No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 620: Xander Schauffele

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Xander Schauffele joins the pod to address the recent rumors about departing for LIV, what it was like to be in the room with Tiger in Delaware, his relationship with his dad as his coach, his path to the tour, competing in majors and a ton more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. All right, Callaway is seeding their ad read for this episode in exchange for a question to you about their equipment. So we thank them for that. As everybody wins in this scenario, I think you're probably better than me explaining how

to get their stuff in the hole. So the golf ball and the golf ball evolution to me has been, I think, the most exciting. So what golf ball do you play and why do you trust it on golf's biggest stage? I play the chrome soft tech. That's the one that I asked for. And that's the one I received. And that's when I play, I've played probably six or seven different Callie golf ball since I've been with them. And yeah, I'd agree with you, Stabin. I mean, I think their golf ball evolution has been something that I should be talked about. It's something they've invested a lot of money in.

And it's something they've kind of put their best foot forward with. And something they really wanted to change in their company. And I think they've done that with this new golf ball. I mean, I'm playing this golf ball now for an entire year. And I'm going to play it this next year. To me it's much more stable than wind. I mean I ask for a ball that doesn't get messed with the wind as much. This ball sort of gives me the best of both worlds.

It gives me the spin around the greens and when it gets pretty windy it's a ball that stays much more stable. It doesn't really get messed around. They're explaining me in the past about how their other golf balls would go out with a lot of energy and lose all its momentum or energy while it's traveling to it kind of apex and it would kind of fall. And this one sort of because of the they changed the dimpled depth and the cover and the core, they're able to kind of manipulate those things to keep it conforming but also have it sort of maintain its spin and maintain its

energy going out. So never really kind of the style of the sky. It's kind of traveled to its point the way you wanted to. I would say you qualify as somebody to ask about that, because that point is my freaking mind. I feel like we could talk about that for either an hour or just like that we have to separate that conversation out, because I would love to hear how golf ball does that. You may not be able to explain that to me, but all right, I'll give you a little timeline here.

We were scheduled to do this podcast last week. It gets canceled and we find out your sick, which sounds like it was extremely legitimate. I'm not calling any mouthpiece that's there, but this is the same time that some very not so good sources are just running a muck with the zander and can't lay to live rumors. And when you canceled for like half a second, I thought this may have legs. I want to chat about, you know, decision making, and all that, but from your perspective,

what's it like? What's it like seeing your name in rumors that to my knowledge, like don't have an ounce of truth to them? Yet it does tend to spread. And you don't seem like the biggest social media guy but I'm just wondering what that's been like from your perspective. Yeah I sort of I found out in a funny way I pretty much just received messages from my friends you know some of my friends sort of disbelieved that I would tell them if I if I were to leave with DJ Tour and my other friends kind of texted me disbelief.

Thinking it was true and so I was like come on guys. But yeah, no, I mean I was sick, you know that is really funny timing, but you speak of it. I did. Drag my ass over to Arizona. I felt like crap and I did one day with Calaway and I just they were really awesome I was supposed to do a day and a half with them and they let me kind of go that that half day So I could go home and rest up which was much needed so feeling much better now and yes I had to whether that storm of all the social media news that I I don't really get on my phone because I don't look at it So I had to end up googling sort of what was going on and I saw that there's these articles basically saying that Pat and I are leaving. So yeah, I pretty much just told everyone, I'm going to tell you, I haven't talked to anybody. I was pretty much my own business in Vegas.

This whole thing blew up. So why blew up or how blew up? I don't think I have no idea, but probably similar to the first time around. Just random rumors that sort of I guess catch catch a wind and they just blows up in your face. You know what I mean? Well, yeah, it's like this is a part like I feel genuinely bad about like continuing to ask people that have addressed it repeatedly and you shouldn't have to come out and say it, you know, every week. But I think it's just to this point, like it we've seen some guys

flip. We've seen some stuff change that kind of ruined our trusted people in general, I think. And so, unless a guy is going to declare absolute loyalty to one side, consistently, it's hard. That's what makes it really hard for more we're sitting. There's so much flooding the zone with rumors. When some of it pans out, it's like, well, dang, and the decision changes, I think, if some big names go, the decision might change for you, right? It's not, if you were asked about it in August, your answer might have changed at least a little bit to this point.

So I, all that to say, like, I don't think the questions are going to stop any time soon. Yeah. I mean, the rumor mail is definitely exciting. It's, it's fun for, I mean, not for me, but it's fun for, you know, everyone else surrounding golf. It brings attention to eyeballs to our game, which I guess if I'm looking at this half-empty half-full, I guess that's a good thing. If I'm the punch at the bottom of it, it is what it is. But yeah, I try really hard not to misspeak, especially when I'm talking to media

or things like that. So for me to declare one thing outright, like you said, if everyone and their mother went to go over to play not just this tour over here, but some different tour, then, like you said, I can't just say, I'm for sure staying on this, and obviously right now, I'm signing up for tournaments next year on the PJ tour. I'm creating my full schedule. So it's like, I know I'm playing next year and probably, I mean, if I had to guess from years from now, or I'll be playing, but like you said, if someone started some megator and Tiger, JT, Jordan, Rory, and everyone else decided to go play there, it'd be pretty

hard to just sit here. You know what I mean? Well, and that's kind of relates to one of my questions, which is, I'm wondering, if do you, do you feel the weight of the golf world at all on any potential decisions you've either made at this point or future decisions? Because if I'm, if I'm reading it between the answer you had there, if the dominoes start to fall, I may make a move, which I truly can't fault that position or you stay in that or that decision.

But basically, you're also saying you won't be one of the dominoes to fall to start this cascade effect, right? Because that's, that I think is the question, right? Some but if there were to be a cascade falling, somebody's got to make the first move. I would say DJ was probably one of the similar, one of the ones that did that back in June. And are you saying that you will not be one of those guys at least to this point? Yeah. and that you will not be one of those guys at least to this point. Yeah, no, for sure. I'm not going to be, I will just basically take my talents to where all the talents will be playing.

If that's a fair statement, I'm not really going to be, I don't even think that I can be that person to be honest. You know what I mean? I mean, it takes sort of, there's only a couple I can think of that can really sort of be an individual to make the domino fall. I would really, I don't think I'd be one of those people in the sport as of right now. That can change, obviously, with performance and majors and things like that.

But there's only a couple of guys in our game that can really sort of, if they say jump, everyone jumps, you know, sort of how it works. I mean, and for that, I mean, me along with a lot of other guys on tour or working with them to make the tour better right now. So that's sort of what we've been up to. So it's pretty funny when, you know, I know what's going on on the inside. Everyone else is screaming on the outside and two worlds collide. Pretty funny.

Yeah. Oh, God, I don't think I'm qualified to try to navigate all these waters, but we're gonna, we're gonna keep trying. It's, it's super interesting, man. It's just like, I won't gotta do it. I know. Well, yeah, like I said, it just, I think the Capca flip is what made everyone super like dude, literally anyone could go now, right? Because he said he wasn't gonna go and now he's going and it just, it just, you have to read between the lines on everything, and it's really difficult. But what, going back, so I wanna go back into that room

in August, you know, this was a very tumultuous time for the PGA tour. You guys all get in a room together, talk about a lot of things, you were a part of that meeting. What, how much talking did you do in that meeting? Yeah, no, that was more of a presentation. That wasn't really, I really didn't talk a whole lot there. I mean, that was more of a presentation. That wasn't really, I really didn't talk a whole lot there. I mean, it was a much bigger group. So, it was sort of information

was provided. We all had to sort of sit there and think about it. And, you know, there's some small talk about it. But for the most part, now, I mean, the important people in that room sort of had the floor and made their main points and gave everyone in there something to think about. The verdict that came out of that at least from a media perspective was that everyone in that room, everyone in that room was unanimously in support of this plan and the future of the PGA tour. Basically, if the idea that, hey, we're going to get together and play together a lot more. Well, what was your actual reaction to that and seeing this information? Was it a light bulb going off moment where did you leave in thews?

Like what was your reaction to seeing everything that played out? My initial feeling, I think everyone's was sort of, there was this excitement, there was something new, there was an answer here and I mean, we're basically leaving part of the PJ Tour as well as everyone in that room at that time. We're getting just picked off left and right.

And there was no answer. There was no counter. There was nothing really there. I mean, maybe there was something there. I wasn't made aware of it. And it wasn't moving fast enough. So when you're kind of seeing guys that you played with and guys that you want to compete against, kind of just leave, you know, you understand why they're doing it.

You may not agree with why they're doing it. You may not agree with why they're doing it, but you understand why and it's their choice to make. And you just have to try and sort of make what you have, make your home better. And yeah, my instinct sort of initial feel there was excitement. And I think that was pretty much there for everyone

that was seeing what they saw on that screen for the first time or everyone, that was for that first time in that room, I guess, you know, discussing sort of what the plan for the future was. What is it like now, you know, you being an independent contractor, you being able to make your own schedule, you know, all these years?

What's it like kind of turning that over, at least in some capacity to say, hey, you need to be here for these blah, blah, blah events? What kind of effect does that have on you person? I know it's affecting every guy a little bit differently. And there's all sacrifices everyone's got to make. But what's that transition like? Yeah, I mean, if we're going to go that down that direction, we still just need to make sure the guideline in the path

that we saw there in that room is upheld, is true to what we saw and not manipulated or maneuvered or kind of restricted. I have no problem sort of giving up you know some of my time or some of my freedoms, but it better be for a good reason, you know what I mean, it better be for a better game, it better be because everyone else is doing exactly the thing. No one really gets sort of an edge on anyone else because we're all agreeing to do this for a couple of reasons, you know,

and like you said, it affects everyone differently, but for the most part, you know, I just need to make sure that we don't really get screwed over because we do make ourselves home, we do take away sort of some of our strengths, but our individual strengths, like you said, because, you know, we are kind of passing up on some of our freedoms there. So just making sure that things are upheld, you know, the tours help, you know, canable for moving forward to make sure that, you know,

we don't get screwed over on sort of in any way, shape or form. I think it, yeah, I'm always, you know, I hear some reactions like, well, you know, the Dallas guys got to play five events in a row and things like that. I'm most like, yeah, the Dallas guys also get to play for 20 million bucks a lot more often now. So it's kind of like I get it. I do. It's just things had to change, right? In some way, they had to change and I guess looking back at how this all unfolded. I am now, you know, from I get text messages from guys that are key decision makers in this, like asking me questions about what's going on. And that shocks me. Like that, that amazes me. I would say to this point, it is, you guys not getting in a room together way more often

has helped contribute to this, this, this, the current atmosphere and the current confusion in the current just overall lack of connectivity among the top, amongst the you agree with that that kind of sentiment and do you see that changing going forward as a result of this meeting? Yeah, I mean, I think that's an I understand where that's going from. I mean, the man, it is hard. It's like hurting. It's like a hurting cat getting the top players together. I mean, we compete against each other. We typically don't really like each other. I mean, we all get along obviously, but it's not like super happy when someone beats you

every week and that happens every week. So imagining all of us agreeing to sort of sit down, get together, spend time together, spend extra time together, do phone calls and texts, because you know, it's not just like show up in one room, you have one room, you have to like communicate along the way to get into that room and to make the right time, to make it work for everyone. And everyone's been, everyone, you know, I say everyone in this sort of, in that room, everyone got along, everyone get along. There's no sort of weird feeling, but I just know like part of the reason it's hard is because everyone, you know, everyone's now found individual, everyone's got, you know, up to a certain point, a family and everyone's doing their own thing and yes, you know, in order for us to meet, we do have to

sort of, you know, make time for this and it is very important and, you know, I'm guilty. I'm just one of the, one of the calls here because I was on vacation and you know, I know one gave me crap for it but it was sort of you know something I probably could have you know canceled something during my vacation to get on that call I probably would have made my wife very unhappy but you know there's some small things along the way but yes I do agree we do need to sort of communicate more often when we do have her you know sit down and talk and communicate it is it is good the hard part is getting you know 20 25 guys on the, you know, sit down and talk and communicate, it is good. The hard part is getting, you know, 20, 25 guys on the Zoom.

You know, it's kind of a weird situation when, you know, one guy talks, a screen move, and everyone's around, you know, if everyone starts to talk, he's they're passionate about something, and it's pretty hard, a pretty hard deal. I'm sure anyone who's been on the Zoom with more than 10 people can understand, especially when no one's muted. But who's the worst at that? Who doesn't mute the zoo? Oh, I'm not out now.

It's just like, it just happened. You know what I mean? Usually one of us gets on Zoom where the ones are supposed to be talking. So with a sponsor or whatnot. But yeah, I'd say moving forward. It is an easy fix. Just everyone needs to get together and talk more often.

Information needs to be relayed more often, we just need to be in the know more often about sort of what's happening, what's the plan of action, you know, what the deadlines are, things like that. And it kind of goes in and out to be honest, sort of like sometimes it's, you know, we have a meeting and things are really good and it kind of just goes quiet

because this is our off season right now. I really suppose to be Thanksgiving for families and then people are leaving the country and etc. So it's a work in progress. You know getting you know the top players to communicate better. You know I'm guilty of it. I'm so glad that you missing that Zoom call was not part of these live rumors at all. I would just add a whole nother layer to the well, Saners get the Zoom call like he's definitely leaving then for live.

I think we can all agree. I don't know. I don't know. I was drinking a nap. I don't know. I wrote in that call on my call. I think I'll leave. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Precision Pro Golf,

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You need one in your bag, precisionprogolf.com has the right products for you. Swing with confidence, hit more greens with precision pro golf. Let's get back to Xander. Kind of tying that back in, it's looking at how much things have changed, right? And this is where I'm trying to get to the bottom of understanding, you know, can we place blame at the feet of the, you know, the executive layer of the PGA tour for not putting these changes in place at all before live, you know, kind of force these changes. Or is it possible? Is it fair to say also like it's really tough to ask the decision makers to

make decisions while they're getting different lines of communication from a ton of different players. Phil might be saying this, you might be saying this, Peter Maldonadi might be saying this, James Han might be saying this, there was not a cohesive message that was delivered to them to say, hey, do this, which made their job pretty challenging, I would think, from now. And it seems like that is something that you guys have taken on to change to say, we're all going to get together now and then come to you to say, do this. And if you don't do it, that's a big, big problem.

But for the first time, really, ever, we're arming you with a specific blueprint for how to make this happen. Is that a fair summary of kind of the last couple of years? Yeah. for how to make this happen. Is that a fair summary of kind of the last couple of years? Yeah, I mean, I say so. You know, whether the tour was, like you said, I mean, so many people want so many different things. And, you know, the tour had all the top studs, you know, I mean, and when five of them want different things,

that's pretty tricky on sort of how they're supposed to approach it, how they're supposed to attack it. And yes, it did take, you know, an outside tour That's pretty tricky on sort of how they're supposed to approach it how they're supposed to attack it and Yes, it did take you know an outside Tour to really stir the pot and really accelerate sort of what certain people have wanted I mean even I'd say even some of the people that have left Sort of what they have wanted you know in terms of having a better product It's sort of sad to me from that standpoint, but to be completely fair as well to the tour,

I mean, you just don't really know, until you know, I guess, if I can apply that to the situation because everything was from the outside and sort of from my perspective, sort of not being on the inside, like everything was sort of fine. You know what I mean?

I mean, from what we saw, the sponsors were happy, the tour was happy, the certain increases here and there. Each year, there's a forecast for, I mean, they're supposed to be, I sat down in the meeting and I can't remember what room the Florida may be. One of these tournaments, there's a meeting about our forecast before this whole study thing

really rolled out about where our purses are going in 2025. And that was already in place. I mean, there's media contracts that are coming through. And Jay's been kind of pedal that and promising us for bigger purses, obviously, with this outside influence that has expedited and largely increased those purses as well to sort of just make sure that you know we are still

planning on the best tour and providing sort of you know I wouldn't say the biggest purses but you know comparable purses and what we will have are sort of 12 I guess yeah next year 12 events where you know the top players in the world will show up. I think that's something that's ever happened before. So the product has gotten better. And yes, it's been reactive. But like you said, it probably wouldn't. I think it was definitely struggled to be proactive because I just didn't really know which direction

to run it. Yeah, and that's where I guess my sympathy for the decision makers there. When you're dealing with a totally irrational actor on the other side that doesn't really, isn't really playing by a business model, it is just really tough to compete with. And if you get into an arms race with them, that's a recipe for disaster. And that's where, you know, what you touch on there is like things seem fine from the players perspective. That's kind of where I think a lot of my frustration has come with this is, it's like things are as good as they've probably ever been, you know, financially and set up

wise for a lot of guys in the tour and leaving that, you know, for more money, just reeks of greed to me, whereas like, dude, I like rooting for competitive golf. Like, that's where it is, and I'm not, you know, I'm not speaking for all golf fans here. There are a lot of fans out there that seem to be a fan of what's going on here, but I like competitive golf. And watching that get disrupted, you know, was kind of a, is a very weird year. And I'm curious, like, if there was a result of this meeting or going forward, what do you see changing from an entertainment aspect in golf? We've long, you know, asked for like, Hey, let me need like players, microphone up. I think there's maybe too many commercials in golf like that the, entertainment aspect, I believe if I understand right, was at least discussed in that meeting

to say, you know, when we all get together, TV ratings are better and blah, blah, blah, and how do we focus on entertaining people as well going forward? Do you see any of that changing either in the near-term or in the long term? Yeah, like you said, I mean, I am also a fan of competition, you know, whether it's in golf or any sport or you and I try to throw a piece of paper into a trash can. Like I just competing as something that was discussed, not really to... There was something I was touched upon. I think it's definitely something I need to be reviewed, I say, sort of how golf is delivered

to the audience. I mean, this is really... I am so subject. I'm the one to be playing, so I don't really know how to make it better for someone on the outside. Now, I'm really maybe doing a survey for a bunch of people or hiring a different company to do something

to really sort of change the traditional mold. I mean, we have an audience, a captive audience of several people, but also a certain age group, a very dominant age group, and that mold, like you said, of how golf is viewed or delivered, has not really changed, and I think that is definitely something where we can change it and maybe change the age of our mean average here of our audience here. You know, make it a little bit younger, try and get the kids involved. I mean, I don't blame, you know, kids for watching other sports.

I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of watching golf myself. I used to be away from you to fall asleep on the TV, what with my dad on Sunday after, you know, right after sort of the Chargers game started at 105 on CBS. That was sort of my way to fall asleep is, you know, watching the back nine of a PGA Tour event, whether it was really exciting or not, you know, it kind of does off. But obviously now, much bigger fan of golf than I was as a child and I look at things differently. But I think you're right.

There is definitely a way to sort of attack this and make it more exciting and Give it a more personal look at sort of what's going on out there Hey, man, well, I appreciate you humoring all of all the questions I have along that front I know I want to dive in a little bit. This is the first time you've been on our podcast and I Listen to your episode that you did on the altus podcasts a few years ago with with Cameron and and Cory and I'm on the altous podcast a few years ago with Cameron and Corey. And I'm fascinated by, and I think, you know, maybe the audience doesn't have a full appreciation to understanding for your relationship with your dad as it relates to your career. I want you to tell us about that.

And assume the listener knows absolutely nothing. Assume the listener doesn't know that he's your coach going back to the very beginning and how it has related to your golf career. Where does that story start for you? Oh, man. What a thing to unpack. I don't know how to transition related to your golf career? Where does that story start for you? Oh, man, what a thing to unpack. I don't know how to transition that. Yeah, he is, you know, my dad, he's nicknamed Ogre. That came years later, but everyone really calls him that

on the driving range. Bromance, the golf course of the young age, didn't let me come out until I could carry my own bag. Carry the weight of my own bag. I wouldn't be a burden to him in his friends golfing on the weekend. I started from the 100 yard marker, 150 yard marker, just like every other kid.

And then I'd say golf was really fun. I played soccer as well. You know, my dad's half-bring chapter, really international, played a love soccer. I still enjoy watching soccer. We'll definitely tune in the World Cup here. Probably not as much as other sports, but I do really like watching it.

Still, we'll play in it. And then it was a team game. I really didn't like losing on a team, so my dad said, and golf is an individual sport. It'll beat the crap out of you and driving nuts. But if you suck, you suck yourself, and if you do well, you get to do well in your own as well. So I decided I wanted to play golf. I was about 13. My dad told me that I was giving some stupid things in school.

Normal teenager, my dad might be kind of run free now for the most part. And then he kind of said, if I wanted to be really dedicated and committed to something, he needs my verbal commitment and for me to show that I am committed to this one thing. If I want to get on a PGA tour, what I can do is best to help me, but I need to show some commitment. So pretty much from 13 years old on, I made a pretty hard commitment to him and myself that this is what I want to do, I threw all my eggs in one basket. Yeah, I guess that worked sacrifice kind of kicked in early and then pretty much chased. My dad's been my only swing coach, but I've ever had my entire life.

You know, I've seek advice one other time, but my dad's been in the whole way. I have a putting coach with me. You know, my dad was every coach. She was my caddy, she was my coach, she was my mental coach. My dad wore pretty much every hat. He still wears, you know, a few hats in what I do now for managing and sort of being my eye on my swing now still and some small things, whether it's a little concierge kick here and there or just being a friend.

But yeah, he's pretty much a staple, I'd say, in my life still now and I would not be here without him. I find that fascinating in terms of being, you know, helping, I'd say in my life, still now, and I would not be here without him. I find that fascinating in terms of being helping, I just think there's such a vast, vast difference between helping your son develop a golf swing in his teenage years and helping your son potentially be the best player in the world. The level of detail is so different

and to watch that success unfold just fascinates me, right? I mean, there's a reason why a lot of a lot of pros switched to, you know, touring pro coaches when they get to the highest level. I would think, right? But you guys have a bunch to make this work. Yeah, I mean, I, he's, I mean, he still says it now, you know, I mean, we talk a lot. It definitely has slowed down sort of his involvement. I brainstorm, I rabbit hole a lot distance. I don't know if what I have is good enough. If it's not good enough, we'll find someone else. That was with cutting, he was trying to help me and I was losing my mind. I just felt like I wasn't getting better.

And so I found my putting coach. And then he gave up that hat. And so he's still now, you know, it's a good thing to have a good time. And I think that's what I think he's doing. And I think that's what I think he's doing. And I think that's what I think he's doing. And I think that's and I was losing my mind. I just felt like I wasn't getting better. And so I found my putting coach. And then he gave up that hat.

And so he's still now, you know, is in the boat of, you know, if I can't help you, if I'm no longer of need in this space, then I will step out. And someone else has to step in or no one has to step in. Because it's just kind of me and him for a session of kind of I'm kind of used to that sort of feeling and mold, uh, of trying to sort of scramble and get it done on our own. Well, yeah, I've heard you describe yourself as a teenager as a kid as being a bit of a

punk or you mentioned it there. You were, you were, what were you up to as a teenager that was, uh, that you would make yourself describe yourself as a punk? I mean, just if I saw a kid just doing what a normal, curious kid would do, you know what I mean? Dabbling into trying to get into older kids parties or you know, look and try and you know, dabble in the alcohol or trying to figure out

what marijuana is or things like that. Not saying that I did those things. Allegedly. Stature limitations is up. I feel like you're good. My dad knows everything. And he was kind of made me laid out on the table for him.

And it's not, yeah, when I say punk, that's kind of how I'd scour. I don't, I wasn't a bad kid by no means. They're just, you weren't a game. Were you curious? No. I was just a curious, I was a normal, curious kid. If I saw a 13 or 14 year old doing it now, I'd probably start laughing. While their parents were panicking, I don't know if I'll panic at some stage, but I don't

know why if I'm probably panic if she saw her 13 year old 14 year old trying to do those things. I don't know what I would do. There'll be a bridge I can cross at some future time here. But yeah, I'd say it's pretty normal. You know, every kid was curious at some point and either dabbled and do it when you're 13 or when you're 17, when you're out of your parents trying, my parents were pretty, they worked a lot early on. So I had a lot of freedoms.

They weren't really strict about curfew or anything like that. So I kind of, you know, explored a little bit and you know, never did anything. That was going to cause brain damage. So I'm here now. You were kind of rising. You were rookie. I guess when I kind of started doing this job full time. And I guess I was kind of curious or didn't really understand your path to professional golf in terms of not a ton of people. If I hadn't understand this right, come out of San Diego State and win Ricky the year on the PGA tour, right? And listen to that altist pod. It seems to tie back to either a late kind of, uh, I wonder what the college like process was like for you.

And is it really go back as much as you kind of not being on early radars and doing age AGA didn't get you in a college recruiting cycle that, uh, kind of seems to to run college golf, if you will. And you kind of took a, not a back road to it, but you always were this talent, but you just didn't have the stage to display it as much at an amateur level. I'm just, help explain kind of your rise to the PGA tour. Yeah, I think there's a little bit of that,

but just, played Bloomer, you know, I was just good, I was just a little bit good. You know, I mean, I think even when I look at it now, I mean, I mean, I remember asking certain kids and like, junior golf, I'd walk up to, I was never, never shot at ask for help.

Like when it comes to golf, or just, you know, someone that was better than me, even now, you know, I'll see, you know, JT Jordan, you know, I'll walk up to him and ask him, and you know, it's up to them to tell me, or not, you know, I've been told now before, I'll just be asking for help. I took this back road, AJJs, I'm assuming they're still outrageously expensive to do. In the awesome circuit, if you can afford to do it in a really good place to nurture a golfer,

but just really expensive. I just did the SEPGA route, playing Toyota Tourore Cups, you know, along my coast in California. You could drive to pretty much every site, you know, two rounds, only sort of one hotel day needed or one night of hotel needed. So it was much more affordable and the traction from it for college recruiting wise was pretty decent. So I just played, I think I have like six second place finishes in these three-o-torque-up events which got me, you know, on

the board here and then I went to Long Beach State my rookie year decided to go to a smaller golf school. You know, I had an option to go to bigger golf schools but my dad and I sort of sat down, talked a lot of coaches and assistant coaches and looked at facilities, we just figured that, you know, my dad was really aware, I was a little bit behind in terms of how good I was at a certain age, comparatively to other kids, and me competing and playing every single college term is gonna be more important than me being on a really good college team. So I went to Long Beach State and then, you know,

our coach left after three months there. So it's kind of on my own there, which is, I guess, turn out to be a good thing about now to look at it in terms of me becoming friends with a lot of teammates there and developing sort of our own practice routine and things like that, that's 17 or 18 years old. Then I transferred to San Diego State after three years

and then, yeah, same thing, I only won one tournament long beach and maybe two tournaments or two, both our home events at San Diego State. So, you know, if you look at my college career, I won three times in four years and not stellar, right? I mean, I was ranked, I think the highest ranking you got in the amateur world ranking was probably like, I don't know, in the teens, like mid-teens-ish probably. So I never really sort of got on the other side of like getting the, and if you look at my class of 2011, I mean, damn, how hard would it to get tour starts, you know, to be one of those kids that get sort of those seven tour starts as an amateur coming out of college. I just, you know, so maybe if I was

in a different class, not the bag on any other class, I would have maybe been a little bit higher up just because my class, if you just, you know, I don't think anyone would take offense if you just run down the names of 20, love, the class of 2011 and sort of what I was up against there, but it definitely made me better, and it definitely sort of, you know, made my path just slower because that's just who I was. You know, I just wasn't shooting 63 on any given day like I can now. So I just wasn't as good. Well, I think there's something to, I guess that's kind of also what I'm trying

on pack is like having a game that profiles really well for the top level of pro golf doesn't necessarily display itself at the lower levels, right? If you can drive it, yeah. If you drive it like you do, that has a bigger effect on the golf courses you guys play than it does where you're playing like a lot of college tournaments, is that fair to say? Yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly.

I just had to really first statement. I mean, I would definitely like, I would never shoot really low. I wouldn't shoot outrageously, you know, I thought I was going to shoot something high, I'd be like 75 or 76 or 74 or something like that. I wouldn't shoot like 8, it would blow it out of the water. Of course I did, but when I was kind of competing and then I'd shoot a lot of like, you know, 70s.

So when I got on the harder course or when the wind was blowing and it was difficult and I shot even par, like, you you know I realized I could laugh field and so Sort of difficult golf is where I thrived and I just took it took a while to learn how to score and shoot the you know 62 when there's no wind and when everyone's firing at pins and when the average score of the day is like 67 so it was just something I just a skill. I had to develop you know I didn't have the tools to shoot 62. You know, it's still a hard thing to do, but just sort of, you know, picking up random birdies

where you can is just something, it was sort of a skill I had to develop because it was sort of like, I made a lot of easy pars and then had to learn how to make more birdies as I got, as I developed on tour. So it was really good game plan that I had for Q-school. You know what I mean, with sort of it being three months apart, your game meeting longevity, you know, having to plan different grasses, having to plan different courses, but I think my game

was more built for Q school and I was able to get through six top five in majors, zero major wins. What has to change to get that coveted major win and then the same same vein. How do you what do you feel like walking off a golf course? After finishing top five in a major like golf fans tend to kind of lament the close call and just say, hey, when's he going to get it done and likely don't appreciate the accomplishment that is you know finishing that high and an event that everyone is trying to peak for. So what what is that journey been like for you pursuing a major championship win. What does that journey been like for you pursuing a major championship win? Yeah, awesome. Been really fun. You know, pretty much exactly what I envisioned as a kid, being in the hunt at a major is pretty hard to describe.

And yeah, some of those top five are probably, you know, a Sunday, a lower score on Sunday, and I was in 12th and then I shopped into the top five. So that is a rewarding Sunday and a rewarding golf tournament like, hey, you know, we did, you know, it's good week. Some of those are, you know, was in the lead or coastal lead and, you know, had a meltdown along the way or had some big score come in.

Those hurt more obviously than the others. But, you know, it is so fickle in my mind, in the high ranks of golf, just even in the top, I'd say 50 on a PGA tour. It's really fickle. You know, it's such a tight line, you know, you try and walk, and I have to just remind of myself that every day, that man, in the chase to become better, you can probably get way worse pretty easily. So I need to be pretty patient in my process of what I need to make better to give myself

a real opportunity. And so in order for me to win a major I haven't done it and I have ideas of what I need to do to do it. But I'd say I've had plenty of game to get it done just now and I just either need to be in the correct wave, get off, you know, get off to a better start, have the right sort of mindset throughout the week. There's so many little things that come into play that can affect sort of my ability or what's going to, you know, push me over the edge. And so my whole plan is to just try and make myself so much better at certain things that even if I'm not firing you know at all on all cylinders I still will have a chance you know I think right now in our sports there's just

a couple guys that really you know off the top of my head obviously our current number one in the world you know Scotty played unbelievable he had a nice run there as number one and I'm sure he'll get back there at some point, but Rory's played just... He kind of like, you know, he hit it so far that he pretty much will always be in every hole and he will always have an opportunity to score and get a score because he will take advantage of par-fives and certain things. It's a comfortable place that yeah he is, he is his true number one right now and he does play like a week and week out and you know, he played and unbelievable stretch of golf and you imagine throughout, you know, no one can play perfect golf for eight months.

You know they're going to play some crabby golf in between and that hasn't really showed on his card which means that his crabby golf is pretty damn good. And I want to get to that point where, whether it's firepower that I need to increase, whether it's my iron play, I pick the part with my team every year. That's what we all do, what you know what I mean? And it is a tough journey because if you are really good

at something and you need to try and get better at something else, you kind of go where the fire is burning. And all of a sudden you leave kind of the rest of your game aside to try and get better at one thing and then now you're playing the tier tauter with your entire game and your golf swing and just trying to maintain what you have and being okay with what you have. So I'm on this sort of slow patient grind of trying to get like incrementally better in certain areas without losing certain parts of my game.

Well, I wonder if you could help me with this too, because I don't know how to describe this as much, but it seems like at the highest level, it is not necessarily a, you know, you give yourself a lot of chances to win majors. Whatever has happened to this point, it is pretty much just like how the, how things have fallen, right? If you, it doesn't mean you have choked, it doesn't mean you can't get it done. It's just like, hey, that's just how it fell on the back nine of, of this go around, right? And if you look back at a lot of people's careers, like a lot of the top winning

major champions of all time have all had really close calls and Something changes something goes their way. It's not even necessarily It's not always all a reflection of What your capabilities and what your ability is as much as it is like yeah, that's just that's what happened today on this on this final Five whole stretch and I'm wondering just like how you kind of cope with that or is that a a way of kind of describing What has happened? This is what happened, but that doesn't mean it defines me. Yeah, I mean, I wear it pretty hard, I'd say, when things do happen, you know, I'm pretty disappointed, upset, go to the drawing board pretty quickly. Or I mean, I have weighed a couple days, but I'll go to the drawing board, trying to see

if I can read a stuff. I mean, you know, I'd say to this point, if I do try and do anything, and all you can do is really give yourself a chance coming down the stretch, like you said. And we all hope to be that sort of mental monster coming down the stretch where we will pull off the shot or we will make the pot or be that guy, I guess.

And sometimes it's just not as fancy that you kind of just be really boring. And it makes, you know, everything's going wild around you. But you just kind of just be really boring and kind of kind of plot through. I mean, if you look at the travelers, it wasn't all the excitement was happening around me. I just kind of had to stay the course

and kind of just be a, kind of just so it can kind of just keep walking, you know what I mean? Don't really let it, like don't try and do anything crazy, don't try and, you know, push it and force it at all, you know, just kind of let things happen. And that's one scenario where, you know, things went my way. Obviously there are other scenarios where, you know, at the Masters with the deck, yeah, I tried to, I was in full, full push mode.

I felt the momentum going my way. And I was in between clubs, grabbed the last and kind of turned this eight iron against the wind, flushed it. I mean, I hit that thing perfect. And it got really, really stood up. And then on the next, I dropped on my next shot. And I took a club as if it was into the wind again

and kind of turned it up against the wind and my ball flew straight over the green. So like you said, things kind of happen. And there is a certain risk assessment that us pros need to take every, you know, on every hole and have your shot. And when you push it, it sometimes works and sometimes it really doesn't.

So obviously the most rewarding thing is is taking a high risk shot and pulling it off, but high risk for that reason alone in its definition. So I don't really know if I answered your question, but I don't even know if I asked a question. It was just kind of like, you know, you know, it just doesn't, it's something that is like it's really boring. Honestly, if you like really break it down in terms of like what makes it really good

player versus an average player is like half of, you know, half of a shot better over a 10 shot time. Right. Right. So minimal. And I think it just people tend to weigh so much on what happens in the final four or five holes. And that doesn't necessarily reflect what's going to happen the next time you're in that scenario is kind of what I was getting. Yeah. Well, us players who are guilty of that sort of concept as well. You know what I mean. And that's what I said. The only thing I can really, with my statement prior to, I guess, questions that you asked, you know, with everything I said there trying to get a little bit better here. And the only thing I would really be upset about is if I just, because I know what I have right now is good enough to pull myself in contention.

Obviously, I haven't won enough as much as I think I can. So, me trying to make myself better is obviously in the hope to win more, put myself in a position to win more. The worst thing I can do is, like you said, you know, you need, you're not going to go five or five or 10 for 10 and golf. You're not going to do that in any sport, you know what I mean? So you just need to really put yourself in position more often in order to sort of learn how to win.

And I'm a big believer in learning how to win. I wasn't going to do it, you know, really throughout college or junior golf with, you know, accumulating, you know, I don't know, less than 10 trophies in my entire career before I stepped on a corn fairy tour or PJ tour. So I think learning the win is, you know, people are said they're born winners. And, you know, I think you do have sort of like a winning mentality, like I am like I said competitive as hell when it comes to anything. So I say I do have that sort of grit and grind in my blood, but I think like you said, learning how to win and learning how to deal with the punches

and learning that it's okay to sort of make a mistake and move forward and learn from that is sort of acceptable. And it is the thing you can do or skill you can learn or achieve. Look, I know we gotta let you go here soon, but one who want to ask this, you've been a part of two presidents cup teams and a rider cup team. You're yet to be a part of a losing US team. So I'm curious your perspective on how much of a burden, if at all, do you feel as the US looks ahead to Rome in 2023 on a continent they have not won on in 30 years. Do you do you feel any of that or does it feel like, you know, as a as a member of a team that,

you know, has been invincible since you've been on it. Do you, you know, what's your perspective on that? Yeah, I mean, I say our, we're young. We're young. We're excited. We have gone a taste of sort of what holding that cup as a unit feels like. And I'd like to sort of go into Rome. We have our meetings where we all need to, because we're so young, because we like to joke around, we do have those meetings where we say we need to be real to end, we need to be more serious, we need to make sure we're focused and dialed. It is almost pointless because if you do look in the room, everyone in that

room has the ability and has done it where they get really serious, they get really focused and they do go on to win something. So it is such a special team or special teams I've been a part of that. You know, I really just think if the worst thing we can do is sort of get caught up in sort of the burden or the idea that we have in one somewhere. It's almost like when you watch the Warriors play basketball, it drives a... If you're not a fan of them, it drives you crazy, just watching sort of dance around and get really excited and kind of be like the team that looks like they're having a lot of fun kicking your ass. I think that's sort of a mentality that we'll just kind of have to carry through.

Obviously, it's golf, it's different, but we have to be more serious, more focused, our preparation, I believe the Warriors do all that, but the way they kind of go about their business, it just looks very nonchalant, and looks very relaxed, and our team is so young and so hungry that I think we can kind of combine that a little bit on foreign soil and make sure we don't get caught up in sort of the drama and seriousness of losing so many times that, you know, if you do our own thing, we can kind of write our own story

and we'll just be fine. That's what's interesting about it. It's like, hey, don't go over there and carry the burden, but also don't go over with the air against that maybe previous teams have gone over with and gotten punched in the face when they get there and they start hearing crowds cheer against it but things like that.

It's a fine line. It is. I cannot wait to see what happens. It's going to be a fun build up to it. But well, glad you're feeling better. And thank you very much for spending some time with us this morning answering some some decently tough questions. I pressed you a little bit, but enjoyed it and hope to do it again sometime.

Appreciate times, Inter. Thanks Chris. Take your time. Cheers. I thought good enjoyed it and hope to do it again sometime appreciate times enter thank you thank you for time cheers right club beat a right club today that's better than most how about him that is better than most better than most. Better than most.