No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 637: Max Homa

Episode Date: January 25, 2023

He's back! Max Homa returns to the pod to talk fatherhood, managing a changing golf swing, working with a sports psychologist for the first time, being a member of the PAC, Presidents Cup and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying podcast, Sully here really quick before we get going. There's some audio on Max's end like the first six minutes or so. It sounds slightly garbled.

I'm not exactly sure what was going on on his end, but we fix it a few minutes in just bear with us in the beginning. Let's get right into it. All right. Now that we're on team title, we can we can finally have you on the pod. I'm just I'm sure the audience is so relieved. There's just open up so many doors for us. You would have never spoken to us before unless we were on team title. Yeah, it was dirty before. You know, it was it was a lot of back door phone calls going in the garage in the middle of the night. It was awkward, so I'm glad it said, you know, everything's cool now.

We're one big happy family. I'm stoked you guys are a part of Team Tileus with me. This is gonna make things a lot more fun for me. I was really blown away on the fitting process. I know you go out there pretty much annually. I think, or what is your fitting process like? And when do you go? And what are at this point in your career,

and when you've got your game as dialed as it's been, what are you changing adjusting? What does that look like for you? Yeah, I go about this time of year, every year, try to go the weekend before the farmers. I'm going to go Saturday afternoon and then Sunday morning. Part of it is just to practice with Mark. And then part of it is to tweak stuff, try stuff and see if it's worth changing.

But it's funny, man, you go, you know, every year I go there, I think, oh, I've got everything figured out equipment wise. And last year had a really big breakthrough, you know, switch from my blade for iron to the T100s for iron, which was a big deal. And then ended up two weeks later switching the T100 five iron as well. And that has become a big benefit to me. I feel like I've been really good, especially with that 5-iron since going. So it's funny, you just think you have it figured out and you realize that, you know, I'm really only good at swinging, chipping and putting. And there are people who I need to lean on to make these kinds of choices for me. So it's nice to go have some time to figure things out and ask questions and then have people like JJ,

who is my favorite fit I've ever had to kind of tell me, hey man, don't have to do it, but if you want to try this, it's been working for other guys or we've seen an improvement here that use your stats and everything. So it's like an all-inclusive golf dork resorts trip. You just get to hit a bunch of balls, chip a bunch, putt, and then get all,

you know, cool new fancy stuff that makes you feel a lot better at golf. I mean, yeah, it was, I'd never, you get to hit probably ones on the range every time you go play golf out of the range. If you're getting to do that for me, it was a treated terms of like actually getting dialed in on how far stuff goes was pretty outrageous. But I think we sent you this after, after century.

I think the best compliment we can pay you at this point in your career as you finish T3 at century. And I don't think we mentioned your name in like a two hour podcast after that episode, which I both like semi-apologize for, but also that's a sign of respect of when you finish T3 in a PGA tour, a designated P pj tor event these days it doesn't necessarily get on our radar it's just kind of kind of blase if you will. Dude I was I was truly honored by that uh that was awesome uh like I said

I am I am here to be told I don't play well enough in majors and I need to win one that is exactly the level I like I would like to be at that's an honor a lot better than how did he get into this event type stuff so I was I was stoked on that that was that was like you said that was about as big a compliment as I could have gotten what has got you excited about 2023 just open any question there what what's got you pumped rider cup I think first and foremost I, I am very excited about the majors. I didn't, obviously didn't have like some kind of great major season last year,

but I did for me have a breakthrough at the PGA where I just played good, played good golf and got 13th, you know, people think I'm joking, but at one point, like I did realize I was on Sunday, I was in the hunt in a weird way, nowhere near the top of the leaderboard, but with like seven holes to go, six holes to go, if I played them five or six under, I think I would have got into that playoff, and I know that sounds stupid, but you know, that's the first time I've ever had any kind of chance at least in my head, whether

that's realistic or not, obviously it's very, very unrealistic, but I had never even had a prayer. I've been going off late on Sundays or watching from home. So it was cool to feel that heat and to play four good days in a major. So for some reason, I think ever since that happened, I felt a little bit looser and more knowledgeable about how the process goes. And my game has been about this good for the last year and a half or so and developing some new shots and some new techniques as far as to how to deal with pressure and getting in my own head. I'm really excited for the challenge of the masters coming up in April.

I think all of the tournaments, all the majors, suit me pretty well the way I've been driving it. And so it's exciting to go into, like last try, I wanted to, all the majors suit me pretty well, the way I've been driving it. And so it's exciting to go into, like last try, I wanted to go into the majors and feel like I didn't leave with a completely sour taste of my mouth as I had the year prior, which was just a bunch of miscuts. Last year, you know, making a bunch of cuts and leasing it and to feel what like Sunday of the Masters felt like was a big deal for some dumb reason.

So I'm excited for that. And I'm excited for entertainment-wise for the schedule we've got this year. It's not going to be a huge change for the fans, I guess. But it is, I think it'll be a deceptively big one. Just because the waste management is coming out, that's going to be our first big event with a full field here. And like Rory, Kamada coming to Phoenix and JT and Spieth and I know that they played already but having every single one of those

guys with Scotty Sheffler defending I think some of that stuff's gonna be a cool development for the fans of the game so there's a lot to be excited for this year but it always starts with how you're playing. Unfortunately I'm excited just about my game. You said something about techniques you're working on for under pressure. I literally had that on my list to talk to you about in terms of how you handle that, how you practice that, how do you possibly prepare for that. I closed my mind watching you guys hit shots with all the people around that mean, the shots that mean so much.

What are you doing there and how have you seen that be effective? See what's odd is like the Sundays and the, I guess the, the tip of your brain, stressful, high pressure shots, those are not the ones that give me trouble. It's the lead up to a Thursday of a big event or Friday or whatever that may be. So like for how my brain kind of has worked is, if I get myself in a contention Saturday, Sunday, I know I'm playing well, so it's fun.

Like it's a joy. Like I know it's more of a, hey, I'm going to go show off type thing. I think that's why I've been successful in the hunt and in these events. You know, I've played quite well in the final groups. I've closed out tournaments. And I think that's just the way I operate. I need to see, I need validation. And Joe had brought it up at Congri on the 17th hole on Sunday, right before we were about to take a big break. And he said,

hey, you know, I got, I have someone I want to bring up, you know, I think it will help you. I think you should talk to a sports psychologist. I have tried that before way in the past and like it. So he's like, just try it. He goes, I really think it'll help you. He goes, and he did it perfectly. And the reason I bring up a whole was, uh, is because I think it was a, it will be a momentous part of my journey in this game and a momentous moment in a way,

because I've never really worked on my mental game, the way he was talking about it. He said, I'm not telling you this because I think you're broken. I'm telling you this because I think it could boost us up real high in this game of golf. And I don't know why, but when he presented to me like that, it didn't feel like.

Sometimes I think in a weird way, as much as I'm very pro people seeing therapists and speaking to psychologists when someone suggests that you're like, wait, I've been better. Like you like get defensive. And the way he put it was like I'm just like kind of not tapping into a big facet of the game. I think you know, skill wise, talent wise, a lot of guys on tour might you know, I myself included like we've been working at this for so long. There's only so much incrementally I can get better at in this game, truly. And there's a ton you can do in

other areas. Some people struggle on Sundays, some people struggle like me on Thursday, some people struggle on Saturday. So everyone's got their thing. So I started talking to somebody. We talk about life and all this stuff, but I have like an understanding of where I get off and how I practice it, I practice it at home. You know, when I'm, when I have a shot, I'm a lot more like internal when I'm, and, and, I guess, aware when I'm playing like a fun round at home. If I start to have a feeling, I don't like, just say, oh, it doesn't matter. It's a Tuesday.

I'm like, all right, let's pretend this is a golf tournament you're feeling this already and you might feel this you know you're going to feel this again at Tory Pine so tap into it and then it's like okay well why do you feel this way do you think and then like break it down then like okay so how are you gonna go about you know overcoming that feeling and like practicing that way and it was fun to play the centuries is the first event well I guess the hero was the first event, but the hero was early on when I was talking to sports psychologists and it was also coming off like, you know, four weeks post baby, and I hadn't really been practicing a lot. So I

was trying to be, it was almost a learning experience for both of us, because I could, I felt very small and all the bad things came up, because I didn't play well. But it was a lot of it was, you know, just not playing well. So it was fun to go to the century and be like, I'm going to put these things to work. I'm going to practice these things and I saw it in a crazy amount. You know, Thursday, Friday, for me, I, on the leaderboard didn't play very well. I was in 26, 27 place, but I would usually turn that into 35th by, it's not an attitude like moping around. It would have been just me trying to hit a hero shot

or me feeling insecure. And instead, I was like, you're playing great, ball's not going in the hole, maximize these two days, and then all of a sudden Saturday I got there and black out and all of a sudden, you know, I wasn't in the golf term, but I was in the hunt for a great finish. So that was fun, just seeing stuff like that. So it was fun to practice that in a sudden, I wasn't in the golf term, but I was in the hunt for a great finish. So that was fun, just seeing stuff like that.

So it was fun to practice that in a tournament, but that's how I practice at home is, when I have a feeling, I try not to just shrug it off, like I normally would, because any day at home on a Tuesday, you hit a bad shot, and it's so easy to just be like, well, this doesn't matter,

because it doesn't, to the grand scheme of things, but it's hard to practice mental stuff. So you got to take those chances or take those opportunities when they come. And like, you know, I was, I was talking to her earlier this week. And I was saying, hey, this feels weird right now. And I feel like I'm getting ahead of myself. Oh, what if this happens at Tori, this that or whatever. And she goes, this is good. Go out because I was playing that after. And she's like, when you go play this afternoon practice that like practice how you would want to be when you play Wednesday at Tori Pines. And I'll say oh cool and I went out and I saw in an improvement and I guess you know that's that's how I've been trying to do it. Again it's early

on but I've enjoyed this kind of learning experience. I told her earlier as like the reason I struggle with speaking with people speaking to people about this is I've never seen how a mental boost is tangible because it feels so Intangible and she said my goal for you by the end of this is that you're gonna realize that it is tangible Obviously in a figurative sense and I felt that a lot at century. So it's just cool You know wherever this goes is is kind of wherever it goes, but noticing little things, internaments is really fun. And that was the first one I got to really see an improvement and see a result because

of it. Well, it's interesting about the mental side is for a long time, I always thought it meant to like, oh, just be positive, just be super positive. Yeah. I have a great attitude. That's all it means. Whereas it is a lot more complicated than that. And it takes repetition. And it takes repetition and it takes maintenance.

It's not something that you just like learn once and you have it forever. It, you know, you're gonna go through ups and downs of all that. I have kind of a weird question. Sometimes like if I'm playing decent golf and I go to the course the next day, I still have a question of whether or not it's still there, right?

If you take like three days off of playing golf, is there ever a doubt that it's still there for you? I don't know how to ask that question other than like, if you're, you know, you just had a baby, you're taking some time away from golf, and when you go pick those clubs back up, what is that process like of figuring out whether or not you still have it? Is that a thing at all at your level? It is every single day of my life. Okay, that makes you feel it's like a tad better. When I land in Mara and San Diego and I drive over to TPI and I hit my first flush wedge, I will have some form of a sigh of relief. Every day, it's every day during a week of a tournament. But I think that's kind of maturing in the game as a professional,

is realizing that, hey, you know, I had a weird putting day on Monday, that does not mean I will have a weird putting day on Tuesday. And if it happens to get on Tuesday, it does not mean that is now my new normal. It's not broken. There's a way to fix it. No, probably you're probably closer to it than you think. A lot of that is just experience, you know, anytime I'd have something off, especially early in my career when I was playing poorly, it would be like a whole rebuild instead of realizing

man, you might be one little tweak away or one feeling away from it being back to as good as it could possibly be. So I, like you said though, it takes maintenance, like I need to remind myself that it's not like this thing is, it's natural, but yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us feel that way and I think a lot of us go through that. Like when I hear stories about how Rory won't touch a club for four weeks, I like start sweating. But that's like a form of confidence, you know, to me. And that's a good thing.

But part of it I don't mind for myself because that constant fear gets me up in the morning every day to go practice. And that's part of why I'm good. But it's like it's blending the two. It's like having a conference. I know you can feel funny and go out and still play great is big. But it's also there's some some form of the success and confidence of being able to

take a day or two off or have light days and not think that that is why you won't be successful in a you know in a week or a month or a year. there too off or have light days and not think that that is why you won't be successful in a week or a month or a year. When we played with Bethan J.T. at Coppalu, Jordan said something that was really interesting about how it was something along the lines of, I'll never swing the club like I did in 2015 again because my body has changed. It's impossible for me to swing the club in the same way like when I turn When I have a full rotation that's a different feel in

2023 that is in 2015 and that kind of blew my mind. I just never really thought of it that way It's basically like he had this incredible run of golf He fell off a little bit and is now trying to find his way back and I'm asking this through the lens of you've gone through similar ups and downs When you were in your down periods were you trying to find your old swing and did you end up back at your old swing or did were you trying to find new ways to elevate your game? You know what I mean? Like in and your relationship with a swing changing and a field changing and not being able to get it back slash do you want it back? Do you want a new feel? I'm curious your relationship through all of that with your golf swing.

Yeah, that's a great question because a little bit of yes and a little bit of no. We were searching for, I think we were searching for the feeling. I've heard Jordan talk about this on your podcast, maybe a year or two ago. You're searching for this feeling by doing new moves, I guess. And then that's kind of where you're never,

not never, you probably won't find that. So, Jordan's was different. He was playing poorly, but I don't think that he he didn't lost it, but his golf scene was changing a lot. And when your body changes, obviously that is a big thing. I mean, we do it right now. He then lost it, but his golf swing was changing a lot. And when your body changes, obviously, that is a big thing. I mean, we do it right now. Mark and I have these swings from Houston like two years ago,

maybe two, yeah, two years ago that are my favorite golf swings I ever made. And it worked. It was like that for a couple of weeks. I was hitting them all really far and I was driving the hell out of it. And sometimes I'll be looking at it and we'll be dissecting it like what is different this that like whatever. And then finally we'll always land on man, like maybe we need to remasurer how my shoulders moving or my elbows moving or.

Or whatever because it's like maybe that's just like not in the cards right now. And that doesn't mean it's bad. Like I have better range of motion now than I did then. And he goes maybe you just have like the perfect level of stiffness Emobility then and you're like yeah, you know, that's a good point That's why lean on mark a lot. He's been good about that you know Everything starts with like how you're moving and do you move back you know towards fixing your golf swing or whatever improving your golf swing after that But sometimes we all get caught up in it like I just want to swing it like this again

It I guess tiger would be the perfect person to learn that from is like as he changed his golf swing It was almost always around his body and what wasn't working so great and he's made a career Out of each one of those golf swings. So you can make it work But you need to be in tune with what isn't working and it's actually helped me on days where I've been stiffer because it's cold or something. I'm aware of, okay, you know, I struggle with side bend and like staying in my posture. So I know I have to like overdo that because I'm not going to move as well. My hips aren't going to be as like lubed up. So it's good to be aware of that because now I know, hey, if I start like flipping at it or it feels funky,

I'm just, I'm limited somewhere, you know, because of the weather or just because of myself. So like little things like that do change and it's funny. Jordan talks about that because his golf swing does look very different right now that it did in 2015. Positions are important. They're not the end of the world and he's bringing the club down in a very good position So it doesn't like matter as long as you get it in that slot But chasing something that you can't attain waste a lot of time Yeah, and that's where it just kind of seemed like he was not chasing that anymore, right? That was the point of like hey, let's not we're not chasing that here's here's how my body is now Here's what it is now. I feel like something that is like, you know, A, you know, the 600, 700 class level is,

you're probably playing your best golf when you're thinking the least about your golf swing and about technique yet. It's got to be so important to when you are playing well to understand at least physically what is going great, right? It's like what makes your swing quality when it is going well? Is that, do you go back and watch tape

from tournaments you've played really well to see it, to see how it looks compared to how it felt? Is that, am I on a something there? Yeah, part right, like that point is great. The problem is is when you do go back and watch, you don't know the feeling, like you don't know how you were getting it there in the fields and where I messed up in the beginning with Mark was I didn't write down

like what those fields were enough. I had a few not all. So when I'm chasing this look I'm like fixing it by the aesthetic of it but it's not like fully all there and I'm like always missing a piece and I'm like well I just don't have like the feeling like I don't remember how I was doing that. So now like when I'm like, well, I just don't have like the feeling like I don't remember how I was doing that. So now, like, when I'm swinging at grade, I write it down. We have like vernacular for it, like, verbiage for it. Like I say, okay, it's and it's stuff people would never understand because it's just like, it's like gibberish that me and Mark understand together. But like, now it's like, hey, if this is off, it's a go, you're not going tip down enough.

And it's a go, okay, and it's a go, you're not going to tip down enough. And it's like, okay, and it's like, oh, you're not team pocket enough, it's like, okay, and it's like, all these things make sense to us, but I have like, feels throughout the swing now that as Jordan talked about, like, yeah, and your guys podcast, he said he had his 14 feel, which was like arm across the chest. And he had his 15 feel, which was like this.

And it's like, no, I have no idea what that means. That if someone just tried to do that, it wouldn't work for them because they don't know what that is to him. But as long as you know what that is, those things never leave you like the memory of that never leaves you if you write it down and you can, you might not be able to get it back into that exact feeling, but like you'll get what that means. And that, so that's something that, like we're trying to do more of instead of just going straight to, hey, you know, P1 to P2 is a little too inside. And it's like, okay, like I can see that too. Like that's, that's your point.

Like that's the 500 class, 400 class. But like to get to the 7, 800 class, like, okay, because of that, you need to feel this because then that makes it, my elbow go here. And it's like, you know, it of that, you need to feel this because then that makes my elbow go here. And it's all, it's like, you know, it's all cause and effect. And I think just chasing a look, you miss a lot of the cause and then the effect gets all whacked out.

So you're like, well, it's getting here. It's a yeah, but like it probably got there in the end because your elbow had to do X to make that happen. And I don't know, I mean, golf, the golf swing's ever complicated. And at the end of the day, you just have to get it in a good spot with about a foot to go before you hit the ball.

You know, we hit so many golf balls, things change here and there, your body changes here and there. And it's like a constant chase. I'm gonna, I'm gonna move on before you have to go see your sports psychologist, just just to talk to me about that. No, your sports psychologist. Just just talking to me about. No, I do.

I'm just talking to me about the golf swing, but you might need to go to a break. A break here to check in with our friends at rowback. They're back for another year. I could not be more excited about it. I'm wearing two pieces of rowback gear as I record this ad read. I've got the polo on. I've got the quarter zip on.

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or a cool evening. I love wearing them around the house. I love lounging in them. And lastly, the performance hoodies, the best hoodies I've ever worn. We've got, we can't, I would say we have them in our shop. I don't know if we do anymore because we can't keep them on the shelves. I've got them pretty much in every colorway now to this point and you see the rowback hoodies and almost all of the content that we do. And if you use code NLU at rowback.com, you get a generous 20% off your first order through the end of this week. That's code NLU at rhoback.com. You get 20% off polo's, QZips, hoodies, teas, joggers, shorts. You name it. code NLU rowback.com. Please go check them out and thank them for the support of our content.

Now back to Max Homo. So you had a huge change in your life recently and I want to put a pin in the golf side of this. We'll come back to that. But what has it been like personally, welcoming your first child into this world? It's been a while. I'll talk about your body changing.

My left arm is so strong, my back is sore. Carrying those things around is a battle. But it's been fun, man. First trip, they came on to Hawaii. It was cool. It was so different. It was so, so, so, so different. You have golf duty and then dad duty and a husband duty.

And my wife's a rock star for handling so much on her own while I'm working. But it's hard to say you're going to work when you're at Compalue. It really is in Maui. so but she was a rock star, she helped so much, but it is different, but it's been fun. I've still been able to practice a ton and get my work in, but it's exciting being home, all the cliches, you know, it distracts you from thinking about your golf swing 24-7. It distracts you from even like what we're talking about like getting ahead of

yourself and saying, man, am I going to play well in San Diego? It's like, I still think those things, but they come view and far between when you're dealing with poopy and puke all over you. You're more concerned about getting the laundry done. So it's been really fun and you know, just you have little moments, you know, he's finally, you know, he started to smile and laugh a little bit. You know, these little moments are like, damn, this is really freaking cool. And that's, you know, other than the perspective, how does it affect your golf career, right? I mean, it's, I'm not saying it makes you play better or makes you play worse, but nothing will ever be the same again. You just touched on it there of, you know, I guess if you'd asked me that 10 years ago, I'd be like, oh, PGA tour pros,

they probably just have somebody doing everything for them. And they probably doesn't change their golf game at all, but like sleep. And when you're at Kapaloo, are you guys in separate room? So you could sleep so you could go to your job the next day. How does that all work? And what have you had to change and adjust on that front? Yeah, man, we're learning, but yeah, we had separate rooms

so I can sleep as best sleep I got in forever. So we decided San Diego, rent a house so we can have space because it was nice when I'm home because it's hard to take him anywhere, right? So it's nice when we're home or back to hotel, that we're like on a couch, not sitting on a bed, not cram, this, that, whatever, but it's a learning, I mean, it might change after next week, you know, you never know, but the, you know, learning how to be tired, like Taylor Goose told me, he's like, you're gonna just learn how to function really tired.

And that doesn't mean that it's gonna be bad or good. It just is. There's the perspective benefits and the little things, like learn to be a little bit more patient. You're not the most important thing in the world. Everything does change in that. But a big part of the motivation is, I remember Tiger saying about the 19 Masters, his kids only knew golf as the thing that hurt their dad. He wanted to show

him how damn good he is. We all know, but he was a YouTuber to them. I feel that too. I want to play well long enough for him to run out onto a green and to know how good I am at this game because there's going to be a point where I'm not going to be moving so well. And maybe if he gets in the golf, he's going to out drive me. I even know that I was a lot better than he was at that time. I did have a weird running with the guy somewhat recently. We were doing a outing.

And I did the thing on the part three where I would just sit there, I meet every group coming through and hit a shot, and I just had Cam, and he goes, oh, I hear your new dad, and his son was playing with him as someone's, you know, 22, 23 years old. And I'm like, yeah, and he goes, be careful, you know, he's out driving me now.

It's gonna happen, you know, it happens faster than you think. And I was like, well, it's gonna happen, like a little later than it happened for you. Like, it's not gonna happen quite as fast he goes he goes man I said the same thing and I'm like I'm like professional I don't know what this argument your making is but it's gonna take a lot longer for him I promise I was I don't know why they be so mad. I'm like we're not the same person Such such a golf guy dad Cobbett They combination of all that.

You know, I said the same problem. I was like, okay, man, whatever. So yeah, that's what you're excited to prove that guy wrong in in in in 2020. Exactly. So you are on the pack on the PGA tour for remind me, is that a new development? I have not kept as much track.

The pack kind of comes and goes for me. And I need you to kind of explain how all that works. Aasing are called a colossal waste of time, last week, which is very, very funny to me. But what's your motivation here? What did tell us about the pack? That was really funny, by the way. So last year, I don't know if anybody,

people probably don't follow us closely, I guess, but last year this new tour formed, so a lot of the guys left. And some of those guys were on the pack. So GMAC and Brooks, when they left, they had two open spots and they asked me if I would fill one of them. So I decided I wanted to.

I haven't ever really been involved in that kind of stuff before. But I realized like this my outlook on politics. Like a lot of people complain about the things that are going on in the world or in the country at least. And they don't know a lot or they don't do a lot. And that's, you know, whatever, that's fine. But I've never I don't talk much about politics. So I don't read much about politics.

I don't know much about politics. So I don't read much about politics. I don't know much about politics. So I decided if I was going to complain about the PJ tour or fight for the PJ tour, I'd like to know what the hell is going on and have a voice in that. So what they do, the pack, I think the misunderstandings of the pack is, there's like 16 of us, I think, on the pack. And they're made up of a bunch of different levels, right? So you have like top players, like the top 10, I think they do or top 15 and it's like 15 to 30, 30 to 45 and like something like that, something stagger, there's corn fairy guys. And then there's four three or four board

members, I think. And those people in those meetings don't speak much. Their job is to listen to what we are all saying, take what we say, and then they vote on thing. So it's the five there's five players that I know this part five that are player, player directors, players that are on the board as well. That's what that's what you're saying. Yes. Yes. Yeah, player directors. Yes. So and then there's one chairman and so we've had Charlie this past year, Hoffman. And that's how it works. So that's where I was I misunderstood how that works when they would say players vote on things I'm like why do I only ever hear like these four or five guys talking about it but it's because they're the ones making decisions based off of their representing us

and that's why they want so many voices from so many levels of you know talk about perspective like the perspective of the 150th guy to the first guy can be drastically different to the corn fairy guys, you know, much different. So they they all take that information and move along with it. So after last year, I just thought I was filling in and then they we do a vote every year and I got voted back on. So gonna do that again this year, but it's interesting in those meetings. So we have those meetings then we had like the Delaware meeting and they're very similar and drastically different. You see there's a lot of people keep their mouth shut and you can tell they just internalize things and think about them. Then there's guys who talk a lot. You can tell people who have been thinking about this like for weeks and just

want to get it off their chest. It's contentious. It's all kinds of things, but at the end of the day, it's cool because you are watching the future kind of come to, like the steps of what the future is going to hold. I understand Ziggers' point about it feels like a gloss waste of time. Honestly, sometimes it does. Sometimes you feel voiceless, even though you're speaking. However, some of these things, you know, they're not a waste of time from what I've seen. It was probably felt a little bit weirder back then for Zinger just because, you know, the future of the PJ Tour wasn't as in jeopardy as it feels like it has been the last, I don't know, eight months. There wasn't competition to that. They were probably talking about things like healthcare and retirements

and stuff that, you know, there's a lot of business things that, you know, that's why I enjoy talking to Cantley about it because he looks into all these things and he seems to understand Mad McNeely does the same. So like they're the people who are both smart and well-versed in it. There's a lot of smart guys in those meetings that may not be as well-versed in it. So you can bring up a great point, but if, you know, I was looking to listen to Ram on your guys' pod today and like him saying, you know, I don't know everything about these things. It's like, yeah, that's kind of the hard part for us because there's so intricate, like I bring up a point and someone's like, yeah, but we can't do that because of XYZ. It's a cool, like that's something good to know. And it doesn't make us any less,

we're less knowledgeable than we probably want to be, but we're, we have ideas and thoughts and, you know, not so many in there, it's as smart as Mav and can't lay in some of these guys wrong, but like, you have your opinions and your thoughts or whatever, some of them aren't as feasible as others. But it's nice to, like I said, if I'm going to like think about this all the time and complain about things or whatever, vent, like I'd like it, I'd like to said if I'm gonna like think about this all the time and complain about things or whatever Vent like I'd like it. I'd like to know If some things I'm saying are just a waste of my time because they're not possible or if man Maybe people aren't really looking into it as much as maybe I'd like them to

Yeah, I've got a really back and forth on this as I've learned more about this process how it's worked How it's worked in the past. First, maybe now how it's going to work going forward. I know there was only four player directors that were board members that you can have voting representation on the board. Now it's five. So it's, you know, there's five business type folks on the board and five PGA tour players now, right?

And so just a lot of this conversation around leverage and live and all that has kind of confused me because the PGA tour is not owned, but there's not a group of owners that the players need leverage over or that there's not collective bargaining. There's not a union like the players run the tour and the realization of that has been. Let me ask that and I have another point I want to make about this, but has the realization of the power of the players been slow and now starting to be realized? Is that a fair fair point? Yeah, but then there there's so many things we can't do. So yeah, it has been, but at the end of the day, like, for example, I am somebody who was never going to leave this tour.

I'm sure there's guys who are on the fence or are on the fence. And, you know, part of their venting was because they truly were like, you know, if you don't fix this, I'm out. And some of those things are not fixable. Yeah, I guess. But so if I'm out, if I'm out there, okay, I have the power on the player, hey, you are going to make the purse bigger here. You know, I am your boss, you're going to do it and like, well, we can't we sign a deal with this and these dots don't connect. We can't do that. I'm not I, then I, what do I do? Okay, like, I got nothing there. So I think we realize our power and we probably have overstepped some things in that, at least in our own minds or maybe in our own thoughts of how

things are going to work and how easy that would be. The difficulty with not having an owner is, like, change isn't streamlined. You have to go through a bazillion different avenues to make something, make even the smallest thing change. And that is so manning, but it makes sense when someone explained it to me like that. But like we have at Whisperock, there's one guy owns it. So if there's a change, it just changes. Like it's his choice. And there's beauty that, and then there's, you know, and something like the PJ tour, that would be scary.

But so in our case, there's just so much going on that it's hard to just make everything so simple. And we always want to make it like, oh, it's just so obvious. just do this. And then, like I said, that's why I like being in the meetings, because then someone's okay. So it's not as simple as that. I wish to toward it a little, a better job. And maybe what I'll push for this year, a bit of being on the pack again. And for a longer time is like, when I, when I say, hey, I'd like this. And they say, okay, we'll look into that. And then it never comes back up. I'd like this. And they say, okay, we'll look into that. And then it never comes back up. I'd like to be told, hey, we couldn't do that because,

because I'd like to know. So then we can have a better understanding of like, how to form an idea of like what we could do going forward. But we have power in the tour. The tour treats are like that. There's times where I think people feel like we're kind of not listened to and we're kind of man yells at cloud, but in general, I think it's good. I really do think that they care and listen. I think

that they're trying to do their best to balance the top player, the middle player, the bottom player, the cornferer player, the Latino America player, the Canadian player, the sponsor of this event and the next week's event and the next week's event. The TV sponsors, Bosebia, SNNBC, like there's so many things that they have to please. Charities. That I think. Charities like there's just so much going on that we don't under like fully grasp that and I'm gonna say a lot of that is their fault. Like they have so much cross, like contamination in these deals. That's the only part that makes us nervous, I think, or me, is that like when you say something's gonna happen

and then you find out that it's really complicated, then you realize how complicated it is. It feels like it's because I'm not saying they've, they've like done anything intentionally wrong, but when you're trying to please that many people and you're grabbing, you know, all these deals in different ways through so many different businesses and organizations or whatever. It starts to get like, how do you ever change anything? Like, it's going to take years, which is fine. But in this last

year, the crisis of the PJ tour, as far as like the first time we had like serious competition, emerge, then you start to be like, oh my gosh, this was all wrong. It's like that's impossible to have like predicted in the moment. And you get kind of stuck in this like, hey, we are going to change this, but it's going to take a while. Like 24, like the schedule in 24 is going to be different than this year in 23.

And it's going to be pretty different from what I hear. So, but you know, a lot of guys wanted that to happen this year, but they just can't. Like these things just, they happen to, they can't happen that fast. And that's the part I think it's players, not businessmen, just golfers, that we probably feel this power. And we say, you're gonna do this and it's like, we can't. And then it's like, all right, well, now I'm stuck. So part of it is probably, like I said, man screams a cloud and we get a little bit

to up in arms about it. Well, and every time I chance I get to make this point of like remembering what the rival league here, what they, the rules they play under and how different they are when your business needs to make financial sense. Like, yeah, I want to play for this amount of money. It's like, okay, well, the revenue is this.

Like, I can't do anything about that. We don't have a Saudi prince paying the, you know, the person's of these things. That's where it gets complicated. But I think- Yeah, it's not like a typical startup. Like, they've kind of been using the startup word. Yeah.

And I mean, it's different than that. It's not, you can literally build what you want it to be. And I think some that what people have said about like what we're doing or how I've kind of framed this change is if you had to build the tour right now, but it looked like it did this past season. Like if it was fresh from zero and I would say no. I know. Even, but it's like even this year and even next year. It's not the same. Yeah, it wouldn't be the same, but it's like it has been going even next year. It's not the same. Yeah, it wouldn't be the same But it's like it has been going on this long. It's been successful and there are parameters

We have to like live under So we can't just make it exactly how we'd like it at this point like there's so much has gone on that makes a difference so part of the startup that's difficult is like the finances of it and funding of it And you know a lot of guys like you know clothing companies or or club companies have this great idea Hey, I'm gonna do this. This is the best idea when they start running the business like well those numbers don't work And then you're like oh, well, that's why we do it. They do it like this over here in this case all the money You can actually kind of do what you want to do the amount of hard cameras they have down on the grounds and these events is incredible and of course I wish we could do that but you just can't on tour that's a part of why I think the tour is getting creative and like

the entertainment aspect and trying to change things over the next year or two. I feel like somebody's been screaming from the top of their lungs for many years that the entertainment aspect needed to change on this front. I wasn't allowed to listen to this because you guys were with calories. So I'm late catching up on all that. So we're recording this on Friday, January 20th. It's gonna come out next week. So we're gonna have a Sunday pod

that's gonna come out in between that. And I plan to say this on the Sunday pod, which you may have already heard before if you're listening to this. But it's kind of dawned on me though, like talking to Ram to a point I wish I would have made out loud a long time ago in that the leverage part of the conversation, it's not like the players were coming to the PGA tour management and saying, hey, do this and they were like, no, all right,

well, do this. No, do this. No. Yeah. It wasn't that the players needed leverage over management at the tour. It's that top players needed more leverage over average to mediocre players on the PGA tour. Like just by a numbers game, they are, they were badly outnumbered. Now, I don't want to put you in a tough spot on this, but you have risen into this top tier. But you've been a representative of other tiers as well when you've been throughout the ranks of professional golf. And look, if without the threat of live, if the top so many players in the game went to the rest of the tour and they're like, Hey, by the way, we're going to play for like double the money and in these events that would have not gone very well. I don't think whereas now it is viewed as a true existential threat.

And it's like, Hey, PJ Tours got a change. No matter what has to change status quo goes out the window. That makes it what possible slash way easier for you guys to push through the changes that are in the process of being pushed through. What's your reaction to any of that? Yeah, I mean, obviously it's like one of those sticky subjects. What the tour does great is everybody on our tours treated equally and it's looked at as an equal part of it. The difficulty is I know right now that if Rory McElroy, Justin Thomas, and Jordan Speaf leave tomorrow, we are all like every single one of us. Their entertainment value is so high, wrong. Just those like top five guys we have that bring in so much attention. That's a big deal and it's not even just leave if they're unhappy, we are in trouble if they decide to play less tournaments, if they decide to do whatever. Like that is taking money out of our pockets

to take an eyeballs off of us and on our games. It changes so much. And so yeah, basically, there's a handful of guys who carry a ton of weight entertainment-wise. But the tour does a great job of, hey, I know you guys do that. But we have to treat everybody the same because that is what this product is like built on and what the organization's built on. I love that.

And I think that those guys that we have up there understand that, but they also, again, why the pack has people in each sector of the game is they want to hear what Braw and Rory and Justin and Jordan have to say about things because that does matter a lot. And the sticky part is it matters exactly as much as it does for like the 180th die on tour, which I have been. But it matters more in just in just a way right now where it's like dude there's there's another place that is playing golf. And I don't think anybody's running off to leave just because, you know, daddy didn't give them their cookie, but like, I think that the way that word leverage gets thrown around now, it does feel like that

in a little way, and that's a scary part. So yeah, there's a few guys that definitely carry weight. We all listen when they speak. I don't think that they're doing it in a malicious bad way, but now that kind of kind of cats out the bag and people are doing this, it's like, hey, if you've got an idea at the top and you say it, I mean, of those guys say, if it's not feasible and if it's a great idea, I'm hoping that they are taking it seriously. But yeah, I mean, you can just feel the kind of awkward tension in that

because when somebody says something, you wouldn't say of like of higher power, I guess it's like, you know, yeah, we kinda like, I feel like as a player, I want to accommodate that. The reason I'm, I find my perspective on this interesting, obviously I'm very biased about this, but I've seen like every avenue of this, I finished 241 year, I finished 171 year, I finished, you know, the top 70, the other years. So I've seen it all and I've, I've trying, not trying.

I've kept my same opinions about these things, entertainment-wise, since all those years. So when I bring things up and if somebody doesn't like it or complains about something not, not that I've said, but that I believe in and they complain about that. I try my damnedest now that I'm on this pack to talk to them or message them and say, what would you like them to do differently?

And I'll present that, but also, like, here's my thinking. And like, because I do feel like I have that side of it, I get that side of it. But like I said, there has to be some thought of, like, if three to five, ten of these guys weren't here, we would be in a very weird spot entertainment wise to the consumer. That's how we make a living, man. The way I said last time I was on this spot, I think. If you're the best golfer in the world and no one's watching you, you're just somebody telling everybody you're the best golfer in the world. And that's a tricky spot to be in.

It's endlessly fascinating, man. It's wild to watch it all play out in real time. It's hard to react to every single week, but as it starts to crystallize, it's wild to watch it all play out in real time. And it's hard to react to every single week, but as it starts to crystallize, it just starts to make more and more sense kind of the direction. And again, I think people maybe don't quite have a full grasp. I don't have a full grasp. I don't even know if you have a full grasp

of how different things might be next year. I mean, it's going to be, it really is going to be a whole new look PGA Tora. As much as this live PGA petty thing, it's got gone on, and I'm not saying I wasn't part of something like that, but as much as it's gone on and been chaotic, it's like, it has slowed down now, which is nice, because it honestly did get old after a month.

But what the noise, the outside noise of people saying, you guys should be thinking, live everyday because you're making more money. And like, this is just my personal opinion. I was good with what we made. It's cool that we make more money. But what I'm excited about because of what live has, like, competition is good for business.

Is I'm glad that now the tour is paying attention, or maybe not paying attention. I'm sure they were paying attention before, but I'm glad the tour now feels like that urgency to adjust how the product is being displayed. Yes. I can't like, I don't think I can tell you what it's going to be, but I've been working with Pazder who's one of the main tour officials on like entertainment side of like professionals and you know, the broadcasters to make it more interesting. And like they're just ideas and we're gonna put one

into effect soon and see how it goes. And I'm not saying it's the best idea in the world, but like. Try stuff. Like we're trying. And like, and it's cool that they let me help with this in a way as like a added voice and the idea, because I can give the perspective of, hey, here's why players won't want to do this.

Let's try this and like here and then they come back with what we can do. And we're going to try some stuff and it may be better. So that's been the cool part about this craziness of the last six to eight months is, yeah, money, whatever, but I want golf to be great for the fans because I am a fan of the game. And I want people to keep watching golf both selfishly and just as another one of them. So I'm glad about those advancements. I'm glad people are kind of voicing their opinion on, hey, you know, if you want more money, this is how we are going to make more money. And if you want people to watch you play golf more, this is how you're going to have to,

you know, you're going to have to bend a little bit here and there. And we're seeing it with the scheduling. You know, we're seeing with these nine designated events, like, change is coming. And I think it's all great for like the consumer of the game. That's where I'm starting to tend to laugh when people call us PGA tour dick riders because it's been like truly no one has probably been harder on them over the years than us. And like almost everything that we care about in some way has at least in somewhat marginally improved

and sometimes drastically improved, right? Maybe volume of commercials probably still has not. But even so far in this year, it feels like just feels a little less, that the century felt a little less, which is all you really ask for as a viewer. And so, you know, if we keep like at least, yeah, this thing, you know, I we keep like at least, this thing, you

know, I've been very against live because I think it could be horrible for the golf world. If it's really fractured, I think you guys have retained enough talent that it's not going to be horrible. I don't think that. And if it means you guys take the steps to improve some of the things you're exactly talking about, then PJ Tore could come out the other side being even stronger of it, which I would not have said. Yeah. If you go back to June, I would have thought I thought things were going to end up way worse for the tour than they currently look. And yeah, I were always going to have people coming in the pipeline and the thing I'm excited about for the coverage as I'm with you as I, you know, I don't have a voice on this

weekly, but like the coverage can stink at times. But what I think this new, at least for the designated events, if you have like the top 50 players in the world, or you know, I guess we don't have top 50, but 40 of the top 50 players in the world or whatever, and each of those nine events, you can show more like quote unquote meaningless golf shots, like a 20th place golf shot from like,

on the rare occasion that Matt Fitzpatrick is not in the mix, or Ram is not in the mix or JT is not in the mix and you can just flash to them and say here's you know Matt Fitzpatrick and a seven iron on 15 and he hits it to 18 to 30 feet and it's like well that was the best shot I've ever seen. It's like yep but you want to watch Matt Fitzpatrick is one of the best players in the world major champion and it's like oh wow we're just, you can dump just regular golf shots where I just think that they've been scared to do that with like the quote unquote average golfer because they don't think that the fans have a care in the world about that which some probably don't but some do. But they've been scared to do that now they have this freedom of hey, this a very recognizable top name golfer who's won a major. Everyone roots for this guy, weekend and week out, and we can just show where he's at.

And don't need it to be the greatest thing in the world, doesn't need to be a whole lot. Bunkershot doesn't need to be one of those things where, oh, now we're going over to 15. He's like, ah, you made a home one. Like, we all know you made a home one because why are you showing this? He's in 30 second place.

You know that. I think they're going to have freedom to do that. I hope they do it, but, I mean, I've hoped a lot of things and it hasn't exactly worked out, but that's my viewpoint on how even just this scheduling stuff can can improve the fans, I guess, treatment. Well, and another thing too is alternative media. I just, I'll give you an example for the NFL. Like I've since I've live in a broad and coming back, it's been like hard to get back

into other sports because they just fell off completely right but like I've Been seeing some stuff lately on NFL like I've watched this great ringer video about the Jaguars Fourth and one calls that they made against the Chargers in week three and what they made you know gets the Chargers last week in the wild card game And like the difference is in similarities. No, it's like holy shit man Like I want to sign up for subscription right now to take in all the information I can Because I've been watching a lot more football now lately and like now I want to have a better understanding of everything that's going on there where that's been really difficult is there's I think there's been an obvious incredible rise in alternative golf media around

this game yet you funnel it into a archaic and dated broadcast and there's nowhere to go like I there's nowhere there's nothing to like take away. Because you're just watching like a highlight show like you just talked about and there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere, there's nothing to take away because you're just watching a highlight show. You just talked about, right? There's no extra layer to it at all. We need a man in cast. That's one idea. Something like a man in cast.

There's something like that where you could get inside the mind a bit more of the player so that when they come through, when the leaders come through or whatever, you're like, hey, this is not the first time I've seen the 13-polatory pines. There's some understanding of that and I think that's what these other sports have done a better job of and we have been incredibly late on that or not even late, we haven't done it yet. late on that or not even late we haven't done it yet. So hopefully they start doing something like that where there would be different.

Like areas of entertainment options where you could get more and it's not you know, necessarily just more shots it's just more understanding learn. Here's the one that I've I've said a few times but probably don't bring up enough NFL films has done sounds of the game for how long? Where, you know, it comes out during the week, but it's audio between the players and the coaches, and it's edited, and it's not gonna get anybody canceled, and it's a look back. It doesn't need to be day up. Doesn't need to be live, but like CDLAM, consoling Brett Mayer, the kicker who missed four PATs, just going up to him like, we got you, bro.

Like I got you, like that. Just, now when I go watch the Cowboys game, I've got a whole another layer, who missed four PATs just going up to him like, we got you bro. Like I got you. Like that. Now when I go watch the Cowboys game, I've got a whole another layer. And they've been doing that forever. And it's freaking incredible. And it just adds to be the most valuable league. And it's just stuff like that that I, you know,

the tour seems to be starting to understand. They let us freaking film at Kapalua. The grand it was not tournament week. It was pre tournament week. They didn't really have to let us. They put they, you know, they didn't get in the way of that at all. And like that is an additive thing. We got a ton of great feedback from people that said they were looking forward to watching

it and the doors should support that kind of content. What we've been screaming from the rooftops for years. And if things are changing, I think it, you know, I think it could be great for us. They're definitely going in the right direction. They're going the right direction. I can't promise it's going to be great or soon, but they are going that way. That does have me at least encouraged. All right. We got some questions. We got sent in, but we also got presidents cup. We didn't really fully debrief with you from the president's cup. I feel like I was a pretty decent experience

for you. I don't really, you really know where to you came on briefly already pretty inebriated after going for no after winning your singles match as well. But anything anything surprised you about that experience or anything that that sticks out to you as far as you know what that week was like. One moment sticks out in a weird way. I can't remember because I was inebriated if I told you guys this part or not. But so I play the first day and you're so jacked up. I might could not have been more jacked up and play the first match and it was so much fun. Goes down to the last hole, me and Tony and we could virtually come up when one up. Then we get or maybe yeah, one or two up and then we get to the next morning and we have a.

No, sorry, then the next day we have, oh, was it the next day? How does this thing work? See Thursday matches. Yeah, yeah, so the next day we, yeah, the next day we have the best ball, some playing with Billy. And I was pretty tired.

And just from like the first day jitters and everything and it was weird, I got to the course and I had a normal warm up. I didn't feel that nervous. Like I felt like it had all gone away. All the excitement had rushed away and I didn't feel that jacked up anymore and I'm like, fam, like maybe I over-height this, maybe I built it up in my head too much. Maybe this was, you know, this on me. And so we go around playing and I'm kind of, I'm playing fine and we hadn't made any big cuts or anything, but we were like, we're up early and then back to square and then this, that, whatever.

But like, I just didn't feel like the rush, but I felt like, you know, we were playing good. And I still knew that it mattered, but I was like, trying my hardest, but I felt like a golf tournament. And it's not supposed to, it's supposed to feel like crazy. So all of a sudden it gets pretty close. And I think we were like square one down or one up, something like that. It got really tight because I thought we were going gonna run away with it the way we started off. And we're on the normal 17, which was number 14.

And I had shipped up and I had like a tricky like seven or eight footer and Billy had like 14 feet for par to have the whole. And I'm standing there and he makes the putt. And honest, I honestly got out of nowhere.'t know where I just like yell like fist pump yelled and it came out of nowhere and that was so cool for me because I'm like, okay, it is in there like I'm tired. Part of this is just a me thing like I was I was a bit worn out from Fortinet straight to there and I was like, this is awesome because I wasn't thinking about fist pumping. I wasn't like overly anxious like none of it. And it just came out of me. The crowd noise behind me.

Watch and Billy walk it in like all of it was so sick. And that's when I was like, okay, this is different. Like it's all built up and JT and I had a cool moment that after that day. Because that's where I finished birdie birdie and did the cool thing. You know, I've done on a golf course. That's where I finished birdie birdie and did the coolest thing. You know, I've done on a golf course. And we were riding to the press thing in a cart

and he was like, he basically said it perfectly. He's like, listen, he's like, how cool is that? I said, it's a cool thing I could ever imagine. He goes, he goes, it's so different than like a major. He goes, obviously majors are so much, you know, more important for our standing in the game to win. Because there's something about this that is just more fun.

Like it's just you can be a cocky asshole, you can do the dumb shushing, you can do all this dumb stuff you would never do and have fun and play like a kid and just try to win, like win for your team. You know, a half a point matters. A point obviously is a big deal. And I don't know, man, it was, that was special. Like everything I had built up on my head, I'm so thankful, like it met or exceeded that as far as like the energy went.

And the crowds bring most of that. When we came out there Saturday morning for the 36th whole day, and I was playing at like 730, I'm just pitch black when I got there. And was like it was cold, I was exhausted and I'm putting and I mean I'm on a low as far as energy goes and I'm putting Mormon up and I was the last match with Tony I think and all of a sudden I think Johnson Wagner I heard started the We Believe chant on the first tee which is right by the practice green and I hadn't even hit ball yet so I go put you know chip hit and then put again so I was just on the first part of that and they by the practice green. And that hadn't even hit ball yet. So I go put, you know, chip hit and then put it again.

So I was just on the first part of that. And they started it. And I could not believe how many freaking people were there already, like at 650 in the morning. And I was like, holy cow. So the crowds bring a lot of that energy. It would be cool to play in a Ryder Cup, you know, overseas where we aren't on the benefiting side of that.

But hearing all of, I mean, that was the crowds make it. And the team chemistry makes it. And I was very thankful to be a part of that team with these guys, so I really have always, you know, gotten along with and looked up to their golf games. So to play well and compete with them was cool, man. God, Rome's going to be incredible. Take us to take us to that, that 18th green that you match the the whole scene. You know exactly what I'm I'm talking about take us to the scenario there's some great pieces in the golf magazine piece talking about what Joe said to you before before Taylor Pendress put it all that but how many times have you gone back and watched that and take us back to that scene. I honestly I don't I don't tend to watch very many of my past shots or anything like

that I would rather watch other people hit cool shots. But I've watched that putt probably like 2000. I don't even remember half of it, man. I remember the lead up to it. I just remember all day. I played really well. Obviously playing well going into it. I played great the day before and I was playing really well.

I hadn't really made anything. Billy kept kind of coming up to me on the back nine, being like, you're going to make a putt. It's going to go in soon. I just kept hitting it to 20 feet, which out there is great. And I was kind of felt like I was jokingly and not jokingly. I was kind of the buoy of the group. Billy was kind of scrambling and get,

he got up and out from everywhere. And I just had these free runs from 20 feet all day. And I never really made one. But, and I just felt like I was kind of like steady eddy, which was good, but for better ball, you know, you're not like, I wasn't like doing a, nothing happened. Joe would even brought up, he goes, God, it sucks.

We haven't had a moment, it's like fist pump yet, because Tony got to hit so many of the putts in the alternate shot because I was hitting all the iron shot. So it's like, I never really had like my moment. And then that's what we joke about all the time, because in low and behold, we have two back to back holes. So I finally hold a putt on 17 and, you know, got to like have that moment and 18

yeah I couldn't have felt more comfortable as a back right pan I love to cut it it was a mid to long iron I love those and they had stacked one in there pretty close pen dreaded so I was like this is it like you know I felt really comfortable with my golf game so I hit a really beautiful cut six iron back there and then we're on the green and I'm nervous and And this word Joe, this is why Joe is the best. And I would argue the best caddy out there is because I'm sitting there on the green and we're not talking obviously. And I know like the worst we're possibly going to do is have.

And like I'm not like, I'm not going to say I'm stressed. But like, you know, I'm hoping we win this match. You know, Billy and I fought really hard on that back nine to kind of like fight them off a little bit. I'm sitting there and the day prior I had a putt, so that would have been cool to make and just to give me crap back, because I left it short, because all we need it was two but so when, but I wanted to make it ball-ball. So I'm sitting there, I'm like, I have a chance to make it, I was like, I, you know, hopefully pendulum kind of misses

and I get, you know, it'll be over. I just get the two point from 12 feet. And Joe Littery came out from behind me whisper in my era We want him to make this so you can make it right on top of them And I it like gave me a chills when he said it cuz I'm like fuck yeah, we do like it just changed my whole Perspector and now I'm like sitting there rooting for Taylor to make that putt So when it went in I started to smile like there's no camera. I started to smile cuz I'm like I'm like I'm gonna break their heart right now like that that's what you do. Like that in my, in my mind, that's what you do these things for, especially in the team thing. You want, you want somebody to hit the shot of their life and you do it better. Like that's just

what you want. And he played a beautiful hole. You know, obviously a beautiful, dry, beautiful second shot and made a great poem, a really hard hole. And I'm sitting there with a 10 to 12 feet, where I can just rip, you know, rip that right out of like their soul in a way. And I'm over this pot. And you know, ever since Aim Pointing and stuff, like there's certain parts that have one, one type of break, or you know, a single degree of break. And that's what I had. So when it starts online, I can now know if it's going to go in or not. So that's why I watch the video so many times because I start walking way too early. It was sick.

And went fucking bananas. Like I don't remember a lot of it. That's like, I remember chess, but I remember Joe being kind of scared to just bump me back. It was perfect because I truly do. I love all those dudes on my team. They are awesome people. They're great teammates.

And, but just get, especially, like, I'm really close with Colin. So to have him right there, Sam right there, JT there, and then get to turn around a hug, Billy. I don't know. It meant a lot to me just to be a part of that team, but to like contribute to the team. That was, I don't know, man.

You're with the best golfers on the planet, and they're all like celebrating you. It just feels incredible. That's why I said I tweeted something along the lines of like you can't get that anywhere else like home game. You're the only match left out there. Both teams all around that green sun setting a 12 footer that you knew the read and before it even like got to the whole you knew it was it. I mean, you took less time on that putt too. It was amazing how fast it all went.

It was like, oh, this, he's got this putt. Like, this is going in and it just poor. That's a beauty. Aim for it in a way for me is like, people talk about it, slow people down, which it does some, but like when you, when you get the feel of it and you're kind of in it, like the reads are fast and I think I makes me putt better because I'm not thinking about the read. I'm not looking at every blade of grass. Like I know in my head what it's going to do. Tony really set me up for the day before because we're walking out like 16. He

goes, how fun is this dude? Like this the greatest thing ever. And I was like, I was glad he felt that way because I felt that way, but he's done it so many times. And he goes, the best part is dude is we're the last group. And we're going to become, we might be coming on 18, last group every single person going to be watching us, which it was, it did come down to 18. So then the next day, obviously, I didn't have Tony with me. I had Billy, but I was like, thinking that I'm hell, like, this pretty damn cool. I got every single person all eyeballs on me and Billy's match and to come up, come out on top was cool. But it's like a lot of, so much of that is like the preparation of other people

saying great things. Joe, Tony, Billy Billy all these guys kind of in my hair You're gonna make a pot hey? We wanted to make this pot Tony like this is so cool everyone's gonna be here instead of making it like Something that's a negative kind of like all man like we're last match out because when we went out for last on Thursday I was like dang that stinks like we don't get to lead the charge and then Tony being like no, dude This is the cool part like we're the anchor? I'm like, oh, that's sweet. Could Vince be that aim point shouldn't be banned? I hate it. I hate watching it.

Why? I actually was gonna ask this. Why do you think it should be banned? It's just, I feel like people straddling lines. And that's, so I hate anything you can't do as part of your process while other people are playing, right? Like if other people are in their routine, you can't be doing part of your process while other people are playing, right? Like if other people are in their routine, you can't be doing aim point probably.

And unless it's totally opposite side of the whole, but I have to say, if somebody else is putting in your group, you can start to get your read from the other side of the whole out of the way, right? Unless you're in their eye line. Well, see, I don't know enough about aim point, I guess, but it just, I can't, when they cut. No, I'll say if you're in the eye line,

if I'm reading the putt from behind the hole and you're cutting towards me, I need to get the hell out of the way. So I'm gonna be in your way anyways. Right, but I just, when they cut to somebody and they got a three footer in your face in the hole and then you turn back around, it just seems like I feel like being able to feel

your line with your feet seems just a little bit like adjacent to the rules to me, right? And I just don't, I don't love it. And I'm willing to be talked off this, but I have a feeling I would love it if I actually understood it, but I don't want to be, I don't want to be a point guy. I'll make my pitch to you. If you, I mean, if you're stuck in that, if you need to do, if it's one, if it's a blanket statement, if I can't, if you can't do something while another person's playing, then you're right.

I can't straddle my line. I had a putt this year that Bill or Tommy, a hero, was going to stand. We both do aim point. And Tommy was going to be standing on my line. So he was like, do you want to go first? And I said, no, because if he went second, I couldn't go through my aim point process. So he like joked with me after because he was, did you really not want to do it? So you could put your feet down.

I said, yeah, because I didn't want to stand anywhere near his line. So that's definitely a valid point. I don't know how that would be against the rules. I'm neither. I said, you could change it. If you're saying that using feel in golf is bad, that blows my mind.

The fact that we should only be able to use our eyes, I mean, we go play Augusta, you play Coppola and such those two places is your h crazy lies and stances are your feet, way below your lies and we take practic our hips are going to move

out on that club and we the feeling of the ground comes closer to like test right? Then like feeling stance, I think is different than like straddling your line of play. That's kind of, I'm out of rules expert also. So like, who knows, who really cares what I think? But there's something to like your line of play.

Like you can't fix ball marks and stuff in your line if you're off the green, right? If the ball mark is off the green. Yes, you can. No, if you're off the green. Oh, it's off the green. Yeah. Well, here, here, here, quick to make here. When you go in a bunker, should you not be allowed to wiggle your feet in the sand if you have deep it is? It's not kind of one of those things that like you're technically not supposed to be feeling the surface of that through that. Like you can, like everyone digs into the sand and like gets information from it, but if you you cannot intentionally do that, correct? For sure, but you are and I'm walking around. I'm walking on a firm service. I'm not testing

a service. I'm just feeling break. That's like all you're doing. It would be the same thing as like post them was on Colt and Drew's pod the other day and he was talking about how he's a field putter and he doesn't really think he ever like starts it Next day right on line of where he's aimed but he can feel when he's standing there the break and like he'll manipulate and just make the ball go on the Holy one of the best putters are seen so that's like a field thing to me and part of that is in his feet so just because of where I'm standing If we're going through rules things I'm more out on like Metal spikes than I am standing near your own line.

I step in my line pretty much every time I hit this putt, so I technically make it like worse on myself. But it's like, to me, it's the ultimate feel. The fact that we were allowed greensbooks is a sh- is a crime. Like that makes no sense. That's just using math. But in this case, I'm using my feet to feel break, which is like the same to me as feeling a lie in the fairway. Okay, well, we can agree to disagree then. That's fine. That's fine.

I think it I I love to see a study keep going on, missing parts. If I could be a reassure that it doesn't slow things down, I think I would and maybe it doesn't, but it certainly does appear that way at times on television. But anyways, got some questions I want to get to because we put a call out for this on the refuge. We've addressed some of these already in here. But from the mass hacker, he wanted to the best tip or habit you picked up from any teammates at the president's cup. There was no like Kobe moments, right?

If like, oh shit, Kobe's in the gym at four o'clock in the morning here. Like we got to get that figured out. Uh, no, but I will go actually was going to go to that a little bit. The regiment of people. Yeah. I guess isn't something I learned, but it's something that reestablished like to like validated is every day everyone's plan was the exact same and you did the same damn thing every

morning and everyone had it very dialed. Like it was very specific. It was very monitored and like I don't know. I don't think everybody looked at that presence cup the same way I did as a first timer and someone who was looking like so looking forward to it I'm sure not everybody was quite as excited as me but every single person went out there like a pro and treated it like it was and watching how they go through their process was again not a learning thing but it was like a validation thing of like, okay, yes, this is how we do this.

Like this is how we work. Hmm, interesting. Purp ATL, do you have any idea why you didn't make the cut for a full featured episode on full swing on the Netflix documentary? Apparently, there's this going around of who the individual episodes are about, but it does not appear you made it. Yeah. I get I probably just wasn't as forthcoming maybe with my time. I know they gave me like a two days heads up notice that they wanted to come to my

house which was a little bit blind-sighting as far as like the amount of time I had then to clear my day and clean my house. Also it could just been that everybody else's was a lot more interesting than mine. I keep telling people they keep asking are you gonna be in it? I said I'm sure I'm in the background of some things, but with all that went on in the in the game of golf this year, if my big moments, I know that they filmed a lot when I was in LA, if my big moment was me hugging my family that I hadn't seen a little bit, that would be bad for the show, bad sign for the show. So I don't know, I'm sure. I wish they would have followed like, you know, the the chase for the president's cuckseys. I thought that would have been a cool story, but maybe they'll do that with the rider cuff this I don't know, I'm sure I'll, I wish they would have followed like, you know, the chase for the president's cup. So I thought that would have been a cool story,

but maybe they'll do that with the writer cup this year. But yeah, I don't know. I wasn't, I'm not really disappointed that I'm not honestly because as Lacey brought up, it'll be cool to see how it looks first. So we know, you know, like I know Joel's in it a lot. And I'm sure it's great, but looking at yourself on TV sometimes can be kind of scary. So I'm gonna let him. I'm gonna let him be the guinea pig on this and see how it turns out, but I think they they got a lot of great stories. I know the the saw his steps great. I know the Joel steps great. And then they have, you know, a lot of the live stuff as well, but I think DJ and Brooks and Carlos maybe. So that'll be really cool. Poulter. Poulter, yeah.

So they'll have a lot of, like, I think, you know, interest was probably a big thing. I didn't really, not that interesting. I go home and I think about golf. Hello, friends. This will be your last question. Hello, friends, said your favorite show on CW. Oh, man.

Seventh heaven was a banger back in the day. I don't know that's still on there. Man, good for them, I guess. Yeah, we shall see. I don't, in the world of this pettiness, I don't know why YouTube was a good way to watch it. It was. That was I liked.

Yeah. So the fact that we're like, good for viewers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's great.

The fact we're high stepping around like this is like the greatest thing ever I don't get. Like I think they're doing a good job. I don't like being told how good of a job they're doing. That part just gets old. So the CW thing is funny for jokes means whatever. But like I don't think it's the big change. And I don't think that means it in a negative way either. I like the YouTube thing. It got made fun of just like the CW. Could you imagine if we had never been on TV before and went to CVS and you're like, oh, the same thing that plays law and order or whatever goes on it? Like it's all

like channels don't matter. So I like the YouTube thing personally. It's easy. But I guess I don't know. Golf is for or is broadcast to more of an older generation. So maybe they don't haven't like picked up on that yet. But I mean, I think something I saw some like 2.4 billion people use YouTube every day. So it seems like it was a great device. I enjoyed it. So I'm curious to see what it looks like now. So it seems like it was a great device. I enjoyed it. So I'm curious to see what it looks like now but I just the making fun of it and The high stepping mix that's the parts I'm getting over like that's the parts that's kind of waned my

Interest in any of it like I don't want to be a part of it anymore as far as like the the back of words I don't I only want to make jokes about it jokes about it anymore. Like it's dead to me, because you're gonna get one person telling you how great it is, and one person telling you how much of a joke it is. And like I said, I thought they were doing a great job. I liked watching it. Like it was completely fine.

It was not hard to watch on YouTube. So. This is just a thing. I'll have the CW app, but. I will probably not be doing that, but maybe one of my friends will. All right, Max.

We're going to let you go, man. Thank you. As always, for your generous donation of your time, this was a enlightening conversation, as it always is. Didn't even get to everything I had on my list, but it's Friday night and I got to let you. I got to let you get back to your fatherly duty. So thanks so much for your time, and we'll definitely be catching up with you soon. Yeah, thank you.

Me and Cam. Gotta go hit the bars. So thank you for getting me out of here on time. You're welcome to your space. It's going to be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about it? That is better than most.

Better than most. Better than most.