No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 645: Smylie Kaufman

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

Smylie Kaufman returns to the pod to walk us through his transition into broadcasting, his take on the west coast swing and the upcoming run of major championships, the physical and mental struggles that derailed his playing career, some current hot topics in pro golf, and a ton more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sally here got a wonderful interview coming shortly with Smiley Kaufman. Smiley is now an NBC commentator. We talk about transitioning from professional golf into the commentary role.

And I think I think I could be wrong. Really for the first time in an audio format, he did a great interview with Brendan Quinn at the athletic last year. Kind of the first time he spoke about his ups and downs that he's had in professional golf. I think this is the first time he's spoken about it in detail like he does,

which you're going to hear shortly. I was kind of waiting for the end, but he kind of dove right into it. It was very open and honest about everything he went through and had a great time chatting with Smiley. I want to give a shout to today's sponsor that is rowback they are back for another year with no laying up I cannot say enough great things about rowback the fit the feel the quality it is fantastic I wear their gear everywhere and everywhere I go I see rowback I see it at golf courses. I see it at airports. I see it at restaurants the performance polos

They fit way better than your typical boxy polo the collar never never loses its shape. The four-way stretch material is soft and so comfortable. I basically live in these things. Second of all, the performance Q-Zips. I've got so many different versions of these now and they cannot send enough of them. They are versatile. They're not too hot, not too cold. They're great for a crisp morning on the golf course. I actually root for cool room mornings so I can put on a Q-Zip. In hoodies, I've just default to putting this on when I get out of the shower, when I wake up in the morning, when I get home from whatever I'm doing at night, I want to be wearing, I want to be lounging around in a rowback hoodie. I've got them in so many different colors. I got two of the same color, a lot of different blues as you might imagine, but I wear rowback hoodies every single week. And you can use code NLU at rowback.com for a generous 20% off your first order.

That's R-H-O-B-A-C-K dot com 20% off. Pull those Q-Zips hoodies and T's with code. And now you kick off 2023 right with rowback. Check them out at rowback.com. Here is Smiley Kaufman. All right, man. I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit with this, but I'm kind of like out of ways to describe what has happened with John

Rom over the last like several months and I don't know quarters half a year year During your time on the PGA tour. Did anyone have a stretch of golf that looked even remotely like what John Rom is doing right now? I don't think so. It's it's been incredible really just watching. It's like every other week It's like Rom one week, then it's worried, then it's Scotty. It's been incredible really, just watching, it's like every other week, it's like, ROM one week, then it's worried, then it's Scotty. It's like they just rotate, but getting to see them play in person and watching it live, it's like, ooh, man, people don't realize how good he is.

And what he's able to do off the tee with his length, he just, there's not a hole that he can't hit that cut on. what he's able to do off the tee with his length. He just, there's not a hole that he can't hit that cut on. He just seems to always find a way to make that cut work. And he doesn't get enough credit. He actually does turn the ball over from time to time with his irons. And I think I've been guilty of saying that it's a left flag and he can't get to it. Dude, he can get to every flag.

But he can cut it to left flags too. He's not afraid to do that. I remember Max mentioning that recently, talking about Kalimor Kawas' game, how he just notices that he, to left flags, he'll hit his little cut. And I think that takes a lot of growth and maturity to realize that you can just play your shot.

And that's good enough out there. And that's what Rom does. But DJ did forever. I mean, it's, it's been pretty impressive. And his hands around the greens are just as good. Well, that's what I didn't want to get too carried away. I mean, I know Scotty won four times in 56 days last year. Like that's pretty similar to this stretch, but you know, he wasn't, he wasn't

necessarily like top fiveing when he wasn't winning. And then DJ's had some incredible stretches over the last eight years. Jason Day had a five win and 13 start thing and we're just gonna ignore the tiger thing. But man, it just seems like this doesn't, when a heater like this happens, I'm the first one to say,

hey, it doesn't last forever, right? You're gonna cool off a little bit, it doesn't. But weirdly, this one feels way more sustainable, does it not? Okay, by all the sudden there, you're making a face. It does. I think it does. I think with John, everything I've seen with him,

it's all sustainable. Maybe his iron game at times can be a little off compared to the consistency of Justin Thomas, iron game, or like Rory's driver always being there. I would say that maybe his Iron Game from time to time gets a little like short right misses. I'll notice from time to time, but I remember last year like he had a,

he didn't put very well. Like I don't, and I think it was a reflection, maybe a bit of his Iron Game, not being quite as good, when as quiet as close to the whole, but yeah, he's so good. Well, it's like he didn't put like a way above average. It wasn't even poor last year, really.

It was just and it felt like from watching the bunch, it was like, I swear, I've said this, nobody hits more lips than he does. Like nobody hits like, like as many good puts that don't go in as Ram does. Not kind of just had the feeling of, you know, when you say that, it's like, well, it just a matter of time before he gets on some greens that really it starts looking big, you know, the whole starts looking big and then you go on a heater like this. But man, it's like, at this point, is it fair to say I got way too carried away? I kind of like teased like maybe he'll win the grand slam this year. What's this kind of a joke?

But kind of not like, it would be a disappointment for him to not win a major this year. Is that fair to say? And is one and a half she over under for him? And you'd have to play, you know, you'd have to get a plus number on the over on that. But like, that's not crazy to throw out, is it? I think the odds would be stacked against him. It's just so difficult to win major championships. And there's even if you play well,

like for instance, like Max last week, just those last nine holes, he just kind of lost a little bit of it off of the tee. But you have to be a little lucky to win major championships. And I think once you factor that in and take the 10 guys that are playing the best that week, it's just sometimes you just didn't go your way.

And we've seen that with four major champion chips every year. It's just such a small sample size on, you know, I know that's all sensible. Come on, let me get excited. I'm ready for, he's got to be looking at the calendar, be like, God, another more than a month before a major, like what are the chances of of this golf not coming, you know, during major championship season? But a Gus is gonna be fantastic. It's gonna be so good. I mean, not kind of ignoring the underlying, like, you know, reunion of all the live guys and all that stuff, but like, I'm also kind of,

I want to throw up, you know, just alerts in general over on Dustin Johnson for the Masters. I think it's gonna be pretty easy for people to ignore it. Or I just, I don't quite buy the narrative Of you know these guys aren't going to be sharp like their games aren't going to be tested Maybe I do for like some of the players, but Dustin doesn't seem to be one of the guys that I'm like Oh, no, no, he can't nurse. He needs the PGA tour to play himself into shape for major championships I don't really quite buy that

I'm so with you. I was thinking about that the other day. I'm thinking, he probably just going to forget that Dustin Johnson is a top five player in the world. And he's going to show up. And if he were to win, it would, it would just leave a kind of sour taste for most golf fans. And I think if any live player one, it would feel that way. But man, Dustin is, it wouldn't, I mean, would it shock you if he won? No, not at all. And I think it's, I mean, I know it was a soft and a weird master's the one that he won, but yeah, that one kind of is sticking out to me.

I'll be watching how he done. It's really hard to tell in these live events, you know, it's just a weird format, and it's a weird, everything's about it's weird. It's hard to be like, oh, he's really hot when he beat Chase Keppcare or whatever this week, but it, it's weird. It's hard to be like, oh, he's really hot when he beat Chase Capca or whatever this week. But it's, he's all, I hate it. I hate it.

He's become my punchy bag in that. But it's hard to figure it out. It really is. But on a similar note from Ram, like, could you have seen this leap coming from Max? I feel a little too close to the situation. He's one of my best friends that's out on tour and the guy I root for the most.

And I have admittedly undersold him because it's kind of like, it's Max. It's like your buddy that texts you after every round. Like there's no way he can be that good. But he has truly taken the leap. But could you have seen this coming? Okay. So my story with Max goes back to the sunny Hannah amateur and we were paired together. And that's, for me, the first Amateur event that was just a huge stage where so many future PJ tour players play that event. And Max was a guy I got paired with and at the time, he was a top five college player in the country. So I played with him and finished that round and said,

this guy's gonna be on tour. Like, that's my first taste of playing with a guy who will be on the PGA tour for a long time. And with Max's up and down on the Cornfairy PGA tour, that was obviously relatable to me. And it's easy for me to say, you know, it's hard to see that ascend at that time. But now I got to watch him play last year. I think this has been good for me to see is to see his growth from last year to this year. And the PGA tour events he won

last year, which would that have been Genesis? I thought he'd won Genesis last year, but it was the year prior. It was 2021, Genesis that he wants. He won Wells Fargo last year, then he won Fortnett in the fall, which is technically this season. Yeah, That's right. But he won Fortinet the year before as well, which was also last season. Yeah. Right. And I guess well to my point, I've just noticed he's got, he has the game to do it all. And that was what I noticed is that his game is to me at an elite level. But he has two things going for him that not a lot of guys do. And his composure's one. He's a very composed guy.

And he also has the drive like a tiger woods and a Justin Thomas and a Brooks Capka, where they can look at you with laser eyes and you just feel their presence. Like Max would be a guy you go to breakfast with that morning. And then you see him, like, I'll see him out on the golf course. And I'm like scared to talk to him because he's so in his, in his own world. I think that's his competitiveness that he has that takes to be a top player in the world.

I guess I don't really think I fully understood it until this past week with like again, you just lost by, I mean, it up being two shots to John Ram, the hottest player in the world. I guess I don't really think I fully understood it until this past week with, again, you just lost by, I mean, it up to two shots to John Rom, the hottest player in the world and the number one player in the world, do the winning everything. And you gave it, you had an incredible week. You won $2.2 million and he's up there like pretty exasperated and just bonded about what just happened

up there. And it's like, dude, it is a totally different, it's a different thing with some guys, right? I mean, I hate to like make the pair. I've been on very much on like team fee now for like a long time and I've written four million always, but like that's a different reaction than like he has after a close call. And like watching the Netflix thing was just like, yeah, some of these dudes like approach this stuff very differently. And there's probably a reason why Max is one six times. And this was his first runner up finish. Like he, there's probably a reason why Max is one six times. And this was his first runner-up finish. Like, I don't understand this. When I want to play my best golf, no matter what the situation,

golf gets way harder for me, right? And there's a certain guys that when it get, and they want to play their best, meaning their game is at their best and they're ready to elevate, they actually get better. And Max is absolutely one of those guys. And I just like, I't know like how you prepare like that how you prepare for that how you get in that moment and want to elevate and not get scared of the moment because I get terrified of the moment very easily. I can relate. I mean I had points in my

career where I felt like I was compete with anybody in the world but I've also had points in my career where if you and I went out and played I'd be scared to death of hitting the golf ball. So there's, I've seen the ups and downs of what this game can mentally do to you. So it's Max. It's crazy. It's always Max. Yeah. And so it's Max, which is why I have so much respect for him is I think he did a couple interviews with you guys that I tune into every single time, I'll hack out a list and tune twice. Because for me, it's so relatable. When I was going through my slump, it was easy for me to relate to everything he said.

I'm like, and I think it was one of the things he talked about was just hitting that rock every single day. And if it's not going to be today, it's going to be tomorrow. And that attitude is the attitude you have to have to get out of a hole, get out of a swamp and Hulk red it to, I'm so proud of him because it's not easy to do. That little like six minute, whatever speech

he gave on the pod of just like, every time I found rock bottom, I'd grab a shovel and dig six feet deeper and I'd, but I just never quit. And like I'm so relatable. So relate. I understood it. I was just like sitting there like tears in my eyes. I'm like, this deeper, but I just navigate quit. And like I'm so relatable. I understood it. I was just like sitting there like tears in my eyes.

I'm like, this, this is me. I understand this. Well, it's gotta be, yeah, like I said, you can kind of color in the between the lines here too, of once you have achieved it at an extremely high level, it's gotta be insanely hard to grasp the idea that you can't do it. That's almost like a thought that can't enter your mind. I've done this before.

I don't have to prove to myself that I can win a PGA Tour event. I've done it, right? So, like that, but I feel like at times I can also work against you, right? And that you've kind of gotten a taste of what that is like. And now, when you start regressing, I don't know, it can go both ways I could see it.

Well, expectations is what everybody always refers to. It's like when you had success early, people start referring to, oh, you're just your expectations are too high. And I never really looked at it that way. I just always wanted to be the best at whatever I did. And I think the competitiveness in me and that, and just the fire and how hard I would work

I didn't need like any expectations. I just knew that I wanted to be the best and and if I wasn't performing like I would just work harder and I think that I don't know if that really answers that question but that's the way I kind of looked at expectations and how hard this game can be. And sometimes you take two steps backwards before you take one step forward. And I think I kept doing that for years. It was, except I never took the step forward. I just kept taking another one back. Well, but it's not, it's not a number of hours put in or a level of hard work that that can you know Get there's no guarantee to get out of it, right? I mean, there's no there is not a it's not a it's not all about hard work

Hard work can get you there But that's what's so frustrating about like if you wanted to become a better free-throw shooter I have a feeling that if you put in thousands of hours in the gym shooting free-throws You would improve and you can put in thousand hours of 1000 hours on the range and golf and get worse. And it's golf is so messed up that way. It is, man. And I think with relating it kind of back to me, just a little bit with golf, I don't feel like anybody worked harder for me over a three year period of time, meaning hitting more golf.

I don't think anybody in the world had more golf balls than I hit in three years. And I don't think I didn't get any better over three years because I had so many swing thoughts in my head trying to work through because I'm going from swing coaches, swing coaches, trying to get the right ingredients and matchups that I would just get on the golf course and it would be like an algebra problem once I stood over the ball.

Like what's our thought? You know, like it used to be, I used to be the guy that didn't have to, I would go work and practice, I would play golf, and I would be able to get away from the game. And not have to think about if I took two weeks off when I still have it when I came back. And I think that's the difference between when guys are playing well

and not well, is that they can get away from the game. And it's because once you start thinking about your golf swing, it's really hard, or you're putting, you're chipping, and it's all you're thinking about. It's hard to separate playing golf creatively and just getting the ball in the hole. And I think that's what I struggle with with years for a lot of time.

I've always, I joke about this sometimes I've gotten, I get to do like one-one millionth of the scale of what you guys go through, but like I've gotten like a little simulation of a lot of things that have to do, like I've gone through in a period of like when you're really struggling with golf and you like have t times coming up and you're going to sign a scorecard. And when you drive to the course every day and you know it's a problem, that day you're trying to get out of the problem instead of going out and competing or going out and be who you are.

And you can't go to, even if it's one little part of your game, if putting is a problem and your attitude when you show up is like, okay, I gotta figure out the problem, how different that is from actually playing the game is it's staggering. Oh yeah, and I'll tell you this, so for about a problem, how different that is from actually playing the game is it's staggering. Oh, yeah.

And I'll tell you this. So for about a year, maybe a year and a half, I wouldn't even keep score when I went and played like at home. I just wouldn't even keep score because I just didn't want to have a result attached to go off. I just wanted golf to be fun again. And I think once I realized like, oh, goodness, I finally stepped away from the game for a bit. I'm like, it's a crazy how quickly I started enjoying golf again.

And just not, I just wouldn't think about anything over the ball. I knew what I was working on and I didn't ever worry about it. It's like I just didn't attach an emotion to a bad shot. And I was doing that for so long that, and most listeners probably are like, good nodding their head like, guy, yeah, that's me. But yeah, that's, it happens to everybody.

And not just amateurs, it happens to pros. And it can be a very fleeting game. And we've seen it time and time again. Did you ever, by any chance, this came to mind. Have any, did you ever read about or learn about or ever talk to Ian Baker Finch at all about how some of his struggles or his reaction to kind of going down about where it's bad spiral?

You know, I didn't. I wasn't very open when I was during, when I wasn't playing well. I was hardly open enough. Like I would barely open up to my wife about just what I was going through. You know, I always probably, I just felt like a shell of myself, and my personality's very outgoing extrovert,

and I felt so introverted, and I felt so like monkey on my back when I went to the golf course, just like this anxiety that I've never had in my entire life, and it bled into performance anxiety. And I think I just didn't know even know what to, if I was gonna call you in Baker Finch, I wouldn't even know what to say at that time.

It's like, because all you're looking for is a band-aid to make you feel better, but as soon as that gun goes off and you gotta get to the first C, it doesn't matter what Ian Baker Finch has been through, you're gonna still have to get that ball in the fairway. And that was the way I looked at it. Could I have gotten maybe a little bit of ice from guys?

Yes, but at the time, it just didn't seem like the right thing to do. So if you're calling it performance anxiety, I know you've taken steps, almost all professional golfers work with psychologists and some kind. What was that process like? Was it like swing coaches where you're trying new people and new thoughts every time,

or what did you learn to take away from that? No, no. No, no. It's funny, like I think sports psychologists are always the first to go on guys teams. Like if you're talking about firing people first, this sports side is the first guy to always go. And that's nothing against the sports side guys. It's just the easiest one to cut. If you're trying to cut down on costs. And for me, it was always that way.

But I would say that it was just the best advice I got was from Brett McCabe. And he's here in Birmingham. It was basically a ladder that I had to get to for it had to start at home. I had to go play golf at home and then go play competitive golf at home. And it was just this building steps and steps and steps you just couldn't go from for me at that time that was trying to groove something at home and they'd go take it to a golf tournament. It just didn't work. I had there was just steps of trust and confidence that you had to build along the way to remind yourself of this is the work that you've put in and you've kind of checked these boxes off.

And eventually, over time, when you start playing more and more, it was like, it felt like the best example I got was like, you were in a car accident and you have this scar tissue. And every time, it's like that first time you get back in the car after a car wreck, you just feel that like, that anxiety of like, oh my gosh, this is so similar. And I think that feeling of, I'm a visual guy. So I remember every single bad shot I've ever hit. And when I was playing good,

I remember every good shot I was ever hit. And I used that fuel to take me to heights I never imagined. But when I was playing bad and had that scar tissue, I would get over the ball and it would be really difficult for me not to visualize and think about the bad shot. And for me, that was what I constantly was battling and regardless of the work I put in, it was too much and stepping away from it

was turned out to be the best thing for me. Well, we can get into that, but I also want to, I kind of was planning to start with here in terms of almost always for golf fans. I challenge people on this to say like, when you see a downturn in someone's game, whether it's public or not, it almost always, I would say 95% of the time can be tied back to injury in some way, right? It, it, it, like, it can sound like an excuse, I guess, a little bit

in terms of it, but you had to change things because of things that happened to your body. And now when you're talking about trying to find the feel that made you successful, but that feel contributed to you being injured in some way, how do you, you're relearning the same swing, like you're relearning a totally different swing. So take us to what the injury part of this was like in the equation.

So I had never had wrist injuries. And on Sunday of Augusta, the year I was in the final group, the only year I played, that Sunday was a first time I got on the range and hit a couple of wet shots. And I had severe discomfort in my right wrist and Colby Tully, my trainer, who's now seems to be the trainer for pretty much every K-Way Finn as he'll follow my man on Twitter, Instagram.

He's the man, but I was like, yo, what's going on here? And he kind of gave this little razzle dazzle, like pulling my hand, he's like, aren't you good? So I have some dirt on it. Get out there. Yeah, yeah, go out there and it didn't really bother me that day, but I, I didn't notice

it. And as I think it was Wells Fargo, which would have been a couple weeks after Augusta that year, I got to Charlotte and got on the range that Monday afternoon and hit 10 balls and was like, I can't hit because of my wrist. And then my next goal was to play in the players. And I showed up to the players and tried taking like a painkiller and pretty much off of every T box. I was sticking my hand in the ice

core to try to numb it. And I was leading after that way. Well, I don't know. After eight holes, I was leading the golf tournament. And then I got to never, we start on the back and I got to 18 and made triple. And then at that point, what's the adrenaline we're off of like leading the players my first time there? It didn't quite go as well the rest of the way. And I had risk taped up the rest of the year and I could play through it. But it was really that next year where I tried to make some changes to I wanted to be able to hit a hold fade into a right to left wing,

because I saw Justin Thomas soon, I thought that was a cool shot ever. And I also wanted to hit it a little higher at times and add a little bit of speed. And the combination of those things along with my wrist got me in some bad motor patterns with what I knew to be my golf swing at the time, to where when I got in situations

in the past that used to be my go-to shots or my go-to feels no longer produced the golf shot that I originally saw over the three years prior. And as we tried to fix it, the risk wasn't issue, but it kind of led me down past that I never had. You know, I just, I would go to the golf course, hit a couple balls. I laughed at the people that were there on Wednesday afternoon. And it's so funny. I'll fast that turn.

Well, and if you, if you're listening to this and have never tried to play golf with wrist injury, you talk about how it is hard to control the face of a golf club. If either I have less left wrist stuff and you I just it add so much right hand into it and I would shut the club face down so quickly and had pull hooks that still are kind of, you know, haunting in that way. You can't control. You know, it's funny. I was talking with with Jordan about him kind of going through swing changes over

the course and he just described it in terms of like, my body is not the same as it was when I was 21 and it never will be the same. So like my swing will never be my 21 year old swing that I won two majors with. Like, you, you, it just will never physically be that right when I used to turn and I wasn't as flexible. I could hit my stop point and that was that, that slot. But now when I turn, I turn more and so that that stop point is not the same. And it just, that's what I like, as time goes on, the Matt Cooters of the world that have been on tour every single year and like never lose it,

just below my freaking mind. Like you don't have one year where it just kind of starts going wrong and you do it for 20 years, it's just, it's absolutely remarkable. Those are the most impressive guys, man, the Charlie Hosmans, the Matt Cooters, the, the Charles Howell III before he made his jump. I mean, I think it's always a good conversation to ask, would you rather have a 25-year career on the PGA tour or a five-year PGA tour career, where you win five times as a, in those five years or you win one time in those 30, 25 years.

And it's, I don't know. I both work, both probably about the same money, but what you want, I don't know. A lot less hotel rooms in the five year career I have a feeling, but then it's like you're left chasing this feeling of like, I had that, you know, it's a, it's a credible balance, but I'll just say people don't,

I don't know if people know the full story of this and it kind of took some, it's a credible balance. But I'll just say people don't, uh, I don't know if people know the full story of this and it kind of took some reading to get to this win. You know, you know, you're playing with Jordan that day in 2016 where, you know, you had your rough day, which started great, by the way, people don't really remember that part of it either. But I hit some good shots. They really were like, like, a, like a foot away from being like funnel pins, like that they have on Sunday at Augusta. But anyways, you guys finished the 12th hole, fresh off Jordan's absolute freaking disaster. What happens on 13T as you guys make it to that T?

Well, people don't realize this, so we got to our point, we're point 12. And you know, what happens happens? People don't realize I hit a nice high cut nine iron in there at about 15 feet and I made a to and I made the pot and gave it a little I kind of gave it a little fist pump because I'm like I'm back in this thing I'm back and I honestly didn't even know how many over par was at that point because I made the pot I just felt the momentum switch and obviously it did because he didn't have a great hole, but we got to 13 T and

because he didn't have a great hole, but we got to 13T. And he asked me when I get to the T-box, is it me or you? And in that moment, I've never known, it'd been in a situation and not know what to say. And I just laughed. I'm like, I feel bad laughing, but yeah, just to like kind of laugh off that moment. And even funny right after that. I'm about to tee off on 13 and behind us at Augusta Country Club. I hear like this group that's in the woods that's playing like whatever holes right there adjacent. And they're looking for this golf ball. And they're like yelling back and forth of each other about like, I found a title is two over here, a top flight, whatever it is. And I'm just thinking of my head like one of the

biggest, are most probably memorable moments of a gust and national masters just happened. Would we right there and you're over here playing golf and and yelling like when we're still in the T box, it was just, it was wild. That's the, I love that story. That's incredible. Just the people don't realize how close that hole, now I guess they rerouted that night pole, I think whatever it was,

but I've never, I don't think I've heard that until the research of this, because you happened back there for Jordan, just made seven. Is he happened away, man, just the athlete? Yeah, you, you were within four shots at that point. You got back to plus two. I guess Danny was, I'm, you were within four shots at that point. You got back to plus two. I guess Danny was probably birding 13 or 14 at that point. So maybe you were five or six back,

but you're only three back of Jordan after you made up five shots on one roll. I had some good shots that day. I was ironing. It's so well. It's so funny. I look back and I realized I shot 81. And it's like, I think I had four, three, maybe five,

three puts. And I'm not a three putter. Like I had a streak on tour of my rookie year of one of the longest non-three-pot streak. That was a strength of mine, was not three-pudding, and I showed up that day, and the greens just changed colors overnight. I was, for whatever reason,

putting downhill pots the whole day, and just never got comfortable with the speed. I sounded like Tiger Woods. It seems like he says every, every match, I just couldn't get the speed right. But that was me and I kept missing everything. It was terrible. I asked you this when you came up the pod like in 2016 after the Masters, I think, but Nance was going pretty hard there on you on Saturday night trying to get you to try to

get some emotion out of you, try to add some nerves to the situation, roasting you for you living with your parents What do you remember about that story line? I tell you what I was looking for a house pretty soon after that I was like I can't I can't have nance just just roasting me like that I got a new car out of that though because he asked what kind of car I drove and I was driving a Nissan Marano and Nissan like tweeted at me that night It's like hey, we're gonna send you a new Nissan Marano. and Nissan tweeted at me that night. It's like, hey, we're gonna send you a new Nissan Marano.

Thanks for the support. And it's funny a year later, I was at a wedding in Augusta. And I went to, I drove my Nissan over there that same car they gave me, and I took a flight up to Brad Faxon's event and whatever that event's the CVS tournament. And I had a friend drive back that Nissan back to Birmingham and wrecked it. So I've left a gust of twice with feeling like I've wrecked my,

wrecked myself and then I wrecked that Nissan. So it's something about driving back from my gust has been over for two. What was that? What was that Sunday like after, you know, playing the final group of the masters and having the day you had? Was it easy to come to terms with? Was it over quickly or what? What was that Sunday like after you know playing the final group of the Masters and having having the day you had was it easy to come to terms with was it over quickly or what was that night like it was over quickly. I got over pretty fast because I feel like I played well. I just put it so poorly and just just was just frustrated that I you know didn't rise up to the moment with the potter because when I look back. the moment with the potter because when I look back, it would have been very easy for me to finish top 12 and play another master's the year after. I think all I need was a 76,

I'm sure 81. So I think that that not finishing strong was frustrating, but it didn't take too long to go to the after party. I was, we had a good time that night, just put it that way. I've heard you say, you never referred to what they again in this stretch of golf that you had where you were, you know, you didn't even want to talk to your wife about it. What was her support like? Because it seems like that had quite an effect on you.

Oh, yeah, I would say that beginning of last year was when I, the first time, because I think as professional golfers, we train ourselves to be invincible and that no negative talk is allowed, or just any type of negativity that we're going to put in the air that, like, hey, maybe professional golf is not for me anymore. And I think when I talked to her the beginning of last year, just talking about, because life on the road

was really tough going to many tours and Monday qualifiers, I just wasn't doing well with it and I was going through a swing change that I was seeing. I really liked the way I was heading, but I knew it was gonna take a long time. And talking to her, I was the first time I felt like I was opening up and for me,

it just kind of lifted up that monkey off my back that I kind of mentioned earlier. I just finally just started to feel like myself and was able to talk about my feelings and where, what the future looked like, because it wasn't going to be what it was, you know, what my career trajectory was my first couple of years on tour.

It just, it was gonna take a long road to get back to that and just being open with her, she was, you know, very supportive in everything and then I can't imagine what was to happen after that, but it's been fun. Well, it's gonna say, even when it seems to me again, have not walked in these shoes, but it's even when it seems to me again, have not walked in these shoes, but it's even it seems to me, it went in professional golf when it's going well,

even when it's going fine, it is stressful. Like it is just, it's a lot. It is a lot of people, it is a lot of requests, it's a lot of handshakes, it's a pro-am walking score, this person, so and so agent, this deal blah, blah, blah, figure out your putting, get to the range on time, hit your balls, get your food in, get your, you know, got to eat right, you got to, you know, whatever, you got to get. Where is it?

Yeah, it's just, it's a lot. And that's when it's going fine, right? And I just been talking to Colt last week, or two weeks ago in the pod, it's just like going around tour life without having the stress of, you know, your mood being decided by, you know, your golf score that day seems like a better way to go about it. And it seems like you found joy in that already in this early phase in your career. You only started doing this in May, I think, right? Yes, it was in May. And I would say that that Francine, I went to Augusta National for the Masters of last year and we went to go watch Jordan and Justin play and

for me, I just wanted to go support the guys, but when I was out there, it was at that time I just did the deal to go to the PGA Championship to work for ESPN and future groups, showed it to Augusta and I was blown away that Friday. How many people just came up and said hello and just recognized me and just wanted to talk. And I think, like, Fancy was just blown away too. She just couldn't believe that many people still like, felt like they recognized me and felt like I was still relevant to the game.

And at that moment, I think we knew that if this media stuff still went well, like the PGA, which first off was daunting, like showing up to the PGA, Chafee Chip, the first time holding a microphone was wild. And the story of how it even happened was getting that job was even crazier. But yeah, it's, that Augusta National Trip definitely kind of changed my perspective of maybe staying in the golf space is something that I could be able to potentially do. And that's what I've tried to,

after Joel's Netflix episode, it was having some conversation with some people about how Joel goes about his way and he's very open about like, yeah, I could be better if I worked a little harder, but like, I just, I'm not going to do that. It goes to, it speaks to making golf, you know, your profession a part of a life that makes you happy, right?

Like for him, having balance and enjoying these years of his prime are, you know, better than stressing more about his golf game, right? So even, you know, through all the ups and downs that you went through, like, is it providing you any joy? Like, are you getting any joy? It's even if you get back to like average, will they be providing you joy versus now, like, I don't know you that well, but every time I've seen you sense it, it's like, you're going to smile on your face again, man.

Like, it seems to have, you know, reinvigorated. I love for, like, what's your relationship with the game of golf like as we sit here today? Oh, it's, it's fantastic. Besides this dad back, I got, I had a, wow, I had a kid five, five weeks ago. And it's, this dad back is no joke. So when you have, when you have yours, just know there's a chance you might be out for a bit because dad backs an epidemic going on. We're going to, we need to have like a fun run to raise awareness because I tell you what, it's,

it's like different. You're just not used to holding something that long and bouncing like my back and then they then the couch at the hospital is not going to be to your liking as well. It's kind of it's a little stiff on the back. So yeah, uh know, but the game of golf, though, for me, it's been so fun to just have, first off, I'm playing a lot better. I still go out and have control of the golf ball now and can shoot some other scores at home, which for me, if I have control of the ball and I'm having fun, it's just been playing with friends and just enjoying the game. And that's just taking all the stress out of it. It's been great. What's used to the story of you getting the job at the PGA was crazy to tell us that story.

Well, so my agent, I was talking to him about my feature and this is back in probably March of last year. And he said that ESPN was kind of looking for some talent for the PGA championship. And I was like, well, yeah, we'll pitch my name and to see how it goes. And they're like, well, they're not quite all in yet. Let me keep working. And I was like, hey, I think I did a massage envy.

This is when I was a sponsor with them. I had like a smiley set that they did for like a short stint at like the PGA Earth, the players championship one year. And like Tony Fienau, Justin Thomas and Brandt Seneca, all these guys like came on my set and I interviewed him. And we sent them those clips and they were like, okay, this is this will be good enough. We'll give them a shot. And so once I got the news that I was in, I was like, wait, so they want me to,

I didn't know as a PGA championship, they want me to work. I thought we're gonna start at like, Craig Ranch, whatever. So they're throwing me in the deep and at a major championship. I was like, well, the advice I got from the people that were there is like, it was a cult said this to me as well. It's either it's sink or swim, you get no training,

you can either do it or you can't. So in my mind, I was like, well, which is see how it goes. And that first day was very interesting. How do you, what do you say your kind of philosophy is on how you do on course commentary? I mean, I think it,

it's no secret. I'm a huge fan of like what you and Colt bring to the table in terms of relationships with players, right? How do you, how do you marry up your relationship with players versus, you know, having a critique of them at times or decision making and things like that? And how has that gone for you? I'll say my own course, the way I typically have gone about it is approach strategy first. And I try to take myself into the golf shot and not only how I would play it, but I try to see that first and then I try to see how they would play it.

And since I've seen all these guys play, I know that a left pin for Rory is a great pin and a right pin for ROM or more a cow is a good pin. So I would use strategy first as my guide and that's what kind of got me going because I understood strategy fairly well. And as I kind of have grown in this, there's a lot of growth that takes to be decent at this stuff. But the progression that I had going from feature groups, which you get to talk a ton. And there's no commercials. And it sounds like a lot like live, but it's, there's no commercials. And we, you get to just kind of talk all you want.

And then when I got to my first TV gigs with commercials and like tape shots, that's when I realized, wow, this TV stuff is actually a little tougher. You have to be a lot more concise. And being concise and not over talking because are on course guys, when we don't get the ball that much to talk, it's like it's kind of our nature to want to talk too much. And guys like Roger Malti, they just don't say a lot. They just would, he was a master at saying less and it coming out just perfect. And I've tried to try not to over talk quite as much. It's sometimes easier said than done,

but there's just a lot of different parts of this whole on-course reporting that is a bit of an art. And I've watched more golf over the last year than I've watched my entire life. And it's just literally watching, Doddy Pepper or Colt Knose, all these guys and see how they work and just listening to their cadences

and not trying to make them my own, but just try to see how other people do it. Yeah, I think something I probably didn't fully understand maybe five, six years ago, it's just how much is going on in your ear piece. You know, it's not just like, the what? How does that work? How does this shot get sent down to you? And what kind of time frame do you have to kind of get something out? Well, you have to understand you got to learn the traffic and the traffic typically goes most of the time, the host. So for instance, like NBC would

be Dan Hicks and they'll throw it down to, he'll either throw it down to me. He'll say my name and I'll, so what do you see? But other times when we're going from whole to whole, so for instance, if Brad Faxon has the 16th hole and he's throwing it to the 17th hole, which would be, what's they, Kurt Byrne's hole, he'll say, Kurt over to you and so Kurt knows

he's got to send it down to me. Or if there's not enough time that he'll just call the shot, because at NBC, everything we do is is live shots for the on-course guys, which I love. And it makes me the adrenaline. It's, Capulue was great, because I got lucky. I got John Rombs group, and he came back.

And I was like, NBC first week, and thrown right on the guy ends up winning. It was it was fun, but the traffic takes a while and and sometimes we screwed up, but a lot of times it keeps people from talking over each other. On the PGA Tour front, live golf, professional golf, whatever you want to call it, a lot of changes have been made with PGA Tour. We've seen them kind of play out over the last couple of months. If you were, say, the hundredth player on the PGA tour currently out there right now, what would you think of the changes that have been made?

Amazing. It's, if you're, if you're in a category that you've won a golf tournament and you have a two or three year exemption, whatever it is, you have hit the goal. You've hit the jackpot because I wish my run in 2016 was during this run and how much more money I would have made. For instance, I don't know what the players' championships purse is going to be. Let's say it's 20 million years here. It went or if it's 25. I mean, I see that getting closer to 40, 50 in the next couple of years, it will not shock me because that they always want that to be

the biggest purse. And I think when I finished like somewhere around 10th place at the players championship, it was like 210,000. That's going to be a 10th place that the players championship this year is going to be how much? It's going to probably be close to $550. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, sorry. Yeah, it'll be way above $500. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, you've hit the jackpot. If you can stay on tour, I will say the way it's going to be now, it's going to be so difficult for the cornferry guys to get to keep their card in the top 70.

It's already hard enough to do it to keep your card for the top 125 coming off the Corn Ferry. That's what I'm gonna be looking out for this coming year is how much reshuffling there is, or if it's just kind of the top guys are able to have that advantage of elevated FedEx Cup points, and which I think is, it's only so slight, but I feel like it makes a difference, right?

Yeah, I think it, at least I'm hoping that the people in the PJ tour headquarters are running like every possible model to like understand the scenario and how it could all play out in terms of FedEx Cup points and all that, and you can't have a closed off system that's kind of only self-fulfilling. And the way the OWGR is going to go, it's not going to overly, you know, it's not going to give big time OWGR points to the small limited field events.

I think we're, you know, I guess, I spent the week out at AT&T at Pebble, and I guess with the field that that event had, there were a little bit maybe a little more rumblings about everything that was going on than it was like a true celebration of things. And I think from where I'm standing, like you're talking about corn fairy guys, you know, maybe retaining their cards, right, which listen, you are professional golfer. We both follow professional golf greatly. Like we're kind of involved in that part. But man, some stuff is going to fall by the wayside.

And if the priority is, or if like the first line of thinking is how do the corn fairy guys keep their cards, or how does the Honda classic, you know, exist in this ecosystem, that is really, really far from, in my opinion, from like everything that's going on in golf and like what needs to change in far as prioritization and everything. So you're not wrong, but it's going to be a big topic in conversation for sure. And it will. And that's kind of how the tour has worked for a long time. And I bring this up to say,

you know, it kind of seems like it's not gonna be the easiest change of pace. For one, for a lot of guys and two, just bureaucracy within the tour and how it works and how evenly spread out the power is to say, I don't think the message has been well received completely or fully gotten through to the rest of the tour. I'm using quotes with that of like, no, no, the top guys are basically saying, here's how

it's going to be or else we're going to go play somewhere else. I'm really paraphrasing and exaggerating that. But that's kind of a way of saying status quotes out the window. How do we figure the rest of this out? And I feel like the solution they've come up with is pretty darn good for that, 100th guys, kind of what I'm getting at in this rant. I think so too. And I would say that one of the biggest issues, or maybe not issues or concerns, is I don't really necessarily understand the PIP and or the PIP.

I would say if that money was put into the purses, that if the guys are already going to win this much money, which is make them go earn it. And I say that because I'm sure the guys in the top 20 of the PIP are laughing at me like, well, sorry, like play better. I mean, it's always played better in this sport, but I could see why maybe the corn fairy guys would see like, wow, can you imagine if they just put half of that or just a 10% of that pip into our purse. Like, so I could see the angle from that, but the way the system set up for TV and longevity of the golf product being the best it can possibly be, they did the right thing.

Right. I'm going to say if I challenge you on the on the pit part, I would say putting more money in the purses does not address the problem here, which is, you know, if Rory McElroy and, you know, I always insert, I insert, you know, who can I insert here? I'm always insulting somebody when I do. Rory McElroy and player X finished 10th in the same term. They both walk away with the same paycheck, despite putting different amount of butts in the seats, right?

So how do you, the pit being a, you know, whatever 15, 20% of total compensation that comes out of the purses and that goes on to the top guys? That makes sense to me to retain talent, which is like an existential thing that needs to happen in golf right now for the PGA tour. Hey, I guess if you look at it this way, that it's a, if you equate it to a golf salary, if that's how it works, like a contract

for the being on the PGA tour, then if I look at it from that angle, it makes more sense. But I think it just doesn't, what doesn't make sense is that it just comes out at the end of the year. There's no rolling leaderboard. It's just, we pick who we to pick for the rankings and I mean Some of these guys are my friends that are making so much money But I just would like to know the process of how it happens and I know there's all the stats and how are the different metrics

That you look at but I I don't really I don't know it's imperfect and it's it's it's kind of hilarious It's funny to track and everything. But it's yeah, it's kind of like a guaranteed contract, right? It's essentially, and I think the way they've done it though with if you want your pit money, you got to go play all these events the next year is like a good thing for returning sponsors

and things like that. So I like getting all different perspectives on it, right? But I think it to, in my humble opinion, the hundredth ranked guy has tends to have a outsized opinion on their value that they provide to the professional golf world. That's my take on it, you know? And-

Well, that hundredth guy can easily get to top 50. He can. They can reap all the benefits they want, you know? They can, they get to take advantage of this ecosystem which has changed dramatically. I don't think if live comes around, you can't say if lived and come around, we wouldn't be playing for what we're playing for. That's just, I just have a hard time believing that that was the way the PGA tour was progressing as far as the purses were going and the P pip and all that. It may have happened, I think they've said that, but I would just not to the extreme

to the strange. It accelerated a lot. Yeah, it big time accelerated. It seems, it's not that the hundredth-ranked guy is not so wildly talented that it's really hard to describe. We could spend an hour of this podcast describing how freaking good, that's not my point. It's just like when it comes to value providing and how hard it is to like, if you're, you know, the hundredth ranked guy, 101 is right there ready to take your spot.

You know, we've seen that with a lot of the, you know, middleing guys that have left for live of like, yeah, like just example, Brennan Steel is so unbelievably good at golf. And it's next man up kind of mentality in that because it's can be, guys can be just kind of interchangeable. But I get it. It's their careers, right?

I mean, it's just kind of my job to impot a pine on that and guys are fighting for their careers and whatnot, but it's complicated. I mean, I'll add this to it and I'm curious what your opinion is. So let's say the designated events next year are no cut events, which to me means that field of 132 or so is probably would be cut down to probably similar to what we've seen in the past of like the C.J. Cups, which would be closer to 70 guys. Now that 100th guy in the world that we've been talking about, is he getting into that field?

And I would assume the 100th guy would, but maybe not 125, 126, or where's the cutoff? That's where this argument, or talking about the top, that 100th point in the world, now the no-cut designated events that might happen, now we have a different conversation. And everything I've heard, going all the way back to August,

was a way of addressing that and saying, there is multiple ways to qualify for a designated event. And I'm just gonna make up like ideas I've heard, because I have no idea what's gonna happen. But it might be, let's say Honda is this week and then Bay Hill is next week, right? It might be top eight finishers at Honda, get into Bay Hill next week and that they hold eight spots for that. And this, this many on the DP World Tour get in and it might be, you know, it might be top

50 on the blah, blah, blah, are the automatic qualifiers or whatever it is. All your PIP guys are going to get in there regardless. And then it's, you know, if you are this ranked on the FedEx Cup, you get a spot. And kind of filling out the field that way more than it is, basically giving like an incentive to like, you play better, play better still needs to be rewarded. It has to be, right? That's important to that. Like there's gotta be some churn.

Like I'm, I'm kind of, I've ridden for the top players a lot because I think it's really important to keep them happy at this point because I still think the golf world's a bit fragile in that regard. I guess for the PIP stuff, I'm way on board with that, but when it comes to guaranteed starts and playing in them, like you better play, like you got to play well. I'd say what you just what you just described is a very competitive environment. That is a high stakes competitive environment. And I think it will make, like for instance, the Honda Classic finishing top eight, no one you're going to play in Bay Hill, it brings so much more meaning and value to those weeks.

And if that's what we're gonna be referring to those weeks as, well, I mean, that's just where we're at right now. No, I think it, again, I've said this many weeks, maybe to the point where people have adjusted their expectations, but like, say, be prepared for things to be wildly different next year. Like, I've heard 2020 word, 2023 is just to get us to 2024. And that's all I've heard. Like some stuff that wildly reimagined that, you know,

has blown my mind. Again, I don't know if it's actually gonna come to fruition, but some of the ideas and things like that are just like, whoa, I did not see that coming. It's for what you all are doing over there and knowing up and then and me being involved in just the TV business. It's been like just so cool just to see the way it's being reshaped.

Because every time I turn on the television now, it just seems like there's something like the product's really good, the way it's being covered now and how many different golf personalities, opinions, or whatever it is. It just seems like we're moving forward the correct way. Netflix is brought a new buzz to it too. It's been very well received, I think, from a lot of people I've talked to and I don't know exactly the correct way. Netflix is going to, is brought a new buzz to it too. It's been very well received, I think, from a lot of people I've talked to and I don't

know exactly how much that's going to translate immediately to viewership, but it's more people interested in and drive to survive, took a couple of years, a couple of seasons, I think, before it really, really took off and all that stuff. I just hope that the next time they do the PGA tour Netflix that they don't have to describe how to make a cut on the PGA tour and what it is. Because I feel like every episode three times, it was like, if you're going to make the cut, you have to finish top whatever. And I was like, okay, we know what the cut is. We got it. It's so hard because I was watching it. I was rewatching it up so last night with

with a friend of mine who is a big golfer and his wife who is not a big golfer and like, you see it through their lens as well. And you get you realize it's a show on Netflix. Yeah, it's it's it's it's almost like we need teared full swing PJ two. It's like we need the the guys who were on Twitter or like watching golf every single day. We need a different we need a different Netflix for that. And we need the basic one down here just for the, ooh, like who is Tony Fee now? He seems like he's a really emotional, fun, great guy, family guy. Like that, that's, I mean, it would be cool if we got a little bit more access. But overall, I think it's going to be a great growth for the game as we move on to this major season, which is going to be so sick.

I'll go I'll do it right now. I'll put the call out to Netflix people box to box. I hope you listen. Get smiley on the narrate stuff. Let's let's do it. I think you'd be. Oh, God, I don't know. I'm a commentary there. Oh, man. I don't know. I mean, it's it was fun to watch, but who knows? We'll see what you also broadcasted at the match this year. What was that like? I mean, obviously you got the great relationship with Jordan and JT as we know we made it 55 minutes So far into this and I haven't even asked about Baker's Bay yet, which I'm sure you can't go ahead I'm dating without hearing about it. What was it like cover that of it? It was it was fun. You know, I had the opportunity to work for Bleacher Report and TNT that week,

doing the press conference for right before they went and hit golf balls. It was like 30 minutes and there was a huge crowd, great set and all four of the guys were worried, Tiger, Justin and Jordan were there. And it was my first time really to interview. I'm used to the one answering the question. So it was a little nerve-racking not having that experience, but it was fine once we got going, but I will say, so I know Tiger just a little bit because we kind of missed each other when he had his spinal fusion.

So when I was playing well, he was out. So I didn't really get to form a great relationship with him, except I had a couple of breakfasts with him on tour, but not into well enough to, when he walks up for me, not to get giddy thinking about watching him growing up as a kid. I probably will still always feel that way. But when the press conference started, Tiger was saying to the right of me, and I had to start a question off,

just a basic kind of get it going. And you know, I'm a little nervous and I asked Tiger, I said, Tiger, how's your foot? Everybody wants to know because you just pulled out of the hero world challenge that prior week and he said, it's good. And I said, like just one word, it's good. And I said, what's your expectations for today? When?

And I said to myself, oh my gosh, he just gave me two one word answer to this. This is going to be awful. And as we went on, man, it opened up and it was so fun. It not that everybody got to see it, but it was, I think it's on YouTube, go check it out. But it was a really fun interview. Rory was like, he's so funny. Rory's hilarious. And I got to spend some time with him at JT's wedding. It really got

to know him even better. But Tiger was great too. And then I mean, Justin, Jordan, so easy for me to talk to because we have so many, we talk every day. So that was the easy part. But that first interview though, Tiger, he showed me who the boss was. Welcome to the beddlings here. Yeah. Well, that match was interesting in terms of having Jordan and Justin mic'd up. I don't think we've ever seen them play together.

Mic'd up as far as I know, it was kind of like, oh, that is what chemistry looks like. That's why you can't just enter in pairings into a computer algorithm and spit it out. It's like, that's just, that made a lot more sense after seeing that. There's tough to be, man. Ricky and I have taken them on for years.

And we want our fair share of battles, but I tell you what, Jordan will always pull shenanigan out or JT will birdie 17 or 18. And next thing you know, we're we owe him 500 bucks. It's like, dang, that was quick. So on this on this note, I'm asking maybe a different question about about Bakers Bade spring break 2k 16, whatever year that was was it seems like in golf, things have

a tendency to be distilled down to like, he is this guy. Like, oh, yeah, that's blah, blah, blah, blah. It's Joel Damon. He he's the guy took a shirt off at the waste management like I think that's the takeaway from the full swing despite him kind of opening up a vein and being very honest. You guys became like the spring break crew for how long did you hear it do you still hear it would people you know you're walking inside the ropes and things like that. And did you have, after all did you have any moment of like, man, did we, was this a good idea? You know what at the time it was, we were all fairly young and after that first one, we all needed it, you know, the Augusta event

for Jordan and I and then JT had just, I think JT and Rick played terrible at Hilton Head. And we got to Augusta and it was just a, a free for all and when there was never grads it was when most of us was fairly active on social media but I still get like you were saying and and crowds and stuff. People just want to be invited and they just want to go but get a comment by me the next spring break but now I think spring breaks for us now in future is going to be SB 2K get to bed by 930.

It was kind of like a, you know, we, it was a big deal at the time, but it was kind of a turning point in the PGA tour and professional golf in terms of like, man, I started doing this, you know, covering golf in some way back in like 2014 and it wasn't like the, it wasn't the hippest, coolest time period in golf. Like it was kind of a transition period into what you know kind of the This younger phase that you know a lot of the names we watch we can week out We're kind of coming around right around that time and that was that seemed to be a changing of the guard around the time Well, we we were putting most of it out on on Snapchat on our like on our stories So I don't yeah to your point. I don't think

The Brian gay and the VJ sings the world like you're talking about, we're using Snapchat stories to communicate to an audience. So yes, it was kind of that sweet spot of like golf media was still growing and it's almost like we had players that had more followers than the PGA tour. For instance, Ricky or whoever, you know it. So it is crazy

how much golf media has exploded since that time period. All right, Smiley, we're going to let you go, man. Greatly appreciate a very fun hour of golf chat. I have a feeling we'll be doing. Hopefully more of this into the future. I'm guessing you'll be you'll be Bay Hill and you'll be in jacks with players. We got to try to try to catch up as well. But thanks so much for the time and for opening up and everything.

This was great. So appreciate it. Best of luck with the new gig. We're excited to watch you this year on TV. Thank you. I enjoyed any time. And I look forward to breaking down some future golf. You boys love it.

Cheers. Be the right club. Be the right club today. Yes. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most.

Better than most! Expect anything different!