No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Knives out: GOP infighting begins to replace Karoline Leavitt

Episode Date: August 23, 2026

The battle to replace Karoline Leavitt heats up. Brian interviews Tommy Vietor from Pod Save America and the Democratic nominee for the US Senate in Minnesota, Peggy Flanagan.Support Peggy: https://peggyflanagan.com/Written by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The battle to replace Caroline Levitt heats up, and I've got two interviews, Tommy Vitor from Pote of America, and the Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate in Minnesota, Peggy Flanagan. I'm Brian Taylor Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. With Caroline Levitt set to leave her post as White House Press Secretary at the end of August, the battle to replace her is now heating up. So the odds-on favorite to be Trump's top sycophant was, of course, Scott Jennings, but now it looks like the knives are out because another Trump ally spoke out against that possible choice.

Matt Gates took to Twitter writing, Scott Jennings for Press Secretary is a bad idea. And he included a screenshot from a CNN opinion piece written in 2001 by Scott Jennings, titled, Trump caused this insurrection and every Republican must condemn it. Now, first of all, is Matt Gates merely looking out for Trump's best interest? Or is Matt Gates looking out for Matt Gates? Like, I've been around politics long enough to know that virtually everybody is self-interested, literally everybody in the MAGA coalition is self-interested,

and Matt Gates especially, who's been relegated to hosting a show that nobody watches, on a network nobody watches, after his very unceremonious departure from Congress amid allegations of sex trafficking of a minor, is probably not how he wants his political career to end. So if anybody had a vested interest in lifting up himself, it is Matt Gates. Although, I must say, if there's anybody who appropriately represents an administration currently engaged in the cover-up of a pedophile ring, it is probably the guy who himself is consistent. intending with allegations of sex trafficking of a minor. So if Trump is looking for a good fit, I'd say that this one fits like a glove. But in opposition to Gates' point, if someone at some point, having had the spine to speak out against Trump was disqualifying, nobody would be working in this White House. Here is just a small smattering of what Trump's own current officials said back when they

had an ounce of their dignity still intact. We're on the verge of having someone take over the conservative movement in the Republican party who's a con artist. Donald, you're a snibling coward and leave Heidi to hell alone. I'm a never-trump guy. I never liked him. All I can say is count me out. Enough is enough. I've tried to be helpful. We were really trying hard to figure out how do we hold a president accountable

that put all of our lives at risk. There's no question, none. If President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. So the fact that somebody in Trump's orbit told the truth before they sold their soul to him isn't the exception, it is the rule.

It shows the truth about this movement, which is that all of the people who are employed by Donald Trump know better, but it was politically and financially and personally more beneficial to them to sacrifice their dignity and morals and values in exchange for fealty to the God King. They all know better.

They just don't care because power or proximity to power is more important to them than standing for anything. So Matt Gates can point to, you know, a previous iteration of Scott Jennings, having once done the right thing as if it's disqualifying, but in fact, there is nothing more appropriate for Donald Trump's White House

than tapping somebody to speak for Trump who once had some dignity and then sold it the moment they realized how much more lucrative it was to breathlessly defend him. So look, between somebody like Matt Gates and Scott Jennings, Donald Trump will certainly have a tough time choosing. You've got an accused sex trafficker on one hand

versus a shameless sycophant on the other. Truly all of Trump's favorite things. But whoever he chooses, I'm sure that person will be well prepared to lie on behalf of somebody who couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it. Next up are my interviews with Tommy Vitor and Peggy Flanagan. No lie is brought to you by Zock Doc.

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So I'm going to throw to a quick clip that I covered on this channel earlier today and then we'll come back and talk about it. I am your guest host, Rosie O'Donnell. A special hello to those of you watching from home and from the White House. But I do have some bad news for President Petty Roosevelt. That's all I'm going to say about you tonight, sweetheart. So you got to realize it's time to hang up your wig and let Natalie tuck you in. Time to go nighty night. So Tommy, you can see now that this has gone from containment within the political zeitgeist into pop culture.

To what extent do you think that that's going to be a problem for Trump as he tries desperately to contain this thing? I mean, I just think this story is inherently very weird and it's completely fair game. And because the White House flipped out about it, John Ossoff's original clip where he lands this hit on Donald Trump has over six million views on Twitter alone. Yeah, it's like the Streisand effect to the nth degree. To the nth degree. And so not only like, so this was a story, like all these political reporters know who Natalie Harp is. She see, they see terror with Trump everywhere. They're like, who is this young 35 year old person who literally sprints behind him on the golf course with a printer to print out good news about him and then like writes him these insane letters that were so weird that apparently.

the Secret Service took notice. And so they've all wanted to dig it to the story. They all wanted to understand it. And so Assoff's line gave them an opportunity to call their editors and be like, we've got to do a feature on this. But the fact that it's now like a late night fodder, like people are making jokes about it. Everyone's wondering who Natalie Harp is. Like Trump, like, you're right. It's the stricent effect. Like Trump puts so much attention on this story because of how he and his surrogates flipped out. We have seen so many instances of this administration bungling whatever it is they're doing that a lot of stuff has left containment. A lot of stuff has moved from politics to the cultural zeitgeist.

We saw it with the Epstein Files, for example. People are still talking about that. Normies are still talking about that. The ice shootings left the political, you know, political containment in a huge way to the point where the whole country was talking about that stuff. A world, really. And now we have this. And so the Trump administration is kind of being, what is it, hoisted on their own,

partard because, like, this is something they benefited from in the lead up to 2024. They were able to kind of manage or run all of these cultural issues to their own benefit. And now they are the victim of so many different political narratives that have, you know, garnered a massive amount of attention among people who are generally apolitical or nonpolitical. Yeah, it's just like, it's like also a mindshare thing. You know, like a normal president and a normal presidency would be trying to focus on your message of the day, whatever it might be. Trump obviously is an idiot and is like doing nonstop press.

about his ballroom or the construction of like the heliport or whatever this dumb granite circle thing that he's building for the helicopter to land on um the helipad sorry um and this is another thing where the entire administration is now seemingly focused on defending trump from some sort of vague charge about his relationship with natalie harp and to be clear john ossoff never suggested that there was anything sexual about it no no all he said was that Trump was that not interested in helping regular people. He was focused on his ballroom and on flying with Natalie on, you know, a flying palace from the Emir of Qatar. All he said was with Natalie, which is objectively true. And now you have people coming out and saying, how dare you smear her like that? And I think

that it's their own insecurity. It's their own accusations really being borne out into the surface. It's the Trump defenders who are assuming that everyone's saying they're having an affair. Right. Because it's really weird. They have this strange relationship. But the byproduct is that of that, is that they're giving a massive platform to a really effective communicator in the Democratic Party. Like John Ossoff, young, charismatic, articulate, able to go on right-wing media. And his pet issue, the principal focus of his campaign is Trump's corruption. So you're going to hand a massive megaphone to the guy who is exploiting one of Trump's principal weaknesses and you're doing it, what, 75 days out before the midterms?

And John Ossoff is running for Senate in Georgia. This was supposed to be one of the top races in the country, the most hotly contested, the most targeted. Instead, he is kicking the shit out of his opponent because he has been able to drive the narrative week after week after week, in part because of the corruption hits that you just mentioned. Like, he has been laser, he is like one of the more on message people I've interviewed. I'm sure you've interviewed him too. It's like, even when the mics go off, it's like, it's hard to get him to kind of goof around. No, he's, he's like a serious person.

He's really serious. Like my, you know, he's a young guy. I'm like, oh, this guy's going to be like, you know, he'll be able to like joke and throw down. Like, he's, he's very on point. He's very, he's a really serious dude. He's one of the few people who when the camera is on, he is virtually identical to how he is when the camera's off.

Yeah. And look, you know, Gavin Newsom's similar in that like he'll goof around and have fun on Mike and off mic. But when the mics go off and Gavin Newsom, when the interview ends, he'll just want to sit and talk shit about politics or what's happening in the world or gossip a bit. Awesome, it was none of that. I was up, he was out. He's buttoned up.

He's buttoned up. Look, I interviewed him just a couple of weeks ago. And there was a big talking point that Trump was going to make this speech where he denied the legitimacy of John Ossoff's election win. And I asked him about that. And he answered in one question and then immediately pivoted back to his talking points. Like, he is so disciplined when it comes to messaging. And so by handing a megaphone to that guy who is laser focused on hitting Trump where, it hurts most, I think is a huge, a huge self-owned, own goal by this administration.

Yeah, it's very strange. They're just, like, they just swing at every single pitch. And sometimes a little discipline goes a long way in politics. But it's Donald Trump. It's Donald Trump. Not his thing. I think, too, that something that really shows the uns seriousness of this whole movement and puts on full display the extent to which these people are just engaging in faux outrage,

is that this Republican Party, and especially Donald Trump, are not capable of being able to present themselves as these defenders of women. When you've got Trump who five minutes ago just called the reporter Piggy, I mean, hell, Trump denigrated a female reporter asking about this very instance. He lost his mind on the CNN reporter in the Oval Office. Yeah, there's a lot of the like cynical creeps out there, like Scott Jennings, are suggesting that it's sexist to question whether the president of the United States is having a, inappropriate relationship with one of his own staffers. The reality is, no, the problem is Donald Trump. It's not his staff, it's him. In fact, the most cynical, perhaps, is this guy right here.

All right, so he brings in Natalie Harp, who is Trump's assistant, and he implies that there's something untoward here. You don't get lower than that. This is the lowest you go. This woman is working for her country, but it's a woman. Do you like a Trump administration or not? She has no history of doing anything untoward, none. President Trump actually helped her with health matter cancer.

And this Assov brings her in as someone who should be denigrated and laughed at and implies there's something going on here, which would be impossible with the Secret Service cadre. is now, surrounding a president at all times? It's impossible. It's not like JFK, where the Secret Service guys, he said, take a hike, they took a hike. That doesn't happen anymore. So I hear this, and I go, oh, every American should condemn Assad.

No. No. I mean, they were laughing the far left. There's a guy named Medi Hassan on MS. guess. He's laughing. Laughing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I call it gutter sniping. All right. There's smear merchants. This Ossoff, I would not vote for, I'd vote for Putin over

Assov. That's how bad this guy, Assov is. Believe me, if I were President Trump, I'd be combing everything that Oslo has ever done. ever done for doing this. But you don't get any of that from the press. You got ho, ho, ho, ha, ha, ha. But you didn't get condemnation. What do you think, Tommy?

First of all, I did not realize Bill O'Reilly was still alive in cooking like that. Cooking is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. Wow, that shocked me. I did not know he was still doing commentary. If I'm not mistaken, he paid out $32 million. Yeah, what I would say to our audience is Google Bill O'Reilly and falafel. And the reason that might not make sense of thumb because it doesn't. Bill O'Reilly used to call a female producer of his and detail his own sexual fantasies.

And one time one was about a shower and he thought a falafel was a lufa. Ah. So that's your messenger on this one. Yeah. Bill O'Reilly, in case you were wondering whether self-awareness exists in today's Republican Party, it is Bill O'Reilly denigrating John Ossoff for saying that Donald Trump wants to, quote, travel with Natalie. And you have Bill O'Reilly being the one to make that point. Wow.

With that said, in terms of messengers for this White House and the people who have taken it upon themselves to defend Donald Trump at all costs, We have Caroline Levitt who made news because she is leaving her post or has left her post as White House Press Secretary, which now means that the jockeying is on to see who's going to replace her. And a lot of eyes have been on one person in particular. Let's see who that is. We all know that Scott Jennings is more than happy to defend a war with a country that starts with the letters IRA that we are currently failing that is going to put us trillions and trillions of dollars more in debt. I was only a few years old while you were in the administration defending prior endless wars. Now, this war is failing. Eight weeks is endless to you?

Okay, you said it was going to be four to six weeks. Wait a minute. I debated you on TV four to six weeks ago and you said we were weeks away from it. Now you're making condescending remarks because you can't defend the fact that this war is not going your way. Wait, one more time. Not going. Not going to go in your way. Name one political concession.

Honestly, I'm not going to have this guy's going to run my face. Everybody hang tight. Honestly. So Tommy, does Scott Jennings have what, it takes to be the new face of this administration? Recently, he's been sporting a really terrible goatee. So I would, step one would be shaved that. Look, apparently the White House is seriously considering him.

I think CNN reported that White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles met with Jennings recently that she thinks he's an adult. She thinks he could be professionalized their relationship with the press. I find that to be insane personally. I don't hear anyone on or off mic who has a lot of nice things. things to say about Scott Jennings as a person. He's not seen as an honest broker. Remember, just recently, was it like three or four weeks ago, he told us that he did a 20-minute call with Mitch McConnell from his hospital room where they, like, talked about UN reform in Iran.

It's like, give me a break. This guy's not credible in any way, shape, reform. He gets triggered on air by like YouTubers, you know, Adam McClure. It's like 23-year-old, the 24-year-old guy, like just trying to debate him. He gets his ass handed to him by Adam. Like, I don't know. I wouldn't be my choice. Well, look, I think he does have the one thing that Donald Trump is looking for. Trump isn't looking for competence. He's not looking for an even-keeled demeanor. He's not looking for somebody who's going to be a fair broker of the news or of politics. He just wants somebody who's going to be a breathless sycophant for him, somebody who's going to show slavish devotion to Donald Trump. And that's what Scott Jennings does. I mean, there's not even any

topics on which Scott Jennings is going to moderate his views a little bit or play both sides. Like he will always be in Trump's corner no matter what happens. And so this is really, you know, it's on one hand, it's either a massive audition to be the next White House press secretary or Scott Jennings just is a complete, shameless sycophant who does it for the love of the game. But either way, he's doing what Trump wants him to do. You know what? I think kind of both are true there. Like I think he probably did this for the love of the game just because he's the shameless piece of shit, like you said, who wants attention. But it worked. It got attention.

100%. And it got like, heard in the White House. And they were like, oh, this guy will defend literally anything. Like Trump, you know, Steve Bannon and the people who are on the Trump campaign, they often talk about their favorite people being the ones who stuck with Donald Trump during the Access Hollywood scandal. And what that really, like, what that translates to is people who have no values whatsoever. No shame, no morals, no values, no principles. Yeah. And really that's what Trump 2.0 has been. I mean, Trump 2.0 is. is composed of people who will never do what happened to Trump, which means the Constitution, what happened to Trump and Trump 1.0, which is you have Mike Pence, who's refusing to fail

to certify the election results in deference to Trump. You have Rex Tillerson, you have Rance Prebis, you have, you know, all of these people who had, you know, a modicum of independent thought or adherence to the Constitution or to our laws, that doesn't exist in Trump 2.0. He's found these people who are not willing to allow any shame to get in their way of just their sycophancy for him. And yes, you're going to inherently get people like Sean Duffy and RFK Jr. and Pete Hegseth who are completely unqualified for the roles that they occupy, but that's not a bug that's a feature. He wants people who are incompetent and unqualified for their roles because that means that they're malleable to be rubber stamps for him. And so in Scott Jennings,

again, if he's just going to show blind devotion to Trump, then he fulfills the one qualification that Trump sees in the role of press secretary. Who would be the funniest person to make press secretary? J.D. Vance would hate it so much that it would be kind of like entertaining for us. Is it going to be like press secretary George Santos? George Santos is a great pitch. Hulk Hogan, is he so alive? I think sadly we have lost Hulk Hogan, so he's probably in the same physical state as Mitch McConnell. What about the macho man Randy Savage?

I can't. He apparently also has died. Okay, well, I think we've run out of right-wing coded wrestlers. I'll think of some more current wrestlers. JD Vans, every question would be like, just like condescend to you. Yeah. Or, I mean, I was just going to say, you know that at the end of the day, it's going to be his 12th job is going to be, it's going to be Marco Rubio. I'm surprised Trump doesn't just do it himself.

Like he does like 20 press briefings a day. He's always talking to the media. But that's the thing. That's where Scott Jennings actually has the ability to shine because there's no daylight between him and Donald Trump. Like you know that whatever position Trump espouses Scott Jennings is going to occupy that space with zero room for error. Like he will basically just channel the voice of Donald Trump. And so if he has the ability to have a mouthpiece who's going to perfectly and shamelessly espouse everything. Like once you're hired, like that is.

your job is just repeat whatever you're told you know what i mean so like but you're right like he he's kind of doing it for free he's doing it for free might as well although it would be uh it'll be interesting to see if he's willing to i think you would i mean look if he's willing to um to do all of this as just a part-time uh but in the seat of of news night with abby philip then then i think he'd be perfectly willing to get himself even more attention by doing it from behind the white house podium one of the stories noted that one reason people are skeptical about jennings taking the job is because he currently lives in Kentucky with his family. Doesn't it seem like the guy's in New York, like five nights a week?

Yes, yes. I think he'll be fine to sacrifice his family. He's good with work travel, is what you're saying? He's okay. The only question, the only question mark I would have is it seems like he spent all of this time vying for that Kentucky Senate seat. And that's a more longstanding and, you know, you would argue more powerful position than being just another Trump mouthpiece.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd be, you know, perfectly capable. of filling that role. But this seat doesn't come up often for Kentucky Senate. And, and, you know, Scott Jennings has the ability to, I don't know, maybe throw his hat in the ring at some point in the future. Man, you think he's going to bring a pillow to that next meeting with McConnell? A pillow. Yeah. Not exactly for behind his head. Sort this thing out. You think he's going to run? Oh, that would be so annoying. I think I just don't. It would just be like, you win the primary. You're the next senator. 100%. I just don't, I don't see a world where Scott Jennings is satisfied just being a part-time punching bag for Adam Mockler on CNN.

Yeah, that's true. Well said. So with that said, for those who are watching right now, if you're not yet subscribed to Potta of America's YouTube channel, I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description. If you're listening on the podcast, I'm going to put it in the show notes. If you're not subscribed to this channel, subscribe to both, help us build up independent media and get voices like Tommy's out into the zeitgeist. Me and Miss, what if I did a show with Scott Jennings, just the two of us? We would have to smash that subscribe button. We'd have no choice. It would be so beautiful.

Well, until then, all we have is Tommy. No Lie is brought to you by Quince. So August is the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. That's why I love shopping at Quince. Quince is all about fewer better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials, built to last, and designed to become the ones you reach for day after.

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That's Q-U-I-N-C.com slash BTC. I'm joined now by the Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate in Minnesota. Peggy Flanagan. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. So obviously we have this race coming up in just a couple of months. And your opponent, Michelle Tafoya, now is saddled with the baggage as our

so many other Republican candidates going into the general election. I want to talk about one instance in particular on the issue of being pro-choice. And look, this is Minnesota that we're talking about. This isn't Mississippi or Louisiana or Texas or Florida. In Minnesota, Tofoya is not pro-choice. She's, quote, completely aligned with Trump on abortion. So can you speak about the implications that just an issue like that is going to have in a state where, you know, it's not primary voters who are going to decide this election. It is the broader general electorate. I think Michelle Tofoya is just completely out of step with most Americans, but especially with Minnesotans. You know, she has said that she supported the Dobbs decision and the overturning of

Roe v. Wade, which, as you know, stripped millions of women from the ability to access abortion care. And we know that she said that she would absolutely vote for conservative justices who, would further restrict the rights of women in this country. So I think it's pretty clear that Michelle Defoya is aligned with Donald Trump, and we cannot afford to send her to Washington, D.C., to be an additional vote for potential Supreme Court justices. We know that the Supreme Court needs a complete overhaul, so sending folks to give Trump additional power and take more of our rights away should be unacceptable to folks. in terms of the state that you're representing and that you're the lieutenant governor of right now obviously the killings in Minnesota at the hands of ice were a major national flashpoint what needs to happen to these ice agents who have thus far encountered zero justice when it comes to what they've done

I mean it's outrageous right there's an entire agency that has been given hundreds of billions of dollars that have been allowed to kill at least 11 individuals with impunity, including two folks here, Renee Good and Alex Prattie. We are still waiting for justice. And the fact that anyone would continue to support ICE is outrageous to me. Even just last week, right, they were having conversations about, you know, millions of dollars going to these shock gloves, additional ways to, you know, to to hurt people. I think that we can have an immigration system that is grounded in secure borders in public safety and in making sure that there's a pathway to citizenship for folks that also is grounded in dignity. What we see right now is just, you know, this essentially private

police force that is moving through communities terrorizing folks. And this is a place where, you know, Michelle Tafoya has been aligned. with Trump. In fact, you know, she said, you know, ICE has treated children really, really well. Brian, you know that now infamous image of Liam Konejo-Ramos, the little guy in the bunny hat, I think he would beg to differ, along with the children who have been detained or separated from their parents. It's outrageous. And she, you know, her launch video included footage from operation metro search. I think, you know, what we heard loud and clear on election day in the primary election is that folks are not interested in giving more power to Donald Trump's ice.

And, you know, Michelle Tafoya is right on board with it. And it's, we absolutely deserve justice and we deserve better than her leadership. By the way, that that is a policy that even 25% of Trump 2024 voters do not approve of, the way that they're handling their ice and mass deportation policy. There's also a refusal by this administration to rule out the possibility of sending ICE to the polls in November. And in fact, just a few days ago, Harmeet Dillon, who's in charge of the Civil Rights Division at the DOJ, announced that they would be sending a thousand poll monitors out to the polls. Now, they don't have, or it's unlikely that they have a thousand bureaucrats who are willing to be sent out. If I were to guess, I would put my money on the fact

that they would be sending out these ICE agents because that's who they have at their disposal. That's who they've shown a willingness, a proclivity to send out across the country because, as you mentioned, this is kind of a standing army that Trump is able to wield and they're answerable only to him. And so what steps are being taken in Minnesota in light of the fact that you have an agency whose identity is based on the fear that they instill in communities that may very well be present at the polling places, you know, in important states of which Minnesota is one. So I'd say a couple things. One, I want people to look to Minnesota to see how we were able to organize during Operation Metro Surge. We are not powerless in the face of Donald Trump.

Much of that organizing was then transitioned into making sure that people voted in this primary election. We did the highest vote ever in the primary because I think people are paying attention and they want to push back against, you know, this lawless administration. We also have an incredible Secretary of State, Steve Simon. We have some of the most secure elections, election systems in the entire country. And we have incredible election judges who also understand Minnesota state law and will ensure that people can can cast their vote freely and safely. But there are also our folks now who are organizing on the ground, who are making sure that people know their rights and that folks are ready. I'd also encourage individuals, especially if they're

feeling a little nervous. We've got an early vote here in Minnesota where people can vote by a mail, they can vote in person early as well. We want to make voting as accessible as possible for folks. And we know that this is one of the only things they have, right, threatening to influence our elections, threatening to influence these, you know, poll workers. It's, It's frightening. And this should be an issue that isn't just about Democrats, you know, independence, Republicans, Americans in general should find it completely outrageous that that is the position of the Trump administration. We can get organized. We can push back. But we're going to have to make sure that we are talking about just how this is absolutely an affront to our democracy.

And you shouldn't be able to influence or steal elections. And this is, you know, what we can expect under Donald Trump, we should not be sending him additional folks to Congress or to the Senate who are going to enable just the complete undoing of our democracy. A bit of a lightning round here. So you can answer these as short as you want. You can expand if you want to, but yes or no works on these. Would you be in favor of a new voting rights act? Yes. I mean, I think, you know, we need to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. And we come from a state with incredibly high civic participation. A year after year, Minnesota turns out in the highest numbers at their polling place. That is a good thing. That's good for democracy.

And we should do everything we can. As we are watching, essentially entire communities, black voters in particular, having representation being stripped away. It's unacceptable. And this is our moment in this election to send folks who actually value civic participation and our democracy to Washington to push back on the absolute foolishness that we see coming out of this administration. Should Election Day be a national holiday? Yes. Should the national popular vote compact be enacted and take the place of the Electoral College for presidential elections? Yes. And should the Supreme Court be expanded?

Yes. And that's just the beginning of the list, right? We have to expand the court. We need to explore term limits. We have seen what this means in real time when there is an administration that goes completely unchecked by the two other branches of government. We deserve better. Now, on the issue of Supreme Court expansion, I look at that as foundational because if you have this 6-3 conservative court in place, it's not an if, but a when the Supreme Court will strike down any and all progressive legislation. Among that progressive legislation that I want to talk to you about, and I know that you're in support of is Medicare for all. So this is something I've advocated for for the better part of a decade. I know that you are in favor of Medicare for all as well. What is going to be your response when the inevitable pushback comes, which is we can't, possibly afford it? Right now, we can't afford this current system. People pay ridiculous amounts of

money for health insurance and get very little health care in return. And what I would also say is like just go talk to people. Right. Because when I, you know, I'm talking to a librarian who pays a $16,000 deductible, that's untenable for her and for her family combined with the cut. from the big ugly bill to Medicaid, we are in real trouble, especially in rural communities, with rural hospitals, access to care. I truly do not know what else we can do. Medicare for all is the answer because what we are doing right now is so entirely broken. And this is the number one issue that I hear about from folks. And what I would say, too, is like on the way, to passing Medicare for All, we need to get rid of prior authorization because some dude behind the desk,

or worse yet, an AI bot shouldn't be able to prevent you from getting the health care that your doctor has prescribed. People have had it. This is Medicare for All. Our moment is now. And I think if folks don't understand why it's worth fighting for, they are just not having conversations with actual people. Right. It's worth noting here that there is a reason that while so many American cultural phenomenons or political policies may be the envy of the world that nobody on the rest of the world is adopting our system. And not only are they not adopting it, which we can learn from, because they'll take the entertainment industry, for example. I live in Los Angeles. You know, we've exported that to Canada and the UK and Hungary and a ton of different countries are seeing what we're doing and saying we want that. But there's also the fact

that it doesn't work. We have other countries around the world that have more of a socialized medicine medical system and they have better health outcomes than the United States does. So it's not like we can even point to the fact that we are gouging our citizens, but at least it's worth it because at least they're living longer. At least there's lower rates of maternal mortality. At least there's lower rates of infant mortality. We can't even brag about any of those things because they're not even occurring. That's exactly right. And again, this is just like if you go out and talk to people, this is what's on their hearts and minds. And I talk to folks who are completely, you know, their health plan is to just pray that no one in their family get sick.

I mean, it is completely outrageous. And it is the thing I feel like economically is one of the most important things we can do to form a solid foundation for folks all across, all across the country. And, you know, I know, Brian, you've been fighting for this for over a decade. I think that the people are on our side. And we have to make sure that folks see that this is what we are fighting for. And then we've got to get to work in 2027 to get this across the finish line. And also encourage everyone who is running for president to really look at this because this is what the people want and what they're demanding. Last question here, because I think this is an under-discussed topic, but certainly, something that impacts every single person. And that is like the proliferation of AI, but also the

proliferation of AI and such little regulation surrounding it. I spoke with Senator Sanders a few weeks back, and he sounded the alarm because now we have AI that's effectively acting sentient in in deference to its own survival. And so can you speak about your stance on the regulation of AI in light of efforts by all of these AI companies to to, to, to, to, push back against efforts to regulate? I think it's incredibly important that we have regulation. I also think that we have to be really clear about the catastrophic potential consequences of AI. As you mentioned, right, we watched AI jump into a completely different system in order to get a right answer, right, like just a couple of weeks ago, again, for its own survival. And right now,

as it currently exists, the only time that these companies have to report that something has gone wrong is if it is quote unquote catastrophic. That may be too late. And this means, you know, for... And by the way, it's what they deem as catastrophic. And so we might think something is catastrophic. But if you put the onus on them to determine what they think is catastrophic, you know, that's where things get a little subjective. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So I absolutely think when it comes to the potential job loss, right, as we're talking about 20 to 30 percent of folks not having access to employment, that also means, right, that so security, Medicaid, all, you know, Medicare, all is impacted. But ultimately, I am concerned about the catastrophic

nature of AI and that we have to make sure that Congress is responding in a way, which is difficult, which is, you know, they need to be nimble and able to act quickly. This is moving much faster than the speed of government. And we have to catch up to it because I truly worry mostly about the safety and health of Americans if this gets out of control. Where can folks who are looking to help your campaign go? They can go to Peggyflanagan.com. And there's lots of room on Team Peggy. We'd love to have you be a part of it. Great. I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description. If you're listening on the podcast, I'm going to put it on the show notes. Minnesota is by no means a guaranteed win. So for folks who are looking to chip in

and help elevate Peggy Flanagan to the U.S. Senate, this is a great opportunity to do so. Peggy, thank you so much for the time and best luck in the campaign trail. Thanks so much, Brian. Thanks again to Tommy and Peggy. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Wednesday. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review.

And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to Brian Tyler Cohen.com to learn more.