No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 813: LPGA Match Play & ANWA Preview + Rachel Heck Interview

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

We've got a busy episode tonight as Randy, Cody and Jordan preview the upcoming LPGA Match Play in Las Vegas and the 5th edition of the Augusta National Women's Amateur with both events getting underway on Wednesday. We also catch up with Stanford's Rachel Heck (1:11:00) to discus her recent essay "Why I'm Remaining an Amateur" which you can find on our website at the link below. https://nolayingup.com/blog/why-im-remaining-an-amateur Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back into the No Laying Up Golf Podcast. My name is Randy. I'm joined today by Cody McBride and Jordan Perez. Cody, always good to talk to you, man. How are you today? Back at it again, buddy. I'm excited here. Match play week plus Anwa, Anwa. We're going to get a lot more into that, but I'm excited, man. Well, good, good. Always happy

to have you here. And also Jordan Perez. Jordan, have you made it to Augusta yet? Where are you? I have made it to Augusta, guys. This is the best week of the year. I am so so excited and yeah Because this is where it all started. This is the first time I've patted with you guys. So I'm very happy to be yeah I know I know how was that drive up by 95 Mmm, it's a little quiet You know get some interesting billboards spread out throughout rural, Georgia. It's always my favorite interesting billboards spread out throughout rural Georgia. It's always my favorite. Had one in particular asking me if I was going to heaven or

hell. I could dial like 83 something. So, you know, lots of roadkill, lots of unsettling signs, but we made it safe and sound. Perfect. Good to hear that. If you get an answer to that question, heaven or hell, please let us know. Keep us up to date on that. Are there any an answer to that question, heaven or hell, please let us know. Keep us up to date on that.

Are there any Buc-E's on 95 yet? Not the way I went. Well, that's a- Southward, yeah, southbound. That's true. I guess you could have flipped it around, but you know, I'm happy that you got there. Do you know what my favorite thing about Buc-E's though,

is by far they have like the best crushed ice. You got crushed ice, you want to hold onto it for a long time. Do you know what? That's where our sponsor, the presenting sponsor of all LPGA content for us comes from and that is our friends at Yeti. We love Yeti. Big thank you to them, of course, for sponsoring all of our LPGA podcasts this year. No one makes luggage, hard coolers,

soft coolers, drinkware, you name it. They do it all and it's truly the best. Their products perform when it matters most. Everybody, please head over to Yeti.com for their complete product line and more. Plus they got content there. They got podcasts. You can check out their ambassadors, everything else and a lot more. Yeti coming into golf, both men's and women's this year. I'm very, very excited about that as they announced their partnership with the caddy network a couple of weeks ago. And you know, they're going to set us up, get us a little bit more access to some player caddies. We got good things coming. So thanks of course to Yeti. Biggie, do we need to talk about Phoenix again?

I don't think we need to talk about Phoenix. Guys, Nelly Korda can't stop winning. If you want to hear some more thoughts from Cody and myself, check out last Sunday's recap pod. We spend a lot of time talking about Nelly and some interesting parallels with Scotty Scheffler, yada, yada, yada. But yeah, since last time we've done an LPGA specific pod, Nelly won in Palace Verde's, she clipped Ryan O'Toole in a playoff.

That was an excellent event. It got extremely spicy on the weekend at Palace Verde's. The wind was up. It's already a quirky course. I thought it was an excellent tournament. And then fast forward to the new Ford Championship down at Seville Golf and Country Club outside of Phoenix. And Nellie wins there. She shoots a final round 65 again in some some questionable conditions. A lot of rain and she's showing you know she's not just a

dome golfer which is awesome to see. Guys, I guess my question, Cody, I'll start with you. Given what we see now from Nellie Korda, what are your expectations, not even expectations, what are your hopes for her this year? How great of a season can she have? See, you're Nell're an Ellie. I beg you told me that I was wrong for saying that. I couldn't. I don't think I actually said that Cody. I don't think I actually said that we one of these episodes. We're going to have the tapes.

We're going to play the receipts. The good thing I have this. I mean, I don't know if it was you might have been TC or something. It might have been our associate Tron Carter. For sure. I was very bullish because I think that she was so close last year so many times. And I think the one thing that she absolutely had to get figured out and that was her putting. And she seems to have completely made that change.

She switched putting coaches at the end of last year and it's kind of revolutionized her game. She's a complete product again. And when Nellie is healthy, when she's putting well and she has the power that she has and her ball striking, there's not a lot of people that can stop her. I mean, I think what we're seeing is it for this season, as we've started so far, if Nellie does not win a major, it is going to be a major, major disappointment. not win a major, it is going to be a major, major disappointment. But also I can foresee her keeping this run on and we could be looking at, you know, six, seven, eight

individual titles, which I think is something that is not crazy for me to say. I agree with you. I know. Jordan, what do you think? I mean, do you have Nelly winning all five majors? Talk to me about what you see coming the rest of this year. Guys, I barely had Nelly winning anything but one title this year. So am I feeling extremely foolish? Sure. But I'm all aboard the Nelly train now. And who couldn't be at this point? I think if Nelly doesn't win a major, right, it certainly will be somewhat of a disappointment. I mean, she's the best player in the world right now and it isn't even close. On the women's side, thinking about the Scottie comps and all, but she's still better than Scottie, respective to being on the women's side.

And so I just look, yeah, she needs to get a major this year, but right now, if the year ended right now and it ended this way, having won three times, not much you could take away from her. She's earned it. She's just done such an about face on her game and she escaped her putting lows. And Scottie needs to take some notes, okay? It's all good.

Yeah, we talked about that in the last recap of, I wonder if they talk about things like that and pondering the what-coulds and could-bes and maybes and my, and I'm knowing, like being a complete realist about this, I doubt that that is happening after thinking on it a little bit more, but it honestly, it should, or at least,

Scotty has some of the best instructors in the world, but sometimes maybe just need a different look at things. And you know, this is a LPGA podcast, but I don't think that the temporary bandaid of going to a mallet isn't actually like going to fix the issues in his stroke. Nellie fixed the issues in her putting stroke. She is and not temporarily like obviously now this is her third win. This these are things are are stuck in motion and I'm just really really excited especially because match play. I think this is a lot going three weeks on the road and I know that she

she had that you have seven-week break, which was awesome for her got to spend a ton of time with family and everything. But went in two weeks in a row, being on the road for her third week in a row into it's a demanding tournament. Match play is Wednesday on. They don't get that extra day of practice or really rest for her.

And she talked about yesterday in her press conference of like, how are you kind of going to relax and be able to reset in order to be prepared for match play? She's like, I don't know. We have a five hour drive. I'm like, Nelly, you have like a Delta partnership. Like, why are you guys driving? Why are you driving and getting into Vegas at like two, three in the morning?

I understand that you got hooked up at, I'm sure, a very nice MGM bed somewhere, but today is her only day to see the course because tomorrow they're right into a Pro-Am. So instead of Pro-Ams on Wednesdays, now Pro-Ams on Tuesdays because they're starting play and it's not just straight up match play, big, it's a new format. It is a new format and it's one that I love. I love that the LPGA and

Shadow Creek and T-Mobile and MGM and everybody associated with this tournament is willing to try this tournament is willing to try new things. So what the format is this year, it's a 96 woman field. Everybody tees off Wednesday. Everybody's guaranteed two rounds of stroke play. They're gonna cut the field down to 36 after the second round, so after Thursday. And then the top eight after Friday are going to advance into match play this weekend. So you have to play good golf on your own ball. You know, every shot counts for three rounds. And then we get to see, you know, the the the best eight players this week decide who's who's the best amongst them. And I it's a format that I'm very curious to see on paper. I love it.

And I think Shadow Creek is such a perfect host venue for this type of format, because one, it looks spectacular on television, right? It's one of those manicured, yeah, C-suite courses anywhere. But a lot of their holes, yeah but a lot of their holes. Yeah. A lot of the holes are, are risk reward. There, there are some really funky greens. You know, I think of the par three 17th specifically women have made big numbers there in the past

and that's never been an issue in match play, but these first three rounds of stroke play, I mean, I am just so fascinated what some of these scores are going to be. And I can't wait to see who the last eight standing are and let's play it off. So I don't know. Do you guys agree with the format changes? Do you like it or do we not like it? I love it. People are probably going to have some nightmares from the US Women's Am a little bit because it's so reminiscent of that. That's fun. It's like you're fighting to make that match play and that tension.

I like the half and half because you're watching a player get tested in two different ways. To me, that really proves what the best benchmark is for a champion. Yeah I agree I think this format change is amazing I think it's going to be like absolute incredible viewing on Friday afternoon slash evening watching this playoff it's it honestly made me think of like yo you know we have cuts in almost every professional event that there is. Why is there not a playoff for the like, why isn't there just like a standing 60 people are making the cut. All right.

So if there is a tie, wherever it is, those people that are ties, they're not all coming in or it's not that cut line is not moving around. Why aren't those guys playing off every Friday? Think of how cool that would be for TV viewership for everything else like out there people truly playing for for their paycheck for to be true like on the line because I think in today's modern-day golf where it's just automatic you know paychecks of wherever you rock up you're getting it paid there's got to be a little bit more teeth in there.

And that's what I'm excited for this to show big. I am too. So just so folks have the TV Times Golf Channel and Peacock have coverage every day, 6 to 9 PM Eastern. So our friends on the Eastern seaboard, it's good prime time golf. Let me ask you guys this, with an expanded field up to 96 names, there's certainly more of a chance

that final eight for match play, you might have some names in there that aren't quote unquote household names. Is that okay? I know it's a risk we always run with match play. Will there be reason to be discouraged if we don't have many of those marquee names in the final eight come the weekend? What do you think, Cody? I think this format is perfect for people who are hot.

They're riding the hot putter, whatever it is in their game, and that big names might not matter because if you look at the LPGA, they're riding the hot putter, whatever it is in their game, and that big names might not matter. Because if you look at the LPGA, they're kind of separating themselves, right? I think right now you could say that there's almost this, you have Nellie on top, and then you have like the top 10. And the top 10, or what I would say is, if people are saying that they're not household names,

they probably need to watch a little bit more of women's coverage. And then from 10 on, there's this kind of like this gap and you have all these floaters in there that tomorrow could be the next Lilia Vu of last year, who just goes on this incredible streak. You had Lauren, our young hitter yesterday, and this weekend, absolutely having a dynamite weekend.

And if it's something that one of them can ride the momentum, match play is perfect for that. And an eight person match play bracket is even better. Yeah, Jordan, you mentioned the US AM, this will give everybody flashbacks to that. I assume you like the format, right? It won't quite matter who's left in that final eight come Saturday. I love it.

And it gives you a chance to identify, you know, the makings of potential killers. And I, if you can dominate this format, I mean, chances are you're going to be dominating at some point for the rest of the season. You know, if you're eligible for the Solheim Cup, that's a very good indicator for success there too. And so, yeah, I think this format is going to show a lot. And I think it's fine if someone, the winner ultimate or the final eight end up being, you know, some newer faces, some unknown names. It's a nice way to introduce, quite frankly, the women's game has had some great momentum I think a week like this where it's able to platform some rising stars or you know Someone who's been searching for that win for a long time. Whoever it might be maybe is

Is great. It's still positive. Yeah, I agree with you guys. I think one thing that We saw with past match play, you know when you just get right into it, you could have people advance in match play. They didn't necessarily win their match. It was the other person played so shitty they lost the match. And vice versa. We would have matches where, you know, somebody won shooting like eight under on their ball and somebody lost shooting six or seven under on their ball. And that's, you know, that's kind of a shame because somebody that's playing really good golf is getting eliminated early in the week. And so I just love that, you know, hey, at least for this week,

we're gonna have the people playing, the eight women playing the best golf, and we're gonna get to see them compete against each other in the match play portion. So yeah, I'm super excited. I was again, I love seeing the LPGA make a change like this and try something new. I think that's something what we've been calling for, not only in like their match play formats, but across the board, right? Operationally, the more chances, the more they can try new things, I just truly believe they're gonna stumble

on some really good stuff. And so I wanted to shout that out as an example of like, hey, they're willing to kind of make a radical departure from the match play that we've always seen on the PGA Tour and even the match play that we've seen up until this point on the LPGA Tour. So kudos to them. Let me ask you this, Jordan, I'm going to put you on a spot. Who do you like winning the match play this week? Got it. I like Alison Lee. I think Alison Lee is my pick.

You know, I really like that pick. Doesn't she have like an MGM partnership too? I feel like she's somebody who spends a lot of time in Vegas. Might be a potential home game situation for her. I'm sure she's familiar with Shadow Creek. I like that. You know, I was thinking somebody, a rookie we've talked very highly about. She's had a great start to this year. She got that dog in her.

I think Gabby Ruffles? Oh, God, that's a great start to this year. She got that dog in her, I think. Gabby Ruffles? Oh God, that's a great pick. Yeah. It's a great one. Wasn't Gabby, I truly like, match play is so awesome and it's so hard not to think of International Crown, Solheim Cup, everything else. But we've kind of been waiting for like, what's going on with Lynn?

And from the last time that we talked about Lynn on podcasts, a friend of the program reached out and was like, hey, you guys used to hit like a, basically a predominantly right to left ball flight. And for some reason, they decided to switch that this winter. And now she like only wants to hit fades. And they're trying to groove it in. And I guess she's shown really good signs, but I think somebody like you would love to see a Lynn jump out and take this. You know, so if it's not going to be, it's not Gabby for me, sign me up for Lynn. You know, who's on the entry list and it would be her season debut as Angel Yin.

She has been battling an injury. I'm hopeful that she will indeed be playing. She's certainly not my pick to win, but would be awesome to see her back. Lynn's a great pick. I'm going to go with Celine Boudier though. I'm going to take the French woman. I don't have much good reason why I'm taking her, but Nellie Corda will be playing. She'll be going for her fourth win of the year and her third in three weeks. If anything, you know, listening to some of the quotes from Scotty Scheffler this past week, when he tried to win for the third straight time, it's exhausting. So as much as I would like to pick Nellie, I just think this week's probably going to be just a bit

too much and a culmination of what have been really stressful weeks already. So I'm not expecting Nellie to win. If she were to win, that would be even more freaking impressive. And then thankfully all the women, well, unless they really like to play the week before a major, after match play, everybody gets a week off. It'll of course be Masters week, all the golf world turns to that. And then they come back with the first major of the year in Houston at the Chevron championship the week after that. So this will be the last chance to see a lot of these

women before we see him at the first major. So I'm excited about that as well. Randy, who's gonna win the Chevron? I have no idea. So I'm excited about that as well. Randy, who's gonna win the Chevron? I have no idea. Do I have to pick somebody right now? I might. Yes, that's why I asked the question. I wanna know where you're at.

Gut check, where you at right now? Because the fact that you didn't say Nellie already is kind of shocking to me. I mean, she took third last year. She had kind of a bad final round. Really, they were, I mean, I know Lillia had a kind of a bad final round really they were I mean I know Lillia had a she ended up winning but really it was Angel and Nellie was trying to chase down Angel and then when Angel kind of had her woes on that final day you know this VU is there to be there and pick it

up and we everybody kind of expected Nellie to do that I just don't know your hesitation here and not immediately saying Nelly. Well, it's too obvious and I guess wanting to be contrarian. You know the other person that was in my mind and it's not contrarian, but would be like a Lydia Ko and what style it would be to win a major, gain entry into the Hall of Fame. I mean, Lydia's played some pretty good golf this year. Gun to my head if I had to like bet my life savings on it, I would take Nellie at Chevron for sure. Jordan? I think Angel's gonna do it.

I think she's gonna do it. If that's a lot of pressure, you're putting it on rest and not rehab. But she's taking much better care of herself. And I think she's very aware of her limits, and she's learned a lot from last year. I just got a good feeling. I think arrested up Angelian is dangerous.

I agree with you that arrested Angel is dangerous wherever you might stumble upon her at. And I hope it's Chevron. I mean, last year, so many things were going right, and then it just was like, oh no, this is potentially gonna happen. Now she would be an amazing major champion, and so good for the game overall. Her personality is absolutely awesome.

It's just shocking, guys. I just don't know how you wouldn't pick Nelly. I'm trying, I was thinking through the majors this year too. And we talk about Lancaster and Sahale and the old course and Evian and I'm like trying to think of like, what? Well, course doesn't really like suit somebody who hits the ball a long ways. Like it's really good with their irons and now can putt.

And- Cody, I appreciate you staking your claim and Nellie right here right now for all the major. Well, not for all of them. It's just like, I'm trying to, when I was thinking of Chevron, before I was gonna make this bold prediction of picking somebody who's, you know,

won three times already this year, I don't think it's that bold of a pick. It's just, I was trying to like talk myself out of it. And I'm just like, where's, where am I gonna talk myself out of it at? I'm totally with you. I think that's the thing with Nellie is her floor is so high. And you're exactly right, Cody,

in that we saw that last year at Chevron. Like she, her ball striking is going to put her in and around the front page of the leaderboard. And then it's just a matter of, you know, does she get the putster drop? Does she you know, how dialed is she with the wedges, etc, etc. But she just has such a high floor, where every venue every week is like, Oh, yeah, this should suit her, you know, like she's she's she's gonna have a chance. The other thing that I thought of thinking back on the end of

the Ford Championship to is who started that day with the lead and who held that lead through like the first six or seven holes. And that was Hojo Kim. And she is such a steady, like doesn't give anything up player. And I, it was such a shocking final round from her. And then you go back and look at the numbers and I'm like, Oh, she, she only shot, she saw 71 and still finished at 1600. And where did like Nelly come from putting this final round 65 together to just leapfrog all of them. And it was the

first time and we've we joked about in the past of Nellie's kind of similarities to a Hallmore Cowan. We used to think that she was kind of this dome golfer. Well, she's proven it the last two weeks, the last two events that it doesn't matter what weather conditions, turf, you name it. she's, she's got it. Yeah, I'm, I'm right there with you. I think that's what makes it so exciting is like, this is what I think we've all wanted to see out of Nelly and like it really might be happening right now. This like step up to somebody that could,

I'm not saying she will, but certainly could be dominating the women's game throughout this year. I think that's, I don't know, that's just exciting. Big, I think it's time to pay some bills. Hold on, hold on, real quick, before we have to pay some bills, if you're keeping Squared at home, by my math, the following

out of the current Rolex top 10 will not be participating in Las Vegas. Lilia Vu will not be there. She's had some, like, is she going through a little bit of injury stuff again? Does anybody know for sure? I think she is. I'm trying to remember what Grant, friend of the program, Grant Boone told me something about her. I'll double check real quick. Okay, so it's a shame we're not going to see Lilia this week. and Charlie Hall will not be there. Oh, excuse me.

And then also number 10, Jiuling will not be there. So missing some of the current top 10, but like we said, Nellie will be there. Celine Boudier, Minji Lee, we get to see. Lydia Ko. So we're still going to have a great field. And let's hope that, you know, amongst that, finally we get some some exciting names. Some quick news and notes, Cody, while you're checking on that Lilia Vu news, I just wanted

to say if anybody missed it, Soyeon Roo has announced that Chevron will be her last event. She is retiring. She's a two time major winner, just one of the nicest personalities out on a tour. That's that's filled with a lot of really good people. So that'll be something we can talk about come Chevron week. And then the Cincinnati tournament found a home. This was one that for the last two years, Kenwood country club. Yeah.

They've announced that TPC rivers bend, which is north of the city is going to be the new venue at least this year. And honestly, I think it'd be a great venue year in and year out if they wanna kind of move it every now and again to some one-off locations around Southwest Ohio. That would be cool, but I'm glad the Cincinnati tournament, you guys know that's near and dear to my heart. I'm glad they have a venue.

I'm just hoping that really takes root and becomes a, you know, I'm glad they have a venue. I'm just hoping that really takes root and becomes a you know a tournament that can build a legacy so Shout out to the King and Arnie Parmy design Yeah, yeah and and of course I've actually never been to and I've never played for how long it's been in Cincinnati and for how much time I've spent Cincinnati so former host of the Kroger Classic on the PGA tour from 2002 to 2004 and then went to

the Chiquita Classic from 2010 to 2012. Yeah. So those would have been, God, I already forget what it is, corn fairy now, but whatever it used to be. Yeah. And I've seen the people in Ohio in with a big banana. I know you guys like your... That's Uncle Carl Lindner. Yeah, that's Uncle Carl. We could... God, that's a whole other podcast talking about Shakita. But... So I found something on Lilia real quick. So during the Asian swing, she actually ended up

with drawing two weeks in a row. She was over in Asia and she was struggling the back injury, the same thing that kind of set, sign lined her post Chevron and international crown last year. So she ended up withdrawing from HSBC and then the China event, Blue Bay LPGA, but she did play the last two weeks. She played in LA and then she played in Arizona. She did play the last two weeks. She played in LA and then she played in Arizona. Now I would say that this is a, I know nothing of if the injury is still there, but just

looking at it scheduling wise, I don't think that she gains anything going in and playing guaranteeing herself three days of stroke play and then whatever happens on the weekend for match play getting only a single week off. I wouldn't be surprised if we see her kind of start to take these two week breaks just with the amount of travel and everything that they have coming up. So there's nothing pointing that says that she's potentially going to be out of Chevron and defending her title, but that's just kind of what I see at least from looking at the schedule Gotcha. You know who else is battling an injury and I'm ashamed that we've kind of just glossed over it is

It's Ataia Titecum, which I didn't really put two and two together until right now She was she's been diagnosed back in February with like this tendon issue in her left thumb And I guess doctors told her to sit six to eight weeks. She has not played on the LPGA tour this year, and she's not entered in Las Vegas. So I don't know if we'll see her at Chevron. I certainly hope we do. But yeah, that's an absence. The way she played last year and being 21 years old, that was somebody that we thought was going to have a monster year.

So I hate that she's dealing with an injury right now as well. Yeah. I'm looking at a golf week article here that Bethann wrote at the end of February that said that she was planning on returning back to the tour late March. Obviously, that's not the case. Yeah, she planned on returning to action for the four championship and she wasn't there. She's not in the field this week. So I don't know, maybe just giving herself an extra couple of weeks.

And hopefully we see her in Houston. I know. Hopefully. Yeah. All right, Cody, we have any more bills to pay? Yeah. You want to talk about golf clubs? I'd love to.

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Augusta National Women's Amateur. That's what we like to hear. We're finally going to Augusta, Women's Amateur. That's what we'd like to hear. We're finally going to Augusta. It's spring in the South. Let's talk a little high level women's amateur golf. What do we got, Jordan? Guys, I wish I had put that little piece of factoid in my trivia.

That would have been awesome. I know, I think I would have maybe gotten one of the questions right. I'm worried I might be blanked otherwise. Yeah so best week of the year is here as I mentioned earlier. It is the Anwah, the Anwah guys not the Anwah, the Anwah. You guys have me saying Anwah mentally in my head and I catch myself and I'm like, no, it's Anwa, it's Anwa, Anwa, Anwa and I think I'm ruined now. I'm ruined now. I don't know who started Anwa between either one of you, but I'm a little upset. Anyway. I think, well, I think the green jackets need to make an official declaration on what it

is. I've never heard officially whether it's supposed to be Anwah or Anwah because I think both are perfectly acceptable pronunciations. I think I'm going to get some clarification on this and I will report back. That's some good reporting Jordan. Yeah. That's some good reporting. Yeah. Yeah. I want an answer too. I'm going with Anwah. I think it's Anwah. Anyway, moving on. Let me jump in JP for real quick. You're going with Anwalt. I think it's Anwalt. Anyway, moving on. Let me jump in, JP, for real quick. You're on the grounds this week. What's the plan? I know you want to do some writing, but what also have you written? Tell the people what you've been working on the last several months.

Oh yeah. So, last few months I've been working on a profile on Amari Avery and I'm really excited for it to come out. We were just about to tie the bow on it and put it out for the world. Yeah, Amari has been someone I've been covering for a few years and I've always been really captivated by it, just as a player but as a person too. I kind of went into this thinking a lot of her story had kind of been left untold and wanting to kind of dig into like the value of her going to college instead of turning professional and what that did for her.

And I learned that the past two years of Amari Avery's life spent in college have really shown more about her than any Netflix documentary or any previous coverage did in her entire life. And it was so fun to really dig into that. And just a culmination of having watched her at the Curtis Cup a few years ago, having watched her at the US Women's Open last year, I started seeing like a lot of connected tissue

in terms of the person she was becoming and just this kindhearted, fearless woman who was able to grow into her own and redefine her why and understand the reason that she played golf because a lot of it is still the same as when she was a kid, but a lot of it is different as well. And so that was a really fun story to write. I'm excited for it to be out there. Hope the people like it. It was a really fun story to write. I'm excited for it to be out there. Hope the people like it.

It was a fantastic read. I think I'll lead with that there. For people who haven't checked it out, please, it'll be up on our website. I think my question is, since you started really following golf and taking it seriously as like putting your big J journalist hat on. Why was it Amari? Because even before you pitched this idea, it was always something. And I know you've said that you've been fascinated with kind of her development and everything else like that, but were these seeds that were planted early on? Did, obviously, Netflix had a lot of her, you know, exposure to the rest of the world,

but where is this? Are there similarities between the two that you guys are, you're kind of searching for or what is it? Trying to get you to breathe a little bit more here, Jordan. Between her and the Netflix persona is what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. There's still a little bit of that firepower to her, but it's manifested in different ways. She's matured a lot. Her game has only really gotten better, but she's seen a lot of highs and lows to get there. I think what's the most fascinating part of all this, and I think just to me, there's just a lot of really cool components, but I think having been under such intense scrutiny and having been considered

probably the most polarizing part of that documentary in terms of the tension between her and her father and working to win US Kids and how much time and devotion and energy she put into that. I think watching her grow up and be not only just so graceful, but just so intelligent and still so dedicated to golf and not losing sight of what she actually wanted. And again, just redefining what that meant to her and why she wanted it and why she was putting all this time into it.

Because there's a lot of people that play this game, especially at the amateur game, and even at this level that they put all this time, but they don't really understand their why, they're just in it because they put all this time into it. They're like, well, hey, might as well keep the train going. For Amari, it's a real sincere love for golf. That was cool because it's hard. I mean, growing up in the spotlight and having people kind of conflate who you are as a 20-year-old versus you at nine years old, that's a tough thing to break out of. And so for me, I was like, well, who's that 20-year-old?

I want to know. I think you did an awesome job of... There's obviously, for people who are familiar with her from the Netflix show, there is a very powerful relationship between her and her father. And I think when you talk about somebody being thrusted onto the spotlight that early, like, you know, Mario was probably like, Yeah, I love playing golf. And I love going to these tournaments. But like, she probably didn't have the choice or say in, do

you want your story blasted? Do you want to be called tigress and be like these huge lofty comparisons? And now it's so awesome to see her take control of like her life and figure out how she wants to go about things, but still have like seemingly really good relationship like with everybody around her. Like there's, it doesn't seem to be like crazy bitterness, resentment, or anything else like that that you see happen with a lot of people, younger people, when they're thrusting into the spotlight like that? It can be so easy to end up, right,

having that bitterness, having that resentment, and that translating into everything, and seeing her and just the way that she's developed, I think, was just, it's just powerful. I don't know, I'm really excited for this to be out there. I don't wanna spoil it too much, but there's some really cool, poignant moments and aspects of it that I thought really showed a lot of awesome character development on her end.

It was fantastic work. Would point everybody towards NoLayingUp.com. You can find Jordan's piece. Great reporting. Jordan, very happy that you can be with us and working on projects like that. So kudos to you. As we look forward to Anwad though,

we'll give you Amari Avery as one name to watch. I know you're also writing about, you know, some names to watch this week, but I don't know. Let's talk about maybe your five other favorite names that you're curious to see this week. This is an interesting ad law because we're in a bit, we're navigating a few things. We're navigating the post-Rozang era,

which kind of took the world by storm. We do not have the, I put in quotes, defending champion because she's not defending anything. She's gone. She's out of here. Roseanne, not defending a title. So we have empty podium for someone to come in here and snatch it and take it for themselves. And I think that's great. We only have one returning champion this year, and that is Anna Davis. We previously had Subhasa Kajatani in the field, but she withdrew last week. So it will only be Anna Davis as a returning champion. And just kind of thinking on some names in navigating this post-Frozen era,

it's interesting. So we look at the best player in the world right now and that's Ingrid Midlidblad and it's well deserved. She's had an incredible college career. She's won 14 times, one last week, one Stage 2 Q School last year and still elected to stay amateur. Has really loved the amateur game and has been vying for some of these big name titles. I think it's hard to compare Ingrid and Rose's dominance because Ingrid's has been spread out over the past five years, whereas Rose was contained in two, three more or less, if you count a little bit before her college career. I think they're dominant in two different ways.

This course did bring the best and worst out of, or I'm sorry, these two courses brought the best and worst out of Rose Zhang. But it's done the same for Ingrid Lidblad. And I think that's going to serve her extremely well. She kind of mentioned last, last week in like a pre-tournament process, she was like, yeah, like, you know, I wasn't playing bad last year necessarily. It just, I just didn't have it like, and I remember she was very emotional when she didn't make the cut last year necessarily, I just didn't have it. I remember she was very emotional when she didn't make the cut last year. She was just really, really beside herself. It really beat her up. She bounced back and she kept plugging along for the rest of this LSU

season and has played great. I think that kind of resilience is going to serve her well. Yes, it's so easy to default to the best player in the world, but hard not to give Ingrid Lindblad her flowers. I mean, she's done phenomenal. Just sustained greatness, truly. Can every ounce of her game, I feel like, is really sets up well for Augusta. I mean, she's almost done it before, guys. Like, I just, she's just as a- She's really good. Yes, I've, look, I've, Lord, I cannot find the words, but she's just, wow, that number one ranking

is well deserved. And she's your high LSU pick, because there's not a lot of mention of somebody who should have won this event before, and that's Latana. Latana, yeah. Latana, and Latana still sustained some pretty good play. She had that incredible US Women's Zam run last fall. Is also someone you should look out for.

It's in this field. I think this will most likely be her last online. But someone else who has a great game for online whose games only getting better. What's interesting, guys, I want to point something out here. Our best players in the world aren't really Americans. Things have changed a lot in the past year. We've had and I kind of want to contextualize this. When we're navigating the post rosing era

as we're doing this all together. It's interesting. We're trying to usher in this kind of like new generation of great Americans because we're in a Curtis Cup year. We're still kind of figuring out who that is, who's exactly the dominant person, what's there. And the best Americans right now, they're very good, but they're still relatively new to like this scene in a sense. So we've got, I'll just point some of them out and I, because I do think they are names that we should be considering, even though they don't even land in the top five. Like the best American right now is number seven on Wagga, Megan Scoffle, who won the

US women's am Women's Am. Who's great, but then you jump to 10, Zoe Campos, who I feel like probably should be ranked higher. I mean, she's just been flat out amazing this college season. She already won twice this spring. Insane, so good. I'll point out the top five, top five Americans. We'll keep it to that.

So it was Megan Scoffle Zoe Campos Amanda Sandbach from Virginia Rachel Keene who? Might we might know from previous and was Curtis cups. Yeah, and Anna D. Netflix Don't forget about you know Baby fits his girlfriend. Well, baby fits his girlfriend. Yeah. Well, no, we're not going to label her with that. She's greatness all around. She's amazing.

She's awesome. Yeah. And then Anna Davis, past champion. So it's interesting when we look at that and we look right into the Curtis Cove year, which is in September, and we think of qualifying. And this is one of the biggest litmus tests all year because it's this and NCAAs if you play NCAA golf, which all of these women do. And then you have the US Women's Am. And I think whoever wins this, I think should by default get an invite. I think Wagga is going to keep them there anyway because well, we'll get

to why that that will be the case in our trivia but let's get out of stateside a little bit let's get out of there let's go international because that's where it's really happening guys that is where the killers are okay some names that I think we need to keep a close eye on Julia Lopez Ramirez from Mississippi State is the goods, guys. So good. Jordan, I don't want to group all these together. No.

Just looking at international, specifically players that are finishing up or getting close to finishing up their amateur playing days, which we would assume that a majority of them are going to turn professional and try to play. In the next four to six years, the United States Skolheim Cup team is in a lot of trouble. And we talk a lot on this podcast about the Swedes that are coming, but out of nowhere, where did all these Spaniards come from? Because obviously, Julia Lopez Ramirez is probably leading the block. But like going down, not only Wager, but results so far in college, it's truly phenomenal. And Spanish golf has just kind of burst onto the scene, like an actual powerhouse.

They have four or five, I think, in the top 20 in the world right now. It's truly amazing to see. They are taken over. They're all over the SEC. They are funneling into the dying Pac-12. I mean, they are just... It's a valid question, Cody. In terms of the context of the Solarheim Cup, I always think Curtis Cup, and it's like there's

no room for them on the Curtis Cup, which is so infuriating because they are some of the best players in the world. And if we were really testing the best players in the world, they would be competing head to head, but that's a rant for another day. What was interesting, one particular player that stuck out to me, she's not in the top 20, she's just outside. But I got a chance to go to the Meadow Club Collegiate

a few weeks ago up in San Francisco. And I got to watch Paula Martin San Pedro. And oh my gosh, she is a flusher. She's so good. It was interesting because the day that I watched her she was having some trouble with her putter but she hold out for me for eagle from a bunker and I was like girl no like love her. She's at Stanford for a reason guys. Not only at Stanford but like like, you know, defending team national champions, you know, Rose obviously was individual, coming in with an actual stacked roster,

and Paula as a true freshman is far and away their number one player. Yeah. It's crazy to see. Yeah, she is going to kind of carry that torch, especially as they go into their postseason and whatnot. Her and Sadie Engelman specifically, I think, are the best players on that team. But focusing, yeah, on this Spanish contingent, I mean, if you have an Anwalt pick, if you

don't have an Anwalt pick yet, you should kind of lean this way, truly. Because, and especially Stanford. Stanford on that front, in terms of recruiting. They're picking up the Spaniards and the Swedes they and Walker Doing the work. She knows what a felon is Recruiting goddess. Yes. All right, who else you got for us? Who else do I need to watch? Well, we talked enough about Amari. We talked a lot about Amari and I did get to watch her at Meadow Club So that was kind of the last tournament that she played before she played in law. And I have to say the game is looking really good. Very good, hitting the ball really well.

She's had a lot of trouble with her putter over the years. Putter looked great. Just making all the putts possible. Feels like she's primed to make some noise. And she's contended at this championship before. That's great news. She plays a game that really contrasts from a lot of the players in this field. I mean, I was watching her at Meadow Club and she was like,

sitting and waiting on par fives for people like, all right, you guys done? Whatever. She's really got the game, I think, to contend again this year, when she struggled a lot last year. And thinking just in the context of, you know, some players that we've seen, generally speaking, play well. Maria Jose Marin from Columbia, she's really good. She made the cut last year. She's dominated the college scene as a freshman.

She's one to keep an eye on. Gianna Clement is always meant for bigger moments, I feel. She always rises up to the task. I remember I spoke to her after she played Anwar last year and she reflected on it a lot and she felt kind of, I don't want to say she was obsessed with Anwar, but she had kind of taken it all in so much. It was like, I modeled the way that I play my game.

She basically was saying like she modeled the way that she got better at the game off of what she did at Anwa. So someone who's talking like that is trying to win one of these things. Gianna Clement, for sure. There's another 15 year old out there too that's about to make her Anwa debut. A young American, not on very many lists, but did just win the junior invitational at Sage Valley, Asterix Talley. I mean, it seems

like everything that we got very, very excited. Talking about Gianna Clemente last year, I mean, Asterix is just kind of filling in right there and being like, okay, if you're gonna do it, I'm gonna do it too. Like, let's go figure this world out together. Sage Valley and on will have some good overlap too. As Anna Davis previously went to Sage Valley as well. It's crazy to me, you know, we've just hearing you talk, but there are so many, what I would consider like big names in this Anwar field that, you know, we might not even met like

somebody like Meghagane, right? That most of us remember for that amazing US Open she had several years ago. She's in the field. You have Ayanna Wilson, who is incredible. Like, this is, Jordan, this has to be like every year, this field just has to get deeper and deeper, right? I would imagine this year is no exception. I think on the international side, it's gotten a lot deeper. I wouldn't say on the American side.

Now, that kind of gets into a different debate with how Waggoner plays different events and whatnot. But I would say on the international side, it surely is the strongest that I've ever seen it. On the American side, it's gotten a little bit weaker. And so I think they need to step up to the plate. So if the Americans want to make a statement, especially going into a Curtis Cup here and at large, Solheim Cup implications, someone's got to win this. But we'll see.

Yeah, for sure. Probably the last event or time that we'll see Jensen Castle, I'm trying to think who else Americans that have played in this kind of year over year. Obviously, Rachel Heck, it'll be, unless there's some form of different exemption going on, but I know Jensen probably going to turn professional. She played in Q school last year. Anna Morgan in the same boat, you know, done with college, went to Q school last year, didn't end up making it, but they eventually will turn, turn professional. One person, Biggie, you're going to recognize his name, Charlotte Heath. I don't know if you remember following her around last year.

I do. Yeah. Excited to see her. It's crazy. You're right. The international players that are in this field now, it's so cool to see. It's so awesome to see the depth of this. And I remember talking about this event in years past and being like, well, like the bottom of it, how did they really get in here? There's a lot of crazy picks and everything. And that's not really the case anymore. Like these are all hitters only. No, I mean, that's, that's what I think I was going at. I, you know, somebody like just to pull a name like Anna Morgan, Anna Morgan,

somebody that I know, right. And I'm not like super into amateur golf, but I've seen her a few years now. Bailey Shoemaker, right? This will be her third event. On the international side, Ayla Golitsky is a super talented teenager from Thailand. Yeah, Thailand. Yeah.

I just feel like it's fun. And I think this is where ANWWA helps itself, right? The more you watch and you start to learn some of these names and then you see them for another year or two before they turn pro. I feel like that cycle is, we've had enough of them now to where it's fun. Like I'm starting to recognize so many names and I think that makes for a great event. Randy, I know you love your dark horses. Bailey Shoemaker would be a good one she's hitting the balls very well

right now. Yeah so all right Jordan before we all make pics and do all that you said you had some trivia for Cody and I yeah hit us with some trivia. I do guys okay so five years into this thing I think we've got enough history to do some trivia. The winner, I will send you an Anwalt Trinket. Oh, okay. You have my attention. That added some firepower to your neuron, I hope so. So let's get into it.

So my first question, we'll go with an easy one. In what year was the very first ANWWA contestant? Is this like 2019? The first? Go to here. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Yay, we tied.

Yeah. It's a trick question because they missed a year with COVID. No, it was 2019. No, I know. But this is the fifth ANWA this year, right? Yes. But it's still the first. Wait, what? Now you're confusing me.

19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24. This should be the sixth. But what I'm saying is because of COVID, it's actually only the fifth. Yeah. Reminds me of that bodybuilding forum where the guy was arguing about how many days a week. Yeah. Days of the week.

Yeah. Yeah. There are actually eight days of the week. Okay. What's next? How many playoffs have there been for the Anwa title? One. Two.

Cody, you're right. Yeah. I think it was last year. And then of course, girl, Amelia lost to a Subasa, right? Yeah. Extra credit. I forgot last year. I forgot Rose was in a playoff.

Darn. Okay. Cody's up to nothing. How many past? Well, if you don't get this right, you were listening. How many past champions are in the field this year? One. Go ahead, Big. One.

All right, two, one. Anna Davis. Who is it? Okay, all right. Yeah. A close personal friend. Yeah. Which major championships will the winner be eligible for? Three of them.

Everything. Did you say which or how many? No, which one? So you said which. I thought I was gonna go with three as well for some reason I was like, oh. I figured that. Yeah.

I'm gonna go with one and I think it's the, is it the US women's open? So I know they're not eligible for KPMG because they don't have amateurs there, and we know Chevron because it's happening too close. Three possible. Actually, I'm going to take away. I think that was part of them moving away,

like the the A&A or Chevron. I'm going to guess one. I'm going to guess Evian. Come on, guys. It's four. Why did you say which that you leading us? Teacher, you're a bad teacher. Substitute teachers cheating. Mr. Big.

Nope. All right. So hold on. Hold on. Are they eligible for this year's Chevron or does it roll to 2025? As far as I read, it's this year's Chevron. Okay. Yeah, I guess I get a week off and then go to Houston. Okay. Somebody gets that one. He's up to one. The only one that they're not into, I'm guessing is KPMG women's.

Yep. So for anyone listening, US Women's Open, the 2024 Women's Open, Chevron, and Evian. Maybe the joke's on you because we're not, sometimes we don't recognize the Chevron and Evian as majors. Indeed. Don't, no, don't, don't, don't invalidate those at the end. That's right. Indeed. Don't invalidate those at the ANWL. That's low. All right, fifth question. How many lefties have won ANWL? One, Anna Davis. Correct.

Two, two. Aside from the United States, which is the second most represented country in Anma this year? I'm saying Japan. Lock it in. Spain. It is Japan. There are nine. Spain has eight.

That's a good guess, Cody. Good job, Rick. Took a 3-2 lead. Yeah. I want that trinket. All right, George, good job. Three to lead. Yeah, I want that trinket. All right, George, next question. Who holds the tournament record for the lowest

54 full score in Amwa history? We need a hint. I'm happy to give one. No, no hint. I'm going to guess. Jennifer Cupcho. Sebastian Kachatani. Randy, you are correct. Whoa! I remember her going low that first year.

All right. It's getting late. It's getting later. Where are you, Cody? 68, 71, 67. For 206. This should be the eighth question. This is the eighth question.

Who holds the record for the lowest 18 hole score on either course? That's a good question. I'm gonna go with Rose. Was it Rose last year, like that first round? Yes. It was? Yep.

Okay, good, I didn't even need to guess. Good one? Yep. Okay, good. I didn't even need to guess. Good one, Cody. Yep. 64. 4-3. Two to go. Cody needs both of them. This is close. I love this, guys. Let's go. Alright. Previously, Anwar would hold a playoff to determine the top 30 players who would play Augusta National in the final round. When was the final year of that? 2022. Last year.

2023. You're correct, Cody. Oh, God. Last year, they all brought whoever was on that number. Come on. That's what I mean. I thought that's what the question was asking. No, but last year, the last year that they played it

was 2022 like that. They changed it for the 2023 playing. Don't try to take this victory away from me. We're tied. Problematic question. Cody, just- All right, last one. You know what?

You both studied up. Like I'm really proud, but- Well, you had us nervous. Here's the last one. Here's the last one. Here's the last one for the trinket. The undetermined trinket. There are two past champions who have a lot of overlap. World number one, NCAA individual champions.

Name them. Rose and Jennifer. Thank you. I will give you my new address, Jordan. With the quickness. Whatever, whatever you're buying, make sure that you just invoice it back to him. So he's paying for it anyway. And they have a really good shipping setup at the

merchandise headquarters. You can charge that as well. Congratulations, Mr. Big. Yeah, for some reason, I was sitting there and I'm like Rose and Rose and and it just it didn't just didn't come. You're right. You always got a cup show on the brain. Big. I know. Yep. Yep. Guys, Denverite just like me. You guys crushed it. I'm so proud. Well, thank you. Quick pick to win.

Cody, who you got? Oh, there's a lot of directions we could go here. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to be one of the favorites. That's a lot of pressure on Ingrid. I wish she would, but I don't think it's really going to happen. I'm going to go with the freshman, Stanford freshman. I think her game is rounding into form. Everybody on the Stanford team just boasts about her and how competent she is, how level headed she is

at such a young age. That's Paula Martine San Pedro, which I'm very, very excited about. I think I'm gonna impress Jordan with my pick. Jordan, I would really like for you to be impressed with this. I think she's in fantastic form. And that's Scotland's Hannah Darling, my official pick to win. And I feel

really good about it. Hannah's a dog. I love that. I love that. It's the hardest question ever. I know. Yeah, I love that. Big while Jordan thinks about it, you're not concerned at all. I mean, she, this is going to be Hannah's third appearance here. The first year she made the cut, but did not play very good at Augusta national last year. Did not, didn't, didn't even make it over from champions. I know this is one of those things that you get more experience with time, but I mean,

it's gotta kind of be a concern there, especially at a. An event that has pretty good luck for first timers. Yeah, that is interesting. I w what outweighed that was I see that she won. Didn't she just win sage Valley? She won the Darius Rucker. Oh, the Darius Rucker. She won the Darius Rucker. I think she finished runner up also at like

the Valspar Augusta Invitational it says. She got into the Palace Verdes LPGA event a couple weeks ago. I just think she's playing really good golf and she's had some like winning experiences. She's played. I'm sure she was nervous at Palace Verde's. You know, she's played recently with great nerves. I like all that for going into this week. All right, Jordan, we got you some time. Who's going to win it this year? You know, Cody, you bought me time, but I was there just invested in Randy's explanation for why he was picking Hannah Darling.

Guys, I think I'm gonna go with Maria Jose. Like, her first year, she came out and she just absolutely dominated champions. I mean, she just looks so solid. She plays like someone who is five years her senior. She's got a lot of time left if she continues to remain an amateur. I mean, she's got a lot of time left playing these, but either way, if she doesn't win this year,

she's going to win one of them. So, Maria Jose Marin from Arkansas. All right. There you have it. Cody, we have a fun new partner joining us this week, don't we? That's right. We do. We want to welcome. I think we're making the formal announcement on the regular master's historical overview that Sallian KVV did, but that is Mizuho. Right. You guys might have heard of Mizuho before. They're the top global corporate and investment bank. They're a powerhouse in Japan, in the retail space retail space in America's are the fastest growing region for Mizuho globally. And it's only institutional business in the Americas. If you're an average golf watcher, you've probably seen a couple of their commercials, you're familiar with their brand ambassadors, specifically Michelle Wee West, she's featured in their title sponsor commercial of her and her caddy kind of goofing around

in the Mizzouho office space. It's awesome. They're also the title sponsor of the Mizzouho America's Open. This is going to be the second playing of it this year. That's May 16th through the 19th, the same week as the PGA championship. But last year, great champion in Rose Zhang making her professional debut. She will be there to defend her title, not only at Liberty National, but also as a Mizuho ambassador. Very, very excited about that. The Mizuho America's Open also features amateurs playing with the pros. They've increased that purse there to $3 million. They cover their accommodations. They got partner summits, girls summits, you name it, everything going on the girls summit in partnership

with Girls Inc. That's all about Mizuho. We're very, very excited to have them on. And this is our new Mizuho Winning Advice segment. We could not be happier about that. What it is is that, you know, we talked a lot about the players out there, the players that are doing obviously hitting the shots, making the putts, but it takes a team of people around them, and that's what Mizzouho is there for. They can be your team when you need it, if you need financial advice or anything else like that.

So to kick this off, I pulled up a little bit of footage talking about our newest LPGA champion, a woman, a newly minted aunt, who won back-to-back tournaments on the LPGA Tour, talking about the team around her, and then we're gonna discuss afterwards. I rolled that putt in on nine. I was one back and my caddy, actually, Jason told me that I was one back.

I didn't know. And that's when we kind of dialed in a little bit more, just made sure that we went through the process of every shot. And yeah, just played some really solid golf coming in, too. So to have done what you've done in the golf course the last three times, you've teed it up,

I mean, can you just put into words what it means to see this much of your hard work payoff and this much success this quick in the year? I think you're again, one of a handful of players to win before April 1st three times in a row, which is insane. Yeah, I mean, I'm out on the golf course, but I have a whole team behind me

that I couldn't have done them done it without them. When it comes to my family, the support system that I have with them and then when it comes to my team. I'm just the player but I have a whole group behind me that is helping me lead the way. And I think that I can't thank them enough and my success is their success. Guys, there's a lot to unpack there, but I think relatively speaking,

it's something that we rely on in our everyday lives too, but is there anything that stuck out to you from Nellie's answers there? I think, listen, I think what Nell's answers there? I think listen, I think what Nelly communicated there is something that we have heard or I have heard pretty much every professional golfer say at some point and I think it's something that often gets overlooked by folks at home. You know, you flip on your TV on Sunday and you're

watching whatever tournament it is. And it just seems very glamorous being a touring professional golfer. But what is hard to realize is just the grind of the lifestyle going from city to city. And just how impossible that would be to do that by yourself, right? To be like a singular isolated person having to do that. And so, yeah, you learn and Nellie said it perfectly there, like how important those people are that travel week to week and, you know, however many weeks a year you're on on the road you have to have people around you that you like you enjoy that

push you that challenge you that that lets you vent I mean I can't imagine being it just would seem impossible to be a professional golfer without a strong support system so I think it's no coincidence that the best golfers also have really good teams that work for them. And it's honestly nice to hear Nellie realize that in the moment and shout those people out. I thought it was really mature. It's interesting because-

Yeah, that's what stuck out to me too. I was like, oh man, yeah, good on you, doll. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because we looked back at Nellie last year and I think my biggest concern was that she's getting complacent with where she is in golf. I mean, she just kind of don't know if she's a killer. All those questions kind of came up.

And it's obvious the people that she has around her and who surround her week to week, day to day, haven't let her get that way. And that was the only way that she was going to come out and perform so strongly this year. And that sense of gratitude and selflessness on her part to make that acknowledgement, I thought was great. And I think that team is just a huge part of the recipe. And it's nice to see her give them her props. Yeah, it's not like the majority of the men's professional leagues that are out there, the women are not going to the nearest FBO and loading on their private jet.

They're truly caddy becomes not only everything that they provide on the course, but lead sandwich maker, chauffeur, designated driver at times. And the women are literally traveling the globe with them. And if they don't have this tight relationship and bond, and truly somebody that they can rely on for every facet of their life. You know, they, they'd kind of be lost. And it's awesome to hear somebody like Nellie, uh, you know, give kudos where kudos are due, but again, guys, thank you to Mizzouho. You find more information on them by visiting Mizzouhoamericas.com. Mr. Big. Yeah.

And I will say it's an excellent event up at Liberty National. It was a good event last year. If you're in the New York area, this may check it out. Cody, thank you. Jordan, thank you. Have a wonderful time in Augusta this week. Our guy Tron Carter is going to be joining you this weekend. Everybody tune in Sunday night to our recap pod. It will of course be on what heavy. Before we go, we have

one more segment and it's a segment that Cody and I recorded last week. And it's with Rachel Heck, we have about a 2025 minute conversation with Rachel. Of course, again, if you missed it on our website, Rachel published a piece entitled, Why I'm Remaining an Amateur. It's her own words. I thought it was a really just awesome piece, full of wisdom about her journey and her realization about why professional golf is not going to be for her. And so we talked to her a little about that. We talked to her just about how she's feeling, you know, how the body is heading into heading into Anwar this

week, catch up with her on on school stuff and just a lot of different subjects. Rachel is pretty much the most positive person always upbeat in a good mood. And, and I think you'll find that with her talking to Cody and myself. So Cody, anything to add there before we sign off? No, it was great to catch up with her. You know, clearly had some struggles. She's very open and honest about it, the whole thing.

If you haven't, please go read the piece on the website and good luck to her. Hopefully she has a good hope. We'll see, but hopefully not final showing. You never know what changes with, you know with entry procedures and everything else like that. But Biggie, thanks for having me on your podcast, buddy. Of course. Here is our conversation with Rachel Heck. Rachel, it's so nice to be able to get to talk.

First things first, how are you today? I'm great. How are y'all? Thanks for having me again. Of course, of course We're doing well. Well, I can't speak for Cody, but I assume Cody's Cody's doing great guys. Yeah. Well, thank you for making time. I know this is Obviously gonna be a very busy week as I am sure each week as you wind down your college career is gonna be busy But we appreciate you taking time. Of course, Anwah is coming up. Rachel, I got to start right here. I was

just thinking about this prior to hit and record. I say Anwah. I know some people say Anwah. Where do you fall in the Anwah Anwah? Definitely Anwah. Anyone who says Anwah is just wrong. There you go. That's what I like to hear too. Yeah. Okay, good. That makes me that makes me feel a lot better. I'll probably say it differently throughout this interview. So that'll be fun to keep track of. But let's

start here Rachel. How are you feeling? How's the body holding up and how's the golf game coming into what will be your third Anwar? Yeah, not too bad. Hopefully I've kind of taken it super light this winter. Not really playing a lot to hopefully save my body for ANWOB postseason. So we'll see. You know, I haven't obviously gotten to play as much as I would want to. I'm about to go play a tournament in Arizona.

We leave in like an hour and a half and we were kind of debating before, like, should I play this one? Should I try to save, you know, what I can play for Anwab? And then we decided like going to Anwab after not playing for a minute. It's probably not ideal. So, and just to play for the team again, it's going to be going to be fun. So yeah, well, we'll see how it goes. Yeah.

Good, bad. I don't know. It'll be interesting. Well, let's, let's dive in a little bit there you what has your practice routine been able to be like What is your day to day in terms of golf and what you're able to do now? And and how much has that changed over the course of the last couple years, I guess Yeah, I'd certainly changed pretty significantly before I could just be out there as long as I wanted to hit balls all day. I guess I'm old now and I can't do that anymore. Yeah, so I mean I try to just use my time super efficiently now. Now it's like

an hour to two hours with a couple days off and I try to spend as much time on the course as possible. Every golfer knows that hitting on the range is very different than looking at a narrow fairway. So I'm trying to just be really efficient and find a system that works, which usually looks like chipping and putting, playing a few holes, like a 15-minute range session. But I've started, I think I've maybe played one or two actual full rounds of golf. So since when? One or two actual full rounds of golf. Since when? One or two since when? I don't even want to answer that question. Like a few months.

Okay. Our tournament, but yeah, yeah, it's kind of, it's definitely hard to, you know, I'm competitive and it's frustrating. I want to just be able to, you know, do everything to feel, feel confident and prepared. But we, you know, discussed with my trainers, my physical therapists, that's not really an option anymore. So we're trying to find something that works. How have you been able to balance?

Because obviously you're just talking about the mental side of it and how you're such a competitor and you want to be out there and you want to be hitting balls and practicing and getting all this prep in. But the physical limitations that you have now. So how have you been able to figure out this balance? walls and practicing and getting all this prep in, but the physical limitations that you have now. So how have you been able to figure out this balance or has it been just a struggle?

And that's okay to say at times. This is a very, very hard, difficult place, not only in your life, but in your golfing life, too. I could not even imagine how you wake up every day being like, no, I can go do this and your body is just telling you no. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely frustrating. You know, there'll be, it's not a linear path. Clearly since surgery, there's been a lot of ups and downs and even the past few weeks, like I'll play, we had an 18-hole match against SJSU and I played that and I felt great. I

was like, oh my God, I'm healed now. Like I'm good to go. And then the couple days after that, I was like super sore and really hurting. I'm like, okay, I got to take a step back again. So it's only hard mentally to not get ahead of myself every time I have a couple of days where I feel great. But I mean, my teammates, my coaches, all of our training doctors here, like they're just incredible. And they really help me find a system that hopefully works. I guess we don't really know until I play. But also, I have plenty of stuff I need to be doing. A lot of times golf is a wonderful way to procrastinate writing a paper. So I don't really have that option anymore, which is maybe a good thing for me. I've been getting things done a lot earlier than normal. So they're straight-offs.

For sure. Well, let's dive into this. Last week, we had the privilege of publishing a piece that you wrote that was about your decision to not turn professional, which I know had been weighing on you. I can't imagine how much it's been weighing on you. Absolutely, for anybody listening that has not seen that piece, I'd encourage you to check it out. It's at NoLayingUp.com. Rachel, let's start here if you don't mind me asking. What were the emotions like for you writing that piece? I have to imagine it was both nostalgic, I'm sure very difficult, but also probably pretty liberating, I would think. Yeah. I mean, all of those things.

I felt really strongly that I wanted to get this out there in my own words. Like I had a story to tell and yeah, I wanted it to be from me. I wanted to be vulnerable coming from the heart. I was pretty excited to write it once I really finally made my decision. I think I sat down one day and wrote it all in a few hours and I cried a bit writing it. Definitely just deciding what to put in there, what to not as hard. I think I could have written 20 pages just about everything golf has done for me and all my experiences. But it was kind of cathartic to write it. It was nice to just get it all out there and to have it published, like it's done now.

I feel like it's kind of been a weight off my chest. I feel like the last year or so, just been giving cryptic answers as I try to figure out what I want. Everyone's asked me what my plan is when I don't even know what my plan is. So it feels great to just have it all out there. Was there a moment, you talked about your plan,

but was there a moment when you're like, okay Rachel, you need to figure this out now. We've kind of kicked the can down the road a little bit. When was that for you? Yeah, no definitely. I'd say late last fall was when I was like, you know what, it's time because life is getting real now. It's easy to be like, oh, I'll figure that out later.

But I'm a senior, if I wasn't playing professional golf, I kind of needed a job. So it's scary. I'm becoming a real adult, which is terrifying. But last fall, I was like, all right, this is time. And it wasn't, you know, I'd been deliberating on it for a couple of years. And, you know, when it came time to decide, decide like I knew I knew what I wanted. I'm gonna ask you a hard question and it's it's not to put you in a bad spot at all but I know that like day one of your senior year as an ROTC cadet it's a big deal because you're you're committing and that's it's a huge spot for you and when you had surgery the beginning of last year and it really took you out for the spring semester and obviously you would have played in ANWAL last year and everything else.

Is your rehab weighed into your decision to forego playing professionally for now and just sticking to you know the path that you've chosen? It really wasn't a factor which is so nice. I told all my friends and my coaches and my family, like, I feel so grateful that I came to this on my own before I feel like I had something taken away from me. I don't know if I would have been able to travel like right now with how I am. Like I definitely couldn't go on tour right now. I don't know. I feel just so blessed. Like this is something that I wanted. Injuries aside, I could be in perfect health and this is still exactly what I would have wanted. So I feel super grateful about that and you know the

injuries kind of confirm it a little bit like all right well maybe I don't have that much of a choice anyway but you know it definitely was a choice that I made for myself before injuries and everything else. I mentioned before this will be your third time competing at ANWA. I double-clutched there. I almost said ANWA. I had to think about it. Your first event was 2021. You finished tied for third. You were back in 2022, tied for 27th. Missed last year, but back this year. If I may, Rachel, is ANWA something that you hope to continue playing into the future? Have you thought that far ahead yet with you remaining an amateur?

Gosh, just as a fan of golf, I would hope this could be something, assuming your body and game is up to it, that you could come back. Oh, yeah. I mean, absolutely. That would be the dream right there if I could play Anwar again in the future. Obviously, it's very hard to get into Anwah. I don't know. What a sneaky question by Big here. I see where you're going with this. I don't know, Randy. Why wouldn't they? Listen, if the tournament committee is listening, why would they not

continue to extend invitations to you, Rachel? I'll yeah. I'll even go, where Randy's trying to lead you to, what does amateur golf look like for you? Are we still gonna play competitively? Like are we trying to play in women's amateur every year? We're gonna weight and tee it up in women's mid-ams? Like, what does that look like? Yeah, I mean, ideally, all of it, ideally women's am, when it comes time for mid AM, definitely be playing

that. If I'm playing well and get into ANWA, definitely I'll be playing that. US Open qualifiers. So if it were up to me, I'd play all these things. Of course, I don't know what my adult job is going to look like. Hopefully I get a little bit of flexibility. They're supportive of that. But I definitely don't want to just leave the golf world behind. Like it's still

something I just love so much. And I think it'll make competing even more special when it's not something I do every week, when it's something like I genuinely just get to look forward to. I think it's easier to take it for granted when that's, even college golf almost kind of feels like your job, you're traveling a bunch, you're tired, you're playing, you take a lot of stuff for granted but when you know that's that's the mark to my calendar something I'm looking forward to I think it'll be cool. What's your favorite part of this week? Could be on course or off course. I think the after the first

couple days everything just gets really fun you know the first couple days are probably the most intense days in women's amateur golf. There's just something in there like everyone wants to make the cut. It's it's kind of brutal, honestly, that course is tough. But after that, it's just I mean, it's incredible. Like make or miss the cut. Everyone has such a wonderful time. We get to have these really nice dinners at Augusta.

Everyone gets to play the practice round. And after that, the vibe just takes a full 180. And it's like, OK, this is really cool. You get a little more perspective on it after those two days at Champs Retreat. How much, you said, obviously, you've not been able to play a lot of golf. I imagine then that you're going to rely

on your history at this event, your history both at Champions Retreat and Augusta National. How difficult is it to prepare for two different courses? Maybe I should factor that in more to my practice routine than I do. But for me, I'm just like, okay, one challenge at a time. Like if I get to play Augusta, life is good. Like I'll figure that out later. That's a later problem. Those caddies know what they're doing. But I'm more focused on Champions Retreat going into it. Same way that I feel like most of my teammates, like we talked about Champs Retreat for months. It's a hard course. We're like, oh boy,

we got to get through those two days and then you know, the rest will figure itself out. The first couple years we did not get to see any golf from Champions Retreat. Starting last year, they began televising some over there for folks that, and myself included, for folks that aren't as familiar with the Champions Retreat course, what makes it so difficult? They play it really long for us. The greens are typically extremely firm. We're coming on the long irons, super firm greens. There's a whole lot of trouble. Usually the weather's really bad. Like rounds

get delayed, which I feel like they probably do on purpose somehow. It's just an extreme, it's absolutely beautiful. It's an incredible course, but we all agree. I'd say most of us agree that it's probably the most difficult course we play in amateur golf. Wow. Cody, I had no idea. No, I wasn't expecting her to say that. One lasting memory that I have from Champions Retreat

is you always have those boats that just randomly show up on the golf course. It'll be like some guy just fishing on like, you know, whatever freak inlets off 12 fairway. Yes. Oh my gosh, especially if I'm like struggling. I always get so jealous of those people. Seem like they're like, man, I'm out here playing in this awesome tournament here, but that guy's got a better life than me right now. He's all like, s**t me right now. Exactly.

guy's got a better life than me right now. He's all excited to see you right now. Exactly. Oh man. Well, I have to imagine after, like you said, after the two days of Champions Retreat, it's so much fun to go over. You get to play a practice round at Augusta National. And then of course, for those that make the cut, the final round is at Augusta National. Rachel, what are, like, when you close your eyes and picture, you know, maybe the most famous golf course in the world. What are some of your favorite shots to hit at Augusta national like well, like what shots have you missed being able to hit after missing last year's event? 15 for me is a really fun one. Just being able to go forward. It's usually

exciting. It's at the end, a few more holes left. I mean, obviously, every hole is iconic, but once you hit 11, 12, it just becomes surreal. There's no way I'm out here right now. I've watched this on TV since I was a kid with my dad, and now we're doing this, and I'm competing, and there's so many people. It changes. It's not something you get with every tournament. Yeah. How much have you guys because Stanford I mean God

Sanford I feel like is sending the entire athletic department. So many people. Randy. This is the fifth year of the ANWA 31 Stanford players. I can't believe it. Incredible. Yeah, he did say ANWA. Come on Cody. I can't believe it. Incredible. Yeah, he did say Anwa. Come on, Cody. Anwa.

There we go. Rachel, how much have you guys been talking about this, Yvette, amongst your team? Have you been able to offer much advice to some of the younger teammates? We don't talk about golf a whole lot. I respect that. I respect that. Honestly, yeah, I'd say like, none of our conversations are about golf. We're all definitely excited.

Like we all got together and took pictures with our invitations and we're super pumped like our freshman Paula to have her play. Like we're super excited. We all know that. But I can't lie and say we discussed our like strategy at champs retreat every night. I should know that, but I can't lie and say we discuss our strategy at Chance Retreat every night. I should know that. I mean, I spent a week with you guys. I should know you're not talking much golf off the course. You've seen it. You know more than anyone. Randy thought that Coach Walker and Secretary Rice were just in there giving you guys motivational speeches.

They're like, all right, this is our course. We've got to take this down. Come on. Well, let me ask you the flip question to the one I just asked you. Not your favorite shots at Augusta national, but, but which shots are kind of in the back of your mind of like, Oh God, I'm going to have to deal with this shot or that shot. Are there any that keep you up at night? The first tee? The first tee. I can't hit that fairway. I mean, if I get to the first tee shot in a competitive sense, then like, you know,

I won't complain. But it's, oh my gosh, the nerves there. We've all teed it up in a lot of big events. You know, we've all teed it up in majors. But like, somebody's just different about the first tee at Augusta. There's people there. Dr. Rice is like right me. I'm like, oh gosh, I can't let her down. I don't know what to hit off the tea. Yeah, that's one. Once you get going, then it's not too bad. I'm trying to think if there's any, there's not a whole lot after that

that's in particularly too terrifying. I hit it in the water on 12 last time. I feel like that could haunt me a little bit. I was gonna say everybody talks about 12 trying to figure out the wind. I know it's a tough yardage there but. Right yeah I feel like 12 would be the the next one. Yeah 12. But yeah just getting up that first tee stuff. I could see that. I could see that. What kind of expectations are you allowing yourself this year or are you just kind of going in with with no expectations? Yeah I'm definitely trying not to have any expectations like there

have been times I've come back from injuries and it's like wow it's very clear that I haven't played golf in a while and then there's sometimes like women's am where I'll play great. So, you know, I prepared the same way every time. Golf is a weird game. So I'm just kind of doing what I'm able to do right now. And we'll see which one of those happens. Who's going to be caddying for you? If anybody? My dad. Your dad. That's awesome.

Yeah, of course, my dad. It's been about a, you know, he's been caddy since I was a little baby as you all saw in those pictures. So it's pretty special to have him in the bag. There won't be too many more times. I mean, I'm sure he'll be caddy for me in all my mediums, but things like this are winding down. Post-Anwa, Anwa, I did it again, hand up. You guys are gearing up for another incredible, you know, post-season run here to nationals. I mean, you guys gotta be excited as a team.

Everybody seems to be rounded into really good form. I'm sure Coach Walker's doing everything possible to keep you guys refreshed, as fresh as you possibly can. But you gotta be excited about that, gotta be excited about graduation. And then what do you think your summer's gonna look like? Yeah, first of all, like going to postseason, we were so pumped.

We're excited, yeah, everyone's playing well. Everyone's, yeah, super motivated. New course? Yeah, new course. I don't know a whole lot about it, but we're trying to get a little more information so we know how to prep going into it. Yeah, Coach Walker's great about that, a little better than I am on the preparation side.

But yeah, everyone's really excited. I've been getting just so incredibly nostalgic lately. Like, how am I a senior? How do I only have 10 more weeks left of this? Like, I feel like I was just a freshman and now it's almost over. So I've been definitely taking some time to look around, smell the roses. It's crazy that it's happening, but summer wise, honestly, I don't really know.

I'm hoping, so I'm doing a 10 week internship this spring before I graduate. Hopefully I'll have a little bit of time off before I start back working again. But I would travel, play golf, hopefully be able to play things like women's am. Maybe just some normal post-graduation things like going on a trip. We'll see, kind of hard to schedule a lot of unknown. Right. That's what I was gonna say.

Is there a break anywhere in here? I mean, hopefully. Fingers crossed there's a break. My sister's getting married crossed there's a break. My sister's getting married. There's a lot of fun things. Cool, congrats. And then really, I guess the big question is, when are you going to commission and start

your new life as a reserve officer as well? Like, we're talking about what your normal civilian job is going to be, but that's only one part of it. Right, right. Yeah, so I'll commission June 15th, so the day before graduation, and then yeah, from there, figure out at some point, I'll go to a couple months of specialized school for my job in the Air Force and I'll begin that journey. Not exactly sure where I'm going to be. I'm trying to be stationed. Like there's an Air Force base an hour and a half from here.

I'll be in the Bay area next week, so that would be ideal. So a lot of things I'm trying to figure out right now, but I mean, ROTC also, I'm getting so nostalgic. Like everyone's been making fun of me a little bit because I'm like taking pictures and we're like, they're like, Rachel, stop. Like no one's having that much fun right now. But I'm like, guys, it's almost over.

Like we were just little baby cadets and now we're conditioning. So yeah, I mean, a bunch of guys, they're not too nostalgic. They can't wait to leave, but I am going to visit. That's awesome. Well, congratulations on that. Probably the next time we talk to you, you'll no longer be cadet. Heck, it'll be Lieutenant Heck, and then I'm going to make Randy salute you every time be, you know, cadet heck, it'll be lieutenant heck, and then I'm gonna make Randy salute you every time he sees you.

But it is a really big, a really big accomplishment, and I'm super proud of you for sticking to it because there's been multiple times where you could have been like, yeah, this was cool. Like, I experienced this, but you know, I don't really have to do this. And that's the complete opposite of what you decided to do. And I think it's

such a tremendous honor for you, but like everybody else, and I know this is going to sound super cheesy to people who aren't military people or around military people, but you joining the Air Force and sticking to it is a big deal. And you're inspiring and hopefully there's a ton of other men and women that are out there that are like, you know inspiring and hopefully there's there's a ton of other, you know men and women that are out there They're like, you know what if Rachel could do this and still be you know One of the best college athletes one of the best athletes that her you know chosen craft then I can do it, too And that's exactly what the military means and that that's coming from a guy who probably Spent way too much a lot longer than I thought I was going to in the

army. But looking back now, it was all worth it. Somehow I ended up here on this podcast with you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Well, perfect. Rachel, best of luck this week, truly. Thank you for the time today. I just want to say it is so impressive how wise and able to see the bigger picture of life and beyond just the game of golf. And I know that's a credit to your family, your father, who you mentioned specifically in your piece. And I just, yeah, I'm like, gosh, way more mature than I ever was at your age. So so I commend you for that. And best of luck not only at ANWF, but everything going forward this summer and into your future. Thanks so much, guys. Thanks for having me.

Be the right club. Be the right club today. today.