No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 741: When Revelation Comes with Jim Hartsell

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Ahead of the release of NLU's film about our friend Jim Hartsell and his book When Revelation Comes, we recorded a podcast with Jim, the film's editor Matt Golden, DJ and Tron. We get Jim's reaction to viewing the film for the first time, reminisce about the trip and the memorable courses and moments from our journey and Jim's experiences since the book's publishing. We hope you enjoy the film and this complimentary podcast and we encourage you to consider purchasing a copy of When Revelation Comes - available via Back 9 Press or wherever you get your books: https://back9press.com/pages/when-revelation-comes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello folks, DJ Paiowski here thrilled to be back with you for another Nilling up podcast. We have a very different type of episode for you today. Toronto and I are going to be joined by our good friend Jim Hartzel, who is the author of multiple golf books, a long time friend of ours. I was thinking about today, I think he's probably one of the first NLU listeners, any of us really met in person. He's been listening to the podcast forever. He was one of the first members out at Sweet and Skov,

which is where we always used to run into him a million years ago. And he is just a infectiously good guy that just puts in a good mood whenever you get to spend some time with him either digitally, like we did today, or in person. Jim is also the subject of a film, a capital F film that we released this week called When

Revelation Comes, which was directed by our friend, Matt Golden, who has worked with us forever. We were also lucky to have on the podcast with us today. I would say that if you are able to do so, I would definitely recommend watching the film first. It is now live on our YouTube channel. It's pretty emotional. It's a pretty emotional journey through some pretty massive tragedy in Jim's life, but I think it also does a really good job shining a light on all the people and the places that really helped him put his life back together, many of which we're going to give some more details on

and discuss on the podcast here today. Film is obviously pretty heavy in some spots, but the podcast today was really, really fun. Just kind of talking about a lot of good memories, all the reasons why Jim loves Scotland, all the reasons why he's always loved going there for his whole life. And I think it's just going to really shine through today,

just how much he loves kind of anything and everything that has to do with Scotland, which obviously he's going to find a pretty sympathetic audience because we all tend to do with Scotland, which obviously he's gonna find a pretty sympathetic audience because we all tend to agree with that as well. Last thing I'm gonna say before we get started is that if you are at all interested in Scotland, in golf and Scotland, in Jim's story, in Jordan's story, I would really recommend picking up a copy of Jim's book,

which is also titled When Revelation Comes. The best place to do that is to go to back9press.com and buy it directly from the publisher. So again, that's called When Revelation Comes, Back9Press.com. So without further ado, here's our conversation with Jim and our friend Mac Golden about When Revelation Comes. Enjoy. Be the right club today. That is better than most. That is better than most.

That is better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lingup podcast. My name is DJ standing in for our fearless leader, Sali. We have quite a crew assembled here today. Our Scottish contingent, we have Tron Carter, Tron. Greetings. Hello.

Hi, how are you? Greetings. Good day. Good to be with you. And I've had a smile on my face for the last two weeks, just because we've been putting out all this Scotland stuff and being able to relive it and just relive those experiences. Gosh, I love that place. Well, we're going to do some more reliving today. We're going to talk. We finally let the Wizard of Oz out from behind his curtain. Matt Golden has, I'd say exactly 17 minutes outside of the edit bay. Matt, hi, how are you? Oh, yeah, I'm taking a little break from, you know, our final touches on the film and feel strange to talk to other adults. This is weird.

Usually just click away on my keyboard. But yeah, we will get into a little bit of how who Matt is and where you've seen all of his work and why he is on the podcast today just shortly, but before we do, I wanna introduce our final guest, one of our absolute favorite people on the planet. You've probably heard him on the Trap Draw podcast. You've read his writing in the golfers journal or links diary are right here on nolangup.com.

It is our good friend Jim Hartzel coming to us from Huntsville, Alabama. Hartzel, Alabama, really, I guess. Is that right? That's right. Yeah. Well, look, DJ, it's an honor to be on the main podcast. I've been on the track for all several times.

And I didn't think I'd ever graduate to the top echelon, but here I am. So thank you for having me on. You know what, it's the end of the baseball season. We're calling guys up. You know, we're just see what they're made of. Now's the time to shine. College football started, you know, just.

That's right. Yeah. That's exactly right. Well, Jim, thanks for hopping on. We are gonna talk at length about the film that we dropped this week when revelation comes, which of course shares the title with a book that Jim wrote last year and has talked it great length about. And we were finally able to kind of tell that story on our YouTube channel. And so we're going to get into all of the details around that and how it came together.

And I really speak to my good friends who made it happen here. So, but before we do, no ads on this podcast, it's just a bonus bonus episode. But we do really, really want to shout out our good friends at Footjoy, who made a lot of this stuff happen. They help sponsor our film rooms that we did from there. They help sponsor the main film. I think this is, you know, without putting too fine a point on it. This is kind of illustrates exactly why we wanted to partner with foot joy with title list with all the people over there. Their main directive at the beginning of the year was kind of just go do what you guys think you should be working on and we are going to be there to support it and This is probably the best example of that. This is a project that came together That we didn't really have to think twice about because we had support from them and it's it's one of my favorite things we've ever done

So well if I could I would just say one real quick thing on that and I know you may not want me to but that that gray and blue Zip up and I know you may not want me to, but that gray and blue zip up jacket is the best thing to play golf in that has ever been devised. I'm a trying, I think, wore it the entire time and I wore it most of the time. It's just perfect for golf. Anyway, I've wore that thing non-stop since I got one, so I just want to throw that. Jim, they should test out shoes with you just because you You also damn much over that. Yeah, you know, you know, you want her shoes and they were they served you well. The I guess they're the contour that I and they were perfect.

They're so comfortable and you don't slip and anyway, I'm not a I didn't Bridey this day on but I don't all that stuff was just perfect for the weather and everything that we were in so well There you go testimonials from the audience there I mean you couldn't have said a better myself Jim. Thank you for that and we got to work on You know of course if you watch the film right we got to work on Your agent hasn't gotten back to us yet about the pinnacle sponsorship But we're gonna we're gonna effort that with our friends at a cushionette holdings as well. All right guys, a lot of places we could start first. Jim, I want to start with you.

You had a chance to watch the film for the first time today. As I mentioned up front, it is, it is based on a book that you wrote in 20, really came out in 2022, but the whole book is based around a trip that you took in 2021. We tried our best to kind of recreate the feelings, the thoughts, all of the things that went into that original trip and really tried to celebrate your return trip that you took in 23 with Tron and Matt and Patty and Robbie and all the people that you see in the film.

And so I guess we'll just start really high level. You're reaction to seeing it for the first time. What was kind of the most important thing for you to have come across on film? And I guess just kind of the most important thing for you to to have come across on film and and I guess just kind of initial impressions. Yeah I've got to say it's it's difficult to talk about in a way I mean I watched it once when Tron sent it and I just really cried the entire time I was watching it to be quite honest with you it's just beautifully put together in it. It just what I love about it is,

this is a terrible subject. There's no doubt. But that's not the point of the book. The point of the book is to celebrate life and to celebrate Jordan's life and to celebrate the Scottish people. And that's what this film does. And just to see Robbie and Greg and Finley

and Harry, who's one of the greatest characters it's ever walked the planet. I just, I laughed out loud while I was crying. When I wrote this book, that's what I wanted to happen. I, you know, and you guys have read it and, you know, they're humor in it. And I deal with life with humor a lot of times. And I tell Tron, he'd try and text me a few days ago. ago and he said, look Jim, I want you to know this, it's

pretty, at times it's emotional and I said, as well as long as there's humor in it, I'm fine. He said, don't worry, there's plenty of that. And it is. And I just can't thank you guys enough for the way that you captured the spirit of this book and the spirit of the people of Scotland, which just totally comes across to me, which is, I can't ask for anything. And honestly, I test a tribute to Jordan too. I just, uh, that part and some of the stuff. It's perfect. It's perfect. And so thank you for that. Well, the guy who had maybe the biggest hand in crafting how the final project looks is is Matt Golden who's on the pod today. You've probably seen his name in just about every

credit that I think we've ever put out. Matt has been working with us since we did a tourist sauce Australia and just to embarrass him a little bit. I think the first interaction we ever had, you know, we're I had just quit my job at the PJ tour. I'm pitching these guys on like, oh, maybe we should make a travel series. I don't really know how to use a camera, but maybe we can shoot it on our cell phones. I don't know. We'll just let's just go to Australia and we'll shoot it all and we'll figure it out. Matt had just cold emailed me and was like, hey, I'm a freelance editor. I'm making it, making a business for myself. And you know, I watch what you guys do and listen to the podcast and

my specialty is just kind of taking a big pile of footage and just trying to find a story on it. I was like oh my god man this is our this is our guy. This is how we do. That's right. And so as much as people like to to pile credit onto me which of course feels very nice and I would never share with anybody but it's really matte behind the scenes that spins a lot course feels very nice and I would never share that with anybody. But it's really mad behind the scenes that spins a lot of these things up. And I think Matt, this is kind of the first time that we've really turned you loose on like, hey man, you're running the ship,

you're shooting everything, you're editing it, you tell us what you need. And so I want to start with just like, what was that experience like for you? And how did you see Jim's story? And where did you want to take it? Because this is something I think you, me and Tron, have been talking about for, I mean, really going back

before Jordan passed away and just seeing Jim's passion for all these places in Western Scotland. And I think we've been talking about this for three, four years around like, God, if we could ever go to Western Scotland with Jim, I think that just feels like the dream project. And obviously there's a lot more context added. So Matt, how did you kind of want to wrap your head around things and where did you start?

Yeah, first off, you're going to get so many cold emails now from... That's right, I don't respond anymore. Right, yeah, no. We found our guy, we're good. Good timing, good timing. But, you know, yeah, we've been talking about this one for a long time. And I think it had so many different layers and kind of stories that we thought it could be. Still in this piece, it's like mixing three or four or five different trips into one thing.

And we get a little bit of like, okay, show us, you know, the travel series of it all. Show us these places that we know you love and show us why and the people. But then we also have kind of the full circle moment of the book signing and that whole journey and the journey of writing the book and the journey of, you know, getting to meet all these characters and Robbie and Greg and all them.

And I think it was just when we've set out to go shoot it, our baseline was like we have the source material. We have this incredible interview we did the gym in his office. If we just go create B-roll and capture B-roll for that, and get really beautiful stuff, which is not hard at these places. It's point the camera, press record, and make sure you save the files, which

is harder sometimes than you do. But thank goodness, we tried to get more than that. We tried to capture the moments and the levity and the culture and the people that were able to bring healing and were able to transform Jim and all of us, you know, to a new place. And I think we were able to kind of achieve that. I think we were able to achieve showing off these places with incredible shots and that baseline, but also something a little bit more to. So no, this one's been a special project and this has been something I've been working on for a long time and I can't wait to get it out into the world and see reaction from people. But, well, Tron, going to you next, I mean, I know we have a lot of ideas. We're no shortage of ideas around here. The fact of the process of actually going through and booking fairies and booking plane tickets and booking golf course T-times, it's lodging and all of that is like quite another animal.

So like, this is easily the kind of thing that I think could have stayed in the ideas folder, died on the vine, you know, a million times over. What was what was it about this that like, really made it stick with you that it was like, no, we're dropping everything we have to we have to make this happen? Well, a the fact that Jim was booking all the fairies and doing all that stuff. I should have. I mean, this yeah, like the guy who's a whole other story by the way, like you guys had a whole other trip you were going to take and a lot of the fairies were running. Yeah. Yeah. We're logistics. We love logistics and I might be actually a little bit better than him. Yeah. I'm a little bit more into logistics. I'm a little bit into logistics. Yeah, no, it was, I mean, it was something Jim and I had talked about, you know, going

to Scotland together like we played in the, God, we played in the sweetens member guest. Was that three or four years ago? We played. Well, we played together in the first ringer we played together. Yeah, and I remember just talking, you know, just bouncing ideas around there and, you know, all these places in Scotland that you love going a cove sea and presswick and and Cullen and and you know just all these little weird interesting corners of the world and specifically in Scotland And just the way that you see the world as an architect and I don't know

Just your passion for little details and little observations. It's just always been like, hey man, I want to go on a trip with this guy. I want to travel with him. And I think that's that reputation you have is kind of showing through to all the people within NLU. So I think that that made it a lot easier to sell the idea of there's a trust level there with you and Randy and with you and DJ and with you and Neil and you and Sally and it's it's something to where you know They know you're the real deal and and there's something there with the idea even if we don't know exactly what the idea is kind of like what Matt was saying of Hey, you know this this story could be

Five different things right it could be a travel log be you know just kind of a You know bevice and butthead do Scott could be just kind of a, you know, beevus and butthead, do you, Scott? This could be just a bunch of, a bunch of pretty golf shots if we mess up the audio. This could be, you know, but like the floor was pretty high, I think. And yeah, and then even just, you know, as we got into the planning process, like we had plans, Ascarnish was going to be our big kind of climax finale going out to, you know, one of the most remote golf courses in the world and the outer Hebrides and, you know, Emma went up to Isle of Harris and some other places. So this trip had about six or seven different iterations or versions. And to Jim's credit,

we just kind of rolled with the punches and had all sorts of different options and kind of off ramps and on ramps and worked through all the ferry considerations and got to a workable place and I wouldn't have done it any differently. Well, I think I told you at the and one of our early conversations, I said we'd better be prepared, you've got to be flexible because you just don't know what's going to happen. And what I love about you is you're like, yeah, that's fine. We'll just, we'll just roll with it. And we had to, we had to change. Unfortunately, we had ask permission.

I'll have Harris all set up and we had to, we had to cancel it because of the ferry problems. And but it worked out fine because we went to Iona and that's what I tell people. And if you're, if you're going to go to the islands, you just have to be prepared and not freak out because there's gonna be stuff that happens. That's just the way it is. I mean, it's something too.

We're like, if, if we don't go to Iona, we don't get one of the best, you know, the funniest moments of the film. Or I don't get to meet Finley. And you probably don't go, you know, you go back and play in the open competition this year. And it's like, you can't get set on one specific experience or one specific place or course.

It's almost like you have to look at the totality of it because whatever that door closing, you know, sets aside, it's probably, you gotta look forward and see that there that there's you know five more great options for you that That's a perfect analogy it opens like four or five more doors and I took me a lot of Accept that but as you get older you learn that that's just the way it is and there's just so many options So yeah, I mean it worked out fine the way it did, but I do hate that we missed U.S. and Harris. We'll get there. I just get this reason to go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Jim, one of my favorite things about U is like talking to, you know, we've met a lot of

Scottish people over the course of doing NLU and taking a bunch of trips over there and running into them at, you know, all kinds of different areas. And one of my favorite things about about you is you're kind of this like cult figure even within Scottish like this like weird quarter of like the Scottish golf internet, right? Where it's like, man, I saw Hartzels posted photos from like where I don't even know where the fuck that place is. And he's so far out there and he like you've kind of become this like unofficial tour guide. And I just, there's something about it all starting from kind of rural Alabama that is just like one of my favorite things in the whole world.

So I was wondering if you could kind of talk through like, when did you start going to Scotland? How did you get kind of so enamored with all these places and kind of what was that process like? Well, it's interesting because, you know, the first trip I took was in 94 and you guys covered in the film and it's in the book, but I originally planned that trip around to the Link's Land and my dad was paying for everything. I just got out of college and he's great. You guys

met him. He just said, look, I want to just play Karnusti in the old course. We'll go wherever else you want to go. And so I thought we're going to McRHannish. We're going to Cruden Bay. We're going to Dornock. These places that the Bamberger had written about that quite frankly, I mean, you guys can go back and look. I mean, nobody talked about back then. I mean, I don't even know another American that even knew about Macrihanish. So we went on that trip. We started out and played, you know, the old and the new and Karnusti and, you know,

these places that you do. And we went to Cruden Bay. We went to Dorne. We went to Macrihanish and we just fell in love with it. But that's when I found anewrty. And that was what really, it wasn't even Macrihanish I love and it's in my top five and always will be. But when I, that first time I went to anewrty, which I, you know, you guys did a great job of which I cannot believe David Baxter came to that book signing and was just honest to God, I can't even believe that. The man that introduced me or told me to go here to the Navidad, when I played that

play, something, something went off in my head. I'm like, okay, this is different than anything else I've ever done. I cannot compare it to any other golf I've ever played. And I just love it. It's fun, it's wild, it's holes cross each other. You're playing over blind hills and you're playing over cows. And it just, I just literally fell in love with it. And I've never stopped. And I've played all the great ones and I love them.

I've played in your field, I've played old, I've done all that. And I wouldn't trade that for anything. I've played Turnberry, but I just fell in love with this type of golf, this community golf, this natural golf, which the West Coast, you guys have spent most of your time on the East and rightfully so, but the West is different than the East. I think Tron will jump in and agree with me on it. It's just, it's wilder, it's rougher, and there's just something about it that I love. And so from that point on, I'll just,, I'd go over and we'd play one or two

for the big names but we'd spend time at the Navi, we'd find Caridale, we'd just look for this stuff and without fail I would be like I cannot believe that you can just walk out here and pay 10 pounds or five pounds and play this. I mean when I saw Tron at Caradale, I thought he was going to start. I literally thought he's going to start crying. And he just, I had more fun watching him his face every whole week came to. He's like, Jim, I can't believe this. I'm like, yeah, okay. I mean, just for nine holes. And again, I say it in the film, when you play golf like that, it's just, I don't know what to say about it other than, you don't even, you get energized by it. Instead of being tired at the end, you feel like you gain energy from it from from, from, from, from, from, from, from from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from, from now with social media and Google Maps and the internet.

It was a lot harder 30 years ago to kind of find a source material book that's written by Herbert Warren Wind or somebody that goes out and finds these places. And... I mean, the realest example that you keep, you always use for me, Tron, is like, Jim, going through and trying to find the fairy schedules, like months and months in advance, when they come out, like, I don't even know how

do you, I don't even know how you like find the phone number for the fairy company before, like, the internet. Well, there's, I gotta say, you know, Tron, there's another book that I need to mention that, that actually led me on this path. When I was over on that 94 trip. I was in a golf bookstore in St. Andrews. We got my dad and I got in the queue and we got to play the old with these two guys from Los Angeles. We joined up with Iraq, the Americans, but we had a great time. And I went to this great old bookstore and I found this book called Hell's Goffer by a guy called Tom

Morton and he wrote about Caradale and Denavity and he wrote about Askernitz even just all these and I was just intrigued by it and that was my first because you're right DJ there was no there wasn't no internet or or Twitter or Twitter or Instagram to show these places. And nobody talked about them. I mean, you might occasionally in the back of golf monthly, they would print a little hidden gym segment about pan mirror or Montrose, but they wouldn't do it one about denabryty or Harris or askerness. I mean, these places were off the right

are. Well, so what's the feeling like like rocking up to it 30 years ago? Like it's very easy, like Tromba saying, it's like, man, if you're telling me it's awesome and you've already been there, like that's very easy for me to get on board. But like if you have flown halfway around the world, they go see this place that you read about in a book from 1955 or 1970 or whatever it's from. It's like, is there like an anxiety of just like, God, is this golf course even going to be there? When I get there, what the like, how remote was it? What was that feeling like?

I loved it because I love this. I love a sense of discovery and adventure and I loved just take off these places like Olive Seal which Matt and Tron will agree sort of turn off the main road and you're like you're on one lane road and like where are we going and you can just bridge and it has one lane but I'm fairly wide enough for one car and I just love that sense of what is going to be what's going to be there when I get there And I just love that sense of what is going to be, what's going to be there when I get there. I've really never been disappointed. I just, I just love that part of trying to find these places

and getting to these places and, you know, what you see on the way there. We didn't get to play out of seal this time, but we spent a good bit of time there. And I could just tell it, Matt, and, and trying, like, oh my god, this, look at this. I mean, and these places are just, I just like the sense of trying to find them. And, and, and they're very vibrant and, in their little communities. And they don't spend a lot of money on them. It's just there for people to play golf and get together and and and have something to do.

But it's like it's crazy because you get there and there's no disappointment either. It's like the courses are actually like some of the most fun places you'll ever play like a caradel or Corey were we played or Shiskin or or I mean, I mean, Jim even like like a great example is that bridge the the so-called bridge of the Atlantic. And then that pub next to the bridge, there's stories about the Scots, whatever they would leave the island, they would hang their kilts up there.

And- Because of the high on the clearances, they would hang their kilts up. It just, and see, I love stuff like that. And I love the history that's tied into, like whenever I go to these places, I try to look for what the local history is. And even out at, I was still that,

I think I talk about it a little bit in the film. And I know I do in the book, but these islands out there that are called the Slate Islands, that are just solid mounds of slate in the ocean, which I don't even know how that however the geography works for that. Try and y'all can talk about it on the trap draw, but it's just pure slate that they used to build all these roofs in Europe and Scotland and England. And you go out there now and it's just, they haven't. Of course, these things have been closed for a long time out, but in nature's taken back over, but it's just beautiful and so I always try to look for the little historical

twist on these places too when I go like the gravity and the you know the mull of can tire or the fact that St. Colombo landed there in 500 AD or whatever it was and And that's part of it for me today, but I've really never been disappointed. I've never come up to a course that was closed or anything. So I don't know, maybe I've just been lucky with that. Matt, what was your reaction to a lot of these places? Because I feel like it was your first time in Scotland, right? Yeah, this is my first time in Scotland.

You know, we land, we start that drive that thought we were going to melt your brain. In the back of that tiny car, you know, those roads are unbelievable. But the biggest memory for me is, you know, you land, it's what, a two, three hour drive down, seeing Denarity Rock for the first time, getting out of the car and being like, yeah, we're going to climb up that and get some drone shots because the sunset is like the most insane sunset we've seen and you know, I think the best one of the trip. And so we're like, yeah, we're going to go shoot right now and go climb this rock that it's different than even seeing the footage of it. Like when you're there and you're seeing the scale of it, it's insane.

But no, yeah, you're right. Everything is so wild and natural and there is a lot of like, you know, hiking involved. It's a very physical. I love your line about your tin Lucas aides. I related to that many a time on our trip. Which which was by the way is one of the greatest drinks that's ever been developed. I mean, I hope you're sugar and orange juice or what is it? It's orange juice almost. It's but it's got a carbonation to it. I don't know. I growled about five back when I came

this last time. Jim Hutt said I know you guys had some like, you know, challenges. I won't say troubles with the, uh, with the schedule and kind of getting every the final itinerary dialed in. But what, you know, you, one of the big pieces in there was the book signing at Denavardy. I know that was kind of the centerpiece of of this trip in a big way. Um, um, why at denavardy? Why was that such a, uh, you know, in obvious kind of center of gravity for you? And then, you know, how did the rest of the itinerary kind of come together? It had to be centered around Denavity. I mean, most of the book obviously covers most of Scotland

or a good portion of Scotland, but it always sort of comes back to Denavity. I started there, Scotland, but it always sort of comes back to the narrative. I started there, come end up there at the end more or less. And it's just the place that I love most. And so we had the fact that I wanted to do this book signing and this book really the book launched for for Scotland and in the UK, there, it was the only place that I could do it. And I think Toronto and Matt will attach to people were just so, so great that day.

And really the whole time we were there, but they just went out of their way to make it just a fun event. And there was a lot of members there. And a lot of people came from all over George Clark and came down, which was just incredible when I saw George come in and like I said, David Baxter came in and it it was just I can't that's the only place when I when I finished this book. And I wanted to I wanted to do some things like this to promote it some. I wanted to do some things like this to promote it some, but the only one I really felt like I had to do was go to Denavari. And the fact that we actually got to do it and they were so nice about

it and they were so happy to host us there and the food that they made, I think trying a 25 the white little wispy sugary things. Yeah, oh yeah. He saw what are these things? He had everyone that they had up. The meringue, they were meringue. Yeah. Oh my God. I don't know. It just, it had to be there. It's where I would, I would live.

If I, if I could pull it off, I'd, I'd, I'd move tomorrow and I could come visit whenever you wanted, but it's just my favorite place. And so to have gone there and to have people like David and Graham, that one of the other club officers and everybody was so nice and so welcoming. And to me, that just that place is kind of what started me on this path of trying to find these sort of off-the-beaten-path places. And I'd love to have a book signing at square books in Oxford and get right top and to show up and have the whole Oxford experience. But I can't top in everybody. If that's the only one I ever do, then I'm happy. You got to tell me before we move to too far past an average about the sea captain's house

as well, because I think that was, I've seen you light up a couple times. I don't know if I've ever seen you quite light up the way you're describing the sea captain's house, but you're telling me and Tron and Matt about it in Huntsville. Yeah, I tried to, I hope I didn't oversell it, but I, you know, I tried to, there's nothing, this place is just ridiculous. I mean, it's not even, it's not even an accurate depiction of reality. I was just about to say that the description,

we're gonna give her a gif, that what you know, it's above anything else. I mean, it's just, I'm serious, guys, this is just, this is not an accurate. Do you ever understand the time where we did that? Why is that? Well, it's not, and, you know, I, I, I probably I would digress a bit here,

but that line and DJ, I'm going to say this for you because you're a film and music man. But Barry Levinson made a film called Tin Man a long time ago. And I hope you will watch it sometime because you laugh out loud, but it's got Danny DeVito and I think Richard Drafts is in it. It's about Baltimore. A lot of his films are something Baltimore, which is a great place to set movies and films as you guys know, but there's a point in somebody's describing something to, I think, DeVito.

They're talking about them, and I forgive me, let me tell the to, and they're talking about them, and I, I, forgive me, let me tell the story, but they, they, they're talking about the TV show, the Nanzah, which was that show in the, the 60s with the, the Western and, you know, whatever that guy's name, Lauren something was the, he was the father and they, somebody's, they're talking, they're sitting at dinner and the guy says, I don't understand Bonanza. You got a 47 year old father and three 39 year old son. That's not an accurate depiction of reality. And it just, for 35 years or whatever that movie came out,

that has stuck, I watch that movie in the theater. And it's just, I laugh, I still laugh about that line. Whoever chaps of the guy who, if he's still around, that wrote that line, but anyway, it just, that, that's why I've, but yeah, the C captain's house, I hope I didn't oversell it. And I don't think I did because I, I wish it says, so this is, this is the place you guys stayed.

When you, you know, in the film, when you get to Dinaverty with the, with the red roof right in the building right next to it. It's kind of where you guys you guys kind of made your home base for a couple days, which I think is just a it's just a normal kind of rental property. Right. I mean, it's it's an airbnb. And it's an old lifeboat station. There's a two story house and there's a little cabin, a cottage on the edge of the water that Robbie now stayed in, Matt and Trond had the top floor of the house, which is

just a beautiful house. It's built into the rock, it's like carved into the rocks of the Navarit rock, and then there's a boat house on the edge. And it's just, it's just ridiculous. I mean, you're looking at the sunset, you're looking at the kill hotel, you're looking at the beach. You had Northern Ireland, like, what, 15 miles away across the, across the channel there. Yeah, I looked out the window one morning and the little cottage and Tron was out. Y'all, you guys had to do some, y'all were doing some kind of thing. Just do my job, King's Fix. Yeah, your draft Kings fix. And I looked out the window when he was standing.

Well, he was standing on the edge of the cliff with the northern Ireland in the distance. This is like at six o'clock in the morning. And I looked out the window and I did, I did take a photo. And I thought, this is what a world we live in. We're. Tron is doing his draft Kings picks on the edge of a cliff, looking at Northern Ireland at 6 a.m. in the morning. We've got enough self-service out here to actually do it.

But it just, look, every time somebody asks me about going there, I'm like stay at Sea Captain's house, Donnie McLean, who you guys met is just the greatest guy. He loves people. I don't even know if he makes any money off of this. I guess is he probably does not make money off. I think he breaks even. And he just loves meeting people that come stay out of this place. And I see that's the kind of stuff I love. I will send people there and I will go there as long as I can. It's affordable, it's beautiful. You can walk 60 yards to the fourth green. You can walk over to the 50 and start T off there. have, are the kings of, of, of, of world travel, but to me, it's

like the ultimate golf place to stay. That, like, not to mention, it's, it's at the base of one of the, like, probably the one of most historic spots in all Scotland. Like, there's, you know, there used to be a castle on top and just all the stories that Robbie was telling us about. Yeah, this happened. And then there was a battle here. And then a hundred years later, there was this bloody thing happened here. I was like, oh my gosh, man, like this is, this is just really rich.

It was one of the key battles in the clan between the clans when that stuff finally started winding down. It may have been actually the key battle. And there's actually a marker to the ride of the first fairway where they buried like three or 400 people that got slaughtered on the beach. Again, I think I talk about it in the film, but this history of violence and what people have gone through there.

Again, I think it just gives them a different perspective on life than we have. violence and what what people have gone through there. Again, I think it just gives them a different perspective on life than we have. So, but yeah, I that plays man, I just, in fact, I've probably, since we went on this trip in April, I bet I've sent, you know, a hundred people, I'm like, they're like, what should I do if I go to can time, like stay at the sea cap and say, I'll. So I hope got a contour, I'm like stay at the C-cappin's house. So I hope Donnie appreciate, I know Donnie does appreciate it. He's a, he's a, he's a very low tech guy and he doesn't, he's not on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram or anything, but he loves

what he does and he loves meeting people and talking to people and to me, again, I always say half the fun, but probably 90% of the fun is the conversations that you have with people when you're there. You guys mentioned Robbie. I think that's a good, a good segue to, to move into him a little bit. So he, he pops up in the film all over the, all over the place is Robbie Wilson. We're talking about Jim, I've, I've started with you just year.

How did you guys meet and and how did that relationship kind of come together and evolve? Well, I started following Robbie on Twitter. Link, he's at links Robbie and, you know, I used Twitter or whatever to be. Call it no ex or something, but it I use it for golf stuff and sports stuff. I don't really care about the rest of it, but it's great for that. And I hope it never changes for that stuff. But I started, I found Robbie from following the stuff he would post about, he works for historic environment

Scotland. And he takes care of all these like ancient sites on the west coast of Scotland. He'd post these pictures of the places when he would be at work, like I'm fixing. You guys know him on an architect. Robbie is a Mason too. I'm a genius at Masonry and stuff. He'd post these photos. I'm fixing this arch at Castle's Queen

or I'm taking care of this or that. It was just beautiful stuff and he has such, you know, Robbie would hate me saying this probably, but he has such a beautiful eye for photography. He captures things in just the perfect frame and there's an art to that. And even on just a phone and so I started falling for that and when Jake and I planted this trip that we went in 2019, Robby and I,

we should measure one of your seven. Yeah, my middle son, yeah. Yeah, we, I said, Robby, I'm going to come over with Jake. I'd love to press the play. And we just started DM and back and forth. And we wound up going to the Navi to play, which was interesting, because we were going to play Macrihanish, then we were going to play Caridale. And then finally, we wound up selling on the Navi because Robbie had to work and that was the only day he could get off. And we just had such a good time.

I mean, literally the most fun you could have playing. We got done and we just kind of like, this was just, this is the most fun I've ever had. And from that point on, we just became close friends. And you know, he's become one of my best friends and you know I'm sure Tron and Matt saw it from this trip. He's just a very genuine man that likes for people to have a good time and he he he loves to show off the West Carst of Scotland. He's proud of it. And he's just such a great ambassador for golf

in that country. And honestly, the, you know, Scotland tourism should pay him in addition to historic environments. But I, so I started off just from the architectural stuff because he's an expert on the masonry and finding stone. And I just, that stuff fascinated me. And that's how we originally connected. And then it went to golf. And, you know, he's a member of Micahannish and he knows that course, like the back of his hand. And so anyway, he's just a great guy.

Yeah, he's just such a repository of knowledge too. Like everywhere you go, not only is he know the details about what it is now, but he knows the previous six iterations of that thing. And just such a rich sense of history and great storyteller knows how to tell stories. And but it's never, it's awesome because it's never about Robbie either. It's always. No, he's so humble and he's so empathetic and he's just a just a remarkably kindhearted person and I I'll tell this I'll tell this real quick because everything you just said is a hundred percent true

But when we had this disaster on our own We were we'd run it in McDougal which we could do another podcast just on McDougal dogal, which we could do another podcast just on McDougal, the garage man. And you know, he, McDougal has, I have, I'm good at understanding Scott's actions. I would say I'm above the median level. Tron was like, Jim, I cannot understand a guy. I'm pretty good at understanding these actions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, I cannot, I do not know what this guy's saying. And we were on bus of going back after all the stuff that happened and Tron was sitting behind me. I almost broke my leg getting on one of these double-decker buses, which that would that would have just added to the story. Of course, we'd never got to play anymore. But I feel like you still would have played even if you had a broken your leg. I probably would have probably well you know bear a bright plate in the 42 Tennessee game with the with the broke leg and you know so I would have done the same but

Tron was sitting in the seat behind me and he called Rob he said Jim most robbies number and then I he said I heard him I was sitting there listening because Robby you got a call this McNeughan. I cannot understand a fucking word. He's saying. And of course, of course, Robbie jumped in and sourced the entire, I think Robbie called the tire store in open. Yeah. So Robbie, yes, I mean, there's like five other things that happened to, so like, we get up that morning, we're in open, we take the ferry across to what was that Craig here and and then we got to drive all the way across Mul beautiful drive up over you kind of feel like you're in Colorado in spots And then we stop we drove for a little bit Jimmy going to that little convenience store and then we keep going and Yeah, we just hit a pothole. We hit this big ass pothole and both the tires and the left side just immediately you know and like not only does the car

not have a spare but you know wouldn't have mattered because we wouldn't have had two tires new one. Definitely doesn't have two spare. So we Google it and we're like hey like oh there's there's a garage like there's like two garages within one's not really a garage and then the other one it it turns out, we get up to it, it burned, it burned to the ground like four days prior. Like it's like still smoldering, right? So we, um, fuck, all right. So then, and make doodle, man, doodle one is frandors like standing out in front of the smoking grooves of

this place. I mean, again, you cannot script this. I should. And I'm dressed, you know, I like, I had put my golf shoes on that morning. So I'm wearing like these white, like the white and light blue foot joy, you know, like the ones they did for the masters of cereal, like the pastel, but the pastel and the guys were like, nice shoes, man. And so, so I end up, we end up getting so thinly on Iona ends up getting one of his colleagues or his buddies to come pick us up in this van. The car sits there. There's there's no tires on the island that fit, you know, they're like trying to find the right size of tire or whatever. There's like three garages on the island that are in working order. So we're like, you know what, screw it. Let's just go over to Iona. Finley picks us up in his boat. We play golf. It was awesome.

It was just like Iona like Brandy needs to get to Iona. I think that might be his favorite place on earth once it gets there. He won't leave. He won't leave there. You know, just we could talk about Iona for two hours, but the, but we end up finishing up there. We can't get back to Craig near. It's like an hour 20, right? Like we can't get back to Craig near in the tow truck. He's not going to go back to the next day. So we flagged down the bus, like the double-decker bus going across the island. Well, we miss one, but one bus came by and the guy was like, no, he just wiped this off like he didn't have any room on it. That's it. And I'm like, what the fuck are you going to be?

We're going to be sleeping on the fucking beach tonight. I mean, Mr. Blair, the guy, the guy just went flying by and I'm like, well, we're done now. And I called Finley, said, well, there's another one coming by. I've talked to him. So yeah, go ahead. It was like the whole the entire community like of like hillpeed and or is that the right or What's the place on that fear for and yeah the entire community is like Knows what had happened at this point. I guess there's also some Swedish film crew That also had like double flat tires that same day on the island.

So I'm like determined, we're like, hey, we're going to get off the island tonight. Like this is we're going to do this. So we end up like waving the bus down the bus stops. You know, there's a hundred people on this like double-decker bus. We've cut our golf clubs. I see a bus or what? It's like a, it's like public transportation, but it's almost like a mix between like public transit and a tour bus. And so we, yeah, we stop, we throw all of our stuff

down underneath, like, I mean, it's everything from the car, too. It's all the camera equipment. It's a bottle of scotch that Jim had been getting, been not given. It was, you know, our travel bags, all this, all this shit. So then we end up getting on, we pay, you know, we got to pay the fair right there. You know, very windy narrow roads for like a double-decker bus, much less, you know, even like a mini-cooper would be tough getting through some of these roads.

Finally, get back, we get on the ferry, we get back to open. It's like, oh, thank gosh. Robbie had called the tire shop in open. He called around like the three tire shops in open figured out which one had had the the right size. They didn't open up till nine the next morning. We didn't know if the ferry the next day if I could get tickets on that ferry the next day, because like the fairies there's not enough fairies running and it's really affecting mall and you know I own and all these other kind of local communities and so I was able to get get tickets on this ferry and then I had to book the ticket for the car coming back on like the very next ferry so I'm like this needs to happen in like an hour or 90 minutes so I'm on the ferry and the one so we go to the the tire shop we're waiting for I don't know hour and a half or so.

We got some great footage from in there that we can do in like an outtakes reel. And then, you know, I just grabbed the two tires and I walk onto the ferry with the tires. And I'm sitting next to these two guys dressed in suits. And I'm like, who the hell are these guys going to, you know, I own a dress in these suits? Turns out they were, they were the insurance adjusters going to go into the garage that had burned down. So I walk over the tow truck, like Dougal's waiting there with the tow truck, cars on the back of it. He drops me, like, so I hop in with the insurance adjusters. He drops me at the garage. The guy in the garage is like, not giving me a time frame.

Like, so this could take six hours or it could take, you know, 25 minutes or whatever. They don't give a fuck on these. No, no, no, it's a, it's a, it's a different, it's a different one. Yeah, and I'm not going to, you know, I'm, I'm totally with it. I'm on his schedule. I'm not asking all that. Finally, he just kind of nods to me. He's like, go upstairs. There's like this little like, attic, not asking all that. Finally, he just kind of nods to me. He's like, go upstairs.

There's like this little like, attic, nook up top. Guys like daughter, who's probably, I don't know, like mid 30s, was kind of running the cash register. She's like, hey, here's, here's the money. You know, we kind of squared up there,

got back on the ferry, went back across. You guys had gone down the Macri Bay at that point. I drove down and kind of met back up with you guys, but it was, it was an eventful 36 hours. And like the entire time it was just like, what else could possibly happen that would be outrageous? So, which is, which is fun.

So I remember hearing all this, this whole story like 12 hours after the factor, whatever. And my immediate reaction of course is just like God, Matt, I hope you were like filming all this stuff. Because I know, you know, first time on the road was some of these people, you don't want to be, but like if that was me, it would have just been like pure cameras and everybody's face. But I was curious what that day was like for you.

No, yeah, I mean, it was pretty heated at times. I'm not going to lie. It was tense, right? I mean, it was like, man, are we going to get to play Iona? You know, like, it's just like, well, try and got mad at me a little bit because I was like, are we seriously taking all the shit out of this car? He's like, yeah, we got there. And we had everything in that car.

I mean, it was, it was a production, man. I mean, I don't know how we pulled it off. You got us. Because like, worst case, too, a production, man. I mean, I don't know how we pulled it off, and gone. Because like worst case too, was like, if they didn't have the right tires or the fairy thing didn't work, I was gonna be like, you know what? Like, we will leave the car there.

I'll come back up later that week and then like, we'll rent another car at the open airport or we'll train down and figure out how to get over to the island of Aaron. Yeah, you know, once we figured out, everyone's gonna be okay. Everyone, you know, we all cooled down a little bit. And it's like, okay, it's time to, time to document a little bit of this, you know, tastefully. So no, I think we, I think we captured the essence of it.

Once, once Finley arrived and he took us on our way. It was like a whole new day at start at that point. Like just on the up and up, and the time we had out at Iona was unbelievable. So that's what's so cool about a lot of this is I feel like I don't get to, you know, I feel like I'm on a lot of the trips or I'm editing a lot of the stuff or whatever. And so like to have something that I just purely am like seeing for the first time, just like an audience member, just makes me so upset

that I have never met some of these people, right? Robbie and Finley and all these people, like Finley in particular, I'm just like, man, I wanna hang out with that guy. Like, what's that? Just tell me everything about that guy's whole story. Well, we had, I think I've got this right. We had reservations at probably the best restaurant in Scotland that night or one of the best.

And we got there. And that's went up to me. We just, everybody was just laughing. We ordered a beer and we were just, and it all became just like actually fun. You know, at all sort of swish at that point that we managed to get to get through it and you know that in itself was just a you know just a great experience but the fact that we made it there and we still got to do everything we planned to do and a lot of it is credit

definitely. I mean he just he was the one that kind of orchestrated after we read he was the one that orchestrated the entire production and then Robbie jumped in too. So, going back to Robbie for a minute, you know, I should have mentioned this up front, but you went through kind of a lot of the blow-by-blow with Randy of kind of how the book came together and what the timeline was and a lot of that stuff on the trap draw last last year. I think it's episode two oh nine. So I again would encourage everybody to go check that out if you want to go deeper on kind of the specifics of the film and the book and kind of how everything, however, everything came together. But I didn't want to ask about Robbie because it's, you know, you're, you're obviously going through this, this unspeakable crisis

and this, this unbelievable moment in your life that is impossible to reckon with. And I'm curious why Robbie kind of felt like the guy to turn to. Right? I mean, from the outside looking in, it's kind of like, oh, here's this guy that you've met from the internet and kind of spent a little bit of time with. And man, you're talking to a bunch of people who met on the internet. And I feel like I can really relate to that feeling. But for those that maybe can't, why do you think he was the guy that was kind of on the top of your, your call list? It's an interesting question because it's a valid question.

You know, we had that great time in 2019. And we immediately, I can remember us after we got done, we were standing in the car park at Denavari, and we immediately, when I can remember us after we got done, we were standing in the car park at Denavari, and I said, Robbie, we'll be back next year, and I'm gonna bring Jordan, and we're gonna play again. He's like, yeah, let's do it. That's what we're gonna do.

And then COVID, COVID hit right after that. And so you guys know, because I think you had 10 triups canceled but I had, we'd already planned a trip where we were going to go back and play several days for Robbie and we had it all booked and I think it was March or in February or March, I just all slips away from it. Whenever I think it was early 2020 when that all started and we had to cancel that and everybody said, well, it'll just be, it'll be a few weeks, it'll be fine. We actually rescheduled a bunch of it for another, I think we rescheduled it

for July and then that fell through. And so I was talking to Robbie that whole time and the more we talked the closer we became it just seemed like that we had similar interest and with architecture and golf and it's just such a nice man and you know so by the time that this happened, we'd become really good friends. I mean, we talked on the phone and we texted and DMed all the time. And we loved the same like on Sunday when the European tour, whatever the DP, whatever they call it now, which we would watch that and we'd be texting back and forth and we'd watch, you know, golf tournaments. And we just became very close. And so that's kind of how it happened. You know, so when I got to this point, obviously I had friends that came to the house and a few.

And it's just such a, again, I think I say this in the book or the film, but people don't know what to say. And it's such a horrific, horrific situation. Thinking back on it now, I can't even imagine walking into somebody's house where this is just happened. It's just the worst thing that you could have to do as a person. So I do understand, you know,

people's reluctance and like, what do I do? And so Robbie was like, he knew what had happened and he was across the ocean and I don't know. He just, he was just, it just, that's who I turned to a lot and I don't really know an answer for it other than he just seemed like the person that was. The best person to talk to and he was a great outlet for me to kind of talk about stuff and in a way that some of the people here that I knew were not. And maybe that was because it was a little bit of distance between it. But, you know, the guy just, I mean, I credit him honestly for me still doing what I'm doing today.

I mean, I just, he's been a great friend. And I don't know if that's the right answer for it, but it just, it was just one of those things where you sort of have a feeling and he was there to listen and there to help. And in a way that was different than or even more, in a way that was different than or even more in some ways more helpful than people that I knew because they didn't know what to say and he was just more available or more more willing to talk to me. So I don't know if that's but that's my answer for. I feel like there's a I was talking to somebody else about this recently too and I feel like I feel like there's a center of gravity to golf that I think maybe non-golfers don't necessarily understand, where it provides this center of gravity for relationships,

and it's something you can always fall back on, and it's just this, it just creates a really high floor to all kinds of different relationships. And there's examples of all kinds of people in my life where it's like, hey, such and such lives in San Francisco or Texas or England or Maine or wherever. And like, would I ever go there, like pack all my shit, hop on an airplane, fly there and like, just to hang out and have dinner with them and their family? I mean, like, you know, maybe like I would have a great time doing that.

And I would like to think that I would. But realistically, that's, you know, it gets pushed down the priority list and, and whatever. Whereas if you told me like, Hey, would you like to come to San Francisco and play golf with such and such person at this place and this place and this place? Like it just, it almost just kind of like, I don't know how to say it other than just center of gravity. You know what I mean?

It provides this, this context for these friendships and relationships. And that's certainly what I took from the film, right? It's like when, you know, you guys, I'm sure we're not sitting there talking about Jordan for a month straight. And you know, when you can fall back, I'm like, man, Robbie, isn't this a fucking amazing golf hole? Is like, God, there's so much to be said for that. and Robbie, isn't this a fucking amazing golf hole? Is like, God, there's so much to be said for that. Golf is the ultimate framework for what you just described. And I've tried to write about this

the last nine or 10 years. Exactly what you said is the greatest thing about golf. And listen, we all love watching the Masters and the Open and Open Championship and the Open and so forth and the Ryder Cup and the Walker Cup. We all obviously love that. But for people like us, golf is, that's what golf, that's the greatest thing about golf. It's, it provides a framework for people to connect in a way that

It's different than normal life and I it's been that way my entire life I mean the best friends I've had my entire life are through golf And it's been that way since I was started playing and I imagine it'll be that way till the end. It's just that's what it is and That's I think and forgive me for saying this, but I think that's why you guys do what you do. I know you love professional golf and covering women's and men's golf, which we all love, but ultimately for people like us, that's what it is. It's a framework and it's a way to live your life

and meet people and share your life with people. And the golf course is just the best way to do that. And in Scotland, when you're able to walk these places, when it's 60 degrees and it's not oppressively hot and you're in nature and you're talking to your friends and you're talking about whatever with Harry about when he wrecked a motorcycle and broke nine bones. I mean, I could tell Tron was so fascinating with Harry,

which I knew he would be. Like the best man. I think Harry may be his ultimate guy that he's ever met to be quite frank. I mean, the guy's broken every bone in his body and I could just, I could just tell him watching him all day. Now, he doesn't. He doesn't. He said that. He's like, trying to say, what did, when, when you broke your pelvis and your ribs and he's like, I, I didn't care. What, what, you know, it, it just the guy is just so let's get this

long to me who a golf swing. Like, how is that impossible? The guy can play golf. He's 70 years old and he is a fucking genius at golf. I mean, I would sit seriously. I mean, just to me to be there and watch somebody like that, hit these shots, 70, 70, whatever how it is, I'm like, this is why I'm alive is to watch stuff like this. I mean I'm seriously, I mean, and he just he's just the greatest and I knew that so I was kind of a long-winded answer, but that's what golf is about to me. It's about the people and you know, it's about it kind of opens you up to other Other things in life in a way that to maybe we were not able in our day-to-day lives when we're all you know Working so hard that we we just can't focus on well, and it also allows you know, Tron and Matt

Like it kind of allows you guys to almost like skip to the front of the line in a relationship like Robbie and Jins Right where it's like you know that they have all this context, you know, they've gone through these incredible, like conversations and experiences together, but like it also kind of allows you to like relate on a similar level when you're all, it's just like secret language, right? That everybody kind of all speaks

and it allows like, Tron, when are you and the 70 year old former motorcycle racer from rural Scotland. Like when do you guys run into each other? Like outside of golf? Yeah, it's crazy. Harry and I, like, we've been DMing on Instagram and I'm like, can I go visit a few places

and golf with them on the East Coast of Scotland or like, like, like, Greg and you and, like, these are like my friends. These are like my buddies now, man. Like, like, like, you know, you and you and on, you and you and like these are like my friend these are like my buddies now man like like like you know you and You and on you and you love you and you and like the you know Like the best the best call for the you said the best golfer on the on the Isle of Aaron He's the the mountain rescue guy that like goes up like when somebody like turns their ankle up on

Goatfell or one of the other mountains like he Didn't he birdie the first four holes at Cory. I mean, it's just like a joke. I mean, seriously. I was Googling on the other day just to like figure out what the mountain rescue teams actually called. It's just called the mountain rescue team. But he had two aces in the same round a few years ago. He was a really good junior player,

like grew up playing against like Robert McIntyre, guys like that. Just one of the most, I would love to play golf with that guy once a week for the rest of my life. Greg helps run the ice cream company on Aaron. It's like some of the best ice cream I've ever had. And but it's like, you know, and all these people, they have their own shit going on, right? Like, and it's, you know, they have their own lives and their own challenges and their own struggles. It was like, you know, they're in the golf course

and you just share this stuff. And it's like, I'm already like, I cannot wait to go back to Aaron with you guys. I'm going to go back to Aaron next summer regardless. Like when the open is a trune, I think I'm just going to go stay at the Corey Hotel and take the ferry over a couple of days in a row to go to Trune and just hang out on Aaron. I've already I've already booked one of the

rooms. You better be better jump on. I figured that we would go together. Yeah. I hope we can. But like, but there's something to be said for and really Jim, like even like the first night we got there, you know, just we kind of said, hey, let's put the cameras away tonight and let you and Robbie reminisce and, you know, kind of get back. There's a deleted scene where Robbie talks about having about five bottles of wine, which I mean, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I noticed that was omitted from the, from the fight. Yeah, where it was kind of like, hey, let's let these guys get back to equilibrium, you know, catch up a little bit. We all got deep into the Scotch and the red wine and then, you know. That'll be on the director's car. So cool because you're sitting there in the sea captain's house and really on like you're like on the beach almost. It's crazy. But yeah, like just through like through every place that we went, whether it's Finley at Iona or

Francis the lady at the tea room there and or yeah or I mean just literally every every person we met on the trip, even McDougal, they're just they're delightful and they're unique and they're they're Scottish so they're you should have been dogcass me you. You have no idea. Oh, totally. Oh, but even that's delightful. I deserve to be dog cussed, right? There's, well, it's funny that you say that, DJ. I want to, the guy that Finley sent to pick us up in the van when we wrecked was this old guy and he had a van

and he lived on the mainland of Moell and he's Finley's mate. And so he picks us up. I don't want to piss him off. He wasn't at all. No, no, no, he wasn't. No, I'm here in meets. I'm 56 talking about people that are old, but he was probably 60 or 60. And so he picked us up and he was like, God damn, he was cussing under his breath.

He's like, I can't believe I'm having to do this shit. And every and every time I look over him, he'd say that he'd be, he'd be smiling the entire time. He secretly, he secretly enjoyed this entire fiasco. And I've told family like, he's like, yeah, that's the way, yeah, that's, that's right. So, you know, it was funny that he was so upset, but he was really sort of enjoying the fact that he was like helping us flag down buses and stuff. It's just what I love about Scotland too. All these people, it's real. There's nothing. They're not putting on airs. They're not trying to kiss your ass to get tourists dollars. Like they're direct to the point. They're gruff at times. They're real. And I think there's

something to be said too of like whether it's, I've noticed that the last three or four times I've been to Scotland, like the cuisine, like the restaurants seem to be getting better. The, like, I think Scots are getting a better sense of themselves. And like, they've been beaten down like you said for so long, Jim. And it's like, they've, you know, the local seafood and the ingredients and the vegetables and all that are so good. The, like, these beaches are great. Like it's just like, man, you guys have an amazing place here, just, you know, and a lot of these little towns

have been shrinking for so long. And I feel like some of it's kind of, now that's kind of arrested. And it's like, all right, like Scotland is, is on the come up, man, it's the best. Well, they've embraced the local, like you say with the restaurants, they've embraced the local culture of it. And when we went to lock fine or ears can open.

This is stuff that came out of the ocean that morning. I mean, it's just you cannot. And you, I know, Tron, you're a foodie and you can't beat the seafood there. It's just ridiculous how good it is. And they've embraced that rightfully. And to me, it's a great, I know we're talking about golf, but it's also a great culinary destination too. If that's what you want to do. Well, I know you guys were talking about kind of return trips and going back, Jim. I know you've already been back.

You went with your wife. I wanted to ask you about her a little bit. So she's obviously, she's not in the film. I know she's pretty soft-spoken. And what's her background kind of, I guess, with golf? Let me start there just because we're talking about all these great things in this shared language. And oh my god, golf is like, it helps you understand people.

How deep into it is she? And is that, you know, if she's not that into it, has it been difficult to kind of share this part of your life and really have you, you know, like explain why this stuff has meant so much to you? Well, she understands golf. She obviously went to a lot of Jordan's tournaments with me and watched a lot of those and she enjoyed that.

She doesn't play, she's never played, but you know she'll watch the Masters or the Open or Championship and understands and has her favorites. I think she loves Roy and like most women do and she likes, she likes, she likes Phil. Now though she's sourd on him a bit now. Like a lot of us have, but she knows all the big players. So, you know, when I'm watching golf on the Sunday, you know, like we all do and we all sort of text or post on Twitter and stuff,

she'll come in and watch some of it. Now, the one that she loves the most honestly every time she walks in when I'm watching whatever tournament it is. The first thing she always says is how's Jordan's faith doing. I mean, every single time how is Jordan's faith? We many get on the podcast. Yeah, and I'm like, well, he's there, but he kind of blew up, but he's, you know, and that's her first question. And that's her, that's actually her favorite player. I put Rory as her second, but she had never been, and of course, I've been 15 times now. And she's just not a big traveler, but I'm, you know, after this last trip, and I honestly, the reason I decided to go back again was to play the Iona Open.

I'm writing a story for Link's Diary about Iona, and I wanted it to include the Open, which was just, Tron, I know you'll do it at some point. You've got to do it, it's just, you'll love it, you'll love everything about it. But that's why I ultimately decided to do it was for this story. And I said, look, you've got to go with me.

You've never been. And she was a little hesitant. And she's traveled in the US, but she's never done all this travel overseas like I've done. And I think she had a great time. I mean, honestly, I don't know it was her favorite place that we went. She told me that she would, she would live there if she could, which I would too. That would be probably third or fourth on my list, but they're all, it's not a big difference

between the rankings, but now she, look, she, she, she understands that she, she was a big, obviously, we, a lot of our lives we dedicated to Fallen Jordan around. And you know, when he, when they won the state championship in 2015, she was right there. And I think women are a little bit more pragmatic about golf disasters than men are. I mean, watching Jordan was an up and down thing and he was such a good player, but if something would go wrong,

I'd be like, oh my God, you know, it's over. And she'd be like, no, he'll be fine. I mean, I think women are a little bit more realistic about what can happen than we are. I think we jumped a little bit, sometimes the worst case scenario. But she now, she had a great time time and I would put down, she loved a denierity. Iona, Aaron was up there. You know, we spent my God

of Toronto. I mean, Iona, Iona, finally invited us to his house with his, all his college friends. We spent a whole evening there that cooked for us. It was just like the big chill or something. It was just it was perfect. And then we went to Aaron and Greg McCray and Pam and his their daughter Eva, they invited us to their house and we sat in their back garden looking out at over the bay. And And look, I would put it, we haven't really talked about it other than she said she had a great time, but I would imagine that it was one of the best trips she's ever had. And I think going to Scotland can be overwhelming because you see this stuff,

you leave the airport and you start driving out of town. And you start seeing these things and they don't look realistic. And I think I'd go back to when we were on mall and I was sort of, or Tron was driving that day. I was in the past. Yes, I was. Get on the record. And yes.

And every, every time they mad or drawn, they'd be like, this is ridiculous. It's just not even real. I mean, it can be overwhelming when you've never been, but no, she had a great time. I mean, I'm glad she finally got to go and God willing, I'll be back. And for the open,

well, I've got tickets for the open at Trune already for the Wednesday and Thursday. And I've had a bunch of members invite me. So I'm hoping that we can we can meet up on Aaron and do what Tron's talking about and go over. But yeah, it was it was great. And she loved it. And I'm glad that she finally got together. Cool to like I loved after our trip, kind of the perfect analogy for you, I guess, is after our trip, like Matt flew home,

you need to go to Taylor Swift concert, Matt. And then I kind of watched the kids pull my wife back to Taylor Swift. She went to the Yoke. And then I flew home, our flew to California. And then Patty took the ferry back to Northern Ireland and Jim just keeps going. He goes to Port Patrick and Presbyc C. Nicholas

and you know, and then to the old, the old firm game as well, which I'd love to hear about like what you did after, you know, after we left and the trip going for you. Well, yeah, I took you to the ferry and brought it. I drove you up and it was honestly, it was emotional for me to be quite honest. I'm sure you remember it, but I put you on the ferry there. Greg actually came down and said, and taught to me after I dropped you off and I. I went up to the corset broaddock and walked around and while I was standing on about the third or fourth green, I saw the ferry leaving.

I've got a good photo of it and I'm like, Trond's on that ferry. He's gone. He's trying to get to wherever you were going to. I think LA Country Club or something like that, which is crazy. That's a whole other way. To fly from, to get from Brodick to LA Country Club. I don't even know how you get there.

There's a couple of my favorite things we've talked about this in a couple of, Trond I would say your your, uh, a hoi lake to sand hills was probably up there on this, uh, this spectrum. But there's a couple of things where you could realize like, you know what? I might be the first person to humanity that's ever made, that's ever made this trip for boy to deploy. I think Trot's got about six of those two as name. I think that, and that's a great thing to claim. I mean, I often say, I've got to be the only person from Alabama that's played. I was still a golf club or something.

I do that a lot. So it's a, I look, I love claiming that stuff. But so, you know, I saw Tron leave and, you know, we had such a good time. And I was, I did, I walked the entire course at Broadwick. And I was leaving the next to go to, I was going across and play Preswick St. Nicholas for the first time, which my good friend, Chris McBride, who's a caddy at Preswick for 40 years, who I've written about a lot, is in the book and I've

written about him for Link's diary, just a genius and he had set it up for me because he kept telling me Jim you know you've played press for 20 times you've got to play St. Nicholas it was old times club and I went there and the God Almighty the people were so nice to me I just it was so much fun and I went from I was by myself I went from there to Port Patrick which was down the coast I went by down the that part I went from, I was by myself. I went from there to Port Patrick, which is down the coast. I went by, down the, that part, I went by Turnberry, stopped at Turnberry, which I've written a story about Turnberry for the next link's diary, and I wanted to go out and walk some of the holes of Turnberry. I've written a story about the, I've actually written a story about the 2009 open.

I've written a story about the, I've actually written a story about the 2009 open. It's gonna be in the next link, Stary, and I interviewed Matt Goggin who played with Tom who was watching the last day. And I wanted to get Matt's perspective on what it was like to play with Tom that last day and what he saw. But I, it was great because I got to do that. I walked several of the holes and then I went down to Port Patrick and then I went up to a little course. I went to a course called

Saint Medan. It was a synon hole course that may have had 18 blind shots on it. Every shot was blind. It was just, it was just like everything I love. So that's what I did. And I'm always trying to find some of these places. And whenever I go over, I've got to go with at least finding two of the places I've never been. And you know, Scotland has 520 golf courses. And I think I've played 140 of them. I mean, it's just kind of ridiculous for a country. You know, the country is the size of probably South Carolina or something like that. And it's just golf course after golf course. And they're all in their own way

interesting. And so I did do that. And I wound up meeting some more great people and winding that back at Glasgow Airport and flying home. You went to the game too. Oh, yes, the old firm. That's what I've left out here. So Chris, my friend at my caddy and my friend at Presswick, I was going to play Presswick the day after St. Nicholas. I'd been planning this and Chris sent me a message. my friend at Presswick. I was gonna play Presswick the day after St. Nicholas.

I'd been planning this and Chris sent me a message. He said, Jim, I've got some bad news. And he was like, I thought somebody had died. And he said, the old firm game is the day that you wanna play Presswick. And he said, look, you're a good friend and I will miss the game in casual I just ask real quick what the hell is the old firm game I don't know what this is it it is Celtic versus Rangers in Scotland it's it's

sport we talking about like football it's like hurling or it's good blood sugar have you ever have you ever heard of DJ have you ever heard of out the iron bow? I have heard that yes, okay, multiply that by about 25 and you've got the other firm game So Chris is like you moveable can't can't miss it. It's it can't yeah, you know I will caddy for you, but he said I'm gonna I can't I've got tickets He said I'll take you to the game. I'll let you have my wife's ticket. And I'm like, I can't make this man miss this game. And so I'm like, yeah. And the other part of me is like, God,

this is gonna be the greatest experience of my entire life. So we went, so I played Nick, St. Nicholas, and I was at the hotel in Chris, and I'll pick you up. I'll be in my friend, I'll pick you up at seven o'clock and The game was it. I think it too. They've moved them up because like to to keep people out of the bars, right? Like they they move them up because they keep people out of the pub. So He picked me up at seven and we go to the pub, the local pub, the Celtic pub in the air. We get in there like 730 and the guys are just knocking back, Guinness's and Jameson, just like into the world at 730 in the morning. And I'm like, whatever I've gotten into and

Chris was just laughing and I loved every single second of it. I love sports, I love the passion of sports. And so we, I'm at all of Chris' friends. This was their Celtic club and air. And so we get on a bus to go to the stadium. And I told Chris, I said, and what's going to happen? Am I going to get killed with this thing? He's like, no, no.

He said, it'll be fine. He said, the Celtic fans never see the Rangers fans. I've got them completely segregated. Once out of the stadiums, Rangers, once out of his Celtic. And he was right. We pulled up and you never see the other fans are completely segregated. All the pubs were closed because they don't want people to drink. But Chris is like, there's a, there's a, what do they call him over there? It was a grocery store, but he said, there's a grocery store about three blocks that I know will sell us beer. It's so, he said, let's get, we walked up there and got it like a six pack of tenants and came back and we went into the game and it was such a spectacle, guys. I mean, they stand up the entire time. They sing songs the entire time.

Celtic played, honestly, Rangers outplayed Celtic that day, but Celtic had the one, and I'm not an expert, although I do like watching soccer, I have to admit, and I've gotten a little bit for the nuances of it, but they had one trip where they were, it was all set and they actually made their goal. Rangers had like 25 chances and they just missed every single one of them. But so wound up wanting nothing. And I'm so happy I did that. I've never been to anything else like it. There are troubles, there are bitter enemies,

more so than Alabama and Auburn. And I'm just, I admire people that are so passionate about something. And so, I, and Chris invited me back to come, I may go to another one. I mean, I just, I've gotten the Scottish primarily going, I've ordered on, I've watched it on, whatever I've ordered on, I've got it now and I've watched, you know,

Inverness and, you know, some of the other teams. And if you give yourself, I used to be skeptical about the sport when I was younger. I'm like, what are they doing? You know, but there's an art to it. And if you watch it in a way when you're, you got to open mine, there's such an art to it, and if you watch it in a way when you've got to open mine, there's such an art to how they move the ball. So I've become a fan of that, which I never thought I would have.

But it was one of the greatest days of my life. Chris was so great, and we got back that night, the Celtic at one. We went back to the pub and of course they were just going fucking nuts. I mean they were just like laid out on the ground in this place, these drinking shots, just screaming, yelling, singing. And I'm like, this is how we should live our lives. It's the way that these people enjoy their life and they work, but they've got this thing that they love. I got to say, I mean, I've all these trips, I mean, having been able to do that, I'm so

glad I did it. And I've got a lot of friends, like Finley's a big child, you know, because he gave me a Ranger Scarfie. He's a Ranger's man, Greg's a ranger's man. And so I'm sympathetic to both sides and I'm not going to take a side, but the spectacle of that game is worth. If you have a chance to get it on, I don't even know what I've got it on YouTube TV or something, but if you have a chance to get it, it's fun. It's really fun. Like Super Smarty, Jim, to not pick a side. Exactly.

Now, I hope they all play hard. I hope they all play hard. I hope they all play hard. Well, which is probably start landing the plane here as you're starting to throw out the Alabama and Auburn stuff. You know, I don't want you in math to come to blows, but I think a couple of other things

I wanted to get at for sure. So the films out there now, well, the book has been out there for quite a few years. I think what's been your reaction to the story being out there and I'm sure you've gotten a million emails from people and people asking you about to, you know, all kinds of different things. I mean, what's it been like for that to be very public for you? It's interesting. I have gotten hundreds, if not thousands

of emails and DMs and messages from people about the book. It actually started with the golfers journal story that I wrote that was kind of a, I would, I would always call it sort of an outline of the book. And I got hundreds of messages about that. Still get them about that. It's kind of a cliff notes version of the book. If people aren't able to, you know, read for three or four days, they can, they can read the short version of it. So that was kind of how it started, but when the book came out, I just started getting emails and messages in these long, long, long emails from people. And I've got to say, DJ, it sort of falls into three categories. And I'm happy about all of this, but number one, unfortunately, it's people that have had a similar thing

happen to them. Their son is their daughter or their brother has died from an accidental drug overdose, which is a huge, huge problem in this country. And they are just like, do you know, I read the book, this has given me so much. It's, I didn't know that somebody felt the same way I did. Thank you for writing this, thank you for being public about it. And I've gotten hundreds of those and some of them are just so horrific, but I always respond and it takes a while. I hope I haven't missed people, but I've gotten a ton of those and a lot of those. The second sort of category is from people that have young children and they're like, Jim, I've read this.

I've really thought about how I'm living my life and how I want to be there for my children and what I want to do with my children and how important they are. And it just made me it's made me think about that and how I want to bring up my children and that makes me really happy because I wanted that to be part of the book I want people to see. How precious it is that you have a family and you have children and what you have to do to help them and try to help them. And so that's the second. And then the third one, which I'm really, really happy about too, and this is honestly, this is it. I've gotten this one as much as any of the other ones. It's people like Jim, I read this book, I want to take the exact same trip you did, to Scotland. Can you help me plan a trip? Or I want to, I want to play it out of the courses you played. What do I need to do? Or where do I need to go and, um,

Campbelltown? Or where do I need to go and, um, open? I get those at least five to 10 a week and I try to respond to all of them and I know you guys know this I'm nothing on the level of what you guys much much get from people but it's hard to respond to everybody but you try the best you can especially people that have taken the time to buy your book in order you feel almost obligated to like, I've got to help this person. And I get those, I mean, I got one yesterday, I'm going to, my wife and I want to go to can tire, what do I need to do?

Where should I go? And I love doing that. I've done, I don't know, how many I tend to raise for people where I've just done it and said, this is what you should do and people have done it I get and then they come back and send me messages and say this is perfect It was exactly what I thought it would be it was such a great thrill. So that's kind of the three categories. I just You know the one where you know people have had the similar just as an astra and then

people that are thinking about theirra and then people that are thinking about their family and then people that are just and I wanted I wanted this book to showcase or talk about my love of Scotland and the people of Scotland and I'm so happy that it's been able to do that because I didn't want it it's a terrible story and I didn't want it to just be about that. And it's not just about that. It's got humor in it. I think Tron will agree. The humor is the way that we deal with things in life.

And throughout the book, I try to have insert humor and which I'm so happy you guys did in the film too. Because life is just a lot of different things. And unless we can laugh at things, we can't make it. So, kind of a long-winded answer, but that's kind of the reaction. It's been kind of a three-fold reaction. And I still hope that people will buy this book. And, you know, it's, we still less than a year since it came out.

And, you know, we're still hoping to get it out to a lot more people. So, but that's it, DJ. Well, Tron, I think on that note, it's, I wanted to ask you about this, but the itinerary stuff is very interesting, right? When it's like, hey, you want to highlight these places. But part of the reason that they are, what they are, is that they feel so remote and they feel so isolated.

And I mean, there's probably a delicate balance there, right? It's like, what does that feel like when you're, when you're there? Is there any kind of like, hey, maybe I don't post this photo kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I felt like that a few times when I was on air and like, we didn't even get like sunny weather. I was like, man, this might be my favorite place in the world.

Like, and selfishly, I don't really want to tell people about it because it's that cool and you don't want to spoil it. I think there's something to be said for, we took this trip in the shoulder season. So we took this trip in late April, same thing. And a lot of people reach out and, you know, I always try to tell them, hey, put your own spin on it. And there's three or four ideas, but big deeper than the usual suspects.

Put your own spin on the trip and get on Google Earth and, you know, be curious about something and, you know, kind of let that curiosity take over. But part of the time that you can really do that, I think is in like, you know, March, April, May, when the weather may not be, it's Scotland, right? You're gonna get, probably gonna get shitty weather at some point on the trip, which to me, I like that. I appreciate that. We almost had too good a weather, the first,

maybe two thirds of this trip. And then, same thing with September, October, it's cheaper, it's less crowded, it's easier to get T times all that. But I think part of it too is it's not like these nine or 10 places that we went to Jim's point and to Jim's whole career as a golf rider. There's so many more of these places. I feel the same way about Borora as I do about Cory or Caridale, I feel the same way about Borora as I do about, you know, Corey or Caridale, I feel the same way about, you know, boat of garden as I do. And so there's all these different corners of Scotland. And you know, the West is, there's my first time to the West,

but like, you know, I love the Highlands. I love, you know, even like the interior, you know, going up through like Pitlachery and stuff like that. There's just so many different little pockets of Scotland. And so I think, you know, and then there's the same thing in Northern England. There's the same thing where you went down, you know, kind of that, that Southwest part of Scotland there. There's, there's so many pockets.

There's, there's 20 other courses like we we were next door to macro-handaged dunes and didn't play it just because we wanted to play two rounds at macro-handaged and dig in deeper there. Because Jim says, hey, this is three through eights, the best set of links, holes anywhere in the world. And I would be right there agreeing with you. And don't spread yourself tooth in. Like go dig deep places. And I think what I love about it too is hopefully these places attract the right type of people.

It's not going to be the box checkers or I need to go play the top 100. Like, all right, cool. If that's your thing, then don't go to Dunnavirty. But if you want to go play like really soulful golf, because I think that's the other thing about like, yeah, it's however long. What's done already? 1500 yards or something? Not even. It's done every 5,000 yards. So yeah, 5,000 yards. And like, I would say like the fifth, the fifth and sixth holes are like two of the best part fours I played this year.

Just so like, just so cool or five's even not, I think one is a part three, one is a part four. But like, that's part of the magic. It's like, I can't even tell think one is a part three, one is a part four. But like that's part of the magic. It's like, I can't even tell which ones are part three. Which is also very trod. It's one of the best part fours I've played all year, but it also might be a part three. What else you guys want to get to? Jim, I don't want to take up your, your whole entire afternoon here, but you know, anything else you want to really make sure we, we hit on before we wrap up.

Now, I think this has been great you guys. I mean, you know again I watch the the rough cut of the film and it's just so well done and Matt did such a beautiful job on it And to see Robbie and Greg and you and and George Clark for God said hey George was there I mean my god almighty up. I didn't my God almighty, I know you legend, a legendary figure in a no-ling up. I mean, George shows up at the book signing and just the nicest man him and his wife, I an, or just like the two nicest people you could ever meet. And they drive.

I think we've told the story of the podcast, sorry, real quick, but to just add context to George. He's, of course, the guy that's in the Colin episode of of Taurus sauce. I don't know what is he called Captain General Manager. I don't really know. It's probably been all of the above. It's I'm sure he's going to just general Colin kind of guy. But he maybe one of my favorite interactions I think I've ever had in Jim. It speaks to so much of of what both you and Tron wereon were saying over the last 90 minutes here, but we got there. We played the first two, three, four, five holes at Cullen and we're all just like, our

jaws are on the ground. We're just like, this is the coolest place any of us have ever seen. This is unbelievable. And George was convinced that we were making fun of him. We were putting him on and just like, oh, come on, guys. Like this is like, yeah, no, I know, I know, it's not Mirfield, I know it's not the old course, but like, you know, we like, no, we're like, George, we're being dead serious,

man, this is unbelievable, we haven't ever seen anything like this, and I think after that it was kind of like, oh, all right, I think you guys actually do enjoy kind of the right aspect. That was kind of how I felt, like Jim felt, when we went up to Caridale, I mean, the road up there is why it's like 45 minutes an hour north of Campbell town. And it's like one of the windiest roads I've ever been on. And get up there. Yeah.

We get up there and you know, Jim can kind of tell he's like, he's like, all right, this might be too far a field, even for Tron. And I can tell tell he's like, all right, this might be too far a field even for Tron. And I can tell you were almost like you had a little bit of anxiety there. And it was on the back, you know, it was on the back of the book, signing and Macerhan and she kind of this, you know, first part of the trip, we had a lot more kind of be here at this time and scheduled out and all that. And we end up, you know, just after the first hole. I'd flown the drone a little bit know, just after the first hole, I'd flown the drone a little

bit beforehand. And then after the first hole, like, this is, this is one of the coolest pieces of land I've ever seen before. And I think that might be my favorite golf course from the entire trip. But it was, it was shades of that George Lark of like, all right, he's fucking with me. Like, I'm not saying, no, he's fucking with me. Like, this is it. Like, this is it. You know, I was like, no, not. This is total awareness. Yeah. The fact, yeah, I mean, I knew how much you, I could tell from the beginning, after we get up to the top on that, for the first part three, the whole, the support three, which

is straight uphill, and you get up on the top and, you can see Aaron and you can see the sound of Kim Brannon and Trump was like, this is not, he was just, I could look at his face and just see how excited he was which made it so much fun for me. And you know, again, these people like George and you know my friend William from Glasgow that came down, who's a member of Aberfall, and came all the way down for this book signing for no reason at all other than he's bought 10 copies of the book. And it's given it to his friends.

I'm just lucky that I've been able to do stuff like this and been able to meet you guys, you know, through really the luck of the draw and the fact that I got paired with Tron and an tournament six or seven years ago and we sort of all became friends and, you know, it's just a great thing about golf. It's the way things work and I'm happy that it's happened. And I really appreciate you guys doing this and because I do want to spoke to get out to more people. I do think it still has a wider audience to reach that even nine or 10 months into it. And so I'm going to keep trying to promote it.

And because I do want, again, those, all three of those categories that I mentioned are valid for people to, to take something away from this. And so that's what I want to do. And I can't thank you enough. And, you know, Matt and Patty should be mentioned to, at times, I forgot he was only 23 or 24. At times, I was like, okay, this guy was way beyond his years, but then there were a time of, okay, he's not. He's 23 years old. He's 23 years old. He's 23 years old. He doesn't. But it was kind of an interesting that kind of thing. He was actually, and I rode down with him from him from Oben to Aaron and we got in the car and his brakes were like grinding. We got out of open.

You have a flat tire and over. Yeah. And so we get barely barely out of open his brakes are like just like the brake pads. There's like nothing there. And I'm so patty if you heard this, yeah, I'm going to fix it. I'm like, we're not going to make it to open. And so the whole time, and you know that road down from open, drawn to Aaron, is just about as wide as anything.

But we made it, and he's a great guy. And he's so fun. How much you guys have brought in people to help and become part of your group and do stuff like this. And he's got a beautiful eye. When we were at Maakri Bay, he was so excited. He took so many photos. I was watching him out of the corner of my eye. He could just see how cool it was and how weird some of these holes were. So look, it's one of the highlights of my life.

And I hope we can, you know, again, you know, I'm looking forward to the true next summer. And maybe we can figure something out and do a little bit more. But this has been great you guys. And thank you for that. We gotta get back to Gia too, that we're trying to get to Gia and ask her name.

Got all those places Jim wanted to talk Macrihanish so quick we didn't talk too much about Macrihanish just like what's has it changed since you first went there or is it still you know other than the clubhouse the bus chain they've got a new clubhouse is it a I think yeah it's a fair enough question. It's changed a little bit. The clubhouse is so much different. The old clubhouse was an old house that was sitting in the same spot that the members had renovated and turned it into a clubhouse and it was just like this perfect sort of clubhouse and it was totally different than what they have now and I'm not saying what they have now is bad It's beautiful. It's like as an architect, you know, it's great

But it's that's a little different. It's not as it's not as rustic as it was in 94. It's it's a little bit more It's a little different, but it's still great. I know, no complaints, but it's honestly back in 94, Mac or Hannes was not a whole lot different than going to the Navi, maybe just slightly. The conditioning perspective. Now the feeling you got. The feeling of it.

Yeah, it's a little bit more, you know, it's just a little different, but I don't have any problem with any of it. It's just, it's just slightly different than it was. I mean, there's eight, what's your favorite hole? Seven. More. Seven is like one of the greatest blonde holes on the planet. You hit that drive out there and then you're just like looking at this massive dune and you don't know where to go and I actually I think I may have written about this. I think that's probably the greatest, it may be the greatest line hole in the world. Our respect to presswick and Brawl County down in Lansch.

It's just a classic golf home. It's a really hard golf home too. And then Matt, what kind of not having been there, what's the place that you most look forward to going back to? Well, biggest surprise overall was not golf-related. It was food-related. I first trip to Scotland, I'm like, okay, fish and chips and, you know, fried everything's brown. And the food we had in open made me want to, like, book my trip back there.

Just go explore and eat all the restaurants and take little day trips out here and there. But there's so much, I mean, now that I've gone on the second trip to Scotland, the east side, I do see what you mean. It's a little different. It's not as rustic and the people are a little, they're used to tourists coming through where we were.

It's, I wanna know your story. Like tell me about you because why and how are you here? Kind of thing. Yeah, love to get back down to South End and see Je end and see gravity and go take my clothes with me next time I'm sure I mean Jim next time the the opens at Port Rush We should just run to see captain's house and then get a boat, you know get a get a big you know boat captain Just get there's across the way to there's a there's a speedboat that goes across there that you can that you can rent. So yeah, it can get you guys out of a cigarette cigarette boat cruising across the

Jim one of my favorite stories he told me is the story from Caridale The first or second time he went there. You wrote a letter to the club Caridale, the first or second time you went there, you wrote a letter to the club. Well, you tell that one. Yeah, it was so when Jake and I were going in 2019, I sent a letter to the club because I believe in the formalities of how things are done there. Even in these smaller places, drawn, you'll notice there's formalities, which I respect completely. And so, I had sent a letter and looked, my son and I were going to play on the day, and we're going to be there around 10 o'clock. And yeah, I got a message by, I was an email, I got a message by, of course, the, I got a message back. Of course, they're welcome, no worries.

And so we showed up. I can't remember it was 9 o'clock in the morning or something. And then. You've been there. There was nobody in the parking lot. And it's an honesty box. It's an honesty box. Yeah, so. There actually there was one car, a sort of nice toyota in the parking lot and taking

I pulled up and this lady walks out of the clubhouse and she says, are you are you Mr. Hartzell? And I said, yes. And she said, well, we wanted to welcome you here to Carole. And there was nobody on the golf course, meaning everybody. And she said, you know, I just want to let you know. That the committee has met. And we have, we have decided to give you the honor of playing the metal teas today. And I said, I can't thank you. I really appreciate that.

I, you know, thank you for doing that. And she was so nice. And I love, I'd dearly love the formalities. You know, even it places like minorityarverty and caradel and even out of sale just the little formalities are so or so nice and so we're joking. And honestly, it was a great honor because you the you trying to been out there the

fourth metal the metal tea on the fourth of caradel. I mean that may be the that maybe the tea of the entire world honestly I mean, that may be the, that may be the tea of the entire world, honestly, I mean, it may be the greatest tea in golf. And it's like another 80 yards back from where the other one is. Yeah. So, Jake and I played the medals and I wrote them a letter afterwards thinking I'm for letting us do that. And, you know, I just, you know, it's funny. You and I have talked a lot in the last few years about this.

And when you come back from playing golf over there and you get home, you're depressed because, you know, you know, you know that you're not going to get that. You know that it's just different. And I'm, look, we've got great golf here, and we all are happy to play it. And I'm happy to go to Sweden's, and I love it. And I'm lucky that I've got that close to me. But you're sort of depressed because that sort of,

it's just totally different. We don't have, and there's no way to replicate it. It's just the fact of beating Scotland or Wales or England or even Ireland and you know the way that they view these clubs and the way that they, even these smaller clubs, the way that they, they sort of view them as a framework of their life. It's beautiful to me and I, um, actually my next book is going to be, I've started it, it's going to be about my favorite 18 courses in Scotland. That's a lot of what I'm going to write about is that sort of formality of, and they felt that they needed to grant us that privilege of playing as a metal

tease. And I'm going to tell you, man, I've been at Jake and I, that same trip. We were at Anstrother, which I think, you know, DJ, DJ, you just, you might have just played, which is a course that I dearly, it's actually Jake's favorite golf course in the world. And Jake and I played Anstrother in 2019 before we got to Caradale and we were out early in the morning nobody was out there and we got to like what's the after the it's five I think or six the downhill par three after the one along the beach and we went up that metal tee is so awesome It's a lot way up high looking down and Jake and I went up there and hit and we walked down and the green keeper walked up to us and he said, sir, you do not have the privilege to play the metal tea today.

And I'm so sorry and we were very and he was nice, but he was making a point that he was very stern And we didn't have the privilege to do it. And we were granted that at Caradayl. And a lot of times those metal teas, like Tronett's shiskin, I mean, the fifth that shiskin, that metal tea, dear God Almighty, you got it in the shiskin video. I mean, I saw you looked at tea, you were like, we're going back there.

And Greg, of course, we had one of the members with us and he's like, yeah, we're fine to go back there. But a lot of times those metal teas are just so different. Like the metal tea on the 17th of the Denarity, the hole is completely different. It's way back by the river and you're playing across the fairway. So it is, you know, I would tell people if you do have the ability and you're able to club let you to mix some of them up, it can be a lot of fun. But that was fun because the lady was so formal, but she was so nice. And we were granted that privilege, which I've never but she was so nice and we were granted that privilege, which I've never I've wrote them a letter of thanks

and I will, you know, Caredale is one that I will always, it'll be in my next book, it's one of the 18. And so anyway, yeah, that was a good one. Well, Jim, that feeling of sadness when you get home, I mean, this is a good, you know, kind of jumping off point for, you get that feeling of sadness, but then you get that that hope or that optimism for the next trip. Takes three days, three days. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's it's something where you just steadily it. You just develop an addiction to Scottish golf and to Scotland in general. So for you, like, where, where's next? Like when you got home from, from that trip or from the last trip you took here later this summer, it's like, what course is next for you that you're really itching to get to that you're kicking yourself the event to yet? This is a really good question.

I did, it's funny because the travel, I'm a little bit older than you all, but the travel is difficult getting home and going through all these airports and not having enough time and you get home and you're like, I'm so exhausted, I cannot do this. But then after two or three days, you're like, when am I going again? It takes like three days. So I started thinking about, I started thinking about, and I just, I think, I don't know, I want to go back out to ask her this again, which I have been to, but there's one that I have not been to, that you and I were actually going to go to before the Ferries Fiasco got us. There's one called Barra that is right next to Ascarnish.

That's one I have got to go to. It's a little fairy right over from a lot of boys' Dale at Ascarnish. If you can get the Ferries to line up and I've got to go to Berra, I want to, when I take Jake, Jake's going to go with me next summer for the opening tune. I want to get him to bear, I want to get him to ask her, Nish, that guy get him to I own a, and these are places I've been, but I have honestly, I've been, I want to get to bear, there's a place, well, yes, there's a course called in Shetland, which is like in Norway. I mean, it's like nine hours north of Aberdeen on a ferry called Walze that I want to play. I've always wanted to play. If I could somehow get to Shetland, that's kind of,

that's my last sort of Orkney and Shetland are that's kind of, that's my last sort of Ortony and Shetland are my last sort of white whale, I guess, and I, and they're just, they're even harder than asking us to get to and you just got to have the time to commit to it. But that, that, well, I would say that getting to Shetland and Ortony would be the last two and getting to the Barra. And there's a few, and I love, and you know this, I love the, I love the inland courses as much as the links, the boat of Garden, Lady Bank I've played, I've not played Pit Lockery, which I'd love to do. Full of plays. Yeah. I've not played, there's a couple of inlands that I've played, the Nagels, Kings and Queens, which is, you could have this, they should have this goddess up in there every year

as far as I'm concerned. But there are some inlands that I've, that I still wanna check off. You know, I got down to Port Patrick and St. Medans and Strong Rare, which was another braid course. My God was just brilliant. You would love every minute of it. Yeah, Southern S. I couldn't get to

Germain got sick on the last bit of the trip. I had I had Southern S and how F.O. scheduled and we had to cancel cancel it and she just couldn't do it. So there's a couple of places like that. But I've been to all parts of the country and you know I'm a you know the the Hebrides, Inner and Outer and the Western, the Kintar, what I love the most. But I'm like you. I mean, Brawra, Ghostby, Dornak, Helm's Dell, those places up there, Wic, Ray, you would, if I could get you up to Wic and Ray, you'd probably never come back.

I mean, it's just, there's all these different areas and you just have to, it's hard, you know, because traveling there is not, it takes longer than it does here. It's just different. And so you have to kind of pick and choose. And if you've got 10 days, you know, you're sort of better off trying to concentrate in one area and getting in as much as you can there in my opinion. I mean, I'm trying to just, and I've

done the flying around with my dad. We've gone to Dorne down to Mechrahannis. I had a guy, well Mr. Baxter in fact, when we went that first trip, he asked me where we were going. When we left and I said, well, we're going to drive out to Dorneck and he just looked at me and he said, when we left and I said, we're gonna drive out to Dornock. And he just looked at me and he said, what? And I said, he were driving to Dornock and he said,

well, he said, I've heard of people doing that, but I've never actually done it myself. And he thought we were like flying to the moon or something. They just have a different sense of scale than we do. And they, in gas,

this petro is so expensive. It makes sense. I mean, they just don't, you know, we think nothing of hauling off and driving to landman or. To San Hills or whatever. Because we have a different. It's just different. And so, you know, I, I've got placesah, Shetlands, you know, some of that, you know, I've never played the Art Fan, which I, you know, I'm not a, you know, Art Fan's that one I don't, yeah, you know, exclusive.

Oh, super exclusive. I've never played the one up, Adorno, I've never played the one up by Dorna Schibo Castle, which looks great, but it's very, very exclusive. But you know, it's funny, you know, after all these years, I get a lot of invitations and you know, who knows, but next year, I'm gonna get Jake to really, I wanna focus on Aaron and go into the open of Trune and getting him out to Iona.

If we can get to Barra and ask her, and I would dearly love to do that. So that's kind of my plans for next year. Well, there we go. I'll go out to Barra, and then the other thing I love about you is not only do you have all these courses, there's also like, you know, when you go to ask her, and she you have a pub or a, you know, the, whether the politician restaurant, the politician. Yeah. Which if I got you to the politician, again, I don't think you would have left there. I think you would have just stayed

and said, can I be the general manager or can I bring my family over here? It's just these places are just different than what we have. And I'm jealous, but you go into politician, Robby not had a table and there's somebody playing a fiddle and a bag. And I can't even describe.

I mean, you guys have done it to sit there and have a pint and to talk to people. I'm jealous. And that's the saddest thing to me when I come back and, you know, I'm jealous of that way of life and I miss it a lot, but I look forward to going back and, but yeah, those places, I mean, again, when I, when people ask me about, I always throw in, you gotta go to the politician, you gotta go to Uniroid and have a late afternoon lunch, which we did, Matt and Trump, we all, and it was just like a dream world. We loved it and Francis was so great.

And you know, she didn't want you guys to film her, which I assume that's why you didn't put her on the video, because she was very reluctant to be on camera, but she's such a nice lady and just a brilliant baker. And so yeah, that to me is again, that's a big part of the planning, is finding these kind of off the beaten path places and go in there and spend it in the evening.

Play golf all day, get a, you know, get a taxi to take you to these places. A lot of times you can just walk. Most of the time you can just walk and have a great evening and then do it the next day. Well, I think the coolest part that I keep thinking about is, you know, you say and you, you base so much your trip on Bamberger's book and having these like touchstones and I I think the film you guys all made hopefully does that for a lot of people as well. I hope this is kind of a good landmark, a good guide, guidebook, a good, you know, just kind of historical document of a lot of these places that you're talking about. I'm so proud of what you guys made. And Jim, I'm proud of you for just putting this out there and really trying to help people and trying to bring light to something you love so much.

And it's just it's one of my favorite things we've ever done. So I thank you guys for doing it. Jim, thanks for for the time and for hopping on today. Unless there's anything else, I think we wrap it there. Yeah. Cheers. Yeah, great work. I can't, like this thing is 90% to just your blood,

sweat, and tears as far as putting this together and sifting through some pretty heavy stuff for the last few months on, you know, as far as footage goes. And then also go by the book. People go, go, go. Yeah, absolutely. Go back nine press.com. It's back the number nine press.com. You can get it on Amazon and I think Barnes and Noble and all those other places, but if you can order it directly from back9press.com, that's Amazon takes a pretty big cut of things is, you want to get it. I'm a me I just I just want people to read it. I never got into this to make money. I don't care about that. Although it does help me finance the next book if you can buy some and as the people enjoy it. That would help, but back nine press calm and you've got a lot of great books out. They've just put one out about Seth Rainer's new courses and our Seth Rainer's all of Seth Rainer's courses. Wolfie and Cavaliere. Your buddy, your buddy Wolf,

who y'all have on the office hours who is a character who actually lives about an hour from me. We're going to. Alabama's taking over the park. Hey, look, I'm going to. I'm going to lunch with Michael next week. And so we'll. We'll give you a report from that.

But yeah, I do appreciate what Jim is doing, and you're trying to give a place for golf books, a home, and so yeah, if you can, I'd love for people to order it, and I'm happy to sign books, or do anything people won't really. I just love talking to people and I love talking about Scotland. I love talking about this book and anything I can do to help. So thank you.

Hey, man, Jim, thank you, man. Like, I love you, dude. And it's just, it was, it was the trip of a lifetime. I love you guys. It's one of my favorite trips ever. And I think like I told you, the fair terminal brought, I've just done this champion these courses for 30 years.

And I think, in my mind, you're like the logical successor to you love this kind of stuff. And I think that's why we immediately became friends when we met and So I thank you for highlighting these places which people don't talk about a lot and they're just the soul of golf and Your best and all these are and big who I love dearly is a great man and You know has been great to me and had me on the track for a while a lot and tell him said hello and I will do something again soon.

Yes we will. Jim thank you man. Thanks guys. Give it a big club. Be the right club today. Yes. Be the right club. Be the right club today. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Expect anything different.