No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen - Trump screws himself with golf announcement

Episode Date: September 13, 2026

Trump undermines his entire tariff regime with a new announcement. Brian interviews Fox host Jessica Tarlov and the executive director of People Not Politicians, Richard von Glahn.Buy "I Dissent" here: https://sites.prh.com/idisagreeSupport People Not Politicians: https://peoplenotpoliticiansmo.org/Written by Brian Tyler CohenProduced by Sam GraberRecorded in Los Angeles, CASee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Trump undermines his entire tariff regime, and I've got two interviews, Fox host Jessica Tarlov and the executive director of People Not Politicians coming off his big map win in Missouri, Richard von Glan. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to No Lie. Not the smartest move for Donald Trump to make this announcement at the Irish Open that he attended this weekend. Possibly take the tariffs off of Irish whiskey. On behalf of the United States of America, I am going to take the tariffs off. So that's Trump announcing the removal of the 15% tariff on Irish whiskey. And the full unfiltered explanation when asked why is that, quote,

everyone's been bugging me to do it. That's the entire policy rationale. Not a trade deficit calculation, not a national security review. Just some people at a golf tournament bugged him about it. So he waived a tariff on an entire country's signature export at a trophy ceremony. And this might seem inconsequential, but it completely undercuts the entire stated justification that Trump is built around these tariffs for the last year and a half, these grossly unpopular tariffs. Remember, we have been told the tariffs are about national security.

We've been told they're about fixing decades of unfair trade deficits, that they're strategic leverage to bring manufacturing back to the United States of America, to punish countries that take advantage of us to fix a rigged global trading system over and over. Over again, we hear all of these excuses. That's the pitch. And then the guy who's supposedly waging this careful, calculated economic war struts up to a podium at a golf tournament and says he's ending a tariff because attendees, quote, wouldn't stop bugging him about it. And by the way, this isn't even the first time that we've seen this exact pattern from Trump. Back in April, he gave the United Kingdom a tariff break on Scotch right after King Charles and Queen Camilla visited the White House.

and how did Trump describe that decision? He posted, quote, the king and queen got me to do something that nobody else was able to do without hardly even asking. Again, this wasn't after a careful review of our trade deficit. This wasn't in exchange for reciprocal concessions.

This was the king and queen visiting, asking Trump nicely, probably appealing to his ego, and Trump changing federal trade policy on the spot as a personal favor. That is what it looks like when you have a president who hands out favors to whoever happens to be standing in front. of him while he's jacked up on golf dopamine. And think about what that actually means for how

seriously we should take any of the stated justifications behind this entire tariff regime. If tariffs were actually calibrated economic policy, if they were actually built around trade deficits and reciprocity and national security, any of the things we've been told, then removing one wouldn't hinge on how much a crowd cheers when you announce it live at an award ceremony. Real trade policy doesn't work like that. Real trade policy isn't decided by whichever industry group happens to have lobbied Trump recently, or whichever foreign leader last bestowed upon him a gold trinket, or whichever golfer happened to be in his ear last weekend. But increasingly, that is exactly how Trump navigates this whole process. That is exactly

how all of this is being run. And I think this is worth remembering every single time this administration rolls out some new tariff, but dresses it up in the language of some grand 4D chess strategy, because we now have Trump's own words on camera at a trophy ceremony telling us the truth about what he's doing. These decisions come down to nothing more sophisticated than his golf buddies asking for a favor and him announcing the carve-out to applause. And meanwhile, in the United States, we've got some auto workers somewhere who lost their job to a tariff-driven supply chain disruption, or some family paying hundreds or thousands of extra dollars per year in tariff-inflated grocery prices, who might like to know that on the other side of the

of the world right now, you've got an Irish golf tournament crowd who got their tariff lifted because they clapped loud enough and asked the right guy at the right trophy ceremony to lobby the president. Something to think about when you're deciding who cares about you and who is looking out for themselves. Next up are my interviews with Fox's Jessica Tarlov and the executive director of people not politicians straight off of their win in Missouri on that map dispute, Richard von Glan. No Lie is brought to you by Quince. We've all got those pieces in our closets that we find ourselves wearing on repeat.

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Quince brings out that same approach to everything they make, from hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture. They make well-designed pieces for everyday living. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash BTC. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com. I am joined now by the Bravest Woman on Television, co-host of the Five, an author of the new book, I disagree, winning arguments without losing friends, Jessica Tarlov. Thank you so much for joining me. I want to get to the book, but I have to ask one question first and foremost, now that we're in the midst of this Republican midterm convention, we know that Donald Trump cares about nothing as much as he cares about crowd size and attendance numbers. We've seen video footage of what the side of that arena looked like it was sparsely populated, to put it generously. Can I have your reaction to the fact that this is a Republican president, just a few weeks before an election, when folks

are obviously paying attention to politics in Texas. So I don't know that you can get friendlier territory than that. And yet he still couldn't fill up this arena. First of all, thank you for having me. It's so fun to be here and to be back with you. I said it's like almost a year since I was on when we did it live at CrocaCon. So we'll have to do a live one again. But I really appreciate being here and, you know, all that you do. Thanks. Yeah, it's not a great sign that there were any open seats, but it does hone in on the problem that they had and why I think they decided to do it there, which is they have a Ken

Paxton problem. And I know that there were a lot of speeches that more fun to pay attention to, like Tim Scott, for instance, who I did not know that that's what Tim Scott more. into, depending on what he's been injected with. But Ken Paxton is terrible. Like, he's a terrible human. But he's also worse on the stump than I thought. And I know Trump had been previewing this for us, you know, how he loves now to tell us how

poorly dressed he is and that he is, you know, bad on TV. And all these things that you know are actually the only things that matter to Donald Trump. And then he throws in, but he's like the best AG in the country. And then you think actually he was impeached by his own parties, like probably not the best AG in the country. But that Ken Paxson couldn't even be in prime time. They knew enough programming-wise that that was the case and that he was that stale, that stiff. And then the contrast between not only the enormous grocery drive that James Talarico was doing at the same moment. So you saw the Fabrizio poll, which you know is a big deal because Tony Ferbrizio works for Donald Trump.

And, yeah, I mean, he's an excellent pollster. I'm not saying he's going to be faking anything, but he has Talleyico up for. So and he has the governor's race in a margin of error. Yeah. So we're on the march here. And I think the contrast, James and the grocery drive, the Fabrizio poll, and then all of the interviews that Tallerica. was giving, including to Fox, where he addressed a lot of these past comments that he's made that

were being held over him, like the Wokistan kind of stuff, you know, six sexes, trans women and women's sports, before he had already gone and dealt with, and they were unfairly spicing his interview, but about immigration, right, where he says that our immigration policy has to be like your front porch. there's a welcome mat, but your door is locked, right? Which I think everybody understands that that's a reasonable way to think about immigration. So there was a thing there vis-a-vis Texas, and none of it was good for Republicans. When James Tellerico does an interview with Fox on this exact topic,

do you think that helps his cause because he's able to offer up some nuance to an audience that has otherwise only heard attacks against him? or do you think that it just further amplifies the bad faith attacks against him by giving him a little airtime, you don't know how it's going to be edited, and of course it gives other folks in the right-wing media ecosystem an opportunity to bubble back up to the surface the original attacks that he was answering for anyway? So I happen to live in a world or a mindset where I kind of think you can't control

what other people do, and the more that you can't control, can be on the record with your actual beliefs and how you see the world and taking responsibility. Like, we're a forgiving people. We want to see people evolve and change and update if that's what's necessary. And I think it's good that he did that. He's also running in Texas. You just can't get away with certain things that maybe you could say like, whatever, it doesn't really matter what I said in 2020. Like, you're trying to win Texas, which has been a white whale for us for a long time. So, yeah, are there going to be new ads cut?

Like, James Chaloriko lies to you. This is him. And then when it's expedient, this is him now. Right. Sure. But our ecosystem, the left-leaning algorithms are also really powerful, you know, and shows like yours and all of the other creators out there who, as far as I can tell, nobody is disappointed that James Talleyko did this.

And they did think that it was important that he had this conversation with a Fox News reporter. And that it's going to then play on all of our programming too. We have this massive audience. And there are people like the five, the show that I co-hosts, were 20% Democrats, 30% independence, and then 50% Republican. And that's everything from MAGA to Romney Republicans. They're going to see that too. And it does seep in.

It becomes part of your consciousness. And even if people don't get to the point where they agree with everything that you have to say, they're still getting these bursts of information that run counter to the narrative that they hear all the time. Well, that's a good segue into your book. Again, the book is called I Disagree. And I think what I'd like to know is a lot of people right now, and I'm sure this is a question that you've contended with, a million times, but this isn't politics as usual. And the party in power right now, this MAGA Republican Party is not just like, okay, we disagree on taxation and otherwise. You know,

like they are ripping families apart. They are enriching themselves to an egregious degree. They're engaged in steeped in so much corruption. They're ripping families apart. So all of this is happening, for the people who voted for or continue to support this Republican Party, that's a value statement on those people. And so you have Democrats on this side of the aisle who say, you know, I don't want somebody in my life who is going to vote to empower a political party that doesn't care if my brown neighbors are killed or not. Doesn't care if Americans are killed or not in defense of those brown communities. members, these, you know, like, how, what do you say to those people who say, like,

it's not, it's not worth it for me to keep in my life a group of people who would empower a Republican Party that has so little, that has so little, that shows so little care for the vast majority of Americans. Yeah, I, so I knew this coming in, that my subtitle, winning arguments without losing friends, that I would hear from people. I would like to lose those friends. Actually, I feel better now that those people aren't in my life. It's a little bit different with family members. And we know that we have record numbers of families that have fissures as a result of the rise of Donald Trump.

And the way, frankly, that politics is conducted in our country generally now. You know, I definitely think he's an enormous factor in this. But I totally get that point of view. And I make the case in the book. I make the case on air all the time, both on Fox and my podcast with Scott, Raging Moderates, that I think politics is about morality. I think a budget is a moral document. You are telling the world what matters to you.

And if private jet deductions matters to you more than funding for SNAP or Head Start or people being able to keep their Medicaid, that's a moral bankruptcy problem. Yeah. But by extension, we're sharing this place, whether you like it or not. And my job is a little bit different than most people's jobs. You know, I'm not coming here. I have fun a lot of the time, but I'm not here just for fun. It's work for me.

And it is a type of advocacy that I believe in and that I think can have long-term impact because I'm in a long-term relationship. with my co-hosts and also with the people who watch the five and who consume clips of it because they're oftentimes different demos, right? The people who make sure that they're there to turn it on or DVR it versus those who get me, you know, see what I'm saying or likewise see Jesse Waters or Greg Gutfeld, Dana, you know, however, through their ecosystem. So what I would say to those people is I hear you and I agree with you in a lot of ways.

it doesn't change the fact that I still think there is important work to do in combating bad information, in repairing in some cases, and building relationships with people who see the world differently because there are things that they can show you or explain to you that can help you in the way that you're processing information and what your political beliefs are, changing your mind, not necessarily, but I don't even think of my job that way. And I write this and I disagree. I think my job, and I'm curious if you feel similarly, is to actually open people's minds to the idea that there is an alternative point of view worth considering,

that there are good actors who see things differently. And there's information that they're using that they have access to and that you probably have access to as well to build their arguments that makes you think, okay. And a lot of what I go into in the book is about how you prepare these arguments, right? How you actually build the facts and the data set to be able to go out there and do that. And I have my background is in academia and research. I worked as a pollster.

So telling a story based in numbers is something that's, very core to who I am and what I do and seeing the world in averages versus in anecdotes. But you can't build an argument that I think resonates with people unless you are willing to olive branch to them a little bit, even if it's just the way that you approach it. if it feels too foreign or impossible to you to say, I agree with, you know, this thing that you said, I get that. Often that feels like a capitulation. And I don't particularly like doing that.

It's most of the time it would be inauthentic, right? Whereas I actually, I think you're totally wrongheaded about this thing. But that doesn't mean that you can't indicate this shared space, this shared humanity and some generosity with people. Because it goes really far. 100%. And I think, look, it is anybody who doesn't have to share their space, their lives, their family with Republicans, I think is a position of, you know, to a degree to privilege. You know, there's something to be said for a lack of diversity and whatnot. But it is a position of privilege because a lot of us, I think, don't have that privilege of being able to just inoculate ourselves from any views that we don't like. And so I think that what you're saying here, you know, is, is, albeit not ideal, is pragmatic. And that's the world that I think most of us live in, you and myself included.

Well, your book was all about pragmatism. Yeah. Yeah. Right? It was like, we've essentially been coasting through this almost in fantasy land. Yeah. Right? Where you can just say, you know, oppose him, oppose him, oppose him.

Like, get him out, get him out. And then the reality is you're going to wake up the day after the election or inauguration, really, when you actually get the keys to the castle. And what are you going to do about it? Right. Because they lived in reality. And then they actually, because they had a plan, they were able to shape the future of their reality. Well, I feel like what if you can be successful in your efforts at persuasion on the five,

which is certainly a more hostile environment that I think any. normal American is going to find themselves in, then I think that, that you, basically, if you can succeed there, you can succeed anywhere. And so what has been the most effective persuasion technique that you've been able to deploy that can kind of inform how regular people, when they're not contending with, you know, formerly Judge Janine, but Jesse Waters and Dana and, you know, Greg Gutfeld and these people who do this for a living, but regular, you know, parents or family members or friends that can inform some of how regular people can basically persuade the people in their circles to come around to different positions?

Well, I have a couple of answers to that, and one of them people are probably not going to like as much, but it was important to me to put in the book because it's true, and I want to be truthful, especially when you have this opportunity to write a book and to spend a few hundred pages telling people what you think without interruptions. And that is that tangling with some of our own failings and accepting some of our own mistakes, which there are people, and I think more on the progressive left than maybe more of the center of the party, are in an admit-nothing mode all the time, right? That you're even not what you asked me about the Talarico interview, right? So what do you think about the fact it's going to get chopped up and then it's going to be thrown back in your face? If it's not James Talleyico, it's going to be another Hassan Piker clip.

It's going to be another clip of Megan Romer or Dary Liza Chevalier. The churn is going to carry on. Right. And all we can really control is how clean we keep our side of the street. And so I actually spent and have over the years a lot of time looking into the things that, the right would call left-wing hoaxes. And they're kind of baseline, like we're not operating on the same planet stuff.

So there's the ones that rise to election integrity, where I just have no time for that, right? Like you've been through 66, what is it, 66 court cases. 65 court cases, yeah. Yes, Mark Elias, we love you. And I don't have time for that. I don't have time for NAM. Nancy Pelosi was the one who like sent the National Guard home or like whatever convoluted

stuff is going on there. But I can engage with what the Mueller report said and didn't say and how it's been manipulated. I can engage with all of the media hits that went on in the run up to the Mueller report or around releasing Donald Trump's tax returns and, you know, the lies surrounding the meeting at Trump Tower that was about an or something. or something like that and get to a place where I can at least say Donald Trump and his relationship with Russia was overhyped. I get it. Bob Mueller, I know what the report said.

I know that there were connections. I know that there were people who went to jail. I also know the breathlessness with which the left talked about this and the overwhelming feeling to people that it was like we're going to get him. And that is a baseline thing in talking to the right that lives in the front of their minds, not just like in the recesses, but in the front of it. Charlottesville, right? And what Donald Trump did or didn't say about the very fine people, which is the predicate of Joe Biden's campaign, I mean, Joe Biden loved to run for president.

He was going to do it anyway. But, you know, actually listening to the tape and understanding how muddled Donald Trump's language is. But engaging with the way that they see the world so that you can then show them that you've done the work for that. Right. And then you can bring in the reality. So when they come and say the SPLC basically invented the idea that there are neo-Nazis in this country, like that the Tiki torch guys actually were just, you know, college students wearing Docker. on their way to the bar or down the street or whatever it is makes your arguments stronger because they know that you're trying to be a good faith actor in this.

And I think that that is one of the biggest underlying problems in our politics is that we don't trust that the people that we're talking to or disagreeing with are going to be good faith about it. And I know, and maybe I'll see it in the comments that people will say, like, they don't deserve that. Right, like I don't want to give an inch on any of this. But I don't think that you would look at the way that I present my arguments and the way that I work with my co-hosts and communicate with the audience

and think that I gave them anything. I just met them at a place where I think we can both exist. And then you don't miss each other in the same way. Does that make sense? A hundred percent. But my pushback to that is, is we are watching the way that this Magu Republican Party operates. And on down from Donald Trump,

there seems to be this mentality of admit no fault ever. Like that is the ethos of Trump's movement. And so I guess the disconnect is when you say, and I agree with this, that you have to be willing to operate in good faith so that you can be in a position where somebody is even open to hear, open to hearing what you have to say to your persuasion, isn't, doesn't that butt up against the fact that the other side right now isn't willing to do exactly that? Like, I, there are going to be people who say, let's, you know, that it's, that's, um, um, um, um, reminiscent of Michelle

Obama's when, when, when they go low, we go high. Do you, and so what would your reaction to that be? Well, I think that we've updated from that, generally speaking. Everybody understands, that this is war. It is nonviolent war, but this is war. Yeah. And my counter to that would be, if you actually want to be on the battlefield, you need to be able to get in the arena.

Yeah. And you're not going to have entrance into the arena unless you are willing to behave a certain way. Right. I mean, this is how. To engage in some modicum of good faith so that they're even willing to hear you. Right.

And people. sense it. You know, like, they're seeing these conversations. And even if they don't agree with your politics, and I hear this from Fox viewers out in the wild all the time,

it's one of the main reasons that I wrote this book is that I have a flood of people of all political persuasions saying to me, how do you do it? Right? How do you do this? How do you show up day after day

and know that you're going to get interrupted and push around and you're still going to sit there and you're going to make sure that you make your points and also find a way to have connective tissue with these people who see the world so differently. And we don't lose, you know this. This is why you built chorus. We don't lose the 2024 election if we engage. We chose not to.

I mean, we also had some other problem. We had some policy problems and some outcome problems. but we certainly had a presence problem. And that's what I'm talking about. I mean, it is the content of what you should say. And my alternate title was surviving Thanksgiving. And my appendix is 10 tips for your table. So if you want the quick and dirty, like, how do you talk about ICE?

I got you. Abortion, you know, constitutional crisis, all the things. But there's, it's really a guy. for how to not only build the content of what you want to say, but how to make that safe for people to hear. Because hearing information that runs against your long-held beliefs literally throws up your threat reflex. People feel pain from this. And that's something that I think I'm comfortable, you know, going high when they go low about, to understand that somebody who's grown up in a Republican tradition or somebody who even is a new MAGA voter, they are operating

with a different set of facts. And so any way that I can find a place to weave in and to set up camp in the recesses of their brain where they say, oh, there's that, you know, that Democratic lady with all the facts who's also nice and is part of this cohort, I'm going to take it. Last question here. And this kind of, you know, look, I think it's not lost on anybody how smart and how strategic and charming. You are and have to be to do the work that you do. And for that, I think everybody watching is obviously very grateful. But just on a personal level for you, like, question is going to sound reductive, but like, how are you? Because you operate in an ecosystem that is so hostile. I mean, even in the rare instances, you know, one or two

times a week where I go on CNN and debate somebody or I go on News Nation and debate Katie Pavlidge. You know, it is, I have to use a different part of my brain and it impacts my body in a certain way. Like you said, I mean, you're putting up a defense mechanism that you're not doing when you're talking to a much friendlier audience. And my audience is friendly to me. But you're talking to not only an audience that is largely hostile to your worldview. but you're literally, physically, surrounded by people who are hostile to your worldview.

Like, I couldn't imagine what it would feel like physically to walk through the halls of Fox. And so just how do you do that part of it? And how are you doing just generally health-wise, you know, having put yourself in the lines then in the way that you have? I mean, like all good elder millennials with two little kids, like I'm a broken woman. Right. Nothing some Lexibro can't fix. I mean, for real, right? I started taking it.

I mean, it's a natural sleep aid that you can take when you're pregnant, Unisom. Like, yeah, I need that. And I'm still up from like three to five rerunning stuff in my mind. I mean, you do this even if you're having a friendly conversation. Because the quality of it matters. You know, sometimes you feel like, oh, no, I'm just sitting here behind. a computer like telling everyone what I think or whatever. This is all getting pumped out into the

world and has potential to impact real decisions and sway people and all of it. And follow you for the rest of your life. Right. And be part of this. These are communities. And it's very cool and a privilege to be part of them. So I think about all of that. I am broken. I also, this is work for me. I've been and I've been. And I've been. here a long time. I mean, I don't think for people, and it would be much less your audience than maybe, you know, someone who just would use clips of me, you know, take down clips or whatever it is. But, you know, I've been at Fox 10 years. I know everyone's husbands and wives. I know kids. It is a normal work environment in a lot of ways. And it's a really great place to work. And,

I have stories and a lot of this is in the book. You know, I got promoted to this massive job pregnant, like heavily pregnant. Like, my back hurts. I can't sit here any longer pregnant, but a good thing is happening for me professionally. You know, there, it's just not what a lot of people think that it is. And that doesn't mean that the opinions, because I get that too, like how much your colleagues actually believe these things. Like a lot of it. And that sucks too, right? That means that I have to work harder to open up the mind to the idea that the alternative actually isn't, you know,

that you'll never be able to eat meat again and you have to have your kids going to be transed or whatever, they might say. But it's funny. And I think I mentioned this to you when we saw each other at CrookedCon last year, I'm much newer to liberal environments than I am to conservative ones. Like, I've been to more RNCs than DNCs and have, you know, more connections to a Republican media environment than to a Democratic media environment. And so while I am broken, I'm also really okay. And I'm good a lot of days. And I think, And that's why I put so much of, you know, how I do what I do in this book for people. Because I think we can all get better at it.

And then by extension, we can win more. I mean, the book is about winning. Your book's about winning. Like, I am a prize now, right? Like, we've got the midterms coming up. I'm feeling good about it. Not great, great, great, great. But, like, I want too big to rig in all of the things.

And I think that this is really a critical component in all of that. And to not just do the debates, right? I know it's so popular that TikTok had to create a vertical for it because everyone likes to see this. They want to see the back and forth and the exchange of ideas, but they want to see the takedowns. Like what I'm engaged in is, like I said, it's a long-term relationship, right? And there are days where there are haymakers thrown. But there are days where there are. just talking about kind of loose light topics and being able to shoot the shit. And you should be able to do that with people who have garbage politics. Yeah. I know you might not like to, but you should be able to. Well, look, I think it is beyond clear. You know, first of all, the sacrifice that it takes to be able to do that. And I'm sure 99.9% of people who are watching and listening right now are perfectly content

that they don't have to put themselves in that kind of. environment every day, but that just underscores the importance of the work that you do. So I would highly recommend for everybody who's watching and listening right now. If you want to support the work that Jess does on a daily basis, grab a copy of I disagree, winning arguments without losing friends. I'm going to put that link in right here on the screen in the post description of this video and also in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast. Grab a copy, support her work.

She is working day in and day out to persuade voters. And it makes a difference. I know that a lot of people would applaud when Gavin Newsom or Pete Buttigieg went on Fox News or right-wing media and talk about how important it is to finally expose that audience to some truth. Nobody does it more than Jessica Tarlob. So again, to show some support for the work that she's doing every single day, grab a copy of that book. I disagree. And Jess, thank you so much for taking the time. Yeah, no, it was great to be with you.

Thanks. We just got a bombshell ruling out of Missouri where it is now, final that Missouri will be using the six to two congressional map as opposed to the new seven to one congressional map that Republicans were hoping to shoehorn through. I'm joined now by Richard von Glan, the executive director of people not politicians. That is the organization that collected 300,000 signatures to put this issue of redrawing the maps on the ballot as opposed to allowing the legislature to just redraw a more Republican favorable map. So given the news today that we just Scott, Richard, I want to get your reaction first and foremost to the fact that the Secretary

of State Denny Hoskins was held in contempt because he was so unwilling to abide by not only the Missouri Supreme Court's order, but even the U.S. Supreme Court order and just decided that they would continue to barrel ahead and try and use this more favorable seven-to-one map. Yeah, I mean, Denny Hoskins for months has just been engaged in legal obstruction and delay. he was a participant in a collusive lawsuit to try to illegally force Missourians to vote on an illegal map. And I'm thrilled to see that that issue was put to rest. And the Supreme Court left no doubt that they're tired of his shenanigans. What does this mean moving forward? Obviously, this is a great result for this upcoming 2026 midterm cycle. But I presume, and I presume that this is

the same for you, that the fight isn't over as far as these Republicans are concerned. Yeah, we certainly still have a fight on our hands for November. The referendum is live there. We need to mobilize our communities to vote no on Proposition A and just kill this thing finally once and forever and kill it dead. What does it say that you were able to gain 300,000 signatures on a petition that really only needed 100,000? What does it say? about the appetite that folks have not to contract all of their autonomy, all of their power over to these power-hungry Republicans in the legislature and the state government? Yeah, this is actually September 10th is the one-year anniversary of the largest rally held in

Missouri history at our state capital. Over 5,000 people came in to tell our legislature no to this DC-drawn election rigging. You know, they did it anyway. Within the first 24 hours of our politicians passing this gerrymander. We had over 2,000 volunteers all across the state saying, give me a petition, give me a clipboard, I'm ready to go, I'm ready to fight for my community. And fight they did, and I'm glad at this step that we've won, and we're going to go finish the job. You know, this is not exactly a liberal bastion. And so can you speak about your reaction to the fact that this, I mean, this took place in Missouri. I think the last time a Democrat was even in power statewide in Missouri.

If I'm not mistaken, was the governor back in like the early 2010s? Is that correct? You know, Missourians have consistently voted on ballot initiatives that support our neighbors. We have expanded Medicaid. We have raised the minimum wage three times. We have overturned a complete ban on abortion. We've actually banned gerrymandering before. Now, the legislature has overturned some of those things.

And so we're on a constant back and forth. I don't look at Missouri in the red versus blue dynamic. I look at it from the dynamic of politicians in Jeff City, who are just power hungry and completely out of touch with the realities of our communities. And people joining together and fighting back against that. You know, you mentioning Jeff City, again, brings to mind what the Missouri Supreme Court said today, which was warning Denny Hoskins not to even leave Jeff City. And it was ironic that within minutes of them signaling that they were going to

hold Hoskins in contempt and not to leave Jefferson City so that he could be arrested, he issued a statement saying, you know, lo and behold, I'm going to abide by the Missouri Supreme Court's order. Then you have the Republican Attorney General of Missouri saying, I'm so glad that I get to follow in the footsteps of Denny Hoskins and we're going, we're going to support his effort to uphold the law and abide by the Missouri Supreme Court's ruling. You know, it's, I just found it, find it so striking that only when some of these folks are faced with the prospect of personal accountability, do they suddenly remember their allegiance and their adherence to law and the Constitution and their own oath of office?

Yeah, that is certainly true. our unelected attorney general and secretary of state have done everything that they can to thwart the will of Missouri voters and the laws of this state. I don't know why we have an attorney general who is not defending the Constitution of Missouri and the laws of Missouri and is instead doing the bidding of special interest in D.C. She never got elected to that office. So maybe that explains who she's really accountable to, not to the voters. But that's what we have had. But we had a volunteer who made a sign that said,

Denny can't veto democracy. And that is true. And the law is the law, and the law has won out, and the people are going to win out this November. Was this a surprising result for you, given the political, the partisan makeup of the Missouri Supreme Court? If I'm not mistaken, six of the seven state Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republican officials.

Is that correct? I think it's five out of seven. Five or seven. But Missouri's got a model nonpartisan court plan. We've actually tried to keep politics out of our judiciary. And that's an important thing to do across the country. You want to have judges who can simply look at things as the law. Sure, they have their perspectives, but at the end of the day, the law is the law.

And it's very telling that these were unanimous decisions, a unanimous decision out of the Supreme Court of Missouri. today out of the U.S. Supreme Court, you know, it's on the shadow docket, so we don't know exactly how all the votes came, but there were no dissents in the position today. So I think it's pretty telling how out of bounds our Secretary of State and Attorney General have been. And the law is the law, and that's what won out here. Have you heard from any voters in Missouri? I mean, obviously the folks who were collecting signatures all across the country had a ton of face time with the 3,000 people who signed these petitions. But is there anything that stood out to you in terms of what these otherwise pretty firmly Republican voters, a Republican electorate, said

as this process was moving forward? Yeah. I mean, I think we had people circulating our petition in a, you know, Donald Trump mega t-shirt because he understands that actually, you know, Trump's promises of drained the swamp and do different things, that actually this was the exact opposite of that. These were political insiders trying to enrich themselves, trying to unaculate themselves from any voter accountability. And that's not what the people of the state want. We are facing an affordability crisis. Our farmers are struggling with ridiculous tariff and trade policies and people want accountability for the failures in D.C. And, you know, the best way that we can do that is by protecting ourselves from this election rigging and voting no on Prop A in November.

You know, just a little bit of a political question here, but you had mentioned that Missouri has a long history or a proud history of voting against or voting in favor of these ballot measures that would protect themselves. Oftentimes, these ballot measures are positions espoused, by Democratic politicians. So the Democratic politicians will lose out on the ballot, but their positions will win out. And Republican officials

who oppose those positions will get elected to office and then the people of Missouri are in a position where they have to constantly make their voices heard via these referendums against the very people

who they elected. Is there beginning to be some understanding that the folks in the Republican Party these Republican politicians are actually espousing positions that are antithetical to what the voters of Missouri want and that it would be easier to elect Democratic politicians who actually espouse those positions so that we don't constantly need to defer to these refer to these referendums or ballot measures

to, to, you know, fight back against their very elected officials. I think you are beginning to see that. Just last month, there were two issues, a massive tax cut for the wealthiest that would have raised taxes for most working families in Missouri, and a politician attack on our direct democracy process, our ballot initiative process. You saw those pushed by the governor, by the Secretary of State, by the Attorney General, and both of those issues were defeated by over 80% of Missouri voters. They each failed in every single county in the state. I mean, they were historic, massive losses. I saw a poll out this morning that showed for the first time, Governor Mike Kehoe is underwater. President Trump is underwater in Missouri.

Voters are sick and tired of the shenanigans, of the power grabs, of the games. We need to have results delivered to us. And if our elected officials are going to be unable to do that, then they need to face the consequences of that in free and fair elections. last time I want to offer a big congratulations and a thank you for the work that people not politicians did in getting this thing over the finish line. But as you mentioned, the work isn't done. So one more call to action for folks who are watching right now in terms of what voters in Missouri can do to protect democracy come November. Yeah, certainly anyone can visit our website, people not politicians, m.org. You can follow us on all the social media channels.

You can make a contribution to us and help support our work. And if you're in Missouri, be prepared to vote. No on Proposition A. Join us in one of our upcoming canvases and help spread the word. Awesome. Well, thank you again for the work that you've done. Congratulations on this outcome and looking forward to watching you all land the plane

come November. Richard, I appreciate your time. All right. Thanks so much. Thanks again to Jessica Tarlov and Richard von Glan. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Wednesday. You've been listening to No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen. Produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesie, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera.

If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five-star rating in a review. And as always, you can find me at Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels, or you can go to bryantarcoen.com to learn more.