No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 97: Ben Higgins and Mackenzie Hughes

Episode Date: September 15, 2017

In this week’s episode, we debrief with Soly’s Pro-Am partner at the BMW Championship, former Bachelor Ben Higgins. We talk about the great experience playing with Jon Rahm and Brian Urlacher, and about post-Bachelor life.... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 97: Ben Higgins and Mackenzie Hughes appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Alright guys welcome back to the No-Lang-Up Podcast. Thank you for tuning in. This episode is going to be a bit different. First we're going to debrief on the BMW Championship Pro Am with our awesome partner from the Bachelor Ben Higgins. Would not have expected to have had as much fun with Ben as we did. Then after that we're going to talk with Mackenzie Hughes about his season and coming up as a young PGA tour player and a PGA tour winner. But first this episode of the No-Ling Up Podcast is of course brought to you by Callaway, the number one selling driver of 2017, the great big berth epic driver from Callaway

Golf. You've heard all the rave reviews and we're going to continue to remind you about that. And also from the PGA tour note that with scratch, golf is full of strange people and strange things and their stories make adventures in golf. Eric Anders Lang is taking viewers on another tour around the globe searching for the craziest and most intriguing stories and personalities in the game. And season two at Adventures is golf is pretty fascinating. So with that, let's get to the podcast. So with that, let welcome back to the No-Lang-Up podcast. We got a little different episode this week. We've recorded it with Mackenzie Hughes.

This is Wednesday. We're speaking right now. We recorded it on Tuesday. You're going to hear that probably around the 20-minute mark of this, but we're going to debrief on playing the BMW Championship Pro Am today, myself, DJ Pihowski. We're planning to debrief on it. And instead we invited a guest on that, as of a week ago, I could not have ever imagined we would be having a contestant from the bachelor on as a guest on this podcast.

Ben Higgins though played in our foursome today and it was awesome. We had a great time and wanted to debrief with them. So Ben, welcome. Hey, I'm happy to be here. I didn't think I'd be here either, but I've made it. When did you commit to even come this week or when did they invite you? That's a good question.

I decided to come probably about a month ago, BMW semi-an- an email and reached out. And this is a dream, I love playing pro-amp. I just love being out there, the feel everything. And I knew I could have missed this tournament. Yeah. And so about a month ago, I decided to come and hear him. So what, what, get people a quick update on your background,

how you came, you were contested on the bachelor and then, what's the, I don't know if your audience is exactly a demographic. Well, let's start the beginning what's the 45 second version of it? people probably know me best from being on the bachelor and bachelor and so I was on season 20 of the bachelor and I guess they're going on to season 22 now so about two years ago I was the bachelor and ever since then I've been trying to live my life being the bachelor and also trying to kind of wiggle

my way into as many programs as possible. That's what I was gonna say. That might be worthwhile. That is a circuit. I mean, there is like a mini tour of guys who'd go around playing the programs and I think you're kind of giving your way in. Yeah, I'm trying.

I'm trying. I mean, I was joking. I don't know if you guys know a Fanzo Rivera, but he is the host of circuit. Yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying to dream. I mean, I was joking. I don't know if you guys know Fanzo Rivera, but he is the host of circuit. Yeah, he's on the circuit. And that's why I keep asking him when I see what these things and he's a great dude and himself and Chris Harrison, who's the host of the bachelor,

is a big time golfer. And I text these guys and I said, hey, like, how can I get involved in the stuff you're doing? Well, first off, you need a career and entertainment, which I don't have, but they do have. So, you know, now I have, you know, my own podcast and I'm gonna do my own stuff. And so I'm trying to get my way

and to get on the circuit. I need to play better than I play the day, but hey, I'm still fighting. So we got paired with Brian Erlacker. And so how it worked was it was myself, you and Brian Erlacker, and so how it worked was it was myself, you and Brian Erlacker were a threesome then that we had a drawings party Monday, evening at Rigglyfield, which was just incredible.

But you guys both missed it, and so I had a lot of pressure on me. I never met neither of you guys, and I got to come up with, hey, I got to bring good luck to the drawing, and B, I got to make it, choose a good pairing, and a good time. And I had ROM in my top five, of course, I would have chosen. And he fell, I had like the 17th draw and he fell all the way to 17. I took him immediately. What do you think

of playing with John Romt today? I was so impressed with John. Honestly, I mean, he's a young kid on tour. I'm a big fan of him. I watched him from the national championship on to I mean, throughout his tour career so far, which is a short one, but he was nothing but great to us. I thought I mean, he was helping us read putts. He was helping out my swing. He missed his caddy, Adam. They were both, you know, helping me out with my swing and my my approach shots. And they made this day better, which is I think really the,

maybe the pros only responsibility is to help enhance the day at any level and they definitely went beyond what they had to do. Because they don't even have that responsibility. They're responsibilities to play in it. Just to play, really? I've heard stories of like, I won't name names, but you know, the amateurs are in a group

and they call into their sponsor or whatever and say, look, this guy hasn't talked to us like for the entire whole, can you do something about this? And they come out and talk to the pro and say, you know, can you engage? And they're like, nope, I'm not getting paid to be to talk to them. I'm being paid to play in this. So it's not a guarantee. So I think we hit the jackpot personally.

We really, that guy's poured over the con. No, you're right. I I think we hit the jackpot. We're going to redefine print. We really, yeah, that guy's poured over the con. No, you're right. I mean, we hit the jackpot today. I mean, if that's not their responsibility, I just think it then it's extremely kind of the guys like, I mean, I play with Kevin Kisner, play with Zach Johnson. And I've played, I've played with John Rom and all three of them have been great to me in these events. But John, definitely today, I just impressed with, I had a blast with him. It was fun.

It was such a relax. It was like playing with four, you know, three buddies. Exactly. A couple of holes in, you kind of forget that you're playing with a pro. I mean, he goes back to his tee boxes and then, yeah, except when he had drives me by 40 yards, when he tees off 40 yards behind me. Yeah, other than that, yeah. He did hurt a couple of times, but what was in Brian Erlacher, man, that guy was a revelation.

I mean, people love that guy in the city. He runs the city, essentially. But man, it was like a buddy I've known forever, I felt like. Yeah, I mean, I was kind of worried, right? I mean, I've watched this guy growing up, and he's one of the toughest dudes I've ever seen play football. So when I heard about playing with him, I'm excited about it. But I'm also, you know, I don't want to come out here today and have, you know, some

Some super strict tight dude playing golf me, but he was he was awesome lay back having fun making jokes the whole time And and people around here love him. That's a big thing is you you hit a shot It's about four foot For I know 160 yards out. Erlaker hit a shot. It's about 13 foot from 30 don't know, 160 yards out. Earl Acca hit his shots about 13 foot from 30 yards out. And the crowd goes wild, and you don't even get a clap. No, I could not get a clap to save my life today. So yeah, they love him around here and they should. You can tell why he's so likable and so love.

The thing that it sounds like a cliche, I know. But Chris and I were talking about it before. He's so good. I was keeping, every single person that asked for photo, autograph, anything. I mean, he would walk across the fairway if someone shouted to him to take care of him. It's just the kind of guy that you always hope people are going to be during pro-AMS. Yeah. I mean, he was totally, if anyone's driven around Chicago in the last four or five years, you've seen all the hair billboards.

He's put up with all the jokes and all the comments from everybody. He was good nature about it because I gave it, I was like, somebody finally asked him about the hair and I was like, is that on display? He did. He was awesome. I don't know. Again, you don't know what you're going to get with a guy like that. I mean, he could be just there to play the golf.

But we had a blast when we talked about playing more golf when we were done. And yeah, that was, that was like a dream for some. But let's talk about the start. Let's talk about Sally's game. Oh, coming out of the gates early. It was very early. Let's give him that 10 to time. Yeah.

I feel like we put in all the prep though. We did put a lot of prep in. It didn't go great for about six holes. I forget when it turned, yeah, six holes. I think I lost four balls in the first six holes. First of all, it's a pro-AM though. Pars your friend, you can't do worse than par. No.

You're not going to get up there and start hitting irons off team. Some of the holes are 350 yards, but you can't be that guy that hits iron in a pro-AM. So we're just wet cram and drivers down places that they shouldn't probably go. And yeah, we had our moments, so I mean, we, you know, we shine at times. I thought we, when the track man came on, you turn, I did the track man. So the track man, everybody out there probably knows what the track man is. But when the track man was measuring my swing speed, I felt like my game took a step up. Yeah.

John actually looked at me and he said, what do you have to lose? Like you're not in your driver world of day, swing for it. Yeah. And I did. Yeah. I went after it. And it was the best shot I had all day. He had a 14 mile an hour club head speed.

Yeah. Yeah. I bomb. It will be my claim to fame that I out drove Erlacker by about five yards on a hole There you go. You got it's a big deal for me. You got him. We turned it around though. Oh huge. Yeah, it was great Play great coming back in. I think I made five birdies between Scramble to make the cut I think I was gonna say man. You're alone

Might have pulled us to be competitive in this man. You did I mean, I don't think we were paying attention as Close we should oaks we're just having a good time. Yeah, but you might have gone on a birdie brigade Well, so but with with so what's your handicap seven seven and Brian was a six I think He was close to that and I'm like a two so in these we are at a horrible disadvantage I mean there's's, when the winning score is 2500, it's way too hard to do with that. With that hitting group behind us. I think he was getting 16.

Somebody said he'd be like three birdies. Especially when Wayne Greski is an eight handicap at his club. Is he really? I mean, he's not far from it. I've been to Sherwood before. Probably plays 200 rounds a year. Yeah. So 16 was a very generous handicap for him today.

Well, this morning in the pavilion, again, it's like 6.30 in the morning and I see Brian there and I'd never met him. So I just was like, hey, he's talking to somebody and I walked right up to him whoever he's talking to. Just eight real quick. I'm your pro-impartner today, I'll see you out on the range. And then he's like, oh, he stops like,

talk to me and be nice to me. And then he introduces me to the guy. He's talking to me and I turn it was Wayne Gritz. Oh, nice, yeah. Wayne was not that thrilled that I just butted into the conversation. I felt really bad about it afterwards. Oh, nice. Yeah. The wing was not that thrilled that I just butted into the coming. No, really bad about afterwards.

I was just trying to pop in and be like, hey, you know, we're going to go out to the range. So that part was pretty embarrassing. But man, what a day. That was an absolute blast. I've never had, I don't know, I've got to play in one program before, but this was just blew it away. I mean, can you, you got to look around at times like this.

And it can happen to anybody, right? Proams are awesome. They're open to the public. I mean, I mean, can you, you gotta look around at times like this and it can, can happen anybody right? Proams are awesome. They're open to the public. I mean, they're expensive. I don't think any program is not expensive But on days like today's I do feel very lucky for everything that's brought me this point where you were asking me What's the best thing? I did it DJ you're asking me what's the best thing to have in your post-batch? I said I get to do stuff like this. I mean, there's been a lot of up and down This whole thing, but the cool part is, I look around and when Gretzki's seen off behind me, you know, John Rom and I are standing on the tee box together.

I'm meeting a ton of new people and Brian Erlacher and I are walking on the fairway, like, this isn't a bad life. Like, this is pretty good. And then now the no-ling up podcast. And now I'm on the no-ling up podcast. You're streaking. I'm a monitor. Yeah, and have you told all your listeners

where you do this at this week in a hotel room? Your studio is about as luxurious as you can get. Yeah, we'll tweet a photo. It's not a clean up shot. I like to. This is a good. Exactly, so yes, this is the icing on the cake. Exactly. So what, you know, it kind of blew me away

where we were talking a bit earlier, but I Like wholly unfamiliar with the bachelor And so you know kind of blows me away that you go from pretty much total obscurity to Kind of where you are now and you know you told me a little bit about earlier But I just kind of recap a little bit of that. Yeah, you mean you really do. Yeah, you go from being a software salesman. That's what I was at least, or anything. Currently, I'm a software salesman. To help sale.

Yeah, well, you would think. Sales are good. But yeah, and then all of a sudden, you're on a show that nine million people watch. And you don't realize that when you're on the show, it really happens. I was telling you, like, when you get off the show, then all of a sudden you start to realize that people recognize you and ask about, you know, your life and they care about your relationships and you go from zero to 100.

And I think that's why so many people that are part of the franchise kind of get overwhelmed with the attention. And I know I did, you know know right away you're confused at why everybody cares so much and you just kind of want to separate yourself from it but you can't it's kind of like a you get to a point in no return exactly and once you're there there's yeah there's no turning back there's no turning back and then you know for me they offer me to be the bachelor and once that for me to be the bachelor I don't want to turn that down for obvious reasons.

Not only is it a great step in my life, I was ready to find somebody, but it's a good opportunity because life kind of enhances from that most of the time. And in its experience that I would have never been able to get without saying yes to it. And so I'm already a little overwhelmed from being on the bachelor at,

and then I say yes to being the bachelor. And the whole focus is on you the whole franchise is really resting on the Bachelor of Bachelor shoulders for you know six months of of their life a lot of pressure. Yeah, I imagine with again how many people are watching it and you being the center of it and it's not I mean we talked a bit about how they film it and all that stuff It's just as you would imagine not how it looks on TV. No, no, and it's tough. I mean it is it's not, I mean, we talked a bit about how they film it and all that stuff. It's just, as you would imagine, not how it looks on TV. No, no, and it's tough. I mean, it is.

It's a tough experience, but it's a good one. You can make it the best. My buddy who is the host of the show, who is a great guy. And I hope you guys can talk to him sometime. He's just a really solid dude. Yeah, huge golfer. He told me, he said, hey, use this whole experience not to change your life But to enhance life you've already had before and and that's really kind of my my motto going forward and all this is

Hey, is this enhancing life versus changing it? Days like today enhance my life. This is this is a good thing And it's kind of crazy to me too And they hit me again today is you I'm walking in the ferry in Rome is asking me about the bachelor, right? Or Kyle Stanley, huge bachelor friend. Good dude, great guy. But I'm gonna say out of him,

or Zach Johnson, I play in his event every year. Like these guys that are now, like that know who I am, and they wanna ask me me about something, right? Before if I would have played a pro, I would have been chasing them. Hey, can I touch your clubs? But now they're asking me about,

do I eat dinner on the dates during the batch? Or like, it makes life really fun for me. We're having a good time. That was Ram's one question. Yeah, I've reached out to him. Her like, his questions cannot be repeated on your head. No, you're probably cared about things that Ram, Ram cared about the food.

Yeah, Ram's like, they have a girlfriend, rockin' about the food. Yeah, rockin' was like, we have a girlfriend, makes me watch it. And he's like, yeah, do you eat the actual food? Yeah, it's the best. Yeah, yeah. Typing up it was perfect, because Erlocker was like, yeah, we're gonna need to, some answers to some of these questions.

It was, it's all good. It makes it, it makes it more fun for me when I feel like people actually kind of care about my life a little bit. So what's your background in golf, by the way? Yeah, so I played. Golf has a huge place in my heart, actually. So I played from time as a little kid.

I was about five years old too. Time was like 13. And I wasn't bad. I wasn't great, but I was a good little golfer. And I stopped playing for about six years. And then I was a decent football player. And I blew up my knee during a football game. And at that moment football was done for me, right? In high school, I wasn't gonna get back. And so I picked up golf again for the first time. So I played my last two years of high school.

I guess 18 and 19. So about five years I took off, but 18 and 19, I finished out high school playing golf. I haven't really stopped. And I guess when I when I need my competitive Bug or you know, I want to go up on my buddies and play around. This is what I this what I do now It's a game for life. It's a game for life. And that's what it became back to golf. Exactly I could finish this round today and was like I'm gonna go play more over America today and it's like Retired in a fell player like that's what I'm gonna do is play golf now Yeah, so people do everything comes back to golf in some way.

How close did you follow the game and kind of who are your guys you like following? What's kind of your fans perspective on it? Yeah, I followed the game very close. I'm actually, I'm realizing now over the last year and a half, my knowledge of the game is not as good as I'd like it to be, right? So I got to listen more. So I've been kind of investing myself into learning more about the ins and outs of the game. I've always just been a fan. I've watched golf tournaments to figure out who they are. But I love the

guys. A lot of the guys I've met. That's a cool part about the tour. Is I think once you meet these guys, you like them more, most of the time, right? I mean, these guys, we were talking about today. The guys that you see on TV In the personalities they display on TV are probably the guys that you you know behind the scenes right? So like you're your followers and your Zach Johnson's and speech and now Ram And Kyle Staling's like those guys are and Kisner's like those guys are guys I love watching and cheering for him because I I like who they are. There's normal people. There's just normal people who can call them

or just normal dudes. It's so great. Almost all of them. Almost all of them. Not all. No, no, no, they're the unnamed ones that call me today at a funny store. I walked in the locker room before around today. And there's these big massage tables laying on the locker.

All over the locker, because the pros and the amateurs are sharing one together. And I said, oh, and there's this guy face down on one of the massage tables with a dude rubbing his back. And some of these programs, you actually can get a massage before you're around. They'll stretch you out for you. And I said, hey, if you're on the circuit, if you're on the circuit, they said, are you guys giving out massages?

And I was serious. And the guy that was giving the massage looked at me and goes, yeah, to the pros. And then the guy looked off on the table as Jason Day and he just laughed. And I put my head down and walk out the door. I was totally embarrassed. All I wanted was a little background.

Rusted. Rusted. But no, these guys are great. It's fun to be around this. So we talked a bit about what you're kind of transitioning into with you know you tell you're taking kind of what you've your influence that you have in social media space yeah take on a new project now huh definitely man thanks for asking about that yeah so kind of going back to the enhanced life theory I

have been in software sales for a long time, but I've also been involved in a nonprofit called Community Hope United out of Honduras for seven years. And one of the things that I'm doing right now, and about a month away from launching, been working on it since January, is we're starting a company where we're purchasing products from third world countries, bringing them to the United States, selling them here in the United States, and then giving profits back to some non-profits and social issues or causes that we believe are sustainably changing the issue at hand. And so I'm hoping that becomes something I can get more focused on as time goes on.

So right now we're starting with coffee. So in a month we've purchased our first coffee from Honduras. We'll be selling coffee and selling it here in the US. I'm pumped about it, not only for the future at which it can help out, but just, it's a passion project for me. I can relate to that.

Yeah, I'm sure you can, man. That's awesome. As soon as you've told us that today, we were like, yes, go for it, do it. Yeah. You got some questions that, do you know? Yeah, so we were, like I said, we were struggling on the bachelor front. So I called in, you know, the big, righty Graham Shirley, friend of the pod. And he texted me probably a thousand words.

His bachelor experience. And he's, I can't believe you're talking to him. Here's all the things I want to ask. I'm going to try to whittle it down here. He was sitting in traffic, just pulled over to the side of the road, just firing his question. He is committed. See, this is the thing. The funniest part about the bachelor, and I don't care to all your listeners, and you were talking earlier, you love your listeners. I don't care who you are. You can tell me you don't watch a show, but it's just like the kind of the Erlacker treatment, right? Hey, my wife makes me watch the show. And then you're like, oh, cool, that's fine.

And then two holes later, you're like, yeah, but tell me about this. And you're like, you watch the show more than you would of lead on. You like this, don't you? So there's got to be some of your listeners out there that kind of like this. I'm sure.

Yep, go. So we'll start with the easy ones. How long are the Rose ceremonies? That's a good question. So you start out the first night, and the first one takes about four hours As you go on there's less people and there's less cameras so it's less and less time So I'd say the last or maybe if you have four people left It's probably gonna take a good 45 minutes and a lot of that is just kind of moving of cameras and stuff

How much to the producers kind of influence the final picks each week? It's always a question I think people want to assume happens, right? Because the show's so crazy. But I've always said this, if you get 30 people in a house, competing for one person, and there's alcohol and food,

and that's about it, people stop being polite, people stop being real, people stop being polite and start getting real. And so they go crazy, man. And so the producers don't influence decisions too much. They more kind of have this like, they just know everything going on.

And so they kind of have this like almost god type view of the world. Yeah, yeah. So you make a decision. And they kind of all giggle at you. And you're like, oh, no. Yeah. But they really don't.

I mean, for the most part, if you see a bachelor, a bachelor it really, truly mess up, which I kind of did on my season. It's probably their decision and their fault. He says, how awkward are the shirtless montages they film of you almost every episode? Well, for some of the bachelor's, it's probably not very awkward at all, because those guys are jacked. But I had to cut out cheese and carbs and alcohol for like three weeks just to get prepared for it, because I knew those were coming.

Just in advance. And so I was just trying to prepare myself to look decent. And so every time they would have one, this is a little behind the scene stuff, it's a little embarrassing also. I would ask them, and we got to close And for this we said okay, if you're gonna film me shirtless Give me five minutes and I'll go do the the pump pushes I'd pound out about 40 pushups as fast as I could Let myself slow up a bit. They were good to go. Yeah, they were feeling confident. All right. I don't even know what this means

Why on earth did he give us the impression that he fell for both JoJo and Lauren B. A. K. A. Lauren Bay? This guy really does care a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really. Cause that was kind of my biggest mess up, what I was talking about. I did care for him both. And I think that's I will never get on a bachelor bachelor at during the show who likes more than one person right I mean it's bound to happen you have 26 beautiful cool great people that you're investing in relationship in my issue was I communicated that to both pretty openly

towards the end you know why did I do that because I felt like it was the right thing to do honestly I thought You know, hey even if I let one of them go I need to tell them how I felt so they know that this wasn't illegitimate or this wasn't a fake relationship that they know that I really did care and I was willing to tell them that now looking back It probably didn't matter if I did or not and they don't care that but that was my thought process and again That's one of those decisions that afterwards, the producer probably go, oh man, you're in for a good one here. But I did it.

And I can't regret it. I don't want to take it back. I don't really want to apologize for it, but I would say that if I had to do over, I probably wouldn't do the same way. All right, Graham, hopefully that helps. You know, I'm sure if you got any more, just call Ben and each. Ben would love to keep talking about it.

Just give him a call and he'll talk about it. I'm not going to lie, man. Going into that, I knew, did not know who you were, knew nothing about it, and they're like, yeah, you're playing with the guy from the bachelor. I was kind of like, okay, that might be weird, but man, you were awesome today. I was absolutely blessed, glad to have you on. And yeah, I'll have to play some golf, I'll have to hitch you up wherever in Denver. I'll play some today. I was absolutely blessed. Glad to have you on. And yeah, I'll have to play some golf. I'll have to hitch up wherever in Denver.

I'll play some golf. I love that. We need to wrap with the mainstay question. When was the last time you paid for golf? Oh, wow. Oh, I pay for golf every round. Oh, yeah. So that's on the certificate.

It'll be in on the certificate. I'm not a messiah. So I don't know what clubs listen to you. But this is my moment to shine. I love golf. I Like to use my Instagram. That's what I was gonna say. It's all really Instagram followers. You should be able to do what I can I can tweet Fairly well. So if any any any golf people are out there listening Reach out to me because I love to hit the ball around with you. So yeah, I do I pay for golf almost every round now All right, well when you make it on the circuit

That'll probably be Ben Hagen's thanks for joining me. Thanks guys for a fun day and we'll speak soon. Appreciate it. All right Thanks a lot to Ben for joining us. That was a lot of fun. We're gonna get to Mackenzie Hughes shortly But again, I want to check in to remind you guys a few things about the great Big Brother epic driver from Calaway Between the club reviews, the industry awards, the tour pros and the golfers like myself and you, it seems like everyone can not stop raving about the epic driver.

I know anytime I put it in somebody's hands and they try it during around, they rave about it. Actually, during this pro-an, they had some track man data on us. Got up to 169 miles an hour ball speed and a 1.49 smash factor. I don't know what either of those mean, but people tell me those are good things.

And I know that this driver's putting the ball in places that I've never been in on golf courses before. And might have even got a smattering of applause on a couple of those shots. So you can customize your driver at calawayGolf.com. Swing on buy, check out all the eight different colors, color options you have with it. I promise you again, just try the Callaway Epic driver and there's a zero percent chance they're going to be disappointing. Now let's get to McKenzie Hughes.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Out podcast. We're here at the BMW Championship. Join technically for the second time on the podcast by Mackenzie Hughes Mackenzie. How are we doing doing great? Thanks for having me. How how does it feel with all this professional equipment this time last time you are on this is pretty legit. We look we actually just recorded it on a cell phone now I can sort of verify for you guys now before I was like These guys are kind of sketched. No, it's accurate. No, it's pretty sweet. Good. Well, first I want to touch on when we did talk at the players, it was kind of, we did

a bunch of first time interviews, it was first time that we're playing the players the first time. We didn't know who was walking in the door next, we had no time to prepare. And if you did have been to listen to that one, we may recover some topics, but we're kind of going to start from scratch. So first time here at the BMW Championship for you had you ever seen Conway Farms before this week? I had not seen Conway Farms before this week. We played here in college with Kent State. I played tons of great courses around here, North Shore, Scogi.

Never played Conway. I never got to play it in Western. I was a year after, like, oh, nine they had the Western. So I never played Conway, but I heard so many good things. I've played the course now. Love it. It's, I mean, the course in Chicago here just... It's unbelievable. It's crazy. It might be like some of the best in the world. Like, just so close together and just so many great ones. So I live here for six years. And everyone's like, oh, have you played here? I knew you'd heard of that place, and you go look it up.

And I'm like, all right, I gotta go play that one. Yeah. It's a lot of them are private. And not necessarily everyone listening is able to access. Yeah. Yeah, when I lived here, I did not have access to any of these courses, but man, it's, it's

when now you can just walk on to any of that. I did. It's not what I said. It's not what I said. People are kind of to send some invites now, but this kind of segue is a new question we talked about yesterday. We wanted to kick off some podcasts with question. When was the last time you paid for golf?

Mm. It's a good one. So it's been a while. I think last year, so I was staying in Hilton. I had with my grandparents at like a time share. And I'm going out to this resort and I'm playing on the web.com at this point. It's the spring of 2016. And it's always uncomfortable going into a pro shop when they don't really know you, but you're kind of hoping to get a free round of golf.

And you're just like, so this is my name. I plan the web.com tour. You probably don't know me, but kind of play for free. And you're like, you don't say you can have a free, but you're kind of just like, can you like, you work around it. So you're like, you know, how's it looking out there?

And they're like, yeah, it's a $35 cart fee. I'm like, all right, sure. So I paid like 70 bucks for two carts for my grandparents and myself and my wife. And that was probably the last time. And like before that, it hadn't been like for a long, long time. And it's just uncomfortable because even when I call it to places now, I don't like getting like just handouts I don't want people to be like oh you're on a tour like and expect to play with free but I just yeah I call out and just like hey how's it look you know could I come out and you know play a few holes today and I guess it's sort of becoming a little bit more normal but still still feel weird

doing it. I think I think it's worth the club's not worth for the club, whatever it is to charge whatever the guest fee or whatever it is. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's kind of weird. I know I know what you mean, exact space. You don't be like, can I come play for free? But it's a kind of awkward little little, well, is this taking care of? It is. It is. And even when I say, yeah, sure, come on out. And you're still just like, so... is this taking care of it? It is. It is. And even when they say, yeah, sure, come on out. And you're still just like, so free or like,

I'm going to drive 30 minutes. I need to know. I mean, but it's got to be less of a concern now that you're in a short way. Yeah. I would start every conversation over the phone or whatever. Yeah, this is a PGA tour winner, McKinsey.

Just curious how it looks out there. I haven't pulled that one yet. You don't want to pull that one. That one gets around quickly. Yeah, let's do it called up. You won't believe what he said. Yeah, I know I've had pretty good success around Charlottes for the most part.

So hopefully, just try and keep playing well and out to tell him who I am next time. Is it weird now, say like, Zood, now that's here, you play on the tour, you've won on the tour, you're 31 on FedEx Cup I think, sitting right now. So, there's a certain, you probably don't necessarily get recognized everywhere you go, but when you go somewhere golf-related, people will kind of say blah, blah, blah. So I always, if I have a caddy that has caddyed for a pro or something, they always like talk about how much the guy tipped and was he cool and stuff. Is it weird to kind of think everywhere you go?

Somebody's gonna say something about whatever you've done. You're from Canada, so you're nice obviously, but so it may not even enter your mind, but do you ever think about it's like, all right, I gotta make sure I'm like tipping this guy enough for things like that. Yeah, no, it's it that's a huge part of it. And it's like, you want to have a good reputation where you go and the places that you visit. And even when you dislike, you know, if I walk by, you know, a bunch of kids like, say, you know, I'm playing at practice round. And from the second green to the third tee, you kind of walk through this patio area. And like, to my right, there's like 30 kids,

kind of hoping to get an autograph. But I'm playing as a single head of three guys behind me. So if I stop and sign for 30 kids, all of a sudden I've backed up guys behind me and I'm like, well, I can't really sign. So I just kind of kind of turn to the left and walk in that way. And you feel guilty doing it.

And you just like you think, you hope that people don't think, oh, that guy's a dick, he's just walked right by high-ass is not signin But it's so hard and I can't even imagine what Ricky and Jordan those guys go through because They have to do that so many times in the day and there's just no way around you but you just have to If you want to get stuff done you have to avoid that at times and you know, I'm learning that more and more and it's not Nearly it's not a problem for me, but I still feel bad as a Canadian. Leaving one autograph on sign out there, and I'm just like, ah, that guy probably hates

me, but nothing you can do. This is probably kind of a cliche question, but does that get turned up to just 11 during the Canadian open week? Is it much different? Or is it? Yeah, no, I mean, we actually, when we're in Canada, us Canadian players probably feel like, you know, Ricky and Jordan on a regular week. You know, we're actually noticed and, you know, we, uh, we kind of,

it's unfamiliar territory for me, you know, going to the Canadian Open and being one of the, you know, future players, like coming there this year, especially as a winner on the PGA tour and it had a different feel this time around. Then I've played in some past Canadian opens and it's a lot of fun, but you also wouldn't want to play like 20 Canadian opens in a year because it takes a lot out of you. And again, hats off to the guys that you know weekend week out are you out are, you know, celebrities every week. Everywhere they go, that's what they're dealing with. And I mean, I'm sure you, over time, it would just become business and just clockwork, but it is, you know, a big added element to a tournament.

I didn't like sponsor stuff, too. Yeah. Or you are recognized by fans, the more sponsors you have, the more asks, like the tour has of you. And even I, I don't know, I've got to know some of you guys and don't feel as bad about making asks. But then when you think about, sometimes I'm like, man, you probably got like 10, some of these.

Like, hey, can you do this for us for two seconds? Can you do this, this, and this? Do you see that increasing at all? Is that still something you're kind of getting used to? Yeah, it's definitely increasing. And, you know, I guess you just, you try and find the right opportunities. And, you know, if you feel like it's going to be like fun and you, you know, you enjoy like being with the guys that you're, you know, doing interviews with,

it makes it a lot easier. So you guys obviously, yeah, you guys are just feeling today, but yeah, no, it's it's That stuff is growing and then I mean it's a good thing. Yeah, it's a good thing. You Just like now I'm playing the programs now like for the playoffs like you know programs are Proamps, but they're great. They're great. I mean you want to be in the pro right if you're you probably don't want to be in the pro-amp. Right, if you're, you probably don't want to play in the pro-amp, but you don't want to not get selected to play in the pro-amp. Exactly.

And, you know, I'm learning to, you know, obviously the pro-amp's a huge part of the tour, and it's a huge, like, value for sponsors and whatnot. And I understand that, and, you know, I grow there and try and do my best to entertain and be a lot of fun for my playing partners. At the same time, you have to try and make that into a mini practice round, right? You need to just still work out there, get some stuff done, because if you're at their five hours

and you're just entertaining, I mean, then it's not quite, you're not getting your return on that as well. So you just have to make sure that you're slightly selfish on the golf course. Like, just take a minute, you know, on the whole and just say, okay, I'm going to break some notes down or whatnot. But yeah, it's again, there's those guys are going to, their buddies are going to ask them, well, who'd you play with? Because he was what's he like? I mean, he was just practicing on his own the whole time

and you can't have that. Yeah, you can't be, yeah, you can't be telling ISO, but yeah, you got to find that right balance and you can't be, yeah, you can't be telling ISO, but yeah, you gotta find that right balance and I'm trying to figure that out. Yeah. So I know we talk, I do remember in that first probably, did we talk a little bit about your past and how you got to the tour?

You're from Ontario, you went to Kent State. The first question I have though about growing up in Ontario, I've always been blown away by people from the north How they become Essentially masters at golf how you master golf And in a climate like that. I mean were you traveling during the during the winters and stuff to play in other areas Or you what did you do in the winters in Canada? Yeah, I mean, I don't have a great answer

But I mean I didn't travel south when I was, 16, 17, I wasn't going down the Florida and it'll be all that. I mean, I wasn't really doing that on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice in a winter, you make it down for a few days at a time and go practice and play. But I wasn't going to any academies or the lead better school and all that stuff. I mean, it just, I'd play, you know, as much as I could when

I was nice weather in Ontario. And then when the weather turned, you know, I was hitting balls indoors or, you know, then I shifted my attention to sports in high school that I was playing. Maybe it was like volleyball or basketball that I was playing, but, you know, I wasn't really doing much golf in the winter. So it's hard to really explain why we become any good. You could say masters. I said masters essentially, but that's what I mean. Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, because yeah, I mean, I put my clubs down for, I don't know, four months, you know, and pick them up periodically. And then in the spring, you just start playing again. And you're like, you just expect to start playing well. And you're like, now if I did that, I mean, I'd miss the ball. I don't know what I do. I mean, I play year round now. And if I take a week off, I get back.

And I'm like, you know, a deer on ice. You know, I'm just like, what do I do? Like, where, how do I hold this thing? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's really weird, but when you don't know anything else, it's just normal. So I think that's probably the biggest thing

that we don't know anything else. And if you go from, like if I lived my life from 0 to 18 in Florida, and then did a repeat, and did 0 to 18 in Ontario, and I was like, what do I do in the winter now like you know I can't play 24 or seven you know 365 no you can't and so but yeah I think it just comes down to not knowing anything else and then just you know putting your head down going to work in the summer Kind of maybe save you from burnout too. Oh I think it's huge even now, you know, I've looked at going down to Florida, but I still like being in Charlotte because, you know, we get that change in season and

then in the winter, I don't really feel obligated when it's 40 degrees and, you know, raining sideways to go outside and grind. So I'll get my time off in the winter and can't have the refresh button. And yeah, I think it it's it's really nice not to be in it all the time So how did you end up at Kent State Her page, you know, I was probably the main reason, you know him being from near Toronto that was a Big pole and I I knew some guys there before I got there and so I just I wanted to I mean that made it a lot easier to pick that school knowing that I was gonna know a few guys there and then I

almost went to Penn State and you know that would have been fine too I'm sure I mean I sure I'm sure would have been great but I didn't think I was gonna get as masterful under those coaches. And not that they weren't great coaches, but I just knew her page. I produced some really great players. And I just felt that was the right path. And I mean, I have zero regrets going there.

I loved every minute of it. And there were some hard times. And there were some times where, you know, Herbert and I, you know, we had some, you know, difficult conversations and some hard to hearts when I either wasn't playing well or things weren't, you know, all rainbows and sunshine. But, you know, I think it made me a way better player and I went into Kent State, not knowing if I'd be good enough really to play professional golf and came out, thinking that I was on the right track to play professionally.

So that kind of answers a line of questioning I had there, but I asked how you end up Kent State because you immediately answered with her page, and that doesn't go on your bio, right? It goes to Kent State, but that's what people, I think, most myself included, or your mind is trained to wonder, how did you end up at that school in particular? right? It goes to Kent State, but that's what people I think most myself included or your mind is trained to wonder like how did he end up at that school in particular because you know, not what even necessarily about the school, it was for you as the coach and that's what guided you the most. Yeah essentially not essentially.

Essentially is not somewhere you wouldn't want to go. Yeah. I was want to know the lead factor. Some people say it's the golf course, it's the practice facilities. And then you know I would say would say second was the practice facilities, which they had just put in like a year and a half before I got there. And it's like a two and a half million dollar facility that, you know, for indoor purposes and for being in North East Ohio is a must. And well, look at this recruit. He's just a very pretty plug right here. Yeah, it is so good. Go flashes. All you top recruits out there. It's take no. Stim dining is good. Yeah, I mean, the girls, the girl to guy ratio at Kent State is, let's see, it's, it was like a 68% female enrollment when I was at Kent State to 32%. Man, eyebrows just went vertical

Golden flashes Young all you young golfers out there KSU, baby So after college you went Play the P.D.ator Canada in 2013. Yeah, you were the order of merit winner there and you went to the web.com tour in 2014 you made seven out of four out of 20 cuts that year What what is the biggest difference between you right now and you in 2014? There's a lot that's different, but I would say first and foremost the the difference would be the confidence that I have now Certainly my golf game has has has polished and improved as well, but I just got beat

down a little bit. I played okay out there and I was like you watch me play around a golf in 2014. You wouldn't go, well, this guy's lost. He doesn't know what's like left and right. I hit it fine. I chip it fine. You know, and nothing was like off. I just, you know, I would shoot a lot of 70, 69, 71, 72,

and they just weren't going anywhere on the web.com. And you got to go, you got to take a deep out. Oh, yeah. And I just, and I wasn't putting well at all. And, you know, now if you were to ask me what the strength of my game is, I would say is my putting. And in 2014, you know, I potted a bismill. I was just terrible.

I mean, I, and I potted a bismill. I was just terrible. I mean, I and I lost so much confidence and week in, week out, you're, you know, trying different things, trying different putters and I just, I was searching way too much and now I, I know what works. I know, you know, I got two or three things I'm working on all the time and I'm not trying to find some magical, fairy dust to sprinkle on myself that'll just make me an amazing player all of a sudden. I know it works and I stick to that and just try and just get a little bit better each and every day. But again, I just think confidence in this game is so big and now that I have won on

the web.com and the PGA tour and I've I've valed it to myself that if I go out there and play really good golf you know I can I can win no question and it'll have to like wonder all of it so if I'd only finished fifth on the PGA tour and I said oh yeah my good enough it's good enough to win well if I hadn't won yet it's one thing to say it but you can always draw back on it yeah but doing it and be like okay I won and are some classic and I know I can do that again and that's that's I would say the It's one thing to say it, but you can always draw back on it. Yeah, but doing it and be like, okay, I want to know our same classic. And I know I can do that again.

And that's, that's, I would say the biggest difference. Because I mean, so 2015 essentially, essentially feels like a reset year. You went back to PGA to work Canada played well there. 2016, you're playing web.com. You win on web.com, get your tour card through that. And then you win before 2017 even comes about. Does that feel like just a meteoric rise of 2015? I was playing PGA Tour Canada.

Now I'm a PGA Tour winner. Not just on the tour, but I've won. Did that feel? Yeah, I mean, and that's like, and that's a year and a half later. I mean, the middle of 2015 to the fall of 2016, being a PGA Tour winner, you know, I never would have believed someone that they told me that, you know, not thinking that I couldn't do it, but just like, would it happen that fast? Probably not. And what's crazier about the 2016 season

is, and this kind of gets lost a little bit, is that the first half of 2016, I kind of felt, you know, it was going similar to 2014 like I started out first half of the year and I was playing Good golf, but I kept finishing like 30th to 50th and I just couldn't kind of get anything going and I Entered the I think 12 or 13th of the season, the Peakin Peak Web.com event. And I wasn't in the field, went to the Monday qualifier, shot 69 didn't get in. And the next day, like four or five, maybe even six people withdrew within the span of 24 hours. And I got in the tournament by some miracle.

Food poisoning. I mean, I don't know what was. I mean, the runs, I don't know. And I get in the tournament Tuesday around lunch. And I go on to finish fifth for my best career, web.com, finish that week. And then from there, I just started snowballing some confidence.

And I won six weeks later. And then another eight weeks later, I went on the PGA tour. And you're just like, where am I, what plan am I on? Like now I'm in the masters and I'm going to Capulua and you're just like, wow. There's, there's, go ahead. I know this is probably hard to answer

because you do have a win, but it feels like there's something to be said for getting that win so early and just having it out of the way. It seems like you look at guys like Patrick Rogers or someone kind of comes to mind. And's almost like you know having being close and being close and it almost seems like you build up some scar tissue and you kind of didn't even have enough time to do that on tour. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Yeah, no, it totally does and I you know, you look at guys that are on tour that are you know amazing players and you think they've been on tour at 9, 10 years,

and they haven't won, but they've been so close. And they're just so, they're proven great players. And you're just like, how is this guy not won yet? But yeah, you're right. I mean, just the build up a year after a year. And I was like, oh, yeah, this guy, he's had 250 starts. And he just had 58 top 10s. He's never cracked the seal on the win. the win and I mean yeah to win early you know

not only being a rookie just like secure playing status for the next couple years there's no better time a year to win honestly than when you did no I mean that exemption for two years after that season ends yeah I mean not only you're playing your rookie season, you know, basically stressed for you now the rest of the way. And now you say that, but it's like, you still want to play great golf. You don't just go out there and like,

you know, start going for from 295 yards over water, but, um, yeah, so you just like that part of it, you know, and then the two years after that. And then, yeah, it's just those guys though, I mean, yeah, you're right. I can't imagine carrying that weight around, you know, five, six, seven years down the road, and being like, I know I'm good enough,

but I've been so close to the main times that I haven't closed a deal. And then it just creeps in your mind. And so, just look at the playoff you're in though. I mean, there's five you guys, right? And you went from being, as of Monday, I mean, there's five you guys right and you you went from being on the as of Monday, I think there were four of you left at that point. You're in probably the the biggest disadvantage before your putt from off the green. You hold a par putt from off the green. So you went from probably the lowest odds at the four of them to winning. You make it and then

the following three guys missed puts in Vijayga's this putt was pretty short putt. Yeah, I mean, you can just see how I I don't wanna say that, I don't wanna call that an element of luck, but the element of roll that out again. I know, I mean, just like, how could you have predicted that? Right. Like if you were to pause time,

as we're all putting for par, and you had Vegas layout odds for all four of us, I mean, my odds would have been just crap. Right. And like if you had the odds for me winning on that whole, I mean, right. You would, you know, astronomical. You would put a dollar to win a million. I think it would have been just nuts. And I mean, but I told myself when I had that put, I just said, you know what, if I can, I mean, I was like, this sucks, but if I can make this somehow,

you know, all of a sudden it flips on everyone else. Like, third of a second, now I have to make just to, you know, to extend. And I just thought, you know what, hammer. I'll just, I'll make it throw, yeah, throw the hammer. Throw a fist bump out of them, like, wake them up. And it's like, like, I'm here, you know, I'm in with par, let's see what you got.

And I mean, it worked out and I, and never in a million years where I thought that was going to happen. And I literally thought there would be two guys make it at least one. And I'd be one to 18, right? And yeah, I guess you can call it a good fortune. Yeah. Whatever you want to call it. But it's just so many.

I mean, guys like Charles Howell, I think he is something like 26 or 27 top three finishes on tour I have two wins. He's a machine like I made $35 million something like that Yeah, and he hit a perfect putt to win at quick and loans last year and it just fell low like it barely fell low And it's just again, that's that those those thin margins Just yeah, well how about the year at at the Buick or I don't know what it would have been called back then when he hit fell low and it's just, again, that's those thin margins. Yeah. Well, how about the year at the Buick, or I don't know what would have been called back then when he hit the, uh, Tory hit the panel on every second hole with a wedge, was back in the water.

You're like, oh, relatable problem. In the name, right? Don't hit it so good. Like, I mean, that's just stuff that you just can't predict and golf is just weird that way. It's amazing. Did you ever, you know, in that time when you were playing web and PGA Tour Canada, did you ever feel, I always try to illustrate as best I can, how many guys there are at that level?

I mean, you look back at, you know, you have the tour group, which is a small, small-ish group in relation. You have the, like, the web group, which is still relatively small. And then you get to that PG-A-TOR Latino-America, Canada group, and that mini-tour-ish group worldwide. I don't know a way to illustrate exactly how many guys are in that group. Did you ever feel like you were potentially going to blend into that pack and not be able to make it out of it? Or when you're while you're there, where you're there, I have something that these guys necessarily don't have. It's okay, that is not too bragging to say that, you clearly do have it. I, yeah, even when I was struggling, I still thought that,

you know, I had something mentally that I think other guys didn't, and you know, I just think sometimes it's the willingness to do stuff that other guys didn't. And I just think sometimes it's the willingness to do stuff that other guys aren't doing. And I still had that even when I wasn't playing that well. And I just thought, if I kept doing the right thing, they just thought that there was going to be a time where they would just break out. But there were times where I literally wanted to quit.

I mean, there were times that golf just seems to constantly beat you down. And I had a couple of years there where it was beating me down pretty hard. And I'm like, maybe it's not for me. Maybe it's just not going to happen. But then, literally, I had those thoughts. And a month and a half later, I'm charging on web.com tour. I win.

And then two months later, I win on the PJ tour so like to go from where like the darkest of darkest points in my playing career to like six months later I'm like well let's go. I've got it. Yeah that's a school. Try down my nowhere lane. When things are dark like that what's going wrong or what's kind of the I think you know sometimes it's just like compounding your like sometimes you get so down yourself and then like you just it feels like every bad bounce you can get goes the wrong it goes the wrong way that like it just it just creeps in the water or you know hit the lip of the bunker and rolls back in and

so that bouncing forward and I think you almost like can't get over how like it's going. You're just like can't get over that hump. And be like, I'm going to just remain positive. It just like keeps beating you down. And I think you just get more and more negative. And I don't know. It's super hard to climb out of those funks. And I think it's really important

to have people around you that can lift you up. Because if you're doing it alone and just trying to find a way out yourself, it's really important having people around you that can lift you up because if you're doing it alone and just, you know, trying to find a way out yourself, it's, it's really hard and I mean, man, what a, what a hard, hard game. I mean, I just, I can think back to so many times, I'm just like, I don't know, like, when I'm going to start playing well again or like, or it's like, I'm playing playing fine but why am I not shooting like 68 I'm shooting 71 or 72 and it's like one shot or you know one momentum swinging around where it's like if I could just make this 840 for par maybe it changes the outlook of my day and you miss it and you're just yeah here we go again you know and so I think you know a lot of it's just mindset

and being able to like really keep your your head in the game I think a lot of it's just mindset and being able to really keep your head in the game. I think sometimes it's so easy to just not pack it in, but you're just like, well, yeah, that's going to be a bad bounce. It's on the fence of it. It's going to be a little bounce or a little bounce. That's probably a little bounce. Who cares? You expect it to be the worst.

I think that's kind of like, you can get really dangerous when you go down that road and start getting really negative. And you just have to, you know, get the find a way to flip that switch. And just, I mean, the only way you're gonna get out of it is if you can kind of just look at it and work last half full and like, okay, it's gonna turn around. Like, you know, I can only miss so many parts.

Like I can only, you know, shoot 71 so many times. I was like, I'm gonna start getting some momentum here. So yeah, it's, well, I mean, yeah, it's just funny to hear. I mean, you're, with your 26. Yeah. Like you've sound like you're 36. That's been through absolute hell.

Like your struggles are in the past, we're relatively short lived, which is that some guys battle it for so much longer. That's what's so I don't know So it's what's pretty cool about your story what What would you say or something like some major lessons you've learned in first full year on the PGA tour What's your like some of your most valuable lessons that you've learned last one will let you get out of here? I

I think that the biggest thing I've learned and this will I don't want this to sound Bad in any way, but just that all these guys are very human. And before we get any out of two, I was like, these guys are like all robots, I'm convinced. I don't need shots. I only watched my TV, just flush it and shoot 25 under par on hard-ass golf courses. And I'm like, I don't know if I can do with these guys. And then I get out here full-time, play with a lot of guys. And I see, okay, they all miss shots, they all miss putts, and look very human at times. And that's not, I mean, I do the same thing. And it's refreshing to see that it happens to everybody. And I've played with Phil and Jordan and Henrik, and it's done to great guys, and they make mistakes,

even the top guys in the world make mistakes. And that's been really nice to see, not in a, like, I want you to screw up kind of way, but just in that, like, okay, it doesn't have to be perfect golf, and guys are gonna be human. And then it's okay for you to be perfect golf and guys are going to be human and then it's okay for you to be human too. So I think it gives you a bit more of an ease.

Just coming out into a tournament and being like, okay, I don't need to be perfect. I just need to be good enough and guys, there's going to be mistakes. I can make bowies. That's fine. And I think that kind of eases me into, first year as playing with Phil, starting out in Napa, and he's like hitting it kind of everywhere. And he's like, he does that. You know, he shot like, you know, awesome every day. I mean, he shot 68 and 69 when I played with him and I was like, I Didn't see him for half the whole, but I mean, you know, but again, it's just watching those guys. It's just it eases

Your mind a little bit thinking, okay, I mean, there's some exceptional talents, it's just watching those guys. It's just, it eases your mind a little bit thinking, okay, I mean, there's some exceptional talents out here in the top four, five, six guys in the world are, you know, probably not human, nine deeps in the time, but they are human occasionally. And but everyone else is human and, you know. That's one of the takeaways I've had too is I've watched some of these guys top guys hit really bad shot

Sometimes and that that helps me be like you know what you can't get mad when you hit bad shots These guys do a perfect like for a living and they are so imperfect I think that's why we always say also if you're ever going to a tournament go watch someone play Yeah, don't necessarily watch the leader just follow them around the way Maybe go early on a Saturday and watch a guy that like just made the cut and see how you know like I mean how about two years ago I mean tiger at a memorial when you shot like 85 yeah that was that player intimidation though yeah CP all right Mackenzie now you got to run dinner but thanks for poppin by and know we've been trying to do this for a while so appreciate you come back on for a fuller length interview

enjoy the best of luck this week and hopefully see you in Atlanta as well. Thanks, thanks guys. Get a right club. Be the right club today. Better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.