No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 92: Eddie Pepperell

Episode Date: August 22, 2017

Eddie Pepperell joins the podcast to talk about his career, his fascinating blog, how he sees the future of the European Tour, and the ups and downs of tour life. Eddie is one of the... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 92: Eddie Pepperell appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's time for the FedEx Cup playoffs, which means the only place you're going to be able to see early round action is of course on PGA Tour Live. Feature groups this week are Hadecki Matsuyama, Jordan Speeth, Justin Thomas, and a lot more. Plus feature whole coverage, go to PGA Tour Live.com today and subscribe. And of course, checking in with our friends at Odyssey. Odyssey the number one putter and golf, and they are just continuing to dominate the tour with the most worldwide wins this year. Hendrick Stenson's win last week at the win-nam put Odyssey over the 50 win mark for the year that's more than any other putting brand. Now let's get to the podcast. That is better than most. That is better than most.

Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Lang Up podcast. Excited to be joined today by Eddie Pepperall. Eddie, we tried to meet up in London a few weeks ago. It didn't happen. So we got to do this over the phone. But thanks for joining and how are you, amen? Yeah, no worries.

I'm good. I'm in Denmark, but yeah, I know all is good. Yeah, as it was a shame not to meet up. There's a nice service station that does a Nando's. I was hoping we could meet there. But you said you didn't have a cast. That was a shame, but maybe one day. Trying to get around London with a 30 kilo gotch golf travel bag without a car. That was a lot of fun. That was a lot of sweat on that day. But sorry we didn't get to meet up. But yeah, you,

you, I got to play out at Walton Heath while I was out there. You recently, that's the course you qualified at for the US Open this year. Did you play a lot there at all growing up or where do you play most of your golf? Yeah, so I played a tournament there once a year at Walton Heath as an amateur. So I got to play it a bit, but I live kind of batting down a half away from there. But it's a great course, I mean I'm sure you enjoyed it. Both courses are really good. Yeah, you know, I love the way that the Heather kind of, I think it's Heather, Heather frames the kind of, you know, frames the holes, it's unusual, right, to have a course that feels open, but actually is framed by something like that. It's nice and plays really

well. So what did you think of it? I actually enjoyed it. Oh I loved it. I mean it played kind of fast and firm like a like a links course should. But it's kind of a hybrid style. It's links-ish without really being on the sea. But the heat land feel to it. It has pretty wide enough fairways at least. But so there's no excuse to be in the in the the Heather Gore. It's almost like a shave-down gorse like grass is super punishing there. But I really enjoyed playing around London, man. That was a, that was a different, different style of golf. And I was curious, because you live out near Oxford that now do you,

what is that, what is that commute like? What's it like traveling for you? Because you're about, are you maybe 45 minutes from Heathrow or how far are you from Heathrow? Yeah, exactly. You know, I live in a good place to be honest to commute. I'm kind of an hour outside of London, 45 minutes to Heathrow or how far are you from Heathrow? Exactly. I live in a good place to be honest to commute. I'm kind of an hour outside of London, 45 minutes to Heathrow. So yeah, it's a pretty good location where I'm from. I could have had it a lot worse to be fair.

And we haven't got the kind of crazy house prices that London, of course, also. It's best to both worlds, really. Well, let's do, I'm sure a lot of listeners, most listeners of this show are definitely familiar with you, but for those that aren't and whatnot, can we do like a quick introduction and we'll get to the good stuff after that? But give us like your two minute intro that sums up to how you got to where you are today,

where you are today, the state of your game, the ups and downs and whatnot. You watch your image or career was like, if you can, some rise that in a couple of minutes. What is your go-to introduction? Well, go to, go to, I started at four and then, you know, like most kids just play growing up right. I started competing quite young, kind of 11-12-ish. And then, yeah, it was a good junior goal. I played a lot of golf in England as a kid and you know, had a good amateur career, won a few of the bigger, of the biggest events in the UK,

but I was never really what you could consider a top amateur. What a really top top amateur I didn't think. And then term pro in 2011, I played a bit of mini-tour stuff at the beginning of 2012, I believe, but I actually had won my first event on the challenge draw of that year, which then got me some starts on the tour, ended up coming on the 16th, sorry, on the rankings, which got me a European tour card and I've been on the tour ever since, obviously, had a few good years on the tour from 2013 to 2016. Lost my card last year, but got it back and this year's been better than last for sure. And obviously the highlight probably being the US Open, we had a top 20. And that's a basic summary of the career so far from a golf standpoint.

So it's pretty good. That was under two minutes. That was pretty good. That's exactly what I was looking for. So I did want to talk about a bit about your amateur career. And I think you summed up perfectly. You had a good amateur career, but you wouldn't call yourself a top amateur. Did you think career-wise did to from like your amateur career to today? Were you supposed to be on it? Did you feel like you were supposed to be on a different trajectory than the one you're on? Did you have higher expectations, lower expectations? I guess go back to when you were 21 and looking at you now at 26. different trajectory than the one you're on? Did you have higher expectations, lower expectations?

I guess go back to when you were 21 and looking at you now at 26, are you where you thought you would be? Oh, that's a good one. Honestly, I had no expectations, you know? Yep. And when I think back, you know, I honestly can't remember what kind of my goals were. I don't think I really had any.

I didn't really set any goals or anything like that. I think I lost my way, I didn't lose my way, I lost some interest when I was kind of 1920 and I got a bit bored of playing the same amateur events and I didn't do it for so long around the same people and I felt like I needed a fresh challenge. I turned pro middle of the year, walk a cup here, and I would have been in the walk a cup. I played a one-the-portgis amateur that year. I'd had won a couple of events the year before. I was pretty confident, if I'm being honest, I would've got a spot in that team.

But honestly, the walk a cup just wasn't, it was of no interest to me. I seem to have developed, I'm gonna describe it, a kind of, a bigger picture feeling if that makes sense. When I was beginning of my 19th birthday, I had a winter where I just dived into dozens of books and started to learn a bit more about psychology within sport, particularly just reading about other people's careers, you know, in other sports.

And I kind of realised that, you know, what, not that the answer stuff is an important, but it's about improving right. It's just about challenging yourself and pushing for something different. And that's why I decided to do it at that time in 2011. So, yeah, but to ask you a question, it was, you know, there wasn't really, I say, a bigger picture kind of goal, but there was no real endpoint goal today. It was a bigger picture kind of viewpoint with a very much a process focus, if that makes sense on a day-to-day kind of basis.

And, yeah, that was my approach back then for my remember. That was quite the walker cup, I mean, that 2011 US team was absolutely stacked. And the Graper and Ireland beat the mid-Roll Aberdeen, if I remember right, is that right? Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, my friend Tom Lewis played. I think, yeah, yeah, again, I wouldn't be able to tell you who's in the team, either team, but you'd know. But so...

I know Andy Sullivan was on that team, and that's about one of the... Him and Lewis were the only guys I immediately recognized, but it was against Jordan's beef. I think Patrick Rogers is on that team, and I have to look at it again. I've been going back through Walker Cup archives, but that one I just looked at that team

and said, how in the world did that team lose? But man, you would have been undoubtedly a part of a winning team on that one. Well, I don't know. My record at Royal Aberdeen is terrible. When I think about it, I'm kind of glad I missed it. That's a tough course, man. That was one of the harder courses I think I played in Scotland.

So I don't know how far you usually get into interviews before somebody brings up your blog. Is eight minutes? Is that short or fun? How far did I make it into before I got the ball? You've doubled it. You're fine. But you do have one of the more insightful, I guess,

mediums for a mind into a touring pro. You're very open honest and very revealing often in blog posts. How did that originally come about? And do you still have the same kind of passion towards venting your thoughts on your blog as you did when you started it? Yeah, so it came about that winter I described where I kind of started reading lots of books.

That's when it kind of came about. I kind of discovered that as I read, which I'd never did as a kid. I'd never finished a book before I was 19 and then all of a sudden I wasn't put on one down for a little while. And I just found that the more I read, the more I kind of thought about my own experiences and I guess reflected, right? And I just kind of had so much going on in my head and winters were kind of long and boring as an amateur back in the UK for sure. So I had plenty of time just to start writing and I did and I mean I haven't gone over it but I imagine some

it would be quite funny to go back over now but that was that was how it started and then yeah I obviously got my card and I wrote a couple of posts that I think some people found particularly interesting I think the first one really was called Life on Tour which I wrote I remember in Abu Dhabi in my rookie season and I was first reserve all week and you know it was quite a lonely week for me I kind of knew nobody and there was room service going on and you know it was it was um yeah that's what started me writing blogs of that kind of feel-connature if that makes sense you know just being alone a bit on Tor and just having those thoughts going

through the mind and I'm wanting to you to expand on them. I guess I enjoyed the creative aspect of writing and once I do start writing I kind of enjoy it. So yeah, that's how it began, to be honest with you Chris. Yeah, it's taken there. It's took off. It's a great read and I've talked about this many times on the show about how when you want to go to a tournament when you watch on TV, how being a tour and professional looks like the most glamorous job in the world, I think your blog is kind of an insight to the ups and downs and how that's not necessarily always the case. So I'll ask, is being a professional five years in, I think about five years in, does it match your expectations of what you thought life would be like?

Is it better? Is it not as glamorous or what, what, what, you know, five years in, how do you see it? Yeah, it's kind of a lot more up and down. And I mean that more from like a material perspective. So I've always considered myself very level-headed and I am, it's probably the highs and the lows. But you know the kind of the high finish is and the rewards and the feeling you get when you contend into win and I go haven't won yet but I've come close and you know those feeling I mean that is like a drug right, that's less like what anyone would describe, that's a Europe performer, and that's what I honestly love, you know,

it's the same with the US Open this year, just being in front of that many people, and, you know, I've always been a bit of a shawf as a kid, so to feel like I can go and shawf some skills in front of people, I mean, it's a great, great feeling, and I'll always be addicted to that, and I'll always want more of that. But the low times, you know, the miscuts, the spell I had last year, where I lost my card, I mean, God, it kind of drove me to despair and, you know, I was going to bed at night worrying about certain T-shirts and really the only work I could quite. My mind down was with a couple of glasses of, you know, kind of strong red wine. So, yeah, I mean, ups and

downs from that perspective were, you know, I would never have envisaged that, to be honest with you. You would never experience that as an amateur, right? I remember getting frustrated and a lot as a kid, as a junior, as an amateur, but I never took the same degree. You had the frustration that I've had as a professional, but also never took the same degree. You had the level of satisfaction that you get when you have a high finish. You realize what the money gives you because we obviously, if you have, as a salesman on European tour, obviously it's an incredible money on the PJ tour, but it's kind of crazy what you realize just earning that sort of money can bring to your life. Yeah, it's definitely, you know, grow up quick, you know, in a way. Do you think, I mean, it's maybe a dumb question because I think everyone has to, but coming down the stretch of a tournament when you're in the top five, are you thinking about the

potential dollar amount or euro amount that comes with every swing? I have, yeah, I remember the Scottish Open at Gullen when Ricky won. I think I was two behind coming down the last and I hit it to about ten feet. I was shot in and I looked at the leaderboard and at this point I knew I couldn't win but I knew that was a big part. I said to myself, this is a, yeah, it's kind of at least a 50 gram part so I'm gonna hold it and I hold it and I'll give it a big fist bump and yeah you know I think anybody that tells you they're not at some point playing for some money they're lying because honestly it is an incredible feeling when you know you

hold a part to give you 50k say or even a hundred grand that's a lot a lot of cash and doesn't mean to say I just play for the money. I'm playing to contend and to win golf tournaments, right? But when gas kind of out the window then, you know, you need something else to get you to skern and honestly, I find being in 30th position just, I'd rather be at home, you know, in 40th position because you just, you just like a zombie on the golf course at that point. So yeah, I felt that in the past Well, it's kind of an awkward inappropriate question to ask people about finances But for some reason when you're with professional athletes I feel like people are a bit shameless with and asking about it So I'll be carefully asked I you know you've had you've had a lot of success

You were on what one point ranked the 80th ranked player in the world in 2016 as you mentioned you lost your card And was not a strong year for you. Do thing, obviously you made more money during the year in 2015 to 2016, but do you, have you reached a certain level of comfort that you weren't stressing necessarily about finances in 2016 and you were more just focused on your game or does year year, does it vary that much? I mean, all right, asking a different way, are you stressing about making money for your card purposes, or are you stressed about making money for making money purposes, if that makes sense? Yeah, that's a good, I guess the latter really,

actually, if I had to be honest honest from with you, because for me, I got great ambitions than just retaining a tour card. So whereas, if I was to say we're in a hundred grand this week in Denmark, I wouldn't think, I'll great, that ties my card up, I'd think, I'm gonna do the kitchen up. Yeah. And, you know, that's how I would think about it. So, yeah, I guess the latter really responds to question, Chris. And, you know, I've grown to think that there's nothing shameful in saying that. When I was a lot younger and, you know, way more left on the political spectrum, right?

I would have been like, you know, we, yeah, we shouldn't be thinking this sort of thing. It's almost a crime to be thinking about money, and I remember when I would hear kind of Polter come out with a comment about, I don't know, car or something, I would be thinking, oh, that's not the right attitude. But as I've grown up and had some experience in professional life, I've realized, you know what, there's actually no right wrong as to how anybody thinks, and you know, everybody's actually no right wrong as to how anybody thinks and you know Everybody's entitled to think whatever they want at the end of the day and um, I wouldn't judge anybody for that frankly anymore

We talked a bit at the beginning of the show about the impact that Odyssey golf has had on professional golf around the world with Henrich Stenson's win at the wind and putting Odyssey over the 50 win mark for the year New from Odyssey are the new Oworks Red and Oworks Black putters and they've taken extensive feedback from the best players in the world and the putters offer beautiful new head shapes and finishes along with a micro hinge in insert to help you make more putts. I can attest to this. I've got the Oworks Red. The micro hinge insert makes the ball come off the putter faces to bit softer. I feel like I'm making a nice firm stroke with the ball and not fearing running Puts by with it. Oworks red and black are in stores now so go experience it for yourself or at Odyssey Golf dot com.

And would you so going back to you know 2015 into 2016 the struggles that you had in that regard. I've heard you read about them on your blog talking about that they're more technical than mental. For the, I'm a golf nerd. So when I want to hear somebody say technical, I actually want to hear the details of the swing breakdown or where you think it went wrong. So when you say things got technically wrong for you, what were they or what are they and what have you done to adjust for them?

Yeah, so I was thinking about this because I thought you might bring something like this up and I was thinking about my own habit and I think that there's definitely feelings that a Skullf is have, we're all playing with feelings every single day of every single week and some feelings just aren't conducive to good golf under pressure, right? Whereas what I found with me is that my history of my golf swing is I get quite a bit of lateral shift from the top, particularly with my upper body. So what me and my coach have kind of worked on over the well-want-my-coaches, like to me, to work on is the idea of just getting my arms down, and particularly in front of my chest, you know, before my chest kind of, laterally shifts, the arms would come down into a better delivery and then everything's in time and you go from there.

So, as that's always been my focus over the years, it's worked and you know, I've had some really good days where my eye and play in particular has been great and I've gone on shot good rounds. But what I have found honestly is that under pressure, I've kind of had it difficult to recreate. And so, you know, the pressure changes things, of course it does, but it just, you know, makes some things, say, Zach Johnson, for example. You know, I imagine from the top he's just thinking about turning hard with his body, and I mean, what a great feeling to have, whereas I can't feel that, because if I feel that, I just shift more.

My arms get further out of the single body, and then I can hit it way right all, way left. I mean, so I'm going to have to, well, I'm going to have to, in the course of my career, figure out what do I work on fundamentally that makes it easier or makes it, those things happen more naturally, right? So, to me, that's a technical issue, and yeah, I've always kind of felt that over the shots I've hit. You know, I guess some people would argue that's clearly a mental issue because I've just described how pressure changes something. But I feel like you improve your technique to stand up under pressure and you know, you

want to be able to go out there and surprise yourself and have that pressure and feel that pressure but surprise yourself with the result and you know, quite frankly, I haven't yet been able to go out there and surprise yourself and have that pressure and feel that pressure, but surprise yourself with the result. And, you know, quite frankly, I haven't yet been able to do that. So I think if that answers your question in some way, Tansol, I would describe a bit of my history and how it's affected. Definitely. That definitely answers the question, but it's interesting just to hear you talk about about pressure because I always wanted, I mean every Amateur golfer in some way shape or form has experienced pressure, whether that's pressure to break 90 for the first time, break 80 for the first time, and you feel that feeling of just

your body feeling different. It sounds like you've experienced it at least enough times to know that there's a difference. It does make a difference in the way you play or the way you swing, yet it's not, correct me if I'm wrong, it's not really anything that you can practice. I mean, you can simulate it in betting and practice rounds and stuff like that, but there's nothing that's ever going to really train you for that moment other than experience. Am I right in saying that, or are you trying to technically break down your swing that is specifically better under pressure?

Yeah, I think you're dead right Chris, I don't honestly think you can recreate any scenario than what you're going to face in real time. And I think I could go and work on my game to make it under pressure better, right? But I think it would get worse. I think I'd lose my talk art before I had the opportunity to prove to people how it's better. So, you know, like, that's how I would see my own swing because of my own particular set of circumstances, particularly with transition. And transition is really what changes, I would say, and the pressure. And so, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's my opinion on it. How would you define the current state of your game? And when you wake up and you're heading to the golf course,

are you feeling good and you're like much better than last year? And do you feel like you did in 2015? Or I guess where do you fall in the spectrum of your confidence in the state of your game? I think I'm hitting way less bad shots than I used to. You know, you can stay out of practice round and hit a lot of nice shots. You know, I had four or five good events where I drove the ball particularly well. I felt that's been the big area where I've suffered and lost a lot of confidence over the last year.

So I had that and then the last time I played, yeah, I wasn't quite the same. I feel pretty good though with my game, you know, I'm kind of focusing on the same stuff in terms of the golf swing of my coach. Now we've been focusing on it for a good four or five months. It's back swing related, trying to get me into the right positions earlier in the swing, which then helped me because I find that if I get the back swing correct, then, you know, I can then just focus on a transition feeling to hit the right golf shot whereas if I don't quite get the back swing correct, then I have to manipulate on the way down and that opens a whole other kind of worm.

So, the good thing is I feel like I'm focusing on one or two of the same stuff, weak and weak out and that's kind of nice, a stress free as a golfer. And in terms of putting, I installed a pot and green in my house a couple of months ago and I've been doing quite a bit on that. And I feel really good to put in Stephanie improving just the actual volume, the sheer volume that I've been putting in is making a big difference. And I've done a couple of kind of, you know, game like things where I tweeted actually last week a picture of a smaller hole, like putting a hole and things like that just to make my focus a bit more. Yeah, I feel good though. My game definitely feels good. I can't remember how it felt in

15. When I look back at 15, I had some good weeks, but I had some bad ones as well. I mentioned the Scotch Open earlier, a gullum. The week before I withdrew on the Saturday of the French Open, I just finished my third round. I was so angry. I said I had a bad back, but I didn't. I was just kind of going crazy. And I just had to book a flight home, and I would drew. And I had to go and I knew I had to go spend three days at home just doing hundreds and thousands of drills, little single arm drills. I did that, drove up to the sky, open a gull and had no practice round and went and come like, you know,

fourth and was only a couple of winnings. So I've had so many examples as well. I could give you so many examples of where that's happened in my career as a professional. So, you know, while I think I look back and you think, oh, that looks like a good season, within that season, there's just some crazy ups and downs and inconsistencies. So, but I do feel like I'm not really there, like I was back then. So I would say it feels better, but I'm sure everybody says that and you know there's some definite examples out there where you know the results will prove them wrong.

Did you qualified for the US Open, played with a no-ling uptow on the bag? I feel like that should be the headline of that, but you finished tie for 16. Did that at all feel like a turning point for you? Because I know that we had, you know, I was looking, I was hoping you'd get in the Irish or Scottish open. And it kind of was just a stretch for you where you weren't getting in some of those events. And I'm sure that was a big boost for you. But T16 at Aaron Hills going over to the States

did that week. How special was that week? It was, I think, very good for me. And I think I'll reflect on it more in the long run, probably actually not until I play another major, will I realize how what that did for me because you know, I've played a few majors but I don't play two in the US and both times I was way down. Although actually way down because I'm putting so whereas the US open just gone, I've actually part of the decent, so that was a big surprise for me, you know, just getting way down because I'm putting. So, whereas at US Open just gone, I've actually

parted kind of decent. So that was the big surprise for me, you know, just getting on really quick slopey greens and feeling like I can, you know, be confident with the pace because we just don't play on anything of that sort. So, yeah, I think it'll be big for me Chris moving forward, you know, that I got a lot of confidence from it. Didn't hit many bad shots in the week, you know, it was kind of steady away. And yeah, tie 16th was, yeah, it kind of feels like a bigger result than that, but that goes to show, I guess, just how, yeah, I hope it is a new and so open. Yeah. And you had a lot of success at the Irish Open, and you lost in a playoff at County Down, and I think you're about T8 I think at the K club

were you a bit peev to not get an invite to the event in 2017? Yeah well you know I sent an invite letter to the guys to buy duty free and I said this and I'm half Irish. I've got 73 cousins you know my records really good there so I didn't offer to give any prize money to Royce Charity because of that and I can't believe they didn't give me an invite. Quite honestly with the accris so yeah it was a shame I was looking forward that seems to be my yearly kitchen pickup. How does that work? Do they notify you that they're not giving you an invite or you just never hear back from them or how's that work? never hear back from them or how's that work? Yeah, they notified me. Yeah, like, not that long after I wrote the letter, I mean, kind of a couple of weeks

before the event, I want to say. Yeah, you know, this is obviously the first year I've had to write and ask for invites and start the year, my manager drafted a few out and I kind of didn't amend them too much, but I haven't had a whole lot of success with them, So I've kind of reached a point of, you know, can I swear on the podcast? Yeah, of course. Oh, I've reached a fuck it point, you know, where he just thinks, you know what, I've got nothing to lose at this point. I don't really care. I'm not going to be offensive, but

I can say what I want. And I'm trying that approach now. So we'll see if I get a few invites, then maybe you'll realize this worked. You just start submitting like video essays or something like that. Where you say exactly that. I want to know, you mentioned Ian Polter earlier, maybe he's a good comp or I'd written down here Justin Rose, and I want to know like when you look at a guy like Rose or Polter, and I specifically didn't go towards Rory and the true bomber guys that play a different game. But when you look at somebody like Justin Rosary and Polter, what's the biggest thing that separates the two of you?

What do you look at when you see them play and say, that's what I need or that's what I don't have? Well, the obvious answer at this point is the glasses, right? Yes. thank you. I saw the solar eclipse one, I like that. And by the way, have we heard from Tron today after the whole TWA Big Cat manhoodly? I have not, I'm sure he's dying to say something. Have you seen the picture of it yet? I did, we were talking about, we were viewing them on the golf course today, yeah, we had to walk off a few shots.

That guy's not had a good year, it's not going well for him, but that's much worse for Lindsey Bond. I think drugs are like they're working. Those, you know, not those kind of drugs, you know, I mean, I hope you haven't got ed bad bit out, you know, I mean the sleeping pill, whatever he was taking, I don't know, the bankiness. Anyway, Justin Rose and Paula, I mean, I don't know how we got there with that harmless question that I asked.

I don't know, really, I guess, in particular, with Justin, probably his ball striking prowess, I would argue is, you know, it's just a difference between myself and him. And the kind of, yeah, the ability has just, the technical prowess if that makes sense. But at the same time, God, I don't know how old they are, but they're certainly, at least I would think, for 10 years older than me at least. So, I'm aware that, well, I'm certainly aware that time plays a massive part, you know, I mean golf is changing, but I would hope I still have, if I do make the right decisions

and focus and that sort of thing, I should have at least another 10 to 15 years out here and then, you know, natural kind of progressions determine, will mean that these players just have afforded out the game, right? So, somebody's got to fill the holes and, you know, that can definitely be me in terms of that sense, in terms of Justin and Ian. So, yeah, I guess in terms of that, does that answer your question? I mean, I don't know Ian's game all that well,

if I'm honest, so yeah, it looks like he does a lot of good things, but you see him at the odd shank now and again, so I mean, what you, he's, you know, he's tenacious isn't he? And I think his record is probably better than what people feel when they think of him as a golfer, but credit to Ian, I've got a lot respect and admiration for certainly both of them. And yeah, you mentioned Rory, I mean, yeah, he's like what, if you had a skill that you could trade out of yours and sub in another player, I find their answers pretty fascinating. Rory said he would rather have he wanted Steve Stricker to hit his wedge shots for him. And I don't know, because it's just interesting, A, what you're willing to admit as far as your peers as to what they do better than you, and B, what you see is your weakness compared

to the guys' major strengths. But along the lines of what you were just talking your weakness compared to the guys major strengths. But along the lines of what you were just talking about, it sounds like you're chatting about the tiger pictures and maybe that's a bit more tabloid news than it is golf news. But do you, are you like a golf nerd? Like do you follow the ongoing of golf that aren't necessarily central to you very closely? Or because it surprises me sometimes, you know, guys finish T35 and they're on their plane and then they're not even necessarily paying attention to what happens in the term of the rest of the day. Are you a guy that kind of follows the world of golf rather closely or is it more of a

profession to you? Yeah, I'm really not, you know, as soon as I get off the course, I'm on Twitter and the people I follow, you know, she's like zero hedge and people like that, so, which is finance, not golf. So, yeah, I'm kind of really not interested. You know, I like following you guys, obviously, because you've got a different angle and it's pretty funny, but yeah, I'm not not a golf nerd. No, I'm really not. I'm really not unfortunately. I never really have been if I'm in honest. Do you love golf? I think I probably do. I certainly love a lot of the many aspects of it It's an interesting one, isn't it? You know, it's like if my leg was chopped off tomorrow

What what would I feel and the truth is obviously I don't know what I would feel other than a lot of pain But I think within that would be some relief, you know, because I've played this game a long time. I've had, you know, distressed the emotional kind of toil of the game as 26, not taking its toll on me, but it's, you know, it's impacted me, right? And yeah, I feel like there would be a level of us, you know, something of relief there, which is maybe interesting to think that, you know, that I'm so far down the road with it that I, you know, it's just these what it is, right? And yeah, I kind of do love the challenge of it. There's no doubt about it. I wouldn't go and practice if I didn't, and the actions speak out of the words, really.

Do you, maybe you may have just answered this by saying you don't know what you would do, but let's say, yeah, if you were to go into another career, what would be at least something you'd want to do or something that would interest you? Yeah, I mean, it would be, it would be something whereby, I think, the brain, like, was where, if you, where knowledge was power, basically,

because the thing with golf is that really knowledge just doesn't mean jack shit. It kind of just doesn't, you've got to be able to do it. And yeah, you have your golf knowledge, but it's much more of an action whereas, you know, business or many other things in life, it really is, you know, how can I apply my knowledge and my brain and use that kind of thing which I enjoy doing but you know being a golfer and you know you always just revert back to that so I don't do it often enough or certainly to the level that I would need to but it would be I don't know what industry honestly but probably I really enjoy economics you know I love watching Bloomberg and keeping up

today with the markets and stuff like that which is kind of boring some people would say but I'm waiting for that you you know, kind of September, 08 time to turn Bloomberg on and just watch the kind of, the ass fall out of the world, and then that'll be great kind of popcorn telling for a few hours, I think. For the record, I was asking that question along the lines of if you're like got chopped up, not as if you should be considering another career, but I didn't think you took it that way. But you once said on your blog, this is a quote I've always found fascinating. And I remember reading this a long time ago, but you said, I'm not sure I'll ever be

happy, which doesn't bother me because all it matters is that you aren't unhappy and I'm not unhappy. I always wanted to just kind of pick your brain on to flesh that out further. It's only three sentences, but that kind of that thought, and that starting line of, I'm not sure I'll ever be happy. What did you mean by that? And does that quote I guess still apply today?

Yeah, I, you know, I can't remember when I wrote that, but that's probably at some point last year. I think like, I know nothing of depression because I've never been depressed, and it's a terrible illness, but I think some people overreact to their emotions and I guess, you know, I'm of the approach that basically we are so imperfect. That we're trying to be perfect, we're trying to be happy. People, you know, and I just feel like, well, actually, as long as you're not unhappy, you just are, you're just a human and we're all different. And I think that was the point I was trying to make in that.

And I see myself as that. I'm not happy about everything. I'm not happy to go lucky, kind of, always smiling, kind of guy, but I'm in no way unhappy. I have a great life. I often reflect and put things into perspective and I'm aware that my life is better than 99% of the rest of this world. And that's great, but it doesn't mean to say I'm always happy, right?

And it's in our nature just to want more, to sometimes get down, to sometimes get frustrated, to have terrible thoughts. But you know what, that's just what it is to be an animal and we are. So, yeah, if that, I mean, that was kind of what I was, I think, trying to get across, you know, would you agree, is that how you read it? Yeah, that makes sense, and I've always, you know, I forget who told me this one time back in the day, they said, if you have happiness, don't risk your happiness in search of more

happiness. And that quote always kind of stuck with me kind of in it. Like if you got a good life, what you're doing, don't necessarily pick up and move to the other side of the world, just in the hope that it gets even better. I don't think that's necessarily along the same lines of what you were saying, but I've always just kind of people that are content in life. I always enjoy picking their brains on how how they why they're content why they Why they feel the certain way if they have regrets and certain but what you what you just said though about

You know your life being better than 99% of the world is along the lines of what I want to talk to you as well Because I mean traveling European tour goes all over the place challenge tour especially goes all over the place So you're a guy that's been, I'm not going to say everywhere, but a lot of places, is there a place that sticks out to you as being somewhere that you visited and you were like, wow, this is a totally different way that people live life and I'm very thankful for the way I live it? Yeah, they definitely are. I mean, Morocco, year and year out, definitely there. That's one place.

We drove through some shocking places in Johannesburg at the start of the year. Shocking in what way? Yeah, no, like, shockingly deprived. And, you know, I was asking the drivers who are all kind of policeman type people down there who drive us around that week. And I was just, you know, quizzing them, you you know where are we driving through what's the crime like and you know it was terrible like really terrible and you could see it when you just look at the streets you know that's and yeah like you described exactly the same sort of stuff happened on the challenge tour

I remember I went to Russia once actually and it was just like scary it was a scary place you know the people were scary. A beautiful golf course but it was totally different what we used to and the same with China. You know, it's an incredible, I don't like going to China. We say in lovely hotels but, you know, it's hard work and it's, you know, a big part of it for sure. And every time I go, you know, I've, every time I go, and I remember looking out the bus, you know, almost every journey in Morocco, looking around and thinking, God, you know, this is,

it hits home that, you know, you really have got it good no matter how bad you've just had it on the golf course to be fair. Yeah, I think once I went to Egypt once and I was only there for about four days and I came back that night, um, I went from Cairo to Amsterdam and I'd only there for about four days and I came back that night. I went from Cairo to Amsterdam and I'd never noticed how clean the streets were in Amsterdam until I went to Cairo until I saw it. And I just can't, I imagine, you know, some of the trials as much as you do and then to those places that there's gotta be just stuff

that I remember talking on the Peter U line about being in India and having a cow walk across the road that caused a traffic jam for an hour because you don't your cows are sacred there And just kind of the you know I imagine you know a lot of the courses you play aren't necessarily right next to the airport So you do it's not you do get some you know a range travel to and from but you see a lot and you experience a lot in Between the golf course and even the airports I would imagine. So I always enjoy asking, especially European tour guys about that. So yeah, you've been talk about, and I saw you wrote about this as well, about a world golf tour and a lot of people being in favor. I struggle to kind of

picture how it would work. Do you have insight, I guess, on how that might work and whether or not you would favor it. I'm kind of cheating because I know you're answer to this, I think. But I know that just a guy at your level, you know, playing the European tour, I just always wanted to kind of see how, how you pictured a world tour and whether or not it be something you would support. Yeah, I don't know how, like it, how I could work. But only because I haven't really explored that, I'm sure people could make it work. I don't think it's a great idea. I get it from a product perspective, unquestionably, if we had 45 events around the world and you were getting the best players

there, most of those won't obviously not get in there all the time, but you're going to have stronger fields generally. There's a better product for people to watch, but I feel like there are so much good that comes out of having the fact that a player ranked 300 in the world can still earn good money. And I'll always believe that because the wealth effect is just better. Trickle down, wealth effect is just proving itself not to work. It hasn't worked in other sports, it's not worked socially. So why people think that it'll work in a sport like golf, you know, it's beyond me.

I just think it doesn't work. So I would always, yeah, I'd rather have a net spread wider and more people pick up more money. It's better, you know, and I use myself as an example. I gave my sponsorship money back up for all food for two years in a row to help children to help kids get into the game only because I could, you know, and maybe there's a small act of generosity in there, but there's lots of generous people out there in life who would do something if they could. I was fortunate enough to be able to do that and

I did it and I think, you know, if we shut off that possibility, then the sport as a whole would be worse off in my opinion. I haven't done a lot of scientific research into it, but that's what I feel, and that's my opinion on it, looking at other sports as well. You touched on that, but I think what people can misconstrue as greed from professional athletes is, I don't know, people, professional athletes that make a lot of money don't necessarily just hoard the money and sit

and spend it lavishly on a lot of things. I think I talked to some athletes that talk about, let's go, think about like a professional athlete signing a free agent contract where they go and sign with somebody that offers the most money. And some fans will look at that and say, you're sell out, you have all the money in the world, et cetera. But you're inherently asking them to give up $10 million, let's say, to sign with maybe

your favorite team. And while that can be seen as greed, that's a lot of money to a lot of people, and you can affect a lot of lives with it 10 million more dollars for you might mean that you know down the line and your heritage that means 50 more people go to college And this is more of a US issue because I know your guys' education system works a lot different a lot better But the amount of people you can take care of with that money and like you just said about the amount of people you can take care of with that money. And like you just said, about donating the sponsorship money to youth golf, like that's something that if you weren't,

if you didn't have a good income, you couldn't necessarily do. And it goes somewhere that you want it to go and it has an effect on people. So I don't know, I don't have a question tied to that other than I think that people can view making a lot of money as greed when it's not necessarily always the case.

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you. Oh, hardly on that, you know, just look at how much money people like Bill Gates give to Cherry and Zuckerberg, you know, these are super rich guys, but they do give a lot back to Cherry and yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, it's, you know, an interesting one. Unfortunately, I think, is a bit of an inevitability that it will end up happening. A World Golf Tour. And I see that because, you know, well, I mean, I'm kind of,

you know, not optimistic about things economically moving forward. Anyway, from a global standpoint, so if I was to, you know, extrapolate on that and give my opinion on that, it would be that reason as to why I think it's kind of inevitable that we end up with a kind of one-world tool, just because I don't think there's going to be the money in parts of the world, whether you've been told currently gets it for a whole lot longer. So I mean, but we'll just see. I hope I'm all on that.

A couple more and I'll let you get out of here and then we can actually go. If you had any other topics that we missed, I'd like to hear your perspective on but what would you say you're most proud of in your career to date? I need to reflect more lines and be happier In my career, so I guess this is this could be like way back. Um, it could be anything. It could be anything. What do you, don't even necessarily have to be your career? What are you most proud of? Um, that inherently makes it a lot deeper than it got to, they got to go with what you value and may not, if it's outside a golf, it could be anything. Yeah, I mean, it's so tough. I would say, like, feeding my, you know, six-month-old puppy,

Lily's kitchen, tried food, he really loves it. Yeah, it's a good decision. I mean, I just, I've really struggled to kind of reflect in that way. You know, unfortunately Chris, I wish I had a better answer for you. No, that's, I mean, the struggling to answer that question is kind of, it's an answer inherently in itself. But on the opposite side, what do you, do you have a biggest regret to date or something that you regret? Maybe go all specific that you've done that, you know, you said,

if I hadn't done that, then maybe things would be different. I don't think I have any regrets whereby, you know whereby if I hadn't done it, something would be wholly different. But I remember I mentioned myself seeming to blog a few years ago and I wish I hadn't done that. That might seem like such an odd thing to bring up, but that was always something that's kind of sat a little bit niggly with me. I mentioned that it would refer back to what we were talking about earlier, actually.

It was at the PGM 2015 and I kind of, I felt I ever heard a conversation that he was having and I didn't like it and I mentioned his name and, yeah, I mean, that's sort of the thing that I wouldn't do now. You know, so that, I guess, shows that AI from a chore in that way, but I also, you know, grown more respect for my peers out here. So that's a bit of an all-bone to bring up. But now and again, I think about it, but I also, you know, go and more respect for my peers out here. So that's a bit of an all-one to bring up. But now, again, I think about it, but I won't delete it off my blog because I'm inherently against deleting anything, you know, once it's out there, like I won't amend any of my

blogs because to me, like if you were to read them from me to see that they are progress, so, or storing itself, so yeah. But I totally agree. totally agree with you there. Any other topics that you're itching to burn on that I that I didn't ask about or that we didn't touch on, I think the only one that you brought up was Tiger's dong shot so I'm kind of scared to ask that question but well yeah we could talk about Lindsey Vons. No, we talk about, I guess, what was your take on the Rolex series like from an American perspective? That I had on the list here and I didn't, I didn't ask that and I should have, but I

read about what you wrote about it and I hadn't thought of that. So immediately my perspective on it was, you know, these big money events in the stretch of a series. Any, time you have big money events, it's going to be a good thing. It's going to track better talent. And I'm rooting for the European tour as far as attracting some of their top talent and incentivizing them to come play in events.

I had not thought about it from your perspective and what you had wrote about. But perhaps you can explain it better in your own words better than I can at least about your perspective on the Rolex series, how it affects the race to divide and things like that. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you what you said there about, you know, the bigger money attracts the better players, you know, that's thus for sure, and then of itself is obviously great.

But, you know, I think in my blog, I used Matt Southgate and Calum Shinkwin as two examples, and it was the Calum Shinkwin example that kind of hit him, hit him most to me when I saw that, you know, what he had done for finishing second and then where that catapult with him onto the race to Dubai, and then I just kind of went over to the PGA Tour Felt its cup and just, you know, saw the equivalent position who actually was Sergio, so I went one less, he was Wesley Bryan, and just looking at the results they actually was Sergio, so I went one less. He was Wesley Bryan. And just looking at the results they've had over the course of a season to be in those respective positions

was just eye-opening. One lad, Kalam, who I like, his English lad, I was great to see him do well because it really is good. He's had one good finish in the rest. I don't know if he had one of the top 30 and he's 19th on the race to the right I think I don't know if he had one of the top 30 and he's 19 from the race to the bike at the time, whereas Wes Wesley Bryan, you know, had had like a, you know, a breakthrough season and some great stuff in there. And I kind of thought to me that just doesn't seem right. And, you know,

then go through other, you know, the other end of the spectrum where playing opportunities and a friend like Laurie Canter, who's played kind of decent, but is played for far less money this year. You know, I like the idea of it in a way but I think it has definitely created an extra tier to what was already a two tier tour. I mean, you know, because you've really now got three tiers within the European tour. You've got your top 50 guys, then you've got the rest of the guys who potentially play your Rolex series and that type of stuff, and then you've got some of the Q-School guys. So that was how I felt about it but obviously there's positives

to it and I'd my Keith Pelley you know if he's doing what he's doing I mean it's you know it's bold I'm not saying I would go about it the same way because honestly I don't think we're ever going to compete with the PGA Tour financially and when you hear that the PGA Tour has the opportunity to take every event up to 10 million dollars tomorrow, you know, with relative ease, then you think, well, I mean, the CEO could just, if the PGA tour could just all not the CEOs, not the CEOs, he gets the commissioners, you know, he could just kind of put the European tour back to kind of square one a bit. And, you know, I don't know, it's difficult, isn't it? It's unfortunate that, you know, we have to say that money provides the product, I guess

it's the world we live in. But I would argue that there's other ways of, you know, going about it. And the European tour, I think, are doing that actually in building up the social media kind of profile that they are and definitely getting their players out there a bit more in terms of content. But, you know, yeah, does that make sense? What I just said? Yeah, it does, and I think, and I don't know if it's a quick fix or an easy fix or if it kind of feeds the purpose

and your overall point was that, with these events are worth so much more money that yet the tournaments aren't that much different. The fields are stronger, but they're not, like, out of proportionally, I guess the dollar amount increases and necessarily proportional to the increase in field strength. So somebody that has a really high finish in a Rolex series event is going to earn a ton

of money that goes towards points, which is hard to catch up if you're 50th on the list and not further back on the list and not able to play in some of the Rolex events that it's just a kind of a it's almost like if you want to have these big prize pools for the Rolex events in cash that's fine but the race to Dubai standings that come with it should maybe potentially be scaled back or you shouldn't get the full amount of your own out points I guess that come with a high finish. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's the only way they can do it

and look at more of a weighted point system, like you guys do in America. I think that's definitely the only way it can be done. I did mention that, dinner's the David Lipski, and then he went and had a look at, you know, I think the total world ranking points that were played for, or something, are like the Sicilian Open, and he was kind of put me

in my place a bit, because I think it was less than one if I had some intent. I don't know if that's what makes sense but but then again I would argue that it's definitely not three times easier to win in Sicily than it is to win the Irish Open and because the depth is that right I mean I don't know what the win is called was in Sicily I did play I think it's not like 17 under part You know it was a good it was good scoring, you know, Alvaro Kuros one. Now I'm not saying it wouldn't have been lower if there were a better field, obviously it probably would have been, but it wasn't three times easier to win that tournament.

And the example I gave was Southgate, Matt Southgate who finished Tide Second, which is where I finished, you know, in 2015 at the Irish, and I know from my own experience, what I think is tougher and definitely winning three, one million Euro events is tougher than one Tide Second. So, and yet you're doing less money. So, yeah, it's an interesting one. At least they have the access list to their credit. You know, they will see what might happen and the access list is, you know, it's definitely going to be a bit of a save for a few of the guys. Yeah, and I, so what is, I guess, you touch on Keith Pelian and a lot of the things that are going on in the European tour from a social standpoint, and they seem to really, really give their

team their free reign to do what they want, and they'll reign them in, I guess, when they need to, but really willing to try anything, anything and everything, different plays at styles of format. What of it is working in your perspective? What is not, and overall general direction of the European tour, how do you see it? I think some things have definitely improved, you know, the product, I would say certainly from a social media and a content perspective, you know, they've had some good videos, they've done some great stuff that would have, you know, definitely gained attraction and views that people who wouldn't have been interested in golf, whether it's the little kid in

Wentworth who had shed the car or the comedian Abu Dhabi, these types of videos great, and the players have got to be able to laugh at themselves the way they did and they did, so it's really good. The different formats, this was actually another topic we could have talked about was that, you know, Why, you know, a participation figure is kind of declining? You know, is it the game itself or is it more a macro picture? And I would always, well, I would say it's more a macro picture, right? Then, then looking at the game. So I Would be really hesitant to look at criticizing the game too much and trying to change too many things about the game of golf because quite frankly, golf has been around for hundreds of years through wars, through all sorts of things and we still love it.

So just because we're going through a little 10-year spell where participation seems to be going down, I don't think you should look at changing the game necessarily when you consider from a macroeconomic perspective that the middle class is shrinking. And history would show that the middle class is what are important to the game of golf or a game like golf. So I think they're willing to try new things like you said. And that's great. Keith's bringing on with different energy, which can be great. And he's he's fulfilling his, you know, his objectives really. So, there is, you know, I think his objectives were, you know, big prize funds, more playing opportunities and there's maybe one other. So, he's kind of doing that, but, you know, in a, I don't know,

I don't know if it's a way that we maybe hope that it would be. But, I think along the lines what you were saying that you're donating your sponsorship money towards junior programs. And I don't know exactly what European tour, European tour, PGA tour at all do. Anything that, what they do as far as support for junior golf, but anything to decrease the barrier to entry to playing golf is what's going to help expand the game. And it's not, you put a golf club in a kid's hand at a young age and give them access to be able to figure things out and just mess around and play. I think that is going to help your participation way more than him watching Matchplay or a different format.

And I don't think necessarily it's a European tour or a PGA Tour's responsibility to hashtag grow the game. And I do kind of despise that saying. But to me it all comes down to cost and barrier to entry really. I mean, it's hard for some people to justify the cost that come with playing golf. And that's understandable. So I mean, anything that, you know, I saw a really simple idea at a Brookside Country Club here in Columbus, just a little bin of unwanted golf balls, just donate them here for junior golf.

And like, now a kid doesn't have to worry about paying 12 bucks for a freshly-provis. He can learn to play with, you know, my beat up max flies or whatever. And I don't know, just that's the kind of thing that's gonna expand the game. And if, I don't think necessarily the Euro Tour

or any Tour is trying to grow participation numbers more than they are just trying to increase interest in their product, which is their job. So I understand that. So I'm in support of, you know, trying pretty much anything. I mean, putting T-boxes on top of hotels like they did in Turkey and, you know, different formats, it's fun. It's crazy. Whatever the hero challenge they did before was at Germany this year and stuff like that. That's cool. I like that path and the ability to try new things is something the PGA Tour is a bit hesitant to do.

So I think in that regard, the Euro Tour is a big leader. On that note, man, I'm going to let you go. It's about an hour. I appreciate your time really looking forward to this one. I really enjoyed your insights on the game and the thought that goes into what you write and how you break the game down. So really, really appreciate this one and look forward to. If you win and Denmark, then we're gonna know that no-ling-up

podcast bump is real. So go out and win this week and yeah, that's the luck with the rest of the season. Pleasure, thanks Chris. You got a man, cheers. Cheers. Get the right club. Be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.

Better than most. Expect anything different. Expect anything different.