No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 643: Full Swing Recap with Chris Ryan

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

The Netflix golf series "Full Swing" is here. We're joined by Chris Ryan from The Ringer for a deep dive into all aspects of the first season of the show. We explore the origins of Full Swing and how it compares to Drive to Survive and other sports documentary television, the crafting of the show's episodes, the coverage of LIV's emergence, and a breakdown of what worked and what didn't in each episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. It is called full swing and we have watched it all and we are going to talk a lot about it TC is here to bring the heat as usual good afternoon TC Hello, is it a hit? Do we know it's a hit? It just came out today. It's a H-I-I-T like it. There's a lot of workout stuff in it

That kind of that kind of hit that's the voice of DJ pie. Hello DJ pie. Hey, sorry. Thanks for having me and welcoming in The strategy here was someone that you know, we've heard we've all heard talk about a lot of different things on a lot of different platforms, mostly related to TV and film over the years, who's also kind of a golf sicko adjacent, but I would say outside of our golf weirdo echo chamber, if you will, to kind of help us guide the discussion on reaction to this series from the ringer, Mr. Chris Ryan. Welcome to the show for the first time. Guys, thanks so much for having me. I can't wait to talk about Bridgerton with you. It's been really tough to find an outlet for my thoughts, but this seems like the appropriate venue. I want to first, I want to get to your background

here in a second, Chris. But first, I give a shout out to a sponsor that I'm so excited to work with and so excited shout out. Surf pro is the number one brand in cleanup and restoration. It is known for making any mess like it. It could never even happen. Listen, guys, you never want to have to be using surf pro, but I've had to use surf pro or my family, family adjacent has had to use surf pro two times in the last four years. Let me tell you, when you need them, they are there for you and it is extremely helpful.

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I was like, you know, I just don't think there's no way you think it's gonna go. The Beyonce's terrible. It's like straight up, we're music sucks. That is our first deviation off course of many in this episode. But Chris, kind of tell us a little bit about your background and how you found yourself here today. Oh, well, so I work at the ringer. I'm the editorial

director over there, which essentially means I'm on a lot of podcasts at this point. And I've been working with Bill Simmons since Grantland days back in like 2011. I joined Grantland, like really, when it started and was originally a soccer columnist there, and then was living in New York and was was writing about the premier league for Bill, but also obviously like was pretty big basketball fan, and always had like a really deep passion for movies and TV. My father was a film critic, so I kind of had that in the house growing up. And then as the years went on and as I moved out to LA to work at Greatland as an editor, my buddy Andy Greenwald wound up becoming

the TV critic for Grantland and we started a podcast called Hollywood Perspectus there. That was, you know, we were essentially still doing that one today, it's called The Watch Now at The Ringer and we've been doing that for about 10 years and when Bill left ESPN was asked to leave whatever I went with him. And we started the ranger,

and we've been doing it ever since. Since about 2015 is when we started the company I went live in 16 and yeah, quarter by Spotify in 2020. So a lot of roller coaster moves there, but it's been really fun. And so now I do the watch. I do the rewatchables with Bill.

I do the big picture a lot with Sean Fennestine and Amanda Dobbins. So a lot of movie and TV, when I moved the watch, I do the rewatchables with Bill. I do the big picture a lot with Sean Fennissine, Amanda Dobbins. So a lot of movie and TV. When I moved out here, I became to Los Angeles. My buddies and I were looking for stuff to do that took advantage of California. And since we lived on the east side and getting to the beaches, basically,

it's easier to drive to the Grand Canyon, we started golfing. And we all became pre-corrupted by it and just absolutely addicted. Then I got really into watching Golf YouTube and listening to Golf Podcasts, like No Laying Up, which became a real staple of my listening rotation every week with Trapped Draw 2. Yeah. I would describe myself as obsessed with the game, not very good, and then fascinated

by the mechanics of like the larger golf medium. So real hamstered in head is what I'm trying to say. As a listener to the rewatchables for many years, I've this, having you here is a bit of a heat check because I'm just kind of like, oh yeah, super bad. I guess kind of a fun movie. All this, I've been hearing all the 10 minutes like stuff I'd never even would have thought of as it comes to how it is all put together.

Also, as a good heat check for me for this episode, it's like not to get too serious on the film critique here because we kind of, I would say you may not say it, but an expert in kind of pop culture, if you will. So that's kind of our reasoning for asking you to join here today. But we have so much to talk about. Don't really know where to start.

We're gonna get into some details of the individual episodes a bit later on, but I'm gonna turn over to Mr. Pyman. He wrote something that we put up today on nolangup.com, kind of his overall reaction to it. I think he's had a lot of time to download all of his thoughts on it and reaction to it. And I'm just gonna kick it over to you, DJ,

to get the conversation started. Well, please feel free to jump in or offer continued heat checks on any of this stuff. But I think that where I'm coming from is we probably don't need to set it up too much. I think if you're listening to this podcast, you know what it is. It's eight episodes, it's Netflix, it's based on Drive to Survive. It's the same production company that may drive to survive. A lot of people probably know it's definitely listeners to this podcast.

Know the title wave that was Drive to Survive and watched a lot of American probably know, it's definitely listeners to this podcast, know the title wave that was drive to survive and watched a lot of American dipshits get very involved. In it, much like ourselves, got obsessed with F1 and the way I kind of put it in the piece, indirectly I guess, was almost kind of go from like a zero to a seven in the fan affinity scale. I think I started out kind of not knowing which way the cars drove on the track. And then a year later, I was setting alarms to watch races in Saudi Arabia and joining fantasy leagues and, you know, researching tire strategies and all of those things. And so

entire strategies and all of those things. And so Drive to Survive for me was kind of the the perfect example of how this model can work. And I think there's a lot of drive like F1 specific reasons for that. And I think the thought, and again, this is probably well-worn territory at this point, but the thought is like, what if we did that for golf, right? And I think the whole time we were watching Drive to Surv survive, it was like, man, this is what golf needs. Get us out of, you know, the telecast, get us into some of these players lives, show us who these people are. And I think that what I found watching full swing for the first time and

watching all eight episodes and really thinking about it was, man, I kind of miss a lot of the hardcore golf stuff. And that was a thing that, I think that the easiest reaction to that is going to be like, well, this isn't for hardcore fans, this is for, to get new people into the game. And I'm very curious what you guys think the efficacy of that is going to be because I found it

when you take the golf away from the golfers, the golfers are maybe not the most interesting people in the world. And I think F1 is just a very different ball of wax, right? You have sexy locations and fast cars and team drama and people willing to be bitchy on camera. And it's just, it's more like a soap opera, right? Then anything, and I think golf that what I kind of realized as I was like writing my thoughts out is like, that's never really like the bargain for golf. Golf is supposed to be relatable.

It's supposed to be, you're supposed to feel like you're watching yourself out there, except if you were like a world-class talent, right? You can relate to Jordan's spieth because he's not a freak athlete, at least he doesn't look like one. He's fairly polished, he kind of speaks in the same way as a lot of people who watch golf. And I think when you, again, you strip away like the things that make Jordan's beef, Jordan's beef,

what's left over is like not the most interesting guy in the world. And so that was kind of the long way of saying, I think that was my big takeaway was, you know, I know maybe this isn't for me as a hardcore fan, but I also, I wonder if it's for anyone else as well. And does it accomplish that being for the masses thing is I think a question that we can all discuss and I don't think we can answer yet.

Totally. And maybe I'll throw that to Chris to start because Chris, Chris watches a lot of TV. I truly don't know we can answer yet. Totally. And maybe I'll throw that to Chris to start because Chris watches a lot of TV. I truly don't know how to do it. I don't know if you do it on the podcast 2X speed that you're watching these shows. I don't know what you're doing. We can take that answer offline.

But I think maybe the one more overarching point that I'll make before we really get into it is like, when you're trying to appeal to everyone Suddenly you have to compete with everything and that's Chris I think why immediately I was like oh man, we should talk to Chris about this because Full swing has a lot of really nice moments There's a lot of content being put out that has some nice moments right now and suddenly you're competing with You know, it's not just like would you like to watch this golf content or this golf content?

Because I think full swing is the top of the heap as far as golf content is concerned. But it's not really the bargain that we're talking about. It's like, would you like to watch these kind of boring golfers or would you like to watch the last of us? Or basketball or go to your kid's soccer game? Or read a book?

Or like, you're suddenly competing with everything. So that's a lot. I'll shut up for a while, but Chris, I'm curious what of that resonates with you, what you agree with, disagree with. And our experience with Formula One is pretty well documented here and drive to survive. And if you have any of that,

you'd like to, you know, kind of shiny light into, I'd be curious on that. It's the same thing where I had no idea. Like I never really continued with it after drives to survive season one because I can't make time for another European-based sport in my schedule. It's like, now that that's happening, I can't also make space at three in the morning to start watching Grand Prix. But I completely understand what you're saying where it's like, you go into it, you're blind. You maybe have some familiarity with like Lewis Hamilton or some of the companies, but you don't really go into it

with any other like, you don't know about these like mechanics, you don't know about the technical directors or whatever. And then you just get immersed in this world. And that is actually what the best television does is it's like this full immersion. Like I don't know if you guys watched Andor, the Star Wars show that was on at the end of last year, but you could watch that as a Star Wars freak or as a complete newbie, and you would be like, I feel like I am watching a

fully realized and actualized piece of art, right? And like I can touch it, I can feel it, I can think about it, I can sense it. And that's what I think, Dej, what you're reacting to with full swing is like the surface level of it. And that's not an uncommon sensation with a lot of Netflix shows. I don't know, and we'll probably get into some of the mechanics of it being on Netflix, it being bingeable, a lot of that stuff, but this show kind of reminded me of Darko's, if I'm being completely honest, where it's like, it's a subject that I'm interested in.

Yeah, I see that coming. No, it's like, it's a subject that I'm interested in. The delivery mechanism is incredibly easy to use. You're sitting there and they's like, it's a subject that I'm interested in. The delivery mechanism is incredibly easy to use. You're sitting there and they're like, in 1980s, Reagan made Columbia, the front line of the drug war. And you're like, yeah, he did, I know. And then it was like, and the front line of the front line

was Medi-E and he'm like, take me there. All right, man, cool. And like you just keep watching it. And it's, you have this sense that you've almost seen it before. You know, like you've, you kind of almost are having this kind of like, well, you're, you're going over well-trot ground. But it's really pleasant. Like you find yourself then like on season two or season three or season four. I don't even know if I like this show that I just watched the full swing show.

I, but if you told me there was 45 more episodes to watch over the next couple of weeks, I would definitely watch them. Like, so what does that say about the product and what does that say about me? I don't know. Chris, do you watch golf on TV? I do. Like certain tournaments like Rive, I'll probably try it and especially since I'm just, I don't have anything else to do. I'll definitely watch like all, all four rounds and my buddies and I will text throughout it and stuff like that. And then the majors and, and every once in a while, I'll just sort of like look at Twitter and be like somebody's on a heater or that leaderboard looks really sick. So I'll go in. So it's not, it's not an article of faith, but I try to watch it a lot, I think.

I think something I thought of as I finished this series and I have this question in my mind, is drive to survive actually good or is formula one good? And I don't know the answer to that yet because I feel like for me, and I'm just gonna use a scale of one to 10 on this, let's pretend that drive to survive is a 10 out of 10 on an entertainment scale. Yet, as you mentioned DJ,

a lot of the entertainment aspects of racing fit very well. Like one of the things that hit me really hard, the first episode of Driver Survive I Watch was the surround sound of the race cars rounding corners and the immersive impact that show had on that sport. I felt like I was inside the cars. It brought you there. It was top gun almost, right? This is where I think taking that model and going like,

let's say if Drive to Survive is a 10 out of 10, taking that model to a sport that's not nearly as exciting, the same, the sounds are so completely different that if you're trying to make it loud and immersive, it doesn't really fit with golf. At best, you've limited yourself. If you nail all of the content aspects of it, you've limited yourself to it being like 80% is good, right? At the absolute best, if you nail all of the content aspects of it, you've limited yourself to it being like 80% is good, right? At the absolute best, if you get everything right, just with the subjects being so totally different. And that's kind of how I felt about Breakpoint, the tennis series as well, it was like,

all right, these are, these are player profile pieces, more than it is a story about golf or a story about racing. And I kind of walked away feeling like, it's like very gray feeling. I think there's a lot of good in it. There's a lot of stuff to react to. A lot of news, a lot of stuff that like, as a heavy, heavy follower of golf I learned about,

I have a different perspective on. It was additive in a lot of ways, yet a lot of the things that fell very short. So my color grading on this is gray. It's not black and white. It does not suck. It does not rule. It is very short. So my, my, like, color grading on this is gray. It's not black and white. It does not suck. It does not rule. It is very gray. And I'm also viewing that with a benefit of the doubt lens of, like, knowing that this is for not necessarily for me. T.C. I think something else that, like, drive the survive did well was you felt like there was a

sense of place, regardless of where they were in the world. If they're in, you know, Austin for the circuit of the Americas, or they're in Monaco, or they're in Sochi, like you feel like you're, you're kind of parachuting into that race or into that locale. If you asked me, if I had never seen golf before and I had no idea what the PGA tour schedule looked like, I would think that Tulsa is like the center of the golf world. So much. How many times they went back there, like more so than St.

Andrews or Augusta or anywhere like that. And I, you know, and then there were the random drop-ins in Detroit and Minnesota to where I just didn't feel like there was any sort of context to where like they, they went out of their way to explain like, hey, you know, golf's 18 holes. Here's how the cut works like I didn't mind any of that stuff I think that's necessary if you are trying to attract new fans and explain how things work But at the end of the day like I didn't think there was no context as far as how the ecosystem works or You know like like hey, there's there's 48 tournaments a year. Here's why the majors are special. Here's, here's like, like, like, I would have gotten to, uh, F eight and been like, wait,

what the fuck is the FedEx cup? Like, is this the Super Bowl? Like, yeah. And Rory competing in like, what is maybe the greatest, like, most anticipated and one of the greatest golf tournaments we've all ever watched, like, with everything going on in the world of golf, it was just kind of like, nah, it's more about the FedEx cup. It's like, yeah, I don't. And I want to be clear too. Like, there was some worry amongst fans in general of like the PGA tour over sanitizing this, just being involved. I felt none of that, by the way. I did not feel like anything that held this series back in any way was the fault of PGA tour whitewashing in any way. I think some of the stars and people involved may have, like, not given the producers

all that they could have. I think that is an issue that we can talk about. The only episode I felt like that was on episode eight, though, where it felt like there were maybe some make goods with FedEx or with the playoffs or like, you know, some of the, like the golf pass and the golf plus thing in there, that it's like, all right, like maybe Rory said, I'm not doing this. Unless you give me the golf pass spot here. There's, you know, a couple like weird sequences there, but no, like I was very, like I thought it was going to be essentially a big, you know, like a very

extended version of inside the PGA tour. And it felt, you know, much more immersive than that. Tron, did you, did you happen to see Welcome to Rexham at all? Have you watched any of that? I have not. No, it's on my list though. I don't watch a whole lot of TV, so I'm kind of like, like, I got to make it count. So you're like, Christa, watch eight different screens all right? You guys are, yeah. It's not the Matrix. It's just like when I don't like something, I just stop watching it, I'll listen immediately. Welcome to Rexham for people who don't know is the show that's on FX.

You can see it on Hulu. And it's Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhani bought a lower league English football club. The Rexham is the name of the club. And then DocuSeries is about them trying to like put some money into the club and revive the town around the club and bring it up through the pyramid

system of English football. I know a lot about English football, but you watch the show and it does a really creative, nice job of being like, there's promotion and relegation. This is where this town is located in England. The thing that they do that's so great is they give you this incredible sense of place. Like you know, not only where rexam in relation to other big cities, England and all this other stuff, but like you know what the main street looks like. You know where people go to the pub, you know where people go to the other chips, you know where people live in relationships to the stadium.

And you're right, Tron, like there's some weird flatness to full swing where you're just like, so wait, it goes open championship but then back to Tulsa but then this, depending on but then this depending on who we're focusing on, but there's no sense of a narrative of the season. And the crazy thing is that that last season had so many incredible narratives that if you were going to, if you were going to take any golf year aside from maybe a tiger year to introduce somebody to the sport, you would take last year. And I wanted to ask you about this because it seems like to me it was

decided long before February when they started filming or whenever that was was like here, we're doing like player profile pieces, right? Like that's this is what the blueprint is for this way. You know, we're going to we're going to shoot more than what's actually gets actually it's published. We're going to see what ends up playing out. Like I don't think if Matt's, Matt Fitzpatrick doesn't win the US open.

I don't think he gets heavily featured in this, right? But you got some stuff goes to the cutting room floor, but that was like their strategy, right? And I would openly say, like again, like this worked in Formula One when you had Gunther Steiner and you had, you know, Christian Horner and you had frickin' the spice, his spice girl wife and like the interesting characters that bring it all, the ecosystem all together,

whereas they relied so heavily on the players. I lit up when like 20 feet, I was dad is on the screen, right? Or saw his dad is on the screen and they're walking you through that. Mike Thomas. Mike Thomas was great. Geno Benelli, but when they finally dug into player caddy relationships, that was that was the part that you know, I it just felt like it was way a little bit, maybe a bit too heavy on the golfers and again to DJ, like DJ has said, like, they're just like not that interesting, you know, it's, and part of what makes them interesting is their crash, right? And like, like, I think one of the things that that driver survived

and well was it, it brought you up to the baseline instead of stooping down to, you know, the lowest common denominator, where, let's say somebody, why was there no discussion of what is more a cow is struggling with? What's holding him back this year versus the previous year? Let's talk a little bit about nuts and bolts. Is it pudding? Is it driving? Is it ball striking like, get into some of the procedures or some of the substance of what makes golf golf instead of just glossing everything over and just telling me how hard it is to win on the PGA tour over and over and over. And I've, I thought about that TC and I thought about that with racing when I'm watching

the driver survive to I'm like, dude, tell me why this guy is better than the other guy. They don't do it. That's where I'm like, dude, they probably don't do a great job of that either. And some, F1 junkies don't love to survive as well, right? So totally. And I know they jump around season, you know, like, like, season wise, so stuff isn't chronological. And like, I get that there's a need to do that. And it's not going to fit all, all cleanly narrative wise. But I do think in drive to survive, like, if, you know, if Haas is struggling with a certain strategy or Ferrari is struggling with their new engine, like there if, you know, if Haas is struggling with a certain strategy or Ferrari is struggling

with their new engine, like there's, there's such talk of that, right? There's, there's a little bit of, of substance and detail that you can kind of dig in on. The, the Haas episodes in Dr. J. Survive are not like, well, they're not doing great, but they're really trying hard. It's like, look at, he's, look at this clown show that's going on. And like, that's why you, that's why you love it so much. But I think this is the last time I'll kind of, you know, I don't want to wear this territory out. But if it felt like they've really hit on the,

like, we're going to ignore a lot of this golf procedural stuff at the benefit of all of these new fans. Like I would totally understand it. And I would totally take my hands off the steering wheel here. But like watching it with Justine, she watched, you know, an episode and a half and it's just like, yeah, I got like other shit to do. Like this is like, well, I'm good on this. And like that's, I would be shocked if that's not like the overall sentiment.

Like I think it's just going to be a lot of like kind of polite in difference from, from a lot of people. And I don't know if you guys feel that way or not, but each one question it's bugging me how do you land on seven for like a zero through seven as far as golf are they rating? Yeah, what do I think I said one to 10, but like f1 I became a zero to a seven. So I appreciate that. I would be happy to show my work if I if I was got there. I do do wanna go back to what you guys were saying about the flattening of the season, which I totally agree with,

but I think it also speaks to, like golf is fucked up in, and this is kind of like my whole point is, it's so hard to explain this to somebody because it's so complicated. So Chris, if you've never watched golf and I'm sitting you down to say, all right, you say,

hey, what's pro golf? I'm like, well, okay. There's 300 players that might play in a tournament. You don't really know who's gonna be at each one because they kind of make their decisions as they go. There's really like five governing bodies that all kind of own the tournaments. The PJ Tour is kind of the most visible.

They don't own any of the biggest events. The Masters is super closed off. The open is like a totally different thing over in England and you'd Scotland and whatever. And then, you know, there's a cut that's kind of confusing. And then, you know, the only events that really matter are the majors, but like they're trying to make this Fattix Cup fit.

Like it's just the more you say it, the more you're just like, this is so impossible to explain, which is again, where I'm kind of like, do you just get it? I would just push back about that because I feel like the NBA is that too. Like if I tried to explain the NBA to my life, if I was like, here's the story of the NBA, this season, she would be like, you could stop talking like it, because I would just be like, well, then there's this whole thing

with bird rights. And then Aussie, all like, they were hard caps, so then this happened and then Kevin Durant tweeted this. But then the whole thing is that nobody really tries to make a regular season. Yeah, exactly. There's a buyout market and like she would just be like forget this. But like I think that I think at least the NBA has like you play 82 games and then there's a playoff and then there's a chip and then you start trying. Yeah, right. But maybe the NFL, the reason why the NFL has such a supremacy and the sort of mind share of, especially the American sports fan is like, it's kind of easy to understand.

They play on Sundays, like you got to win. The four quarterbacks are really good. Everybody wants one of them. Like, it just kind of makes sense. And that's that maybe is part of like the issue that every other sport is having competing with the NFL And I think that's where I get to with golf O is is just as you just hear like the last three minutes of this podcast And like all these people trying to solve for that. It's like well Maybe like I know this is not the answer you guys want

But like maybe golf is just like not meant to be that big and trying to fit it into this box of like no No, no, no, if we make the right show, then like everybody's going to be obsessed with it. It's like, well, here's 655 reasons why, like that's probably not going to happen. And that's okay. Like just lean into like what it is and make it as good as possible. But I know that's, that's an oversimplification too. And we've been screaming that from the rooftops ever since this was announced was like, hey, wait a second here. When Formula One came out with Drive to Survive, it was a part of the puzzle with a grand scheme to grow their audience. And one of those things being when you flip on a race, there's no interruptions when you flip that race on. And like, it is an immersive experience. You can't get up and the announcers are so good at explaining

the tire strategy and what's going on here. And it's like, your first race, you can kind of figure out what's going on pretty quickly. Like, all right, teach me what DRS is. That's kind of bullshit. But whatever you get there really quickly. And I can't, I just, I, I, I, again, this is not the series fault. But I think it has been viewed for so long and you wrote about this, as this savior of the sport, like look at, look at what it did for me. The one it's going to do it for golf.

And I like do. A monorail situation. Wait a second here, guys, like the entertainment aspect. And we've again, I've been, you were, you're a listener of this podcast. Chris, how long have we been screaming about this of like it is fallen way short and it is not a simple fix to address all of your problems? I think it's a positive. You said this again in your piece, it is a net positive overall, but it is, it is, at times it feels like this was looked to as the solution and they looked at the result of the formula one one instead of understanding

the individual aspects of what made it interesting. And I also want to give the benefit of the doubt that you know, maybe this was kind of a prove it year also like this is such a massive departure from the way that everything in golf works and this has to run counter to everybody's opinions of what we should be doing and why would we authentically show who these people are? That's a horrible idea. Like that's basically how golf has operated the last, you know, like I said in the piece, I don't know, 300 years. And so if they needed to take a season to say, hey, maybe let's just get some easy wins. Let's keep players happy. Let's keep agents happy. Let's keep tournaments happy.

Let's keep the tour happy. Like I get all of that and I respect that and whatever. And maybe season two will be totally different. And maybe they'll lean in more on, you know, hey, we kind of explained a lot of this in season one. So let's get it a little deeper into some of the golf stuff. And I think that's's that would be great. Which they should because, you know, if it's not going to hold the casuals attention, that's like, but it's still worth doing, then get deeper into it. Because I thought some of the most, you know, endearing engaging parts of it were some of the behind the scenes footage that God or some of the crowd shots they had in

in Boston or at St. Andrews or you know, there's there's stuff in there that's like there's really redeeming stuff. I think net net like we're talking all about this, but I think net net like it's it's gray area, but it is a positive like it's a positive for the sport. I'm happy they produced it all that, but like there was a spot net one where like Jordan Jordan wins the heritage and then like they're putting the red plaid jacket on with all these white dudes and straw hats stand up behind it and like if I had never seen golf before I'd be like You know what it's funny is like I think solidarity you're it's kind of in this gray area point Today, I was recommending it to somebody where somebody asked me if it was any good. And I was like, yeah, yeah, it's okay.

But they were like, oh, it sounds like not. And I was like, well, if I were you, I'd watch episode two for sure. And you know, at three and four are also pretty good. And then also six and then eight is worried. And I was just like, wait, I just recommended three-quarters of the show. So when you step away from it, you're like, oh, I'm really glad

I saw the Brooks in the Seaheith part and the Joel episode is amazing. And then I was like, oh wait a second, is this a good show? And I'm just, a lot of this is just about hangups about what it could have been for a psycho like myself. And I think for you guys, I would imagine, have you been girding yourselves for this? Before you watch this greeners, have you been like, fuck man,

like the whole thing is about to change right now. The paradigm is about to shift. And then so maybe there's a little bit of an anti climax. Yeah, there's just been breathless hype for the last six months about this. That oh my god, they're capturing all this for, you know, and it's like just like, I would say slow play it and don't, you know, and don't do all this breathless hype for even the last month or so. It's like the people that produced it. It's like, I get that you want it to be a success,

but people are going to watch it whether you hype it or not. It's just like the people in your ecosystem are going to hype it, whether you, whether you hype it or not, like just, just put it out. Let people react to it. I think it's hard when it's, it's been very, very hyped in our golf ecosystem. And also our reaction is kind of like, well, it's not really for us, right? So it's it's it's been heavily sold to us yet almost with the caveat of like, Hey, you got to let some of this stuff go of, you know, it's not really for you. It's like, well, okay, let's it's don't sell it to me. Like I'm going to watch it one way or the other. So it's tough to bear that.

It reminds me, Chris, you ever see that movie, Fan Boys, The Star Wars movie? Sure, yeah. It reminds me a little bit of that, where the whole premise of the movie's like they're trying to break into the Lucas Ranch to steal episode one, and then episode one finally comes out and right before the fan needs to black, there's like, wait, what if it sucks?

And it was a little bit of that feeling, I think for the last couple of weeks. But I think you're spot on, Chris, and solid, you were saying a little bit of this before we got started, too. And that like my initial reaction to it was kind of anti-climax, right? last couple of weeks, but I think you're spot on Chris and, and solid, you were saying a little bit of this before we got started to. And that like my initial reaction to it was kind of anti climax, right? And a little bit of it's like, Oh, okay, that was, you know, that was fine. And then the more I thought about it, the more I was like, Oh, that part was cool.

That part was cool. Okay. Maybe this is adding up and, Oh, this is cool. And maybe I'd watch this again, which I think is interesting from like a golf fan perspective. And that's why I think in my piece, again, try and go back to my proprietary scale. I think it would take people from a three to a five or from a five to a seven or whatever. I think my overarching point though, it's just like, is this interesting enough to move anybody off of a zero? And I'm not totally sure about that because that's where I start to get nails on the chalkboard where it's like,

oh, no, no, no, this isn't for you, this isn't for you, this isn't for you. I'm like, well, I don't know if it's for those people either, but I guess we'll see, but I think overall, I'm with you guys, happy they made it, a lot of good stuff to take away, and I think it sets up well for season two, which they're already making. It's not like this is kind of like make or break,

like if people like it will keep doing it, like they're already making season two. So I think there's, yeah, I think there's a lot of good stuff they can still, they can still pull on. So I'm excited to see where it goes. And what another huge disclaimer is like, I can see this from my way. There's a lot of cooks in the kitchen

when it comes to making a lot of these and producers and leagues and agents and individual tournaments that have blah, blah and you know I do wonder what all of our reactions would have been if Kepp Kett was episode one If I would have set a better tone for the expectations. I think I had a lot of issues. But can we talk? Yeah. Can we talk about that decision because there was the great like that GQ piece I think it was GQ or Vanity Fair or something that that came out they were following basically like kind of fly on the wall In the production.

And and there was that nugget in there that like they wanted Brooks to be episode one. And people were finding it to like dour and depressing. So they moved. I think it would be like it would be a completely different tenor of this conversation. Really? I'm sure this and Brooks was first. Yeah. You would be like, I'm watching a Cassavetes movie.

I cannot believe that they got this guy's marriage on film. This is unreal. Like, is this gonna be what happens for the right? And I think then if it's Jordan and Justin and then the couple of, you know, all these other episodes, yeah, maybe you come down to Earth a little bit, but that Brooks episode, like honestly kept me watching. I probably I would have watched anyway,

but the Brooks episode, I was like, holy shit, you guys got this. Yeah. Like this guy was like, honestly, kept me watching. I probably I would have watched anyway. But the Brooks episode, I was like, holy shit, you guys got this. Yeah. This guy was like. What is so perfect for like both setting up like so many different themes within it, the live theme, you know, all this other stuff, whereas like I didn't feel a single thing

after the first episode. And it's two guys that I liked. Like, you know, one of them was my favorite, like one of my favorite golfers out there. So I think this is one of those things where it's. Time out, Greller. Yeah, Greller wasn't even in it, you know? Like I truly think it's,

you almost have to just judge each of the eight episodes on their own merit. Like it's like eight different, you know, singular features. And I think there's a lot of people out there I've read some of the reaction online just on our message board and on Twitter. And if you throw golf on some sexy cameras and some editing and some music and some storytelling,

like a lot of people aren't gonna think of it past that, right? And this is maybe part of the story that I wish I knew less about how it all comes together and like how overwhelming it can be when you have captured a shitload of good stuff, like trying to piece it together into like a cohesive story can be when you have captured a shitload of good stuff, like trying to piece it together into a cohesive story can be really challenging.

And I honestly think the Netflix, like the people that involved with all this probably ended up with too much good stuff. And that's how they end up with, all right, we're gonna pop into this Jordan's Beef commercial for 60 seconds. It's not really gonna tell part of the story, but this is kind of a cool part here.

So it's gotta go in and then this has to go in. Well, we can't, can't leave that on the cutting room floor. We have that. And it just kind of stutters and stumbles through through some of that stuff. Whereas again, there's just so many different ways it could have gone. And that's, again, this is like just personal taste. But if we're getting into JT first episode, and again, maybe bones didn't want to participate or maybe it was not part of the deal. But like, bones is on Phil Mickelson's back for 25 years. And now he's on JT's. And bones had a very critical role in talking him out of a bad mood on Saturday before he went, made the greatest comeback in golf history into that Sunday. And just that's

not really there at all. That that's something that like, I think, again, will, will relate to a casual viewer watching it more than like, hey, these guys are friends and all that. That's something that like I think again, we'll relate to a casual viewer watching it more than like, hey, these guys are friends and all that. So again, that's where it gets a little critique and probably not the most, not, not man enough. People tune in to hear that kind of thing, but that's kind of the lens at which at least I'm viewing it through and contend to view it through. I was watching these and there's a, I mean, this is by no means sponsor content, but I sometimes try to apply the 30 for 30 rule against stuff that I'm watching where it's like you say what if I told you and then the next thing you say like would you watch it right so you apply that to these episodes. This gets down to what you were talking about with these being profile pieces like what if I told you Justin and Jordan were friends is just not interesting. Like, you know what I mean? Like that's something that like that's like scrolling

past something on Instagram level. Interesting. That's not what if I told you what if I told you one of the best golfers of his generation might not be good at golf anymore. Like yes, would watch. Yes. And my absolute competitive structure of golf because yeah. And his grappling with that. And like is is also like having that show up in his home and in his head. Like that's awesome. But for a lot of these episodes, the what if I told you test like it fails. Now, if you had inverted it and made it more stuff like how do you conduct a comeback in a tournament? What happens when you lose your confidence? What happens when you have an equipment change or something like that? Like there are all these little like nitty-gritty details that I think that even the average golf fan, like the once a month golfer, the I watch the majors golf fan, I think

is a lot more fluent in golf than we probably given them credit to. What do you guys always say is just like stop insulting the intelligence, the audience. Like there is a huge hunger for an intelligent discourse about this. And like if anything golf needs that level of analytics, they need like the Tony Romos and the like the people who are just like, I'm talking in playbook here. Like I'm talking in like AP golf and and and you know, I like a lot of golf commentators, but like you don't feel like that comes across in the in the televised product often.

That that there is an opportunity to do that in the show. And I think that they went more for human interest. And that, that is, that is like an understandable note to give is just like, this is about making connections with people, but like, man, they, there are some really interesting stuff that like they, they glance past or they'll show for a second and then just be like, yeah, never mind, like we got to go to this. And I would love to, I would love to see like, I don't know, not that necessarily the directors cut of this, but I would love to see like an open source.

Like here's all the raw footage. Like let's let five people assemble this show and what it would be like. Dude, it's been so frustrating to sit there and be like, if we turn DJ loose on this footage, oh my God. They would, but I hate like viewing everything through that lens as well, but like I, I, that's exactly how I felt. Sorry, DJ. I forgot how good some of these shots were.

Like I watched all these tournaments and I was just like, holy shit, like that's an angle I hadn't seen before. Like some of the shots that Rory hit at St. Andrews or, I mean, shit, even like some of the stuff from, from waste management, where, you know, Brooks is shipping from Pac-Off the green or Sahid hits that, that, that, that, you know, pre-war hybrid. And you're defense. You know, pre-war hybrid. So you may not have forgotten that. It might have been funky editing of this, this, this shot was with this ball lay a dig

at this spot because there's a lot of that going on. But again, that's part of storytelling. I think to your point, Chris, that is a really good way of, I think, saying what I'm trying to scratch at as far as like making golf more of the focus is exactly those kinds of things where you can almost use a lot of these guys and this is like putting it very brutally, but that are that are pretty interchangeable. And I would go all the way up to someone like Scotty Schffler, honestly, we just talked about that in the Phoenix episode and Scotty's incredible and he's the number one player

in the world and love watching him play golf. I think we learned from his episode too that that wasn't everybody's favorite part of that episode with him trying different ice coffees. But I think like that work, it's like the caramel. That works, the caramel one. The juxtaposition works.

Yes. A lot for me. That was that was a way of presenting that to make it interesting. I'm like, yeah, I'm worried about coffee and Brooks is worried about his golf swing while Jenna is talking like that worked for me. Yes, I agree with that. But I think like using some of these guys, almost more like avatars for some of these concepts that you're talking about, Chris, how to how to stage a comeback, how to rebuild your swing, how to change caddies. Like you could almost come up with like subjects and concepts like that rather than just like where did methods Patrick go to school. You

know, like that kind of stuff, I think, is not great. But but I think you can kind of like flex that human interest muscle when it's there, right? Like I wouldn't have changed a beat of the Joel Damon episode. Like that was, that was great. You don't need to do that there. With the game, Joel obviously like was opened to the process. Yeah, right. So his Brooks, to his credit, you know what I mean?

Like I don't know if Brooks is gonna, if this is gonna be his favorite piece of television culture of all time when he sees it, but you know what? Like I honestly have a lot more empathy for Brooks than I did before I saw it. It's real and he let you in to like, dude, I can't fucking find my game. And like, here I am hitting puts and like, I used to be the best at this. I was the best in the world. I took, I've made notes of highlights from every episode. I have six highlights from episode one and I have 18 from episode two.

Like, it was, it was that different. And I, I watched a lot of this with Hannah, my wife, and kind of she she knows golf better than the average person, but it was really interesting to view it through her lens because I kind of tipped her into a little part. I was like, you know what would be, because she's like, golf, you know, and Rory says this in there and I don't know if that's kind of, you know, kind of pushed on him to narrate this part of it, but the difference between the best players in the world is it's all mental. And I was like, it's really not.

Like it's not. It's a lot of talent. And I was like, how interesting, a little bit of info on, again, this is going to sound like the exact opposite of what you should do for a mass audience, a little bit on track man. Explain to me how a clubface being one degree close versus the versus one degree open would affect the margins of where golf has decided, right?

Just introduce that, right? When you have JT working on the range and he's doing all this stuff, that was really good. And JT being like, I fucking hate that, man, like looking at his swing, like that's kind of the stuff of watching people like work on their craft and understand the inputs, adds a different layer than just like, yeah, it's just mental. Like, only thing holding Joel back is like, yeah, he's just not confident like Joe only holding Joel back is like, yeah, you just like confident enough It's like no, like he's not as talented like it's just like that's and me like they like they kind of hint at that stuff a little bit Like they hit at it with

Fienaou traveling with his family versus not traveling with this Some of the Fitzpatrick stuff with with analytics like they hit at that stuff or Joel It's like all right Joel's playing a different golf course than Dustin Johnson, you know? And it's like, how, like, how does that affect his round? What, like, Joel's hitting legitimately just different clubs into holes than some of the longest players in the world. Here's how that affects his round. Here's how that puts more stress on these areas of his game.

It's like, instead of telling me over and over and over again, how hard golf is and how good these guys aren't, like, do a little bit more to show me. Instead of just saying, he's got one of them. He's got one to win. He's got one to win. Major. And the dent, that's why you play the game. They want to win.

But I think, I think one more kind of small little thing on, on that note is like they had a lot of great talking heads in there and Dylan and Henny and Amanda and all these people like I, I, are great to have in there, but when you're just kind of turning them into a little bit of like expository ventriloquist dummies, right, of just like first say this line, okay, now repeat this line back, repeat this line back. Like, you're not gonna get a lot of that, like in, in, not even inflammatory, but just a shred of opinion.

Just, just get me a little bit like, do some of the heavy lifting for me by like, you know, making, making some of this a little bit first person. And the fact that they didn't, I'm sure those people said things that just didn't get in, but the edits were just very like a golf tournament 72 holes. And it's like, well, no, but like Dylan, you're out there all the time. Like what do you have to say about this person? What makes this unique? Yeah, I bucks into that a little bit. Yeah, season two. Bucks and always added that little little bit of, you know, color. I'd be stunned if I didn't improve on that in season two, right? Yeah, I

definitely thought this show was overnarrated. And I don't know whether that was a lack of confidence in people understanding basic tenants and story beats of the year of golf, which is totally understandable. But even within that, if you even if you give them that, there are often, like Dylan will say something and then Amanda will literally say the same thing. That's like one single. Instead of letting somebody have.

And I was just kind of like, guys, come on, man, like, like, I'm watching. You got my money. Like I'm already on episode three here. Like, obviously, I'm pretty into this, like, like concept, like you don't have to, like, walk me to water here. Like just, just just splash me a little bit. Like, and so I wonder if that's like concept, like you don't have to like walk me to water here, like just just just splash me a little bit. Like and so I wonder if that's like a, that felt almost like a fix it in post kind of thing. And maybe that that comes down to a sliding amount of candor or availability on the part of the players,

you know what I mean? Because I mean, you guys would obviously know this better than me and I don't know that we would ever really find out. But like, it felt to me, like Justin and Jordan were like, we'll do this. And this is what we're going to do when we do it. You're going to see us on a PJ. We'll have a funny joke about a wedding.

And then like, there's like a nice story about our childhoods or whatever. Like, brooks, see, like, like, there's a couple in there that like, you're like, oh man, this guy didn't know what he signed up for, which is really when you're feeling, I'm flying without a net, this is incredible. But for the most part, I think guys had a pretty tight grip on the wheel when it came to how they were being depicted. And I wonder if they felt like they needed to go in

and fill in everything in between with some pretty Wikipedia-e narration. Well, and it's also, it is really, really, really hard to like have to fake authentic conversation when there's boom my guy, camera here, camera here, camera here. All right, hold on. We're rolling and sound ready. Go. All right, you guys, talk about your chances at the upcoming US Open.

And it just, like these guys aren't actors. Like it's not easy to do. I have sympathy kind of towards that part of the process in terms of, you know, you know, the JT like phone call, JT Jordan like phone call conversation, which is kind of like, all right, well, we're gonna film on both sides like, call each other and talk about the best man's speech.

Like it's just, it's hard to do. I, it's really, really hard to fake. I'm before we get to the next, T.C., I'm going to hold you. You go with this next point as soon as we do that. I've no, I've been on hold for this for 15 minutes. We got to get it. We got to get a shout to rowback in here. Hold that exact thought because I'm not even going to prompt you on the question. Rowback is back for another year. We could not be more exciting to fit the feel, the quality. It is

perfect. T.C. He's got the quartersip on you. You know I got my hoodie on. You know I got it on. We love their gear. We cannot almost cannot play around of golf with that. I don't go a day without wearing something and rub back their performance. Polos they fit way better than typical boxy polos. The collar never loses its shape. Four-way stretches soft. It's comfortable. I wear them all the time on the golf course and out to casual dinners. The performance quarter zips are exceptional quality. They're so versatile. You can wear them on the golf course and out to casual dinners. The performance course is hips are exceptional quality. They're so versatile. You can wear them on the golf course are perfect for the morning, not too hot, not too cold, perfect for the evenings, perfect to set outside on your patio. I'm very much enjoying QZIP SE and here in

Florida. It's not that much longer before it starts getting really hot here. And lastly, the performance hoodies are the absolute go to when I wake up in the morning. You sometimes I'll wear them for two consecutive days, not even realize that the most comfortable hoodies we've ever worn, you can wear them for two consecutive days and not even realize it, though the most comfortable hoodies we've ever worn. You can wear them on the golf course as well. They got so many different color styles.

You can go to rowback.com and use code NLU for 20% off your first order through the end of this week. That's rhobac.com, 20% off polo's, QZips, hoodies and teas with code NLU at rowback.com. Pick it up, TC. Where were you? I think just going to episode one, like talking about some of the specifics here, probably a good segue of like, I felt like they totally mischaracterized Jordan and Justin's relationship, too, of like, you know, like the name of the episode is frenemies.

It doesn't, it doesn't like capture any, any semblance of what their relationship is about, or what most of these guys relationships are about. And then like just just a gloss over the fact that Jordan's been in the wilderness for the last four years, like after all the nice things they said about his game growing up and in college and in beaten JT and all that, like they could have done such a better job of setting the table for yeah, like and now JT is, is the guy and Jordan's struggling for it. And it just like that just set a bad tone on my mouth. And then in

there too, it's, it said, I think Dylan said, it's not like anything we've ever seen in sports before. And I'm like, like, yes, it is the same, so the same shit happened in like cricket, bass fishing, darts, USFL, like all sorts of stuff. Like there's all sorts of examples of like breakaway, you know, leagues and things. It's like, you know, you're trying to bring people from other sports into this. Don't act like this has never happened in any of those other sports before. Do we want to do a macro live assessment? Or you want to just get into that on the, I kind of one last, no comment that I don't know where I'm going to shoehorn this in was the, it felt like it's, this is probably

the maybe the meanest thing I'll say about it. It felt like chat GBT generated like the script for this thing at times. It felt like a, the ones, the episodes that didn't have the real stuff, it just kind of felt like AI kind of came up with this concept and shot the footage and generated in there. It's kind of just like didn't feel like it totally had the human touch when their subjects didn't really give it to them. At times, I definitely felt opposite of that, but in some episodes, I'm just kind of like, I feel like this is a computer-generated, kind of something that got pushed onto us. So, this kind of goes back to the Netflix thing that I was mentioning earlier, which is

us. So that this kind of goes back to the Netflix thing that I was mentioning earlier, which is Netflix is obviously they actually had a pretty interesting changing of the guard in the television department of Netflix a couple of years ago, where this woman, Bella Bajaria, who was responsible for kind of the more the kind of Flores lava type programming that you might see on Netflix had risen to power. And the person who was more responsible for the like orange is the new black house of cards era was gone. There was a massive massive profile about her right? Yeah, the New Yorker did a really long great profile about her and she's obviously an incredibly savvy executive and Netflix is now making more stuff for more people in the world than

any television network ever has in the history of like television. But I think solid that thing you're saying where it's like sometimes it feels like this is being made by an AI for an AI version of me. And we're in the metaverse watching TV quote unquote is how it feels when you like watch one true crime show on there. And then you're like, yeah, that's weird. There's five more I can watch. That was insane. Click. That was about, uh, you were talking about this on your pod the other day. I feel like there are maybe a couple weeks ago, but like, yeah, it's just, it's the formula is you, you get a bunch of like moody drone shots. You get a couple primary interviews and you're pretty much 90% of the way there. Yeah, and saying stuff like we're trying to say with like, this has never happened in sports.

It's like every crime is like, it's unlike anything we'd ever seen. It's like, honestly, it's based on the Netflix shows. It seems like it happens pretty refripply, but there is a weird plastic kind of like, like step removed thing that happens on Netflix sometimes. And I wonder whether or not that's the platform or if it's something about the way that they make their stuff. Is part of that, like, you know, them being motivated to basically say,

like, if somebody picks it up at episode five, that they don't really need to know what happened in episode three or episode four, they're all kind of disconnected and, you know, just independent of each other. I mean, is that like a priority for them? I think that that helps, you know what I mean? Like, I think not, if somebody were to accidentally start this on episode three, I don't think they would be lost.

So I think that if anything, it's very user friendly across the board. But I think that works against them. As far as I grew that, but I think it's like, if you build the story, it kind of layers on top of each other instead of like keep having to cut it, you know, explain the cut again for the fourth time or blah, blah, blah, or I don't know. You end up back at Tulsa again instead of,

you know, the chronology of it all just again was just... I mean, it's like a single versus like an album, was just I mean, it's like a it's like a single versus like an album Right, I mean it's the same concept. Here's the thing is that I can I want to talk about that episode specifically But I do want to say this up front is that it is entirely possible that no laying up ruin this thing before it even came out Because there's no way Being serious because this is exactly like, this is like watching the NBA draft and on TV, they're pretending that the picks have just come in

and meanwhile, it's like for just like, here's not only is this guy being drafted, or shams being traded, right? Like you're seven steps ahead of it. There's no way to watch full swing. And like if you compare it to the pods you guys did around the Delaware meeting, it's like, why would to watch full swing. And like if you compare it to the pods you guys did

around the Delaware meeting, it's like, why would I watch full swing? Do you know what I mean? And maybe it's not, that's not full swing's job to be like we're inside the conference room. This is what Tiger said. This is what this guy said. And then this guy pushed back.

But it's kind of crazy that it could have been, right? Like there is a world in which, and some ways the amount of golf media now and the ways in which different people are writing about it and podcasting about it and talking about it, kind of worked against full swing. Because I don't know that I, when you guys got into Formula One

through Drive to Survive, it's not like you were already aware of the real details behind some of the stuff that you were seeing in Drive to Survive. Whereas like when you're watching this, if you listen to this pod over the last two years, you're like, the live stuff's compelling, but it's like only like the first layer of the onion

when you're talking about the story of what happened last year. They would have needed like the get back flower pot scene of people just like talking shit about each other, about live, that of some explosive thing that like nobody has heard before in order for that to really be like this breakthrough. Yeah. Oh my God. You can't miss it moment. But otherwise, like, you can kind of just kind of just catch up elsewhere. If you don't have to eight hours to sit and watch this series.

Solly on the live front, like I was impressed with knowing that, you know, I mean, you got Chris Wondell was like one of the executive producers who works for the PGA tour, like I thought it was going to be kind of minimize live or lean into it in certain episodes. And like, no, it is the central theme of the entire season. And I applaud them for that. Like, you know, it's in, and I mean, they could have easily, like, and I thought it was interesting today. Medo Pereira, like they announced that that media Pereira is going to live today. And I'm not sure if that's a coincidence or if they plan that out, you know, live does permeate

through in a lot of ways. I think it, um, it wasn't, I was not screaming at my TV of like, well, here's what you're missing out of this, right? They did a good job of like, you know, introducing the moral aspect of it of golf mortality of, of, you know, blah, blah, blah, without it being a commercial for it. It seems to definitely think the live guy's got a friendly edit. No. No. No. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I didn't think it was a horrific one either. It was fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, we, we might have given it a little bit, a little bit more of a different, you know, since we're paid so much money by the PGA tour is what, I just read. Chris, did you get your check yet? By the PGA tour is what I just read.

Chris, did you get your check yet? By the way, yeah, no, thank you. The direct deposit hit before we say to recording. I think it is just like an enormous curveball that is thrown a few months into starting the filming of this thing. And again, when you're looking at player profile pieces, like, but again, they got, they got three different guys that went to live to talk about it, talk about their decision making.

All three gave different answers on it. And they sure did. Yeah, we could get into some of that. But I thought I had, I would say a B plus on how live is covered throughout this entire thing. It kind of makes live look that much more dystopian too and like actually seeing the scenes out at Centurion there and that kind of threw me for a loop. I'm like, oh, like this is some behind the scenes shit at Centurion there. And that kind of threw me for a loop. I'm like, oh, like this is some behind the scenes shit

that I haven't seen. Like third leg Greg walking around in his animal outfit out there, dapping everybody up. You know what? None of the guys that we're talking about their decisions to go, we're not like bragging about the product. It was very much excuse making like, well, you got to understand, like, this is like what I have to do.

Or this is blah, blah, blah. It was, it was not a great look for live. I did not think. But again, who know, like the edits can be, you know, very misleading in that regard. If it could have offered a million other reasons, it would have made live look better. But I also think it's just really, really hard to tell the whole live story. When you don't have Phil, you don't have Bryson, you don't have Patrick Reed. You don't have like a lot of the most interesting people.

They did a great job. I didn't really have Cam, which was like, I was waiting for that moment where I was like, oh, maybe Cam is going to say more here about this and talk about like, hey, they don't play in Australia. So I want to have the opportunity to play in my home country or whatever it would be. And instead, they leave a lot of it to Poulter and to. But again, some of that comes back to context too, of like, they don't like, you know, like,

like even drive to survive, I feel like they do a map, right? And they're going from place to place around the world and they're listing out where like, you could tell me that the PGA Tour of Schedule is like, the masters in January, then you go to Tulsa, then you go to the waste management, then you go to the British Open, then you you go to Tulsa, then you go to the waste management, then you go to the British Open, then you go back to Tulsa for another turn. Tulsa, the home of the Boston, then you go back to Tulsa.

I'm going to get you to read. Yeah. And it's like, you know, and then like there's the thing with can't with the monohan pressors, kind of, you know, juxtaposed in there. But like I was really glad the we are moving on. Uh, made it. That was good stuff. But like camp, camp won the players. Cam wins the British open. And like, you don't even see Cam until the 13th or 14th hole on Sunday of St Andrews. You know, and I know that's tough to set the scene where, but it's like, if there is so much good shit

to be, you know, like gleaned from the cutting room floor, then like, why are we doing, like, I thought I found the Mito stuff just painfully, painfully boring. I have a different opinion on that when we can get to that, but I also, so, reaction after watching Breakpoint, at the very end of it, I was kinda like, all right,

so I did some googling of like, all right, who's got joke of it? It has this many major grand slams blah, blah, blah. Nadal has this many federals kind of like, man, you know what? Like catch me up. First app, like catch me up on the current state of things, right? Like who set the state? What's been going on a good part, a highlight part of episode one was like, Jordan, the showing the highlights of Jordan's three majors like that and doing

that at a young age and catching up on that, like that's good. Honestly, make the first up. If you want to appeal this to the masses, like what would the best way to make, to, to appeal this to the masses be? You know what it would be? Make the first episode about tiger fucking woods. Like do it. Just catch me up on this is what this guy did for the game.

He's dealt with these injuries. He influenced this many people get all the pros to talk about them winning the 2019 masters huge moment He stuck on 15 majors stuck on 82 wins He's probably not gonna be playing a whole lot more. He has spawned relationships with these guys blah blah blah And then let it like permeate from there that was just kind of like if okay If the goal of this is to make golf more appealing for the masses Like let's start with the biggest funnel of the mall and like, let's get people caught up on that, right?

And that's, I keep going back to like, is player profile pieces the best way to do this? Or should player profiles be a piece of this of the pie? It's about, it's about characters versus themes and a theme of modern golf, especially over the last year has been, is there a tiger-shaped hole in this game and are any of these guys capable of filling it even a bit? And on the flip side of that, these guys who are like, I grew up obsessed with tiger. This is the model for how I'm supposed to play. And you can see there's a little bit of that stuff affecting more a cow. Watching a Colin episode that's Colin kind of in relationship to Tiger's aura is

actually more interested than Colin looking at swatches at Adidas and being like, I like that one and not that one. Although that was actually relatively like all of it, right? Like yeah. But like that whole thing where Colin's like, obviously like a little bit of a control freak and is a little bit like I'm very micromanaging of my career and like trying to move forward with it. But like this idea that like if I don't win the British open or the open championship I'm sorry every year, then I'm somehow

failing is like an almost like impossible standard to meet, but that's Tiger standard like the Tiger standard would have been a great episode. And they have all this archival footage that they have rights to that they can use. Like they're the only show out there that can do that. I mean, shit, even like the live stuff of setting the scene a little bit, even if it's 90 seconds with Greg in 94, like 93 or 94, like with interviews talking about,

hey, you know what, like instead of just telling me that Greg Norman was this great player back in the day, there's a little bit more background there of like, this guy's been trying to make a world tour happen for years. And that's another theme of like global golf. And the PGA tour is very much focused on, you know, one continent and like, like kind of the push pole between those two things.

And you know, other macro stuff, or is it finally time and hour in to, uh, to start getting into the individual episodes? Let's get into it. Okay. I'm just going to throw some stuff at you guys. As far as, uh, you know, highlights and, and what worked and what didn't work, I thought the first three minutes of the series was straight fire. It was a great trailer and intro.

It made me want to watch more. It was fast paced. It just set the scene that this was going to be a really exciting and behind the scene series. Again, on second watch, I was like, shit, that was good. That was really interesting and a great teaser for the rest of the series. Did it match all of that following? I don't necessarily think so, but I have no comments on the beginning part. But I thought it was good that an intro of the speed, JT relationship with narration that kind of summed up their careers to that point. JT was his friend for a long time, and that's what people referred to him as. And now all of a sudden, it's like, JT has been a little

bit more consistent over the last recent years than Jordan has. And again, you can kind of start to see the storytelling part of like making the RBC heritage seem like a bigger deal than it was and JT struggling there, you know, just so you can flip it. And when it comes to the PGA championships, speak for yourself. Me and T.C. ride for the heritage. That was working for me. Yeah.

One thing about the heritage and JT struggles there. We talked about this with Sam Ryder. The joggers, good. Foot joy premieres. Good. Combination of those two things. Awful, awful, awful, awful. Doesn't work.

Can't have it. I thought in this episode, there was an audio clip and it resurfaces again in episode seven that was one of the best behind the scenes captures I've ever seen in anything ever. And that is when Bito hits it into the water in the 72nd hall of the PGA championship, still has a chant he is going to be dropping.

And if he gets, you know, hits it on the green, if he gets up and down from the fairway, he wins the freaking PGA. And if he hits it on the green and two puts, he's going to play off for the PGA. And they catch him after he hit it in the water, say, I fucked it up, man. I fucked it up on the last hole. And I was like, holy shit, man. Like you just so choke. I hate using the word choke, but that is the definition of choking right there when you have admitted defeat on the 72nd tee while you still have a chance. You're still right in it. I was like, oh my, it almost like was jarring because again, I did not think this was a very good episode and

that kind of was losing interest in it. And when that happened, my wife was watching, and I was like, holy shit, go back to that. What did he just say? Like, that was remarkable. And kind of, again, what more of what I was hoping out of this series than what we got. But again, you can only go with what you've got. But that was. That 18th hole was so sick. I just forgot about how like, hey, that 18 hole was so sick and be that shirt he was wearing was so fucking bad.

I'm inattrocious. I enjoyed the CBS visit for JT, like figuring out his allergies, you know, how golfers, you know, can mostly, can mostly go wherever they want. And yeah, you get recognized on the way out, but like very much of these dudes live extremely normal lives, especially appreciate JT donating 77 cents

to the American Heart Foundation. He rounded up as he went to check out. And so I wanted to... You got to wonder if that stuff's actually going to the American Heart. Yeah, I was gonna say, this is maybe more trap draw than I heard that that's a scam. Yeah. Yeah.

We're looking into it. We're looking into it. We're looking into it. I thought on the jet, when they were both drinking bells, like, I think JT was drinking Oberon and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, or like and it's the same thing throughout the season of like, you know, they're they're driving the different courtesy vehicles or they're driving the different, you know, or like some of the weeks, you know, it's Alexis week or it's a Cadillac week, but they're driving him Mercedes and like, like I bet that that's something that the producers and the tour and the majors are going to hear about on the backend is like all those little wrinkles that are going to keep the agents and, you know,

all the activators of the night. Especially with what wasn't the the whole first episode thing? Wasn't that all like Mick Ultra sponsored? Oh, they the premier was like the whole premiere was like, oh, I'll take that. The whole the Super Bowl commercial and all that stuff. It's kind of funny. I feel like I've seen 60 photos of Jordan's people. And they're drinking real beer from Ray Brewery and Michigan, you know?

I think it the the private jet scenes in general are good to have. Like I've always kind of wondered what it looks like to fly with a player to the next. But again, I go back to themes and Chris, I'm kind of curious to pick your brain on this. And it seems like it needs to be a part of the story in some way, right?

And maybe the story is that their lives are actually pretty boring, right? But like, is golf and golf travel and everything that goes with it? Is it sexy? Is it entertain? Like, is the bedding $1,000 on pulling cards? Was that supposed to be like, their lives are fucking crazy and you're never going to believe it? Or is it to highlight that they're not? Yeah, horrible, horrible game. Or is it like, hey, that it's not, right? But that's where I'm just like, Or is it like, hey, that it's not, right? But that's where I'm just like, it may be, and I think I've kind of gone through this,

right? I think I thought golfers lives were a lot crazier than they actually end up being and the conversations are actually, you know, dull. But like, it's also just, again, back to what DJ said many times, it's about their craft. Like what makes Jordan just an interesting is about their relationship with golf more than it is, like, high flying and partying on a private jet.

Yeah, I think that there, you know, an idea that didn't really get touched on because of the way that they treat time and like the sort of chronology of the show is like, what, how does a tournament we work? When do you show up? Like, how hard do you practice? Like, like, do you fly private because you just can't handle the distress of otherwise, or all this other stuff that goes into it, and instead it's kind of treated as background noise. I thought that, it just felt a little bit folkhanded,

like faux BTS footage when you were watching those guys, and it wasn't even the version of the version of themselves that they present when they've come on the pod for you guys. You know what I mean? Where you're just like, oh, these things are pretty funny. You know what I mean? And these guys are also like, they have hang ups and they have, they're self-conscious about certain things and they're nervous about certain things and that just doesn't come

across. It's just sort of like, these guys have the world that their fingertips and best of all their buddies Yeah, I mean I feel like with the with like the day-to-day and the logistics of things of like like I thought some of those interesting Parts were like the guys signing in for the mask. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I was a little more driving up that. Yeah. Or this or that. And it's like show me more of that of like that, you know, even if it's just focused on in one episode where all right, you're doing that with Fina. And it's like show him going from the course to the jet showing, you know, show him just just all of it, right?

Instead of bits and pieces across all the different players. to the jet showing, you know, show him just all of it, right? Instead of bits and pieces across all the different players. Well, I think what's interesting about that, I'm totally with you, Chris, in that, like, show me more of those, like, I'd rather see real moments of seemingly less exciting things than I would, like, whatever the best of the bad footage you have of somebody winning a tournament is.

If that makes sense, right? Like, they clearly weren't following Jordan the week of Harbor Town. So they're just kind of trying to make that into like into part of the storyline of the season. When in reality, I'm much more with you guys. I'm like checking in for the Masters is really cool. And that's, of course, 1,000 percent is not the same thing at all. I'm well aware of this. But like, that was like the big thing we were talking about whenever we've done the week in the live videos,

is if you do a good enough job on the front end of showing what the week is, then it doesn't matter where they finish, right? And that's kind of what you get in that Brooks episode where he misses the cut by a mile. And it doesn't matter that he wasn't in contention and it doesn't matter that he didn't win. The reason that you care is because you've set up

all the context with all the other stuff. So like, what is the travel? Where are they staying? Who are they staying with? Who do they play practice rounds with and why? How do they get ready for a round? Like all that stuff is all of a sudden like, well fuck man, like now I can't wait to see

what happens. And when it's just, you're kind of trying to like take the shortcut as far as, you know, skipping to the end and like the exciting stuff It's just never gonna be as exciting if you haven't like laid all that ground well and I think I think that would serve One of the themes of the show of like there's 150 guys in the field each week and there's one winner Yeah, right? It's really freaking hard to win like so let's let's focus a little bit more on the guys who aren't winning and the day to day And the week to week stuff than the one unicorn event that happens you know, for 25 or 30 of these guys a year.

Some of my favorite moments of the entire series were when they did some stuff with background and foreground of characters. So like, I mean, I don't wanna jump ahead, Sali, but like there's a moment in the Joel episode where he goes into a clubhouse and he's in the lead or he's, you know, I think he's in contention or whatever. And Colin and Rory are eating. And it's like this weird high school lunch cafeteria thing where they're like,

oh, we see like we recognize you and like like acknowledge you for maybe the first time where we're just like, hey man, good day. And he was just like, yeah, yeah, we'll see you about tomorrow or whatever. And I was like, that's awesome. Like I wish Justin and Jordan had been in the series maybe not every episode about them but like have them be more like narrators or have them be more background characters because you know that when it's not about them, they're probably a lot looser.

Like Rory and Collin are hilarious and that Joel's seeing they're just like sitting there eating turkey clubs and just being guys. But like when they're on camera and it's there, the focal point, they're managing their kind of their personas. Same same thing in that US open episode where like Sam Burns and Billy Horshull are talking in the hall. Yeah. And I'm like, wait, Sam Burns and Billy Horshull, right? And then Joel Damon and Sam Burns are friends like, that's fucking crazy, man.

Like that kind of shook me for a while. now we know Tron wanted that episode to be what if I told you Sam and Billy Horses were friends and they were in the the famous outcast Photoshop. Oh yeah. Billy Horses of Photoshop to himself out of that outcast cover. I think that birds was was a big boy in that that scenario. A quick break here to check in with our friends at whoop the official fitness wearable of the PGA tour. It whoop is a wearable health and fitness coach that specializes in tracking and improving your recovery, your sleep, your activity. So whether you're hoping to sleep better, exercise more, reduce your stress or lower your

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Woop dot com code N-L-U for 10% off back to our full swing pod. I find myself critiquing episode one a lot harder than I'll, I'd rather react to the content in there than like critique the film, but I found the definition like how I would find episode one is like an inch deep in a mile wide. Like you said, in your piece, D just a round. Like I said in your piece, DG, it's just a round. Like I can't think of like if you if you said, Hey, we're going to like follow JT and speed on a PJ and like document their practice

round and their betting games together at Southern Hills. I'd be like, fuck yeah, that is an awesome project. Like the only way like you can't do it is to like do like a three minute hit on it. Right. And hammers mean this and puts me in the, it just, it just, that really was not vibing. I got it. And that's a great episode three. It's a good episode three or something.

And I gotta say the music in this episode was just obnoxious. It was like the most dramatic bait, a golf, that's not the sound of golf, right? This enormous bass drops, like that works for Formula One. Like there is enormous ear shattering, you know, noises that go with bass drops, like that works for Formula One. Like there is enormous ear-shattering, you know, noises that go with it, but like trying to make golf into that, it was, it was not working for me. And then on top of that, like the golf itself was just really clunky,

just really clunky everywhere. The edits, the ooze and awe, the sounds were, were way off. And I don't know, the pieces, I felt like we're kind of there, but it just felt weirdly put together. I love the cutbacks to like JT's childhood footage, stuff of his swinging and his dad teaching him golf and things like that. That all throughout the series, that was a common theme. All the episodes that had stuff of these dudes as kids,

that worked for me a lot. But again, kind of on the note of, this could have been anything. We have instead of multiple episodes coming to Tulsa, the center of the golf universe, of course, out to Bucky. Like, we have Mito in a feature. We have JT in a feature. Like, that kind of, I get it, what they're going for with JT and speed.

But that kind of feels like the episode, right? The tremendous heartbreak that comes from this choke and JT's outrageous comeback. And they got, they nailed his like win and the emotion with that and his family and his wife. They got like the 18th hole of the playoff. Right. I thought on the, on the rewatch. But one of the biggest issues I had was they just felt like they dropped the ball on

the 17th hole of the playoff. Like that was, that was like a shot of the year. It was like an iconic shot with fits. And they got fitzes and we'll get to that one. They got like the, they, they, they honed in and spent some time on that. And like again, this is not like golf junkie me speaking. I think for golf fans and non golf fans alike,

that is a enormous moment. Like you need just some time to just linger on the tension of the moment, some side, maybe do a little audio here, just make it fake. Almost all the audio in there is fake, of just like one of the biggest shots of his life right here. But again, this could be anything.

Go in, show some like, do a dramatic cut back to his childhood of all the swings as a kid, and like all the swings that have gone into building up to this moment. And he executes the shot and like give you the sound of that moment, the crowd's reaction. Hit the shot. He hit the great shot. Big J, hit him good. Like that was the crowd roar is what makes the moment. And I pretty sure they had the wrong audio when that ball landed. Like I don't understand that aspect of it at all. And that, that was my biggest, biggest thing was just like, just show me like the most powerful aspect of it at all. And that, that was my biggest, biggest thing.

It was just like, just show me. Like the most powerful moments of the entire season, when nobody's talking and you let the golf speak for itself and the guys hit just a legendary shot and it speaks for itself. And you don't like, when Fitz hits the bunker shot at Brookline, it's the same thing with JT. It's like, how is that not like that?

That's something that's gonna hook people into watching episode two and episode three. Well documented how I feel about Bonever at this point. That was the only other, the only thing I would add to the fit thing. That took me out of it. I thought the weird, it was a weird music choice to close out episode one especially. Like that was, I can't remember what the exact song or music was, but I just, I noted that like in bold. It's like weird, weird music. Can we get to Brooks?

Yeah, the last thing I had was just like, again, a flaw. I just picked up on it was just, again, an inch deep in a mile wide was like, they kind of like introduce some stuff that I would love to be like unpack. And the segment of like JT or speed go on to the AT&T commercial and like you be in your own CEO and something like that.

I'm like, talk, let's talk about that. And it was just like a quick 60 second thing of him like at a commercial and I'm like, okay, well, what does that mean? Is it a distraction to your game? How do you balance that? All that stuff, I would just cut that scene out. All of that stuff.

And like just the idea of these dudes is independent contractors and that they're their own business and that they all have these sponsorships and different guys, we're different stuff and why? And when do they decide to change and who are their agents and who's our handler? And is that, does this shit get boring or are you really into it?

All of that stuff, I was kind of like, if we're gonna show this guy at a T-Mobile ad, like show me, show it to me. You know what I mean? Like, let's get into the creative, man. Got ATT would be so mad if you would, you thought it was a T-Mobile ad. My deepest apologies.

John Stegg is a listener. I never thought I'd have to make one of these videos. He's a listener of this show. We gotta give them a shout out, so. Sorry. All right, let's take me to Brooks then, have to make one of these videos. He's a listener of this show. We got to get the Michelle out. So, yeah, sorry. Well, all right, let's take me to Brooks then, teachers. If you're that excited. I am that excited. I think it was the definition of, so let me start with this. I think we, I, whoever wants to put themselves in this category, have had a very one-dimensional view of

Brooks the last couple years. And I think it's been very much like coping mechanism self like defense mechanism. Like I don't fucking care. You think I fucking care about this stuff? I don't care. I don't care. Look how little I practice. You think I fucking care about this?

And like being able to see him sitting on the couch with his mother talking about like I might not have it anymore. And maybe I can't beat Scotty Sheffler. And the fact that he's actually like being ripped apart by those two forces is like, I might not have it anymore. And maybe I can't beat Scottie Schaeffler. And the fact that he's actually like being ripped apart by those two forces is like, dude, this is everything. That's it. And I just, I walked away. I think I watched one and two back to back

and was pretty kind of like lulled by the tranquilizer dart a little bit of number one of just like, like what you were saying, so I was, I was pretty out of it and just not, it took me a while to almost like, thaw out and realize like, dude, Brooks is actually like saying what he's saying here. And the more I thought about it, the more I was like, dude, this is, this is it. This is one of the better episodes, like, of sports television. It's like a legit gripping portrait of American masculinity and crisis. Oh, yes. It is.

I mean, like, no, because like this is the dude who's just like, I should be fucking Freddie Freeman. And I don't even like golf. Like I was on the praves and all this stuff. And then this guy dealing with a precipitous decline in his not only his physical condition, but imagine Brooks talking to his mom about how he admires how little Scotty thinks. Like Brooks who is not exactly Marcel Pruss is like, oh my God, like I wish I could just have nothing going on upstairs like Scotty, but I'm like racked with neurosis.

Like that is not the guy I thought he was. Also just like all these little bits and we can get into the marriage stuff, which I thought was gripping but I mean just gripping and horror. Yeah, but just to start off on like a lighter note like There's part of me that wonders if Brooks knew what the assignment was and like because like when he's wearing a fucking triggered hoodie I was like this dude is like does not he definitely knows he's gonna be on television. And like, all the like his clothing choices, he's like fading die job. Like, there's just something about it

that was like, I feel like I'm watching like a 1970s movie about a guy who's like, life is falling apart. This is just unreal. But Chris, this is what I've been screaming for. Like you, golfers, you gotta be entertainers in this way. You gotta know the assignment, right? Like that Brooks, like as hard as I've been on him over the last year, like you were the star of this show as terms of entertainment.

You opened yourself up, you were vulnerable, you let people in and it was real and authentic. And I think it's probably the whole golf world can see that. I mean, I think we can, I'm going to, you know, talk about the decision making that came after that and whether or not we agree with that. I mean, I think we can, I'm going to, you know, talk about the decision-making that came after that and whether or not we agree with that. But like, a lot of these dudes are hyper focused on their golf and I understand it. I do, like, I get it. And it just seems like the golf world needs a shitload more of like what he brought to the table in this episode. And I just want to shout out the appreciation for that. But I guess where I would push back on that, just a hair. I don't disagree, but then you watch like the Ian Polter episode

and he's trying to do that. Yeah, he's not. And when he's doing it, he's doing an impression of somebody in drive to survive. Does it better? So I don't shit in the woods. So I don't think it's as easy as, you know, just like flipping the switch

and like, I'm going to be that guy now. Like, I think you actually have to be that guy. And I think Brooks, like that was a pretty, I think, I don't know Brooks at all, but like, I think that was a pretty authentic portrayal of, I don't think he's necessarily doing a bit or doing a character or anything. I think that's, we got to kind of see who he was and I think that's what made it so good. I think it's also instructive to know that like, who he is is probably a little, a little bit or a lap at narcissistic.

Like, he does care deeply about. Like otherwise he wouldn't have participated like this. And I think all of it, it was just so dystopian almost. We're like his house. And he's like, I don't know what to do here. Like you seem like walking around in circles in his house and like, don't you have like 80 rooms man? Like, like do you have a hobby?

Like what is happening to you? And then like, just, I don't know, it was weird. Like, watching his dad and his, like, his dad's buddies just mill about them, like, them bathering back and forth that Augusto was, was so bizarre. The whole donut scene, I got you donuts. Fuckin' one donut. I'm fat.

You know what I mean? I'm disgusting. Don't look at me. I was like, it really was so vivid. Yeah. I mean, the one of my favorite lines of the whole series is like, he said, I used to be good at getting away from the game at home, but lately I cannot fucking figure out how to turn it off because I've been playing so bad. This fucking thing can consume you. General be talking to me and I'm thinking about my damn golf swing. I was like, dude, that's just that's cut to cut to a seat of her saying like Tuesday, we're going to wear this baby. Yeah. Yeah. When's day I'm thinking this cover up, but I don't

know. I might go with this one. He's just like, Oh, okay. That was brilliant editing. That was just so good. I don't hear what she's so good. I don't hear what she's saying. He goes, it's one of those things where I lost confidence if I'm being honest. So if you lose confidence, it's tough to get it back immediately. My whole career has been straight up. And I don't want to say I'm on the other side of it. But okay, we're going down now.

This is the worst I've ever struggled in my whole life. I have to figure out how to get the fuck back. I have to figure out how to get the fuck out of this thing before it's too late. Just like, and that man is a tat bed? To everything you were saying earlier, earlier Chris is like, I don't necessarily, you know, I didn't make me like him more, but it made me understand him a little better, right?

It made me like have more empathy and it just made him generally so much more interesting, which is. Yeah. I mean, I think that we probably all were like, oh, he must have like a degenerative, like knee or something, something must be like physically degenerative like knee or something must be like physically wrong with this guy so that like he's like, I only have like five or six more years playing golf or whatever. To see him dealing with it emotionally and mentally was like actually pretty, I thought it made him a much more like human figure to me and he goes so out of his way to be like,

I'm not human, I'm not like you guys, I don't have any doubts, I don't care. I mean, even little things that I'm sure he didn't intend to be like that, like the trophy, the trophy wall. You know, it's like, dude, you keep your trophies. You know, like, you care about all this stuff and you care about your legacy and you care about your place in the game and you watch this dude, Scotty, come along,

who sits around reading the Bible and drinking coffee and being like, I like beige, you know, and like, and that guy is now gonna be the alpha of golf for five years. And you can't compete. That must be just like, I can't imagine what must be going through a guy like that's had because he's probably like, I'm Michael Jordan the last dance.

Like, this is what this frame is. It's like me being like, I took that personally. But Scotty is not, I say it's honest. He's not even the Scotty doesn't think about him at all. It's like this, it was a real like beautiful moment there. It was such great, you know, you know, crossing of those two paths. And I think it, for me, it did make me like Brooks just a little bit more because I've always hated the facade of like, I don't really practice, you know.

And, you know, in a part in there, I forget who says it's like, Brooke says it. Brooke says it. He's like, he worked, he says he got to be the best in the world because he worked harder and more than everyone else. When in public, he's been bragging about how little he practices. And because from 2017 to 2019,

I was the best in the world than injuries hit. And then there's a part, it's kind of like, it's embarrassing because I'm a professional golfer. Like it lagers and it looks at the producer like, you know what I'm saying? Dylan had something in there, like Brooks defining this generation. And it never problem with it so much

is like it kind of made me look inward. And I'm like, man, like, do I agree? Do I disagree? Like is that, is that just not how I consume golf? Or is that just like, he did so much in such a short amount of time? Four majors, dude. It's making a lot.

It's almost hard to process. I think I wish with Netflix's resources, they could attract down some of those people who went at his knee in a Kiowa. That's right. You know, all those people, they're going at my knees. I wish we could attract some of those people down, but that's okay. It was kind of like a Kellyn Winslow.

I'm a soldier, man. And again, the crossover was just like him talking about all this stuff and then they cut to Scotty and Meredith at home in Dallas without a worry in the world. And he says specifically, talking about not taking bad rounds home and not letting it ruin the rest of his evening again juxtaposing that again. It's like, yes, my wife's talking, but I don't even hear shout to Neil who gets an audio drop in this part saying Scotty Yes, not couple and everyone, but not me, not me more Keppka quotes is when you have it you feel like you're never gonna lose it and when you don't have it

You feel like you're never gonna get it. I guarantee Scotty Shephler's got nothing going on in his head right now. And then he goes, I go back to every major that I won. I pay back every dollar I've made in this game just to have that feeling again. Which going to his some of his subsequent decision making. Maybe he means maybe he means the money he made before live. Yeah, because now I have so much money anyways that it we're good. Like I was going to use the word respect like it. The whole thing made me respect Brooks more, but then when you juxtapose a quote like that

with his subsequent decision making, plus the knowledge that it's not some degenerative me or something that he can't recover from, it's it's mental. And it's kind of like man like that. Like now you just seem like a massive pussy and that was my immediate reaction after watching it was like dude like the whole thing about golf is like climbing your way out of the pits right like that's the whole thing like you don't get to just ride the highs and then like take the easy bailout at least for me as a golf fan that's the whole fucking thing.

You can't be the alpha of the generation as somebody in this episode described you as and it would be hard to argue with. I mean, one, four majors in a two year span and then go bailout a couple of years later. That's just what makes it really hard to, and that's what makes me even more frustrated with the decision. Especially when you've got Ricky when you've got Ricky, like in the, you know, in these episodes, being candid about stuff, you've got Jordan,

you know, participating in these episodes, guys that are digging it out and trying to recapture past glory, you know. I also want to give a shout out to the editing, I think, on that front too, because I think they, maybe this is just how it goes and makes live make more sense.

But a lot of the live guys are kind of seen as like, no, no, no, it's not just, you know, I've still got it. I can still do this whatever. And then they just get their ass kicked every time they're on camera. Yeah. Basically all those guys accept Dustin. Yeah. That's how it comes off.

And Cam, but like, you know, who isn't really touched on, but like the polter episode, and I don't know if we're ready to move on yet quite or not, but the polter episode is just him talking the whole time about just like, man, I'm going to keep working. I'm going to keep grinding. I'm going to, oh, I'm on three at the match play. Fuck, you know, or like, today's a huge day. I'm, I can't, oh, no, God, I got my ass kicked again. You know, and it's, it's kind of this interesting portrait of, of these guys, like, they do a good job in the editing of, I think that's maybe their best instance of showing instead of telling that like, no, you can see these guys

like getting beat up pretty bad and how that's probably not a super fun time. My other thing on episode two was on the Scotty side of things is just the idea that like I really wanted to be like, Camer crew leaves that day day and then like an episode of euphoria breaks out. It's like, are they gone?

Are they gone? Yeah. And then it just turns into like Vegas day pool party in there, but I somehow doubt it. It was very, I was like, man, like that's gonna be the only time Scotties ever walked to the coffee shop. That was staged. Like I felt like it was like my wedding photo. I felt like that was staged. I felt like it was like my wedding photo.

I was like, all right, like, you know, put your arm around there. Little slower, little slower. Yeah, and then like a couple more things from that up to is it bothered the shit out of me that Brooks didn't take his hat off. I mean, went into the Augusta National Park, that noticed that too. Clubhouse, Brooks, I and Cameron Morphit down in the, in the, like the, the, the media part there in Scottsdale. And then just Jenna, and like, I'm just like, I'm not very bullish

on that. Well, I also see it from her spot where she's just like, he was super optimistic when we met like. And I used to like never have to worry about like what, I mean, like obviously they just got like a hundred million dollar checker wherever I'm sure they were fine. But like, and I used to like never have to worry about like what I mean, like, obviously, they just got like a hundred million dollar checker wherever I'm sure they're fine. But like, I do think that the the shifting sands of time moved very quickly under under their feet there. God, what a novel that that is going forward. Just the aging Jenna and like, Brooks trying to grapple with his mortality. Like that is, that's good stuff.

Also Brooks is probably gonna have a, like a massive picture of Dan Rappaport on his wall of like, all right, here's the fucker that I need to prove for. This guy, this guy doubted me on this episode. He said so much shoot about me that, you know, all the producers were probably telling him, like, all right, we need some stuff casting doubt

upon Brooks's future and this and that. And like, you know, he gave it to him, him like, all right, we need some stuff casting doubt upon Brooks's future in this and that. And like, you know, he gave it to him. But man, like Brooks is going to be like, all right, I'm focusing all my energy into that. What about when Brooks pretended like he didn't know who won the Masters? I think that was genuine. As we do that, sometimes like, who did win the Masters this year? Like, not if you were, not if you played with that guy. You'd probably be able probably get a Twitter,

a Twitter alert about that. That's fair. I will say, too, that the Scotty, like coffee walking scene, like that is how you package something that's relatively boring was like the juxtaposition of like easygoing, you know, like on its own, is that interesting? No, but it's just like, oh, like this is, this is just good storytelling, I think. But here's normal human beings. Yeah. Not that is fluffy swing. Why, why do they have a swing in their family room, by the way, with like, I don't even know how you described that.

I'm not sure if it's over. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Another kept a line was saying, I can't compete with these guys weekend and week out. And also, I felt embarrassed. I've never felt that way way leaving a golf course before at the Masters was very much a sheesh. And then, but back to the Masters story telling is a little bit weird, I think, but again, just like a really random, awesome, incredible audio drop, especially when you have the perspective of what that morning of the Sunday of the Masters was like for Scotty Shaffler. And you spent the morning in tears wondering if the moment was big enough for him. Ted Scott in his ears, right, on the putting green before he goes and

says, I want you to remember two things today. Number one, you're not an unfamiliar territory. This is what you do and have always done just another day of golf. And number two is that God is in control of everything. And look, they don't dive too heavily into it. Like religion is a huge part of both those guys' lives and it shows their compatibility and it shows like, A, they don't, again, they don't dive into it, but having a veteran, veteran caddy on the bag can elevate your play,

can elevate your consciousness. And I was just an awesome, awesome catch by their cameras and ends it with a, let's do it, kid. And they go and they linger on the walk to the first tee with the cameras following. I was like, fuck, yes a let's do it kid and they go and they they they linger on the walk to the first tea with the cameras following I was like fuck yes let's let's go like that is it like always wonder what you say to a guy on the way to go and go win the masters and that was just that was again very very good episode as hard as we were on episode one this was this was great horrible audio the audio though of Scotty's made putt at Phoenix when they show that. Again, just play the audio from when he made the putt.

It's just very much like a... Why are we dubbing in last year? I don't understand that. Well, and then leading us into like episode three, they just keep hammering these same storylines, just burying them down your throat. Officials in Saudi Arabia are trying to create a survival golf rate. It kind of reminded me of the beginning of 1990s. It was the beginning of Crimson Tide or hunt for a October

where it's like, exactly. In the Indian Ocean, Russian military aggression has been, and it's like Jean Hackman is here. So yeah, the sort of socio, the global political portraiture was, we left something to be desired. And that's where I was a little frustrated with some of the live stuff is like, it's almost a cop out to use those newscasters to say like all the quiet parts out loud, right?

You have all these talking heads, all of these people who would have had so many thoughts about live and what's going on and what does it mean? Is it good? Is it bad? Who's it good for? Who's it bad for? And instead it's just like, no, no, no, we're just going to use news clips to say all the like really scary stuff. We're going to use shepherd's smell. Yeah.

They live this one with chefs. Yeah. And it's just it's a little blitzer. It's a situation. It's a little there was one guy at one point from like the BBC or something. We're on like, I have no idea who this guy I've never seen this guy that was the guy that made like the 10 minute long like to find out It was actually a really good video that one was that was circulating last summer last few things I have in this episode

I don't know what we're doing the tiger like these random like cut-ins like R.I.A. Come back from this injury, but without really even lingering on it It's kind of almost like don't do it at all or dive into it. I thought they could have revisited how close Brooks was to winning the 2019 Masters, right? I think that was like part of the Augusta through line there was there.

And then yeah, the cliffhanger on the live thing at the end, like with Brooks is kind of like, I mean, I get it, if you're first time watching you don't know where he ends up, that's a good cliffhanger, but for 99% of the, of the world watching it, they know that he goes to live. So picking up episode three, where we have Ian Polter talking about selling out while flying private over an ocean with his family back to England. Did a little digging on this one. Do you know

again, somebody I asked that would, that may know, what do you think it estimated cost would be to fly from Orlando to England on a private jet one way? On that size, probably, I would say 65. Yeah, 40 popped in the head. 150 was the estimate. So come on. Yeah. Like that's a lot.

Depends on if he's got hours. He's got the net jets logo. He thinks I'm the judge. He just for fuel. I would say it's probably 65 to 70. And Polter doesn't seem like a big carbon footprint guy, just like we're sitting around working about making the Polter family more sustainable. I don't think so. Let's say what's the general reaction to this episode?

Chris, I'm going to start with you. What is what's your reaction to this one? As we've maybe known Ian to be extremely punchable for maybe a little longer than you have. So I'm curious your reaction. Yeah, I mean, I guessed he was who I thought he was. You know, basically, I thought it was good TV, ultimately, but it's an interesting portrait of a guy who is competitive in ways that have nothing to do with the sport because he probably that ship is sailed. But so to him, having him walking around like T-Boxes being like, how many Twitter followers do you have? And, but this guy never tweets. It's like, this is kind of why we are where we are as a society is because it's like this, probably. But I thought it

was actually like the stuff back in England and with his family was, was obviously they were really intimate. Like they, they were really intimate, like they were able to get into the kitchens and into the sort of him with his kids hanging out. I thought so that was really funny that like, whatever he's with his kids, he's still looking at his phone. But yeah, like I thought the sort of triple portrait of Dustin, Polter, and Brooks as the sort of three reasons why guys went to live,

whether it was because like the bodies were falling apart, they were past it, both or in Dustin's case, which we'll get to, to just straight up, because they paid me more. So yeah, I was kind of where I was at with you. I kind of, I think I said this earlier, he felt like he was doing kind of an impression of a drive to survive guy, but I think that's kind of just who he is, right? I think, you know, not to, I don't know, not to pop the balloon, but I think he's probably had a lot

of people in his ear for a number of decades, like telling him how funny and provocative he is that- Real Michael Scott vibes. That yes, when it actually is like captured on camera and reflected back It's kind of like oh god. That's it's kind of cringey. I thought it was very interesting that you know the tournament They kind of follow them when they follow them and just setting I thought they did it actually a good job of Setting the stakes of the golf course like this was a good example of when they were like here's

We're gonna actually set this up this This match play is a big deal. If he doesn't play well, he doesn't get into the masters. And for like a half a second, I was like, oh man, I forgot what happened. Like, does he win this? Or is he not win this? And like, I'm actually kind of interested to see. And I was like, oh right, that's right.

Fitzs like beat his ass. Yeah, is it any like undefeated in singles match play? Yeah. And they did a good job of like setting that up. I almost thought they could have gone a little farther. Like his background's, I think pretty interesting as like being kind of this former pseudo club pro type of guy who just basically like became,

like almost like willed himself into becoming a tour player and getting out of the golf shop and all that stuff is like, really interesting and again, I think it kind of adds some empathy or explanation for some of the live decision of just like, hey, this is this is and always has been like a business thing for me. Like I left my job because I could make more money as a tour player. I'm leaving being a tour player because I can make more money as a live player.

Like I think that stuff again, whereas I don't necessarily agree with it, I think I can understand it certainly. And so I think they almost kind of got a little deeper on some of that stuff. Stuff with this kid was fine. I didn't really feel too much on that, but ultimately kind of kind of a, I don't know, kind of a whatever, I'll give it a C. I feel like it was either disingenuous on Ian's part or slash maybe shared a little bit on the production part of presenting the decision as simply as like, this is for my family. When again, you are flying already,

flying private across a notion and you are a known collector of Ferraris. Like that's, and like, kind of like bringing the family in to talk about his decision is like, yeah, he's gonna do whatever, whatever is best for the family is like. You would think that he was like on the starving line and not able to like make it as a professional.

And now all of a sudden he has a route to making, you know, making a lot of money. When like the greed is what I've had a big issue with, everything that's related to live. And it's not granted. I get it. It's pretty hard to like, Hey, can you sit for this interview? Like we're gonna really present this as you being

especially greedy. Like that's hard to get guys to do things, but that's more of the reality of the situation. And I'm kind of was left screaming that at the TV of like, again, I feel like they did a good job in presenting the live stuff overall, but I'm more was screaming at Ian of like, don't freaking cry, poor here.

We all know what this is. And it just kind of exposed him. I thought a little bit for what he is, kind of fake witty and just wildly out of touch. But Sally, it's all relative. You know, all the wealth is relative. You know what, I'll kind of take a deferring tact. Maybe it was just because I still had PTSD from episode one.

I thought it was pretty authentic in genuine. Maybe just because I think that's who he is. Like I think this's who he is. Like I think, I think this showed who he is. I thought the, you know, the stuff at home, even in his closet, like him, I think tugging at the, like the themes again, I thought he was the right guy to talk about the business of golf and about, you know, hey, I missed a cut at Southern Hills.

And I can't cover my expenses this week as I got on another PJ. He got on enough. Yeah. But it's kind of like, Hey, man, like, you know, it's, it's kind of a window into like, yeah, like if the journey man dude is, is fly private every time he flies, like, you know, like kind of level setting that a little bit. But to your, your point on like, it's all relative. He literally said like people, like when talking about the decision, people say, don't you have enough already, but that's all relative. I treat my golf as a job and I want to maximize every bit of my potential

over the coming years. I'm 46 years old and I'm not getting younger. Yeah. You know, I, I actually was was thinking about this when I was watching the polter episode as my dad used to tell me this story about he'd gone to do an interview with Robert DeNiro like in the 80s or something like when he was working at the paper and it was like round when I think he bought into Nobu and it was kind of like why is the greatest actor in the world buying a sushi restaurant and and doing all this other extracurricular stuff and DeNiro was like actually said to him like it's like when you get to a certain level of wealth, and then you start buying all these houses and having all these assistants and all these people are working for you and all these people are

depending on you. Like, you have to sustain it. You have to keep pouring money into that. So it's like, look, man, I'm sure Ian's kids are not like ready to go back to flying premium economy. Like I'm sure they're just like, Dad, I want to fly the BJ. And I thought that that was like, there was like a little bit more there that they could have talked about to your point about like it all being relative and agreed and the wealth and stuff.

But I would imagine like being like a your own company and having to pay for all the stuff that goes into it and you know, managing all your accounts and all your Twitter accounts and stuff like that, is actually like a really fascinating aspect of this, that they probably could have shot through the lens of Polter. It was amazing to see how much importance he puts on social media.

Yeah. Like that talk that he was having with Pat Perez or him referencing his social media following when talking about live and how much he's kind of invested into that. Like, it might just be expectations. I think I went into it thinking that I was going to like want to kick him in the face. The entire time I was just like, yeah, that's kind of what I like, that's kind of what I expected Ian Polter to do. And I thought the closet scene was really,

really good. We're like seeing him pull out that many different pairs of like outrageous plaid trousers in a row and seeing how he packs his little bag was oddly fast. I actually think I would enjoy hanging out with you and Polter. I think I'm serious. In a room at a dinner, I think he'd be great company. It's literally when he picks up his phone and his public-facing persona that is so incredibly punchable. I don't, it's amazing. Like the stuff with his daughter on the couch where they're like going back through old old stuff.

Like he legitimately seemed like he felt comfortable in front of the camera. Like one of the few guys that just felt like he was in his own skin. Yet again, it was just so cringe. Would you love playing in the ride a cup? Do bass shit in the woods? Does the Pope Catholic really, really original stuff with that one? But he was the one who was seeing the most aware of like what it could be, what the show could be like.

He seemed to be trying to make faces that were memes. Yeah. He seemed to be the one who was the most conscious. Like, did you guys get that? Yeah. Did you get that? Oh my god, that was classic. Like, we can't, I mean, possibly the perfect time to bring up the, you guys all rolling,

everybody got sound. Okay, I'm about to throw this tantrum. So like I was going to make sure you make sure you guys, you guys get this. Yeah. I care so much. I care so much about my throwing the clubs. I can do it again. If you guys just get that, we could take another one in the locker room.

We need some coverage. Yeah, with cameras following you, not buying it, not buying it at all. Also, it's a really interesting quote about his Ryder Cup cap can see. It would be devastating if it was taken away. That would be really disappointing. Just like playing dumb on that was very much a. It's like, it's like Graham McDowell, you know, crying on Carey Williams podcast this week about like, oh man,, like, I can't believe

they would do. No, that's like in the discussion the entire time. And so many other quotes here, I definitely shouldn't be forced to walk away from the PGA tour. It is a shame. It took a lot of consideration through time to get to this point. Yeah, there's a reason why you were forced to not walk away. You are not forced to walk away from the PGA tour. You chose to walk away. to not walk away. You're not forced to walk away from the PGA tour. You chose to walk away. It's so hard to give a simple explanation on how all this works itself out.

Again, I thought I either thought it was crude or perfect of the use of the big ol' bag of money song as it related to the first live event. It was a little in your face, but also the answer to so many questions. And a good like use of the highlight clip of the first press conference of how dumb these guys looked at that first press conference. DJ laughing at the Saudi atrocities atrocities as they were listed off. That was tough. It really painted the picture.

These guys were like squarming to get answers out of, you know, I don't have that. So what God, the Westwood and Polterby had asked if they would play it in Vladimir Putin's call third of the year. Are they like, that's a medical. I'm not going to deal with hypotheticals. I don't have to answer that question. The St. Petersburg master presented by gas problem. I just, I love that they did include, uh, Monahan's moving on speech.

I didn't even mention that earlier, T.H. But that just, that just made me so happy because it's like, we're moving on. We're like, all right, cool. Nobody else is respectfully. Uh, yeah, we're, we're focused on legacy, not leverage. Okay. Yeah. Cool, cool.

It, yeah, I don't know. Oh, episode is a whole, I mean, like, I don't know, weird scenes of like honing in on his Polter like his son's game and all that stuff. I'm like, dude, guys get with all this stuff going on here. Like, why are we? Why are we here? Right? This is harmless, but it just a little bit of stuff that felt a little, I don't know, out of how about that room in his house? Or they just like sit there on the couch and you just open up the door and hit balls into that field. That's kind of wild. No, I thought that this stuff was like,

this is actually I think where if the episodes had been more like pulter and then the following one, I would have actually would have welcomed like 12 to 15. You know what I mean? Like these sort of mini portraits that stay very much within the lines of the character that they're doing. I thought that this one and the subsequent one were the best kind of execution of, hey,

in very, very little ventured, a lot gained. I learned a lot about this guy that I didn't know much about. You get a little bit of a snapshot into the world of golf through this person. It was a little bit more like I felt like it knew its role around three and four and maybe even five here. It felt a lot like the like the drive to survive episode where they go and profile Horner like and like I know they live in the same area of of England and everything but like it felt very similar to that one just in nature and and kind of narrative. Episode four. Where does this one rank? Joel Damon episode in terms of near the top of of your guys list of episodes.

Second best for me. Behind Brooks. Yeah. Yeah. I think that intro. I was interested to see how they were going to use the waste management stuff. And I thought they knocked it out of the park to set up that episode of just like no, no, no, no, this is like this guy's very different than what you've seen over the last three episodes and they did such a fun job with that. Do you feel very way in a major? No, not even close. and who he was, they did a great job with that. Obviously Joel got very emotional on camera talking about his mom and his own kind of cancer diagnosis and the way he he talked about Gino, I mean, it was just, it was great. It kind of had a little bit of everything. They very much lucked out on the Joel playing his balls off that week and like really getting you know, getting into it and getting into the lead and really put it. Even before that they

lucked out on. Qualifier at the USG. Yeah. Yeah. I would say lucked out is a relative term here though because you get that through shotgun blasting which again like part of like filmmaking here is the following stuff that leads to absolutely nowhere and the amount of resources they dedicated to following different storylines and like yeah

lucked out is you know they, they got, I think, oh, I ate it. I think overall they did luck out in some of the stuff they got, but again, that's through like a lot of human effort that went into that, so I wanted to give at least that a shout out. I thought that these two episodes, specifically the Joel one, which is just the most,

like, heartwarming one, obviously. Did a good job, because like as an outsider sometimes, when you're watching these guys, they just really all do feel like the same person. And it just feels like everybody lives in Jupiter, everybody, everybody's been planned since they were eight. Everybody went to Oklahoma or wherever. And now they're like, they're kicking ass,

just like they were always supposed to their entire lives. So to get somebody like Joel, who not only has this interesting relationship to competition, given he's a professional athlete, it's a really fascinating sort of him just sort of being like, it's a living and it's pretty cool and I'm not the best and I'm just trying to have a good time while I'm here. And his caddy having that same attitude, that sort of like, this is about the journey, not about the endpoint kind of thing, Really made it actually broke up the kind of a not-ne that golf can sometimes be where you're like, man, all these dudes are just automatons and they're just killers, but they're not that interesting.

It was a good spot in the season for it. Yeah, definitely. It was, you know, to kind of the level set of like, you know, like all these guys aren't just fucking ass. And it answered a couple of questions. Like, there's some normal. It answered a ton of questions on caddies that like casual viewers would have like, how are caddies? How do you do that? And is it your best friend? Like do you hang out

with that person? And I think their situation's kind of unique to that. But again, great ex again, again, too much of the burden I felt like has been on the players to carry this. And if you just like share that, Joel is very good

with this stuff anyways, but sharing that with Gino as far as that relationship brings out the best in both of them and miking them up for like just their on course audio is just like kind of maybe also for one of many times I wanted to be like, what the fuck tour? Like you could have captured all this stuff for so long. If just little stuff of Gino walking off a green being like, yep, we'll try again next week. You know, Joel said, oh, we're going to miss all the West Coast cuts again. And Gino goes, I'm going to fucking punch you in your ribs. You told me you're going to make a million dollars these next four weeks. Like, that's good content, man. Like that's, that's where it's at, dude. This was, I mean,

shit, this was a journey from his testicular cancer, his mom's cancer losing, you know, his mom at a young age, kind of veering off path for a little bit to his wife, and now starting a family and like going to stroller shopping and his brother. Yeah, the stroller shopping is just like, yeah, dude, it's like, do normal shit. It's just amazing. Got it. Yeah, like they just, they got it on this one. And Gino called him a boner, the good shot you boner, like that's just, they got it on this one. And Gino called him a boner, the good shot you boner,

like it's just, I kind of ran out of things. I started listening off all the amazing things for this episode. And both of them reading the letters, like swapping that back and forth and Joel getting emotional, like it's just, I love this one. And a big takeaway I had from,

I forget if I said this already, but the tennis one was, my first reaction after we watched all those episodes was, I went to the Australian Open, I went to the leaderboard and checked out the people we just watched, how they were doing in the tournament. Like, you know, the Greek girl that I forget her name now, I knew nothing about. I'm like, oh, I'm curious if she wants. And that's where I think Joel and a few of these other guys are going to benefit a lot of some of these new casual viewers.

I think you're going to check in on the PJ tour app a little bit more often to see if Joel Damon's involved. Like, I think they're going to have more fans. I really do. I do too. And I think not to pour any cold water on this, but I think it's worth thinking about and talking about is like, what does that look like now? Because okay, if Chris, you've never never watched golf before you love this Joel Damon guy

You can't wait to go watch him everywhere. I'll go see him on TV Yeah, I just need you to sit in front of the TV for five hours and we might show him one or two times Like just wait man. Just be patient. We got to start a Joel Damon tracker Twitter account No, no, we're not we're not, we're not starting, we're not starting any track or accounts. And then Chris, I also need you to sign up for ESPN plus because he might be in a feature group and like in, in about 10 weeks, Thursday morning, but it's going to be between the hours of like 9 and 11 on the East Coast. So it's going to be about 6 a.m. You're talking like if I do all that, is there any chance that somebody might service me with some workplace solutions while I'm watching?

Because like, that's one thing that's been sort of like in the way of getting into golf is like, I have a lot of payroll and schedule management stuff that it's just like, I never see advertisements that can help you with these things. No, we got that. We got that. We got that shit. Don't you work, bud? But you know what I mean though, it's not that this is Netflix's job to fix any of this

stuff. And it's really, I don't even, you know, it's not like we can, we have to do all of this in one fell swoop, but it's another reason why I keep coming back to like, oh, this is not going to be the drive to survive effect. Like it is, it's, yes, Joel's going to have a lot more fans. I totally agree with that, but I don't think it's, it's, you know, people aren't gonna be setting their alarms to watch and play every single week, because golf is just a wildly different sport. A couple other things I had.

Joel's swing earlier in his career. I don't know if it was like late junior years or college or early pro years. It was so good. Like that finish. I could have watched that all day. I was disappointed to see Springfield Country Club getting left off the map. They did for the sectional qualifying sites that really, really chapped my ass.

And then just a general thought, it really like hit me up for the graphics are just kind of strange. Yeah. And in the show itself. Yeah, like the gradient yellow. And I don't know, it's just, it's just weird. Like there's just nowhere like that's just a side, I guess. I would say this was the first episode that made being a pro golfer look fun. Like it just like captured that and then granted that's part of just Joel's outlook on life. And

it's a, and I don't know, that was a takeaway I had of like somebody that's enjoying the ride a lot. And it was kind of, you know, honed in on like, yeah, you don't, you don't think you're good enough. All this blah, blah, blah. But just also somebody that is incredibly self aware of his abilities. Like he, I disagree with him when he says he can't win a major. I told him that.

I watched that episode when I was at Pebble and I saw him the next day. I was like, dude, you can absolutely fucking win a major. He's like, no, I can't. I'm like, let me be clear. These other guys are way better than you. I'm not saying you're better than them. They definitely are. But you can also win a major. And he's like, well, like the situation's got to be right. I was like, yes, it does. Like, you're not going to win the masters. Like you're, you're just not, but you can win a major. And again, he's just like incredibly honest about all

that stuff. He's going to have to have that conversation so many times now. I wonder if you were regrets being like, well, there's that look. Of him going to the press conference was great too. When he's tied for the lead, he's like, oh, wow. Here's Joel Damon, say they can't win a major blah, blah, blah. I don't know. That was that was again, Joel's like one of one of the best dudes out there. But but that also is, I'm just a cold water guy. Sorry, but that's that's also

where it becomes this whole concept becomes really interesting to me too, where it's all I am totally with you on like these guys need to be putting themselves out there. They need to be real. They got to be authentic blah, blah, blah, blah. But also if you're someone like Joel, you're going to get one episode and you are that guy for the rest of your career. Like you know, it's between rounds of the. Yes. that's like, if I'm, if I'm Joel, and I have, Joel has plenty of money, like he is doing great, he's got a great life that we're just talking about, like,

I certainly don't need to do this. And that's what I think what they're gonna be up against a little bit is it's gonna be so easy to, you know, pigeonhole yourself into whatever you are on the show. Shout out to Brooks. Some of it too, it's just like- A couple of years ahead of him,

although I don't know that his media exposure is gonna be quite the same. Give me a little bit more context on, like, all right, like Joel's not as good as these other guys. Yeah, like, why? What is he not good at that these other guys do- Believe in them, like, that's something there is or something. Show me some of his numbers or show me, you know, show me an example, right? Or explain it just a little bit more to where, you know, to really drive that home of,

what is different about his game versus Rory's game or DJ's game? Right. I was going to ask you guys. So I obviously have never, I've ever even played competitive golf before. I only just played for fun. But like when Joel did what he did to come back and qualify for the US open after his his hard solsters, is that because it would essentially be like if the the Sixers joined the NCAA tournament, like was he so much better than everybody that it was actually like a a switch flip or is it, was it actually like a kind of Cinderella story? It was cool for him to do that.

There's a good mix of like, so that, that particular sectional is the Monday after the memorial. So a lot of the guys that are in the memorial tournament that are not qualified for the US Open, go to that site. So it's like 13 guys. The most guys make it out of that site is how it works. But there are a lot of like, I mean, Adam Scott, Keegan Bradley's have like teed it up in that. If you're like 65th in the world, I get, it's top 60 make it in.

If you're 65th, you got to go to one of those things. So it's not, it's, it's not a guarantee. There's also just a huge mix of like other professional golfers that are so wildly good at golf that you can't possibly comprehend it that over 36 holes can beat Joel Damon easily. Like it's not like watching NBA versus G league, you know, a team wise. It's just on a one on one basis, like it's just anything can truly happen in those.

So it's a grind. It's a lot, especially coming right off a tournament, like to go especially if you have a bad first 18 holes, like to go out and shoot what you need to shoot in the back, but also, yeah, these guys are just wildly, wildly, wildly good. And it probably just took him playing like his normal round of golf for him to be able to execute that. So I don't know what the comp is. It's yeah, I was sure it was, it gave me a little bit like LeBron decides to start playing the mid-sleeved kind of, but I wasn't sure. It's not that far off that.

Like, really, it's closer to that than I probably made it sound. It's like a sick seed in the NCAA tournament, playing like shit in the first half. And then being like, oh, you know what, like we're the sick. We don't want to go home yet. Yeah, yeah, it's like we should beat the 11, you know, or we're the Tanner, whatever they play on watch college basketball. Once they started, once they started paying the things and raised up the door.

Two hours into a podcast, you just dropped that little note again. Yeah, the only thing I had that didn't, uh, didn't really work in this one was again, what the Rory quote of what separates the best players in the world from the rest is belief in themselves. It just, it gave you your dominant down to that for, for like a casual audience. It's very much that does Joe a pretty big disservice for like, yeah, he would be the best part of the world. If he just like actually believed in himself, but yeah, it's just a little bit different. But also, if they really wanted to pull that string, like, some of that could be like max, like max is self belief. Like he's, like, he's

an example of a guy that he is good enough to be number one on the world. And he's starting to believe it because he's putting the work in and he's seeing the results and all that. And it's like, all right, like there's a guy that that may apply to, but doesn't apply to 99% of the guys out there. I thought, you know, we talked a little bit before about, like, the NLU cut and how you guys might have reassembled these certain

these episodes and I thought that Joel and Tony Fienau had like a real symmetry because the question of like, can you be a nice guy and do this or can you have a family and do this and like, like, there's a conversation, I'm sure, like if Joel had like a much more cutthroat team around him who was like, you're, you're, you're caddy and his coach and everybody was just like, no fucking jewel, like 100 more, give it to me. Excellent. Like maybe he would be, maybe he would win like once or twice more a year or something like that.

You know what I mean? But he wants to like work with his friends and he wants to have like a kind of balanced life and that's kind of, that in it for, as TV, that's interesting. You know, the workout stuff was, I was like, I was starting.

But you could tell that guy was like, give me something here. Like the coach is like, come on, Joel, you know what I mean? Chris, we know you love podcasts with your friends, but you, we need to put you in Dak Shepherd together, man. It's just for the greater good. It's gonna be better for your podcast. That's right. Just take me to my next level.

Chris, you know what? Maybe makes this work for me, Chris, is I think nine years ago, like 2014 was when for the first time in my like adult life, I felt like I slowed my grind down just a little bit to like enjoy the ride a little bit. I moved to broad and started traveling and started doing other shit and like it ended up leading to this. And it was like, it's not that I don't work hard. It's just that what's the point of working really hard like through your prime and not enjoying it along the way? That's kind of semi-my philosophy on life.

Like I can definitely, I went and practiced golf this morning. I definitely could have worked for three more hours. And you know, but it's like how do you balance those things? I felt like that's a great look into how Joel is going to, and I've heard him talk about this too, of like the sustainability of his career, if he was grinding nose to the wall the entire time, it would not be, it would not be high. He would not be able to do it forever because he, that's just not how like his outlook on work life balance, if you will. So, which is, which is interesting. I'm not, I'm not trying to be Mr. Segway guy, but that kind of takes you into the Fitzpatrick

episode a little bit, right? Which is like a guy that has always been pretty obsessive about, you know, stats. Obviously I really like to all the stats stuff, but I don't know if that will, if the catch fans will, we'll get going more of that. I did too. But like what a guy that is just like, no, no, no, like this is for the next 10 years, man Like this is life. This is the grind and I think there's probably a threat I know he didn't participate but like that's what we always talk about with Cam Smith too, right?

Is like it seemed like for a long time. He was kind of like, ah, you know, I'm just out here like I'm just figuring it out And I'm just a regular guy and blah blah blah and whatever switched a couple years ago where he's just like no You know what? I'm to start really working really fucking hard. Uh, you can see how it how it does pay off. I mean, it absolutely does. I don't know if I can't guarantee yet true, true, true. So yeah, I don't know if we want to move on to the fit. Sure.

But, uh, Tron, what do you, what do you think of this one? I liked it. I thought it was good. Uh, fits is God is forward press action on his driver. He gets those hands forward, man. I was like, that was, that kind of really got impressed upon me in this one. I thought some of the stuff of like him watching TV

before he went to the course and go into the course and talk into the security guy and, you know, giving his name and like, I can't believe it. I'm turning. That was a great he's like, I'm pleading for him. That's a great piece. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, and it was just, you know, there was such delightful symmetry between this win and his USM win, you know, his, like, he's all the family stuff's good.

His brother, you know, kind of the way that they're different, like as far as how they approach the game and everything. I just thought there was a lot of different angles and I thought it was probably in the top half of the stronger episode this season. Again, I don't know if this episode makes it to air without him winning the US Open, right? It probably doesn't, that's fine, I think, right?

But I think that again, they paid off that moment really well and again, following families while somebody else is competing is good content. I think that is what made the Mito stuff work for me a little bit later on. And, you know, talking to his brother and just kind of reactions as, again, I hate to keep going back to this, but weird audio on the big golf moments was really frustrating all because as approached into 15 and the putt and all that stuff, but you know, kind of makes the golf fall a little bit short, but I'm getting heckled as well. So, Muscreddit NOU scoop on this one, creative editing on that one.

He was not, he was not heckled during the US Open in this year. He said he felt, I actually asked him, he's like, I felt, no, I felt like loads of support, especially having one of the USA and there people were more than friendly to me. So, so is that stuff just from like a sound stage? They're just having random people. I bet it happened. I think it is probably not like in his as in his ears It made it seem in the edit, right? It made it seem like to like this person just heckled you and everyone heard it Which can he he's either playing dumb or he was saying that, uh, no, he felt nothing but support. So. And going back to the kind of complaining about the PGH Championship and missing the,

the kind of distinctive defining shot from JT, I thought they did a really good job on 18 of capturing that moment. Other than the bonnie back. It's fairway shot. Yeah. I thought it worked, but I like bonnie back. What really made it work too was following all the way through to the celebration and Billy Foster standing up and you're going to get tired of winning these things and fits just being himself. Fits does not try to be anything he's not.

Also, again, he's not, he probably doesn't, he doesn't try to pretend to be the biggest personality out there And he just doesn't want to give a speech in front of people yet I find him I thought he was extremely likable in it and is just like really down to earth and just a Golfer that can go absolutely anywhere and probably not get stopped and made it all the way and won the US open at Same place you won the USA. I just thought it was there's just good storytelling I had a couple of notes here about like, possible spin-offs for this show. It was full swing spin-offs.

One obviously was just Jenna. And maybe you have Michelle Williams play her, but like just a Jenna show. But another one was PGA Real Estate Agent. Like who finds these guys 10 housing during tournaments? And like, what's the criteria that they have for them? Like they all look like the same house. But it's just kind of like,

could you just seem to give less of a shit about like his surroundings? Like all he needs is probably like a desk to enter his stuff at the end of the night. But it was just kind of fascinating to see like the social aspect of like, who hangs out with who do it in these weeks? Like who's cooking? Like, do they have like really regimented bed times? Does it depend on when their tea times are? Who's watching TV in

the morning? Are they watching golf? You know, like all that stuff was really cool. Yeah, that's a great just glimpse into that. I thought, you know, the cooks that people have in their chefs and things like that is, again, that's what stuck out to me about episode seven, which we're going to get to as well. I do, I didn't get a whole lot out of the friendship element. And maybe that's just because he's not my cup of tea, but like I thought that was kind of a weird aside that kind of dragged the structure of the episode a little bit and then didn't really get paid off at the end between fits and rap report. Who was the other, who was the other golfer who went in to that house? I forgot Thomas Peters. Like he obviously left a huge impression on me as

as a house guest. Yeah. Yeah. I, the one thing I'll say about the rap work stuff is like I do like again, I kind of made the ventriloquist dummy joke a little bit. Like, if we can humanize those people a little bit, I'm down for it. It's a little weird to have such a specific connection to a player and also have like an impartial take about it. But I'm sure that obviously people would say the same stuff with us and Max or a lot of other players. But it's, I don't know if there were meant,

would you guys take away from the Dustin aspect? Other than Chris, I know you do a lot of basketball stuff as well. I saw Sean Zock really criticizing his jump shot form. I don't know if you had any issues with that. No, I mean, I think it looked like it could use some work. He just seems like the kind of guy, if you ask him, who is favorite Star Wars character,

is he's like Darth Vader, you know what I mean? Like, he just seems like, and in some ways, I really respect it because he was just like, if that thing were, he's like, if somebody paid you more money to go to the office less, you would do it. And what does he say?

If you wouldn't, you're lying or something like that? Or if. And what does he say if you wouldn't your lying or something like that? Or if something's wrong with you if you wouldn't do this. I was like, yeah. Yeah. That part, I'm with him on, here's my reasons why. It's this age, it's more money to work less. That's my reasons why.

Stop at right before, something's wrong with you if you wouldn't do this. Conveniently ignores a lot of underlying factors in the season. Of course, yeah. It does. I have respected how much you have just been shut up and just gone about.

I have no doubt as to why that is, why you've done that, but I struggle with you projecting that onto other people as if it's that much of a no-brainer. So I only watched the episode once, but did they really drive home that he was basically the Lynch pin that kind of made stuff keep work? That's interesting.

Yeah. I was glad that the DJ shot approach shot into Oakmont, 72nd-Hole Oakmont. The greatest whole ever play. The resulting, but yeah, that was like two of the best shots. Like great use of archival footage. I love that. I very much believe like DJ that he was asked like, you know, do you think people will doubt you because of your, you're now that you're at live and you just very much of like a, I don't care. I work in his not here, I think 100 and you believe in it. 100% believe him, right? And yeah, it was actually that kind of a it was enjoyable to hear like

Dustin's voice of when he's like actually like hanging out and being casual like we've only hung out with him a couple times. But notably, he's just like, tell Joey to move his fucking cart like that's Dustin's actual voice rather than like the one he puts on in in front of a press conference and all that. But I don't. Paulina. I don't know why these two mixed into the same episode. That really didn't unless there's something kind of a missing theme wise on that. It didn't. Again, it just felt a little shallow on DJ's end, but I mean, the one takeaway I definitely did have was Paulina reminding us that Dustin's ready to show you who the fuck he is. I guess he did. Which I was like, I think he kind of already did. I was like, hey, I don't, I don't really think like anyone like is one single person doubting DJ's talent in abilities

accomplishments on the golf course because so I don't really know what he's going to show us because we kind of all believe that he is an incredible player. But that was just the, Dustin's ready to show you who the fuck he is was just wasn't the reason that like they they weave that one in here because all that stuff was going on right around US open. Yeah. I feel like the because like Pulitzer was saying,

Hey, like I didn't qualify for DS Open. And then the the first live event is the week after two weeks I feel like the, because like Pulitzer was saying, hey, like I didn't qualify for the US Open. And then the first live event is the week after, two weeks after here in London. And I feel like that's, they kind of did that to set up like, hey, Dustin Johnson went, you know, the Monday after the US Open or whenever he did. It would have been funny if they had made Dustin

and the juxtaposition of Brooks in that up that second episode. Yeah. And like Brooks is like racked with kind of anxiety about those and dozens like fuck it. But those guys in their relationship. Try and you mentioned the sort of friendship between Dan and Matt. I was kind of, I feel like, you know, so they use a lot of the same talking heads over and over again throughout the series.

I thought it would kind of have been cool if they had just let Amanda be a character in the show and her role as like an on-course person. Just, I would have just been kind of fascinating to see some of the mechanics of like, what happens when a guy comes off the course and he's blue it and she's got an interview on it. Those are real moments.

Yeah, and she's seen these guys at their highs and lows. And yeah, I thought that giving that, like some texture to that would have been cool, but that was my only other note on this episode really. This was kind of, I feel like this at golf courses where I can walk off a golf course sometimes and be like, it just didn't quite do it all the way for me, but I can't tell you why. And like I would go to like Andy and be like, help me out here. do it all the way for me, but I can't tell you why.

And like I would go to like Andy and be like, help me out here. Like what's, what's, like, he's like, yeah, well, they need to expand the greens. Oh, you're right. I can't get all the way. Like I couldn't tell you what I felt like was missing from this one.

I can't say it out loud, but it just felt like it didn't get. I just don't think Matt or Dustin wanted to be characters. So like I think that you get like little pieces of Matt's analytic stuff and Dustin just being like, this is my statement on this whole thing. But like even the scene where like the sort of Dustin, Johnson, larger extended family is having dinner and not talking.

Yeah. And it's just like is this a normal dinner for you guys? Do you start to open up a cab and let it breathe and then just not speak like what's happening? Dustin liking very silly live memes of dancing makes a lot of sense to me. That makes that was adding up for me very, very quickly. Sorry, everybody's talking about the aces, all right?

Everybody's talking about the aces. Again, watch this with my wife. And again, I'm like, am I, am I being too hard on this when I say like, fits his iron shot into 18 at Southern Hills on Saturday? They used a wood sound for that. And like, she was the one that brought that up. Like, that was the wrong audio. And I'm like, God, exactly, right?

Like, this is not, this is not the way this should go. But, well, they like, it was the same thing with like they, they, they, they said something about Rory's last major being, I think, Liverpool. It's like, no, Rory's last major was Valhalla, right? It's just, I don't know. I know it's Tiki tack, but like, it's also like a, like a 10, tens of millions of dollars in production. Like, it's, you think some of the details would be puttin' up on stuff like that? Moving on, episode six, Tony Fiennell and Colin Morakawa. I think this one adds up to like over 100% for me and like pause, I don't know how to say this,

but like, there's a lot of stuff that did not work for this. Yeah, I thought was a very good episode at times. You know, there's a lot of stuff that was. I think this song was greater than the parts. Yeah, I don't, I definitely said that horribly, but a lot of stuff they fall, they're woefully short on. But revisiting, like, or visiting kind of for the first time

as I've ever learned it, Fina was background. Like I don't think I understood the, and going to where there's dents in the garage door of them hitting golf balls in the garage into a mattress and using the one day going one day a week to the range to figure out if it was going straight or not. That was incredible. Like that was incredible. Juck's opposed against private jet life and and all the other, you know, they don't really get into a ton of like the economic backgrounds of a lot of these players, but that was a really great nugget. Tony's dad was quite a narrator in story driver as well. I thought it was really cute to watch like the putting drills he

was doing with his kid too. Yeah, that was really, really. I was like, that's handy. I'm going to remember that. You know, it's, yeah, obviously a black eye for Randy and I that that Tony was very, very likable. That was tough for us. No, that's never been your position. I'm just kidding. It was a little bit of a, I don't know, a little bit of a no one believed in us. You know, Kansas City Chiefs moment there when he does go and wins back to back events.

All these people are saying he couldn't win. It's like, yeah, that's because he hasn't fucking won. And like that's not like a hot take. Like that's a that's a pretty like, you know, either a you can use some of our podcasts audio. I don't care. Like put me on the record on that. That's I felt like they were talking directly to you.

And that's fine. But like put that stuff out there rather than just like, oh, you know, many people are saying this. It's like, well, that's not totally unfair here, guys. And you can't just cherry pick like two of the weakest fields of the year. And then you're saying like, this guy's beaten a shit at everybody now. So he's not. Oh, I don't know.

I did really like this one. I liked that. I thought Tony was like a great fit for the human interest angle that you're mentioning, Chris, right? It's like, whereas Fitzpatrick probably wasn't. And that episode probably should have been something different. And I think being able to almost flex like what is, like one episode can be a little bit different from the others while they still add up to,

you know, chapters of the same story seems like maybe a way to change it going forward. When I was watching Joel and when I watched Tony, I was like, I would love to get a focus group of PGA's pros to tell me what their favorite episodes were. And like, you remember that part in Jerry McGuire? I feel like it's at the end when Rod and Jerry are hugging. Yes. And the players like, why aren't we like that?

You know what I mean? Like, I kind of want to know what PGA players watch Tony and watch Jollar like, fuck, like I could have done that. Like I could have been, I could have shown who I am and like shown who my wife is and shown who my family is. I didn't know that, but like, or are they like, no, I thought it was pretty cool when JT and Justin were on the jet and playing cards and then winning.

That's how I want to be depicted. Right. But yeah, I thought that the Tony stuff was, was pretty lovely. I got how I want to be depicted. Right. But yeah, I thought that the Tony stuff was pretty lovely. I got it was cool to see inside his hotel room and see him, you know, like reacting to his son's golf scores and stuff like that. And then the obviously like the juxtaposition between Tony and Colin was really good.

The question I had for you guys all, I maybe I'll just throw it to you is like, I am familiar with the art of narrative manipulation when it comes to being a story editor or somebody's like, okay, here's this transcript of this interview and I'm like, that's it. That's the poll quote. And here's how we're going to set up what's its stake and why this story, why now. And it just felt a little bit like who in the world is asking whether or not Tony is allowed to travel to this fairly? A lot a bit, not a little bit like who in the world is asking whether or not Tony is allowed to have travel is a lot of it, not a little bit, a lot of it. I just like they went back to it like five times. I was like, dude, we literally talk about phenomore than any one on the planet.

And not once has it ever been like, is it because he's traveling with his family? Like, is that what's holding him back? Now, I think there's an interesting element to professional golf life of how do you, like, you're on the road so much and not like, it's not like being an NBA player where you are flying in and flying out and you know, you're getting home many times and you have short stents, like you're gone for six, seven days. If you have an off week the next week and if you don't, you might be gone three straight weeks.

So are you flying with your family? Do you have stay in the same hotel room? Do you have a newborn? And they wakes you up and all that. Like there's an element to how you handle that. Now is they present it as in like, it's got to be one of the other, man. Family or golf, what's it going to be? Like, what are you going to focus on? And like, yeah, when they travel with you, your scores go way up. Like I, I don't think that's the reality of it at all. I don't think it's an either or thing. I appreciate it as quote of like, you know, why can't I have a good family life and good golf?

I just don't think that like tug is nearly as straightforward as they kind of tried to shoehorn in there. That was one of the biggest narrative issues I have with the whole show was them kind of forcing the family narrative on us. Cause I, I don't know, that did not seem like what the rest of the series was like either. Because all the Tony stuff was so authentic.

And so like, like, I don't even like pancakes. I wanted to sit down at that, at that counter and eat those pancakes that it was making that morning. And, you know, it was just, but it was like, it just kind of hollows that out a little bit. I think there's another way to tell that story about, you know, his wife losing her father and then him losing his mother. And it's just, you know, like that's heartwarming stuff. And I like, I thought it was good the way that they brought it to, you know, St. Andrews or the way they brought it to, you know, forward into some of the late summer events up in Minnesota and Michigan. But yeah, it was just kind of a weird, I don't know, it was just like, it just made it feel a little bit more hollow.

I guess. I couldn't tell if it was coming out of Colin. If it was coming out of Colin being like, I can't imagine traveling with like all these kids and having all these distractions because my whole life right now is like, what is the maximum amount of efficiency that I can have for the highest level of performance?

Which I thought was a fascinating little portrait of that, like in a micro, but I, you know, I've never ever, ever would have thought like, oh, the reason Tony Fino is 11th instead of 3rd is because like his two kids were there. Yeah. It is a, I thought some of the stuff around Colin was like, they were gassing him up, maybe a little bit too much for my,

like, the tiger stuff. Stop it. This guy's a super, like a superstar and he is tiger, like he has whiffs of tiger 2.0. And it's like, yeah, he's a really good ball striker. And he's one, you know, two majors in his first two years. But like, and like, I'm a big believer. Like, I think he's going to be a very successful dude, but like, that just felt almost a little

unfair. Oh, yeah. And that's on production, like, you know, kind of putting the narrators, the commentators in a tough spot of like, like, can you talk about that relationship to Tiger Woods? Cause no one, I've not heard like one person like make that an actual theme, right? It's just, that's just where it felt a little forced. Now, I think like, is there something to, hey, when we're talking, I call on when's two majors at a young age, like, how do you project the rest of

his career? Like a part of that would be like, what's it like once you get married? What's it like once you have kids? And like, that's where you have the female thing on the other side. And maybe that story is like a little harder to tell than I'm making it as flipping as that. But yeah, it was just what disjointed episode. I thought the kind of quick pop-ins to the tournaments where they're not really following

them. Don't really give you much of behind the scenes and it didn't. We going back to the masters this late in the season. This is where I feel like they lost the thread of that stuff. Yeah, but like also like Tony's dad wearing jeans inside the Augusta Clubhouse, that was sick. Like I'm way in on that. Like I I'm way in on the some of the behind the scenes stuff they got. But the Scott Fierci drive. That was very sick.

Another highlight, more cow was shooting down the shirts that Adidas was trying to put him in. That was great. Like the Nike guys need to have a say in these rooms. Like you got it's on you guys now to be able to say no to these guys. I've we've all been on those calls and meetings where like something gets pitched to you in front of you behind people that put a lot of thought into it. You got to be like, yeah, I don't know, man. It's a baby for me. And like that was a great clip to leave in there. It'd be an alpha. So to be fair, it was it was more about the combination of the pants and the shirt.

It was the olive pants with that shirt versus the shirt itself. It was also, it was amazing how he was like, I'm an olive, if I wear olive pants, it's a white shirt and that's me. And it's like, how do you even know that about yourself? Are you wearing white pants, Chris? You got an olive sweatshirt on. So I do.

That would have been a veryirt on. I do. That would have been a very meta joke. I think we're doing winners and losers of this episode. I mean, the adidas progressiders got to take the L. I'm just going to talk. I don't think that's going to be perceived. Tell me what the challenge is. Yeah.

Shout out to Ian Baker Finch, talking about how much bad luck Tony's had in big events. Yeah. When he gave Sean. That was cool. And for Sean Foley. We can close the case on that one. Sean Foley putting a bullet in you guys that rip on this drink, the field of all the events. I was appreciated that. Sean Foley was great.

I think he was one of the better kind of commentary color guys amongst this whole thing. I love the fact that his tats are showing and like he's got the wacky glasses on. Sean Foley's just, he's just interesting. I'm with you. Fascinating character. We need to get him on the pod. I've got his contact info. I'm going to follow up on that. Kind of tiptoed, like, tried to tackle race in golf for like a very hot minute and didn't really revisit it. It was kind of like a thing that you know needed to be kind of all in and brace is like, is that what you know part of Tony and Collins identity is that about race and about how they stand out and as opposed to the lot of the other race

issues and golf. I don't know how well you could do that. Maybe they didn't give you enough stuff to work with, but they kind of dig it tap into it and don't really revisit it or tie the loop on that one. That was kind of a tough one to go half into, like I'm currently doing right now, but. Go ahead, you got another 30 minutes. You got to unpack it. I mean, there's something there,

and I know, like it just, you know, Tony relating to tiger with his different skin color, but it just didn't seem to have like a different, a through line on that part. Yeah, it comes off kind of, kind of, right. When you just, just deep your toe into it a little bit. I think that's it for episode six. Seven, seven's a banger.

Banger. Thank you. Yeah. TC Hayley. I loved, I loved the saw his stuff. And I just, I was bored to tears by the walko and me to stuff. Yeah. This, I like the side stuff. I think walk was, like, I give a show.

Like, yeah, totally. I would die for that man. I would I would give my life in exchange for solace. I would like I don't know what it is. He is just the perfect amount of relatable and just like makes you forget that he is so over-talented. He's so likable. He's so I I've not said this on the podcast, but I put on Instagram. But since learned somewhat recently that I'm expecting my wife and I're expecting a child for the first time in July, and it has made me wildly emotional about like ridiculous things. Like just and when revisiting when he blew the waste management and he's crying, like I started crying immediately. Like I was just like, dude, there's like two athletes that could make me feel that and he is one of them

and I don't know how, but that was just awesome, freaking content and- Who's the other one? I was like, I'm gonna shoot. Put a disclaimer in there. Like there's gotta be someone else maybe in there. Peercy. It's gotta be.

Peercy. Yeah, baby. Well, Sally, it's funny. You know, saw his so endearing and relatable that he made them forget that he was also like a really good player as well. Like they, they made it seem like this guy came out of nowhere. He completely came out of nowhere. Nobody ever heard of him before. He's, he was like one of the best collegiate players the last 10 years. Yeah. I think it's also just how he carries himself though, too. He's so self deprecating and. Yeah.

Him doing laundry out of a cardboard box. And just like, I'm just throwing all this shit in here at once. We're going to let it rip. Like, it was great. And you can just tell he's like, I'm just going to go to the furniture store and buy some furniture. You know, it's like, that's, that's definitely where that couch comes from. Is it common for these guys to

Watch the tournaments that they're not in like Does that I couldn't tell if that was staged a little bit or whatever, but him watching me Do and be like oh man, I feel so bad for him was that like Uh, that felt staged to me, but yeah, I think it's common for them to say that they don't watch it But I think they are always gonna watch the last yeah, I think it's common for them to say that they don't watch it, but I think they are always going to watch the last couple of holes for the most part, but that was like a very weird, I don't know if it's green screen or whatever it was. It seemed like it's great too. Yeah, I thought it felt very post-produced. Yeah, you've looked at, I paused it, I looked at it and they're really closer, they're projecting that up on the screen and it doesn't quite. He's probably watching

below Dacker something. I think afterwards, can you see something about say say something about the 18th? Oh, yeah, it's hard. It's hard stuff. The stuff from his dad about like, you know what? I'm kind of like, this is only a good thing for him and he's going to use it and all that. Like, that was awesome. Watching his parents watch him. Yeah. Like you said, all this stuff after the round where, you know, like, but Chris,

that was one instance where like, I would have loved to have seen them roll the interview that he did with Amanda in there. Or, you know, whatever the, because I think like you kind of saw her pop in there and she's like, oh, like, I need to walk around the other way because I don't want to get in the shot. And like, no, it's like, like, you want to see just the regular interactions after this tournament, after this, this demoralizing defeat, you know? I thought it was so incredibly powerful, the way they worked in his dad in the interviews

and how happy go lucky he is, how smiling he is. And this part really got me like hearing the voice of his dad cheering on Saheth at like age seven in a junior tournament. Yeah. And then hearing into the waste management like that was freaking amazing. And Hannah made a really great point when we were watching it was like she it's of interesting how many people in this little streak here of episodes talked about tiger influencing their golf and their parents being kind of clueless on the golf.

Like both Tony and with his dad and Sawhith with his dad. And I just, that was an interesting note that she put out. Also, I want the go Sawhith shirt that is a great teacher was wearing or whatever that was. Oh, that was such a good, good little nugget. The teacher coming to us. Yeah, play, that was so good.

I mean, obviously, we kind of have danced around it, but the just absolutely letting it breathe, he comes out of the media. They follow him the whole time until he just kind of collapses in his parents' arms. That was the best part. They just sit on that shot for just. Can you imagine if he had like cut back the Dylan and Dylan was like, he was so upset. Yeah. And his dad hugs him and says, I'm, I'm really proud of you. Like, yeah, like, God, that's just, it's life. That's golf. That's everything right there.

It was just way better than there was one and eight about like, like that too with Scottie's dad basically saying, I love you. So proud of you. That sort of thing. And like, she props the side for going up and talking to the media after that. You know, I can never, I'm just, it still paces me off when I see that bounce that that ball.

Who is such an unnatural bounce. I still don't understand it, you know, it, uh, and, yeah, just the whole emotion of the dad watching it, like, oh, it's, it, it, it's brother is like, oh, it's center of the green. I'm like, oh, God, damn it. It really was center of the green. Like, how? I know they've taken that bow.

It's like, don't understand it. But it's been. I think Sawathe is right in that matrix I was talking about earlier. I've just feeling like you're watching some version of yourself, right? Like you watch him get into the contention in those tournaments. You're just like, oh my God, dude, you don't know what you're doing, man. Like this thing could go off the rails at any minute. And it's just, it's so fucking fun to watch him watch.

He's one of the guys that I think if they could do, I'll be really curious to see obviously like season two is gonna is gonna be dictated by results to some extent. But whether or not they're like, you know what, there's a couple of guys here that really work. And we're gonna rely on them because that's what drive to survive. Don't you? Like they have, they have their go-to characters that people have developed these sort of parasocial relationships with and yeah. I mean like I would definitely sign me up for more seasons of the Sawas show.

But would you die for him? That's the question. That's hard. No, I'm too busy dying for Mito Pereiro for it. Well I think too it's like I think one of the concerns for future seasons is like, are there any guys to dislike anymore? Like there's, there's guys like Saehit, there's guys, you know, there's, I'm trying to think who else I like. I mean, there's, there's the space. There's the JT's, there's the Tony's, but like, you know, like, all right, Brooks is out the door. How do they treat live from here on out?

Like they're still covering the majors. How is that? How is that treated in 2023? Dude, I think, I don't know if they will, but like covering live this year, especially if things get like bleak and even more like dystopian. Now that like the juice is kind of gone and it's, you know, just get another and just wait and and following a range goats breakfast session

and be like pretty, pretty fascinating. Uh, that would be interesting. I think that might not be a full swing problem. That might be a golf problem though. For sure. Like, oh, it is. I've heard you guys talk about this. But if there's just like, even when you have a quote unquote good leaderboard, you don't

have like rooting interests. Yeah. Or if you're rooting for something, you're like, unquote good leaderboard, you don't have like rooting interests, or if you're rooting for something, you're like, I like them all, man. How am I really rooting against Scotty? Like, cause usually what happens if a guy wins a bunch, I'll be like, you know what, let's change a card here. You know what I mean?

We're done here. Take a break, Scotty. That's legitimately where we're at with Scotty right now. Cause it's like, there's nothing, there's nobody else to like, like Scotty's one of the like most neutral vanilla Yeah, he's just like hook a man Yeah, yeah, so like I've like reached this point where I'm like creating my own reality of like you know what?

I think the flip side of this episode John I know you were kind of saying this but but the Mito stuff was pretty flat for me. The joke about Mr. Oxelong from the little kids, I think I might have cut that, that was really weird. It shows the person out. It is, my cock's going back to it. They just kept whipping the horse on that one, but those kids were like seven.

That was just, it was very strange. Can I pause on this part for a moment? I found Mito to be likeable in this kind of. I didn't even find him to be dislike like like, unlikeable. I just I just thought this whole part was like way too long and drawn out and like very long and drawn out and a bit boring. But I think here's what the lens I viewed it through. He came off to me as a fish out of water. His, you know, it made the Latin American connection, like, is very real. And you can see why in this episode why they're all at live right now. Like his wife speaks in Spanish to, to the cameras, right? Like she speaks some English, but it's like very clearly like these people are,

are out of their comfort zone on the PGA tour. And when I lived abroad, that is kind of like what I sought out. I hung out with a lot of Americans during my time in Amsterdam. Like, that was just a comfort. Like, it was really hard to ingratiate into a local culture, especially with a traveling road show like they have, capturing them speaking Spanish to each other shows way more personality than if

when they're trying to speak English to each other and English to the camera. And that to me, just kind of, that was the first thing I thought of, man, was like, do these people, like are, they don't say this out loud, but I can see them kind of struggling potentially with like acclimating into American lifestyle.

Even if they've been here for a little while and that, you know, they're talking about the Peace goal stuff and things like that was just very much of like, these people come from a different background and they kind of assimilate in this way. And like the fact they all kind of made this decision together makes a lot more sense to me. That was. Dude, I lived in Ireland for six months. I thought I was on Saturn.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, nobody wanted to hang out with me. You know, like, I was just like, but I like, I totally know what you mean, where you're like, I guess like, you know, that can be like a really alienating experience to say, nothing of the fact if you're adding onto it, this level of like competition and performance you have to do. I, this was just another really cool portrait for me. I like the Mito stuff in terms of him being a talking head was a little bit of a dud. I thought his wife was really interesting watching of him being a talking head was a little bit of a dud. I thought his wife was really interesting, watching her run from a hole to hole

and like jinxing him by being like, I, like, going to win. She's like, we're going to win. I was like, no, you're not. Tron, could you tell what the chef was making when he was doing like the steak dish? Like, he had a little garlic paste going, like I couldn't tell what was happening

but it looked really delicious. He had some time on top of there, just looked like steaks with like a garlic and thyme butter on there. And like I think it was, it was something to where like maybe I just don't think Mito is that interesting. I'm totally in on the theme of it all because that's one of the things that I appreciate

the most about Yostroian guys as well. It's like they're on the other side of the world and they're all a million miles from home. And, you know, plus you have the language barrier with all the Latin American guys. So I totally get that and they're bond with, you know, Munoz and Sergio and Joaquin and Carlos Ortiz and everything. But like, and like some of the stuff with Waco was great,

right, like the Piscola thing or like I was totally shook by the way They opened a wine bottle. I was like I'd like rewind that four or five times. I was like wait You're not like you're trying to just pull it up Using the leverage or whatever I didn't know that Mito would like quit playing golf for however long he did I didn't know that like they had been you know kind been the two guys in Chile and golf and ascended that way, that that's how their relationship functioned. I just felt like it was just too long. I just felt like they just kept showing these little interview clips of Mito that I was just like,

I just don't think these are very interesting. It definitely like gives Mito an outsized, like if you're again just coming into golf, you would maybe walk away thinking Mito is a lot bigger player in the golf world than he actually is, you know. Grant, again, if he doesn't come close to winning the P.J. Championship and blow it in spectacular fashion, his episode probably never, never sees a lot of day, I would guess. So, but again, I thought it was great of, they delivered on the drama of the moment on this one, as much as I was kind of hard on how they delivered the J.T. part, like the major feel it a lot,

like a really good audio clips of like, dude, he's going kind of fast here, like he didn't even take a lap around the hole, and then he hits it way past the hole, and it just made like, you know, Munoz and Neiman standing greenside mean a little bit more when you had that kind of build up to it. So there was, there was a lot there to this episode. Part of it that may have just rubbed me wrong was like, it felt like it was too late in the season

to be doing that episode. It's a good point. You're like talking about the rookies and everything that happened in that episode. It's also though that that that that that sure it's like the it's like the the the covid games that the NBA was playing where they were playing everything in with the bubble is also and I just get playing southern hills was anybody else overgrown off by the amount that meito looked at his phone while driving? Not just like, I'm like, I, like, everybody does it, but he like straight up had it in

his face while he was driving. I just get a driver, man. Like, it's like, it should have been a chef. That's why he had to go to live. So he could avoid, you know, could afford a driver. He's going to be a team mobile guy. He's going to a team mobile. God shoot there.

Final episode. Rory McElroy. Dej, take this one. Listen, no bigger Rory fan than me. I think that's, I think that's well documented. Just for reasons that I can sympathize with and empathize with, it just seemed like a lot of strings attached on this one. And it seemed like a lot of Rory, you know, he talked about it in his press conference today.

I think he, he came to it like pretty late, like late, pretty last minute. Like, hey, can, can we please get you to participate? You've been a big part of this season. And I think understandably he did that with probably a lot of stipulations. I think that's where some of the VR stuff must have come from. I think the emphasis on the FedEx cup stuff, a lot of the like, it's just so much of make goods almost. Yeah. And again, it becomes solid what you were saying earlier where it's like, man, what if I told you that we had a super, super intimate portrait of Rory from the 2022 season, I'd be like, dude, here's my credit card information. But when you, when you try to set it up and you

try to whip through all this stuff so fast and it's just like, here's who Rory is, here's what his career means. Here's how he lives in the shadow of Tiger. Here's what he did earlier in this year. Here's what's going on with the PJ tour. Here's his role in it. Here's the Delaware meeting. Here's the open at St. Andrews. Oh, and by the way, he won the FedEx Cup. It's just like, it's never gonna be more than, just feeling like you're reading a Wikipedia page, right?

And so, a lot of it, I just, I'm not going to be greedy. I'm glad we have it. I'm sure if I watched it in other 18 times, I would glean like some little micro insights from the way that things happen, but I just, I don't know that. I really want to watch it another 18 times.

It was kind of just a really, really fast, kind of boring overview on like the most interesting player that there is. After F7, I was like, holy shit, we're gonna go through this entire thing without getting any look at the playoffs or the FedEx cuff or the tour championship for any of that. I was like, that's wild. Man, I can't

believe the tour allowed that. And then all of a sudden, it was like, just wait. We saved it all for the last one. I think you do. This is the off the FedEx cup, though. Like for again, brand new this year, like you have to, like the season long champion. Otherwise, it's like, well, why do you play all these things? Like that's, uh, but the way that they do it, and especially with the bony, Verra drop at the end, they really do make it seem like it's every boys dream to, to win the FedEx cup. You know what I mean? And that when, when all you've talked about for the entire season is just like the,

the only thing that matters is the major. Yeah. And you have the most interesting players trying to win the most interesting tournament at the most interesting venue. And you're just like, oh yeah, now I didn't quite get it done. Anyway, we're on the East side. We did it done this guy, but we didn't. Yeah.

Yeah. And it is. I thought that this episode was a real victim of Rory's candor over the course of the year. Like, this episode couldn't live up to like literally Rory's own press cop That's good point There was never a moment where I was like over the course of the year the thing that's been was so fascinating was watching him Take on this mantle, but also become like a spokesperson for the game and the psychology of the professional players that were staying with PGA tour

So to watch it then get to this point. And it's like, oh, actually, let's put in this VR stuff. Let's put in golf pass. Let's like, let's emphasize the FedEx championship that I won. I know that there is some fun, cool stuff that I'm sure we're going to get to in here. But this was probably, yeah. And this is probably the biggest letdown episode for me, especially coming out of the run in the middle of the season, where you're like, well, I really feel like I know

Finau, Damon, you know, C. Heath, like, was so much better to get to Rory and have it be DJ, like what you're saying is like Wikipedia TV is tough. Some good, like, behind the scenes stuff of Rory saying, like, you know, I've probably steered too hard into the contentious part of the last year when he's given a speech at a golf pass thing

or whatever it was. I thought that was an interesting little nugget again, kind of showing Rory's self-awareness. Rory reflecting on being able to list off the previous 50 Masters and Open Champion winners, like juxtaposing that with like Ian Polter of what you got to hear like both sides here right guys and it's just kind of represents both sides of the coin on again where it's very easy to be for me to root on for one guy on one side of that aisle. It's great to hear you know in this episode as well they kind of shoe one other stuff Like basically the live guy just admitting their wash, like Polter especially, and then Capca kind of explaining

a way that he's proud, you know, is to take care of his grandkids. I could, no, again, no one's saying because it's a better product, but you're gonna kind of revisit everyone's decisions in that enjoyed Porter in a bucket hat asking Finau about Rory, of course, getting that part of there. I think it does, in my mind, it makes Cam's decision

look really bad in comparison to everything Rory had to say about his responsibility for the game and the long-term vision that he sees for golf and comparing just taking Saudi Prince money to the guy that actually wants to look out for the sustainability of the game is very representative to me of the underlying part of how guys made decisions over the last year.

And some guys view it through the lens Roy does and some guys definitely do not. And it's just been a, I thought that was an interesting juxtaposition there. And like I'm working in the questions of Cam kind of deflecting at the British Open after having won was an interesting kind of way to book end all of that decision-making. Where I'm not sure if that's like totally fair to cam. Like, I don't know, I mean, like, I think

he's given thoughtful answers to the live stuff and, and in the context of like episode seven, where you're talking about these guys being a world away from home and the game being a global game. Like I think Cam's got his reasons for choosing to get a live that are probably more valid than some of these other guys' reasons. And one of them too is like Cam cares about the majors and like doesn't care about playing week to week golf. You know, or he doesn't think he's going to play into his 50s. All that stuff. But again, I think that's kind of like a victim of like not going after themes, right? Just going after character profiles and not, not having cam on here. But I think the, you know, episode eight, I think has some of the best, the best on course footage and behind the scenes context

and footage. And, you know, I thought thought that some of the crowd shots there, I don't know, they just like brought that one to life. Like, I mean, Rory's bunker shot in front of, yeah, it was just insane, you know. Or I don't know, it was just like, there was some cool, cool, like, angles and stuff that you saw there. I was blown away, the Palm Beach Part 3, you got a ton of, a ton of run there.

I was like, wait, I know that place. I've eaten there before. And then I got, I got a huge kick out of Jack just being confused as hell. And like leech, and like, Leech Trevino just being so cogent and funny and coherent. And like, and then Jack just, just not knowing what the hell is going on. I was great. I would say on the British Open stuff, they could have ripped my heart out way worse than they did. Exactly. Like, reaching there and just grab it from my chest. Okay.

Like it, it, that was a horror show. If you were, if you were rooting for Rory, that was a horror show of you had to lead. You just like, can't get it done. And you got run down from behind by an insanely hot guy. It just like that felt very glance through. Seems like the absence of Cam as a participant in the show, loomed over that. Yes. How they were constructing that narrative.

And it was like, we can't make this seem like Rory got his heart torn out and shown to him if we can't show who did it. Yeah. You know, and like they just obviously just punted on Cam. Good behind the scenes clip of Rory and Pazner talking about, uh, J using the word mandatory in a presser about, uh, certain events and how the players didn't love that and very quote to have like a, we've all just gotten a little soft. I print that and put it in the locker room every single week. I need, like, I'm going to hold you guys to

that. If you are serious about, uh, you know, kind of up in the Apple card on how you guys do things, but that was great, Lil' Nugget. It's funny. I've never actually seen past your... I don't think I have either. He's always been like this peripheral character that I'd probably reference him once a week on a pod. Never actually knew what he looked like or anything.

It totally threw me through a loop there. It was a bizarre ending too with Rory. It's, totally threw me for a loop there. It was, it was a bizarre ending too with Rory. It's just like talking to the, I don't know if it was the East Lake bartender or the, the, the, the, like I legitimately think it was like the, the William Hill, like, I can't wrap. I sure to God, it was all like William Hill, wines and stuff. And I think he was like the William Hill account rep. Oh shit, you wanted to like, I get out of here. So that if you, I got bad. And it's just like him by, you know, by himself in, in the East Lake locker room and like this

weirdly introspective moment. But after winning the FedEx Cup, which they haven't really explained means anything during the, like this entire arc of the season. It was just a weird kind of finality to it. Which again, I think it's like, if you're going for that intentionally, I think it's like a very literary like man. Progolf is fucking lonely type of moment, but I'm not sure if that's what they were necessarily going for. It seemed a little more triumph at the not. So, if you had to guess, is that the last time we see Rory on the show?

No, I would say no. I think I kind of struggle with the idea of you can't, these guys have to be heavily involved in order to kind of tell their story. You know, I get it, like you kind of need to be able to add some color to it, but it just felt like they pundit on Tiger completely because he wasn't involved. And I think there's plenty of stuff out there that would have helped you cover Tiger in some way. I don't, I don't know how the rights to all that stuff works. If you can, if you pick up a, like, we, I had a conversation with the US Open with Paul Azinger that like the Netflix cameras, just like

all of a sudden were on us with a boom mic in the middle of it. And we're kind of like, shit, did that all get picked up? What part, we knew at what point they got there. But like, do you have all that? That was so nervous, I couldn't even spit. And but then like afterwards, like we had to get like, they asked for like releases for all of it. And we were both just kind of like,

I don't even remember what I said there. I would rather not. So I don't know if like, if you catch tiger audio in the putting green, do you have to like get a release from them? I don't know how all that works. But I think that was a legitimate concern for a few journalists I've talked to that are like,

yo, like you just recorded like an entire off the record conversation that I had. Like, what the fuck man? You know, like, where's that footage going? Where's that, you know, and it's, I guess it's a lesson in like, you know, kind of where and when to have these conversations, but yeah, interesting conversation. But I think that also kind of, it kind of, I guess as we're wrapping up here, it makes me think like, man, what are you ever going to make like an authentic version of this

show considering what happened with Drive to Survive? And that's what kind of lingered over my head the whole time was just like all of this is in response to Drive to Survive. None of it's going to be organic. Everybody knows what Drive to Survive was, everybody knows what made it work, what parts people love, what parts people memed. They're trying to both like create those moments

and avoid those moments. And it just is, Chris, maybe this is a question for you as you're watching these types of shows evolve, but like, do you ever think there's going to be another truly organic version of a show like that? Or we always just going to be like, well, this is the best of what we got and hopefully it adds up to good enough. Yeah, well, I mean, so they did the tennis one and they've got this season of full swing. And as you get further and further away from the original copy or the original article, I think that these shows need to have their own identity. And, you know, one way I think that the golf one could succeed is to maybe decouple itself

from it's got to tell the stories of the guys who either won or came in second. You know what I mean? The guys who are, it can't just be this binary thing. It has to be about personalities like whether or not we'll ever see a phenomenon like drive to survive is almost like saying, will we ever see a phenomenon like last dance? Like, I mean, in some ways, that's Michael Jordan's story and there's only one Michael Jordan,

but in another way, it's like no one ever told the story that way. And this guys all were just like, I have scores to settle. I am, it's been long like, I have scores to settle. I am going to, I'm, it's been long enough. I'm willing to talk about Rodman and Vegas and everything about like, you know, Pippin's contract and all this stuff. Maybe it being contemporaneous, you know, with it being like, this is about this thing that just happened eight months ago. These guys are never going to loosen up enough to be actually like really can't it about it, which will put a ceiling on the show.

And I also, maybe I'm overstating this, but I, I don't think you can really like overestimate the amount of impact that COVID had on drive to survive and the last dance too. Like they both kind of took off during this like content vacuum, right? Oh my God, dude, we did, we did pods about last dance as if it was the actual NBA season. Exactly. Exactly. And that's something else to talk about. Yeah. And that's where it like drives or I mean, bullshows, but the last dance, especially is, is obviously phenomenal. But

a part of like that fire breaking contain and just being everywhere has to do with that too. And that's where I keep coming back to of like, we had an awesome discussion. There's a lot of really fun little nuggets and moments to pick out of. But like that's where I keep coming back to of like we had an awesome discussion. There's a lot of really fun little nuggets and moments to pick out of. But like, do I think this is gonna break through and break in pain and like all of a sudden, all my non-Golf friends are gonna be asking me about full swing, like I just really don't.

And to your point earlier, DJ, you're asking like about whether or not this is good in a world of tons of good is the difference in the environment it gets released into as drivers five. This is NBA All-Star Weekend. Ant-Man is coming out. Last of us is really good. People have lives.

People are going out. People are celebrating birthdays. So yeah, Sickos will watch all eight episodes and then listen to a three hour podcast about it. I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't know that it's necessarily going to like all of a sudden, you know, there's going to be like this new record crowd at, um, at a tournament in two weeks because of this. How, how many seasons of Drive to Survive are there now? Four? I think the fifth one's about to come out, right? I think so. And it seemed like the first, I don't seem like two and three were like really, really good. And then four kind of sucked.

Where I think that's maybe one way that like this one could kind of differentiate itself is like if they actually find, if they do three, four, five seasons and really find the plot and like, it's something that's very like inherently difficult with golf because there's so many competitors and there's so many tournaments and all that, of if they, if it takes them a few seasons to get the lay of the land, and then they nail the formula. Yeah.

You know? I have zero, like it is, we've probably undersold how hard it is like to do season one of this, like in a new atmosphere. Yeah. And unsure sign-ons from a lot of people. So again, so many stakeholders, so much, you know,

shotgun shooting everywhere, trying to figure out what your storylines are going to be. And then get thrown all these curveballs like, I have no doubt that this show will improve. And again, there's a lot of really good stuff in this first season too. I think it's, I just think overall that it's probably, I got, I go back to our first videos we've done, our first podcast we've done, like everything changes with some experience and some familiarity and all that stuff. And I don't know, maybe hopefully I'll listen to this and take all of our recommendations. But I did have one more question, like kind of top down that I wanted to ask you guys,

because you know some of these dudes But you also you know you're around the game so much more who isn't in this season That you just can't like you're like why why I mean I for me obviously and you guys would say this to his max but Who what was the show missing in terms of personalities? I'm surprised this is probably low hanging fruit So I'm gonna jump in and take it right away, but I'm surprised it is probably low hanging fruit, so I'm going to jump in and take it right away. But I'm surprised there wasn't a Harry Higgs episode considering not only what happened

to waste management, not only the fact that he's a really big personality, but the fact that he's kind of opened up both like on our podcast and in other features and a lot of people have like written some really good stuff about him this year of almost grappling with this kind of, I don't want to say as strong as like depression, but almost like this deep uncomfortability of like what his career has kind of turned into, right? As far as like, God, am I like the big kind of joky guy? I really want to be the like world-beater guy instead. And how do I balance those things? And I think that just ironically, like makes for a pretty good episode,

but I also have him in mind for, if he does one episode about taking a shirt off on 16, then he's that guy forever. So I both like think that's really interesting, and would love to watch it, and it would be one of the best episodes of the season, but I also like keep coming back to like, man, when you're trying to win golf tournaments,

I for sure get why you're not signing up to do that. You know, and so he jumps off the page for me, but I'm curious what else you guys think. I think it'd be an interesting one. Like maybe they do him, you know, year two where it's, it's, you know, let's say he, you know, hopefully he starts playing better, but like, let's say it's, you know, it's kind of the flip side of like everybody that they showed was some level of success, right? And hey, what's it like to like use your card? You know, what's it like to like, there's a downside here.

There's, you know, like they should do a Q school one. Like when they have Q school, like that, that's a very cool thing. Like I think some of this strongest stuff would be like, like do a rookie orientation one, you know, like some of the, some of the most powerful stuff from like, hard knocks is like the, you know, the undrafted free agent guy that like makes the roster that nobody's expecting to or that almost makes the roster,

but just gets cut and he goes to practice squad or you know, Rex Ryan has to tell me doesn't have a job. Like it's, you know, that stuff is fascinating, right? But it's, you know, again, I think it's, your season two will definitely bring some more of that stuff to breathe in. I mean, for me, it's like Cam, like the fact that,

but if Cam didn't wanna, you know, participate, I get that. So John Rom, I think would be awesome in this, it's nice even in this. You know, the season barely even kind of touch on him, I think, which like I'm okay with, you know this season barely even kind of touch on him. I think, um, which like I'm okay with, you know, I think like kind of diving in super shallow on guys was not that additive, right? So if you're waiting to do one, I hope he's involved. Tom Kim,

I think will be awesome. Um, I, I don't know how well this one would rate, but I would love to learn like one or two things about Hadeckiatsu Yama. Like he is just around forever and is gonna be probably around for a long, long time and I would like to learn about what his life is like in Japan. And like, guessing like he wants, has no interest in doing this. It doesn't seem to really match his personality and he gets a ton of immediate attention as it is, but that one, that one stands out. I think you mentioned Hard Knocks TC. I look this up because I kind of wanted to start, I meant to say this in the beginning, but hard

knocks has been in our lives since 2001. So I kind of wanted to set the scene of like, if we are a little like critical on this, it's not necessarily aimed at Netflix as much it is like, do better golf. Like this should not have taken this long to come to fruition. And it, I flipped on NFL network the other night and they had a sounds of the game like an hour long. Something special. Yeah. The hour long thing of like just mic'd up players

and that's like what we've waited for forever to get a little bit. They already have a mic'd up for both conference championship games out. Yeah. And it's like, it's amazing. Like they're like talking about burrow, like like guys are like shit talking. It's incredible. And it's like, it's the NFL's YouTube page. It's like, that's not exactly like a. It's been the front flow ever. That's been around forever. And like, we've only been told

that this stuff is like not possible, right? So I think we just hold these people involved, including players involved. Like no one's like really offering this stuff up to the point of, just a higher standard of like, it dance for us, entertain us, like this is all possible, right? And the fact that it took this long, and it's not like, maybe that's why we're not as quick to celebrate that this is finally the first somewhat behind the scenes thing we've seen in golf, because we've just been told for so long

that it can't be done and it obviously can. Chris, one thing that I'd like to see more of is like show these guys at home practicing. Show me what their practice schedule looks like or like I know they did it a little bit with Joel with his personal trainer, but like show me more of like what goes into working hard. What does hard work look like in golf or I think another guy weirdly that I'd love to see some of I you know it's probably sailed with the live thing but Sergio I think Sergio would be weirdly fascinating. Yeah what Chris I know Netflix is like kind of famously doesn't

release numbers on anything but do you have any sense of just what kind of scope we're talking about here? Because I think that was, that's the other thing we kind of should have said at the beginning, probably, but I kind of called this like the golf moon shot for like, oh, no, what's the problem? Like, we don't have enough fans. Like, don't worry, this is going to fix it all. And like, do you have any sense of how many people watched this type of stuff? Is this? Not in like any kind of traditional, I mean, like, so all the streaming services, you know, have different metrics, like HBO Max, for instance, winds up accounting it in a more traditional, like,

this is how many people watch this show. So like, they'll be like, Hey, 28 million people watched a lot end of House of Dragon across terrestrial, three day terrestrial, this and like all that. Netflix is more about hours spent and starts, I guess. And they can goose those numbers in a variety

of different ways. There's some analytics that go into it. The big thing is like, is it gonna be in the top 10, which is essentially the thing that surprisingly, a lot of people actually go and they scroll down and they look and see what's trending on Netflix and they're like, I guess I give this a shot, see why everybody's watching it. And right now it's you, which is a show, like a drama. When we started this podcast, at least full swing was not in the top 10. I'm assuming it'll go in this weekend.

It's gotten so heavily advertised, but it'll be a real like litmus test of like what we've been saying, like what do people want out of golf media and do they want this kind of like, do they want this sort of recent history lessons about stuff that they kind of already knew about or do they want something that really like kind of changes the way that they felt about the characters and about the stories?

I also, a valid question is like, I think a lot of people are going to watch this. And I don't know if that's the measure of success for this show in terms of the golf landscape. I think for the, obviously, for the producers and the makers of this show, yes, it is. But again, what we talked about in the beginning, like just getting people somewhat in the boat is not the same as like making a new golf fan out of them and buying for me the one shirts like I have bought. So I think that's a different hill to climb that, you know, it's not I don't want this. I can foresee this as like, well, it's top 10 million tons of people watch you like you were wrong about this. And I was like, wow, that's kind of not the point of what we're probably trying to say over the course of three hours. I will say that you can tell.

You can tell when, like, so it's like so hard to figure out about it. No, but it's like you can tell when something jumps into the larger culture. Like you could tell when, like, for instance, like that show the bear, like just became a bigger deal than the other FX shows and people were saying, yes, the regular bear. But people were saying like,

yes, chef to each other. If all of a sudden people start making jokes about things in like you like calling each other boner or whatever, like Ben Dujol, Damon episode will have like kind of leapt into a wire consciousness. But isn't isn't like that's one of the things. Yeah, it's like there's nothing. What's that to me unexpected. There's no unexpected flourish that you're like, you know, like, fuck you feel like right. And very like playing on the thing like that just doesn't. And that's what I keep coming back to is just like, what's that one thing

that you're just like, you cannot miss this moment is just like, uh, I mean, it's the brook stuff, but I feel like the brook stuff is going to get right basically like clipped and it's just going to be like, this is, this is the brook thing you need to see is him saying this. Yeah. We'll see one other note I have from the last episode that was great. Um, he's always the first, uh, Rory going through his text messages in the locker room. Send the doctor was the first one to text him like that. Again, that's steer more and

more into the behind the scenes stuff like that. Good moment to have JT Hugg and Scotty and tell them why he's never won player in the world. I don't know if that was made for JT saw the cameras or not. As he goes to do it, but good, good moment amongst team, team USA teammates and kind of showing a little bit of the bond that they have. A few other things that my wife also called out, they didn't really explain why guys can play in majors, but they can't play on the PGA tour. I don't know if that was really fully visited.

They did not. Yeah, I did not feel that was visited on. Also, do we know why? No, I know. I don't know. Yeah, music at the end didn't really quite land it. my wife also said if I didn't know everything was going on I would have been very confused by everything that happened in that last episode So again, like just getting the outsiders perspective on that I thought was was interesting and little timeline on the year probably would have helped a lot of things but

Oh, no, I think that is pretty much it on on full swing I probably yeah, I don't think I'm to go for a third rewatch on this one. I think two is going to effectively, effectively do it. But Chris, this was awesome. Having you on, man. This was incredible. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me guys.

One of my favorite podcasts. Well, like, so it's just a real pleasure to be here. We'll have you on to talk about non golf TV related stuff into the future because this was, this was a blast. So thank you everyone for tuning in. Thank you TC. Thank you. Pie man for all the thoughts and efforts that went into this and only the other way we can end this is fuck you Phil. That also goes for our editor Phil who asked to now edit a three and a half hour podcast. I know is this what happens with Rogan?

This is it. Just man, man. You'll find out when they put you guys together to help your game. Thanks, everyone. Cheers. It's gonna be the right club. Be the right club today.

That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. you