No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 623: Harry Higgs

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

Harry Higgs rejoins the pod to discuss his on course struggles during 2022, how it affected his relationships, his mental health dealing with the loss of his tour card, and how he fought through those struggles heading into 2023. We also get into the new elevated events structure and its impact on rank and file members of the PGA Tour, the long term benefits and the risks of the new TV deal, some LIV talk and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sally here, checked in with our old friend Harry Higgs talking about struggling. He's gone through over the last year or so since the Masters kind of, yeah, he explains it all.

I don't need to explain it to you. He does reference Corey a lot. Corey is Corey Lundberg, his coach, the oldest performance. And he's also my coach. I don't need to explain it to you. He does reference Corey a lot. Corey is Corey Lundberg his coach The oldest performance and he's also my coach. I haven't seen him in a long time I'm hoping to change that actually very soon But if you're wondering who that is and Al is his brother Al Higgs who is his caddy a lot of great stuff from Harry Talking a lot about his golf on the front end and the back end is PGA tour stuff live stuff

Developments and everything. It's some of the best stuff we've heard on this show I think of Perspective on how it's all going to work. And Harry, obviously, knows the ins and outs of a lot of it. It's episodes brought to you by our friends at Roeback. You know Roeback. You've seen it everywhere, whether you realize it. The best way to describe them is best fit, best feel.

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We were getting tight up against the US soccer game today. And I'm glad we sweated that one out. That had been tough to do a podcast. Well, all that's going on. Just yelling into the into the mics. I'm sure. Yeah. That was a big time sweat. Looked great. Now, again, not

that I really know anything about soccer looked great in the first half and then look like they're trying to hang on for dear life. Pretty cool. It gives me another thing to do while I'm kind of sitting around doing nothing Saturday morning. Get to watch a little soccer. What is this time of year like for you this time around? What's what's the state of Harry Higgs as we as we check in with you in late November 2022? You know, I just I thought about it the other day or sorry, late earlier today about this time of year. It's nice.

Obviously everybody needs a break. I mean, from everybody within golf, the people that cover it, the people that play it, the people, you know, caddies, the torture, the tour staff. It would like a break up. Sure they're a little busier than I am over the next couple of weeks. But yeah, this is, I mean, more of an optimistic state than, than what I would have been after the last couple of weeks that I've played.

Also, I just had a brief thought this, this, this morning, like, okay, well, the last three winner breaks that I've had, I have, you know, at least had one top 10 in the fall. I've had a crude way more FedEx Cup points and the whole thing, but I seem to be for whatever reason less worried about, I guess, what's to come than any other year, right? Somebody asked me, see Island after Friday,

I think they had Joel, Obviously Joel comes on and talks and work forever linked. But he talked about kind of the fear and the losing your job, right? The fear of kind of failing and being knocked down a rum. So yeah, I mean, I've just spoke on a bit there and then also just having you, obviously, I in a way did lose my job. My, I lost last year played poorly enough to, to lose my right to, or ability to play whatever I want now, the kind of schedule is made for me. But in a way that also is just kind of nice. I know what I'm going to play and I know kind of roughly the amount of times that I'm going to play and you've got to just go and, and sell your business at those events.

Um, I'm enjoying some rest. Uh, I'm, I'm going into this kind of holiday and then win a break with far less points than I ever have and I am way more optimistic about the 2023 stretch of the year than maybe I've ever been. So you've given some great interviews lately just about, it seems like you've had a newfound perspective on, you have not had your best year really after the Masters. If people that don't follow your career on a week to week basis, if you want to give us a rundown of what things have been like really since the Masters for you and how you've

maybe come out of that on the other end, I've enjoyed seeing you smiling up there and giving a lot of perspective on things because I saw a grumpy man. I have a story to tell you a little bit about. No, I was, I don't remember what the podcast was. I listened to Darni every one of them, but you did shout out a time when you guys were at Colony, and you had spoken about it. But the player went unnamed and then said player was later named to me. So I, we will get to that.

I'm very curious kind of what you saw. Kind of the impetus of this was my brother, slash caddy Alex, my girlfriend, she had a lot to do is that she was always harping on it. And then Corey, it was a lot of just like, man, we don't really care. Throughout that stretch run, basically after the masters, I played like shit for whatever it might have been,

four, five, six months. I think I might have made like two cuts and two, maybe three cuts, and if I did, I finished like 60th or worse in the events where I was playing the weekend. First bit, like my skills weren't where I wanted them to be, so that irritates, that just irritates you, right? You put it on this work, you know what you are capable of,

and you know, just just sadly the skills don't come along for the ride. But my brother, girlfriend and coach Corey, they all for a while were really trying to we spoke to a couple sports psychologists, not we I did, but they were just kind of pleading with me to just like relax and obviously it's a very hard thing to do to relax. After you come up 14th place finish in Augusta, you feel like things are really trending upwards. You're probably gonna have a play halfway these and go up and have a few chances to win

throughout the summer, where mine was the exact opposite. I played like shit. And I'm every week I go out there, I'm staring, losing my job in the face, right? So it's just difficult. And they all understood that. And they, but the plead was like, can we just job in the face, right? So it's just difficult. And they all understood that. But the plead was, can we just get our guy back, man? It affects all of us off the golf course.

But I was not, at times I was miserable off the golf course, too. But just like, man, can we just have some fun out here and smile and joke and laugh and do our best to laugh off bad shots? And then if I think back even during the stretch, like, so yeah, the quality of shots probably wasn't what I wanted, but they really weren't. The reaction to the actual result,

whether the result was not as poor as the reaction was. Yeah, at the same time, like, every golfer has gone through like a time period, whether it be a round or a series of rounds where like, I know I'm being a bitch right now and I can't get out of it. I know that I'm way more upset about this than I should be, but I can't get out of that. And I that's what I found interesting about kind of the perspective you've shared the last couple of weeks.

Yeah. The worst part about it is in the reason why I am reluctant in a way to speak to a, I guess you would say, like licensed professional sports psychologist, whoever it may be, is most of the time, at least in my understanding of what I would hear from those individuals, is like awareness, you know, recenter, deep breaths, right, like be present. I am always present in that, like I am so self-aware to almost my fault that I know I'm acting so poorly and I should stop and I was not stopping.

And I'm still, I wouldn't say acting poorly, currently, but like I'm gonna get mad. I like the disclaimer with Alan Corey was, I mean, okay, let's do this. We need to we need to tackle this But like I'm still gonna say fuck like I'm gonna get pissed and I'm gonna and I might like you know Al you're there with me five hours a day. I might you know Hammer you on something that I feel you shouldn't have done, but like I was just doing it As a way to like basically express to

My fellow players caddies that you know the folks inside the ropes of ropes outside the like basically express to my fellow players, caddies, the folks inside the ropes, the ropes outside the rope, like express to them that, oh, you know, I am really good. I just hit that bad shot, I am really good, so I'm just gonna get really, really mad about it. So you guys all think that like this doesn't happen that often, right?

And a lot of that was in the beginning of the year after the Phoenix event, which we all know what happened there, like not gonna say I started having a hard time being me because I've never really had a hard time being me. I've always been, been me and enjoyed being me. But I had a hard time with like the recognition and people coming to watch me play all this stuff, which is something that I love,

but they were coming, maybe not necessarily because of my results and my, like, you're going to really be like, come watch me playing. You're going to see some really, really great golf shots. So that was kind of the start of how it all just teeter downward. And then it did get to a point where it just felt like, I mean, I was aware while I was doing it, like, act out, cause a scene to let, like, almost subconsciously to let people and others know that, like, yeah, it's okay. I'm really good at this.

I might have just hit it in the water three times in a row, but I'm still really good at this, right? Which just serves fucking no one. Obviously, it doesn't do me any good. And when it makes my poor brother, it's really, really hard to be around me. I still think that I did a pretty decent job of when I left. Maybe they needed to give me half hour an hour, but once I left, I was, but I, I mean,

I was irritable at times, and I, you know, we all still are, I'm a fucking hema being, but I was irritable to, you know, be a dinner with or stay in a rental house with. I did a pretty good job of shrugging it off after a while, but that's just, it's just hard, man, you know that you're doing it and I just wouldn't, wouldn't fucking stop. And I guess in a way, like took losing my,

I didn't lose my job necessarily, but it took losing my ability to pick my schedule and my certainty of how many events I'd be in. And even it didn't, like, I didn't, the flip didn't switch then either. You know, I played shit in the Cornflake finals. I played poorly in the first two, Napa and Jackson. And then Bermuda was kind of the start. I played great. The first day shot 700. It was a very, the conditions were very easy. But like, okay, we're starting to turn it around

and then I acted like a complete ass all day Friday. And it was raining and windy and I hate playing in the rain. No excuses, but I played poorly and missed the cut. I went from like, you know, tied for seven without the first day to missing the cut. And it was just like, Cory and Al and everybody stays away for a couple of days. It's like, all right, man, how are we gonna attack this?

Come, you know, the next week, shout out Keith Mitchell for pushing an invite through for me to get into my Aikoba. So I'm playing the next week. And I think it was Wednesday. I talked to Corey and Al. We had talked some throughout the week and how do we attack this? How, like, how can we shake this? Because we did like, we did half of it. And it was like, guys, I'm now, now I'm just fed up and I'm tired of like the failure. I mean, it's just, I'm not upset about it. I'm not, but I'm just tired of like the failure. I mean, it's just, I'm not upset about it. I'm not, but I'm just tired of it, right?

I mean, it's just miserable, man. It's, it sucks. I know that I'm, I know that I'm trending. I know that I'm, I'm close. It's just if I can get out of my own fucking way, I think it like works the worst. I'm gonna do a shoot like even par if I just start acting like a golfer again.

A professional golfer, right? Somebody that like knows deep down at some point things are gonna turn around. And the really the conversation was left pretty open. I just kind of aired it out to Corey and my brother. And I went out that first day in Mexico and I think I might have shot two or three under. It was a little bit of a few mistakes here and there

and I was like really close to blowing up but I held in, held it and held held in and then I went out there that Friday and it was like okay well I mean I have missed probably I didn't do the fucking numbers but I've missed probably 14 of 17 cuts leading up to that day and I start the day on the cut line and like I just kind of teed off was like I'm just gonna do a really good job today and see what the fuck happens. I don't really care where it goes. I'll just figure it out. And I went out and shoved the easiest 900 par, which I know I don't want to like slight people, but most people don't understand that it is possible to shoot 900 very easily.

Technically not that easy, but I mean, it was that day. And I think I've made the turn and I hold a wedge. And then I made another birdie birdie on a par five. And it was like, huh, I think if I birdie in, I'd break 60. So I might as well just fucking do that. And I actually had great looks and wound up missing a few pots and then birdie the last for 62. And it was like a wait, it was just lifted off my shoulders. It's like, oh, okay, it almost took that I had to show it to myself. I had to show that if you can act appropriately and just kind of trust that over time,

even like a poor shot that you act appropriately, that too, probably even later on in that day, you're gonna hit a good shot, just because of how you acted, you know, three or four holes before when a poor one came. Would you carry that into your next shot, though? Like that, that's a tiger thing is like, you can get as mad as you want after, but the next by the time you stand over that next shot, it has to be gone. Is that, is it seeping into your next shot? I think tiger was the only one that was ever able to do that. Whether he was or not, I mean, something always says,

I don't believe that it's really even possible, right? I mean, it would get to a point where I would get so angry and frustrated and that I wouldn't get ready. And I would do this all the things that I normally do, right? Like, if you saw the routine, it would be the same, everything. But I wasn't like ready to hit the shot.

It wasn't, I didn't like just take a second, maybe take a deep breath, and just be like, all right, this is one I wanna have happen here. And these are the things that I'm gonna do to better my chances of achieving that. And that was kind of the difference, right? It was, I'm probably still gonna get pissed. I'm probably still gonna curse, probably too much.

But I'm like, when it comes, the guns about to go off, I'm gonna be ready to go. And I did a great job of that Friday, leading into the weekend, I did it. I thought I did it, you know, it gets harder and harder. Now, I'm, you know, teeing off Saturday, like I think second to last group, third to last group. I'm in like fifth place, a few shots back. like, all right, now you thought Friday was hard.

Like this shit's gonna be really hard now because there's a carrot at the end that if you had a great weekend, you win a golf tournament, things totally changed. I played solid Saturday and I missed a fucking tap in on 16 for Bogey. So I made double and it was one of those ones. So I go up and and you're just about to hit it, and I'm off balance. I'm like, oh, I can't hit it yet. And then I stopped and settled,

and then I just missed it anyway, right? And this shit just happens, it sucks, it's awful. And then they move the T's up on 17, and I storm up there, and I'm all mad. I grab a water, it's really hot. And I chug it, and I am fuming. And Al's like, basically it's driver or six iron man and it's a tough wedge flag to get close to.

If we can get driver, there's water left up. We get driver up there anywhere on grass. It's a pretty easy up and down. And I was like, all right man, I'm hit my driver and I'm gonna aim over there to the left and I'm gonna trust it. Basically every t-shirt I fit so far, it's cut back. We're gonna do that.

So like in that moment, where maybe even a couple of weeks, if not months before that, I would have just grabbed the driver and just kind of like, ah, yeah, you're going to hit over there and then swap. And then next thing, you know, it could go anywhere versus I was still pissed off when I hit it, but I was ready to go. I knew where I was intending to start it. I knew where I was going to curve it. I knew where I wanted to end it. Unfortunately, got it up and down for birdie. And no, I don't think I birdie the last, but, but made a birdie on 17 and par the last. So it's like, okay, you did it. You did what you were preaching. And I went out someday and I hit it in the frickin' mangroves too many times, but I shot even par with not my best stuff and the way that tournament is, you're gonna fall, right?

I went from like 11th to 30th because guys are gonna get it right and they're gonna play great on Sunday and unfortunately that wasn't me and then C Island was just kind of the same thing. I did it again for four days and I had looking back on it, I was like, man, I really wish I kind of swung it better. Any of those days, because then I would have ran away with it, but then flip side, it's like, oh, well, you didn't act like an asshole and you didn't hit the shots

you wanted to, the exact shots you wanted to that often. And then you were leading for 36 holes and you were too bad going into Sunday. And again, I was a little sloppy on Sunday, but not brainwise, not attitude wise. I just hit a few poor shots, and then you're battling back and battling back, and I shot even part again to fall again down the leaderboard,

but it wasn't like I imploded in next thing, you know, I'm in 45th, right? So that, as to the beginning of the podcast, the first question, that's what leads me to, you know, kind of being in a more optimistic state about my golf game and the, you know, the tournaments that are that are upcoming. Well, and that's where like it's easy to, you know, we'll finish the story where I was outing you for, for being Mopie at Colodial, was, it's like very, at the same time watching you kind of go through it and

I'm like yep, I've been there but not inside the ropes, but I've been there playing golf where I'm like dude snap out of it But you got a great opportunity here. You're blowing your wasting it blah blah You hit a shot on 11 at Colonial you'd a wedge into the wind. I think it was Friday at Colonial and it pluck I went in the bunker it came up way short and plugged in the bunker and you yelled at Al for it. And I was like, God, I love Harry. But if that was Bubba that had done that, I don't lit the hell out of Bubba on that one.

And I was like, that just seemed misplaced. It was just like, I don't know if he's like in a great mental place here because if a wedge comes up short, it's like, all right, pro, like, you know, into the wind. That's on you for the trajectory, right? There was no bad number in that. I doubt Al was talking you into less club with that. I'm like, why is he just yelling at him in the middle of the fairway right now for everyone to hear. And I know it's it's got to be it's an interesting relationship.

I'm sure just having your brother on the bag and like, you know, having a brother that you can probably give a lot of flak to over the course of your entire life. But that was the moment that I was like, it's Harry. a brother that you can probably give a lot of lack to over the course of your entire life. But that was the moment that I was like, it's, oh, Harry, what are we doing here? It's definitely easier for me than I think most to, to get on their caddy, right, to give him shit. And it's, I don't think he's ever given me a bad number. I don't think he's really ever talked me into a poor decision,

but I certainly do not necessarily treat him as such. And he's on my team, right? Like he's the only one I got in there that's really important for me. The other guy don't give a shit if I plugged in the front bunker. I was playing with Joel and Hubbard, I think. I think we were together the first two days. So maybe those guys like slightly cared. And they wouldn't care that I hid in the bunker, but maybe they're a little bummed it was plugged. But other than that, most people like don't give a shit in the bunker. And yeah, I mean, I, you know, there's no excuse for it.

And I have owned it and I'm trying to be better. But, you know, the one slight excuse is like, I mean, it was, I was probably around the cut line and I'd been around the cut line a lot where you don't want to be and I feel like my skills are better than that And I shouldn't be that I you know was around the cut line a lot and I acted like that and I wound up You know being punished for it in a way by whomever it is golf gods whatever it may be by missing a shit ton of cuts during that stress by one or two shots and you look back on it's like, man, come on. And it's less, and I've always said it's less like the points and money where it, but in that scenario, I mean, I needed some points. It's more like

just playing golf for four days, having another two days to get better and maybe being able to snap myself out of the state that I was in, right, that constant like failure, right? I mean, just constantly failing, failing, failing, failing, and that just compounded and made my attitude and my treatment of especially my brother, you know, worse. And it was, you know, next thing, you know, it started, it was, I can't remember where more towards the end of the season, Al and Corey were at an event and somebody had come up, they had come up to Al and Corey both. I think, you know, maybe just to Al and we had played with

them maybe a couple weeks before or whatnot. It was a caddy, I don't know who it was, but just kind of like pulled them aside and was like, hey, man, does he act like that all the time? I can see that intense and brutal. And like does he get that kind of upset and angry and frustrated? And they were like, well, no, but it's been like that for a while. And that was voiced to me. And I just kind of shrugged it off, which I shouldn't shrugged it off.

But I shrugged it off. But it is stuck in the back of my mind. Because I mean, I don't, it does go away. I finish my round and I maybe I go practice and get better and have lunch and then it's the way. Like I'm not, I don't think at least, and maybe somebody would tell me otherwise. I don't think I'm treating people poorly, basically an hour after my round.

But like for a while there, I was hard to shit to talk to. No, people were, I mean, I was radioactive. People were, no, like, I don't like going near that guy. I mean, so that stuck with me because that's something that I do not want, you know, my peers, players and caddies to think of me. It didn't stick with me enough at the time. I wish it had,

but it has now, and even we played with Kyle Westmoreland, who's really impressive in Burbuta, and I hit a really nice shot into the first hole on Friday after shooting seven under, and it spun off the green, and then I had a kind of gnarly little Bernudalai, and it came out soft, and next thing you know, I've got 12 feet and I'm kind of getting all angry, trying to find my ball marker in my pocket. Like, and Al didn't say anything during the round, but he brought it up, then actually in Mexico,

he's like, yeah, man, even Kyle, we're walking over there to the first tee after he made bogey and he comes over to Al, he walks by Al, I was like, oh, I think Al said me, I may get the quote, not exactly correct, but like, is Al for blood today? Like, this is gonna be a war, which I mean, Kyle would know more than any of us about that.

And it's just like, not man, that shouldn't be me. That's not, I know that's not my, Cory always likes to say my best performing stuff. Like, I can't do that and play good golf. I can get angry and frustrated, but not to a certain point, because I have in my career for a long time used kind of frustration, anger, and even failure

as kind of a driver to, and I would snap out of a quick, it would turn into kind of like refusal. It's like, all right, I'm done with this shit. I'm gonna start, whether I hit it, hit great golf shots or what, alright I'm done with this shit. I'm going to start. Whether I hit it, you know, hit great golf shots or what, but I'm just going to find a way to shoot good scores. That's really

that all that matters. So for a while there, they kind of gave me free reign to keep working my way through this. And, but it turns out maybe I don't know why or how or why, but maybe I'm not able to use anger and frustration as

well as I have been in the past. A quick break to check him in here with our friends at Woop, the personalized digital fitness and health coach and official fitness wearable of the PGA and LPGA tours. If you listen to the show over the years, I'm gonna give you the same spiel I've been given for a long time, which is, Woop helps me make better decisions about my diet,

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How much of this has been, you know, you are signed up for the Netflix series, right? To be profiled in some way. How much of that is like, you know, you are signed up for the Netflix series, right? To be profiled in some way. How much of that is like, you know, it has, you kind of alluded to it earlier of kind of adjusting to being more recognized, being a bigger personality. You're an entertainer, first of all, like that, that's, you understand this part of pro golf a lot. And it's an important part of pro golf, I think.

What has that kind of been like? Is that going to be documented in there? Do you know what rounds are following you and are have you, you know, all that stuff? So no, because again, like I said, I was pretty radioactive. I did a, what called pre-production, maybe interview, no cameras, no nothing. just the guys getting to know me. They followed around and interviewed Al a bit at Tori, and then obviously they got Joel and I's shenanigans and Phoenix, and that was it. I, you know, it was, I think they were around a little bit at Augusta, but they were around more for maybe Brooks, I want to say. And I've heard that everybody, you know, that signed up that, you know, got it, I mean, basically had enough content.

They're going to get their own episode. There's no fucking way they have enough content to, like I think the only time you're going to see me in that is when Joel and I do our, you know, hooligans and maybe just a quick brief passing word or whatever it may be, just as like the silly funny shit I might say as I walk by a camera. And it was it was hard to do that. I I signed up and I and again, I was in the back of my mind. It's like, I don't really know if I can handle all this, right? Like, it kind of third year on

tour, we've kind of elevated to a little smaller, like higher stature. And man, I kind of want it just to be quiet. I like it when it's quiet and I can just work and have my life here at home and have Al and Corey help me on the road and maybe girlfriend as well, mom, dad, you know, every kind of the team, just like we just all hang out and do our own thing. So I didn't really have them come to rental houses or whatever on the road and then it, you know,

come mid-summer. There's a couple times they reach out and it's, hey, we would love to come, you know, visit you in Dallas show, you know, come visit your home, come visit, you know, Trinity forest and see all the knuckleheads out there. And I'm at that time, it's like, I'm in a fight for my job and I'm acting like an asshole and I don't have any time I'm never gonna be home because I have to play every week from here on out to try to secure my you know playing privileges for the next year And so it wound up being I wouldn't imagine I mean other than Joel and I on 16 Yeah, I mean in a way that that was kind of this maybe the start of like oh shit I'm people are like paying attention to me which I don't mind, I really don't, but it's like, man, I'm really, I've done a lot of really good things in this game.

I haven't won one of these things yet and all this, like, I've played some really good golf and some really big tournaments and I've also done some of the silly funny off the course or even on the course stuff. So that's what people have latched onto. And then they took a liking to my personality and it is not an act, So that's what people for, you know, have latched onto. And then, you know, they took a liking to my personality and it is not an act.

So that's not a bad thing. I get to be myself and people take a liking to it. That is awesome. Because not a lot of, maybe not a lot of people in this world can say that, right? If you, if you're in front of a camera, or the other, the actors, they have to, they have to be somebody else, to be liked,

accepted, whatever it may be. But yeah, I mean, I had a hard time dealing with that. So Netflix was kind of the, yeah, kind of something that I guess really didn't work out. And if they continue to do it, I think I may take another couple years off to try to better deal with like, I guess, in a way being me.

And hopefully I have the success I'm planning. And then I get to, way being me and hopefully I have the success I'm planning and then I get to, you know, I hope to have the success and then I also hope that my, my current state of mind, my current state of being continues to progress and get better so

that I can deal with what would come with, you know, me having success and winning tournaments. And then at that point, maybe we have, we fight them to our house. For the listeners

finish outside the top 125 you're in the 126 to 150 category. You got, correct all the starts you wanted in the fall. What will you get as a part of this you know, are you going to be hoping for some sponsor

exemptions and to what events, what events, you know, are you looking to get in the most? Are you going to get enough starts? Is there any corn fairy? What is your schedule for, you know, for I was I was of the 126 to

you know, everybody goes to finals, basically. Um, and successful there. So the front of me all got their being technically, no, 120 first guy out of fully ex status. And I was able through the last two weeks to earn enough points to stay at number one. So until the next reshuffle, which is sometime around the West Coast, maybe after Phoenix or after Riv, I'm the first

guy up that's not fully exempt, right? So if the field, you know, if it goes deeper and deeper, deeper, I'm the first guy in my category would come to be first. Just off hand, the only thing that we have to go with is I think the tour, if you go onto their website, that, you know, the players and everybody uses, shows you basically like the access summary for the last five years, maybe roughly, maybe four or five years, whatever it is, doesn't matter. And if you look at that and you just go off what the previous five years were, now knowing that this year is gonna be vastly different with how kind of the structure

and what some events being elevated and kind of where they fall. Schedule, I should be able to play at least another 12 to 15 times pretty easily. And then also, I would get another crack in the fall, right? So this was the best year to be playing out of my category, whereas I just played the fall schedule. And then I also have the fall schedule next year. If not, all of the events, most of the events to continue to better my status and hopefully become, you know, fully exempting in. So in that 15 events until probably the playoffs and another four or five or six,

I will have had plenty of opportunity. I would say close to 25 playing opportunities without sponsor exemptions. And then that's kind of the fun part. I joke the kind of the social experiment, right? Did I, did I want playing off Good Golf? Did I, too, you know, do a good enough job of cultivating relationships with internment directors and then, you know, giving back to those tournaments while I played them the last three years. And then three, am I enough of a personality in a way and a draw to warrant exemptions? There is no tournament that is more of the wide-eyed social experiment than Phoenix, obviously, as you could imagine. So, you know, and if I were to get an exemption, there were one that's huge, within being elevated event now. And two, that's,

you know, the comment on kind of what Joel and I did last year, but I also have gotten to know quite a few of the Thunderbirds. They're the organization that runs it. And, you know, fortunately for me, for some way, or some rhyme or reason, I'm able to speak with people and, and, and, and, you know, which is a lot of tour players are able to do that. Just most, most, if not, almost all don't really care to kind of Do that during a tournament week and I don't really care to do that much either But I just wind up talking to so many freaking people that you know, I think I think I'll also have a great chance outside that

Let's call it around roughly around 20 events that I'll play on my number that I'll have a good chance at getting quite a few sponsor exemptions as well. Will strip for sponsor exemptions. I think that should be your I mean that's that's been I was with I was with Joel earlier we did a we did a golf day deal out in Vegas and it was like well yeah no shit they should parod they should they should put you in the event they should pair us together. We will, I can guarantee, we will not do what we did this last year, but we will come up with something that is maybe equally entertaining. You're a leg of that story. The part that makes me laugh the most is you just including Joel being a good friend because you turned around and he's got to turn off.

Hell of a pain during the buff. He was a shit friend for set and everything up is to where, like, I felt enough fear of pressure to do it. He was also a shit friend for hitting it to 12 feet and then giving me a perfect line and leaving it just short because then I knew I was going to make the putt. Yeah, but yeah, good man. He is. I turned around and his was off in the full helicopter.

And that was like, okay, I can breathe now. And then beer can't start applying. And that's like, oh, shit, we gotta get out of here. What is, uh, so last time you're on was February, right? Four players, right? As things were kind of popping off and changing in the golf world. But it was, it was shortly after, you know, Phil was really blowing up at that time. And we didn't really, we still didn't know what was about to happen in an unfold, but I don't really know where to start with this. I guess just going from your perspective, you've been, you're on the player advisory council on the PGA tour. We talked a lot about how that works, you know,

back in that episode. I think it was the pay hill recap. What, what are, from where you're sitting, a, where, what are the changes that are, the, the, the changes that are happening to the PGA tour? What are your thoughts on them? How do you think it benefits a player like you? How does it hurt a player like you? And just, I'm, I'm interested in your perspective on, you know, I've heard some blowback of some, some of the middle tier guys saying, you know, this is only for the top guys. I just curious to your perspective on it. I mean, we can go into it. I mean, obviously this is something

that we could talk about for multiple hours. First thing, as it benefits someone like me, or not someone like me, me personally. Elevated events throughout the year. I'm gonna end up playing in probably a couple more that maybe I wouldn't have gotten into as I just described in previous years because of What events are elevated and when so guys are only there's a certain hour of many guys that you know have to be in it

There's 20 and there's gonna be even maybe a few more They're gonna play those they were I think it roughly winds up winds up with majors They're gonna play those 20 events and then they're gonna be done. So all those other ones are circled for me like Either defonates or I'm gonna have a great chance to be in those events. Again, changes being made when they were made in the year that I had last year and now the status that I have this year, that is going to benefit me a lot more than it's going to hurt me. Someone like me who's, you know, my first couple of years, I was, I think I finished like 55th and 65th, somewhere in there, right?

And then this last year, not so good. So I'm kind of right in the middle tier PGA tour player. It's gonna be great for seven years with this TV deal. Or every event, other than the elevated events, is either they're gonna stick where, you know, per-s-wise, stick where it is or, you know, slightly over the course of seven years grow. And that happens. And the growth of the other events will be aided by the revenue generated from the, what I think it's

13. Am I right in saying that? Whatever the, what I think it's 13 and I write and say in that, whatever the, what are 13 events being elevated and the product is good enough and people watch enough and people invest enough if we hit on those events that helps every single one of us. If we do not hit on those events, which I don't really see and I'm, this is now it's just now we're getting to my opinion, I don't really see a way in which we don't really see, and I'm, this is now, it's just now we're getting to my opinion. I don't really see a way in which we don't hit, at least hit enough. What's that mean? What do you mean?

When you say, if we hit, just says, basically those events need to generate a shit ton of revenue to offset the cost of pumping money into persons, pumping money into bonuses. If those events generate a ton of revenue, more than what we are putting into every pool with, you know, versus bonuses, all this stuff, all the money that is being shelled out, then we're cool, we're fine. We're gonna be just great. Every event is gonna continue to run.

We need to be, obviously, very careful with those that are not elevated this year may not be elevated. There's still, we're still unknown whether they rotate like and then the fall events. We got to, we got to do a really good job of kind of keeping those tournaments and tournament records and organizations and sponsors happy so that they keep wanting to, you know, basically pump money into the PGA tour. If those do not generate the revenue that they are expecting, I do not see a way in which after this TV deal runs out or I don't know the particulars,

but I know there's a stop point and we can kind of whether it be 20, 25, 26, if they're not generating the revenue and not, you know, the eyeballs on screens and the ad revenue and the like, what all that goes into that, I do not know. If they don't generate the revenue we think, or we're hoping, then there is no way that there is anything other than a 20 event PGA tour schedule, you know, starting probably the year 2031. And then the rest of the events kind of,

I would imagine, mix in with the European tour and Coincurri Tour and then there's just kind of some hybrid, you know, tour that's just underneath that, that feeds X amount of players into the big tour, you know, every year and whatever that number may be, who knows. And there's no way to know right now, or really probably even about the time when it maybe

comes to making the decision. Do we just go with one big, big tour, maybe, you know, big tour that has a few more worldly stops. And then the lesser tour that maybe combines and we funnel guys in, there's no way to know if that's the best thing for us in the 5, 10, 15, 20, 50 year, you know, long run, or if, oh shit, this was a mistake. We bet all of our money, we put all of our eggs into the big guys, and they were not able to generate what they thought we could. So now everybody within a professional golf landscape is going to suffer. We are going to continue to pay them what they feel is appropriate.

And I would agree that they are getting paid what is appropriate and are going to continue to get paid what is appropriate. I'm not saying that they're taking too much. But if these things don't generate the buzz that everything, then someone like me in the position that I'm in is going to suffer. And people that work their way onto the European tour, the corn-fray tour, and maybe the PGA tour that don't have the immediate or sustained success, they're all going to suffer. And that is scary. I mean, that's-

Yeah, but I understand why they why they have to happen, why the changes have to happen. But Phil said the tour is sitting on 800 billion dollars though, that's where the money's coming from, right? He just tweeted that again today, right? Yeah, and Tiger this morning said something about a loan. They I don't it's funny that they would have had to disclose that to me, but I did not remember hearing anything about that. Both of them were wrong. What are you guys doing? I mean, not in a way. I'm also, yeah, I cannot, but Tiger may not be wrong. And maybe they were some wrong phrasing. Whatever that is. Yeah, wrong. Getting into the reserves is what they did. Phil was a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one.

It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one.

It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one.

It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. It's a different one. Now we're dipping into those reserves, right? I mean, we dipped in this year to get some more bonus pool, more money, the TV contract that comes in Jan one and the money, you know, yearly is gonna help, but we are dipping into all of that. A real quick break here to do a house ad NBC style,

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And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen.

And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen.

And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. And then we'll go to the top of the screen. TV deals. So, yeah, I'm not hurting. They say it's out loud, but it seems to me like they are in a way borrowing from the future years to I would expect the growth of person's year over year to slow a little bit in terms of or smooth be smoothed out a little bit more than maybe they were planning. They were planning for money to go up up up up as it came in through the TV deals increasing. Yes, yes. Okay. And then they just put it all up front, right? I mean, it was, they showed us, and that was my first year on tour, my first player meeting. They showed us, you know, that was 19.

They showed us kind of 20 growth, 20, 25 growth, 20, 30 growth, and it was much more incremental. Yeah, and obviously live in the like, fills dumb comments, just throw it all into, you know, starting next year, 2023, right? And so that puts us in, I'm not a businessman. I do not know how these things really work. I know, you know, kind of what Tor players think and when they get pissed off and when they don't. I think that puts us in an interesting and scary spot because again, we don't, we don't generate a shit ton of money, then it's just going to be the top guys playing the PGA

tour. That's my opinion of where things could end up being, which is everybody not be the worst thing in the world, who knows. But right now that sounds pretty shitty. That's going to piss off. I mean, 100 plus other PGA-torn members, 100 plus cornberry-torn members, 100 AM. We're now the strategic alliance with the European tour, probably roughly 100, closer to 200 plus European-torn members, right? And that doesn't even count the kids on developmental tours, the kids in college, if shit junior buffers now that are going to be playing with us. That's a big, big change. And I agree that something had to happen.

And we took a pretty big swing. But boy, man, if we miss things are going to be drastically, drastically different probably by 2030 and beyond. It seems from the little bit of research I've done this, the few people I've talked to that a worry about this change was support from the sponsors of the smaller events. But from what I've gathered, they seem to be on relatively strong footing and it's not always driven by the media value or the

fields of the events in some way. It's there to provide hospitality for clients. They're there to entertain people. They're there to blah, blah, blah. Everyone sponsors a tournament for different reasons and make impacts on their community. And a lot of those events are in a smaller market, a smaller community, right?

They're, that's probably focus number one. And then it comes to obviously entertaining clients and putting on a show. And but I think a lot of them, you know, bullet point one would be to kind of impact the community. And obviously sponsoring a BDT4 event with the track record that we have on impacting communities, which I put up against any other organization

and all of them fail compared to us. You know, that's a big deal. That's your sponsor tour event that, you know, we can really help an impact your, your local community. And so that's that, I guess a, a critique of the new structure has been, well, what are these guys? They're all going to leave. They're not going to want to sponsor these events anymore. And I, I would say like, you don't really get a strong field already if you're a lower tier event. And I just don't, it's not, it's not as cut and dry as that really.

And I don't think there's going to be a problem. And yeah. And I don't I've spoken to a few tournament directors or tournament host organizations, but I've gotten to know over the course of the last couple years. And I wouldn't say that they're thrilled. They're obviously not thrilled and I would say that they're being promised from the suits at the tour that things are going to basically be okay. We may rotate these events in every, you know, some odd years, you'll have the big bang

and it'll be great, but other than that, we're just going to kind of like help you along to survive and that obviously help you along to to survive really, really, you know, hangs on. What are these big events? Really matter whether people really care about them. So a lot of uncertainty, a lot of kind of people on the edge of their seat waiting to see what happens. And it's going, it's not going to be an immediate thing that you can then assess. And then, you know, right, that's the tough part about our business,

that it's going to take a few years to see if this shit works, and to see if these people are happy. And I would imagine, again, just strictly opinion, just based on what I've heard, and like, I would imagine in two to three years, pending what decisions are made about where these elevated events go that some sponsors will drop and they will not sponsor a PGA tour event. And then it goes to the suits at the tour. You got to turn around and sell that immediately because if those events the sponsors drop and the event goes away and we have a dry week, now you've pissed off 150 plus people that you are employed to, look, I mean, they're

employed to funnel money to us. That's it. That's all they're there to do. And now, with Tiger not being able to play, hardly at all, and a threat from another organization, they have to work over time to make sure that all of those things go smoothly. And if somebody drops, somebody steps right in, I mean, there's going to be a lot of things. There could be a lot of events that maybe not a lot,

but a few events that it may be sacrificed. And if they aren't able to fill those spots, then we've got big issues. Whereas, you know, a year later, then again, man, it would be nice to not have 47 events on the schedule, right? So I can play way too much golf and all this. But actually, after sitting in these rooms, like, now we need every bit of 47 events on the schedule to give people opportunity to play professional golf.

And it makes more sense under the newer model to like have it tiered in some way than have then trying to pretend like these 47 are like equal. That that's where it makes sense to me. I'm following I mean I agree at you know in terms of this is not a done thing. It's gonna work. It's not and then the top part about that is where somebody that won I don't, I'll use Tampa as an example. Tampa usually gets a very, very strong field. Maybe not a lot of big names, but it's a very, very strong field. Yeah. Versus somebody that wins, unfortunately, John Deere is always the crux of every joke.

Versus somebody that wins John Deere, you get the same amount of points. Right. I mean, you get the, maybe not the same amount of dollars, but then if it's not the same amount of dollar for it's a rounding error in terms of the difference. I'm totally cool. If Tampa, let's say, is a great event, it's gonna be elevated in X amount of years, whatever it's probably not,

but if those elevated, they want, you know, five, 50, 600 points versus 500 for the win, that's fine. But if it bears out over the course of two to three years of seeing that, and one of the things that is happening is that because elevated events are elevated in points, and the others are not, that it is keeping, it's not gonna keep many, but it is keeping three, four, five, 10 guys that are just crushing it

in the not so elevated events. If it's keeping them from getting into that, the big circle, the big tour, where they elevate events on that stuff, that is a huge problem, a huge, huge problem. Because there are people, I mean, it could be me. Again, I just said how much I struggled with this. Could you imagine if I was like the fifth ranked player in the world, and I'm winning a shit ton of events every year, and I'm mixing it up with the big boys, and you know, you get me looking the way I do

versus Rory walking down 18, and like, there's gonna be, I mean, that's going to be musty TV, that's going to be, like I'm not trying to sound like an arrogant asshole and saying this, but like, that's, people are gonna watch, and people are gonna be polarized to to pull for the everyday looking guy versus, you know, Rory and no disrespect to Rory. And I'm not at a current state where I'm going to really be, you know, hunting them down a ton. I would love to. But we're

probably not going to be playing the same event. So you miss out on other stories. And we have done in the past, put all of our eggs into the stories of the top guys, WGCs and the like, and it didn't really take. So if we can do a good job in highlighting the elevated events and highlighting the best players in our game and telling their story, and if people don't want to hear their fucking story,

they just, they get tuned off by watching Rory make another, you know, four million dollars, we are in trouble. We are in big, big trouble. I, again, it's, my opinion is I think this is the right way to go and I think it is going to work. But if it doesn't, we are in a huge, huge, huge problem area. If it doesn't, we are in a huge, huge, huge problem area. And that's where I personally struggle to even explain out loud why I didn't like WGC's and why I do like the new format.

I don't know if I have the answer to it. It just feels like it's gonna work. I don't know if it is, but it feels better. And I always come back this and you've probably heard me say this if you listen to the show. Like the status quo is not the next option. It's out the window. Like it's gone. There was something had to change and I don't, it's way, I don't have like a better alternative

than what has been currently proposed. And from what I gathered at least freshly after the meeting in August was that in the lower tier events, whatever you want to call him, I'm guessing they're going to come up with something better than that. You have a way of almost like qualifying your way into the elevated events. Like every single week, there's opportunities of five, six, eight, 10 spots. How I don't know how many, but that is a, that's a key key element of this is that it's not a closed-off system and you can play your way into it

And that is like yeah, well shit That's like and a whole different reason to watch the lower tier is instead of just who wins it like a top 10 change that gets you in the next event That's interesting Harry Harry can go play for 20 million the next week, right exactly and that's where we We didn't you know our last pack meeting and, and it's a yearly thing, right? So Jan won, and I'm not even sure that I can be voted on as a non- not fully exempt member. I could be wrong. But, you know, the next PAC,

it's probably gonna be floated to them, right? And the way the PAC, you know, they float the idea, we discuss and discuss and discuss, and then it goes to the board with our representatives and then the towards representatives, and they, you know, the board kind of speaks on the pack to half as the pack speaks on the entire memberships to half. That is why it is so, so important to get these field sizes right. I will worry a lot more that

we will have a 20 event PGA tour, big tour, you big tour schedule in five to seven years if they limit these field sizes. It has to be close to 100, it just has to be, at least in my mind. And if it's somewhere around 60, 70, 78, I really worry because there's just not enough stories, right? I mean, it's like, all right, there's just not enough stories, right? I mean, it's like, all right. And there's a lot of people in this world that wants to turn their television on

and watch Rory McAwery win a golf tournament. I get that. And that's, he has been compensated lavishly because of that. And he has worked his ass off to be in that position in a lot of different respects, both on and off the golf course. And I revere him for

that. But that shit's going to get really old watching that five six seven years in a row like if you can't integrate the story where it might be somebody that's ranked ninth going toe-to-toe with him. That is going to be a little bit more polarizing at least in my opinion than it is the constant Rory verse, Justin Thomas. Let's see, let's see, let's see who wins. Let's see who can drive it in the fairway one more time and hold one more 15 footer, right? Okay. All right. It was Rory that week. Okay. It was Jordan that week. All right. It was John Romney this week. All right. Oh, look, it was Shane Lowley. Okay. That's, that's kind of cool. He's, he's, okay. He's got a little bit of personality, but then Shane goes and finishes fourth the next

three weeks and no one hears from him. But like, it should be highlighted how great his, you know, five week stretch was. And it, it falls on again, another that the suits have got to work, both, both our broadcast partners and the PGA tour suits. They don't do a good and I know one of them does anywhere near a good enough job to put confidence in my mind about telling these stories often enough, the right stories often enough and in a way in which we'll continue to generate revenue. I think the tour is doing a better job. I think our broadcast partners do an absolute shit job of doing it. I know that you guys go on and talk about commercials

and all this stuff and sure commercials are necessary. And I want to be kind in the way that I say this because I have played on tour for now. This is my fourth year. I see the amount of work that goes into showing us play golf and it is ridiculous and I really, really appreciate all the work that they all go through to do that. But at the end of the day, they do a shit, shit job of telling the story of what's going on. So if we've got a 15 event elevated schedule

and then the other ones are the lesser ones lesser are not elevated, but if you play good golf in those you can get into the elevated ones, that's awesome, right? That's something that I'm sure you would watch. I'm sure almost every listener would love to watch and follow along, but make it too fucking hard to follow along. I don't trust them to tell the story the way that it should be. I cannot wait to watch,

I hope I'm not playing in it. I cannot wait to watch Q-School next year to just see the difference in the top five guys, the top five finishers get to the PGA tour. That adds a zero to every check that they make for the next year. It's a fucking zero, it adds a zero. And I don't trust any of them to portray to me in the appropriate way to captivate me to stay and watch for

four days. I also don't trust them to tell the story the way that it should be. And I think they have a lot of great people that can. They just don't do it or maybe they don't have enough time. I don't. The structure. It's all structure. I don't. Yeah. I don't know how I don't know how these I don't know how this shit works. You don't have contracts. We're a better job. The contracts don't say in there. Do shitty job telling stories.

Do a better job. But that's where, you know, when you have 18 minutes of commercial and then you just get squeezed and every minute you don't spend covering live golf at that point, just becomes, you know, I think they're getting better at cutting out a lot of fluff, but it's still it's structurally a problem. And I don't know why there's two sports. I watched a whole soccer game today that didn't have any commercial interruptions. And I watched a Formula One races that don't have them. I don't know how they make it work.

And golf just throws their hands up and say, we can't possibly, can't possibly even consider not making it work and golf just throws their hands up and say we can't possibly, can't possibly even consider not making it work. And here we go. We're on, you know, a seven year new TV deal. So I'm not going to read the contract and I don't know how to read it anyway. But I just challenge them all to do a better job telling the main stories that are easy, but also the ones that aren't. Tell the stories that are not easy to tell. Tell, I've just given you, if I win Sony, I have just given, whomever it is, every bit of what the story that you should tell in the first 20 minutes of this podcast, if I win Sony.

The first 20 minutes, you listen, you take some notes, you tell this story and you tell it over and over and over and over and over. I hate to harp on them because I know how hard the people work. They have a lot of really, really great talented people. They have storytellers. I do believe that they do have them. They employ them. But whether or not they hold them back, I don't know. That's, that's one thing. I'll say it's hard sometimes when some guys win on the tour, we're kind of like, I don't know. Yeah, he seems like a great dude. Don't know anything about him. I'm like, I kind of invested in like these 150 guys. What I it's just, it's a challenge of the structure. It's hard. It's harder than any other sport, but just because it's hard

doesn't mean we can't be good at it. I think some of these networks getting just a little bit younger with some of the talent they're bringing in. Not again, not to say that the older guys need to be run out in any way. It's just the connection with the players. It wanes over the years, right? Yeah. Well, and it's like, I mean, I didn't particularly care to turn my TV on and listen to Nick Fowl though. I don't really know him that well.

I'm sure he's a decent guy. I didn't particularly care. The reason why I didn't particularly care is, I never saw the man. Yeah. Like he's there Wednesday to Sunday. Just come out on the driving range. Now, whether people talk to you or not, who knows?

But just hear the ground, listen to what's going on, right? Trevor Imelman is taking his place. I see the man everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere. I think he's gonna do a great job. Colt, obviously, he's easy. see the man everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere. I think he's going to do a great job. Colt, obviously, he's easy.

Colt is everywhere. And Colt has the relationship with a lot of the current top level guys. And even some of the not so top level guys, he has a relationship with him. It's going to be easy for him to tell a story. Now, when it comes to not cutting time, the story needs to be told, everybody needs to stop talking and let cult talk

because he's the one that has the story. Just, just stop. Just stop talking. We're gonna listen to Colt for an hour for the end because Harry is about to win and Colt knows him really well, right? Or whoever never, maybe. Yeah.

Or, you know, Imelman just any, any time, one of those presidents, cup guys from the international team is about to win this next year. Inelman should be the only one talking for an hour because he has all the details. He's spent a week with those got well a week is he spent two years cultivating relationships with those guys and then a very very spirited week with him. He knows those guys. Everybody stop talking less listen to Trevor. We're taking up quite a bit of your time. And I, I don't know if, if you've

thought about this or if this is a good question to direct at you, but I, I, I would rather ask, you know, you than any of the idiots I have to talk to in a week to be basis or hear myself explain what I think as well. But what is reconciliation with live look like for the PGA tour? I, I feel like I've heard Roy refer to it before that, you know, before it can start, Norman's gotta go. Tiger said, Norman's gotta go. I keep hearing this, Rory said, people should come to a table

and I struggle to picture what this looks like. I don't know if it means isolating a part of the schedule. What do you think? Joe and I, we were in Vegas, we sat and had dinner after a pairings party for the golf that we did and we sat with I won't name a motto I'm sure you won't really mind being named but he's a the representative of a

top level player So we sat and we had two cocktails and talked about this for 90 minutes and The top level player representative had a fucking great idea I wish we would have done before. We can't do it now unless the lawsuits are dropped. And it seems like a lot of people do not like regnormons. So it seems like a lot of people will sit down once he leaves. I think it's pretty simple. We let them play, but we create, and this was not my idea. This was the top level representatives. We let them play, but you left took a shit ton of money, so we're going to change

your membership requirements. I.E. We will make you play, we'll make everybody else, maybe maybe we stick with 15, maybe it's a little less. We'll use everybody that didn't leave for live, you get 15. You guys that left, you got to do 18. If you want to come back and play the PGA tour, you got to do 18. And we will let you pick 12 of them. We're going to tell you where you have to play the other six times. And we may be able to, apparently, if Norman's not there, we'll work around your live schedule and maybe your live contract, whatever it may be. But you got to give us three more than everybody else. And we get to tell you where the other six are. I think that's a home run and I think that also pokes a hole in all these guys saying, well, we would love, you know, well, saying we want to play less and then suing us in bitching in moment that

they want to come back. That that that's all right, man, cool. And the only one that would sign up for that probably is Patrick Reed, because in the end plays so much like none of those guys are going gonna be like all right cool. I'm out I'm done. I'll just stay with live over here and the the problem with that idea with the current crop of guys that have left other than maybe Patrick read Cameron Smith maybe some of those guys would be willing to do it Cameron probably probably wouldn't. That's obviously 30 plus times however many live events there are. That's 30 plus times of playing and they're just not

going to do that. But I think that's a great way once the lawsuits hopefully are dropped or hopefully awarded in our favor. That's a great way to tackle this if live is going to exist in the future. All right. If a young kid, if you want to go and play live and they're going to give you 20 million

to be there, that's fine, man. More power to you. We're not going to give you 20 million. If you've earned the PGA tour status, your requirement has now changed. This might be an extreme example, but the requirement is that you have to play three more times than everybody else, and we are going to direct six of your starts to somewhere else. And maybe it's not that. Maybe it's, you know, hey, you can go and then we'll let you play five events. Maybe it's 10 or maybe the numbers less, you know, for live, picking the other five. So we're directing

everybody to probably then not so elevated events. And then you've got to give us 10 corporate days or whatever it is, right? Make it difficult on those guys leaving. If they want to come back, you just, you make it difficult. You can't do that right now because I think that would probably prove the collusion or the antitrust for their side. But if those lawsuits go away and we sit down and we're cordial, I think that's the way you, I think that's the route you go. You make it really, really difficult on them to want to leave and then play both tours, right? If you're going to play both, you've got to go 30 plus times and we are going to tell you where to go.

I think that makes the most sense. I kind of wish that we had had the kind of dinner and the chat at the bar of the, that kind of wish we had that about two years previous, or maybe somebody listened to what this gentleman had to say because I thought that was a great idea. I understand that that probably may not have been possible, but that would have been the kind of proactive thing to do and it might not have been possible because it might have alerted the antitrust bell or whatever. Again, I'm not a lawyer, I don't know. It might have, you know, made our case harder to win. Who knows, but not my original idea, but shit, I thought it was a great one. I think that's where you start. And if it's not make them play more tournaments and make them not be able to pick what tournaments they are. They have to be punished in a way, right? They have to be, if we want to sit down and we want to include these guys back into PGA TORGAL, if you have to find a way to punish them,

but punish them in a way that it benefits the PGA TOR membership, which, you know, would be, and one of those ways would be to force them into certain events, force them and force them all to go play the John Deere, whatever it may be, right? I'm, something like that. I'm wondering out loud if that's a, if that's a win for the PGA tour, though, even like it still seems to me, live needs the PGA tour way more than PGA tour needs to live. Sure.

They've lost a couple guys that I'm sure they'd love to have back, but I just don't, I don't, I wonder, you know, what, what adding DJ and Cam Smith back to your fields really does. Is it? Yeah. I mean, that's, I, and does that also encourage what you just was, what was proposed there? Does that encourage Cantlay and Xander to want to do, but like maybe they, does that encourage more people to leave for live? I don't know, you know, I I guess yeah, that's it. I guess it could you know and like My my example is extreme and my example that what I just kind of makes it so probably it makes it It makes it it was not something that you could probably do now It was something that you could have done before right?

Like hey if you leave for a different league This is what we're gonna let you go, we'll let you come back. This is what we require you to do. And I understand why they didn't do it, right? Because you can't just let your talent leave and you've got to protect, you got to protect your house. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I know just respect to any of the live guys that left, but like who gives a shit? I mean, DJ and Cam Smith would be nice to have. I'd Bryson and Brooks and Patrick Reed, right? I know, but they took kind of the villains from us. Those are beneficial to every field. Obviously not just because they're in theory villains, they're also really, really good golfers. But I still, I totally agree. I don't think that we need them as much as they need us. And like, who can I call those are the names we lost at.

I don't really think, I think the armor is not broken, not denied. I think they just took like a sleeve of the armor off by the guys that left. Like, all right, now you can shoot a bone arrow through my arm, but I'll live, right? Like, it's not that big a deal. You can regrow it.

But the arm can grow back. Yeah, you somehow we can regrow. You know, flip side, we've talked some, and even at the dinner we had where we were talking, it was like, man, okay, well, if I was in charge of live, what I could do, and I know it's probably not what they're going to do, because they're very, you know, 48 guys, 54 holes, I just double the field size, and I'd let all these other guys that aren't going to be included in the

elevated events. I'll give each of you a million bucks to go play and then bye bye PJ tour. I mean, it's where, you know, we put ourselves in a vulnerable position that I think we were going to prevail from, but there's a thing in which we don't too. And that's both scary and also like exhilarating. You have to play by real rules. You have to play by real business models. Like you don't have, yeah, yeah, that's where it's like, that's where it's, like, if you do lose and the pediatric falls apart, it's kind of inevitable. It is kind of written in the stars in terms of, uh,

the mistakes made along the way that could have been prevented, you know, whatever. But dude, it's just, it's a, it's kind of amazing that it's held together even like it has because it could, a few players away from the, the damn really, really breaking, I think and I think so. And I'm thankful to those gentlemen that, that we're going to now compensate lavishly that they did not leave because that leaves me a place to play, a place to earn a living, a place to achieve my goals and dreams. So I am eternally thankful for them and will continue to be the longer they stay here and I hope they stay here forever.

But, you know, there are holes in the dam. We're gonna wait and see. A lot of this is waiting to see how this shit goes. See if we can generate enough revenue, see what they're done over there, see about the lawsuit, see, you know, whatever it may be. So in a world-wind answer, there's no telling what compromise would be like. And I don't want to compromise with them.

I don't understand why Tiger and Rory are saying that. I don't, and they obviously have access to a few more high level information, tidbits than I do, but not that many. I like fuck those guys. No, we are not compromising. We are going to make our house, we're gonna build our house,

we're gonna build our house strong and big and lavish and it's gonna be awesome and we're gonna highlight all the top talent and we're gonna hopefully tell the stories of the not so top talent when they get into the mix. Like, that is the model Let's stop worrying about people leaving and trying to tear the house down like let's just take care of our own and Do the best we can for our members and our sponsors and our tournaments and

Fuck those guys man like I get why they left like I I still have a ton of, not maybe not a ton of them, but quite a few of them are still good friends of mine. And we talk a lot. And I fucking love them. Right. They're, they're my brothers. But who cares what they do, man? Let's stop caring about what they do. Let's just make our shit the best. Let's, let's, we can't get into a spending war. Let's stop doing that shit. Let's just make our house bigger and better than theirs. Let's just say, yeah, the reconciliation talk makes sense if you are still really fearing a lot of the dudes being in the room in Delaware if you're still fearing them leaving. That's the only thing that maybe they are, but it just doesn't seem like that. Maybe that's the little bit of info that they know.

That could be that there are five or six of those guys that are on the fence and they're thinking. It would be surprised if that was the case. I would. Now that I haven't been surprised throughout this whole thing anyway, but that would be pretty shocking to me, I think. So if that's the case, then there's not the one or two of those guys on the fence, and maybe they're, but they may still stay, stop worrying about those guys, man. Let Greg Norman run it into the ground, let the Saudi spend billions and billions and billions of dollars,

and then wake up five years from now and be like, what? We're spent all this and didn't do any of the revenue generating and none of these teams are sold. Like, yeah, we need to stop worrying about them. We need to make our product as good as it possibly can be. And we're taking a lot of the right steps and doing so. And I hope we continue to make it better and better and better. But we are in a holding pattern. We're in a way to see. Will people even care that our product is better? I mean, well, they do a good enough job over there that like, oh, wow, they're going to.

All right, well, maybe I can watch either one of them, right? Who knows? But we'll see. I'm excited to find out more about them. Yeah. I am am too. It's it's obviously at an extremely, extremely entertaining and riveting time to be a part of this landscape in a very, very small degree, but as a professional golfer on the PGA tour, I mean, it is,

it's awesome. I mean, it's, it is wildly entertaining, almost day in and day out, I mean, it's, it is wildly entertaining, almost day in and day out, that, that we don't have to sacrifice any further for kind of the greater good of professional golf. And then golf as well, but, you know, most of us professional golfers really don't care about the general game of golf. I would say I do to some degree, but I just want to keep playing golf or money and achieving my goals and my dreams and golf kind of suffers along the way. I think most of us would say, that's a bummer. So, yeah, stop looking at the PGA Tour of Professionals to like grow the game and do good things.

We're just trying to achieve. That's the live golfers are for. That's what they're doing over there. Yeah could grow the game. I mean, if they, if they want to sign me, it's going to cost them a pretty penny, but I'll grow the game for it. Not the guys that you sent over there. No. Well, I do wonder what the Netflix thing is going to do for, you know, what you're talking about in terms of delivering the eyeballs and the interest. If, if, you know, I, again, I don't, if you don't fix a television product, I don't think you're going to retain a lot of people. But I'm curious if it, if

it drives an interest, you know, it did with Formula One, but Formula One, I think had a way better house in order and was ready to entertain new people and made it easy to digest. And I think golf is a way different struggle. And I don't know if it's going to happen. It's going to, yeah. I could see a way in which it helps them more than it helps us. I was one of the side. I think it helps. I think it helps both.

But I could see it helping them a bit more than it does us. But the gentleman that left that were featured don't have great reputations. They're winners, they're, they've achieved great things in this game, but they don't have the best reputations. They may not be the easiest people to turn on and they're not maybe not that fascinating when you turn the television on and you watch Brooks, Brooks, Kefka sitting around her rent home, he's, he's breakfast. I could be wrong. Maybe he puts on a different face. And he does a better job of kind of acting. And if he does, it's going to help them more

than it's going to help us. But I don't think they're that good at the entertaining part of everything. I think over the course of the last few years, people have seen that, yeah, it just, it doesn't, it doesn't, really, that cool. I don't really care what they're doing. Let's, let's get this episode, right? I mean, who cares? It's gonna just, that's my hope. Well, we'll wait and see what it's like. It's gonna be, I mean, shit, it's gonna be must-see TV.

It should, I think, come out the week after the Super Bowl. So I'm sure I cannot, I know what, so that's Phoenix and then, we could rib. But hopefully I play my way into rib just so I can be on the grounds and hear what, because we all have watched it by probably when everybody tees off on Thursday. It's not earlier. I'm assuming people are just gonna fly through it, yeah.

Oh my God, yeah, seeing here all the stuff that's going on that will be that will be wildly entertaining. All right. We're going to let you go, man. We're going to we're going to maybe have you back a little more frequently instead of doing these mega episodes because we greatly appreciate your very candid perspective on everything and it it beats it. Text me whenever we're saying stuff on the pod that doesn't make any sense you or we got all wrong just just keep it keep it keep it Okay, you guys do you guys do a very good job. I don't I Will I will and you know you were part of the reason for the kind of recent turnaround the call outs the shout outs like I Kind of listen to the first bit. I was like, oh shit. I hope it's not talking about me

And then I listen to the next one going oh oh, fuck, he was talking about me. All right, I gotta continue to get better. We always say we have tons of time when we do and I don't, I like doing nothing and with my tons of time off, but I really enjoy sharing the time with you guys. I've been a really big fan of Tron and Randy's throughout the whole chew.

I gotta get on there and just talk about some of that. Oh, God, yeah, hell yeah. They started going on like airports and then that pet peeves and all. Man, I got it. I got to get on there. I will for one of their chop sessions. Man, there's as much as I've been traveling, we've been turning those on. It's been wildly entertaining. I will shoot my brother in the back and forth about what they're saying, what they're talking about. It's been a lot of fun. I'll shoot them. I'll say yeah, don't listen to this podcast so they'll never hear that All right brother, well, thanks for the time and we'll chat soon cheers. You got it. Happy holiday. See you It's gonna be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different.