No Such Thing As A Fish - 170: No Such Thing As A Love Potion For A Vole
Episode Date: June 23, 2017Anna, James, Andy and Alex discuss stinking ice, smart seeds and the world's greatest fly swatters....
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Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming
to you from the QI offices in Covent Garden.
My name is Lightning and I'm sitting here with James Harkin, Anna Tijinski and Alex
Bell.
And once again, we've gathered around the microphones and we've got you our four favourite
facts from the last seven days.
So in no particular order, here we go.
Starting this week with my fact, and that is that early ice skating rinks stank of pig
fat.
Rank.
It's a rank rink.
Rank rink.
Ice rank.
So this is the fact that the very first artificial skating rinks used as kind of ice substitute
because they didn't have the technology to make proper fake ice.
So instead they used a substitute which consisted of various salts and hog lard and people would
just skate around on it and they also had mounds of hog lard just at the side to look
like fake snow.
Yeah.
And it didn't last very long.
It lasted six or seven months.
When did you say that was?
That was in 1844.
Okay.
So that was, and the first one of those was made in 1841, I think, wasn't it?
Yes.
Sorry.
So this was the first one that was sort of properly open to the public.
Yeah.
So what was made in 1841 was only six foot by twelve foot, so I don't think you're not
going to play much hockey on that, are you?
That was like his investment lure at one.
So he made that first one and it was basically like the thing you'd take on Dragon's Den
to say, if you give me £10,000 for 10% of the company.
Well I'm afraid it smells like pig fat, so I'm out.
It's weird when you see pictures of the olden days.
So for instance, there's this beautiful picture of one of these early ice rinks from the 1840s
and everyone always looks very, kind of, they're all dressed very beautifully and always looks
lovely like Jane Austen era and you can never see the picture of the smell, which was so
pervasive everywhere.
Everything smelled of horse manure or pig fat.
Did you expect that they'd be skating around with like clothes pegs on their noses and
stuff?
Yes.
Green smoke lingering above them.
Yeah.
You can't see the trotters poking up through the ice.
Do you remember last year when in Japan, I think we might have mentioned this on our
new show, in Japan, they filled the ice rink with dead fish, didn't they?
They got like hundreds of dead fish.
So I looked this up again, but I didn't realise at the time when you do this on the show that
it's, the Japanese theme park is called Space World and it's like a space themed theme
park.
There's no reason to put fish inside your ice rink.
They froze them far so that you get a kind of whole shoal of fish mid swim, so it did
look quite cool.
But then they also spelled out the word, hello, dead fish.
When you take a step back from that, that's like, what are you doing?
Like, who thought that was a good idea?
Like, how far down the meeting did you lose sight that that was mad when you're like,
let's spell out the word hello of all words in the ice?
At the very least, you could put hello in Japanese.
Oh, was it in English?
Yeah.
I think it was in English, wasn't it?
It was, yeah.
But they got a massive trouble over that and then they said, don't worry, the fish were
already dead before we put them in the ice, as though that sort of makes it better.
Well, it kind of makes it better because then it's just like, if they were just buying
it up as if to eat.
Yeah.
But people complained at the time that the fish looks like they'd been frozen in time.
There are people saying, it looks like you've just put them in there alive and they've frozen
to death because their mouths are open and their eyes are big and wide.
But if you've ever been to a fish monger, that is just what dead fish is like.
I see what you mean.
I don't think it's better.
I do think it's less bad.
Well, that's what better means.
I think it's still bad.
Do you think it was, because it was spelled out in English, maybe they thought this is
a kind of weird stuff that the Brits are into, isn't it?
We'll spell it out in their language, we'll get loads of tourists.
Well, they correctly surmised that it was going to be in British tabloid newspapers,
didn't they?
They did?
Well done, Japan.
I think it was going to be in Hello Magazine.
Maybe it was sponsored by Hello Magazine.
Anyway, yeah, so they didn't have another proper artificial ice rink until 1876, and
that was when they had actually developed the technology, but even that one had a layer
of cow hair under the ice.
Did it?
Yeah.
Was that for some kind of sort of cold insulation?
Because they ran cold types under the ice, didn't they?
You had concrete, the base layer is concrete, and then on top of that you have layers of
earth and wood and cow hair, obviously.
And then on top of that, as you say, they put these pipes, and they ran a chemical solution
through the pipes, which froze the water surrounding the pipes, and it froze the water.
How cool is that?
It's very, very cool.
They were called Galatiariums, weren't they?
Yeah.
Galatiaria, maybe.
But they were incredible.
I didn't realise these things existed, and they were, it sounds amazing, so they were
floating.
There was, I think, the second or the third one that this guy, John Gamgee, who invented
them, made, was a floating one on the Thames, just where the Hungerford Bridge is.
So it was this big floating ice rink, and it had a glass ceiling that went all over
it.
So it was indoors, glass-ceilinged, floating.
Why don't we still have this?
That's very cool.
Yeah.
I find it hard enough to skate on an ice rink that's on solid ground, but one that's also,
like, you get a seasick on as well, that's going up and down.
Maybe it cancels out, and it's just like walking around.
I think, I'm imagining, everybody sliding to one end, and then sliding to the other
end, and then not moving, and always getting bunched up on one side.
So John Gamgee, then, after doing this, he went into perpetual motion.
He invented a thing called the Xerometer, which supposedly would power ships through
perpetual motion.
He put the same, a similar kind of liquid through the ship, which is really cold, that
would take the heat from the water, that would propel the sails and the rotors, which would
then put energy back into the water, and that would supposedly be a perpetual motion machine.
Unfortunately, it didn't work.
Unfortunately, he didn't count on the laws of physics.
Yeah, and he spent the rest of his life and all of his money on that.
He was an extremely accomplished vet, John Gamgee, so he was really good at this.
He founded this vet school and a vet journal, and there's now the John Gamgee Award, which
is basically the only remnant that has his name, which is an award that's given to those
who excel in the field of veterinary science.
And it says in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography that if he'd have carried on being
a vet, instead of going into ice skating rinks of perpetual motion, then he probably
would have been the best vet of all time, maybe, or one of the best vets.
But we wouldn't have ice rinks, so swings and roundabouts, isn't it?
But we would have the pig rink still.
He didn't invent that.
We'd still have the pig rink, thank God.
That would be probably fine.
Can I just...
Because such a cool thing about Gamgee is that his brother was a guy called Sampson Gamgee.
Sam Gamgee?
Well.
So Sampson Gamgee was a doctor, and he invented a kind of tissue that was used in surgical
instruments, which people called the Gamgee tissue.
But Tolkien wrote a letter saying that he'd got the name Samwise Gamgee from that, because
they used to refer to the Gamgee tissue at the end of the 19th century, and it was to
go with Rosie Cotton, who's Samwise Gamgee's wife in Lord of the Rings.
So this guy who invented the ice rink, his brother, was Samwise Gamgee.
That's amazing.
He was Lord of the Rings, and the other guy was Lord of the Rings.
It's not quite true to the text, is it, saying that he's Lord of the Rings, but we'll allow
it.
Hang on.
So Sam Gamgee is named after a cloth.
Yeah.
And his wife were both named after surgical instruments.
That's so funny.
Surely that's a bit of a hack move, isn't it?
It's like the least Lord of the Rings-y thing to do.
You'd think it'd be named after some god or something, yeah.
It's like being called Trevor Goz, so Neville Butterfly Stitch.
What if all the characters in Lord of the Rings are named after all this stuff?
Maybe they are.
Maybe they are.
So we should talk about the machines that go up and down ice rinks, fixing the ice.
It's what the public are crying out for.
You mean Zambaisies?
Zambonies.
Zambonies.
Zambaisies are a river in Africa.
Very rarely freezes.
I assume they were named after that.
Yeah.
Sorry, you mean Zambonies?
Yeah, I do, yeah.
Yeah, of course, they're huge here.
That's very optimistic that I'm going to edit that up.
Yeah, I didn't realise the previous procedure, which was so laborious.
You had a tractor, right, on the ice, and that would pull along a scraper.
Because obviously, as people skate, there are all these little shavings that get sort of cut out of the ice.
So you have a tractor pulling along a scraper.
The scraper scrapes it all up, and then you have to have someone walking behind,
pulling the ice with water, and then squeegeeing it up to mop it up.
So you don't have too much water on the ice, I don't know.
I think it's basically shaving the top layer off the ice, so you've got the smoothness,
and then putting a new layer on that's smooth.
It's basically like repainting, but with water.
But then does the person walking behind leave a lot of footprints in the ice,
and then another machine has to come behind to sweep up.
It's another person, actually, with slightly smaller feet.
Yeah, they're great.
So these are apparently a big deal in the world of ice hockey,
which I'm not very afraid with, and in America,
but they're invented by this guy called Frank Zamboni in 1949,
and they were first made out of old World War II parts, weren't they?
So the first one was made out of bits of a...
Spitfire.
It was a tank, wasn't it?
It was a Douglas bomber, so it was an airplane,
but I think other bits were made out of tanks, maybe.
I think the whole thing was that when he made the machinery,
he then put it on like a military buggy and drove it around,
and that was like a...
Oh, really?
That's so funny.
I went on the website, the official website of Zamboni,
and on the biography it says,
if necessity is the modern invention, Frank Zamboni is probably the father,
which I think it is a bit of a...
He's one successful, quite specific invention.
No, have you seen the other things he invented?
Go on.
One of them is called a black widow.
It's a machine that is invented to fill in the dirt on top of cemetery vaults.
Effectively, levelling the soil on top of a vault
is very similar to levelling the ice on a...
Yeah, he's a typical one-trick pony, isn't he?
He's not a one-trick pony.
But he's adapted a trick,
because he's also invented the Astro Zamboni,
which removes rainwater from astroturf.
And when they had the 50th birthday of the Zamboni proper,
Zamboni Classic,
they had a Zamboni Driver of the Year competition.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Which was won by a guy called Jim McNeill,
who said it was a thrill right up there with getting married and having children.
Wow.
Did you see what he did next?
Obviously, you also...
Get divorced.
Abandoned his children.
Actually, it was a bigger thrill.
Just packing all his stuff up and driving away on a Zamboni.
In 2006, two skating rink workers were fired
after driving a Zamboni to a Burger King drive-thru.
They got fired immediately,
and the director of Park said,
when we interviewed them,
they didn't seem to be too concerned about it.
They leave the Burger King floor extremely smooth.
I don't know.
We should move on, guys.
Can I tell you a really cool thing you can do with ice super quickly?
If you get a bit of cheese wire and you hang weights on either side of it
and you get a big block of ice,
make a big block of ice,
a bit of cheese wire,
hang two litre bottles of water on either side of the cheese wire,
and you put it over the ice so it gradually cuts through it.
And the ice refreezes behind the cheese wire as it cuts through it.
So, the cheese wire will cut all the way through the ice,
come out the other end,
and you've got a completely intact block of ice.
That's amazing.
So, you spent all that time,
and all of your objects were exactly the same as they were when it started.
Exactly.
It's almost a futile activity.
Okay, it's time for fact number two, and that is Anna.
Yeah, my fact this week is that in 1912,
the Toronto government ran a fly swatting competition.
It was won by a 15-year-old girl who killed half a million flies.
So, it's so weird.
I think I read about this on a site called Knowledge Nuts,
which I've actually discovered.
It's a really great site, guys.
I felt like I had to mention it,
because it's not in many other places.
So, this is this contest that flies were a massive problem in 1912.
They spread lots of disease.
There was manure everywhere.
There were big parts of rubbish everywhere in the streets.
The flies aren't causing the manure.
They're going to cause very small amounts of manure.
Yeah.
So, they're adding to the problem, I would say.
Well, actually, don't they eat the manure,
and then they just produce a different type of manure?
What's interesting about that is they take manure
and then they replace it with manure.
It's very much like Anna's ice cream.
They redistribute manure.
They're a redistributing manure on people.
The government didn't like it,
and so the chief medical officer in the Toronto government
got together with the Daily Star, launched this contest.
Every contestant had to be under 16,
and they said they'd give away cash prizes to the children
who brought in the most fly corpses.
And there were people which came,
and they came to this guy called Dr. Hastings,
who was the chief medical officer,
and they brought their fly corpses to him every day,
and he counted them up.
There were lots of quite strict rules,
so you couldn't try and pad out your pint with other material.
That was against the rules.
You couldn't breed the flies once you got them
in order to make more,
because that kind of defeats the whole object.
How do they know you're not going to do that, though?
Exactly.
They just asked you not to.
It was on trust.
That's like what city was it in China
that started offering a bounty for every mouse
or rat you killed or something?
Rat tails or something.
Yeah, and then people just made rat farms
and then just mass bred these rats.
It's quite crafty the idea of padding it out
with other stuff, though,
because that's in a Greek myth, isn't it?
Someone is going to pay the gods some tribute,
and he puts in this sack of rubbish offal,
but then he puts a nice steak on top of it,
and the gods think,
oh, a sack of steak,
and then they work it out
because they're not complete idiots.
There was an old scam that they used to do
with vegetable oil
in that they'd sell you a massive tank of vegetable oil,
but actually it would be water with oil on top of it,
because of course oil floats,
and you'd only see the oil pot.
And that is why cooking oil now
always comes in transparent bottles.
You've got to see it all the way down.
So we've established that piling rubbish underneath
and putting the valuable thing on top is a common trope,
and the Toronto government anticipated this
and said, please don't do it, kids.
Why was the competition only for 16 and younger?
If this was a genuine problem they were trying to solve,
why would they then suddenly...
People have got jobs, Alex.
Well, kids, have school.
I bet this girl, Beatrice White,
scribed a lot of school to get this good.
So this is the girl who won it,
and she set these proper traps,
and if you look up,
if you go to the old newspaper archives,
you can see pictures.
They're quite elaborate,
so she put raw liver underneath them,
and she designed a one-way funnel,
and then she'd agitate flies,
so they flew towards the raw liver,
went through the one-way funnel,
and then they get stuck in these contraptions
she built out of wood and wire,
and then she'd collect them at the end of every day,
and she delivered 500,000 flies to the government.
It is amazing.
She killed them with poison as well, didn't she?
Yeah.
I wonder what poison kills flies.
Oh, I know one.
What?
Arsenic.
Because flypaper used to be full of arsenic, didn't it?
And people would soak flypaper in water,
let the poison leach out,
and then you'd have poisonous water,
and people would,
people murdered each other in the 19th century
with flypaper water.
Did they?
Yeah, you'd say,
have a nice glass of water.
There's a woman called Florence Maybrick in 1889
who poisoned her husband
and was convicted of arsenic poisoning her husband
using flypaper.
Really?
Oh, yeah, but didn't she claim that
he liked to self-medicate with arsenic
for his libido?
And there wasn't enough evidence either way,
she escaped being executed for it,
but she did stay in prison for a long time.
That's not how crime works.
We think you did it.
We're not totally sure,
so we're sort of going to go for a bit of a sentence,
but not a full one.
What they should have done
is stuck her on some flypaper for 20 years.
If she was a Greek parable,
that would have been what they'd done.
My husband in life actually liked shooting himself.
It was good for his libido.
Well, they did used to use arsenic in some medicines, I think,
but they didn't, they had tiny amounts.
So maybe, yeah.
It's plausible.
I'm a believer.
So for many years in many places,
collecting flies and giving them to the government
has gotten you money.
So in China,
officials in Luoyang
offered $125 per 2,000 dead flies
during a campaign.
Really?
Each fly was worth about seven cents.
Was that a massive amount for a fly?
Was this recently, sorry?
That was quite recently, yeah.
In Pennsylvania, in Mansfield, Pennsylvania,
in 1914, it was five cents per pint of flies.
You would get.
In 1988, in Manila,
it was $4.75 per 1,000 flies.
So all the prices are very different.
Yeah.
And there was a guy called Mr. Belen.
About whom James has nothing interesting to say.
He just wanted to get that name in.
Mr. Belen.
It would be great because he was collecting flies.
It'd be great if his name became a verb
to collect flies.
I belend.
He belend.
He belend.
No, he was delivering an average of 200,000 dead flies
per week, making about $1,000 a week.
Wow.
How was he doing that?
Well, he wouldn't give away his tricks.
What tools was he using?
Well, people suggested that he was hatching maggots himself,
an allegation he denied vehemently.
Well, you would do, wouldn't you, with $1,000 a week?
He said that catching flies are a lot like hunting or fishing.
First of all, you have to find out where they hang out,
and then you go there.
And he used a giant fly swatter, which he invented himself.
When you say invented, was it just a fly spot but much bigger?
He wouldn't give anything more away in the article that I read.
You said that to catch them, you have to go to where they are.
Yeah.
So the second place in this competition in Toronto in 1912
went to a girl who lived quite near a 90-metre-long heap of manure.
She never thought that would be an asset
when her parents were buying the house.
I earn so much with the fly-catching competition.
I can actually afford a slightly larger heap of manure now.
But they ran the competition the next year.
They ran it for a second time.
And there weren't any flies to catch, because Beecher is wide.
Scoot them all up.
But her sister came second following year.
And her sister's still caught $200,000 or something.
No, she caught $50,000.
It's nothing.
There's still a lot of flies.
That's true.
The newspaper, the Toronto Star, they tracked down Beatrice White,
who would have been about 71, I think,
and they ran a headline,
The Queen of Fly Killers Found Alive.
And they gave her a can of insecticide to thank her.
Yeah.
And she said that the $50 that she'd won,
she desperately wanted it to pay for her music lessons,
and her dad had kept it for himself.
Really?
Yeah, tough times.
That's horrible.
That is bad.
I think each housefly can carry 6.6 billion...
Sorry, obviously not billion.
Each housefly can carry 6.6 million bacteria on it,
many of which are bad.
I know some are good.
We all know that from the Yakult adverts,
but some of them are bad.
You wouldn't lose down a pint of flies, though,
in the vague hope that some of the bacteria might be friendly.
I gotta say, though,
the difference between a million and a billion,
it's like, it's hardly as if,
oh, thank God, it's only a million.
I wasn't thinking, don't be ridiculous, Alan,
they couldn't have a billion, they must have a million.
It seemed silly to me.
OK, it's time for fact number three,
and that is Alex.
My fact this week is that,
when animating 101 Dalmatians,
Disney photocopied the dogs.
Is that why they're black and white?
Was that at the office party after the shoot had ended?
We photocopied our bums, what else can we do?
Do you know who first came up with the idea
of photographing your body parts?
No.
A genius of some sort.
Yes.
Einstein.
No, Andy Warhol.
Really?
Apparently, it seems like he was possibly
the first person to do it.
In 1969, he walked into an art supply store,
and he knew the owner, who's called Donald Havanick,
and he convinced him to let him do some photocopying
of himself, and there are images of him
with his face on a photocopier.
He didn't do his bum as far as I know.
I would wager that the first person to do that,
knowing the human condition, would have been
the person who invented the photocopier
moments after inventing it,
because that's going to be the first thing
you ever do in a photocopier.
I don't know.
I would be impressed by it, because everyone
now has photocopied parts of themselves
using the flatbed on a photocopier.
I want to see the person who photocopies
himself using the document feeder.
That would be amazing, yeah.
Sliding yourself through.
What do you think they photocopied the dog?
This was in the late 50s.
Disney had made Sleeping Beauty,
and the way that they made that was that
every single frame of the film has to be
really painstakingly drawn, and then
painted onto glass cells.
This is a really expensive and time-consuming process,
and then it didn't do very well at the box office.
Disney was thinking of shutting down their animation offices.
They had to come up with cheaper ways
of making these films.
One of the creatives at Disney
got some equipment from Xerox and
modified it, and found a way of
basically photocopying certain elements
of the drawings, and putting them
onto the glass cells.
They then next made 101 Dalmatians,
and realised that they could specifically
photocopy the spots on the dogs,
because they're going to stay the same,
and you need a different combination
of spots on each dog, and it needs to
be the same dog and stay the same,
and then the backgrounds need to stay the same.
They came up with this way of identifying the dogs
by thinking of the spots as constellations,
and it cost about half as much
as the film, as it would have done,
and kind of saved Disney, and then transformed
the way that they would animate films
from then on until the computer era.
Does that mean all the spots on the dogs
were constellations?
No, they were thought of like constellations.
Tell them to remember them.
It does mean that it would have been like
three Dalmatians if they didn't have
Xerox in the technology.
She just made a tiny, tiny little
glove out of it.
Maybe the Xerox machine only did
100 copies as maximum.
Do you know what toner is made of
in photocopies?
Is it pig fat?
It's pig fat.
No, of course not.
It's different from ink, isn't it?
It's different between toner and ink.
It's not ink.
It's like electrostatically
charged particles.
You do know what it is.
Well, it is, but it's this
incredibly fine powder.
A lot of it's rust.
Rust.
Iron oxide, yeah.
And there's plastic as well.
And there's lots of plastic.
Modern colour photocopy toner
is 95% plastic,
milled into a tiny, tiny, tiny powder,
which then gets fused by heat
with the paper.
OK.
I had no idea.
The photocopy toner is not ink.
That's why it's so expensive.
Yeah.
Because you always see that it's
like 10 times more expensive
than champagne or something, don't you?
Yeah.
And it is done by electromagnetism,
isn't it?
So I think it's a really complicated
process, but you make the bits
that you want to have toner on
be kind of magnetic and then it
attracts the toner to it.
So it needs to be charged.
So the toner has the opposite
charge to the bits of the paper.
That's amazing, isn't it?
Did you know this?
I didn't know this.
Did you know that Canon has been
warning people to take better care
of their office equipment?
It's how they put it.
This is reported on CNET,
but especially during the festive
season, it says the Christmas
season leads to a 25% hike in
service calls due to incidents
such as backside copying pranks.
So there is actually a big
increase in photocopier accidents
during the festive season.
So they've asked us to stop
doing it, please.
Well, I won't.
I don't care what those squares
at Canon have to say.
And he just replies with a
20 copies of his own.
Do you know using a lot of people
use Xerox, especially in America
as a generic word for a photocopier?
Yes.
And according to an advert from
2003, Xerox said,
when you use Xerox, the way you
use aspirin, we get a headache.
And they really hate the way
people do this.
And the reason being is something
called genericide.
And what it is, is it's when you
have your brand becoming so
ubiquitous that everyone uses it,
it means that you can't really
claim intellectual property
over that word.
And so it means your trademark
is basically dead and buried.
And that's why Google don't
like you say, I'm going to Google
it.
They want you to say, I'm going
to search it online using
Google.com or Valkyrie,
they might speak or Valkyrie.
Yeah.
Obviously there are advantages
to that because you become a
very famous brand.
But then at the same time,
it's very difficult to protect
your trademark.
I mean, it hasn't worked for
Google, for instance.
Where are they now?
Yeah.
It's crushed under the
mask.
Jeeves juggernaut.
There was a bug in 2013 in
Xerox machines, which meant
that sometimes numbers would be
randomly replaced in photocopies.
Photocopies are really important
documents.
And then I think fours would
change to ones.
And then this guy...
That explains 404 dalmatians.
The guy did like a TED talk on it
and kind of revealed this bug.
And then Xerox took him on board
and fixed the bug.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's good.
That's amazing.
So the guy who invented the
photocopier, or the Xerox, is so
nice.
It's a really happy story.
It's just from start to finish.
This guy's called Chester Carlson.
And he was brought up really poor.
So he used to have to sleep in a
chicken coop sometimes.
He spent a while having to sleep
outside.
What?
Where did the chicken sleep?
They slept in his four-posted
bed actually.
But he came up with...
He came up with this amazing
technology, which was really
complicated.
And when people talk about it,
it combined loads of different
techniques that no one had ever
thought of combining before.
And was rejected by more than
20 companies.
And it's since been called the
most important thing to happen in
printing since the printing press.
Wow.
Because his technology also was
what laser printers do.
So he basically came up with
modern printing and photocopying.
But he eventually...
You know when you expect to get to
the end of these stories, it'd be
like, oh, he sold the rights to
someone and got a tenor.
He then went into perpetual
motion.
He didn't stop spinning for the
rest of his life.
He got a 16th of a cent for every
single Xerox copy made throughout
1965, which was a lot.
No way.
That's why it's so expensive.
No, as long as that is about ten
years, the period.
Through to 1965, yes, from when
he made it.
But he lived really humbly and he
never bought much stuff.
He gave all of his money away.
He would never, ever wanted his
name to be on stuff.
So when he gave his money to
universities and stuff, he asked
them to put it in honour of the
teacher who'd inspired him and
things like that.
Is it possible that that was
just cover story and that what
he did was he invented a
photocopier and then just
photocopied money?
No one really caught up with
him for years.
Well, it effectively is printing
money.
Basically printing money, yeah.
A 16th of a cent for every
Xerox copy made is unbelievable.
Yeah, that's insane.
Yeah, but I know you're right.
He gave it all away.
But he had a business partner at
the start.
He was a guy called Otto
Kornay.
I think he might have been
Austrian, I'm not sure.
But he walked away about a year
into the process.
He said, I don't see this going
anywhere.
Oh, dear.
And he could have been a
multimillionaire, but I know.
But Chester Carlson, the reason
he tried to invent a photocopier
in the first place was because
he worked for years as a law
student and a patent attorney.
And he spent like all his time
copying legal documents by hand
and develop chronic arthritis
because of it.
And he was just so pissed off
that he had to do this.
Oh, really?
That he was like, I need a
machine for this.
Oh.
He had other inventions.
Oh, here we go.
A contextual motion machine.
A raincoat with gutters to
channel water away from
trouser legs.
Now, actually, that is a good
idea.
He invented a toothbrush with
replaceable bristles.
He invented a transparent
toothpaste tube, which seems
really unnecessary.
No, that's, I would love that
because how do they get the
stripes in it?
Yeah.
And if it's transparent, it
means that people can't hide
awful inside your
toothpaste.
The top millimetre of
toothpaste and the rest is just
pig fat.
The number of times that
Aquafresh have got me with that
trick.
Do you know where photocopying
has been banned?
Oh.
In the
Bank of England.
Oh, that's a good idea.
North Korea.
Well, it may well have been.
I don't know how many photocopies
there are in North Korea, but
in 2010, in Tibet,
it was banned.
People in the capital
would have to register their name
if they wanted to make
photocopies.
Basically, the Chinese
authorities
were worried about people
spreading literature saying,
hey, maybe the Chinese
should leave
Tibet.
And so they said,
well, no more photocopying
for you.
Fuji has developed a new
robotic printer that moves
around allowing your office
bringing documents to the person
who printed them.
That's a great idea.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
I mean, our office is quite
secure.
I'm not sure how much use we get,
and it's got a step in the middle
of it.
Yeah.
So if you're in a public space
and you have some documents
which are quite
secure or sensitive
and you want to print them out,
but you don't want anyone else
to see them, you don't want to
print them and then have to go
over because there might be
someone stood there and they
might read your
anti-Chinese propaganda.
And so
I've said sorry about printing
that using the office printer,
right?
And so if they come to you,
then it means that you'll
always get the right ones.
I guess, but isn't there a
minimal intercepted on the way?
Yeah.
You know, if people look at my
screen and the constant they see
I'm on free Tibet.com,
and then the sensitive document
robot keeps on shuffling back
and forth to me.
Actually, photocopies
and a holding sensitive document
is a major issue that there's
someone, this guy is trying to
highlight.
So I didn't realize this,
but every time you photocopy
something, then it stores
exactly what you photocopied
on a hard drive.
So since 2002,
they photocopies have got a record
of every single thing that's been
through them.
So there's this guy called
Jun Toonan who has a digital
security company.
And he tried to prove how risky
this is by buying randomly
buying up some secondhand
photocopies.
So we bought up four of them
to show that they hold all this
digital information.
He actually said we didn't even
have to wait for the first one
to warm up.
One of the copiers had documents
still on the copier glass from
the New York police crime
division.
Oh my God.
What?
They hadn't even taken it out of
the thing.
They hadn't even taken their
sex offenders list off the
flatbed in the photocopier.
So he opened it up and got that.
Wow.
But he hacked into the hard
drives and he got, for instance,
300 pages of people's individual
medical records.
So all details of the medical
records.
Like blood prescriptions,
blood test results,
diagnoses.
He got lots more lists of sex
offenders.
He got lists of pay stubs and
people's bank details that they
photocopied.
So, yeah, this is a thing.
Old photocopiers are holding.
Was one of the photocopiers he
bought from the New York police
sex crimes department or something
like this?
It must have been, right?
It must have been.
He probably was waiting, hovering
on the eBay button for ages and
ages.
Slam.
Got it.
Okay, it's time for a final fact
and that is James.
Okay, my fact this week is that
seeds have brains.
And James doesn't.
How similar to our brains are
they?
Are they the same?
Well, they're smaller.
If I was talking to one at a
party, how long would it take me
to notice that I was talking to
a seed?
It's similar to a person.
I think that you don't, you
tend to make that decision not
just based on people's brains.
Okay, let's say it's got a face
painted on it.
You stop talking to people if
you notice their brain waves
aren't working.
I think that guy over there is
an acorn.
So anything in case I was being
rude.
So what this is, is they've
taken some seeds and they've
worked out how they make the
decision of when they need to
germinate and they've looked at
all the different cells and they
found that it's just a few cells
that make this decision.
And it's very complicated, but
the way they make the decision is
quite analogous to the way that
animals make decisions with their
brains.
And so the people who have done
this study are saying that
basically it's very similar to a
brain, but much smaller, much
simpler, but it's similar.
Now, that doesn't mean that they
have brains like us because they
don't.
But it's basically quite
interesting because the last
time plants and animals had a
common ancestor was like 1.6
million, oh, sorry, stupid.
1.6 billion.
And even though it was that much
time, they've kind of come up
with the same solution to the
problem, which is by using these
cells to communicate with each
other and then saying, okay, now
that we've communicated, we're
going to release these hormones,
et cetera.
So it's about the cells
communicating with each other
within the seed.
Exactly.
And that's, I mean, what is a
brain apart from a few cells
communicating with one another?
Yeah, it's all minors.
It's kind of like you guys.
But it kind of sounded like it's
slightly, well, in the Oscar, it
rolled it down a bit to half of
the cells are saying, like, grow,
grow, grow.
And the other half is saying,
like, don't stay, stay here
because stay a seed.
And it's just up to, like, then
it's then deciding which one to
follow.
And it's just like when you're
in bed and you're like, stay in
bed all day or get up and do
stuff.
Yeah.
And it's pretty analogous to
that because for, for a plant,
it can't sprout too early in
case the temperature gets cold
again.
But it can't wait too late.
It can't stay in bed too late
because then all the other seeds
will have sprouted and they'll
crowd out the resources.
So it is like that.
You can't get out of bed too
early because it'll be dark and
you'll get bump into things, but
you can't get out too late.
Otherwise the tube will be very
busy.
There was a good headline in New
Scientist, which is quite
misleading that said, it just
said, plant parents tell their
seeds when to sprout by passing
down their memories.
And I thought this is going to
blow this podcast wide.
Oh, plants have memories and
they transmit their memories to
the children.
This is unbelievable.
They can't transmit memories to
each other.
Actually, what it is is, but it
is still quite interesting.
So as you say, it's important
when seeds sprout, and actually
sometimes they might want to
sprout earlier or later, depending
on the weather, and the plant
parent can work out.
So if it's warm weather, it knows
that it'll make a slightly thinner
casing for its seeds.
So it sprouts quickly to take
advantage of the weather.
Whereas if it's cold weather, the
plant senses that and automatically
makes a thick casing for the seed
and that means when it's dispersed,
it takes longer to hatch out and
the weather will have got warmer
by then.
So in a way...
That is clever.
That is very clever.
It's like me saying, if I put my
baby in a hat, that I'm passing
my memory to it.
So on plant seeds, you know
argan oil?
No.
I went to Morocco at the end of
last year and they were banging
on and on about argan oil in every
single market.
They're like, you love argan oil,
don't you?
From Argan trees.
Is it Argan or Argon?
Argan.
So it's a thing that's really
popular now apparently for girls
to use in their hair.
It's a big deal.
I could see why you thought we
would know.
Look at Andy's hair.
It's riddled with argan.
Dripping with argan oil.
I'm hoping it's argan oil.
It's actually water that I was
sold as argan oil when I
unscrewed this trainer in
Morocco.
But anyway, this is kind of...
This is a massive boon, how popular
it is, for places like Morocco
where it's made.
I thought argan trees were the
ones where the goats live.
They are.
So 60% of argan nuts, which is
where you get argan oil, are
distributed by goats.
So you're right.
Argan trees are the ones that
goats climb up and they can get
up to eight metres up a tree
and then they eat the argan leaves
and the fruits and stuff.
And the seeds, they then
regurgitate within about a day
and they spit them out somewhere
else.
And that's how they're
distributed.
So this argan oil that you ladies
and gentlemen are putting on
your skinnier hair or whatever
it's for has been dispersed by
tree-climbing goats.
That's very cool.
I have a fact about those goats.
Go on.
It's that the domestic ones
don't know how to climb trees
and they have to be taught by
keepers, human keepers, how to
climb up.
How do they teach them?
I don't know.
I haven't found any footage beyond
just that fact.
It's well worth Googling
argan tree goats, isn't it?
Yeah.
If you haven't seen that picture
before, it's...
Yeah.
Or you can watch the special
feature of how to do QI research
on volume two of the QI DVD
box set.
Which is all about argan trees
and goats.
Oh, that's how I must have known
that.
Me too.
So elephants transport seeds as
well.
They can transport seeds up to
65 kilometres away from the tree
that they've eaten, the fruit or
whatever.
Wow.
And that's by far the biggest
mover of seeds out for any animal
at all.
Wow.
You know, like three times more
than any bird.
Really?
Or anything like that, yeah.
That's incredible.
And it comes out in their feces
presumably.
It does.
Okay.
So they travel 65 kilometres
between poods.
That's what it sounds like,
doesn't it?
I've done that on a motorway
before.
You transported the seeds from
South Mims to Carby Services.
Where do you think 75% of
Mexico sesame seeds go?
So they go into Andy's car to
travel up the M6.
Is it they get turned into Halva
paste?
Nope, they go on.
They say they go to McDonald's.
They do.
They all end up on McDonald's
burgers.
Three quarters of all the
sesame seeds in Mexico.
I think that's amazing.
That is amazing.
Wow.
Wow.
What else do you use them for?
Halva paste.
No one else?
Is that another hair product?
No, it's a mouth product.
If you put it in your mouth.
It's delicious.
Is it?
Okay, great.
I'll look it up.
So it's a food then?
It's a food.
Or as I call it, a mouth product.
I read an article about
Mexican farming the other day.
It was about the avocado farmers
in various cities.
They've now formed their own
militias because they were being
ripped off and blackmailed and
extorted by gangsters.
And they have proper, you know,
assault weapon militias, concrete
bunkers, all this stuff just to
protect the avocado crops because
it's so valuable to them.
Isn't it avocados, though, that
they would be extinct if it weren't
for humans eating them because
they lost the mechanism to
distribute their seeds?
That is true.
It's because avocado seeds are
too large to pass for any animals
that are currently extant.
So the thing that avocados evolve
to be distributed by has been
extinct for 12,000 years.
With a very large anus.
It was thought to be distributed
by Piers Morgan.
It was a ground sloth, guys.
It was a three-meter-long
ground sloth called the
Megalonix Jeffersoni and it ate
the avocados and then it was
able to distribute the seeds.
But they haven't existed for
12,000 years and we don't know
why avocados have managed to
exist without them because humans
surely haven't been distributing
avocado seeds in a systematic way
for 12,000 years, it seems
unlikely.
And yet they've stuck around.
Really good.
Can I just say something about
brains?
When you sleep, your brain cells
shrink to half their normal size.
As you sleep, your brain cells
literally get half as big.
Does your head shrink to half
its normal size?
Can you understand?
Is your brain literally
50 per cent the size of it is?
Have you never seen a sleeping
person?
It's like an all-size body
and then like a doll's head.
No.
It's incredible.
It's unbelievable.
Is that why you yawn when you
wake up?
Because you're like re-inflating
yourself.
No, so they found this out
recently.
They can shrink by up to 60 per cent
while you sleep and they think
this is because I think we've
mentioned that they've recently
discovered that the purpose of
sleep, they believe, is to flush
out all the waste from your brain.
So it allows fluid to travel around
your brain cells and in between
them and kind of flush out all the
useless stuff.
And that's why your brain uses
the same amount of energy when
you sleep as when you're awake
because it's doing all this
stuff.
And it's thought that by
shrinking, it creates more space
around the cells so that the
fluid can flush through them more
easily and get rid of all the
waste.
That is amazing.
That's so cool, isn't it?
So cool.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
If you get a vole and you put
it in a female vole, this is,
and you put it in a cage with a
male vole and then you stimulate
certain parts of its brain, then
the female vole will fall in love
with the male vole.
Sorry, which brain are you
stimulating?
The females.
Really?
Yeah.
Why would you do that?
Is there some kind of Shakespearean
comedy where they have a love
potion administered?
The taming of the vole.
No, this is just a study that was
done in Atlanta and they got this
vole and they stimulated it and
put it in with the male and then
they put the female vole into
another cage with both that male
and another one and she always
went for the one that she was
hanging out with while she was
being stimulated in her brain.
And then they did it with another
vole who hadn't had her brain
stimulated and she would more
often go for the new guy.
Oh, really?
Is it got anything to do with
because vole is an anagram for
love and if you're scrambling
someone's brain out there just
saying like, I'm a vole, I'm a
vole, I'm in love.
I didn't know we knew that
voles felt love.
I'm excited.
I think we might be extrapolating
in the same way that I extrapolated
that this was a brain and a seed.
Don't believe anything you've
heard over the last half an hour.
OK, that's it.
That's all of our facts.
Thank you so much for listening.
If you want to get in contact with
any of us about the things that
we've said, you can find us on
Twitter.
I am an Andrew Hunter M. James
at egg shaped Alex at Alex Bell
under school and Anna.
You can email podcast at qi.com.
You can also go to our website
which is no such thing as a
fish.com and you can hear all
our previous episodes on there.
And what about our tour, Andy?
We're going on tour.
We're going on tour all over the
UK in October and November of
this year.
So go to qi.com slash fish
events to get tickets for that.
Anyway, I'm going to go back and
carry on writing our new book.
Oh, we've got a book coming out.
We have.
That sounds great.
What's it going to be about?
It's going to be about the news of
the year and you can get that by
going to qi.com slash fish book.
OK, we'll be back again next week
with another podcast.
Thank you so much for listening
this time and goodbye.
Bye.