No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 774: 2023 LPGA Season Review Part 2

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Randy, TC, Cody and Jordan are back with part 2 of our LPGA 2023 recap. In this episode we discuss the past twelve months on an individual basis for some of the biggest names in the women's game including Nelly Korda, Linn Grant, Rose Zhang, Leona Maguire and more. (Editor's note: you'll find a thorough discussion on Lilia Vu's year in part 1 of our LPGA review podcast). From there we delve into the off-course news (51:40) of potential Saudi PIF investment into the women's game and take stock of year one for LPGA Tour Commissioner Mollie Marcoux Samaan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome into the No Laying Up golf podcast. My name is Randy. I am joined by Tron Carter, Cody McBride and Jordan Perez. This is part two of the 2023 LPGA season recap. If you did not listen to part one, make sure to check that out. It will set the stage for the second part of the episode. The second part also brought to you by

our good friends at title is the number one ball on the LPGA tour and wherever competitive golf is played. You've heard us say it before. The best players in the world are playing a golf ball that's fit to their games. Cody and myself, along with Lily Vue, Sleem Boudier, Amy Yang, we trust the performance of the Pro V1X, which gives us all a little bit more heightened spin with slightly firmer feel. Tron, he plays the ball that Alice in Corpus, Lingram, Megan Kang, just to name a few play. And that is the Pro V1. They get a little bit lower flight and spin, but with a little softer feel. And something we've all learned in the last year, you simply can't play your best golf

without getting fit for the right golf ball. So head over to tidalist.com to start the fitting process and see which model is right for your game. We thank Titleist. And now without further ado, let's just jump right back into our recap episode of the 2023 LPGA season. Enjoy. The next homework I assigned you guys, I wrote down how many three, six, 10 players,

nine players. And I want to just, I assigned each of you to make the case, whether this person had a successful season, a disappointing season, or if it was just a meh type season. And so Cody, I, the first one I had was Nelly Corda. It's a great segue. What is the case you want to make to the rest of us about Nelly Corders 2023? Well, to the board, I think we can, I hope that I can find, you know, a quorum here on this and say that this was a disappointing year for Nelly Corder. Does anybody object? I was thinking it's on the borderline of man disappointment. So I would go disappointment. So as we stated, a drop in the Rolex rankings,

majority of that is due to a little bit of nagging injuries that she was still been dealing with, but really what it comes down to is just a god awful putter. And we got to see that up close and personal a lot this year. No wins on the year. It's very rare that you say that for Nelly Corda. She did come in second at the HSBC Women's World Championship to start the year off. She had a third place finish at the Chevron, and she just really, her last, she came out

hot and then she had three really just suboptimal rounds in Houston there to come up with that third place win. She ended up 11th at the women's open, which Randy and I saw her up close. We watched a ton of her golf throughout that week. And she did, she hit the ball better off the tee and better irons than anyone else in that field. Literally did not make a single putt all week. Truly the worst he could have finished. Yeah. Yep, that's where we saw some things. Start to change, I guess, in her camp.

So she fired her long time swing instructor. She hired Jason Bale, who's the director of instruction at Jupiter Hills down in Florida. She made that change right after the KPMG. Everybody remembers there was a week off in between KPMG and the US women's open. New swing instructor there. Swing was dialed the second half of the year. We talked a lot about her putting those and kind of it wasn't it wasn't it't not good. And then she actually ended up hiring a new putting instructor to write around, I want to say the week prior

to the soul high, I can't remember his name right now. I probably could look it up there, but it was just bad. It was the year of bad putting. I think we saw her with four or five different putters bouncing back and forth between new port twos, different new port 2 knockoffs. She went to a mallet and was playing Phantom for a long time. She went to a normal traditional mallet.

She tried a longer putter, a shorter putter. It just seemed like everything that she was trying, she just could not get the feeling in any confidence on the green. They're rounding that up. A very poor performance from the US team at the International Crown. And then a lot of weight on her shoulders, obviously, at the Soulheim Cup, where we were kind of expecting her to go out and take some throats out there. And it just really didn't happen. So overall, I give that a disappointment. From the guys who are just, man,

what do you think I missed? Huh, I mean, I think the, no, I think I'm with you. It's disappointing. I'm kind of getting to the point where like, I guess it depends on whether like what your expectations are for Nelly, right? And is she the player that I think she's gonna evolve into or is she the player that she's shown thus far?

You know, I think the equipment change was big, to like she struggled to find a good driver and was eventually back into title list. Yep, and had the full, but like thinking about it through the context of Lily of Wu not having Basically a hat deal or sponsorship deal and then looking at Nike backing up a brinkstruck for Nelly like it's it's an interesting juxtaposition So I think Cody the only thing I'd add is um Just

Nelly deserves to have high expectations. You know, we had talked about the deal she signed with Nike. She's the highest endorsed female golfer in the world. She's the only female golfer of the 15 highest paid female athletes in 2023. And I think it's fair to have high expectations for her. And I think when you look at it in terms of, you know, I think we're expecting her to win a major, to really

vie with with Lillia. And I don't know. I think the more I think about Nelly, the more disappointing the season gets. But I also do want to recognize that like she's close. Like she could have a monster 2024. But I'm almost getting to the point where it's like she almost has to start showing me like she has to show me something before I'm like totally bought in on on the Nelly train. I don't know. It's feel a little brook Anderson. Yeah, it's feeling like we're just stalled out

and like we're not, like she's not that young anymore either. You know, and she's been out on the LPJ tour a long time. I give it's gonna happen. That's gonna start happening. The one thing that I will add in there is that she did not win on the LPGA tour. She did not win at a major. She did win in a Ramco team series event,

the London event, you know, you can take that for what it is, but she was up there, you know, she ran away with it, ended up winning by three or four. She'd be Charlie there, who this was up there, you know, she ran away with it, ended up winning by three or four, she beat Charlie there, who this was middle of July. And you kind of thought that that's when she was going to kind of turn over and start just being a world beater and it just didn't really happen. So one, one victory there, L.E.T. Ramco team series, but that did not transfer over to the rest for LPGA calendar. Tron, you got the next one for us. Minji Lee.

Yeah, I think this is a fascinating one. One twice, but kind of a non-factor until September. She made all 18 cuts of the LPGA event she played in. Kind of looking into it a little bit farther. She was down in Australia, almost one the Australian open a couple of weeks ago, but there was, there was a good article on Fox Sports Australia from Aimentirnin. And he said, this is all from kind of her, her pressur down in Australia about how burned out she was first half of the year going into April. She just kind of totally reset. And she actually went back home, right? She needed more time.

Went to the beach with her friends just didn't think about golf. She's 26. She's like 26 or 27. She's been out on tour for like eight years and she just said, Hey, I'm totally worn out. The last eight years have been a blur. It's been going a mile a minute. I need to reset. And she did that and came out and just completely looked awesome the last couple months of the season. And I think there was like a few other really like she she was 12th on the money list certainly not not up to her expectations like this was a player that was challenging for number one in the world, you know, in 2019.

And, you know, and thinking about Australians too, you think about, all right, like, couldn't, you know, couldn't go back to Australia during COVID. Or, you know, there's, there's a lot of COVID, I think, was a little bit more damaging to Australian golfers than it was to a lot of other nationalities. I loved seeing her shoot 80, 66, 68, 66 at the women's Scottish to finish T13. Did not shoot around in the 70s. And like, that's gritty. I like seeing that from her. I like seeing that kind of, you know, some dog in her.

Conversely, final round 75 at the U.S. Women's Open. She was in a pretty good spot heading into that final round. Finish is T13. It's tough. You got the three majors there, back to about, like three majors within five starts for her in June and July. So if you're not dialed and hot going into those, it's tough to define your season.

That's going to make or break your season. And then, you know, she had a close call at founders, but just overall just a really bad start to the season, but she did what she needed to do to reset it. And I'm buying in a big way for Minjuli in 2024. And it's, you know, again, it comes down to streaky putter, but the ball striking is always gonna be there. I would say it's a, it's a, it's a ma year for her. I don't think it's a you know I think her expectations to be number one golf in the world and but a disappointment would have been you know

something short of two wins right. It's even hard for me to to give her a ma. I mean gosh when you lay it all out like that it It's like is it the best year ever? No, but I would almost lean more towards success Her playoff win and Cincinnati too was was really good She she hit some shots to beat Charlie Hall. Yeah, that was that was a phenomenal win We're also forgetting the founders. I mean, the founder, she was defending her title of founder, she put herself in a position

and play off there with Ginny Unco. And, you know, honestly, she showed Ginny Unco the line. I don't know if you guys remember that, but perfect camera angle there. It was, she was close. She was close a lot more than she was far away there. Yeah. All I'm saying is, listen, we're talking about a two-time major champion that could take the step to being one of the dominant players for generation. And I think the, the expectations are

for, you know, top, you know, top fives and wins and majors and you know more of a consistent season throughout. So yeah. God, your expectations for her are very similar to my expectations for Nelly. Oh yeah, I would say you'd probably even higher. I thought you were going to say Lucy Lee Cody. Jordan, you got the next one. Ginny Unco, I'm very, very fascinated where you land here. I don't want to go too hard on Ginnyanko. I just faced a lot of slew of injuries in the past few years. I think if it wasn't the risk, now it's the knee, how does surgery going into CME?

She wanted the beginning of the year, one founders, and I think she won, what was it? HSPC, and so I think she's just been battling herself a lot, kind of similar to maybe Minji, but more physically. And you know, you've seen her get into playoffs, fraught Megan Kang, Megan Kang ultimately prevailed. And I just, I look at I look at Jin Young-Co and I wonder just into context of injury, is, you know, is her body ever going to be the same? Are we going to see the same Jin Young Co that we saw in 2019 and kind of that era? And I hope, you know, I hope we see that two-time

major championship winning year like that, similar to what the kind of stretch that Lilia had this year. And so I don't know. I would, I'm between me and success just because we know Virginia and Co is capable of, but it's really hard to fault her when injury is in her way and she ended up withdrawing from CME even though she had the surgery weeks before. And so it's just been, I think it's just been, it's been, there's been some success, but it's not been the year she's wanted and it's the end of the year was kind of tough.

And I'm going to fall between success and meh. I'm not trying to go too hard on her. I think it's mad at disappointment personally, but I do recognize the injuries. I think it's met a disappointment personally, but I do recognize the injuries. And I think the biggest thing that, or the biggest reason why I land there is, I just wanted to see more of a threat at the major championships. I think that's what's really lacking.

She had one top 10, it was tied for ninth at Chevron. And then like she wasn't a factor really at all at any of the other majors. The next spec's finish, she had a couple tied for 20th, finished tied for 30th at the British and then missed the cut at the at Pebble Beach. I acknowledge injuries, I acknowledge that's a factor,

but I still think it's disappointing. I think Jinyoung Kho's got to be more of a factor the five biggest weeks of the year. So you're a little nicer than I am, Jordan. Tough, tough greater. Well, the only thing that I'd add on Jinyoung Kho is like her explorations and deep diving into the local cuisines everywhere she goes.

Truly is fascinating to me. I think she has started to use that as her primary talking point in every presser. So I don't know if she's trying to rally some more local support, but whether that's lobster rolls in the Northeast to some other seafood when we're out in California and then talking about poutine and and donuts and stuff like that up in Canada. It was

truly fascinating to see, but that was it. We just need people to start stacking some majors. Lillia, Lillia, we got, you know, we got, we got an Anna Norquist with three right now. Inji Chun's got three other like that's really it is for those of the leaders as far as the active players. We got a bunch of people at two and we got a bunch of people at one. Yeah. You know, but like, Rochenderson's got to Randy, I just don't think you're being hard enough on Nelly. Like we're like we are in the prime of her career. And...

No, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I Let me talk about a tie at Tidacom real quick. 20 years old. So rewind to 2022. It was a rookie year on the LPGA Tour as a 19 year old. She won twice. Truly the sky's the limit. I think everybody you talk to anywhere. Players, commentators, caddies, like I've never heard anybody say like, oh, Tidacool, she doesn never heard anybody say, like, oh, titic cool.

Like she doesn't. Everybody raves about her game. Okay. So high expectations coming into 2023. I thought, certainly she'll, she'll win. Perhaps this is the year she knocks off a major. I think I was really hoping for that. She did neither.

And so I think it's really easy to say because of that, it was a disappointing year. But I'm actually going to show a soft side. I think it was a successful year. And I know that sounds crazy. But I point to two things. She led the LPGA tour in top 10s, which points to, and I believe she led by at least a couple. She had 13 top 10s, which tells me she played a ton of good golf throughout the year. Just can get a win.

And then the second thing I point to is she won the Var trophy this year, which goes to the lowest scoring average on tour for the season, and which comes with a Hall of Fame point. And she captured that as a 20-year-old. I don't think it was a complete success, but I do think her season belongs in the success category that the two glaring weeks. And really, she had a withdrawal,

so technically, I guess she missed three cuts, but she missed the cut at the KPMG at Baltic Rull and she missed that Pebble Beach. And like you guys said, those were back-to-back tournaments with a week in between. And it's just tough, right? Because if you're kind of off your game, you miss out on like probably two of the best weeks this year, along with the women's open. So I will acknowledge those were very disappointing weeks, but outside of that, it was just top 10s out the ass.

I think she's somebody, and this is maybe hopeful, wishful thinking, I think she's primed for a monster 2024. I think 2024 is gonna be what maybe I hope people hope 2023 was gonna be. I could see her winning a ton. I am so bullish on a tie at sitcom. I think she is ready to join Rooning in and Lily Avoo

and like it's on, the major race is on and I hope that's the case in 2024. I love that. I think 2024 is gonna be a banner year for women's golf. You got a soul home cup in the States. You got Sawhale. You got Lancaster. You got St. Andrews. The old course. That's that's the good stuff. Yeah. Bring that shit on. T.C. I asked you to break down Brookhenderson's year. Yeah. It's a firm solid met Randy. It's, you know, she's second and avion. She won the diamond resorts, you know, event. That's not a real like that's like

maybe like half a half win. Maybe. Yeah. You know, her scoring rank, she fell inside the top 10 and in scoring rank for the first time in like five years, she was 13th, scoring average above 70 for the first time since 2016. So, you know, played 24 times, I know we've always talked about her being maybe 10 and up too much. That's up from 22 times in 2022, but down from her peak of 30 31 times, they're in the mid 2010s. So overall, you know, kind of whatever, made 19 cuts out of 24 events, only three top 10s. So I feel like her, you know, that's first is 10 last year and seven the year before. So that's the lowest amount of top 10 she's had since 2015

when she only played four events. Like this was probably the worst event of her, or like the worst season of her pro career. I think you got to throw out 2020 that you only played 10 times there, just with COVID and everything. So yeah, this was probably the most inconsistent lowest floor season of her career. So overall, I don't know, it's it's it's funny. I was digging into the stats a little bit. She hit 73% of her fairways, which, you know, the PGA tour that would be near the near the top of the pile. That's 78th, the LPGA tour. that's 78th in the LPGA tour. It's a hit three quarters of your fairways.

So she's 26 now, she's been a pro for eight years now. I'm not sure if there's a lot more there, right? I think we've seen, we know what Brooke Henderson is at this point. I could see her winning another major at some point. Goes back to Sawhale this year, the KPMG Women's PGA, where she's won prior. But I think we know who and what she is. She's a solid above average top 10 player in the world.

She feels like kind of a, you know, maybe a Zander Shoffley or a, you know, or a, I don't think who else, like Bill Haas, you know, something of that nature. Yeah. Definitely better results than Bill Haas. I understand what you're saying. I think Xander is spot on still.

I mean, she'd top 20 player in the world, weekend, week out. I mean, she's always gonna be there. Oh, that's so good. He even brightened. I mean, that's, I think you're cutting, you're being overly harsh on Brooke, putting Bill, what have the audience coming after me?

Anything from the rest of the group on Brooke that we're missing? No, I think that's I think TC you captured my feelings. I think she's a threat to win majors, but I just don't put her in the upper echelon. I just don't know if she has the top gear that some of these other Women have is is where I'd net out with Brooke She's super interesting because it seems like you know, she's got this Awesome swing. She hits the shell of the ball She's got touch. I can't figure out why it all doesn't add up to something more

Yeah, that was good for me because I've been, you know, high on the brook train for the last five years or so. I'm surprised Randy didn't assign that one to himself. Well, I sometimes I get accused of, you know, the Canadians think I'm very unfair to brook, so I wanted to give it to TC to see what he thought. Cody, I assigned you the next one is Charlie Hall. And I think it's an easy like, oh, yeah, it was a successful season. But I think there are some interesting questions with Charlie. And so I'm curious kind of how you would synthesize her 2023.

I would say it's a definitely a resounding success. Last year coming out, rounding the year, I think we would say after winning in Dallas, we didn't really know. She started the year off 17th on the Rolex ranking. What am I missing? What's going on? Jordan, the floor is yours. Resounding success is a stretch. Yeah.

See, this is where I think it gets interesting. All right. Because we come out of the years when that's happening is the surrounding success is a stretch. Yeah, see, this is where I think it gets interesting. All right, because we come out of the universe open. That it's like we come out of the US women's open and I'm like, all right, like

Charlie's here. She might got something going on. And I think kind of squandering the women's open was was just a not. And the momentum or the tournament? At the momentum. I, I mean, like, just beneath success, but not me, but I think resounding success is certainly a stretch here. Oh my goodness. Okay. I'm going to do it to you then. We're going to punish people for putting themselves into the arena. Okay. So there's three rounds. Everybody has one bad round that's fine.

None other times outside of the one victory that she had. Like I said, started the year 17th in the world, finished the year she's eight in the world now. She started out hot at Diamond T2, and you know, Brooke was hot that week. Charlie should have won that tournament. Missed the cut at the Chevron, not because of poor play, she had hot that week, Charlie should have won that tournament. Missed the cut at the chevron, not because of poor play, she had a broken heart, okay?

That was a big story of the year, all right? It took her a while to get over that. We mended that, we got over that relationship, we moved on to the next one, and we were off to the races. We got to pebble, as you said, maybe she gave that tournament away. I would say that honestly, Allison came to me.

I think Allison went and got that. For sure. All right. So there, T2 at Pebble, moves on. We can discuss the women's open. From being there, I will say I have never kind of experienced the, when somebody is playing in a major championship that truly is like in their hometown, what that felt like because it did not matter

where we walked around with. It was okay the first two days because it was Charlie and it was Georgia. And then when Georgia just kind of like no showed and wasn't in there, it was, you know, tens and tens and tens of thousands of people radio TV. Everybody was there strictly on Charlie and her struggling with ADHD and everything else that's going on around her.

I thought that she handled herself very, very well. I think again, like, Lily went out and won that tournament in decisive fashion. Could Charlie have put up a better fight? Yeah, she could have. But I also think that, like, you know, Charlie hit some really, really bad shots. She played sloppy golf. She got away with a ton because her score and that final round, she played worse than that. All right. Came out of that went to Sinci. Awesome showing in Sinci back that up. Go to the Soulheim Cup and I think like from start to finish showing up later than everyone. Not realizing that like it was tough, but I think that the one of the moments outside of Caroline and everything

else that happened at the Soulheim Cup was Charlie not understanding that, like I said, Charlie showed up a day late. So all of their wardrobes, you know, their clothing are hung up in their closets labeled by day. So when Charlie shows up, the next day she puts on the clothing labeled day one, thinking that that's what she's supposed to wear, except for she came late. So it's everybody else's day too. And it took Charlie five days to finally get on schedule to the fact that she showed up to the first T on Friday morning to open the Soul Heimcup, she was wearing the wrong skirt. They had to send her back to the locker room to put on the

proper uniform in order to come back out, almost missed her T time. And she like, you'll played really, really good. Carly rules. She was the leader of that locker room. She was the person that that Captain Patterson leaned on when she needed something to break the tension, but at the same time when she needed somebody to like, get that team room fired up and to go out and capture that Sunday signals, it was Charlie who she turned to.

Like I think that that, I just don't know how you could not say that the year was not successful for Charlie Hall. I did four, should four second place finishes. She made over twice as much money as she made previously. She, she got inside the top 10 in the world. She clearly raised, raised her floor and her ceiling.

She made 11 or 15 cuts. She played a little bit less than she has in previous years. Yeah, I don't know. I'm on Charlie. Successful season. I think Jordan, what do you, I think you took issue with resounding? Resounding because resounding is quite the modifier here. I like resounding. I can award to Lilyavu perfectly. Charlie, Charlie had a good year. I'll give it to Charlie. Charlie had a great year. It's the best year of her career. How is that not a resounding success for her? Yeah, she is. All right. To play devil's advocate, she missed, she missed the cut in three of the five majors. It's crazy. She's either feast her family. The remiss

cuts and two runner ups in majors. That's nuts. I think you just can't put her in a box. No, you can't. You absolutely can. That feels a little too, Charlie, whole. We do want to see her win. I think that's, I won't dinger in 2023, but looking forward, like, come on, Charlie, let's get a major, let's convert

some of these weak to week strong performances into a few more wins. Next player on the list, I honestly, I wrote this down, Hugh Joochim, and the more I looked at it, like this was a successful season. I don't even have like a counter argument to make against this. She remained in the top 10. She won in Texas. She played pretty well in the majors.

I believe she was second in the bar trophy. I don't really know why I wrote down a huge you at Kim, but if anybody doesn't think it was a success, we can talk about it. But I, I, in the interest of time, I'm not sure we have to spend a lot of time with this one. Okay. Uh, Jordan, I asked you to break down Leon and Maguire. Curious where this falls out. I'm feeling meh leading disappointment because I feel like I heard disappearing at KPMG was just bad. Just really tough.

I think it was like what? Like a stretch of like 69-68s and going into Sunday shoots a file around 74, like no. And I put fairly high expectations on Lyon and McGuire specifically because like that's a former world number one all right and she was a world number one for a long time. And Kaseyne Point, Lily Avivu, former world number one amateur, has exceeded those expectations. And I just, it was sort of a weird year of somewhat sustainability, but I thought it was maybe the year

that Leona would break out, kind of just based on the way that she ended 2022. And that's not to say it was bad. Like, she was a factor at Soulheim Cup, but I just, I'm, I'm, I'm well-mped at Lyonamaguaya right now. I, there was nothing really that stood off the page. I, there was a win. I, like, you know, it's like when you go,

I love fast food analogies. So it's like when you, it's like, it's like when you go to McDonald's, you get what you ordered, but you're not raving about it to anybody in your life. And that's how I kind of feel about Leonardo McGuire. I love that. I have no, I think a win is no worthy.

All right, I guess I'll say that. She only had one in her career that was last year. So to get a second one this year is no small feat. She did play well at the Soulheim Cup, you know, she backed up her magical 2021 with another very, very good Soulheim Cup performance, which I thought was impressive. But yeah, I'm overwhelmed. I love that. Say, you got me there. I'm, I'm overwhelmed just like you. Leonas feeling a little bit like Tommy Ladd. Yeah. Just throwing it out there. She's a team match play killer. You know, I mean,

Tommy's won a bunch on a DP World Tour. I don't know if you guys are that, you know, Leonas, you should win a lot more than she does. Tommy's got a lot more top fives and majors for us, but similar profile I feel like. And Leonas, 29, right, almost 30. She just ran out of gas. That, I mean, the four rounds of Meyer and then the first two rounds at KPMG,

she just couldn't do it. of Meyer and then the first two rounds at KPMG, she just couldn't do it. God, this is why I love like Soulheim Cup and even that women's match play, it's I just love watching players like Liyona and Lynn that maybe can't put together four rounds or like that. They're not that's not their strong suit, but man, you send them out against an opponent in an 18 hole match play and they're gonna come back with a carcass or mouth. I love that. I love that. Speaking of Lynn, TC, I asked you to give us a final analysis of Lynn season. You hinted at it earlier. Yeah, this is tough. It's certainly not a resounding success.

I'm not even sure it's a success. I think probably borderline between men and success. I was thinking she's going to get up to top 10. It's just not the outright dominance that, that, that I've foreshadowed, I think. She won twice worldwide. She won the Dana Open in July by three shots. You know, she was over, she was able to finally come over to the States or return to the

States in May. She had no top 10s and majors. You know, again, that, maybe that's a big adjustment, right? Figuring out what her rhythms, what her machinations look like throughout the neck, kind of through her first real LPGA season and hopping in kind of mid-season. We'll see if 2024 is a better year for her.

But I was impressed, right when she came over, she notched a third at the match play. She won four starts later. She had top 10s at Canada in Portland and then ended the season with a whimper. I think she was probably exhausted. For me, it comes down to like, she hits so many greens and she's just got to figure out the putter. Like it's, she's in proximity. She's a final round 76 at Walton. He really bummed me out. and thought she was in line to do something special there. And even on the ladies European tour, she didn't dominate or do anything. I think she won one server there, but didn't really flash even before she came over

in May. So overall, I would say, I would say Matt is first my expectations go. Randi, I'm not sure why you signed this to TC because I just don't think there's enough room in his Swedish fandom heart for Lindgren. Do you do you differ Jordan? Do you think it was a success? Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't have anything much to add in, you know, in opposition. Like it was fine. And yeah, she, she, the sample size of the thing is a little too small. I, I, I'll just say the sample size, it feels a little too small. And I really like to what I saw at the Soulheim Cup.

And right, maybe she's, she's kind of like Leona in that way. And that's fine. Maybe that'll be your legacy, but I think it's too early to tell. But like she, she's 24. She's, you know, she's got all the tools. She's a, she's got my favorite swing in the world. She hits the hell out of the ball. Like, you know, she's, she won what four or five times last year on the ladies European tour. Like this is a top five player in the world, you know, and that's what she profiles as and she needs to hurry up and get there. TC, I was going to ask, what, what are your expectations, are you re adjusting your expectations

for next year? No, I'm not. I mean, she's made her last six cuts and majors, finishing the top 20 and four of those five. Like I think she's she's on her way. It's just not happening as quickly as what I've thought, but not everybody can be Ludwig, right? Of course, of course. I still think it's I still think it's coming. She won four L.E.T. events last year.

This year she did win one L.E.T. event. The job where ladies open. I agree. I think this is one of those things that we just have to kind of be cognizant of the very lofty expectations, based primarily off of her play. Like I think it's just one of those things where there's a lot of change in Lynn's life of, you know, I could not imagine what it was like to, you know, get your LPGA tour card, then have like restrictions placed on you. Obviously it was her choice not to give vaccinated,

but then to like, you know, make the most out of it playing a somewhat full L.E.T. school and everything else and not like she just stuck on L.E.T. She traveled all over the place. She just couldn't come to America. And then when you finally come to America, and I'm sure she had very high expectations as well, and it just didn't really pan out. It wasn't a bad year by any means. I think you're kind of right on the head where it's just like, it is in between success and met, just because the expectations are so lofty.

All right, here's a question, because she's only a year younger than Nelly. Who are you taking moving forward? Lynn or Nelly? Lynn for sure. I mean, this is one of those things of, yeah, for sure. 100%. This is one of those things of scar tissue.

Like Lynn and her engulfing ears. And I say, this is a thing with Ludwig too. And like, you could have somebody who comes out that, you know, the Tom Kim analogy, Nellie's been playing professional golf for a long, long time. There is scar tissue that's been built up because of that, you know, and Lynn is still young and fresh and is still very, very early in her professional golf career. I think if you look at at swing wise, what attributes each of them have in their golf game, Lin is a more powerful and better player than Nelly is. They both have wonky putters, but it seems like Lin has a better chance of getting that figured out that Nelly does.

I agree. I can't believe it. Randy, are you taking it? I just can't believe we're in this place. And I think I agree with you guys. When you first said that, I was like, wait, what? But it makes sense. I might trust in more in big moments too.

Just because of that lack of scar tissue, Cody. Wow. Yeah, I think there's a lot more durability on Lin-Side. And I feel like if we see another year of like what 2024 was for Nellie, then absolutely. Resounding. I think we're short-trifting Nellie, though, because Nellie's floor is extremely high. I mean, look at the year she she just put together, right? I think she would say it's not nearly her best

or what she's capable of. And yet she's, you know, she's like right there in every statistical category. I think the last one I was gonna be the most fascinating with. Cody, I asked you to give us the analysis of Rose Zhang, her first year. Rose Zhang, I think I'm going to give my grade here first, and everybody's going to have different grades, of course, based off of expectations that they expect as we have learned.

I have tried continuously this year when everybody has said that, oh my goodness, look at this. This is what we expect. This is what she should be. Winning majors right away and everything else, I have always tried to dampen them and when results didn't come, I fully understood it because she is still

very, very, very early in her professional career. But I will say this year is a success. And I'm gonna cheat a little bit in doing that because I'm not just gonna take her professional career, I'm also gonna include her amateur results. I'm gonna say An-Wah. And I will say in the shakiest possible way, there's some with her at Augusta National,

she just, she struggles around there. I was very fortunate to be there for that final round and to be there during the playoff and be kind of embedded with the rest of the Stanford women's team and being part of that experience and like really being for the majority of that back nine and then definitely in the playoff being like, oh my goodness, am I here watching like, if Rose loses, it's like, this is horrible. This is not good. But luckily she was able to sneak that out. I think the makeup for that to be able to go back to back

and win her second NCAA individual title was a huge moment for her, fully knowing that that was going to be the end of her amateur career. She finishes it as the number one amateur in the world. She has the the record for longest amateur women's golfer in the world and then setting sites and kind of slowly seeing her evolution as she comes out onto the LPGA tour. We get to Mizzouho, obviously, playoff win in her first ever professional victory. Was that clean? No, it wasn't clean at all, but it was enough to get the job done. She, of course, did not play in the

chevron because she was still in Amateur, but the rest of her majors, she had a T8 finish at the KPMG. She finished T9 at the US Women's Open. She had T9 at Evion. So three top 10s in those majors, T44, disappointing finish at the AIG Women's Open. I know we talked a lot about that during that week, Randy. We had very lofty goals. At the end of the day, I just don't think Walden Heath was a very good course fit for her. And that ultimately showed in her results. But total played 14 events and she only missed two cuts. So all in all for somebody who, you know, just her and professional with the highest expectations thrust onto her to

get a victory in her opening year to have the top tens of majors that she did have to have a caddy switch towards the end of the year. And I think like showing all signs that she is figuring out what her professional golf life is going to be, I will say it was a success. I agree. I think the one thing I was gonna say

was the Soul Home Cup was kind of relatively unimpressive, but you could say the same thing. Like it's pretty similar year to Ludwig's, right? Like made the Ryder Cup team one in his rookie year and, you know, kind of like I would have liked to have seen a little bit more sustained success after Mizzouho, just as far as kind of top end stuff, but all and all, like the fact that she got that done is huge. Do you call those rookie years comparable? No, I think Ludvix was a lot better. Like he won on two tours.

He won, you know, he was first or second round leader a bunch of times and kind of melted on Saturdays and then fixed that. I feel like there was a lot more linear progression with Ludvix, whereas I feel like Rose kind of came out as a fireball and then kind of dissipated a little bit as the year went on. That's fair.

The Soulheim talking about Rose there, it was the first time that I noticed that she felt kind of out of place that maybe the moment the environment was maybe a little too big for her. It just kind of seemed that way. I don't know if she, you know, she talked about like, I never even expected this being an opportunity or an option for me this early on in the year. And she does a really good job of downplaying

everything. But you could truly see that like in pressers, when the rest of them are all kind of mingling together and everything else like that, she felt kind of, you know, not sure if she was, I don't know how to say this. She wasn't a fish out of water, but she didn't feel as, as a part of the team, as everyone else did. And I think that's just something that takes, you know, years and years of being on tour and seeing and being around the same faces. The other thing that kind of worries me a little bit is that it doesn't, like, she's a really good iron player, right? It doesn't feel like she's got one skill that is going to transcend or help her dominate, her success is going to be predicated upon playing very, very consistent golf over a long period of time, which we'll see if that equates, you know, like in some people's

minds, the hype around someone like her is, hey, you better win and you better do it in dominant fashion. And versus looking at the sum of someone's season. And I feel like her success is going to be more along the lines of consistency and high floor kind of stuff than it is. Like, hey, she won by six and, you know, everybody away. She's probably bottom half and driving distance. She's, you know, top, top third and driving accuracy, greens and like she hits a ton of greens and you know, and I think the putter is just really streaky, right? She always had that

consistency in her amateur career though. So we're saying that. Well, I'm saying like that's her skill. Like that's one of like she doesn't have that one thing that's like she's gaining a shitload of shots on everybody. Right. But is that so is that element of just totally obliterating everybody kind of disappearing, we think? I just yeah, it's you know she's going up against better competition where it's just all I'm saying is that for some people to hype may not ever match the results because the results don't look that like they're not going to jump off the page of you. They're, it's going to be the totality of the results, the, the consistency, the number of top five, number of top 10s, the number of wins instead of the dominance of those

wins. Cody, I think you made a good point about the Soulheim Cup specifically. You know, she that Sunday singles match against Leona. Rose just kind of looked like a, I think my one thing I want to see from Rose, she is so level headed and like downplays everything. level headed and like downplays everything. I want to make sure though that I'm just curious what kind of mindset she has because she was kind of like a wide-eyed little like bond out there against Leona. T.C. you're talking about taking carcasses back like Leona just like I'm not sure if Rose was ready for that moment or, you know, got in that moment was like, Oh, shit, like this is a different type of beast than I've seen before. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I want, I want some of that kind of quiet aw shucks to turn into like steely determination. All the time in the world, she's 20. I guess my question to wrap things, what are your expectations for 2024, Cody, for Rose? Where do we go from here? I would say we see the same consistency in major championships. I would say that she is flirting with, you know, obviously competing but winning in major championships. I would say that she is flirting with, you know, obviously competing,

but winning a major championship. I think Sahali and I think Lancaster fit her very, very well. One thing, TC, that you kind of brought up and I think Jordan, you're kind of getting to is that the golf course on the LPJ tour is set up a lot different than the courses that she was playing in college. And she does not hit the ball that far. She's going to need to get some distance in her game because everything else is there. And the makeshift little finger trying to figure out leg putt thing like she she has to fix that because she hits way too many greens to be that shaky of a of a putter. I think moving and we don't know she still has all the on the bag this this week. And we don't know what is going to happen and who she's going to have on the bag full time in 2024. But I know gilly was a very you know experienced caddy and was able to stable her and get her through a lot of her rookie year, but I also know that they're just not a lot of.

Not a lot of common commonalities there. And we'll see because I think all he has outgoing as he is could be a very calming presence when she needs to be, but also somebody, you know, because Rose likes to, she kind of likes to shoot the shit. And I think he's the perfect person that can keep her loose when he needs to. And he's been out there long enough and is used to big moments. And it knows from years and years of of being with Danielle of when to snap in and to be serious about it and to get your player ready to go. You know, it's just going to be a long, she's used to running marathons. I just don't see Rose being like the sprinter just because the competition is that much better out there.

Kind of amazing. We've made it what two hours into this thing and that was the first mention of Danielle canning. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a lot like that too. I just think it gets back to. There's tremendous depth in the women's game right now. And it's like each new year, I get more and more excited just because of some of the people joining from the amateur ranks and, um, yeah, Daniel. It's time for us to see some some people right it's time to separate the wheat from the shaft a little bit or the wheat from the shaft a little bit as Neil would say. You know like even like people like Angel like you know Angel just got her first win or

or Madeline or Maya like like you know, rise above kind of, it's really, really deep and wide. And I want to see it kind of get a little bit, you know, hey, let's figure out, let's get a little bit, like more tears here as far as elite players and that sort of thing. So. Well, we'll end it with some topics. Thank you to some folks on our refuge message board.

I solicited some topics of interest from them. Guys, do we want to talk about, I feel like, with the news of John Rom to live on the PGA side, maybe we just kind of dive into what we're hearing about the LPGA and LET merger and what the heck the PIF and Saudi Arabia might have to do with that. If folks don't know over the summer, really throughout the year, and I know it started prior to this year, we've been kind of in this ongoing, are the LPGA and LET going to merge operations. I think the plan was to obviously keep two separate tours,

but introduce an opportunity for some top finishers on the LET tour to gain status on the LPGA tour. We just found out a couple of weeks ago that the vote to kind of formalize, finalize that merger in a lot of sense was delayed. It seems like that has been a delay coming from the LET side.

TC or Cody, I know we've been trying to talk to some folks. What are kind of the rumors we're hearing with regard to where the L.E.T. and the L.P.G.A. stand? And what does Saudi Arabia have to do with any of that? I'll give a little background here before we get to that side of it, but this is not something that is new. The L.P.G.A and the ladies European tour have been in a joint venture together for the last three seasons started at the beginning of 2020 when they came together with primarily the reason of the LPGA tour has more resources

at their disposal and they wanted to bolster the LETs prize pools. What is happening now in this this current vote that was put up was the formalizing of that joint venture underneath this new umbrella organization. Part of that is the LPGA tour cards. Yeah, LPGA tour cards that are offered to the top finishers and the seizing ending ladies, European tour race. But the other part of that was what's reported as a 1.25 million dollars a year investment from the LPGA into the LAT tours for their prize purse. This is where I get confused on it is because just like the PGA tour saga, is that what is being reported is that there is a vote for a merger between the LPGA tour and the LET tour,

and that is not the case. All right, I think this is one of the rare instances where the LPGA tour thought that they're trying, I think they thought that they're a little bit smarter than they actually are. And I don't think they realized that the ladies European tour had, you know, other assets that they're disposal, specifically when it comes to a Ramco and the PIFs investment in the ladies European tour. What we know is, you know, we've seen this the last couple of years with the Ramco ladies series,

as well as the LET Saudi International. The Saudi International has a $5 million purse and the reason why it's $5 million is because that's what the PIF wanted to put up for it. The reason why Chevron's purse had to jump up from 5 million to 5.1 or 5.2 is because the PIF put $5 million and they did not want a major championship to have a less purse than an LET event. In total, I think it's right at about 8.5 half million to nine and a half million dollars a year that the PIF is investing into the ladies European tour right now.

So. So that makes the LPGAs 1.5 million. Paltry. Not only that part of this deal would be to basically take all of the ladies European tours intellectual property. So all of their media arm, their tournament operations, everything, and they would put this underneath this new umbrella corporation that would be primarily managed by who knows who would actually get these new positions, whether it be LPGA people or LET people or what's not.

Susan Waley. Yes, but that is kind of where we're currently at. So as Randy said, there's a vote put forward for the on the ladies European tour for the players to vote for it. And at the last second, there was some new information that people have reported now that came to light. And nobody's really talked about what the new information is. Well, that's because primarily a group of players that European based players that are part of the, you want to call them a Ramco, or really, they're just golf saudi ambassadors, I would say say hey before we do this

the PIF Performance 54 has a Another offer that they would like us to consider so in order they didn't have that complete offer Ready to present in time so instead of voting on this new proposal they decided to To step step back from that and not vote on it. Kind of leaving the LPGA tour high and dry in the time being TC. Is there anything that I missed there up to that point? No, like I figured that the, I don't know, I thought the LPGA tour their whole inclination to do this is to get the Saudi money in the side door a little bit and you know kind of

you know align with the with the LP with the ladies European tour without having to basically rebrand the LPGA tour as you know the a ramp co-tour or whatever kind of do that you know through slight of hand a little bit so So, I think that is. Yeah. But it just seems like they're getting out maneuvered a little bit as far as, you know, the, because I don't, I don't like, I was blown away at just like how, how amateurish the ladies, the ladies European tour, logistics and planning and everything were at the Soulheim Cup, where the way that they outsourced that to the local, you know, local golf federation or whatever. But yeah, I don't know.

I don't think you're missing anything. It seems like there's a lot of smoke out there. It seems like there's some things happening way, way, way above, you know, most people's pay grade on this. So, hey, the stuff's happening in Washington or it's happening, you know, all over the world. I think it's a matter of the piff could snap their fingers and spend 3% as much money as they're spending on live

and totally own women's golf, totally take over women's golf. Or, you know, it's the same thing with, you know, hopefully some of these like I just saw today that Wells Fargo is stepping away from the PGA tour because it's gotten too cost prohibitive. Hopefully we see some of these same organizations that don't want to spend 40 million dollars on a signature event. Hey go spend eight million dollars on an LPGA major you know Hey, go spend $8 million on an LPGA major, you know? 100%.

100%. But yeah, I don't know. And then Susie Wale's name just keeps popping up everywhere. Let me let me let me introduce you. I think if there is like a big. A Ramco. If investment and if they have designs of challenging the LPGA tour or wanting to take an upper hand and perhaps design and create a more global tour, it sounds like Susie Waley might be the person

that they want to tap to lead this potential organization. Suzy Waley being a long time PGA of America member played in one of the few females that usually does not get mentioned when we talk about females competing on the PGA tour, qualified for that by being her section champion, I believe, and then moved up all the way through the ranks of the PGA of America tour. She was the president of the PGA of America. One thing to note is that her daughter, Kelly, has been playing on the ladies European tour for the past two, three years. Yes, with minimal success, but there are kind of a true love situation very much. There's definitely ties there. She does not actually play in the majority of Lady European tour events. She actually just plays in the Aramco team series based off of her relationships

with Aramco performance 54 PIF. I don't really know where it adds, but for the majority of the time, you can basically just assume that Susie has been involved in all of those deals and it's not a, you know, it's a name that they're very, very, very familiar with. Now, why does this matter? And I think this is where it gets down to of when, as it sits right now, so people, you can say Nelly Lydia, any of the other LPGA tour members who want to go play in a Ramco team series event as they currently sit right now, they have to get a conflicting event release policy signed or a memo signed to say that, hey, I am, I am not playing this the same as a PJ tour. I'm not playing this LPJ tour event this year. If there's a conflicting event, I'm

going to go play in this one. There are only allowed three of those releases a year. We know that these big money, a ramp code team series events, there's a lot more than three of them. Some of them take place in the United States. You can get an additional one on top of the third one if it is in mainland Europe, I think. But what it basically is is that they're trying to put everybody into this LPGA tour basket and then when the girls want to go play for this big money

because they're assuming I think that the Aramco deal will stay on the LET side that not all of them will be able to go do that. So it's caused this big kind of division within a lot of the European base players who play on the LPGA tour. Some of them who are still on LET but would like to accept membership in the LPGA tour. So it's, it's a very muddy, muddy thing. We're at the end of the day. I still don't understand why Molly just doesn't go and say,

yeah, let's do this. And like, let's bring these a ramp co events underneath the LPGA tour umbrella. Why can't they be kosch, it's koshtanation event, especially in the context of everything going on with the PGA tour. Exactly. Well, I just wonder if some of the heavy LPGA sponsors don't want to be associated with. Share them.

Yeah. I don't know. That's maybe my best guess. I want to play this game because this is what I was thinking of too. What sponsor do you think would come up and say that? Chevron? Maybe Chevron, yeah. thinking of two, which sponsor do you think would come up and say that? Chevron? Oh, maybe Chevron, yeah. You think they're going to be a big while who has oil fields and Saudi Arabia.

You think they care? You think any of the Asian companies who sponsor 50% of the other LPGA tour events, you think they care? No, the one I think might care the most is KPMG. And we just there's doesn't KPMG like do stuff like don't they have an office in for yard? Very much. Yeah, I it's just a tricky spot though, because I know KPMG puts so much emphasis on women in sport and ladies. Yeah, like, women's right. So it's a good.

Listen, I'm not saying that they care about women in sport. Yes, I would say that they're, they're, they're mopping KPMG's investment in women's and sport. I would say that there's probably like, I think that's part of the thing, like running through the schedule.

There's not enough big sponsors at this level, right? Like that are spending the requisite money. There's some people picking some stuff off here and there, but there's no, you know, you don't have anybody that like other than a KPMG or like even like, it seems like Procter and Gamble, they're just kind of dip in their toe in or Kroger, dip in their toe in like there's

You know the LPGA match plays is Unsponsored right now. You've got the the JTBC Tournaments there probably one of the you know, I doubt the South Koreans have a massive issue with In aligned with the Saudis all right and another potential issue What about CME and I and I only say this from the standpoint of I would think a heavy, a ramp co investment, they would want perhaps the tour championship in Saudi. And I know like CME is, that's an $11 million per next year. The winner's going to get what, $4 million? $5 million?

The amount of money CME is putting into the tour championship. That tour championship is not going to be leaving wherever CME wants it to be. So I don't know if that's a potential friction just in terms of the schedule and some of the logistics. I don't have the answers. I don't know. I don't have the answers. I don't know. Yeah. This is another one of those things, though, where if they do not get ahead of it, people

will follow the money. All right. I mean, if they start their fingers tomorrow, I think, and that's great on Terry Duffy and the CME investment there, big. But like, if you don't have people that, you know, the best players in the world, they're going to compete for that purse, then doesn't really matter. And if that's the case, and you can get Terry Duffy to put up that much money for your

season ending event, that's a limited field event as it is, where's the rest of the purses? How come they're not going up at that clip? You know, I think we celebrate the new Boston event, but don't see a massive jump in purses across the board. I think when you look at it versus 2021, I mean, they're all drastically dressing, but it's not, there's other factors there too.

All right, the men's games leaving the dust overall, the inflation, all right, it's the men's games leaving in the dust overall, the inflation, all that stuff as well. I think the, I have a problem with the CME, like the $3 million or however much it's gonna be next year, $4 million to the winner, when it's like, feels like throwing good money at the wrong person, right?

Like, and I don't think anybody's, like it's not enhancing my enjoyment knowing that the winner gets $3 million or whatever, a million bucks versus like, spread that money around the top players a little bit more, I think. Instead of it just feels like a fluke, like, all right, you know, you, you know, if it feels like Russell Henley winning the FedEx Cup and, you know, you're like, oh, like that doesn't really make any sense for him to make $20 million or whatever. Yeah, I don't. Well, this kind of bleeds into something I wanted to talk about, which is Commissioner Marcusa-Mahn completing her second full year as Commissioner. I don't know. I mean, we don't have to do an in-depth comparison to the first year necessarily,

but where do you guys, Jordan, I'll let you start. Where do you think her commissionership is? Is it in a good spot? Are there any like big head scratching decisions that That you know what's what's your feel on Molly Marcusa mon? Maybe similar to Leona McGuire just kind of well And yeah, I guess if the eventual merger takes place on cool, but You know and the purses are going up like I'll hand it to her, that's fine. But it's just, I kind of hate,

I'm starting to get a little fatigued with the purers narrative because yes, do I think purses should increase absolutely, but there's such a weird performance to it that I don't love. And I think the product, the product, there is such potential for such a good product and it's like, it's really struggling a little. Like, my first thought is I think back to CME, kind of what T.C. was saying, it's like, the ramp up to CME specifically stinks. It stinks so much and I, you know, the Asia swing is tough to keep up with,

you know, that's not really conducive to building like such a strong, you know, domestic fanbase specifically. And then you're like, all right, we're at Cambridge. And these specific people really need to make it in or else they're not going to play it to see me. And it's just that from a narrative side, it stinks. And I... That's one specific example. And I know they are trying their best to revamp the schedule. The boss and stop is a nice domestic stop. And I just... At that, that, I really struggle with that because fine, purses can go up and stuff. But it's like, what are we playing for? It's kind of like the live analogy. go up and stuff, but it's like, what are we playing for? It's kind of like the live analogy.

Like you look at it, it's like, cool, I'm so glad you have millions of dollars now in generational wealth, but like, what are you playing for? And I love women's golf, and I want to see a level up, and I want to see more of a deeper competitive element, but I think it's format really is

on somewhat of a struggle bus right now. I'm also impatiently awaiting a better pathway for the college and the amateur players right now because it's just not there. And Q series keeps becoming more disqualifying in the sense that if a college or amateur player advances there, they have to turn professional. And I think that's a really unfair precedent to put on a college player at that time, especially when they're in the middle of a fall semester. And I don't know, it's not conducive to either saying like,

hey, cut your career short and take your chances here. Or, you know, they just don't have the same luxury as they do on the men's side. And the NIL money's not the same. There's so much about it that's not the same, that still lends itself to being somewhat unfair. And even just starting their careers out, it is. And so, it hurts because the women's amateur side isn't as much of a better place than it's ever been.

And it's so narratively consistent year-round now, where you have Anne, while you have the women's amateur side isn't so much of a better place than it's ever been and it's so narratively consistent year round now where you have anewal you have the women's amateur, you have, you see these players in majors and there's some level of visibility and recognition that we're able to string that connective tissue between rosang and racialck and all these upcoming players. Lachona Stone, you know, all of these faces, but we're making it, it feels strange that we're almost making it as difficult as possible for them to succeed. And there's such a good opportunity here and I think there's a lot of squandering and I don't know. I think those are really two specific points about Molly's tenure. So I just feel overwhelmed. It seems like there's, you know, she's fighting some

of the same things that big J's been steamboat J. Torsoid. Yes, steamboat J. Sorry. Of like, you know, like when she tried to give spots to, when when it leaked that she was going to give spots to, or I guess she just said it in one of the meetings, like, you know, five or 10 cards to L.E.T. players as part of this merger agreement. And, you know, some of the LPGA tour, you know, Mules kind of got, got, uh, you know, and I don't mean that disrespectfully, I'm like, the equivalent of the mules on the PGA tour. Kind of got mad. And I think it was more about,

hey, announcing it in season, oh, hey, this is going to affect next year. But I do agree, there should be an LPGA U. Or, you know, like I know the PGA tour is getting ready to, I think they're going to expand PGA tour you to the DP World Tour as well. So, you know, European players that play at US colleges, that'll, like, they'll have their own standing thing that will quate to cards on the DP World Tour. As far as the schedule goes, I do think there's,

I do see incremental improvements. It's not gonna be snap your finger. I think like, for instance, Lote, Lote going to November and being another US-based, like, you know, prime time event to kind of serve as a bridge

between the Asia swing and Gain Bridge and CME of like, hey, we're, you know, we're adding in, like a third event here that'll be in prime time, that'll kind of ease you back into watching LPGA because I totally agree, like the end of the season and the being of the season both feel bolted on. They've got this really exceptional stretch in, you know, really starts in March out in LA

and then, you know, they've bumped match play up into April now, which is great. Chevrons no longer going against Anwa, which is a huge win in and of itself. That'll be in mid to late April now. Go back to LA. And you've got founders and Mizzouho right into US women's open. Like it feels like there's a great cadence and Mizzouho right into US women's open. Like it feels like there's a great cadence in place through the end of June. It feels like kind of marched to June is gonna be prime time for women's golf.

And certain windows there too that are some of the weaker windows on PGA tour schedule where it's Zurich or it's some of the, some of the Eiffel early May events that don't get as much notoriety that aren't elevated. There's an opportunity there, I think. So they're cleaning stuff up, purses are going up, like I think there's results here.

And I'm optimistic, but there's just so much structural uncertainty as far as what this thing looks like from a Saudi investment perspective, you know, kind of, say, you know, existential stuff, I guess. But it seems like they're getting a lot of the details right here. But it's just, hey, you know what? Like, be more ambitious. Come up with a, like, come up with LPG8s's where you keep strength in the Epson tour, all that. But I would say the other big thing for me is this insistence that it has to be network television.

No, it just has to be, just get the cameras out there and focus, like instead of trying to trick, you just gotta be a good broadcast. Just gotta be a good broadcast. Let's start there instead of putting a shitty broadcast on network television. Yeah. Let's go the other direction. Let's start with, and I know it's, you know, like that takes some investment that takes

kind of chicken or egg, but man, I'm telling you at some point, like if you, if you say the die hard people that are watching anyway, I promise you we're gonna, like we're doing a better job of shining a light on how good this thing could be. And I think you're going to open people's eyes versus just, versus what happened at Balcestral, where you're putting a good golf product in a really, really shitty package. That's not doing favors for anybody. Yeah, I, lots of good stuff. I was, I was glad to see the LPGA struck a deal with ESPN to start getting more streaming of feature groups and just doing some augmented broadcasting. It's only going to be a handful of events, unfortunately, but it's at least a start.

And Jordan, I think it's such a good point in terms of like, I think everybody wants the women, the professional golfers. I think the two most important things are to have the US women's open purse commensurate with the men and the PGA of America, the KPMG event commensurate with the men, just because two national organizations that support both men and women, I feel like there should be minimal difference between the prized purses they play for. But after that, yes, our purse is going up a good thing, of course. But that's not what drives me as a fan. And I think that's where it's like they're so focused on, like,

hey, purses, purses are going up. Isn't that great? And people are like, yeah, yeah, but it's like, how can I have more enjoyment watching your product, right? Like I feel like there's equal need to go to golf channel NBC and like guys, we got to figure this out. The LPGA, I know I've said it before, but it just seems like such a ripe area to take chances, try new things. The last thing I want is for the LPGA to just kind of copy what the PGA tour has done and it feels a little bit that way with just like schedule and how we add impression of a bad product.

Exactly. Yeah, I just want to like shake and be like, yo, the PGA tour, it kind of sucks, right? Like do your own thing. Think outside the box. You guys are small enough, nimble enough. Like yes, it's disadvantageous in a lot of areas. But you should be better positioned to try new things

and to take chances and to maybe explore how to make a more interesting, engaging television product. You should be miking people like just all the things that we wish the PGA tour could do. There's no excuse for the LPGA not to be able to just really try a lot of different things. So yeah, I'm much more encouraged bringing it back to like the original question of Molly Marcusa-Mann. I think I'm more encouraged after her second year certainly than I was after the first year. I was nervous. I think the communication still needs a lot of work,

just her communication and availability with the players, week to week, consistent touch points. But in terms of her vision for the game and seeing some of the action that she's taken, I'm hopeful that they're going down a good path. And I do recognize it's hard to make a ton of wholesale changes all at once, but I do hope they just keep chipping away at some of these bigger problems. The only thing else that I would add is that she, you know, she's done a monumental job getting this calendar back under control. I just want to highlight that. Again, I think

she's leaned in with her partners. We talked about KPMG, but now KPMG with the LPGA tour talking about their, you know, going over the LPGA strategic goals, partnership, the work, over the next five years to figure out how they can get additional capital and back into the tour. Partner that up with the relationship that she struck with Fenway sports management earlier this year to look at marketing and everything else to help out the LPGA tour. The difference is when you go to an LPGA tour event for us and we see behind the scenes of like if we just take like social media and if you go like whoever that shooter is that is out there collecting stills or making reels or doing interviews specifically for LPGA

tour socials that also is their YouTube that also they put out on their website. That's one person who is producing it, who is shooting it, who is editing it, and most of the time doing the voiceover for it. Where if you go to a PGA tour event, those four different jobs are done by like six different people. No, no, no, it by like six different people. No, no, I would say like 75 different people. You know, they just have, they have an abundance of resources and manpower at their disposal, at the PGA tour, and the LPGA tour is putting out a phenomenal product on their own branded stuff with such limited resources and manpower tied to it. It's truly, it's so impressive to see and watch them do that.

And I know a lot of that is in their communications and marketing departments, they do an awesome, awesome job. But I think Molly, the biggest thing is that I think she is taking bold steps now. And she is, you see that by what's happening this week that unfortunately we're not going to be able to talk about the results for, but the partner event you see her taking that by new events. And I know I said earlier when we talked about, you know, price, you know, purse is not raising and being big enough, I think she is doing what she can.

I just think that it's one of those things where, you know, are we talking to everybody available? Or are we taking and trying to put band-aid still on things to make it okay when I think if she continues to make these big bold steps, you know, we will finally see the LPGA tour and these women athletes showcase the way that they should be, that they deserve to be. But the telecast is a heck of a different thing

unless there is substantial steps gained there. And that's where I hope, you know, some of this money they influx comes from is by somebody who is like, yeah, you know, we want to invest in the actual television product, the commercial product because it was a bad, bad year for TV in the LPGA tour. Happy to see ESPN, but there's still a long, long, long way to go. Hey, how was the last, I haven't watched like the last two episodes of the, the drive on series? I have not either PC. I need to. I watched a Soulheim Cup and we talked about it a couple weeks back big. It was very heavily on the

rookies. I think they focused on Cheyenne on the US side. And can't even remember who it is now on the European tour side. But it was, you know, I think that was another, a good decision to move forward with that limited series that they put out on YouTube. But I also think like they protect the players so much. Like not everything has to be this like beautifully chore like choreographed like overview of it. Like give us behind the scenes of like what is actually going on here. Because if you want people to invest in their product, you got to have a little bit of vulnerability tied into it. Not everything has to be a big pomp and circumstance of extremely polished fancy stuff. And towards the end of that series, I think that's where it kind of got.

Yeah. I think that's very fair. And I echo wholeheartedly, you gotta let us in a little bit more for people to take that next step and to really get deeply invested with these people and to care about what they do week to week. It takes vulnerability, absolutely. One of the things that I was asked about,

and I'll just kind of go through it quickly was What's what's the current state of investment sponsorship in the women's game and You know, I don't really know how to judge that from like a corporate level per se But there there have been a few things that have come out recently that that helped paint a picture One of the things going back to like the money in golf and Persises the New York Times ran an article in July of this year Just talking about where the LPGA tour has been and where they are now and and so to to level set

the LPGA the the total official money for their 36 events topped a hundred million dollars in 2023, which is up from 49 million. So doubled from 2013, 10 years ago. as recently as 2021, it was 70 million of total money available. Of course, that's coming off of COVID and there are variables there. But the overall trajectory is, you know, that the money in the women's game is certainly going up. I think that filters out into individual money. One this year, 28 players earned more than $1 million on the LPGA tour. There were four players that earned over two million and three over three million.

If we go back 10 years, only two players earned above $2 million. Nobody earned $3 million and only eight players earned over a million dollars for the season. So there is more money coming into the women's game. And then more broadly speaking, I don't know if anybody saw Wasserman, TC, your friends at Wasserman. Team Wass. I love Team Wass. They did a big research study recently about media coverage of women's sports. So not just golf, but all women's sports.

And they found that media coverage of women's sports, I'm quoting from the study, has increased to 15% of all media coverage of all sports. And while 15% still doesn't necessarily sound like a lot. It was at 4% recently. This was data that was looked at over 2018 to 2022. So about five years there. And they also project that if the current growth continues, women's sports is going to get 20% of all coverage as early as 2025. So I think it's just, I think it's good to

acknowledge that the overall sports landscape, we are seeing more dedicated focus coverage on women's sports. And I think the LPGA tour and women's golf, I know we're all hopeful that they'll be able to kind of continue writing this wave, but there are some shifts happening, which I think are both long overdue and great for not only these athletes, but the young girls that, you know, now have people that they can more easily see and watch and dream about becoming like that's a very important thing. So I think overall it's a exciting time for women's sports. With that said, and we'll end it here, we are very long into this. I'm curious from you guys, how did this was kind of our first year 2023 being, This was kind of our first year 2023 being, I don't know if all ends the right word, but just treating the LPGA tour like we try to treat everything else in the world of golf.

How did the year go for us guys? I'm curious what your favorite personal moments of the year were, anything that surprised you this year. Jordan, I hate to put you on the spot, but you shared internally. I'm not sure if you are comfortable sharing with the podcast listening audience. I just loved hearing what your highlight, personal highlight was from this year. The US women's open at Pebble, and you guys inviting me to go was definitely my personal highlight, like just of the year, generally speaking. And yeah, I wrote this in our What's Burning at the Kill House, but I basically,

and I did not reveal this internally until that What's Burning at the Kill House came out, but I cried the night before I left for Pubble because that was the first time I was on a live show and I was so nervous and just oh like just a total mess and I Get to Pubble and you guys are just the absolute best so gracious so patient so kind and so willing to You know teach me and kind of guide me through that. And I, on weeks like that, I'm such a scattered brained mess and just how great you all were

and how much fun I had, how much I laughed, how little sleep I got, and I don't regret that one bit was just every bit worth it. And I don't know. And yeah, Pebble was obviously a bucket list item. I mean, going to Pebble was so cool and seeing such a monumental moment in women's golf history was awesome, but it was even better spent with you guys. And I will simply never forget that. That was an honor to have you. Yes, me either, Jordan. Definitely a, yeah, it was awesome. The easiest fit inclusion into this

Rage Tag group possible. I just hope you're sleeping quarters were okay, but we stuck here in the closet. No, I'm just kidding. Big, I think I'm going to flip this around to you. You're the one that captains this here ship. You're the one that said, Hey, guys, I have this idea. Give me your, your bravest, give me your boldest who wants to come with me. How do you think it went? What are your highlights, man? boldest who wants to come with me. How do you think it went? What are your highlights, man?

I thought it went really well and I can't thank you guys truly enough for and all of NLU for for being receptive and supportive and going along with me. It has been a ton, a ton of fun for me. I will put Pebble Beach Week right up there against any experience. I had at NLU, just what a wonderful week that was. Cody, the late nights that we had in London, doing radio, doing the live show, trying to go get some shwarma at 11.30, that was just a ton of fun. And then to get to go to the Soulheim Cup on European soil in Spain, again, another super busy week. But thank God those Spanish people don't like to eat dinner until 10, 30, 11 at night. I complete opposite that our time and London. We couldn't get food out with slim pickings with Spain, holy cow.

But I think it's been, I truly think it's been, it's been very fulfilling for me. And I think that was the thing that was one of the driving forces. I've just, I'm not like completely out of love with the men's side, but through the last couple of years, I just have gotten a bit down on men's golf. And I think want an outlet to invest my,

my fandom into to watch and care about and follow and the women's game has just been right there. I find it. Imminently more relatable to the golf I play. I really enjoy getting to meet the players, a lot of players, their personalities, being out at tournaments. It's just such a relaxed, looser atmosphere, I think, than what I experienced on the men's side.

But it's not just because of that. I just think it felt like, I mean, I'll be honest. I think it felt like the necessary thing for us to do as a company. And I'm just proud that we're kind of putting our money where our mouth is a little bit. I feel proud that we're trying to do the things that we wish, other, you know, that we wish existed everywhere else.

So I think it's been great. And as we look forward to next year, it's just going to be more of the same. That's the hope and that's the plan. Yeah, I'm stoked to get to some of the, you know, the majors obviously, but even just, you know, like I'd love to get back up to Boston. Boston in the fall, yeah, or or late summer early fall is freaking awesome. Or I'm kind of keen to get down to Chevron. I want to see, I was talking to my aunt,

and Uncle, that I live out at the woodlands. They said nobody really knew about the tournament. Last year, they were just kind of like, yeah, it was just, like everybody kind of realized it was there like a week prior. And then a bunch of people kind of stopped by, went in there like, this is great. This is awesome. They're really putting their, you know, putting some resources behind this. I feel like there's going to be a lot more awareness and, you know, kinks worked out of that one here in 2024. So I'm going to try to get

down to to H town for that one. And then, And then I'd like to get to Ann Wug. And that was probably, that was a highlight. I think I'm trying to think, like what I went to that one was at 2021, 2022. 22, yeah. And that was like, you know, Cody, you can attest to that from last year. Like just that kind of represented everything I love

about golf, not women's golf, not men's golf, not competitive golf, just golf at large. Like it was, it was, you know, in a kind of a reminder, me of going to the masters as a kid before it got kind of crazy and commercial, you know, and like, you know, just really hard to get to. It was, it was very much like, it felt like the good old days back over again, as far as like, when I was growing up in like the 90s. So yeah, so I think, you know, getting back to those, I would say getting to those two and then seeing the women at St Andrews is going to be spectacular. Well, guys, we can leave it there unless

anybody has anything to get off their chest. I'll reiterate what a great season it was, interesting season. Lily Avue announced her presence and we won't have to wait that long. The 2024 season kicks off. I think the third week of January. So we'll take a bit of a hiatus on the women's front. We'll come back with some preview episodes and we'll get back on our normal cadence in 2024. But sincerely, thank you, Tron, Cody.

You guys were right here every step of the way. Jordan, big, big impetus on RN to make sure you're included in a lot more of these podcasts. I really enjoyed your writing. You've been a tremendous asset to everything that we do. So thank you very much guys. And also thank you to the listeners. We've gotten a lot of great feedback. There are people who've been fans of the women's game for years and years that are very appreciative that we're shining a bit of light on it.

That's wonderful to hear. There are people that are new to the women's game that have been like, you know, this is awesome. I got out to an event. I watched, you know, this is awesome. I got out to an event. I watched, you know, this major, I'm into it. And that's so awesome to hear as well. So truly, thank you to everybody listening. And we can't wait for 2024.

Well said, Biggie. Well, let's hit him with a cheers and crack on and get out of here. All right, see y'all. Cheers. Cheers. Well, let's hit him with the cheers and crack on and get out of here. All right. See y'all cheers That is better than most Better than most. Better than most. Better than most.