No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 634: Jon Rahm

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Fresh off his win at the Tournament of Champions, Jon Rahm makes his third appearance on the pod to break down his victory in Maui, the new PGA Tour events structure, the role of the players in making tour policy decisions, the OWGR, LIV, the upcoming Ryder Cup and a ton more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sully here got a really fun interview coming here shortly with John Rom. John's the best, man. He was ready to roll.

He was prepared. He did his homework. He was fired up. I should have even more prepared for this interview because I feel like I could have asked him anything I wanted to and he would have given you a great, great opinion on it. So I'm excited how excited he is to talk about golf and everything going on in the golf world. So we recorded this last Friday, January 13th.

Some info already dated in there. We talk a little world ranking stuff for how he hasn't passed Katelyn. Now has passed him as of this week. Who knows he could get passed again by the end of the week, but just throwing that out there for a listener's sake. When we say last week, we are talking about the century tournament champions, not the Sony open in Hawaii.

This episode is brought to you by our friends at rowback. They're back for another year. We're stoked about it. You guys must be buying a lot of their stuff because they are stoked to work with us. There's excited to work with us as we are with them, which is, which is saying a lot because we absolutely love their gear.

Their performance polos, they fit way better than typical boxy polos. The color never loses its shape. The four-way stretch material is soft. It's comfortable. You can wear them on the golf course, not on the golf course. It's a common theme with all of their stuff

because they're performance Q-zips. They're pretty much the only Q-zips we wear these days. The definition of versatile, if you see the social media clip around this, I've got one on and we have that one as well in our shop store.nowingup.com. They got their perfect for a crisp morning on the golf course, the perfect for lounging around the house. They look great. If we're dressier occasions, I cannot say enough about how versatile the performance Q-zips are. And lastly, the hoodies, they're legitimately the most comfortable hoodies we've worn. You can wear them on the golf course, you can wear them off, they're soft, they're stretchy.

You can wear them four days in a row and they won't smell. They're just really, really quality material. I don't think I really fully understood how good a hoodie could be until, until rowback started sending us some stuff. So we're stoked to work with them. You can use code NLU at roback.com for a generous 20% off your first order RHO BACK.com, 20% off polo's, QZips, hoodies, T's, shorts, joggers, they got it all code NLU kick off your 2023 right with roback.com.

Here's John Robb. Well, I see this now. We're doing this on video. You might need to be adding some a little bit of shelf space in your office for these trophies that you're starting to rack up. Do you have a tradition yet for winning? Because it seems to be happening quite a bit. Oh, you got some space in there. This room, this room. So I wouldn't say there's any traditions. I think everybody expects, oh, we went out and partied all night and pretty much ever since we,

my win at Tori is more like, I end up so tired. I'm not the biggest drinker, someone just said me a bit. Let's have room service and go to sleep. That's how my tradition is without. This time in Maui, we got back and we have the kids. We went to the pool, obviously did have a mic tie in the pool, but besides that, nothing special.

Well, it's interesting. I don't think dad life would promote a ton of partying, right? But it's I just curious as to how you you know process success, right? I'm sure you want to celebrate the wins, but then professional golf is just always on to the next one, right? You're working out today. You're pride, Praksin while you're at home. I mean, how do you how do you not get too high after a win? I guess is that something you've had to learn? Well, we're doing this on a Friday. We're already halfway through the second day of another tournament. So you can't really, in two days, there'll be the next winner,

it's another story. So it's just a life of a professional golfer. I mean, get that win. It was a little bit different to the wins I've had in the past. So I guess the process in was a little bit different. But my thought had in the past. So I guess the process was a little bit different, but my thought, once we have the kids, we get home, we have to five hour fly back. So we have plenty of time to think there.

And then the thing is, we get home well. Let's try to make it two in a row in Palm Springs, and then three in a row if that's done in the Tories. I mean, that's basically my mind with that. You can't keep on going. I mean, I've had the mind with that. And keep on going. I mean, I've had the luxury of seeing people start the year amazingly by winning at Sony and having, sorry, at Century and having an incredible year after that.

And I was mid being the last one last year. So my goal is that. Hopefully this is the start of a multiple win year. What is it like for professional golfers to play that golf course at Kapalua? I'm fascinated by it. It's really fun for me to watch. It's just there. It's, it's, you're not hitting stock golf shots. It's what I love. You got to learn to use the slopes. You got to learn to, there's just all kinds of mind tricks. I've, I say, at least by one type, see it on those greens and stuff.

But what's it like competing on that golf course on a mountain golf course? I'll tell you right now, I'm going to show you something not that I'm promoting your podcast, but I was getting ready just so you know, I'm like, in case of something I wanna address on this on our podcast, I'm gonna actually listen to what they have to say. And it's interesting to have people that you guys play it,

because all you see is a 20-some under, that's all you see, right? So everybody assumes it's an easy golf course and it can't be tough. Like I understand you see, you know, bogies as a big mistake over there, but they can happen. Right. I think I've made more bogies this tournament than ever I ever did in, you know, in a whole week there. And I still ended up winning, right. So it happens very, very easily. The number one under state of thing

and what they golf course is, I don't think you have one flat tee box to be playing on. So for example, for people that have a minder, three, four, five, 10, 13, 14, 15, and 16, and nine, you have a tee box that is an african uphill, but all above your feet with left to right wind for the most part into the wind, right? Most of the time. You don't practice that. That's why sometimes you see a 60-yard railway in the ball is going sideways.

It happened to me last year twice on board because you just not used to hitting a T-shout on an uphill. Like those sort of things you're not considering, right? Like that's why you'll see a lot of times. You see me in a couple shots. I mean, so far left to make sure that I'm giving room for that bolt of faith. It's something you're not used to seeing. And then on the fur ways, again, same answer.

The only chance you have of having a flat lie is if you live it on top of this lopum one and on nine, if you get it just before it gets a little bit down Is the only time really you're gonna have a flat lie every other lie on the golf course It's gonna have some type of downslope sides look going on or upslope and that's what makes it really really really tricky, right? It's you can shoot low But you still have to make really good joints and it's this one makes it really fun and have the characteristics it has to be the tournament it is. And I think being a small field makes it even better.

Now with that said, if we didn't have to get into a couple minivans and a couple golf car rides, I don't think anybody would go and play that golf course because it is a leg breaker. We don't, we don't walk the entire back nine though, but that front nine, if you have to walk from five to six and eight T to eight green, our pace of play will be six hours because it just takes forever to get there. That's one thing too. Everything you just described about the course is still fair. It's still a test of skill, right?

I mean, how do you, you know, how do you adjust off a T box? It has a different slope to it. How do you adjust to a ball above your feet below your feet? It's hard to practice it, but it's you know, it I've got I got used to playing a ton of Florida golf and when I got out there playing I was like, oh man, I'm exposed like I just I'm not ready for this right so The cool part of it is on that back nine from 10 to 14 Right, you're really in the open. There's no really any trees blocking you

So that wind is out there. Luckily you have the room to start the ball wherever you want But that wind is really whipping and you can you have it. The tee shots are not the hardest. You can use the wind on your advantage, but those shots into the grain is not the easiest to fly the shot from 120 yards with an uphill eye into the wind of the left. It's not these, you still need to do it well. Luckily you have so many chances and a lot of those holes are downhill that you will see a lot of birdies, but it's not like I don't want to over exaggerate how difficult it can be because obviously we all should low, but if they ever decided to narrow the far west to 35 yards, 35, which still it would be an incredible test of golf. Well, that's the thing. The scores are low because there's not even one meaty par four. There is a ballbuster.

It's almost a ton of wedges. Even 17 is 560, but you're not hitting it. I hit a pitch and wedged on something. Exactly. Exactly. But that's just why the score is added. Five is a par four, basically, too. So, I guess.

So this was the only year I feel like it's played that short. In the past, there's no role in the fur ways. So, you are hitting five irons into that grain. This year it was odd, because you could go, if you're a stand on that teeth and you're looking at the bunker, you're looking at 60 yards further, at least for me, with my faith that I can hit and you still cover it into fur away. I mean, it was incredible this year and then you got the release. I had a nine iron into the grain twice, which I've never had.

Inter past I remember hitting four I into the way below your feet, crab right, crab short. I think five because it was downwind this year to it played as easy as I've ever seen it. But if it's ever soft again and the wind is a little bit in, like it's been in the past, where it makes six drivable, God, that would be a tough part four if. If you hit in five irons into that grain, I use best players in the world. Come on, you can handle a tough part for.

Well, I mean, if you've been tired of seeing 20 some under, yeah, I mean, I don't think it really makes a difference. It's a four or five to five. It doesn't matter at the end of the day. It's already an Eagle stat says the only thing that makes a difference on. It's a mindset thing, though. I mean, guys, if you could, you know, if you had a 300 yard par three, you guys would, you guys would lose your mind. See, if it's a 300 yard par four, it'd be one of the best holes on the golf course. These, at least, that's the sentiment I feel like I've seen in the past. Yeah. That's a fair assumption, yeah.

Is that a change a little bit? If you have an up and down for birdie or playing a par three, you just can't hit the green man. I get it. Yeah. So, all right. a lot to talk to you about. First thing I want to ask is, I want to hear your thoughts on Rory not being at the first designated event in the year. It's within your guy's agreement that everyone will skip one designated event.

I was surprised to see that he chose to skip the early one just because of the perception of that, but I'm curious what your reaction is to that. I'm not surprised at all. I mean, he doesn't have a history of playing a tournament, I think he's played at once. So I understand, after hearing your guys' podcast and a couple of other people mentioning it, I understand because he's taking a set-of-roll of pushing the game forward and being so outspoken about it, I understand why some people would expect them to be at the first one, especially being a limited field event and knowing that if he shows up with a C game, a top 10 is a very large possibility. I think it would be a good way to start the year, but at the same time, he also, he's

been going to Dubai and I would have to play those events for 10 plus years. So I'm not surprised he wasn't there. I, in the other hand, have never gone to the Middle East and played those Dubai and I would have to play those events for 10 plus years. So I'm not surprised he wasn't there. I, in the other hand, have never gone to the Middle East and play those events. And I love, I absolutely love that week is one of my favorite weeks all year. So he has kind of set on now having to play on the other ones, which I guess for marketing reasons is great. Yeah. What is the discussion been like as far as, you know,

deciding on these designated events and how guys were either going to play all of them are now getting to skip one and take us to kind of, you know, an understanding too of how that works for 2023 versus how that may work for 2024 in the future of that. So I mean, listen, even as a player to some of us are involved, we don't know what the capabilities are, right? We don't know what the contracts or the PGA tours say, because they have 47 tournaments.

So that's 47 different contracts and contracts with the FedExCop. They're limited on what they can do to a certain extent, right? You can't just blow up the entire tour because that changes the TV contract, changes the FedExCop contract, right? Changes everything. So it would be a lot of incredible amount of work

to do to change it right away. Now with that said, I was outspoken at the tour championship when we were required to play all those events and required to play all those things because they were truly independent contractors. We should have the freedom to play whatever we want. So I think a lot of us were okay to give up some flexibility in a schedule with a give or take, right? And that's why I voiced it at the tour championship. And I think that's why they said, okay, you can miss one.

And then you have the whole to the discretion of the commissioner, which that to me is a bit of a slippery slope to go down on. But it's, I think it's fair because, you know, you have people that have one tournaments that in certain part of the year. Like if you won Colonial, like Sam Burns, right, you have PGA Colonial Memorial. And then before that, you have a couple of the big events. Like you would end up going on five week in a row stretch. Whoever won, you told him, hold you in 180 and T, right? If I'm correct, that would be playing quite a few big events in the row as well.

Right. So now you get an into people having to choose between defending the big events, not big events in the row as well. So now you get an into people having to choose we can defend in the big events, not big events, sponsor commitments as well. So that flexibility in my mind should be there at least this year to allow players to play what they want, because I think like you should respectfully come and defend the tournament, right,

of your champion. So that's where I think it all came out of, especially in me, it's obviously being European and playing European tour. If I ever want to change the schedule and go play in Europe or whatever reason, having the flexibility is nice. Yeah, especially, and I guess it does 2023 being a Ryder Cup year effect any of that as well with a number of starts that you guys need to play in Europe. Maybe not for you in particular, but maybe other European players as well. Well, in my case, yeah, like this year after win worth, I didn't have to play until

Spanish Open. So I had a nice month off this time. You have the right to cup in between, right? So I'm not going to have the luxury. So it does, it does affect how we approach what's going on, right? Who knows? Hopefully, again, selfishly for me, because I'm not the few in this category, it will be amazing with this strategic alliance that PJ turned European tour. Have it be amazing to see some of those bigger events being in Europe and then counting for European tour events as well for us to not have to play as much. Right. I said, right now, if I want to keep my European tour status, I play all this 19 events

to August. And then when we're trying to come Spanish open to why's just I don't really have time off, right? So I think the whole point for all of us is we would like to have the chance to to have time off in the fall. You can choose to play some events or not, but we would like to have the option to possibly take two, three months off. That's what we would like, I think. And for whatever reason, in my case, because it would be nice to wake up one for a couple of weeks at home and not have to be grinding and spend time with my kids. They'll be very, very special. I think also it would make your career longer if you can actually have that time off.

Well, I've been adamant about, I think, that there should be... I thought the Scottish Open last year was the first co-sanctioned PJ Torn D.P. World Tour event. And I thought that was a great success. I thought it made a ton of sense to have a FedEx cup race going on, a race to Dubai, you know, going on at the same time. It was not confusing at all. It was great to see Ryan Fox in the mix with Zander Shoffley, those two don't usually go head to head very often.

And it felt like, wow, there's a lot of the Venn diagrams really overlapping here. And I just haven't heard a whole lot of chatter about moving towards more of that, which it seems to make so much more sense for this new structure. And again, emphasizing 2023 is going to be different than 24 and 2024 is very much a to be determined thing here. But I'm curious as to if that I'm guessing that you're pushing for that, but do you think that there's actual momentum momentum for that? I think so. I think the PJ Toulouse are recognized as good for European golf and golf in general. Right. You have a lot of a lot of people. I like to see the best place in the world together more

often in Europe. And especially UK crowds have shown up every time somebody goes, right? It's really, really a treat to be able to play there. If JPE is pro, I mean, if isn't an example of it, where it's a benefit event fundraiser, where you have, you know, half of islands show up into that golf course, right? It's, it's a perfect example. Plus, you're also given a lot of people in the European Tour of Chants to showcase what they can do. There given a lot of people in the European Tour of Chance to showcase what they can do. There's a lot of fantastic players that may go win that event and earn their spot in the PGA Tour all of a sudden. There's plenty of them that have the talent to play. It's just not that easy to get here, especially if you start in Europe. It's a very difficult route. It gives the tour a bit more

of a broad sense and a bit more variety on what can happen. I would love to see that more often. That would be epic. I'm secretly, not so secretly pushing for one in Spain. I would love to see a big one in Spain. I go to play in Spain every year and, you know, since Sebi passed away and kind of the crisis, head Spain hasn't had the big events I used to have. So I would love to see one there plus. Yeah, good weather, good food, good golf. I think it's a pretty good

country to be doing a big tournament on if you can get past the meal times, meaning how late we basically have our dinners and lunches and everything else, but same with France, Germany, Italy, so many possible countries where you can be doing this on. It doesn't have to be the same one every year, right? You can wrap. Exactly. That's the thing is I think the rotation both domestically and internationally, right? I think it, you know, the PGA tour is winning out in all of this, I think overall, you know, it has been for 20 years. Basically since Tiger, as more money is flowed to the PGA tour,

more European players have come to play the PGA tour. And I think it makes the most sense for the best players in the world to accumulate there. However, that doesn't mean that has to only be in the United States. And I think there is a, the DP World Tour has seemingly, I don't want to say given up a lot in this. I think that they, you know, they're going to gain from this overall, but some concessions have been made to make it, you know, almost a feeder system of some kind, right? There's there's PJ tour cards to be on to the DP World Tour. Now getting some golf over there

can and should be a priority. I agree with you just said I think we've heard since the whole live came up right we've heard a lot of people from both sides you can hear say you know growing the game would go right we're here to grow the game golf and I think when the WGC's happened it was a missed opportunity when you're calling something a world golf championship and three of them are happening in Minnesota. I understand is the biggest market, but I think you missed an opportunity, right?

Why don't we go to South America more? Why don't we go to Africa at all? What do we go to Asia more often? Middle East, they are golf hungry out there and they should have the opportunity to be able to see this, especially if you want to make golf a bigger name. If you take Formula 1 on tennis, they go all over the freaking place, right? So I think we have an opportunity to make that happen.

Now, Lyft did it, so that might not be something that PJ Tour wants to pursue as much, but I think it's an opportunity there to take the PGA tour and again, a golf to different places that may not see it in a regular basis. That would be, it's an opportunity, that's what I can say. Yeah, it's interesting, right? But it's a, you know, the thing that the PGA tour and DB World Tour have to do, they work within a real financial system that has the money coming in is what goes out. There's no Prince money that funds it all that is, you know, you can make it make business sense too.

That's a huge challenge. But, yeah. But if you make one of those big events, or you're guaranteed to have 17 on the top 20 players in the world, right, you will have people that show up. You can go to Singapore, you would have the crowd, you would have the crowd, like you just TV rating might change obviously, because it's different timing.

But go to South Africa, go anywhere. They will, yeah, one of those events in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I mean, they'll turn up. They'll be there for sure. And because I mean, they want to happen there. Right. So it's if you can guarantee the biggest place in the world, which up until now has been a sketchy thing to do. Now you can kind of do it. I think it's an opportunity. A quick break here to check them with our friends that whooped the personalized digital fitness and health coach and official fitness wearable the PGA and LPGA tours. It is New Year's resolution SCN. I'm tracking my data a lot more responsibly these days.

One of my trap draw goals was to get to bed at earlier time, wake up earlier, be a little bit more productive with my time. You can monitor that directly in your whoop. It's smaller, it's smarter. It's designed with biometric tracking, it includes your skin temperature, your blood oxygen, it's got a smart alarm, it's designed to wake you up, feeling refreshed, ready to take on your day. There's a psychological effect of these things, when you see several red days in a row, your phone is basically telling you what your body

is trying to tell you as well, like you need some rest, man, like go sleep for 10 hours, go do it, go figure out a way to do it. I know it's easier for some than others, but it's great information to have. It'll affect your decision making in a positive way. And then all new waterproof devices free when you sign up for a Woop 4.0 membership. If you are an existing member and you have six months left of membership on your account, you can upgrade now to the 4.0 for free.

And they're offering 15% off when you use code NLU15 at checkout so go to woop.com, whop.com, and or NLU15 at checkout to save 15%. Let's get back to John Rom. A conclusion I've reached through all of this and dating really back to August when you guys got in a room in Delaware and Met has been, it has been, I think extremely hard for PGA tour leadership to take 200 different opinions that come into them

and come up with the best option. And that you guys are, you guys are, you know, share in some of the blame, if you will, for not getting in a room sooner to have discussed the best way to make your product marketable. Right? It's everyone, as the years have gone by, it just kind of slips and slips and slips. It's hard to get people in the same room because you guys all play the same events, right? And it seemed like a light bulb has gone off in terms of understanding how much power you guys have as the top players in the world.

What's your reaction to any of that? I'm open to any any critiques of that. Oh, you're asking why we haven't done it sooner? I'm saying do you do you agree that you maybe should have that you should have done that sooner and that wasn't. Well, we've heard this thing many times as players, we are the PGA tour, right? For management, we've heard that a many times.

We're players. Our job is to put the product out there. It shouldn't be our job to revolutionize and start thinking about how to make the PGA tour better. That to me is management's job. Is there a job to me is management's job. Is there a job to innovate and is a job to change? They did it with the FedExCop in 2007

and they should have kept trying to innovate and make things different and more enticing for the consumers out there, right? So that should be the office's job, not our job. My job, John Rom, is to shoot as low as I can and try to win a golf tournament. Their job is to put the product out there. They give us a platform yet, but it should be their thought, right? Now, with the appearance of live, you gave the

players a perspective and a level of power that we didn't have before, or we didn't understand we had. So we kind of put our foot down and make some changes that we wanted. And that's how it's happened. But this shouldn't have come from us. I don't think it should have been the players. I don't think it should be liking baseball, like how they have a, what is it, a lockdown or whatever they do every three years to get more money or get whatever it is.

I don't want to be doing that. We shouldn't be put into that situation and threaten not to play or threatening to do, to go to live, to have a change, right? It should be very initiative as managers, let's say, management of the PJ tour. I was on the stand. It's very difficult to all of a sudden change something that has been working, right? I mean, it's increasingly persistent.

I've gotten bigger. Everything's gotten a little bit better. But when you look lose Tiger Woods, which I think the greatest thing, listening to Sky's was Tiger winning the 2019 Masters, all this money could flow in back in, because everybody thought, oh, Tiger's back, right? And you don't know how long he's gonna be back.

At this point, he's gonna play for maybe five times a year, so now will be the time to be making some changes. I think if he had a one-down masters, which I don't even wanna think about that world I think if he had a one-down masters, which I don't even wanna think about that world, but if he had a one-down masters, I think the PJ Tour would have been pushed to make some changes earlier, because you can count on a once every 50-year generation talent

or more to come up and fix your problems, because that's just not fair. This is not basketball, you're not gonna have to make superstar, dominating like that, because it's a little different to, to all the sports. I agree with almost all of what you said there. I think Keith Mitchell made a great point that said right after kind of that meeting happened. He said, if J.

Monhan and the tour would have come to you guys and said, Hey, you're all going to play these events. The reaction would have been a lot different than you guys getting in a room and deciding together to go say, here's what we want to do, PGA tour, go make this happen. Does that, does that part at least make sense, right? If they, if the tour comes to you to dictate, okay, what you guys would have done, that would not have gone over as well as maybe it, it has in the momentum wouldn't be the same. Listen, I think, I think individuals would unlike being told what to do. Exactly.

But if they put us in a room and they say, hey, we're thinking about this. And we all discuss. So they come to us about the change. I think it would have been different. We can give our opinion instead of us having to go to them, which, listen, however it is, it's happening. Whether you like it or not, or you like the process or not changes are happening.

They're good changes, right? So that's all I can say about that. But if you were to tell us, hey, you can have to play this event, but you're going to be playing for 20 million blah, blah, blah. Maybe we all go, OK, we're doubling the first. As you're doing all these things, we're playing against the best players in the world.

At the end of the day, it is a better product. Oh, it's fascinating. I can't wait to see how it all plays out. What did you think of the first, besides winning it? What did you think of the first designated event? Did it feel any different at all? As a player, what did you think how that went? So one of you guys in the podcast, N winning it. What did you think of the first designated event? Did it feel any different at all? As a player, what did you, what did you think how that went? So one of you guys in the podcast knelt it. I think that tournament is so unique. It has so much character by itself that are really the in feel that different. Right? The feel

size didn't really change. We have 39 instead of 34. Still great players, right? It really didn't change that much to how it felt. I'm sorry, century, you probably don't want to hear that. But to me, you know, because of how special it is, is one off, right? You didn't feel that different. Now, I bet we'll Phoenix and maybe the best example for something like that, but, you know, it will start feeling a little bit different. Maybe the environment around you, but it's players, you know, I can promise you I've never had a shout on the pitch or thinking about money, so that shouldn't really change how we play,

but the crowd atmosphere of mine makes it a little bit better. That's why I said Phoenix is already on, always an all time high, so it won't be better, but LA probably would be different, Bay Hill probably would be better, right, everything would be getting increasingly better. I did like it though,

I mean, you now have certain events for the regular people watching that can highlight oh my god we have this event coming up right I mean we have not many events in the PJ tours very easy to forget it just oh here's the Masters right and the next is the the play of championship right so we can have a you know a bunch of other tournaments to be looking forward to that would be major quality especially with a quality of pleasure can have a bunch of other tournaments to be looking forward to. That would be major quality, especially with a quality of play. Is it going to have there? I thought it was as a viewer, it was great. I'm going to watch that tournament anyways, having a 20% better field elevated the event.

I mean, I know we're not supposed to use that word elevated, but it was nice to cut over to fits, cut over to Tom Kim. It really kept your attention as a viewer. I think they, they stepped, NBC stepped out their game. I thought so too. From what I've seen, from what I've seen that broadcast was significantly better to what has been in the past. The live drone shots of the bulls rolling down 18. Sick.

For people that don't know that is so hard to do. Because I didn't even realize it was a drone in the first way. Right. Because those things are loud. Like if they're running the tee box, they can bug you. They move and they're adjusted, especially on the win. So, I think that's that is so hard to do because I didn't even realize it was a drone for a win Right because those things are loud like if they're on the t-bog they can bug you if they move and they're adjusted especially on the win So to be able to have those shots, I mean, I thought it was sick. I think they're getting much much better I'm producing let's say the product that that everybody wants to see because I watch golf I love watching golf and there's many times when I'm like man

This is hard to watch and if I love this game that much, I can only imagine somebody is not letting to it. Thank you, John Rom. That is basically where our biggest takeaway from the last 10 years has been like, this has got to get more entertaining to watch. But how do, okay, let me ask you, how do you make it more entertaining? Because it's not like you have not stopped action, right? It's difficult to do. It is, it is, but what you just described helped, I think you guys all getting together on the same golf courses helps.

Like it helps to just be able to cut to a guy that we have a lot more context on and it helps to, you know, the commercial windows are gonna be what they are, but it helped like the final hour presented by Calloway that was commercial free. And it might have been a little scripted to have the Calloway guy come from way behind it

to go win the golf tournament. I don't know if that was fake or true and show stuff or whatever it was, but like little things like that. We're all paid, we're all just actors. Little things like that are gonna keep, I mean, what's gonna about to happen with golf when this Netflix series comes out

is there's gonna be an increase in people that are at least interested in watching it, right? And if it was, if they're met on Sunday with a product that even you describe is hard to watch, then they're not going to stick around as much. But if they can just do little things to hook you in, it's not drastic changes. It's just, I don't know, I'm more hopeful after seeing, you know, what happened in this first event, I think. So I just, I also understand it's difficult to do.

It was very easy, like I said, when you had Tiger on TV for four hours, you had to do a show Tiger walking and do something to talk about, right? Again, it's just a transition, they're gonna have to figure out, I get it. It's not easy to do, but it was nice to see all this new adaptations to it. It was very cool.

100%. All right, I'm ready to talk OWGR. I'm very excited to talk to you about this topic. So you as I'm going to start on by saying, I could be very wrong with what I'm saying. I'm just giving you my opinion on how it feels like I's a player to play the way I have and not change at all in the world ranking. So it's just my, my, my, my sentiment on it. I understand that.

I think we can get down to what I think is a flaw in it that I think would address a lot of what you're talking about here. But you know, you've noted you won three times. You're last five stars. You've moved up. I think one spot in the world ranking if even that in that time. No, you five to know. You haven't moved up at all. Maybe I went down to six for a brief moment. I haven't changed. Well, let's start it with this. What do you think the purpose of the OWGR is? And do you think that's different than what you think it should be? So there is some issues that the old system had, right? Like, oh, I think every tour or most of the big tours could have a flagship event that

would have a minimum amount of events, right? So BMW at one worth had a minimum 75 points, right? No matter how weak for the listeners, no matter how weak the field was, it was defaulting to getting 75 points or whatever. Yeah, I think the Spanish open was a minimum of like 26 and the things like that that made sense to me, right? So I think on the way of trying to make a deeper field, you know, good players stronger, they devalued this selective high level events, meaning even though we're getting more points per player, if you go to the numbers and a 50 man feel

with the best place in the world, the winner gets me as a winner of century. I got the same point as Adam's venture winning RSM, right? Even though there was no top players at RSM, we had 17 at top 20. That to me is the mistake. That to me feels like beating the best players in the world no matter how small the field is, is not getting, let's say rewarded as much as it should be. Because by that law law The masters should be getting significantly less points on the players Actually most majors we get them significantly less points on the players, right? I mean, it's how it is the PJ of the PJ championship has 25 club rows They're not even nowhere near the world ranking, right?

So if you go by that logic you could do that to the majors too, right? That's that's kind of where everything goes. And I understand they try to make an adjustment of showing how strong the PG tour truly is, right? But I think they missed how much way the best place in the world should have an tournament. And that's where we talked about it. I'm like, when worth, I think you had big enough players to where you should be earning more points That whoever wins napah. Sorry Max Homa. I know this come a lot. I know this has had come up a lot But I think it's a hard tournament to win right that's

Because you simply beat in the best players of the world and that was the explanation that's basically What I was referring to what I've been referring to right you get in hurt because you don't have players 70 to 150 and that's where I think that the, just to put this out, and we can back into the logic behind this, but I think that the flaw here is in the limited field events, the points are spread too smoothly amongst the whole field.

And they should, so how it works now with the new system is every event distributes points. So there's a total amount of points that the event gets and they distribute it the same way whether it's 140 people or there's 40 people in the field, same percentage wise. So basically kind of that shouldn't be what that's so you should be getting more points for winning century and that should be coming from the near the bottom of the field. There's guys that beat one or two guys and they're getting world ranking points, which is like shouldn't be the case. I can't believe I got only 37 when they told me I could have

believed it. I'm like, this isn't saying because I can guarantee you every win's Phoenix is going to get 50 some. And that's, that's, but that's where I think like the math of, of how it works out. There's, and that's where I think people maybe don't fully appreciate not you, but like in general, don't appreciate a zero-stroke game player, the average PGA tour player. If you add 30 of them to a field, if I'm taking you versus all 30 of them, math wise, I would take the field against you.

One of them is likely to beat you. That's just what the numbers would probably say. I don't have that in front of me. The new system gives more credit to that and spreads it. Now, I think you have three very poorly timed wins in this, right? Because in the current calculation, Patrick Cantlay's wins that were in the old system, which gave more points are still there. And you know, that's maybe one of the other things.

You'll take a while for it to adjust. Exactly. Exactly. Like Yasmef, who is not getting any wall ranking points, all his wins were before anything was changed. Therefore, right, the points are still there. Yeah. If they were to adjust what's happened, basically every rank, every system you have, if they were to adjust it right in and there, I think it would equalize and probably be

whatever, two, three, whatever it is, right? But it is what it is. I mean, yeah, it's probably already would also would get more points for winning Mexico, which it was me and Tony Fina on a large field. Then on a really minute fuel, I still don't agree with that, but it. It's just, I will be the first one to tell you that it's not in the same level as others, right? No matter how many players we have. So it's complicated. Listen, this is for mathematicians, statisticians. However, it has to be doing this.

That's what it needs to do, right? But they just need to tweak a little, a couple of things. I think the better players should be valued in a better way. But I think I was told once to put it into perspective. If you make a field with number one in 15 in the world, I think the winner would get 54 points, they said. If you get 51 through 150 in the world or 200,

you make a field, they would win or get 32 points, something like that. So there is a difference, and it could be that a lot of excuse my word in my bitching or my whining is because the time hasn't passed and all those people without one or like the first six months of the year the points haven't been adjusted right that's kind of they could be simple as that now with that said I do have contracts and plays as say based on my wall ranking, I get extra money. So I'm going to a little salty. I'm sorry. This is happens.

That was my next question was, why does it matter to you? And I do the answer to that, right? But it's, uh, well, I want to be number one player in the world, right? And if I feel like I'm playing like it, that's, you know, it's, it's a lot of bit is about almost feeling like getting the respect or the value that you should be getting as a player Which I'm not saying I'm don't but it's just doesn't feel reflected. I understand And if I'm looking at the data I like data golf rankings more than world rankings to show you're at your skill level

Well, they do head-to-head right? Well, it's just more of a stroke's gained kind of thing right? It's not It's more which I think is a great thing for you in terms of, you know, I'll just pull Adam Spenson's name out. If you win an event and then Miss three cuts, that's different level of golf than you finishing fifth place every week, right? Whereas I, to that would say, John Romst, the better golfer in that, right? You know, you didn't get the win, didn't get the big points, but like, better golf was

played over that stretch. And that's more of what their rankings reflect. And your number two in those right now behind Rory and closing in very quickly. So that and that feels that feels pretty accurate to me. But it's it's it's imperfect. But I do think yeah, the the reason why I keep bringing this up and want to talk about it is with the new structure of the tour. And if there's limited field events with top players, it's they're going to keep looking at this to be like, wait, why are there not as many points in this? Why is the distribution the way that it is? And I think it does get

solved by say and let's more heavily emphasize if you win those events, you get more points and let's stop spreading it so thin throughout the rest of the field would be my overall fix for it. Yeah, listen, I don't, I don't understand the full extent of it, right? Clearly. So I, I know we, we, we had another meeting once and I talked to some of the people in the PJ tour in the wall ranking. They said they're going to look into it and see. But I think again, like we just mentioned, if you just let time pass once those old points start disappearing, it will start making sense. I just don't want to have to wait two years for all those events to

wait to just come off. You know, I'm about to lose my US open points and all those other people are going to maintain all these big points, right? It's, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it I just keep keeping all the best players in the world. You'll be totally fine. But exactly another question I had several PGA tour players have requested releases to play in the Saudi international. Cameron Young is one of them a player that's been in these meetings with you guys and seems to be I would say relatively big part of the future of the PGA tour. What's your reaction to that? These are the same guys that are suing the PGA tour are running

this event and go ahead. I'm not 100% sure in all those things, but I'm going to tell you what I suspect. There's a couple of things. The six guys that got granted releases to play, right? So I believe some of those go in might be interested in possibly going to live. My second reasoning would be, I think some players, I don't know who exactly. I think Cameron Young might be one of those because I know some players, I don't know who exactly. I think Cameron Young might be one of those. Because I know some people did,

they signed a contract with the tournament to go play, right, X amount of money to go play for X amount of years. And you could get in the legal issue if you don't go or break that contract. And I wouldn't be thrilled to get into a legal issue with the Saudis, right? Because they have all the time and resources to make your life a live in hell. And you probably don't want that headache.

Now, I also don't think since it's technically an Asian tour event, it does not really live and all that, I think if the PJ tour wouldn't let them go, it could be that that will work against them in the antitrust for sure. lawsuit. So I think those three things are a combination. I don't know who's who, but I don't blame, for the either one of the reasons, right? For obviously, if you're trying to go it's because you're trying to fulfill a contract

and I don't blame him for not wanting to get a legal trouble. And I commend the PGA tour for allowing them to go. I think I hope we're past the pettiness in between tours and we try to make a figure out a way to Make this the best situation we can make it. That's that would be my point of view, right? There's no need to throw any shade towards them and there's no need for them to throw any shade towards the PJ tour I think that you know could be done. There's just at this point put out the best product and

And let's see who lasts longer, right? If you're so confident yours is best, you shouldn't be trying to get enough, you know, yeah, on a battle, on an argument in that sense. And I commend the PJ to for letting those guys go. Uh, now there's also that rule of out of it still in place. Where if you go, you have to go play pebble the next X amount of years. So that benefits a tournament as well that right now is completely underwater. So I don't know, but you know, what I mean underwater, I mean, literally could moderate Peninsula is part of the ocean.

So, you know, it's a way to stay clean with the players and somehow maintain a pretty strong field in the tournament. So I think it's a good thing. Now I was on the stand, those guys, right, oh, I'm on the Indian tour, but right now trying to, you know, you're getting sued by a bunch of them. up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the

next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the

next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I'm going to stand up for the next round. I of, you know, what that looks like. I've always struggled to

picture that. I think I'm, you know, potential reconciliation. I'm starting to crystallize a little bit of how it could work. But in your mind, what is a, what is an idea of how the two can coexist and kind of stop the, the back and forth? I have a small thought on it, but I'm not sure if it would work, but the idea is if the PGA tours work in tours changing, right, this year the fall series events won't count for the FedEx Cup points, right. If we ever get to a point where PGA tour tournaments is like before 2007 is January 1st to last week of August when the tour championship is done, no more official PJ tour events after that.

You could get to a situation where if live only has 10 to 14 events, they could have those 10 to 14 events in September through December, and never coincide with any other PJ tour event again. Because what they're doing right now is obviously putting up their tournaments against the weakest PJ tour tournaments and acting like they're doing right now is obviously putting up their tournaments against the weakest PGA to tournaments and acting like they're better. Like they might be better product. Well,

put it up against Rev, put it up against the players see who wins, right? That's my point of view on that. So if they don't get in again on a petty battle of who's better or who's not, you could essentially end up in that situation. Let them take the fall, we take the rest of the year, there you go. Done. It's, we take the rest of the year, there you go, done. Kind of like the summer league ambassador ball, right? You have it in summer and be able to really care. You can't really do it in a lot of sports,

but you can do it in golf, right? Now with that said, that we put the European to an a difficult position, but that's the only solution I see right now. Because I don't see a way where you can have players bouncing back and forth to like, oh, we're finishing the two championship to more on part of the you know to more on part of the high flyers and playing Down the where so that's a to clarify that you don't see you're not saying play in the fall so pga tour players can also go play and live in the fall right. No, God, no, I think you should make a choice right. I know we're independent contractors, but man, plus if you want to play,

go ahead and play in 20 events, because another 14, 35, 34 tournaments a year, that would be any of your playing in Rattaka. That would be 35. That's a lot of tournaments to play, especially going around the world in the fall. So I don't think anybody would choose to do that. But I don't think any, like,

I don't think the PJ tour would go for that either. They're not going to allow somebody to sign a hundred million out of deal with them today. And also be that will dip it on the PJ tour. I don't think they would. And do you agree with that philosophy as a PJ tour player and as a professional golfer? I mean, I think a lot of the live players have made the case and have have said we should be able to double dip. We should be able to do both of those things. For listeners sake, can you explain to their,

whether or not you agree with that and why that might be the case? Since it's not a possibility of having given it much thought, I really haven't. I think a lot of this again gets into the independent contractor definition, right? But when you sign with a PJ tour, you sign, I think I don't know the word, the word that I'm going to say, I don't know legal words, right? But when you sign with a PJ tour, you sign, I think out of the word, the word that I'm going to say, I don't know legal words, okay? But you sign some type of exclusivity deal, right? They own the right to your image. That's probably the first problem. That, right? The first problem you have there. And again, you need permission from the PJ tour to go play in other tours, which is granted in the past.

They've just chosen not to do it with lip, which is fully in the right up beliefs. So I don't know, I don't necessarily think you should be able to do both. I'm not judge anybody. Feel free to go to lip, take the money, the whatever you want. I'm not going to judge if that's your choice. But double dip in and doing both seems, yeah, just to me, that doesn't seem like is the right thing to do.

Right. Okay, we can, I can disagree with players on it. They can think whatever they want. I'm with it. I just don't think you should be doing both. Right, I don't know. I said right now,

I don't see a possibility of that happening and I just, right now, and think you'll be the right thing to do. And the future, we don't know how things are in the shape of, but it doesn't seem like a possibility either. That's what any chance I get to connect the dots of you've signed away your image, right? But the PJ Tora has gone and sold that to a lot of different sponsors and television partners to say, here's what John Rom is worth.

And also he just won this tournament. And here's $2.7 million, John Rom, for us putting this tournament together for you and marketing this and selling this. And it's also not forget, which I think a lot of people forget. You get in those contracts by live because of the platform that PJ tours allowed you play a hundred percent period. Period. So you owe, obviously your talent stays you far far, but to an extent, you owe that platform

to the PJ tour. So to still owe that platform to the PGA tour. So to still use that platform to stay relevant and make more money in the other place, just doesn't seem right. And that's where you drop in and just wait till the other platform gets bigger and your worth is whatever it is. That's right. I mean, I wouldn't be known anywhere if I was on the PGA tour. Very simple.

That's why it's awkward to say that. I imagine the average golf fan how many European tour players they know and even other great players, they probably don't know that many. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's what it's always awkward to say. But if despite your obvious talent, like your golf is not really worth anything without a stage to compete on, right? And you like, you can go around to clinics every now and show off your driving ability and things like that and people can pay for that. But without a stage to compete on, your golf is really worth nothing. And the pooling of all of your guys' rights is where all the value is derived from. And look, is it perfect? Is everything perfect? Of course not.

But I would always ask people how many CFO players do you know? Question. Not a big non, right? It's the biggest platform is the how the pull. It's very simple. You want to see the best thing is the best. And that's in right now is when the PGA toward again, I'm going to say a one more time because it's,

you don't know what the future holds, right? And I hate to give a statement that says, this is going to be like this forever. You don't know what's going to be like in the future. That's what I keep saying is right now. That's kind of how, right? You to an extent, oh, the PGA tour, something. You've earned it. right, you to an extent, hold the PG tour something. You've earned it.

Yes, you've earned your spot there, but they allowed you to have that platform to be and have that image. That's my view and at least on it for the time being. That makes a lot of sense. You've advocated for live players to be able to play in the Ryder Cup. Have you gotten anywhere with that?

How do you think that will play out? Listen, I'm going to tell you right now. I saw all the posted, I think the Ryder Cup posted a video of Mollinari's birthday, right? Like they were doing that the day before I knew it was Sergio's birthday and they didn't do it. So I think the decision has been made for me. I think the Ryder Cup is involved in my mind, PGA tour and any of those things. Right? The right cup could be the biggest marketing tool golf has without we don't get paid,

we don't get points, we don't get anything except bracket rights to be win or lose. Period. Again, it's a bit of in my mind, I always try to think of the point of view of golf, right? What's best for golf? And you want to see the best players there. Surgery is the greatest radical player in history, statistically, point-wise. The some people that have made the European team be who, what it is, right? Sevvie being one of them, Falo, Monty. You have many staples on each side in European. I mentioned those, right? I think Serge is one of them.

Polters, one of them, right? So when you've been part of the team and you've made the team what it is, to not be allowed to be involved in any way, I don't necessarily agree with it. Plus, I think Europe, I mean, it's Europe against the US. It's not the PJ Tour against Lips. So to me, you should give those players the opportunity to be part of the team.

Now, you're also playing with, if there's some, right, if there's some, let's say, for lack of a better word, be from between players, you don't want that in the locker room. So I say, Captain and as a European, they need to do what's right. I also think it could be, listen, even though it hurts me because I have so much fun with Sergio and we play so good that I would love to keep playing with him again. You have some young Europeans that maybe

they would not have made it because they haven't had a chance, but we have a lot of young players that will have a chance this time in Europe. So I'm hoping, you know, it could be a fresh start. We see what the US team did last. We're going to come with a younger team. So not that we're going to win 19 to, what's it, 9, 8, whatever it was. I don't know. I try to forget it. Not that we're going to do that, but, you know, you have a fresher start on the team.

So again, there's always a positive in every situation. But yeah, I think with that post, that decision was made already and they just haven't announced it. Well, I think I mentioned the press conference, both sides need to make a unanimous decision, right? Obviously you can't have one team

allowing live and the other one's not doing it. I don't think that PG is gonna allow live players to play, but if they decided to do it, I think the European team should open that possibility. That's where I'm not even sure where I net out on this one. I know it's extra confusing because like, president's cup is PGA tour. And that's obvious that live players shouldn't be able to compete in that for obvious reasons. Yet Ryder Cup is DP World Tour on the European side, but PGA of America, then it's just, it just, it almost is like, it's a slippery slope, honestly.

If like, if I, if I'm here as an American fan and you say you want Sergio, I'd is like, it's a slippery slope, honestly. If I'm here as an American fan and you say you want surgery, I'd be like, I wouldn't mind adding Dustin Johnson to the US Ratter Cup team. Is that a net win for you guys? I don't know the answer. You know, so. Listen, make sense. I get it.

Yeah. I say any Europe says screw it, we're having them. It should only fare for the Europe for Americans to have that option too. Yeah. Well, I just think that's such a different battle than this PGA tour. Like the what we just talked about with media rights and all that is very obvious to me as to why you can't double dip, but writer cup is not nearly as obvious to me.

And it's I don't have a clear answer on that. And I'm I want to say like, no, of course they can't play. But then I'm like, wait, why can't they? Like it kind of makes sense. But I don't know. Right. It's complicated. It's tough. But you also don't want to have a negative environment, right? Like you don't want to have the essence of the right of coffee will be the no matter who plays. Yeah. Live players being allowed in the masters invited to the masters, I should say, where do you agree with that? Was that what you're expecting?

100%. Again, major. Just stay away. They should have been allowed to play majors. You've earned the right. I don't see why not. You want to master the Clare job, whatever it may be, you've earned the right to be there.

I don't. This is PGA Tour versus Lit. It's not major. Are are, you know, a different animal. Right. So they choose to complain play, who can't play. That should be how it is. And I don't think it's good for golf, to not allow seven past champions to play.

What do you know about Marco Simone and how that fits the European teams playing style? I haven't been there yet. I've heard this quite hilly, quite hilly. A lot of times is the setup, right? You're going to have narrow furways thicker rough and slower greens, right? Completely away from what essentially the Americans would like. So the setup does a lot of it. Obviously, when you have the chance to design a golf course, they're going to try to pull tours Europe and our strengths. But I haven't seen it yet. I'm going to play and go before the

Ryder Cup. I don't know if I'll be either before or after the Open Championship or before or after when work will be one of those two. I'll definitely make the effort to go there and play it a couple of times to see it before the Ryder Cup. But it's, I don't know that much about it. That's what I can say. I find it very nearly. I'm like, OK, that's all you can tell me about it. Great. It looks like the last three holes are really cool for competition.

The driver will part 4, 18, the low part 5, or you can have a bit of everything. But a lot of it comes from setup. You can set anything up to favor one or the other team. Last question I'm going to ask you. I need to add this to my question that I ask everyone on the podcast. What's a shot on the PGA tour that makes you the most uncomfortable or that gives you the most things the most anxiety?

What's a shot that like a lot of it is circumstantial. Yeah, a lot of it. It's hard to say want, man. Just one. Anything come to mind of like, oh, that t-shot. I just can't hit it with my fade. But I don't know. I was just curious what if there was something something that came to mind, I'm like, well, it's a couple I can come up with. I can't really hit a fade on the second, second, all the sawgrass.

I can't really hit a fade at a 13 out of a gusta. I'll say, I've seen, I've seen corn fairy guys hit a fade over the trees. Oh, number two at sawgrass go up and over with a fade. It's, it's not for everyone, but it's not what your eyes will go. When you see that, but it's hard to do. It's very hard. Oh, my God. I've, I've seen somebody do it. Sergio did it for fun because we're messing around, but you can also turn a five-wood to the same spot. So mainly because there's always left to right wind there. That's why it's difficult. It's tough to hook it that much and then the fairly slopes away. Like it's difficult.

It's hard. There's a lot of times as newer courses, any US Open Shot can get testy. I don't think most people understand how difficult a t-shirt on 18 at TPC saw-gresses. I don't think people get it. It's extremely, extremely tough, especially with that wind sideways. You never have it on one way, it's always sideways. Same with 17. It would be the shortest, hardest shot you'll hit. So I'm gonna say that one, just because of how much, if you missed the far away either, which way to one stroke, but I don't think pretty much any time, right?

It's difficult to save a part of you missed the far away. So I'm gonna say that whole. I love it. All right, John, thank you for the candid conversation. We greatly appreciate it. Best of luck the rest of the year. I'm sure we bump it into you in a couple of different tournaments down the road. But appreciate your time as always. Thanks so much and best of luck the rest of the year. I'm sure we bump it into you at a couple of different tournaments down the road.

But appreciate your time as always. Thanks so much and best of luck the rest of the year. Well, pleasure. It's gonna be the right club. Be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about it?

That is better than most. Better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.