No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 776: 2023 Holiday Medley

Episode Date: December 23, 2023

Our annual holiday tradition returns with a medley of clips from our 2023 podcasts. Thanks for supporting what we do at No Laying Up, and we hope you enjoy reliving some of our favorite moments from the past year. Guests featured on this episode include: Jon Rahm, Lee Trevino, Scottie Scheffler, Jordan Spieth, Max Homa, Will Zalatoris, Steph Curry, Lilia Vu, Steph Curry, Padraig Harrington, Hunter Mahan and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang-Up podcast. Sully here, our traditional holiday, medley episode end of year recap looking back at a bunch of our interviews from the year. This is almost entirely live free.

I believe it might even be technically live free first, first interview. We'll get to that in a second. But not of our recap stuff, not of the distant stuff. It's just straight interviews that we've done in the past year featuring John Rom, Smiley Kaufman, Trevor M.O. Men, you know, Patrick Harrington. There's a lot to get to. I'll get to all of them here individually. But this is the one time a year we do ask people, if you have a friend that maybe is an Indypodcaster who doesn't listen to the show, this is always a great episode to share with somebody. If you're not into this,

then you're probably not into the end of the podcast, which is also totally fine, but also is a chance for, hey, if you didn't listen to every episode this year, one, we don't blame you, we put out a lot this year, and two, hopefully this is a reminder to maybe go back and listen to one, you already listened to,

to hear it again, or one that maybe you skipped that you hear something intriguing and will make you want to listen to the rest of it. So other requests, of course, this time of year, if you go in and rate and review our show and iTunes or Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts, it helps us greatly. And we try to only ask for that once a year. So no ads in this one. This is straight up a labor of love. And we greatly appreciate all the feedback we always get on this episode. First clip is somewhat

appropriate in light of recent news. It was our first big player interview of 2023 episode 634 with John Rom who at the time was still 100% committed to the PGA tour. This clip runs probably about five minutes and there's some statements in here that will make his, of course, eventual decision to join live seem very curious. In addition to numerous other public statements that ROM has made since live emerged. But again, we'll keep the live tour, you know, PGA tour golf ball rollback discussion to an absolute minimum for the rest of the pod. But here's John Rom from back in mid January. And I've heard a lot of players refer to reconciliation, whatever that looks like, you know, come to some kind of agreement, some kind of, you know, what that looks like.

I've always struggled to picture that. I think I'm, you know, potential reconciliation. I'm starting to crystallize a little bit of how it could work. But in your mind, what is a, what is an idea of how the two can coexist and kind of stop the, the back and forth? I have a small thought on it, but I'm not sure if it would work. But the idea is, if the PJ tours working towards changing, right, this year the fall, serious events won't count for the FedExCop points, right? If we ever get to a point where PJ tour tournaments is like before 2007 is January 1st to last week of August when the tour championship is done, no more official PJ tour events after that.

You could get to a situation where if live only has 10 to 14 events, they could have those 10 to 14 events in September through December and never coincide with any other PGA Tour event again. Because what they're doing right now is obviously putting out their tournaments against the weakest PGA Tour tournaments and acting like they're better. Like they might be better product. Well, put it up against Reff, put it up against the player, see who wins, right? That's my point of view on that. So if they don't get in again on a petty battle of who's better or who's not, you could essentially end up in that situation. Let them take the fall, we take the rest of the year, there you go, done.

Kind of like the summer league ambassador ball, right? You have it in summer and be able to really care. You can't really do it in a lot of sports, but you can do it in golf, right? Now with that said, that would put the European Tour in a difficult position, but that's the only solution I see right now. Because I don't see a way where you're going to have players bouncing back and forth to like, oh, we're finishing the two championship to more on part of

the, you know, to more on part of the high flyers and playing on the where. So that's to clarify that you don't see, you're not saying play in the fall. So PGA tour players can also go play and live in the fall. Right. No. God, no. I think you should make a choice. Right. I know we're in dependent contractors, man. Plus, if you want to play, go ahead. We're playing 20 events, but it's another 14, 35, 34 tournaments a year.

That would be any of your playing in Radica. That would be 35. That's a lot of tournaments to play, especially going around the world in the fall. So I don't think anybody would choose to do that. But I don't think any, like, I don't think the PGA tour would go for that either. They're not going to allow somebody to sign a hundred million out of deal with them to then also be that will dip it on the PGA tour.

I don't think they would. And do you agree with that philosophy as a PGA tour player and as a professional golfer? I mean, I think a lot of the live players have made the case and have said we should be able to double dip. We should be able to do both of those things. For listeners sake, can you explain to their whether or not you agree with that and why that might be the case? Since it's not a possibility of having given him much thought, I really haven't. I think a lot of this again gets into the independent contractor definition, right? But when you sign with a PJ tour, you sign,

I think out of the word, the word that I'm gonna say, I don't know legal words, okay? But you sign some type of exclusivity deal, right? They own the right to your image. That's probably the first problem, right? The first problem you have there, and again, you need permission from the PGA to go play in other tours, which it granted in the past. They just chose not to do it

with lip, which is fully in the right at least. So I don't know, I don't necessarily think you should be able to do both. I'm not just anybody. So free go to lip, take the money, the whatever you want. I'm not going to judge if that's your choice. But double dip in and doing both seems Yeah, it's just to me that's not seem like it's the right thing to do Okay, we can I can disagree with players on it. They can think whatever they want. I'm fine with it I just don't think you should be doing both right. I don't know I said right now. I don't see a possibility of that happening and I just Right now and think you'll be the right thing to do in the future

We don't know how things are gonna shape up, but it doesn't seem like a possibility either. That's what any chance I get to connect the dots of you've signed away your image, right? But the PJ tour has gone and sold that to a lot of different sponsors and television partners to say, here's what John Rom is worth. And also he just won this tournament. And here is $2.7 million, John Rom for us putting this tournament together for you and marketing this and selling this. And it's also not forget, which I think a lot of people forget. You get in those contracts by live because of the platform that PJ tours allowed you to play at 100% period. Period.

So you owe, obviously your talent stays you far far, but to an extent, you owe that platform to the PGA tour. So to still use that platform to stay relevant and make more money in the other place, just doesn't seem right. And that's where you're going. And just wait till the other platform gets bigger and your worth is whatever it is. That's right. I mean, I wouldn't be known anywhere if I was in the PGA tour.

Very simple. Next up from the pro max Homa for the first of two times in this medley episode. This clip was from late January when Max offered up some revealing comments on the introduction of a sports psychologist to his team, adjusting to a changing golf swing as he's aged. And he's just another very open and honest conversation with Max, who's of course always our favorite guest. Episode 637, John Maxwell, HOMA. You said something about techniques you're working on for under pressure.

I literally had that on my list to talk to you about in terms of how you handle that, how you practice that, how do you possibly prepare for that? I closed my mind, watching you guys hit shots with all the people around that mean, the shots that mean so much. What are you doing there? And how have you seen that be effective? See what's odd is like the Sundays and I guess the tip of your brain, stressful, you know,

high pressure shots, those are not the ones that give me trouble. It's the lead up to a Thursday of a big event or Friday or whatever that may be. So like for how my brain kind of has worked is if I get myself in a contention Saturday, Sunday, I know I'm playing well, so it's fun. Like it's a joy. Like I know it's more of a hey I'm gonna go show off type thing. I think that's why I've been successful, in the hunt and in these events. I've played quite well in the final groups. I've closed out tournaments, and I think that's just the way I operate.

I need to see, I need validation. And Joe had brought it up at Congri on the 17th hole on Sunday, right before we were about to take a big break. And he said, hey, you know, I got I have someone I want to bring up, you know, I think it will help you I think you should talk to a sports psychologist. I have tried that before way in the past didn't like it So he's like just try it. He goes I really think it'll help you He goes and he did it perfectly and the reason I bring up a hole was on

It's because I think it was a moment. it will be a momentous part of my journey in this game and a momentous moment in a way because I've never really worked on my mental game the way he was talking about it. He said, I'm not telling you this because I think you're broken. I'm telling you this because I think it could boost us up real high in this game of golf. And I don't know why, but when he presented to me like that, it didn't feel like, sometimes I think in a weird way, as much as I'm very pro people seeing therapists

and speaking to psychologists, when someone suggests that you're like, wait, I've been better. Like you get defensive. And the way he put it was like, I'm just like kind of not tapping into a big facet of the game. I think skill wise,

talent wise, a lot of guys on tour, my self included, like we've been working at this for so long. There's only so much incrementally I can get better at in this game, truly. And there's a ton you can do in other areas. Some people struggle on Sundays, some people struggle like me on Thursday, some people struggle on Saturday, So everyone's got their thing. So I started talking to somebody. We talk about life and all this stuff,

but I have like an understanding of where I get off and how I practice it. I practice it at home. You know, when I'm, when I have a shot, I'm a lot more like internal when I'm, and I guess aware when I'm playing like a fun round at home. If I start to have a feeling, I don't like, just say, oh, it doesn't matter. It's a Tuesday. I'm playing like a fun round at home. If I start to have a feeling, I don't like, just say,

oh, it doesn't matter, it's a Tuesday, I'm like, all right, let's pretend this is a golf tournament. You're feeling this already, and you might feel this, you're going to feel this again at Torrey Pine. So tap into it, and then it's like, okay, well, why do you feel this way? Do you think, and then like break it down,

and then like, okay, so how are you gonna go about, you know, overcoming that feeling and like practicing that way? And it was fun to play the centric, because it was the first event. Well, I guess the hero was the first event, but the hero was early on when I was talking to the sports psychologist and it was also coming off

like four weeks post baby and I hadn't really been practicing a lot. So I was trying to be, it was almost a learning experience for both of us, because I felt very small and all the bad things came up because I didn't play well but it was a lot of it was, you know, just not playing well. So it was fun to go to the century and be like, I'm gonna put these things to work, I'm gonna practice these things and I saw it in a crazy amount, you know, Thursday, Friday for me, I, on the leaderboard didn't play very well. I was in 26, 27 place, but I would usually turn that into 35th by, it's not an attitude like moping around. It would have been just me trying to get a hero shot or me feeling insecure. And instead, I was like,

you're playing great balls, not going in the whole maximize these two days and then all of a sudden Saturday, I got there and blackout and all of a sudden, you know, I wasn't in the golf term, but I was in the hunt for a great finish. So that was fun, just seeing stuff like that. So it was fun to practice that in a tournament, but that's how I practice at home is when I have a feeling I try not to just like shrug it off like I normally would

because, you know, any day at home on a Tuesday, you hit a bad shot and it's so easy to just be like, well, this doesn't matter. Because it doesn't, to the grand scheme of things, but it's hard to practice mental stuff. So you've got to take those chances, or take those opportunities when they come. And I was talking to her earlier this week,

and I was saying, hey, this feels weird right now, and I feel like I'm getting ahead of myself, oh, what if this happens at Tori, this, that, or whatever. And she goes, this is good. Go out, because I was saying, hey, this feels weird right now, and I feel like I'm getting ahead of myself. Oh, what if this happens at Tori, this, that, or whatever? And she goes, this is good. Go out, because I was playing that afternoon. She's like, when you go play this afternoon, practice that. Like, practice how you would want to be when you play Wednesday at Tori Pines.

And I was like, oh, cool. And I went out and I saw an improvement. And I guess, you know, that's how I've been trying to do it. Again, it's early on, but I've enjoyed this kind of learning experience. I told her earlier, I was like, the reason I struggle with speaking with people, speaking to people about this is I've never seen how a mental boost is tangible

because it feels so intangible. And she said, my goal for you by the end of this is that you're gonna realize that it is tangible, obviously, in a figurative sense. And I felt that a lot at century. So it's just cool, wherever this goes, is kind of wherever it goes. But noticing little things in tournaments is really fun.

And that was the first one I got to really see an improvement and see a result because of it. Well, it's interesting about the mental side is for a long time I always thought it meant, like, oh, just be positive, just be super positive. Like, have a great attitude. That's all it means. Whereas, it is a lot more complicated than that.

And it takes repetition, and it takes maintenance. It's not something that you just like learn once, and you have it forever. It, you know, you're gonna go through ups and downs of all that. I have kind of a weird question. Sometimes like, if I'm playing decent golf, and I go to the course the next day,

I still have a question of whether or not it's still there, right? If you take like three days off of playing golf, is there ever a doubt that it's still there for you? I don't know how to ask that question other than like, if you're, you know, you just had a baby, you're taking some time away from golf. And when you go pick those clubs back up, what is that process like of figuring out whether or not you still have it? Is that a thing at all at your level? It is every single day of my life. Okay, that makes you feel it's like a tad better. When I land in Maron, San Diego, and I drive over to TPI, and I hit my first flush wedge, I will have some form of a sigh of relief.

Okay. Every day, it's every day during a week of a tournament. But I think that's kind of maturing in the game as a professional, is realizing that, hey, you know, I had a weird putting day on Monday, that does not mean I will have a weird putting day on Tuesday. And if it happens to get on Tuesday,

that does not mean that is now my new normal. It's not broken. There's a way to fix it. And it will probably, you're probably closer to it than you think. A lot of that is just experience. Anytime I'd have something off, especially early in my career when I was playing poorly, it would be like a whole rebuild

instead of realizing, man, you might be one little tweak away or one feeling away from it being back as good as it could possibly be. So, like you said, though, it takes maintenance. Like I need to remind myself that it's not like this thing is, it's natural. But yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us feel that way. And I think a lot of us go through that, like when I hear stories about how Rory won't touch a club for four weeks, I like start sweating. But that's like a form of confidence, you know, to me. And that's a good

thing. But part of, part of it, I don't mind for myself because that constant fear gets me up in the morning every day to go practice. And that's part of why I'm good. But it's blending the two. It's like having a conference, you know, you can feel funny and go out and still play great. It's big, but it's also there's some form of the success

and confidence of being able to take a day or two off or have light days and not think that that is why you won't be successful in a week or a month or a year. When we played with Bethan J.C. at Kapalua, Jordan said something that was really interesting about how it was something along the lines of, I'll never swing the club like I did in 2015 again because my body has changed like it's impossible for me to swing the club in the same way like when I turn when I have a full rotation that's a different feel in 2023 that is in 2015 and that kind of blew my mind. I just never really thought of it that way. It's basically like he had

this incredible run of golf. He fell off a little bit and is now trying to find his way back. And I'm asking this through the lens of, you've gone through similar ups and downs. When you were in your down periods, were you trying to find your old swing and did you end up back at your old swing or were you trying to find new ways to elevate your game? You know what I mean?

And your relationship with a swing changing and a field changing and a field changing and not being able to get it back. So I do you want it back? Do you want a new feel? I'm curious your relationship through all of that with your golf swing. Yeah, that's a great question because a little bit of yes and a little bit of no. We were searching for, I think we were searching for the feeling. I've heard Jordan talk about this on your podcast, your guys podcast, maybe a year or two ago, you're searching for the feeling. I've heard Jordan talk about this on your podcast maybe a year or two ago. You're searching for this feeling by doing new moves, I guess. And then that's kind of where you're never, not never.

You probably won't find that. So, Jordan's was different. He was playing poorly, but I don't think that he didn't lost it, but his golf team was changing a lot. And when your body changes, obviously, that is a big thing. I mean, we do it right now. Mark and I have these swings from Houston, like two years ago, maybe two years ago, that are my favorite golf teams I ever made. And it worked. It was like that for a couple weeks

else hitting the ball really far and I was driving the hell out of it. And sometimes I'll be looking at it and we'll be dissecting it. Like what is different this that and like whatever. And then finally, we'll always land on men. Like maybe we need to remeasure how my shoulder's moving or my elbows moving or whatever.

Because it's like maybe that's just like not in the cards right now. And that doesn't mean it's bad. Like I have better range of motion now than I did then. And he goes, maybe you just had like the perfect level of stiffness, immobility then. And you're like, yeah, you know, that's a good point. And that's where I lean on Mark a lot. He's been good about that, you know, everything starts with like how you're moving.

And do you move back, you know, towards fixing your golf swing or whatever, improving your golf swing after that. But sometimes we all get caught up in it. Like I just want to swing it like this again. Do you move back, you know, towards fixing your golf swing or whatever, improving your golf swing after that? But sometimes we all get caught up in it. Like I just want to swing it like this again. It it. I guess Tiger would be the perfect person to learn that from is like as he changed his golf swing. It was almost always around his body. And what wasn't working so great. And he's made a career out of each one of those golf swings. So you can make it work, but you need to be in tune with what isn't working. And it's actually helped me on days where I've been stiffer because it's cold or something. I'm aware of, okay, I struggle with side bend

and like staying in my posture. So I know I have to like overdo that because I'm not gonna move as well. My hips aren't gonna be as like lubed up. So it's good to be aware of that because now I know, hey, like overdo that because I'm not going to move as well. My hips aren't going to be as like lubed up So it's good to be aware of that because now I know hey if I start like flipping at it or it feels funky I'm just I'm limited somewhere, you know, because of the weather or just because of myself So like little things like that do change and it's funny Jordan talks about that because his golf swing does look very different Right now that it did in 2015 Positions are important.

They're not the end of the world. And he's bringing the club down in a very good position. So it doesn't like matter as long as you get it in that slot. But chasing something that you can't attain waste a lot of time. Next up is episode 639.

This was interesting for a lot of different reasons as we caught up with Will Zalatoris to talk through his recovery from back surgery and of course questions about his, you know, unique putting motion from close range, but here's Will's Allataurus episode 639. What I'm most looking forward to talking with you about, people are most looking forward to hear the etsyron. I need an explanation in your words of your close range putting stroke. I need to understand the strategy. how we got to this

and yeah, how do we get here? No, I just, whenever Josh and I have tried to work on too much, I've always had a habit of taking it inside. And so playing in the win that day and trying to fight myself a little bit, you know, it is what it is. is. Here's the thing though, is statistically, I need to be better from four to eight, nine feet. I'm not winning any beauty contest, but like 35th best butter on tour, so this year. I don't want to talk about here.

Yes. Yeah, no. So I mean, do I need to get better? Is it sexy? Yeah, I need to get better. Yeah, it's not the best. But when it feels good, I will take on anybody in the world no matter what range does it matter. But, you know, I'm not afraid to go out and hit a few puts off the toe every now and again

and and be a little uncommitted to what I'm doing. But, you know, then again, it's like, I have one out here. I do have a lot of top 10s. Like statistically, it's not as bad as it actually looks, which I know is hard to believe for some people. I do have a lot of top 10s. Like statistically, it's not as bad as it actually looks, which I know is hard to believe for some people. I don't know. I love getting ripped for it. But at the end of the day, like I said, I'll take anybody on any time. Like I need to get better.

I need to get better of, you know, taking them more outside. And I've been, I've just done this for the last, I don't know, forever, it seems like. But the beauty of it is, is it's like if that's the one thing people are going to ridicule me for last, I don't know, forever, it seems like, but the beauty of it is, it's like, if that's the one thing people are going to ridicule me for, is essentially, you know, maybe missing a free-through-over now again, I'm happy with where I'm at. So I'll keep working on what I'm doing. Next three clips are all former pros turn broadcasters starting with Colt Nost, episode 641. He's got a unique backstory, you know, surrounding his amateur career,

a fateful decision to turn down and invite to the masters. When did pro golf enter the picture for you? I mean, when you showed up at SMU, it doesn't sound like you thought that was where your career was, your path was headed. Not freshmen. Not even close. I mean, I didn't pick up a golf club to us, 13 years old.

Seriously? And I grew up, yeah, in a small country town called Pilot Point, Texas, doesn't have a golf course. 5,000 people in the whole town. I mean, 89 people in my high school class. Uh, I joke and say 88. Um, we're still there. I was the only one that got out.

But, you know, going to SMU was so lucky. I got an email from the coach very late. Uh, I got two recruiting, uh, I scheduled to recruiting trips because of my golf coach Randy Smith who works with Scotty Schiffler. He is like a dad to me. I've known him forever. He talked teams into looking at me, got a random look from SMU went down, took a visit, Randy was 10 minutes down the road. I was like, you know what, this is perfect. If I want to do this, like this is where I should be, because then I can see Randy at all times. First qualifying round

I shoot 77. And I'm like, holy shit, I am so far in over my head, like this isn't, this isn't good. And each day got better, better, better, ended up making the first tournament, finished top 10, never missed tournament my entire career. But it still wasn't until probably my junior year in college and I thought I could play professional golf. When I finally started to win a few times,

then my senior year, obviously everything clicked. I won quite a few times, played in the Byron Nelson when I was in college and was in contention going into the weekend. But it was a lot later than most, I would say. And he wins in that amateur part. There were a special note. Yeah. I mean, obviously that, no, that whole summer, I mean, starting at the Byron Nelson, just every playing in a PGA tour event, going out on the summer, trying to make the Walker Cup team played great every single week. I don't think I finished outside the top 10 the entire summer Ernie Keeney trip Keeney and and Hank and Kelly's dad Told me at the start of the summer. I was gonna win the USA and I was just like

I'm not even in the USA I hope so I hope you're right But you know, he said Olympic clubs perfect for me ended up winning the Publinks the best part about winning the Publinks Not just getting the Masters invite, but I didn't have to go qualify for the USAM. And those 36 whole qualifiers got to Olympic Club, loved it, and it was just one of those dream weeks. So you win the USAM, and I don't remember this part of it, I guess, but you forfeit your major exemptions to turn professional.

You never got to play in the Masters by my collection. Any regret in that? Why did you turn pro when you did? Yeah, you know, at the time there was no regrets. I mean, when I was playing professional golf, I was on the PGA tour. Everything was great. And I thought I would get there eventually. For me, I mean, I look at it this, I mean, my stock was never higher. I was an everyone I am in the world. I was coming off a win at the, at the AM, the pub links went undefeated at the Walker cup.

I got thrown money that, you know, to how family it wasn't poor, they weren't rich. I mean, we were fine, but it was still, it was a big difference for me between staying amateur and turning pro. Like my mom had taken care of me my entire life. It was time for me to pay her back a little bit. And so I got starts in the fall,

that year I played three PGHs, where it meant that fall was like, man, the way I'm playing right now, I mean, I can get even contention and possibly win and be there anyway. So it was a hard decision. There's no doubt. I mean, as a kid, I mean, the one tournament

you really remember every single year is the Masters. And, you know, yeah, it hurt that I never played. There's no doubt. Now that I go there every year for CBS, it's awesome. Hoping one day to be on the main broadcast. We'll see what happens with that. But I'll never forget 2021 was the first time I ever stepped on property, and it was limited patrons.

And on Monday, I just went out and walked the grounds by myself, walked all 18, it was 1 through 18, and it was cool. And that's probably the first time it really hit me like hard that I was like, damn, I can't believe I never played in this. Smiley Kaufman joined us for episode 645, it struggles with his own game, you know,

I've been well documented, but this clip from our review was enlightening just to see how much a professional can have the same mental hurdles in golf as the rest of us. I'll tell you this. So for about a year, maybe a year and a half, I wouldn't even keep score when I went and played at home. I just wouldn't even keep score because I just didn't want to have a result attached to golf.

I just wanted golf to be fun again. And I think once I realized like, oh goodness, I finally stepped away from the game for a bit. I'm like, it's a crazy how quickly I started enjoying golf again. And just not had, I just wouldn't think about anything over the ball. I knew what I was working on and I didn't ever worry about it. It's like I just didn't attach an emotion to a bad shot. And I was doing that for so long that and most listeners probably are like, good nodding their head like, guy, yeah, that's me.

But yeah, that's, it happens to everybody. And not just amateurs, it happens to pros. And it can be a very fleeting game. And we've seen it time and time again. Did you ever, by any chance, just came to mind. Have any, did you ever read about or learn about or ever talk to Ian Baker Finch at all about how some of his struggles or his reaction to, you know, kind of going down about where it's by

all. You know, you know, I didn't. I wasn't very open when I was during, when I wasn't playing well. I was hardly open enough. Like, I would barely open up to my wife about just what I was going through. You know, I was probably, I just felt like a shell of myself. And my personality's very outgoing extrovert. And I felt so introverted.

And I felt so like, monkey on my back when I went to the golf course, just like, just this like anxiety that I've never had in my entire life. And it bled into performance anxiety. And I think I just didn't I didn't know even know what to if I was going to call you in Baker Finch, I wouldn't even know what to say at that time. It's like, because all you're looking for is a band-aid to make you feel better. But as soon as that gun goes off and you gotta get in the first tea, it doesn't matter what you and Baker Finch has been through. You're going to still have to get that ball in the fairway.

And that was the way I looked at it. Could I have gotten maybe a little bit of ice from guys? Yes. But at the time, it just didn't seem like the right thing to do. Next up, CBS lead analyst Trevor Annellman on how they've tried to innovate and freshen up with was decidedly a stale network broadcast,

which I believe we documented here many, many years ago, and his approach to building trust and meaningful relationships with the pros he's tasked with analyzing weekend and week out. I'm not gonna sit here and take all the credit for this. I'm not, please don't let me do that Trevor, please don't say that. I don't want any credit for any of this, okay, please.

But gosh, it seems like things have evolved at CBS over recent months and years. What do you kind of just, can you take me inside the room, meeting wise, schedule wise, planning wise for, it seemed like you guys got together the off season and decided things were going to be done a little bit differently in golf television coverage. And you guys came out absolutely banging this year. What can you tell us about kind of the evolution of golf coverage on CBS as part? What can you tell us about kind of the evolution of golf coverage on CBS's part?

Well, I sure has been a lot of fun. You know, whether I'm the right person or not to be able to speak about the evolution, I'm probably not because I've only been working for CBS for three or four years and I've only been in this lead analyst role for the West Coast swing. So I'm the rookie on the team, really. And so I'm not really in the best position to be able to speak on the changes over the last decade or so. But I can talk about now and what is going on now. And what happened in the off season is we have great leadership.

There's no doubt about it. We have a fantastic leadership from a standpoint of our lead producer, Celeste Shai. And our director, Steve Milton, these are people that love the game. Number one, first and foremost, you talk about Celeste, he's a great player and has been throughout his life anyway. So he understands

the game. And then, you know, we have tremendous bosses back in New York that give us, give these people, the producer and director, the leeway and the freedom to be able to try some things out to be able to try some things out and figure out what works best for CBS sports. And so it has been a tremendous amount of fun for me. Like I thoroughly enjoyed the West Coast. Was I extremely nervous? Absolutely. Do I have a keen understanding of how great of a position I'm in as lead analyst as CBS? 100% is actually deep in the hand for

the guys that have been able to sit in that chair and have that voice. So I'm very well aware of the magnitude of that. But you know, we love what we do. We have a great team top to bottom in front of the camera behind the camera, everybody in the compound hundreds of people that come to work pumped up, ready to go, competitive, trying to put the best product possible out there. And so we have numerous group chats of people that are watching coverage, weekend and week out,

talking about things they like, things they don't like, adjustments that could be made, and we're just always trying to get better. And we're always listening to everybody's opinions, whether it be you guys at no laying up or other people, other fans that don't listen to podcasts that only tune in for golf from three to six on the weekends That I've no clue what you guys are talking about and they've been watching golf for 50 years just one way happy to do it And so you know, you try and take an opinion from the full spectrum and and

Work within that framework to just keep better getting better and better, but I am like loving my job. And I am extremely thankful to be in this position, to be sitting next to Jim Nath, Nance who I think is not only a legend of a man, but a legendary broadcaster. And sheesh, I just hope I can find a way to keep everybody fooled for the next 20 years so I could stay in that seat That that is my goal that really is well I will say a lot of your peers speak very very highly of your work ethic that's gone into it And we can we can see it from communications. We've had with you and then you're kind of seeking feedback And you want to you obviously take you take that role very seriously last question I have for you is you guys have kind of

You obviously take that role very seriously. Last question I have for you is you guys have kind of innovated and invented this thing, the walk and talk, right, the CBS stroll or whatever you guys want to call it in terms of interviewing players as they play a whole. Do you get a sense of, again, this was a takeaway I've had from talking to a lot of these guys is they, the light bulb has at least gone off to some extent in terms of the the role they need to play in the entertainment product of golf and wanting to entertain golf fans. Do you get a sense of that kind of urgency

or that kind of willingness from these players is are people lining up now to go do that walk and talk and things like that? And what are other ways you can potentially see that innovating in the weeks and months and years? Yeah, I think it's been a great addition. The technology is fantastic. You know, at times, you know, if wind comes up,

you can hear the wind and stuff like that. But, you know, like I said, there's a lot of people back in the compound that are working on ways to get even better. But it's been a tremendous success. I don't think there's urgency amongst the players. I wouldn't have used that word, but there's absolutely

willingness to be able to dabble in it, to talk about it, to try and understand it. I think the players are slowly but surely starting to understand that, hey, if you have the opportunity to get 10 to 15 minutes of just you on CBS network between three and six on the weekend, which is basically like prime time coverage. It is beyond valuable. I mean, it is something that is so incredible for you and your brand and your partners to where you can just allow people in and enough to where they can get to know you and your brand and your partners to where you can just allow people in enough to where they can get to know you and you can make fans and you can keep everybody happy so to speak. For me the way I've gone about it is you know you

referenced the homework earlier and the preparation you know I'm a range rat every moment that I can I'm down on the driving range at the preparation. I'm a range rat every moment that I can. I'm down on the driving range at the tournament. I'm at the putting green. I'm trying to gather as much information from players, caddies, coaches, agents, all sorts of people to just try and be able to add a layer or two during the broadcast if the moment presents itself. And I think as I've been able to add a layer or two during the broadcast

if the moment presents itself. And I think as I've been able to get out there, look the player still know me from most of them that I've competed with not that long ago, 2018, 2019. And so with my role as the international team captain, a lot of guys got to know me better and better. And now spending so much time out at the golf course on the range, on the putting green, when you do that, players and caddies start to get more comfortable with you. And they

start to understand why you're there. They start to trust you. And at the end of the day, what I keep saying to them and communicating to them is this, look, we can both acknowledge that I'm going to be on TV from 3 to 6 every Saturday and Sunday when CBS does a tournament. And if you're playing well, you're going to be on. So if that's the case, we have two options. You can either give me some information that I can talk about regarding you. Or if you don't, I need to at some point say something. So if you don't give me anything, that means I have to make it up. I have to guess.

So for me to make it up, there's a couple things going on. I've been watching you on the range. I've noticed that you've missed 60% of your drivers that you hit to the left. I'm going to have to come up with a reason why. What are you doing with your swing? Have you changed your routine? Have you changed your driver's shot? Have you changed your driver's head?

Have you changed your coach? And so if you don't give me some information, I'm going to have to dive in and figure something out. Because if Jim Nance turns to me and says, gee Trevor, he's missed three T-shirts to the left. Why is that? I need an answer. And, you know, as I've started to build up more and more trust

with these players, they're opening themselves up more to it, understanding that I am not in that position to hang them out to dry. I'm always going to tell the truth, but I'm not looking to be vindictive or personal in any way. I'm just calling it as I see it. And I need to do that because if I don't do that, I sure as heck know that you guys are gonna call me out. And I know that there's gonna be people at home that are gonna call me out.

So it's just the way it is. Everybody needs to work together in order to put the best possible product every weekend. Like I said, please don't give me credit. I don't need that Trevor, but I appreciate that so much. 2023 marks an increased commitment from us at NLU to our coverage of the women's game with more interview pods, more dedicated episodes to the LPGA tour with Big Randy and Cody spearheading our coverage.

We got a couple clips from our interview pods up next. First Danielle Kang. She joined us in April to talk about her road back from injury, but it was this clip about her work with Bich Harmon that we wanted to relive. I'm ready to nerd out on some golf swing stuff and other lessons you've learned with him. There's a great golf digest video I watched today of you guys talking wedges here. And you talked about how he helped you flight it lower with wedges. How did you do that? What did you learn from him on how to flight wedges lower? He just told me to hit it lower.

All right, but that's super helpful. Thank you very much for that. Butch is, butch is a method of teaching has his ways. And he said to me that there is a reason to his madness. And I respect that to And I respect that tremendously. I don't know what he does half the time, but then it results into how he's one of the results to be. He has helped me put my wedges.

He's helped me very much in control around the greens. And I think that that was very important from helping me score better on part five and things. And he's helped me be able to manage my own swing without needing him all the time. And I think that that's important for him. That was one of his goals and priorities for me to learn is so that I self-function because he doesn't travel. And he's in Vegas and he wants me to learn is so that I self function because he got in

trouble and you know he's in Vegas and he wants me to know my swing more than anybody else thus so that I know how to fix it on the golf course or I know how to go down the checklist and see what and be realistic on what how the shots came out on what it could have been and what it should have been. So I think that's something that I really learned from him and I'll be thankful for that. Yeah, you can't walk off the golf course after every bad round and be demanding that the coach help you fix it, right?

You gotta be some internal government checks in there. But what was your first wedge lesson like with Bush Harman? My first wedge lesson actually, that was the first lesson I ever had with him. I wasn't hitting my wedge as well, so I could either hit it the yardage and left and right or at the pin long and short. I didn't have the combo. And then so he told me to shallow out my swing. And I said, I don't know what shallow means. And then he tossed the club and just walked off. and he tossed the club and just walked off. So what does he came back? What does it mean? He came back.

He told me to play and then he came back and say, can you hit a low draw? And I said, I can't. And then I was hitting this low draw. And I said, um, why didn't you just say that? He said, we're not going to go there. So that was my first watch lesson. So I'm guessing shallow and draw has same similarity. That's what I was learning back then.

And then hitting a low draw helps the control the ball to better around the greens. There you go. Okay. So do you do like for like an 80 yard wedge shot now, do you are you trying to hit like a low draw or how do you now hit it low? I mean, that really depends on the why.

So I mentioned previously that I do work with Drew Stuckel as well. So that's my coach. And he he's a bit more hands-on with me. And with him with working with him, my angle of attack has decreased by multiple degrees. So my max wedge that I used to hit my 58 what my my max wedge that I used to hit, my 58, what, my, sorry, max number that I used to hit with my 58 degrees was 70 yards. That was my max ever, like 67 yards, 70 yards. But after working on certain things, now it flies 83. So when I have, now I have more to play with because of angle of attacking lower, now the

wedge, I can fly it a bit better. It flies further, spins better. So now I can play around with how I'm going to hit that. Would you ask me 80 or what shot? I could take a 54 degree, open the phase and fly it down, pitch it, and spin one stop it. I could hit a 58 degree, leave the face square, and hit a higher one and spin one stop it or I could hit a 58 degree leave the face square and hit a higher one and spin it or open the face and hit it 85 yards and spin it back like those

are the things that I can play around with because of the ball speed. That's why that PG tour throw game is so unbelievable. I mean this sounds this sounds one like Phil talking about wedges or that Dennis Rodman where that jiffries, you know throwing the ball around I tip it this way. I go this way. I do this. I love it It's awesome when I talk yeah because it's imagination and you can do whatever you want with it But you have to have the technique to get there But how do you change your angle of attack? Like what does that mean? I know what steep is and I know what shallow is but what's the process in doing it?

It's you know, so what him and I've worked on for the past few months is to be able to, because I'm very under. Everyone knows that I'm a very wide swing, super long and wide, and then I use a lot of my body to go through. And I wanted to time it a bit less, because timing goes off when there's other factors into play, whether it's wind, whether it's rain, whether it's pressure, tension, down the stretch, whatever it may be, you can't time things as well as you want to when other factors are in place. So I wanted to get rid

of that a bit more and Drew has worked with me on how to time it less so that I flip it a bit less. Like, I'm less at the ball flipping and manipulating it, which means it's going to go where my body goes and my club is kind of dragging with it and at that point, the club staying the way it's supposed to stay has decreased the loft a little bit. But the ball goes higher, because golf is a game of opposite, right? If you have a better angle of attack, the ball will spin off the face a bit more, the whole technology behind the R&D, and then it just goes, yeah.

So it's a bit better. Is this all stuff you've learned in the last few years, or is where was your knowledge on this like five years ago, would you say? I'm not that great, no. I mean, I'm a slow learner on the golf course. I, golf is one of the worst sports in the world or game in the world is because you learn the same, you make the same mistake

every day. It drives you mental, but you have to learn and you have to figure out why it happened, how it happened, and how to not make it happen, but it's how to decrease the chance of happening it again. Happening again. So, or giving yourself the best opportunity to hit the best shot. I think creating that percentage to be a bit higher, making that percentage to be a bit higher is my ultimate goal. And I think having a better angle of a top

will have a better spin, which will have better results, which will have better dispersion and like ball speed, etc, etc. It's like the whole snowball, you know. Next, a fantastic, one of the more underrated episodes of the year, if I may say, Lili Avou, who would end the year as the number one player in the world after two major championship wins this past year, we had her in the pod at episode 679 back in May. She was fresh off the first of those major wins at the Chevron. The tournament was recently relocated

to the Woodlands, Texas area, but there's still the tradition of the tournament when they're jumping into the pond to uphold. What'd you tell your mom after the playoff? Chevron. I think she was just crying. I, I wanted her to jump with me, but she was busy looking for my dad.

And I, it's just like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well played, Mom, well played. I know. What was the thought process? Obviously everybody made a big deal about the jump and like we're gonna continue to this tradition and everything and then you kind of look at the pond

and you're like, it looks kind of greenish brown out there. They're talking about alligators. Like obviously you had a very, very good jump. Cady, phenomenal. Yeah, he's just good jump. Cady phenomenal. Yeah, he's just a star. Probably like one. He's just goaded. It was incredible his performance on it,

but you know is it something that obviously like, yeah, you probably walked by and like a practice round and you're like, I could probably do that. Like that's fine. That's what we did. We were playing the practice round and we looked at each other and we're like, if we win, are we gonna jump?

We both said yes. And then it was time and I was like, it looked so musty and I saw Snake on 17, the previous hole, okay. And then we were in the, we were waiting in the scoring tent before the playoff and one of the LPGA media girls asked me, are you gonna jump just so we can like be ready? And then I said, yeah, we're gonna jump, right? And then I turned a call and I asked me, are you gonna jump just so we can like be ready?

And then I said, yeah, we're gonna jump, right? And then I turn a call and I'm like, are we gonna jump? He's like, it's cold, but yeah. And I'm like, don't give us that attitude. Like, we're gonna do it if we win. What's it like waiting in the media tent or like, were you watching the golf? Do you like to watch the golf in that situation or is it like, hey, just kind of tell me what's going on and tell me when I need to like go warm up maybe on the range? Well, I really didn't know what was happening.

I didn't know there was like a TV right in front of my face. I didn't see it. To be honest, I was just like, I just need to be here. They told me to stay in the tent. Like I can't go anywhere because I wanted to go to the bathroom. Couldn't go to the bathroom. Oh, no. And then all of a sudden, like the scores are changing.

And then Cole just says, like, hey, you want to go warm up when she hits her T-Shot in 17. I said, yeah. And then just went from there. My physio, she was actually driving to Dallas on her way to Dallas. And then I birdied 17. So she turned around.

I mean, she was only 30 minutes out, but she turned around, came back. My back was killing me the final round at Chevron. So, went to the range and before I started warming up, she just worked on my back a little bit. Thank God. I don't know. It was so cold on the playoff hole, so I definitely needed that for my back.

And then, just started warming up. I didn't know what was happening. I was just going through like some of my routine and just trying to pick the pins as fairways on the range as you usually do. And then yeah, I think once we started putting, I asked my physio and my caddy, I'm like, what, what are the scores? And they were like, oh, she bogeys, bogeyed 17, and then she birdied 18. So there's gonna be a playoff. So we just got in the cart and then went back to 18.

Could you feel like the momentum still on your side? I think I'm not sure what really went to my head. I think I just still was in that mindset like you still haven't won. Like you just need to be ready for a playoff. If you lose, yeah. If you lose and she, if she finishes 11 under, then she played the best of the tournament,

rightfully so she's gonna win. And so I did what I needed to do. I birdied 17-18, gave a good run. I'm proud of myself. And so it was time to play 18 again, and then I just stuck with my process, hit over the tree. I don't know how the drive ended up where I did. I don't know.

I was gonna ask, was that like, abnormally long for you? Yeah, well yeah. Because you did a past angel and angels a long hair. Well she took a different route. Okay. She went towards the left of the tree. I went over the tree.

That's what you couldn't really tell on TV, but where your balls ended up? It's ridiculous because when I played my 72nd hole, I had 200 in. So I hit soft, oh, it's ridiculous because my when I played my 72nd hole, I had 200 in. So I hit soft, too hybrid, and then during the playoff, I had a seven iron in. So I turned to Cole and I said, we hit something. And then he's like, no, there's just, it's just low spin. And I was like, well, whatever.

Whatever. Blame. Cool story. Finally on our recap of our LPJ content this year, Jane Park joined us for episode 717. Jane's playing career was halted as she cared for her infant daughter Grace, who is battle to a series of debilitating seizures. And much of our interview was focused on that part of Jane's story. And you can follow her on Twitter and Instagram at the Jane Park. If you'd like to contribute to some of the foundations

that Jane has set up to assist those parents in similar situations, we did find time to talk with Jane about her return to the LPGA tour this year's Dow Great Lakes Invitational and some of her favorite professional golfers, male and female to watch and learn from. Mixed event that we had in Australia, where I think it was at 13th Beach.

And the two times were men's group, then followed by a lady's group, followed by a men's group. And the respect that was paid to everyone, you know, I was hitting balls next to Jeff Ogleby. And I pretty much just stopped and like watched him pick balls. And it was, you know, he's doing things that I'm unable to do, but he's also admiring the women's game and saying, this girl hits her hybrid closer than my eight iron.

And they're like, I can't do that. But I think there was equal respect paid to that. And just having that opportunity to showcase both games and you know, you obviously can't compare the women's game to them in this game, it's just so completely different. But I will say, I'll be the first to say, I love watching men's golf because it's like you said it's like it's like superman shit like I can't nobody can do that and also don't use them but yeah, not with your piss poor attitude

Not with that attitude you cannot okay That was my lack of hip mobility Yeah, you and me both men. I'm I'm like my hips already feels so tight. Yeah, just having having that stage would just be That stage more often. I don't know. I don't know how to get there, but that's not really my job to When you do watch the women's game, who do you most well? Let me let me back up and say it's incredible You know last year. I think it was the parent the parent child tournament that Nelly courtorta played in and those PGA pros reacting to just wing

Yeah, yeah Just fawning which rightfully so I mean she has maybe her and like Adam Scott probably like the two most picturesque golf swings out there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had you Kim. He had you Kim's got a pretty decent move as well. Um, but man, I, gosh, if you've never seen Nelly or Jess, I mean, I think I think their swings are like pretty much identical. Um, if you've never seen them hit a ball up close, I mean, I've been paired with Nelly a few times and I am honestly so distracted by how incredible her swing is. The amount of speed she produces

but makes it look like so fluid and effortless. And I'm just so impressed. I'm impressed. And it kind of, it gives me like a glimpse of like maybe that's what people felt like when they were competing against Tiger. And but yeah, I mean, Tigers the goat. I still watch Tiger compilations on YouTube

when I'm like, I can't sleep. Like Tigers top 25 shots or something. That was such a golf nerd, man. That's ridiculous. Well, we mentioned Nelly's swing. I've curious on the women's side, what else do you admire in for what reasons? It could be, you know, iron plate,

short game, putting mental approach. I'm curious who you really look towards as things and attributes that stand apart. I mean, like in today's current game or... I think more current, yeah. Yeah. Current, yeah. Okay. Lydia Coe can get up and down from my mother's cleavage. Lydia Coe can get up and down from my mother's cleavage. Like, when I tell you, she can get up and down from anywhere. It is apps that she has the best pair of hands. And I know this from firsthand watching her

being paired with her, where I'm like, okay, well, she's completely screwed there. There's no way she's gonna get up and down. Then she, like, hits it to tap and range Or you know if I were in the same situation I'd be like let's just get this on the green somewhere best short game I think she has the best short game in the world. I put her up against anything or anyone and You know my husband Pete had cattyed for her for a year or two and. And he said the same thing like you wouldn't believe

where she hid it, but she got up and down like it was just like a straight chip right up the green from the short stuff. But Lydia definitely, she's got a great head on her shoulders. Obviously golf swing wise, Nelly, I could just watch her swing on repeat. And you know, these girls that come out of college and I'm just gonna dip into the rose saying pool because I'm a stan. I mean, you know what I wanted to ask you about rose. So yes, please go ahead. You know, like when I was in college,

you and when I first came out on tour, like 45 years ago, college players weren't as polished. And I find that the most incredible and the most impressive thing. You know, Rose obviously had a stellar amateur career, like pretty much won everything. But then back in the day, you'd see an amateur kind of have a lot of success as an amateur, but then you would wonder, like, how is that going to translate into the pro ranks? And a lot of times, they kind of struggle coming out from coming out of college and straight on to the on to the tour. But you know, in comes Rose, she says, hello world and winning on her first in her first pro debut. I mean, you don't

you don't see that. You don't see that ever, at least not in, not in my lifetime, but I'm, I'm glad I did because, man, you just, a lot of times you don't think that college game is gonna translate into the, into the professional ranks, but she did. And it was, you're just watching history, man. How lucky are we? Next up, one of my favorites of the year,

Patrick Harringtonington episode 700, a fascinating conversation as to how he's made sizable gains in his swing speed as he's into his 50s. If you were doing a clinic, if you were to describe to people where speed comes from, how you've been able to get to the levels that you're at right now at age 51, what's a high level way you would describe

of how you've been able to do that? The number one way to get speed is you've got to break your own mental inhibitions. That's it. So you've just got to hit a harder, first and foremost. And people don't understand that. They think they can go to the gym and get stronger. Yeah, that's nice.

Get stronger. But if you're going to hit the ball at the same pace in the golf course, you ain't hit any harder. You've got to hit the golf ball harder on the golf course. You've got to break the mentally innovations. At a level, you're going to have to change your, you know, try and break into your center nervous system and change what that thinks is fast. And so you like, you can have, you can have a very, very strong, powerful, fast person. And we've seen this a lot when you get sports people who are great athletes, come play golf. And they think golf is about swinging smooth and being, you know,

rhythm and all that sort of stuff. And they're terrible golfers. Whereas if I got an athlete, the first thing I do is I'd actually put a monitor on the ground, get them something like speed sticks which I use and so there's no head there to no inhibition to hit the golf ball and tell them, right, I want to see you swing You've got the feedback. I don't, you can do anything you like to make that go as fast you can. And whatever makes it go as fast as it can, I'd say, right, now we're going to work with that and create a golf swing from that swing. Whereas people think you can create a golf swing and then add speed. No, get the speed first. Then we can dial back and figure out, okay, we're going to play it 90% of that. We're going to maybe connect a few things. We're going to keep your arms a bit more connected. Your body something, take lots of things like that, but you've got to start with the natural speed for people who are playing golf. Yeah, they need to break the habit of what they're doing. So something like speed sticks is brilliant for that because it's taking you away from trying to match accuracy with speed, which you actually,

to start off, you have to give up the accuracy. Like, I would say to somebody, you know, if you were trying to gain speed at a very basic level, hit 20 balls a week where you're actually trying to hit them crocker. So it's hard to you can. And if they go crocker, great, you're not trying to hit them straight, you're trying to hit, you're actually just trying to for raw speed. Everybody wants two things. And they're separate. You can't, you know, everybody says,

oh, I want to hit it straight and fast. Well, do them separately. Have a swing that you hit straight and have a swing that you swing fast. And then marry the two. And what you might find is your fast swing might go 10 miles in a hour quicker than your encore swing.

And if you hit enough shots with that on the range, you might find that your encore swing that goes straight gains five miles in a hour. And we go back to the speed sticks. That's the whole concept. You're getting away from accuracy. You're swinging the stick, you're swinging at it, you lose that inhibition, you might gain 10 mile an hour there, but you, when you

go back to your norm, you're gaining two three mile an hour, which is like all the stats, guys, all these data guys are showing the number one thing to lower your handicap for amateur golfers is distance. And I know we can go back and say, well, you can go for efficiency too for distance, which is important. Now, that's why you should work with a PGA pro or coach to help with that. You know, if you're not hitting a draw off the tee for an amateur, it's madness. Like a losing, you know, a slice has cost me a 40 yards of distance.

And I swear at you, I'm talking mid-range amateurs. I'm talking like, you know, you're 10 to 15 handicapped. There's no way you're too crooked. I swear at you, you should be hitting the draw and hitting a 40 yards further down there. Amateurs can't afford to be hitting a paraphrase. Like unless you're a really quality player, you can't afford that. You've got to be drawn. So yeah, you've got to break your inhibitions, you've got to get more efficient, you've got to not worry about hitting the roof.

And this is another thing which I put them to that for years. Certain players can't play from the roof. Psychologically, they just kind of handle missing. They don't like being in the roof. They think, you know, they need to hit it on the fairway. So, if you're a short hitter, it's unlikely that you will have the mental capacity to miss a couple more fairways by getting, when you get longer. So, I've seen a lot of good players lose their game by trying to get longer. So So it's a dangerous thing. It takes a certain type person to be happy to hear 20 yards further and maybe miss two more fairways around. But I personally can't handle not having the potential. So I couldn't have the potential, or I couldn't handle the fact I'm 14 if I couldn't reach that green and two., I couldn't have the potential, I couldn't handle the fact I'm 14 if I couldn't reach that green in two. If I couldn't make the visit 300, I'd carry the first

day. It actually got quite short in the tournament. It actually got down to 285. But I couldn't stand up and compete if I taught somebody else could reach that green in two and I couldn't. Like I had to lay off. that doesn't do my head in episode 704 was one of our shorter interviews. We were able to catch up with both Scottie Sheffler and Jordan Spieth and Dallas at a title shoot to talk about Scottie's unique footwork. The reaction to Tigers, I don't take divots comment and a lot more packed into a half an hour with those two major champions. You know, there's a lot of commentary online just about Scottty's action, the foot action, it's different.

It's unique, but we kind of hear the same stuff when we tune on on TV as to, you know, what we see. What's, how would you describe what has made his golf swing so successful? Cause it looks unorthodox. I think to some of us, I think we would probably hear that a lot. Well, I think, you know, the footwork is a result of what it's necessary for him to do for the consistency he has. He's got to get off that right side, totally onto the left and he's able to hit, you know,

play that super consistent kind of cut shot with the driver that he has and then he's able to work the ball both ways at a very consistent level. I think the tempo, the set, I mean, Scottie's a grinder. He's always been somebody who, if anything, someone's had to pull him off the range versus ask him to practice more. When that happens, I feel like what he's doing

is he's just getting that same rhythm, that same tempo, making sure that the timing of when things are set. I mean, I'm speaking for him when he's right here But to me it seems like you know, it's his way. He knows how it works for him When I remember the same thing kind of happening to me on my left foot how I roll off or chicken wing and those were both weapons of mine That when I lost them a little bit I was playing worse golf and so actually getting them back is a better thing You talk about Justin Thomas the slow-mo of him being office feet when he's hitting

driver. Well, that's an advantage for him. He's using that ground force to push up, how he generates so much power. He just doesn't quite stay on the ground for it, which is pretty unique. But all these little things that are, you know, in quotes, not textbook are weapons that need to be I think looked at that way when they're done as well as he does them. Are you still as confused as you seem to be confused, Scotty, when Tiger was telling you about not taking divots with with the swing? Because there's been many, many videos that I've seen since then would

that would disprove what he was talking about when he's flushing it. He doesn't take divots. He looked confused in that video where you as confused as it looked. Yeah, so that was really early in the morning. And it was my first Taylor made shoot and we had literally just gone from singing Christmas carols in like costumes. And then we go out to hit balls. I'd gotten in late the night before from a tournament and now we're out on the range

just warming up. I'm trying to like figure out what's going on, what I'm doing. I look over and Tigers not making divots and I was like, what are you doing? And usually he gives me an answer this time, he didn't. And so I haven't seen the video on it what the look of my face was, but I'm sure I was pretty confused because I've asked some questions in the past

and he's typically giving me answers and this time he was just like, do I need to make a divot? And I was like, I'm asking you, man, tell me you. I'm asking you, man. Do you understand it? I mean, I think to an extent maybe just his control at the bottom is so good and he gets,

you know, maybe his hands in a position where he can have the art so low to the ground early enough and he can still hit the middle of the face without making a divot. At the same time, how many videos have you seen him take a massive pelt with tons of spins? I think he was probably messing with Scotty to a degree. That's good.

I think I did. You're trying to figure that out at the moment, but I think it was. But I think he can do anything. So maybe it was what he was trying to do at the time. I don't know. I haven't seen the video either. I just know that.

I'm sure there was definitely some level of him, him clowning with me at that time. Do you guys like still, I've seen videos of guys playing practice rounds and kind of messing around with different shots and stuff. And it seems like I'm kind of amazed at you guys still seeming to be very curious about different techniques of the way to hit certain shots.

Like, do you guys, do you feel like you're still learning how to do specific stuff? Because again, we're talking to some of those, seems like it has the complete package at the same time. I feel like guys are always tinkering and learning new techniques in a weird way. Yeah, I feel like I learn a lot by watching guys, and now that we're out on tour every week,

you know, I get to play with guys that are playing their best golf. And so I get to learn a lot just by watching. And I feel like I can see a lot of stuff. And then if I ever have a question, I ask and most of the time people will give answers, sometimes they don't. But I always like kind of just figuring out that type of information, like a vast Jordan and ton of questions when we plug off here at home just because it's a more relaxed atmosphere than an tournament.

But yeah, I feel like I'm still learning. Well, I tend to you would ask him. What's something you would want to, example of, or technicalize? I mean, I feel like when we just play around out here, it's the conditions change. Like, in the winter time, we play this golf course. The greens are a little bit firmer in the summertime. There are a lot softer, so you're trying to take off spin.

And so I just get curious just about what, I guess, more so what's going through his mind on certain shots, especially when he gets around the greens and and on them. And so I love picking his brain. Do you still feel like you're learning in that regard, Jordan? Yeah, I think so. I'll credit my coach Cameron a lot for certain shots, especially around the greens, where you know, might be a new way to hit a bunker shot that that he's figured out will help get it higher, softer, and land it shorter.

You know, when you get in trouble, it's more like shots when you're potentially in trouble or wider action. When you get around the greens, it's not a golf swing. You know, they're all different shipping motions to create the loft and spin that you need, or need to drop, depending on the shot. So I feel like I've learned quite a bit from him on that.

I'll see some players do some things. I've historically been, it's been a character flaw of mine to be too stubborn to ask a lot of questions, thinking like I already knew how to do everything. And then you see some guys hit shots and you're like, man, I think I know how you did that. And I'll just, what were you thinking on that? And the thing is like, for us, I could feel one thing.

And if he felt the same thing, it could be totally different, right? So when you ask somebody about their feels on it, it could help, but it may just be like, oh, that's actually doesn't work at all for me. But it's still worth, you know, asking those questions. I mean, Tom Kim asked a ton of questions. He's one that asked a ton of questions, but like I'm envious of that at his age, because I think he'll, you

know, he's got most every shot around the greens. He's, that's probably the most underrated part of his game, but he'll still be asking how you hit him, even though I just watched him hit it as well or better than I just did, you know. So I think it's something that even at 10 years in right now, it's useful for me to continue to try to do. I feel like both you guys in or in a way are kind of big brothering. Tom Kim, a little bit here in Dallas. Is that, is that seem right?

You guys were at dinner last week. What I think I think I've been dad and that's got it. Scottie Scottie's been big brother. We normally steer clear of replaying moments from our Sunday night recap pods on these year and episodes, but we have to make one exception, episode 721. Trauma's so convinced that Tommy Fleetwood was about to win his first major at the 2023 open that he flew overnight to Liverpool.

Where Tommy ultimately finished T10, nine shots back of Brian Harmon, but here's what happened when T.C. joined the Sunday live show to face the music. Look at this. We're. I'm going to go ahead and give him one of my earbuds so that he can hear the audio.

And we'll see if this works. We're going to do a little like in the field correspondent, as Jimmy Weaver was called lollipoppin with the mic. So please KVV you asked the questions. Okay. So please, KVV, you asked the questions. OK. T.C., you've come back from, I think, some time with Mr. No, that's my thing. And you should put that in your ear. OK.

Kevin, that was mine that was not working. Over there, and I ran over in the rain. It is like a monsoon out there. Not a huge monsoon. So I did see a picture of you and Tommy together. If you could maybe tell us how that came about. Yeah. Tommy apologized profusely over and over and over again.

Big, really big of him. And I said, Tommy, I apologize to you. I should have been here earlier. And yeah, I don't know. I was just the guy tried really hard. And he had a bunch of pressure on him this week. And I was pissed that he didn't get the ball to the hole. It's brandy shut up.

Can you imagine PC saying this about anybody else? I know. I know. He tried really hard. I really thought it's not your fault, Tommy. He's not. Let him go. So you would use it.

We can use this audio for anything. Look, not him finish it. I want to hear the whole finish take. We can use it forever. T.C., you are under oath, by the way, right now. That's true. All right, I feel like things, if we got this weather yesterday, we're not having this conversation. All right, things just didn't break our way.

Straight up. They didn't break our way. I know we made a triple on 17. I didn't see it. I broke off after 40 bales. You didn't see them into the clubhouse. I built because I was trying to get back here and then get a job to do. We told them you had to be ready, especially when you like, it turns out the RNA isn't very friendly.

It's a journalist who show up, you know, morning of the final round. No, I know that. It's tough. It's tough. So I'm proud of TC referring to myself as a journalist now. We've come a long way, baby. A lot of people about me, a lot of beers today, guys. Took a lot of selfies with people. Very unjournalistic on my part. I apologize for that. I'm so wet. Like it, like, it was, I mean, like anybody in the States, this would have been a, like a third full. Everybody stuck around till the end. Like I've never been to the open before. I had an awesome day. It was so much fun. People were, you want to talk about the best fans in golf. These are the best fans in golf, Randy. You would love it. You would

eat it up. You heard it here. I mean, what a what a field report we have there. TC, as TC, if you, if he can give us a little bit of detail about that dream he had last night, oh, yeah, they want to know what the dream. Guys, the dream was on Friday night. Excuse me. Yes. I slept on the plane last night, Randy. Right, right.

Just to, you know, like, I want to see you believe in something like I believed in Tommy, which by the way, I feel closer than ever. I feel like we are, we are so close. He's raised his floor. He might win the FedEx cup, which, which should be cool for you. I can't imagine how cool though. I know you've always celebrated that. And I, yeah, FedEx cup should be the fifth major as you've always said. I don't know. I talked to you can't, you can't win the FedEx cup anymore without winning a tournament. I could see this like pre 2019, but unfortunately, you do have to win a tournament to do that. Which is that, you know what, it's all that makes it even cooler, right?

Let's get back to the dream. What was in the dream? What what convinced you that you needed to hop on this plane? That he was going to win the FedEx Cup? No, no, absolutely not. No, it was going to be like one of the greatest sporting moments of all time. He was like, he was up on everybody's shoulders. I don't know, it was just, it was very vivid, okay? I'm just very vivid. I feel like this dream is like letter boxed in like four, three aspect, like one of the 1977, you know, old BBC broadcasts. It's all like, it's all kind of washed out.

And I would imagine that's probably how it looked, T.C. I don't know, man. Like I just sat with Finno for like an hour. Finno and it's why when we recapped like the last three rounds and like I don't like he got full by the wind on one hole. He just it was like the puts just didn't go in man and like I know they haven't gone in and a lot of the majors but I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep betting on Tommy and the people that are fans of the Vision Fund or shareholders. Like, you guys, I took

money out of my own pocket to come here. If that doesn't tell you exactly where my heart is and where my head is, I don't know what to tell you. I can't do any better than that. Next up, episode 728, Billy Walters came on the pod to discuss his book, Gambler Secrets From a Life at Risk. Sizeable portion of the book

is centered around Walters' relationship with Phil Mickelson and their fallout when both found themselves in legal trouble. How did you guys leave your relationship? What's the last time you spoke

or kind of, you know, you talk a little bit about in the book, there was a gambling debt he had towards you that lingered for quite some time. And obviously ends pretty awkwardly with you, you know, him not taking the stand to testify on your behalf, but how have you guys left it if you hadn't communications?

Well, I went to prison for 31 months. I had some family issues. I have a son who's severely into lex and he almost died two th that came up, you know, a your mind and feel not test one of those and then then commit a suicide. That's

forgiving poor. Has he attempted to mend the relationship at all, or is there any help there? I was playing golf at Rachel's, I played one day with some friends. I was coming out the range, headed to the cart and he walked up to me. And this is not a club in the sky. And we had a brief conversation and he told me how good it was to me back on the golf course and And I'm glad he was and he went on the slayway, you know Freeze I didn't testify and so district of New York. He said I don't know what Tom Davis told you

I said no one asked you to testify to what Tom Davis told me. I said don't give me the bullshit I said all anyone wanted you to do was testify to what I told you. That's the only thing you could testify to. And then I made him aware of the fact that my donor committed suicide in prison and he said he was sorry. And that's the last time I spoke to him. You know, the thing is, when I went to prison,, first of all, when the issue came up and I was indicted, he held his press conference and said he was going to be a lot more careful

about the people of the Associated himself with, referring to me. And at the same time, he had just gone into a partnership with Brian Zuroff and they had started to show the match. And Brian's a convicted fellow. I know Brian. I'm only making appointments with a convicted fellow because just to show you how big a hypocrite bill is. He has a press conference. He's dissonant of himself from me because I'm a convicted fellow but at the same time, you know, he's in a partnership with a convicted fellow. And so anyway, as in prison, it was difficult. It was difficult because of my son and my daughter. And although

I like to, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive him for that. We closed the month of August with episode 733 of visit with George Gankus to talk about all things swing mechanics, coaching Matt Wol wolf through his struggles and how he tries to help his tour pros handle difficult rounds. How do you send your players on their way, right? I can leave a golf lesson feeling great. I can take note of all the, all of the things I need to be working on yet, you know, I struggle with the balance of all right.

Now when things go wrong again, do I need to check in with my coach or do I figure this out on my own and my Overlie rely on my coach is he just gonna tell me the same things How do you send your guys on their way to practice and and implement things and not be overly relying on you every time they go out and shoot a bad round? I think when a coach doesn't tell you a lot It's because they want your your mind to be clear and they want you to play better It's because they want your mind to be clear and they want you to play better. But I explain everything in detail. Whether that's too much for a player or not or just overbearing in information, I don't care.

Because I want them, I believe that they're only going to come to me one time and I'm never going to see them again. So, if I have that belief and the thing that I always tell players, like, well, when should I get in? I don't give a shit when you come in. I'm booked for a year. I don't need you. I want you to play good and I want you. I want to give you everything you need.

So if you want to come back next week and you can get in, I'm all for it and I'll help you to death. But I want you to understand this information. So when you go look in the mirror, you go look on video, you know you're doing it right. And here's the check points. These are the things that you need to look. And if it's going bad, this is why.

Is it your face? Is it you're not recentering? Are you not getting depth? Are you not finishing your term? What's really going on? I want them to be their own coach. And if they can be their own coach, they don't need me. And that to me has always been someone who cares and someone who is a real, real good

coach for them, not somebody that's going to rely on them, because a lot of coaches in my opinion want you to rely on them because they need somebody to come back to. So that is not me and I'm not knocking somebody that needs to keep business going because that's part of a plan. And that's a it's a good plan. I think the player should see people very often. But the fact is, is not giving information out and not letting them actually, you know, think on their own is a different story. So for you to answer your question thoroughly, I would say, you personally, if you leave a lesson, you should, if something's going wrong, there should be some detailed plans

to what to do next. Am I getting steep? What do I do if I get steep? These are your checkpoints, okay? If I'm actually starting to hook it, these are my checkpoints, you're not rotating through it. Why can't I rotate through it? Because you're moving your upper body off too much and you're not re-centering. So now you can't rotate. Your face is getting open. You got to check this. So things like that are things that I'm very thorough on and make sure that they understand. And I also, like I said, I've given my number for like two, two weeks out, you've got free ranges to send me videos. And they do. People send me videos and do, that's the coolest you didn't have to do that. But the fact is, is that if I can 20 seconds fucking see something on video, send them back a voice memo, and it gets them on their way. Fuck, it's no brainer.

Next up, a project that was near and dear to our hearts. We released a documentary film about our friend Jim Hartzel and his book When Revelation Comes. Profiles the loss of his son Jordan and how he found peace through a trip to some of his favorite links courses in Scotland. And we recorded a podcast with Jim and our pal Matt Golden, who's edited a ton of our video content over the year. Episode 741 when Revelation Comes Jim, I want to start with you. You had a chance to watch the film for the first time today. As I mentioned up front, it is based on a book that you wrote in

20, really came out in 2022, but the whole book is based around a trip that you took in 2021. We tried our best to kind of recreate the feelings, the thoughts, all of the things that went into that original trip and really tried to celebrate your return trip that you took in 23 with Tron and Matt and Patty and Robbie and all the people that you see in the film. And so I guess we'll just start really high level. Your reaction to seeing it for the first time,

what was kind of the most important thing for you to have come across on film? And I guess just kind of initial impressions. Yeah, I got to say it's difficult to talk about in a way. I mean, I watched it once when trying to send it. And I just really cried the entire time I was watching it to be quite honest with you. It's just beautifully put together and it. It's just what I love about it is, this is a terrible subject, there's no doubt. But that's not the point of the book. The point of the book is to celebrate life

and to celebrate Jordan's life and to celebrate the Scottish people. And that's what this film does. And just to see Robbie and Greg and Finley and Harry, who's one of the greatest characters, it's ever walked the planet. I just, I laughed out loud while I was crying. When I wrote this book, that's what I wanted to happen.

I, you know, and you guys have read it and, you know, they're humor in it. And I deal with life with humor a lot of times. And I tell Tron, he'd text me a few days ago, and he said, look, Jim, I want you to know this. It's pretty, at times, it's emotional. And I said, as long as there's humor in it, I'm fine. And he said, don't worry, there's plenty of that.

And it is. And I just can't thank you guys enough for the way that you captured the spirit of this book and the spirit of the people of Scotland, which just totally comes across to me, which is, I can't ask for anything. And honestly, I test a tribute to Jordan too. I just, that part and some of the stuff. It's perfect. It's perfect. And so thank you for that. Well, the guy who had maybe the biggest hand in crafting how the final project looks is Matt Golden, who's on the pod today.

You've probably seen his name in just about every credit that I think we've ever put out. Matt has been working with us since we did. Tourist sauce Australia and just to embarrass him a little bit, I think the first interaction we ever had, you know, where I had just quit my job at the PJ Tour. I'm pitching these guys on like, oh, maybe we should make a travel series.

I don't really know how to use a camera, but maybe we can shoot it on our cell phones. I don't know. We'll just, let's just go to Australia and we'll shoot it all and we'll figure it out. Matt had just cold emailed me and was like, hey, I'm a freelance editor. I'm making a business for myself.

And you know, I watch what you guys do and listen to the podcast and my specialty is just kind of taking a big pile of footage and just trying to find a story on it. I was like oh my god man this is our this is our guy. This is how we play. That's right and so as much as people like to to pile credit onto me which of course feels very nice and I would never share that with anybody but it's really mad behind the scenes that spins a lot of these things up. And I think Matt, this is kind of the first time

that we've really turned you loose on like, hey man, you're running the ship, you're shooting everything, you're editing it, you tell us what you need. And so I want to start with just like, what was that experience like for you? And how did you see Jim's story? And where did you want to take it?

Because this is something I think you, me and Tron, have been talking about for, I mean, really going back before Jordan passed away and just seeing Jim's passion for all these places in Western Scotland. And I think we've been talking about this for three, four years around like, God, if we could ever go to Western Scotland with Jim, I think that just feels like the dream project. And obviously, there was a lot more context added.

So Matt, how did you kind of want to wrap your head around things and where did you start? Yeah, first off, you're going to get so many cold emails now from... That's right, I don't respond anymore. Right, yeah, no. We found our guy, we're good. Good timing, good timing. But, you know, yeah, we've been talking about this one

for a long time. And I think it had so many different layers and kind of stories that we thought it could be. Still in this piece, it's like mixing three or four or five different trips into one thing. And we get a little bit of like, okay, show us, you know, the travel series of it all. Show us these places that we know you love and show us why and the people and the, but then we also have kind of the full circle moment of the book signing and that whole journey and the journey of writing the book and the journey of, you know, getting to meet all these characters and Robbie and Greg and all them.

And I think it was just when we've set out to go shoot it, our baseline was like we have the source material. We have this incredible interview we did the gym in his office. And if we just go create B-roll and capture B-roll for that and get really beautiful stuff, which is not hard at these places. It's point the camera, press record, and make sure you save the files, which is harder sometimes than you do. But thank goodness, we tried to get more than that. We tried to capture the moments and the levity and the culture and the people that were able to bring healing and were able to transform Jim and all of us, you know, to a new place. And I think we were able to kind of achieve that. I think we were able to achieve

showing off these places with incredible shots and that baseline, but also something a little bit more to. So, no, this one's been a special project and this has been something I've been working on for a long time and I can't wait, you know, to get it out into the world and see, uh, see reaction from people. Next section of the pod will be from the 2023 Ryder Cup recap as we relive the European triumph in Rome. We'll start with episode 750 with Max Homa who gave us his take on being a Ryder Cup rookie, including making a huge putt on the 18th hole of a singles match and always from the pro. Some honest self examination on his ability to embrace the pressure of the biggest moments in golf.

Basically, just take me through kind of from there until the time that the putt hit the bottom of the cup. Well, it's actually funny you started the end because I was convinced the first tee would be the most nervous I've ever ever ever been. And I was convinced the first T would be the most nervous I've ever ever ever been and I was so wrong I had on the first T to that moment I Thought I got better as a week went on about like controlling my nerves and just like it was laughable how nervous I was on the first T I felt so calm until right when I stepped into the tee shot, my left leg went nuts. And I told Joe, it's like when you're doing a wall sit and you do it a little too long. Now he's like, oh, I couldn't see it. And he'd always joke because it's so funny

what you feel because he goes, you look so like poised and calm. And I'm like, dude, I just like lost control of my body. But I hit the fairway. So I was like, I'm gonna take that with me. Fast forward that to the last, I would say the last three holes, but that last, that last hole is such a blur to me when we got home. I nerded out and I totally said that I have to watch the last hole, like in real time, because I was like, I don't remember a lot of it. Like I remember what I felt like. I don't remember.

It just a lot of it was so blurry. I remember little, felt like. I don't remember. It just a lot of it was so blurry. I remember little little things. Matt made me put a 12 inch put on. I was probably longer than that, but 18 inch put on 17 and I was nervous, but I was never missing it. I remember walking off the green security. I'm giving you a very long answer for this one putt. But we had nothing. Nothing to bring us. Nothing less to you bags. But security had done a very poor job all week. I thought are the volunteers or whatever. With when we would walk off the greens once the euro, if the euros were first,

like everyone would follow after them and it got pretty old. It happened the first day on one whole where we were getting killed after nine holes to Victor and Ludwig. And I feel bad. I shoved a man out of my way. Like it was just like absurd how many media people were there that were clearly just fans of the, like they weren't media people you could tell. So we were all kind of fed, or maybe I'm not going to speak for everybody.

I was fed up with it, and when we were walking off 17, I was, I was pretty pissed off that I was still on the golf course because I thought I should have won by then and I was and I was pissed that I Had to put a very short put After giving Matt a longer one and then while we were walking off Matt had beat obviously was already off the green and was up The hill to 18 and all of a sudden it's just getting filled with people. And four of those people were the Euro team players. One of them was Rory, and I'm like walking behind him and he like had stopped. And I-

Did you see the guy you shoved out of the way? No, it was close. I will tell Rory if he didn't say sorry, I don't think I was going for him. So I said exciting. So he started waving his head in your face. Is that what happened to him? I think he had his head off by then.

His protest began right as the event ended. So, but I said excuse me. And I was like very annoyed that they were all there. But he obviously, it's Rory. He said sorry and like moved out of the way. But I was just like so tilted by that, which was kind of helpful because it like moved my nerves to kind of like back to that kind of FU attitude.

And then the last soldier's a blur and I was so nervous and tired and all of those things that I got. I thought of one thing that was stuck out when I had that pie is that on Friday afternoon I missed I had a very very good pie with Justin against Justin Rose when I played with Wyndham and I wind him deserved to win that match. He played tremendous the the back nine. He hold putt after putt and was just rock solid and I had, you know, 12 feet or whatever on that that whole I had a putt. Missed in Rosie makes it right in the middle and I mean, he played unbelievable, deserved it, but I felt awful and in college, I missed a putt, I three putt my last hole in my collegiate career to lose the Thomas Peters to lose

in match play of the team event. And I was so like, despondent for like 40 hours. And I remember flying to the US Open Qualifier. And I remember being on the plane saying, I don't know if it will be tomorrow a week from now, a month from now or 10 years from now, I want that putt again. Like please let me have that putt again. I do not want to end my golfing career without getting an opportunity to show that I can do that. Like I know I can do that and just so happen that the next day I had seven

feet to get into a playoff or to keep a playoff going to get to the US open and I made it. And I remember being over that putt saying, Bubba, you asked for this, like, you could be nervous, but you asked for this exactly. So you better at least relish the opportunity. And I remember I met Miss and I had seven, seven feet. And I remember saying, you asked, you wanted this. So like flip the nerves, you're nervous, but you're not scared. Like you asked, you wanted this. So like flip the nerves, you're nervous, but you're not scared. Like you asked for this exact moment

and you're getting in the biggest way, but it was just crazy. I was basically telling everybody, you dream your whole life as every single golf or ever has of making a putt to win the rider cup or making a putt to win the masters of the US opener, whatever, I have never jumped of making a putt to not lose the rider cup.

That was a very different feeling. And I had such a good week, personally, on the golf course that I knew I would be labeled a choker and it just didn't feel like a fair thing. But I remember I really turned my brain on. You wanted this. It's a very cool opportunity. But I lost full control in my body. I can't believe watching it that you can't see my legs shaking.

I couldn't feel anything. Like my legs were like full blown vibrating. Like my I had 50 phones tied to my legs and everyone was calling me. It was a wild. And I watched it, like I said last night, I just don't know how I made it. And that motherfucker was right in the goddamn middle.

It was the best play ever. And I just don't know. It was crazy. middle. Like it was the best putt ever. And I just don't know. It was crazy. And then it was funny because I turned to Scotty and Colin. And I was ice cream so loud, so loud. And Scotty kind of got amped up and Colin was kind of clapping. And they didn't know I took it on playable. They thought I got a regular drop.

So they thought I had two putt. So Scotty said when I hit it, he said slow down, like slow down. And I came up to them after and I was like going crazy. And they were like, you know, Scottie, kind of, Scottie said he decided whatever I did, he was going to match my energy. So he was up, but everybody didn't seem quite as like up as I was. Well, nobody knew standing next to the green.

Nobody, it was just you. No, no one trusted him. It's not like there's an announcer out there. So everybody just assumed the ball was betting or something. Yeah. No, nobody quite knew like a rider comes literally on the line for that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I didn't know why they were booing. I didn't understand anything that was going on. And then we got it back to 17. And Scotty goes, I had no idea. I was like, me. I was like, so it was the craziest moment, but I'm so thankful that I got to have it. And obviously, I'm extremely grateful that it went in.

But yeah, it was, I don't know, it was, I had so many experiences that week and then to get to kind of finish my personal performance on the golf course with that was really cool. I wouldn't call it a dream come true because none of the actual end of it didn't. It wasn't like some dream story, but I was convinced this week that I would take some things from here and go forward, use it to go forward in my career.

Brooks had something really interesting in the press conference that everybody saw when they asked, who wants the ball, like who truly wants it, who wants the putt, and he said very few. And I thought about it all week, because I was like, man, to him and to everybody in golf, like the people who want the ball are major champions. And I have been absolutely tremendously bad at them for what I think I'm capable of and I was like I

Bet you he like I'm not on his short list of people who want the ball And if I had to ask myself deep down in the I think it's like in your core like you have to go through you have to dig I think everybody would say I want that putt as a man Maybe if I dug deep down. maybe I don't want that. And it felt, I thought about it all week. So I was like, I want to be that guy. I want to be, I respect so much of what Brooks does in those majors and obviously Tiger

and like my favorite athlete ever, Kobe, like they clearly, like that's in their DNA. They want that. Winner lose and there, you know, you could be in the worst fiber. And all of a sudden I had a moment where I was like I said It wasn't to win it was to not lose it which I think is way scarier and I was just convinced that like I'm going to at some point prove that like I that is who I am and

I think even if I missed it The way I approached it I was proud of of, but I was very happy that it went because I want to be one of those people he's talking about and I have not proven that yet. So it was nice to at least add that to my at least my roll of decks in my head of things. I can harken back on, you know, and hopefully a year's time at one of the four big ones. Next we had a chance to visit with Hunter Mayhan, talk about his experience broadcasting in Rome

for the world, for the Ryder Cup, Hunter of course, as a former Ryder Cupper who once asked some of the same questions about player compensation that resurfaced during this year's matches we talked about, that controversy and how it also potentially impacted the 2023 US team. Yeah, I mean, I opened my big mouth years ago and got a lot of flat foot talking about.

I think Mark Camira and DeVole were some of the early guys the time to talk about it. And I talked about it to a guy and it was the wrong place, the wrong time. What I said, I never met a part of a team. So it was my own, you know, uh, negligence in being stupid and young. But it's a real thing in terms of, this is a big event. There's 24 of us playing. They're making a lot of money off the event.

I think what just you just want a little bit of transparency and to tell us what we're doing, how we're getting reciprocated for our efforts and our product that we're putting out there. And where is the money going? Because I know, because it's not like it just goes in it, someone's pocket. I mean, it funds the PGA of America. It funds all their junior programs

and it funds everything that they do. It's just, you just want a little transparency when you don't know where it's going and it feels like you're being taken advantage of a little bit, right? And so it has come to, you know, Persekin for the charity and that's great. I think it just needs transparency is what I would go back to and just say, hey, Peter Verish should come in and talk to the players and say, hey, this is where it goes, how we do. These are the things we do for you. And just kind of lay it out. So it's a little bit, you have a better understanding of it.

I think when you just sort of show up and do it, and you see the size of the tents, and you see the merchandise, you see all that stuff, you do feel like, wait a minute, am I getting my sort of fair share? And I know people talk about, you know, you get photos, is it? I get that. And in any business, when you work, you want to about, you know, you get photos, is it a, I get that? And in any business, when you work, you wanna get, you know, you wanna get your money

for the work that you do. So, I don't mind the players asking the question. I just think a little transparency, a little understanding of what's happening, where it's going. And I think honestly, as we all work, we're like, we're a bore with that, and it's totally fine.

We're good. We're good. But I think it was a problem this year, and I think that was sort of substantiated afterwards. Like it was an issue. It was not. When not everyone is truly there and bought in and ready to go, and is there to kind of just be there? It's not a great feeling,

right? You're going against a giant who's all in. And when we talk to what we just spend the long time talking about, they're all in. And you're not all in. And they're some of your best players, and they play together, and you don't believe. But there are also two guys where you see out there playing, you're like, well, who else do I pair with? Are they the guys that I ask to sort of help take charge? It made Patrick's awesome. He's in that Bricks' mold, right? Where they're just, they're a little bit better individuals

and they are sort of part of a group. It's sort of the reality of it. Because Bricks is, he's an assassin, he's a killer, he's an ass, like he's just going to like in singles, he just mows you down, you know, in Patrick's sort of the same way, but like these guys aren't wrapping their arms around, wind him and saying, hey brother, just lean on me all day. If you have any problems, you have any questions, like Justin Leonard when I play with him, he just like, I just leaned on him that whole week and I didn't, I put it Phil's, sorry afternoon and he came up to me and just

hugging me and said, I'm going to be here all day with you. If you ever need anything, you have any question, I'm right here, right? That's leadership and that's like not what you see from the U.S. side. You see bonding, but you don't see a guy wrapping their arms around the window and saying, bro, I got you. I got you. I'm going to talk you through this all day. I'm going to be with you all day. I'm going to like just, you know, you're just like a, like a taken care of a puppy. Like you're just, you know, you're just feeding them confidence, feeding them energy. It's like, we just didn't have that, right? It just, you know, it just, you know,

in part of that, you're just not asking the guys, you're just not asking them about that. And then I think honestly, when you build your team next time, you gotta take that into consideration. Like, who are my dudes who are gonna take the other guys? Like, that's a real thing to ask. Probably should bounce over to the European side here, the, you know, the team that won

this episode, 757, European stats guru at Wardow, Mulanari. And while there's plenty of talk of analytics set up and pairings, this stretch from Doto really helped give us some insight as to why the Europeans always seem to punch above their weight in the rider cup, particularly on home soil. I walk away from every one of these and be like, okay, this is why Europe wins. This is why Europe wins. And I still, you've played in a rider cup, like you've been here for this. How does that team environment translate

to playing better golf? Like why is that, right? I mean, I can see it in my own eyes. I still struggle to explain why that is though. That's difficult to put into words. I think you feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself. You see like especially the top guys in the team,

they literally leave for the Ryder Cup. Like even someone like Rory on the Monday night, he gave, you know, we just said a bit of a shot after dinner with the whole team and, you know, the players' vice captains and look. And Rory was trying to explain what the Ryder Cup means to him. And at the end of it, he was almost in tears, he was almost like, he was so ready for it and he just wanted it so badly.

And I told him on the Sunday after we won, I bumped into him on 18 when we were waiting for Shane to finish and I said, I just couldn't believe how much this means to you because obviously you still have the masters to win, you still have, you want to win majors, I thought you wanted to win mostly majors. And he said, this year, this is the thing that I wanted the most, which from someone like him is like, it's powerful. So I think when you're a rookie in that team room, when you see someone like that, that is so motivated to play well, it just inspires you to play better golf.

And then the other thing as well, I think is that again, guys like Rory, John, I mean, if you walked in the team room any day of the week, it looked like John and Rory were best mates with Bob and Nicolai, and they probably saw each other two times before the week. But it was literally, you know, having dinner together and, you know, Bob was sitting at the table, Rory would go there and have a chat,

and it's like, it's difficult to see. NBA superstar, Steph Curry rejoined the pod this year. He was named the 2023 Charlie Siford award winner for his work in advancing diversity in the game of golf. Here he is on the pod. Your work with the Howard golf team, you know, has been, has been decently well documented

in the golf world, and I want to follow up with that. But tell us about the underrated golf tour. What you're doing there, it's remarkable from the stuff I've heard. I don't think I fully appreciate it until I was getting ready to chat with you tonight. But tell us about what that is and what you've seen out of that program so far. It's been great, man. I think the foundation of the underrated golf tour is continuing to boost resources and opportunity for the underrepresented, especially in the competitive

golf age where some of their counterparts are playing in some of the age age A.G.A. events that are amazing around the country and we're trying to find a way to kind of boost up that pipeline of how do we get more black and brown kids out there on the golf course, supporting them and their families in terms of getting them to the venues and creating first-class experiences for them at PGA, major type venues, creating a base where these kids really believe that they're first or second, that if you give them the experience and boost confidence and give them an opportunity to shine, that it can change lives.

And for us to be where we are in our second year, we've had 10 total tour stops. We supported this equity on both the Boys and Girls side. This year we were up to about 100 tour members that got to travel to four different venues around the country, play in two-day tournaments. We had a local qualifier for kids who were in whichever region. They all kind of competed through those tour stops and then there was a Curry Cup out

in the Bay Area where we brought the top 12 boys and the top 13 girls out for the tournament or the championship tournament. and the top 13 girls out for the tournament or the championship tournament. And Skyline Shows have been awarded everything's free of charge for the kids to come to each event. We have some amazing sponsors and supporters. KPMG was the title sponsor this year

who really showed up in a meaningful way to give these kids a first class experience. And a lot of kids are left behind in this age range where they can't afford to go to all the different tournaments. They haven't had the same kind of runway to qualify for certain events. So we've had two or three in our first year and hopefully a lot more, they're going to get college scholarships out of the exposure that they've had through the tour. And we're just getting started trying to take it international next summer.

Hopefully have kind of an introductory tour stop over and across the pond in Europe and eventually kind of grow the same format overseas. And as long as it's answered what it really is, but the biggest thing is that golf is such a vehicle for change, not just in the playing perspective, like the competitive golf element can take kids to college scholarships, like I said, further the educational experiences, networking, all the while we're trying to teach them

workforce skills and character development skills that can help them prepare them for wherever they end up. We obviously the North stars to get as many as much more representational in both the LPGA, PGA tours and international tours. But meanwhile, we know that not everybody's going to make money playing this game. So if we can get them in the right rooms through golf, like that's going to change lots forever. Can you give people a listen idea that are not familiar. If they don't have kids that play AJGA or didn't play AJGA themselves, kind of give people an idea of what the pipeline into competitive golf looks like and what the hurdle is to clear for young people of any

race or color playing golf growing up. Yeah, I mean, the introductory phase is actually really solid right now. There's obviously everybody, most people who know golf know it, heard of the first T, the PGA of America, it's a great program, it's a PGA junior league. And that's, they've been a great job of trying to get clubs and kids hands early. There's an organization called Youth On Course that does a lot of amazing work to kind of be the bridge

of okay, kids are interested in the game, they go to the driving range, they go to the first tee programs in their sites, but then they wanna go play, and you can't afford green fees, they can't afford to go to different places, and so they subsidize that effort to get kids on courses. But from this call it from eight years old,

maybe nine, eight, nine, 10 to 17 when they're trying to become, you know, college ready. It's an expensive journey. It's a, you know, obviously we know golf is an equipment, travel, you know, lodging, registration fees, like, there are amazing tournaments and if you can afford to do it, like, it's such a rewarding experience

and you know, there's so many different success stories of people who have gone, both, you know, young boys and girls have gone through that program, but if you don't have that access, you don't have that know-how exactly to your question, even from a parent perspective, if you don't know where to send your kids or a passion about the game, and you can't afford to keep up that pace,

like that's where a lot of kids get left behind, and so we're trying to, you know, be support and be resources in that window. And like I said, there's so many talented kids that get a club in the hand early. You see that light, you know, kind of that light bulb go off. And what do they do from there? And for us, that's a huge goal of ours to kind of answer that question. Our final clip on this year's medley episode number 768 with the one and only Lee Trevino, a absolute bucket list guest. Probably number one on my list for quite some time,

a podcast that will I think always be first ballot in a U Hall of Fame episode. Spend over two hours with Lee and person is impossible to articulate how great of a story teller is into his 80s. Hope you get to do another one of these with him someday. But if we're going to relive one of his countless stories, it is this one. Well, what happened at the 1968 PGA championship? I believe you were you were drinking on the Saturday night and then something happened with some Gatorade. This story is incredible. Well, I should have won that PGA. We're playing for Khan Valley in San Antonio. I've got a condominium right next to the clubhouse, because they had the condo there.

And a guy by the name of Bucky Boy at the time, his son is a big agent for some of the ball players and stuff now, but his dad was a fantastic guy. And he was a go-getter. He was a type of guy that you could kick him out to do a buddy of climb through a window. You didn't take no for an answer. We're sitting there in their party and living room. Well, I got to get to bed, because I'm there pretty close.

You know, I'm a shot back or whatever it was. I might've been leading or tied. So anyway, so no, I wasn't tied, because I finished before the other guys. And so maybe a couple of shots back. I can get the answer for you right here. Third round, you were two shots back. Yeah, I was tied for third. Right. I was a couple of shots back. And they're all pointing everything. All of a sudden, a guy comes to the front door with a case of gatorade. And nobody knew what the hell this was.

Gatorade, what is it? He said, well, it's a thing that they did in Florida, or Florida State, college, and they did it for the players, they get hydrated, and all this, blown it, and say, okay, I tasted it. I said, hell, this is pretty good stuff. So now we're drinking tequila. And they said, well, how is it, if you mix it with tequila, and the guys just pretty good.

So they started mixing it with tequila. It was pretty good. It was pretty good, so it was good, draining. So I said, man, I said, I'm sorry. I got to go to bed. So it was about midnight. I'm not going to play them on 32 o'clock. So all of a sudden, I wake up about three, four o'clock

in the morning and I'm thirsty, boy. I am thirsty as I can be. And I see this kind of this pan, you know, that you'd boil eggs in or something and it's in the refrigerator and it's got gatorade in it. And I said, oh, shit, I'll drink that. And I chuckle lug that stuff and it was full of tequila. Well, I'm right back where I started. I'm right back where I started. And it was 108 degrees the next day.

I don't know how I ever finished. That was a worse silly stuff worse silly stuff. What did you shoot that fight around? It wasn't good. Let me see if it's 75 maybe. Let's see if it's in there. You didn't finish in the top 10. No. Yeah, you felt bad. I don't know what you shot. Yeah, yeah, maybe I'm still out there. And with that, the 2023 holiday medley episode is at an end. Thank you so much for continuing to support what we do here at NLU from our entire team.

We hope you and your loved ones have a wonderful holiday. Cheers. Get it right, club. Be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most.

Better than most.