No Such Thing As A Fish - 512: No Such Thing As A Dirty Bar Of Soap

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

Dan, Anna, Andy and Rhys James discuss soap, style, naps and novelists. Visit for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes. Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes a...nd exclusive bonus content at or

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey everyone, welcome to the very first episode of Fish in the year 2024. This is going to be a really big year for us. We're incredibly excited. It's our 10 year anniversary. 10 years of fish this March. That's over 500 episodes, 29,000 facts. Actually, so far 29,597 facts to be exact. We know that because Andy keeps a spreadsheet.
Starting point is 00:00:25 So thanks to everyone who's been tuning in all this time. I hope you had a great holiday break. Hope you had a great new year's. We got a great episode for you today. James is away on holiday at the moment, so in his place we have another James. A Reese James. I'm sure you're all aware of Reese James. He's an amazing standup comedian.
Starting point is 00:00:41 He's appeared on multiple TV shows and radio shows. Most predominantly I would say as a regular or mock the week, where for years he was a panelist. And actually, if you go to Reese's Instagram account, which is at Reese Jamesy, that's Reese James, but with a Y at the end, you'll find the funniest Instagram account out there in my personal opinion. It's the reason I basically stayed on Instagram for a long time. He's uploaded all of his single one-liners that he's delivered on the show mock the Week from over the years, and honestly you will be in tears laughing.
Starting point is 00:01:10 So get that into your life, follow him there, and if you want more long-form stuff by him, you can go to his YouTube account where you'll find an entire radio show that's been uploaded there, and that's called Research, as in Reese's name, but mixed with research. Reese's Search. And to describe that show the best way, but mixed with research, Reese's search. And to describe that show the best way would be to say it's answering all of life's big questions, but done in a sort of brass-eye mold. It's incredibly funny, and you must check it out, but in the meantime, don't go anywhere because you can enjoy him here on no such thing as a fish, so here we go, on with the
Starting point is 00:01:40 show. Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hobern. My name is Dan Schreiber, I am sitting here with Anna Toshinsky, Andrew Hunter Murray, and Reese James. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days, and in a particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is Reese.
Starting point is 00:02:19 Soap is the best way to move a building. How do you feel about that? That was so dramatically presented. I really enjoyed it. And I actually, my brother, I had other options, I had other options of ways to introduce that headline. I went with that basic, really simple one. But I was gonna say something like,
Starting point is 00:02:36 washing, removing stains, moving buildings. Just three of the hats, soapwears. You know, that's what I was gonna go with. But twice the first fact, you know, I keep it simple. Just what you know I had that in the locker. No, no, absolutely. I think you played it right though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so what's the story here then? So in Nova Scotia, at last, it's very, very, very local news this story. And there was like a local news video about it, but basically, an old Victorian building that was mostly used as a hotel for about 100 years,
Starting point is 00:03:09 was going to get knocked down, then a company bought it because they wanted to attach it to a planned apartment block, sort of 30 feet away, and instead of moving it the traditional way with rollers, they used 700 bars of ivory soap, because that's the softest soap, and that's for the Slypheus. And they did that successfully to then get it onto new foundations, have 100 bars of ivory soap because that's the softest soap. And that's for the slippiest. And they did that successfully to then get it onto new foundations. And then once that is complete, they are going to move the whole thing back.
Starting point is 00:03:31 Good. What? Yeah, why? I don't know. They're going to move, because basically it's now it's like a protected landmark of this old building, I think. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:03:39 And so they were going to restore the whole thing and put it back to where it was, which to me just suggests you wanted to move it with soap. You didn't need to put this. Yeah, if it's protected, but we've also proved beyond doubt that it's mobile. Yeah. It doesn't matter where it is as long as we're protecting it. Yeah, yeah. On the road.
Starting point is 00:03:55 I found it amazing how little soap you need to move. Yes. I mean, I looked at a photo. There's a big building. 700 bars of soap. It's obviously lots of bars of soap, but it's not that many ways. Surface area wise, it doesn't. But it didn't even use 700 bars.
Starting point is 00:04:09 Oh, really? Yeah, they took some home, didn't they? I think some of the builders took, there was 20 to 40 bars left. So they used most of it. Yeah, they estimated quite well. Yeah, no, but I mean, last. Oh, my God, don't hear that. What the crazy thing is, this is not the first time that soap's been used to move buildings,
Starting point is 00:04:26 but it's clearly an essential ingredient as part of the process of what they're doing. And it was as they were getting ready to move it, that's they went, we don't have any soap. So it's not even like they've bought it in industrial bulk amounts. What ended up happening was the guy who is in charge of it, his wife Leanne, had to run to 15 shops around the area
Starting point is 00:04:44 and buy using 970 something box, the equivalent of 700. It's only 70,000. When you put it like that, it's only, it's the sounds quite task master, doesn't it? It's like a panic there. I'm like, oh my god. And he, wasn't this guy, Sheldon Rushden,
Starting point is 00:04:58 the lead builder guy, said, I think he said at first, he thought, I'll just ask my wife if we can use some of our soap from home. And there was only when she said, we're absolutely not doing that. I'm not giving up our personal supply that she offered to drive around. Which made me think, how many bars of soap are you stopped piling in your house? Yeah, exactly. But also how precious are you about where the soap is your personal supply? Absolutely.
Starting point is 00:05:23 Sorry, surely, if it was like, yeah, you can use some viral soap, but use some of the budget to get us some new soap. It's just the only the same thing. You're right. But it has sentimental value, her own personal soap. I think once you're mixing work with pleasure, it's a very attractive day. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:05:38 And it's some, we are not actually sponsored by Ivory Soap this week, but it is very, very soft apparently and that's great So you do use the opa code fish But so what the basic method you use to move the building is you so you dig under the building Don't you and then you put steel beams under the building then you lift the whole thing up by one inch On hydraulic jacks you put steel beams under the building. Then you lift the whole thing up by one inch on hydraulic jacks, just jack it up one inch and you slide the soap underneath it on trays.
Starting point is 00:06:10 And then I think you lower, then you lower an inch and it just kind of squishes the soap, but it's incredibly soapy now. Yeah, so then you leave it overnight to squish the soap, right, you sit it on the soap overnight, which I feel like a building's heavy enough that you only need to sit it on the soap for 10 minutes. These guys are experts, haven't they?
Starting point is 00:06:26 They know what they're doing. And then what you're trying to create a sort of slip and slide aspect to it. I bet they can just push it, and it's just about the weight you push it, where it's curling. And then it just does it land, isn't it? You want the building to be an eventually like, no, I pushed it too hard, it's not in the sink. It's a thousand of them with brooms.
Starting point is 00:06:42 Try and slow it up. Any of you curled? Never. I curled. I curled. Sorry, but I curled. It's a thousand of them with broomstick. Try to slow it out. Any of you curled? Never. I curled. I curled. Sorry, but I curled. I was trained by the British Olympic curling duo for the Winter Olympics just gone.
Starting point is 00:06:55 Yeah, curled? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll big time. Whose names are, and then just insert them if you were. They were lovely. Why were you hoping to be the third member of the team? If you were three more than... ...they were lovely. And, girl... Why were you hoping to be the third member of the team? Yeah, I did, I think, four team GBs, like YouTube thing,
Starting point is 00:07:11 I went and had to do four Winter Olympic sports, because in the Summer Olympic podcast, I had said, as a joke, I reckon I could master any Olympic sport in a day. Right. And I was just, you know, I was being hyper-volic, and then suddenly, the next series, I said, go go on then and I mastered none of them in several days. One of them is curling though which was the easiest but it's like insane at first because also they're not very technical with their language so they literally just call it grippy
Starting point is 00:07:33 shoe and slippy shoe and you have one of these. Oh that's like bowling. Right, you're being in the slippy. Yeah, yeah. So you have, and they gave me like this thing that goes under your shin as you slide along at first. There's basically like a little ice skate, but just rest I think you just have that at first and then you're supposed to just slide on your actual shin
Starting point is 00:07:51 But it felt they give you that at first. That's like barriers in bowling. I reckon all like the thing you push the ball down Pretty badly I think but it was better than what I had to do speed skating and smashed open my chin. On the last shot of the whole thing. Oh wow. That was much worse. Good ending though. Good ending though. Little ski for the bottom of your chin. You're going to need a curling.
Starting point is 00:08:12 Yeah, that's a tradition. That's a tradition. We just come in today dressed fully in skis, but they hate the toe of the skis for every then. Well the only issue with the idea with this building being the curling system is you could probably get it into place with one big push, but then you might have a rival building behind you, knock you out using the same system. You know the Titanic was put on soap.
Starting point is 00:08:33 I think we've said before that the Titanic was put on soap to go down the slipway. Yeah, like the oil, oil, bilber and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, it was tallow and oil and soap and it was 20 tons of it that was used. It was kind of amazing, but obviously that's more than 700 bars, isn't it? Yeah, but I did, so I was just reading a bit more about that. I'd never read this before that workers, they would go to the slipway afterwards and try and gather up any spare soap that was left over. Oh, to use themselves. Interesting.
Starting point is 00:08:57 But it was also covered in sort of oil and... You could probably wash it, right? You could probably wash away that and then you've got the soap sitting underneath. I guess so. Yeah, I don't think soap gets... You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably will. You probably. You probably will. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. Probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. Probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You probably. You weigh in on this debate. Please. Of course you can get so dirty. Of course you can get so dirty, but it doesn't stop it cleaning you. So it doesn't matter if you're so dirty, doesn't make it different. Yeah, I love the dirty.
Starting point is 00:09:32 You would have to be for the dirt on it to make you dirtier. Yeah. And outweigh the cleanliness of the soap being applied to you. It's so dirty. Yeah. So you're at that point, right off that bar of soap. Sometimes in horrible pubs, there will be a bar of soap, you know, at the sinks, and you look at it and you think,
Starting point is 00:09:47 oh, I'm actually, I'm not sure. Well, this is a thing. They've, there was a report that was done, a sort of a research project to look into how clean actually are in bathrooms like pubs and stuff, how clean is the soap that you're getting? And they've worked out that some of the dispensers are left for so long, whether not maintained
Starting point is 00:10:04 and they get cracks in it, that you can go to the toilet, wash your hands with the soap and leave with dirty your hands, then you arrive to it. Yeah, because they found 15 types of bacteria that were sitting on these dispensers that would make it onto your hand
Starting point is 00:10:17 as part of the soap. And they would say, and yeah, they're like, yeah, same pool handles, yeah, toilet, yeah, I know what people are doing in here. No, no, no, no. I'm gonna I'm going to make a call on this toilet thing
Starting point is 00:10:28 and say it doesn't make your hands dirty at the end of the washroom, because it doesn't matter if there's bacteria on the soup dispenser. So on the soup dispenser, it does matter. Well, it doesn't even seem. But on the soup dispenser, it's in the point of soap that it gets onto your hands and then it makes the water and the dirt on your hands more slippery.
Starting point is 00:10:44 And so gets them off. And it doesn't matter if there's bacteria on the dispenser. It does that. It does that. It does that. It does that immediately get us all of that off. So which is why it doesn't matter if a bar of soap is dirty. No, but that's the amazing thing about soap. And that's why it's so incredible that we, you know, as a species discovered it was just
Starting point is 00:10:58 millennia ago. It not only makes the dirt and stuff on your hands slippery to slide off, but it also has this structure which tears open bacteria and viruses. It's amazing. Yeah. I want to read this because I don't want to get it wrong. Each molecule of soap has a head which bonds with water and then a tail which hates water,
Starting point is 00:11:18 and it's hydrophobic and tries to avoid it at all costs. That's horrible identity crisis. I know. It's poor molecule. And there's so the tail seeks oils and facts and things. And basically, bacteria and viruses, they're surrounded by a lipid membrane, a fatty membrane. And when they touch soap, the soap kind of envelops it
Starting point is 00:11:37 and also the soap molecule tails, which are trying to avoid water, realize there is a fatty layer on that bacterium and burrow into it, they sort of wedge themselves in and that wraps the bacterium apart. So that's the other thing that's going on as well as making things slippier Yeah, it's just amazing. It's amazing. That's incredible. Yeah, and it smells nice. That smells nice And less we forget Actually, that was the main comment of the builders after they moved that building Honestly, they said they went away smelling great
Starting point is 00:12:04 Do you know though? Honestly, they said they went away smelling great. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you know, though, what is better out of... I feel like I've presented this in a really obvious way now, out of antibacterial soap and just a bar of soap. Antibacterial? Done, you idiot! I mean, I even said it, so the answer was clear. No, there's a serious worry that people are converting
Starting point is 00:12:21 to antibacterial soap a lot and hand soap. And there's a guy called Professor Lysko who works at Monash University in Australia. And he says that he thinks they should all be banned antimicrobial soaps because they're not better than just a bar of soap, even though we've got them all over our house now, there's a COVID hangover. Not better than a bar of soap. Hand soap is where you don't use water are significantly less good because, you know, when you get a hand sanitizer, that's a lot less good because the water doesn't, you need the water to scrub away and wash off that layer. And he says that they're
Starting point is 00:12:56 causing a huge amount of antibiotic resistance because we're shoving this antibacterial soap at our hands and all the bacteria is becoming kind of super bugs on our hands. Yes. And he explains exactly, we're all going to have just these super bugs living on us. So really, and this really surprised me, it's not about the antimicrobial chemical properties really, as much as it is about the scrub, but actually the key is, as long as you scrub your hands really hard with the water,
Starting point is 00:13:24 it scrapes them off. And with the soap? And with the soap. Water does all right, the soap is, as long as you scrub your hands really hard with the water, it scrapes them off. And with the soap. And with the soap. Water does all right, the soap is the thing that really can do. Yes, there's definitely something psychological about the smell and presentation, though, right? Of how clean you feel, because natural soaps don't feel... They obviously are better, and you could make soap out of just oil and... Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:13:40 ...mard, basically, on you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I find rubbing oil on my body. I don't feel... And large. That's why I'm easily clean. a load, basically, on you. Yeah, yeah. I find rubbing oil on my body. I don't feel, and large, lean massively clean.
Starting point is 00:13:47 No, no. Yeah, no. It's like that, and the scrub of that is what actually makes you clean. Why am I getting so turned on? I need a seat, so. Well, I shouldn't be rubbing myself. But, um.
Starting point is 00:13:58 You need, I need a seat, it has to have a scent. Oh, I won't feel. It does it. Well, also, I've not used a bar of soap for years, and I find a bar of soap disgusting. How many are you always only using? Never a bar. Never a bar.
Starting point is 00:14:11 Come on. I don't mind a bar of soap. Are you a cartoon? Are you all cartoon? What did you do? I don't use, in our house, we have liquid soap as opposed to a bar of soap. But I'm using a little pump.
Starting point is 00:14:24 No, I have a shower gel type situation. You've got to give me a lot of pumps soap. Yeah, it's really a concept. But you should just feel very guilty, because of course you are single-handedly destroying the world. No palm oil. We always say no palm oil, please. What is the issue plastic?
Starting point is 00:14:37 No palm oil. Yeah, plastic. Is it around? What are you saying it to? Are you saying your personal social? Is it no palm oil, please? So much to my luck. Sorry tell me to wipe out that. Sorry, I don't make that clear.
Starting point is 00:14:50 And it's most soaps, I have, again, I actually haven't bought bar in the ages. Aren't they covered in quite a plasticky kind of wrapping? Uh, yes, Dan, but... Is it paper these days? Ah, okay, there's a spectrum. Right, there is a spectrum. What we see there's a spectrum is here, from Anna, who uses only old-fashioned bars of soap that have to be cut from the mother block.
Starting point is 00:15:10 And it wrapped in, who's proof paper. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Up to Dan, who has like those auto dispenses at every doorway in his house. Yeah, yeah. So the other board, this is such a part of the thing to say, but actually, if you use bar soap, it's got slightly lower carbon footprint in the travel emissions.
Starting point is 00:15:30 Cool, because you're not, you know, with liquid soap, you're mostly transporting the water. You know what I'm about, okay. But what about the satisfaction of a foam burst? You're gonna use the foam burst? I've okay briefly obsessed with foam burst. What is a foam burst? It's just the soap that is literally designed
Starting point is 00:15:43 to become extra foamy when you're in your lathering. And so you know, feel, it's exciting. It's very exciting where to start or end your day. Just feel like you're not engaging with the ethical issues here. Listen, very much set and foam based. And I'm happy this got record. I couldn't give a fuck about the ethical issues.
Starting point is 00:16:00 I flew it. Stop the podcast! Stop the podcast! Hey everyone, this week's episode of Fish is sponsored by Hello Fresh. Hello fresh. Yes, you may have heard us advertising. Hello fresh before. They are a fantastic firm. They send you kits to make delicious meals in your own kitchen, in your own home, probably the kitchen. You can try the room if you like. And they're fantastic. The food is great. It allows you to plan out what you're having in advance, which means it's easier for you to lock in eating
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Starting point is 00:17:30 that first order and 25% of the next two months and they are so good, get it now. Om of the bonkest, on with the throw! Okay, it is time for fact number two and that is Andy. My fact is that the 19th century author Thomas Hardy had two funerals at the same time. Did you say 19th century author so we didn't confuse him with the 21st century actor? Yeah. Because he's still alive. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:18:00 This is Tom Hardy, Thomas Hardy, who wrote, I'm confusing it already, Jude the Obscure, Tassel the Derbyvilles, Mare of Castle Bridge. We don't need the full bibliography. About 900 poems, he was a big deal. He was. He was mega famous, actually. And that was sort of what led to this problem. Basically, he was meant to be buried in Dorset
Starting point is 00:18:16 in his native Stinzford with his first wife, right? And it was all ready to go. There was a space on the tombstone for him, his name to be added, you know. And then he died. And then his friends, including James Barry of Peter Pan, Peter Pan, and Sydney Cockrell, who slightly less well treated by history, but you know, I'm sure a big deal at the time. They went to his home basically on his death and they said, we think he should be buried in Poets Corner in Westminster Rabby, he's huge, huge deal and they kind of bullied Tomas Hardy's second wife Florence into going along with it, you know, she sort of said, oh okay fine. So they struck a deal whereby he went
Starting point is 00:18:58 to Poets Corner and his heart went to Stensford and then they both had a funeral at 2pm on the 16th of January 1928. I mean real Syfie's choice for his second wife. Sorry you're going to be buried in Poets Corner which is not where he's supposed to be or with your other wife, your previous wife. And oh no we'll just take your heart to your previous wife. No it's really. What's your mother's mother's father? No I got in all of this. You've taken it with my end of art. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true.
Starting point is 00:19:29 And also, like, well, I think reading into it more, I think his family was there as well. So that was kind of... Stinson, yeah. Exactly, yeah. No, not though it's Gordon. Yeah. And so, because his wife, his first wife, they didn't particularly get on to well,
Starting point is 00:19:44 like, deep into the marriage, to begin with, they didn't particularly get on to well, like, deep into the marriage. To begin with, they did. But there was a lot of... No, it was a painful marriage according to a lot of the friends and close relatives and so on. And her, herself. And him, himself. Yeah, all right. Yeah, yeah. Why did he want to be there? Well, the family, I guess. She just happened to be there. Right.
Starting point is 00:20:02 He felt huge regret about what a dick he was to her. It was said. He treated her quite bad. She kept a book. Oh my God, it's the greatest title I've ever heard. Yeah, so he found after she died, and they did have this difficult relationship, didn't they? And she's a very interesting, weird character.
Starting point is 00:20:19 But he found in the attic after she died, a diary that she'd written basically called something like, what I think of my husband. Oh, yeah. Just loads of bitching about him. And he did, and he'd feel so awful. And he felt really guilty reading that. And I think he burned it, so don't know.
Starting point is 00:20:34 Immediately. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. I feel so bad about it. Okay, let's just talk more than the fire. Don't you want the gas light. Yeah. I think that's every husband's nightmare.
Starting point is 00:20:43 Yeah. Yeah, it's like a bird. Oh my god. It's not a dream for every wife. I'm that's every husband night. Yeah. It's like a bird. It's like a bird. Oh my god. It's not a dream for every wife. I'm going to tell you. You're not picking up a book called What I Think of a husband expecting positive review. He is great. End of book. Oh, I do.
Starting point is 00:20:56 Always hell. He always listens. She lives in the attic. She just moved into the attic after a while. A while after their relationship started to go really wrong. Oh. She was kind of the, she was the same woman in the attic. Well, I mean, the source is different on the sanity of the source. And then you remarried, you married Florence, who was 39 years his junior.
Starting point is 00:21:14 There's a big difference, though. The list of not even guests at the funeral of Tomas Hardy, but the Paul Barres. You had, just before I mentioned, James Barry, James Barry was one of the Paul Barres. You had, just before I mentioned, James Barry, James Barry was one of the Paul Barres. You had George Bernard Shaw. You had the Prime Minister, Stanley Baldwin, is one of the Paul Barres,
Starting point is 00:21:33 and then various other names that were obviously massive. Two Prime Ministers being Paul Barres, but one of them wasn't Prime Minister yet. That's right, leader of the opposition at the time. Ramsay McDonald, who was then the first Labour Prime Minister. Yeah. Ruddia Kipling and Kipling, yeah. Paul Barre. Ramsay McDonald, who is then the first Labour Prime Minister. Yeah. Ruddy Kippling. And Kippling, yeah. Paul Berra.
Starting point is 00:21:47 I mean, I guess is this not surprising? Like if Richard Osman dies, I wouldn't be massively surprised if like Sebastian folks Ian McEwan. Yeah, but this is the equivalent of Richard C. And Keir Starman was turning up. Yeah, I tell you what. I don't think you get a lot of volunteers to carry that coffin. He's a big lad.
Starting point is 00:22:01 Yeah, your pawn, Yeah, I don't think you get a lot of volunteers to carry that coffin. He's a big lad. Yeah, your pawn, Yeah, your pawn, there at least would be very long, wouldn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. lad. Yeah, your poor, very less would be very long wouldn't it? Yeah. I want to have tall Thomas, I didn't want to,
Starting point is 00:22:06 because he had ten. Did he? It feels like a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Normally you can fit six. Oh, I'm okay. Yeah, I'm a good point. You know.
Starting point is 00:22:14 Very squeezed in. I don't know. I know. I know. I think he was definitely quite puny as a baby. And his mother gave birth and they went, well, we'll set that side, because it's not a life and we'll retrieve them other. Oh.
Starting point is 00:22:22 And they put him to one side thinking that he wasn't alive. And then the midwife, who probably wasn't doing a job particularly well, said after a few minutes, oh hang on a second, this baby's alive, we should keep it going. Great. And he was very, and for the first few weeks, everyone assumed that he would die. And he was quite weakling, I think, when he was younger.
Starting point is 00:22:37 Are you guys fans of his stuff? Yeah, I read Tessa the Dermabils at school, and it was the first as it were literature book that I'd write up until then I was reading Spinoff Indiana Jones novelizations and I it blew my mind. I thought it was fantastic. Yeah. And he wrote my favourite poem, the Darkling Thrush. Amazing poem. Do you want to read it? Well, he considered himself a poet more than a author, didn't he? Despite these like seminal, it's a classic of successful as an author, right?
Starting point is 00:23:05 That's just like, yeah. He was extremely successful as a poet as well. And the last 30 years of his life, he only wrote poetry, didn't he? Well, he had success, but this, to me, is like, Ant and Deck, considering themselves musicians. But they, you know, they've taken successful in the charts, but you wouldn't say,
Starting point is 00:23:20 yes, the famous, yeah, the repertoire. Musicians, Ant and Deck have died, is not what's going to be yeah exactly but he just this to me is just like you know his Twitter bio would just you want those ones just like a list poet or son father husband twice for anyone who's listening is not a fan they're basically the books are they're amazing but it was incredibly gloomy, as in their, their, their, their feature all sorts of, you know, terribly unhappy people be, you know, making poor decisions. Yeah. And getting on badly with each other. That's, I don't know what I think that he has a reputation. Far from the Madden crowd is not a gloomy book. Everyone always says such sad books, but
Starting point is 00:24:00 yeah, don't read Jiu-Jitsu. If you, what? So Jiu-Jitsu got the god in a few years ago, then produced this fantastic infographic on what each book contains in terms of various traumas. Right, so Jiu-Diabskir was by a long shot the winner, but it features, they just listed like in little bullet points what it features. An unhappy relationship, a death, another unhappy relationship, another unhappy relationship,
Starting point is 00:24:18 grinding poverty, suicide, murder, murder. That's one child who kills two others and then himself. Miscarriage, alcoholism, another death, and animal genitalia related injury, which I had forgotten about, which does feature indeed the obscure. Does it? What happens? Dude, he meets his wife, Aarabella, when she throws a pig's pizzle, a pig's penis at him, and it wallops him on the bonts.
Starting point is 00:24:41 When you said animal related genital injury, I'll never have guessed that I was going to something biting I never would have I never would have thought it was the animals genital that was doing the cause of it It's a different part of his body Yeah, this member pig dick was not Yeah, this membered pig dick was not. Yeah, yeah. Oh my bingo can't hurt in 1894. LAUGHTER I got the train in today to King's Cross, and I had a bit of time on my hands,
Starting point is 00:25:14 and I went to see something pretty incredible. The tree? Yeah. I went to see the Hardy Tree. What's that? The Hardy Tree is Old St. Pancras Church, which is just up the road from St. Pancras Station International, and it's a church where you have a graveyard there. And when Hardy prior to becoming a full-time writer, I think maybe he was dabbling in writing at that point, but he was an architect beforehand, and he used to work in London, and he worked
Starting point is 00:25:41 for a company which was called Blumfield. And one of the things that Blumfield needed to do was they needed to move a lot of the graves that were in the area to make room for a new rail track. It was the mainland, midland Grand Railway and so they had to exume bodies and there were something like thousands of bodies that they had to exume and they had all these leftover tombstones and Hardy did this thing where there's about a hundred of them of these tombstones, and Hardy did this thing where about a hundred of them of these tombstones, they are all sort of layered in towards the tree. It's so hard to describe.
Starting point is 00:26:11 It's like so, so the tree. Is the tree, because the tree fell down, is it? The tree fell down the tree. The tree fell down the tree. Oh, how's it fall? I saw it years ago, but it was like, the roots were growing over the tombstone. Yeah. It's almost like, give the illusion that the two sides were sinking
Starting point is 00:26:25 because like we're starting to grow over the top of the again short to be short. Yeah, so we're still not felled out. So what is it? A storm took it out but they've left, there's big fence around it at the moment, they're working out what to do in which way to restore it, but yeah, that is literally a bit of art slash architecture by Thomas Hardy, as you say, you saw it when it's full, full place. And God, just generally, by the way, what an extraordinary cemetery that is with such notable people. Mary Wollstonecraft is buried there,
Starting point is 00:26:51 who was the mother of Mary Shelley. And there's this story, which all academics think is almost definitely true. It's one of those ones where it's like, there might be a tiny grain of untruth. It's where she used to go and sit and read her mother's books against the tombstone. And it's where her and Percy Shelley first had sex on the tombstone.
Starting point is 00:27:07 That's the kind of thing they would have done. Yeah, but so. But so. It's not a smart. I think that's fair. I highly recommend it though. Of course you are, don't you recommend those awesome stuff. I mean, going to the cemetery.
Starting point is 00:27:24 Darn sex advice podcast. It's's gonna go down like a little bit. But also, incidentally, one of the people who were buried underneath, supposedly, all those tombstones, is the writer who wrote the vampire who was part of that weekend with Mary Darling. Oh, Poladori. Yeah, Poladori. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I shatter your illusions, though, about that lovely concentric circle, Gravestones and Tree? OK. Tree has nothing to do with him.
Starting point is 00:27:49 What? Yeah. Everyone calls it the hardy tree. There's no evidence. It was planted in his life, like, when he was in architects. There's no evidence. They think it was planted about 50 years after he died.
Starting point is 00:28:00 It only started being referenced in the fight. I just said he just made the circles. He made the circles. He, all we know, I'm pretty sure, is that he was indeed employed because he was low down the Architects firm. So the Architects said, could you dig up all these bodies? So he did dig up the bodies.
Starting point is 00:28:13 Yeah. And he, in fact, he remembered later in his life when they were digging out the bodies, opening one grave that had two heads and one body. And that was a fun memory for him. Oh. And he said some of them were just skeletons loose in the ground, some of them like crumpled up. He was taking them up personally. He was there overseeing it and other people under him were digging them up. Two heads, one body. Yeah, we don't
Starting point is 00:28:34 know he made this don't circle. We don't know he doesn't. He just let some gravestones. It just doesn't. The story has loosened the marker in fact. It's like a jetty like a natural phenomenon. Some poor person, probably a woman, came after and said, hey, it would look nice if we did this. And then everyone's gone, oh, it was too early, didn't it? It's such a classic. So, yeah. Oh, come on guys, how interesting.
Starting point is 00:28:55 Can I give you guys a quiz? Oh, yeah. Sure. So, we all know Tom Hardy. And we all know about Kiss Me Hardy. Yeah. And we all know about Tom Hardy, the Yeah. And we all know about Tom Hardy, the actor. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:29:06 So, which Tom Hardy, I've renamed these headlines all, so they'll say Tom Hardy, so that's not a click, right? Which Tom Hardy are these about? Yeah. Okay. Goldfish removed from Tom Hardy pond to protect newts. Which Hardy is that about? The actor.
Starting point is 00:29:22 Arthur? Arthur? Arthur. You're both right. Sorry, Dan. It's a bit loose calling him Tom. I've changed the headlines. I've changed the headlines, so they also Tom Hardy. So that's not to avoid being a client.
Starting point is 00:29:32 I see. Because people are going to say Tom or Tom. Yeah. Tom Hardy fuels James Bond rumors. Ha ha ha ha. Well, no, let's go back to when the first James Bond was written. Let's do the dates a lot. Flaming was a port there at the end.
Starting point is 00:29:47 I'm locking that in. OK. No, I'm so sorry, Dan. That's about the extra top one. I think. Last one. Tom Hardy wins due jitsu contest in Milton Keynes. I don't think it's any of them.
Starting point is 00:29:58 That's just a different bloke. No, it's the actor. He, last year, he just turned up in Milton Keynes. The Brazilian due jitsu open championship held just turned up in Milton Keynes the Brazilian jujitsu open championship Hell that a school in Milton Keynes And kicked everyone's ass he won champion. He was champion in his school. It was adults Went through year eight like a dose of salt no, he has a blue belt in jujitsu and and just destroyed Because quite intimidating if you turn up as he's Tom Hardy, you know, Ben
Starting point is 00:30:27 Yeah, no shit, Max Yeah, you're like to just wonder in surely you have to have entered an advance He did enter an advance, he registered He just registered like a normal like a normal person, you know I bet someone who works at that school who is organising the whole thing Red it went, it went, it went, that top Yeah He walked in like a fuck. Yeah, that's amazing.
Starting point is 00:30:49 That's terrifying. Do you know, I just want to bring up the second wife very quickly, Florence Doug Dale. So that was her name. She was an author herself, published author. And there was, as you say, huge age gap. Apparently they got really well though, according to friends who also said
Starting point is 00:31:06 that the first wife and Thomas didn't get on. She wrote a biography of him, and he didn't burn it. It was called the early life. Is that because he died? No, it's because it turns out he actually wrote it mostly himself. No, right. And it was published under her name.
Starting point is 00:31:22 So. Oh my God. Yeah. That sort of thing you do if your first wife released a book, say. In the Rebusage, then you go, Hmm, how can I protect my reputation here? LAUGHTER Isn't that a star of the show?
Starting point is 00:31:34 Yeah, that's a... That's a vibe. Yeah, yeah, because a lot of stuff didn't. A lot of stuff was burnt. A lot of his correspondence was burned. Almost immediately after his death, which has really vexed a lot of biographers, obviously, because... Yeah, right. So much burning of books went on back in the day, didn't it? Like, they were constantly burning books, so he burned most of his own diaries, I think,
Starting point is 00:31:51 as well as burning his wife's diaries. She burned, like, his second wife burned the courtship letters between him and his first, or I think maybe his first. And everyone was burning letters and books left right and centre. Why don't we do this anymore? I do. I do. I do. I said, if I had only left at last only laptop. It's a nightmare. All of your life diaries. There you were, Chris, I was in my car. I've heard in every book he's ever read. Paul Berra is obviously celeb Paul Berra is
Starting point is 00:32:19 very cool. Oh yeah. There's a modern version of it, I'd say, of like having lots of, well I'm not famous for being Paul Berra poor, but like something cool to do, which is, um, two pack, you know, this about two pack in two packs dead. Uh-huh. Then two packs gang members smoked his ashes. Oh, no way. As was requested in a two pack lyric, he said in the lyric, when I die, smoke my ashes, basically, in slightly slightly different words that I won't use. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got a question. Yeah. How can you smoke them if they're already ashes? Well, exactly.
Starting point is 00:32:48 Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he wasn't made of tobacco. Well, I did say smoke is remains, but I'm doubting this like an arm. I didn't know. I didn't say cigarette. You gave a very big fire pipe to get an arm into, wasn't you? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:33:00 No, it was ashes. I don't know, I guess they just... You just shot me in with... You just shot me in with... Mixed in with... Mix it in with... Mix it in, yeah. Yeah. And I'll just...
Starting point is 00:33:08 And I'll just say, yeah. Yeah, I don't think it was that bad. Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that the UK literally have fashion police. Quite literally. So, it turns out that one of the things, there's a lot of things that happen within police work with forensics and a very important bit of it is trying to identify when a body
Starting point is 00:33:42 might, you know, if you find a body, how long has it been there, diagnosing all that stuff, and one of the things that might help you with that is the clothing that the person is wearing. And so there's this fashion historian called Amber Bishar, and she basically goes around, and she worked for Beyond Retro, and she was a fashion historian, she liked to find where products were coming from, what point they were using certain materials, and so on. And there was a police forensic investigator who saw what she was doing after hearing her on a radio foreshow and thought, I wonder if that's going to be interesting for me in terms of trying to diagnose how all the body is or just give us a bit more detail. So that's what she does.
Starting point is 00:34:17 She goes around for the UK police. She'll go to a murder scene and she'll look at the exact fabric that they're wearing. And obviously, as we know, like, you know, if you were going to die today, you might be wearing old clothes from... I was going to say it. I mean, Andy's going to look like we're from the 50s because we just have never bought new clothes for ourselves. Yeah, that's the issue, right? But I suppose it just plays into a bigger picture of what they're doing. So there's one story which is a bit upsetting, but an old lady passed away and they found a body that was wrapped up in a branch.
Starting point is 00:34:48 She was able to look at the branch and work out exactly when the branch was from to be able to say so it must have been this year that the body was in there. And she does it, by the way, there's a lot of amazing archives of clothing. And one big one is M&S have a massive archive of clothing that she can look through
Starting point is 00:35:04 and find the history of items. Because a lot of Brits are going to be, you know, dying in M&S have a massive archive of clothing that she can look through and find the history of items. Because a lot of Brits are gonna be, you know, dying in M&S clothing. Sorry, I hope you one day. I don't see. I don't really mind when the day comes. As long as I'm in my trusty M&S. That's what people say, isn't it?
Starting point is 00:35:17 Yeah, it's like people often, you know, how they want to die, they often say, in my sleep or in my M&S cooking. You just find with me. Yeah, and we should add that this is also not a sponsor that we're doing right now. I reckon there's certain eyes are clothing where I could tell you when that person died.
Starting point is 00:35:32 Oh yeah. Buryed in a Von Dutch cap, I'm going 2001. Straight away. Lips, lips, strong band. Come on, you're getting a five year period. Yeah, okay. What about the cycles of fashion though, every 30 years? It could always be the B like, you know, it was last year or 31 years. So it has to be so, yeah, so it has to be something that hasn't yet come back.
Starting point is 00:35:49 Okay. Yeah, right. Oh, there's not registered. It's like, white guy dead in a Wu Tang 36 Chamber's top. Sure. 97.98. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Starting point is 00:35:58 So, I've always worn flares at some time. Well, I've confused the hell out of police at other times. It's perfect acceptable. I don't know what phase we're at. Now, are we in a flares phase? Yeah, we are actually. Oh, there we go. I think often she just goes, well, all the times. It's perfect acceptable. I don't know what phase we're at. Now, are we in a flares phase? Yeah, we are actually. Oh, there we go. I think often she just goes, well, what we have here,
Starting point is 00:36:08 it's a time traveler. Yeah. I recruited a bit of a help like this. I wrote to an expert. Val McDermard, the author, aka Queen of Crime. Holy shit, that's a clang. We thought the old curling team was a clang. Unnamed curling team.
Starting point is 00:36:26 No, I just... No, very slightly, and I just asked her about this kind of stuff. She's written a book, as well as all her novels. She's written a book about forensics. Oh, right. And she said that natural fabrics decay when you're buried, as buried in the woods, that kind of thing, if you've been killed.
Starting point is 00:36:41 But labels are usually man-made fibers, so they survive. So they can provide a clue if it's foreign, label or a designer label or whatever. So she says, if you're planning a murder, go for mass-produced cotton and snip those labels when it comes to dressing your corpse. Oh, it's a knife, it's very helpful. Right.
Starting point is 00:36:56 Thank you, Val. Yeah. That's good, because you can tell how big the person was, even if the whole body's disintegrated, right? You can still be like size eight. Size 14. This does feel like this story feels most like, you know, Netflix are on the phone buying the rights to this series,
Starting point is 00:37:11 surely of like the person who solves crimes based on labels. You're wearing, yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I think you went buying rights to this podcast, but it's just so far. They are available. No. And she's cool.
Starting point is 00:37:22 Amber, if you see a photo of her, she dresses like someone from Beyond Direction Wood, right? Like she's got like old school clothing. She looks like she could be in a sort of agatha Christy. She's your vintage detective. She could recall it. What the series?
Starting point is 00:37:36 Yeah, series called. Drop dead gorgeous. Drop dead gorgeous. Love dress. Yes. Brilliant. Oh, yes. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:37:42 All right, we've got two films. Yeah. Have you heard about this thing of the principle of interchange or the principle of transference? So one of the fathers of forensics was a Frenchman called Edmund Lockhart in Leon and his basic theory is that any two objects interacting will leave a trace. So when you commit a crime, you will leave something behind that wasn't there before, like a bullet in a person, and you will take away something that was there originally. So that's just like a founding principle.
Starting point is 00:38:11 So all you have to do is work hard to find those. Well, so you'll take away like a bit of dust or something. It's not like you always... Exactly, yeah, or a fiber on your shirt. No, a super neater shirt. No, it's a scoy gun on the finger. Yeah, yeah. But this, now, we are so good that that sometimes makes things difficult for forensics people.
Starting point is 00:38:27 So, for example, if I hug Reese and then I am murdered, Reese will have my DNA... Oh, sorry, my body's tested, it'll have DNA from Reese's clothes on it. Yes. Despite the fact he had nothing to do with it. So that suddenly means that he might have to be questioned or involved or whatever it is. So that's the extent to which forensnsics is a violence these days. It's so good now. You can recreate so much stuff. Yeah, so surely it's got to the point where it's so good.
Starting point is 00:38:51 Now the list of suspects is way too big and makes this way harder. So to be, is it sort of eating itself? It's sort of, yeah, like those detective closed room things. It's only like there's 5,000 people going to the room. Yeah, but they all want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously they've got good methods to winnow it down.
Starting point is 00:39:10 And you probably will be released for that charge after a day or two, Reese. But I don't know, I'll give up a voice. Yeah. I've got those sort of eyes. The most of them there. You've spent two hours with them now, so we'd all understand. I would be cool. I mean, I've got to, I've read about how cat hair is like one of the main things, right?
Starting point is 00:39:26 Like murderers who have cats get caught quite quickly because if anyone, if anyone got a cat, you know, you basically constantly have cat hair on you. Right. That's of everywhere you go, you're just, you're melting like a cat and cat hair is coming off. But then I have ginger cats, so you know, that's just the most visible one, basically. Yeah. But the police now go around, someone's murdered, they're now going around
Starting point is 00:39:45 everyone's house testing not only other people in the house, but their cats as well. You'll get an awful doll to say. Maybe that's a double match. You got you and your cat. Right. We're looking for a British short hair. Great fur.
Starting point is 00:39:57 Yeah. Do you know you can catch people by different prints that aren't fingerprints, various other prints? Tom? Tom prints on the U.K. Because that's individual. Although I'm not sure how many people by different prints that aren't fingerprints, various other prints. So, tongue prints are that you could, because that's individual, although I'm not sure how many people lick the murder scene before leaving. Oh, you said tongue, I thought I heard time, which time prints would be as well. Time print. Time print, do you leave a time print? Yeah, if you, if you, your mobile phone leaves a signal on the...
Starting point is 00:40:20 Oh, yeah, that's a lot of modern detective work. Is that a time print? Did he leave a time print? Well, I thought that's a lot of modern detective work. Is that time print? Did he leave a time print? Well, I thought that's what Risa and I was just trying to help. It's cool. I like the sound of this. Yes, if you punch in and out, you would at work factory. For every murder, you would at work. That's a lot of times that.
Starting point is 00:40:35 You know, you're supposed to have to check into a building to buy a record. There's the comments. Work on the way out. Um. Died lovely. Really easy to kill. He left the two star reviews.
Starting point is 00:40:48 It's terrible. That's a real crime. Crime goes, there's a lovely hotel. None of this is what I said. Um, Prince. Prince, Glove Prince. So,
Starting point is 00:41:00 Wow, what? That's the whole point of going in this context. No, really. First, what you hugged Andy on the way in, Andy wearing gloves, none of this can work. So, yeah, people can take glove prints, and because people think what you guys think,
Starting point is 00:41:13 which is that wearing gloves, I'm safe, they leave a lot more, they're much more cavalier than they are with fingerprints. But now there are various police forces that have made databases of glove prints, so if they can match it to another glove print, found a different place, then they'll know that it's the same person. Just fibers that come off the gloves or...
Starting point is 00:41:29 Yeah, from the fibers that come off the glove and the pattern that the glove makes on, you know, it'll make an imprint and even... That's so clever. And it's even, it doesn't matter if it's the same brand of glove that I'm wearing compared to you and me because I'll be doing different things with my glove to what you're doing with your glove and so it'll wear in a different way. Stop it. It's just nuts.
Starting point is 00:41:46 It's absolutely nuts, what can be done. Ear prints. If someone was caught in France by their ear prints because they'd been listening up against the key holes of lots of student halls doors. Wow. And you're probably, that's incredible. That's amazing.
Starting point is 00:42:00 Yeah. Yeah, footprint or a shoe print, I imagine, as well would be a thing. You would see a size 12 Adidas. You might have sort of mugs and stuff that you can stuff. Yeah, that's because that yeah, footprint or shoe prints. I imagine as well would be a thing You would see a size 12 adidas You might have certain mods and stuff that you can stuff. Yeah, but ear print. That's like yeah, eyebrow print or Me, you get a bum print What do you mean get it but what if you photo? Silphoto copy? You have a bum print. Yeah, I just wonder if that's ever been used
Starting point is 00:42:22 Sorry, sorry You mean if you put if you're the murderer, you have to put them there after something happened to the scene. They could go, oh, you know who's bomb that is. It's a classic calling card. Yeah, it is. The police line up for those.
Starting point is 00:42:38 Yeah. Don't around. I'm made to the side. Can bomb number two move around? Please. Have you, this is a very cool thing. Can button number two move around please? Have you, this is a very cool thing. Have you had a forensic ecology? Forensic ecology. This is a, a written interview with a woman called Rosie Everett.
Starting point is 00:42:55 She uses materials found in the natural world to solve crimes, right? So specifically micro fossils. Oh. There are these things called diatoms. We've spoken about them I think ages ago. Basically, their microscopic single cell algae, and she can use these, the presence of these, to come up with a profile of the soil in an area, which can then solve a crime. So, there was, there's a castle in Chateau called Beast and Castle, right, which is a protected area, and there were some metal detectorists, night hawks, dirt sharks, who'd gardened, nicked, arrow at like bronze age artifacts from the soil around there.
Starting point is 00:43:31 And when they caught, they just say, oh, we found them somewhere else, can't prove anything, you know, except for Rosie Everett, who came up with the profile of the soil based on the microscopic algae found there, approved. That's the soil they've been taken from. Oh, what a lot. Looked at the objects, I might not have had this soil.
Starting point is 00:43:48 Yeah, there's a bit of soil found on the Bronze Age artifacts. They'd neck from there and there's a bit of soil around the castle. Like just so. Wasn't one of the ways they caught Ian Huntley from nettle disturbance. Really? So nettles, he trampled nettles that meant that they were now growing outwards in a way they don't naturally. It sort of proved that he was there
Starting point is 00:44:05 in the woods at that time or something. Well, so his next generation, nettles still affected by the previous... Yeah, it's like months later they had grown in a certain, like, because they would've been, and then they went outwards instead of up or something like that, they was like, yeah. That's incredible.
Starting point is 00:44:18 That's mad. And slightly less, just quickly, so he was slightly less technologically advanced one of this guy I read about who got caught doing a crime after he got the crime scene very in a lot of detail tattooed on his chest. So he literally was like he'd like mode of someone outside a liquor store or something as if he got the liquor store like a painting on his chest with him doing the mode of the murder. The body says the name of his gang, which was Rivera.
Starting point is 00:44:46 He said Rivera kills above it. And it was like a revenge killing. And he had that on his chest. And one day the police were just like flicking through a book of gang tattoos. Apparently. And they were like, wait, that's that liquor store. We've been trying to figure out where they got
Starting point is 00:44:59 who killed that guy. That's that guy killed that guy. And then he was just trying to then. That's brilliant. We've spoken about in the past how the Yakuza would be busted because they all have very individualistic tattoos. If they're on the run, they might show up on Instagram, sort of like, you know, topless.
Starting point is 00:45:13 I mean, if you follow the Hound Side-O, okay? Yeah. And they'll be like, hey, that's him, that's the guy. Like tattoo spotting is a big way of busting criminals. Yeah. Did you say your one and you happened in Beeston? Yeah. Well, that was when we did our first book of the year,
Starting point is 00:45:27 there was a crime there committed, which was thousands of bees were stolen from Beeston. I wonder if she can solve that crime now using this new technology, maybe. Wow. I just, I'd sort of forgotten that. But as soon as you said we'd had it in our book, I thought, I thought, we've all been a story.
Starting point is 00:45:43 About bees won't it? That level we operate out. We put it on the back. It's'd had it in our book, I thought, with all of the story about bees going to the level we operate out. We put it on the back. It's the same with our burp. That was our leading fact. Stop the hot girl. Stop the podcast. Hi everybody, just wanted to let you know we are sponsored this week by Squarespace.
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Starting point is 00:47:05 and put in the off-code fish to save 10% of your first purchase of a website or domain. Do it. Do it now. OK, on with the show. On with the podcast. OK, it is time for our final fact of the show and that is Anna. My fact this week is that parents of newborn penguins take thousands of naps per day. Um, I'm just slackers.
Starting point is 00:47:31 Lazy, right? Yeah. To be fair to them, there's a few very short naps. These are Chinstrap penguins, so they live in the Antarctic and around South Pacific. And they, they were scientists studying them recently on King George Island and they found that they nap over 10,000 times a day But they only nap for about four seconds at a time on average But still they get something and I mean they managed to top 11 hours of sleep a day
Starting point is 00:47:57 That's insane amazing. It's basically really blinking. It's very basically every time they blink they do four seconds and fall Yeah, it's like when you fall asleep at the cinema or the theatre. And you have that kind of... Yeah, I'm trying to get that jolt. I've never left one of those occasions feeling noticeably rested. No. Despite doing that kind of semi-sleep. But I wonder if you had a thousand of them.
Starting point is 00:48:18 Yeah, true. Yeah. You just haven't been to a long enough play. Oh, how do you know? You know, he gave those those sort of rise and grind influences these days for all about, you know, getting up at 5am, doing a gratitude journal, you've got to like, circadian rhythm and all that stuff, you know,
Starting point is 00:48:32 you've got to get sunlight before coffee and all this. I mean, do you think if they read this pretty soon, everyone would be like, no, no, no, don't go to bed. Just stand there. I'm only four seconds at a time. No, you just feel perfect. You'd see it never asleep. We're doing never asleep. We're doing everything.
Starting point is 00:48:45 You're never asleep. You're never asleep. It'll become a thing. And so, yeah, and they go into deep sleep, which I'm not sure we're doing within four seconds, but they look to their brain. Wow, really? Yeah, so it's like a bungee jump into sleep and then back. You just feel so rapid to get that deep sleep.
Starting point is 00:49:05 But yeah, they go into slow wave sleep. They really rigged them up these penguins. It's amazing they could sleep at all. There was this researcher, Wang Yang Lee, who I think was leading the research. He said it was exhausting for them because they had to catch 14 penguins and they had to get equipment on their brains
Starting point is 00:49:22 to measure their brain activity. And then they had to get accelerometers to see how fast, to measure their brain activity, and then they had to get accelerometers to see how fast, to record their muscle movements, see how fast their muscles are moving and they're positioned, and then they film whether their head start nodding and then it's actually completely normal. So the patients actually sleep completely normally, but when they're manipulated by scientists, they can't sleep at all. I think so.
Starting point is 00:49:40 They do say this is probably serving the purpose of meaning that they can guard their young. So it's when they guard their newborn children because one parent will be off getting food, the other parent has to look after the kid. So it's like, so you never sleep for so long that the kid can get in trouble. It's like having a baby monitor. And they said it's probably because of that, but it could also be because you know penguins, when they're looking after their young, they hang out in these massive groups of just thousands of them and it's really loud and busy. Like these researchers said we couldn't sleep because it was just
Starting point is 00:50:10 so hectic there because so many penguins. These researchers are so complaining a lot about their own sleep. I have to say, because someone else is studying about something else. Four seconds I wish. But they said it could just be that the penguins can't sleep for longer than that. They might be able to see Veya as in a row, but it's just that they've been working out every four seconds. It's so noisy in bustling, yeah. It is crazy. There are lots of animals in the world that do when they've had a baby
Starting point is 00:50:40 forced into a position of just being awake. Like dolphins, for example, are awake for like a month, a full month. They just can't go to sleep. Cause they're, because their baby dolphins can't sleep. So they're just awake the whole time. So they're just following, yeah, for a month. And they basically, they just have to be awake. And with them, part of the dolphin not being asleep as a baby is, as they keep movement,
Starting point is 00:51:00 they're building up blubber, they're building up all the things that they need to make them into a bigger dolphin. That's like, and then after like a month or so, they all building up blubber, they're building up all the things that they need to make them into a bigger dolphin, that's like, and then after like a month or so they all start sleeping again, but the mum is just solidly awake. But don't they do the half of their brains at the time? So I'm not sure that's what I tried to find out, but I couldn't find anything that said they go to half asleep, because yes dolphins shut half their brain asleep. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:51:20 But as far as I could see that wasn't part of it. And as they go to the naughty the half. Yeah, I've got you know Don't have all bears, but don't polar bears do a similar thing where they basically just attach the children to them for the whole Time so the children don't really walk around following them like you see like elephants you see them following Mm-hmm, but polar bears is just like you see a picture of a new mom in the polar bear community There's just kids just like strapped I think they, yeah, I don't like duckies out of the poos.
Starting point is 00:51:48 But they're just like grabbing hold of them and they just have to walk around with that and then just do everything from there until they like to sit down against. So they just don't walk. Like tassels, you've got a lot of baby tassels. You know, 11 seals. Yes.
Starting point is 00:52:04 Which is a huge, great, massive, big things. Yeah. We got sent, actually, by Victoria Piedardi. So thank you for that, Victoria. Which is that sleeping elephant seals, they fall through the sea as they nap. So they are mammals. They do not have gills.
Starting point is 00:52:21 They can last up to about half an hour underwater, but sometimes they will just nap. And it seems like they just spiral downwards through the water of sleep. Wow. That's an absolute nerve. It's in my brain quite a lot. You gotta get to sleep.
Starting point is 00:52:33 You know, you jolt away because you felt like you were falling. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine if you woke up and you had actually your energy in the form to see it. Yeah, I'm just kidding. Because it is fast. They drop 400 meters in 10 minutes, which,
Starting point is 00:52:46 if you get that, it's like we're talking the highest buildings in the world. That's like the full height of them almost. And it takes quite a long time. You know, if you go to one of those skyscrapers, the lift takes about that long some time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're going that far.
Starting point is 00:52:59 If you wake up when you've only got three minutes of oxygen and let that's presumably quite stressful. I would have thought so, yeah. What's the protocol? What do they do? You can't really do that dad thing of faking that you weren't asleep on the sofa during a Sunday afternoon meeting. You don't have to add to always be like, I'm not asleep, I'm watching, I'm watching. I'm resting my eye. Dad, you're at the bottom of the ocean. Does anyone have you ever met Penguin?
Starting point is 00:53:22 Oh. Because I've got another client. Oh, here we go. Which of your winter sports were you taking part in with the Olympic team? Well, I did do the Skeleton, which is basically how penguins travel. Oh, yes. Did you?
Starting point is 00:53:36 They go, you know, it's like, had the head first one where you just put it in. Yeah, yeah. That was terrifying. Well, I did it. They train on just on a track. So just on wheels on a track rather than on ice. Right. And this is the context where, so there were penguins doing it. Is this where you were? I did. Obviously, it's just a track, on wheels on a track rather than on ice. Right.
Starting point is 00:53:45 And this is the context where... Because this was not the thing we actually think was just... Oh, this is just a bracket to tell you. I did. Yeah, you mentioned the original image. I can't believe Jason. I'm not a penguin in Australia, actually. Okay, right.
Starting point is 00:53:56 I can't... I was a child. They're all photos of it. But I'm trying to get my head around what it was, because from memory, it was like in our hotel. Like, where the various pools were. There was a different pools, but it was presented in a sort of like, go over to this section.
Starting point is 00:54:10 It was like quite a kid-friendly hotel. It was like, this section is meant to be the Arctic or whatever. And then in between two of these pools of the walkway, we're just like this bit where these penguins were. And they would do like feedings at a certain time every day. And you could go and hang out. And then I was a penguin favorite animal. I was obsessed with penguins as a kid It's penguin is actually one of the many nicknames. I tried to start for myself
Starting point is 00:54:36 That's a child in some communities And then like I got picked as the volunteer for this sort of penguin feeding and so I was like doing the whole You know, I was picked as the volunteer for this sort of penguin feeding and so I was like doing the whole, you know, I was chucking the fish. Yeah. That's right. It shook his fin. Should the penguin fin? Oh.
Starting point is 00:54:51 What do they have there? Wing, wing, yeah, wing. It shook his wing fin. It shook his fin, yeah. I got right. It shook his wing, yeah. That's lovely. That's very cool.
Starting point is 00:55:01 And now your DNA is on that penguin. And if it's murderous. If that penguin goes missing, I'm absolutely shocked. Yeah. My cat's also a suspect because there's your DNA is on that pen. And if it's murderous. If that pen goes missing, I'm absolutely fucked. Yeah. My cat's also a suspect, because there's definitely cat hair on that pen. Have you seen the penins at the zoo, the London zoo? No.
Starting point is 00:55:15 Oh, well, I recommend. I guess only they knew. Because you make them to us geographically. I don't think you can meet them as far as I'm aware. There was something about them, wasn't there, though? There was something, isn't there, isn't there enclosure? It's the only grade two listed.
Starting point is 00:55:29 Oh yes, it's got that amazing, we do it for the first time. I was in a Harry Styles video. I think that rings a bird. I think it was from the first time that enclosure that is grade two listed. That spiral thing in the middle is where the as it was video is filmed.
Starting point is 00:55:44 He's like stood on that thing and all these women are sort of circling. Are they dressed as Frank Goods? They're wearing toxido. I wonder what they did with the pet goods when they were filming that video. I know, right. I think the lot of people on the internet were wondering about as well. I mean, supposedly it's just the time when they weren't using it. How can they not be using the album that made you have an enclosure?
Starting point is 00:56:03 The album is called Harry's House. So it does feel like you might show it away. This is Harry's House. Harry's House. Get out. Yeah. Oh. Something that sleeps quite weirdly, it's spiders. Hmm.
Starting point is 00:56:15 And they actually are unique in the animal world, I think, in that they don't have the right body clock. Right. And with all, they're the only things we know about that don't have the right body clock. So you know we're all in the basically 24 hour body clock, although sometimes when people go and live in caves, they sort of stretch to 25 hours, or 23 or whatever, but mostly... So that was such a dismissive role of the island.
Starting point is 00:56:35 There's a thing that's personally inconvenient to you on more than one occasion. That's okay, you're always late. And it's waiting outside the cave. You've got the table for two. God's sake. So I'm circadian rhythm-mire. So mostly, even bacteria operate on a 24 hour body clock, but spiders don't.
Starting point is 00:56:58 And we don't really know why exactly. They're far up to up. So they have the shortest body clocks ever known. Some spiders have been found to have 17 hour body clocks, but this should really mess with them because spiders left their own devices and these are specifically trash line orb weavers, which sounds...
Starting point is 00:57:15 Slap. Yeah. I mean, rosin' it or what? They're actually cool that because they hide in their webs in a pile of crap. So they like will put dead bodies and feces and dirt in their web and then they hide in their webs in a pile of crap, so they will put dead bodies and feces and dirt in their web and then they hide amongst it. Wow, it's not dissimilar to my room.
Starting point is 00:57:31 That's how you catch flies. Anyway, they need to wake up at night and get super super active in the dark and they spin their webs at night time and they erect this big pile of trash to live in. And then the daytime spiders fall asleep still, which is why when you see them in daylight, they're usually just motionless. And then they go nuts at night in the dark. But it turns out, if you subject a spider to full darkness, it starts waking up and weaving its wig, where many hours before night would actually fall. So it wakes up like on the 17-hour mark rather than on the 24-hour mark. So that means up like on the 17 hour mark rather than on the 24 hour mark.
Starting point is 00:58:06 So that means they're constantly kind of jet lags, right? Because they're constantly, their bodies are going, hey, we've got to wake up now. And they're like, no, no, you've got to stay asleep because it's not night yet. And then night comes, and then they have to go to sleep and they're wide awake. But they manage to just reset themselves every day. Do they get cranky? Well, maybe that's why they're such bastards. And they're always eating each other and hanging out in the corner of the room to liberally scaring people.
Starting point is 00:58:30 Oh, I feel for them. That sounds very rough. Doesn't it? But apparently you can't catch up on sleep anyway, right? So there's a myth, the whole idea of like, I only got six hours sleep last night, so I'm gonna now have 10 hours sleep or whatever. It's a myth.
Starting point is 00:58:43 You're better off just having seven or eight every time. Oh, so you can't, it's impossible to catch up on sleep. You're always being a bit more tired. No, you're just keeping it. Yeah, so I don't mean it's impossible. God, this economy is probably impossible to catch up on sleep. I just mean that it actually makes it worse. Really?
Starting point is 00:59:02 So it's like, it's not a totally for the week where you're trying to guess. It's like, no, just every day try and get 7 or 8. I just not know how to try and improve it with. The way you put it in. Because the way to avoid being under slept is then just have 7 or 8 hours, rather. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 00:59:15 Because I assumed it was the other thing. Me too. And there's a ratchet and it only gets worse for your life. Yeah, exactly, but it's like there's a certain amount of hours you must sleep in your life. And if you're not getting to the total, like you're filling it in like one of those thermometer so you're not school, you're trying to get donations.
Starting point is 00:59:31 Well, you can actually trick yourself into thinking you've had more sleep, can't you? Remember we did that thing about the placebo sleep experiment that was done in America where they told people that they'd had more sleep than they actually had and they performed better in tasks. I always use this as the life hack to try and tell myself every morning
Starting point is 00:59:46 if I had loads of sleep if I haven't. It hasn't worked yet. All right. You need someone else to tell you that. In order for you to actually believe it, right? Yeah. Because you know, what if, yeah. How can you ever do that?
Starting point is 00:59:56 Because you know, if you're employing someone to do that, you would also know. Exactly. It was like, if your phone told you, I believe it. Yeah, those apps, sleep apps, you just lie. They should just lie. Yeah, those apps sleep apps They should just like Yeah, maybe they are lying because they wouldn't tell us would they because that defeats the object so Yeah, I bet if you have it and you work for the app it always tells you that you got loads Yeah, so that you're more productive in the day
Starting point is 01:00:18 Everyone else I think do you want? If they know from your phone that you work for a rival app Yeah, if you weren't the same phone They just go, sorry mate, that was terrible, you're not gonna say that. Oh, do you know what I'm talking about? [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OK, that's it. That is all of our facts.
Starting point is 01:00:38 Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course of this podcast, we can all be found on our various social media sites. I'm on Instagram, on at Shribaland, Andy. Oh, Twitter at Agronteram, Penguin. That's the app, Penguin. And all the forums and at Reese Jamesy on Instagram.
Starting point is 01:00:58 Yep, or if you want to get through to us as a group, where can they go, Anna? You can go to atnosuchthing on Twitter or you can email Yep, or you can go to our website, which is no such thing as a All of our previous episodes are up there as well as links to Club Fish and various other bits of merch. Do check it out, otherwise just come back again next week and we'll be here with another episode. And we'll see you then. Good bye. Goodbye.

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