No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 757: Edoardo Molinari

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Our Ryder Cup recap content continues with Soly and TC interviewing European assistant captain and analytics guru Edoardo Molinari. We get into his first explorations into golf data and analytics during his own professional career, his experience helping Luke Donald form the partnerships that were so successful in Rome, how he viewed some of the decisions from the American team, the atmosphere in the team room after the heated ending to Saturday's matches and a ton more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying a podcast, Sully here got an interview for you from a couple of weeks ago. My guy TC and I sat down with Eduardo Molinari, who was an assistant captain for the victorious European Ryder Cup team.

We let him glowed a little bit. We picked his brain on how they put the team together, some stories from the team room. Fantastic interview. He was one of my favorite Ryder Cup guests. They're favorite guests ever, if I may say. Favorite guests of the year, definitely. Great storyteller and great insight into how it all worked

without giving too much away. So we really appreciated his time. This episode's brought to you by our friends at Roeback, these guys understand quality. Only one way to describe Roebackback that is best fit, best feel. And that also might describe the European Ryder Cup team, if I may say they were the best fit for Marcos Simone. I hope you guys aren't sick of Ryder Cup content, by the way. We got even more coming, but we're not done with this one. Performance polos from Roeback, they just hit different.

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Performance QZips are fantastic. Nothing beats rocking a rowback QZip for an early round of golf. They're soft. They're stretchy and comfortable and we wear them everywhere. You can use code NLU at rowback.com for a generous 20% off your first order through the end of this week. That's our H O B A C K dot com 20% of polo's Q Zips hoodies and more with code and L U without you for the delay. Here's Eduardo Molinarri. All right, T C is here with me. He decided he wanted to be on this to make sure we put a book in on the on the full Glow Fest as we bring in our guest at Wardo Mollenari TC. I'll let you I'll let you have the floor here to start if you guys want

to have a little celebration of some kind as we go to kick this off. I believe I've eaten as much of my words I possibly can, but I'm always happy to revisit. Well, listen, you know, you know, win with class and that's why we're bringing in Wardo on because I certainly can't win with class. And, you know, kind of someone who I think has had an outsized impact on the European success at Wardo, and, you know, all the other captains said some of your statistical analysis and strategy and everything was a big key to success, a big key to putting the whole team together. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you. Thank you, T.C. and thanks, sorry for having me. It's a pleasure being here. Now, you're two kind.

I think, you know, I obviously helped a little bit, but I have to say that Luke was a MVP, I think, of the week. He was unbelievable from the first day he got the job all the way to Monday morning when we left the room back home. He was incredible, and obviously the players were, some of them were outstanding, and we'll talk about it. So if you go back, I believe some people, maybe, on this show, may have got a little carried away. If we go back to Wistling Straits and looking at future rider cups

in there. I won't name any names on that. But at some point, and listen, I've talked privately with some team members from Europe as well that voice some of the same concerns coming off of Wistling Straits. But at what point for you did it, things start to look like, hey, you know, things are on the up and up with Europe and we have a really good chance to not only just beat the Americans in Rome but also beat them pretty soundly. Well, I would say sometime after the Masters this year, it's where things started to change dramatically.

Like I was always keeping an eye, not only on my numbers numbers but like on data golf at the live prediction and I think beginning of March we basically had very little chance I think it was like a 65% US and 20 something Europe 25 30 maybe less than 30% Europe and then all of a sudden this this, you know, chance is started to shrink. But more than that, it was like we had John winning the Masters, we had Fitsi winning the week after, then Victor caught fire in the summer. And all of a sudden, we thought, oh, here, you know, we might have a chance. I think some of the players from Europe, I mean, it happens every four years,

I don't know why it's difficult to explain, but like, anytime there's a rider coming to Europe, there's always some European players that catch his fire in the summer and starts to play really well. Like, it happened in Paris with Francesco. It happened this time with, obviously, Victor had the best summer of his life so far.

I don't know, there's something different. And even a small thing that happened, when Victor wins, when Victor won BMW, I text him literally 10 minutes after he won, just because I work with him as well privately. So I just text him saying, well done, congratulations. And he replied after an hour. And all he said was, Rome is going to be so much fun. Like he just won the biggest event of his

career. And he's already thinking about Rome. He just doesn't give a shit about BMW, about the FedEx, about the playoffs. He just wanted to be part of a winning either captain. And I think that's that says a lot. Was it about getting paid for the rider cup? Was that what he was messaging about? I'm sure that's what it was. No, we had none of that. Actually, I think I would say I don't know exactly what happened on the U.S. side, but I would say 12 out of 12 guys in our team would happily pay a lot of money to be part of. And you know, on that topic, I mean, we had obviously Olaza Barles, one of the vice captains

and Olaza Barles basically lives and dies for the Ryder Cup. And he was telling us some save stories at night, one evening. And then eventually, he almost started crying. And we said, Jose, what's wrong? And he said, well, you guys don't realize how much this means to me because he said, I would happily give one major back to be able to play in one more right-of-a. And we were like, ah, say that again.

And he said, yeah, yeah, I would very happily give a major back to play one more right-of-a. And he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is how much it means to him. So it's, yeah, special. Gosh, if this keeps accumulating, I'm gonna end up flipping to Europe, like, ready for Europe.

I can't, I can't, I can't. I can't, I can't. It's a mountain, a mountain of evidence that's in at this point, TC. Going back to kind of the lead up to this rider cup, like with Henrik losing the captain, see Luke getting in the captain. Were you an assistant captain from the start or did Luke call your number after he got appointed and say,

hey, I'm putting my team together? Well, a bit of both because I had spoken with Henrik when he was a soon after he was named captain because he wanted me to take charge of this like analytics and start side of things Which I happily did and then a few weeks later Henry asked me if I wanted to be a vice captain on top of it because he said it would be easier with the communication in the team and just being more involved You know behind the scenes which I was very happy with. And then when everything happened in the summer, then Luke was named Captain and then he called me the very next morning.

I remember I was in the UK. He was in back in Florida. I must have been like probably 5am for him. And we just chatted for about half an hour, 45 minutes. I explained to him what I was doing for Hendrick. And I said, if you want me to keep going great, if not, you can find someone else, no problem at all. And stay the way, say no, absolutely,

I want you to keep going and to be a vice captain. So I was very happy to keep going with you. And then your background, just from an analytics perspective, is it just something that you've gotten into naturally as your career progressed or or have you kind of always had this bent? Well, I started engineering in college in Italy, so I always had interesting numbers and stats and probabilities and all that stuff. And before turning through, I thought if I could keep stats about my game, it would be very

easy to understand where I need to improve, where I'm good enough, what I can do better in my game. So I developed my own kind of system to keep track of everything. And then obviously initially it was very, very simple. And then it just became more and more complex. And then at the end of 2019, just before COVID hit, a few guys on the European tour asked me if I could help them with

stats, analytics, just understanding the game a bit better. So then I was in a way lucky that COVID hit because then during COVID I was able to basically build a brand new platform. I was doing all the coding and everything. And then after COVID, FITi was the first one that called me back and said, if it's available to other players than yourself, I would like to give it a go and start with it. And he started using it, he loved it, he gave me a lot of good feedback and input on how to make it better and better. And then he started to talk very highly about me about what I was doing, so more players came on board, he started to play I was doing. So more players came on board. He started to play really well.

And then more players came on board. And then it became quite a big thing. So I'm a huge fan of strokes gain. I'm a huge fan of analytics. I'm a couple of part question here and saying, I'm curious as to what your data looks like compared to what we see publicly, right? I mean, you mentioned using data golf. I use data golf somehow.

I thought the US was going to win somehow. You thought Europe was going to win. And we're looking at the same information and wondering how we got there. But you're kind of there are inherently. I think there are some flaws in strokes gained, like talking about course difficulty. And you know, if you're hitting more greens in regulation,

chances are you might be leaving yourself more difficult puts than people that are missing and could chip to uphill spots and all kinds of, I'm kind of starting to fill in the blanks for you here, but I'm wondering what what are flaws in information that we see and how do you address that or do you address that in kind of analytics that you do? Yeah, so there's a there's a few missing things in in short link. I would say the biggest one are you don't know where the players are aiming both of the T and into the greens so if there's a sometimes there's a back left pin even when you watch on TV there's a back left

pin and some players stiff sit and he's probably he was probably going three four years right and if you are short of it he actually pulled it and got lucky got away with it so that's one thing that we track as well and which you cannot see I'm shortening obviously. Other things is obviously a wind direction. And the main one would be the brakes on the parts, where you missed the parts, why you missed the parts. So did you miss a part because it was a bad stroke, bad speed, you overread the line,

underread the line, whatever it was. So there's like, basically we get a lot of information from shortening and then we add additional layers depending what each player wants to have, wants to look at. Yeah, you put everything together. You can, you know, some of the things we look at is, for example, I had a chat earlier this year with Viktor Houghland and with his coach, Joe Mayo and Joe was saying, I think there's something wrong in Victor's approach play. And I said to him, well, the only thing wrong is that Victor is just way too aggressive.

Because basically, his dispersion is actually pretty small, relative to his own targets. But then he fires at the pin pretty much every time he's on the fairway in position. And in the long run, he's going to hit a few more shots close, but then he's also going to be sure-sided a lot more often. And then on top of that, his short game wasn't exactly the best. So he was living in self-difficult up and down with a bad short game. It was just a deadly combination. And so that victory improved his short game a lot. But even now sometimes we just have a chat and he says,

oh yeah, I was trying to, you know, playing boring golf and I remember before the, well after the, after the FedEx, after the last round of the FedEx, I think in the press conference, he mentioned that he was just trying to play boring golf and I was like almost in tears like, you know, six months before he was like, well, if I have a seven iron from the middle of the fairway and the flag is three from the edge, I'm just going straight at the pin and I'm like, I'm not sure that's the best way. From a data set perspective, does the DP World Tour run off of shot link as well? Or is it a modified version? We have a similar system which is called IMG Arena,

which is basically the same, is a little bit less accurate on the greens. So then most of the times the players will edit their batting distances, but everything else is basically the same information. On that front, you're basically importing two different data sets for a lot of your players versus on the US side,

they just have data set because it's coming straight to the shot. Yeah, exactly. So it's very similar to what Data Golf does. We just do it a little bit more in depth. And then you have to adjust as they do for strength of field and stuff like that because when you compare, someone gaining two shots on the field in Europe

is not the same as someone gaining two shots on the field that any PGA to event. Yeah. So it's always made that very clear. That's the last thing. The foundation that nobody's arguing with me anymore, all of a sudden. No, no, no, it's it's very, you know, it's one of the things that sometimes I have an argument with the people saying, oh, the war ranking points, we should get more war ranking points in Europe. And it's like, well, when you look at the strength of field, we should get more war ranking points in Europe. And it's like, well, when you look at the strength of field, it's perfect the way it is now. It's, we've been, you know,

we've been, we've been spoiled for many, many years, to be honest, because we were playing some events in the Middle East and the beginning of the year where we will have three of the top five players in the world and the winner get 50 points. Man, I thought this would feel better getting the validation on this. This was a campaign of mine for years

and I thought this validation would feel better than it does. But so going into the Ryder Cup and I guess, again, multi-part question here, but as your team has started to take shape, you probably have an idea of who some of the captain's picks are, but I would guess even up till the last month or so, the last couple of picks were not, you know, finalized, finalized. But as you're, you know, assembling those last picks, looking at the profile of your team, are you starting to think about how you're going to set this course up?

Is that like part of the decision of taking a Ludwig O'Bare and Nikolai Hoigard going into saying like, all right, this coincides with, hey, we just took a visit there or we're going to take a visit there and players don't like the rough. We're going to end up cutting the rough down. Do they these guys fit that profile? That's a pretty iterative process, but when did that start and kind of when did you guys start thinking about how you want to set up the

course and matching the team to that? That's like the question. How my brain works with the rider cup at Wordo. I have to brain dump on you. So start with Ludwig. Ludwig was always going to be a pick. Come on. Ludwig is obviously Ludwig. He came to play the last two events in Europe

and he finished top five in check. And I would say, even after Chev, before he won in Kran, he was probably nailed on in team. He didn't know and he played with Nico Colzerz and myself in Kran the first two rounds, the last counting event. And we thought we were're gonna play with him and put him under pressure. And it was five under through six on day one, missing two 10 footers in the first six hours. And I looked at Nico Corsez walking off the six green

and I said Nico, I think is a bit uncomfortable this morning. We need to give him a chat. So no, I mean, Ludwig was crazy. But going back to the Corsez app is something that we started looking at more than a year ago. Obviously, you know, out of the 12 players, you know, probably 6 or 7 already a year before, unless something dramatic happens, like an injury or a sudden loss of four. So we had our six seven guys, and we also knew six seven guys from the US team. So then you start looking at possible options for the course set up based on those guys, which are most likely the guys that would play

more matches as well. Some are like Rory, John, Victor, not only you know they're in the Ryder Cup, but they're not gonna play two or three matches. They're gonna play four or five, most likely. So then we started to you know have a look at that and then we had like again similar to data. We had like percentages of the players making the team. So you have like a weighted average for the whole team where someone like you know Ludwig maybe a year ago he was at five percent of making the team and someone like Rory was at 99% of making the team.

So then you create a profile for the US, a profile for the Europe, and all of a sudden magic happens and we find out that we were slightly better outside, once I left five years, which is the magic number. So then we started, well I think that was one of the biggest things we tried to make a driving contest and like a mid-long iron contest. I mean, Rory almost spilled the beans a month before because he talked with Lou, he talked with myself and he said, oh yeah, if it's a driving and mid-iron contest, we have a good chance and we thought, yeah.

He told me that and I was like, is he messing with me? Is he trying to get me to float this information so they can flip it on us. Is this game'smanship here? No, it was accurate. The funny thing is the other day when I was flying here to Madrid, I sent a small report to look like after post-match analysis and of all the shots we gained

over the US, 92% were either of the T or between 175 and 225 years to the pin. So I thought we patted better, I thought we'd chip better, I thought, but actually the biggest difference was literally from the T all the way to 175. What a validation. Yeah, I mean, we expect it to be better. I would have never guessed we were going to gain so much on that distance range. But I guess we just, you know, at the end of the day, our guys play some unbelievable

golf, especially our top guys were like in top form. And I mean, when you think that John Rory and Victor, they won 10 and a half points out of 14 matches and they never played together once. So that's, that's a lot. Yeah. A quick break here to check them with our friends at NoLang Up. That's right. The NoLang Up Pro Shop is buying up ad space. And if you haven't bought from us in the past, it is a great time to take a spin around the shop store.noLangUp.com. We got new Holderness and Born Fall apparel.

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For a free NLU towel with your first purchase, offer ends October 31st and don't worry, we will respect your inbox with our email volume back to Eduardo Mollenari. So from a set up perspective, how do you take those learnings or those kind of, hey, this is our general theme. We want to make sure that they're hitting. Are you looking at hold distances or you pinching certain things in? Yeah, there's a few things we play the obviously we play the Italian open there three times.

So every year we were trying to change the height of the rough, maybe change a couple of these, and then we were looking at where the players were gaining most of their shots. And when we played in May this year, so four months ago, at the end of the week we had to look at the numbers and all of a sudden, all the players that played well, they gained more of their shots outside 175 yards. So we thought, right, this is the setup we want.

And so we tried to replicate the problem is in the summer in Rome it can be very hot. So we just asked the green keepers not to cut anything down until we went for the practice trip. And we went for the practice even it was way over the top. Like the rough was, I have some pictures where the rough was like, knee high, literally just off the fairway. But it was, I mean, it was never gonna be like that. It's just that, you know, we wanted to have a look.

I mean, you can always cut it down. You cannot make it go. I was, I was, I was, I played it two days after the Italian open finish. I think like we made the trip over specifically to be like, we want to see tournament condition as as close as it'll be to the Ryder Cup. It's one of the most miserable golf experiences I've ever had. I mean, it was horrible. I mean, my legs were rashi at the end from all of that, the tall grass that I was in the whole time.

And yeah, it played so completely differently once Ryder Cup time came around. Yeah. I mean, Ryder Cup, obviously, there was a lot of rough, but it was like, it played so completely differently once Radar Cup time came around. Yeah, I mean, Radar Cup, obviously, that there was a lot of rough, but it wasn't nothing like parties. Where it was just a hack out. Like, you could still hit the green, if you had like a short mid-Ion. But.

So on a team perspective, were you trying to find other players, like find captain's fix that would sort of, because you've to find other players, like find captains picks that would sort of, because you've got a good idea that, hey, this is how we want to do it. We've got a bunch, you know, the majority of the team at this point has, they're going to gain strokes with long irons, they're good off the tee, that sort of thing. Are you going out and trying to identify other captains picks picks. Yeah, I was a combination of a few things. I would say we were obviously looking for ideally that kind of player.

Then the other thing is we had a lot of very good for some players. We didn't have a lot of forbord players. So I obviously looked big, Nikolai Hoigard, even Bob McIntyre to some extent, he's good in four goals and not so good in four teams. So we're trying to make sure that we had enough options for both formats. We were looking at whoever was playing best in the last few months. So someone like Seb Strakka, he was having a great summer of golf.

Both Nikolai and Ludwig, they played extremely well from middle of August onwards. So it was a combination of things, but obviously you look at a bunch of different stuff. You mentioned guys being good for ForSums and good for ForBall. What makes those profiles fit? I cannot dive any harder into the Ryder Cup and I still don't think I have any understanding of how you identify who those guys are. In your mind, how do you identify? Who's good at ForSums and who's good at ForBall? Again, so ForBall is basically just making birdies. So whoever is making the most amount of birdies is good in ForBall's. And then we had a little not secret, but something that I'm not going to disclose to make sure that

we can you know two players that can make the same number of birdies but then you want to kind of mix them up a little bit so and then in in four songs it's a bit more complex so I started to kind of develop a system where basically we could have let's say Rory playing with Tommy and then Rory will hit the T-shirt on the first. We know exactly how many times he's going to hit the fairway, and how far he's going to be. So then from there, Tommy is going to hit the second shot, and we know he's like this person and strokes again from each distance range. How many times does he hit it inside 10 feet, and then Rory hits the path, and then you just keep going. They basically play, you make them play 18 holes on a kind of a simulation.

And then you get an expected score and then you flip them so all of a sudden Tommy hits the first and the role is the second shot of the first and then you do the same for all possible combinations. And we could do it. I mean we looked at I think we were looking at like 25, 30 players. And you know, all of a sudden, you had some players that were very good in four zones for different reasons. Like, one player could be very good because he hits a lot of fairways. One player could be very good because on, I don't know, even holes, it's important to

pat very well. So, like, he could be a great force on player. It just, for example, looked big, it was great because he's obviously unbelievable off the tee. And then if he was playing even, you could hide a little with his weakness, which is his approach play. So all of a sudden, him playing with Victor, you're basically giving Victor 10 years longer off the tee. As many fair failures as Victor hits. And then you got Victor hitting a club less into the greens,

which is like, is deadly from 160 and then from 150 is in worse. So in theory, there's good force. Some players for a particular golf course that doesn't necessarily translate to the next one. And if there's a rerouting of any kind of that golf course, it might also be a different equation, right? Like for a president's cup, I know you're not involved with that, but Kweil Hollow, they rerouted a bunch of holes and 18th became the 15th, which was an odd hole versus even like that might play a factor in whether or not somebody is a good

forcems fit. Yes, you want to shift massively, but it can definitely shift a little bit the odds and the numbers. And then, I think the important thing there is especially for four sums, but even four words is that you want to have, I mean, it's not only on data, you want to have players that like to play with each other and like to spend time with each other, even caddies that like to hang out with each other, you know, personalities fit. So, you know, if someone, if someone that likes to talk a lot and the other guy just wants to stay quiet, I mean, if you notice, I think it was very noticeable

in person by, I think, even on TV. Like, our guys, they walked together a lot, they were like hugging each other on the first tee, they were speaking a lot with each other, they were just trying to be as close as possible to each other. And sometimes you would see pictures of, you know, two Americans on the tee just, you know, two feet, two feet from each other, just looking and looking up. It was just a bit of a different vibe.

That's the eye test. Yeah, that's where I still can't, I walk away from every one of these and be like, okay, this is why Europe wins. this is why Europe wins. And I still, you've played in a rider cup, like you've been here for this. How does that team environment translate to playing better golf? Like why is that, right?

I mean, I can see it in my own eyes, I still struggle to explain why that is though. That's difficult to put into words. I think you feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself. You see like the, especially the top guys in the team, they, I mean, they, they literally live for the Ryder Cup, like even someone like Rory on the Monday night, he gave, you know, we just said a bit of a chat after dinner with the whole team and, you know, players, vice captains and, and look. And Rory was trying

to explain what the Ryla Cup means to him. And at the end of it, he was almost in tears, he was almost like, he was so like ready for it and he just wanted it so badly. And I told him on the Sunday after we won, I bumped into him on 18 when we were waiting for Shane to finish and I said, I just couldn't believe how much this means to you because obviously you still have the masters to win, you still have, you want to win majors, I thought you were wanting to win mostly majors. And he said, this year, this is the thing that I wanted the most, which from someone like him is like, it's powerful. So I think when you're a rookie in that team room,

when you see someone like that that is so motivated to play well, it just inspires you to play better golf. And then the other thing as well, I think, is that again, guys like Rory, John, I mean, if you walked in the team room any day of the week, it looked like John and Rory were best mates with Bob and Nicolai, and they probably saw each other two times before the week. But it was literally, you know, having dinner together and, you know, Bob was sitting at the table, Rory would go there and a chart. And it's like, it's difficult to see.

I promise this next question is not about sour grapes. I promise this is not okay, but I'm gonna float this by you. If I look in back at past Ryder cups, going back to 2006, home team blowout, 2008, home team blowout, 2010 very close, you were part of that Ryder cup. 2012 obviously very close, but home team was blowing them out

before Miraculous final day. 2014 home team blowout, 2016 home team blowout, 2018 home team blowout, 2021 home team blowout, 2023 home team blowout. You see what I'm getting at here? You've talked a little bit about some of the, you know, we haven't actually gotten to some of the details of what you've done with course setup. I understand there's a little something about bunker rakes in there, which I want to pick your brain about too. But are we past the US was a little stronger from are you grinning here? I said, you know what I'm talking about or not that we were the US was stronger from fairway bunker. So they were raked a little bit wider with wider

grooves. Is that accurate? No, you're close, but okay. Close, but no. Okay. Not there. Okay. Well, anyways, is it past time for to give, to give some of these advantages that come through course setup back to something more neutral? If we want to have a close competition, is it, again, I thought the setup was totally fair and fun. It promoted a fun style of golf. I did not think France promoted a fun style of golf, but this was fun and entertaining golf. So I'm fine with that. And it's not sour grapes. The US does the same thing. That's that's all to say, like, are we better off

with a closer to a neutral setup? So you can't exacerbate the weaknesses of the other team in the in this spirit of having a close more close competitions in this event. Yeah, I would say so. I think something has been done already because up until I think Hazel team, the home team could pick the pins and they could pick the tees. And now that's not the case anymore. So now both teams, they get the five pins that are going to use at the beginning of the week. They don't tell you which pins is singles, which pins is four songs, but at least you know the five pins. And they tell you, let's say on the A-Tall, we could move the T1T up on certain days, on the 16th of all,

we might move the T-back. So I think part of it has been taken away already. To be honest, I don't know. I mean, I think, yes, course setup is definitely an advantage. But I think there's a lot of other things like the crowds, you know, even I think in the room, the crowds were very respectful, but they were also very loud. And I think there's something again, when you're playing in front of a crowd that kind of loves you, it's

almost like you cannot wait to make a part and just celebrate and just get them going. And there's an away team when the home team starts to get off to a good start. And then the crowds are behind us. It just becomes a very, very long week. So yes, core setup, I think there's something to it. And I mean, they could make it complete in neutral where the home team can go there, practice whatever you want, but you don't have a say in the height of the roof or the width of the fairway or the speed of the greens or the raking the bankers.

But... Right, that's kind of my point is there's enough home field advantage. I think with all the things you just mentioned that do you need the Core Setup on top of that, right, that's kind of my point is there's enough home field advantage. I think with all the things you just mentioned that do you need the core setup on top of that, right? And maybe it's on, it's got somebody's got to do it first, right? It's just going to keep trading off. No one wants to be the first one to do it to sacrifice that advantage. We're going to throw in a bike patient.

It's also something too where the Americans are about to dig up Hazelteen and basically create the place in their, in their image a little bit, right? Yeah. You know, it's hard to pick what it's going to be like six, however many years in advance. You know, I mean, I was going to say it's still a long time away. So it's, it's a, it's a 3K exercise. But how much did you communicate with guys prior and collaborate with them on, hey, you know, this is who you may play with, this is who and how much

did you collaborate with the DP World Tour as far as, you know, with the pairing that you mentioned at Cron or all the Wentworth stuff. Yeah. So DP World Tour has been was always been has always been very good with us. So this is something I didn't know before being a vice captain, but once you're a vice captain, you basically choose the two players you play with all the way every week until the Ryder Cup for the first two days. So I mean, if you know this in the last, so I was named captain in May 22, and in the last 14 months, I only ever played with European players every single week.

Thursday, Friday, every week. So I think it's not so much to see how they play but it's more like to get to know them a little bit more, spend some time with them. We organized like a countless number of dinners, even in Scotland with a massive dinner, but we did it a lot of times. And I think just playing with them, again, it makes them a bit more comfortable if they happen to be in the helicopter,

they just know someone a little bit better, especially for the European guys, because you have to imagine that some of these guys that play mostly in Europe, again, they've only seen John and Rory and those guys two, three, four times in their life. I mean, we, another thing that Luke did and he was very good with it, I think he was at the PGA, definitely at the PGA, maybe even at the US Open, he organized practice rounds between Rory with some of the guys and then John with with some of the guys, and then John,

with some other of the guys, especially with the guys coming from Europe. Because I mean, John and Rory, they don't need to play with each other, but like John and someone like Nikolai Hoigard, or Rory and Nikolai, or Rasmus, whoever, even players that might not be in the team this time, but they might be in the team in two years time.

So we're just trying to build it very much in the long run. Looking at just that Rory as an example, because he's played in so many Router Cup at this point, I don't know what's gonna come at your guys' camp, is he gonna play with a rookie Torbjorn Oleson, or is he gonna show up and play with Tommy Fleetwood, who's been one of the best European Router Cupers, or at least obviously was in Paris.

How does it get decided? All right, John Rom, you're gonna be playing with Niklai Hoigard, the rookie here, and Rory, you're going to be kind of paired with another top gun this go around. How does that all come about? And what are those conversations like? Yeah, so it's, I think that was the most fun part of the rider cup of my rider cup, and also the most difficult one. Because obviously we started looking at the data and making sure we were looking at what were the best possible pairings

and the worst possible ones that you just wanna avoid. Then Luke especially, he talked to the players and basically asked them, who would you like to play with, who you wouldn't like to play with. And I have to say we're quite lucky because of our 12 guys. I think maybe only one or two they said, oh, I don't want to play with this guy or this guy. So we basically had no constraints, no obligations on that side. Because if you have all of a sudden, if you have a few guys that say, I don't want to play with him,

I don't want to play with him, I don't want to play with him, then it just, you know, all your options start to shrink very quickly. The other thing we looked at, we wanted to have everyone playing on Friday. So we needed to find a spot for everyone in the team. So that was a conscious decision going into the week, well beforehand, like, hey, we definitely want everybody to play Friday. And is that just because you want to get everybody's feet where you want them to be comfortable?

Yeah, I think it doesn't really matter. I mean, it's difficult to judge someone just on the practice rounds or on the weeks before, because I mean, there either could be such a different animal to any other golf tournament. You want to see how they play, how they react in that environment. And I think having everyone on the course on the first day, if someone wasn't comfortable, it was playing particularly bad, then you

can see them on the second day. But if you don't play them on Friday, then you don't know how they're going to react on Saturday. So you're trying to guess on Saturday, which you don't want to do. And I think that was the original idea of this was Thomas Bjorn. I remember having dinner with him in Luke in Ireland. So I liked a month before and he strongly suggested that everyone should be on the course, at least once on Friday. And I think in hindsight it was a great idea. So then you have that.

And then you start asking the guys and then all of a sudden you start looking at your possible. So obviously, you know, Rolly, John Victor are going to play 36 on day one. And then you start finding partners for them. You don't want to we didn't want to pair them together to avoid the, you know, the tiger feels situation at Auckland Hills. I mean, 18-holling match play pretty much anyone can beat anyone. And if you put them together and you lose that point, it's like you almost lose two points. So again, you try and split them and then you start and find partners. We look at the ball situation, which is obviously very, very tricky in four-sounds. Again, you have some guys like, you know, we asked John, we said John, what, you know, is there any preference for golf ball for any was just give me ten balls on the range. I hit shots with track one, I'll be fine with it. I can

play it in holes. Isn't that reduced though as well with the new, because can't you put any ball in play on any T that you want from the start of each hole? Like, you don't need to do odds, evens anymore? Yeah, yes, but then again, if someone hits it in the rough and you lay up, then you have to hit with their own ball. And then other guys were like, I remember there was one guy in particular who I'm not going to name, but there was one guy that was

switching balls just before, the couple of weeks before. So there was a bit of an issue, a headache and then at Wentworth we asked Ludwig if he could hit a few shots with this ball. And all of a sudden Ludwig, say Ludwig driver numbers are, you know, two six spin launching at 12 and the ball was launched that ball was launching at 12 is spinning 3839. So all of a sudden, Ludwig was losing 35 yards of the tea. So we said, right, I mean, even if they can switch ball, it's not, when the ball is so dramatically different to what you're playing, then that's not an option anymore. And so, you look at all the possible combination and constraints, and then eventually, we wanted to start fast. So we decided to go basically all out in the morning

and just put our best, four best pairings out in the morning, which paid off pretty good, I would say. And then, yeah, and then, obviously, you just keep going. How much did it change up? Like, versus what you thought it was going to be on Saturday? How much did you, you know, based on how people played or surprises or anything like that? Yeah, basically, on Friday, we had the plan, basically,

setting stone the weekend of Ireland, so two weeks before, two and a half weeks before. And we just had a couple of options in case player A is not playing great, we can swap him. And in case player B is not playing great, and still have everyone on the course on Friday, which was the biggest concert. And then for Saturday, we, well, Luke was very keen on making sure that maybe John was arrested for Sunday singles because of Wishing Stray. He played five matches

and he said he was very tired on Sunday. So if we had the option to arrest someone, John was always going to be the first son of our big players to rest and that's what happened on Saturday. And then again, Saturday, I mean, after Friday started, the morning was always going to be exactly the same, just we just switched the order a little bit. And then in the afternoon, obviously John rested, we had a couple of different parents that we could kind of switch with each other. So, I have to say, I mean, we had two hand in the parents at 11am for the afternoon session, and it just took us.

We always met at like 10, 15, 45 minutes before we'd look at the other vice captain in a corner on the golf course. Every time it was like a five minute discussion and it was it was pretty easy. And the same thing at night like you know when they finished I think we had an hour from when they finished playing before we could hand in the before we had to hand in the the parents for the next morning and it literally took us five minutes on Friday night. So everything I the guy I think with Luke is that he's, and I'm quite similar like he's very well organized. He likes to think about a lot of different options

and possibilities well ahead. So even with the players, like there was a feeling, a general feeling that everything was very well managed. Everything was, it was calm. It was, there was a reason behind everything. And I think as a player, it just puts you in a good place. How do you determine the order specifically for the team portions, right? Are you trying to avoid certain American pairings? Are you trying to match up with certain pairings? Are

you trying to guess what they're doing at all? or how do you come up with who goes out first second third fourth? I don't want to sound too. Oh, come on. No, no, no, no, I can't take it. No, I don't want to sound too cocky, but I remember it's telling Luke on, I want to say Wednesday. I said, Luke, I have a feeling can't lay in the sun. There are going to be last four. And Scottie and Sanvers are going to be first for some. So having said that, John was always going to be our first for some with Tyrell. And then we said, we send the orient to me out last because we felt if you could be Scottie and Sanvers, that's a big point to get.

And if you could be Patrick and Sandler, that's a massive point to get. So we literally tried to get and if you could be Patrick and Sandor, that's a massive point to get. So we literally tried to get those two and we got them and we beat them both and yeah it was a dream start. But yeah it's and then same thing like I they probably they probably guessed the same like it's it's always the first and the last four sums of the first session are always very, very strong. So it was always going to be either or. And then obviously they arrested JTN's beef and I could bet a lot of money. I don't bet, but I could bet a lot of money that JTN's beef was going to be first for

a bar's out in the afternoon. And they got Victor and Tyrell. So I mean, it's I think there's there's a bit of a guessing game, but you can kind of predict what's what's going to happen. And then I think, you know, most people could see John going out first in the singles versus Scottie that that was almost a game. And then after that, it becomes a bit more. I think when you're behind in the singles you want to front load, like put all your players, strong players out first, hoping to at least get to the end of it. And that's pretty much what they did. So for singles you basically said, hey, we want to have a pretty well balanced thing. Yeah, I mean, for singles, the thing is,

Yeah, I mean, for singles, the thing is, so the US were always going to put their strong players out first. First three, four players were going to be their best player, they're playing the best. You could hide like John Rory and those guys and get them easier matches, but all of a sudden if you lose the first four, and then it happens that John Rory lose a game, then you lose the first four, and then it happens that John or Rory lose a game, then you're losing five or six games already. So I think the best way it's always to cry, and especially when you're ahead to try and cover them up, and make all the matches as close as possible, and then eventually you're gonna get points somewhere.

Like, if it's all very balanced matches, it's very difficult that you're gonna lose four in a row. Any big surprises that the American sent out where you're just like, man, I did not see that coming or I did not see that team or I did not see that, you know, that pairing going out first. I was, I mean, with all, with all the respect, because I'm a big Jordan speed fan, but I thought the way he played in four balls on Friday afternoon, I was a little surprised to see him going out in four sums on Saturday morning. But then again, I only saw him playing 18 holes that afternoon, so maybe he was playing great and then he just didn't play well that afternoon. Obviously he didn't play very well on Saturday morning either, but I think it's too easy to judge someone from the other side of the fence. And you never know the

full side of the stories. Any pairings that you would have, like, what, like, you were shocked that you didn't see from them? Like, hey, man, like, I thought these two guys, yeah, FNU S like, man, I thought these two guys would have would have played beautifully together. I thought the, well, obviously JT always played with Jordan. I thought JT was going to get at least a game with Ricky because obviously I know they're good friends and it seems like they, you know, that they do their parents a little bit more based on like friendships and then people

together on with. But, you know, I think I think Riki wasn't, you know, from everything I've heard. I've spoken with Riki and he seemed okay, but from what I've heard, he wasn't feeling great, so maybe, you know, they wouldn't like to play a bit more in the couldn't. I don't know. That's what that, I mean, we spent Friday night on the show being like, I don't know who the eight guys are on the US right now. I mean, they had such a bad showing on that first day and who knows what the health situation was. I'm curious, total hypothetical here, but

I mean, the JT captain's pick was a huge controversy in the US, a huge debate for the majority of the year. How would you have looked at that if you were a US team captain of some way of obviously the short-term form, not very good at all, not a ton of signs of it turning around yet a player that I think was written in pen as being on this team and almost could have had as bad of a season as possible and still made the team. It just was a huge debate of, hey, do you take a hotter player or go with a guy who's got this track record, but playing poorly? How would you look at that or how would you have broken down that scenario specifically? Well, I think JT has always been very good in the Ryder cups.

And as I said before, Ryder Cup is very, very different from any other golf tournament. I mean, we had a similar situation in, I wasn't involved in the team, but in 2018, when Sergio got picked, Sergio had one of his worst years of his career, I would say. But then he showed up in the Ryder Cup and he was the usual Sergio. And to be honest, J.T., again, I followed him the first afternoon when he was playing against Victor and Theoretal. And he was definitely the best of the two between him and Jordan. He played much better than Jordan on that afternoon.

And yeah, the decent, pretty decent rider cap JT because he won a single, he had that game. I mean, so I think, I don't think it was as controversial as some people wanted to make it look. I mean, it's always difficult when you get down to the peaks. I mean, we had a similar thing, like, three months we thought we were struggling to get 12 guys that could play at a good level in this rider cup. And then when the time came to make the peaks, all of a sudden we had a couple too many. And unfortunately, there's always someone that is going to get the short

end of the stick, which in the US case, it was always a kick and I guess it was the first big one out. But it's so difficult. Everything is so close these days that you might have picked kick and then won and look like a legend. And then he picked JT and then he lost and now everyone's saying, oh, he shouldn't have a big JT, but I think there's more to it than the piece. Yeah, it was really, we did a total hypothetical. Like if it was like JT versus Ludwig,

obviously a total hypothetical, but like an up and coming talent that, you know, total, you know, what do you do there? It was a lot harder question, I think, then, you know, a Keegan that you kind of know who that guy is at that point, but obviously it didn't quite work out. Real quick. What was loving? We made it 45 minutes in here, so I feel like I can't ask him. At what point did that enter your mind, and then at what point did that feel like

a logical, like, reasonable expectation that he could be on the team? So through story, again, May 22, I'm in Rome and with Henrik and Thomas Bjorn, where I was going to be named, well, official in name, vice captain, the following day. And we were there as well to have a look at the golf course, start thinking about things. And we're having dinner and I think it was Thomas that said, is there, he asked me, is there anyone in your starts that you see up and coming and that might have a chance to play in their own?

And obviously he thought I was going to say something playing in Europe on D.P. War II. And I said, well, Thomas, there's a Swedish kid that is playing in college that he might have a chance. And he looked at me like I was smoking weed. I said, what? I'm like, yeah, Thomas, this guy, I remember the name, he might have a chance. So we leave it there, he just laugh at me and then February, well, late January this year, so nine months ago, Ludwig comes to play as an amateur in Dubai, Desert Classic. And I saw his name on the entry list and I, you know, as a vice captain, I raised my hand and I said, that's my guy for Thursday Friday. And he shows up,

I don't know if you know the golf course at the Emirates, but like it's a typical desert course, pretty cold in the morning, the ball doesn't go very far. And he hit the t-shirt on the first, or the t-shirt on the second hole, and I was sold. Like literally, I turned to my caddy, and I said, if this guy is not in the room, there's something wrong here. He shot the easiest 65 you'll ever seen.

And I finished playing, and I walk on the range, and there's Thomas sitting in the corner on the range and he looks at me and is miley because obviously he knows what I'm about telling. And before I can even say anything, he tells me, oh, it's only one round, stop it. Don't even start, it's only one round. I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's only one round Thomas,

but I've seen enough golf in my life and I'm telling you, this kid is different. Okay, okay, we'll see. Anyway, he doesn't play well in Dubai finishes makes the cut the finishes at the bottom. Then he has a decent week at day, he'll decent week at Valsper, I think. And then I start spending more and more time with Luke and I said, Luke, the first time you go to the US, you got to play with this kid because if he's not in this Ryder Cup team,

he would be in the next one. So just keep an eye on him. So Ludwig turns pro and he plays with Luke in Detroit, I want to say. So the first week we pair him with Fitsy and Tyrrell Hatton. The PGA tour was kind enough to ask us who do you want him to play with. And he goes, OK, let's give him two Ryder Cup players.

And both of them text me literally Thursday nights saying, oh, where's this kid coming from? Well, I, I mean, Billy Foster. So Billy Caddys and Billy Foster, I think he cadded in the last 15 or 16 Ryder Cup. So he's seen everything from Sevy, although we've filed the longer, all the way to Rory and these guys. And I think he texted Luke that Friday night saying, Luke, we need to keep an eye on this guy. So I was

everyone is raving about it about him. And then Luke plays with him in Detroit the following week. And I think Luke big shoots playing with Luke. He shoots 65, 67 and is like one of the leaders after two days. So I texted Luke back and said, Luke, how was it? Is it quite good? And I think he replies something of, I've never seen anything like it. And I said, so, well, we are now with him being in the team. And obviously, he said this as a joke,

but he said, I've already asked him the size of the shirts and what kind of bed does he want. Yeah. But I mean, he was still laughing at the time. He was saying, oh yeah, he's good, but you'll see what happens. And then he started playing really well and then he came over to Europe,

finished top five in check. And then I mean, even in check, he played with my brother Francesco has just been named a vice captain two weeks before and he plays he has to play in Czech with Ludwig and Nikolai Hojgert. So Francesco was all day 40 to 50 years behind him and he comes a dinner and I've been talking to Ludwig about Ludwig to Francesco for three or four months saying you won't believe how good it is. So he comes a dinner and he looks at me and he said, you've been busting my balls for four months about Ludwig. I was ready to give it all back to you tonight and he said, unfortunately, I

can't because I've never seen anything like it. I mean, off the tee, I mean, again, we're talking like him, like it's the next Tiger Woods. He's not the next Tiger Woods, but off the tee, it's something that it's difficult to imagine if you haven't witnessed it. And again, in a team format, you have to play someone with someone like him in four songs. I mean, when we ask the guys who do you want to play someone with someone like him in four songs. I mean, when we ask the guys who do you wanna play with, I think I wanna say at least 10, but possibly 11 guys say, or can I have a game with Ludwig?

Yeah, of course. It's just less variables, right? Like you were playing out of the middle of the fairway, 340 off the tee. You just wait on the tee and you see this bar on 325 down the middle of the fairway. And yeah, I would like to play with it. I can probably win a game with it.

It's Flore is just so ridiculously high. I mean, if he gets the Iron Play and the rest of it, even if he has hot weeks, I mean, we saw it. He almost won BMW and obviously won Cron. I mean, it's such a good kid too. And then like, he's got a good head on the shoulders. Like, he's already improved his chipping immensely. It seems like this year.

And then I mean, to go, he plays right at the cup and obviously he I think he's struggling a little bit with the you know the importance of the event the situation the atmosphere he wasn't the the loot picked that I saw two three weeks before you could tell but A is going to be very helpful in two years time if he qualifies for Beth Page. I mean, he's already done it before. And you know, Beth Page is going to be dead on steroids. But yeah, it's just that good. And he will play, as Luke said, he might play 8, 10,

either, perhaps. Well, it seems like two. There's such a between him and Nikolai and, you know, Rasmus, coming and then Adrian Jemont at your start. Like, there's, there seems like there's a good ground swell of young talent to choose from coming up. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think there's, we have a lot of young up and coming players.

And yeah, it's an exciting time. I mean, this time we had a very young team, obviously, because I think the oldest guy was and coming players. And yeah, it's an exciting time. I mean, this time we had a very young team obviously, because I think the oldest guy was Rousy, and then other than him, all the others were like in the most in the mid-30s. So it's a very young team, and there's a few young up and coming talents.

I think we're in a good place. I mean, Beth Beij is going to be extremely difficult. But you never know. What was the team room like Saturday night after a controversial finish to that? We have the Cantley situation, we have the Joe, the Convo situation, we have, I understand Mr. McElroy was maybe a little emotional about the whole situation, which we saw, some evidence of what was Saturday night like going, heading into Sunday singles?

Well, I would say what Joe did on the 18th green, and like he couldn't have done anything better for us. Because I mean, if he doesn't do anything and we just lose the match and we go back and we'll be def match and we go back and we'll be deflated and we'll be down because we lost the first session since the start of this ride. And at the same time, was it a five-point lead? You're 10.5 to five-point lead.

So you can start thinking, we just need four points. Whatever, it might be a little bit of a tricky situation. I think what Joel did, I mean, we walked back into the locker room, not even in the team room in the hotel, just in the locker room at the course. And everyone was like, so motivated and angry and saying, right, this is so good because then tomorrow we want to win the session. We want to give them a proper beating in the single session. If Joe didn't do what he did, I think everyone was a bit almost

sad and a bit tired and we just gone back to the hotel. But like for 10 minutes, everyone was like, right, tomorrow, I'm going to win my point. I'm going to win my point. And we're going to give them a proper beat up, which I think is that when you have a five-point lead, the right attitude is to go into the singles and try to win the singles. And I think Joel gave us a lot of fuel for that Sunday.

Where did you ever get even a little bit nervous on that Sunday with looking up and seeing a little bit of red on the board? I think I was a little bit nervous between, I think the worst time was when John was one down playing the last. I was a few games behind with Tyrell. I think Tyrell was on 12 when John was playing the last. And I thought, wow, we really need this half a point from John to start getting closer. Then John got this half a point. Tyrell played the great back nine against

the Bayern Harman, anyone is game on 16. And I think when Tyrell won his game on 16, we only needed half a point. And yes, I think only Tommy was one up. Then we had one down and two all square. But it was only half a point out of four matches. So some points, something was going to happen and eventually did with Tommy. But it was, I have to say, it was a little bit too close for comfort. Yes. There was that one moment when Tommy was only one up and Bob, MacTarget went down to only one up over Clark in those last two that was like, well,

the US had to have both of them, but yeah, Bob was on square. It got to all square. What was the moment they were both one only one up at the same time. And it was like, oh man, it's, I mean, if there's going to be some slippage, yeah, I mean, that's, that's what happened at Medina. I mean, it was like, Okay, well, I mean, not all of this stuff is going to happen. And it did. And I, who knows if it's ever going to get, get flipped. But so what, what is, I know you don't have a crystal ball on this, but what is, what is the future look like for you as an involvement in this, in this event in terms of, do you see yourself as a head captain in the near or distant future? No, no, no, head captain, absolutely, no, I don't think I have the the CV, I don't have the

you know, I didn't have the career to be to be captain, but you know, if whether I don't know whether Luke is going to be the next captain or someone else, if they want me to be involved again in helping the team with the stats, whether it's a vice captain, whether it's just as a stats guy, I'll be very happy to. I mean, I think as a European any time you can get involved in the European or either captain, whether it's a water boy or whatever, I'll do it. So I don't think you need a CV to be head captain. That like you guys have disproven that. I'm not going to buy that part, but if you I pushed your humbleness, but I wouldn't eliminate

you. And it's crazy too, like just the way that like I play with Rory at the end of each championship in the pro and like just the way that he talks about you and the way like the respect that you've garnered from the guys in that team room, both vice captains and players is is absolutely remarkable. How did the decisions get made? Like I know much has been made of the task force here in the States. Is there is is there kind of a core group of guys that just makes the decision? Is it made in concert with the DP World Tour? Like how does the captain's

captain? Yeah. So usually I think we have like a let's call it the committee or something which is a guy kidneys which is like Ryder Cup Europe director. Then we have Keith Pelley, we have I think David Owel who's the chairman of our PAC, our tournament committee, and then I I think it's the last three captains. So it's like a group of five, six people. And then they will meet in the next few months. Usually we announce the captain before the end of January, I would say, in normally years.

Then I think two years ago with all the live thing going on, there was a bit of a delay. So I guess before the end of January, we'll hear something, but there's not exactly that line or anything. And there's not like a vaulting process, having just more of a discussion. And then they agree on someone, and then they asking.

We'll get you out of here on this, then. What, as previously mentioned, the home teams have definitely dominated this event. How does Europe flip it? Rory was quite confidently stated that Europe is going to flip it at Beth Page. That's going to be one psycho environment. I know he knows that, but how do you flip it? As I see it right now, it is, it's playing at home versus playing on the road, are two totally

different things. How would you evaluate what Europe has to do to flip that? Yeah, I mean, as Rory said, winning an away rider cup these days is probably the most difficult fit in golf, for sure, and probably in sports, I would say. How do you flip it? I don't know, I'll tell you in two years, hopefully. It's difficult. I mean, you have to go in with the right mindset for sure, because if you don't go in with the right mindset,

it's going to be a very long week. We had the ocovich in our team room on the Thursday night, and he spoke for 10-15 minutes to the team with Luke with everyone. And he gave us a couple of good ideas. Like, obviously, he's always... He's basically played his whole career in tennis with the crowds rooting against him. And he had a couple of good tips that I think will come very handy in Beth's page. But as I said, I think you have to somehow,

you have to embrace the environment. If you start moaning about the crowds and the booing and everything, you're just setting yourself up for a beating. For a Beth page, how do you see the course being set up? Similar to how we've seen it for the majors there? Well, I guess I've never been a Beth page, but I've seen the shortening data for for events and stuff. It looks like you cannot make it like a birdie fest like they usually try and make in the US. So I know it could be,

it might be slightly different, different, right? But then on the other hand, you got Adari Manor in in 27, which is as an American golf course as you may get. Like it's wide, long, around of areas everywhere. So I know you might, you might win a bet page and then maybe we change the venue for it.

I know we do something dramatic for the golf course. TC was complaining about the setup at, at bet page before the Marcos Simone Radar Cup even happened. Yeah, he's, this is, it's just like a bunch of straight holes. The greens are so flat, they're all kind of perched up. There's a couple bunkers in front of them.

It's pretty unspectacular in my opinion. I don't know. It's good to have my mind of the core set up for a while. We spent so much time looking at every possible detail. It'd be nice in a way to just go there and play what you get and it's going to be fine. I think, as long as the bunker raking isn't crazy at Beth Pax, the US is going to do. I don't understand. I'd heard from a very good source that I thought you had told this person that, that the

rake bristles were wider than standard rakes. I'll tell you the name of this person. As soon as we hang up, he literally told me that. That's okay. Okay. Oh, anyway. I don't know. What's one example?

Just like we've heard about the video that Luke showed to each team member. What's another example of Luke's leadership that just he thinks sums him up really well? Either attention to detail or just something that really speaks to him. So many things like well to start with the opening ceremony speech.

Like I was sitting next to Francesco, Luke was on the side and they have this screen in front of them like 20 years in front with the speech, they're basically reading the speech. And obviously when Zach did his speech, he had the phonetics for the Italian words. So when he said, I think he said, Grazie and Bonacere, I said, a couple of words. And then when Luke steps up, we're looking at the screen and we saw a couple of full sentences

written in proper Italian with Italian spelling. And I look at Francesco, we look at each other thinking, this is a mistake, this is panic. And look at that and just started reading in perfect Italian. Like the pronunciation, everything was perfect. And the crowds understood it. reading in perfect Italian, like the pronunciation, everything was perfect. And the crowds understood it, and I mean, there was one up Europe already, straight away, 10 seconds into his capency.

So I mean, that's one thing. I mean, the videos were amazing. I mean, I'm not a very emotional person, and I was almost in tears. Poor José Maria, José Maria was crying, I think, you know, I think it's been 30% of the week crying because of me too. I mean, yeah, but like in the locker room, there was this savvy thing, I guess you've seen it on social media where they hang the heavy shirt that they use that Oak Hill in his last try the cup. And we have this nice picture of, I mean, we went in there on Tuesday morning the first time we get to the golf course altogether.

And then we go out on the range on the patting ring warming up and no one can see Chema or Azaba. So we try and find him and then eventually someone goes in the locker room and he's still in front of save his locker, crying like a baby, and he just couldn't stop. And it's like, so I mean, going back to Luke, I think, I mean, so many things, I mean, the biggest thing is the amount of time

he spent doing all this, like from learning Italian, I mean, learning Italian, I mean, he did, so he downloaded Duolingo and app on his iPhone. And I think he had the week of the ride. I think he got to 290 consecutive days doing the Duolingo. I mean, you try and do anything for 290 consecutive days. Eventually, you're going to break your string. But, you know, so again, motivational videos. I mean, he had a very cool thing which was his own idea in our team room, where like, as a rider cup player, you get a replica of the trophy, whether you win or lose, you just get for appearance, you get a replica of the trophy.

And usually you get it at the end of the week. And his idea was, I'm going to give it to the guys at the beginning of the week. We're going to have a nice display in the team room with the 12 rider cups, replica for the players. And there's going to be one gap in the middle. And every time you walk in the team room, you look at the gap and you think, at the end of the week, we need to fill the gap. And then obviously at the end of the week he comes in with fill the gap. And then obviously, at the end of the week, he comes in with a ride, and puts it in the gap, and it was just amazing. But it's, I mean, so many things, I mean, again,

to, you know, it was difficult to get, Olaza Bal involved, and, you know, he called John, he called Olaza Bal, he called John again, and he said, John, just make sure that Chema comes on board, and he got it, like, I mean, a number of things that were just, you know, I would have never thought of some of those details and he did.

I mean, I think communication was fantastic with all the players. Like everyone knew exactly going to the week, they knew what they were gonna do on Friday, what was the possibilities on Saturday, everything. Like, even up to the practice trip, like before we went on the practice trip, Luke sends us like a WhatsApp text, very long text.

Well, we had the exact schedule for the practice trip, which is fine. And then he said, the week of the ride, the car, I wanna have this to happen, this to happen, this to happen. And it was like every, every 30, 40 minutes, there was something going on. And everything was already planned. It was like, it just gives you, as a player, it just gives you a sense, again, of calmness and of like, if my captain, if my leader is so well organized, motivate, is that for it, and everything is gonna be much easier.

So I think, again, going back to the beginning, I think Luke was, he was the true MVP of the week, and I'm, you know, deep down, I'm really hoping he's able to do it again, because it's, I think the players will love him. Maybe feel weirdly good about 2025, because I don't think Tiger needs to do a lingo to practice English up in front of the 2025 Ry love him. Maybe feel weirdly good about 2025, because I don't think Tiger needs do a lingo to practice English up in front of the 2025 Ryder Cup. So I think I think

if that's what it takes, I think the bear is going to be a great position. That's that's not. Got tight. Tiger might my bust out an Irish accent. So, hey, Eduardo, this one's up there, man, for me, in terms of interviews and insight into the Ryder Cup. I know we did a great one with Paul McGinley a couple years ago that was just like painted the picture for why Europe's had so much success in this event and why.

I like, I tend to like it for a lot of the reasons that you've talked about today. I still am kind of determining why I'm rooting for the US in these things, but the way you guys treat it as a competition and the team aspect of it, I find so fascinating and to hear, like especially here, Jose Maria's, you know, that description of how, what do you think of this event is, kind of what I think about it just as a sports fan. So thank you so much for your time

and sharing some insights and some look into it. We'll dig back into this bunker thing once we hang out, but we really appreciate your time. And I hope to do it again sometime. Yeah, thank you very much for having me. It's been great fun. Thank you. It's been a great club.

Be the right club today. Yes. Yeah. That is better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most.