No Such Thing As A Fish - 580: No Such Thing As Bin Day On A Nuclear Submarine

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Dan, James, Anna and Andy discuss Filipino kayakers, Norwegian tunnels and Chinese bubbles. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes.  Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon Get an exclusive 15% discount on Saily data plans! Use code [fish] at checkout. Download Saily app or go to https://saily.com/fish

Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing As A Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn. My name is Dan Schreiber, I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter Murray, and Anna Tyshinsky, and once again we have gathered around the microphones with our four favourite facts from the last seven days and in a particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that the first submarine to go around the world was only seen by one civilian, a Filipino kayaker who saw the periscope

and thought it was a sea monster. It's pretty amazing because we have a photo of that man. Yeah, did they take the photo? So we'll get into the big story, but there was a photographer on board and so anytime the periscope went up, they took a photo of what the periscope was seeing. And in this shot, you had a man sitting there called Rufino. Yeah. We also know more about him because National Geographic went out looking for him. They found him and interviewed him. And that's when they found out that he thought it was a

sea monster. He immediately went home and painted the names of Saints Peter and Paul on his boat for protection against the sea monster. Sensible. And by amazing coincidence, this submarine they're about to talk about started and ended at Saint Peter and Paul Archipelago in the Atlantic. It's incredible. What a coincidence. Yeah. They've blown it wide open.

Further evidence that we are living in a simulation. In a very unimaginative. So yeah, this is a 1960, we're talking middle of the Cold War. The Americans and the Soviets are not getting on very well, but maybe there's going to be a peace summit in Paris. But before they do that, the US decided to show off a bit and say we've got a new submarine that can go all the way around the world with no one noticing it. And so that's why they did it. It was called Operation Sandblast. They could just say they'd done it, couldn't they? But literally we sailed all the way around the world underwater without anyone noticing us. Yeah, but you're still here. That's because we went all the way around the world. Yeah, we just, yeah, finished. They just

should have, they should have sent it underwater and then just had it coming through a big tape at the end. Yeah. Yeah. But uh, they were really hardcore at Bright. So there were a couple of moments where it looked dodgy, where really they should have come up and they didn't. There's one instance where there was a member of the crew who had kidney stones and they did have to get him off the submarine sort of halfway through the mission and they fired him out of the torpedo team. Basically that might have been an option because what they ended up doing was putting up a bit of the submarine out of the water for him to be collected from it while keeping the main hull underneath. And they didn't know, like none of the crew out of the water for him to be collected from it while keeping the main hull underneath.

And they didn't know, like none of the crew knew what they were doing, did they? Until they were out at sea, undersea. There was just their captain, Captain Beach. Which is quite nice, given it was sandblast. Amazing. Yeah. And given that they were at sea, and the sea was surrounded by the beach. Yeah, and it's got a beach under it, arguably, as well. Well, let's discuss that, shall we? Where does the beach have to go? I don't want to go on your package beach holiday.

Yeah, exactly. I don't want to go for a picnic on the beach. Everyone, get your scuba gear on. But yeah, he didn't tell the crew until they were out seeing underwater. And I think the crew had just been told to prepare to be away a little bit longer than usual. And then they're going around the world.

Yeah, they were told to get all their tax details in order because it was going to go over the tax year. Really? Like, whatever you do, make sure you pay your tax because you're not going to be back in time for it. It's a good excuse though. It's a very good idea. I really like this. So the submarines these days, nuclear ones have their own way of making air on board. But this one didn't have that capacity because it was an early nuclear sub. It had to have its own, it had to have a snorkel basically. It would stick up the periscope and go, and then go back down again every night. I actually, honestly, this might just be a blind spot for me, but I didn't realize what

a nuclear submarine was. I thought nuclear submarine was a submarine that had nuclear bombs on it. I think because the British trade of ones are, that's why I thought they all were. I just want to say the missiles are tried at the submarines of vanguards. Sorry. Sure. But yeah, no, well it can be, aside with nuclear missiles on board. It can be, but by definition a nuclear submarine is something which is powered by nuclear reactor. And what that means is you can just stay underwater for way longer. And these days you can make your own oxygen using the nuclear reactor by taking in the seawater, separating the hydrogen and oxygen. And that means you could stay underwater for months and years. So cool. There are various problems with the fact that we can now have submarines

underwater forever, essentially. There are various reasons why you can't do that. So one, which is like all your clothes get so dirty in the end you run out and people get claustrophobic and upset. And another is rubbish. I didn't know what they did with rubbish. Oh, on this? On submarines. Oh, okay.

On sort of all submarines now. They bring on board lots of metal sheets and then they have a special machine on board that turns the sheets into a cylinder to be a bin. Because obviously if they just brought on loads of bins, they take up too much space. Yeah, yeah. So then they throw it in. Spaces are premium, yeah.

Spaces are premium. And then the bins all get secured once they're filled with rubbish. And then they just jettison them out of the submarine with weights on them to take them to the bottom of the sea. To the bottom. To the beach. To the beach.

Yeah. The people sunbathing down there are pissed off about it. It's crazy. Because the whole point of a submarine is that, I mean the whole game of being in a submarine is that you're being quiet and undetectable. And enormous efforts are gone to to make submarines quiet and undetectable. But if they're just pooing out metal bins wherever they go. But you're not going to see it.

Do you know that the ocean is, it's big Andy. No, I know. But the whole thing is, I mean the amazing lengths they go to not to be spotted. Well then can I just say about the bins? Given that you've raised the issue. Oh my god, you sound like my neighbours. What day do they go out again? It's Tuesday this week, it's a bank holiday. Some people on submarines say that they're so careful about not drawing attention to themselves that eggs, old eggs they haven't eaten, are pre-broken before they're put in the trash disposal unit. Because if they broke after being released, they would generate enough sound that they would be detectable.

What? That's how sensitive some other submarines are to noise. Really? Other submarines are constantly, yeah, they don't, they don't- They can hear an egg break? They can, they absolutely, it's so quiet down there. I've just, it's not that quiet under the water. There's tons of animals down there. It's pretty noisy under the water.

How about the engine running the submarine? What are they doing about that, Lies? That's very heavily buffered. They put, you know, the egg boxes, they put them around them. No, it is nuts how quiet they are. And so, for example, bubbles. They put their bubbles through a diffuser to spread them out before they release them. Oh wow.

Because otherwise there's a big plume of bubbles at the surface, very obvious. Oh, there's a submarine down there. Is that like if you feel a big fart coming and you somehow manage to let it go out in a very slow little... It's exactly like that. And spies, MI5 spies are trained to do that. Just a case. They're the only ships that fly Jolly Rogers, which I should have actually phrased as what

flies a Jolly Roger? Submarines. I've screwed it up now, yeah, but if you hadn't done the research and I hadn't just said that, what would you have said? Well, I've known that for years. But if you weren't a QI researcher. I just can't imagine a world where I wouldn't have found that out by now. I have a question.

Yeah. It would be quite soggy. Trying to fly a flag underwater. That's a good point. would be quite soggy. I'd fly a flag on the water. That's a good point. They display it flattened. I guess they fly it when they come up in triumph. So I think traditionally if they've had a triumphant sojourn, what do you call it? Expedition? I don't think they call it sojourn. Yeah. I think they're pretty sure in most wars they go, subs, you're going on a sojourn into the

Baltic Sea now. It's amazing. There's no space on the submarine because most people are wearing cravats and the number of cigarette holders you have to have on board. It just takes up loads of space. And then the actual battle itself is called the Box Social. Whatever they're called. Mission.

Yeah. Good mission. When you come back and you've had a good one, you fly it, fly the Jolly Roger. If you've sunk somebody else. I think if you've sunk someone else, but now I think they quite often do it because sinkings happen very rarely these days. And it's because it's a like middle finger to firstly Lord Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson, who complained in 1901, as I'm sure you'll remember, that submarines were underhanded,

unfair and damned un-English. And then in 1914, someone sunk someone else in the war, the great one. And they came back flying the Jolly Roger to say, screw you, you think we're underhand and piratey. We have so many correspondents in the fish inbox, fin box, about nuclear submarines. Almost all our listeners seem to be on nuclear submarines. It's stunning. I didn't know the wifi was that good down there. Amazing. Yeah. They must pre-download it before they take the plunge.

Good point. Yeah. What are they telling us? Any state secrets? We've got some secret correspondents actually. Tim, I'll say Tim W writes, it's okay because his friend's brother is learning to operate a nuclear submarine, but you should not flush the loo at sea. Why? Well, there was once a U-boat that was sunk because they flushed it, it was Colonel Schlitt. That's it. Yes. And yeah, the whole thing went down.

So that's a good reason not to do it. But basically you shouldn't dump fresh water at sea because it has a different sonar signature to seawater. It refracts sound waves differently and so it shows up as a massive blob. Oh come on. Gives you away. Gives you away. But why don't they just keep samples of different ocean water that they are travelling in? That gets put into the cistern whenever they...

Because space is limited. No, that's a good idea. That's a really good idea. Well, actually, it's quite interesting. I didn't realize this about oceans. This story of the submarine going around the world has taught me this. That four days after they were thought to be a sea monster in the Philippines, they were going in the Lombok Strait and then they were making their way into the Indian Ocean. And then out of nowhere, they plunged from periscope depth height to 125 feet in 40 seconds because the density of the saltwater is different in the Indian Ocean than it is to the Lombok Strait that they were coming through. Nuts.

Hang on, it's not like there's a wall there and they hit it and suddenly drop it like on the ice cream. I feel like it is. I think it is because it came out of nowhere that they just plunged. I have a feeling that when you go from one ocean to another you do get those quite solid blocks between them. Really? Yeah because they're such different densities they can't mix.

Isn't that wild? It's crazy. I have a riddle for you. The first people to successfully escape from a submarine did it in 1851. It was called Le Plongeur Marin, a marine diver, and it was operated like a pedalo. So there were three crew, two crew on the pedalo bit cycling along, and then one bloke was captain. Anyway, they sank in a test dive in Keele Harbour, and they waited five hours for someone

to rescue them. No one came. There's an escape hatch, but they can't push it open because they're underwater so the water pressure is too much. And then the captain who was the inventor and he was a guy called Wilhelm Bauer, he grabbed a small valve, unscrewed it and whipped it open so water started coming in and his crewmates were like, what have you done? You've gone mad Wilhelm, you're going to kill us all. Why did he do it? Is it the same reason as if you hold a straw, the top of a straw and then put it in water,

the water stays in there because it releases pressure, which means then there isn't pressure holding the door closed? Yes, because what does the valve do? It lets water in from the outside. So as the water came in from the outside, then it equalized the pressure. So suddenly you've got water inside as well as out. So there's a really horrible moment where you all have to hold your breath as the whole thing fills up with water and you're suffocating to death because the CO2 levels are so extreme. And then suddenly it hit the pressure equality and it went pop open and it fired them up onto the surface in the middle of their funerals.

What? Yeah, they were doing an impromptu service because it had been over seven hours. Pretty quick. I'm sorry, I would like more efforts to be made for me. He's been in that toilet 20 minutes. Should we have the funeral? That doesn't make any sense, Anna. The wives are with their new partners. They were having a service. They assumed they were dead. Not that the coffins weren't out yet.

Have you seen the other way that you can escape a submarine if it is sunk? You disguise yourself as an egg. I know this. No, what are the lifeboats of a submarine if it is sunk. You disguise yourself as an egg. I know this. No, what are the lifeboats of a submarine if it sinks? Like smaller submarines? Torpedoes? No, it's a suit that you wear. It's a life raft, but you're in the life raft. You're on the raft. And you have a picture Homer working in the nuclear power plant with that big helmet on,

but it's all fabric and he can see through a window in his face. It's... You could have just said, picture a Haskem suit, and there's no need to bring the Simpsons in. That's another way, a more bland way of giving the picture to the audience. So you go out of the submarine and you slowly rise, and then you're just bobbing up there, waiting to be rescued. I think a lot of the time if you're stuck, you're stuck, right?

Yes. It's not foolproof this. I think almost, it's almost never that you can get out. We have one other person right who actually was a sonar operator on a nuclear submarine. This is so cool because with sonar, right, what you can do is, it lets you count the number of blades on a propeller. So you can guess what kind of ship something is by your knowledge of the propeller. Because you fire your sonar at the propeller and sometimes it hits and sometimes it misses.

Pretty much. And then you can make an educated guess as to the kind of propeller and therefore what kind of submarine you're observing. So the whole game is to cover up the propeller when you're in a public port for secrecy. So no one knows how many blades you've got on your propeller in case someone spots you.

And this, I should say it's a diesel electric submarine as well, so it's slightly different. But it's for sneaking around the Norwegian fjords and for that kind of stuff. And I love this. I'm just going to read this. The snorkel has a valve at the top that automatically closes if a wave goes over it, right? The snorkel bit. But then when that happens, the diesel engines suck loads of the air from the rest of the submarine, and that means the air pressure drops. So it really hurts everyone's ears on board. But what that then means, if the air is moist, the air spontaneously condenses and it starts raining inside the submarine.

Because of the pressure changes that have happened. So he says that's an amazing experience. Wow. On propellers, this is going from memory, so it might be wrong, but I think it's right. There was an episode of, I think, Doctor Who, where they needed a submarine. They got this model of submarine and they looked at the propeller and it was exactly the same as one of the most secret submarines that the UK had. And the UK defence were like, holy shit, where did they get the designs from?

That's absolutely ridiculous. And they brought these people in to question and said, shit, where did they get the designs from? That's absolutely ridiculous. And they brought these people into questioning and said, well, where did you get it from? And it turned out they'd been to Woolworths and just bought a tiny submarine and used it. And just by coincidence, it had the exact same specifications as this British nuclear submarine. Oh my god. That's amazing.

Stop the podcast. Stop the podcast. Hi, everybody. Oh my god. That's amazing. Stop the podcast! Stop the podcast! Hi everybody, just wanted to let you know this episode of FISH is sponsored by Squarespace. Yes, Squarespace is a place to go if you want to build your own website to tell the world about your greatest interests and passions. Yes, so let's say I wanted to tell the world about cheese. I wanted to tell the world about it, I wanted to sell cheese. I want to have a cheese vlog.

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a website or domain. That is right. As Anna says, squarespace.com forward slash nst AAF. That'll give you a free trial and when you're ready to launch use that offer code nstAAF and you will save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Okay, on with the show. On with the podcast. Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that the original Little Mermaid production was almost delayed because

all of their underwater bubbles got caught up in the Tiananmen Square incident. And tell me, Dan, what exactly was the Tiananmen Square incident? For all of our global listeners? It was a sojourn by the Red Army. This is quite a surprising fact that The Little Mermaid, which was the last entirely hand-drawn and hand-coloured movie that Disney was producing, decided that rather than photocopying drawings of underwater bubbles, they would have each individual bubble, millions of them, drawn by hand. And they couldn't do that on their

own so they farmed that out to a company that was called Pacific Rim in China. Great film. Great film. And the offices of Pacific Rim happened to be right next to Tiananmen Square. And when suddenly all the chaos broke out in Tiananmen Square. And when suddenly all the chaos broke out in Tiananmen Square, all the protests and all the military coming in, the bubbles were still being drawn and they were locked up in a safe there. And the producers didn't know whether or not they were going to be able to get them out. They didn't know how long this was going to last.

And they're so fragile bubbles. I mean that will pop at the slightest week, won't it? Exactly. And it'll give away their location if one goes off as well. If you look carefully a lot of the bubbles in the little moment are actually eggs that have been just up to the edge. But they did manage to get them out of the building. They got them onto a ship. So it's quite interesting that to ship their bubbles back over to the states and then they made it into the film. But it's yeah. If you look at the film, so I was watching lots of clips and once you know this, there are shed loads of bubbles every time they move, there's bubbles all over the shop. To be honest, like that's one of the best things about the movie is the way they animated the water.

Yeah, it's very good. And it would have been worse, I think, if they had done the photocopying. Agreed, agreed. Because it was quite interesting. So it's the Xerox process, they called it, which is a bit like photocopying, but for animation and for film. And they should have used that because that's what people had been using. I think the last film to use the hand-drawn method was Sleeping Beauty, which was ages before that. But when you photocopy stuff, it gives it a black outline. And this was so interesting because if you watch any Disney film

that was Sleeping Beauty and before, so like Sleeping Beauty White Pinocchio Bambi, there's no black lines around the cartoons So they're all like realistic like I'm wearing a yellow jumper. There's no black line around it There's just yellow jumper then air and that's if you watch Sleeping Beauty You'll see that every film after that has black lines around the cartoon So they look more cartoony and less realistic and if you do want to sound like a big old snob you can just say is a very inferior period of animation for Disney before they fixed it and sweetly that was for Beauty and the Beast they brought the beauty back. The co-director of The Little Mermaid John Musker said because he was interviewed about the

what what the bubble the bubble thing yeah and he said yeah no we cared about the guy in front of the tank and that democracy might take root there, but we were wondering what's going on with our bubbles? In the next paragraph he reveals he was joking. Because this was an incident where, well, there was loads of protests in China, pro-democracy protests and the Chinese government went in and killed a lot of people. James and I, you and I met Kate Aidy who was there at the time and the footage that- The Little Mermaid premiere. Yes. Wow.

She's always been hard hitting but I had no idea. Right in the thick of it. She's bubble obsessed. She was there and the footage that was taken, I think James, am I right in saying it's particularly the footage of the man standing in front of the tank? She had to get that back to a British embassy and she had some Chinese guards trying to take the camera reels off her so that she couldn't get through. So she ended up kicking one of them in the nuts and climbing over a wall in order to get into safety. And yeah, so that's how we have the footage. It was Kate Adich. I didn't know that.

I believe that's right. That's certainly what she told us. Yeah. Just a fact for Dan about that. The Simpsons. They have an episode where they go to China and in the middle of it, there is a picture on Tiananmen Square. It says Tiananmen Square on this site in 1989, Nothing Happened, which is obviously about the fact that references to it are banned in China. But then Disney decided to omit that episode of The Simpsons

so you can't watch that in China anyway. Really? What's the Disney film that they made about a mermaid? Little Mermaid, Andy. The first Disney film about a mermaid was Splash. You didn't say, you didn't say, specify first. Yeah, you didn't. You just said, what's the film?

Oh, what was the first one? It was Splash. Daryl Hannah. Daryl Hannah and falling in love with Tom Hanks. Who wouldn't? Walking out of the water with her bum out. Yeah. I was a teenager when that came out.

That must have been formative. I think they've re-edited it, so she's got longer hair now. So I'm afraid, James, the next time you want to see Darrell Hannah's bum, you'll have to do it some other way, basically. Because yeah, they've, as it relates to do that on the internet these days. I don't believe so. No, yeah. So they made Splash way before they made The Little Mermaid, like five years before. They were trying to make films for grownups and this was their first one. You know, she's a bum age, Tom Hanks is a man

and they fall for each other. But we've all seen Splash. It's the story of the little mermaid. I can't believe you're leading with that rather than the fact you just dropped in that they've extended Daryl Hannah's hair in the modern version to cover her bum. Oh, they didn't give her a hairy bum. They extended it. I'm misunderstood. You didn't say which hair they extended in first. Yeah, they've extended her back hair to cover her bum. They've't say which hair they extended in first. Yeah, they extended her back hair

as a cover, but yeah, they extended her bum hair and then they plait it into her head. The British Board of Film Classification have some things to say about the Little Mermaid. In the additional issues section of their website it says, in one scene a female character comically shakes her bottom while singing about the importance of body language in attracting a man. And what's the issue there? Not woke. I had a look at a lot of other Disney movies on the BBFC to see what their additional issues are. In Frozen, there is some very mild humour, including reference to picking your nose and eating it.

Which is offensive to you children. It's on there. Wow. In Brave, there are moments of mild rude behaviour, such as a Scotsman bearing his behind by lifting his kilt. Well, they've extended his hair since then. And in Honey, I Strunk the Kids, which was also a Disney movie, there are upsetting scenes when a friendly aunt is killed.

So just beware. This is someone's job. Wow. Because there are those terrific Christian websites which do this kind of forensic detail. This is on the BBFC. Wow. I quite like how they did Ariel's whole look, because Darryl Hannah played a part in how Ariel looked as well.

So she is the little mermaid, right? Yeah. So Ariel is the little mermaid. Splash had come out, and so they changed her hair colour, Ariel's hair colour, to red, because the original hair colour was too similar to Darryl Hannah's. So that had a very immediate influence on their movie. The actress, Alyssa Mil Milano was the face model for Ariel. There was a different body model who they had come in, who was a comedian improviser

who came in and would do all the scenes. So you can see the footage of them doing the scenes so all the body movements would be involved. Is that Sherry Stoner? Sherry Stoner. Well, there are hardly any people alive with the body of the little mermaid, are there? There was actually very little competition for that. You're right. There is half of her body. A lot of her material is a stand-up, is about the fact that she has a massive tail.

Yeah, exactly. But the most interesting one is the hair and how it moves in the water. And that was inspired by the space shuttle astronaut Sally Ride. They looked at her hair in zero gravity to create the water look that they needed. So yeah. Someone who gets a lot of shit is Sebastian and the Little Mermaid. The crab. The friendly Jamaican crab. Ah. Under the sea. What's Sebastian's accent? Jamaican.

Jamaican. Incorrect. Caribbean. Well, I mean, you just broadened it, so it's not fair. So Sebastian, he was originally going to be called Clarence and he was going to be like a posh English guy. And they made a good moot because you can imagine he's really strict, that Zazu type character. You can imagine why they wanted to do that. And then they thought let's make him more fun. So they decided to make him Jamaican. But then they found the person to

play him Samuel E. Wright, who'd just been in a film playing Dizzy Gillespie. And Samuel E. Wright couldn't do a Jamaican accent, but he could do a Trinidadian accent. So actually, tell everyone you know, he doesn't speak with a Jamaican accent. He speaks with a Trinidadian accent. Because a few years later, when they made Cool Runnings, they brought in these four Jamaican actors and they said, okay, can you do these lines? And they said, well, you don't sound Jamaican. And they're like, well, we actually are Jamaican. This is how we talk.

And they're like, no, no, we need you to sound like the crab from The Little Mermaid. No way. James, we've pieced it together. It's amazing. The producer basically said, if you don't sound like Sebastian, I'm going to get fired. So they all put on these kind of like fake Jamaican accents. That's amazing. Wow. Okay. So the reason that the crab was made Jamaican, let's say Jamaican, despite the accent,

was the songwriters were working literally in the room next door to the animators and each other were influencing how the movie was going along. And one of the songwriters came in and said to the filmmakers, tell me about Sebastian the crab. They said he's this British posh guy. They said, can you make him something more Caribbean? Can you make him Jamaican? Because I think this song, Under the Sea, will be great as like a calypso style song, and the accent will go great with that. And they changed it for that reason, because they were working in tandem together. So if you find a VHS of the Little Mermaid and it has a drawing of the penis on the cover, it could be worth up to £30,000.

Really? And it doesn't work if you just get one and you draw it on yourself. Is that true? This is true. I thought this was sort of urban myth. There are miffy parts about it. So there's a guy called Bill Morrison, who was drawing all the artwork, a little mermaid, he's doing all the different things. And they said, can you do the VHS? And they said it really last minute. And it was the middle of the night and his deadline was just

coming up there. And he just sort of scribbled something together. And it had to look like this sort of castle in the background. And castles have turretsrets and turrets can look phallic sometimes if you're not concentrated. Your penises all have crenellations. Yes they do. Okay. How do you think we fire arrows out of them? Where do you think the boiling oil comes from?

So he rushed to do it and then he made this thing and no one noticed it. So was it deliberate? No, no, that's the thing. It was just, yeah. So the myth goes that it's some pissed off employee of Disney who put a penis in there to piss everyone off. Right. In actual fact, it was this guy who was doing his best and just happened to accidentally

draw a penis in the thing. And then it basically came about that someone noticed it once it had already been printed and Disney were furious. They're normally so relaxed about this kind of thing. that someone noticed it once it had already been printed and Disney were furious. And they said- They're normally so relaxed about this kind of thing. They said if we find out who did that they're never gonna work for us again. And this guy's company was, this was most of their work doing stuff for Disney. So in the end you either kind of pretend that you don't know anything about it or you say look it was us but it was an accident

and that's what they did and eventually Disney sort of realized that us, but it was an accident. And that's what they did. And eventually Disney sort of realized that it was an accident and they carried it on. Carried into it. Imagine the Dick Mountain ride at Disneyland. What very, very, very steep up and very, very, very steep down the other side. And Bill Morrison, one for Dan, he left this company and went to work for the Simpsons where he did some drawing for them. So there you go. Is that why Homer Simpson's head also looks like a penis? This was about bubbles in The Little Mermaid in Frozen, which is another princess movie, obviously not bubbles, but snow, snowflakes, stuff like that. And there is a thing,

Dan, which I'm sure you know about called the Dyatlov Pass incident. It's a conspiracy theory thing about a load of kids who went walking just outside of Katarynburg. And disappeared, doesn't mean anything. They disappeared. And we never know what happened to them. And last year, thanks to Frozen, we might have found out what happened to them. And that's because the technology they used to make the snow in Frozen was so amazing, like the computer programs, that you could use that to work out what happens with avalanches.

There was a scientist called Johann Gaum, who was from the Snow Avalanche Simulation Laboratory in Switzerland, and he saw Frozen, he thought what they're doing is amazing. And he went over and he said, can I borrow your technology to show what happens with avalanches? And he tried it and using the lie of the land in Dyatlov and stuff like that, he showed that it was possible that these kids might have been taken away by an avalanche as opposed to a yeti or aliens or whatever everyone else thought. Wow. That was Frozen.

That was Frozen that did it. Cause I thought you were going to say the other sort of wild theory about Frozen is the reason that that title was picked for the movie was to stop everyone from spreading the idea that Disney was frozen cryogenically. So if you went on Google and you put Disney frozen, you get the movie now as opposed to Walt Disney's head. Walt Disney's head has been frozen cryogenically. That is a theory out there.

Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is Andy. My fact is that the longest road tunnel in the world is so long that the builders recruited a team of psychologists to stop people crashing halfway through. So this is a tunnel called the Laerdal tunnel in Norway and it is 24 kilometers long. So what's that? 17, 18 miles? It's long. Yeah. It's long. It's been over 25 years now and it helps people drive between Oslo and Bergen. And it's partly because Norway is so crinkly and it's hard to get around and the man is perilous crossing

the mountain passes in winter. So you know, you either need to fly little distances in small planes, which is a big way of getting around there, or you drive. But this allows you to drive much straighter because you're in a tunnel. That's how tunnels work. It helps good skips through as well. Completely. Yeah, all of that.

So it was a very impressive engineering project. But do we know the effect of the, like what they said and what happened? Oh yeah, that's the important part. They were consulted on how people can drive through this tunnel and not go crackers because it's 20 minutes of the same lighting, the same panels passing you, it's hypnotic, you're driving... I'm already going crackers just from you saying that. You've crashed into the wall, James.

There we go. You've hit the wall. And no radio signal. Can't get radio full in the middle of a tunnel, can you? Always the annoying thing about tunnels. That's true. It's like being in a nuclear submarine, basically. You should pre-download before you go through the tunnel.

Pre-download before you go through. You've got to talk about this pre-download thing. So the shrinks, basically, they were like crack team of shrinks were called in and said, oh, yes. And they said. They were the people who were originally cast to play Sebastian. they were like crack team of frinks were called in and said, oh yes. And they said, they were the people who were originally cast to play Sebastian. They said, well, you've got to break it up for people. You've got to make it feel more varied. I'll be honest, Andy. I think without any psychological training, I reckon breaking

things up so people don't get bored is pretty rude one. Like this bit of me speaking. And you've just helped to do that by breaking it up so that people at home haven't crashed themselves. That's what this book is, is us breaking up Andy's monotonous words. Okay, that's enough Anna. Okay, let's do another five kilometers, Andy. Thank you.

So basically there are these mountain caves, as they get called, strategically placed along it. And every five minutes you get to another mountain cave, the lighting all changes completely, the road opens out and it looks like you're driving into a sort of beautiful mountain pass. It looks like there's daylight above you. It's really gorgeous. I think it looks quite tri- I would feel like the drugs had kicked in as soon as I got to

certain bits of it. It's like Avatar in there all of a sudden. It is a bit. It's like you're in an aquarium. Like you're in the actual water with it surrounding you. It's like mountainous-y, dark blue, trippy as hell. I would want like, because you're expecting a tunnel. I'd go into that tunnel and suddenly you're not really in a tunnel anymore. I agree with that and that would freak the fuck out of me. You've had a lot of tunnel already. You're filled to the back teeth with tunnel. What you want is a bit of variety. I mean, I don't

think I don't think people frequently go do lally halfway along the tunnel. So it clearly works. It is a good idea. And I think one of the reasons it's a good idea them doing this is because for the longest road tunnel in the world, not many vehicles drive through it. So a thousand vehicles a day. So basically the chances are you're going to be driving through completely on your own, which is what would freak you out. Right? Like if you're going behind a bunch of cars, it's fine. Have you ever been driving and like a place which is so the same that you think maybe I have died? Yes, I have. I have done that. Oh my god. Drive. I was

driving down the coast of Croatia and there's all these inlets and you kind of go on an inlet and you come back around again and you drive for a bit and you have another inlet, another inlet, another inlet and they're almost all identical. And after about two hours of that, you're just like, maybe I have died. Maybe one of these times I missed the corner and I'm doing this forever. It's fractal. Do you have that thing when you're driving where you sort of come to and you realize, oh, I just drove half an hour there. You know, and then your conscious mind reasserts itself

and you're like, oh, and you've got a bloody knife next to you on the... And there's bags full of money in the boot. But not that bag. Oh no! I once, in fact more than once, when I worked in an office as an accountant, would sort of come to at the desk and not remember how I got there. Like as in I just sort of, I got up, got out of the house, got dressed, drive the car all the way to the office, sat down, started work without even realising. Yeah, yeah. Promise. Yeah. Yeah, I see that. Have you ever woken up midway through a fact on fish?

I'm hopeful it might happen eventually on this. It's called highway hypnosis. And people noticed it all the way back to 1921 when it was called road hypnotism. And basically what it is, is even when you're looking at something, your eyes are making very slight movements all the time. Like your, your eyes are always like darting this way and that and whatever. And normally they're a response to something that's happening outside as a bird go past or whatever. But what happens when you're driving for ages is your eyes start to go in this sort of predetermined pattern. They start, they're still moving, but they've moved left, then right, then up, then down, then left, then right, then up, then down, and whatever. And the thing is they don't really alert the brain properly. The brain starts thinking

that not really anything is happening. And then you start losing concentration. So you should roll your eyes around and around and around. Well, you should take a break. Or have something, just watch something on your phone. That's another... As long as you've pre-download This tunnel in 2000, I love this. Someone got married in the middle of the Laerdal tunnel. Did you read this? It was a young couple, young Norwegian couple and the groom was called Ronnie Linda. And he said that his mother-in-law had attended the wedding, but she had been slightly skeptical about it. And I just love this. He said, she's scared

of two things, dogs and tunnels. We've recently bought two Alsatians and now we've got married in the tunnel. And I would say maybe the psychologist should have gone there too. Another thing they have in this tunnel is a rumble strip in the middle of the road. The idea is if you're driving along, you slightly veer off to the middle, you hear it rumble, it wakes you up. These things were invented in 1955 by a guy called Harold Griffin, and they were originally called singing shoulders. That's better. But they cause a 44% reduction on head on fatal crashes if you have them on a road.

These are US figures. Wow. They should be the same in most countries. So head on collisions are hugely caused by falling asleep or losing concentration. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. And there are large areas of Michigan with no rumble strips. So most places in America, they have to have them now on highways. But there are large areas of Michigan with no rumble strips. So most places in America they have to have them now on highways, but there are large areas of Michigan with no rumble strips. Pourquoi?

Why? Ooh. There's no double-lane roads. That's good. In Michigan? No. They have to transport something which is delicate, like eggs, to the market, and if they hit the rumble strips they break all the eggs.

All of our eggs with you. And they're happy to have a full head on collision as long as they don't break a few eggs. Is that actually weirdly more eggs get lost by the rubble strips than in the full collision? Yeah, I know. It's a certain group of people who didn't want them. The Amish. The Amish. Who the Amish? The Amish, yeah. Or Amish. The Amish. Who the Amish? The Amish. The Amish. Or Amish. Never, in my knowledge, called the Amish. Really? Do they not like rumble strips?

It's the horses. The horses don't like them and they refuse to cross rumble strips because it makes them hard to set their feet down because of the way that they're moving. Really? You can step over them. I mean, they're not that broad. Yeah, but the horses just don't like it. And so there are certain areas... I was trying to do a rumble horse name. That was really good. Didn't come out right.

It worked if you saw it though. What you're doing with your lips there. So in any location in Michigan where horse-drawn buggies utilize the roadway, you're not supposed to use shoulder corrugations, which is what they call them, unless a crash history exists. Right. London has a new tunnel. In the week we record this... No.

Yeah? Have you guys been reading about the Silver Town tunnel? No. What? No. Oh, it's so good, it's great. It's just next to the Blackwall tunnel, which is very very traffic-y tunnel in London, basically. It has to shut down, I think 700 times a year it gets shut down, because the traffic just

gets too crazy. Right. So they've just opened another tunnel next to it, but bikes can't go along it because it's for cars. So they're running a sort of bike bus for it. But it's very, it's amazing how they built it. So you know TBMs, Tunnel Boring Machines? Okay. The one that built this tunnel was called Jill, after Jill Viner, who was London's first

female bus driver. And they wanted two tunnels, right? Because it's really big. Stop yawning, James. They wanted two big tunnels, right? Normally it's really hard to build two tunnels with the same machine, because turning it round down there is a bastard. You know, it's really difficult.

So reverse! Just get some wing wearers on there. Or don't they famously come out the other side? Didn't they? Sorry to interrupt, but for the channel tunnel, I think the boring machines, they just kept boring down. They sometimes do. Buried them under the ground. Sometimes they do, yeah. So this one, they wanted to use it again. They wanted to get good use out of this machine because it's a massive factory, like it's huge underground thing. So they put it, I just love this, on nitrogen skates.

They put it on compressed nitrogen, like some skates which rest on compressed nitrogen, like a hovercraft. And that allowed them to turn it round in a special underground chamber and then go back the other way. They must have had to build a massive underground chamber. Because these things are up to 170 meters long. So I don't know what that chamber was like, but it's crazy. Yeah, they are awesome. And I think they do like to reuse them now. They break up them up into little parts, because every one is like the width of the tunnel

that's specifically made for that one tunnel. So you can't really reuse the whole thing, but you can take it apart and use it. But yeah, in the olden days, they did random shit with it. Like as you say, in the Channel Tunnel, one of them was just like buried. Another one in 2004 was- So crazy. I can't wait for archaeologists to find that. That's going to be a great day for them. So they literally just changed its directions and it bore its way down to the bottom of

the- I think it's going to come out in Australia sometime soon. It's going to split the world in half. I think it actually went into more of a lay-by. Oh. It is buried on the. Yeah. And then they bricked it. They bricked it up.

It reminds me of that really sad Thomas the Tank Engine episode where they bricked one of the engines. Henry. Henry. He's very sad. Why do they do that? He's been naughty. Oh, wow.

He won't come out in the rain. Anyway, we'll save that. But there was another one in 2004. One of the TBMs using the channel tunnel was sold on eBay. There are obviously loads of prank bids, but then it was actually sold for £39,999. What was postage and packaging? That's such a good question, Dan. You've hit the nail on the head.

I never thought I'd say this, but if only the buyer had been as smart as you are, because he bought it and he signed the contract and everything. And then they got an email from him who was called Stedenum, according to his name. Guess how much it was going to cost him to collect it? I mean, an insane amount of money. Sorry, he paid how much for the thing? He paid 40 grand. Which is a bargain?

Is it? For a big tunnel? Machine? Yeah. Second hand. Vintage. That's a really nice car secondhand. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or you get a machine that could dig a channel. I don't think they're that roadworthy. But yeah.

Okay, what was... It cost a quarter of a million pounds to move it. Wow. So... And can you back out on that sale? Sometimes they're really strict on eBay about... You can't back out of the tunnel even. You can't do anything. Stop the podcast. Stop the podcast. Hi everybody. Just to let you know, we're sponsored this week by Saley.

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It is time for our final fact of the show and that is Anna. My fact this week is that walking backwards is healthier than walking forwards. Wow. With some caveats, like don't do it at rush hour on a main road. Don't do it through a railway tunnel. Through a railway tunnel. This is just sort of a raft of stuff that's come out in the last 20 years, I guess, about the various advantages, most crucially burns more calories.

So like the metabolic cost of walking backwards seems to be significantly higher. I think the first study was in 1995 that found this and it found the oxygen intake and heart rate of the various, I think it was 27 subjects increased between 38 and 119% walking backwards compared to walking forwards. Okay. I have to say, I'm not massively surprised by that, given that for 2 million years we've been evolving to walk forwards. Doing something hard is harder than doing something easy.

I agree. It's like doing press ups constantly is harder than just lying there. But that's because I'm involved with this lie there. You might as well say that walking like a kangaroo is healthier than walking like a human. Basically, doing anything really difficult that feels unnatural is better for you. I think a lot of this stuff makes perfect sense because it's doing stuff that you're not used to doing.

This is why it's often used in rehabilitation for things like osteoarthritis. Let's say you've got knee problems because you put too much pressure on your knees, you go for runs, you're walking on tarmac a lot, you start walking backwards, suddenly you're putting pressure on different parts that your quads are taking a lot more pressure or if you've got plantar fasciitis in your heels, oh my God, it's a pain, isn't it? I feel for you. But if you start walking backwards, then you don't have such an impact on your heels. Did anyone do some walking backwards for this?

I did 15 minutes in my garden. Did you? 15 minutes? That's a lot. Yeah, well, I couldn't be bothered doing any research. I meant to say you look fantastic today. Thank you. Well, you should see my heels. So how was it? Well, to be honest, I didn't really see much difference in the 15 minutes I did. Apart from, I would say it works slightly different muscles in my legs, like my Achilles

probably and my calf that normally wouldn't feel it after 15 minutes walk, I could feel it. Also your neighbors all think you're a witch now? Yeah. No doubt. I did, because quite a lot of my neighbors houses overlook my garden and I think they probably think I'm a bit weird. They already know.

Yeah, I'm sure you've done worse things in that garden. Where did those bags of money come from? But it's quite good. I read a few articles where it said that backwards running, as opposed to backwards walking, is quite good in warming up if you're an athlete because it uses slightly different joints and tendons as you would normally do. Also there was another person, an orthopedic specialist called Nicole Haas, who in one of the papers she said that actually one of the main things is it's using your brain in

a slightly different way. Yeah. Because like one of the things you is it's using your brain in a slightly different way. Yeah. Because like one of the things you're doing quite a lot when you're walking backwards as I know is working out where everything is and what you're not falling over because my garden is not very big and I had to do lots of laps of it to do 15 minutes. Yeah, right. And all the time you're thinking where did I leave that barbecue? Yes, yes.

Well next time you do it you should do what a man called Patrick Harmon did when he took on a challenge to walk from San Francisco to New York, which is he walked backwards, but he had installed near the front of his chest a car mirror so that he could see everything that was behind him. I mean, it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? He said it was good for him. So he did this in 1915. It took him about a year.

Yeah, 290 days in total. About a year. And... A big chunk missing from the whole year. The bulk of a year. I'm really looking forward to going to your 60th birthday. It's gonna be when I'm 52. And he claimed that it had made his ankles so strong, it would take a sledgehammer blow to sprain them. So he clearly felt some kind of benefits.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that he could see that 1915, did you say? Yeah. Because there was a guy called Plenty Wingo, who's he's the one in the Guinness World Record Book because he walked 8,000 miles from Santa Monica to Istanbul. So a bit further, but I think he believed he was the first person to come up with it. Twice as long. Just to... when you say a bit further. And almost a year.

A bit further. Well, fact checkers, right, but today... Yeah, yeah, more than that, actually. You don't want us doing down the backwards walkers, do you? They need to get there just as early. Some respect, please. Plenty Wingo. He lost his business. In the Great Depression. In the Great Depression. I'm so excited about this.

We're going to be seeing lots more of this kind of great stuff soon. So you're right, we're topical. Limber up. He had the idea because he was listening to his daughter, his 15 year old daughter, her birthday party, chatting to her friend saying, everything that could ever be done has been done now because it was this age of stunts. We've talked about flagpole sitting before everyone was sitting on flagpoles and then crawling up mountains, pushing peanuts up mountains with their noses. And he said, not everything's been done. No one's ever walked

backwards around the world. And then he thought, bugger now, I've said that I'll have to do it. And he tried to do it. And he got us first Turkey. And then they kicked him out and told him to go home. I don't think he did make his fortune. It's very hard to tell. He didn't. He's pretty sure he didn't. They said when he got to Turkey, they said he had to leave the country for his own safety. I think the idea was that people were throwing things at him. Yeah. I'm surprised you got as far as that. Apparently, according to one article I read about him, he was in New York City walking backwards and he agreed to walk backwards along the top ledge of a 12 story building in return for money.

And then loads of people paid him to see him do this and he did it. But the guy who was working with him and collecting all the money off the onlookers just did a runner and took all his money off him. Forward or backwards runner? Well if you're walking backwards it's hard to catch anyone isn't it? It is. That's crazy. His wife left him.

Mrs Wingo. Oh no. I mean I understand why she did it but even so. He was still walking backwards for decades. So in 1976 he appeared on the Johnny Carson show, one of these American talk shows saying I'm doing it again. And he claimed he was going to do another sort of round the world thing. I think that suggests that he didn't make his fortune the first time.

I think it does, sadly. There is a profession who walked backwards maybe more than any other. Maybe I'm not, I'm not certain about this, but it's a good, I think it's a good... Photographers? Oh nice! Yeah, that's good, that's good content. I was reading a paper about sports people and they said rugby league players, handball athletes and soccer referees do a lot of... Yes!

So football referees was the one I saw. I think there's, is there not a famous one, I think we might have even mentioned it before, about at the White House, it's people who are doing the tour guides, they walk backwards to other places. Pentagon I think it was. Yeah. Where they have to memorize where like the corner is so that they can go around it. Why?

Is it so they keep an eye on people? Yeah. Oh. Just get the mirrors. Get the mirrors, exactly. But I've trained as a football referee and for sure as part of the training they teach you how to run backwards well. Or they don't teach you but they just say, make sure you know how to run backwards.

I used to do it quite a lot I'd say when I was a nipper. Yeah. Or running backwards or refereeing. Was that avoiding the wedgie as they chased you? Okay. Okay. Okay. You can't be wedgied that way round.

They could be a front wedgie. The front wedgie is horrible. It makes it look like a Disney tower. There's another group of people who are becoming expert backward walkers in recent times, and that is celebrities. So Taylor Swift spends a lot of her time walking backwards so that she can avoid the paparazzi taking photos of her. Is it so that they can't sell the photos because they're trying to sell them as photos of her walking forwards?

Now as in the paparazzi stood in one particular place, you need to have your back to the paparazzo so that they can't see your face. I saw a quite recent news article about her walking through the woods, right? Yeah, she went and did a whole mountain trail basically walking backwards so that the paparazzi couldn't get shots of her. Yeah. It's back overhead she should do, back overhead and holes for the eyes. That's a good idea.

Yeah, absolutely. I don't, but someone's walking backwards. So she's walking backwards towards the paparazzi who are facing her. Let's say she's come out of the building, there's paparazzi waiting outside, she faces the other way to get in the car. But I would film that and that's like, they could be anyone, could be anyone with blonde hair. Oh please, I'd know Taylor Swift's arse, anyone.

Okay. I wouldn't even recognize her face. But there's an amazing woman called Justine Galloway, who I think we might have mentioned in our sports book that we happened to write semi recently. She's a runner. She's 44 and she used to run loads of marathons. And then in 2011, she was running her third Boston Marathon and she got really good times. And she suddenly her left leg started staying up in the air too long, sort of swung out to the left a

bit and it just wasn't working properly. And she basically got what is called runner's dystonia, which is a bit like the yips in golf where you just suddenly kind of can't do it. And within a few weeks, she couldn't run at all. It's like this weird neurological issue where your brain and your body will not connect at all. And she was obviously devastating like running with her life. And then she realized if she ran backwards, she was fine. Crazy. And now she's got the world record for running a half marathon backwards. Does she do mirrors? Or does she do? She does mirrors. When you do a half marathon with her, does she start at the end? No, to the start. She passes everyone halfway. Yeah, she gets moaned down in the middle. So it is a competitive sport. Yeah. I mean, there

are all sorts of records. There aren't many full races of people running backwards, but there's a guy called Aaron Yoda, who's the world record holder he is. Runs backwards, but there's a guy called Aaron Yoda, who's the world record holder he is. Runs backwards, speaks backwards. He's got, he's done a mile and five minutes 54 seconds backwards, which I'm sure is faster than I could do a mile for sure. So walking backwards, right? Imagine you're walking backwards and stuff is happening in your peripheral vision. Some people are better at noticing those things than others. Only if you're walking backwards? Only if you're walking backwards.

Can we guess this? Is it like... It's like football reference. Scottish people. It's a class of people. I'd be astonished if you went to that. Is it a profession or a nationality? It's a hobby group.

Oh, is it like bird watchers or a nationality? It's a hobby group. Oh So like birdwatchers or yeah, but not in spotters not them think of a hobby that's slightly more noble people might do I mean tunnel boring machine What was the normal hobby something that cool people might do slightly more cool people than you, is people who play video games. Oh yeah, those jocks, those bloody jocks. So there was a study that was done. Are they cool? Sorry, can we question? I was just thinking cooler than boring enthusiasts.

On a par for me. I actually was thinking I'd love to write a film script set on a tunnel boring machine. I just think that'd be a really cool set. Like a really slow version of speed. We gotta keep going at 0.25 miles an hour or she's gonna blow! So the thing is, right, they wanted to find out do people who play video games have better perception and especially people who play, you like first-person shooter games okay. So they tried that and they realized that actually people have equal perception. If

you Andy and someone who plays video games are walking straight down a road then you equally can see things in your peripheral vision. But for the people who play video games when you're going backwards they have much better perception and that's because in video games often often these shooters, they are moving backwards. Like when you move backwards on your joystick, your character is so easy to do. So they're seeing that quite often in their day to day hobby, whereas we hardly ever see it because we hardly ever walk backwards. That's cool. I thought you were going to say it so that you had a peripheral view on seeing whether

or not your mum came in to tell you to stop playing video games. Oh yeah. So you just built a better... So video games are prolific wankers. Nature's joystick. Okay, that's it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course

of this podcast, we can all be found on our various social media accounts. I'm on Instagram on at Shriverland. James. My Instagram is no such thing as James Harkin. Andy. One blues guy at Andrew Hunter. Yeah. And if you want to get to us as a group, Anna. You can go on Instagram to at NoSuchThingAsAFish, Twitter at NoSuchThing, or email podcast at qi.com.

Yep, or you can go to our website, nosuchthingasafish.com. All of our previous episodes are up there. You can get a link to merchandise, to our live shows. We've got a gig coming up in Sheffield in July. Come and see us there. Or join Club Fish at a steal. £2.99. While stocks last.

While stocks last. We have lots of bonus episodes up there. Ad-free episodes as well if you want that. Do check it out. Otherwise, you just come back here next week. We'll be back again with another episode. We'll see you then, goodbye.