No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 733: George Gankas

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

George Gankas makes his return to the pod to talk with Soly about swing mechanics and how intricate and varied the golf swing can be, his work coaching players of all skill levels, working with Matt Wolff through his recent struggles, how he observes his players from TV coverage, his own aspirations of playing competitively and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. series of stories about those who challenge the status quo and golf and make positive change. You can view all of those episodes at SchwabGolf.com. It's fantastic content. We've been doing this with them for a few years and really appreciate all that Schwab is doing to support the game of golf as the official investment firm of the PGA tour. It is obvious Schwab has a passion for

both golf and investing. And now through October 31st when you make a qualifying net deposit of cash or securities into a Schwab taxable brokerage account, you can get up to six rounds of golf at top courses, a title is TSR driver, and a dozen ProV1 golf balls. You can tee up at over a hundred participating golf courses nationwide, including some of our favorites, ban and doon sand, bali, gear heart, cordoline and TPC sawgrass. For more details about Schwab's golf promotion in terms of conditions, please visit Schwab golf.com without any further delay. Here is George Gankas.

All right. We did a podcast like, I don't know, five years ago or so, long time ago. And I felt like you were on the verge of really busting out and you've definitely busted out since then. What's life been like the last five years or so? Wow. I mean, I think we did our podcast in the rain, didn't we? We did a pod and then we came and visited you out in the rain and did a video with you. Yeah.

There was about four you guys and we all did like lessons in the rain. I had a blast. You guys were the best like seriously the coolest people and it was fun. So five years ago, it started getting a little crazy. And then through the COVID period, it was kind of good for me, because I got to melod a little bit. And then it's back to pretty hectic, because I just had a kid just like you did, congrats. It's used well.

And so things are, I'm trying to basically adjust and a lot of things. My schedule is as busy as ever. The good thing for me right now is I don't have to travel right now, like on tour or like any of the tours, which I have players on all the tours. I just right now it, it's kind of nice to be able to not have to travel everywhere. It's kind of nice to be able to not have to travel everywhere. You get, you get your berries a little more when you're not on the road every week. I've like found out, I have free time lately of like, you know, time to think about some other things

because I'm not always on the road. It's crazy. But how's your business evolved? I kind of want to talk to you a little bit about that. I mean, you've, you know, if you follow it on Instagram, right? It, it, you know, we see the social fronting of the business and things like that. But how, what can you explain to the listeners that maybe don't know how you operate, how your business works?

So my business operates with me being on the mat. That's the first form of. So at this point in my career, if I don't stay, I guess, legitimate and have clients on the mat, it's going to be, or two or players, even. It's kind of a mixture of everything. So it's kind of like, put it this way. If I don't have tour players, then I'm not a legitimate coach in a lot of people's eyes. And I think that's probably the biggest thing. I don't agree with that at all. I like having hackers that I teach.

I like, you know, tour players, I like scratch players, I like four or 10s. I like all, if they're into it, I'm into it. So I love teaching. And I don't think I'll ever stop loving it. Now, am I going to be on the mat as much time? I've kept down four four days a week instead of like six. So that's my first plan as being on the mat. And whether I need to still be there financially or not is, you know, up to me now at this point, because I have a membership site, which I have a junior membership, I have a full membership,

and then we just film for all different languages. So that's gonna be cool. We haven't launched that yet, so that'll be another part. And then I also have all my training aids. So at that point, it's kind of like hectic the way. The cool thing is, is I have somebody in every category that's managing it all.

So I don't have to be the manager of all of it. So it's kind of hectic, but it's cool. I mean, I'm enjoying it. And yeah, I get stressed out, but I can handle it. You know, that one thing that has stuck with me since that rain, rain driving range session that we had in 2019 was just like, I, you know, we'd never met before. I was unsure as to you were coming off a trip from Asia, I think, at that time, and I was like, man, I kind of feel bad making them come out in the rain. Jocard, I was like, I kind of feel bad

making them come out here in the rain, but we arranged this. And you were just like, you were so enthusiastic about it. Your passion for teaching and golf is kind of what amazed me. I guess, where's your passion tank ranking a few years later? I still have it. I mean, every player is, you know, at any point, you know, you're not going

to get anybody who's had lessons from me talking shit about me. You're going to get a lot of people talk shit about me that have never seen me because they know if they've been on the mat with me, I actually put a fucking hundred and ten percent. I'm working my ass off for them. I'll say, hey, leave me videos, call me, I give them my number, and I know not every, and there's a lot of coaches who do that, but not a lot are willing to do that. I just wanna make sure they're good a week after two,

if I never see them again, I just wanna make sure that they know that I actually put in my whole 100 and whatever, percent that I do care. I do want them to get better, because if they get better, they tell bodies. They're stoked. I'm stoked. It's more than anything. I get stoked when they're stoked because they're doing things

that they've never been able to do before. That's stoked me. Well, it looks like from what I gather from your videos and stuff, your lessons look like. It looks like a bunch of people tackling a group project, right? It's not, you know, do you have more than one guy that you're working with at once? Like, it seems like watching your Schwab video, though,

it seems like, you know, guys come out and are kind of competing, shit talking each other a little bit, and you guys are kind of going down the line working with them. It looks like fun. It looks like, you know, a fun way to practice golf. Well, first off, you know, I'm 52 now, so that being said, you know, when I was 30, 35, 40, 45, you know, I had a lot more energy granted that I'm starting to work out and doing

some stuff that's getting creating a lot more energy. But in the meantime, it's hard to keep, you know, that energy up at all times. And I'm working eight to 10 hours a day. So if I can have Leo in the sun, which is one of my kids from Italy that's helping me out, great kid. He's like 20 years old. And then Johnny who's been onto her, who's starting to teach and getting a really good book, I'm helping them start to teach,

but they're also helping me. And to be honest, those guys are doing more of the work. I'm doing more of the directing explaining and I said, hey, let's do this and this. And they put the hands on. And it's so much better than someone saying, hey, let me tell you what to do. And I get a lot of shit for people putting hands on only when it's a girl, but we do it to everyone.

So the funny thing, it makes me laugh that if a coach would put me in a position and say, hey, get to this position, and I'm like this. And you're like, no, get to this position like this. Well, Johnny just puts you right there, and you don't have a choice but to get there. So what's gonna save them more time and create a better learning environment, I would say, there is nothing better than putting somebody into positions

and making them feel it and then see it, and the mere see it on video. And I think that there is no way you can't learn in a better, better place than that. The motions you just made with your positions are exactly where I want to be and exactly where I am. I got the flaming right help though. And I was like, but you're exact like I've, again, I'm going back and watching these videos

and I'm like, I want to feel where the club is supposed to be and I don't know how to do that on my own. I don't know how to get it there. And it seems like your guy's style of of doing that is different. I was first of all when I'm watching them, I'm like, dude, how do they not get hit in the head with the club? It looks like you're about to get hit with the club. It does, it does look like you're going to get hit. No one's ever been hit in the head. No one's ever been hit by a club. Johnny got hit by this kid, Jacks, who just won the six-year-old junior world in South Carolina,

or North Carolina. So the biggest tournament there is for juniors. And Johnny's coming up from behind the six. He's always five at the time and gonna do something to his arms in the back and got nailed in the head. That's the only time in blood just come rushing down. And that was the only time really anybody's been hit. I mean, I've held somebody's head in someone's swung and broke a club over me, but not the club head, which would have hurt, broke the shaft and the club just wouldn't have.

But besides that, I've never been hit. I've been hit by balls from side view of people that just are not very good hitting me, but never really by anybody I'm working with. So that's, that we're lucky. But how does that work in your mind in terms of putting people in the, like physically putting them in the position they need to be?

You know, I find when I'm trying to get a club in a better position, my my, I have so much muscle memory or whatever you want to call it that I can't, I've struggled to retrain my brain to shallow the club out or do anything to change my want to call it, that I can't, I've struggled to retrain my brain to shallow the club out or do anything to change my path to sequence it properly. Kind of, do you talk to me about your philosophy on how you, the growth you see from people and, you know, the drills you will do with them physically molding them into them and how that translates into a better golf swing?

All this sand up, and I'm going to show you something right now now. Like if I said, hey, listen, we have retraction. Just pull the shoulders back. You already have pro traction in address. If I said don't retract the shoulder and turn as much as you can, that's as much as I can turn right there unless I retract that shoulder. So a lot of people don't know how to retract the shoulder.

So they're trying to get up in this position and it looks like this, okay? So when they come down, it's gonna be a little steeper. So they're gonna do something to get it position and it looks like this. Okay. So when they come down it's going to be a little steeper. So they're going to do something to get it inside that's not going to be optimal for contact or face control. So the fact is as soon as I get a player to learn to pivot properly, all of a sudden I'll adjust their arms and their club face to a position, just putting it up to this position is going to make you narrow because the more the shoulder socket goes, the wider the arm is going to be, the less it is, the more it's going to

narrow. And now you look like you're bunched up. So if we don't turn back properly and have the correct tilts and the pelvis and in the left end of the shoulders, we can't create any action in the downswing. We can't create enough depth to get over to a certain position. So I could say, hey, I want everybody to get here That's internal external and then I want them to go over here and form roll and have some extension Which is just like holding the tray and form roll a little bit and oh, that's ideal right but now all of a sudden

You look over here and a person only turns to here. What do you think they're gonna do with the right arm? They're gonna go like this makes sense So until they can learn to get this under and back, they're not gonna reach that arm, so they're either gonna come back internal or they're just gonna have a really short swing. So when I have somebody like Johnny behind or Leo behind pulling them back to this position,

grabbing them into position, working their legs properly, we can formulate into a position to where now all they have to do is learn to pivot in the downswing stash levels by itself. So as soon as we realize that we're missing things in the pivot and we see what the shaft should look like, you can't do it unless you work your body in the backswing and everybody can turn. I know that a lot of people are like, hey, you're limited in this and you're limited in that and I've never found even a hundred year old people are like, hey, you're limited in this and you're limited in that. And I've never found even a hundred year old, 70 year old, 80 year old,

who is limited in motion. Yeah, they're tight, but none of them turn properly. Like you can't see any of this whining up. You can't see the tibia, fibula, the lady of the lower part, even turning. It's like they're just stuck in a position or they're so out of position, that they can't turn because they're bent over too much. And if they did turn, they're so out of position that they can't turn because they're bent over too much and if they did turn they're falling over.

So there's just so many reasons why people can't get into these positions and they're like, oh I'm limited or I just have two old I'm a last bullshit I'm 52. I can still do it all. I mean I'm not saying it feels always comfortable but emotion it doesn't hurt. But if you sit there and hold some positions, yeah you're're going to be tight, but that's part of being a good golfer. I think I'm going to watch what you just did about 35 times. I don't know if you were watching our videos before you came on because you just described all my problems in about three minutes span there, but it seems common. It's super common that people, you know, I do some limited and range of motion and we feed into it not to hurt physical therapists because I love physical therapists. I love people like tireless performance. I love all those guys. I think they're doing a terrific job getting people strength, flexibility and movement patterns. in the range of motion is an excuse because you don't know how to move their body right.

It's, I'm not a biomechanics specialist, but I promise you I'm a specialist in movement of getting somebody to get in a position as good as anybody in the world. And that's just the truth. But biomechanics is the study of motion and body. It's not something that I went to school for, but I'll tell you what, I can see what I want to put somebody. It's like, it's almost like a picture I see in my head that I want to put somebody here. And then I've got Johnny and Leo to help me do that. And if I did it by myself, I couldn't do it. So that's why when people go, why do you use these people?

And I'm like, because it makes my job a lot easier and I get a lot more done in a fast time. You've touched on it some there and I think I, you I think I go up through ebbs and flows of understanding what it means to shallow the club out, but it seems to be so important in so much of what you teach, right? And I know you're teaching style varies on who your subjects are and whatnot, but can you explain why that's such a point of emphasis

and for people like me that maybe understand it a little bit but don't understand it sometimes, what being not shallowing and out what it can lead to and what the sequences possibly can be to leading to a consistent shallowing out of the club. I mean, it's a great question because you look at Phil Mikkelson has been pretty steep. You've looked at Tigers not really, really shallow,

but you're talking about two of the best golfers in my opinion of all time, okay? So the fact is, is Tiger, he would be the first to admit he's not the greatest driver of all time in Norris Phil Mickelson. So there's certain things to shallowing it out and you look at the best ball strikers compared to the best players are not always the best ball strikers. Right now you got Sheffler, who is one of the best players, if not the best player right now, is a great ball striker, okay? His stats show it. The fact is, is most number ones are not the best ball-streaker. So we always look at who is the best player to say, these are the best mechanics.

You know, you look at Lucas Glover, and you watch him shallow and out, and you go, fuck. This guy's been on tour with the best ball-stats, but a lot of people don't know who he is. But if you watch him hit it, you'll recognize his best ball-striking just consistency. Are you adding speed to that, or are you adding ball patterns to that? Or is it just pure proximity to the hole?

So there's a lot that goes along with it. I mean, I could see somebody ticking a ball compared to really thumping the ball. And most of the time you'd rather thump the ball, but the guy who ticks the ball is actually proximity is better. And their ball patterns are better and they have better stats. So what's really important, so when I see somebody shallow it out, I just see them consistent day in and day out. So when we talk about shallowing it out, a lot of people just think it's with, you know,

external rotation, forearm rotation and just doing this action. To me, when I see a player who's actually got enough depth that means this button is Towards my right heel rather than up towards my head now just because I'm up here doesn't mean I can't Shallow it I could stand up and shallow it. I could tilt and shallow it I could use a lot of form rotation and shallow it But if I have enough depth meaning my left arm is on my shoulder line Okay, and I get in a good position with the face now wide open What am I going

to do if it's wide? I'm going to start coming back over the top. So if my face is in a good position, a lot of times my trail arm is in my shoulder is going to work in a position that will naturally shallow it. So if I have enough turn in my arms don't rise. I'm naturally going to be out of the shallow. I'm not going to have to have to work in the downswing. So when I see somebody who recenters a lot like they're over here and they have to recenter this way, a lot of times there's going to be no kick back in that shaft. So that shaft's not going to lay back. So as soon as I see somebody recenter by getting into extension of the spine and having this extend the trail leg to recenter, you can just turn on that rather than having to be 90% over here and start shifting back. That's not allowing the shaft to start kicking back

this way. So when I see somebody's shaft at a riding level the back line or a hair steeper than that, not like this, there's no reaction to the shopping steep. Okay, they're not just going to go, I'm just going to go across it and hit cuts, poles or slices, depending on where the face is From here all you have to do is hit it and assuming your face is at somewhere squared your back line And you don't have to do something for the last second to square it up It just becomes a lot more consistent and I look at some of the players I teach on my math And I have two or players come over and go to what is that guys hand cap that guys fucking good?

I'm like bro. He's never broke 80 and he goes what the fuck I'm like I've never been on the golf course when he's been playing for like six months the guy flushes because you can swing and hit it good doesn't mean you can play either so the fact is is just because someone's a flush hitter I mean I hit out the steep a lot of my life and I've shot low 60s many many times I think a lot of my life. And I've shot low 60s many, many times. I think a lot of people who play with me would tell you, yeah, I played a lot of good golf and a lot of shitty golf being steep,

but that doesn't mean you can't play and can't score steep, so that's the debate. If you look at Phil Mickelson, who I really like, I would never talk shit about Phil. I would say when he's steep, that's a guy who shoots really low numbers and wins or he's out of the golf tournament. There is no in between with him.

I don't see him as a 30 guy, you know, taking 30th, 20th. I don't see that. I see him top 10 or fucking not making a cut. And that to me because of timing is a big deal. But that doesn't any knock on him because when he goes, he goes. And he's one of the best of all time, in my opinion. But when he's off, he's off, just like a lot of people are. But there's a lot of guys who like John Rom,

who doesn't have a lot of timing in his golf swing. And you look at him, he makes cuts all the time. The guys who are making cuts are shallow, day in, day out. Simple as that. A quick here to check in with our fr cannot believe it has been o NFL game that is over. The

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restrictions apply. Not in for the delay back to George Gankas. How do you send your players on their way out in the middle of the day. I'm not going to say that I'm going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I'm not going to say that I he just going to tell me the same things? How do you send your guys on their way to practice and implement things and not be overly relying on you every time they go out and shoot a bad round? I think when a coach doesn't tell you a lot, it's because they want your mind to be clear and they want you to play better, but I explain everything in detail, whether that's too much for a player or just overbearing in information, I don't care because I want them. I believe that they're only going to come to me one time and I'm never going to see him again. So if I have that belief and the thing that I always tell players like, well, when should I get in? I don't give a shit when you come in. I'm booked for a year. I don't need you.

I want you to play good and I want you. I want to give you everything you need. So if you want to come back next week and you can get in, I'm all for it and I'll help you to death. But I want you to understand this information. So when you go look in the mirror, you go look on video, you know you're doing it right. And here's the check points. These are the things that you need to look. And if it's going bad, this is why is it your face, is it you're not recentering? Are you not getting depth? Are you not finishing your term?

What's really going on? I want them to be their own coach. And if they can be their own coach, they don't need me. And that to me has always been someone who cares and someone who is a real, real good coach for them. Not somebody that's going to rely on them. Because a lot of coaches, in my opinion, want you to rely on them because they need somebody to come back to.

So that is not me and I'm not knocking somebody that needs to keep business going because that's part of a plan. And that's a good plan. I think the player should see people very often. But the fact is, is not giving information out and not letting them actually think on their own is a different story. So for you to answer your question thoroughly, I would say you personally, if you leave a lesson, you should, if something's going wrong, there should be some detailed plans to what to do next. Am I getting steep? What do I do if I get steep?

These are your checkpoints, okay? If I'm actually starting to hook it, these are my checkpoints, you're not rotating through it. Why can't I rotate through it? Because you're moving your upper body off too much and you're not recentering. So now you can't rotate. Your face is getting open. You got to check this. So things like that are things that I'm very thorough on and make sure that they understand. And I also, like I said, I give my number for like two, two weeks out, you've got three ranges and they do. People send me videos and do that's the coolest. You didn't have to do that. But the fact is, is that if I can

20 seconds fucking see something on video, send them back a voice memo and it gets them on their way. Fuck, it's no brainer. What's the difference then in the guys you're teaching on the mats at West Lake versus maintaining guys that are playing competing for major championships like you have and guys that are out on tour. What's what do you see as the difference in kind of sending those guys on their way and the feedback loop process? I think tour players are so easy to work with that it's not it's becoming a better coach

when you're on tour than a mechanic because they don't need mechanics unless it's offseason. If you try and mess with them on a Monday or Tuesday, they're not going to have a good week most likely unless they find a feel that they really can go with and play. And that happens. But the fact is, is offseason work is for mechanical stuff. And I think that players on tour are so easy to move and change patterns really fast, but are they gonna do it and trust it on the course? That's a whole different story.

It depends on their mindset. And I think that people on the mat a lot of times, they're like, I have a club championship. I'm very like fragile to that. Let's just get your ball patterns, let's get your distance control. Let's be a coach right now. When they're like, I don't have a tournament for two months. I'm like, all right. Well, these are a couple things that I think we should work on. We go hard, hard on it. And they have time to work on something. But it's always a timing thing for me, depending

on whether I, when they're a little junior, I don't care what they say. I just move them into positions. I get them hitting a good. I don't care what they said I just move them into positions I get them hitting a good I don't even care what their parents are saying I just I just gonna work and they start hitting it good and then they trust simple as that but if I start doing one little thing on a junior I'll do like five things in a lesson I don't care and next thing you know they're wrapping it in 30 minutes and it's that that's fun for me juniors are fun because their sponges and they get things quick and thing you know, they're wrapping it in 30 minutes. And that's fun for me. Juniors are fun because they're sponges and they get things quick and a lot of people are like, oh, you don't have to tell a junior anything.

I'll tell them everything. And then I'll actually get them to do it. And that's the fun part for me. What is, I'm curious what your role has been in the past several years with Matt Wolfe. A lot of people associate you with Matt Wolfe and his rise and that's you do to her. I think forever probably linked together. And it was been, you know, an eventful start to his pro career. He wins on the PGA

tour as a 19 or 20 year old. I forget what it was finishes runner up the US open. Has some ups and downs in his personal life and ends up, you know, going to live. That's been a little bit dramatic on the on the team's smash front and recent weeks and months. But how is your role with him? Has it evolved in terms of how you're kind of coaching in from a personal standpoint to golf swing? Like, kind of, what's your what's your kind of relationship update with Matt Wolfe? First off, Matt Wolfe, I've been teaching him since he was 13 and he's like a kid to me. I love the, you know, I think that everything was very easy for him from 13 all

the way up through college to first two years on tour, got to number 11 in the world. And then for some reason, he just really, for some reason, I don't know if it was that he didn't like the actual attention or the fame or whatever it was, or he just didn't want to play. And that led to a couple of things, like I'm not hitting it good, or your swings changed. We never changed anything in his golf swing. There was no changes we were meeting. He started to do a couple of things, and he be the first to admit that where he wanted to get a little bit flatter,

then he'd always been up top. And he did that on his own, and it kind of bit him, and he knows that. And right now, I think he's swinging it probably the best. I've seen him swing it. He took third three weeks ago on the live. That was after you know the thing with with Brooks and I just think there was times where he just didn't want to play golf. I do but I don't think the talent's ever been gone or he doesn't have the skill because if you're playing with him and he wants to play he's gonna shoot fucking low. If he doesn't want to play, he's gonna shoot 72 to 74. It's just, or even higher if he doesn't want to play. So, and I have no control of that. I really don't. And if I could take some blame, I'll take any blame that people in the public want to give me. I don't mind that. But I really didn't

change anything in his golf swing that would be out of, it's just been look at what you did when you're hitting it good. Let's get you back there. He lost a little of his flexion coming down. He got a little narrower. There's just little tiny things. He started to actually his pivot change a tiny bit, but right now we worked for the first time. Since he started the season when he was on film, Michael, since team where he's playing really good the first time. Since he started the season when he was on film with the team, where he's playing really good. First time in like seven months, we worked four weeks ago. And he hit it really good.

And it's another thing. He lives in Florida. I live in California. It's a pain in the ass for him to come out here. It's pain in the butt with me having a kid that's just happened six months. But I love Wolf and, you know, whether his his game or his attitude's got, you know, a little bit where he doesn't like it, you know,

he'll be the first to admit when he's wrong. He's not a guy that's going to blame it on anybody else. So when Brooks things happen, you know, they could have done that privately. I personally don't have anything against Brooks. Brooks has always been cool to me. I've never had an issue at Brooks one time. So there's there there was never an issue at that. And and Brooks and Wolf liked each other. And I think that there was just some some incidents where, you know, Wolf possibly wasn't playing as hard as he could. And he called him out on it. And you know what, in my opinion,

as much as anybody doesn't want to hear it, I don't think it should have done publicly, but I think it did Wolf good. I think it did. I think it woke him up in a position where I'd like to shake people up sometimes when I do that, but Wolf's a a player that, you know, has enough money that if he doesn't want to hear it from you, you're not going

to hear it from him. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. That's it. It's an interesting thing as a coach because I want to be there for him. And I know that he's going to be on top of the golf world again. He's 24 years old. So people think he's like 30.

He's still a kid. To me, he's still a kid. But the fact is, is the talent is there. I don't think that he could ever lose his game completely. Even in his spotty parts, he took a top 10, like, I don't know, probably five times. You know what I mean? So when he wants to play, he can play.

And I think that he's figuring it out right now. He's a much better person than he was two years ago. And fuck, if you talk to him in person, there's no way you can't love the kid. He's great. Well, and it just, it's, you know, he was a really young kid when he came out and got hit with like, you know, the COVID thing hit him. For somebody that's like a really social and outgoing person, you know, to be isolated

so much and kind of learned the really hard way how lonely tour golf can be was just, I guess the longer I do this, the more I'm amazed at how well these guys roll out of college and into the professional lifestyle of sponsorship obligations. And Wednesday pro M you got to be on for that. Your Tuesday practice flying Monday maybe or did you get it? It's a lot. And if you're not like fully prepared to handle it, it might expose you. You throw on a wrinkle like COVID, which just seemed to kind of affect him a little bit more than it affected other guys. It's, it was just, and that's all I was curious if your role is

as golf coach extended past like, you know, into handling stuff that's off the course and things like that. And I think that when somebody wants to handle, I think everybody has a time when they're ready for it. You know, you could give anybody. He has such a good corner on him. He has so many, so many good people that can give him good advice around him. He has such a good team that, you know, it's just when he's ready to do it. And he's been ready for the last like, I don't know, last year to actually make changes.

And he is. His attitude's got better on the golf course. He's never, he's never a dick. He's, he's a sweetheart. He really is. He's just a dick to himself when he plays bad. He's, he's mean to himself. He beats himself up. But he's not mean to anybody else. He doesn't disrespect anybody else. And I think that that's something that people don't understand. He just is like, God, I suck. This, not, but the fact is, is overall as a human, the dudes. I mean, it's not just because I'm a coach. I would love the kid if I did.

And if I saw things on TV, maybe I'd have an opinion that I didn't like, but if you met him, you'd be like, bro, let's go, dude. Come on, you know what I mean? You'd be like, you can handle this, you're fine. And he is fine and he realizes that shit's gonna do. It's turning around right now for him. So he's got a lot of good years ahead of him. And he has the most amazing caddy ever, Nick,

who is great for him and knows him well enough to when he needs to chill out. He can, when he can talk to him, he can. And he might get some blame, like I get some blame, but it has nothing to do with Nick. He's the greatest. I love Nick. Like he really is awesome for Matt Wolf. I always think back to when I think of how young Wolfie is, is when we played, when we played at MetaLess, I think that was December 2019, we went in the locker room afterward and had a drink. And he didn't have one.

He's like, yeah, yeah, I'm not 21. I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that. It's, you know, we got to see a little bit of that, you know, that the fun, like match play and really engaging stuff from him that day. And I think back on that one a lot, but I think you're the first person. I mean, everybody asked me and I publicly don't want to, you know, throw out dirty laundry or of what's going on.

So, you know, I got to watch what I say as much as I can, but that's my honesty right there, you know, without like telling too much. But the fact is, is that he's getting his shit together and he'll be the first to admit it. He's admitted it publicly, but I've had a lot of chances to talk on his behalf. And it's really not my area to talk about somebody else's stuff that's going on. And to me, I think that he's figuring it out and he's getting where he wants to be mentally and physically. So it's a good thing. And it's, I think when he joined Liv, I think I was, you know, one of the first things

I said was that might make perfect sense for someone like him. I don't think he was in love with the week-to-week grind of the PGA tour, 14 events, whatever it ends up being May and up being a good, a team come right. I mean, the team situation has not worked out great for him, as we can see. But on Phil's team, I think that he was good on Phil's team. He had a chance to be on DJ's team. And to me, I love DJ too. DJ's always been cool to me because I'm friends, obviously, with the grad skis, and Tristan, and obviously Paulina's with Dustin. And that being said, DJs always been awesome to me. So when we met with DJ and we were talking about being

on that team, I thought that would have been a really good kind of mix because DJs with some players that have character and have things that people either love the players and the team or they don't like the players. because DJs with some players that have character and have things that people either love the players and the team or they don't like the players. But DJs, a loyal person to his teammates and not that Brooks is not, Brooks just has a different way of, he's more like a coach, get your fucking shit together

and let's go. And personally, I was trained that way in almost every sport I played. There was no like time to be soft at all and if someone's calling you out, you have to get your shit together. And so DJ's not that way in my opinion at all. Maybe he isn't his own personal life,

but as a teammate, he seems to show, maybe he's not that I don't know, but from what I've seen, he's just a guy that's going to be like, what do we need to do to get you better? What do we need to do to make you feel more comfortable? And so that could have been a good, good match for him. And Mikkelsen was a good doom too. And I think that him and Brooks had a good relationship up till three, four weeks before that. And I'm not going to get into any personal stuff that happened over there, but I think that him and Brooks had a good relationship up till, you know, three, four weeks before that. And, you know, I'm not gonna get into any personal stuff that happened over there, but I think it'll all work out for the better.

I'm always curious with this with coaches. Your guys, when you see him on TV from whatever those angles are, from, you know, could be on a T-box, you know, from fairways and stuff like that, can you tell when things are going great, what's going wrong, what's going great? Can you, you know, sitting on the couch, is that a good enough angle to be able to understand why the balls go in certain directions with some of your guys?

You know, but when I see them on TV, some of my players, I know that they're playing well because they're on TV. But right off the bat, I already can tell if someone's playing good, but I can also tell a week before if it's going to be a good week or not, just by, you know, their attitude, their mental, and sometimes, you know, I'll be wrong and they'll be playing like shit and then I'd do that. I found something on like fucking Wednesday and then I'm like, sure you did, buddy. Next thing, you know, they're playing well and I'm like, okay, sick or, you know, I'll tell them something that I see in the video and they're like, dude, that feels better and all of a sudden they'll be playing better. So sometimes it's really quick, sometimes you can tell, or sometimes it's the opposite.

Someone's hitting it really, really well. And then they don't play well. And they'll call me and do that. I didn't hit it that bad. Or they'll be like, dude, I don't know what happened. I just lost it. So golf is so fickle. And that's why it's hard that you can have it, you know, as me a coach, it's really weird. And it's not like about me, but I'm just going to tell you how hard golf is. You know, I'll go and shoot a really good number. And the very next week, I play once a week, you know, I got on a Monday or I'm going to play today this afternoon.

And last week I played really good. I was six under and this week I could shoot 76. You know, it could change that and it does. It's, you know, I'll shoot sometimes it'll be like 72, 72, 72, and then sometimes it'll be like 65 the next week, 75. And you're like, it just, and a lot of times, the feels are so different from week to week. And if you're not hitting balls and you're really not working

on it, or you don't have a blueprint of what you wanna work on, for me, it's an extreme because I feel like I don't change shit. And the next week I get on the range. And I'm like, bro, everything feels completely different. I'll look on video. I'll get some of the feels in the looks back and it'll start to feel a little better. But then I got to go play right away. It's just we can weaken it. We can. It's different. So for a player that struggles and you see them playing really well, for like two, that's why you see a lot of players get their card in two weeks. You know, they hold their card in two, three weeks of the year, because we don't stay hot all the time.

And it could just be you're hitting it the same and your punting's not good. Or you're not, you're not chipping or pitching it very well. Certain things, or you'll hit one random shot that's not like you, and it'll cost you a trip or a double. And it throws you out of your game. So things like that engulf change confidence a lot. So yeah, to answer your original question of, you know, when I see a player on TV,

how do I know I can see the angles? Yes, I'll slow-mo mo it and it'll be like, all right, this looks a little different. Or a lot of times when I look at it, alignment looks different on TV, but a lot of times the alignment depends on where the guys hold in the camera. And if the if one of my players is hit in a big draw because the pins in a certain position or a big cut, those are things that you'll see. In the in the Schwab video that I referenced earlier, it sounded like you wanted,

you were potentially either trending towards or being encouraged by some of your coworkers as well to take on more competitive golf yourself. I believe John even said he's been encouraging you to try out for the champions tour. What do you want to get out of competitive golf yourself and kind of what are your plans there and what's what he been doing?

You know what's funny is that when I first started playing, I started late and I played college golf. I started when I was 19 and then I played D1 golf. So I really was not good enough. I think physically I've always been good enough but mechanically and mentally I was not good enough. Okay. So the fact is, it's because I never had enough tournaments under my belt and I never had somebody really train my golf swing the way I wanted. And so I think when I started cutting and teaching, uptell us about 30,

you know, I started getting better and better up to that time. When I was like 30, I was full-time coach on 52 now. So that's full-time. I was working four or five days a week. And then I'd go play two days a week when I was off because I take two days off or maybe sometimes three days off and I play some really good golf

and I started shooting some mid-low 60 rounds. And so I started getting confidence and I play one day Pepsi to our events or gold state events and I've won quite a few of them. So I was like, I can play The fact is I'm not playing in five days in a row or strings of time So when when people ask me, you know when I was in my mid 40s as well as I do it It was incredible how low I would shoot how often as playing like two three and then I started getting really busy what I was like to it. It was incredible how low I would shoot, how often.

I was playing like two, three, and then I started getting really busy when I was 46, about six years ago to where I was playing once a week. And it was good times and like some spotty times. So now where I'm playing, you know, I'm getting to play, if I'm lucky twice a week, you know, I'll have a good day and I'll have a fair day or a bad day.

And so Johnny's like, dude, you gotta stop being a pussy and you gotta, you gotta play. And I want to play, but now I have a six month old kid that I, you know, I get off work and now it's like, you gotta be a good dad. And I want to be a good dad and I want to spend time, but I also want to play golf. So there's, there's a time right now where I'm like, all right, it's not about me anymore at all. It's more about my players and it's more about my kids, about my family, my wife, my, you know, my whole family. And so, to me, I think I will break and play. I just don't think that I'll try and pursue it full time, but there's 100% I'm gonna play. I'm gonna either try and qualify, I'll, you know, I'll play in some things that will give me the option to play well or not play well.

And that's fine with me. I just, in my heart, I feel like I don't wanna have a regret of not playing at all competitive golf, on a high stage or high level. Even though I'm a coach and I shouldn't be playing because coaches aren't supposed to be good, but I just know my level play and I can play. Man, so much of what you just said,

I can relate to. I felt like at one point I wanted to play a lot of competitive golf, and then it just became harder and harder. All right, well, I'm going to miss work from this. I'm going to miss time at home for this. I got to travel for it and I got to practice for it. It's really hard to do both things, right? And it's, you know, and, and, too.

I mean, if you want to play a golf, you know, those champions to our players are not. Oh my god. There's so some that are like writing off that are 58 to like 64, whatever. And they don't care as much. And I'm not talking about Bernhard Langer. He's still a badass for life. But I'm talking about some of them that are probably more family-oriented. And yeah, they're not playing their golf

because they're not putting in the time probably that they know they need to. But at this time when I'm 52, there's not anybody that will be longer than me on that champion's tour. I can promise you that. I mean, not even Podrick. Me and Podrick. Me and Podrick hit it. I I love Patrick. And he'd probably laugh me go, fuck off. But the fact is, as I can swing it, I can, I can get my ball speed up to 190 like he can. I love golf, whether it's teaching or playing and I feel like I would give myself, it would be a disservice to myself if I didn't at least, you know, play some events. You mentioned ball speed there. And I think a lot of people, I admit five years ago,

I would have thought you were a ball speed coach, right? I think that can be a unfair kind of label, I guess, on you. But how do you, you know, a lot of discussion on technology and golf and analytics and things like that? And it, it seems like you are at least a leader in the industry in terms of saying, here's what we need to do to gain speed And here is the advantage you're gonna get by it. Do you have like a general philosophy of Trying to teach speed to people and what the benefits of that are and I'm curious your reaction any of that

I think that here's a deal. I think that people should control their irons And I think that if you do build speed with the driver It's not a reckless speed. It's it's doing certain things to your body that are going to create speed, not swinging harder, not swinging speed sticks, and I have nothing against speed sticks because they work. I'm just saying you're not trying to swing it harder with your arms. You're trying to use your body in the proper positions and use the ground in proper ways that are just naturally gonna create it.

And we've had a model forever. Jamie Siddlowski is a model for speed. Whether you like his wrist angles or not, you don't have to have them there, you can have them here. But you look at his body and the way his body works is so simple to understand for me and copy that I could be, I just give somebody a tip and go, hey, listen, all I want you to do

is get your hands above your head, but you can't do it unless this shoulders back behind this ear, so you can see it here. I don't wanna see it behind your ear, your hands up here, or above your head, because now you're just gonna look like this, okay? So if we can get our hands above our head, we can get our chest like face this right now.

If I got my chest up more, you can see the lower lumbar here and the spine extend. And you can watch this hip not do this, but you can watch it load down. Just to bone those three tips alone should get you more speed. Now we've got rocking to it.

We've got extending up. We've got taking some of the left bend out and then moving back into it. There's so many things that are gonna create speed. Now we've got rocking to it. We've got extending up. We've got taking some of the left bend out and then moving back into it. There's so many things that are going to create speed. But Jamie said, Lowsky was the originator of it. I don't care if someone back then was longer than him and they were all juiced up and big. He was not any smash and no taking away with somebody to juice and fucking smash. And I don't care about that either. I'm just saying for somebody who's 165 pounds, they were swinging in 150 miles per hour is insane. Okay. And so we have his model of how much you move up there. If you just copy his back swing alone, which anyone can do, if they know how to

move their body, you're going to pick up speed. And then there's other things that I do with heavy and light clubs and how many reps I do and how freezers get you to these positions and how to start the downswing. And to me, I'll pick somebody up like for podred people alone when when we first started, I got them to 130 something right off the bat. Okay. So the fact is he was already speed training and doing some other stuff. But when people ask about speed, and he's got all the speed from whoever did it from,

he got speed from me from the start. And it was fun. And I'll tell you what, all my players that they got, I want to get speed. I'm, what do you need speed for? Well, I've got too many long irons mid-hands in and I'll start. We'll talk about that. And another thing is what is distance, distance is deloft too. So if you can deloft it,

you can actually compare to adding off. You can create so much distance too. So distance isn't just speed. Distance is also, you know, ball efficiency. So those are things that really are big deal. Yeah, I was shocked as in three swings pick up 18 yards of distance without increasing my ball speed just by getting my loft and my spin at a way better number than I actually had. What way? That's a yeah, it's sick. It's it's it's it's wild how much technology can help and all that stuff. But I'm curious. I've heard you talking the past about feeling, you know, a bit like an outsider in the world of instruction. Do you still feel that way? Do you feel like you've gained

respect? Maybe from more teachers who took a more traditional path in recent years. Is that something that bothers you at all in any way or what's your view on that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I mean, there's been a lot of people have been pretty welcoming and in the PGA of America. I think that No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and they'll talk shit and hate. And I welcome it. I don't mind that at all. That doesn't bother me. I think that I went down probably a different path than a lot of people. I didn't really have a mentor of how to do things, how to start a business.

I'm not a business guy. I've become one, but it wasn't something that I was trained to do. I wasn't trained on mechanics. So when I learned my mechanics, it wasn't from a certain person. It was from golf swings and good players. And so that's a little different than me saying, oh, I learned this from, you know, a certain coach, which I did not. That's awesome. Well, hey, man, I've really, really enjoyed this. I know you got another appointment to run to him to get you out of there in time,

but we got to do this more often. That's on me. It's been way too long. Too much time has come by. Appreciate you asking great questions and I hope I didn't offend anybody. Oh, God, you're yourself, man. That's that's what you're a breath of fresh air. I think of the golf world. It really is. It's been it's been good getting to know you and we got to stay a better touch. I know that's that's on me as well. Anytime. You guys have always been great to me and if you need anything after this let me know appreciate George Take care, man. Thank you. All right. Have a great day. Thank you

Be the right club today That's better than most That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.