No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 767: Hunter Mahan

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Hunter Mahan returns to the pod to catch up on all things Ryder Cup and gives his take on what went down in Rome. Before the Ryder Cup discussion Hunter shares his reasons for optimism concerning the professional game and offers some insight on the players' response to the communication from the Tour concerning the framework agreement. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sully here, a light week in golf means no recap. Plus a holiday weekend, we did not get together to recap the past week. Want to shout out, Menbou Lee for his victory at the Australian PGA.

A lot of John Rom rumors flying around this week. This interview coming up his with Hunter Mayhem, we had a great conversation. I just want to alert the people this was recorded prior to Thanksgiving. We recorded this on Tuesday before Thanksgiving. We were we waited to air it until the Sunday night spot. So the John Rom rumors, whatever they are, we're not out there at all. We're not under comment on it. I just want to remind people, he is working under without any information. This was five days ago when he said John Ron was absolutely not going.

Now, what do I think about what's happening? I honestly have no idea. This is about somewhere between 15 to 20 times that we've had to chase ridiculous rumors when it comes to live. We go through our phone books. We try to call as many people as possible, try to get the answers on it, almost always the answer, always the answer actually, since we've started doing this has been, know of course these aren't true,

we don't have that statement yet, but I would be very surprised if these rumors were true, as always keep in mind the source of these rumors, if it happens to be true, this would be about one for 15, these people would be on predicting these things instead of their current O for 14 record. It's always, always noise.

And it's really, really difficult to sift through. So I don't know. I, a lot of players don't know. A lot of people don't know. I would be stunned by it knowing John and just understand the situation and what that would do to negotiations and almost everything. It would, it would shock me if it was true, but a lot of the stuff in this process has certainly

shocked me. I want to give a shout out to our friends at foot joy, specifically the thermo series layering system. It helps you play a lot more golf. And I got a great story about this going back to this Friday day after Thanksgiving. It was a day. I was going to play golf and matter what it rained for two and a half hours in the golf course. Slipped on my thermo series rain gear pants, the jacket, came home dry as a bone.

The thermo series is the most advanced apparel layering system in golf. Anyone who lives or plays anywhere called knows it's about having the right layers. And this collection was specifically made for golf. It's designed to work together so you can easily layer up or down as the conditions change There's the base layer. It's made for golf, but to keep you warm But also give you full mobility to swing freely no matter what layer you put over it though or how many you'll be comfortable all day T.C. Put this whole system to the test in the film room series in Scotland You'll see so many of these the base layer the vest the hoodie there no brainders

But do not sleep on the pants and the jacket as well So many ways to layer up and down. It is technically advanced gear packed with performance stretch materials designed for the golf swing while providing warmth and comfort. Which means even when the temperature drops, you can take it low as well. I also want to shout out the Birchwood series that they just sent us. You might as well call up the Tannimal series. You may have seen a few of these pictures floating around on social media.

I cannot wait to get out on the golf course and these new tan stuff that they sent us. So as they're calling it the Birchwood series, but it's us, it'll forever be the tanimal series. Go to footjoy.com, stock up on those layers and be prepared for anything in the thermos series. As the day evolves, you can evolve with it. Here is our pod with Hunter Mayhan. All right.

We've been pretty down the dumps, I think, on this podcast lately, just about developments in the pro golf world. Give me some kind of optimism. What, should I be optimistic about professional golf going forward? Oh, for sure. I think the opportunities are really kind of crazy, I think, fun and interesting and I think golf. You know, I do, I am optimistic.

The idea that golf will probably come back together. I do think within a few years. So, I am optimistic about that. I think the players wanted, I think, I think the tours wanted. It's just figuring out, there's so much to figure out now and figure out who's in charge. And, you know, who's going to make to make that first move to say, let's make this work, let's make a partnership work that's in the best interest of the game of golf even though I've never been a fan of that slogan because I never know what the game of golf means.

But the best person will not play together 15, 20 weeks a year. Definitely doesn't make sense. But I share your sentiment the last two, 20 weeks of year, definitely doesn't make sense. But I, you know, I share your sentiment the last two years of end quite troubling, but I am excited about the players that are coming up, that are playing so well, that we've seen, and from an international perspective, and from a home-grown perspective,

it does feel like in the next few years, things will get, I think, slightly back to normal, but that's just my optimist view. I don't have any as you do or anyone else says, no one really knows what's going to happen. That's where I keep coming back to even in your optimistic outlook there of the Gulf world coming back together. I'm like, okay, well, that puts us back at like 2021, right, which it's still, I didn't think things were trending that great at that point. And there's still it's still, I didn't think things were trending that great at that point. And there's still some broken fundamentals that I don't know if just everyone coming back

together solves it all really. But I'm wondering kind of you being able to zoom out a little bit from the golf world, being a, you know, a little bit removed from the game in terms of your peak playing period and, and, and not being in the, in the hustle and a week to week basis. How would you, what, what would your role, if this happened in the hustle and a week to week basis. How would you, what would your role, if this happened in the peak of your career, what would you be wanting to see happen, what would you be like pining for? What I would want is some sort of control about

who's gonna run, it's sort of like, I look at it from like college football perspective is that we have all these conferences, and we've got the PGA of America, we've got the masters, we have all these conferences, and we've got the PGA of America, we've got the masters, we have all these great entities. They're all great, and it's got the SEC, and they've got the big 12. We've got all these great entities,

and we have a great product, but it definitely feels like we have to come together a little bit more and figure out how do we do that? How do we do that efficiently? How does everyone happy? How do we get all the players, the best players in the world? How do we get a schedule that's maybe 10 months long? So the players do have two months off, right? So we're not competing with football. And how do we kind of streamline this thing to where I do think like the European tour has a real purpose,

and they have real value? How do we help them? How does that? Because I always felt like when I joined the tour, they were a force, right? In the 90s and in the 2000s, they were a real force. And that sort of situation between the European tour and the PJ tour coming together for the Rotterdam Cup, that is what made it so wonderful and so competitive and so interesting. And that is what made it so wonderful and so competitive and so interesting having so many guys now on this tour. I don't love where the European tours go and I wish they had more stability, I wish they had more influx of money and economy to where they become stronger and so many of those great events are sort of going away now.

I just wish that everyone would sort of get together in a way and figure how do we do this, how do we create a real tour of the best players of the world together and toward the the the majors are highlighted and the the PGA tour and the European other tours are also highlighted throughout the year. That's what I feel like I've been rooting for the PGA tour just because it seems like the best option right now, you know, in terms of the best. It's where the players have have convened the most together right. I think it has created amongst its many flaws created the best possible competition in the best available competition right now and diversifying the game has not been a good thing for it. And further diverse fine is not a good thing. I think I keep coming back to like if they're really going to this for profit model, which I, I'm as soon as I start talking about that, I'm venturing into territory where I'm pretty uncomfortable with my knowledge of it. I was pretty confident in the signature event thing and like a get the best players on the on the field on the course at the same time. That's going to be great for golf. That's pretty easy to understand. Now, when you get into this for-profit thing, I struggle to understand how the PGA tour goes back to looking at all what it looks like now and how we don't end it up with some kind of global tour on top of the PGA tour and the DP World tour. Again, I don't know how that works, but I think kind of what you're talking about there is pretty similar to that.

And the other layer of this is there's so much trust has been broken, I think, between the players and the management, right? And like I said, you almost have to, for a scary as it sounds, sort of tear down and rebuild it. And I think that's the unfortunate truth to this is what has been can no longer keep going as it was. It just business is usual. I just don't think the players,

I don't think the players want that and I would not want that playing now. I'd say we just need our own representation in there to have conversations with these people and not have like the, you know, Aurea Manuel's company coming in and they put a bid and they rejected it. And it's like, well, who rejected that?

Did the players get their team into that and figure out what that is, what that means? Or is it just Jay has power to say no? You know, I mean, I think there's so many more questions as a player that you want to have now. And all of a sudden, it's like, you know, your eyes are wide open to the reality of what's going on behind the scenes without your knowledge. And that's, I think that's an uncomfortable thing. And, and in this world of

player empowerment and most in all sports, this is like a real situation where the players are not really, it's not even being listened to, they're not even getting, getting to hear any of these conversations. And so that's really concerning. If I'm a player and I do think throughout, as you just have to tear this thing down a little bit, and you're gonna have to hire someone with real business experience and real entertainment experience

to figure out what is the best way to have this global brand be utilized. It's not an easy thing. I still think like the NBA and then I felt this is where the best players come. The NHL and so forth like this is where the best players come, but there's still a role for the Asian Tour, the European Tour. And I think a strong European Tour helps the PGA Tour and helps all those events. So that feels like the reality to this thing is this kind of have to tear

up to the ground down figure out what's who's going to lead it and who's going to be in charge and everyone has to feel comfortable with that. It's interesting because there's what I this is not me saying that leadership has done a good job here because I that's not the reaction. It's not the gut feeling I have, but it's also to say, I don't know if the answer is turning over more power to the players. I've read a lot of quotes from players about how to handle this stuff.

And a lot of the players out on tour are extremely, extremely good at getting golf balls into the hole. I do not trust their business experience to be able to sift through the RE manual deal to make the right decision there, right? So that doesn't mean that you're not exactly correct to say that the players shouldn't be trusting the current leadership that has gotten them into this debacle as well.

So it's tricky. It's a representation thing. It's not a prior run thing. It's just players have to say, okay, who's speaking for us? We have to have someone to be able to pause on this. Yeah, I want to pause on this though, because like this is where I get really disconnected of and again, when you talk to players on this, like it is all about players, right?

But it me as a fan can hold my hand up and say like, Hey, what's maybe in the players best interest or the 50th ranked player, the 75th ranked player, the 100th ranked player, 150th ranked player, what's in that players best interest might be very different than what is in me as the fans' interest and the sport as a whole's interest, right? So the way the tours run, the way decisions are made is based off this membership kind of, you know, platform that the guys that are put in charge

are there to serve the players, right? So yet they're doing all they can to help grow the pie, grow the game, that's why you hear grow the game so often, to bring in media interest and all that. But their hands are tied in a lot of ways because of they got to put up tournaments, they got to put up starts, they end up with this really jumbled product

where you kind of aren't really delivering for the fan and yes, the players are getting paid, but how much can the game grow? That's kind of where I'm struggling with where the future really goes. Yeah, and I don't disagree with the concept of where it is. And that's why you need someone who with an inner, I feel like some sort of entertainment business background to understand, how do we profit from all these things? How do we squeeze the most out of juice without taking away

from the faint experience? How do we use technology? Which technology is, I think, is maybe not helping the entertainment sector of certain areas, but I think in sports, it's more popular and more, I think it has more power than ever to have life sports, live drama. That's what people really will tune into.

How do we do a better job of that? How do we do a better job of taking a player and a fan say, I want to watch this player. I don't care about all the other players right now because I love this guy. I love John Rom. I want to see him. I want that, you know, how does Spain get to watch all the John Rom, right? And so there's such a great international component to the game of golf that definitely doesn't feel utilized

as well as it should. I always will go back to it. It's not as if I want player run things. I just want there has to be some sort of player run. It has to be some sort of player representation in there that they hire, that they feel good about someone going in there. And I know it's like, and everyone always chirps that well, it's a union you can't do that. It's like, to me, the rules are done. Like, I don't care about you. My dad is close. It's over. Throw it out. We're doing what everyone want now at this point, because we've seen, head leadership in just bad decisions over the past few years. And what it's sort of left and it's just a fractured situation.

And there were so many mistakes made that are mistakes that should have never happened. That really, if I'm a player, really make me nervous about the future, about what we're doing. And as a player in this Rory, Rory's a good example of someone who's been on the forefront of these things, but now he's taking a step back, because clearly he's like, I'm not capable of doing all of this. I'm just a golfer and he's a guy who wants to be

in those conversations and wants to be there. And now he's like, I'm done. I can't do with this. I can't be the best golfer that I can be, which is what I'm here to do. And then sort of help facilitate and be sort of a, you know, he seems like he's kind of in between the players and the tour trying to, you know, speak for everyone. And I don't think he does and I think he's feeling that and that responsibility. And so it's, it's definitely a mess,

and it's definitely a mess of who's in charge and everyone pointing the finger at someone else. And no one's really has a real understanding of what to do, and that's for sure. When you refer to a clear mistakes that are made, what are the first things that come to mind to say, even with the benefit of hindsight, we can look back and say, like, hey, this was a mistake, this was a mistake, this was a mistake, what's the leading candidate's there? Well, I mean, I remember being in a meeting years and years and years ago with Jay and

there was rumors of, I think it was a group from New York had, was thinking about launching a tour. It was just, it was in the air, right? It wasn't really competitive tour, but it was something around and it was, they were circling and they were talking to players and stuff. And he came out in this meeting, like talking to, you know, like a bunch of children, like you will not do this, you have no rights,

talking down to the players, and it was a very aggressive meeting, and you will be kicked off the tour, you will never be let back on. You've suspended indefinitely if we hear of any names going out, and it was such a strange sort of conversation. And it was far from the, you know, this is a membership group where the players are in charge. It was a, you will do what

you're told and you have no right to leave. I thought it was just such a strange feeling and such a strange meeting and strange message for everybody. It didn't give you any sort of confidence or understanding what was happening. And then, you know, the rumors of live coming up, having no conversations with them, having no understanding of what they're doing, just to maybe understand what they're doing, not to take a meeting. I talked to plenty of people, and I know players have too, were like, at the very least, you take a meeting, just to get a sense of what is happening, what do you think they want to do, and where they want to go with the game.

And the reality is, if they had a couple of billion dollars, they want to influx in the game, a golf, you probably had to put your personal feelings aside, and actually say, okay, this is a really interesting big opportunity, and talk about it, and then maybe say, maybe say no, but to not have a meeting and then everything that transpired after was just sort of a debacle and it put the players in a really bad spot. And that's of all the things that happened to put the players in this situation is sort of, when I look at it, it was the biggest problem. I mean, they just, they put them out there in front of the,

sort of in front of the media and they're standing there every week and worry and Jordan, they're all talking about it and it's just like, this is not their job. Like, you can't expect them to play golf, produce, entertain, and then some, be the PR stunt. Like, that's not fair. They did not deserve that. They did what you wanted and then some be the PR stunt. Like that's not fair. They did not deserve that. They did what you wanted. And then at the end, you just completely caved. And then you just, you backstab every one of them.

It just was so not fair for all the players and what they did. It just, it just wasn't right. Yeah, and on top of that, it was a deal that, you know, even the intro level attorney, a second year associate would say, hey, there might be some extra concerns here. The department judges, and then we're going like, it's just like, what is going, you know, it's just, you're just so confused about everything that's going on.

And it's just, like I said, the players being put in this position to where they have to do, they're in charge of everything. Yet somehow they don't have, they're not, have the right to look at the deal, or to understand what's going on years ago. And then it's just like, wait a minute, you can't have it both ways. You can't say it's your tour, and then say,

you don't actually have a say in what we're doing, right? You get a vote, but, you know, it's pretty clear those votes don't really mean much. Right. The policy board votes are the only ones that really get inside. And it's sort of like, you know, and it just feels

like everyone's over their head now. Yep. Well, that's enough on the depressing stuff. Why don't we talk about the US writer captain then? Well, that's not depressing. I've mentioned this on the pot of culpitize, but you and I were on the same flight. I think back from from Rome and we caught up in the in the Philly Airport. The passion was burning coming off that flight.

And it hasn't really died down for me. I hope it hasn't died down for you in terms of of the path forward here. Before we get into that though, what was you, you were over there doing some, some commentary for Sky Sports. How did that come about? What was, what's that experience like? And what we see you maybe more in broadcasting? Well, it was for the world feed, actually, not this sports.

It's, it's funny over there. There's a lot of, a lot of, I actually did for Sky Sports, a few years prior at Hazel team. They asked me to do it and then they asked me to do it, and then they asked me to do it with some straights. And then the European tour predictions called me to do it for Rome. And the Ryder Cup is what I watched as a kid.

And that's what got me so excited like that in the Masters, but the Ryder Cup, the team aspect of that, and the passion you saw for the players, the captains, the fans, and all rider cup, the team aspect of that and the passion you saw from the players, the captains, the fans, and all the emotion from it was what I loved and so being a part of it as I was so special to me and those are the things that I keep dear with me and I love so much. So whenever I'm asked to do it, I always say yes because I can't wait to be a part of that in some sort of capacity. So they called me and asked me to do it. And they went in my perspective from

being an American player, being a European tour production. They thought that would be a nice bounce to what they're talking about in the world feed and everything. So it was great. They allowed me to be a fan. They allowed me to be, you know, sort of a part of the US side in a good way. But, you know, I did my best to just be very transparent to what the information was providing me and how things were going, right? And so it was really neat to see it because it felt, you know, that different lens, you know, watching like Hazeltein and Wichling Straits and stuff.

And then being on their soil and watching it was completely different perspective. And it seemed very obvious to sort of what the problems were and how we loved and how, you know, I talked to a couple of players afterwards and what I felt was what was happening, right? And we sort of saw it too. Everything going on was not great. So it's still a special event. It was still super cool, but the ending obviously and how things transpired

was very frustrating. And we had a great talk about it in the airport. I don't want to ram along too much. I'm going to get you. No, we're going to get you for everything here.. We're going to get it out of here. So, you know, so go ahead. So go ahead. Well, I was going to say, I was confident not cocky going into this. I thought this group was different. I thought this was going to be a changing of the guard. I thought they figured something out. It was some straights that was going to help carry over to

this one. That would ultimately get proven wrong. But you've been a part of multiple teams that have crossed over and you've, you know, you've been a fan of golf for a long time. This has happened now seven straight times. What were your expectations going into this, right? I can't believe in they could overcome this travel to Europe thing. But were you wary of their chances at all going into it? Well, they're such good players, right? Like when you really let's sit down and look at the team, like they're just so good. You wouldn't think that what happened could happen. But they, you know, and I think even Zach admitted to this that time got the best of him actually said recently.

And it's amazing how unprepared you can be for something that you have sort of two years to prepare for. And he had all these assistant captains with them who have been captains before, multiple times, all this experience. And at the end of the day, they weren't the realities they weren't prepared. And that's crazy to think, but I think that's the very simple, basic truth to this. They got there, they had that practice session sort of,

and it was too late in the schedule to fly there, the fly back, and then fly there again, within like a couple of weeks of each other, didn't really make any sense. They got there too late, they got there like on Monday. What are you doing? Didn't make any sense. They were, I heard they were,

they didn't really have great pairings, they just were sort of like, very analytical with the pairings. They had no plan B, they had no plan C, they had no plan D, it was sort of like, well, this is what we're gonna do and hope it works. And it just, they look like they were cramming for a test out there

and they didn't look comfortable at all. The Europeans were ready. They just look so prepared and they were so ready. And I think there's so many things that go into this playing on the road is a real difference maker. And we've seen that and people keep thinking like, well, we've got to change And people keep thinking like, well,

we've got to change things. It's like you don't have to change anything. Like it's just, it's such a different mindset of traveling and being on the road in this event because you're not used to it at all. So if you're a captain, you have to go talk to, you have to go talk to a Michael Jordan or Justin Thomas' connection with Nick Sabin,

like talk to Nick Sabin and say, how do you go to Auburn and get your team motivated and prepared for that environment? Because this is not much different. It's just really not. When you're there, you are there. It's a completely different energy than when you are in the States, right? And you need a different sort of energy from your captain in your leadership that week because you have to create the energy. The energy is not there. It's really easy

and hesitate to know, mostly in straights, to have energy and to have sort of that focus and desire and the passion from the fans. It's all it's everywhere. You have to tone it down if you're in that room. When you go there, you need to create it and you need to create it the moment you get there. And they should have gotten there five days earlier. They should have really gotten there way, way earlier, got acclimated by the weekend. They could start really preparing and practicing and play.

But then even before that, I think they're waiting too long to get their parings and they're not trusting their better players. I'm not trusting a Scotty Shuffler to go out there and say, okay, we might parry with Sam, but I want you to take a look at another guy. I want you to talk to Brian Harman. Max, I want you to talk to Brian Harman. I want you to talk to St. Burns. I want you, I want, we need to start circulating these partnerships way earlier and really talking and really starting to get these guys to buy into each other

and figure out, okay, this is our little web of two to three guys that you might play with and so on and so forth. We've been so enamored with our guys and like Justin and Jordan were together that they have no other parents like they have nobody else they've played with. Like Jordan just wasn't in good form. He was having a second baby. He just was distracted and he just wasn't going to be there the way he usually would be and he played too much right. He should have but but Justin's like well he's my guy. And he played too much, right? He should have. But, but Justin's like, well, he's my guy. I got to play with him. He had no other parent. Like, how do you not have another parent? How are you not prepared for this? Everything felt crammed and they just weren't ready. And we

keep talking about having a tight group. And there's that the corrosion and Europeans are much tighter. And in the reality, it's true. It's 100% true. They have a much better plan of understanding of how they're gonna have to come together as a team. And people think it's about having a good time and putting your armor on me, guys. It's not. It's about partnerships.

It's about who are you gonna roll out there with and how much of these guys been working with one another? Clearly, the European side, they've been working on these partnerships for a really really long time. To where these guys came together, they've known each other, you know, they, you just tell that there was this vibe between them, that they know exactly what they're going to do and how they're going to do it, and there's a rhythm to what they're doing. And I mean, that morning session for as much as it's like, well, there's a lot of time left. It was really over after that. That for nothing.

I mean, it was done. I mean, and that's a crazy thing to think about. But it was, you saw it, right? You saw it on the faces of European squad. They were so prepared and so ready. And our guys looked like they just, they were still getting acclimated to the situation. And by the time there was emotion and then Patrick came through and there was some fire, it's a Saturday afternoon, it's over.

Like, you have to create energy and emotion throughout the whole week. And it was like they were, it just weren't concerned about that. They were more concerned about sort of bonding. And like the bonding is irrelevant. Like nobody cares. I don't think they know how to bond. I think they think, you know, they kept saying we're the closest team ever and all that. But it's, it's, it's, that's not, it's not what inspires great golf. And that's what I want to pick your brain on too. Like the blueprint is out there, right? I mean, the Europeans have, have, have well documented their approach. And I guess I bought in a little too much to what Podging Hearing didn't

set after Whistling Straits. Like, they've copied everything we've done. Our advantage has gone. Like, I just, I bought into that. I was like, I totally believe now that the US has figured this thing out. This is a totally different crew that doesn't have the scar tissue about going over there and all this. And then like, you get up to press conference afterward.

And speed says, yeah, they just kind of like made more putts and chipped in more than we did. And I'm like, bro, that's not what just happened. And it just seems like I'm so, so impressed with how Rory and how rom specifically just 100%. 1000% going into the week, like there, the name on the back of the Jersey before they enter that team room they throw that Jersey in a hamper in the corner and then they're like they wear the team Europe uniform like from the jump from the absolute onset if some captain came to Rory and said hey you're only going to play in foursums in the team match and this is what I need you to do he'd'd be like, okay, I'll do it.

And the US seems to have none of that vibe. Not only do they not have the cappons that are willing to like set the tone on this, they don't have the guys that seem willing to buy in on any of this. It seems really far away for me. Quick interruption here to remind you that this interview was done before the John Rom,

rumors surfaced this week. So Hunter is not working with the complete set of information as he goes to say anything about that. I don't know if it's they don't have the guys to buy in. I do think it's fair to say that these guys think about the Ryder Cup all the time. I think Rory and Rom, this is why Rom will never go to live. Like, he is too invested in the Ryder Cup, right?

Like, there is rumors of him and it's like, he's not going. He has a legacy he wants to, like, Sevy created this legacy for Spanish players that he's not gonna just throw away. Like, he wants to really build something. You can tell how much it means to them to play in the Radica because they're not representing themselves. They're representing the

people before them. Right? Like they have they rolled that sevy post and it is so real. I am so real. And I'm like, wow. Like being over there, you get chills. Like, it chills just thinking about it. Like, he is, you know, in sports, we talk about all the time about, you know, the pillars of the game, right? And who inspired it? And who are the architects?

Sevi is an architect of European golf. He is the man. He is the Nicholas the Palmer look He's even more than that to them and so he inspired a whole generation of players and stuff and you see that in their face and That's what I feel like Paul did for us like there was an inspirational aspect to him He had a he had a. He gave ownership to these groups to fill and to fioric and to boo and all these guys. He just said, man, these are your, this is your team. This is a my team. This is your team. I'm just putting you out there

because I trust and believe in you and I can't wait for you to go out and play. You want to talk about inspirational and motivational and so excited to go out there and do it. That's why we were so successful that we we were completely outmaned that week. You know, we didn't have tiger. It was a rookie heavy team and they were in the peaks of their European powers, man. They were going to come over dominates. I mean, Sergioi was Lee and Robert Cross was a Malia, what Henrik Stenson was playing great. There was just, they were just dues everywhere on that team and we just stomped them in the ground because we knew we were just so inspired and so motivated and everyone was

together and we were, it wasn't 12 guys together, we were just these little groups together. And we knew exactly like who we were going to play with all week. There was no guessing. It was already built into what we were doing. And that plan has not been reformulated. Again, it has been almost pushed to the side because no one wants to do that again, because I had a catchy name. It didn't have.

And the reality is the name of it is just creating an inspirational area for you to go out there and win because that's the whole point of it is to go out there and play great and play inspired and play motivated and that's what I didn't see from our guys was they see from our guys was they weren't they didn't look inspired. They didn't look like they just didn't look like they were nearly at the level. Like Europe was out of was here and we were just playing down here and it's because they weren't asked to get there. Scotty Schaeffler wasn't asked to be more than a goal for that week. I need you to like in the right, in the months earlier, you know, I love Zach the death. He's one of the best people that I know,

but he needed to go to Scotty and say Scotty, I need you to play great that week. That's obvious, but I need more than that. I need way more than that. I need inspiration from you. I need inspiration from Jordan. I'm gonna need inspiration from all these guys on the team. You're gonna be in charge of this group.

I'm going to put you in charge of these guys. You know, so I can be team captains. I don't need a team. I love Steve Stricker. It's not inspiring anymore, right? Like I need inspiration from you. I need you to motivate these guys. I need you to take charge of this group.

You know, and I just don't think that was ass of them. They were more concerned about bonding and hanging out. And these are all good guys like that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about winning the writer cup. We're not talking about bonding. Yeah, Zach was like, I love these guys and we had a great crew and their outings they didn't they didn't have a great crew. But it was not a great, you know, they were fractured a little

bit and then we found out about that later. And that was really unfortunate because I think those guys are there to win and to be a part of it. But they're just, you know, there's such a responsibility that European players feel from the players, the players that sort of set the tone, years and years and goes. And there's a responsibility that they believe to take it to the next one to play great and be great. It'd be more than just a great goal for that week. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Woop, the official fitness wearable of

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You want to track your habits that lead to better sleep. You want to understand what causes you to sleep less. You know, not all time spent laying around in bed is equal. I've learned that as I've tracked some of my drinking habits, the closer I drink, you know, to bedtime, the worse my sleep is, the worse my recovery, and the worse my energy is the next day.

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You're talking about somebody that just harvases some kind of culture. And I've refer to this all the time. Shane Ryan did a great series of does a great series of podcasts for golf digest called the I think it's called the rider cup ride. It might have been rebranded, but he has an episode about 1983 or 1985. I forget which one it is. And it if you want to talk about the Sevy stuff like Sevy and I don't have the exact quotes, but in 1983 they at down in Palm Beach, the rider cup,, they had the closest Ryder Cup ever in the modern era and the US on the US turf. And the team was pretty devastated afterwards

and said, you like, God in the locker room, like everybody's devastated and crying. He's like, this is a victory for us. Like, this is the best we've ever done. And we will win in 1985. Like, when we go to the belt free, we will win. And like, that's how that night ended was in celebration. Like, and from that moment on, like, if you want to talk about we had Eduardo Mónario on talking about, you know, this past week and like, Jose Maria

O'Fobl said, I would trade in one of my green jackets to play in one more Ryder Cup. Like, that traces all the way back to creating a buy-in back in the 80s that is permeated through that team Since then and has never The US has had some success in short bursts, but that has never been harvested or led by anyone the one instance You're referring to there was just no rollover for mazinger into into 2010 and that kind of feel was lost and It's real and I just I can't ask enough people about how explaining like, all right, being inspired, I imagine I'm not played in one of these yet working on it. But I imagine you can't just like listen to Metallica and go get pumped up

and like go play amazing golf, right? It's not a adrenaline test. It's not like who can get the most jacked up to play. What does inspiration mean? How does it help you play better golf? Well, I think that Paul did a really good job of it. It was a slow bleed, right? It wasn't that weak of running through a wall. It was Phil sat me down after I got picked. He sat me down, I think it was like a playoff event or something.

And he went through this whole list. He said, we're gonna win. And then we tell or something. And he went through this whole list. He said, we're going to win. And then we tell you why. And he went through this whole list. And I think I told the Gulf Digest guys how important Phil was. And Phil kept a lot of these teams together in a lot of different ways because he is very inspiring. And he's not inspiring by, you know, running through a wall or big on tables or any sort of speeches. He really cares. And the Europeans that they care about this event,

more than when they say that, when a Mallanaire says that, it says, I would happily give up whatever to play a more and more, to be a part of it, right? Like that, I mean, they believe that, they mean that. And you have to just really, really, you have to get the players to get ownership of the team. You can't just be the leader of them. They have, it's like, the thing that Paul did was that he was just so energized,

and so excited about the opportunity and he brought in the people and the fans. You don't get that over there. So you have to kind of create it. But the reality is you've got to put it on the players and say, you know, find little groups and little paws of them. You know, people hated the pot thing, but the reason why it worked is because you're not out there is, you know, you can't. 12 people can't bond that week, but you need to give the players ownership and say, this is your team. We're all going to need to help spiring each other.

And it has to be this bleed of continuous motivation throughout that whole year and keep everyone's minds kind of investing in the whole time, right? It's not a one week thing. The Europe students all year, right? They get the players and they call their peer and tourists, I want these guys together. They need to be playing together. They need to see how they play. They need to get a feel for one another.

So when we go to that week, everything's laid out in the thinking and the process is done, they just go play and they go play aggressive and they go get it, right? And so it has to be a big plan and it has to have all these little checkpoints of where you're getting everybody bought in and get everybody on the exact same page about what they're gonna do and how they're gonna do things. In the way that we look going back to it, they had this random trip, they just went there like three weeks before hand and then they came back and then they're home for two weeks and then they flew there again and then they flew kind of late. It was like, none of this was planned. I think they just were focusing on the wrong things.

And there's just an unfortunate club of guys who are just, when you just start circling the same stuff over and over and over again, it seems to, you think it's gonna work at home as it's gonna work the same as it's there. It's not. It's a completely different animal. It's just completely different.

And you have to respect it. You have to know that and you have to understand that. And if you don't even get to that point, which I don't think anyone really has in a long time, you're going to, you're in a rough, rough spot. I think the European side has sort of figured that out and said, okay, our abilities are right here now. Before there was, they were, now our abilities are right here now. Before there was, there were no, now our abilities are right here. We've got the players, we've got the youth, we've got guys coming up. So now we have to bring that inspiration, that energy. And that's what Luke did,

and that's what Rory did when they said, we're gonna go to a Beth Page and we're gonna win. That's what they're doing. They're already inspiring, and they're already starting to get and said, this is what we're gonna do. And I thought it was fantastic what they're doing. They're already inspiring. And they're already starting to get and say, this is what we're gonna do. And I thought it was fantastic what they did. I thought it was exactly the right thing to do.

And they're inspiring those younger guys who played and the guys maybe who just missed out on making that team to be a part of that. And I thought that was very, very cool. And I thought that it was exactly the right thing to do. Yeah. And this is where I get, again, can twist my brain into a pretzel. Like, all right, Medina was the freakyest incident ever. And I, there's some stock. I put it, there's some things that led to that. But I mean, in reality, though, the home team has dominated,

basically going back to 2006, right? So as great as European's process is, like they lost by the widest margin ever in the modern Ryder Cup the last time it was in the US and they got spanked at Hazeltein, right? So like you can do all of these things, create those culture and all that and still get your ass away. If you don't, if you don't have the players, like I was there, we didn't have the players. They just did. It was just one of those kind of crazy years in the US. It was just like the US was, everyone was at the peak of their powers and they were just playing good too. Like it wasn't just like they were, they had the better players. They were all ridiculous. Like the President's Cup sort of last year, it was like, this is a ridiculous team and they're playing unbelievable right

now. And so that was kind of a freak of currents and that happens. And then the Europeans like they went through a little bit of a change, but now it does feel like they are. It's different going forward. They've got some studs. And that's where I guess I get I'm probably putting too much stock in the post press conference and all that, but you know, we just had witnessed Scottie Sheffler in tears, you know, the day before and like obviously going through kind of emotions on a golf course that you we've never seen him go through or he's never been through that.

He has no like that was a it's hard to describe because the runner cup it brings so much to you that you didn't know you had in you and it's hard to he's like, I've never felt like that before. And then off the first like, you lose, you play bad, but it's like, he couldn't put it in a word. Like the emotion is all he had left. And it was like, that's what's crazy and amazing about the run of cup. And it makes it so makes it the vent that it is. But that's where again, I'm putting too much stock in it and maybe I should give them more leeway to get a little time and perspective on this to pull back and come up with a plan. But I didn't see like that, that whole thing, that kind of mindset of like, all right,

we know what we went, what went wrong here and like we're fired up to go fix this going into the next rider cups. It just kind of, I kind of throwing their hands up still at the, I don't know how many times we can go do this, play over there and lose and just be like well, we needed to play better Like hey, maybe there's a lot of things in the process that need to change that you know that lead to the US players playing better over there and It sure sounds to me and it sounded like to me when we in that conversation in the airport It sounded like you have some interest potentially and getting involved in these teams and you're laying out a blueprint for for turning this thing around Would you want to be involved in in the US teams in some capacity?

Well, that'd be great. Obviously, it's something near and dear to my heart and I loved it. I mean, I don't know if I'm in a game that way I need to be a part of the team, but I will love to be a part of it in any way I can. Hopefully I can just commentate if I have to, for at least do it. But I will say is like the perspective that I had was so interesting and it was so different than being at home and being on the road and seeing it and actually watching it and sort of hearing about what was going on.

It gave you a very clear reasoning why they didn't play well and why the European played so well, right? Like another reason was the European, a lot of the guys that played that golf course multiple times, the US side never went there and they didn't play it in a event, right? And the Europeans have been coming there for years. You know, Rory's been there

and they had a couple guys who have won there in the past. So Matthew Fitzpatrick played there, played well. So like, they had a bunch of guys play there. They, like, like you said, the reality is they just wanted it more. And they were willing to do things. You could say you want to win, but what are you willing to do to win?

The Europeans side is willing to do more to win. And they did, they went there and they played. And they played multiple years to get used to that golf person, see it from a tournament perspective, which is very different than just playing practice runs, right? They changed the course quite a bit to fit their needs, which I actually, I really do like and like how they like how the home team has control of that. But it is the, you know, it is the opposing side to figure out maybe the things that can do and figure out how are we going to play this golf course to our needs and to fit our needs and do what we need to do.

So, they did a masterful job of saying that golf course to the European side and then they did go out and play great. There's no doubt about it. But the reality is they were just way more prepared than the US side. Wait, I mean, I think felt over before when you watch that like one session into this thing, it was very clear that they were. They just were prepared for everything that was coming their way and and they just look like they had absolutely no fear about the end result, because it was already, you know, it was already determined. That's one of those things too. I don't have eight times I have to learn this lesson, but somebody who was close to the situation

and told me like, you should go see the European team room and the US team room, like the level of investment that the teams have put into this, like the little actual structures, like the actual rooms and the level of detail. And that's all you need to know to about like how prepared these teams are. And I was like, ah, that was really part of the way. I'm like, yeah, that's not worth any points.

Like, yeah, let's go play. And then it's like, oh, shit, man. Then maybe there, maybe there is something to it to how they have this whole approach to it and all that. But, I don't know, it's fast. It's endlessly fascinating for me. I, I, I, I looked into the camera and said, I'm not going to predict them to ever win in Europe until they actually do it. I just, I'll miss the first one they do just because it's like, I don't know, that one

felt like it should have been. I think I'm good on, I think I'm good on the home team setup. I don't know if that needs to be a container. There's so much already working in the home team's favor You know, and they didn't like overly manipulate the course, but it was just set up to the point where it's like all right We're not gonna have Wed shots into this into these green because that's where the US has an advantage like Man, I kind of think the Ryder Cup should be like a test of overall skills and not just the test of all the things that only benefit you

It'd be I don't know. It's like tilting a basketball court in your direction. You know, I don't know the perfect analogy here other than to say like, it just seems like one step too far because we've had way too many home blowouts. I think it's okay if you do it. You just have to have some sort of time before it. You should get a little bit like two months or three months or whatever. There should be some sort of like, we're going to set it up this way. And then you should have it tired to adjust. It feels like if you do it like,

you have no idea where the teas are, right? And there were so many tea boxes there on those holes, right? And they took all the power forks and they were remotely reachable. They're going to be drivers. We're just going to make it. So we're not gonna have any new match shots, right? All the part-fives are gonna be reachable. So we're not gonna have any match shots, as you said. There were basically mid to long part-fours and then travel part-fours and then a couple of reachable part-fives.

There was never an opportunity for players to hit wedges, right, and then good part-frees and stuff. So they did a good job. I guess the only thing you could say is like, you have to kind of set it up. And then that week of say, this is where the two boxes are going to be. So you can play that, right?

To kind of unload that on Friday. And then see it, it does, there is a little trickeration to that. Yeah, I could go both ways on that. But no one wants to be the first team to give up the home the home advantage, right? No, it's a hard thing to give up because you get control and there's a difference. There's a difference in the players, but but for the Europeans, I for sure because they can go to these golf courses that the and they have more control over the tour itself. So they can the courses going to be there, they can have a tournament there, right?

And they can set it up for the next two years. And so, there are guys play. It's on the US side to go over there and to play, right? Like, there was an open invitation. I'm sure all those players to go play that event for the last two years, and nobody said yes. So, that is on the players. They have to do that, right?

And so, and it's going to be harder like I you know I did talk to Speed that he's like boy we had a real opportunity in France and in early we're going to Ireland it's going to be way harder over there for us to win That is going to be completely different animal because you didn't get the fans Was European fans the way you're going to get them? because you didn't get the fans, was European fans the way you're going to get them, those, the great bandaran of the fans are coming and it's going to be

ruckus and so, you know, that's going to be really, really, really tough. Really. Especially off the backs of Beth Page, which we know is they're going to want some regardless of the result, like they're going to want some revenge fans. Yeah. It's going to be rough. I mean, it's gonna be a really, really, really rough way. So that's, you know, I suggested that they should go with Tiger as a next captain, and then the captain after that to do it for four years. That's what I think should be done. It should be the plan. I think you would do it.

I think you'd relish it. I think you'd be great at it. Yeah, I'll trust your judgment on that to say. I don't really care who the person is as much as it is to just somebody that you know installs kind of what you've talked about in terms of buy-in and Understanding roles and how your role expands beyond just getting the ball in the hole, right? That's that seems to be a huge huge gap for me and Yeah, it's not a question of if the players can do it or want to, you know, I think

is it a thing that, you know, Brooks wants to do? I would say no, like he's a guy that's a really interesting player moving forward. Does he fit the Rotter-Cut model that, a John Rom, that Rory that a Justin Rose they bought and and laid into that I don't see him doing that he's a little bit more of an assassin. I buy in the Scotty stuff they're taking in that role and saying yes I am capable of doing that. You just got to ask of him to do that. He's a young guy. He hasn't experienced anything like that. He's only played the home ones. He's like this is great.

This is fun. This is easy. And then when you go over there, you're like, oh, wow, this is, they don't want us to win. They're extremely honest and yelling at us. And they're happy. That's a weird thing new experience. It is not normal in golf to experience those things.

And you have to, I think, and you've got a asset of your top players and say, you know, as I said, I need you to be great, but I need you to be in charge. And you're in charge of this group. And anyone that's ever been a part of any team anywhere, including work environments, like for us, like, if I look back in time, there was four of us that were full time back in 2018 and Neil didn't go full time until 2019. And we were like, you know, we were doing okay in 18, but we were all kind of swimming in our own lanes that I wouldn't, we got, I don't know if we were, you know, sometimes

not swimming in the same direction. And when Neil came on board full time, he became like the leader of the group. And it enhanced my performance because I had almost somebody I owed reporting to or something of, here's what I'm responsible for, here's what I need to, like it was, it changed everything and that wasn't going to happen without somebody taking leadership and ownership of that part of the process, right? And we've all been much more productive since then and have evolved from that. And that's where it's like, there has to flow through someone that's willing to like organize everything.

And I don't know, I had faith that that that was gonna be the case. What did you? What did you make of the pay for play? Stuff was this ever talked about when when you were on any rider cup teams or you know You think that was a distraction at all to the US team? Yeah, I mean I open my big mouth years ago and got a lot of flat-fart. I'm talking about I think Mark Amira and In DuVoe were some of the early guys that time to talk about it, and I talked about it to a guy, and it was the wrong place, the wrong time, what I said, I'd never been a part of a team, so it was my own, you know, negligence and being

stupid and young. But it's a real thing in terms of, this is a big event. There's 24 of us playing. They're making a lot of money off the event. I think what just, you just want a little bit of transparency and to tell us what we're doing, how we're getting reciprocated for our efforts and our product that we're putting out there. Where is the money going? Because I know, because it's not like it just goes in it, someone's pocket.

I mean, it funds the PGA of America. It funds all their junior programs and it funds everything that they do. It's just, you just want a little transparency when you don't know where it's going. And it feels like you're being taken advantage of a little bit, right? And so it has come to, you know,

players get it for the charity. And that's great. I think it just needs transparency is what I would go back to and just say, Hey, Peter Merriss should come in and talk to the players and say, Hey, this is where it goes, how we do. These are the things we do for you. And just sort of lay it out. So it's a little bit, you have a better understanding of it.

I think when you just sort of show up and do it, and you see the size of the tents, and you see the merchandise, you see all that stuff, you do feel like, wait a minute, am I getting my sort of fair share? And I know people talk about, you know, you get photos, is it? I get that. And in any business, when you work,

you wanna get, you know, you wanna get your money for the work that you do. So, I don't mind the players asking the question. I just think a little transparency, a little understanding of what's happening, where it's going. And I think honestly, as we all work, we're like, we're a bore with that. And it's totally fine. We're good.

We're good. But I think it was a problem this year. And I think that was sort of substantiated afterwards like it was an issue. It was not. When not everyone is truly there and bought in and ready to go and is there to kind of just be there, it's not a great feeling, right? You're going against a giant who's all in. And when we talk to them, we just spend the long time talking about they're all in. And you're not all in.

And they're some of your best players. And they play together. And you don't really. But there are also two guys where you see out there playing. You're like, well, who else do I pair with? Are they the guys that I asked to sort of help take charge? It made Patrick's awesome. He's in that Bricks' mold, right? Where they're just, they're a little bit better individuals and they are sort of part of a group. It's sort of the reality of it because he's an assassin, he's a killer, he's just going to

like in singles, he just mows you down. You know, in Patrick's sort of the same way. But like these guys are on Rappin' their arms around, wind them and saying, hey brother, just lean on me all day. If you have any problems, you have any questions like Justin Lenter, when I play with him, he just like, I just lean on him that whole week and I didn't, I put a Phil's, sorry afternoon and he came up to me and just hugged me, and he said, I'm gonna be here all day with you. If you ever need anything, you have any other question. I'm right here, right?

That's leadership, and that's like, not what you see from the US side. You see bonding, but you don't see a guy wrapping their arms around the window and saying, bro, I got you, I got you. I'm gonna talk you through this all day. I'm going to be with you all day. I'm going to like just, you know, you're just like a,

like a taking care of a puppy, like you're just, you know, you're just feeding them confidence, feeding them energy. It's like, we just didn't have that, right? It just, you know, it just, you know, in a, in part of that, it's just you're just not asking the guys, you're just not asking them about that. And then I think honestly, when you build your team next time,

you gotta take that into consideration. Like, who are my dudes who are gonna take the other guys? Like, that's a real thing to ask. And that's different on US territory than Europe as well. I think it's like, the guys you would pick, right? Yes, and yeah, you need those guys over there.

You need those guys to just help the group and inspire everyone and just be like, hey, you know, because I feel it always come out and say, give me the young guys, give me the young guys, give me Keegan, give me Keegan, give me Hunter, right? I got him, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna coast them along all day. I'm gonna talk to him when I have a great time.

There's not many guys that are doing that. That's why I do think Tyra is going to be a good leader. He just does in his own way. He's going to take a military, like a military, like a approach of groups and of common goal, but we're all going to do it a little differently. And that's okay because the goal is to win. The goal is not to bond. The goal is to find our little groups and you're going to do it different than this guy.

So I'm going to put you with him, right? It might be different than you think, but it's going to work, right? It's going to work and you're going to trust me because this is a master plan over time, not a of a week. Yeah, I promise we'll wrap this eventually, but it's just, it feels like they, what you just described, takes pressure off players. Like you're playing an environment that is unfamiliar to anything else you're going to play in your entire professional career. And like, anything you can do to take the pressure off of that situation. And that's why I've said a lot is it just seems like the US players

by their on their in their own way of wanting to win very badly. I do not question the desire. But they almost it's almost like an American nature to like want to take that on and want to be as tough as possible. Want to take on that burden and just at you're adding a layer of pressure to yourself instead of a layer of, you know, kind of not spreading that out, but almost like understanding not to put too much on yourself and playing for 12 people instead of just trying to dominate on your own performance can lead to a totally different success level golf. I don't know.

It's what makes it the best of it, dude. I don't know. It's what makes it the best event, dude. I don't know. It's my favorite to just continue to talk about. Might be saying the same thing is over and over, but it really is that interesting. It's so complex. There's a lot of complexity to it, right? And you have to respect that complexity and that understanding. And I think the European side understands it heavily. they understand the psyche and the motivational and they knew what they had on their team. And they usually do a good job of pumping up, like the bottom guys used to be,

we always thought it was their sort of, their kryptonite, their problem. But they've done a good job of taking those guys and taking them with like a Justin Rose, right? And Justin's like, I'm going to, I want to take you, and I'm going to squeeze it out of them. So by Sunday, instead of just saying you're not going to play till Sunday, no, we are going to play you because we believe in you, we have confidence, we're going to give you a Justin Rose, who's also a guy you wouldn't really truly expect to wrap your arms around somebody

But he was a master that weakened their masterful job of just Just squeezing all the juice out of him and squeezing all that that you know You could see it in their faces all that That tension and that nervousness and he just got it out of them To where I'm drawing a blank gun who we played with but he was my guitar, made huge puts, put great, great when I watched him T.L.F. on, and it was Friday, I'm like, this is gonna,

I don't know what we're gonna get out of him. Man, by Sunday the dude, the guy was, he was massive on Sunday Saturday afternoon, made some huge, huge shots. So that's what you want to see is that that process growth throughout the week and they did a mash for Java. Is I'm willing to, I've long believed like the US has an advantage in the fact that they play the president's cup in between Ryder Cup and I'm willing to listen to a theory or flow to theory that it might actually hurt.

Like one, how do you explain the US's domination in the president's cup and lack of success in the rider cup, at least on road games? And two, can that add to a level of complacency of, you know, we don't need to up into our process. We've got a good thing. Go on. We win everywhere. We win the US rider cups at home. We win the president's cup everywhere. We just lose one of these every four years. Is there any complacency that can be gained from the success of the Presidents Cup teams? Um, that's not a crazy idea. I think, you know, we had the one thing we've had is consistency with Fred, right? I mean, we had Jack for a while and then Arnold,

I think Arnold was a guy who started it. And then both, he had Fred forever and ever and ever and ever. So you had the same consistent guy there and Fred's about the most easy going guy you'd ever wanna be around. And I have had some bad pairings. Our mirror play was Snittaker when you're in. And I love playing it,

but we could play in completely different ways. And we were not a good pairing. It was just, he gets the more energized, he gets more pump-up. He gets the better he plays. I'm sort of the opposite. Like, I can't play at his speed and his energy. It just doesn't work, right? But we were still winning that presence cup.

Because I think there's such a lack of stress. Fred just doesn't allow that in his life. And so, you just had all this confidence and all this history of, well, we're going to pull it out, we'll find a way and we'll play well and do it. And the reality for that side is they don't even speak the same language. I mean, they have a, that is a hard task over there of what they had to do. And I hope that the mergers, some of those younger guys, um, helps because, um, you know, Tom, Kim and stuff could maybe be the future of, of, of that. But then they have a really hard task. I mean, it's not easy at all to what, you know, what Trevor had to do is to get these guys to communicate and to sort of work together. That is really, really hard.

But for us to have the same consistent messaging, the same kind of guy and just kind of keep it going. I know he doesn't do any more, but like, it's that helps so, so much. And he's such a good. And he leans, but he leaned on, you know, I remember being in, and I was eating after one, I was eating in the hotel in like Fred Phil entire walked in. And I'm just like, and all of a sudden,

they just start chatting about the next pairings, what we're gonna do. And I'm in there like, should I be in here? I like, he's all left and then they asked my opinion. And I'm like, I don't know, I think it sounds pretty good to me. Whatever you guys think. But he leaned heavily on Tiger and he leaned heavily on film. Like, what do you guys feel? What do you guys see out there? What, you know, and so there was this, there was still ownership of those top players to understand what was going on and how to put a good pulse of the team and what everyone is feeling. But it was just that there was such a easy goingness

about what we were doing and how we were playing that week that it was such a different vibe than playing in the Rotter-Cup and especially playing across the pot. Last one I promise, I'm gonna let you go, but I just got back from Roam Elburn at the Asia Pacific Amateur. Was the 2011 presence cup just like peak golf, except like the most fun you could playing team golf on that golf course and match play and those conditions has to just be the most fun it could possibly be.

Yeah, especially coming off like my 2010 experience so that having to get back in the team of a head they were letting me have it over there. Really? Yeah, and so making that put, I guess Jason Day and Aaron Valley to kind of win the match was one of the best feelings I've ever, ever had. And those are fans who are golf star, then they love it. They've had an incredible history of incredible players. So in that golf course, the historic and it's incredible that whole section of the sort of the sand belt.

There's just awesome, awesome golf. So that was in knowing that they had won before there was extra motivation. On our side, there was motivation on their side, Norman being the captain. Like, all of a sudden it felt like everything was lining up for them. Jason Day was becoming a real top player in the world

in the Lodged Stryline Stead. So all these things were lining up in their favor. And I think that really motivated us and really made us know, you know, he kept you on your toes that week in like, hey, we can't get behind these matches because they can run away from us. And I think everyone kind of,

you know, I had a great partner in Tom's and David and I just put it all so we can just kind of smoke everybody that week. And it was a great, that was a great, great win and great experience because that was, that was tough. That was, that was real, real challenging and that was an incredible, incredible feat in the fans or they were the perfect balance of, of, on their side, but also appreciative of golf and entertainment and we all sort of made up at the end. I think it should just be the international presence cup.

Should just be there every year. I really, I mean, it does feel like that. I don't know. It's magic. It is magic. It is, you know, it's a challenge to go to other places for that side. But, you know, the South African was obviously incredible. You love to see it all over the world,

but there's something magical about that, right? It's like St. Andrews is like, why isn't that every three years instead of like five? There's like, no, that thing needs to be there all the time. I mean, that thing, it's just, it's the coolest. It's the best. So, all right, man, we can do this anytime you want. I absolutely love talking golf with you,

and I love, you know, my campaign stickers for you to be involved in the US Ryder Cup team process or arriving at some point. I'll have them shipped out all over the country. You could be wearing 100 Mayhem for Ryder Cup. So great talk of golf. You appreciate your time and we'll catch up with you soon. Thanks, man.

Be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different.