No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 693: The Day After

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

As the golf world attempts to make sense of yesterday's PGA Tour - Saudi PIF - DP World Tour announcement, we do our best to offer a wide-ranging view of the repercussions from the perspectives of various stakeholders in the game. This episode includes: DJ is joined by Big Randy for his thoughts on yesterday's news, what led us to this point, and what could/should have been done differently on the part of PGA Tour leadership. A recap of audio from Rory's press conference ahead of the Canadian Open (51:00) John Nucci of Conduct Detrimental on the potential legal challenges that will arise from both the US DOJ and European regulators (1:05:45). An assortment of quotes today from Jay Monahan on Golf Channel (1:20:00), Bryson on CNN (1:23:15) and press conference audio from Mackenzie Hughes and Corey Conners (1:29:00) Cody and Big Randy with DJ on Saudi Arabia and the PIF's potential expansion into women's professional golf (1:40:30) Rose Zhang closes us out on a positive note and she visits with Soly and DJ on the heels of her first professional win over the weekend (2:16:15) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. have the dissolution and reassembly of elite men's professional golf on our calendars. That one kind of caught us by surprise. So apologies there, but we're doing the best we can. We know we got to give a shout out to our friends at Roeback. You all know Roeback.

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We've got a lot of new stuff to talk about. A lot of new shit has come to light. And so what we're gonna do is put together kind of like a little bit of a variety show. We're gonna talk to some of the 700 people that we reached out to to try to get on the show. We're gonna hear from hopefully some players. We're gonna hear from some legal experts. We're going to hear from some legal experts.

We're going to hear from some voices of the fan, which is where we want to start now. No bigger fan that I know than this guy who's joining us right now. He's just back from cattying at the US Open Sections. That is, of course, my guy, Big Randy, who is here to talk to us all about, you know, the PJ tour developments as well as the call up of Ellie Dela Cruz to the Cincinnati Reds. Randy, hello greetings.

How are you? I'm great. Big comeback. When last night at Great American ballpark, Ellie was electrifying the home crowd. But no, I'm happy to come on, offer some opinions. I probably should stress to people, although I am in the lead-off spot, I certainly think they're gonna be more interesting and well-informed people behind me. So sometimes with that lead-off hitter, Randy, you're just looking like maybe a punt first hitter of the game,

maybe someone lays down a punt and it just gets the home crowd absolutely into it, you know? Yeah, yeah, a bun. I'm thinking I, and if not that, we just got to try to see a lot of pitches. I'm trying to give my guys behind me real good looks at the pitcher stuff. I think that's exactly right.

All right, so let's, let's start here. We did a podcast yesterday. It was very lengthy. We had a lot of information. We spent all day yesterday reporting, calling everybody, trying to figure out what the hell is going on. And as I was kind of laying in bed thinking about it afterwards, as you can probably imagine, Randy, this stuff is a little

hard to turn off at times. I was kind of thinking, you know, it's crazy how quickly I think we got to a point of like calm rationality, like, oh, of course, this is kind of what had to happen. And I think that comes from having a lot of super complex information that you're trying to synthesize. And by the end of the day, I think all you can kind of do is be like, all right, what do we know? Let's lay down all the facts. And I think what that kind of did, at least, you know, speaking personally for me, is it almost removes a lot of emotion and reaction to a day that was like, incredibly emotional and reactive. And so, Rainy, it was fun catching up with you on Slack.

You were on an airplane yesterday kind of watching the world burn. And I think probably had a little different impression than us who were kind of trying to button up like what's right and what's not. And I think maybe a little bit more of a, uh, a big picture to look at it. And so I'm curious, if you would agree with all of that and if so kind of, where do you stand? What was your initial reaction to things yesterday? How'd you hear about what happened?

What did you think when you, when you saw it? Yeah. Um, I, I think you're exactly right. I think what stood out to me first and foremost was just the manner in which I found out about the news. And that was through two buddies that have nothing to do with golf. They both work in, well, financial institutions and a finance department and are both more or less glued to CNBC and Bloomberg throughout their work days. They were sending me screenshots of, uh, of the news being reported and was like, holy shit, Randy, what is going on? And I'm like, guys, I have no idea.

Like, usually, Sali and DJ and Tron, they'll, you know, I would have heard rumblings of this on our slack or these guys would bench and stuff weeks ago, right? Because we're privy to a lot of rumors and smoke and I think what was most startling right off the bat was just the pure shock of the news. And so that kind of framed my mindset and reaction, I feel like, for at least a good part of Tuesday, and it was a lot different. I think that anything that I've experienced, we've experienced, and I think we can get into, but I think is interesting as we digest and think about what all happened yesterday.

Yeah. And I think that's exactly right. And that's kind of where I've kind of come to today is like, all right, yesterday is just about like, hey, the power is off at the house and we need to figure out like what the fuck's going on, right? We can't just be talking about like how dark it is. Like let's let's try to find the circuit breaker. Let's try to figure out what's going on and like figure out the facts, which, which again, like I think we did a pretty good job of figuring all that stuff out.

And now it feels like today, things have kind of hit me a little bit more as far as just like, all right, what is, what does all this mean? Like where are we going? Well, how did we get here in the first place? Like, you know, a bit of it kind of feels like, you know, we got to a point where it was like, hey guys, the house was on fire and using a lot of house metaphors.

The house was on fire and great news. We all escaped. There were no casualties. You know, time to fly the fucking banner, mission accomplished. We rocked them. And it's hard now that, you know, the house, the fucking banner mission accomplished. We rocked them. And it's hard now that, you know, the house everybody's out of the house to not be like,

well, maybe we shouldn't have been smoking in bed, right? Like why was the house on fire in the first place? And I think that's maybe if I'm teeing you up for some of what you were feeling or at least what you were kind of sharing offline. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. Before I get into that too,

one of the things that made me chuckle throughout the day yesterday, and if I may brag on you and Tron and Sali, and the work that you guys were doing behind the scenes, reaching out to people, collecting information, the best you could, synthesizing that information, not really wanting to rush to judgment. I mean, it certainly doesn't make as big J journalists, but there was some of that going on yesterday. And I mention it because some of our good, certainly across the pond, old school journalists that, you know,

like to make a big deal about being independent golf journalists. And have poked our way a little bit like when we did the PGA championship broadcast and signifying that we aren't independent and are getting paid by, I don't know, the tournaments, the PGA tour. Anyway, I just wanna say, if there was a day ever for independent golf media,

I think Tuesday was it. And just being honest, didn't see a whole lot of output out of a lot of the guys that claimed to be independent golf journalists. So that aside. Fired up today. You're mad as hell. I'm mad as hell.

I'm mad as hell. I'm mad as hell. So initially, I went straight to Jay Mottahann and thinking about it occurs to me and DJ, please jump in and correct me if I'm wrong because I want to make this disclaimer. I realize I'm not the most informed person. I do not know all of what's going on. I don't know the specifics. All I can give you is my opinion and interpretation. But to me, it seems like, I don't know. Let's say three years ago,

somewhere between three and four years ago, when we first started hearing about the PGL and maybe a Saudi Gulf League, there were avenues available if Jay wanted to explore being a bit proactive, being a bit creative in which I think he probably could have I think he probably could have gotten to where we found ourselves yesterday, again, three years ago. And that is where I immediately went to is I feel like Jay through, I don't know if it's pride, I don't know if it's like, did they not game out the saudi live threat?

Did they not recognize, hey, these guys are for real? Did they not know their own house was a lot messier than perhaps they thought it was? Whatever the reason, were they just stupid? Whatever the reason, it seems like we went a long way and there was real damage done to real people throughout the last two and a half years. Whatever this timeline has been where where live has gotten started and emerged till yesterday. And all we did was go in a gigantic circle. And to me, I feel like Jay is at the center of that,

as the commissioner of the PGA tour, as sitting in a seat where there was opportunity to get out in front of this, to explore unlocking more capital, bringing more capital into men's professional golf, exploring a team match play, team golf format. And he didn't do it. And so for me, it's just like, I think then we have to look at all of this through two

lenses. And one is a very micro current lens, what you mentioned earlier. If we look at this deal, if I would have dropped down from space yesterday and somebody explained to me, here's the situation, Randy, here's the deal you're going to make. Do you think that sounds reasonable? I'd be like, yeah, honestly, I don't, what other choice do we have? It seems like, yeah, it seems like a good deal. But it's very important to zoom out and to take in this broader, more macro perspective.

And that's where I get back to, God, I feel like we could have avoided a bunch of bullshit. Guys' lives could have been a lot easier. People like Rory, people like Max. We can get into more specifics. I mean, the 9-11 families didn't have to be drug into this. And it's like, man, that's tough to ignore. And I don't know how you could look at the job

J. Monahan has done to essentially complete this circle. And not just be like, this is is a disaster man. This is awful. If you put this case study into any classroom in America, it would have to be don't do it this way. And I don't know. I called him a moron on Twitter yesterday. I went back a couple times. I'm the official desk for the desk of Bigger Andy. Yeah. I'm like, that, is that too strong? You know, and it's like, I just don't think it is, man, he, he, he absolutely failed to be proactive. He seemingly, whether through his own doing or through lives doing gets maneuvered into a corner where this looks like the only option he had left.

And we can get into this too. To me, it's like this was not a moment of opportunity. This felt like a moment of, we better do this to save our ass. And to then come out and be on like a victory tour and, you know, just to pretend that we're all idiots. And we didn't live through the last two and a half three years It just I can't I can't get down with that. It just like come on man I've said before don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. No, thank you Yeah, there's a lot there that in none of which I disagree with I think a couple things for for context, right?

Because I think that I Feel like we were weirdly, I mean, listen, the boys say a lot of stuff. So I'm certainly not going to claim victory on any of this. But I think we were pretty far out ahead on the PGL stuff of like, hey, man, take a meeting. This seems like this is so obviously, like I remember the first time we heard about the PGL concept.

And granted, I'm a fucking idiot. And I don't know like the inner workings of anything and I'm just who I am. But the first time I you probably remember like the first time all of us heard about that and coming out of that meeting was just like, oh guys like it's it's like it's not over but it's like kind of over like Like this is it. Like this is where we're going. And whether it's through this or whether it's through somebody else or whether it's through whatever, like the PJ tour feels like it is so small right now compared to what would ever happen if this sort of money like gets dumped in here. So I don't, I'm not going to like Monday morning quarterback because I would have fucked it up so much worse. And that's not what I'm trying to say. But I think there was that on the table,

like, and to not even acknowledge that is pretty, insulting or at best, and kind of like delusional at worst. Yeah, on the flip side of that, there's a bit of a frog in the boiling water going on where like, it's really, really hard to change things when the train feels like a runaway success, right? Like you have all these, if you go back over the last three years, you have the new TV deal, you have like the changing to some of the structure stuff. You have like all of these things

where it was just like, man, the PJ Tour is in better shape than ever and they just keep and the PJ tour is in better shape than ever. And they just keep stacking up these like, you know, what looked like many W's now, but I think at the time felt like major, major wins. Which I will just jump in and clarify. I think there are wins from a balance sheet, yes, a little standpoint, but as we've, I mean, since the inception of NLU,

what we've been moaned is nobody in golf leadership, certainly not the PGA tour has been proactive, and they're not doing anything to change the consumer experience. And I guess if they are doing anything, it's reactive and at a glacial pace. So sorry, go ahead. I think that's, that's totally right.

And that's where I kind of go back to that point is like, that's what it would have taken to recognize at that time was like, man, everything's going great. Players are super happy. Purses are going up. TV contracts are bolstered for the next nine years. The things have seemingly like never been better. Okay, let's blow it up just in case this Saudi thing is for real and let's partner with the Saudis to like totally reshape the structure of the PJ tour. Like that would have been a

fucking dumpster fire too. Like that would have been a disaster. So I just want to be fair, at least somewhat there that it's like, yes, I'm with you that like it would have been Difficult. What it should have happened, but I also get why that didn't happen. And that's not a pass. I'm just, you know, being really clear. Yeah. I think I don't think it necessarily had to be a dumpster fire. I think with the leadership in place, it invariably would have been a dumpster fire. But I do think there's a universe in which golf has energetic, proactive leaders that may have been able to get out in front of this and thread that needle in that, hey, I know things are good now, but there are real threats around the corner that it's gonna be better for us to get out ahead of proactively

rather than reactively. And now I think, like, just kind of moving through the timeline because I think it's helpful. So now the PGL stuff comes and goes and we've talked about that at Nazim and how the Saudis kind of took that idea and spun it up into live. And now we don't really have to re-litigate that

as fun as it might be. And so now Jay is on his back foot in defense mode and chooses to go the route of legacy, not leverage, 9-11 families. You've never had to apologize for being a member of the PJ tour. And I think that's the toughest stuff to stomach for me. And I don't think this is not a, let's boycott Bud Light. Like, I don't think we're being like reactionary, like making this political. That is like to what you said, Randy, like, man, you can't play that card, which is kind of the biggest emotional

cards that you possibly have as like an American. You can't play that card and then show up on CMBC and be like, oh no, no, no, no, no, come on. I was just saying what I needed to say. Like dude, you don't get to have it both ways. And I know that this was probably the right thing to do for the PJ Tour balance sheet and probably the right thing to do for the PJ Tour players and probably the right thing to do, like, you know,

maybe in a macro sense. But man, from, you know, maybe in a macro sense, but man, from a fans perspective, like, there's no reason that any of us have to feel good about that. There's no reason any of us have to, you know, not have fire Jay Monahan t-shirts. Like, that had to be kind of, kind of expected as complicated as the situation is. You still like, man, you can't play like that. God, that's tough. No, you know, it's tough. It's tough. And I think, well, I think a couple of things. I think just to

underscore, I mean, I'm trying to think about the 9-11 victims' families, right? And I didn't know, I didn't know anybody that lost their life on 9-11. So I don't know the very real visceral pain and emotion. But what I can say is for however many thousands of people, 9-11 has forever changed their life, right? And it has left a hole in their life. And I'm sure these people feel like there has been no justice for their loved ones. And for 20, what, three years, it has been probably the defining, most important issue in their life, right?

And so, on the one hand, imagine, Jay Monahan last year, seemingly joining your struggle, right? Invoking 9-11, invoking everything that comes with it, sitting on TV and saying, you know, drawing clear lines between, you know, right and wrong, at least in certain opinions. And then having that just pulled out from under you, it's tough to overstate for me how shitty that is. And it leads me to believe unless we're just dealing with absolute sociopaths, which I don't think we can rule out definitively, it really says to me this deal as much as they want to spin it about opportunity and we saw we could do this and we had to strike now, it feels to me like it was out of necessity

in that we have to do something right now or else the PGA tour as we know it might cease to exist. And that's exactly where I'm at. And this is where I'm gonna now flip my hat around like completely and go to the total, like put my higher J. Monahan hat on for just a second. And just also paint the picture that like if we don't get through the last year with the PJ tour intact, the way that it is.

And I'm not saying somebody else couldn't have done this better, but like just to call it as it kind of went down, right? If we lose, I shouldn't say we, if the PJ tour loses, Scotty Sheffler and John Rom and Victor Havland and Jordan Spief and Justin Thomas and eventually Roy McElroy and all of these guys, like the PJ tour also doesn't exist a year from now to even do this partnership deal.

So like there was another way to go where, you know, a year ago, we lose all of those guys as golf fans to live. And now there is no partnership with the PJ Tour, there is no anything, it's just live and that's it. Like I think you can't really overstate like just how quickly the PJ Tour could have disappeared with like not delaying this until this negotiation got to a point where what happened yesterday was possible. Does that make sense?

It does. It does. And I think that's right. And again, that's where it's like, if we want to start the timeline on the merits of exactly what is going on on June 6th and what it looks like going forward, it might be a good deal and the best deal that they can do and absolutely something they ought to have done. But I just go back to, I just refuse to like, how Jey and his top associates, executives, not game out this exact scenario? Even after Liv became kind of a thing, how are you not gaming out? Hey, we have to assume they have an unlimited war chest. So what does that mean for us? And then even again, even prior to

that with, I'm sure they heard rumblings of live and new leagues and all of that to not be proactive, to stubbornly allegedly refused to even take meetings, take calls. That's what I mean, I just can't give them a pass. Totally. No, I know you're not doing it. No, no, no, I fully agree. To me, that outweighs, you know, any good maneuvering, I guess. No, I totally agree. And I think a buddy of mine sent me a text this morning that like put it in a better way than I think I've heard anywhere else. And it was kind of like from 5,000 feet, like this fucking sucks and this is super, super shitty. From 10,000 feet, you kind of are like, man,

this feels like a pretty good deal. It seems like we're on the right track here and from 50,000 feet, it's kind of like this was always inevitable and how did we like not see this coming, right? And that kind of spells it all out for me. like, man, if you have a leader that has this existential threat coming and doesn't see the 50,000 foot view, then we're going to end up where we ended up today yesterday.

And so let me ask you this is if we're to assume that the PIF, the end goal was really to make a huge investment in men's pro golf and to gain, I don't know, we'll call it a seat, but it really seems like a decent amount of power and say. I struggle with yes, I see on the surface, like, no, we don't want that. Let's not do that. But again, if it does seem inevitable,

then like, let's just, let's get this deal done in the most effective, efficient manner possible. And then we could have avoided the last two and a half years of again, you know, real, real pain and real kind of like we talk about Rory, you know, how many more people today think so much less of Rory than they did two and a half years ago. Our good friend Max, right, the darling of Twitter over the last year has seen, you know, half of his Twitter replies, all of a

sudden turn nasty. Like has that been fun for him? Phil Mikkelson has tarnished his legacy in reputation with a good amount of golf fans. He might not care, but like that seems like it should matter. And that's where I just get like, man, it seems like we could have avoided a lot of bullshit. And not only that big, but what if I told you we're at like, I think we might be like half time here. Like what? Yeah. I also don't think that this is just gonna be like,

oh cool, we'll just wave it all through and we'll see you guys out the first tee at the fucking playoffs. Like it's all wrapped up and we'll just move on. We on. We're we're at the dawn of a new day. So talk to me about that. I think that's where we go next is I think the things that really shocked me, caught my attention yesterday in the moment was holy shit. Nobody knew about this. Yeah.

I mean, Tiger wasn't tipped off. Rory wasn't tipped off until, I guess, the night before he he's saying, senior executives at the tour did not know. Nobody knew. Why is that? And with that, like, I guess, what can we make about the timing of this announcement? Because the other thing that initially yesterday,

I think everybody was talking about, this is a done deal, but this is a proposed agreement of which we know zero actual details for how anything's going to be and consist. And we know nothing about it. And yet, everybody is proclaiming, we are, this has saved golf, this is great for the fan. This has set up pro golf for the next 10 years.

And they're just asking us to take their word on it. And I have a, not a little problem. I have a big problem with that. Well, especially on the heels of, you know, what, I mean, man, not to be too cute about it, but like the 9-11 thing is a pretty fucking stark example of like, hey, if you're willing to go to those lengths, like, I just don't think I'm going to take your word

on anything anymore, out of self-preservation. I think maybe we just kind of see how it plays out, rather than really trusting you and joining you at the victory party I'm totally with you there and I think so you asked a lot of questions there. You asked a lot of great questions big So like I said, we're gonna do a little variety show today one of the people that we're gonna talk to is John Nucci who's a lawyer and has been following kind of like the initial live versus PJ tour case very closely and so that's coming up later in the show He and I waited into a little bit of that, but I think the headline is like, truly don't know.

Like we're, there's, it's hard. I mean, I guess the headline would be this. It's like, we don't have any fucking details of any of this stuff. So how do we know like what the DOJ is gonna do, what the FTC is gonna do, what the, you know, what the policy board is gonna vote for, what the, you know, what the policy board is going to vote for, what the players are supposed to feel like.

Like, I think this was kind of, Mav McNeely put out a statement and, of course, like, it was very lengthy, which I don't think is a bad thing and I think many people in Twitter do think is a bad thing. But the reaction that I saw to it was both like, this is a brilliant way to think about this and also like, I didn't read all that, but I'm happy for you. Or sad that happened. And I think

his letter, which essentially I'm massively paraphrasing, but it said like, I was super mad at the player meeting yesterday. I asked a lot of questions. I also have no information to really go off of. I also kind of have to trust the leadership because that's the structure that we're in. And I just, I guess we'll see what happens. And at people, of course, are just like, man, he didn't fucking say anything. And you know, it's a long,

with word salad, blah, blah, blah. And I think it just sums up this entire situation, which is like, man, none of it is black and white. And I know it's so much more fun if it is. And I know it's so much easier to is like, man, none of it is black and white. And I know it's so much more fun if it is. And I know it's so much easier to be like, Jay bad or Jay good, Jay dumb, Jay smart, Rory, Cuck, Rory awesome. Like I know all of that stuff is like very easy, but like, God damn man, that's not what it is. And it's so complicated if you want to get into it. But I think what's super interesting and this is where I guess I would throw it back to you is at some point like does any of that context matter, right?

And or are we just going to is this just going to get distilled down into a collection of like Phil was right. Monahan did 9 11 and like Saadi Gulf League. Like what do you think is gonna happen? Well, I guess I would have to put myself in different people's shoes because I think if you're Rory, those details and what ends up happening

with, hey, am I gonna get a metric ton of cash or not? Like that obviously matters. And that's gonna color whether this is a good thing for him or not. If I put myself in the shoes of myself as a golf fan, whether Rory makes 200 million or not, I don't give a, excuse my language. I don't give a flying fuck, right? It is, is ProGolf going to be more fun to watch?

Is it going to be more interesting? Is it going to be a better television product? That's ultimately what I care about. And I guess cynically, I don't expect much along those lines. I expect much more along the former, right? We'll find a way to take care of Rory and JT and Spieth and Rom and Sheffler and those guys that didn't go. I mean, Monahan's already talking about rewarding their loyalty,

but, and that's certainly one prism in which to discuss all this. But again, I think at the end of the day, the thing I care most about is like, when I flip on golf on a Sunday afternoon, is it gonna be better for me? And there are no details. And again, I expect not much in the end.

And so from that point, it's like, what am I supposed to get all excited about? Yeah, maybe eventually we'll have all the guys playing in like the same events. And is that better than what it has been fractured week to week? Yeah, that's better. But man, is it worth what we're doing? I think that's another question. Honestly, I don't know. I Guess I don't know the answer quite yet to that. And big, let me just throw this one at E2 like as long as we're kind of trying to say the quiet parts out loud here. We're also not even talking about like the majors, right? Like I know I know there's a chance that like this allows more of the live guys to like get into the majors, but I would say that all the guys that we would have missed

at the majors were already at the majors and nothing really changed as far as fields go. But like what's so crazy, I was talking to KVV about it this morning is like all of this like shit show. If you man, if you're like getting down to brass tax and you're being super non-charitable about like the PJ Tour stance in the game, is we're kind of talking about

how to treat preseason games, right? And you're talking about how many billions of dollars we need to pour into preseason games, when in reality, again, if you're most golf fans, all you're thinking about is like, yeah, I'd love to watch the memorial so that it kind of lets me know who I should bet on at the US Open, right? And it's like, that's the part that I haven't been able to shake for like 10 years is that

pit in my stomach of just like, man, it seems like the, like the engine on this, like this ocean liner just keeps getting like way too big for the engine that's driving it. And I don't know how, I don't know how, like, purses can keep going up this much on the PJ tour. I don't know how TV rights can keep going up this much on the PJ tour. I don't know how the PJ tour can keep being saddled with the burden of essentially paying the salaries for the whole year of all of these guys without owning any of the biggest events in golf. Like man, it really seems like that's gonna have

to come to a head at some point. And I think my read speculation, like my read is exactly what you said earlier, which is I think they must have taken a look at the books and realized legal fees. I don't know how we're gonna get, like let me say it this way. If the designated events stuff seemed like a smashing success

and it seemed like, oh my god, sponsors are lining up for this new beat down our stores. There's a lot of labyrinth for it big. They can't get enough of the designated events. I think if that was what was going on, like I don't think they're coming to the table to squash a competitor that has no revenue, right? And Ditto, like if Liv was some runaway success, I don't think that the PIF is coming to the table to squash, like, you know, to basically like put a bullet in its own head on this live stuff. So all of that is to say like it just seemed like the mechanism was just completely out of whack and it seemed like maybe both sides realized that and now we're in another world where everybody is, of course, running the same playbook and just, you have no idea how big this

is going to be for golf. You don't know what these billions of dollars are going to do. At which point, I kind of flip to, like like, yeah man, that must be why everybody fucking loves the FedEx cup, because there's so much money involved. That must be why the WGC's ruled so hard, was because there was so much guaranteed money involved. Like, man, unless you bring in somebody who's going to like, change this product as a fan,

like I really don't see how some exponential growth is going to happen in the world of elite men's professional golf outside of the majors. Because I just I don't think if you're like, man, from the brains that brought you the FedEx cup and the fireballs comes like this product that is just inescapable, you can't turn it off. Color me just a hair dubious on that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know,

it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know, it's not that, you know open. It's gotten better. I guess it's got to show

the DP world. Yeah, still exists. I guess would be another another one. Sure. There's a strategic alliance between the PGA tour and the LPGA. That that that would make me backburtered. I'm struggling to find what the PGA tour has done in their infinite wisdom with their strategic partner to make anything better, right? We're going to get the McGladry silly season exhibition mixed event, which again, praise a tiny amount of progress. But if that's the best we can do, I have no confidence in the details of this whatever they're going to be of this agreement, like making me more of a rabid week to week pro men's golf fan. I just don't buy it. And then youth

factor in, man, they did like listen to these guys, they will say anything, they've completely 180 their opinions. And again, on things that I think carry a little weight, 9-11 victims, right? It's not like, I call you a Patriot man, but I'm gonna go out on that live and just say maybe that was a shitty thing to do. It's not like changing your mind

about what you're gonna have for dinner. Changing your mind can be good, but these are kind of clearly what you're going to have for dinner. Changing your mind can be good, but these are kind of clearly delineated moral stances that we've completely brushed away and now, you know, we're supposed to. Yeah, I know we thought that, but not really. And trust us, this is going to grow the game, man. We are going to bring golf to so many more people. We are inspiring DJ young golfers like never before to want to chase their dreams.

And when it when the platitudes get that fucking mundane and just boring and it's just like nope, nope, nope, spidey senses are just blaring over here for me. Well, I don't trust it at all. Well, I also think it kind of tips like that there's not anything else there, right? Like that's like the, you know, the historic talking point of like, man, we don't have much else, but everybody's kind of getting paid. Yeah, exactly. Well, this is a fucking depressing conversation.

Well, I mean, yeah, man, it is. It is. And if I can, because again, I was trying to watch the stream from the plane, the Wi-Fi is a bit spotty. I was following along on Slack a little bit. So forgive me if you guys kind of went into detail, but I don't think as much as maybe to my liking and now we're however many hours later, if you could speculate a little bit on the evolution of the player reaction from when the news initially broke to kind of where we stand now, at least in terms of the more prominent players. How would you speculate that has shifted?

So, a couple of things. I think it's interesting not to break up your question, but I think it's interesting not only from the prominent players, but like the divide within the PJ tour is going to be really interesting because I think the mood in the room and we're trying to get some players on this podcast. Hopefully we can have that after our conversation. But the mood in the room was very obviously not good. And there are plenty, plenty, plenty of people, you know, just from the stuff that was out

there. I saw Kyle Westmoreland, who was a, you know, military veteran stood up and was essentially like, hey, not crazy about this man with a pretty unique perspective, don't love it. That was interesting. I, you know, there was the thing about Grayson Murray calling for Jay's job, which we touched on, you know, Grayson Murray 2024 put him in the role, I would say. But I think there is from a like, you know, Grayson Murray 2024, put him in the role, I would say.

But I think there is from a like, you know, forgive Randy, but we have a lot of fun. I'm gonna call him the Mules. From a Mule perspective, I think there's something interesting on like, man, if you didn't take the money, it's probably not coming around. Right? Like I don't think if you're, you know,

someone like Brendan Ste a Brendan steel equivalent And you you chose not to take that money like I don't think this you know reunification fund or or kind of the net up Make whole fund is coming around to the Brendan steel equivalents and say like man You deserve your Million dollars or 600 grand or whatever live was going to pay for somebody of that ilk, right? So I think that's an interesting perspective that like those guys probably have almost a bigger beef to be.

I wouldn't say bigger. I think those guys have a very like legitimate beef with like what the fuck. Yes. And then from a more prominent player perspective, I got it. I mean, this is speculation, like I said, but I'm going off of Rory's quotes in the press conference today. I'm going off a kind of like sentiment of, you know, based around that stuff is like, it seems like the guys almost realize, like, you know, I don't know how to, I don't know how to say it. That doesn't sound so like cold

and calculating. Obviously, there is some of that in there, but I think once you see the, let's go back to the 100,000, 50,000 foot view, whatever I said earlier, of this was always inevitable and it's kind of done. I don't know what you do. Do you go riot in the street and say,

bring me Jay's head. Do you say I'm mad as hell. We'll never vote for this knowing that like under the hood a bunch of smart people already looked at it and saw that like the path we were going down was totally unsustainable. You know what I'm saying? Like you know what I'm getting at? I don't know how you I don't know how you kind of hear that laid out. Again. I'm assuming that had to be part of this. I don't know how you kind of essentially hear somebody lay out like, do you think this was our first fucking option? Like we obviously had to do this.

Here's the reasons why. I don't know how you like hear that conversation and then be like, yeah, well, I don't like it. Fix it. Like I don't think it's that simple, right? So I would have to assume that you're going to see a lot of the top players be like, you know, yeah, kind of feel used. That was pretty shitty, but like it seems like a lot of positives, right? Like I just assumed

that's what we're going to hear from guys. I think that's right. I think candidly, I'm struggling with the same thing in my reaction. That, I mean, that's what we talked about. You can, if you start the timeline in 2019, I'm pissed, man. And this sucks, and you guys are shit. And if you start the timeline on June 1st of this year, then it's like, um, yeah, like I'm not happy about it, but okay, I guess we have to. And that's what I think Rory just had kind of like a little bit of resignation on his face

as he's describing it, right? It's like, yeah, would have been sick to not have gone through that over the last couple of years, but I think we ended up getting it to the best place that we could have gotten it to considering the course of action that we took essentially. I guess my only thing where I would have, I don't know, if I try to imagine myself in Rory's position like that, would probably be two

things. And the first is, OK, I understand this. I'm going to look bad. But if this is what we have to do, this is what we have to do. With that said, Jay, you can stay on until this becomes a done deal. And then we're clean in house. I'm going to need totally new ownership. That we haven't heard guys kind of get to that point yet is frankly very surprising to me. And almost the opposite.

Where I feel like we've heard rumblings of guys we're like making in passioned speeches on behalf of Jay and almost being like, man, look at what he's doing and that I just cannot square with reality. And I think what's really interesting about it is, again, I put myself in this bucket as well as somebody who is basically, you know, my job is to like get on a golf podcast and make dick jokes, right? Like I'm no Titan of industry.

Like that's what I'm best at. And so like if you're, you're trying to like make me into some M&A genius or some MBA who should have seen this coming and knows all the right moves, like obviously man, that is not me. And I think it's pretty clear that it's also not these players, right? Like I think they're like doing the best they can, but I don't think that they are business geniuses.

I think they're kind of like being told what they're being told. And I don't I wonder if you had other like I would imagine people around the business world are pulling their fucking hair out saying like what are you guys doing? But I think that's a much harder spot to get to for a guy who is whose job is to be like a top 10 player in the world. But okay, so I mentioned I would do two things. And I said the first would be, I think I would probably caveat any of my statements yesterday with, if this is what we must do, fine,

but we need to explore new leadership as soon as this is over. The second thing would be, if I'm Rory specifically and I have essentially taken the mantle of quasi PGA tour commissioner. I think I'm not, I don't think I'm either not doing the press conference yesterday or Wednesday morning. Or I'm saying, I don't know, ask Jay. Ask Jimmy, ask Ed Hurley. Like those guys, I'm done being the mouthpiece.

Those guys are working on the deal. Let them tell you about it. I'm just a golfer. I'll find out like everybody else because it seems to me he's been, I mean, he's been kind of used and honestly burned a little bit through this. And like what, if he didn't want to do the press conference,

if he didn't want to have to try to sell this, like what's gonna happen? Right. They're not gonna make him hold. They're like, what? They're not gonna reward his loyalty. No, and that kind of gets us back to all our independent contractor stuff, right?

It's not like you're getting fined for not doing media. Like, yeah, yeah, you're totally right. And that's where, again, I think it's like, here's where all the people who hate the Rory stuff can turn the podcast off. But like, that's where it's like, man, what I'm kind of seeing is a guy that's like trying to do the right thing and trying to keep saying what is on his mind and trying to be honest and trying to suss out all the info and has he been wrong about stuff? Yes, for sure.

What have you've done stuff differently? I promise that he would, but it's also like, I don't know, man, it's why we like him. So I would be like, root form is like it's very relatable watching someone try to put the pieces together, even when you know like, man, that's probably not the right move in a savvier business shark would have probably shut up by now. I don't think it comes from like a place of ego or something like that. I think he's just, I think he's trying to do the right thing. Yeah, it almost comes from a place of like, dude, you're being too nice. Like for these people, like these people are kind of pieces of shit to me.

And why are you up here trying carrying their water? You got a young family. You got what? Quarter of a bill in the bank, maybe? God dang, I don't, I wouldn't need that. I'll see. I'm flying home. I'll see you out the US open. Well, I'll tell you what, big. We heard from Rory today in the press room. This aforementioned press conference. We've got a kind of an edited version of that. Why don't we play that now? Why don't we wrap up this conversation? We'll hear from Rory. Like I said, you know, apologies to our neighbors to the north, but we did edit out some of the questions about Rory. How would you play the 18th hole at Oakville? This is going to be mostly this stuff related to the PJ tour and the the Piff and things of that nature. So we'll hear from that. Randy, we're going to hear from you a little later in the

podcast. We're going to talk about maybe how this impacts the LPGA potentially. We're going to hear from Rose Zhang, who feels like she won 200 years ago at Liberty National, but we do have an interview with her that we're going to hear. So let's get to that and we'll hear from you down the road. Thanks for letting me vent anytime. A quick break before we move in to also check in with another

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87% of people say they feel healthier with whoop, 87% of people say they feel healthier with whoop. That seems like a lot of people to me. Go to whoop.com, wh-o-o-p.com and use code NLU to save 10% on your order. Thank you to whoop for your sponsorship. And now let's get back to the show. So first things first, we're going gonna hear from Rory McElroy. We are not going to have him on the podcast,

but he did media availability today at the RBC Canadian Open. Spoke for quite a while with the media. And so what we've done here is try to edit down that press conference to kind of the questions and answers that were pertinent to this discussion. I think Rory is obviously one of the questions and answers that were pertinent to this discussion. I think Rory is obviously one of the foremost names in this entire conversation and probably will continue to be so,

so rather than trying to synthesize what he said or what he meant or what he thought, we just figured we would roll a lot of this press conference audio and kind of let you hear for himself. So first up is going to be Rory McElroy. audio and kind of let you hear for himself. So first up is going to be Rory McElroy. Hey Rory, yesterday's news, I guess, how and where were you when you received it and how did it make you feel? Yeah, so I got a text message on Monday night, I guess, from Jimmy Dunn, saying, hey, can I give you a call in the morning? So sit here. Jimmy rang me at about 6.30 yesterday morning. We had a chat.

It took me through the news, it took me through the deal, the structure of the deal, what it meant for us, what it meant for the DP World Tour. So yeah, I learned about it pretty much at the same time everyone else did. And yeah, it was a surprise. I knew there had been discussions going on in the background. I knew that lines of communication had been opened up. I obviously didn't expect it to happen as quickly as it did.

But I really think that, you know, from what I gather, the tour felt they were in a real position of strength, coming off the back of the DP world, winning their legal case in London. It sort of weakened the other side's position. And, you know, they went in there and, in there and the way Jimmy described it, you know, Roy, sometimes you got too itty over water and you just got to go for it. And, you know, that's what they did. And, you know, I think ultimately, when I try to remove myself from the situation and I look at the bigger picture and I look at 10 years down the line. I think ultimately this is going to be good for the game

of professional golf. I think it secures the, it unifies it, and it secures its financial future. So there's mixed emotions in there as well. As is going to be, I don't understand all the intricacies of what's going on. It's a very, what's the word, you know, there's a lot of ambiguity, there's a lot of things still to be sort of thrashed out, but at least it means that the litigation goes away, which has been a massive burden for everyone that's involved with the tour and that's playing the tour.

And we can start to work toward some sort of way of unifying the game at the elite level. Adam? Adam, I'm on the left. Roy has over the last day with the different meetings and the conversations you've had with players. Is European exchange at all? Have you started to see where this is all going? And are you excited about this?

Are you optimistic about this? And has you projected forward? Yeah, so I mean, I think the one thing that I think was really misconstrued last yesterday was all the headlines where PJ Tour emerges with live, and live has got nothing to do with this, right? I mean, it's the PJ Tour, DP World Tour, and the public investment fund are basically partnering

to create a new company. This has gotten, I think that's where I was a little frustrated because all I've wanted to do, You know, this has gotten, you know, I think that's where I was a little frustrated because all I've wanted to do and all I've wanted, you know, in the past year from basically this tournament is to protect the future of the PGA tour and protect the aspirational nature of what the PGA tour stands for. And I hope that this does that, but, you know but I think with the headlines being merges with live, like that's not the, I mean, if you look at the structure of hard structure,

down this new company sits above everything, J is the CEO of that. So technically, anyone that is involved with live, now I would answer to J. So the PJ Tour have control of everything. And the one thing as well is whether you like it or not, the PIF, we're going to keep spending money in golf. At least the PJ Tour and like controls, how that money is spent. So I'd, if you're thinking about, you know, one of the biggest sovereign wealth funds in the world, would you rather have them as a partner or an enemy?

At the end of the day, money talks, and you'd rather have them as a partner. Other one on the right here? Rory Simondingley from CBC News. We heard there was a lot of anger in the clubhouse yesterday in the meeting with the commissioner. Do you still have confidence in Jay Montana's commissioner, the PGA? I'm going to go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee.

I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. I will go to the committee. today, I think the future of the PGA tour looks brighter as a whole, as an entity.

What that looks like for individual players in terms of keeping a tour card and bring in players back into the fold and then that sacrifices other people. That's where the anger comes from, right? And I understand that. There still has to be consequences to actions. The people that left the PGA tour are rapidly harmed this tour, started litigation against it. We can't just welcome them back in. That's not going to happen. I think that was the one thing that Jay was trying to get across yesterday. We're not just going to bring these guys back in and pretend nothing's happened. That is not going to happen. I do have confidence in them. I think you ask the people around him that deal with him in a business sense, whether it's the directors

of the board of the PGA tour or the title sponsors that he deals with. I mean, he seems to be a very impressive individual when it comes to business. Second question. I know you and many other golfers were offered substantial amounts of money to join live. I was never offered any money.

Oh, my apologies. Should the golfers who maybe state loyal and turned down live should they be made whole financially? I mean, the simple answer is yes. The complex answer is how does that happen? Right? And that's all gray area up in the air at the minute. But yeah, it's hard for me to not sit up here and feel somewhat like a sacrificial lamb and feeling like I've put

myself out there and this is what happens. Again, removing myself from the situation, I see how this is better for the game of golf. There's no denying that. But for me as an individual, yeah, I, there's just gonna have to be conversations that are had. Thank you. Jason and then John on the left. Roy, you mentioned that this has really nothing to do

with live golf, but do you foresee you and other PJ tour players having to play some sort of team events moving forward into the fall or a series of them? So I think Yasser is very, so the PJ tour already doing their own sort of team thing, right? We're going to do TGL, which is, you know, it's not on a golf course, but it's a team type of event, and it's an entertainment product.

And, you know, that stuff was already starting to happen, but it was very delimit, right? So you had like proper competitive golf like we're playing this week, and you have more entertainment type of golf that you get more into the team atmosphere and you bring tech into it and it's a it's a more Mead for TV type of deal I Would say an Element of team golf might still stay it certainly

And my opinion and my hope is it won't I won't be under the live umbrella. It's something that the PJ tour will PGA tour will operate, and it will hopefully look very different to what Liv has been. John. Hey, Rory, John should be held from the Canadian press. A lot of fans are upset at this news. The word of words between the PGA tour and Liv got very heated and fans got very involved. What do you say to fans who are disappointed in this deal? But it's not live. I think that's the thing. I still hit live. Like I hit live. Like I hope it goes away. And I would fully expect that it does.

And I think that's where the distinction here is. This is the PJ Tour, the DP World Tour, and the PIF. Very different from live. All I've tried to do is protect what the PGA tour is and what the PGA tour stands for. And I think it will continue to do that. So look, going forward, I hope that there may be a team element, and you're going to see maybe me, maybe whoever

else play in some sort of team golf. But I don't think it'll look anything like Liv has looked, and I think that's a good thing. Just as a follow-up, I mean, you do see why fans are upset, though. I see what you're saying that it's not Liv, it's the PIF, but nonetheless, you know, during this back and forth over the past year, at one point, Jay Monahan said, do you like this would never happen out of respect for the victims of 9-11.

Obviously, you're not responsible for what Mr. Monahan says, but you can see why this has stirred up a lot of emotions and fans, right? Of course, I said it to Jay yesterday, you've galvanized everyone against something, and that thing that you galvanized everyone against, you've not partnered with. So of course, I understand, it is hypocritical, it's science hypocritical.

The one thing I would say is, again, whether you like it or not, the PIF and the SIDEs want to spend money in the game of golf, they want to do this and they weren't going to stop so How can we you know the thing for me and this is this one thing that I've always thought about how can we get that money into the game But use it the right way and I think that's what this ultimately will do hopefully. I mean that's that's my hope Yeah, I'm one in the front right over here. So we're here That's my hope. One in the front, right over here. So we're here. You've said a couple of times now, maybe two or three times, if I remove myself from it and trying

to forecast a bit further down the line, but is that a hint that there are bits of you that are still uncomfortable with your football watcher. You've seen the reaction to Newcastle United's take over over the last year, and the Saudi moves and soccer, and other sports. Yeah. Is there a bit of you that's still uncomfortable

with just how cozy Saudi Arabian money, Saudi Arabia, and their money is now in golf? Like a lot of people would see that it controls a hell of a lot of golf. I've come to terms with it. I see what happened in other sports. I see what's happened in other businesses. And honestly, I've just resigned myself to the fact

that this is what's going to happen. Like, this is very hard to keep up with people that have more money than anyone else. And again, if they want to put that money into the game of golf, then why don't we partner with them and make sure that it's done in the right way? And that's sort of where my head's at. We have time for a couple more. We have one on the right here and then we'll go to the back.

Thanks, Roy. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts or feelings or insight as to what this does to the Ryder Cup and the DP World Tour. And I asked that just how it sounds, but also as you are aware, the European Tour is headed by a Canadian. I'm very aware of that, very proud Canadian.

I don't think it changes. You know, the ruling in that arbitration court was upheld that the European tour can uphold the rules and regulations on sanctioned people for leaving the tour, for harming the tour. And again, I think it's a midpoint because all those guys have resigned their membership. You don't remember the European tour. You can't play the writer cup.

So, to me, it's a mood point. Can't time for one more on the left. We just just go back to one more about yesterday. The player's meeting, I think, a lot of the reports sort of described some frustrations and just your sense of what was said and sort of the mood of that meeting in any sort of way that it that meeting in any sort of, you know, way that it stood out to you.

Yeah, look, it was heated. It was, um, people were surprised. People felt like they were, um, in the dark about all this. Uh, you know, look, most of the gripes come from, from the guys that are, you know, trying to hold onto their cards. And they feel like things have already been taken away from them this year with the designated events and smaller fields and no cuts and we had at FedEx cup points for the larger events with the stronger fields.

So they were already feeling somewhat vulnerable. And then whenever this news is brought about, you know, they, you know, there's only gonna, there's only gonna be one reaction to that. And I understand that. And honestly, it's hard for me to relate to those guys because I've never been in that position. I try to empathize with it.

But I, it's hard for me to, you know, it's hard for me to relate to them fully, but I certainly empathize withize with their point of view. All right, Bory, thank you very much for your time and best of luck this week. Thank you. Okay, next up, we're going to get into the legal world. This is a very scary territory for all of us as we are all idiots when it comes to all of these things, but it kind of seems like it's going to be the topic of the day for the

next number of days. So while we don't have a lot of details right now about what this new framework looks like and what this new business structure might look like and all of those things, we want to do at least ask some very basic questions about where things stand. So let's do that now with new contributors, never been on the pod, John Nucci. And so we will hear from John now. We're going to start talking law. We're going to start talking X's and O's of the legal system, which you know how that's going to go for me. It wouldn't go well. So we've brought in an

expert. John Nucci is a sports law attorney. He's also the chief golf law correspondent. I love that title at Conduct, Conduct detrimental. John, how are you? What's what's going on? I'm doing very well. Thank you for having me appreciate it Absolutely. So you know, you kind of know my my level of expertise in what's going on here I'm trying my best to keep my head above water here, but let me let me ask you let me cop out a little bit Where should we start? Where do we start in your mind? What what is the headline here? I mean the headline here? I mean, the headline is the, this antitrust litigation, I don't think is dead. It's dead in the sense that these two parties are no

longer suing each other, but I think at least on the antitrust side, we might be kicking the can down the road a little bit here. So, so, so spell out what, what that means for everybody, because again, like if, if I five-year-old trying to understand this, what I've seen from afar is these two entities, the PJ Tour and Liv, going at each other, Liv saying this is an anti-competitive landscape, the PJ Tour is a monopoly. And now those two, you know, I know it's not a merger between PJ Tour and Liv, but a partnership between PJ Tour and the PIF. How is that not creating what I would call a super mega-mando monopoly because that seems to be their very outward-stated goal?

Yeah, so it's just it's funny because the original lawsuit was, you know, 11 players suing the PGA Tour for anti-competitive behavior and antitrust violations. It turned into the PGA tour, you know, loathing some counterclaims. And then it ended up being basically a live versus PGA tour antitrust claim. Now, over the last year, there's been so much rhetoric that both parties have thrown back and forth, but specifically with a live, calling the PGA tour a entrenched monopolist and saying that they are just the only provider

of professional elite golf and that nobody has any other option without competitors in the field. And then all of a sudden, I guess the rationale is to defeat that monopoly, you just become even a 3, 4, X bigger monopoly. So I don't know that that part of it makes a ton of sense, and I think that's why we're probably this isn't necessarily over with. I think there's a little bit more to parse through here.

There's a lot of people talking in past tense, but I think we got a lot out in front of us still. How much is the distinction between the PIF and live? How much does that matter in this? Because the original lawsuit was the PJ tour versus live. This will now be a partnership between the PIF and live, how much does that matter in this? Because the original lawsuit was the PGA Tour versus live. This will now be a partnership between the PIF and the PGA Tour. I mean, does that make a difference?

How much of that is like, you know, it seems like there was discovery around how much of live was propped up by the PIF. That seems like it'll be relevant, but explain that to me a little bit. Yeah, so I think at least part of the reason, part of, you know, what prompted this is that the public investment fund was on the verge of either having to be subject to discovery in this case, which means they were either going to have to turn over all of their officials,

communications, text messages, emails related to their recruitment of PGA-tor members, maybe speaking with sponsors and vendors, are the flip side of that is they were gonna have a ninth circuit or maybe even a Supreme Court precedent against them, which that has implications beyond just like the lit, you know, their golf prospects in the United States. That has implications into their other investments. On the flip side, the PGA tour, I think they realized

pretty quickly that maybe they don't have the pockets to do a five-year litigation. They don't have the pockets to increase price pools 34% every year to compete. So I think there were just, it was kind of a mutual agreement to end the litigation, and it was mutually beneficial for both parties. agreement to end the litigation, and it was mutually beneficial for both parties. I don't, to your original point, I don't think the PIF versus live distinction matters too much, except in the sense that I'm not positive that live as a concept or as an entity is going to survive too long. Yeah, I think that was kind of the main takeaway from yesterday, as it pertains to live, is kind of, hey, we're going to put all these things into a bucket.

We're going to look at the P&L of all of these different things, and we're going to see what everybody's bringing to the table, and then we're going to move forward. And I think maybe a lot more Ls than P's on the live front. But talk to me also, I guess, speaking of that bucket, and the PJ tour, putting all of their commercial interests into this new company, the DP World Tour, putting all of their interests into this new company. I don't know how far-ranging your oversight on this kind of stuff is, but I have to imagine things are much more stringent overseas as far as anti-monopoly practices and those

types of things. It just seems like the DP world tours involvement in this is not going to help things either. No, because that adds a whole other facet to this where they don't have to just deal with the department of justice and the antitrust investigation. They have to also deal with EU regulations. I mean, I won't pretend to be an expert in EU monopoly law

antitrust law, but I would imagine, based on, I know that their privacy laws and a lot of their other laws are much more much more strict than than the US here. So I don't think it's a guaranteed I just I don't I don't see it as a rubber stamp like a lot of these other mergers are Because it is going to be a factual you know consideration for the Department of Justice so all of those quotes that live has been tossing about being a monopoly are going to be considered by the Department of Justice. So it's not like you can just unring that belt. So I know we're going to focus a lot more on where we're headed and what's going to happen.

But I think just like pausing a second to focus on where we got to in the lawsuits and what really drove this decision yesterday. From your perspective, where did those suits stand? I hate to boil it down to who was winning, who was losing. How were things going and who stood to gain from calling things off? That is the interesting part to me is because from for all intents and purposes I thought the PGA tour was in a very strong position as far as the litigation went. They obviously the temporary restraining order was denied from the players. They had Piff and El Remain added as defendants to the lawsuit. Not to mention Piff and El Remain already had a decision that said that

they were subject, you know, they weren't immune from discovery as they argued. So all of those things, I mean, it was trending towards the public investment fund, having to kind of open up all of their books, so to speak, and have those official sit-for-deposition. So I'm a little surprised, I think, I think between the two parties, PIF probably had a lot more motivation to settle because they don't want to have to sit for depositions and answer questions on their oath and they don't want to turn over all of their communications and emails. In terms of where the lawsuit was, it's a little surprising because I thought the PGA

tour was in a good position, maybe not the best position to drag it out for five years, but at least in the short term, they were in a good spot. And then as far as the Department of Justice investigation, so again, just for people who might not poison themselves with this stuff for 60 hours a week, what can you say about kind of where that stood, what were they investigating, what are they investigating, where does that stand, and then how did things change,

and what is the DOJ do next in your mind? Yeah, so the DOJ is investigating essentially the anti-competitive practices or what they called it, you know, allegedly anti-competitive practices. I should use my words carefully. It's following me my whole profession. The alleged anti-competitive practices of the PGA Torre, a lot of it was surrounding their competing event policy and the actions that the PGA Tour. A lot of it was surrounding their competing event policy, and the actions that the PGA Tour may have taken to try to exclude live from the marketplace. So they were in interviewing, I know, certain live officials, they were interviewing USGA officials some sort of information about maybe what communications, Jay Monahan or PGTor officials had

about excluding golfers from majors and things like that. So this litigation or this settlement, I'm not sure just, you know, it doesn't go away and it's entirety because all of the information that they gathered from that investigation is now going to perhaps go into their review of any proposed merger. So it's not just gone, you know, it's it's a it's a hit say it again, but you can't just unring the bell. I mean they they have done all this investigation and it's it's not gonna go away overnight. Okay, so building off of that so we had the initial

DOJ investigation. I have to imagine, you know, based on, we're certainly not experts in this, but one thing we wanted to flag in our podcast yesterday that we did was like, hey, this is not really a done deal. Like there's still this DOJ stuff going on that seems like it would have to be, you know, approved in some way. And a lot of the, you know, monopoly reporters or people like that that we've seen just kind of floating around on Twitter are very much saying like,

what are you guys talking about? Why are you talking about this in the past tense? This is not a sure thing. What's kind of your read on it from where you sit? Yeah, so first of all, I love the phrase monopoly reporter. It's excellent, but I don't think it's necessarily a slam dunk and I don't think there's no chance either.

I think just like everything else, it probably falls somewhere in the middle. There have been some major gigantic mergers that have been allowed to go through. However, this administration specifically has shown a little bit of a willingness to crack down on some of these things. I think they stopped a Delta-Spirit Airlines deal. They've stopped a handful of other deals. I think it, unfortunately, it depends on the administration. I think this one has been a little bit more willing to crack down on any trust violations.

I think they're going to take a little bit more of an extra look at it, especially considering that there was already a pending investigation happening. Yeah, and I think it's, you know, again, this is all kind of half-assed, like me reading tweets, obviously, I'm very aware of that, but it seems like a lot of it too is focusing on this merger language, and I think there's like a failing business exception and things like that. I don't know if you have any light to shed on any of that stuff. business exception and things like that. I don't know if you have any light to shed on maybe that stuff. You know, it'll be very interesting to see what type of corporate structuring magic that

they try to pull out of the hat here because they've said that the PGA tour ink is still going to, you know, the nonprofit arm is still going to be there and they're going to have oversight of events and, you know, maintain their non-profit status but then there's going to have a whole four-profit entity. So I will be very interested to see how they structure that since that is my expertise. I'm not a litigator, I've just been following this but the corporate governance and the corporate structure, I will be very interested to see how they how they try to structure that and put it together in a way that they try to maintain their tax exempt status and try to not run a foul of antitrust laws. I mean

the announcement was very light on details and I think part of the reason is because that was probably set to be leaked so they had to just get out in front of it. So I think we need to wait to see, even Matt McNeely's front of it. So I think we need to wait to see, even Matt McNeely's post today too, was talking about how we don't know everything. So I think once we see what the corporate structure is that they're proposing and how they plan to get around, you know, Dodge, does antitrust bullets and the tax exempt bullets and things, I mean, we'll see how they go about that. It'll be very interesting for sure. So what happens, you know, to the best of your knowledge speculative or otherwise, what

happens if we get to a point where the DOJ, you know, doesn't approve this and squashes this and, you know, do we go back to the starting line? Like, what the hell happens then? I mean, yeah, that's the $3 billion question because like, if they don't, I, what I do know is it will be an absolute mess if they don't because the public investment fund is going to enter the, you know, the Gulf world one way or another. They think they've made that clear. I don't think they ever really cared about live so much as they cared about getting into Gulf.

And I think this was, I don't know that they necessarily planned this type of, you know, insurgents and merger all along, but if the, if the, if the DOJ does block the deal, I don't think Piff just goes away. I don't think live goes away. I think I, I don't know if we're starting from square one, but I think it's going to be a little bit of a mess to parse through. But yeah, that remains to be seen. Oh, all right. Well, John will let you get to the golf league.

I know you got a golf league tonight. So best, best of luck for that. Try to find some good air to breathe up there in New York. And thanks for, thanks for hopping on, man. We'll, we'll be in touch as things develop and where can people follow you? Yeah, you can check me out on Twitter. I'm at J, J new q 23. You can also check us out at Conduct

detrimental and I am writing and podcasting pretty constantly about the live pga tour stuff. So. All right. Well, John, thanks for hopping on, man. We are we're going to move on with the show. Thank you to John for hopping on.

Hopefully we can check back in with him as more details come to light and more things. You know, once there are more things to actually analyze about this whole conversation, maybe we can do some analysis. But moving on. So try our best today to try to get some players on the podcast, to try to get some official kind of comments, all of those things. It's obviously an incredibly complex issue, as you can probably tell from the last couple of days of podcasting, not really an issue that anyone, especially on the player side is dying to weigh in on.

So what we did wanna do just to make sure people kind of understand the conversation and understand the context and what's going on is there was a lot of public commentary made today, whether that was J Jay Monahan going on golf today, whether that was Bryson going on CNN yesterday, whether that was the players that came into the media center. We wanted to try to round up at least kind of the pertinent parts

of those conversations to roll into the podcast tonight. So we're gonna hear a couple clips. Obviously these are not original interviews. These are, you know, appearances that they have made elsewhere, which we will shout out. But so the first person we're going to hear from is Jay Monhan, who went on golf today on the golf channel. He was asked about a number of things. And a lot of that we're going to get to kind of as the week goes on and as the weeks and months goes on, I'm sure. But the big one that we had referenced a bunch of times in the conversation with Randy and I and kind of took over social media today was his answer about the 9-11 families

editorializing from afar, but he seemed pretty, pretty struck by the question. He seemed a little kind of jumbled the question. He almost looked a little unprepared for the question. And here is that question being asked by George Savaricus and Jay's answer. Jay, the 9-11 families United made a strong statement yesterday. They said you co-opted the 9-11 community and taking a moral stance against live. How would you respond to that group? Well, I read Terry's comments. I, you know I obviously acknowledge her loss and completely understand her position. And to the question that you were just asking, I wish I think about the fact that I allowed confidentiality to prevail here. And in allowing confidentiality to prevail, I did not communicate to very important constituents, including the families of 9-11.

And I regret that. I really do. And I regret that. I really do. But as we sit here today, I think it's important to reiterate that I feel like the move that we've made and how we move forward is in the best interests of our sport. We've eliminated those fractures. But for any difficulties, I've caused in that front. Again, I have to own that as well. And that comes back to communication.

OK, next up is going to be Bryson DeChambo, who hopped on CNN primetime last night with Caitlin Collins. This is a ranging interview. And we just wanted to play it in full just because we really haven't heard much from the other live guys. So credit to Bryson for going on CNN and answering a couple questions and interesting answers. Okay, the next round of me on I appreciate it. And I think there's a lot more behind closed doors that it's been going on. What I can tell you is that H.E. Yasser has always been

a staunch supporter of golf globally. And wanting to grow the game. That's been his vision from the start. When we first started talking a few years ago and as it's come to fruition now, I think that this is the best thing that could ever happen for the game of golf. And I'm extremely proud to be a part of that because of the fact that the fans are gonna get what they want. The players are gonna experience something a little different and a little new on the PGA Tour side. But I truly believe in the end, the Game of Golf wins in the scenario.

What about for those players, though, who stuck with the PGA Tour, who didn't accept a lot of money that was coming their way from the live tour because of comments from people like Monahan and the criticism you face. Do you see Pat Monahan or as Jay Monahan I should know as a hypocrite in this situation? Well look I really feel bad for the information that was delivered to the players and the PGA tour, the ones that stuck with them. You know we did take a risk. The players that did go over, we did take a risk and there players that did go over, we did take a risk, and there was a reason

for taking that risk relative to the, you know, the capital had to be paid out for that to occur. But I do feel bad for the PGA tour players, because they were told one thing and something else happened. And on our side, we were told one thing, and it's come to fruition fruition and look in the end for me I want the players the fans and the game of golf to win and you know it does stink a little bit from my perspective that the PJ tour players are not necessarily winning I hope that they can find a way to make sure that they are valued in the same way that we are over at live and I think that'll happen it's just going to take some time with the players pushing back a little bit and trying to figure out what makes them, what gives them the best opportunity to be successful on their own end. And eventually we all come back together now and play as one group. I think that's the best thing watching us play weekend, week out, the best players

against each other. When you say bad information, what do you mean? Well, bad information, I mean, look, there's a lot of information that can be delivered on both sides. Now, whether it's right or wrong is always subject to what people believe. And behind closed doors, there was a lot going on that anyone could really take in. And a lot of players just weren't

willing to take the risk. Whereas players like myself had some decent information and was willing to take that risk because not only did you know it would change our lives But it would potentially change the landscape of the game of golf of which we all believed and the guys that went to live for a long time Phil being the same in the same position We all believed that there was a better path to potentially grow the game and and give people a new viewpoint and fresh perspective on the game of golf And I think that's what you're seeing here now is that it's finally coming to a place

where the PG-2 realized it, live realized it, we all realized that we're better together and not apart. Well, of course, you know one thing that's not behind closed doors, which we do know is that the live tour is backed by the Saudi public investment fund, which of course is run by and backed itself by the Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman. Because of this, that is why it has earned so much criticism, including from the families of 9-11 victims. And the group put out a statement today saying, quote, the PGA in Monahan referring to

the commissioner, appeared to have become just more paid Saudi shills, taking billions of dollars to cleanse the Saudi reputation. How do you respond to that? Well, I think we'll never be able to repay the family's back for what exactly happened just over 20 years ago. And what happened is definitely horrible. And I think as time has gone on, 20 years has passed and we're in a place now where it's time to start trying to work together to make things better together as a whole. I have deep sympathy. I don't know exactly what they're feeling.

I can't ever know what they feel, but I have a huge amount of respect for their position and what they believe. Nor do I ever want anything like that to ever occur again. I think as we move forward from that, we've got to look towards the pathway to peace, especially in forgiveness, especially if we're trying to mend the world and make it a better place. I think this is what they're trying to accomplish, live is trying to accomplish, the PIF is trying to accomplish. We're all trying to accomplish.

It's a better world for everybody and a way to provide great entertainment for everybody around the world. It's not just about 9-11. Does it make you uncomfortable at all? Because it's not just that, They're accused of financing terrorism. They also are accused of killing a Washington Post reporter, Jamal Kashoggi. How do you feel knowing that that is where the money is backed by? Yeah, I mean, look, it's unfortunate what has happened and that's something I cannot

necessarily speak on. I'm a golfer, but what I can say is that what they're trying to do, what they're trying to work on is to be better allies, because we are allies with them. And look, I'm not going to get into politics of it. I'm not specialized in that, but what I can say is they are trying to do good for the world and showcase themselves in a light that hasn't been seen in a while. And nobody's perfect, but we're all trying to improve in life. Finally, we are going to hear from just a couple players that are on site this week at the RBC,

Canadian Open. Like I said, we've reached out to a lot of people, haven't really had any interest in actually coming on the podcast to discuss, but two people that were in the media center credit to Mackenzie Hughes and Corey Connors. I know the Canadian Open means a lot to them, and they were in the media center to answer a lot of questions

about playing in their national Open and playing, you know, in an event that they really love. But of course, we're asked about yesterday's player meeting. Of course, we're asked about, you know, how this new sits with them, how the communication sits with them, all of those things. And so we're going to hear from them now. The first player you're going to hear from is Mackenzie Hughes.

And the second player will be Corey Conner's. Thank you to both of them for going through some media availability today. And thanks to the PGHWord for posting those press conferences as well. So here's Mackenzie Hughes and Corey Conner's. How would you describe how your emotions have evolved from yesterday morning around 10 o'clock to today?

I started out feeling a little frustrated, yesterday morning around 10 o'clock to today. I started out feeling a little frustrated, a little confused, and not betrayed, but just blindsided with the fact that we just, to us, we didn't see this coming in any capacity. Maybe not for another five or six years, but now we're here, and this is the news that we're dealing with.

And yeah, I'd say that now I'm more about collecting information and trying to, I guess, make my own judgment on what the situation is, and if it's gonna be good for the tour in the long run, which ultimately I do think that the way the golf has been in the last year is not good for the game. And I do believe that when the dust does settle and we bring the guys back together eventually, I do think that's what's in the best interest of golf. Right now, obviously, it's going to feel different,

or feel not right, or confusing. And everyone's got a lot of questions. But I do think that with time, this could end up being a great thing. I think people are very quick to jump on it being a really bad thing, but we just, it's too early to say, I guess, one way or the other. Over here on the right. Hey, Mack. This year in golf has been a lot about, there's no cut events, there's team golf on the live side.

How important is a tournament, obviously, like this to you, and a true open championship, and what does that mean for, you know, the kind of golf you grew up with? I was telling my caddy out there today that I've been coming to this tournament from a very young age before I was 10 probably. My first experience I think was Glen Abbey in 2000. And just a lot of great memories from Glen Abbey and from Hamilton and to be competing in my national championship, the RBC Canadian Open. To me, it's still a little bit of a pinch me moment. Even though I'm in year seven, and I've played in a fair number of these already, it's still really cool to me that

I could impact the next Mackenzie Hughes, which hopefully they aim higher than that, but I mean, at least, you know, that's the where the bar has been set maybe, but it is neat, and I relished these moments to be here, you know, buying for this championship, and I would love more than anything else to be the guy to break that throat.

Matt, given the timing of last year, as well as this year relative to LIV, you have some sympathy for that badge on your left sleeve, there, RBC? Yeah, it's not, it doesn't seem fair. It is probably the best way to put it, but we're just really unfortunate timing, I think. But yeah, they've gotten the bad end of that stick the last couple of years. And it's a shame, because it takes away from, I believe,

it's the third oldest national open. So to me, that's what it should be about is the history of this tournament and the great players here. But golf has never been in a place like this before and there's been so many things in the last three, four years that have just disrupted, I guess, the working order of golf. I mean, from COVID into live, it's just been a very unsettled time for golf,

golf ball rollback potentially. It seems like like day after day there's something new. So I think if I'm RBC I kind of accept that this is just the rolling landscape of what we're dealing with. And hopefully like I said tomorrow once we get going the tournament starts and we got a good leader board going that will be the focus of this week. Yeah, just to back to yesterday, one more, the players call with Jay yesterday. Can you sort of describe how it went for you

or sort of the sentiment that came out of it? And the feelings around that call that you had or that you sensed other people had. The PAC meeting or the player meeting? The player meeting. The player meeting. I think I touched on it a little bit earlier, but I just feel as though the first feeling that guys had was just that they were a little bit shocked by the news.

I don't really think many people had this on their radar as a possibility. So that was probably the first emotion. The other thing was just now guys were trying to take it all in. Gather information, ask questions, figure out what the next steps were. So there was a lot of good discussion in there yesterday, and a lot of things on both sides that were said that I think will lead to good decisions going forward.

So yeah, the, I guess that golf has just never been So yeah, I guess that golf has just never been disrupted like this before, and we're dealing with a lot of stuff right now. So I think once we get past the initial phase of this or the initial part of this, I guess that it could be a great thing for golf. We just, we don't know. So that was kind of the, I guess, the majority

of the emotion or the feeling yesterday. I guess not to, is there any sense of like the emotional whip, lash it all, sort of like, you go a year and this is how we look at things. And then all of a sudden, one day happens and it and it's like oh we have to look at it. This other way is that sort of hard to wrap your hat around at all? Yes and no, I mean we've been through a lot. So, while there's some aspects of it that may surprise you, you're also kind of used to having

bombshells dropped every now and then with, you know, live forming and, you know, having their first events and then to where we are now. There's just been, there's been lots of big news over the last year, so I don't think that we're, I mean, we're essentially, I guess, you just know you're in a bit of a chaotic time, so there's lots of stuff happening and we're just trying to deal with it the best we can on the fly.

Hi, Corey, it's Peter Robinson. I'm wondering if I'm sure you were shocked yesterday at this time, but I'm wondering if you had 24 hours to sort of calm down and think about the events of yesterday and if you can give us some perspective. If it has changed, you're generally. Yeah, it was definitely shocking news to, you know, caught off guard a little bit, but you know, to the honest, haven't, you know, digested much of it, you know, this being such

a big week at the RBC Canadian Open, you know, my focus much of it, you know, this being such a big week at the RBC Canadian Open, you know, my focus is really on that. But, you know, what I'll say is, I do have a lot of faith in the leadership of the PGA tour. I know there's a lot of smart people working for us that, you know, will make the right decisions and, you know, we'll make the right decisions and, you know, right away, you know, some players may not necessarily agree with the decision, but I certainly have faith that, you know, it's going to be a positive direction for the PGA tour, and I have a lot of faith in our leadership.

Hey, Corey. This is the second year in a row that some blockbuster news breaks at Canadian Open. Sort of how unfair do you think that is? And is it something that you kind of hope that the tour would keep in mind when they're redoing this any schedule for next season? Yeah, it's, you know, unfortunate timing for the news that we got yesterday. And like you mentioned last year, you know, there was a lot going on in the golf world during this week, so, you know, I definitely, you know,

feel for RBC, I think it's unfortunate timing for this event, the RBC Canadian Open, and unfortunate timing for RBC, which, you know, is such a great partner of me, and a great partner of golf and the PGA tour, you know, having the RBC Canadian open and RBC heritage. So you know, I definitely feel bad for them a little bit, but you know, saying that, I think there's still going to be a lot of focus on the RBC Canadian open this week and it's

going to be an exciting week. Going back to yesterday, do you think the, there's clearly some anger between, with some of your colleagues, maybe even yourself, was it more to do with the deal that they know of it so far or how it was delivered? It's hard to say. I think, you know, a lot of the players didn't really get an opportunity to understand and, you know, just made some judgments prematurely. And certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion. And at first I was a little caught off guard,

but trying to understand the situation, which, again, I really haven't go too deep into it. But I do trust the leadership of the PGA tour. I think people just don't like being surprised by things and with it being a player-led tour, I was off-putting for some guys to receive the news the way that we did, but again, my belief is that we've got some smart people working on our behalf and they're doing, you know, the best thing they can for us as PGA two our members and for the game and golf. All right, we have batted around the order and we're back to the top. Randy, we're bringing you back in.

Oh for one failed blunt coming back to get another look at this picture. I love your love your chances. Second time around. Welcome back. Yeah. Thank you. I do too. I was I saw it big. The first that bat just, you know, didn't get the bump where I needed it to pass the picture. Also bringing in another your partner in crime for what was supposed to be an LPGA podcast. Obviously you guys chop it up on the LPGA once a week. We still are going to talk a little bit of LPGA. Obviously, there was some news this week that kind of a superseded that in the world

of golf this week. Cody, how are you? Greetings. Hello. Good to see you. Gentlemen, how are we doing? Thank you for inviting me onto this here podcast. I'm excited to talk LPGA,

little global political foreign policy stuff and overall 9-11 tanks. So I'm here for whatever you need. Go, let me start with you. Pro-anti 9-11. What's that start there? Very, very anti-thank you. I want that on the record before we get going. No, I did. Sorry, DJ did did with any of your guests. Did you cover the Bryson CNN interview today? We did. We rolled that audio. Okay. I think that makes for itself big. Unless you have anything to add. No, just as our good friend Spencer Hall pointed out, I think Bryson literally apologized think Bryson literally apologized for night like he was complicit in it. It seemed like what a what a wild wild five minutes that was. It's, you know, if I was a professional golfer, I think I'm probably just taking a couple plays off this week, you know, just just cash me out. I'm not, I don't need to play this hand, but, you know, I guess other

people feel differently. So Cody, we've we've been just spewing nonsense about the goings-on of the last couple of days. We don't need to belabor too much of the personal stuff. And obviously you have a complex history with the country of Saudi Arabia, but I would be not doing my job if I didn't ask how you're feeling. What's on your mind over the last couple of days? So, log going on, lot on Pac gentlemen. Guys, no, I'm in the same boat as you guys. I've actually tried to get away earlier in this week, went and hung out with some of my

my patriots. I was at the great American dunes in western Michigan, trying to get a little a camaraderie and fellowship in. It's like-minded people, you know, all that. And then this whole world, the golf world seems to be on fire. How do I feel? I'm really like. If everything that is proposed goes through, I'm happy because I'm, I'm like Jack to see the best players in the world competing more. Like I think that obviously the last year with Liv has created a huge fracture in the golf, professional golf ecosystem on the bend side, and we've only been able to see them at four major championships, and that's what's going to be the way it was going forward. But I'm excited that if this plan actually gets to the finish line that you can actually see

more of the best players in the world competing again because I love Cam Smith. I love Dustin Johnson. I like Brooks's swagger. And like they make me excited to watch professional golf and the more that they're around the better. Now, I'm like, you wanna talk about like the finance side and where, how we got here and what actually is going on

and where is this going to take us. I definitely have some concerns. I've spent time inside of Arabia. I've talked about it on this podcast. I've talked about it on our sister podcast, the trap draw, phenomenal listen, go back and check it out there. But this is such a complex issue But, you know, there's, there's such a complex issue that the golf world, which is so funny that now the golf world is literally getting into like in-depth foreign policy discussions and you can look at it from like every single level and like, it's always gonna be dirty.

It's always gonna be muddy. The thing about the United States and the country of Saudi Arabia from an overview perspective, like they're a tremendous ally for us. They support almost everything that we do in the Middle East. They're phenomenal in trade. They buy a ton of our equipment, majority of it coming from the military side of it, and that's like a different topic altogether. But we also buy a ton of their oil,

we trade oil back and forth. And when we, I'm gonna land here at 9-11 in that overall conversation. There has not been a more long-term and enduring supporter There has not been a more long-term and enduring supporter of our United States and our allies global operations in the Middle East, specifically on the global war on terror than the country of Saudi Arabia. If you can take that and pull that back 22 years to where this whole thing started, I would have never believed that. So I'm 100% torn because it's almost impossible to say, you know, the 9-11, how we got to 9-11,

the individuals who were involved, the people who financed them, and the training that they received to me making that statement, what I just made, it's truly, it's incredible that they were able to turn and support our global operations at the level that they have. And they truly are a great, great partner overseas. I mean, shit, I went overseas and worked for, for their military. I was an advisor for their military.

I was an advisor for one of their intelligence services. I've done a ton with the Saudis. I've been to Riyadh. I've been to southern Saudi Arabia. I've been to both coasts. Like I've been all over the place and I've been able to see things that a lot of other people have not been able to see to include the underbelly of their country, some of their deepest and darkest secrets and things that

are constantly brought up in the national and world spotlight now that they want to move past. So, I'm somewhat torn. I'm very conflicted. I never wanted this part of my life and my background to interfere with my golf, my love for golf. And the enjoyment that I get from watching professional golf, but here we are today. Do you think it's going to interfere? I guess that's kind of the big question, right? Yeah, Cody, I was just looking for like,

they suck or they're cool. Yeah, miss me with all this context. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely going to interfere. We're talking about professional golf that now has not like multiple countries. You have their, you know, independent investment fund funding, a new, you know, for profit section of the PGA tour, whatever it's gonna break out and B, you have, you know, the government still, their government still needs to approve

a vast majority of this. Our government is going to weigh in on all of this. Is it legal? Is it not legal? Are they following the right rules? There's multiple trade and partnership, things that are tied into all of this. Yeah, it's gonna get fucking messy, man.

And it's, this is, I guess, golf now, which is wild. Well, I guess the reason, like we definitely wanted to add this, you know, to the podcast today is just to review, I know we've said this a hundred times, but what's happening here is the PJ Tours taking all of its commercial interests, the DP World Tour is taking all of its commercial interests, the PIF is taking all of its golf commercial interests and golf sawddy, putting them all into a new company, super charging it with seemingly allegedly billions and billions of dollars in cash.

And what I wanna ask you guys, Randy, I'll start with you. What does this mean for the women's game? And let me preface, we don't know. We don't know. All we can do is speculate at this point. But I do think it's an interesting question. I think where my mind initially goes to is I think a live startup type tour for women doesn't seem like it's in the cards, at least anytime soon, right? It would seem like maybe that potential enemy at the gates is not going to materialize. And I think the second place I immediately go is, I know there is some type of vote upcoming between a potential LPGA and LET merger. I do think with the PGA kind of leading the way,

getting out in front of a lot of this, soaking up a lot of oxygen, it feels like to me that it's going to make it easier for the LPGA to accept, potentially, accept a Ramco PIF sponsorship money, whether directly or with a closer, more tight in relationship with the ladies European tour. Cody, I don't know if that's where your mind goes, if you feel similarly, but that's kind of where I start out. Before we go there real quick,

for the people who might not follow this super closely, and might say, a Ramco and the Saudis are already deep into women's golf, can you explain the distinction between what they have sponsored so far and what they have not? I guess. Yeah, so they do have an Aramco team series, which is a series of events that takes place throughout the calendar year in different countries that is obviously sponsored by Aramco. They make up right now. They are part of the ladies' European tour schedule. In addition to that, I think the most famous are probably what most people know is the

Saudi ladies' international, which is a big golf tournament that takes place. What is it, Cody and March, or February? I forget the exact dates. But it has a $5 million purse, one of the largest in all of women's golf outside of a handful of your majors, and draws quite honestly an exceptional field of women to compete year after year in Saudi Arabia.

So that's kind of the starting point. Arabia. So that's kind of the starting point. Come on, I guess I'll throw it to you again. My mind went to those two places right away. I'm curious if you feel similar, similarly, or if this kind of got you thinking immediately on some other track. No, I agree with you, big. I think one thing to highlight as well. So the ladies European tour in addition to having the Aramco women's invetational Saudi Arabia, women's international or whatever it was called, they also have the Aramco team series, which is very much, you could kind of say that it's like live and what they've been doing, but

not really. The formats, it set up a little bit different way. There are three day events, same 54 holes, but it's usually either two or three professionals. I can't remember. And then an amateur who plays on your team and their separate prize pools as part of the Ramco team series, but the Ramco team series

has already had events in the United States. They've have them very globally and that would be kind of a tune to what live it's been doing. Big, I agree with you. I think I said this on here, this year podcast, when we did the beginning of the year preview for the LPGA tour, I said that this was going to be a deciding point for the commissioner and that this question will come up is that if she, you know, when it is broached, will she or will she not accept investment from the Saudi public investment fund and or a ramco or whatever name they want to put on it because a ramco, it's literally, you know, one of the other, but they're all the same.

And I hope people understand that. If not, they maybe need to go do a little bit of history on Saudi and Ramco and the company as a whole. I didn't expect, nor do I think that Molly, what have they expected this to come up in this way, because I'm sure she's openly said that she would absolutely take the call she would accept any meeting from them because at the end of the day she's looking at how she can best

represent the women of the LPGA tour and get them prize money to the, you know, level that they feel and rightfully so deserve. And I think just to underscore kind of the leap that we're making for the listeners here too is I think basically what you guys are suggesting by this money trickling to the ladies game, it would essentially evolve this like new company buying the LPGA or buying the LPGA and the LAT after that merger or or whatever. So like that's the step that would have to happen. Not not even I think, you know, a Ramco is the presenting sponsor of the entire ladies, European tour, not just specific events. They sponsor the,

the entire tour as well, just like, you know, the PGA tour has deals with their proud partners that we listen to every year, grant thortens and everybody else. Well, that's the, you know, the, the L.E.T. They have Ramco.co and we already know that there's, there is co-station events between the LPGA tour and the LET. If they continue and come together and there's a potential merge as Randy discussed earlier and a future vote that's, you know, it's upcoming still, what would that actually look like? But what I think yesterday in these last 48 hours really is that by J going out making these statements, being on MSNBC or

CMBC and sitting with Yasser and basically really what he's done is continue to humanize the public investment fund. He in like, like, he's turned himself, what he's going to end up being a martyr in the situation, but really, he's just gonna take all the heat and basically create a clear runway for Molly to go in and have those conversations and figure it out. And, you know, the women have, you know,

there's Ben Ramco, there's been golf Saudi who has sponsored LPGA players in the past. There's dozens of women and caddies on the LPGA tour who wear golf Saudi or Ramco logos on their golf bags, on their hats on their clothing. And this will just continue to humanize it for the LPGA moving forward. And I would not be surprised if you see a Ramco or just straight up PIF sponsored events on the LPGA tour coming very soon. And I think if I can just piggybacking DJ, perhaps a good segue, hopefully a good segue. If we remove for a second, the discussion of the source of the money, right, a Ramco, PIF, et cetera. And we just take a look at what can a significant investment into the LPGA and LET, like what are areas where they really need more resources?

The answer is in a lot of areas, but besides raising purses, trying to bring purses up, not just in the majors, but we're talking kind of week to week, all the events, getting them up to a standard, you know, that there's a range of purses now, the lowest being, I believe 1.75 million, which for people making a cut really is like a break even proposition if you make the cut and finish, you know, somewhere in the 50s, low 60s. So they do want to raise the purses. Right now, women's professional golf, there is no sophisticated statistical tracking of performance, right? And in my opinion, that is a gigantic hole in the women's game. I think it's a gigantic disservice to the women's game,

and where I would like to see resources aimed is getting shot link to every tournament building out the sophisticated stats packages. We see like on the PJ tour shots gained, right? And that way it one, it allows viewers to have a better understanding of how and why these women are the best in the world, what areas they excel at, or don't excel at, right? From our perspective, as people who love to talk about the women's game, you know, having statistics just gives you such a richer context of what you're seeing, and can open your eyes to perhaps you think something but the statistics say something else, it just, it must happen for women's golf to take

the next big leap. And I'd say the third big area, you know, right now, there are no big media rights in women's golf. A lot of times they are paying to put their product on broadcast television. I think increased resources could not only buy more and perhaps better TV windows, it could help expand streaming options. ESPN plus, you know, four round expand streaming options ESPM plus you know four round

sophisticated streaming options at majors that the types of things again We take for granted and see week to week on the PGA tour. So there is a very big need for resources in the women's game I Think The PGA folks. I'm sure Jay. I'm sure Yasser, I'm sure everybody who has an interest in spinning how great this deal is. Part of that, I don't think it's maybe front page, but certainly second page, we can now invest more, one of the things we can potentially do is build up the women's game. Like, do I believe that they want to do that, that they're going to do that? I don't know. They haven't earned the benefit

of the doubt for me because they've really been pretty inactive and absent over the last however many years, even being a strategic partner of the LPGA, but the potential does exist that could really help the women's game. They stink. They haven't done anything to help the LPGA tour, right? And if you're looking again, I've said this on the LPGA podcast before. This is for Yasser, this is for the PIAF,

this is for Molly, this is for the LPGA tour everything. You know all these people they what they they want to say and continue to say is Everybody will bring up Saudi Arabia's human rights issues the atrocities that they they have committed and everybody likes to throw out the The fact that they are growing their learning their learning, they're maturing as a country. And that is true, but they are still so far behind the times. And I was absolutely shocked when Aramco and PIF initially started sponsoring women's athletics. And I think the LAT, as welcome them with open arms, they obviously did it because it

was a large influx of cash that was given to them that they desperately needed because the tour was almost gonna be extinct. What I want to say is, you know, the saying of, put your money where your mouth is, well, what do you do when people just throw money at it? Okay, we'll do that. We'll throw money at it. But there's no like change or the shit that they say that they're going to do. Never fucking change. It's kind of what do you do to those people? Your money

where your money is a little bit. Exactly. So money is great. Change is even better. You know, let's see legitimate change. And will say this I've experienced this first hand. Saudi Arabia is a hell of a lot better now than it was 10 years ago. Things drastically, drastically changed when MBS took over and I understand that there's been a ton of wrong doing sense and I'm not by no means white-niniding for the guy or anything like that. He's clearly fucked up on a lot of different things. Horrible, horrible things, all right. But it is getting better at the smallest pace possible, though. Like you got it, you got to change.

And if you want to be accepted on the global stage, there's things you absolutely have to do. Unfortunately, that's not gonna be possible because their country still runs Sheree Law and it's literally written into their constitution that just basic rights, human rights that women will not be able to have. It sucks, it stinks, but I do not think,

I think people would live in this fairy tale world. And you'd see people stand up just like the multiple players on the US women soccer team did when they heard that FIFA was going to accept a Ramco money as a presenting sponsor. And you know, they bound together and and formed this coalition and said, you know, absolutely not. If that's the case from FIFA, we will not be playing in the FIFA Cup. And I that's just not going to happen in the women's professional game. They are they're anxiously and eagerly looking for the cash. And I think that's okay as long as you understand who the source of that is and you realize what actually it's like to be a woman in that country.

And reach out and talk to people who are women in Saudi Arabia, who have visited Saudi Arabia, who travel there and figure out what it really, really is before you get that and just put it in whatever checking account that you have. Man, a lot of laughs around here today, Randall. What I will say is that just like yesterday in news was breaking everything, we do have a statement here. I don't know.

Have you guys read Molly's statement? Please do. Okay. I have, but that doesn't do anybody much. So why don't we just read it for everybody? I don't know if you read it earlier in the podcast. Oh, no, no, sorry. No, please, please go ahead. Ah, perfect. This is from of course, LPGA commissioner, Mai, Marcos, and as we have consistently said, a fractured ecosystem is not good for the game. And we look forward to learning what today's announcement means for the growth and impact of global golf.

We remain focused on growing the LPGA, continuing to work with the top partners in the world to provide the best opportunities for our membership and to make sure that everything we do continues to allow us to inspire, elevate, and advance opportunities for girls and women on and off the course. I read that very much as, okay, we're going to go. We're going to go ask Steve. Pauline. Thank you.

Thank you, Jay. I see you, Yasser. Yeah. Let me get on that calendar. Because I, again, and this is my me editorializing, I think what I would point to is this supposed strategic alliance between the PGA and LPGA over the last several years. What tangible benefits can you point to that that has resulted in? It has not necessarily led to a big influx of cash. It has not led to the PGA

supporting the LPGA publicly. There's nothing really in my mind that the PGA can point to and be proud of from that strategic alliance. And I think there is a, C. Cody, this is where I go back and forth. And I think it's a question that everybody should be posing to J is, it feels like we're under the assumption that the Piff, Saudi, or Ramco money is the only money out there. And that's what I'm just, somebody's gonna have to convince me on that.

I totally agree. I think that's extremely well said. And it's like, all right, if we just wanna go down the decision tree here or just kinda like game this out, how this works, right? Because the talking point that I've heard throughout kind of like the world of golf is like, man, this money is gonna allow us to do like so many great things,

right? And if you take that at face value, maybe that's totally right, right? But what I kind of hear that as is like, this money is going to allow us to make our members so fucking rich, right? Because it's like, it wasn't like you didn't have money before. It's just, it's not in your mandate to like, to spend that money on other ventures like this, right?

Your mandate is, and maybe it's a new mandate and it's a different company and all of those things is like in play now. But like your mandate is to just funnel as much money to your members as you possibly can. So without like an investment in the LPGA, which again, might very well be on the table with this new company. Maybe that's like if all of this gets signed by the PGA Tour Policy Board and it gets pushed through by the DOJ and it all comes to fruition in the way that it was presented yesterday. Then yeah, maybe that's one of their, like one of their objectives is buy up women's golf as well

and just spread this money around and everybody lives happily ever after. Again, Randy, like we said earlier in the pod, call her me just a little cynical on that. You know, I don't know that I've really taken Jay or the Piff at their word right now and sorry, but that's just gonna have to be where I'm at for a while, I think.

And so, in a way, I'm almost like, I don't know, I gotta think through this a lot more, but it's like, I kinda almost think the women's game was in a really interesting place when the money was like very irrational, right? And when the money was irrational, it was kinda like how much influence can we buy? We don't care how much it costs. Now that like we're kind of having people speak out of both sides of their mouth, right? Where it's like on one hand, we've got all this money funneling into this

new company. And it's totally not sports washing. It's absolutely like there for a return on investment. And this is going to be like very rational money. And like that, that's when of becomes like, well, sweet man, like, do I really trust that you're going to just like throw this all around the golf world and enrich a bunch of women's golf purses and, you know, invest in all of these different infrastructures. Like, I don't. I don't. And no, this this side of it in the women's professional game, this 100% is sports-washing. Like this is this is this is money that they're like completely are okay with just being a loss. Because this is exactly what they've been doing with the LET.

It's what they will end up doing with the LPJ tour. These are known losses for them to help totally to say, look at all we're doing for women around the globe. And that's exactly what this is. On the men's side, you're right. That's why I mean, but I guess if you got to it, that's why I live, it's never been a viable business operation.

And that's why they're pivoting now to go do this new joint venture for profit because it actually will provide them a massive return on that scale. Like business wise, that makes more sense. I would talk about over here. I would, if I can interject though real quick, I'm a bit dubious of that claim. I think that the investment in the men's company is for sure for profit and a wonderful opportunity

because I think if that were the case, why aren't there a ton of companies lining up to get in on the action, right? That's what, again, sends my spidey senses up is hey if this is such a golden goose guess what there are a hundred a thousand companies on Wall Street across America that are looking for a great return. Are're looking at it from the PIS point of view or from the PGA tours point of view. I am looking at it from,

I guess an investment point of view where I was taking it as you guys saying, hey, we're gonna invest all this money with the expectation we're going to make a sizable return on set investment. Well, I would say probably outside of Andy Gardner and what they tried to do is that I don't think anybody thought that this would be possible that the PGA tour would leave their

nonprofit entity and say, yeah, we're okay starting up a separate for profit entity and be able to do this. I think the reason why this is happening right now and why the money, I mean, it's, I don't know if you guys have ever gotten into a fist fight before, but, you know, it's been a while. The PJ tour and the live were in a fist fight and, and their sick at throwing punches at it and all of a sudden, the, the bigger, stronger and meaner guy put his fist down one day and said, Hey, buddy, like, you want to go get ice cream instead? Cool. Let's go. And now their best friends writing off into the, into the distance on their huffies.

That's what happened. They had to stop the bleeding. They had to stop the lawsuits. That's why it was. And you're telling me that the enemy is like, he's not only gonna say, okay, we're done here, but actually, y'all, we're in this together.

Yeah, it's a very sweet sounding thing now, but we'll see how it plays out. One thing I do wanna just clarify, because I think I've kind of been a little mushy brained about this. I think with the PIF rolling all of its golf interests into this new company like that would include what they're doing in women's golf. So I should say that's already under that umbrella and doesn't necessarily need to be like a brand new investment. So just sorry sorry, I was a true, a true instead of just a men's monopoly. Now we're joining in and saying a man's and women's major, major monopoly.

That's the dream, Cody. That's, that's the hope. That's what we can all aspire power. So guys, should we leave the conversation here? There's, we could talk about this for another four hours. Yeah. I think if, if I may, can I, well, I want to end on I think I think the the women

gladly taking Saudi money might be the most prudent thing for them to do. I just think it's a shame how still women's sports, by and large, are treated in this country. I do staunchly believe, and I think my mind 100% got made up on this fact after the latest NCAA women's college basketball tournament, in which I watched much more NCAA women's basketball than I did men's basketball. I truly believe if anybody, somebody, made a real investment into the product of women's golf, I think that investment would pay off for them over time.

And I know that a lot of companies are spending. I think Cody, it feels like it's a lot of diversity and inclusion, budgets, and not truly business investments with an eye towards, hey, we believe we see a vision, we can build this into a profitable thing. And I think that's a shame because you look at women's soccer, you look at women's tennis, you look at NCA women's basketball. If a broadcast partner, a sponsor put on a good product. I believe people will watch. Yeah, 100%.

Well, Randy, speaking of a good product, we've had this in the can for a couple of days now, but we were able, Sally and I were able to chat with Rose Zhang after her win at the Mizzouho tournament at Liberty National. Obviously a pretty historic win for Rose in her first her first star. Anything you guys want to say about that before we roll that interview? I just want a little quote here. I'm going to throw in again. Obviously Rose is unbelievable.

She's an unbelievable player, unbelievable person, and what she's done is pretty amazing. If I can do something along those lines, I think I'm going to do pretty well. Love it, Abert. But honestly, it feels like it was a month ago. I'm so excited for Rose. I mean, it's phenomenal. She won in her pro debut. Great comments from her being like, I was just, you know, happy.

I was trying to make the cut. I did not expect this to happen, which we all know like Rose is a fighter, man. She's a true competitor, but I did not expect her to win straight out of the gate. Biggie, I'm so excited for the rest of the year on the LPGA tour because we've been standing for a while. Like Rose is coming, but man, she's already here. Yeah, I know, hand up.

I was telling people, I think we need to temper our expectations. I think she has a super high floor. I don't think she's going to win right away. And she just went and just proved me all kinds of wrong. It, I am so happy for her DJ you and I got to meet her, spend time with her February of 2022 when we did the documentary on Stanford women's golf and she is just absolutely the type of person who you enjoy being around you enjoy learning their perspective and you can't help but rooting for them. So so so happy for her. And I'm also happy for women's golf because anytime somebody like this comes along, it's great for the game. Code man, you and I will have to get a lot more into it at a later time, but yeah, I mean,

just like the PGA tour to take like the best thing to happen in years and years and years on women's golf, and they gave them one freaking day, you know, or they dropped this news on them. It just, I do feel badly about that. Well, guys, let's roll this interview with Rose. Randy, thanks for all the thoughts, the banter today. Cody, great to talk to you as always. And we will, we'll see you guys next time. Cheers. Thanks, Steve.

All right. Taking a quick break, taking the controls away from Randy here, we're going to welcome in somebody to the podcast, who's probably been on the podcast more than Randy over the last couple of months. That is, of course, Rose Zhang. She doesn't stop winning, so we keep calling her and taking up more of her time. Rose, how are you? Where are you?

What's going on? I'm currently in New York City at the Excel office in Mr. Morksteinberg's office, and it's just been incredible. You know, last 24 hours have been absolutely insane. I could not have imagined this week to turn out in the way that it has, but now I'm here enjoying the moment. I was on top of the rock, just taking some pictures

and had a New York bagel and enjoying every moment. Talk to me a little bit more about like what the last, I don't know, 18 hours have been like for you kind of since the last putt dropped. I mean, you've won a lot, obviously, and you're in your young career, but I imagine this one had to be a little different.

I certainly has been. Well, after that little putt drops, I was just bombarded with people. Bombarded with kids, my family friends, my dad and we all just had a bunch of media just on me. Took a lot of photos, had an awards ceremony, did media until around 10 p.m. and I just had to get back to the hotel, got back to the hotel, face time friends, took a quick breather, and then I slept at around 230. So it definitely screwed up my sleep schedule a little bit.

But this morning, I had a couple interviews I was on the today show later on. I'm going to be on the ESPN Sports Center. So it's just been hectic. And, you know, starting out the week, it's already been chaotic with a bunch of media, me announcing me as a professional. So, you know, how fitting it is to call this week a chaotic week from start to end. So there's a lot of expectations on this first professional start. I don't know what you thought a good week would have been, but all right, Saturday night, you have a two shot lead going into your first professional event. You've played in professional events before, but this is your first time playing as a professional.

What is, honestly, what is that Saturday night like? What's going on internally? Have you exceeded your expectations to this point and now have your goals for the week changed? Are you more nervous going into Sunday? Take us to that situation. For sure. You know, starting the first two days, I knew days, I knew that I was for sure going to make the cut after I finished nine on the second day. However, I still had to stay in the moment.

Golf is very unexpected. You never know when you're going to triple, oddruple, et cetera. So I really had to keep my toes there. And going into the third round, it was more so just putting up a good score, putting up a decent score that, coincided with what I was doing the last two days. I felt very comfortable out there on the golf course and shooting that six under was certainly not expected, but I felt like my game was there to where I could do so. And after the two-stroke lead, I didn't really think about

me winning until that final day, just because this is so new to me, being inside the ropes and LPJ as a professional for the first time. So, I didn't really think about, oh, what would it mean if I won? So, you know, push comes, push comes as a show, it's just been an incredible journey and I couldn't have planned out the weekend and then you better away. How did you how did you manage the final round? I mean how did you handle emotions? How are you feeling kind of between the ropes? You looked as calm as always but I'm curious how you were feeling. Of course you know I'm still human. I still feel jures and I feel butterflies. I do feel I did feel

relatively calm compared to other final rounds that I've been playing in, where I did have substantial lead because I knew that I had to put a good score up there, especially out here with the best in the world. I couldn't just guide my ball to be next to the hole and kind of tap for par. But that's essentially kind of what I had, what I did, that final round. Fortunately didn't make a single birdie, that was a little bit on the disappoint side, but I find it pretty admirable that I was able to make a couple parts coming in, and those were very crucial for me to maintain my position. That final round played very hard. Liberty National in general is a very difficult course. There weren't a lot of low scores out there from what I saw

in the life scoring afterwards, but I just had to really grind it out, find it and meet to play every single shot the way I should, and if it's out of my control, it's out of my control. Rose, you're professional now. You got to answer the tough questions from media. So here they come. But I, somebody that roots for you really, really hard. I've greatly enjoyed watching your journey. I got to say, the anwa yesterday,

you don't have, you have a tendency to make it pretty difficult for us at home that are watching this. So let me get a little anxious, a little nerve-wracking for us. It's a little bit of a journey. I'm wondering what your reaction is to that. You've obviously had incredible success. You've won almost everything you've played. It just has gotten very interesting at the end. How do you improve on that? How do you make it so it doesn't maybe end up as dramatic as it has last few times we've seen you on TV? 100%. I think it's still something that I have to work on. Sometimes even though you're

trying to grind it out last day, it's still better to not put yourself in a position where you're vulnerable to the rest of the fields. And that's something that I still have to continue working on, even though it's not necessarily me being super nervous. I do want to figure out in what ways I can improve my final round to make sure that, you know, I end on a good note or I end on a round that, you know, kind of coincides with what I've been doing while the previous couple days. So that's still something that I want to improve on and work on. So I do find a lot of areas of improvement. For example, putting short game, you know, that's always going to be something that I'm going to have to tone in on and hone in on for especially upcoming events like major championships and future LPJ

events. But I do intend to make things very interesting. That's why I felt a little bit more comfortable than I should be in this final playoff just because I've been out of the guesstown national and I'm freaking playoff. So it's definitely after you do that, any other playoff seems pretty, seems mildly okay. Well, it was noteworthy to me though, too, on this podcast after the anewa. You said your decision on 15 was one of the worst decisions you've made ever in your golf

career. It seemed like you were presented with a lot of those opportunities at Liberty National and as well at the NCAAs. And when it wasn't there, when you didn't need to force it, you just laid up and you relied on your short game. And it was an easy path to victory in both of those. I'm wondering if you learned something from the anewal and I've already implemented it because it looks like that to me. Definitely. You know, sometimes going for it and being aggressive,

will give you remords, but there's greater risks in different situations. And especially when you're under pressure, it's very hard to get the shot out or execute that risky shot when there are a lot of consequences on the line. So for what I experienced at An Long, it was certainly not a pleasant one. I know that it went the way that I wanted it to, but going forward, you know, you only learn from your mistakes and I'd definitely learn from that one. And that allows me to go forward with more improvements towards my game. So I feel like even after this event, there's a couple of things that I did that I feel like I could work on and potentially become better.

I want to ask a little bit about this week specifically. And if any of the unique kind of nature of that tournament helped you on Sunday, because playing with Anna Davis had to be, and trying to win a LPJ event had to be kind of a surreal thing that I would imagine had a bit of a calming effect on you, but I'm curious how you felt.

It was super fun. Throughout the week, I just felt really close to the age of your juniors. Back in 2021, when I graduated high school, I played my last US girls event. And these are the goals that I've been playing with in that final event. So, especially with Anna being close with

a lot of my teammates at Stanford and being close with a couple of my other friends. We just naturally became pretty good friends and throughout the rounds we've just been making jokes at each other because there's a lot of common ground that we have. So just being able to stay comfortable was very pivotal for me and I felt like Anna was just beside me the whole time. We were just having a good all-around and it was just going to be a fun one, one for the memories. But even in the weather delays that I was in this past week, I was just hanging around five, six juniors. And we were

just talking about college life and graduation, high school life, high school drama, etc. Well, I guess we'll get you out of here shortly. I know you got a busy day, but I'm curious, you know, it's got to be quite a whirlwind. I know you've, you've almost, you've composed yourself like a pro for a very, very long time, but I'm curious how, how's the whirlwind going? How you doing?

You feeling all right? You feeling overwhelmed? How are things? I'm feeling all right. I feel like I quickly learned how to, you know, ship years and relax a little bit after a lot of chaotic things happening. But, you know, it does take a toll. So the next couple days, I'll just be, I don't know, I'll just be laying low a little bit, doing my work, finals, tests, and I'll be hanging around with friends, having good meals. So it's not anything too crazy.

I think I keep things relatively simple and I have people around me who keep things simple for me. So I really appreciate that and that allows me to just keep grounded and do what I need to do to make sure that I'm okay the next couple days. Did I hear you still need to move out of your dorm? What's the timeline on that? How's that going to get done? Is that an accurate story? Yes, it is very much accurate. I am going back to school today and then I'll be taking a test tomorrow. I've got three more

finals coming up and then I'm moving out the 13th But then my parents are gonna help me which is good because last year it was right before The US woman's open and I had to move out by myself with another teammate and I'll be going back home for probably three days and then KPMG's coming up So be flying back to Jersey man World wind well and APMG's coming up, so be flying back to Jersey. Man, whirlwind. Well, we will, we'll let you go get started.

What test are you most worried about, by the way? I am worried about my CS1068 class, computer science. Python is not my language, and when you don't have a lot of time to code, you don't really know much of the syntax. Sure. AI for that. I'll call you. Use AI. Yeah. Cash, you've been told you would study. That's good. You got to learn to code in case this golf thing doesn't work out. That's

smart. I like it. Well, Rose, enjoy the rest of the day. Congrats again. We're also happy for you. Good luck on Sports Center. Don't say any bad words on TV. And, you know, I'm sure if you keep playing tournaments, we'll keep catching up with you. All right. Thank you for sticking with us. That was a long beefy couple of days of podcasting. And, you know, I want to give a big shout out to our guy, Phil Braim, who is a producer on this podcast. He stitched all this stuff together, not really sure what we would do without Phil. These days, he is up working late and really making this podcast sing and putting it out into the world. And so we really appreciate all of his efforts behind the scenes. We don't

really have a great feel of what our schedule is going to be going forward here. Obviously, we'll do the Sunday night pod, but depending on how news breaks, I mean, we might do another pod before that. We might do another three pods before that. So stay tuned and we will talk to you when we talk to you. But thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. And we will talk to you guys today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most.

Expect anything different. Expect anything different.