum. You were so close. She is now the number two player in the world on the LPGA tour. I'll give you a round two. My putter, I would say, is the club that has gotten me the furthest? You know, I was able to win in blank because of the putter. Honestly,

that's a white hot OG putter. Do you know who this was? I feel like that's John Rom. Really close. It was Andrea Lee, Calloway. Again, the number one driver in play on the LPGA tour this week and Odyssey, the number one putter by far, by a mile, not even close on the LPGA tour. You can check out all that information, the Callaway golf.com. This is a hard test. It's a hard test.

That could have been, that could have been Rom, because he did win and he uses a white hot OG. So listen, I think I was, you know, I was close there, closer than the first one for sure. I think you could have taken that one back to the teacher and said, like, look, I know this is what you attended, but this is technically correct.

And I think you could have got credit for that one. So we will allow that. Ah, Shriners, we're gonna start with the Shriners. Kyle Porter is gonna be joining us shortly. I probably should have said that to start. He is recording his podcast now. We are, we hit record here pretty much as soon as Tom Kim takes down Patrick Cantlay at the Shriners. Neil, how much Shriners did you watch this week?

I got in some watching on Friday and I watched all afternoon today. My sister-in-law got engaged, shout out to Gray, shout out to the big the big cat Jerry Riley So some week infestivities, but I came home today around noon I picked up a dresser at IKEA and I built that shit and I watched the Shriners from about Leaders are on the 8th or 9th hole. So watch the back nine all the way in and I will say this golf is You know building a dresser was about as slow as that coverage was today I mean we were we were using the Allen wrench. We were getting we were reading the directions for you know, building a dresser was about as slow as that coverage was today. I mean, we were, we were using the Alan wrench. We were getting, we were reading the directions for, you know, cover to cover. Actually, you know, some drama down the, the, the backstretch. So some drama, but the, yeah, the combination of Tom Kim and Patrick Cantley was a tough

pace of play issue there. They finished over over a hole behind. And I was off last week. I was on vacation last week and missed and one take away I had and this is we probably should assume in the fall that not everyone watched all of the golf, right? So I think that we could probably spend a little bit of time giving a little bit of play by play action for for how it unfolded on Sunday. Can't lay and Tom Kim came into round four tied for the lead. 1900 par.

I picked up the action. I should say the TV picked up the action around the seventh hole, a bomb birdie rolled in by Tom Kim on the par three eighth hole. It makes another really good up and down for birdie on the par five ninth hole. It was really firm at some of these are brand new greens. Of course, it was renovated in the off season, usually when you come back from that.

The greens are very firm and he had a really good bumper through the bermuda, drains the putt, a little chicken, the armor there on 11 is he had a bad drive, pulls into the left stuff, can't lay rolls in a 12 foot birdie on 11 and another one at 12 to tie it at 22 under. Kim responds immediately with a birdie on the par 5, 13th and then drains one on the par 3, 14th. These one on the par 314th. These were just spectacular display of golf there. So he's got a two shot lead as they get to the par for the dribble par 415th.

Can't lay hits this unreal three wood just down an elevator shaft landed on the in like had to be a five foot circle that you had to land this ball into that is specifically Trevor home that called it out. He's like, you got to hit this high three wood on the front of the green to have any chance of holding it and he did exactly that two putt birdie. Tom Kim could not get up and down from left and it's a one shot lead. Cantley hits the fairway on 16 Kim misses. It's a easy par five. Cantley makes it easy to putt birdie. I want to pause at this part. This is going to became really, really clear to me. So it's tied after 16, but at playing the 16th hole,

it became really clear to me. Tom Kim is leaning on Joe's goverin really, really, really hard. To the point where he almost got a little bit like, yo, quit over complicated homie. It's a lob wedge. It's a stock lob wedge. All right, just hit the shot. That was great. The the the caddy convo's all the whole back nine were great between those two. And

you know what, shout out to Joe. Good for him, man. What he's been on the back since was it before the presence cup or just since the presence cup. I think presence cup was his first event work. First shot, right? And we come out and he's, you know, I mean, there wasn't a lot of winning going on in the last five to six years for Joe. So he's, you know, I mean, there wasn't a lot of winning going on the last five to six years for Joe. So that's pretty cool to see those two, like, hop right because I mean, I can see Tom Kim being, you know, ex a little exhausting to Cady for that that relationship, taking a little bit more time to develop. But I mean, hats off to both those guys, like they're, they are, I mean, hats off to both those guys. Like they are, they're kind of a little spieth and and and griller going on, right?

Like if I like the patients for it, that's a great process. Just like talk me through every shot. And I don't care if it's annoying. That's what we're doing. Yeah, I was interesting. He's in the right rough only has like two, twenty seven or something, but it's over water, firm greens, no shot at the green.

And he just has to tell him like, stop getting tempted by trying to get this too far down there. We need to hit like a 90 yard shot. And back into the fairway, there's nothing to be gained by getting any closer than that. And you bring in the water. And then you have to get up to the third shot. He's got 97 yards flat, or 99 yards flag 94 cover. And there's just this law of conversation about about what, what to hit there. And yeah, finally, Joe ends it with like, it's not that complicated. Hit the shot. Even the announcer's had a good laugh about that.

But that was the addition again, because we've said a million times of good on course audio, adds so much just interest to him. I was sitting there watching with Hannah, and she was like, that was really cool. Because like her ears perked up watching that and the attention just, it keeps your attention that much longer.

So, they're tidal even 16. They both 2 both two put par on 17 and can't lay steps up. And it's, it's just worth acknowledging. Can't lay's dominance on this golf course. He won this event in 2017. He's finished runner up two other times. He's finished a tie for eighth, I think last year, which is, I think his worst finish he's ever had in this tournament. Steps up on 18.

And as someone said on Twitter, unfortunately, I said, it reminded me of watching the O play because I, all right, we're going to take less driver to play it safe. I'm not a barn, man. I'm not. If I didn't, I didn't look up from my dresser building and be like, damn, that looks, that, that spoke to me deeply. A little, a little chloroform ball, you know, up the key with the three wood, which is that's very true. Three wood goes left for me. But like, oh, God, I was trying to play smart and I put it in a bush. Yes. And then he tries to punch it through two bushes, which I don't know.

Candle's caddy was kind of like really selling them on that play of like, I'm I'll defend that plate. Here's the deal. So he's in the rocks in a desert in a bush. And he's tied. And Tom Kim is in the middle of the fairway after canally pulls it left. Kim is in the middle of the fairway. His options at that point are to take it on playable and drop in the rocks like into actual rocks. It's not gravel. Like it's rocks in the desert. And he has to get that up and down from there. So you're dropping to hitting three from almost certainly a bad lie over water from a bad angle.

And that would be you'd be relying on a miracle shot to like 50 feet and then making the putt. Like that's so he played to win the tournament. What's what sucks is when you have to hit a really risky shot that is just a punch out to the fairway. It seems like very minimal upside and And that desert stuff, the sagebrush and whatever he had in front of him, it can look like you can hit it right through it and it can just gobble up a golf ball and it has nowhere to go.

No chance to rule. Every time I've played in Arizona or New Mexico, it almost looks like from a distance, like you're gonna have a shot in that stuff and it's just like a lunar landscape out there. Like you got, it's just, it's totally unplayable. It's like every hole is just surrounded by, it might as well be a lake, you know what I mean?

Like you're just not, you're not playing it out of that stuff. So tough break there. Oh, joining us into the pod to come and fresh off his podcast from CBS Sports Kyle Porter. Kyle's been a while. How are you buddy? Tom Kim's world, we're just living in it. How are we doing?

We're good. We were just breaking down the last hole, you know, friend of the pod on Twitter said it reminded him of how I would play a whole fine hit three wood, playing it safe off the tee, and then trying to hit a punch out through a couple of bushes and then taking the unplayable. And then and then sinking the 40th wonderful triple of class, the classy-ass triple there. then taking the unplayable and then then sink in the 40th waterfall triple.

I've classy classy ash triple there. It was a great seven as far as seven scale. Excellent seven. I mean, one of the best I've seen for sure, you know? So what I liked about this was this was the play to win the tournament and for someone that can't lay like a solo second, it can't mean that much to you. It really can't.

If it was Tom Kim in there and you know, or Matthew Niesmith in there that solo second probably would have meant a whole heck of a lot more. It might have been the wrong decision, but it was the decision. If you wanted to win that golf tournament, you had to get that miraculously through the bush into the fairway and get it up and down and make Tom Kim make Bernie to beat you. That was that was the only chance. Kyle, would you like the decision?

Yeah. Yeah, I did. I thought it was fine. I was interesting because it was kind of like, as it played out, Tom Kim and Skoveran were kind of like, oh, we just have to not hit this 50-yard short into the water and this is it. So it was just such a horrible position for Cantalai though. I mean, there's no way to advance that, but there's the risk, somebody said this, it

might have been you, Sally, the risk of dropping it and trying to get up and down from there is it's impossible. You can't do it. So I thought all things considered, I thought it was the right call. If it was Thursday, it had been a horrible call. It would have been very, right. Right. I thought going, I mean, I don't know how badly he needed to try to hit it on the green once he dropped. But at that point, we're talking about getting solo second. And I actually appreciate so what the truth that like Lee Roy Jenkins, it's a little bit like I don't care.

I don't care that much about. Also, they were him as caddy were talking about for second place too. Like pre shot. He was like, okay. So if I make six, which I would relate it to deeply. I'm like, all right, yo, wait a second. Like if I make six, here, does that mean anything? Is that important? Like we are disaster planning. It was great stuff. That whole, the all the player caddy stuff, the whole back time was great. So you got to remember, I got deemed a semi-match play situation. So I don't know if that means like some of the holes are match play and some are stroke play, but that that could have played into it as well. It was like the USAM, like stroke play to get to match play,

right? That's got to, that's a semi-match play situation but all right let's get I think Kyle is such a great person to bring into this because no one I think of no one else that helps me get way over hyped about a young player that Kyle does so I mean what what is it what is a realistic projection for Tom Kim and I I'm not really joking when I ask this I'm a little bit joking but I'm not really joking when I ask good Tom I'm a little bit joking, but I'm not really joking when I ask, could Tom Kim be the all-time money winner in PGA Tour history? He certainly could be. Who did you, you said that about, you said Sungjae was going to win like 50 mil and that's like standard deviations off, right?

Yeah, I think, I think Sungjae is going to win a lot more than that. But we're entering, we're entering an outrageous money era on the PGA tour. And Tom Kim has won twice before he has turned 21. Now listen, a lot of stars have burned out and don't last 30 years or whatever it would take to do that. But I just want to say the start of this career is better than speeds. And look how hyped we got about speeds. Like I am fully on board the Tom Kim hype train.

I think we can talk about a couple things that may limit him just a little bit, but I'm wondering if I'm either getting joined on this train or if I'm getting heat checked right now. Well, it feels a little bit, we're just talking about this earlier on my CVS podcast, but it feels a little bit more a cow at you in that he's not, he's not crazy long, right? But he flushes everything.

Like he hits it so good. And he's got that, you know, he's got that interesting dynamic where he's not super excitable. Like he doesn't get, you know, even, I give the example, like in press conference, at an Saturday night at the Presidents' Cup, somebody was trying to walk him into like an I want JT take, like they were trying to get him to say, I want JT and he wouldn't say it, which is for sure the right call.

Like you don't want to say that. But he also is very exciting. He's not afraid to show his emotions. He's not like, can't lay where he just, you know, doesn't do anything at all. So I really like the balance of how he carries himself, but he's also not afraid to be exciting. And so I don't know, man, like, you know,

these tournaments that he's winning is Triners and Windham. They are, I'm not, I was looking at the, the Data Golf. This is why you brought me on to talk Data Golf,, I was looking at the data golf. This is why you brought me on a talk data golf, but I was looking at the data golf like, what's I'm gonna get out of here? I'm going to bounce. What are the hardest tournaments to win? So they've got a category. It's like a top five player wins these tournaments X percent of the time. So the US Open is 4%. It's really low. That's the hardest one. Shriners is 8% and Wyndham is also 8%. So these are not, those are ranked 15th out of all the professional events this year.

So I think it's easy to just sort of write it off and say like, oh, he just won Shriners and Wyndham, that's not, those are not a big deal. And they're not, if you're looking at the big boy stuff, but I think the whole of professional golf, to win both those at 20 and your first 18 PJ true events, that's pretty massive. I think that's a pretty big deal. Or just the habit of winning before your 20. I mean, there's something to be like,

not getting, not getting rattle, like holding the lead all day, can't lay, you know, patty ice, who everyone's telling you how ice cold this guy is. He's chasing you down. And, and yeah, you just, you come out on top and that's two for two with that, that situation. So I think that's extremely impressive. I don't know if his game wows me like, you know, it's missing a little bit of flair for me. I haven't watched a ton of them. Honestly, I've been, you know, I haven't watched a ton of golf the last two months.

So I wouldn't say I've, you know, I saw a little bit of him in the presence cup. But today it's like, everything seems very, very solid. And I agree with you, Kyle, that like he doesn't, like he gets hyped almost in a lame way sometimes where you're like, okay, it's a little over the top. But he doesn't get like, he's not emotional on the downside, which I think is really interesting and, you know, that's a compliment, right?

He's like able to bring out the passion when it's gonna help him and he's able to like, you know, keep it within himself when he's, when it's not gonna benefit him. So I will say, you know, he does not project great for when they get to the big boy, big boy golf courses, right? Now, Quail Hollows was classified as a big boy golf course and he obviously more than held his own at that. I, there is something to be said for a below average length player that drives it as accurate

as he does. He has a driving accuracy skill. And that can offset, you know, the kind of the guys that don't drive it far and don't drive it that straight are the guys that I just like don't project out that well. I mean, it's just really hard to have a consistently performed week after week if you are behind the eight ball in driving. And he can pretty much make up for his lack of distance by adding more fairways, right? On certain golf courses. That's working really well for him. He has overall over the past, you know, for the majority of golf base. Since the US Open, the BMW Championship is the only tournament he played where he had negative strokes gain driving.

I mean, that's important to note. And he is trending towards, and this is working off a smaller sample size, like is trending towards, and this is working off a smaller sample size, like trending towards being an upper etchalon iron play on the PGA tour. And that combination, along with being a good putter as he is as well, is mean you're going to make a lot of money. That's a lot of really good finishes. Honestly, I don't know if that projects to a ton of wins. I think he's kind of like outperforming his win expectation a little bit on the early

front, but he also had a seventh place finish to the rocket mortgage. And he almost won the Scottish open. He missed out on the Scottish open by two shots when Zander won that in the Renaissance. So it's an interesting profile. It's not the normal profile we've seen for guys that come up, but I like the more a cow a light. I'll say light still to that. Yeah, I'm that you made. Well, after Tron said more cows going to win eight majors. I don't know that, I mean, light is still a pretty good career for Tom. I thought his major finishes in 2022 were actually instructive of what I think his major game could be in 2023 and beyond.

So he finished 23rd at the US Open, which is solid. And then T-47 at the old course, I, LACC and Oak Hill, I think are great for him, like in terms of the way he drives the ball. I mean, think about the last time we had a major at Oak Hill, it was Duffner and Furik. Not exactly two bombers of the, you know, off the tee. So I think majors in 2023 are going to be, are going to be really interesting for Tom Kim. That's interesting. That's a great, that's a great point. But, um, it's exciting,

man. It's just, it's refreshing. It's exciting to see someone that is so, uh, we had him on the pod a couple, like maybe six weeks ago or so. And he was excited about hitting ProVi ones on the range still, like that's still like that's where he's at. Now he just made, he's made four million bucks already so far. Not quite as much as you ain't no shakara made this week But we talk about that later, but I would like to I'd like to talk about can't lay for okay a couple minutes Okay, I like the bounce couple ideas off you guys first. I'd like to I'd like to make a statement He's out of the treads don't program. Oh, what as of today. I mean it looked like today was like I

Yeah, they got me to you know, I've been holding on. I thought he was still an asset to the program, but I mean, we just can't have that down the stretch. Now, he was doing some trestone things early in the back nine. Like it's just like every 15 footers going in. And you back up and explain trestone for those that may not be. Yeah. Natalie's whole vibe is like, you know, from Jason Bourne, the Bourne trilogy, just the cold blood of the sassons, but not Jason Bourne. He's the other guys they send to kill Jason Bourne, where they just have no emotion and

they look like regular dudes and they don't smile and put they know like all the kung fu and they know how to use like every weapon you could possibly imagine and they just come out of, come out of the shadows and it's great. They just steal people, you know, they just, they do bad things, but he's not Jason Bourne, right? So he's one of the other guys, highly trained killer. But I just don't feel like he hasn't closed here in recent memory. Number one, and number two, I think it was Randy or maybe you saw it that said, they kind of spotted this and I think it reiterated it today.

Can't let place so well on these birdie fest courses. You know, the the AMX classic, Shriners, obviously, he's had a career here. And it's when he's just rolling in those 15 and 20 footers, he's birdie fest. It's like, man, you gotta watch out for this guy. So I thought for sure he was gonna win on 18. And I was just, it was, I thought really out of character what he did, but maybe not, right?

Maybe he's just, he's no longer the program. And you know, until further notice, he's out. Can I allow this to be further notice? Because just in the last 16 months, he's won the Memorial, the BMW, the tour championship, along with the FedEx Cup, the Zurich this year and another BMW Championship. He's done a lot of closing.

And so I believe my day to brother here will back me up as well. Like Matt says, you're gonna get really close on a lot of these other wins too. And I just think that, this was a knock on him at a certain point in his career. And I think like he deserves a little bit of a little bit of runway from his recent success on these. That's that's my point. But for now, he's on the bench. Right. They're calling in somebody else.

At least for the foreseeable future. He's kind of into the witness protection for a little while. Exactly. Exactly. New identity has been signed. It's too hot. It's too hot. It didn't be cool off. The weird part about Cantlay, somebody said this on, it might have been when you asked for questions on Twitter, but he seems like, and we've, I've, I don't know, this is not

a new take. He seems like somebody who should just be nasty at tough majors, right? He's just got all these, like, he's got all these sweet shots and he doesn't get, he just stays in his world. He stays, he doesn't get out of control. And he just isn't, he's been so disappointed at major championships. Like that's the part that I don't really, I've had a hard time knowing like how to kind of categorize him. All these other guys, most of the other guys, you can kind of make sense of kind of what's going on. And with him, somebody, I think somebody on Twitter said,

like it doesn't make sense. It can't be with private Shriners. And suck it like the US Open. Like it should be the opposite, right? Based on his style, the way he carries himself, all that stuff. So that's the part that I've had a hard time kind of understanding.

And I think that's what's influencing my feelings of, you know, like being down on them, because I've been like a can't lay fan because I feel like I do appreciate the lack of emotion. It's a little different than it's not that much more to watch, but it's stone cold and it's different. But I have picked him in the US open. I picked him at the masters, like years and years. And it's just like, man, he's just no shows. And it's like

he only seems to play well at these, like, just go as low as you possibly can. And which is so funny because it doesn't fit his personality. Like it is. Well, it's a lot of the middle of a lot of greens. Like he's fat side of a lot of greens and that usually projects better for major championships that it does to be a tour and for some. I it doesn't make sense. It really doesn't. I mean, if you look at his, I know it's probably your home page, Porter, but you're looking at his data golf page and like, since 2019, his total stroke scheme are plus 2.2,

plus 1.5, plus 2.1, plus 2.2 plus 1.5 plus 2.1 plus 2.1 that's that's enormous. There's one off in the world above 2.0 right now and that's Rory and like that's what and it's his he's positive in every category every year every category off the tee approach around the green and putting like a non insignificant amount in each of those categories as well as ball striking is wildly consistent. So yeah, I don't know what he's supposed to do, you know, what when it comes to major championships during Shriners week, but I it's work again, continually talking about going into the next year. It's probably a little underrated how good he's been over the last four years. And why has that not turned to three top 10s in his entire major

championship career. That's outright one top five. And that was a he was not competitive at the 2019 PGA that Brooks won. So I think that is probably the biggest stain of any top player in the game right now is Kent lays major champs. He didn't have a top five at Augusta. No he got real hot. Yeah.

I think you share the lead or We're so late. He was like I was ahead and the eagle 15 and it was a can't lead and it it didn't end up coming to fruition He bogey twice after that. I think that was in 19 the cat the cat here. Well, it's interesting. I'm because I am I'm I'm glad we talked about can't like because this is you guys help me flesh out like what I'm porn, right? I've been like, oh my god, this guy's going to, he's going to tear it up like the last two years, get tear it up in the majors and then just nothing. And then, but continues to ball out in events like this, which is like, yes, deserves respect

for that. But apparently today wasn't, wasn't today on 18. I think he's a little strange in that he's almost, I don't know if this can be true. I actually thought this of Ricky Fowler at one point. He's almost overrated and underrated at the same time. Yeah. So he's underrated in like, you don't,

if you ask the ca, like just the average golf fan, like how good is Patrick Cantley? They wouldn't be able to articulate how good he actually is based on the numbers. His finishes at PJ Tour events and everything. But then he's, he's almost overrated at the same time because when you look at that front, like, betting board at majors, he's always on there and it's like, I would not, I just don't, I can't pick him, you know, like, based on anything that I see. Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, so majors. So I don't know. That's kind of weird. These weeks don't, him, you know, based on anything that I see. Yeah, I don't think so.

Yeah, so majors. So I don't know. That's kind of weird. These weeks don't like change anything about Kentless profile. Like another win this week wouldn't have really changed anything, right? It's time to do this in the big, the big, big boy events. And he's done it in elevated events or bigger PGA tour events, but it's time for majors. It really is.

One, one other thing I want to shout out from watching today was I thought Emelman was excellent on the broadcast. One point that he made that stuck out to me was they just redone this course and that probably suited someone like Tom Kim that doesn't have the experience here versus Cantlay who has a ton of experience here with just familiarity with the greens and maybe some, you know, almost like, I don't wanna say scar tissue, but it's like he had all this data on this course and now that doesn't matter. It's almost like a level playing field. So, but overall, I just felt like Imelmond was, all the whole crew was great.

They were letting the caddy player combos go and just felt very laid back. Maybe they knew everybody's watching football. So it's like whatever man, like, two things that stood out to me one. It's cool that Scofer and got a, got a bag that is, I mean, maybe the hottest bag in the world right now to, to, is that a hard, you know,

granted, he's made a lot of money off for like with Ricky Fowler over the last 10 years, but he's had a hard couple, both of those guys have had a hard, you know, granted, he's made a lot of money off with Ricky Fowler over the last 10 years, but he's had a hard couple, both of those guys have had a hard couple of years. So, it's really cool to see him with Tom Kim. And then just the Korean sort of galvanization on tour has been, has been really fun. Like those guys have, like, I don't know all of them, but Tom Kim's got a great personality. Sungjae's great. And so to see all those guys, see Woo's hilarious, to see all those guys waiting for Tom Kim at the end, kind of congratulating him.

And I thought that was kind of a cool moment. There's a lot of... Trevor, I'm going to talk about this too in the pod this past week, just about the giving the presence couple a little more runway to have an effect on golf. Without the presence couple a few weeks ago, it's a different experience watching Tom Kim this week. It's a different experience watching Seaboo Kim in the future, different watching Sungjae.

I mean, seeing Sungjae in a crowded room of people doing Gangnam style, like that changes. Honestly, changes my viewing of him in the future, right? It just shines a different light on him. Tom Kim's reactions to made puts today are not the same as they were in the presence cup. Probably good decision on his part. But it just makes you, I guess, it shines a little light on, you know, kind of the impact that presence cup can have. Now, it's also what we're saying. This is a fall, a Sunday in the fall that no one was really watching and the impact is that that word's probably not the right word. But

look, if for the golf sickos, it does add a little extra layer to it. So I mean, yeah, look at Mito Pereira T4 as well as SH Kim coming off the corn fairy tour and a top five finish for him at T4, Sung J. Finish 7th, Jason Day at 8th, Seabull Kim at tie for 8th, like the both Trevor Humbens team and a few other guys that were not on his team at a enormous week. So I don't know if that means anything in the big picture, but that was no worthy. So, I don't want to go full down the leaderboard,

but I just want to call attention. We probably should have done this in recent weeks. Taylor Montgomery, I'm calling for the ball here. I'm going to call a warning shot. We're putting him on the Cameron Young radar. Okay, I don't know what this scale is. I don't know what it looks like. I don't know if he's not necessarily the ball striker striker the Cameron young is and I think he's may been

Overly boosted by a couple wildly hot putting weeks, but his rise over the last I don't know going back to you know this summer has been Extremely noteworthy. He's basically the last three months has been one of the top 10 American golfers in the world and Basically, the last three months has been one of the top 10 American golfers in the world. And, you know, look, it's weird time of year. It's smaller fields, but he had an outstanding year on the Corn Ferry tour and flipping over the PGA tour. I think he finished 15th this week. Yeah, T15 coming off a couple other nice finishes to start the year T9 at Santerson and third at the Fortinet.

Just calling a alarm bells to this one. This guy could be on a pretty mediocre rise. So since April, so since the week after the masters, mostly these were corn fair events, but he's played in like 12 events. He has two miscuts. Otherwise, his worst finish was this week, which was T 15. That's his worst finish, which is just it's extraordinary. It's T9 T4 T3 T2 T8 solo second T4 T13 T4 on top of those two miscuts, which one was US open. He's played some really, really good golf and I'm just putting them on the radar for for Rome next year. I'm radar. I'm not calling them being on the team monitoring your monitoring the situation because lots 11 and 12 are kind of, you know, could be in flux for next year and I'm

reminding the situation as well said. If I was going to give a shout out, it would be too young here, Justin Lauer and also the Comcast Business Top 10 race updates here, you know, in the first one, two events of the season, really heating up on the leaderboard, but Lauer is in 10th in the Comcast business top 10. And he came, I think T five last week and T 20 this week. So the hitters are hitting and it's good to see Lauer like, you know, hopefully just getting a head start right on the year. I know he's, he's come, he's had some really close calls on the corn fairy tour. And I love seeing him build momentum. One of the best guys out there.

If we're doing the leaderboard shout outs, I'm going to go Davis Thompson led the USO 2020 US Open at Wingfoot after round one. He had a nice season on the corn fairy had I think five or six top like top five's top eights. And he's a good player. He's got a lot of talent. He finished T-12 this week with a couple other guys. So shout out to him. Last one I had was Sungjae shot from the native area on Thursday. I don't know if you guys saw this. Just hit an absolutely outrageous shot from the desert from that rocky desert to about an inch and that was that was a freaking ridiculous shot. Last thing actually is television windows for this event remain bad three hours on

Sunday literally couldn't watch Tom Kim and Patrick Catlay in the early part not great but also I think their mind set is just like dude it's NFL like do you really you really care that much and I think the answer around the world is probably no. So, well, I mean, there just needs to be, it would probably help golf. I know this is not really possible, but if there was an offseason, you know, so I, we're getting there.

One more year. I know we're working on it. And I know it's, it's great for young, you know, up and comers to get starts. And that's the goal of the PGA tour. But yeah, it's like, do I, would I rather turn on the Rams? Cowboys game? Yeah, probably, you know, up and commerce to get starts and that's the goal of the PGA tour. But yeah, it's like, do I would I would rather turn on the Rams Cowboys game? Yeah, probably, you know, but it's at the same time that you do, you watch a tournament like this, you get to see some other guys. If you're very into golf, it's, it's worth tuning in for, right? Like it is, it was, it was worth

my time this afternoon. Not that the tour needs to cater to idiots like us, but I wonder why I thought the farmers ending on Saturday was such a success, and maybe financially and business-wise it wasn't, but I wonder why they don't try that more in the fall stuff, because I don't know, it seems like you would catch a lot more in the fall though, that's probably. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. But I would like to see them experiment with stuff like that in the in the last fall.

Yes. We don't have this again. Next year. All right. We got to move on to the fun stuff. But as you mentioned, you know, if you want to watch the Cowboys game, Neil, that you're you're in line with a lot of the people because the NFL action is in full swing at the Draft King. Oh God, that's a good transition at an official sports betting partner of the NFL. We're talking touchdowns big plays and even bigger wins and new customers can bet just $5 on any NFL team to win and you get $200 in free bets if they do win if that's not enough everyone can boost their Winnings with Draft King stepped up same game parlay's right now for every you add. You can boost your winnings up to 100% with pal it's bigger than ever. Why bet on football anywhere else to make things even sweeter. You can throw down

on stepped up same game parlays once per game day all season long. So download the draft King sportsbook app now use promo code NLU to get $200 and free bets if your team wins when you place a $5 bet on any football game code NLU to get $200 in free bets if your team wins when you place a $5 bet on any football game code NLU, only the Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL minimum age and eligibility restrictions apply. See show notes for details. It's good to be back up in the New York, New Jersey area. I know. I'm jealous. I'm jealous of you in that regard. What happens? This happened Saturday night. I don't know if a lot of people were watching this. I actually know for a fact, not a lot of people were watching this, but big news.

Euhenio Lopez-Shakara wins live Bangkok. I know I got a lot to say about this. Porto, I'm going to throw it to you first. What's your reaction to this? Well, first of all, my guy goes out there. He's wearing a golf sawty hat. An Oklahoma state, big 12 shirt. Your boy.

That's your boy. Yeah, I shouldn't. I just am among my boys. A pistol peat belt. And like another one of your boys. You're homey. And like dress is a huge Oklahoma state stand. And like dress socks.

I mean, did you see the look? Did you, I mean, did you see? I don't, like, I don't need a dress code shorts, whatever. I don't care. He just looks like, just looks like me, playing nine with my son after work or something. It just looked absurd. I think the other thing is I don't really know.

And I know Datagoff has tried to sort of normalize the, everything's getting normalized in Saadi Golf, but actually normalize the statistical, what does this mean? How hard is this tournament to win or whatever? everything's getting normalized in Saadi golf, but actually normalized the statistical, what does this mean? How hard is this tournament to win or whatever? It's just hard for me when people are like, oh, this is a new, exciting, 22 year old talent.

And it's like, okay, well, he basically won the Sanderson with half a Sanderson. Plus, I got a lot to say about this. If you'll allow me. And so it's just, I don't really know what to do with it. And I think there's honestly, like as I'm, I didn't watch it live. I was on a father-son trip.

I wasn't gonna get up at two in the morning or whatever. I did watch all the 20 minute highlight package that they put together, which was good. And it made me sad that you watch this guy, you know, I can see guess he has like really talented, he's good, he can hit it. Am I ever going to see him at the US Open? Am I ever going to see him at the PGA championship?

Now maybe that maybe he qualifies as sectionals, maybe they get a DBR points, whatever, I just it made me sad to think like this might be the most like the biggest stage I ever see him on, which is not really a very big stage at all. So Lopez Chacara wins live Bangkok and event that he did not qualify for on a tour that he did not qualify for. And he is by all accounts, a good player. I watched him with the Tim Aquana collegiate when it was here. He was an outrageous ball striker, shaky putter, but he, I think he hit like 35 of the first

36 screens. He's an incredible player. But the whole point of qualification is that you have to go physically beat a bunch of really, really good players, a bunch, like a huge volume. And that's an important part here. You have to go beat them for a chance to play on the biggest tours. And it helps explain him taking the easy way out and going to go play at live. He got to bypass all of the qualification criteria that are required for a professional golfer. It, it, I can understand that decision. Like I really do. I understand that decision.

He just made $5 million this week. You know, long it would have taken him to make $5 million on the PGA tour, even get to the PGA tour. It would have been a long time. I get that decision. He just made $5 million this week. You know how long it would have taken him to make $5 million on the PGA tour, even get to the PGA tour. It would have been a long time. I get that. I don't need that explained to me, but it does not explain why there should be OWGR points assigned to these events.

It gets, it's hard to contextualize him winning this event when his stroke's gain profile is equal to like Ben Griffin on the PGA tour. Like that's what the data is telling me that he is. So he goes over and wins this event like what is how are we supposed to know what that means? Like it's a closed qualification system. I know this is not a sexy thing. It doesn't fit in a tweet. It's not easily explained how important this qualification aspect of it. But I just don't understand how we're supposed to even

estimate what this means. When, again, James Piot, who's professional record and amateur record is, I know you won the USAAM, but like, there's a lot of reason to throw question marks behind that. And if Chacar is like profile, is equivalent to Ben Griffin.

Ben finished T24 at the Sanderson last week. He played on the Canadian tour, Latino America tour, the corn fairy tour and now earned his PGA tour card at age 26 by beating a shit load of really good players on the golf course over the course of last year's corn fairy schedule. And he finished eighth on that points list at the after playing an entire season of measurable events. He proved himself to get a shot at the PGA tour. Shakira skipped all of that.

Okay, he bypassed all of that and he may very well be a great player. I just don't know how we're supposed to know that Norman Zhang was supposed to be this take over the world guy. And once he had to go through the ringer of pro golf, it did not work out that way. Like imagine if Norman Zhang got to start his career playing no cut 48 man events for $20 million each week. How much easier does that sound than beating thousands of golfers out for status on the real tour?

So, the real reasons for doing this are obvious, and that's money. And I just simply can't understand how anyone can look at this and argue that this should be worth a certain amount of points. Well, I think I agree with just about all that. Maybe not as vehemently as you. But I know I point stands for me. I think what this I and I grew at the larger point of what's the difference between this and like if Logan Paul wanted to play golf and it was like, you know, check it out.

He's got like a ton of followers. Like this would really help us get some views on YouTube. Like let's get him into the tournament, right? And like what, you know, kind of like what he's doing in boxing, right? Like, oh, this is going to bring people to watch boxing. Do I want to watch that kind of boxing? Not really. No, I don't care.

I don't want to see him fight like like over the hill at you know, MMA guys or UFC guys like that's not really what I'm here to see and I think that this that's not what like shout out to Lopez like good win, you know, good for him. Good. I'm happy like that his decision paid off, but I think that it what you're saying, Sally's it illuminates the fact that like there isn't a true qualification system here. So what's to stop live from just being like, yo, let's just follow the attention. It could be, like, we just need to get the, that's when it turns into a glorified program. And I don't think there's that much of a difference, honestly. I know that might sound like, maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit, but in some ways it's no, it's, it wouldn't be any

different if they just said, hey, yeah, like Jake Paul, come on, you can plug off with us because like we need the attention. So, and he, you know, let's see, oh, if he comes in last, it'll be a great publicity stunt. So in that way, I do agree with you where I, where I differ a little bit is if somebody does want to watch this, like, I don't want to tell them that they don't find it entertaining, but I don't know if it's something that the other thing I'm curious about is they want to do this world tour. That sounds great, but like, I don't know if they thought through like, nobody wants to wake up and watch this in Bangkok, you know, like Porter, what you said about like 2 a.m. like, I don't,

like nobody cares enough to get up and watch like, nobody want to watch the Shriners this week. That's the good time slot. Like you know what I'm saying? I'm questioning the strategy a little bit just with the world tour concept is what I'm getting at. Do you think we're closer to Jake Paul playing on live or to Eugene O'P playing in the Masters. Yeah, I don't know. At least at a pro-amp. At least at a pro-amp. Why are you studying at a pro-amp? That's like, they're going to start doing stuff like that

because they're going to have to keep the hype train rolling. So it's like, well, about who they signed. Just to clarify one thing, you said they're new. I've got no problem with people watching this and being entertained by this. As long as we can have the conversation about what it is. We can't pretend it can be both things. It's not real competitive golf.

And I have another point to make on that, but I want to turn it over to Porter here. Well, I've got a quote here from Sergio because I read their press conference transcript just because I'm a psychotic person afterward. And so the question was, when a young player today turns pro out of college, or even in your case is a teenager, there's this trepidation because there's a financial commitment

you have to pay your own way. Obviously, this is a different path that's now available. He was able to come out here with a little bit of a base and maybe not so much pressure talking about Eugenium. And Sergio said, and I hated this answer, because it just, it gets it everything that I dislike about, about live and that I want to not be true about it. But he said, I think this is a great path. He said, to be able to come out here with

good talent and for them to be able to play a little bit more freely and show what they can really do without having to be super intense. Like if I don't make the cut, what am I going to do? And am I going to be able to play the next three weeks or something like that? I think that's huge. And it's like, man, that's professional golf, right? Is that is that not to go phoizing or but that pressure there of like spit brother. Yeah, yeah, you can't eat, you can't spit. I don't know how he's surviving. Uh, guys, we can pass out. He's locked up.

He's locked up. But it isn't that. I mean, man, like the stuff that somebody asked me that a day, like, what do you love about Progolf? And my answer was, I love it. I love whatever makes guys hands shake, like when they're playing golf. For me, that's different than for Sully, which is different than for Sergio, which is different than for, you know, other guys. And I understand the idea of like having like being financially settled or

whatever, but I think it rips away some of the stuff that the pure stuff that we love about sports and specifically golf, which is, man, what makes your handshake? What like really freaks you out? And I wanna see that because somebody that can overcome that can go out and play in majors and win major championships. And again, like on a personal level,

does this make total, like a Sergio's answer make total sense? Like, yes, like I, if I was up and coming player and that option was presented to me instead of, you know, grinding my way through stops in Argentina and Uruguay and all the places that these mini tours play before getting the PGA tour. Like, you don't have to explain that to me. I'm, I'm way in. I think everything just comes down to wanting both things

and it comes down to, and I just want to make this point clear about the OWGR. The OWGR is not the all ruling power of the game of golf. It is specifically is like the qualification criteria that the biggest tournament hosts have come up with. It is the criteria they have decided you need to meet to qualify for their events. If you want to play in their system, you must comply with their criteria. They're not trying to govern anything to do with live.

They're not trying to mess with anything that live is doing. That's that's their ecosystem. If you want to be part of their system to live, if you want to be part of the masters, the US Open, the PGA Tour, the British Open, the PGA Championship, the International Federation, the PGA Tours, the DP World Tour. If you want to be a part of this system, you have to play by their rules.

It's not some, I've seen so many comments of like, how can this group be independent when all these people are on the board? No, that is what it is. They have set up this system that has said, these are the biggest board. No, that is like the system. That is what it is. Like they have set up this system that has said these are the biggest tournaments right here and live guys are the ones that want to play in those events. Right? So it's fairly simple. It's not some like governmental entity that has to be independent and like all of these board members need to recuse themselves from any, you know, new tours entering this thing because

it's what they have all group as a group decided what matters qualification wise and I just I'm blown away I through this lens It's even more ridiculous that these live guys are crying about not receiving points for these events so far We haven't gotten the mean of tourists done yet this week, but I just which was cool by the way which was cool by the way. It was, it's finally clicked for me this week that was like, what are we talking about here? It's like a fraternity rule almost, or I don't know what the proper comp is, but it's like, hey, if you wanna be a part of this system,

like we're not gonna change our rules for you, do you wanna be a part of this? Comply with this. If not, go do your own thing. You cannot have it both ways. Well, in the argument, I think I put this on Twitter, but the argument is, well, we've got five of the top guys, or whatever.

And it's like, yo, think about the logic of that for like two seconds, right? Because if that's your argument, then the seminal member pro should get OWGR points. If that's your argument, then the seminal member pro should get ODIB's J.R. points. If that's your argument, you're essentially saying the structure doesn't matter. All these parameters that ODIB's J.R. set up, they don't matter. It only matters who has the best guys. Well, then if the three of us go start a league where it's a three-hole event

and we get Rory and JT to play in it and you know, 50 other jokers, why don't we get out of JRPOints? We got two, we got two of the best guys. You know, like I just, I think the logic of we have the best guys is, is so weak. Like it is just just it doesn't play and it it it undercuts the sort of reason the OWGR exists to begin with. And again, I go back to the qualification thing. That's where the point that just keeps I keep coming back to right is again, it's not sexy and again, it doesn't like clip very well for arguments and it's probably not going to change anyone's mind on this. But there's something to you can't have full appreciation for how talented I'm just going to grab a name randomly off the leaderboard Grayson SIG who finished T 44 this week. You can't really understand how good Grayson is and how many Grayson

SIGs there are. Like that is kind of the whole point. A closed 48 person system that includes Chase Capca that includes James Piot, that includes whoever's on the ironheads that have been horrific. Like you can't, let's not the same as needing to beat guys on a week to week basis to keep your job. It's not the same. It's not the same. I'm not saying these guys are laxing and not practicing. And I'm not saying the guys over on live are not talented Like I don't think anyone's saying that it's just there is a point to competitive golf and it so much of it Falls back on qualification. It really does and I would I would add to that a qualification and Consistency I think what really separates like the best golfers in the world

It's like what you were talking about with Cantlay earlier and the Stroke's gain stuff It's just like the ability to do it week in, week out over months and years. And that's what you see like with the Monday qualifying system, for instance, in, you know, like traditional like pro golf, like random dudes that you've never heard of go out and shoot 61 or 62. And like the like succeeding on the corn fairy tour requires you to go super low like all four days. And then once you get to the PGA tour, you almost have to shift your game to like, Oh, wait, I got to I got to play a little different because it's set up a little bit

differently. And so I think that's where these no cut events like what you're going back to and Kyle, what you said earlier of like when there isn't that pressure, like there's no, there's no cauldron, like it sucks the competitive juice out of it. And there's no, there's also no long term, like for them to say, like, oh, we've got five to 10 best guys. It's like you do now until they're like, you know, cougar from top gun, they lose the edge, right? Like it's truly like, it's like, but if they have, if they are, they don't feel the pressure, then it's hard to say that they're five of the best, you know, anymore.

I mean, I don't think that goes away this month or next month, but in six months, I think it has an impact, right? Like if you start rewinding six months ago and we think about like who was like, you know, like people come and go in professional golf, it's the like, it's the longevity, you know, like people come and go and professional golf. It's the, like, it's the longevity, the sustainability, I think that really makes you one of the top five or 10 best players. And I just don't think you're going to find that on the live tour.

I think one thing I have a hard time reconciling and this is where the PGA true deserves some pushback is. And I think you guys probably talked about this, but you have to have a, well, you don't have to. I'm curious what you guys think about. Should there be a better path for college stars into the, the, the PGH word, not the corn fairy tale, but the PGH word, because, you know, I don't know. There's just such a disc, and you watch these other sports, you watch, I don't know, there's just such a disc and I can't you watch these other sports you watch and it's different, but you watch college football and you watch two at Alabama

and you're like, man, I can't wait to see him in the NFL. He goes straight into it and all this stuff. And on the PJ tour, it's almost like Major League Baseball where you get buried for two or three years in the minors and then you research like a Norman Chong. Should there be more opportunity or a more frictionless path for those guys to get 5, 10, 15 starts in a year and see if they can go do it? It's a great question and I think the answer in a perfect world is yes. I think it is way more complicated in the world that we exist in, which is a membership organization that is pretty much designed to keep guys out.

Right? And so that is a flaw in it. And I think that there's a lot that can be done at the highest level of pro golf. And I mean, that PGA tour in terms of connectivity between your tours and your systems and that the dudes that need to bounce between corn fairy tour and PGA tour should have, there should be a point system that's weighted to blend those numbers, right? If you are a corn fairy guy and you qualify for the US Open, you should get some kind of credit for that in your corn fairy race. And there's just the way those systems connect is not very good.

And it does end up keeping guys down at a level for too long. But I always maintain the COVID year was was weird with Zalatoris and Zalatoris had to stay there for, you know, ridiculously, it felt like a ridiculous long, really long period of time to stay on the cornferrey torquing, so you know, good as talent was. But in a year like you should get if you are a speed level talent, you're making it out to the PJ tour and you're going to be there. And you spend a year, like you should, if you are a speed level talent, you're making it out to the PJ tour and you're going to be there. And you spend a year playing and you're going to, you know, you have seven sponsors exemptions that you can use at any time.

There's routes up. There really are. I think they're probably air on the side of making it a little too hard on those guys to bust through. But I'd still think that is a, I guess, are you asking that in terms of, is this going to be a flaw in your system that is going to cause more of your young guys to go take the money from live?

That is a question that should definitely be asking themselves. And they have that. I think Lope has been showing us, it's probably a yes. Yeah, and I think even like the Preston Kudist, where he, you know, he didn't get out there till what June or May or whatever. And I just think you gotta have some sort of like an average in terms of your, if a college star is not getting

jumping out there until the middle of the year, you have to average out those numbers and get that guy onto the PGA. You can't, I think you're right, so you can't make it more difficult for young stars to become PGA tour stars because that's going to push them toward live. And that is horrible for your product. That is just such a bad business decision. And I get that there has to be this meritocracy.

And I'm for that in a lot of ways. I think they've solved some of their downside of it by guaranteeing the money and, you know, like, fronting the money for traveling all that stuff. I think that's a good thing, but I just don't, you shouldn't be making it as hard as possible for a top five college golfer in the world to get to the PGA tour.

And they've made changes on that front and also the idea of, with Q school now, top five finishers do get a PGA tour card, right? There is, they route, there's a couple more routes there. And I just, I guess I look at like, more Kawah, Wolf, Hoveland, like these dudes got through the on sponsors exemptions, right? Like they got a ton of starts lined up pretty easily

and made the tour rather easily. I think they do run the risk of like, and I want to be clear, like, Chikara is not that level of player. It was never really projected to be that level of player as an amateur. He was not that big of a superstar. He's a good player, but I just don't think he separates himself from the pack nearly like those guys do.

And so do they run the risk of like next tier guys, making the leap instead of like, oh shit, I gotta go beat out all these experienced corn fairy guys? Yeah, 100%. Like I bet it's definitely a risk. I just don't know if like, I don't know how deep down the list you gotta go to like hand out spots to guys to prevent them going to live.

Because also at the same time, there's a limited amount of spots that live. So it seems. So you know, you don't have to worry about however many guys per year, you know, jumping ship, I guess. I think they could build on the PJ tour university thing. Yeah, I think that's a way to, you know, I think the foundation of that is fairly good.

And you could, you know, you can make it a real thing to where that's, you know, it should be highlighted more of like, hey, this is an entry point to becoming the next more cow or the next speed. And I know they've tried to do that. But I think that's something that they could really highlight more. Yeah. And it's also worth noting the, you know, five guys, I think it's five guys still right there from college go straight to the corn fairy tour. It blow people's minds, a lot of people's minds. How many guys out there are fighting annually for corn fairy-tore spots? It would blow your freaking mind.

How many guys like the first stage, second stage, final stage, how many dudes that are really, really freaking good at golf that can't get status on the corn fairy-tore? And they hand it to you coming out of college. That's a coveted spot. It really is a very, very coveted spot. But again, that speaks to the layers and layers and layers of the competitive golf

ecosystem. Yeah, and a problem, I think a problem that the tour has or an issue with the current structure is like, I'm at, I was at some engagement parties this weekend and people like, you get the question, hey, what's going on with this live thing? Just live. What's going on with this OW, what's going on with this live thing? Just live. What's going on with this OW what's the OWGR? And it's like truly, I in my head, I'm like, oh God, like how much time do you have?

Because it's hard for me to explain to say, I can do it, but it's gonna take 15 to 20 minutes. So my answer is, like, would you like to stand here with me for 20 minutes? Because that's how long it's gonna take me. Now, and I will explain it to you, but it's not intuitive. It's very like the system, the qualification stuff

makes sense, the more you dig into it and study it, but it's hard to explain to people. And I think that's a problem for these college kids of like, what's the best strategy for me to get my tour card the quickest? Or an even simpler way to put that is, what's the best strategy for me to get my tour card the quickest or an even simpler way to put that is what's the best strategy for me to like financially secure myself as a professional golfer? Well, that answers becoming a little easier with the opportunity to go to live. And so that's, you know, that's that is a massive blind side or like the PGA twermbike flanked here by that, you know what I mean? Like over the next three to four years, that's tough. I'll say it's complicated. Like you said, if you're trying to win an argument on Twitter,

it is. It's like tricky how all that stuff works. But if you are a professional golfer, like these guys understand this, like you don't have to explain that to the pros. And that's what the system is there for, right? Like sure. But it's hard for the general population of like casual golf fans.

Someone that's like, like the people that were asking these this question on Saturday, it's like they are genuinely a golf fan, but it's also like, they don't follow it close enough to understand the nuance of it. And so they're, they're a question to me. It was like, why, why can't the live guys be in the OWGR? And I'm like, well, it's been around, you know, I'm explaining that it's been around for 30, 40, 50 years. And there has to be some type of benchmark to be a qualified tour. And they've done that to the last 20 tours that have submitted their application. And so like, what, we're just going to say, like, you guys don't have to, we're just going to like grandfather you in when like Jake Paul is going to be playing in three months. No, we're not doing that. Like I fully, and for that reason,

I agree that like I don't think the live guys until that if they hit all the requirements, they should get into the review process and wait there 12 months and then become a sanctioned tour. If they hit all the requirements, I'm not saying like you can't be in the club. If you don't hit all the requirements, come on in guys. I saying like you can't be in the club. If you don't hit all the if you hit all the requirements, come on in guys. Like you can't skip the fucking line. That's the

problem. I hate my entitled attitude about it. Yep. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm sure it's going to be a fabulous transition into the meaner to our stuff. So I'll be like y'all's next video series should be Neil just going around to random people at parties trying to explain the OWGR. I'm not bad at it. I'll be honest with you. I can do it. But you know, you get a little whiskey in me and you can like, yes, very quickly.

That's the problem. It's like, there's so many little avenues of like, like the just going through the requirements. Like, well, there are 54 holes, but there are some, you know, there are some World Golf WGC's. Those are 54 holes too, but those are different. So we're gonna set those aside over here for a second, and we'll talk about those in a minute. So it's not, it's not intuitive. It's a mess. It's a mess, and that's a problem. Well, we can talk about that. And it's something that I don't think that live is gonna be able to buy their way out of and speaking of being able to buy things, when personal finance connects you to both your

funds and the stuff that matters, that's money and that's cash app. Know what else is money? You can choose your own cash tag. I would say, you and you as Shakara, I'm making $5 million this week instead of playing corn fairy tour Q school this week. That's money. I would say live spending. Neil, I know you're a big CPM guy, but I might count. If I look at the viewership numbers,

averaging around 20,000 viewers for a $25 million per person, plus all the other expenses, that's about spending about $2,000 in per-s money per viewer on YouTube. That's money in sending spending. Oh, those CPA numbers, baby. That's money in sending spending all those CPA numbers, baby. Sending spending, saving investing, splitting, tipping, donating, gifting, or just typing numbers all in a single finance app.

That is money and that's cash app. It's great. I use it every single day. I use it multiple times a day. Checking out how my stocks are doing. They're not doing great. But you can download cash app from the App Store or Google Play store today. Add your cash to the 80 million and counting using the app and use code NLU.

When you sign up, you get a free $15 plus $10 goes to youth on course. That's code NLU on cash app. And then again, free $15 plus $10 goes to youth on course. Yours truly explaining the OWGR, that's money. That's where you ask that's conversation you want to be in at the bar at the engagement party. That is that's a money conversation. I do want to start with with Bryson and Brooks winging up there together. Bryson's quote when asked about OWGR ruling he said they're delaying the inevitable. We've hit every mark in their criteria to not get points is kind

of crazy as at least as I believe we have the top players in the world. We're going to keep dropping down the rankings until it gets to the point that our rankings won't even matter. And that's what they're trying to accomplish. And I hope everyone can see right through that instead of believing the lies they've been told. Guys, that's true. Yeah, I'm going to the starting never guy never misses as the 10th grade know it all guy in, you know, your freaking chemistry class of like just like he his quotes are just five of five every time.

It's a true sewing, raping situation. You're not going to believe this next part though, that no one there followed up to actually challenge him on this ridiculous statement. That was so surprising to me, right, because of all the journalism that's going on in honesty coming out of this tour. But it just, uh, right, fresh off his long drive runner up finish, just freaking feel in himself right now. How can we say we hit every mark in their criteria? Like, literally, a literal second grader,

I can explain to them that they have not hit every mark in their criteria. So who is he trying to convince with this? Did he, did one person read this and be like, oh, shit, they are, they haven't met the criteria. They should get points. There's so many times in Bryson's career where I, in most of the press conference, I haven't been in because I usually just travel to majors, but I just wanted to say, hey, could you, could you break that down for me? Like, could you explain that in detail for me? Because there's no, there's absolutely no.

And most of it is just pseudo science nonsense that I would love to hear him try to explain, but there's no way he could, he doesn't even know what I doubt he even knows what the criteria are. Much less whether live has hit them or not. He should come talk to me. I got you. All right, let's talk of Minotaur because on Wednesday, the mean at or which is the Middle East and North Africa tour, uh, announced its own strategic alliance with live golf. Do you hear that?

Do you hear that music? Oh my God. Is that the mean at or it is back after being mothballed during COVID? Uh, the, uh, live got the upstart circuit led by Greg Norman and backed by Saudi Arabia's public investment fund as live golf continues It's quest for official world golf ranking points. It's events will now be sanctioned by the Dubai based developmental tour Which is recognized by the OWGR. This was a wild day on Wednesday on Twitter. I feel like I was taking crazy pills I have no idea how it became my job to correct legitimate news organizations on this issue.

I have no idea how it came to this because a report in the telegraph under Jamie Corrigan's tweet that said exclusive live golfers to quote to earn world ranking points. I was I know Mr. Corrigan does not write the headlines. It was cleared me after paying for it. So I see this headline and I'm like, holy shit, how did they get points? How did this happen? And I paid for subscription to the telegraph to find out. But your ass holdings would like to refund for that.

We will be following up with a charge back on that one. The clickbait works because the article stated that Lymph has submitted their field to the OWGR through Minotaur's qualification, the group that they formed the Strategic Alliance with. A lot of people did not pay for subscriptions to the telegraph because Sky Sports tweeted out that this alliance means that live players will receive World Ranking Point this week. Dirty Mike sends out the tweet of the telegraphs piece with the misleading headline.

And it was Jenna Sims posts on Instagram like congrats to these guys on getting world ranking points this week And I was like and people are tagging me in on it. Oh, you were wrong. Looks like you were wrong about this and I'm like What is going on here? What you can't they just like literally declared It's like the Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy thing We just stood up on the podium and said they get points and there was not even close like I was literally like Bang in my head off the wall, not quite literally, but in my head,

I don't know how any of the legalese works on any of this stuff, but I was like, there's no way this works, and the rush to assume that this was just gonna happen was a really weird and kind of scary moment in the news cycle. It was an alternative fact situation. Yes, God. And so a response from the OWGR came, you know, rather shortly, it says notice of these changes given by the Minotaur is insufficient to

allow OWGR to conduct customary necessary review ahead of LivGolf Bangkok and LivGolf Jetta, which is this coming week, only after the review is complete, will a decision be made on awarding points to the Minotaur's new limited field tournaments defined by the Minotaur and its regulations as any Minotaur approved tournament which comprises of a player field of less than 80 players. So what happened for those that are not familiar is Minotaur despite not playing any events in the last several years has a sanction under the OWGR and has they say earned. They have developed mental tour. Yes, which they have earned and they've been getting points, I think since 2016, they have been out of existence. I would have to imagine, we should have put this in the cash app read, that there was some money involved in this funding

to the media tour to say, hey, we're a part of your tour now. And we are going to submit our field under your OWGR certification here. It's an obvious effort by live to circumvent the criteria and the world ranking that says your average field size of your tour has to be above 75 players. So basically, they're saying through this like the 120 person fields and these other minotaur events that are now getting stood up this year, that counts basically towards our tour through the Strategic Alliance

and the OWGR saw through that in about 38 seconds, I would say, probably before they reached the end of the application and said no to that. On top of that, they're now reviewing the Minotaur's certification as in like, oh, maybe we give a second thought to this Minotaur. I'm not sure if this is quite what you guys said you guys were. God, I couldn't believe the sequence of events. How did you explain all that at the party now?

Well, I know I named it as there's a lot of tours. Honestly, I'll be totally honest. I didn't know until Wednesday that the mean of tour existed. I didn't know that, but I did look it up and I was like, well, it is one of these development tours. There's a lot of them that you don't know that exist, right? But they also went through the requirements, which I think we should go through like the requirements, just so honestly. So at my next party, I just want to know that you can't be discriminatory, so it has to be like merit-based, correct? So there's like 10 to 12 criteria and I included a bunch in our little agenda here, but there's

something I didn't even put in there that are just really extremely basic, right? And one should be at non-discriminatory. So you can't discriminate based on race, religion, all kinds of stuff. I'm going to give live a big thumbs up on this one. You guys have not been discriminatory on this one. Multiple religions, races, you're good here. You guys have not been discriminatory on this one. Multiple religions, races, you're good here. You're good. Well done. Bryson, you have met one of the criteria. You must be proposed by one of the six full member tours. I do not know the answer to this one. I think maybe the Asian tour proposed this for them, through their whatever alliance they have, but I don't think they did.

I don't know the answer to that, but it doesn't really matter because they don't reach a lot of the other ones. You must not know that requirement. I will be adding that. But it's basically like, so additions to the OWGR are like feeder tours, right? There's not been this, there's no precedent for like a big time tour to just come in and leave Rojankins their way in. So that's where it's really working against them to get into this. I think you got to be recommended basically by another tour. You must have a qualifying school. They don't have that must have tournaments contested over at least 54 holes with a 36 hole

cut. They do not have a cut. The tournaments on the tour must average 75 players over the course of each season. This is where they're trying to manipulate through the mean at tour, which we all know their events do not have an average of 75 players because they all have exactly 48 players. There's purse criteria. You got to put up at least $30,000 per se. Look, they are good to go on that one. They got to provide starting field data and result in a specified format. You got to submit that to the OGR. I have no idea if they're doing that. I don't think they are because there's not been any real serious attempt to meeting

in the criteria. And you must comply with all of these for at least one year prior to being admitted to the system, which is the big one. Huge LOL. Which has been around for a long time. Yes. Big fat LOL because you're not meeting most of the criteria. Can you explain to me the WGCs where those, the no cuts for PGA tour events and those

get OWGR points? Is that just because they're like a part, because they're not the main format of a tour, those are, those are cool. Is that like the hero world challenge, the same thing. I'm just, I just want to clarify because I've been asked that question and I've, I've had to set it aside before. I don't know. Well, I think that's right. I've not been a huge fan of the hero getting Odo B. Jarapoints because at least for the WGC's, there's kind of a, not kind of, there is a path

into them, right? You can say, okay, these are such, these are, these are eight percent of our tours events, but also if you're in the top 60 in the world or 64 in terms of the match play, you're in. And so that, I think that's a reasonable sort of, and listen, I got into, I don't know why I get any of these Twitter arguments, but I got into an argument with somebody on Twitter that was like, if you want to make, if live wants to do these sort of one-off deals where they do a match player, they do whatever, like that, that's totally fine. You can't make these, these events that don't fit any of your criteria 100% of your tourist events, right? I think that's not the answer was. It's like, okay, just, there's like four or five of

them a year. Yeah. And it's very clear how you get into them and like the best players are playing in them so like they they you know we're gonna give you points for them but it can't be all of your tours events can't just be these with no qualifying with and I guess it's like if you have all these other things like for instance the qualification there must be a qualifying school like we have to bet who's on this tour, which I think that's the biggest one, man. Like I just, that's, that is probably the piece of live I struggle with the most, what we talked about earlier.

It's just like, man, you just opened up a path for them to just, if this is a, and take the Saudi stuff out of it, if this was the Norwegian government or the, you know, Canadian government, like, if this is truly a brand marketing arm of a, of a foreign government, of Canadian government, like if this is truly a brand marketing arm of a foreign government, of a government, like their goal is not really to identify the best golfer. It's just to like get as much attention as possible. So like, then if there's no qualifying, that's tough for me to get on board with.

So let me, can I clarify the rule in there, states that every tournament on a tour must be contested over a scheduled minimum of 54 holes with a cut after 36 holes and or in accordance with OWGR eligible formats. There's also a section in the OWGR called limited and special field tournaments. Limited field tournaments or special tournaments must be approved on an individual basis. The eligible golf tour must apply for that tournament to receive inclusion in writing to the chairman of the governing board. So in this, it's like all of these tours getting together to say, like, hey, this ranking system that we've already created, the top guys in this are going to get to play a bolted

on tournament here that has no cut. We're very good with the qualification for this event yet. So we are gonna have a special tournament. We all are in agreement here, right? All none of the, like so we're gonna pull people from the Asian tour, we're gonna pull people from the DP World Tour, pull from the PGA tour, all these tours coming together,

World Golf event based on this criteria, bang, bolt it on. That's really, really, really different than what live is doing. And I know some people just wanna just throw the hero in there and the WGC's in there and say, look, their logic is flaw, blah, blah, blah. It's just not the same. It's just not. I get it. They're like, not every event on the PGA tour is this way. Not every spot on the PGA tour is earned. There's sponsors exemptions. There's all kinds of stuff. You know, amateurs play in tournaments, but

overwhelmingly, is it very, very structurally different than what live is doing? Yes. I think what's intriguing, I think this is from Bob Herrick of sports illustrated, but he was talking about Neo how Meena Tour, I can't believe we're talking about the freaking Meena Tour in October. I'm hearing of it. Middle East and North Africa tour is changing the world of golf. But the top miniature players get into like they get access to the Asian development tour, which gets access to the Asian tour, which Liv has said, I believe, Sully, that a couple of the top Asian tour players will get access into the, into Liv live into the 48 man fields or whatever.

So there's this really, uh, just total token effort. I mean, that's, it's, it's, yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's functionally impossible for a player to rise from the minoturer into live golf, but I guess theoretically, it, it would be possible. It's also a, a vote of confidence for me in the 12 month waiting period because as we've seen, like live says a lot of stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, well, you know,

the Asian tour guys, they'll get some spots. Like, it just say they say whatever. But like, I would love to see 12 months of like, oh man, like, why don't you guys, like, I guess where I'm at is, I would rather you, you want to start this tour that's great I may or I'll probably watch some of it I probably won't watch it whatever but like why don't you just go do it instead of continuing to tell me

how awesome it is like why don't you go like prove that you're doing it and then maybe like like then you can be a part of the world golf system like that's totally fine with me if you get your shit together. But like you guys just saying that you're going to do it and getting access to all the benefits before you actually do it is not that's I can't get really down with that. That's that hit me two weeks ago. I was in Colorado on a vacation and I was thinking about live of course because what else would I think about on vacation? And there, the arrogance of everybody involved with the live to me has been appalling. Because they just, they roll out there

and they just start thumping their chest like, hey, this is the future. And it's like, man, you could maybe draw me in. If you just said, hey, we're gonna start this new league and it's gonna be different. And it's like, man, you could maybe draw me in if you just said, Hey, we're going to start this new league. And it's going to be different. And we hope it works. We're going to try really hard. And we're going to sign some players and not taking shots at the PGA tour. We're just going to do our own thing. And we're going to apply for OWGR points after a year and hopefully they recognize that. And we'd love to kind of create something

different in the world of golf. I'd be like Hell yeah, that sounds awesome. Yeah, I know I honestly think like some of it would be like if it wasn't so abrasive. I'm kind of with you It's like, you know, hey man like Good for you like I would like to see some of these changes happen, but like you can't just fake it and then get all the access I just normal too. That's a little... Everything you just described as Norman. It is Norman, but it's also all the guys they've signed. Right? Like the Norman's words are shining through

and what these guys are saying. I really don't think. Or it's... Rice and quote we just listened to. Of like all the lies you've been told, it's like no, you... Like I haven't been told a lie. I just want you to prove it to me

that you're gonna to actually accept some Minotaur play. Like, is there actually a path from the mean it's the Asian toward to the lived or is there a qualifying system here? Like, what are you doing? Or are you going to invite Jake Paul to play golf with you? You know, I'm still convinced that's going to happen. You know, the arrogance that's not going to happen. The arrogance shines through with the, and this is the part that just

infuriates me, these people online, and I guess their bots are, I don't know what they are, I don't know who the actual humans are, they're typing these words in, but. Intererings. That just, they're like, oh, and somebody, I think Brendan and Andy were talking about this, like,

oh, we're fans of live golf. Who the hell is a fan of like Major League Baseball? You're a Red Sox fan or a Dodgers fan. You're not a, you're not a, it's like the Rob Lowe wearing the NFL hat thing. Me, you know? That's what I feel like all these people are, you have people comparing, oh well,

this many people watch the live round two highlights and this many people watch the PGA tour round two highlights. Like who the hell the PJ true around two highlights like who the hell like who are you? What are you doing? Why are you doing it? It just is such a contrarian arrogant thing and They just have not engendered a lot of goodwill and and that is frustrating because I think there was a path to do something different and They just have not gone about it in a way that is very endearing. I'd like to take a second here to point out some of the successes of live to this point and some of their failures.

And there is one extreme common theme with their successes. Everything they've been successful with in terms of getting a bunch of big name players, you know, putting up gaudy events, huge media productions, a telecast with no commercials, blah, blah, blah. It all has to do with money. Everything they've been able to do with money has been a success. I mean, the amount of guys they've gotten has stunned me to this point. If you rewind a year, if you told me that they would have all these guys that they have, I would not have thought that. I would not have thought the events would have been as successful as they are, that the media productions will be this big, that everything was relatively gone off without a hitch.

They've executed everything that cost money, not to perfection, like I don't think it's perfection, but it's surprisingly successful. Everything, I would pause there. I would say that that does deserve credit. Like I have been, I remember the first event, I was impressed with like, dang, I thought, like I thought it was gonna be like a fire fest,

but it wasn't. Like written, that day, you know, like, I guess money works, right? Like in some ways. So like, you know, I just, I don't wanna just like, breeze over this accept, like there is something to be said for that, like, okay, cool. So you can't start any toy.

If you have unlimited money, you can do it. Like, however, however, anything that their money can't buy has been a failure to this point. OWGR application slash circumvention has been a total embarrassment. I mean, seeing DJ Phil and Cam Smith winge and wine about that their system is unfair and the league, like, doesn't even fake an actual attempt to comply with the rules, think they can just overrun it. Huge failure to this point. They tried it, again, meander their way through something called the Minator and fly the banner. They found a way to get points. And, of course, they did not get it. Norman's visit to Capitol Hill was a shit show. Tim Birchett walked out of the Republican study committee lunch with Norman calling his live pitch prop

Aganda saying a hard time understanding Norman's Australian accent and that the RSC shouldn't be spending its time on billionaire oil guys in the Saudis Representative chip Roy pressed Norman on Saudi ties and foreign agent registration issues He said don't come in here and act like you're doing some great thing while you're pimping a billion dollars of Saudi Arabian money. Virtue later tweeted, weren't Saudis flying some of those planes on 9 11 and what about their killing of Washington Post colonist Jamal Kashoggi. Disaster of a visit, I would call that from Greg Norman to Capitol Hill. Next, the TRO, Matt Jones, Hudson Swalford Taylor Goode's trying to sue their way into the FedEx Cup playoffs, denied hard the trial date getting set for

2024 I cannot imagine that would be a win on the live side Again trying to take on the US Judicial system to get bully their league into getting their players getting to whatever they want not going very well so far Telling the players that the PJ tour wouldn't suspend them. That was wrong. That was a fail And they can't get a TV deal. And actually their money might bail them out of that one and they might actually have to buy the TV time. But literally anything they try to do

without their money has been a total embarrassment to this point. And I just think that's worth acknowledging at this point. And every time they go and bearist themselves on this OWGR front, like just whatever they can't buy, they can't do to this point. The buying TV time is, that's a little bit of a chef's kiss for me. It's like the, the infomercial, you know, I always think of the guy that was selling, uh, how to work your computer.

Please, please try my product, you know, the, the guy with the CD ROMs back, I got to dig that video up. It's too good. Uh, I, I mean, I guess that's one way to do it though. Like, you know, I think the LPGA does that. Like for some tournaments, right? Like, I think that's relatively an unimportant here though to like what they've probably promised their players, which is OWGR and they just can't buy them out of that. Yeah. And I think that goes back to for me to the arrogance of, of would this league even work in terms of stars, if there weren't arrogant people running it

that promised all these things. Good point. Right? Like, do you get, and maybe you do, maybe DJ and read and all these books, maybe they go regardless, but I have to think that some of those guys were promised stuff by arrogant people who think they can just do whatever they want that wouldn't, that if people who had more

humility and more lived in reality were, you know, wouldn't have done. And so I just, it almost feels like the entire foundation is built on, it's kind of a house of cards, you know, and so I'm curious about how that goes for those particular players in the future. Yeah, it's a lot of puffing your chest out, telling a lot of lies publicly, rallying people to believe in them and misinformation. And I also obviously care if you need me to, but I think the listeners could probably could make it obviously, could do what that sounds like.

I, well, no, I know the link you're trying to make, but I also, I, I almost relate it more to like the startup world, which the, the started are deep into as well of like the venture back companies that fake it till they make it, right? Like I I work for one or two, but you know early in my might still be working for one. I would say we are not like that, right? Because like you just get all this money you have, you have to hit these numbers so quickly that you just have to like paint this vision and you just, you know, just continue to put out fires until you make it. And it just, you know, when it comes down to, it's like, when does the money run out? Like, how often, how long can you convince these investors to keep giving you money to make it big

enough to go public? And it's like, I guess the Saudis are in it for 10 years. And that's scary because there's a lot of kings they can work out. And also if they just went about it the right way, it'd be like, man, you got a year, you got to just like, you got to hit these requirements and then in a year you guys could be in a really good spot. And it's like they kind of are shooting themselves

in the face a little bit. You know what I mean? Like it's honestly like, I think what would scare ears if they were like doing it the right way and you know they were just gonna wait 12 months and then come out swinging. It's like damn that's that would have probably been more effective. But do you think they're you know do you think they're hitting you you mentioned like hitting requirements or hitting goals or numbers or whatever. Are they hitting any of those? I mean they're not making money. I mean, I saw it on the highlights from Bangkok.

You've got Sergio out there in a knee brace plane in front of like 12 people on the 13th hole. And you're like, if this isn't a metaphor for this entire extravaganza than what is. But I just, and maybe their goals are not financial. Maybe they're, maybe what they have to hit is, hey, get on TV or. That's, I'm with, that's where I was going to go with you. Okay. Okay.

I don't think it's a profit and loss goal. I think this is a, you know, 10 year, like, yeah, man, let's, like, I think it's an attention goal. And I think in that regard, I think they're definitely, they're making a splash, right? And they're, they're, they're alvinhiding a certain amount of like Western culture in their favor, right? Because there are like the Twitter arguments you're getting in that there's certain people that are like, this is sick, man, look how much money these guys are getting. This is awesome.

Like good for those guys. I don't really, that doesn't really get my juices going, but there are people that feel that way. And I think that that is a, and then as you said earlier, it starts to get normalized where it's like, oh, maybe it's around for, I don't think they're gonna take a one or two year time horizon here.

I think it's four minimum, right? And this is all like what a year it's been, this is all new, but we're gonna go around again on this carousel next year. And what's that gonna look like, right? And like this is all like what a year it's been like this is all new, but like we're gonna go around again on this carousel next year and like what's that gonna look like, right? Like is it in some ways it's like, oh maybe we'll get boring and like it'll just people will have less interest or maybe they'll just be like they start actually working towards OWGR points and it becomes like a legitimate place where people are playing golf, you know, like I can't predict that, but I don't think it's a monetary thing. Yeah, I don't think it is.

But I think last thing for me on OWGR is that, you know, this hit me a couple of weeks ago, but I get rid of it. I don't care. Like the only, the function out of the OWGR is twofold. It's one to say, okay, who's the number one part in the world, which can be financially incentive. There can be financial incentives for guys in their contracts or whatever. And then it's to build fields for the biggest tournaments. Well, the masters can just invite the top 40 guys on the PJ tour money list or the top. They invite the top three guys on live. I don't care. Like I The OWGR thing has just become such a hot button thing that if you want to get rid of it, I think I'd be okay with that I don't know how you guys feel about that, but that that that to me kind of hit me over the last couple weeks

That sounds like a real possibility honestly I do not suit right like well Yeah, and then it's, so that's the thing. The mean of tour play, like my radar was up pretty quickly on that. Like, of course, it's not going to work. What are you up to here? Is this a little bit of a chess move, right? Do you, is it one more, you know, is it 200 more pages in your lawsuit?

There's a point to the group boycott that is happening here amongst all these tours and saying, you can't play with us. That's where I don't know how all that legal shit works, but it certainly, again, seems to me like, that is a possibility. I don't know if the tours are going to go to bat for this OWGR and fund the lawsuit for it or if it just dissolves and they come up and say, I will just create new criteria. I will different grounds. I don't know. That's the part where I'm like, guys, this is where we're trying to scream from the if it just dissolves and they come up and say, I will just create new criteria. I will. Different grounds.

I don't know. That's the part where I'm like, guys, this is where we're trying to scream from the beginning of how not fun a lot of this stuff is gonna be. This is what we're talking about, because this is gonna get settled in court. Like this is exactly how this is gonna play out. All of our say, like, hey, if you can look around the corner

a little bit, how not fun this is gonna be, we're gonna watch exactly what that means. I'm gonna push back there, because if we get that judge judge again that that that hit Trace out there in California like that was a lot of fun. I'm going to be hurt for how you think as long as I can get some some zoom Zoom addresses for how to watch these lawsuits. I have two things one. I Don't I don't care if the OWGR goes away, so I don't either that's interesting But I also want to I want to give it some credit like because we've ragged on in the past for manipulation and I don't care if the OWGR goes away. So, I don't either. That's interesting.

But I also want to give it some credit. Because we've ragged on in the past for manipulation and there's some holes in it. Or maybe Sally is ragged on it. So now everyone wants to talk about it. I've been talking about it for years. I was thinking, I had to say, why don't you start to dig into it?

I actually think it's a pretty thoughtful system. So I want to give it some credit. Like it's not just like, this is almost like stress pretty thoughtful system. So I wanna get this in credit. Like, you know, like it's not just like, this is kind of, this is almost like stress testing the system. And if, you know, I think it's, you know, overall it's been beneficial for proving the best golfers worldwide, right?

Now, I have a question for you both. What do you, and this is purely an opinion or what you think or predict? What do you think Augusta and the Riddler, what do you think they're going to do? God. With the, specifically, the previous, the past champions on the live tour. Do you think those guys are going to be at Augusta in April? I do.

I do. Oh, yeah. I think they should be. My stance on this has been, look, you guys put up exemption criteria and you've given these guys lifetime exemptions. I, unless they pull it on Hill Cabrera, I think that's a different situation. I think these guys have just,

they've earned that spot, that's theirs. Really, that's where it becomes kind of silly. Like we're talking about like Abe answer here. We're not talking, like Taylor Gooch is gonna be qualified through the top 50, like by the end of this year, for next year, Dustin's qualified for life for the Masters, Cam's qualified for majors the next five years, blah, blah, blah, like we're just,

we're not, we're not, we're not, yeah, Bryson's qualified for a long time. We're not talking about all of these guys playing majors and I think they just want to hold, like if you guys, we're gonna award the spots through the top 50 or 60 however that works, depending on which major we're talking about. And if to the top 50 or 60, however, that works, depending on which major we're talking about.

And if you've won and you're in on that criteria, you should be in the tournament. I'm definitely down with that. Yeah, I think they will too. What I wouldn't be surprised by Neil is if they change, if they kind of revamp their criteria for getting in overall, they've got the, whatever, 17 or 18 categories that you can get in into the masters every year. And I wonder if they, if they take a look at that and, and maybe redo it with using the OWGR stuff as sort of a catalyst, but then saying, okay, maybe we need to take a closer look and,

and maybe they do that every year, they probably do. But I think that is something that is probably on the table for them over the next couple of years. It could just change it simply to all right, we're taking top, I think already top 30, the torch championship, make it into Greta, right? So maybe it's top 40 in the FedEx, make it top 15 on the DP World Tour, top five on the Asian Tour, make it whatever those numbers might be, you can just make it based on the standings of the existing tours. That's honestly what you hear for them. For sure. And I think almost a better like you would get a more diverse representation of of like, you know, and Augusta has been great.

Remember that year they invited Shubankar Sharma, the Indian guy that was in the the WGC Mexico event. It I think Augusta is cool because they've done a great job of global, like making the game actually growing the game globally. And maybe that's a better representation of just getting, you know, a wider swath of players into their event. So I wouldn't be surprised if they did that at all. And honestly, I would listen to a take that said, like, also we'll give the top two live guys.

Sure. Yeah, listen. Like, just the way it's set up, like a system is set up currently for the OWGR that live is trying to bully their way into and without actually meeting the criteria. That I just can't, I can't merge, I can't come terms with that, all right?

Not on my watch, okay? But if you redo it and you say like, yeah, we recognize that there's a lot of talent on this tour. And we've reviewed your tour. And we think that you are worthy of two guy like that. Be interested to follow out of who the top two would make it out of that system. But it's just I don't think about that, but I would listen to that. I think this, even this like thought exercises is interesting to me because one, it's like, okay, cool. We're going to blow the OWGR up and like that's been it's been working, but now these guys just like Start crying over like spilt the milk that they spilled

Clean it up for them and also like we're not gonna drink milk anymore like what that's bullshit and two like Why don't the champions tour guys like there's a lot of talent on that tour? Why don't they go to them? Why don't the champions tour guys? Like, there's a lot of talent on that tour. Why don't they go to the top two guys from that, you know, you start, you could make an argument now for like a bunch of different tours. Like, I just think that it's, I agree that the past champion should get it. They should just follow the qualification at least for the next year. Like, it just sucks that the live crybaby stuff is going to, or threats of lawsuits are

going to wreck a system that technically has been working pretty well for getting S. live crybaby stuff is gonna or threats of lawsuits are gonna wreck a system that that technically has been working pretty well for getting the S. Golfers into these events. It would be sick if they if it gets to said we're gonna we're gonna allow the top three players in the Minotaur the non-live guys in the Minotaur. Yeah. All right are you guys ready to move off? And I think we should start. I was, it's always cathartic though. Yeah.

No, I mean, it's, I know it is probably repetitive to some, but I feel like my thinking kind of involves on it still week after week. I went back and listened to our PGL, SGL, development's podcast a year ago, October of 2021, when nobody was talking about this. And it's interesting, like personally, how much my views on this have evolved. Once you are able to put your brain to it and understand a little bit more about how things work,

I think it, I feel very confident in how we stand on it. So, John Rom wins his third Spanish open, National Open Show to TC, as you mentioned, Neil. I did watch a lot of this, but and it was not a strong field, but gosh, he has taken on a weird identity of showing up and winning tournaments where he is the overwhelming favorite. It's harder to do than he's making it look. He won the Mexican Open last year. He was like four to one to win that one. And he is basically the top guy that obviously that shows up to the Spanish open. He wins yet another one of the so congrats to John Rom on that one. Yeah, DJ our DJ pie was saying that Tranche go back and try to win the Donuty Country Club.

Club championship or the ATL he loves. He loves when guys go and play their national offense. It's like, well, TC, you should go home and play your, you know, your city championship or something. You're going to go, you know, practice what you preach on. I don't know if you guys caught this in Spanish afterwards. He, I don't know what it was prompted by this, but Ram on on New Haney, Lopez, Jacara said, although some people want to make us look at them, meaning live as the enemy, he is just a 22 year old guy winning against some of the best players in the world. Congratulations if you see this, you Haney O.

Which yeah, Ram's got some comments lately, just that he still thinks that live players should be able to play in the Ryder Cup and he had some chippy comments about the new PGA tour schedule and all that. So I'd like to have him on the pod this fall, if he's up for another a third go around of a a chat because I think we could have an interesting one. So yeah, I, well, I think he's sort of doing what, what you're talking about, Sally, when you say, hey, I understand the individual decisions, even if I disagree with how the overall thing

is working, right? I don't know that that, I don't, you can, you can believe both things. Like, you can be happy for a guy and think that Like hey, I want to partner with Sergio again in Rome next year, but also I dislike that all this exists I think both things can be true and I think that's Probably where he's coming from Although people on Twitter would make you believe that he's gonna be the next to go to live On the LPGA tour great hit it great finish for our young hit at Lauren Cogland. She finished T8 this past. Yeah. Jody, you were to shout off Windsor first LPGA tour event and 246 starts. That is remarkable. Yucasazo also was the runner up this week.

I expected a bigger year out of Yucas. She won the US Women's Open last year. The year's not over yet, but kind of I need to see a little bit more out of you because this year. Last, the last I have is I went to the Furekin Friends this week here at Tim Aquada and Jacksonville. May it. They were in the mega TV window this weekend. They did have a blind view window.

To a constellation has been they were talking about maybe paying for some coverage. You know, they they were getting prime prime slotting on golf channel. I just kind of don't only being out there and I don't tune into champions to our golf on television very often. I wouldn't even have sworn by you guys really should have seen this. But how hyper hyper local champions tour events are and how really fun they are to be there in person and wild to just see. Call on Montgomery and Ernie L's and John Daley rolling through and then some

dude who's just grind his way out there like Rob LaBritz who's a PGA professional and I played the program on Monday with Shane Birch who I knew next to nothing about and he's like top 30 in the standings. He's working his way through it and Steve Strick or I watched a lot of Steve this week and it was just a master class of golf talent, just nothing physically overwhelming. The best demeanor on a golf course you could imagine seeing. I remember going to the Memorial Tournament as a kid

and just being like their tempo, their pace, and their ease at which they did it. I immediately was like, okay, I want to go play golf. I'm going to go do it like that. I got it. And I had a flashback to that this week with Steve Stricker. I've just total calm before every shot, total trust in his talent. And it was just a dominant, dominant win for him. But had a great time out there this week.

How come champions events don't or how come senior events don't get out of David Jarra points? That's a great question. That's a great question. Like some of these guys, they go make a bunch of money over there. And major champions a lot of talent on that tour. 54 holes. No cut. Kind of nice out there. But, Sali, I would echo what you said about attending a Champions Tour event. I've been to the, been to two of them and I've enjoyed both immensely. Very, you can see a lot of golf. There's just a lot of personalities out there. Everybody's pretty laid back. It's a fun vibe. And it was fun. I watched a little bit on TV this weekend. Fundacy, the Kwan. Redone, I know some of those holes. It's always fun to watch a tournament that, you know,

what the course looks like in person. Look like they were kind of complaining about the spicy conditions. The older gentleman did not like the speed of the green. So they've just re-did to be caught in this past year and it just opened up about a month and a half ago. And New Greens are going to be firm no matter what and they had perfect weather running hurricane aside. Had a great weather run up this week and dude some of those greens played so much smaller than they usually did they expanded the greens and so when you got to the edge of some of them it ball just rolled and rolled and rolled it just looked like a Donald Ross golf course it was it was it was spicy I actually kind of wanted nothing to do with it this we got

to not want to play it looked really difficult and the scores were actually relatively relatively high considering how easy the par 5s are out there. So it was interesting. It was very interesting. It's cool. It's just super cool event like Jim Furek is somebody I grew up think having no emotional feeling towards watching play golf and I've gotten to know him through it and seeing like how invested he is and both the foundation he and his wife run their devotion to the event. His ability to host and entertain like he was in the bar drinking with all the pro amp participants on Monday evening like as the event is getting started. He had to do that every day this week. He actually played really good golf on top of it.

Mid-round goes over to talk to Ben Rathasberger and Jerome Betis who were playing out there in a charity thing for some reason. It's just a, it's, that's what I mean. It's a hyper local event that it was really entertained to watch play out. And I was, I don't know, it's weird to like watch someone's whole career and then watch them become a tournament host like that. And it's just pretty cool. So shout out to everyone involved with that. That's all I've got for the week. Anything else you guys have? Porter, I don't know how long your podcast usually go. I'm sorry, I'll hear it. We take up the full a lot of time.

Oh, no, I'm locked in. I was just thinking about what kind of podcast Fierrick Rothlesberger and Jerome Betis could have. Like just those are talking on a pod for two hours. Yeah, a lot of Pittsburgh top. Mike is discussing events in the Midwest to the Northeast. And that's not only I think we can cut it.

That's a great place to end it. That is it. Kyle, thanks so much for jumping on, man. It's great to, we haven't done this in a long time. Great to have you on. We got to do a rider cup one soon. I think it's time to talk about a lot of things. We may need a European heat check on there. Well, the other day, you, I think it was you and Randy. We're talking and you said, you know, nobody, nobody,

you said something like nobody wants to hear about my rider cup stuff. And I was like, I actually want to hear all of it. I love hear that. Yeah. Yeah. I've not quite as, I'm a little humbled by the press that's cup, but maybe honest, I'm not quite as on the train of it won't be close in Europe as you are, but it might take some time to unpack that. Unless you have just 20 seconds. I think the Taylor Montgomery thing you mentioned earlier, the US is not very deep from like 13 to 20. It's right. I think there's, I think there's still deep one to 11, one to 12.

However you want to say it, 13 to 20. If you look at some of those names, it's like, I don't know, man, like that Tom Hogi almost made the president's cup tea, which is a good player. But do you want Tom Hogi in Rome? I don't know about that Once we got to Tom Hogi at Rome that is officially the other today's podcast Neil. Thank you very much for Hope we did put you sleep too much best of luck at your parties explain the OWG. I think you're this is very helpful This is great great for me. You're very very well prepared. All the guests at the next party. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in. As always, we'll see you back here soon. Cheers.

Get a right club. Be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.