No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 762: The TGL

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

As news about the forthcoming TGL (Tomorrow Golf League) has trickled out in recent weeks, we gather to try and compile what we know, and what we don't know, about the venture. First up, the basics of the league: the competition format, the rosters, who's investing in the league, etc. We also examine: Our big picture feelings about the state of the TGL venture and how legitimate the competition will feel to viewers (20:20). The viability of the league long term in light of the non-Tiger players who are participating and the cringe-worthy Morikawa video (45:30). Rahm's absence from the league after initially committing and other notable players who are not participating (56:50). Our best guesses on how the league will do in its initial season (1:04:00) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Lang up podcast weekly ish recap, not really a recap coming on a Tuesday, not a Sunday. We had the NIT this past weekend. Solid here joined by my esteemed colleagues, Mr. DJ Pi, house key.

Hello, DJ Pi. Greetings guys. Super Tuesday going on over here excited to, excited to be back at it with you all. We'll see if the Jupiter Ling Skolf Club can whip up the votes, representing the cleeks on his hat tonight, Mr. Tron Carter, hello TC. Hello, all credits of Blandy, all hail Blandy. We are going to be talking about the TGL, which I admittedly, guys, a week ago, I was like,

wait, what is it? What is it stand for? Is it the Tiger Golf League? Turns out it's the tomorrow golf league, which I think I do, but I had forgotten over the course of this rollout over the last year plus we're going to fill you in on if you don't know what this is or if confused or anything, we're going to fill in as many details as possible. The 16 would just announce today a few hours ago before we hit record. But first, you know who we got to check in with.

That's our friends at rowback active where we are deep into fall and quickly approaching the holiday season. Rowback is ready. Fresh off new restocks of our favorite polos hoodies and quzips. Trust us when we say there is not better gear for the remainder of fall golf, the fit, the feel, the quality. It's all perfect and they just release brand new performance crews. They are so soft, so comfortable with breathable lightweight fabric that has a perfect stretch. They're great for the golf course or a night out. I ain't got to tell you anymore about performance hoodies legit. The only

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with code NLU get ready for the holiday season with rowback DJ Phil Amin on what we saw this past week at Frisco. We couldn't go anywhere without seeing the subtle dog logo. That was going to be my first question about these five pocket pants. Is the is the subtle dog logo and the two stripe ridge on the back going to be present. We can take that offline, but you know, a question for question for another day. It's gotten to the point where one of our friends and other sponsors drew from Stone Creek coffee. He sent over a fake read this morning. I was asking him for talking points for another pod. And he goes, you guys know Stone Creek. These guys understand quality.

There's only one way to describe it. That is best flavor, best mouthfeel. Just got back from the NIT. Kept seeing, that stone creek logo everywhere. Like, you know, it's just, it's, it's in there. I love, I love the rowback stuff, the amount of stuff we saw out at the, uh, NIT was, was jarring. Like, I would say 50 to 60% of the field. Yeah, they threw in some great, uh, prizes and gifts for, uh, they've fitted some people out with some, uh, big dollar amount in, uh, in, in rowback gear. If you, uh, we're If you were lucky enough to win a prize at the at the NIT, people might be wanting with the NITs. That's for another day. People might be wanting what the TGL is. That is

for this day. That is what we're going to talk about. We've been kind of, you know, nip and add it here and there, a little bit of commentary, but it was, we've been kind of away from sitting down and chatting with each other, even for the last couple several weeks. It's a lot of us have been traveling and said all right It's time to get caught up on this thing. There's been some news a lot of news on it A bit of drama as John Rom has was once signed up to do it is now no longer there All six teams have been announced. We don't know who's on all the teams But a lot to break down a lot to get into

Do you guys want to get it like the details of it first or should we do a vibe check? She would do a fit check on how we're feeling on the TGL so far. Let's get into the specifics, right? Let's set the table. Let's, for those that might not know what it is, what the hell we're talking about. Let's get into that. T.C. He's raising his hand as it is.

I don't know. And I thought TGL stood for the golf league. That would start that. Sweet. That would be a little bit on the self serious side. If you have the question, someone else in the class probably has the same question. That's what I'm saying. Let's start with some logistics and details here. So this is just very basic TGL, golf league created by tomorrow sports, which is one of

those weird words, acronyms that doesn't have the vowels in it. I don't really think it's an acronym for anything. TMRW sports. Oh, Oh, Oh, TMRW. TMRW, where would those letters be coming from?

Tiger McElroy, Rory, What's Tiger with Rory McElroy? Those are, I believe, four letters. Okay. I might read too many press releases. First, I'm hearing in this. It is venture formed by a sports executive Mike McCarley and professional golfers Tiger

Woods and Roy McAroy. Guys, is this, you know, against the PGA tour? No, it's not. It's in conjunction with, I don't really know. We're going to get into this later. I don't know how any of the ownership really works. I think the PGA tour is somehow involved. I think the players somehow have equity. I think all these owners somehow have equity. I don't know how any of the ownership really works. I think the PJ tour is somehow involved. I think the players somehow have equity. I think all these owners somehow have equity. I don't know. It just kind of seems like a, it seems like just a big, a hodgepodge of investors,

kind of nebulous partnerships that are going on. But this is going to be Monday nights on the worldwide leader, I believe, ESPN. Which is a get. That's a good get for them. To get. I mean, Slamball also on ESPN, which is a get. That's a good get for them to get. I mean, slam ball also on ESPN, but people don't seem to think so. The guy wearing the

cleaks hat does seem to think that it's sick. A lot of people watching again. You're already Macarley former golf channel executive NBC sports executive Dick Evertsol's PR guy for a long time, I think. I think it would be fair to say it's kind of from the minds that brought you golf pass. Would that be, would that be fair to say? I believe that is fair to say. I have a feeling I'm going to be at times in this episode. I'm going to be, I'm going to be holding back the damn here. I'm going to be, and I don't know if I'm the most optimistic on this or. Or go with the, with the, with the. I don't know if I'm bending over backwards, trying to hope that this is cool, or if I actually

have some hope for it, we'll get into all that. So I know the live bots are going to come after you and be like, well, where was the benefit of the doubt for us? Well, that's our started. It's actually my favorite part of TGL so far is the live bots unironically doing comparisons to the TGL to live. This screen golf league and getting all mad about these comparisons before he even starts. But it's like, guys, I don't think you realize the cell phone that this is, but hey, you can spend your time however you want to spend it. But

already some confusing details, you know, coming out of you, Mr. DJ Pi or who said this, I forget, but it is Monday nights. But the first two are on Tuesday nights. So it's worth noting. The first iteration of this will be on Tuesday, January 9th at 9 p.m. Eastern. It is the night after the college football playoff title game. And the second will be a week later at 7 p.m.

Eastern on the night after a Monday night football wild card playoff title game and the second will be a week later at seven PM Eastern on the night after a Monday night football wild card Playoff game both will be on ESPN and ESPN plus the other 13 regular season matches on dates to be announced There'll be on ESPN or ESPN 2 as well as ESPN plus. There'll also be semi-final and finals matches at the end of this season semi final and finals matches at the end of this season. It's surely this is green grass golf played on a golf course like all. No, that's what makes a difference. Sorry, not at all. Absolutely not. That is the huge 12 to six curveball that is thrown here. It is played indoors in a stadium that I believe is still being built in West Palm. I do not think it is, it is done. You know, blow up tennis dome. You know, those, you know, winter tennis things that they just put over the court.

Those things are sick. I wish we had one of those Milwaukee hit balls. It is going to be, um, if you're an enormous screen that players will hit into, uh, it's like 64 feet wide, I believe. Uh, the screen is set some distance away from where the balls are hit. It's not like, you know, if you're a five-iron car, yeah. I think like 30 yards away from where the people are. So you can at least see like a little bit of the shot versus, you know, just smacking one, you know, the smack bang, whatever you sound you would say. If you go to five-iron golf or just hit a ball on

a simulator, there's a little bit of element to it. How do you put? That is a tremendous question. Once you get within 50 yards, I believe it's 50 yards of the target through the screen, the screen golf full shots that are hit. There's a laser that comes out and points you towards where your ball is either on the green or near the green. You'll place your ball there and you will play. You will finish out the hole. Everyone finishes out the hole, actually in person in the arena. You gotta navigate the contours of the greens, which changes whole by whole. There's, I believe 189 jacks underneath the green

that can go up and down and whatnot to illustrate the green shape. There's some, maybe some Mr. Nicholas hole designs in there. All of this stuff that is like, man, if you get it right, could be potentially cool. If you get it wrong, it is really not going to be potentially cool. So they've been really, really hyping the technological aspects of this. So I would have to think that they've thought a lot of this through, but there's, there's a, they're asking for a lot of faith from a lot of people to this point to get super gung-ho about it, which we get into all that. But any questions on this to this point to the class? I think we should mention it's, it's six teams of four, but only three people are going to play each night. I think that's going to be relevant to our conversation. I think it's

also relevant. We don't know exactly who's on each team. And also, we don't really know how they're forming the teams. They just kind of, I guess, stay tuned to Twitter, slash x.com. And the teams will be provided to you at a later date. But I don't, there appears to be no draft. I don't think there's any like signing. I think it's a true like who's available on January 9th with with which ever private equity guy. Yeah, who's available on you know February 6th. We need a couple guys for this day. And I think they're kind of trying to match up the schedules that way right now. But yeah, we've got teams, you know, scattered throughout the both the east and West coasts. Do we? Are they scattered throughout or like the teams named after these cities, which is another confusing aspect of this because again, as mentioned, all of the events are going to be held

at the Sofai Center in West Palm in Florida. There is our six. Herbert's going to be sleeping balls or ad. They're going to be a half empty sofa center. It's going to be filled with the away team fans, I believe. There's the LA golf club, which has all we know that that is on the LA golf club as of now is Colin Moore, Kawa. There is Boston Common Golf, which is Rory, Rory Keygames, Frogs, Adam Scott, and Tyrell Hatton. There is Boston Common Golf, which is Rory, Rory Keygames. Adam Scott in Tural Hatton. There's Atlanta Drive GC, which is the only player

we know on that team is Justin Thomas. There are two unnamed teams, as of the time of recording this, I'm guessing by Thursday we'll know at least one more, but TGL, New York and TGL, San Francisco, we don't know who is on those teams. And then just announced today, Jupiter links GC, you know, headquartered at the woods, Jupiter. And we know that Tiger Woods will be on that team. So that leaves the following players not

on teams yet. That is Ricky Fowler, Matt Fitzpatrick, Justin Rose, Andrew Schoffley, Max Homa, Billy Horshaw, Tommy Fleetwood, Shane Lowry, Tom Kim, Sawhith Tagala, Cam Young, Patrick Cantlay, Wyndham Clark, Minwool Lee, Kevin Kizner, Lucas Glover, and now a 2B name, 24th player, as John Rahm was supposed to be one of these 24 and has backed out. Am I missing anything? It has to be blocky, right? You would think so. You would have, you. I don't think he's the next call. And no offense to any, any one named here, no offense to, you know, Lucas Glover,

Minbule, Kevin Kisner, things of that. I don't, I don't understand the theme of how they're finishing out this roster. Like I don't know who, like the 25th guy who is now going to be the 24th is going to be because, man, I don't know how long they're counting on this Lucas Glover hot streak to continue, but it's got it. That was a surprising name on there. Oh, man.

All right. Where do you want to start? First one of many questions. Well, let's do the format really quick. And then, you know, I want to understand. Let's go through all the particular. Okay. Okay. Okay. The format matches are 15 whole matches. Nine of the holes are what's being called alternating

triples, which is three man, all shot. So again, there's four guys to each team, but only three guys play on any given night. Then they will be playing a three man, all shot for nine of the holes against the other team Then there'll be six holes of singles with each player playing two holes So like player a is gonna play holes 10 and 13 player b plays 11 and 14 and player c plays holes 12 and 15 And then each each hole is worth a point basically, so you play they're gonna play all the holes So it's not like if you win seven and six that it ends you you play all the holes. Yeah, you get a total number of points. So there's a 42nd shot clock. I think they did this strictly to try to get TC's vote and approval on

this. I know you got to be a fan of that one TC. I mean, yeah, like, like, you're hitting shots into a screen. Like, I hope they can get it. I have a thing I'm playing under 40 seconds. Right? Is there wind? Is there wind? Is it like a big wave? Right? No, it would be sick if they had like a big, you know,

a big, I don't think it's going to be a true, I don't think there's going to be like true and show wind. I just mean, I think there's going to be like simulated wind, simulated wind. Yeah, I mean, can't is involved too, you know, sure. I mean, we got to get to the next one because I know TC is going to light up when he hears the next detail. Each team gets four time outs that could be used at any time, say if like Tiger Woods has a 10 foot putt to win a hole or win the match, you could call a timeout and ice him. Sorry, I was skipping ahead. I was thinking the person who's going to be policing those timeouts is I believe

there's a black and white shirted referee TC on zebra on zebra on the grounds, really enforcing the rules and enforcing any kind of, you know, I don't think they're taking drops. So I don't really know what type of rules issues they're going to run into. I'll be curious to kind of, you know, I don't think they're taking drops. So I don't really know what type of rules issues they're going to run into. I'll be curious to know like, you know, how long is it going to be a lot of drainage stitches that they're played out of it? This is ridiculous. This is simulated hole. I mean, there's there's 140 jacks under these, these, uh, 180 points short them on this. Oh, 180. I mean, at some point, I feel like these jacks are going to malfunction or there's going to be really tough to read these pots.

Uh, we'll see what happens. Like this sounds like the slime cup. Like an indoor slime cup. The slime cup was so you have to like it then because you like the slime. I really like the slime club, although I wish they would have taken other things from the slime cup. Like the slime. Yeah. We haven't gotten there yet. So I wish they would have taken other things from the sign cup. Like the slime.

Yeah. We haven't gotten there yet. They're rolling off the details very slowly on all of this. Maybe there will be slime. TC, I don't want to, you know, I don't have any spoilers on that for the remainder of this show. But, um, I want to get into the really exciting part who the investors are in this thing. Um, I help me out.

I don't know why I'm supposed to care about this. This feels like it's been really top billing on a lot of the releases that have come out of this is, you know, you don't get it. Here's who's involved with this. Not a lot of this gets me hyped other than Atlanta Drive GC is led by TC's guy Arthur Blank, an AMB sports entertainment. And I believe the captain of the team is the CEO of PGA Tour Superstores. Seriously. Yeah, that's about the highlight of this whole, this whole slow drip of, you know, just like just tell us what this thing is. No, we're going to make you look at 28 different press releases every month.

And I think it was my favorite nugget of the whole thing. The CEO of PGA tour superstar. He's like captain. And I think the captain asked to decide who's who's playing each week, because I don't think there's any subs or anything. So it's like if there's only three guys going for for Atlanta drive, like you got to decide who's going to sit. And I don't think the players are making that decision. So I guess it's the CEO of the of PGA tour superstores that's. are making that decision. So I guess it's the CEO of the BJ tour superstores. That's I loved it when JT was announced. I don't know if we do a media availability or not, but we'll have to see golf galaxy replied to the announcement and said something and I'm like, man, there's, you know, you guys know that the CEO of PGHR Superstore, your biggest rival.

One city, one team, TCE. I think they just want to get as many brands involved as possible, which I think is, you know, failproof strategy for, for captivating the audience. Boston Common Golf is led by John Henry, Tom Warner, Mike Gordon, and Fenway Sports Group. The Jupiter Golf Links, Jupiter Links GC is led by Tiger Woods as TGR ventures and David Blitzer of Philadelphia 76ers New Jersey Devils Cleveland Guardians, Washington commanders, Crystal Palace FC, Ray L. Salt Lake, Utah Royals, and Joe Gibbs racing. I don't I don't know if those are all separate things or all one combined thing and I don't

really want to know anymore. No, that's what so Fenway sports has like, you know, ownership. No, this is no, David. Yeah, blitzer blitzer has different, you know, blitzer, Josh Harris just bought the commanders. So blitzer, cones, the sixers with him and the devils. And then I think he's in with the with our guy, Qualtrics Ryan. Um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, I'm sure he's tabbed for expansion franchise at some point. And then I believe L.A. We've got Alex Ohanian and, and his wife Serena Williams and I think the onto the Kumpo brothers are involved.

We serenas married to Alex Ohanian. Yes. Yeah, dude. That's the time I never knew they were married. Yeah, I get out. Yeah. That's crazy. See, everyone's learned a little bit on this show tonight. I think Venus is involved in there somewhere. Alex Morgan. Alex Morgan. Show. We West. Right. Of course. TGL New York is led by Stephen Cohen, Of course, TGL New York is led by Stephen Cohen, Cohen private ventures. And then TGL San Francisco is a group led by Avenue Sports Fund with Mark Lazri, podcast

listener Stefan Curry, as well as limited partners Andre Guadala and Clay Thompson. I'm not sure what happened to Dremon here, but interesting. Maybe we're from the details about First question Lazarus a the box guy, right? I think he was maybe isn't anymore. I don't know. He sell out to Jimmy Haslin I'm not sure we'll take that over to the trap draw. He was a co-owner of the box. Yeah, correct Yeah, allegedly

I don't know if it was Lazier or someone from TGL, San Francisco said he they bought in for evaluation of the club that is more than 25 million less than a hundred million dollars. Again, I don't know what any of this means, but I just found that to be

somewhat interesting, which I has to mean the cliques are worth three billion. That's the first reaction I had. At least. So knowing all this, what's the vibe here? What's the check on this? Tell me how I'm supposed to feel about this, Deach,

I feel like you've invested more time than you could possibly imagine. You just sounded like Phil in the ship that quote, knowing all this, why would you proceed with a league like that? Okay, a lot of ways we could go, but I'll start with this. I weirdly am obsessed with this and really care about what happens. And I don't think that that's not necessarily because I think it's going to be really, really good or really, really bad. We can get into what I what I think down the road. But I do think it is a, it's a big deal because of all the people that

we just listed off because of all of the tour players that are involved because of the PJ tours involvement. I think it's a big deal. Like there aren't a lot of big swings like this. And I think this is going to take the place of a big swing in another area, right? And I guess where I'm going with that is like we like have talked at length on this podcast about the PJ tour product about trying to fix the telecast, about trying to fix the schedule, about trying to fix all kinds of different things about trying to create more stars, about trying to like make, you know, the game easier to consume for fans. I feel like instead of addressing most of those things,

they're doing this, right? And I don't think that they're necessarily doing anything to help, like the bottom of the funnel. I think they're just consistently trying to get more people into this giant funnel. And then it's kind of like, oh, yeah, I mean, they'll like trust me. Like it sucks to watch on TV. Like you're, you're going to hate it. But like we do need to try to get you into that funnel eventually.

Yeah, I would say they just created a totally different funnel. I mean, maybe, but what is that funneling towards? Like, I think this is all funneling towards the PGA tour, which I think is one of its biggest like strengths and biggest weaknesses, right? Like, that was kind of the thing with Liv was, it was a very joky, unserious, like stupid thing that people were dedicating their entire careers to, which is where I think we were like, okay, this is a massive waste of Brooks Keppga and Cam Smith and Dustin Johnson and all of these guys time and energy. This is not that. This is not replacing the PGA tour, like by any means. In fact,

I think there's going to be a lot of friction about with tournament sponsors, with organizers, with like TV people probably about like, whether this ends up taking any juice away from the PJ tour, which I think is a really interesting topic to unpack, right? Because I think the first time that you have, you know, a bay hill or a Riviera or a phoenix or a whatever kind of say like, well, what the fuck, man? Like this guy was supposed to play in the program on Wednesday, but he didn't because he had to do TGL stuff. I think there's going to start to be like some some issues, right?

And I think everything's like kind of one big happy family now. I think the PJ tour is like, this is an massive marketing engine for our players. And it's a great chance for people to get to know Colin Moore, Kawa a little bit better. This is an massive marketing engine for our players. And it's a great chance for people to get to know Colin Moorakawa a little bit better and all of these other guys. But I just think it's a really, really interesting way to go about it. And I think that's where I'm trying very, very, very hard to be wait and see. I absolutely don't want to like bury anything

before we've seen it. So I don't know what's going to happen. I mean, I think it sounds stupid. I think it sounds pretty dumb, but I think we can have a very interesting conversation about whether what I think matters and whether it's for me or not. But yeah, I think it's a big deal that there's this much time, energy, money, enthusiasm put behind it,, I think there, I just, I think it's a big deal that there's this much time, energy, money, enthusiasm put behind it because I think a lot of those people that we listed off, Yannis, Serena Williams, Steph Curry, Steve Cohen, all of these people are like,

I was not supposed to be ironic, but I think a, that's a big list of people that I think the PJ tour would be like, God, if we could get them to like take the PJ tour and golf super seriously, that would be so awesome for us. And this is the route that they're choosing to do it. So I think it's very interesting to see if like that kind of marketing engine actually has any like gas tied to it. Or if it's just, you know what I'm saying? Like if people can like,

tweet their way into this being like an interesting thing, or if like real actual human fans just kinda are like, that's cool man, I'm gonna go do something else. I feel, I don't know if I see it as the PGA tour marketing arm that I think you maybe see it see it as again, we don't know what this really is. I don't know. I don't really mean that like PGA tour ink. I just mean like PGA tour golf in general. Yeah. I don't know if trying to cash in on that in a really big way. I feel like, yeah,

I just, I don't know if like top billing would be like, we're trying to get more people to watch PGA tour golf through this, right? I think this is a little bit of waving the white flag of, hey, I don't know how we're gonna resolve like a very broken system over on this side of the house. Persons are enormous, media rights are enormous, companies that pay the media rights, wanna run commercials up against it. There's 7,000 golf balls in play all at the same time,

spanning 7,500 yards of golf courses. None of those issues are going away from the PGA tour and professional golf at large. I think the only one of the only ways to grow it is a totally different product that is, hey, here's the TV window. Here is where we're going to play it. Do I think screen golf sounds pretty silly? Sure, but do I like the idea of, Hey, every, I'm going to see every golf shot. I know exactly how long it's going to take. I know who's going to be there on certain nights. And it's relatively harmless prime time viewing. And it is a totally separate thing that, you know, as long as it does, I think some of your concerns are very valid

of eating it, eating into a little bit of the PGA tour during this prime part of the year. Yet at the same time, it's like, how else was golf, whatever that means, that can mean PGA tour golf or pro golf, how else was it going to grow without some kind of trying something new? And I think we've long been proponents of trying something new. I don't think this is what we would have come up with. But that's at least got me to the point of saying, curious to see how this goes. I'm curious if it is for me. I don't have this is what we would have come up with. But that's at least got me to the point of saying, curious to see how this goes. I'm curious if it is for me. I don't have an answer to that right now.

I don't think necessarily that it is, but I don't think full swing was for me and it was wildly popular, extremely popular with non hardcore golf fans. And I think this can have that effect, can be really cool. I've certainly thought about it a lot. I don't know if I've thought about it as much as you have Dej, but I'm a little optimistic on that to say like, all right, we've long since called for some different things. Here's something we'll see if this works. T.C.

Yeah, I think I'm largely aligned there with like, hey, I don't think it's taking a whole lot off the table. We'll see how they manage through that stuff. I have some, we'll get there. Some major questions about scheduling or about, you know, laces on the east coast, right? How does, and the primarily, uh, the spring stuff is, is over on the west coast. Our guys are going to fly from Hawaii back here. And then, you know, I would imagine that was probably a reason for ROM withdrawing from it. When tiger's not involved, is that gonna be, I think it'll be a home run when Tiger's there, at least the first, or will the novelty of it wear off?

I've heard some troubling things about the technology, not being quite ready for prime time, from insiders, and we'll see. I think the biggest concern I have is some of the self seriousness of it. Like I'm totally prepared to watch this as a breezy Monday or Tuesday night thing with Freddie and, and, you know, it's a self-contained deal. I'm not going to take it too seriously, but like you know that some of of the the upside baked into this is on the gambling front down, you know, down the stretch or, you know, and like the way that they're treating

these releases and the way that they're they're talking about this kind of breathlessly is like this revolutionary framework and concept and and league is like, all right, you know, like, are we talking about the same thing here? Because it's, you know, it's not, and I totally get it. Like, I don't watch eSports. I'm not a big video game guy. I don't really like playing screen golf all that much, like, unless it's just to practice. And, you know, so yeah, it's probably not for me. But what I worry is that like the novelty wears off, and it's just these guys go into the motions, you know, the sixth week or the third season,

and it's like, man, like what are we doing here? I share your concerns on the self-seriousness. I think I was more hopeful that it wouldn't be this self-serious or the franchises wouldn't't be real and the the competitors wouldn't be real I've tried to equate it to like a member guest in terms of like I mean you're there first to have fun entertain enjoy the people you're with yet But like when you get to the end like you want to fucking win right like you there's an element of competitiveness to it Which I think is probably a pretty important throughline to it. It seems to be a weirdly strong driver of it that I think is really difficult.

When you don't have a draft, when you don't have any understanding of how the teams come together, when you don't know what team you're supposed to be pulling for in any way, that's a really, really tricky part. And at the end of the day, it is screen golf. So like, and what's the like, what's the bearing or the tie to any of the cities? Right? You know? I think the other thing too is if they didn't like live kind of give you a blueprint for for certain shit not to do, I'm like, hey, like hire some good graphic designers, like come up with good team names or good branding. And like

that that's certainly not happening. Sorry, but you are wearing a cleaks hat right now and I just like, yeah, I'd stop laughing about that. Yeah, I mean, you know, like I'm wearing the cleaks hat kind of ironically, but kind of unironically, Like the fire balls, that fire branding, I like that. But the Boston common, like the golf, like the seriousness with which they sent out that press release the other day, where the frog has a golf ball. And it's like below its mouth and it's a little thing there.

And then, you know, it symbolizes this and that. I don't know. It's like, it's not, it's not a good logo. It's not well, it's not well designed. The video of Mark how I talking about that, you know, this is one of the biggest honors of my life. You know, I've, I got the writer cup call. This is right up there with that. Like that, that's where it's like, we just kind of, I mean,

I was, that was a tipping point. That was one that it was, oh, no, this, this, this might be. That's so off-putting. To oversimplify it. Like, we just got done doing 15 podcasts about these guys maybe didn't even take the Ryder Cup seriously. Like, you're going to take the fucking screen golf seriously. And that's where I think a lot of the stuff just kind of ends up like, I don't know, there's

just a stink about it to me of like a lot of people with like a really sharp presentation deck kind of getting to the end of it. And me like, well, you know, like idiots will watch this. Like, yeah, I know it's not for me. And it's not for you. And it's not for like, I don't know anybody who would watch it. But like, you know, idiots will watch it. And that's how a lot of this stuff just ends up feeling to me is like, I feel like the,

That's how a lot of this stuff just ends up feeling to me is like I feel like the teams are not built for like the teams feel like they're built around the schedules of the players rather than like what's actually interesting for fans. The competition feels like it's built around the schedules of, you know, the players rather than what's interesting for fans. A lot of the stuff feels like it's built around, the interests of the venture capitalists funding the teams, which is not all that interesting. And it just feels like so many other things in golf where it's like the fans are gonna end up being

like the 17th or 18th priority here, which is where I think we're kinda just gonna, we're just probably doomed to be stuck in the middle between. No, no, no, no, it's super serious, or you know, it's super silly and fun and super low stakes and also like these guys wanna win. Here's some Instagram videos about it. And that's, it just feels like it's gonna be kind of

in that weird middle ground, but you know, who knows? Again, Tronon with you, like, if they're making it for kids and they're making it for like, hey, here's a great way to get to know tour players and here's a great way to, you know, watching accessible, sped up version of the game, all for it. Sounds awesome.

That sounds like a brilliant way to do it. But as soon as it becomes like, this is a big time equity play because golf is such a valuable property is where as soon as it becomes like, this is a big time equity play, because golf is such a valuable property is where I start to get to like, okay, well, maybe golf's just like meant to be sort of a niche sport. And everybody who tries to do this ends up looking like a fucking idiot. And I guess we'll see. Yeah, I feel like an element of this is like the new found popularity of golf that's come from

in the last three or four years from really from COVID. Golf loves to pat itself on the back for how popular it is right now and all the things that they're getting right, which just ignore the previous nine, 10 years of just straight down decline pre-COVID of everything from golf course developments, participation rates, golf courts course closures, all that. And there, but there is a very real like celebrity interest in golf. It feels like every athlete, tons of celebrities, it just feels like everyone has gotten a little taste of golf in some way, right? And again, I don't, the part I don't play them for is just like putting their hands up and

be like, yeah, we, like, we know this shit sucks over here. And it's just not going to get better. So like, how, if all these people are getting into the funnel in some way, where can we point these people that is not 18 minutes of Morgan Stanley commercials per hour? And that, you know, I watched, and I've put out a lot of calls for people to watch this, mostly in relation to the PGL and and with Liv the the Explain documentary on Netflix about cricket and the invention of 2020 trick cricket also called T20 cricket and how they took this

Old stodgy sport with all these antiquated rules and funny outfits and all these things and this game It took way too long to play it takes five days to play a test match and distilling it down into one, three hour match with 20 overs. That is basically like, all right, you know exactly how long this match is gonna last. And like a man like fuck that. It's still played outdoors.

It's still kind of played by the same rules in general and it's not going to end or screen cricket game. So it's not a perfect parallel, but it is just kind of a shocking rewatch now as this thing is about to launch to say, all right, T20 cricket against a lot of odds has been wildly popular worldwide and has become like the premier brand of cricket. And if golf is to take an enormous leap, this may be closer to the way than the green grass golf way. Do I have doubts that it will, of course, but I don't know. That's where I come back to like, I'm at least curious to see how this kind of trends things. It's funny to me where like,

like we're talking about this and talking about it makes me angry that the PGA tour doesn't ever try anything new of like, cool, like, why don't we try it? Like if a 42nd shot clock clocks a good idea, why don't we try something like that in an actual tournament? You know, why don't we try like look at baseball, baseball evolved the hell out of their rules and just you know, looked at some of the challenges and obstacles they were facing over the last 20, 30 years of decline and helped turn that around this year. And it's, it's done wonders for the game, you know, but there's no emphasis. It's all just like, yeah, let's just package it all up into this thing that all it, like it seems like it's just trying to fill this void after football, right? It's like football seasons over

PGA towards terrified of going up against football. And it's also like this is in, you know, maybe it'll work well where it's in conjunction with the West Coast swing, which by and large is the best part of the golf, like of the PGA tour schedule by far. But what I'm struggling with is like, you know, looking at the, at the, What I'm struggling with is like, you know, looking at the at the so these are all live competitions, correct? Yes. Looking at the schedule, like our guys, so all right, all the guys that are playing century, which is most of the guys, you know, Rory doesn't usually play century, but like most of the guys on the list of whatever 24, 25 guys playing in this thing are playing century in

Capulua. And then, you know, a lot of them don't play Sony, but they're all gonna basically fly from Hawaii, take a red eye, fly from Hawaii to Florida for the first one of these or two teams worth, right? Yeah, so it only be six guys and it would be Tuesday night. So that one actually feels pretty realistic to me And then I think a lot of them are gonna be on the Florida like when you're in Florida for the Florida swing So that's where I the rom thing is interesting to me. I don't know if we want to go there They're not getting to the Florida swing tool. I mean, so like how long is this season? Do we even know? It's 15 weeks 15 weeks. Okay, so the first one, two, three, four,

five, six, seven, eight, first eight weeks, half the season, they, they're on the West Coast. Yes. But also you're playing, you're only playing in a third, which is I, I think like an issue, but like, you're only playing in a third of the matches, right? There's two matches playing each time in their six teams. So you're only playing in a third of the matches. And of those third of the matches, you're sitting at least what, one, one and a half kind of on average. Yeah. So you're talking, you know, one, maybe two inconvenient trips for a lot of these dudes that, again, and the end result is that you end up going to play a two hour screen golf match in West Palm.

They're flying them, I think they're flying them private, you know, two and from. They're getting them to where they need to be. I'm less concerned about that part as I am just like, all right, dude, I don't know. There's a million other concerns other than just that, I think. And the whole, like, the city's part just feels, I see what they're doing and they're trying to get people invested in it or give them a reason to, you know, care or find an allegiance, like,

kind of have an easier way into that. But at the end of the day, it also feels kind of cheap and kind of, you know, kind of short cutie of like, that's, you know, like, it's like Arthur Blank and JT, you're going to be down on the sidelines with the CEO of PGA Tour Superstore, like, you know, Rob, you know, you're people from Atlanta are going to be, you know, rooting them on. No, I agree. That's the stuff that is like, I guess you could call it a learning from live because other than you, I haven't met very many cleeks fans out there. So at least it like the live stuff was like, yeah, of course, I'm not going to pick like in allegiance to any of these teams because like all these guys are super unlikeable and, you know, it's all completely arbitrary.

You know, it's all completely arbitrary. And that's right, I'm with you. Like the city stuff feels very cheap to me. I guess it's at least like some sort of anchor point, right? And at least give some people some reason to at least like even know what the teams are. I thought Joel Beale wrote a really good piece for golf digest about a lot of this stuff that people should go check out.

But I mean, at least like if you're in Boston, at least a reason to understand like that this thing exists probably, right? I mean, that's better than starting from nowhere, because I think having a lot of these like pretty boring players on arbitrary teams just really gives you like no reason to to think through any of it. So it's, I don't know, man, it's, it's weird. I think there's a lot of things I, I do like and trying to like, again, not, not bury it before it's done, like a, or before it starts. Like I think there's going to be a lot to like, I think the tiger

stuff we've talked about this for months and months, but like probably the most reliable way you're going to see tiger, you know, hitting golf shots is here where he does. Ryan versus he's going to win. Well, that's true. Well, that notwithstanding, those are some epic tweets. I would recommend people go to seek out. I think the Tiger stuff is cool. I think the team golf stuff is, I think we've been pretty on the record that like, we're not anti-live because we're anti anti live because our anti team golf.

Like I think that is actually really fun. I think the thing that makes live stinky is the fact that again, like I said earlier, just kind of like fractured the entire like kind of kind of, that's just kind of. The other thing I think again, not to make all of this like a direct comparison to live, but it's, it's a pretty natural comp. I think one of the problems with live was that it, it weirdly wasn't like different enough from the PJ tour, right? It painted itself as like this totally disruptive thing that is going to totally revolutionize golf. Golf's too stodgy, it takes too long, it's too boring,

we're changing all that by not changing anything about the competition, right? So like slugger white. Yeah, Like it still has all the waiting between shots. It still has all of the reading putts. It still has all of those things. The music. Yeah, sure. I added the shorts. Don't discount the shorts. But in the last pop, you're getting a lot of stuff here, dude. I mean, God, I forgot the flash. This is not a very good looking to what Liv golf is all about.

The watering hole. I mean, God, I forgot the flash. This is not a very good look into what Liv golf is all about. The watering hole. You know what the closest thing I'm like, the more I think about it, the closest thing, you guys remember the movie, Basekeball. That's a great cop. It's like exactly. I could see people going nuts for it and it feels like, feels like Basekeball. It's like one of my favorite movies. I love baseball.

God. For JT's mom, go that was squeak. God, that's a great comp. I'm going to have to watch that movie. I think the TV schedule's good. Tell it, you mentioned that. You know, knowing when you're starting, knowing when you're finishing. I think all that stuff's great.

The format's fine, and I think like the, you know, appeal to kids is great. I think that's anything else on the big flashing like things that you like. I think there is a huge difference between must see TV and like harmless viewing to throw on TV, right? I mean, that's what I mean. This is way closer to harmless viewing to throw on TV, right? I mean, that's what I'm saying. This is way closer to harmless viewing to throw on TV than it's gonna be like, dude, did you see the TGL match last night?

And it's like, dude, there is a void to fill after football season ends. And yeah, like it sports programming, it's from some familiar faces. And I think it's just gonna be like, probably have it on and you don't even know if you need the sound on to just be a little curious as to what happens. But I guess that's where I, yeah, I don't know.

I'm not trying to have my expectations like too high, but I guess that's where I come back to my original point of like, if you have all of this time money, effort, cooperation involved, and like what you're getting is like, yeah, you know what? Wasn't terrible. Feels like such a massive waste. You know, like I think that's kind of where my frustration lies

because I'm totally with you. The stakes are not that high, right? Maybe it'll stink, maybe it'll be fine. It'll probably be somewhere in the middle. That's great. But I think like that's kind of what I was saying earlier. It's like golf doesn't have that many chances to get all of these Like influential people rowing in the same direction and if if we wind up with something that's just like

Yeah, I don't know I watched the first couple and then I kind of forgot that that was a thing It feels like a massive L. Yeah, I Agree with that. I think there's also going back to like certain certain shit's not for me. Like I get it the way that they've released stuff of like they're on the stack, you know, on the headline stack on ESPN.com, you know, every week when they lead the stuff out. And just because it's I'm tired of getting the press released, it doesn't mean that there's not rhyme or reason to it. It feels like some of it's not for me in that like they're trying to create FOMO or doubt like with other investors and with other billionaires or hedge fund guys of like, hey, you know what? Like you want to own a sports franchise? Here's a way instead of

having to spend, you know, $800 million on an NHL team or, you know, $2 billion on an NBA team, you know? So you totally get that. That's a basic quality if it's dead. But man, it's just, it's just, it's so funny to me to think of like Steve Cohen and John Henry sitting there like, you know, court side or whatever you call it, T side, you know, and then like part of the thing too is like a lot of these guys aren't interesting. Well, these guys, we haven't really talked about that. That's like one of the biggest selling points, right? And I feel like that was one of the things we talked about really early on,

if I'm remembering correctly, is like, uh, Tiger will be there. Tiger's going to carry everything. People tune in for Tiger, etc., etc. Well, it turns out like he might only be there. Tigers gonna carry everything. People tune in for Tiger, et cetera, et cetera. Well, it turns out like he might only be there for like one third of the broadcasts, which is kind of a weird, that feels like a weird just decision, right? To do it that way. I mean, I know why they probably did it that way

and a lot of it's based on schedules and they couldn't get that, like guys coming over for that many weeks. But I don't know maybe Tiger will be like all-time quarterback as someone said maybe he'll be a zeroed out. He's wide to wide, but he'll be, I don't know, maybe he'll be like an in-house MC that's just driving over every week, but I don't know. That's that's a weird one because to your point, Tron, it's like a lot of the other guys are there that are there. I don't know how much I really need the mic up to be totally honest. The one final positive I'll put in this camp and this was kind of how I felt about this a year ago when things were a lot more influx in the golf world. Maybe and I don't know. They maybe they're more influx now. I just I have no idea what's going on in the golf world, maybe, I don't know, they maybe they're more in flux now. I just, I have no idea what's going on in the golf world now,

but it was at least a point in the W column to say, like, hey, for those that stayed on the PGA tour, this is like a chance for some side, equities slash side cash, your side piece, if you will. You know, you're married to the PGA tour, but this is your side piece. And in terms of like retaining the top talent on one tour is like the main like in bright lights, the main goal I would want out of professional golf as a whole. And if this helps prevent, you know, even more of a fracture, Matt still

think the talent shift is heavily in favor of the PGA tour versus live controversial. I know, but the more it gets to 50, 50, the worse it is for everyone in golf, I think except for the fans of Pretend to love live. And if this means like it, it helps retain, I know, Cantlain, Xander are necessarily the most popular players among Skull fans right now, but I still think it'd be worse if those guys went to live. And if it helps retain the likes of the guys that were maybe fence setting the Cameron Youngs, helps them get paid in some way. I still consider that a positive. We don't really know how much about,

like we don't know much about how they're getting paid. Do we? No. No. That's where I think a lot of the team. It is, but I think that's where a lot of this like weird disconnect comes from for me is like, if the, if a lot of the value is like equity

in these teams or something, then that would probably explain like the self seriousness for the teams. And that to me, like teasing that out further, like I think it just explains further why I think it would be like doomed to like kind of flop, right? It's like the more serious you take it in order to drive like personal equity for yourselves, like the less fun it's gonna be, just like by definition, which again, like we shouldn't discount the fact that like,

this could be just like a very funny failure as well. And I'm like, kind of here for that. I'm kind of here for a lot of these like people who have not made a wrong move in 15 years, you know, investment-wise, like, except for Steve Cohen, kind of becoming like, you know, just a little bit of a laughing stock, I think would be pretty funny.

I've kind of here for that. I've kind of here for some of these like, tour players who have grossly, disgustingly overvalued like their own value in the game of golf to kind of end up looking like idiots. I think would be kind of fun. So, you know, again, I'm not rooting for it to fail by any means, but I do think there's like kind of positives on either side, whether it's whether it's great or whether it flops. I think there's I think there's going to be a lot of reasons to watch.

I think there's also, I mean, teasing it out on the on the opposite side of, hey, what if down the line at landed drive hosts a PGA tour event or, you know, Boston, common golf hosts a PGA tour event like they, you know, like thinking about tournaments as equity endeavors, you know, you know, whether that's a Honda classic goes over to, you know, Jupiter links golf club. Like Adam Schupac had a, had a great piece this week about, you know, kind of the future of that tournament and the tour, hoping to take it under, you know, the, the championship management umbrella and owned and operated for the PJ tour, for profit, all that. You know, that, that's

an interesting thought. Plus, you know turns into a way to vet different equity groups as far as getting them involved with the tour on some level. And they turn the tournaments or they turn different elements into almost like franchises. Because that's the other thing is like, you know, Fenway sports group, not to be confused with Fenway partners, which is doing, you know, they're in the mix with all the other stuff on the PGA tour side, you know, it feels like

it feels like there's a lot of private equity sloshing around there and, you know, and then also like, you know, these, these, these owners are, you know, like it's, it's, it's a way for, like I guarantee you can't lay is going to be on the TGL New York team. I guarantee it, like him and Steve Cohen are me thickest these. What are you think is these? Again, a lot of like a lot of what's like thrown out about this, a lot of what has been focused on to this point still like the bottom line for almost everything we do in this podcast. Okay, this is going to be cool for fans or not, right? If it is going to be like entertaining and fun and fun for fans or not. And like I get that they're really hyped about the technology aspect of this. I get that they're really hyped about the technology aspect of this. Get that they're hyped about. Players mic'd up and all that and there's there's there's enough thrown out there to in a perfect world. Say, yeah, this is for fans.

I just think that it's also watered down so much by like the thought that we would care this much about who the owners are. And I'm sorry, we didn't spend enough time on the more a cow of video. Like that was such an abomination. Like all you had to do was not do the Taylor Gooch, like this, like Ryder Cup comparison of this. Like that's, and you haven't even hit one. The arenas I even built yet.

And he said, I just got chills through my body. I don't think I've ever answered a call like this. I mean, I got my Ryder Cup call this year, but this, I think this tops it almost. And on an obviously stage FaceTime call that like if it was a bit, it could have been really funny. It just was definitely, definitely, definitely not a bit. And it was, that was the moment

where I started to get a little worried about this thing, because it was, uh, is that's, and the Atlanta drive GC welcome video with Chipper Jones and our guy Matt Ryan, that was also not it. Um, neither of which is involved with the team, by the way. Just like before we knew, we still don't know who's on Atlanta drive, just like, are you in? But I don't fucking know what I'm getting in on. Like, what are you asking me this question? I think what's hard, I know all the reasons why this didn't happen. I know things are probably not done yet.

Yada, yada, yada. But like if everything's as cool as I am led to believe, how about you show me one person hitting a fucking shot into with like showing off all of this technology. Feel like that one. That's when the technology free, and a shot doesn't get counted. I don't know what I'm doing.

I'm really doing basically. It's like, there's a pizza on the roof. Uh, I think that the, like, how, how much would that like, assuage a lot of my like concerns, right? If everything's like as cool as Everybody's telling me like just just show it to me as you're rolling stuff out Hey, here's why you should care who's on each team because here's what the product is and again

It's like every fucking thing in golf. I think that's why I'm like so pessimistic about this is it all just starts with like A bunch of people in a boardroom talking about like oh, yeah people like it trust me Trust me. Like, trust me. I know what people like. They'll definitely like this. And that's where I'm like, there's got to be some human beings involved at some point that like, actually have a product to watch that they think is really useful and cool and like worth their time. And that just again, I'm not willing to say that that's what this is. I just gestures wildly at everything in golf over the past 30 years. Like I just don't think a lot of these people have earned the benefit of the doubt. It's that like this is going to be some awesome revolutionary thing that makes me totally

reconsider, you know, the sport. And we have, we have the match. The match is fine. Right. The match started out in the exact, and that, the sport. And we have, we have the match. The match is fine. Right. The match started out in the exact, and that's exactly right. They, they all start out in the same way. Like, no, no, no, trust me. This isn't for you.

This, this is going to bring in the casual fans. They're going to love it. No, trust me. This isn't for you. This is going to, this is going to change everything. And it just, they all get like watered down by, it's all you just said it, but like they all get watered down by the interests of like the people who are doing it.

And well, we'd love to do it this way, but we can't because this person said we can't yada yada yada. It's a corporate network. It's involved. Then the network's getting involved. And they all just end up in the same way. So maybe that won't happen this time. Maybe it'll all get pushed through.

And it'll be convincing myself the US is going to win in Europe. But a writer kept it. It'll be different this time. Maybe it will. Maybe it's already sponsored. They haven't announced anything about this. They haven't seen them. It's already presented by TGL.

There's a billion sponsors to everything already, which like you have to commend. And that's where I also am just like, yeah, maybe it'll be a huge success because golf is just like a never ending runaway money making machine. And it's actually live. Look at how much money is already being spent up this screen. Golf leave. The link is live as almost still almost no sponsors outside of that. No, they're taking calls every day.

They're going to rig it out the hook. They should get that company that oil, that Mexican oil company that wants to sponsor a low fireball. No, they want to sponsor the other one that walk goes on. It's okay. Come on. Oh, so I don't know. That's kind of, I think, my general vibe. Like, the optimist read is like, there's so many important influential people involved, and this could totally bring the sport to a brand new audience.

I'm totally here for that. I think the pessimist read is like, this is gonna be like everything else that happens in the game of golf and it's gonna get watered down and probably turn it into like a wasted opportunity. I wanted to be like everything else that happens in the game of golf and it's going to get watered down and probably turn it into like a wasted opportunity. I wanted to be good. I think we're rooting for it to be good. I'm not rooting against it.

Totally. I'm with you. What do we make? We haven't talked much about ROM. It was originally committed to this. Mysteriously, it was not listed on the website anymore. What's out of statement says, you know, to do scheduling conflicts. He's no longer going to be involved.

Any anything to make of this? Yeah, he's got a, you know, he's taken over the iron heads. You think Kevin knowledge is going to let that happen? Yeah. See you on Kim's out. Kevin knows out. They got the cap space Gonna be a worse to first. Oh

I don't know it's I'm sure it was like he's got two young kids and he's probably like that's where I feel like all right Rom you know, Rom's defending it Mexico or he's defending it. Like he normally always plays Amex. There's some like, there's, he typically always plays Phoenix. Like I'm sure he's just like, honestly, like, if these things good, I'll join in year two. Yeah. And, you know, but like, like I want to win majors.

I want to prep for the major season. I think there's something want to prep for the major season. I think there's something to be said for the fact that Rob's not doing it. Scottie's not doing it. Hovelin's not doing it. Speech's not doing it. I just also want to correct the record. Big tone is defending it.

The Mexican Open, not Rob's right. Big tone defeated John Romitz. It's big tone doing it. Big tone's not doing it. Big tone is not listed in there. I think some of the guys thatance. This big tone doing it. Big tone is not doing it. Big tone is not listed in there. I think some of the guys that are geographically tone not doing it. I think made for him some of the like not a lot of Arizona representation. Max is Max the only Arizona guy.

I don't know where everyone lives off top of my head. Kingdom Clark. Windom Clark. That sounds correct. Tom Kims of Vegas guy maybe. Is that correct? Yeah. Ricky lives in Jupe,

Fitzpatrick lives in Jupe. Rose, where is he? He's Rose in Orlando. Oh man. Okay. Orlando, is he in Bahamas? Yeah.

Where does Andrew? He's in Florida I think. Or is he California? I think he's in San Diego. Yeah. Where does he enter? He's in Florida, I think. Or is he California? He's in San Diego or California. Yeah. You might be right. I don't know. Max is Arizona. Horseshooter. Ponovidra. Can't lose Jupiter. Tommy Ladd. He has a place in Florida, doesn't he? Tommy's, I think, a Jupiter Orlando and Dubai and would think you would know this T.C. But Shane Lowry's Joupe saw it as Houston. I don't remember Kim Young lives. I don't know. I saw this. Saw this the big United guy. Seriously. Who's going to end up being a big winner of this, he think?

Well, like, all right. First, who's going to be on each team? So like, Oh god, his name is definitely going to be on the Atlanta team, right? Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. I would assume that there's like a rhyme and reason why some of this gets gets lined up. Can I have a different question? These people that bought in money, where does that money go?

Like is that just towards building the stadium and like, or is that go straight up to players up front? As as fun the operation and then yeah, I would think it, I mean, there's got to be a ton of like upfront cost getting stuff actually like going, right? Yeah, but I mean, if 16, if it's a little stadium and more than 25,000 less than 100, let's call it 50 mill six times 300 mil start this whole thing. Mike McCarley might be washed right now. I have no idea. Yeah, it's a good question. There's a lot of unanswered questions on kind of like the financial, you know,

just set up the whole thing. I do want to be. Yeah. What, T.C. What do you think the cat meant when he said he wanted Jupiter links to reflect the culture of his hometown? Because all I can think is going to the woods and see all those waiters with the white belts and pass it out the hot towels. All I can think is that that

Remember that golf digest like Couple years ago Photo wasn't even a picture. Like a moderate shot and all those just ghouls in that canal side. You know, I mean, shit, how is how is MJ not not part of this? He's down in jupe. Honestly, given his ownership record, I think that is one of the one of strongest things that TGL has going so far.

Well, you will people watch this. You think people are going to watch this? I get on the record for this. You think it's going to be a ratings hit, ratings average, ratings flop. Do you have the slam ball numbers, Deach? I mean, like 100,000 people watch slam ball. 160,000, the last. That's great. Everybody's just like, oh my god, the Tani is P.A. It's going to be a lot of people watching this? It's like, you can file PGA torvents, like 1999 anymore. Like this stuff is changed dramatically. I don't think like, I don't know, like, Tron is Freddie just like dialing up ESPN, just like, I'm going to sit in front of the TV and just like see what's on for the next half hour, waiting for my program to come on. And guess what he's just dialing up a YouTube

and that's pretty much it. But totally. I will say, I think there'll be a big turnout for the first couple, and I think it's gonna slowly fizzle. Because I, again, if you want me to like change my mind on that like I'm gonna have to see a little bit of like what it looks like what it actually is. So the ratings for women's college volleyball regular season on ESPN average 206,000 viewers. players. Um, the, I'm just looking at like the top 38 ESPN shows. It's like all most all talk shows other than NFL

regular season games. And if I were to season games are King, my night kickoff, my night post, my night post game college game day college football afternoon, those make out the rest of the top five in NBA regular season. Then the rest are all like NFL countdown, Monday night countdown, College of ball scoreboard, College of ball prime, pardon the interruption, CFP ranking show Sports Center weekend, they have NBA courtside first take Sports Center 12 a.m. NBA pregame get up Sports Center special sports center earlier around the horn Sports Center 1 a.m.

like it's the live sports on ESPN. They don't have a lot to begin with. You have to go all the way back down to an MBA. No, because like the next one rated one is the women's college volleyball regular season at 36 with 206,000 people watching. Well, I guess some of it is like, you know, is this taking the place of what they'd be doing college basketball? Would they be doing an MBA during this time slot? And also, I guess it's not as important as it used to be ESPN or ESPN2, ESPN360 and people can kind of watch whatever and who knows what the ratings are on the

on the streaming stuff versus television. I don't know. I'm just, it's like, how do you take it seriously if, like, what are the courses going to look like in like the screen of like, are they going to try to be like, all right, we're playing in Boston. So it's going to have, you know, it's going to look like Boston or a home team is Los Angeles and it looks like they're playing at Wilshire or something like that. Like that's a super interesting element, right? Of like what kind of designs are they gonna be playing? Is it gonna, what's it gonna prioritize?

What's it gonna be? Because like all those variables and inputs that you're inputting into the simulator or the launch monitor or whatever. Those are all real things. I think I have a fun chance to do some fun stuff. I don't know if they will. Didn't they?

I mean, I don't think that was a joke earlier, right? Didn't they sign like Nicholas designs to do the holes? I've heard of a different design firm, so I'm a person that is going to be involved in some way. I think I think the, I'd be shocked. I'd be very surprised that they didn't do something fun with the design, right? Like you have no challenge. Like this is not a real, it's not real golf. You can do wild ass golden t-shirt. Like there's not, give me

some reason. I heard the golden t-people. Yeah, exactly. Like you can do some Mario golf shit. Like that was kind of like it was sweet. I kind of want to play that as soon as I got out loud. I would hope they don't do just standard. If they, I'll be eight, I'll say it's now. I'll be out if they bring in Reese Jones to do this. I'll say that on record. I'm willing to put that on record. Do you think people are gonna watch it, Solly? I am, I think the first two weeks will do quite well.

I would think. And then I think, I don't know, as soon as it's not a Tiger week, like leading up to whatever the first Tiger week is, it'll do pretty well. As soon as it's not a Tiger week. And it's like, dude, why am I Lucas Glovers playing in this match against, you know, Kevin Kisder and Menwooli. And I just, I don't know, I struggled to see it. It really carrying the day, but I don't know, could be wrong, could very well, could be wrong. We'll see. Like I'm digging through here on some press releases,

Nicholas Design announces exclusive partnership with full swing simulators, which is the simulator company. So you gotta think that they're gonna be at least somewhat involved in this. That is clearly not good. Not good. That's not good. If that is the case. We'll give a chance to give any final wraps here. The merch are going to kill me that I waited this long to get this end. But this episode is presented by the No Laying Up Pro Shop. If you haven't bought from us in the past,

it is a great time to take a spin around the shop store.nolayingup.com. We got new Holderness and Born Fall apparel. Sounds like I need to get in there actually. Limited edition foot joy apparel. We got head covers, ladies gear, towels, tees, socks, and more. Really pumped about the fall collections that are coming in over this next month, the restock

we did on our best selling quarters, hips and workout t shirts, the pro shop holiday promo goes live Friday, VR email newsletter. We will run through cyber Monday. You can sign up at newsletter dot no, laying up dot com to get early holiday deals in the NLU pro shop. Any but parting thoughts you see just came across something else that he's finding quite entertaining.

Just so deep down the wormhole, baseball, like I want to basically fall at night. I know. I was thinking about that too. But the fictional teams in baseball are Dallas felons, the Detroit lemons, Los Angeles riots, the Miami dealers and walkie beers. That's of course, uh mats team. The, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the you know, the whole thing. There's that, there's that, there's that child labor controversy where they were making the apparel or the basekipals over in Calcutta, India. Oh, man. I don't know. So you get a go for night one. Probably not. I mean, I don't know, probably not. Seven. When's it start the seventh January night? This was all covered in class earlier. TC. Come on. TC play. Not in the stars. For the capital of the sixth. Plays. TC is back to play on his phone. Not pay attention to class. All right. We got to wrap this up. This was a fun look into DGL,

good to get our thoughts out on paper and on the airwaves. Any final party thoughts? No, I think it's gonna be interesting to see what happens. I mean, I know I sound like a, I don't mean to sound like a big pessimist. Like I am rooting for it to be good. I also don't want to gloss past some of the pretty big red flags that I feel like are kind of sticking out of the ground.

But listen, I'll be excited to see people hit the first shot. I'll be excited to see the cat out there. I'll be excited to see Max out there. It'll be fun. But they're going to need to bring the noise and do something pretty far outside the box, I think with like, I think the big thing that we try to say this a lot, but it's like, as soon as you start to get into that pool of like, no, no, no, no, no, like, this isn't for golf fans, this is for casual fans. Now all of a sudden you're competing with everything else that casual fans can do and spend their time doing. And that's where I kind of just have an inkling that most of the people involved here are pretty systemically built to cater to me and golf fans. And I think once they get outside of that bubble, it's really freaking hard. And

that's where I think some of my my pessimism wise, but we will see. We will certainly see Max has to be on the LA team, right? I don't know. I mean, that's a dynasty. If you have him in college, and he is that who's going to is the commission? What's the PJ tour superstar guy? I get to say about that. You like I would hope that the Williams draft. What's got? I know that's such a mess. It's the fun stuff. Right? Like that's the stuff that's funded banter about like like the William sisters, they should, they should let their dad

Richard like, be the manager to captain. How fun would it be if there was an upcoming draft and that we could have right columns on power ranking. Like everyone's trade value of like a fan graphs rating of everyone's trade value and golf, like age, projectability, all this stuff, like where does Ludwig go in that versus like Lucas Glover in terms of, you know, the immediate returns and yeah. And this is where I keep coming back to, is like, if it was built for fans, like that's what they would do, but it's not. It's built to like, it's built to not be an inconvenience to everybody. Well, that's where it's like cool, man. That's fun.

Every team sport works because it is like the best players in totality, right? It's not like a weird selection. If you don't have ROM, if you don't have Sheffler and you don't have all these guys, like it's really hard to really take this product seriously because it's just like the best random team of who signed up for it.

Same problem live has. It's like, that's just who is the best out of the sellouts. This is just the best out of who has free time on a Monday night. And, you know, once in equity in Atlanta, drive GC, I don't know. It just all went equity. Everybody's after equity. That's it. Equity and what? That's right. And the tour just just keeps fucking over Chicago and Seattle. Tell me about it, man. Some of these markets that you don't give tournaments. Are you guys willing to declare your allegiance to a team right here now or no?

Or you got to wait and see. I got to wait and see. What do you need to wait and see? What? Like what? First championship. That's what I'm going to that's who I'm going to be a fan of. I'm a four-acist fan and I'm a fan of everyone's first championship. We's what I'm going to that's who I'm going to be a fan of. I'm a four aces fan and I'm a fan of our wins first championship. We know this work. I'm like

a Jupiter link sky. I'm such a fan of the woods Jupiter that I can't look past Jupiter legs. He's going to Jupiter legs GC at. It's really good stuff. He's going to shoot for his legs GC at this really good stuff. He's going to be a TGL New York fan for sure. Stephen Cohen can't lay all the top is two horses making it to the World Series on a different team. He needs a, he needs a bad spec. All right. That's for Sir Rap.

We'll be back with a Sunday night recap of the Butterfield Bermuda Championship. This big, which, let me say that's not good either, right? Like that's not what I'm right. You see the field? Yeah. That's the worst things I've ever seen. Yeah. And that's right. I don't want to speak out of both sides. My mouth. Like that's not good either. Right. We got it. There's a lot of shit that we got to clean up. And maybe this will be a step in the right direction. Maybe it won't, but you know, promoters that ain't it either. They gave for you, Jim. Maddo sponsor exemption. Talk about 47 and he declined it. He might be on, you might be the 25th man. Talk about Atlanta drive.

You know, go dogs. The only way I think we could send this haul up is a true who could say situation. It certainly has our attention and I semi look forward to watching. But thank you everyone for tuning in and listening we'll be back on Sunday. Hope everyone has a great week. Cheers. I'm going to give it a right club. Be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different.