No Such Thing As A Fish - 381: No Such Thing As A Safe Toothpick

Episode Date: July 9, 2021

Dan, James, Anna and Andrew discuss popular plaques, pioneering puppets, pointy picks and powerful people. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes.

Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from one very disclosed location. It is the QI offices in Covent Garden, we are back! My name is Dan Schreiber, I am sitting here at a very comfortable 2 meter distance from Anna Tyshensky, Andrew Hunter Murray and James Harkin and once again we have gathered around the microphones with our 4 favourite facts from the last 7 days and in no particular order here we go! Starting with fact number 1 and that is James.

Ok my fact this week is that there is a type of glue that was developed specifically to help strong men grab onto giant stone spheres. So cool. So strong men competitions this is where you see them basically lift these giant boulders don't you up onto platforms. So if you imagine on British television between Christmas and New Year there is nothing else on TV apart from World's Strongest Man which is the best show ever where they get these enormous men like pulling trucks and doing all sorts of stuff but like you say one of

the things is called the Atlas Stones and there is a substance called spider tack that was invented by a part time strong man and part time molecular biologist called Mike Caruso. He smashed all the test tubes in my lap isn't he! And yeah basically he was carrying these big boulders and one of the big problems is actually gripping them as someone who has lifted a giant boulder myself I could definitely say that. I think I mentioned it on this before that in Iceland I was lifting some giant boulders

might come to that later but anyway so he was struggling to grip them so he took some rosin which is that stuff that if you play the violin and for instance you pot on your bow to make it. Sure. I'm just helping you here. Thank you. I feel comfortable. And then he added some polymers to the rosin and he can't disclose what kind of polymers

are in it he calls it a special sauce and he came up with this incredibly sticky stuff. Now he sold about 10 of these a year so it wasn't really a big deal but it's come up really recently because it's basically spoiled baseball because baseball pitchers who throw the ball have discovered it and if they put it on their hands it makes the hands able to spin the ball a hell of a lot which makes the ball impossible to hit and so it's come into the news recently that this stuff exists. Yeah because so it is a big controversy at the moment in baseball because batting averages are at the lowest they've ever been and they think it's because specifically of this kind

of glue and other glues that are being brought in but it's just whole new era of baseball where everyone's striking out and yeah. Yeah there was the Yankees have got a picture called Gerrit Cole and they signed him on a nine year deal for three hundred and twenty four million dollars in 2019 he was the best pitcher ever they you know they had to pay all this money for him. They sorry they signed him for three hundred and twenty four million dollars. Yeah over nine years. Wow over nine years.

It's only about forty million dollars a year come on Anna it's cheap skate. Sorry I'm so sorry but they asked him if he used spider tack and he was really really evasive in this interview it's amazing he's like oh I don't know how to answer that question the question was do you use spider tack and he said I don't know how to answer that question and there's a suggestion that his form has gone really badly down in the last couple of weeks because they've now banned this spider tack and all the commentators I'm not saying it's true but all the commentators are saying that is because they've stopped him from using it he's suddenly turned into a terrible pitcher.

Interesting. What's amazing though is that the inventor of this this Hulk Bruce Banner guy half chemist half big monster he doesn't quite know how they're using it in baseball because it's too sticky a substance. He doesn't like baseball. Right. Yeah there's an amazing interview with TheAthletic.com by Steven J. Nesbitt a journalist and he found this guy and he asked him you know what do you think of this and he goes oh I had

no idea it was popular in baseball I don't watch baseball in fact I don't watch any sports I'm too busy to watch sports so he didn't realize that he's spoiled this sport. That's very interesting. Is it cheating to use glue when you're trying to lift up a stone sphere do you guys think it's a good question. Yeah I think no because I think the whole purpose is the weight of it. I think obviously you could lose grip but I think we're trying to look at who can hold things that are really heavy as opposed to who's got good grip on an object.

I would say part of holding things a crucial part is grip. You're right it's often a lot of these stones are in Scotland aren't they and it's rainy a lot there so that must make it a lot harder to lift the stone. Does rain make it harder. I figured that would give you more grip. It's because like you know if you put your hands on wet surfaces don't our hands go a bit. Yeah that's actually why cars can stop so easily in rainy conditions.

No but what I'm saying is our hands adapt to they go wrinkly it gives you handhold grips natural handhold. That's a good point. I'm not sure it's proven that the reason our hands go wrinkly is for grip I know that's one of the dominant theories. Yeah imagine if there was one really strong man he was the strongest in the world but he's a real butterfingers and so he lost every single tournament for that reason. He's got no fingerprints and he can't lift everything but he can't commit crimes.

So someone else wins a trophy and he steals it often. Exactly. It's a serious. They're also called manhood stones aren't they sometimes and there seems to be a very important one in Iceland which may indeed be the one that you've lifted and you lifted the Husafell stone. Yes. Oh no I haven't no the Husafell stone though.

Oh that's the biggie you just lifted Daniel stone in Iceland. So Husafell stone is just one stone that you carry from one place to another it's in someone's garden or something I think right. I think it's been used as a strong man stone for over a century and before that it was used as a gate to a goat pen in Iceland. What a promotion. That's huge. Well maybe you prefer being the goat checker but that's the big one that people go and

lift if they want to and. And there are also four more in a place called djupalonsadur and where there are four different size stones I have mentioned this before and whichever one you can carry would depend on where you would work on the boat and the people who lifted the heavier one would be in the more difficult rowing place but they would get more of the catch so they get more fish when they when it came in. So where are you in the boat. Well I'm not very strong.

There's one called useless which is 23 kilograms which is relatively easy to lift and then there's one called weakling which is 54 kilograms which I could lift but I found extremely difficult and it was the grip genuinely like you could kind of get it on your knees and lift it up quite easily but just getting your hands around it and then the other two half strength which is 100 kilos and full strength which is 154 kilos barely could move them like that big one literally couldn't move it. I mean that's that's really heavy. Is there anything for like is there a stone which would give you an administrative role

on the docks not being on the boat at all. Just a little pebble. Yeah in exchange for some sardines every day. The thing is when I did it it was it was really raining and I always use that as an excuse that oh it was really slippy and stuff but now you mentioned that my hands would have gone wrinkly. That's no excuse anymore. You should have held on longer.

Yeah. If you want to try atlas stones at home you can buy spider tack online and you can also buy atlas stones online. I found one 75 kilo ball which was 200 pounds 50 pound shipping because presumably you need a strong mount. Do you know one of the hardest things about being a strongman is well the the lifting of things you think the lifting that's pretty bad but according to Lloyd Reynolds who is a strongman and an NHS physio it's driving up and down the British motorways.

These long drives basically travel is the biggest problem for strongmen when they get on a plane their seats they're like our butts are too big we're way too bulky so air attendants tend to sit them if they can in their own row so that the other person next to them is not getting squished they try and give them as many breaks to stand up and stretch and move around. Interesting did I ever say the thing on here I don't think I did about I read an interview with some discus throwers and they're really big guys especially around the shoulders and whenever the American Olympic team goes to the Olympics the discus throwers always sit

next to the long distance runners because the long distance runners are so skinny. Presumably they must be sat on the side of the dominant throwing arm right because that's going to be that's a bulky arm. Maybe that's why they are always pulling planes and cars they just can't fit in them. They've got to get it up there picking someone up. There was a World Strongest Man competition which was in Botswana in 2016 and all 30 competitors had to get on the same plane from Johannesburg to Botswana and apparently there was one of the competitors Brian Shaw has won World Strongest Man four times pretty big guy.

He's six foot eight he weighs 31 stone and when he was on the plane he couldn't fit into the loo and he had to take aim from outside. That's amazing. What was it at the water at the boutique? It's a big old manhood stone coming out of there. Do you know who is the World Strongest Woman at the moment as of 2020? No. It is someone we mentioned on the podcast.

Is it the Watermelon Olsen? Yeah, Courtney Olsen. It is Olga Leashchuk who was the former holder of the Watermelon Crushing Record before Courtney came along. Courtney wow. Yeah. I saw a really good interview with her because they asked her about her diet and she says she prefers newborn babies. It's a joke, it's a joke of course.

And there's a brilliant video of her carrying a 200 kilogram yoke so a yoke is like what a milkmaid would hold like a stick across the shoulders with two heavy weights on it and she's walking supposedly with this yoke but she's going so fast the judge who's not carrying anything can't keep up with her. Wow. She's amazing honestly, incredible. Wow. The other thing they carry is fridges famously and so it's a classic strong man test, 1977

first World Strongest Man contest. Have you guys ever seen the video of that? No. So it was the first one ever and it wasn't really a thing being a strong man and so no one really knew how to train for it. Everyone came from a real range of backgrounds usually like some kind of sport but Franco Colombo was one of the competitors in 1977 World Strongest Man and he was famous at the time for blowing up hot water bottles until they exploded and other beats of strength

like that. Worst house guest ever. That's pretty, I mean that's a different kind of strength. Yeah, it's good isn't it? He could also bend steel bars but the problem was he was much smaller than the other competitors. He weighed about 100 pounds less than most of the other competitors and they hadn't really saved you tested the fridge race and you should look it up if you can hack it. They start with fridges on their backs and they start running and within about two strides

his leg snaps. Oh no. It's like a tug of war fact from over again. He's fine, he's fine. There's an interview with him in the hospital later, he's like that was a bit of a bitch and they cancel the fridge race until 2004 and now they have a crossbar and a fridge on each side to balance the weight but it is an unbelievable thing to watch. Presumably he had immediate access to a bag of cold peas to put on the fridge.

Okay, it is time for fact number two and that is Anna. My fact this week is that the first animated puppet film used insect corpses as the puppets. Wow. It's pretty creepy but very cool. This was a sort of one of the founders of animated film, Wladysh Rav Starevich. He started out as an entomologist, Polish entomologist and moved into animation. This was at the turn of the 20th century and so he loved insects. So at one point he was director of the Museum of Natural History in Lithuania and in 1909

he decided he wanted to make a film that just showcased how cool the stag beetle was, the favourite insects and he wanted to show two male stag beetles fighting over a mate but when he tried it they died under the sort of glare of the film lights and their legs sort of melted off whatever so he thought okay this isn't going to work. So he removed their legs and he exchanged the legs for tiny little wires attached to their thoraxes, they are not alive at this point, attached to their thoraxes and then he filmed frame by frame them fighting and moving like stop motion. There was also some Russians say, for instance because he was born in Russia,

Russians sort of claim him as the father of stop motion although there are some rivals for that. But yeah he would move the insects leg a millimetre and then show it again and a millimetre and show it again. They're all online and they are phenomenal. Oh they're captivated aren't they? Yeah I mean his whole catalogue of work is online that you can see but yeah these insects, these beetles at the time, people who watch them, I read this in one place, I haven't been able to find the actual reviews that say this is true but it was so convincing what he did, people thought it was basically amazing insect training.

I found one of those reviews. It said in 1911 the trainer must be a man of magical endurance and patience. So yeah and he didn't give away the secrets of how he did it either, he wanted to keep him this deep. So he also hinted that there were gears and pulleys at work. I mean he was definitely keeping his secret. Yeah it was definitely advertised, at least in Britain for some reason. It was advertised as trained insect puppets on film. It would take more attention than dead things I've strapped wiretip.

Interesting that the Russians claim him as their own because his whole family hated Russia. Because he was born around Moscow but he was taken to Kaunas in Lithuania, in modern day Lithuania because his father didn't want him to be too Russian. And so he stayed with his grandfather in Kaunas and he was expelled from school for skipping the Orthodox Mass which was like a Russian church. So he didn't really want to be part of that because his father had kind of taught him to be like this. And he invented a shooting range in his house which had moving figures. And one of the figures was General Moravyov who was like the famous Russian general

who kind of put down the November uprising. And whenever you shot him he would kind of fall down and then be hanged by his neck. Wow! And his grandparents forced him to take it down because they knew that if the local police saw it then they would probably take him away and stuff. Yeah, it's hard to spin that. It's an ode to your great work. Yeah, that's as a child of that slate. So you can see where he got all the kind of moving parts of his insects.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And he was Polish as well. He seemed to have claimed lots of different nations but his parents were Polish, hence the Poland and Russia had an old relationship. And he changed his name at some point, didn't he, as well? Was that in connection to that? That was when he moved to France because obviously it's a bit of a, I'm glad Anna pronounced his name at the start, which is not so hard, but how do you pronounce his first name? Fortunately, it's my grandad's name, so I know it's Frodishrov.

I think that's probably incorrect, so I'm sure a Polish listener can write an incorrect name. Because it's got that L with a line through it which is pronounced like a W a little bit, isn't it? Yeah, Frodishrov. But yeah, he moved to France and he changed his name to make it a bit easier for people to pronounce, I think, to Ladislas Starovic. Yeah, I'm sure you guys read loads of the descriptions of the movies. I really like the cameraman's revenge. Did you see this one? This is so good. So Mr and Mrs Beetle, married couple, they're bored.

They became less realistic over time, doesn't they? So Mr Beetle meets a dragonfly who is in the middle of an affair with Mr Grasshopper, right? But Mr Beetle is so sexy, he steals away Mrs Dragonfly from Mr Grasshopper. Grasshopper, the cuck in this scenario, is furious, but he's also a cameraman, okay? And he films Mr Beetle's affair with his ex, Mrs Dragonfly, right? Anyway, Mr Beetle and Mrs Beetle, they're eventually reconciled with each other, and they get back together and they say, let's go to the movies. But the projectionist at the cinema is Mr Grasshopper, and he puts on a movie called The Unfaithful Husband,

which is footage of Mr Beetle having it off with Mrs Dragonfly. I have some questions about this, about Beetles and Dragonflies having sex with each other. That's unrealistic, Charlie. It's kind of fan fiction, I guess. That's a lot of plot for what were, I thought, like, 30-second movies back in the day. How long is this? This was his, this is Maglamopus, this is his citizen cane. Yeah, I don't know, but anyway.

I think it was a bit longer. A few minutes, yeah. About 13 minutes, I can see now. I think his Maglamopus came a bit later, wasn't it? It was The Tale of the Fox, which was the first feature animation film, so it's over an hour long. Oh, wow. And that's, what I find interesting about that is it's based on a Goethe story called Reinecker-Fuchs, which is based on a much, much older kind of medieval story called Reynard the Fox.

And Reynard the Fox is basically, it's a fox and a wolf, and the fox is very sly and amoral, but he's very charismatic and he always gets into trouble. And you have all these medieval stories about this fox doing naughty things, but eventually a bit like Dennis the Menace kind of getting his way in the end. And these tales have been going since the 12th century. And in English, they're called Reynard the Fox. In French, they're called Reynard the Fox. And Reynard is now French for fox.

And so the French word for fox comes from this character from medieval history. Isn't that interesting? Fox the Fox. That's awesome. And in that one, so he got adept at making other animals, didn't he? Not just insects. And in fact, everywhere it seems to say he worked completely alone, which he did, he didn't like outside influence and he turned down Hollywood

because he wanted to do it all himself. But he didn't like outside of his family assistance, but his wife was a tailor, I think, and his wife made a lot of the animals for him. And his daughter directed and wrote a lot of his films with him. But in the Reynard the Fox, he made like, I think he made some lots of animals out of different animals. It seems really weird. Like the lion was made of deer skin, I think.

And just really mixing it up. Wow. But it's very adult content. Animation was not for kids back then. It's kind of dark. Again, that one, look that up online. The animation is phenomenal in that. It's absolutely extraordinary.

And as you were saying, James, it was the first animation. So it beats Snow White, which is seen as the seminal opening animated movie of Hollywood, beat it by eight months in coming out. So this guy was a true pioneer who's sort of been lost to the annals of history slightly. Do you want to hear the least relevant fact that I found in the research for this section? It's about art and insects and drawings, right? And filming. So this is a sports writer fact.

And in fact, it's a newsy one. There is a team of two men whose job is to go along the length of the route of the Tour de France. And their job is to draw butterflies out of penises that people have graffitied on the road. They're called the Eraser Men. Let's effacer. And this is a great article about them on the Ruler website. Basically, you're filming from above, aren't you? The Tour de France.

And people go along the route every year writing insane graffiti. They draw a lot of syringes because they're implying that, you know, the cyclists are all... There's loads of messages like Ale, Alaphilippe or whoever, like whoever's... They put messages for their favorite writers, but I've never seen a penis. Well, that's because the let's effacer are doing their job. And every hundred meters or so on the route, apparently, there's a penis and they have to transform it. Or they make it unrecognizable if they can't do a decent butterfly. Are the testicles the two big eyeballs?

I would think that the wings might be relevant there. But their versatile is what I'm saying. And they change the syringes into ladders and, you know, they just... It's a very pointy bit on the top of that ladder. Is that the famous hole? Turn that into the Empire State Building instead. You've got the... Oh, my God, Dan.

We've got thousands of miles of road to go. And you're saying, do the Empire State Building. We've got 40,000 windows on it. Oh, my God, Dan. Who's paying them to do this? I think it's either the broadcaster or the organizers of the Tour de France. I know. They use hundreds of litres of paint. It's tough. It's tough work.

It's not as tough as actually cycling in the Tour de France, is it? But sure. I don't know. It must be stressful. I don't know how far ahead of the Tour de France it is. Come on, come on. I just need to do the proboscis on the front of my... They're catching up. This movie, The Tale of the Fox, which was by Starevich,

we said was one of the early animations. It was the first feature animation puppet film. There were a few older feature animation films. The oldest that we have, which is still extant, is called The Adventures of Prince Ahmed, and it's by the German animator, Lotte Reiniger. And she used a system a bit like Shadow Puppets. I don't know if you guys have seen...

In fact, I know you have seen Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, part one. How do you know we've seen it? Well, I'm just looking at you. I've known you for long enough, but you've definitely seen that. We're all wearing our sorting hats. There's a bit where they tell a little short film inside the film called The Tale of the Three Brothers. It's that kind of style.

And this woman called Lotte Reiniger, she made this animation technique, and she made loads and loads of movies, and the first one she made was in 1926. What I like about her is that she later married her creative partner called Karl Koch, but she kept her name Lotte Reiniger so that she wasn't called a Lotte Koch.

I'm not sure that was the reason she did that. It's got to be. Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that the man who popularized toothpicks in American restaurants did so by paying Harvard men to eat at fine establishments and then shout at the waiters

if they were told wooden toothpicks were not available. So this is a sort of cheeky promotional tool to get your product bought. This was a guy called Charles Forster, and he was a guy who had seen when he was overseas in Brazil toothpicks being used by many people in South America. He thought this is something that should be done here. So he went back home and he managed to design

the modern-day toothpick, the really cheap little wooden stick that we find in most places. That is Charles Forster's invention. And once he had the invention, he thought, how can I convince Americans that they need this in their mouths because it was seen as sort of a bit crude. No one was really interested in it.

So he used to pay people, particularly sort of very rich people like Harvard men to go in, cause a ruckus, and then they would threaten to never eat in the establishment again. And once they left, the next day, Charles Forster would either himself or send someone else there going,

would you like to buy a box of wooden toothpicks? And the owner goes, of course, yes, thank you. Why didn't the owner ever go, hmm, how suspicious? I wonder if Harvard guys randomly kicked up a huge fuss yesterday about this. I mean, you'd see it coming. Well, he would sometimes go in first as well. So let's say there was a shopkeeper.

He would go into a shop and he would say to the shopkeeper, look, would you like to buy some of these? I'm selling them toothpicks. You could buy a few boxes of them. And the shopkeeper would say, I'm not interested. And then he would hire a young person to go into the shop, ask for some toothpicks, not be able to get any because the shopkeeper had said no.

Then he would go back. The shopkeeper would say, all right, I will have some toothpicks. Then the young people would go back in, buy the toothpicks, return them to Charles Forster, who then has the toothpicks back again that he sold to the shopkeeper in the first place. But then he reused the toothpicks. Yeah, he would resell them then to the shop,

which to me means he's making a loss. Yeah, absolutely. If there's a markup in the shop, he's losing that amount of money. But I can only assume he then sells in bulk after that. He's like, I will tell you 20 boxes. I hope so. Because if not, maybe that's why this guy

wasn't the biggest financier ever. But yeah, it feels like a risk. But I guess it was a risk that was worth taking. A lot of gullible shopkeepers and restaurateurs around in those days. He claimed his toothpicks were made of the choicest part of the white birch log, which sounds like he's going one toothpick per mug.

Really? I'm just going to find the exact part of that birch tree. But no, you make millions and millions from each one, didn't you? Yeah. And he did this all in a bit of America called strong, which is in Maine. And for a long time, that was the toothpick capital

of the world, as they called themselves. So 95% of all wooden toothpicks manufactured in America were out of strong. So we're talking something around the World War II period. 75 billion toothpicks per year were being sent out. That's too many. That's too many. There was 1,000 people living in that town at the time.

So that meant each per year, they were making 75 million toothpicks. That's a lot. 5 billion? What were they being used for? They mostly went to waste, sure. Given the world's population, that would be every person using 25 per year.

But I'm sure they weren't as evenly distributed as that. No. And back then, much smaller. I like the fact that we're talking about strong in Maine. Strong Maine. We were talking about strong Maine earlier. Strong as Maine. When the demand declined for toothpicks,

when people realized we don't need 1,000 each per year, they tried to innovate because obviously these factories in strong suddenly, they didn't know what to do. And so they tried to come up with new versions of toothpicks. And one of them was they would make it square in the middle so that when you put it on a table, it wouldn't roll off. I don't know how clever it is, Anna, because I think that it's never been a huge problem for me

is you put your toothpick down on the table. It has for me. It has for me. How wonky are your tables that say the toothpick is rolling off? Just adjust the angle that the toothpick is on and that'll solve the problem. My housemates get really pissed off because I'm a compulsive toothpick user.

I probably go through about 10 a day. Wow. And they are all over the floor. Because you put them on your desk. Yes, it's a bit of a wobbly desk. It falls onto the sitting room floor. Get a new one. It's an issue.

And I can't believe these didn't take off. I can't believe you were questioning how many toothpicks were needed per day. I know. I'm the main consumer. 10 a day. Apparently he wasn't even very good at making stuff for stay. I think he was just a good businessman, wasn't he?

Like, he requisitioned shoe peg makers to make toothpicks. And apparently they used the same skills. But that seemed so weird to me because a shoe peg was something that attached the, like, heel of a shoe, the base of a shoe to the top of a shoe. And so it's got to be quite thick to do that, right? That's like when you've got to attach two bits together in DIY.

It's got to be... Like a dowel. Like your thumb, exactly. And then they turn that into a toothpick. That seems... If you're using a toothpick to hold your shoe together, your shoe's coming off. But it's an easier,

I guess it's an easier technology to adjust it. It's probably one of the closest things to an actual toothpick that existed. Yes. Or could be made at the time. You wouldn't take someone who made telegraph poles. Right. And they'd get them to make toothpicks

because that's a bigger change, isn't it? You're right. And they were often missing teeth back then. So maybe the gaps were a lot bigger. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was reading a book which was called The Toothpick by a guy called Henry Petroski.

Did you guys come across this? It's one of those great authors who just picks one item. Cool. Yeah. And he just tells the whole history of the object. So obviously Charles Worcester invented the sort of very cheap disposable toothpicks. But toothpicks have been there throughout history.

Royals have used them. But everyone sort of had a really spectacular toothpick that they could use over and over again. Wow. They would often wear it in a box around their neck on a chain. Come on. Yeah. You would carry your toothpick.

In this book, he claims that there is definitely evidence that during the Renaissance that used to be done. Like people used to carry their knives around this stuff. Did people just have a load of cutlery attached to their body all the time? Spoon on the nose. Yeah. There's an anonymous painting that was done

called Queen Elizabeth as an Old Woman, which shows her wearing multiple chains around her neck. And one of them which would have had her toothpick in. And we know that she had toothpicks because in 1570 there's an account of her having received a gift of six gold toothpicks. As well as, and this seems to have disappeared from sort of day use, tooth cloths.

Never heard of that. A little cloth for your teeth. That's lovely. I guess instead of a brush, did you just like hang your teeth? Yeah. That's really weird. Maybe, yes.

That's so cool. You could just keep one toothpick in there. Problem solved. I think that's a really good idea because at the moment I replaced the toothpick back into my huge bowl of toothpicks that I keep in every room. And then you don't know which one you last used. It's not very hygienic at all.

Are you kidding? No. You put it back in the, I don't think that's the point of the toothpick holder. Other people find that weird but it seems so wasteful to just use it once. Absolutely. So there's a toothpick mystery that I think has been

in the back of everyone's mind since the day you first saw one of these toothpicks. Okay. You know the toothpicks which are called Japanese toothpicks and they have little grooves at one end. Oh yeah. Yeah. Those are the fancy ones in my mind.

They're the fancy ones. Exactly. Usually you see them in maybe a nicer restaurant. And why do they have those grooves? So they don't roll as easily off the table? Grip. Increase your grip. Avoid stabbing yourself in the gum.

Grip. Very good answer. Rolling. Don't know if, because they're not that, the grooves aren't going that way so I don't know if that would help. Okay. What they're for is they are for snapping the end off to indicate that the toothpick has been used.

Which you would not need to do if you were me. But a lot of people like to say this has been done. Don't use it. And also someone pointed out, and I don't know if this was in mind when they were designed, but you can then use the end you've snapped off as a stand. So another problem I always have with toothpicks is that the end is lying on a table or a chair or sofa.

And that gets dirty, right? Whereas if you... It sounds like it does in your head. If you prop it up with its other end that you've snapped off. Isn't that so clever? Yeah. I know. It's really clever here.

People think that you shouldn't use toothpicks though, right? A lot of dentists say you shouldn't really use them. What? Because they can pierce your gums and give bacteria a chance to get in because they're quite spiky, especially the wooden ones. It sounds like you're using them wrong. Well the American Dental Association suggests not to use

them. They say you should use... There are certain better like softer toothpicks that you can use rather than those wooden ones. Writer Sherwood Anderson died because he swallowed a toothpick. Okay, that is using it wrong. There's one thing to just poke it into your gum, but to eat

the entire thing. Well in fairness to him, it was from a martini, so... Okay. So the olive, presumably, he was going for that. He must have really been thirsty. He must have been rushing to the bar. Can't wait to get that first drink. I'm just going to drink the whole thing in one.

And there was a study in the New England Journal of Medicine about someone who swallowed a toothpick and nearly died. It had been hidden in a sandwich by which I don't think someone had actually hidden it. I think maybe it was holding the sandwich together and hadn't noticed it. But the problem is because it was made of wood, all of these scans, you couldn't see it.

And even when they gave him a colonoscopy, they couldn't see it because it's so small. And even when they did surgery, it was really hard to see because the hole was so, so tiny. And it was only eventually when they were doing the surgery, they kind of found the toothpick lodged in his artery and they realized that that was the problem. Oh my God.

His artery. This is a huge, this is a testinal artery. Would that come out if it had made it to his stomach? Would that have come out in, would it have been broken down? It's not guaranteed to. So this year, there was a report of a man in Japan, he'd swallowed a toothpick and he had months of pain in his back and leg and it had been stuck in his,

basically in his rectum. Wow. And it was a seven centimeter long toothpick. He'd swallowed by mistake. But this, so this does happen. Apparently in the 1980s, in America alone, 8,000 people a year were being injured by toothpicks. But not swallowing, right?

Not swallowing. By swallowing? Yeah. A lot of swallowing. Would they just lie and go to the table and it landed on them? Yeah. Presumably injuries could be from accidentally poking your throat too hard or like, what are you, what are you

putting your throat for? It's going in your mouth. You might make the mistake. You might miss your mouth. You might miss your mouth. It's quite hard even to get to the back molars to be honest. A lot of people use it. I mean, I think Q-tips were invented because the guy who

invented Q-tips saw his wife using a toothpick on her son or daughter's ears to pick out. So like, you know, people do use it for weird things. I think in fairness, they were putting a bit of cloth on me under the toothpick. It wasn't just shoving in the spiky. Oh, okay. Because I have done that with a toothpick.

Wow. Yeah. This is not my children on me. Right. Have you really? Yeah. Inside your ear? Yeah.

Don't do that. I think I've got to say the personal hygiene of both of you. Thank you, James. You wish it was more than two meters now, don't you? But there are lots of, this is a huge problem. There's a dentist who was interviewed by an outlet called Shore News. He was called Jamie Bell.

He said, more people choke on toothpicks than on food, which I find extraordinary. Yeah, I saw that, but I can't be true, can it? Absolutely not. I mean, okay, but there was an analysis of toothpicks swallowing cases which had made it to medical journals, because obviously most toothpick incidents probably don't make it to a medical journal.

But of the ones which make it to medical journals, 10% are fatal of toothpicks swallowing incidents, which is a lot. Scary. And of all of the cases which have made it to the journals, half the patients didn't know that they'd swallowed a toothpick. So it seems like it's easier to do. So Anna, check yourself.

Oh my God. But I think it's, with what we were saying before, I've been to a few restaurants where to hold a big burger together, a toothpick goes in and it goes in a bit too far, and you find yourself hitting on a toothpick as you're biting into the burger. That's where the, yeah. They've obviously been fashionable throughout history

in terms of having them sticking out of your mouth. Very cool. It is cool. It was very cool. It's dangerous, isn't it? Yeah. You know you're a bad boy, basically. Is that why cowboys are doing it?

It's to signify. They don't value their own life. So 1870s, it was extremely cool for people to be chewing on toothpicks. Apparently every third woman in a particular area of Boston had one sticking out of her mouth at any one time. Wow. Well, this was Charles Foster's boom, right? Yes.

This was as a result. This was the moment, 1870s, when it erupted. Wow. But even before that, people obviously went around doing it. It was really a 16th century book of kind of table manners. And it advised, do not go around with a toothpick in your mouth like a bird going to build his nest, or stick it behind your ear like a barber does his comb.

Which obviously implies people are doing that. Yeah. Have you guys heard of Stan Monroe? No. Stan Monroe, 10 years ago, his wife had a few operations. But while she was having her operations, Stan Monroe needed to take his mind off things and so started to build stuff out of toothpicks.

And he has built the most buildings out of toothpicks of anyone in the world. He says the quickest one he had to do was the Washington Monument. Even though it's really big. One toothpick. Yeah. It's more than one toothpick. The Eiffel Tower is four, just going up to the same point.

Very, very intricate. He uses actual blueprints to make them. Wow. They're all built one to 164 scale, every single one. Wow. And what's really cool is that he read that the workers on the Empire State Building, when they did the real Empire State Building,

they used to carve their wives' names into the buildings. And so in all of his toothpick buildings, he has his wife's name somewhere in them. How sweet. Very nice. Really? Well, it carved into a toothpick. I guess possibly into a few toothpicks.

Because otherwise, that would be quite small. But yeah. Well, there is this guy called Willard Wigan, who we've actually mentioned once before ages ago, who does tiny sculptures. And one of the things he does is he sculpts into individual toothpicks. And he'll sculpt famous people. So he did back in the year 2000.

He did the Beckham. So David Beckham is one toothpick. Victoria Beckham is the other. Their kid was the other. I mean, it's tiny. And it took him a week, I think. Willard Wigan is he the man behind the impossible micro world in Bath? Yes, he is.

Exactly. They had a touring exhibition. It was the most incredible thing I've ever seen. It was so good. Did you have something through microscopes and stuff? Yes, you do. You do. Do you see the Beckhams?

Sorry. I didn't see the Beckhams. I don't know if they were in that exhibition. But I remember he did a horse, a statue of a horse dancing. And the statue itself was balanced on the head of an ant, which was in the display case. Wow. He's unbelievable.

I wrote to him once, but he never wrote back. He might have done, but his letter was so small. Just a tiny toothpick through your letterbox. OK, it's time for our final fact of the show. And that is Andy. My fact is that there is a blue plaque in London, which has its own blue plaque. Pretty cool.

Yeah, great. Why does it? Why? Well, the blue plaque, plaque one, as I'm going to call it from now on, is to Isaac Newton. And it was his home when he was the president of the Royal Society. It's in German Street, which is quite near Piccadilly in London. And the building was rebuilt.

And it was finished in 1915. And the plaque was reattached. But it then had a supplementary plaque attached, saying this plaque was, you know, reattached. It's not round. The bonus plaque. Plaque two is rectangular. OK, does that stop it being a plaque?

No. I've got this from someone I know, Will Noble, who had seen it in the works of Mark Mason, who we know. He is a brilliant fact collector and has been on fish. Yeah, yeah. Now, my understanding of blue plaques, the English heritage blue plaques, is that to earn a blue plaque,

you need to have made a significant and positive contribution to society. And I would be interested to know what contribution that plaque made to society to earn. You know, can I get a plaque? I mean, how easy can it be? I think maybe that was before the rules were tightened up. So English heritage took over in about the 1980s.

They took over from the London County Council. And the London County Council took over from maybe the Royal Society of Arts, the first people to do it with the Royal Society of Arts. It's been through about four bodies have had the responsibility of putting up blue plaques. And English heritage are now just in London, the ones they do.

And they are, if you like the original, maybe the best, they're certainly the most stringent in their requirements. Because there are dozens and dozens of places. It's really stringent, isn't it? The first thing you need to do is die. And then you need to have been dead for 20 years. Yeah, so get in there early. And then someone has to nominate you.

But you're only allowed to nominate one person a year, if you're a member of the public. So you can't just send loads and loads of them. What about this person? What about this person? What about this person? And then it goes to a panel of 12 people, including a few historians like Rosemary Hill

and David Olasoga and people like that. And then they decide, and then you have another problem because you have to find the owner of the building. And sometimes they don't reply to your emails or they don't want, you know, they don't want. They write back, but tiny. You can put up a tiny plaque of the size of a button. But yeah, some people don't want them on their house, do they?

I mean, surely out of sheer selfishness, I guess it would increase the value of the building. Well, there was an interview with Howard Spencer, who's in charge of English Heritage, and he said that it does increase the value of your house for sure, but not by enough. He said you'd be better off modernizing a bathroom than trying to get a blue black.

But in the same article I read, there was an interview with Caroline Mitwok, who is a researcher who lives on Wimpoll Street, which is where Frederick Treves, who was a surgeon of the Elephant Man, lived. She says it can be quite annoying because you get tourists kind of stood outside gawping at the front of your house,

and when you're trying to come in with your bags of shoppers, you don't want to go around them. Yeah, there are frustrations. And also, they're so strict about the rules. And there was a complaint a few years ago. Someone had wanted a plaque to Elizabeth Taylor. And they had written back saying, it's not yet 20 years since she died

and we are not, as a result, going to consider her. And the guy who had made the suggestion had kind of promised to Elizabeth Taylor that he would try and get her a plaque. And he said, it's so annoying, they should just weigh the rule because in 20 years, all the fans who would have paid attention will themselves be dead and no one will pay any interest.

And I would have thought that's kind of the point of why the 20-year rule exists. He's identified the reason for the rule. He's actually going, yes, thank you for confirming we've made the right choice. Although there was one person called Philip Jones, who was a trumpet player who died in 2000. And people think that he probably will have

a blue plaque in the end. But the problem was they had to wait 20 years and that would mean that his wife, who's still living, would probably never get to see it. So, you know, you can see in a way that it would be nicer for some people to get it a bit earlier. Yeah, it would be nice, but I'm afraid it's not the point

of a blue plaque to make everyone's Tom, Dick and Harry's wives happy. It's meant to be someone who's making a lasting contribution to the world. And if everyone's forgotten you after 20 years, then I'm afraid you don't deserve one. Okay, well, if you want one, you can just buy one yourself. That's not really better. I mean, there's nothing to stop you from just buying one

on your own house. I did find a blue plaque that went to someone who had only died 12 years before receiving it. Who? Is this in the olden days? No, this is in modern days. I say someone, it's an animal. Dolly the sheep.

Oh, but it's sheep years. It's actually 60 years. Did they only make the one plaque for Dolly? Idiots. They did the Society of Biology in Edinburgh at the Roslyn Institute. Oh, okay. There can't be many quadrupeds

who have plaques. I think the only other one that I could find was the dog who was the dog of the HMV painting his master's voice dog. Oh, Nippa's is a car. Nippa's got a plaque somewhere. Oh, these are all proper.

This is an English heritage. I think there are probably quite a lot of other I know humans are bipeds as well. The feathered bipeds plaques, which are pigeons who were like during the World War II, who kind of gave messages and stuff from World War I. That's really cool.

But not English heritage or English heritage? Not sure. There's even fictional characters that get given blue plaques. So I was reading that one person who's real, Charles Dickens, has so many, he's got like 44 plaques around the UK, so many places he went to and wrote a book there

and directed across the UK, he has them. But even his characters have some plaques. So Market Square and Dover is where David Copperfield apparently rested on a doorstep and ate a loaf. That has a plaque. I have to say, I think that's insane.

So there is a guy called Mike... Oh, well, Mike Reed, the DJ. He is the chairman of the British plaque trust. And a few years ago, he made a sizzling intervention in the debate. He said there are way too many plaques. And then from David Copperfield saying this is madness. Although there are plaques where, you know,

there's a hotel where JRR Tolkien stayed for a couple of nights. He had a weekend break. But again, like Hannah says, these aren't the official English heritage ones, is that right? That's correct. Yeah, none of them are. So those Dickens ones, like Dickens does not have 44 English heritage plaques.

So basically, I don't really count plaques as plaques unless they're English heritage. They're not blue plaques. They can be blue. They can't be the colour blue, but that's obviously completely different to it. I mean, blue plaques can be brown, can't they? Yes, the original blue plaques are brown.

Yes. Very confusing. Howard Spencer said that we have no copyright on the colour of plaques. That's fair. We just asked people, try to make your style of plaque a bit different than ours. Wow. And some people do, but some people really don't. Some people don't. Why would you? If you're going to put your own plaque on your front door,

you're going to make it look as much like those as possible. The way to tell, by the way, if you are a blue plaque spotter and you really are like Anna and you think only the English heritage ones are the true plaques, then look for the screws because official blue plaques do not have screws.

They're kind of flush onto the stonework and the fake ones tend to be screwed on. Good to know. That is a really good tip. Did you guys do about Frank and Sue Ashworth, the blue plaque team? Oh, the makers, yeah. The makers of the only plaques. So they've been doing English heritage as blue plaque

since 1984 when they took over from the previous guy who died, but they got the recipe that he'd been using for a specific recipe. How many years did they have to wait until they were given the recipe? And, yeah, so it was the widow of the previous person who gave them the recipe and they're so great. They live in Cornwall.

They're hoping to hand down the business to their son Justin. There's a great video. I think it's on the English heritage site of Sue, the mother, and her son Justin who I guess they've been training up. And it's just a great family bickering session. So they're obviously doing a documentary about plaque making. He's making this plaque,

like doing the engravings. She's giving the interview to the camera, saying, I'm very aware of how important it is not to interrupt while people are concentrating, and I try really hard not to interrupt Justin and Frank. And then, literally, Justin starts talking about what a perfectionist he is, and she says the entire time interrupting him, saying,

I'm so sorry. You're doing it a bit. Oh, I just think the lettering is a bit thick. Sorry, sorry. It is a bit thick there. Tear it down, isn't it, Justin? It's so sweet. Oh, they're really sweet. They're lovely. Also, the other person who fits into this scheme,

apart from the Ashworth family, is a man called Trevor Ramsey from Sunderland. Did you find out about him? No. He is the man who fits all the blue plaques. And he's done 200 of them in the last 16 years. Cool. Yeah, and he is the one who creates the hole in the wall, so it fits perfectly flush.

And yeah, as James says, it can't be screwed on. It has to be a perfectly sized hole in the wall. And he hangs the curtains as well. I always wondered who did the curtains. I love the curtains. I didn't know that, so there's a big reveal moment. Oh, yeah, always. There's always a reveal. You know those curtains where I now declare this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just never knew who made the curtains. No, I think not very many people do. I think you're not going to get laughed out of a pub if you say, I'm so embarrassed about this, but I don't even know who makes the curtains. Another hack question in tonight's pub quiz. Everyone gets it.

The first ever plaque doesn't exist anymore. The first plaque put up in London. And it was to Lord Byron. And the house was demolished. It's now the central London, John Lewis. And we don't even know which house it was, because I think there's no clear evidence as to which house Byron actually lived in.

It was very early in his life. But it was destroyed in a bomb in the wall, and then another one was put up. I wonder if he'd be happy that it's now selling overpriced crockery. Yeah. Okay, someone's not tried the everyday range. Truly the spirit of Byron lives on.

Okay, that's it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on our Twitter accounts. At Shriverland, Andy. At Andrew Hunter M. James. At James Harkin. And Anna.

You can email podcast.qo.com. Yep, or you can get us on our group account, which is at no such thing, or go to our website. No such thing as a fish.com. All of our previous episodes are up there, as well as links to all of the places that we are going to be going to on our upcoming UK tour. Do check it out. Please come see us live.

It's going to be awesome. But otherwise, we'll see you again next week with another episode. Goodbye. Bye.