No Such Thing As A Fish - 510: No Such Thing As Pumpkin Spice Moss

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

In a Christmas special, live from the Soho Theatre, Dan, James, Anna and Andy discuss pumpkins, pancakes, sherry and gravy. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes. Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

Do you know what that woulda brought back to me? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, My name is Dan Schreiber. I'm sitting here with Anna Toshinsky. Andrew, I'm Tumari, and James Harkin. And once again, we have gathered around with our four favorite Christmas facts for our Christmas special. And in no particular order, here we go, starting with fact number one, and that is Anna. My fact this week is that when concocting its pumpkin spice latte flavor, Starbucks tried various ratios of pumpkin to spice, before eventually settling on 100% spice, not percent pumpkin. LAUGHTER

Was there a big pumpkin tax that they were trying to avoid that? So... Come on, James, you're an apolitical podcast. I think I've just saw a sign for pumpkin spice last any other day and realised I've got no clue what it is. And I still haven't had one, by the way. I think we established that none of us have ever tried it. No, no, I've had one. I've had one.

You've had one. Yes, anyone else in the room never had a pumpkin spice any day. Oh! Wait, has anyone ever had one. Is anyone else in the room never had a pumpkin spice? Anything. Oh. Wait, has anyone ever had one? Yeah. Yeah. Not many people. OK, well, it's not a sensation that it claims.

Well, that's two, 50 minutes on how popular it is. Yeah. So something that not many people have had, I'm shocked that you're not asking me for the experience, for the, for where did I have it, how was it? I wanted to be a surprise. Well, there's no story anyway, so yeah, let's move on. So Starbucks, they're a coffee selling company and they were looking for a new kind of holiday

PR thing in about 2003, holiday flavor, and they set up a sort of testing room, a, I think they called it a lab, a coffee lab. They called it a liquid lab. A liquid lab, yes. And they sampled lots of different drinks. They had a hundred ideas for new autumn drinks, fall drinks. And... You know, people in America can't listen to their shows.

Well, a lot of them do. And if you're listening in America, just sit to their shows. A lot of them do. And if you're listening in America, just sit back and feel right at home. Well, that's exactly because we're talking about the file. And they said they realized at the time that there was, and I quote, nothing around pumpkin in the market. And so they thought, let's come up with a pumpkin spice, as in the spice in pumpkin pie,

which is obviously a Thanksgiving thing in America. And so they thought, okay, let's create a pumpkin flavor with the spices that come with pumpkin pie, and they just tested a high pumpkin low spice option, high spice low pumpkin option, and then they settled on zero pumpkin, because pumpkin does not taste a thing. And what it is, it's like what cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves,

all those kind of crispness. Ginger, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like those are the spices that go with pumpkin. But if they did massively popularize it, I bet you wouldn't have heard of pumpkin spice in 2002. Oh, it was huge, wasn't it? Like Starbucks, particularly. Those fans is a secret society of pumpkin spice lovers.

It's the PSL. What is this? How secret? I like what infiltration work have you done? I like what I'm doing. I like it when you'd be able to tell. If there was one in this room, I reckon we'd be able to smell it. Put it that way.

Yeah. But people really went into it. So the secret society, you basically, when you joined it, they gave you a sort of, you know, the cardboard slip that comes over a coffee. It was a sort of woolly version of it, and it was orange. And so you got that as part of the society. There was a Twitter account that had 120,000 followers.

That was 2015, but I checked it today, and they've now gone down to 85,000 followers. And the tweets have gone private. So something... It's the tweets weren't even private. Something of the secret society. It had public tweets, right? I don't know what's happening, but something's gone on.

I remember some pretty niche societies, but that is very niche. Well, 2015 was a huge year for pumpkin spice flavour, because we should say that was the year that they did at hand pumpkin due to a public outcry. So there is pumpkin in it now, because there were various people who spotted that there was no pumpkin in it before. I believe there was a blogger called Food Babe,

who she wrote an article about all the ingredients in Starbucks stuff, and it was meant to be an article about if the fact that they were unethical or unhealthy and stuff, but she added on the end, and also there's no pumpkin in pumpkin spice lattes, and they hit on that and added pumpkin. So it doesn't have to be pumpkin.

Ignore the others. It has spread to everything now, mostly in America, but this is quite a bit over here as well. There are pumpkin spice, hummus, pumpkin spice salad, pumpkin spice, butter, pumpkin spice, peanut butter. Peanut butter already has a flavour. Peanut. Pumpkin spice, water, wallpaper, toilet spray.

Wool paper. I'm afraid there are... There's a thing called, dude wipes, which are male-pitched wet wipes. I'm really sorry to announce that. They're called, dumpkin spice. OK. There's pumpkin spice, some spam, as well, that you can get.

And they sort of announced it as a joke. Yeah, spam announced it as a joke and it was not real. And then the outcry suddenly was there going, but we wanted to be real. And so they put it out as a limited series because they thought, OK, no one's really going to buy it. And everyone bought it. And for two years, they had this huge selling pumpkin spice

spam, which no one really likes, but they just wanted it. You know, and then you can get pumpkin spice moss? No! Yeah. Wait, those of you who haven't been here before Andy has very much entered his moss. Yeah, I like moss. Yeah.

What are those secret societies you were talking about earlier? It's not officially that, but in Jamaica, you can buy Irish moss, which is an aphrodisiac, and it comes spiced with vanilla cinnamon and nutmeg, so it's aphrodisiac, and it comes spiced with vanilla, cinnamon, and nutmeg. So it's all intense perps, it's pumpkin spiced. I believe, isn't that, what kind of moss is it called again? OK, it's not real moss. It's not technically moss, is it?

So, yeah. Isn't that... It's algae, yes. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, we... Just the last news letter was quite big on that kind of stuff. Yeah. I was reading some psychology about why pumpkin spice is so popular. Yeah.

As we've established it isn't, but let's go with it is. Apparently, scarcity is one of the main reasons that you can only get it in the fall. Oh, can I do that right? I know, yeah. Yeah, but I need to question your pronunciation of scarcity. LAUGHTER Apparently, because you can only get it in the art of the winter,

it makes people desire it more. Also, a lot of the ingredients are afridiziacs, supposedly. What? Yeah. All these spices. Yes, so cinnamon is known to relax muscles and increase sexual desire. It's been used in Indian traditional medicine

for a long time for that. Nutmeg, there's been one study on rats that found that if you give it to rats... What are you studying? If you give them not picky, are you kidding me? LAUGHTER I'll tell you what, I was chasing the round that maze for a long time.

LAUGHTER Apparently, if you give a rat nomeg, they have increased number of mounting episodes. One time. Apparently, if you give a rat no meg, they have increased number of mounting episodes. Mounting episodes. Wow. And no meg used to be so popular that people would carry it and round with them. And they would carry their own, like, not meg graters.

This was in the Victorian times. And Charles Sackfield, the sixth Earl of Darset, used to just eat spoonfuls of nutmeg, which you shouldn't do because it is poisonous if you have too much bit. But he did it and he had so much one evening that he was imprisoned after running up and down all night, almost naked through the street in a nutmeg frenzy. Wow. So pumpkin spice, I have a few issues with it. And the things that's been included in mostly dog-based things.

So it's in dog brew, which is a kind of doggy beer, non-alcoholic dog beer, because I guess you shouldn't give dogs alcohol. Doggy doughnuts, dog biscuits, they all come in pumpkin spice flavour. And this just reminded me of the fact that there's sort of human food that has dog versions now. If you think, dog ice cream. If you're not seeing dog ice cream, it's everywhere. So in Aldi, you get dog ice cream for dogs, that you feed dogs. It's literally everywhere. There's a cool dog vegan ice cream that costs £120 for a tub of it. To be fair, a five-liter tub. Out is changed.

LAUGHTER But is it non-derri because dogs don't have dairy, right? This one is non-derri because it's vegan and that's one of the things they say is dogs are lactose intolerant. Therefore, we've made our dog ice cream dairy free. Well, hang on, if they're not allowed dairy in this dairy free ice cream for dogs, what's a papachino? Because I saw some in order of papachino in front of me

in a coffee shop. This is not doggy, ma'am. OK, for a dog. Yeah, yeah, for a dog. Right, so you do know of this phenomenon. And a papachino sounds like it's a doggy. I sort of thought that was a horrific isolated outbreak of that kind of thing.

Well, did the guy be high or the person behind the counter go, what the fuck are you talking about? Or did they give them something? Because they might have isolated it. Well, they might have missed her cappuccino and just give them a cappuccino. Because I frequently say, I can have a cappuccino and they say, cappuccino and I say, no, cappuccino.

And then, well, that happens to be on a few times a year. Well, your accent is so hard to understand, isn't it, Andy? Caught it. Caught it. The person who founded Cool Dog, the company that comes up with these ridiculous ice creams, is called Don Thor, which is quite nice for an ice cream and venting guy.

But still, I hate him. Pumpkin Spice is, so it began to be a global phenomenon when Starbucks started doing it. But it is old, isn't it? I mean, it appears in America's first ever cookbook. There was a lady who was called Amelia Simmons. And she wrote this book in 1796. And it has this recipe in it.

And it was a pretty amazing cookbook, because on it, it says, bi-amilia Simmons. But then underneath, it says, American orphan. And there was this whole thing about being an orphan in it and needing to know how to cook for when you have to move, even as an adult, into new places, and be the person who is now going to provide food for a new family that you're living for.

So it's really odd, the first ever American cookbook was basically designed for women and orphans as the main thrush. Yeah. It was the main thrush. Pain, main thrush. That was one of the recipes, wasn't it? What's the main thrush. The main thrush. That was one of the recipes, wasn't it? What's the main thrush?

We're going to have to move on in seconds. Can I tell you about a quick food promotion? Oh, yeah. It's kind of how you make stuff popular. OK, I really like this one. This is again 2003. This is the year that Pumpkin Spice Latte was launched. There's a seafood chain.

They're in the States as well. They're called Red Lobster. And they had about 700 restaurants at this time. And they thought, we need to get more punters in. So they launched a promotion, which was called Endless Crab. And you could order as much crab, snow crab, there's a kind of crab, as you want, for $23. And they assumed, most people have one or two plates

of this crab and pointed there, assume wrong. Because as soon as someone ordered three plates of crab, the restaurant was making a loss. And the problem is people were turning up and ordering the endless crab, basically, as they had, as it was perfectly their right to do. But the problem is it's very fiddly to eat crab. It's those crabs with really long legs, though, is they?

So it's just very cumbersome process to eat. So they're turning up. You were not bleeding all over the dish, because you, yeah, you cut your fingers. I've been to one of these restaurants where you eat lobster and crab, but I remember there's a dish full of blood in the end. Red lobster was just called lobster. But basically, people were coming in,

filling up the entire restaurant, ordering crab. They're not leaving for four hours, because it takes so long to eat. So no punters were getting in toward any non-crab dishes. I think they're lost half a billion dollars, their parent company. Well, how? I know. Billion. Yes, this year, they introduced ultimate endless shrimp, and they had almost exactly the same problem all over again. Oh, my God.

So let's say I'm a restaurant in Chicago, which had an all-you-can-eat thing. A woman sat down at a table with a bunch of friends who were like six of them, and she ordered the all-you-can-eat pancakes, and the other said, no, we'll just have some water, please. I need to think, a woman sat down at a table with a bunch of friends who were like six of them. And she ordered the all-you-can-eat pancakes, and the other said, no, we'll just have some water, please. Are they all of her pancakes? She just can't get more pancakes than people just can't eat in them.

And the police were called eventually. What? The police were called. Because they refused to leave. And they were like, well, we're going to have to call the police. They were like, we're well-mort-pig-cakes. Oh, my God. I read one that this just happened recently. There's a new McDonald's burger, which is the McCrispy.

And in Cornwall, they were forced to take down a poster because they'd accidentally put it up right opposite of Crematorium. And so, oh, gosh, OK. Just a bit. Dear. Hey, Greece, can make you hungry? It's in the smarmy.

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Just go to canvaca.me slash fish and you will get a free 45 day extended trial. Do it now. Okay, on with the show. On with the show. Oh, with the show. MUSIC It is time for fact number two, and that is Andy. My fact is that when making Sherry, it is important that you leave space for two fists inside your bunghole.

LAUGHTER So, the fortify... Making Sherry what? Making a hobby. LAUGHTER LAUGHTER No. Guys, let's be serious for a bit. Let's just have a nice...

Cherry grows in... ...grows in. Cherry grows... ...grows up trees, isn't it? All sort of, like, wine bushes, vines, if you like. Are you okay, I'm the... Yeah, I'm fine. I feel weirdly it's fine, if you like. Are you okay, I'm the... Yeah, I'm fine. I feel weirdly calm in the...

I feel like I'm in the eye of the storm, and everything's happening around me, but I'm kind of... All right. I mean, no, I'm not all right, so... Sherry. Can you tell us... Sherry is a... What your bum hole, Sherry?

Sorry. Like... Sherry is a drink. It grows in Spain. And it's made in Spain. In a place genuinely called the Sherry is a drink, it grows in Spain. It's made in Spain. In a place genuinely called the Sherry Triangle. Pretty cool. Very cool. It's sort of region where the soil is amazing, and it has very chalky soil, and it's absolutely perfect for growing the grapes that make Sherry.

And it is matured in casks. So you take the grapes, you press them, you leave the pressings, then it must, they ferment, and then they go into barrels. And they are age for ages in the barrels, and that's where the flavors mature. And so they go into these, they're called butts. They're cherry butts, which are 500 liters is one butt.

And obviously, you need access to the butt, so you need a bun hole. And the, you know, you drill a hole, you put the bung, you put the bung in, the bunghole, and then you, and the point, the point is that I am fine. Some, I'm fine. I'm fine.

Some sherrys, dry sherrys, they have this layer that grows on the top, it's called a floor. And it's a layer of different kinds of yeast, and it really contributes to the flavour. Right. And so you want to let the floor grow. You need to leave space on top of the wine. So traditionally, you leave two spaces.

Your fists were to space. Yeah, yeah. On the inside of the barrel. Yeah, yeah. Below the bunghole. And that's it. That's all it is. The space is to see. So it's enough it's to a fisting. That's all the material I've got. So... Do you know what an escuffina is? So it's not if it's do a fisting. That's all the material I've got.

So... Do you know what an escuffina is? A escuffina. Yeah, I look into it as a glossary. It's the tool that they use. It says semi-circular tool used to remove splinters on the inside of the butt caused by drilling the bungles. So that is the tool.

That's very cool. There's so much cool terminology. They have the special tools designed to extract a sample from the middle of the barrel, which is where you want to be tasting it. And they have this amazing stacking system as well. It's like a pyramid. The new barrels go on top.

And then gradually, you transfer the sherry down bit by bit. But that means that the sherry is always mingling with newer and older stuff. And there are some of these systems, they're called Soleras. Some of them are more than a hundred years old. You know, there will be fractions of tiny droplets, which are more than a hundred years old with that barrel system, I think. Well, that is cool.

Wow. And the weird thing about the Sherry system that I didn't know is, well, let me see if you know. So if I'm in a restaurant, I order a sherry. And they say, um... No, sorry, Madam, you're under 80 years old. You can't do that. That's not normal. Making a comeback, actually. But you say, oh, what vintage is that?

What year is that sherry from? What's wrong with what I've just said? Oh, sailing in. Vintage. From no year. From no year. Exactly. As I write, talk to me, Dan. It's a time-traveling barrel. LAUGHTER Stop talking to me.

No, because it's been going through this pyramid system. Exactly. So it's from one year. It's from a range of... It's all mixed up. I didn't realise this at all. So it's from lots of different years, each sherry. And the salarous system is like the mixing up of different ventures, and apparently, the older wine matures the younger wine, and the younger wine keeps the older wine fresh and vigorous.

Okay. So once you've got your sherry, you put it in a barrel. Yeah. You can improve it by sending it around the world. And this is something that, again, is making a comeback. So quite recently, there has been a ship called the Juan Sebastián del Elcano where they've sent a barrel around the world. And when it comes back, it's going to be tastier, apparently.

It's all the sloshing around. It's known as Mariedos Sheri, which is seasick. Sheri. And apparently, because it sloshes around all that time, it tastes way better. Isn't it amazing that that's the theory, but we don't know. So they just go in like everyone reports that this makes it better. It must be the swaying of the boat as you go along. Yeah, absolutely.

And back in the day, they used to do this all the time. And whenever anyone would go on the round the world, they would take some sherry with them. And you would put it on the boat, and when it came back, it'd be worth five times more than when you left it. Yeah. So you could sell it for five times more. So as long as you put it on the boat and when it came back, it'd be worth five times more than when you left it. Yeah. So you could sell it for five times more.

So as long as you put enough on there, it was worth it to sail it all the way around the world to make that money. That's very nice. Could you just employ an intern to knock it over and pick it up? LAUGHTER Most of times. It's not quite as romantic, is it?

Yeah. Like, this has been interned. Oh, it's going to know the difference. But Magellan, when he went around the world, he brought way more sherry than he did actual armory to protect the people on his boats. 20% of the funds that was spent on the things brought onto the boat were for exclusively sherry.

And so he had... Did he say he wasn't going to be declaring war on anyone? No, but it did get him into a situation where he, on the day that he died, he did have to bring in a group of people on the island in order to make up the missing armory, basically, and then he died in the subsequent attack. So they say, Sherry very slightly was involved in his demise as a result. But he brought on 203 butts barrels of Sherry, which is equivalent of 243,000 liters. That's what they had for these trips. Wow, that's amazing.

Another person who sailed with a lot of Sherry was San Francisco Drake. So after he attacked Cadiz, known as the Singing of the King of Spain's Beard, you might know about it. It's like around the time of the Spanish Armada and stuff. He came back with a load of Sherry barrels. And in fact, he came back with 2,900 casks of and stuff. He came back with a load of Sherry barrels. And in fact, he came back with 2,900 casts of the stuff. And that began something called the Sherry craze in Britain,

because they suddenly had all the Sherry, all the rich people in the country could drink it. They'd never had it before. And it became really, really popular. And the really interesting thing about that is after a little while, had a lot of empty Sherry barrels, and because they drank it all. So what did they do with that?

They started putting alcohol in there in Scotland. It gave it more flavor and we invented whiskey. So whiskey came from Sherry. Hooray! Yeah! But no, and that's how you make whiskey. You need to share it better. But there's a huge problem, which is that Sherry

became really unpopular. You know, it's sort of the sales absolutely created in the 80s. Right. As a result, they were making a fifth of the Sherry they used to. And it's not shipped in barrels anymore. So what do you do for the whiskey? You can't make whiskey anymore if you don't have the Sherry because it's not being made.

And even if it is made, it's not in the barrels. So now, Sherry makes a filling barrels with Sherry just to flavor the barrel. No. What, and then just tipping it into the ocean? Pretty much. Like I caught space in my house. So have you got space for a million liters of cherry?

You know what? I find room. But some cherry makers make a million liters of cherry to season whiskey cusses. No. Yeah. Wow. I'm sure they find a use for the Sherry cuss,

but that's why they're doing it. It's for the whiskey thing, for the whiskey tray. Because there are a billion litres of Scot, exported from Scotland every year. It's a massive trade. So, yeah. Wow. I like, so Sherry's a fortified wine, basically. And I like the fact that you make fortified wine

by adding wine to wine. LAUGHTER It's just double wine. That's just like you and a nighttower, you know? LAUGHTER I'm fortifying the wine, gradually. LAUGHTER It's my stomach.

Um, I guess, because, no, I've always been confused about how you make all these things that are so related to the grape. But basically, you get the wine from this region of Spain and you make it in a certain way, they make it, and then you add brandy to it, and all brandy is distilled wine. I.e. wine, where they've removed as much of the liquid as possible, and left the distilled alcohol. And so you just chuck that in.

So, sure, it's just wine plus wine. And it's good, because wine, I didn't realize, how's a maximum possible strength. Really? I'd never questioned why wine hovers around the 13, 14% can never quite crack above into 15, 16. Why not? Just for the evening, turning around every single bottle

and a huge supermarket aisle, there will be one. There will be one, 15. Because 14 is a horrifically strong wine, to me. Absolutely. And I like a nice, you know, 10 or 11. You don't like something a bit. You're awarded down. Yeah.

Please, you're drinking the 0.5% biz. But yeah, it actually can't survive if the alcohol concentration gets too high. So you have wine is made by having yeast convert the sugar, so it's made by fermentation, where yeast converts the sugars. But yeast dies in a certain concentration of alcohol. So, awfully, it's killed by the thing it creates. It creates ethanol, and then it's killed by it if it gets above 16%.

And so that's why we need things like sherry and brandy, because they are able to exist above the 16% hurdle. OK. I was reading the Australian dictionary of slang about the word Bung, because this was about Bungholes. And it says, Bung is a term which may refer to two very separate things. It may be the hole in the barrel where beer is poured from,

or it may also be an anus. So I'm going to give you some Bung phrases, and you have to decide whether the Bung in the phrase refers to the barrel of the anus. Right, okay. Okay, so Bung Juice. This is Bung Juice's slang word where the Bung part refers to an anus or a barrel.

Now, I think I've got a bit of inside knowledge here because I think it's the barrel, because I think there is a thing called Bunghole Sniffing, which is where you're testing the... LAUGHTER You're testing the whiskey by just giving the barrel a quick sniff, and it's permeated through it. So I'm going to say barrel.

Yeah, how we all in agreement. I'm going to go with Andy, the expert on Bungholes, yeah. No, you're right. Bung juice just means beer. It's another way to... Oh, yeah, yeah. ..to hit the bung. To hit the bung. Shake your territory here.

What country did you say? Australia. These are all Australia. I said, no, these. Hit the bung. Come on, mate. Let's hit the bung. It's... Oh, man, you hit the bung hard last night. Okay.

It's amazing seeing you pretend to be the thing you actually are. That's totally wrong. I'm going to say it is, again, a wine thing. Yeah, right, it means to get drunk. Just to go out. Hit the bung, then the bicep. Yeah, yeah. A bum bowl.

Bum bowl. Bum bowl. That's got to be anal. It's... Ooh, yes! What? No, I think it's wine. Yes, there. I really... I read about a mythological creature that seeks out the bung ball.

And it's a... It's where... it's believed the soul is kept. It's a little ball inside the anus that this beast comes to eat. What are you talking about. It's a little ball inside the anus that this beast comes to eat. What are you telling me? It's a... It's the one James has on his face and be like, oh. There's a mythological creature that eats the bunghole

soul ball that's in our anuses. No. Australia. It's a legend. Australia, very different to the classical. Ancient Greece, a horse with wings. Australia is going to win your bangball, mate! No, it's a dance run by someone who runs a pub. Brilliant. A bang ball. A bang ball!

They've all been beer so far. Well, I didn't want to go, you know, to fair enough. There's been a period where root words have been allowed to be added to the names of wines now. So for example, before 2001, the word bitch was never used on a bottle of wine before. Since then, in the subsequent seven years, there's been 65 wines that all have that as part of their name. And where it's like, ass and arsoles. When you say allowed, it's by the government of the wine government. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Like there's other international wine authorities. Yeah, I think there's in one country. Is it here, for example, in the UK, or is it? Yeah, there is a governing body that allows people to say, yeah, it will be for certain countries. Can we call it a bit sort of bitch tips wine now. Yeah. Nice.

It does never going to be a 15% wine, that is it. OK, it is time for fact number three, and that is James. OK, my fact this week is that the 1894 Baltimore Orioles baseball team had a superstition in which every player would drink a glass of gravy before every match. Wow. So this is from a book called Field of Magic, and it's a book all about different superstitions.

And yeah, I just thought it was strange and very Christmasy gravy. The Orioles were, they were like a quite good team a book all about different superstitions. And yeah, I just thought it was strange and very crispy, gravy. The Orioles were, they were like quite a good team at the time. They were quite dirty team. A lot of people thought that they had very good team morale, and they had their good team together. And apparently, one of the reasons was they

would drink a glass of turkey gravy before batting practice on game days. Was that one of the reasons why they were a dirty team? They all throw not gravy down my front. Yeah, what's a dirty team as a GT? They would do a few tricks, like they would put soap around the mounds so that if an opposing pitcher was trying to get their hands nice and slippery, sorry, to drive them in the dirt, it would get slippery instead.

Yeah. And so they did just little psychological things too. Wait, so as a pitcher you want to have, just to explain, people, the picture you want to have hands that are dried in the dirt. You want to throw it with precision, right? So you want your hands as dry as possible and not sweaty. You want grip. Because fitting on balls, obviously, in other related sports can be an advantage. Well, you're cricket.

Also not allowed. Spitting on baseballs was a thing as well, wasn't it spit balls? And the idea was you would normally have a good grip on them, but with the spitball, they might go in a really weird direction when they flew through the air. They became quite dangerous and they got banned because someone actually died, I think, when they got hit by a spitball. Yeah, yeah. Before we get into it. They blame the spit for that. Like, surely, that's the very outermost layer of a hard baseball traveling through the air fast. Well, what are they otherwise going to do? Just use foam. No, I know, I just think that's like playing the ball.

No, I completely agree. I think it's all very questionable whether these things make that much of a difference to the ball. You know, in cricket, where it's cloudy, and so people go, oh, it's clear the ball's going to move around a lot today. Or I don't know, it's a little bit of a fog. It's like, all the ball's going to swing to the left constantly. And no one actually, I think a lot today, or I don't know, you know, it's a little bit of a fog. It's like, all the balls are going to swing to the left constantly.

And no one actually, I think a lot of these things have not been proven, and no one can actually say why. They've got to talk about something for five days. LAUGHTER I'll tell you the thing about Gravy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is a story about an elderly lady in Scotland

in West Dunbartonshire, right? There's three years ago, 2020. Her family, she was, I think, in her 80s, they were tidying up her house. She was still around, but she was just having a clear out. And they threw away some old Bisto tins, right? Yes. Like a load of plusher in the kitchen,

a load of old Bisto tins, chuckle about. Turns out she had hidden her life savings of £20,000 in cash. Oh, not in gravy. LAUGHTER No, she didn't, she didn't £20 in the Bistotins, that's how you chuck the way. There was a happy ending. They went to the recycling centre and two absolute heroes who worked their search for two hours through all the chucked away bags and they found the Tins. Wow. Thank God. who work there search for two hours through all the chuk-away bags they found the tins.

Wow. Thank God. Thank you. Listen, guys, you don't need to applaud the recycling workers. Also, two hours. That wasn't 48 hours. That was... I bestow it, I bestow. I actually don't bestow.

Bestow. You bestow it on... Well, your daughter, if she hadn't chucked it out, for instance... That's a great answer, but it's wrong. Well, it sort of rhymes with bliss, a bit, not quite the first time. Bliss, though. Like, I thought it was an acro-campaign, and sort of bliss.

A bit of the word rhymes with bliss. Yeah. I thought there was an acro-campaign, which used the word bliss and bistow together. There might have been, there was quite a lot of av-campaigns, but that wasn't, no, no. It is an acronym for Brown's Seasons and Thiccans All in One. Ooh!

That's so cool. Sorry, but that doesn't... Well, I added some extra words in Brown's Seasons The Gopi-A-T. Brown's Seasons Thiccans in One. Where's this? Where's the eye? Bisto! Bisto! The in-one. The in has been taken a minute or two earlier in the acronym. Right, so we should call it Bistostow. B-stow. The in-one. The in-one has been taken a minute or two earlier in the acronym.

Right, so we should call it B-stui. Well, there's an and in there as well. Steve. B-satio. B-satio. B-satio. These guys didn't want that doing. They're drunk on gravy. They probably changed it to what it became, because they were like, this is getting nothing like the word bliss.

What will we do? A gravy train. Yeah. That's a phrase. They probably changed it to what it became, because they were like, this is getting nothing like the word bliss. LAUGHTER What will we do? A gravy train. Yeah. That's a phrase. Yes. I found myself looking for whether there was ever an actual gravy train. Yeah. Doesn't appear so. LAUGHTER Oh, wow. We don't know why we say gravy train. We don't know why it's a train.

Um, a gravy obviously is slang for something that's like easily won. Um, hence the reason we say gravy train. But why train? And apparently there was a writer who theorized that it was actually a miss hearing. And he wrote that since Gravid means laden with eggs, a gravid rain would imply a fall of eggs. So gravy train is probably a miss hearing of gravid rain. LAUGHTER Order. Like, you want to discuss it something.

The eggs raiding down on you. Wow. We don't think that's where it comes from. No. Um, I was looking at... What is gravy but the juices of meat? So I was... LAUGHTER

Right? Thank you, Slaboy, Jisek. Yeah, it does. It sounds like a sort of philosophical paper that you've been working on for 12 years. It's some of my own... Yeah, yeah. I'm building it up.

Yeah. So I mean, gravy is just the juices, I'm I'm building it up. Yeah So I mean Cravy is just the juices of me and then you thicken it right by chucking in I think enough. Yeah exactly corn flour and so you know when you get rare meat and it's red Mm-hmm. Why is it red blood? Yeah, it's all that. What's not blood is it? Me juice It's thank you from backstage Sinister Heckle. Is it sound like a cable behind? Is it you who said it?

Have you been there the whole show? I'm so sorry, you've got the worst view in the house. I'm so sorry. Is it scarves you in my... Oh yeah, you've got to leave. Well, thank you for quietly and cynically murmuring, meat juice. That was amazing.

I thought this was interesting. When people say is that meat really nice and bloody, it's got nothing to do with blood, the redness of rare meat, and the juice is the red juices that squeeze out of it. So it's from myoglobin. So it's from the muscle. And myoglobin is the protein that transports oxygen through muscles, like hemoglobin transports it

around our body. And similarly, like with hemoglobin, the reason that's red, when my globin is exposed to oxygen, it goes red. So it's just this protein in the muscles that goes red when you cut into meat. When it's sitting inside the meat, it's not red at all, when it's not exposed to oxygen. But then it becomes red. It's kind of all fault, in a way. We've turned it red.

The red stuff is there. It's in... I think it is indeed our fault, yes. The world gravy wrestling championships. Gravy wrestling. Gravy wrestling takes place at the Rosenbull pub in Rosendale in Lancashire. And the Fibergade are always there. What? They're always there.

Can't they just use the gravy? Yeah, it's not as a fight. To point the gravy cannon. What... Can you guess why they're always there? People get stuck. No, people don't get stuck. They're covered in gravy. They could drown in gravy, so they're sort of like a life rescue.

Do the... Yeah, I guess the fire brigade would do that. No, they just... There's a big fire... You need a big flame to make all that gravy. No, they just washed down the wrestlers between belts. Oh! They're big ones, okay. Very good. There was a pro, they specifically say that if you're a pro wrestler,

you shouldn't take parts. Because it's just for fun. It's like the people who win it are the people who have the best outfits and who have the best style and stuff like that. But there was a professional wrestler called Tommy Tubeser who went and did it. Can you tell what the difference between pro wrestling and gravy wrestling is?

What's the biggest problem, perhaps, with gravy wrestling? Biling water? Biling water? Biling water. It's not boiling hot gravy. I should say, it's cold gravy. Another year of the gravy wrestling championships. Shall we go call things, shit?

No, no. Apparently you can't get grip on people, but also it gets into your eyes and your ears and you can't see or hear anything. And you just end up flailing around the whole time. Oh, yeah, that's me. Yeah, yeah. So is this the pro wrestlersrestler's excuse for losing?

Is this... Can I just quickly ask the room? Yeah. Those of you here who are millennial or Gen Z, if you know what roughly age group you're in, can you give me a chair? Woo! And those who are...

I notice slightly younger crowds, those who are over, like, 50, give you a chair? Yeah! OK, right, so the first lot, if you like gravy of the millennials or Gen Z lot, give us a chair. Yeah! That's it. OK, completely ruined my fact, thank you.

And the slightly older group, the 50s and over, if you like gravy, give me a chair. Yeah. OK, right, that's... OK, now let's hear the fact. Yeah. The words I've got written down are young people don't like gravy anymore. Not in this room. This room is the absolute nexus of young gravy lovers. It doesn't surprise me that our fans are weirdo outliers.

I bet you really... If we ask millennials or genzards, give us a true of your like, Sherry. Yeah. I love you. See, I told you, we're doing all this. I was reading a lot of surveys about gravy and about who likes it and who doesn't. And I just read, OK, just listen to this.

I'm quite indirectly, right? British people are so obsessed with gravy that they drink it through straws, take it on holiday, and even pour it over pizza and pasta. This is a poll of 2000 adults that found that 13% of people eat it in the car. 11% carry it in a flask. And 14% take it on holiday with them. And this happens to be a survey commissioned by Schwartz Gravy.

Claudia Wincomman uses it to tan. Gidey, really? Yeah, she does. by Schwartz Gravy. LAUGHTER Claudia Winkelman uses it to tan. Gravy? Really? Yeah, she does. She does what she used to. I think now she has someone else who sprays tan on her. But yeah, when she was at uni... What did you use it? It's like painted on. Well, you know, all she did was she told women's hour that she used gravy granules to generate her tan, you know, a fake tan at uni when she first got obsessed with tanning.

She explained... When they do that in the war when they didn't have stockings, they were... They did tan at uni when she first got obsessed with tanning. She explained. When they do that in the war when they didn't have stockings, they were... They did, yeah, dark and their legs were gravy. Water time thing, but I don't think... I don't think it was even second-world war when Claudia Winkamut was at uni. LAUGHTER LAUGHTER MUSIC

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And it's absolutely free at netsuite.com slash fish. Okay, on with the show. On with the show. On with the show. MUSIC OK, it is time for our final fact of the show. And that is my fact. My fact this week is that every year, on November 29th, people in the Netherlands put a pancake on their head. It's just a thing they do in the lead up to the Christmas period. It's what days and today's get the pancakes out to the Christmas period. It's what day is it today?

The pancakes out and they just plop it on their heads. Everyone, like if you watch the news, are they all wearing pancakes? Exactly. Is it like a puppy and if you don't wear it on TV, then people really kick it. It's a bloody pancake. It's so disrespectful. Yeah. Yeah. This is a growing trend.

Basically, this erupted off the back of a cartoon that was published in 1986, where in the cartoon, pancakes were put on there. There's a long, convoluted story, but the basic premise is a joke is made, a pancake is put on ahead, and it kind of just got picked up by people in the Netherlands, and slowly, in the subsequent, what, you know, 30-ish years,

people are now doing it to the point that I've asked three people from the Netherlands, they are like, yeah, yeah, we do that. So, yeah, yeah. So effectively, in the cartoon, the reason for one of the reasons that it was used is that it's very cold in late November and if you have a bolt head or even a bolt spot, you can use the pancake as effectively... No, not a reason. Okay, not the reason that... Not in the post hat world.

But it's still easy, yeah. Yeah, right. You're right. Before the invention of the hat, and it is correct, this would be plausible for you. You can't eat your hat afterwards, can you? No, that's where the phrase comes from, doesn't it? I mean, that's from when the hat's werepang. Oh, sorry, I should have properly researched this

made-up story from a comic book. Don't start where you can't finish, all right? We're just going to a little questions about this. Okay, keep going. Do the pancakes end up being eaten? Or are they disposed of? No, I think, oh god, do you eat your own pancake, or is it like you see something?

What? You think that's sexy? What are you seeing? Some of the other stuff I've got is someone across the bar and they've got a nice pancake on there. Yeah, you do. It gets to 11.59 and you're like, look at your lips.

Yeah, I know both of them. Well, you know, It gets to 11.59 and you're like, look at your lips. I know both of them. Well, you're both upside down. You think each other's pancakes, you know? LAUGHTER Well, you'd think, given I spoke to three people who do this, I would have asked more questions than just, do you put it on your head? Yep, okay, good. Thank you, good-bye.

But that's what happened. I just asked that one question. Oh, okay. What a great question. Do they eat it afterwards? I have no idea. I think they do. I believe they do. And I think it's just for a photo, isn't it? Often, maybe the cheats do it for a photo. And no toppings on the pancakes at the time. Who was I going to tell?

Is it the sort of smaller diameter thicker pancakes? Or is it like the big crepes that you have? That's a great question. Like, thin or thick pancakes. I think if I had a bold patch I'd go for the thick smaller one. I've seen the photos and they're more like the crepes. Yeah. That would be like a Yamalka, wouldn't it? Well, that's what I was thinking it was.

It was like a winter Yamaka, which is... But yeah, no, it's more like the big a bucket hat. So they all like the crepe ones, okay. Good? Yeah. All right. Any further? I'm actually not taking any more questions at this time. It is quite a niche and it feels like quite a modern social media driven tradition, isn't it? Yeah. Well, people sharing pictures themselves and I was looking at like kind of weird and modern

Christmas traditions that grow. So in Sweden, I don't think we've mentioned Kalle Anker before, which is such a phenomenon. So this is the fact that half of people in Sweden on Christmas Eve watched Donald Duck 50% of the country, mid-40s since Netflix and stuff. But yeah, and it's these Disney short cartoons that's been happening since 1959. And I was reading an article by a guy who's going out

with a Swedish girl, and he spent Christmas with their family. And he said, it's not a tall, a lighthearted thing. You do not eat or prepared in a while watching. Everyone sits very quietly and watches. Really? People plan their Christmas around it, so you've got lunch before Kalayanka. You've got Father Christmas Comes After Calle Anca,

but when that's on, you've all got to watch. And they've seen it, you know, 40, 50, 60 times before, and the biggest complaints gandles in Swedish television come the few times that they suggest canceling it. Right. I think the 1970s, they said they wanted to alter it or cancel it and yeah, huge outcry. It's the same cartoon, it's five minute shorts every time. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's a series of cartoons. That's amazing. What country do you say?

In Sweden and also in Denmark I think they do it as well. Is anyone from Sweden or Denmark in the audience? And Norway? And Norway, okay. And so you guys do that? Yeah, you're up there. Wow, do you like it? The first ten times was a game. The first ten times was OK. There's a guy called Arnie Weiss, who is a presenter in Sweden. And he was the presenter of the show that kind of hosted it.

And he said it broke up three of his marriages. Sorry. Oh, I don't know. OK, who would like to take first question of this one? Donald Duck. Do we know how, like, was he walking around like Donald Duck without any trousers on? And kept bumping into other women?

Yeah. Wait, him presenting it broke up three of his marriages? I think it was. He's feeling like a lot of transference by him. So I think he did drink a lot as well. LAUGHTER But no, he had to present it every year. And one year he said, do you mind if I record it in advance?

Because it is literally the same thing every year. Record it in advance, and I can spend Christmas with my family. And Rumor got out that he wanted to record it in advance. And there was genuine proper public outcry. The media got hold of it and said, absolutely not, has to be live, has to be Christmas Eve. And Christmas Eve, I think, is a bigger deal in Christmas day, not those places. So...

And it broke up as marriages. It's not like that we're getting brownie points, if anything. No, because it's on the rocks already. The wife said, you know, get back to your producers and tell them you're not going in this year. Right. Please ask them. He's come back to tell between his legs. And they're producing a sink. and tell them you're not going in this year. Please ask the Amiz Khan backtale between his legs. And the producer's like,

whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew, whew. That's, wow, gosh, poor guy. Poor guy. Yeah, spending Christmas with your family is kind of modern tradition, I guess, in this country. And apparently spending Christmas with your in-laws can have a detrimental effect on your bowels. This is a study in 2016 that collected gut bacteria from people who had spent Christmas in their own family

or people who had spent Christmas with their in-laws, and they found a significant decrease in the Rumenokaka species and people who visited in-laws. And if you don't have as much of this kind of good bacteria, it's associated with stress, with depression, and it can give you very loose bowels. So, is it the stress, wait, is it the stress and depression that causes the bacterial thing?

That's what we're thinking, yeah, exactly. So it's more stressful and depressing to be. It's more stressful for you because you're with your in-laws, you have less of this bacteria, you need to go to the toilet more. Right, wow. I'm sure it's not just an excuse.

The scientists writing this were visiting their indoors, and they just want to excuse themselves for the 19th time at Christmas. Oh, where's Daniel? Oh, it's just the bowel thing. You've heard that study, didn't you? Yeah. Then these papers, the scientists are always really rigorous

and they give their like caveats and cases anything. They said, it is possible that participants with greater aversion towards their in-laws have used the excuse of participating in a scientific study addressing Christmas poo to not visit their in-laws during Christmas. Wow. Well, just while I remember, as well as a pumpkin spice latte,

Starbucks also recently released a olive oil latte. And allegedly, if you have it, you may shit yourself. So, be near a toilet if you go there. I mean, with a latte, you're in danger of shitting yourself anyway, right? Exactly, then put some oil in. It's like the oil loosens you up, and the coffee makes you want to go. Lubricates.

Yeah. So, why would anyone order an olive oil latte? That sounds absolutely... It smells smoother, apparently. Yeah, no kidding. I mean... I wasn't... I wasn't treating a normal latte like it was made of gravel. I'd be like...

I know, I'm not a frontier pioneer kind of guy, but I don't know if I'm getting to the end of a latte without, you know, lacerating my throat. All right. Can I tell you about another tradition? Yeah, yeah. This is an old tradition, actually. This is a very ancient French tradition. It's called the Feast of the Ass.

And it dates back to... Grow up. It's also known as the Feast of the Donkey, but it's a much less funny. And... And it's basically you take a donkey... LAUGHTER ..take it where it is. You take it to church, actually.

Yeah. Yeah, you take a donkey through the town, and then it's... And then you take it, what? Guys, literally everything you say sounds like a UFO. I've got sort of track, I'm in a maze. Everywhere is suggestive. Often there's someone writing the donkey and it goes into the like,

I'm just trying to wet through all the innuendos so we can, you know, like... And it stands next to the altar in the church and it stands to end the priest as the sermon. And then at the end of the sermon, the priest and the congregation, they both do a call and response kind of mimicking the donkey's voice. They all go, ee-ah, ee-ah.

And it's a really fun thing to do as the 12th century. So this is like, ah-ha. This is as fun as life gets, basically. And then you have a raucous party outside. And it's basically that old Christmas tradition of inverting normal society. A lot of misrule. A lot of misrule. A lot of misrule. The bosses are not in charge. The servants are in charge.

All of that. And it's basically all folded into that. Yeah. But that Christmas, the centuries, was not a family affair. It wasn't something sort of pleasant and homely and Christmasy and snuggly. Yeah.

It was like out in the streets. There's a whiff of violence and a lot of alcohol. And a lot of shagging, I think. I've seen two or three of the ass. There were a lot of people. A lot of pancake gone through, yeah. I think so. We're sailing was another thing they did, wasn't there?

Is that it? What's that? Was sailing, whistling? I don't really know what whistling was. It's when you go house singing basically, and they give you some money or some candy or whatever. But traditionally it was, oh, it's like over a thousand years old, maybe the idea of it. And what would happen was the lords of the manor would be in their house and the local

people would go round to their house and were sale and they'd be given gifts by the lord of the manor. It's kind of like Christmas trickle-draighting. It is, apart from the fact that the gift that they got, given was often animal manure. Oh. Because in those days, obviously, you know, it was good for growing your plants and crops and stuff like that.

Very hard to wrap, though. Yeah. Oh, what could it be? LAUGHTER Maybe the tricycle, my little boy, has been arching more. You've gotten old and just set to shape. To get people's heads down. It's very hard to wrap if you've had a dollar by a latte.

Oh, god. I've found a few other Dutch traditions. So there's this thing that they do in the Netherlands, which is they'll take children sort of about 10 to 13 about that sort of age and And they just drop them off in the woods at the middle of the night. They just drop them all off. Is this handsome grattle you've been reading? Basically, this thing. It's a scout thing where they just get them into a car in the middle of the night

They drop them off of the woods and they just have to find their way back and they say that in the towns at like two to three a.m These kids come stumbling back. And they say that in the towns, at like two to three AM, these kids come stumbling. Oh, well. Yeah, yeah, it's a genuine tradition. Again, I spoke to three people who've done it. And I asked one question of them and then hung up. And then there's this other amazing thing, which I think is really sweet. In the Netherlands, there's this town that's called Margaretton.

And it has an American cemetery. And so there are 8,300 Americans who are buried there from the Second World War. And there's a thing that they have there which is you adopt a grave. And so each family goes and they maintain the grave and they bring flowers every weekend and so on. That's nice. And they make sure that the person is being remembered and looked after. Quite a cool tradition.

Yeah. Do you guys know Elf on the shelf? Oh, yeah. Do you know what Elf on the shelf? Oh, yeah. Do you know what Elf on the shelf is? Yeah. Again, I'm cleaning on my finger, and I was talking about Elf on the shelf.

Don't really know what it is. So it's where you, as a parent, mostly in America, you buy an Elf on the shelf, and you hide it in a different place in the house every day in the Christmas period. We do it at home. It's a lost off to our Yelf, yeah. And you put it up, and it's like,

what's he doing up there today? And then, what's she hiding in that cupboard for today? And so it's hide and seek every day. It's the idea not though that the elf is watching over you and making sure that you're not naughty. That's why I thought it was. That's exactly correct, yes. Yeah.

Wait, because it's... So I thought it'd been around forever, Elf on the shelf. But it's based on a 2005 self-published book. Must be the most successful self-published book ever by a mother and daughter who told this story to each other about these elves that spy on the kids before Christmas and check and report back to Santa every night whether they've been naughty or nice and they fly back in the morning and hide in a different place and Yeah, it's been on the bestseller list every year since 2013 Which is quite good for a self-published book and it it came with a free, like, elf that you sit on yourself.

But yeah, it's caused so much outrage. Does it have cameras in it and stuff? It doesn't need to. It's got eyes that can see. Let's see. No, it doesn't. But it gives your kids the idea that they're constantly being surveilled.

It's kind of just like, you know, not to a nice list from Santa Claus, isn't it? Like it sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. That's how they sing it, isn't it? That's how you sing in your own voice. On street calls. You better watch out.

OK, that is it. That is all of our facts. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things we've said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on various bits of social media. I'm on Instagram on At Shribaland. James. On Twitter, At James Harkin. Andy. At Andrew Hunter M. And Anna. You can contact all of the fish by emailing podcast at qi.com or twittering or xing at

no such thing. Yeah. Or you can. Is that the verb? No, it's such a stupid word. No one's come up with a verb yet. Okay, cool. Yeah, or you can go to our group website, which is no such thing as a fish.com.

We have all of our previous episodes up there. We have a link to Clubfish or just come back next week because we'll have another episode for you. Merry Christmas, everyone. We hope you have a great day and we'll see you again next time. Good bye! Thank you.