No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 93: Pinehurst/Sandhills w/ Big Randy and Brendan Porath

Episode Date: August 23, 2017

Back from a brief trip to the Sandhills area, we debriefed with Big Randy about his experience at Pinehurst No.2, Brendan Porath on his Pinehurst experience as a whole, as well as some discussion on... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 93: Pinehurst/Sandhills w/ Big Randy and Brendan Porath appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're narrowed down to 125 guys in the FedExCup playoffs and a reminder that the best place to be tracking who is going to be advancing on to the remaining FedExCup events is the PGA tour app. Go to the FedExCup tab and then click on the projected standings you're going to get hold by whole updates on who's in and who's out. I'm not even sure how this is possible considering I'm gaming the Callaway Epic Sub-03 wood and the thing is an absolute rocket launcher but we're going to talk a bit more later in the show about the Steelhead XR fairway wood from Callaway and its recontored Hawkeye Soul. But for now let's get to the podcast. It's getting right to the right club. Be the right club today.

That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Anything different? Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast wanted to Take an episode to debrief on a recent trip a few of us took to the sand hills area in North Carolina Played a few rounds at Pinehurst and also I snuck in a round at midpines and pine needles and a Lot to a lot to debrief on. I know again these travel episodes are appreciated by some some skip these so if you're not interested in hearing

about golf travel please move along carry on there's plenty of other episodes out there for you but for those that do give us feedback on these episodes and do appreciate them we thank you for that so I'm gonna give you a little preview of what is to come. So Big Randy was only able to join us for one day out at Pinehurst. So we wanted to get his thoughts on number two. He was lucky enough to play number two. So he is up first. We go about 10 minutes there and then Brendan Porre after Mesa Nation was with me for the remaining two days at Pinehurst. was with me for the remaining two days at Pinehurst. We got to play Courses 7, 9, 4, and then number 2 again.

So I wanted to get his input on that. And then afterward, I went and played midpines and pine needles solo. So I'm going to debrief a bit on the amazing work that's being done there and kind of the eye-opening experience I had there. First, we're going to rave a bit about our experience at Pinehurst.

It's, it's, we're pretty blown away, which I think you'll see here pretty quickly about how much fun it was and then the overall vibes of the course and all the courses and the overall resort. So awesome trip, amazing trip. We did not make it out to, there were a lot of courses, a lot of people came up with a lot of recommendations for Dormi Club, for tobacco road, for southern pines, for all kinds of courses in the area. Don't have enough time to get to all of them unfortunately but we're definitely going to go back to the area and we'll definitely take you guys up on all those recommendations and appreciate people sending those in. But for now let's get to Big Randy, then we'll go with Porath and then I'll debrief a bit at the end, so thanks for tuning in.

Alright, first up we're gonna welcome in Big Randy. Randy unfortunately you are only able to join us for one day at number two, but I think you would you would say right off the bat it was definitely worth a worthwhile trip from Charlotte. Yeah, for sure. It was and by the way thanks for thanks for having me on this first time on the on the mother ship in a while. It has been a while. Yeah. No it was it was really cool. It was you know I was fortunate to to be a part of it. I'd been to Pinehurst, actually a couple times before that, had never played number two, but really liked,

you know, it's just got a good feel that a little kind of small town of Pinehurst around the resort. You know, that's more of my vibe. I kind of like, you know, the pines, the southern hospitality. It just, everything agrees with me. So I was really excited to get over there and, you know, with the chance of playing number two, you know, all the better.

Well, did anything surprise you from the golf course? I mean, you've seen, you've been there before, you've watched opens on TV. But is there anything you walked away from that you were kind of surprised by? I was, I did not have a good range session before I ran, kind of per usual for me. And so I was getting pretty anxious about, oh God, I'm gonna be spraying the ball and all that stuff. And so I think what I was most surprised about

on the walk over to the first tee are Catti, who actually was carrying both of our bags, shout out John. He was like, I had warned him, hey man, I've had kind of sideways. I hope this isn't too much of an army march for you. And he was like, dude, you just need one ball. We're gonna find it. And he was exactly right. You know, as the round unfolded, I think what I was most surprised about was I could find my ball and I could play it. And really towards the flag, you know, all but maybe two shots, you know, I could

play it in the direction right at the flag. So that was, you know, for a double-digit handicap, or if such as myself, that was a very pleasant surprise, that was awesome. I think John picked up our bags and was like, felt they were pretty heavy and I didn't even say to you, you don't need to bring more than one ball out here and you're like well I think I might bring a couple more just in case. Yeah yeah that was the discussion I'm like you know hey please let me know how I can lighten this bag and yeah he was like dude we can get rid of like all these balls you just need one of my head all over. You didn't just see that range session I put together. But yeah, he was exactly right. It was great. Were there any

stretches on the course that you found like the most memorable or some of your favorite some of your favorite holes out there? Yeah, I thought, you know, for whatever reason, kind of going out number four and then coming back five really stood out to me. I can just close my eyes and picture that view from 4T, long par four. I think it kind of captures everything Pinehurst is about. Difficult hole. I made a big number but I I thought, you know, for whatever reason, those two holes really stood out to me. And I think the other, you know, kind of number one, green, you know, your first kind of, oh my god, yeah, these are the green complexes on number two. That stood out

and then coming home 18 with the clubhouse there, I'd walked past that a few times before, but to finally kind of get to play up and complete the round there. That sticks out. What is after playing and what is your way of playing a shot from around the green? I know it's going to vary, but do you have an overall, are you saying, let's chip this? Are you reaching for the putter? What's, how you playing from off the greens? That's a great question. So I started out, I was giving pine hers to a lot of respect. So I started out, keeping it low,

trying to get cute with like hybrids around the green, taking putter from eight, 10 feet off the green. And it wasn't, you. And it wasn't terrible. Certainly, you can play that shot. And then towards the end, and I think my score kind of had a little bit to do with it. I wasn't scoring it that well. But I think they're kind of midway through the back nine.

I was like, you know what, screw it. So I took my 60- degree wedge and started just trying to really clip a couple pit shots and play it more through the air. And I had much more success doing that. But I say all that, you know, if I played it again, and if I played it again another 10 times, I'm not sure that's the best way.

But I think what stood out was you can really do whatever you want you know You know that there are so many different shots and ways to play shots around those greens That's that's what really you know made the rounds fun. I Think there was I'm not sure if we talked about this But there's a there's a poster somewhere in the in the restaurant there that talks about there's a poster somewhere in the restaurant there that talks about. It has a picture of six or eight different slopes and the way that Donald Ross approached slopes or Humps and Bumps. You look at the round the greens and you think they're all the same. Then I saw that poster before playing for the second time and realized just how different

every single green complex was and the slopes around the green and how much thought went into it from Ross's perspective on, you know, the slope that is almost vertical that goes straight up a hill versus a subtle one or one that just has like a double bump in it and all these things. And I don't think I noticed it the first time around really

but it helps so much to see that sign and realize, wow, there's this much thought goes into every single bump out there's nothing like that happens out there that's by accident. Yeah yeah see that that was cool you guys I know got to play it a second time later that week. That's kind of how I left our round was man I'd love to get back out there and keep kind of experimenting and and towing with different shots. Because it felt possible. It didn't feel impossible, but I think all of us that first round just kept getting tripped up doing dumb stuff. But it wasn't like, man, this course cannot

be beaten. It's just such a, I don't know, I was blown away by how fun the challenge was. That was my thing. We all kind of walked off feeling like we got our asses kicked a bit, but it was like the most fun way to get your ass kicked, I think it's fair to say. Yeah, yeah. And I think too is like I was kind of deferential to the greens a little bit. Like, you know, in hindsight, I wish I would have grabbed the 60 degree a little bit more often earlier in the round. You know, open the club face up a little bit and really try to, you try to play that shot. Even if it's not the most advisable,

I think I was much more defensive. And I think visually that's kind of what, you can be lulled into visually, home man, very intimidating shot and kind of get psyched out. Or at least I was. Well, I started, when I was taking my 60 degree, I caught myself trying to talk myself into a certain shot by being like, all right, I'm going to nip this wedge,

I'm going to land it on this one foot wide upslope and then it's going to have spin. So when it gets on the downslope, it'll hold the downslope and then trickle down to the hole. And after blading like two of them, I was like, do you actually hear what you're telling yourself? You are not capable of these shots. And from then, second time around, I was grabbing putter, man. I grabbed putter from them, and that's just kind of, I went full-kinder, and once you kind of commit to that, I think, you know, you're a limited, you can get tripped up and make double bowies so fast.

One bad chip, one chip over the green, it's double easily. And I kind of just eliminated the double in that regard and just started putting things, but to each their own. But yeah, I made the comparison on Twitter, I may be some folks all, but kind of my best way to describe playing, it's almost in baseball terms right you watch a baseball game and They'll describe you know facing a certain type of picture guys can have a really comfortable over four and I felt like You know that kind of described

My round and it's like you know you can feel like you're hitting it pretty well and you know you're not making terrible mistakes, but, you know, a little loose putt around the green, a chip that doesn't get executed quite right, and all of a sudden it's a bogey or a double bogey. And you don't really have the traumatic, oh my god, that was such a terrible miss, but it's, you know, you add them up at the end, it's like, oh, that wasn't a very good score. That one, the very good score. And I think that's the beauty of the golf course. You know, I'm not, certainly,

architecture buff some other people are, but reading like Alster McKenzie's spirit of St. Andrews, that's one thing he talks about, is like a good golf course to be very fair, very playable. It shouldn't be this gauntlet or this death march for kind of mid to high handicapers. And while having enough nuance to really challenge the really good players.

And I thought Pinehurst, that kind of, for me, that's what I came away from number two thinking. That was the biggest takeaway for me again. You and Brennan shot, I think, in the 90s. And again in our group, we didn't lose a ball. And I've said this like five times. But as I just blows my mind, we didn't look for a ball once and how there's definitely sufficient tests

but without having to hunt for your ball all day. So yeah, challenging to all players and especially some really nuanced challenges but without having to hunt for your ball all day. So yeah, challenging to all players, and especially some really nuanced challenges to the pros and the true, and all the tournament competitors that play that course, it speaks to the volumes of the quality of that course. But you did get to stay a night with us in the villas.

What was your takeaway with the vibe in the villas? Yeah, that was sweet. You know, it's just, I mean, it's awesome. We didn't fill it out enough. We needed more people. I know, that was the thing. We didn't really take advantage of it. But we got to see it.

We got to see it. And we know when we come back, what we need to blow that place out. Yeah, I'd love to go back and do it right. I mean, those villas beg to be, you know, you gotta do those properly. Big card table, big screen TV. I mean, you gotta pop some beers,

maybe play some cards, watch a game, post-round. And we just didn't have the manpower, really the time or resources to do that. But yeah, the villas were sweet. Next time around. So we were sorry to have to say goodbye to you then. And now as well, we're going to get here shortly. I had a conversation with Bren and Poorath who had a bit of extra time.

We spent three days there. Phil was only able here to join us for one. But Randy, thanks for sharing your thoughts and thanks for coming along and like we said we're gonna have to we're going back there as soon as number four gets renovated that we're going back. Yeah man thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to it. Before we get to Brennan Poorath let's take a quick minute to hear from Calloway Golf the makers of the number one fairway woods in golf. So by now, I'm sure you've heard of the latest fairway wood from Calloway, which is a super-charge version of a name

you are already familiar with. It's a new steelhead XR fairway wood, and with the re-contoured Hawkeye sole and explosive face cup technology, steelhead XR is longer and more versatile than ever. I'm kind of blown away by the fact that there's another three wood in this collection Because I got I mentioned in the in the intro

I'm gaming the epic sub zero three wood and I've never hit a three wood more consistent or further in my life The thing just shoots missiles up into this guy So now I'm only I'm curious as to what this steelhead XR is capable of you can go it's available now So go get it go hit it for yourself at your nearest golf shop today. Call away the number one fairway wood in golf. All right, next we're welcoming in. Brendan Poorath. Brendan was the only one that was capable of the group

of joining me for all three days that we spent at Pinehurst BP. How you recovering? You sound a little rough on your ends. Capable, man. Yeah, I was so injured through it. You know, three days of golf was so hard. But yeah, I'm actually under the weather now. I came back to a wife that was kind of out of patients. I had no time, no time for my shit. And a couple six kids, couple six kids who promptly got me sick. It was kind of like the harshest possible reintroduction to the real world.

So I'm here, but I'll get through it, you know? You're so brave, you know, that's what I admire the most about you, but I think, you know, with the busy family life you have back home, I would imagine you could have, there's not many people that could have appreciated those few days away and at Pinehurst as you could have. Yeah, not many people that could have appreciated those few days away and pine herses you could have. Yeah, I mean, it was, it was perfect.

I told you a couple times, like, it was kind of like a cannibal run to get over there from Charlotte, you know, like the Monday after major can be hectic, Sunday night, Saturday night, you know, we're late nights, you're writing through the night, you're working on stuff and Monday morning, I'm checking out, I'm hustling to get out of there. And then like, as soon as I got there, I thought I was kind of out of energy. As soon as I got there, I was kind of like,

you know, it's corny as I'll say, but it's like invigorating, you know, just kind of just taking it all in. You place you've heard so much about and then kind of see it and walk on the property for the first time and walk out on the porch, look over that whole scene, like the putting green, the number 2T, the 18th green, the number 2. I didn't expect to play well, I didn't play well. But it was really cool to kind of carve out those three days,

even in Wedgerman right after work and then before the family life. I think we were both, I mean, we had so much going on, like you said, for the PGA Championship week, that it didn't feel like eminent. It wasn't like a big build up to it. It was like, well, we're gonna tap this on to the end. And, you know, we were both just kind of struggling coming into that, but yeah, you're exactly right. Once we got there, I was like, oh, this is really going to happen today. I just never understood how I've never been there before.

My knowledge of Pioneers is limited to what I'd seen on TV from number two. I never really, I was always wondering, how do you fit eight courses onto one property? Which we'll find out. There's only, I think, four at that initial, where number'll find out there's only I think four at that initial, where number two is, there's four courses, but still struggled with understanding how you could sprawl out that many golf courses across the property.

Then only to learn that there's like 40 courses within this sand hills area and we got plenty of recommendations of other courses to play in the air. We don't have unlimited time, unfortunately, but we arrived and I haven't talked to Randy yet, but Randy is going to be the first part of the audio of this podcast. We arrived and played number two day of what was, I guess, anything that surprised you about number two or your initial reaction to playing number two for the first time? Here's what I would say. I'm not that could have golfer as you can have tasked after 90 holes. I've been like adequate at certain points in my life, but I'm certainly not very good right now. And so you go to some of these, I've been fortunate to play some great

courses, but you go to some of these great I've played, I've been fortunate to play some great courses, but you go to some of these great courses and it like doesn't really matter if you're, or much hyped courses, I should say, maybe they're not great, but hyped certainly, inexpensive. You go to some of these courses and as like as a poor golfer, a mediocre golfer, it just kind of is, you know, it's beautiful, it's well maintained, but maybe you can't appreciate kind of the hype or appreciate why it stands out from the rest. I thought like number two, I got my blood kicked.

I got just crushed that first day. I was struggling to break 100. I did, but I mean, it was, I'll be honest of you. Like I'm not usually that high, but yeah, I was struggling, but it was so, it was, it was, I'll be honest with you. Like, I'm not usually that high, but yeah, I was struggling. But it was so, it was like enjoyable. I could appreciate why it was so great. I, like, you kept talking about how we didn't lose a ball. For like the poor golfer, it was still really fun.

And I had just come off like a family trip to Kewa. Not to, and Kew was beautiful and like a family trip to Kyowa. Not to and Kyowa is beautiful and like fantastic in its own right but like some of the other court like I played at Nicholas Corks there and it's just like I was wild. I hit it far but really all over the play not far but I hit it pretty well but it all over the place and it's just OB down one side and water down the other right and it's just like you're giving away a dozen golf balls. So you can get some of that. And, you know, at number two, you've never lost a ball. Like, you could play out of the waste area most of the time.

Sometimes you could, and sometimes you're like against a clump of grass, and you just had to come out sideways or wherever you could. But as like a poor, a mediocre golfer, I could really appreciate why it was such an excellent course in championship test and how it was just really fun. It was super fun to get your ass kicked, which is, I can't say, I've really had that kind of experience on a golf course. Yeah, and it's a sign of a great, low design golf course is one that is going to be Challenging and playable for a higher handicap player, but there's still a different level of nuance for a lower handicap player

Or a different level of challenge, and I think this this course like epitomizes that perfectly I mean you can it's it's very playable to you to green I mean you you can hit it pretty much where you want to see if you go in the waste areas Yeah, like you said sometimes it runs up against you know clump of wire grass and but for the most I mean, you can hit it pretty much where you want to see it. If you go in the waist area, as you said, sometimes it runs up against, you know, clump of wire grass. And, but for the most part, that you can play off that waist area pretty well, and it's the challenge is all hitting it in the middle of the green, and when you miss these greens, it is so challenging around them.

So I kind of always viewed it from the outside as maybe a bit gimmicky as far as how challenging the greens are and how it just comes down to short game and getting up and down. After playing it, the more I realize is, it emphasizes your ball striking and you've got to hit it into the middle of the green. And once you do that, the course is so playable.

Once you're there, greens are still very sloppy. They have a beautiful contours to them and it's such a great, they're not funky once you're on them They just have these nice subtle shapes to them and some plots are you know breaking a foot two feet sideways for eight feet But it's not like just humps and bumps that are really random and I think I got a much more appreciation for the way Donald Ross Designed the greens around the difficulty of the of the hole like the third green is the hardest one on the course, and that whole tips out like 350 from the blue tees. And the next hole is 470 from the blue tees,

and it's got one of the more benign greens. Like it meant that the greens matched the shape and the difficulty of the hole. And man, like you said, I knew it was gonna be hard, I did not think it was gonna be that fun. I had so much fun playing that course. It's aesthetically, it's just amazing that the restoration that Corey and Crenshaw did. they was going to be that fun. I had so much fun playing that right. Right. It's aesthetically, it's just amazing that the restoration that

Koran Krenshaw did. I'm obsessed with that look now and then we'll talk a bit about number four, which is going to about to undergo that restoration. But, man, I just I don't know. As soon as you finished it, I think we were both like, man, I can't wait to play it again. We were fortunate enough to play it twice. You play it once and you're like, I can do better. I can do so much play it again. We go for it to play it twice. You play it once and you're like, I can do better. I can do so much better the second time around. Yeah, like you said, I mean, you've played, like we said, I was exhausted, we're crumbling in, it was like two o'clock, and I did not play well.

And normally I'm not enjoyable to play with when I'm not playing well or what I feel like as well. Like, I was still just kind of super chilled out and just taking it all in, having so much fun. Even, you know, I recognized it was an incredible opportunity, but it was still just, I don't know. I don't know what it was, but my attitude and kind of like the way I took it in was different

than any other golf experience I've had. I don't know, you expect like, you know those greens going into it are kind of so unique, but And we've all played false fronts, played Donald Ross greens and played greens with false fronts and things like that And I put it on greens that are running like 15 and stuff like that, but just There's no comparison to those whether it's Foss in the bunkers or the turtleback, obviously, the design. And I worked on a lot of like chipping the second time around and I relished it the second

time around. It was so fun. Like, if I missed a green, even like on a part three or anything like that, I really enjoyed kind of chipping onto it and like the game of trying to get, find the right spot and just hold the green. Yeah, it's not that long really. I think from the right, it's a resort course. So they try to get you moving and it was five hour rounds. I think both times we played it. Which is again, usually a big deterrent, but man, for me,

it was a casual stroll out there. Yeah, I got to wait a little bit. But man, I was in no hurry to get off that course, or I didn't want that experience to be over in three hours. So, but they do try to get you moving. So we only play 63 or so hundred yards from the white teas, I think But I mean these match resort golf as they get out there. It's kind of it's kind of necessary But we took caddies both rounds and I thought that was yeah really worth it You have to I mean you have to just like the walk and the talk in between. It's like totally worth it. You just, you take in more of the chorus when you're walking. You have those idle moments to look around and appreciate it. I think it's completely worth

it. And they were nails on the greens. Both caddies I had were so good on the greens. Yeah. You get just helping you visualize some putts and stuff. So that's a must do. And it's a super versatile chorus like that because like you said number four was like 470, part four. And the next one is a part five that can play a comparable yardage. We know part is just a number. But you know, it's super versatile in that way. Like I think even for the North South senior AM they had them play in vice versa.

Like four was a part five and five was a part four. Like it's just really fun in versatile like that for the lower higher handicap. Yeah, I think that four or five stretches, such an awesome stretch out there. It's kind of in its own little piece of the property, but it is basically two, four and a half. Like I crushed a drive on four and had to hit four iron in

and then coming back the other way in the part five, I had five iron in. Like it's it just it is Essentially the same it's there two different holes, but there's the same kind of level of par they give you one so-called hard one and one so-called easy one It does mess with your mind. It really does. I know par's we talked enough about it being a made-up number But I just love to like the rolling terrain between the holes and you essentially can set up team markers wherever you want. There's not like T-boxes even there which kind of surprised me. That sixth hole is got like over a hundred yards of just a big square where you could put T-boxes at any angle and any distance that you wanted.

And I just I don't know it just didn't seem like a course that was carved out. It just was like a and I know it was the design of Corn Crinchaw for that restoration, just felt like this natural rolling terrain. And, man, it was just, it blew me away. I really wasn't expecting that much of it. Like I said, I was expecting to get my ass kicked, but just did not expect to enjoy it that much. But. Yeah.

A lot of great walks to, a lot of great walks from green to tea that are just kind of one piece of grass. You know, I love that where you're not kind of traipsing through. A lot of great walks from green to tea that are just one piece of grass. I love that where you're not kind of traipsing through with forest to get to the next tea. It just flows naturally from green to tea. It's pretty cool. Anything else we miss from number two? I mean, no, I'm sure you'll cover it a lot with big grantee, but you know, just kind

of can't emphasize the totality of the experience, kind of the whole experience being just so fun. Yeah, well, you were also fortunate enough to get to stay with me in the villa. We had the Reese Jones villa shout out to Andy. And we, I think we both had the same exact initial reaction when we saw it. It was like, we don't, we don't have enough guys for this. This thing is perfect for an eight-man buddy strip. And we, yeah, there's four rooms

that are connected through this parlor, and there's like two queen beds in each room. And it was, like this parlor had two TVs, a table, like tables, it was books and stuff on them, couches, like a bar and a refrigerator, and rocking chairs on the outside, and a bar and a refrigerator and rocking chairs on the outside and a putting green just outside of it.

It was like if you had eight guys in that room, the party first of all would not be, would not stop after 36 holes and it would have been an absolute blast. So next time we're there, we need to make sure we have a crew of eight. Yeah, we were, yeah, I wouldn't say we were super lame, but we did not do the accommodations justice, you know, it was kind of like a quick two night three day trip, but yeah, they know what they're doing in terms of how to set everybody up. It was a scouting trip. Let's call this.

It was a scouting trip. We're going to be back. We played three other courses there. We played number seven, then number nine, then number four. I'm going to break them down in order that I that I prefer them. I think we were pretty much perfectly in line with this I don't like the rate courses, but the Piner's course we played fell out pretty easily for me. Number two would be the first of course Then number four then seven then nine. Would you agree with that ranking? Yeah, I'd be I'd be right there with you.

We didn't get to play number eight. It was closed while we were there. I know a lot of people were suggesting to play eight. And I hear the caddy say, number two is what brings you here. Eight is what brings you back. We'd love to get back out there when eight was reopened to go play. But number four, so four was an original Donald Ross that was renovated

by Tom Fosio, I think in the year around the year 2000 reminded me, I think you even said it when we were playing it, like I bet this is what Pinehurst two looked like before the restoration. Yeah, yeah, I said that in like the third hole or something, just like Bermuda kind of threw throughout, you know, wall-to-wall and not obviously not the kind of like waste area and wiregrass and stuff like that So but so we got to see it now they're they're converting their greens from vent grass to Bermuda So they had the greens were rather hairy for us They haven't fully made a conversion yet and they're actually going to Gilhans is gonna do a restoration

Similar to to create a landscape similar to that in Pioneers number two. He's gonna do this at number four I cannot wait to get back and play that that's gonna be absolutely amazing because we both love the golf course I thought it was a fantastic golf course some really fun holes wide fairways Tons of with and angles all that good stuff The greens were like I said we're not in great shape. Otherwise, we zoomed around that golf course in like two hours and 40 minutes. Right. Yeah, I love that.

That was, it was like kind of a cooler morning, relatively for that week. And like you said, the setup was, was perfect and obviously Hans has done some incredible like restoration work. He's really becoming an expert at that. Seeing him put it back to what kind of that San Tills look, what it should look like for that region will be perfect. It was weird. We really had so much fun when the greens were, they admitted up front.

They're like, hey, they're a little shaggy, they're gonna be gone in like a month or kind of letting them go. They didn't really kind of like trick you into that. They kind of set it right up front. Like, hey, this is about to be ripped up in a month. We just want you to see kind of a set up in the bones of it. And obviously when you take out some of that bermuda, some of that wall, the wall bermuda, a lot of that rough, it should be really cool because it's got a good bones that they're already working with it.

And you loved it. I mean, you were kind of going crazy about it. You loved the setup. Oh yeah, like the 12 holes, the par 5, wraps around the water that was a really great risk reward hole. It's like 5. It's only like 505, I think, from the blue teams or whatever we played it at. And it's just to add some really, really good holes.

And it was perfect, like you said, to kind of see that course first, because I'm dying to get back there and see it post-restoration. Because there's not a lot of courses that I've ever got to play that are, that I've seen get remodeled or restored or renovated, get to see him before and after.

So that's going to be a great one to get back to. But speaking of Gil Hans, he's also building know that I've seen get remodeled or restored or renovated and get to see him before and after. So that's going to be a great one to get back to. But speaking of Gilhans, he's also building and it's going to be in play as of next month, I believe, a new short course, a part three course that's just, I don't know what the direction is, if you come off, you know, if you're facing 18 green from the clubhouse, just to the right of it in this big property where I think they stole a couple holes from the number three course I think but they essentially made a nine hole part three course that also just looks like a the perfect place to settle your end of round bets or like a perfect night cat place and it's right there on the property and you can probably zoom around that thing

and it would easily under an, that thing looks absolutely awesome. Yeah, I mean, we could only, we took it in from like the croquet lawns, you know, that line the clubhouse, we were kind of, you could see how the bones of it and the kind of the setup and the routing of it, but it obviously wasn't finalized and ready to be open. But that's the thing about

Pynast, I thought there's like a lot of different purposes even without the short course in yet. Like there's number two should just be like a total golf experience. I wouldn't advocate like going out and drinking a ton of beer on the course there. You know I would kind of like try to play it and take it all in and there are other courses for that where there's like you can get a ton of beer on the course there. You know, I would kind of like try to play it and take it all in. And there are other courses for that where there's like you can get a ton of gambling and ton of drinking going. And obviously the short course will set up perfectly for that, you know, where it's like end of day, everybody's a little loose and kind of you can go out there with your beverage and kind of settle bets. I know they were pretty

fired up about it when they were down there, trying to get that in and out and up, certainly, because fall is such a big season for them. Yeah, and right next to it, there's a, they're basically following the band and model here, and it's worked so well, and it's perfect, especially for, I mean, for me, when I look at a place for travel, I think for Buddy's trips,

and why this place fits so well is like you have that similar to the punch bowl that went in at Bannon, there's going to be a huge, and I don't want to get the number wrong, the like huge acreage putting green that is just astronomical that's going in right by the short course as well. So I'm feeling this is just going to kind of end up being the evening hangout spot, that part of the property where after you're done playing for the day, you go put around the huge putting green and go play the short course but just just great little ancillary things you know for a golf experience that you that you're looking for when you're out

there with your buddies but I think you and I were both kind of just impressed with the overall vibe to around the club yeah the rocking chairs that just sit outside we kind of finished the round we finished almost each day of everything that we could with a drink out there in a rocking chair and watched the rest of the players come in. It's just a layback, southern living kind of vibe that no one's in a great big hurry out there. Yeah, I talked to like a couple of friends who've been fortunate to play like all of the best courses in the world. And a lot of them came back to me like that porch at number two.

There's like no better scene in golf and just kind of, no better post-round spot in golf for the clubhouse. You know, we had just come in and we were kind of scrambling, like, should we shower, should we go into the village? What do you want to do? Because we, you know, we're kind of on the clock. We kind of just like, well, like what the hell,

let's just get a drink. We had played a five hour round. Like what do we need to do? Should we get to catch a shower and get back? But we got our drinks, went outside and kind of just hung out on those rocking chairs in front of the pain-stored statue. I mean, it sounds kind of like cliche to say it,

but I mean, it was like the best scene. It was completely relaxing. One of the better scenes I've ever experienced, uh, it just felt good. You just gotten crushed, uh, shot a big number and you just want to kind of reflect on the round and talk about it. Um, and this is not, you know, me just saying nice things about Piner. So it was really kind of, uh of an experience I'll never forget. I'm glad we got pictures of it. And you know my friends who are pretty picky and played a lot of courses corroborated that. They're like that that scene around that clubhouse and they put in a new

restaurant bar there. It's like as good as it gets man. Just get your vodka or whatever and go out and just watch players play up the 18th watch the putting green it's just and we were there like right at Dos because of someone's going down it was I'm really happy we have pictures of that because it was one of the cooler cooler end of round experiences I've had. Yeah just went by too fast but like I said we're coming back. Let's talk as well on courses number seven and number nine so these courses you do have to leave the property jump in your car and I think they would shuttle you to these courses if you if you they if you wanted to. But we jumped in a car, went to number seven, which had just reopened, because they just did a

green's conversion on these. They went from bent to Bermuda on these greens, and it literally has opened. I think the day before we got to play it, amazing to go play a course with almost no divots in the fairway and not almost not a single ballmark on the green. I enjoyed number seven a lot. I think I had a great look to it as far as the pine trees, the frame and the pine needles. It is a different vibe than the courses

that are on the actual property, like two and four, that we played. But really, it's a Reese Jones course that was built on top of what was originally a Donald Ross Ninehole employee course. And it kind of has more of a country club feel than it does like a resort course like Piner's too, and you know, you're just so many people around like everywhere. This has had a lot more private feel to it. Really we zoomed around that one pretty easily. Had a good time. My uncle joined us for that round and had a really good

time at that course. What was your overall impression of 7? I enjoyed 7. I, again, was not planning particularly well, but I had a good morning there. I'd say, like, I mentioned there how there's all these different purposes. It feels like different courses have different purposes If you're there on a buddy's trip I would feel like this is one where you kind of like get a bunch of games going get a bunch of bets going Maybe a wolf hammer. I think It's one of your something you guys have become big advocates of in the last month or two

But things like that like where you're kind of maybe you do go out of the case of air, you run a plane on the time of day, but I think that's kind of what it is. I didn't get the country club feel. I thought it was, it seemed like pretty egalitarian. Like it was the clubhouse was super unpretentious and simple compared to kind of the sprawl of, you know, where you have four or five courses for the resort. It was just kind of like this rural southern course it felt. Like, you know, with this kind of really basic and unpretentious clubhouse,

and then you get out there, and it's your typical reshown setup and you can have a little fun with it. Yeah, it was not, it was, I didn't definitely mean to imply that it was pretentious in any way. It's just kind of quieter. It's just kind of set back. Yeah, I gotcha. Back in the woods a little bit and kind of winds through a nice neighborhood. But yeah, some really, really fun holes out there. And when you're gonna go on a trip like this to Pinellas, you're not gonna play number two every single time. And it's important that the the I don't want to call them other courses But the other courses essentially that you fill in with are at least more than adequate

You know, you don't want to be there go to pioneers and you know feel like you're playing a course It's not worthy of being played seven easily fits the bill on that. I mean, I think it's yeah It's not it's not gonna be a man that you play seven But I have a hard time seeing you go out and not enjoy playing number seven if you're there. Yeah, I think it's you just got to know what you're going into. Yeah, you can't get spoiled by it. Number two, I'm not saying it's a bad course, but number two is just a different experience. So embrace number seven for what it is and make it, you know, whatever, kind of the fun games, buddies, you know, buddies matches and stuff like that. So, all right.

The final course we played was number nine. I don't have, I don't have, I don't know if I have the sequence of events, right? But I think this was a somewhat recently acquired course from Pioneer. So it was a Jack, it's a Jack Nicholas course. Yeah. I really enjoyed number nine. I thought it had some really, really fun halls. The back nine was really great.

But it is a Nicholas course And there was some very jack-nickless green complexes and I thought Not as much didn't affect putting as much but just some super narrow greens that didn't really fit the shot shape Necessary for the holes and it's a couple kind of screwy water holes But overall I did I definitely did enjoy the number nine course, but it just had a bit too much Nicholas for me. What did you think? Yeah, I mean, there was definitely, it was golden bearish for sure. I think it's the only course that will have that greens there once they rip up number

four and put pretty places, greens. I had a good time there. I mean, I just, that was the end of a longer day, to be sure, and I just kind of, you know, took it for what it was and throttled down a little bit and enjoyed it, got some beers, and had a good time. I can't, you know, like I said, the green complex just to get a little niquity,

like you said. You know, it was funny. That was, you could tell, was its own kind of head bend, its own course and set up, and it was acquired. I mean, that had kind of more of the hulking big clubhouse and one of these courses you come across and some of these southern states like this in the pines, but Yeah, I enjoyed it. It was it was a good solid afternoon round I you know had a several beers and and posted another high number But it was funny like the starter was like these are the only pan greens. This is why you got to play it Each course has like their own like whether it's like the cart guy the starter They're all kind of advocating for why they're the best

I mean number two doesn't because they don't need it Haha number two didn't but every time we went to a course like oh this is this is the members favorite course Oh, this is the only one with bent grass. This is this this is this is gonna be the best condition like every time There was some guy whether it was the starter like a martial or like the cart guy was always advocating for why their it was the starter, like a Marshall, or like the cart guy, was always advocating for why their course was the best. And we played four different ones, but I thought that was kind of interesting. The guy at number nine was saying,

oh, this is the best green, best shape. Yo, this is the only bet here, you gotta play it. So. Yeah, I did enjoy the greens, I went through actually on the greens there, I did actually enjoy those greens a lot. again not not saying that this isn't I Don't like ranking course because I always feel like whatever you put last sounds like a course I wouldn't play again. I definitely play there again. There's just a comment. Yeah, I'm not an architecture expert

But there's a couple shots you hit you like come on man like that. That's not the shape of the this green should be but Man, otherwise yeah, I enjoyed it. And that was a day. We played seven and nine on the same day. And by the time you get to the back nine on nine, and that he, I mean, it was hot. It was 95 degrees, 90 plus percent humidity. It was, we were a little beat down after that.

But man, that brings us to the end pretty much. We went back out and played number two, but we touched back on that one. We didn't talk about your whole out. You did make a whole out on what hole was that on number seven. It was 17. 17. Hold out for 125 yards. No, no, no, no, 16. 16. 16 is a part three. So it wouldn't be that way. No, 17. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. 17. Sorry, I was just looking at the wrong score card. 17. You got it framed in your house yet? That big two with a double circle around you? No, I think that was, yeah.

I'm trying to remember. I've chipped in and made long plots, but I think that's the longest hole out of my rather undistinguished golf career. So, yeah. Cloud on video. Two of that was awesome. Yeah, that was perfect.

It was one of like three or four shots we captured. Another one was a shank that I Right over the right over the camera that was on the front of the t-box. I met to chop that up and post that because if people are Gonna see your haul out they need to have seen what the rest of the week look like as well. Oh, absolutely. I'm not here to I'm not you know some cloak Smoke and mirrors kind of got put it all out there. I'm happy to have my game roasted as you'll say All right, man. Well, man, I hope next time, I mean, I want to see it next fall. I think four is going to be renovated. I'm ready to go back there once that happens. And I want to play eight especially. And I want another shot at number two. Part of my soul is buried

under the 18th green, I think. But, man, that was kind of blown away by a how many other courses were recommended in the area I'm gonna spend a few minutes here at the end talking about some other courses I played how many more I do want to play but I mean sand hills area it's I don't think I fully understood the the vast nature of the different kinds of courses and how many great courses there are in that area and I think I got more recommendations on courses than I was, of course, I was able to check off. So yeah, I read a couple of books on sand hills, like, Cronop and stuff, and knew that it was kind of this

perfect golf, the home of golf, so to speak, home of American golf. But it's really kind of mind blowing when you're down there to figure out like all the options you could have. But it's, hey, can we talk real quick about your round at number two? Oh, yes, we can. Minus Randy, you were just talking about your soul being buried at the 18th grade. So, Sally, Sally's like maybe the greatest waste bunker player ever at number two. He wanted to go in the waste bunkers more than the fairway I think, because every time he did, he'd send a laser to like three or four feet from the waist bunkers. He started birdie birdie on the second round and over, round, second time around number two, right?

Yeah. Birdie on the first two holes like complete darts from the waist bunkers. It was ridiculous. I threw an eight iron to about a foot on the first hole and then one to about six feet on two. I birdied both of those and I thought I was going to break the one's record. I mean, I was, I played it back too. Like it was, I don't know, I was vibing and I hit like a, well, go ahead. You went out in 34, right? And we were like walking to the tent, T, a caddy. One of the caddies is like, dude, he should be like 32.

He should be like 400. Like 34 was kind of like the worst you could do on most of the way you're playing. Yeah, I had irons into both par five. I didn't birdie either one of them. And yeah, like number four is 475 up hill into the wind. And I just like murdered a drive and murdered a four iron to 20 feet.

Now, it just felt like the, all right, this is the day it's finally gonna click. And it did, I mean, I got a horrible break on 11 and my ball came to rest on a loose branch in the bunker that caught, well, you hit in the waste bunkers enough, you're going to get bitten. So I, I can't, you know, I can't act like I was aiming in that bunker, but I made double there. And then I got, got it back with the birdies.

I was one understanding on 15T and then just pulled, went full out of him Scott. I vogued the last four holes, just a a slow bleed just one bad shot per hole and once you miss on some of these holes like there's no easy way to recover and it was painful it was really painful it I hate finishing around like that but man that was some of the most fun golf player played. Yeah you should be proud of it, man. It was the last four holes of the 90-hole jaunt in three days. And I mean, you went out in 34. So, I mean, what the hell? I would be happy with the 75. I know the Bogey Bogey Bogey finishes something that will bother you forever, but I had to bring it up because I know Big Randy wasn't there for that second round, but it was kind of impressive. It was a show to watch you play

from those waste bumpers. Well, that's what also just helped me add to the experience. And it's not about the round or the number, but it's about getting to experience the course. When it felt like there's something on the line, for me personally, and kind of going through the challenge and the thought that goes through these holes and the strategy of where to leave it and what pins to take on and what holes to just fire at the middle

of the green. You just get so much more of appreciation for it when your game is there and you get to kind of walk through that. So that's why it was just, that's why I was just so top of the notch for me was just you get to get to see it in that light and from that perspective it was so much fun. So yeah, I'm bitter about how it ended, but overall, man, that was one more fun round to golf I've played.

Yeah, all right. I'll let you go. I had to bring it up though. I know. I know. We didn't address it. We needed to. I don't need it to be spoken about.

Hey, man, dude, get some rest. You don't sound too good. I know you have a little withdrawal. Withdrawals over there from Pinehurst, but we will do it again. I promise. I know you're probably just but we will do it again, I promise. I know you're probably just sitting around sulking about this, but I'll get back there.

It's an easy drive from DC. That's true. That's true. You might want to start laying the groundwork with your wife. Yeah, I'll need to do that. All right. All right, D.P. Thanks for the time, buddy. We'll talk to you soon.

All right, see you, Chris. All right, that's going to wrap up conversation on Pinehurst. But as mentioned in the intro, I wanted to debrief a bit on the two rounds I squeezed in at the end at midpines and pine needles. This was only a 15 minute drive from the Pinehurst Resort. And as I always try to do when going to an area I love playing at a resort like Pinehurst, but also seeing what other courses are in the area.

I don't think I had a full appreciation for the depth of great golf that was within a shouting distance of the Pinehurst Resort. I think this is just even more of a selling point for taking a trip to the area. I don't really see it as necessarily competition for Pinehurst or any of these courses. I think the way it works is, and speaking to a lot of people in Scotland, about how they feel about surrounding courses. If the most part of people have an appreciation for what that brings to an area,

brings more people to an area, it brings just more tourism in general, and it helps fill T times at these courses, the fact that, you know, you can, I hate saying check off, but you can check off so many different experiences, and just, you know, with barely even having to jump in your rental car. So, mid-pines was the first place I went.

705 T-time on Thursday morning. I had a recommendation from a friend of a friend, and he heard I was going to Pinears, and he was just, like, shook his finger at me. Like, you have to get to mid-pines. Like, you do, they promise me this, midines and like when we said goodbye finally like point that he goes midpines make it happen. I didn't like fully know what he was talking about. Didn't do a lot of research on it intentionally and I was I was blown away. I mean Pinehurst was incredible but you know about Pinehurst. You know

about number two you've seen on TV. Midpines I knew next to nothing, man, you talk about a vibe when you pull into this place. So it's a 1921 Donald Ross course. And regrettably, I never got to see it before the recent restoration. So Kyle Franz was in charge of the restoration. He was a shaper, I believe, or a member of the core crenshault team that did the restoration at Pinehurst number two,

and he had found some old photographs of the original Donald Ross layout, took the photographs of the current, how it currently stood. So it was restored in 2013, but before that, it had pictures from recently. Before that, photo shopped in some what his proposed plan was for the for the restoration and then was hired to actually do it and I mean man I can't describe I wish I could have seen it before it even have more appreciation when I do finish my wrap-up post on it you'll see pictures from before and after unbelievable I mean the the the whole look and the I don't know how to describe the look, but kind of taking the rough out of a course, working in waste areas with wiregrass strategically

into it, it's not like it's just straight lines up and down the fairway and, you know, it's not, it's got appeal to it. It's got contour to it and it's got, you know, it gives you a look to, it gives you a little bit of depth, I guess I should say. So, like, if you have a 140 yard shot, there's, there's a chance, like, along the left side, they're going to be bringing in the waist area, kind of up near the green, kind of into a bunker. And yet, yeah, it's not just, like, perfectly straight lines along the side of it. I don't really know how to scribe it without showing a picture, as well, but it's just, unreal. It just has the best look to it, and it's almost like you don't want to hit it over there

to mess up the perfect look of it. Yeah, it's just an unbelievable experience. Kind of that, the way the whole course kind of sits within all these huge pines. Again, it's an old course of these trees are huge, and there's pine straw all over the ground. And I was, again, blown away. The first two holes are just so aesthetically pleasing

and I was playing really early in the morning and there was dew on the ground a lot and my pictures didn't turn out even that great but man, I mean that was, it was a walk that ended way too quickly, I think I finished in two and a half hours playing by myself and I was like purposely trying to play slow, taking pictures just because it was that good. I think you could easily walk it in three hours on your own. There's a guy in front of me that walked it in like two-thirty even shorter than I then I made it around. But man just blown away. I got to speak with Blair and Kelly who managed the resort and about... I got to actually play a few holes with them across the street afterwards and just talk to

them about everything that's going on there and I sat in that clubhouse and just actually did some work for about four hours but that vibe is like exactly my tempo. I was just blown away at the green fee rates. I mean during summer for Thursday through Sunday it's $145 and Monday through Wednesday it's $125. After playing it, if you told me it was $400 I would have believed you. I mean I generally could not believe that pricing point. And I know it varies based on the month that you're there. And I wasn't there in prime season. Summer is a little bit outside of prime season,

but unbelievable. I mean, I would check out their website too. There's a lot of information on the restoration there. And then across the street. So midpines and pine needles are essentially one mini resort, if you will, and sister courses and have a the street. So midpines and pine needles are essentially one mini resort, if you will, and sister courses and have a small, I don't know what the size of the membership is,

but it's mostly available to the public, yet they do have members as well. And I actually was lucky to have to play with a member across the street in the afternoon. Soon, a totally different course, so the pine needle sits a lot higher on a higher piece of ground and uses uses elevation a bit more than midpines does. I kind of breeze past breeze through midpines but some of the holes on that back nine especially there's a par 5th there's a par 4th 14th

that's just so hard to describe a golf hole without showing it, saying the pictures. It's just so hard to describe a golf hole without showing it, saying pictures that goes up, like this really tough part for 14th and then you drive up the hill for this part 515 that goes down the hill. But again, framed by the pines, but it's plenty wide enough to just kind of swing away, amazing golf hole and some just truly memorable holes up there. It hit a lot of different clubs,

a lot of, it tests a lot of different clubs in your bag and I just can't say enough about how aesthetically pleasing it is and how perfect the greens are. Yeah, the guy that played in front of me, I think somebody said that he goes and plays it every morning at 7am and I was like that, that dude has got life figured out. But across the street at Pine Needles, like I said, a lot more terrain, a little bit more elevation changes and just a bigger feeling. The course is just wider, but Kyle Franz is still actually doing the restoration on that course, and he can still be seen on the grounds.

And I was lucky enough, like I said, to play with a member and then Kelly and Blair came out and enjoyed us for a few holes. So just kind of picked their brains on customs around the place and their favorite parts of the property. And there's like a stretch of holes from 11 through 16 that just get away from all the houses. That is just like totally like secluded and private quiet golf that was a pretty special stretch.

But got a little fatigued, finishing that round didn't finish it very well. But man, just to get that 36 holes, more of Donald Ross course that just this place that is extremely historic vibe yet had been, you know, the restoration Donald Ross' course, that just this place has this extremely historic vibe yet had been the restoration that brings you back to that kind of original, how Donald Ross had pictured it. I'm still looking for more information on what happened

between the original layout and what happened before Kyle came in and restored it. And again, I didn't get to see it before the restoration, but man, it was just seeing the pictures. I'm like, well, I'm so glad I got to see it afterward. It's phenomenal. And everyone that pointed me in this direction appreciated that because that was quite the experience.

And I think almost certainly a must play. I will say certainly a must play. If you're visiting Pinehurst or going to the San Hills area, if you're not, I preferred midpines over pine needles. Again, it could have just been the order at which I played them the time of day. I played them in my fatigue level, but like midpines is a hundred percent of must play. And if you're there, pine needles is across the street. It'd be a crime not to play it.

That's actually why I stuck around too. It's like, I can't justify coming midpines and not going across the street and playing pine needles. So, yeah, I'm going to have more on this on the website. I already wrote up most of it, but I want to get the podcast out first, but just a lot of information and pictures about it. And again, we definitely want to come back to the area. I want to see Dormi Clubbo, I want to see Tobacco Road, and I want to see number eight

at Pinehurst. I want to see number four after it's been restored. And I need one more crack at number two, because it's still part of my soul is buried under that course. But, man, awesome, awesome trip. Thanks to everyone that helped make it happen. And, man, yeah, can't wait to get back to the area. Thanks again for tuning in.

Thanks for everybody that's sending recommendations. And, yeah, if you listen this far, the reviews have been dipping on the site, on iTunes, which, again, I've been kind of all over the place and not been pumping out podcasts with the most regularity, but feel free to get back in there. iTunes, I'm making sure I'm saying this at the very end, at 58 minute mark or whatever, because only the die-hards are listening this far, but we could use a little bump in the rankings here. We gave away an epic driver once for the funniest rating. I feel like everyone just sitting around waiting for the next epic giveaway, which I don't know if we're going to do again. So, feel free to help us out there and hopefully have some more travel stuff coming up in

September, trying to make my way up to San Valley. Actually that's the hope. But I appreciate the feedback on all these and hopefully speak to you guys soon. Thanks. Feed a right club. Feed a right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I got it. That is better than most.

Better than most. Expect anything different. Expect anything different.