No Such Thing As A Fish - 592: No Such Thing As A Cat In A Muumuu

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Dan, James, Anna, and Andy discuss feline ads, Egyptian irons and the Hammer of the Scots. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes.  Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

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It's an amazing exclusive place where you get ad free episodes, lots of extra content, all sorts of stuff. And if you go to no such thing as a fish dot com you can find out how to join today. Okay, on with the podcast. Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing As A Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn. My name is Dan Schreiber, I am sitting here with Anna Tyshinsky, Andrew Hunter Murray and James Harkin. Once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days and in no particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is Anna. My fact this week is that ironing in Egypt is traditionally a man's job and they do it

with their feet. Yeah. And that's why you shouldn't let men do the ironing. Do they put the shirt on the ground or do they put their foot on the board? Yeah. And also, do they use an iron or do they have really, really flat feet? Hot flat feet. Well, it's in the desert, right? You just stand in the sand for 10 minutes until your feet get warm.

Absolutely. That's it. No, they use an iron, a normal iron. So these are people called the Makwagi, and the Makwagi regal are specifically the foot ironers. Makwai means iron, and it's been going on for hundreds of years, and on every street corner you'd have a man who does your ironing, you take your ironing to him, it's passed down from fathers to sons and traditionally

was done with feet so you'd have a big heavy iron. I read one reputable source saying that the irons can weigh 40 kilos. What? 40 kilos? I know it doesn't seem plausible does it? Do they lift it with their feet? They just push it. They just push it. And they look like a classic old iron, so they're just an iron that's heated over coals or in a stove, right? Like a big metal iron. They're not plugged in.

Not plugged in, having got that little water button that you press or the steaming option. Dan trying to pretend that ironing is a man's job in his household as well. I think, I could probably say we all know I iron non-stop. Dan is an obsessive, Dan and Andy actually, I feel like you spend half your lives ironing. It's quite sad. But it's not sad when these guys do it. I'm sorry. Can I just say that I don't just let my wife do all my ironing.

I just like to be creased. In answer to your question about the spray, this is one of the coolest things. And I was going back to old 19th century sources when people visited Egypt and reported on it happening there, to spritz the garment so they're a bit wet, they spit. And so now these days I think- Terrific. Does that cost extra? There are accounts of the real pros, the real traditional ones, having just a continuous spray constantly coming from their lips.

But if you were walking the streets looking for someone to do your ironing, and presumably there might be a bunch of competition, what you want to see is just one old guy dribbling like crazy, and that's the one you go for, right? That's the best version. How did this industry fare during COVID? That's a really good question, and I forgot to investigate. Actually people used to spit on their irons in the UK as well.

Really? Yeah, yeah. So we're talking from the 17th century onwards, we had something called sad irons and sad meant solid in those days. So they were solid irons and they're kind of pretty much, you know, like when you play Monopoly and you're the iron, it's, it's that kind of thing. So again, it's just like a piece of metal. You put it in the fire until it's hot enough and then you would use it to iron things and to find out when it was hot enough, you would spit on it.

And if the spit sort of laid and frosted around and spat around on the iron, then you knew it was ready to go. Interesting. Oh, you don't want it too hot, presumably, because then you burn your clothes. Yeah, absolutely. As well as the sand iron things, there was slug ions, which I like as well, where you have a slug of metal, literally just like an ingot of metal that you put in the fire for ages and you draw it out of the fire and shove it in the iron.

That makes it that makes it hot. There were rough ions. It's a thing called a goffering iron, where you could iron fabrics into a scalloped edge. So you know all those amazing Elizabethan roughs? Yes. They had to be ironed into place, basically. I do your first level ironing, which is I just want things flat and uncreased, but there is an art to ironing where you do put in these ruffles, you do put in the line on your trousers. I aspire to be there.

You'll put a crease on a shirt sleeve, though. Yeah, you might do. You've got to have a crease on the shirt sleeve though. Yeah, you might do. You gotta have a crease on the shirt sleeve. But here's the thing, back in the day ironing wasn't just for getting your clothes to be uncreased. It was the cleaning as well. So there's reports of, let's say during the Crimean War, there's a report there where cannonballs might be heated and used as a makeshift iron. And it wasn't so that people went, you know, I want to look uncreased when I'm going into battle. It was because you would have things like lice living on your clothes that you want to get rid of.

So it was burning it off basically. So it was doing a double job. It's very hard to aim it correctly for an ironing job. So it just gets the ironing right. It's a difficult method. Can I ask Dan, as the only other ironer in the room, I suspect, another question about this. What's your opinion on wrinkle-free shirts? Sorry, James, I mean, James is wearing a collared shirt now and it looks actually very nice. No, no, I just, I've never really ironed any item of clothing

since I left a proper job about 25 years ago. Fair enough, fair enough. And I live in hope of getting a proper job. I'm constantly heading to interviews, so I do need those shirts ironed. So what was the question again? Would you wear a wrinkle-free shirt? Like a non-iron shirt? Because a lot of shirts sold these days are non-iron.

I definitely wore those when I was at university, for sure. It was the one thing if I went to a menswear shop, I would look to see if it would need an iron or not. Really? Yeah, and the clip-on tie as well. Stop angry colleagues strangling you. That's very helpful. I was standing at university when we went clubbing, we didn't always wear ties. How were you let in? Ridiculous. You borrow one from the bouncer. He opens his jacket, he's got a big rack of ties in there, and he picks one that goes with your complexion and shirt.

Yeah. No, but so non-iron shirts are made with formaldehyde or they certainly used to be. They've been treated with a special chemical which means that they don't crease which is very clever. But they make you need to do poo right? We've talked before about how formaldehyde makes you need to poo. That is true. I think the good thing is that the formaldehyde is locked into the shirt so actually it doesn't do you any harm as the wearer but the people who made it, people who worked in the non-iron shirt factories, they all got quite sick I think. Right. Really? I think there's a higher proportion of cancer in people who worked in those factories than in the general population. Well they don't sound like good resins that get

used to them. I don't know whether they've ironed out these problems yet, but from what you're saying James, it sounds like there might still be, that might still be a thing. The study with this of the instance of cancer was 2009. Okay. Yeah, ironing basically. Okay, so let's say you've got a cotton shirt. It's made up of loads of fibers, chains of cellulose, and when you put it in the washing machine, the cellulose goes a bit wonky and it comes out and it's all creased. And the ironing works by loosening these cellulose threads, and when they're loose, when they're nice and warm and relaxed, then they can get into a line, you press them down and they'll stay in that line. That's

how it works. But the non-iron ones, the formaldehyde basically locks those celluloid fibers in place. When you join the army, if you go to Sandhurst, which is a very, very posh British army academy. It's Prince Harry's place, wasn't it? Yeah, probably went to Sandhurst. You have to carry in your own ironing board. Really?

And I asked a friend of mine who went to Sandhurst, and he said, yes, you do. Of course you do. Interesting. You gotta bring your own ironing board. Could you not share an ironing board between a barrack? And I asked a friend of mine who went to Santas and he said yes you do. Of course you do. Interesting. You bring your own ironing board. Could you not share an ironing board between a barrack? There's simply so much ironing to do. You've got so many different kinds of uniform as

a modern heroic action man type. Okay yeah. And because they don't have so many cannonballs in warfare these days. You can't just wait for it to happen naturally. I wonder if they're bulletproof or if like the the fabric is Kevlar. You can't just wait for it to happen naturally. It's very hard with a cruise missile to get a really crisp line on the track. I wonder if they're bulletproof or if the fabric is Kevlar, because that is a fantastic defence shield that you could double up an ironing board with. It's basically human sized, isn't it?

It is. That's a human sized shield. You're suggesting people wear their ironing boards into battle. Are we not talking about the front lines here? We're just talking about back of the barracks. You don't need to. Here's a really British thing that I'd never heard of before that used to happen in the past with ironing. Some homes, and we still know a few examples of these homes, had a room for ironing newspapers.

Oh, fantastic. And this was- That's the dream. That is the dream. Yeah, I read about this in Bill Bryson's book at home, and it was featured, I think, in Downton Abbey, but the idea was before the master of the house would be given the newspapers the butler would take it into the ironing room and they would iron the newspapers not for creases but to make sure that the ink becomes dry and solid into the newspaper so they can

wear their white gloves as they're leafing through the newspaper and not worry about ink smudging on them. I didn't know that was why it was I think I honestly always thought it was to make the newspapers nice and flat for the posh people. We should say ironing's at risk. What? Sorry? Ironing's at risk, big risk. Right.

What? From the youth. Oh yeah, the bloody youth. 30% of 18 to 34 year olds, many of whom may be listening, don't own an iron and never do any ironing. What do they do instead? I don't know. They do like me just be wrinkled. I think so, yeah.

And they will claim things like their clothes don't need ironing. They don't! Oh, mine don't and? I don't know. They do like me just be wrinkled. I think so, yeah. And they will claim things like their clothes don't need ironing. They don't, mine don't and James's don't. Honestly, I would always wear mine flat. So what I would do is I would wash my shirt and then just before it was dry, then I would start wearing it and my natural body shape would flatten the shirt.

I mean, clever. You want it to have the shape of your body, you do. Exactly. I mean, that's the point, isn to the shape of your body? You do. Exactly. If you iron it to an unrealistic standard of a completely flat person, which is not what any of us are, it's gonna crease. My whole body is actually creased.

When I'm naked, I have these terrible creases all over. That's a good idea. Although a better version would be to put it on someone whose body you aspire to look like, so that when you get it back You can feel what you want to eventually Not in your body can iron itself into the shirt exactly. Yeah Speaking of nightclubs. Oh, yeah, as I was I am in boards are good for DJs. Let's say you're an aspiring DJ

Yeah, you're going to a house party You've got your decks, but you don't really want to bring a big old sort of like all this, all the stand. So what do you need? You need something that's flat, but also you need it to be a very certain height. And yeah, you don't want the decks to be up at your eye level or your knee level. But yeah. And the good thing about ironing boards is

they're adjustable. Yes, there you go. That's so cool. So you look at interviews with DJs and they say oh yeah my first ever DJ gig was on an ironing board. That's so funny and if you pop some, pop a pair of pants under the decks by the time your set's finished they'll be lovely and crisp. Actually probably the heat of the decks. Might do it. Yeah. That'll, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you think in the future they'll be looking at these ironing boards and saying, did you know these used to be used for ironing?

Before they became... When everyone's a DJ. On the DJ boards, yeah. There is actually a guy called DJ Ironing Board who built his rig that fits perfectly on a normal ironing board and he does festivals and stuff. That's awesome. Oh, wow. But I mean mean you've got to be careful, so many times when I'm mid-iron you hit the little handle underneath that sends the entire thing down. You don't want that.

How do you do that? I've never experienced that. Happens to me non-stop. I've never done that. No one else? No. Can I give you another use for an ironing board? Yeah. If you want to be Pope. Okay. Quite neat. you another use for an ironing board. If you want to be Pope, well, for instance, the most recent guy who was Pope was Robert Provost, Pope Leo XIV. And as a child, he played at

being a priest by using the family's ironing board as an altar, according to his brother. So he would get the ironing board up, he would get a load of biscuits, and then put them there and his family would come round and he would give them a Kit Kat and say, body of Christ. Really? Are you serious? Absolutely. And again, you can alter the altar as you're growing up. Alter the altar. Amazing.

So it's all good. I mean, they must have thought he was on a, that was a pretty long shot when he was a kid doing the Kit Kat thing, but that's incredible. Like they're laughing on the other side of their face now, aren't they? He works in mysterious ways. This is good news for the world of ironing, because actually the last pope, Francis, actively announced that ironing needed to stop in certain homes.

So there was a question about all these Italian kids that weren't leaving home, and what do I do to get my son a job and get him out of the house? And the pope said, stop ironing for him. And that was like huge consequences. Like mums overlooking. Exactly, why would he leave home? He's got his stuff being ironed every day by you,

you're mollycolling him. And an interesting thing to focus on is Pope, but you know, they focused on worse I suppose. Turns out they're all obsessed. Another great world leader who did a spot of ironing in her day, Margaret Thatcher. Really? Even after she was an MP she would iron her husband, Denis's shirts in Parliament. Not on the floor of the House of Commons. Just on the dispatch box. There is a desk there actually, isn't there?

I think it's wooden. I think that would be very bad for it. You're right. No, there was a ladies room was a time when there were fewer female MPs than there are now, so there was a need for women to have like their own space empowerment. And it had an ironing board in it, and she frankly monopolized that iron. I thought, well she was a fan of monopolies. Yeah. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. That's the best thatch riding monopol I think you'll hear on any podcast this week, this week, but if you listen to off-line next week, history's masterpieces wouldn't be the same without their most notable accents. Neither with the Kia Sportage without its multiple drive modes, the Kia Sorento without its expansive 12.3 inch panoramic display, or the Kia Telluride without its

three rows of spacious seating. The 2025 Kia SUVs. Kia, movement that inspires. Call 800-333-4, Kia for details. Always drive safely, limited inventory available. Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is Andy. My fact is that 900 years ago, England beat Scotland in a battle with an earth horn super weapon, which scattered the Scots by frightening their cows. Lot to unpack. Yeah. What's an earth horn?

Glad you asked. It's not a common thing anymore. This was Word of the Day on the OED website the other day. Highly recommended. If you're listening to this, just go over to the Oxford English Dictionary website and see what the word of the day is. And this is earth horn. I think this was the first and maybe last time it was used. Yes.

It's Hapax Liguminon. Yeah. As in there's only one mention of it in the whole of literature. So it didn't take off basically this earth horn like secret weapon, whatever it was, seems to have been a big horn despite working apparently. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. The other thing to say as well is it was only mentioned once and that was in 1338 and it referred to a battle that happened in 1138.

Okay, so it's like the 200th anniversary of this battle. Finally we're going to uncover this secret weapon that we used. No one's mentioned it before now. And again, it's not completely clear from the OED source why frightening the cows was a key factor in the end of the battle. Okay, well give us everything we know about it then from the description. No, we definitely should remember about this battle. That's it. A thing called the Northorn. We don't know anything about the Earthhorn, definitely.

We don't know if it was a sound. I mean, horn implies it. And do we know why Earth? Is it made of Earth? It comes from the Earth. I can't stress enough, this was 900 years ago. As James says, first recorded 200 years later for the first and last time. We really don't know much about it

Uh-huh. This is my challenge fact for the week As I said, it happened in 1138. So what was going on? What was going on was a thousand years of conflict between England and Scotland on and off but quite a lot of on so I What I found was the earliest battle recorded between Angles and the Scots slash Picts that was in 596 AD. Wow. And the last battle between England and Scotland as completely independent kingdoms was when

was it? That was 1547. This particular one that we're talking about the Battle of Northalleturn also known as the Battle of the Standards. This was that time when Henry had died, Matilda was maybe gonna be our queen, Stephen was maybe gonna be the king. There was a whole load of conflict about who was gonna take over,

and the Scots were on the side of Matilda, and a lot of the barons in England were on the side of Stephen, and so there was a big old battle because the Scots wanted to help out because Matilda was the daughter of a Scottish kick. I read that this battle took place on Cowton Moor. Jesus.

Is that interesting? That is interesting. Moor. Do you want to say that again? Cowton Moor. You didn't want to stress the cow part. Well, that was obvious. The moo was going to be a bit more difficult.

No, I think that's really good, Dan. I just didn't notice that. Given there were lots of cows at the end of the battle. We talked about this when David Mitchell was on the podcast. This era we did, yeah. If you've got your English history, kings and queens ruler, it's the bit that goes, Willie Willie, Harry, Steve. It's the Steve bit of this, King Stephen.

And if you've got the ruler that goes all the way forward, and just to emphasise how much the Scots and English didn't like each other back then, and obviously it's all water under the bridge now, but between 1040 and 1745, 33 out of the 36 English monarchs either invaded or were invaded by Scotland. Which is strong! It's a strong record, isn't it? So it's a long old skirmish.

Although, it could have all been avoided, or the worst bits could have been avoided, Which is strong. It's a strong record, isn't it? So it's a long old skirmish. I know. Although, it could have all been avoided, or the worst bits could have been avoided, if it weren't for just a small diplomatic cock-up. So the worst phase, and with all the famous battles like your Bannock Burns and your Mel Gibson's, was the 13th and 14th centuries, and that was the wars of independence. And it all kicked off when Alexander the Third of Scotland dies in 12 early 1290s and there are these two guys John Balliol and Robert Bruce who was the grandfather of the famous Robert Bruce Sorry was one Robert the Bruce and the other one was just Robert Bruce? Yeah, there was his middle name. Yeah. You sometimes got to slip that in there to

differentiate. So no there was a guy called John Balliol there was a guy called Robert Bruce. Robert Bruce there was a guy called Robert Bruce. Robert Bruce's grandson was also called Robert Bruce. He's the famous one who, for bad reasons, we now call Robert the Bruce. I think related to the fact that he was Robert the Bruce. His brave heart for anyone who knows that movie. This is Mel Gibson's granddad, Robert Bruce. Exactly.

They couldn't decide who was going to be king, so they asked Edward I of England as their neighbour and friend, as an impartial observer, to say which one of us should be king. And Edward I thought, great, here's my chance. And he said, okay, I'll do that. But first of all, I need to have legal authority over Scotland to have this kind of authority to decide who's king. And so little legal loophole, he gave himself authority over all of Scotland and then the rest is history. He just started getting in the way all the time and what a cock up. Yeah. Berwick upon Tweed is the, now if you're heading north from England to Scotland, it's pretty

much the last English town you pass through. If you're heading on the East Coast. If you're heading on the East Coast, absolutely. Sorry, a big fan of the West Coast mainline over here. I love the West Coast mainline. But for international listeners, let's simplify. Just saying it's the last term before Scotland. So, Barry Kapon Tweed, very, very northern English town,

it has changed hands 13 times over the last thousand years. I mean, mostly centuries ago. And all the times it changed hands, it wasn't just being captured in battles. So in 1174 Scotland gave it to England because William I had been captured and that was part of the ransom, we want Berwick upon Tweed. Then 20 years later Scotland bought it back because King Richard needed money for a crusade. They're like, what can I flog off? Oh, so Berwick upon Tweed, the Scots love that. For about 200 years, once every 15 years, it changed hands. Do you think they ever knew?

The people in Berwick upon Tweed going about their lives, do you think they ever knew? They just say they're from Berwick. A lot of people there just say, I'm a Bericker, you know. There's a guy called Derek Sharman, who's a local historian who says this a lot. Derek from Berwick. Derek from Berwick.

Derek upon Tweed. He says that basically, he says basically that they're all just Bericas. And actually, if you're from north of the river and south of the river, that's kind of a distinguishable sort of almost nationality as well. Obviously, that's where the next big civil war is happening, is it? Edward I, who was the famous antagonist, the hammer of the Scots. Hammer of the Scots. Longshanks, lots of nicknames.

He is still in Westminster Abbey, buried just in a very plain lead casket, not with a normal regalia of English monarchs. Is that to not upset the Scots? It's the absolute opposite, James. It's because- Oh no. Is it to properly wind them up?

It's to really fucking piss them off. No, I think it would give the Scots, it would gratify them, because basically he said, I don't want to be buried properly until the Scots are finally conquered. And they haven't yet finally been conquered. And so no one's yet exhumed him

and buried him in a pocket. Did they not consider when we beat them in Euro 96-21 with that coal gas coin goal? People were battering away at Westminster Abbey with spades. How interesting. Yeah, Edward I, the really interesting thing about him is the siege of Stirling Castle when he got this enormous trebuchet built. So a trebuchet is like a catapult and it was called the War Wolf. It was 90 meters tall. It took three months to build. And the Scots, when they saw it sort of trundling up, they went, oh, shit. And they said, it's okay. We surrender.

We surrender. We surrender. And King Edward went, oh, I spent three months making this now. And so he attacked them anyway, even though they surrendered. Yeah. Deneep, it was basically going, okay, I'm just going to test it though. And you're not allowed to leave the castle until the test is over.

Good Lord. Pretty wild. It's a great name, the War Wolf. Yeah. That is cool. You don't want to waste work like that, do you? You know, you can see his point. We'll just wheel it on to the next place.

I'll tell you what, the War Wolf was good against this castle, but it was even better up against the castle made of sticks and the castle made of straw. Hey. Get it. I get it. Yeah. One of the chief nobles who led the rebellion, the Scottish rebellions after ever the first little land grab there, he was called Andrew de More or Andrew Murray. Oh, really? He was like the other William Wallace. He was the one who wasn't William Wallace. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one who wasn't William Wallace basically. That's Damore. Um, Bannockburn is where um... Freedom!

Freedom was won for Andrew Murray here, then deceased but... Was it you or was it William Wallace? I think I was dead by this point. You were, you were. I think it was an earlier battle where I did very very well by the way but then I got injured and died. It was Stirling Bridge in fact sadly. That so would be on your tubes though, Andy.

Did very well actually. Red like a four star battle. When you're killed in a fight but you still did alright, that's de moray. So many battles over the centuries, it's kind of insane. Scotland had a huge role in what gets called the English Civil War, which turns out we shouldn't call the English Civil War, it should be called the War of the Three Kingdoms. Okay. Is that the War of the Roses or is it the War of the the Roundheads versus Cavaliers? That one. So War of the Roses ends in 1485 with Henry the Bruce the Third and Battle of Bosworth and Henry the Seventh taking over. What gets called the

English Civil War is the 1640s basically. It started partly because Charles I, who was basically a useless, like imagine a useless king. Oh, you thought the Cromwell Cooladam? He was just like big floppy rough, you know, suspicious continental practices. People worried he was a Catholic. Imagine the ironing it took to get that right. He had tried to interfere with the Church of Scotland and he'd tried to impose his own prayer books on the Kirk in 1637.

This went down phenomenally badly. It led to a thing called the Bishop's Wars where just like Ecclesiastes- They all attacked diagonally. That's the best bishop this week. I don't know. You haven't heard parenting hell this week have you Andy? And Scotland got so angry about this prayer book difference that they occupied Northern England. And he had to not only back down, he had to pay expenses, which is so humiliating after a war. Pay expenses? What, like we bought these train tickets to get down to Leeds?

Pretty much. Can you? Yes. We've not really. Right, yeah. Let's just, 10 pounds 60 at Pret. Who was this, guys? It was a sandwich and a drink. They're expensive these days. So Charles then had to ask for money from Parliament because of the war debt that had been imposed. And that helped kick off the entire Civil War period. And then at the end of it, the English execute Charles.

Cromwell comes in. And the Scots are furious. And that leads to another battle, because they were so angry about, as they saw it, their king getting his head chopped off by Cromwell. Do you know this William Wallace period, Robert the Bruce? Robert the Bruce, don't hear too much about him these days, but he influenced something great in modern popular culture. Someone was named after him.

Someone was named after Robert Bruce. Bruce Forsyth. No, Bruce Springsteen. No, Robert. Mugabe. Is that what we say in popular culture? Oh, his middle name, Winnie the Pooh. No, it's Bruce and it is in the world of fiction.

Bruce Almighty. No, Bruce. He in the world of fiction. Bruce Almighty. No. Bruce. Who's the most famous? Bruce. Bruce Dickinson. The guy from Matilda. The fat kid.

Yes, Anna. Bruce Banner from The Hulk. You're so close. Bruce. Superhero. Bruce. Is he Australian? Oh, Bruce Wayne.

Bruce Wayne. Who's Bruce Wayne? What do you mean who's Bruce Wayne? Oh, you only know Batman. Okay, so Batman. Bruce Wayne? What do you mean who's Bruce Wayne? Oh, you only know Batman. Okay, so Batman. Bruce Wayne is Batman? Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that in 1999, the first ever TV ad made for cats was broadcast on ITV and had

an estimated viewership of three million cats. Three million. Three million. Well, the numbers... Because the number you sent around was seven million. Yeah, but then I did some additional research. Interestingly, I have two million. I have two million as well.

I've had to go over my numbers quite a few times. Basically this was a commercial that was put together by Whiskers, the cat food people, and they wanted to put something together that was specifically for cats. And so they asked someone what would generate a cat's interest, and it turns out an incredibly surreal 40 second animation full of weird ping noises, little sounds, a mouse running up, a line going up and down the screen, very random stuff. And they made a big deal out of it. It was a big promo thing. And on the 27th of January 1999, there was an announcement just before it was coming on, a pre-ad, to say we were about to play the first ever ad

for cats. Get your cat. Let's do this. I think it was also announced in like the newspapers and stuff beforehand because I remember it happening. They had to advertise the advert. Well, it was clever really because you get publicity out of the fact you're doing an advert. That's very hard to do. They've won a lot of awards basically for innovation of getting the interest of the

people to make sure that their cats were in. Now the numbers are dodgy obviously. 1999 was a period where it went from viewership to households, so you don't know how many people would be in a household So 2.2 people per household roughly is what the ratings would suggest. We're watching Well, let's get to hang on guys head on the numbers. Okay, so we know what the numbers were of the viewing figures that night It was 18 million five hundred and twenty thousand. That's what we're watching. However, that's viewers not households, right? Okay, so if we're talking houses that might have a cat in it, we've got to look at houses.

Right. Yeah. So let's, let's, 2.2 people. So you got to bring that down, that number, basically split that number in half, right? Yeah. Then, it wasn't just shown on ITV that night, it was also shown on Channel 4 and Channel 5. So we need to add those in. So that's 21.2 million viewers. Split that in half. It's roughly 10.6 households. I'm not counting the Channel 5 viewers because I remember Channel 5 in the 90s and it was too blurry to make anything out. Okay.

They didn't see any of those images. And how many did it contain a cat, I suppose, as the next question. Well, at that time, it's estimated that a quarter of all houses in the UK had cats. And then what percentage of households invited their cats into the room to watch when it happened? And do they have one cat or two cats? So most houses had 1.6 cats. So you then got to add those. It was a gruesome time in the 90s.

So roughly when you add all those numbers together, in theory, there could be roughly around three million cats that were in front of a screen in the room. So are you having three million as your number? I'm gonna go for three million because I'm also gonna add in the fact it was played in America and so those numbers are gonna add up. Can I say, I think the number might for three million because I'm also gonna add in the fact it was played in America and so those numbers are gonna happen. Can I say I think the number might be three million and one because I let Harley watch

it this week. Oh really? My cat. And if you want to know what she thought of it then go on my TikTok or Instagram because I'll put the video up. Oh that's very exciting. A little ad for another format within our show. You're doing what the cat people did.

Yeah, that's as big as James Harkin. Get on there. Wow, that's very good. It was considered a success. So successful, they released it on video, VHS. No. I actually found it on eBay. So this is it. The first ever commercial for cats. Oh my God. Officially released by Whiskers, an old VHS. Wow. Why is everyone calling it the first ever as though now we are inundated by cat adverts? Well perhaps at the time they thought this was going to be massive, right?

So the back says, thousands of cats across the length and breadth of Britain, jumping, staring, cutting, like, cats. Thousands of thousands. Thousands of cats. So one in a thousand viewers of the advert had any reaction whatsoever so yeah so we don't we don't know the numbers and they've just muddied the waters even more amazing that's advertising yeah but it did good for them it did really good oh yeah you know what else did well for whiskers eight out of ten cats that's one of theirs yeah what do you mean that's

their slogan yeah so there's a tv show eight 8 Out of 10 Cats, and 8 Out of 10 Cats does countdown. But that came from a slogan by Whiskers, which was, 8 Out of 10 Cats prefer our product. And they ran it for quite a lot of years until the advertising standards authority encouraged them to change it. And they changed it to 8 Out of 10 Owners who expressed a preference said that their cat prefers it. And the problem was that basically they'd been doing this 8 Out of 10 owners who expressed a preference said that their cat prefers it. And the problem was that basically they'd been doing this 8 out of 10 cats for ages

and everyone knew at the time. And then they went up to 9 out of 10 cats. So they did a survey in 2001 and they thought that actually now it's 9 out of 10. And when they did that, the people at Friskies, who is another cat food company said, oh, we're not having this. And they went to the ASA and they said that this is a biased survey and, you know, it wasn't a fair reflection. Well, if it's eight out of 10 owners who expressed a preference, that leads to other questions,

doesn't it? How many owners express a preference? Absolutely. Yeah, that's fair enough. But does this mean that Jimmy Carr has to change the title of the show as well? Surely. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah.

Cool. Let's get in contact. They were very good whiskers, by the way, let's do it. Yeah. Cool. Let's get in contact. They were very good whiskers, by the way, with their promotion in 1999 specifically. So over in Australia, there was an Aussie rules footballer called Gary Hocking, who changed his name by depot to whiskers. And the idea was that as he was playing, they had no choice but to say, oh, whiskers has got the ball. They were being paid.

Did they do that? Or did they just use his old name? Like that's what happens when football teams change the name of their stadium to a company name. People just call it the old name. Yep. The AFL were very against calling him Whiskers and really stuck to Gary Hocking. They were paid a couple of hundred grand in order to advertise them generally and this

was a sort of extra move by Gary Hocking because he thought it's gonna be funny and it made new stories. It did the job right. Like that's all that this needs to do. It's like when the snooker player Jimmy White changed his name to Jimmy Brown to advertise HP sauce. Oh did he? Yeah. One of us should change our names to something. I've changed my name years ago to Maserati but no one, they keep asking me to stop. No one here uses it. Nightmare.

Videos actually look crap to cats. This TV advert would have looked rubbish because they see so much better than us. They see about 100 frames a second. So we only need to see 20 frames a second for stuff to look smooth to us. And I think TV is about 24 or TV is 30 and films are 24. So to cats, it's just gonna look like a series of photographs.

So cat videos in general, can you think of a role, famous role that was inspired by cat videos? Catwoman. Well, there's no fun if you're gonna get it immediately. When Anne Hathaway, the actress, she played Catwoman. It's just cause we did the Batman thing. Yeah, yeah. Wow.

But Catwoman isn't an actual cat. Well, no, but she- Come on, Anne. Look, she's gone to justify her fee somehow, Anne. So she's gotta say, well, I spent a couple of weeks looking at cat videos online, after that'll be another million quid. When Daniel Day-Lewis went for the same part, he just sat there licking his ass for three weeks. Thank you, Mr. Day-Lewis, we've actually received enough half mice.

But that we're going with Hathaway. I'm sorry. She fits the suit better. That's been done by a bunch of them. Tom Holland studied the movements of a spider in order to... Such bullshit. Robert Downey Jr. watched ironing videos non-stop. It's something to say in an interview, isn't it? You run out of stuff to say in interviews,

yeah. I read a really good article. It was like an inside look at the Wolfram Pet Care Science Institute in Milton-Mowbray, which is the science arm of Mars Pet Care, which is where all of our pet food comes from. Mars makes it all. They go to such great lengths to look after their cats there and to test really advanced foods on them. They found out that cats prefer Asian cuisine because their favourite flavours are, well you can probably guess. Plum sauce.

Plum sauce, the same flavour, yeah. Umami. Umami. And the new one, kakumi. Kakumi, yeah. I'm sorry, for those of us not up on our flavours, what's that? So it's, I think it's like fullness and richness. Kakumi?

Yeah, they keep adding more. It's not like a flavour so much as an enhance. It is officially a flavour, but it's like enhances salty things and... Yeah. Is it like MSG? No, that's umami. Yeah. Okay. And then once all the cats are tested on at Melton Mowbray at this site, they get taken home and adopted by one of the people who work there. In other words, they get turned into pot pies. Yeah, we know what you mean. They're very good owners to the extent that one of the research scientists called Scott

McGrain adopted a cat and then noticed when he took it home that the cat was a bit perplexed by his telly because they had never seen one before. And since then they've installed loads of TVs, a TV room for the cats there. Why? So that when they get adopted, they don't get confused by TV. Is that a massive like safeguarding welfare thing for cats being confused by TV's when they go to their forever home? Is that really a problem for them? The RSPCA is clamping down yes. Can I just say Scott McGrain is very much a name you would come up with if

you're trying to come up with a name for a Scottish person and failing. Scott you've been mentioned on the show this week. Listen in. You know, cats falling off things and flipping the right way up and landing on their feet? Yeah, they land on their feet. So this was a physics puzzle from much of the 19th century, how it happens. Because there was a scientist called George Gabriel Stokes. James, you did maths, you may have heard of him?

Yeah, Stokes equation. I've heard of that. Yeah, it's about fluid mechanics orokes. James, you did maths, you may have heard of him. Yeah, Stokes equation. I've heard of that. Yeah, it's about fluid mechanics or something. Okay, perfect. So he was a Lucassian professor of maths at Cambridge and other holders of the role were people like Isaac Newton, Stephen Hawking.

Oh, Hawking, yeah. So big brain, George Gabriel Stokes. He and his colleague, James Clark Maxwell, another great, big physics name, they were there at the same time and they could not work out right Cats if you drop them they fall onto their feet How because that's it's they seem to be violating the law about the conservation of angular momentum

Which is if something rotates it has to have something to rotate against which rotates the opposite way, right? Yeah, got it. So how does the cat rotate with nothing to push? So like let's say you jump off a diving board. Yeah. You've pushed off against that and you use that kind of momentum to twizz around in the air. Exactly. But if the cat's just falling, how do they do that? Yeah, exactly.

Can I just ask a further clarifying question? If I didn't dive off the diving board, if I let myself just fall forward, can I swing around to my back? I think Andy's about to answer. Right. Yeah. But the judges will mark you down for that. Can I swing around to my back? I think Andy's about to answer. Right. But the judges will mark you down with that.

I've just proved Maxwell's theorem! Two, two, four. So this was so interesting, like how on earth are they doing it? It turns out what the cats do as they start to drop, right, it uses its own mass to rotate around. How? It flips in its four legs, it pulls them in, and that means like a gymnast, its top half spins faster, then it flips out its forelimbs and it flips in its back limbs and now its back half is revolving faster. And it like switches back and forth between those two.

So it creates its own momentum using its limbs like an athlete. So that is how the cat rotates. And it can do that as quick as falling off this table that we're recording. It's stunning. I mean, so quickly in 1998, there was an Italian researcher who dropped a cat called

Esther 600 times and determined that- RSPCA had to get involved at some stage. They're too busy with the telly thing. What are you in for? Introducing a cat to my home without briefing it about the TV? Me? Oh no, I dropped mine 600 times. Anyway, it came to the very important conclusion. She could fall on her feet when she was dropped from anywhere between two and six feet, but not from one foot so it's only from two feet up. They can do all this Gymnastics and I read the same thing at it. It was so good

He dropped Esther from the height of one foot 100 times in a row to make sure she definitely couldn't do it Right, she didn't land on her feet once. Yeah, it's much bigger than the sample size that you statistically need He said he did write in his paper feet once. Yeah. It's much bigger than the sample size that you statistically need. He did write in his paper, I want to thank the cat Esther for her initial cooperation in this experiment. So we didn't get an answer to my question. Would if I fell off a diving board, do humans have the muscles to do what cats do? I'll hand over to James, he's got a physics degree. I think that you would not be able to do that.

Right. Maybe not. But I would think if you trained for long enough, you might be able to, because the physics is there, right? It is possible. But I think it would take training. Because you're not flexible enough. Like we can't shift our bodies like a cat. They've because they have got not extrovert and brave, but you know, I mean, they can move. They can very flexible.

They're very flexible. Yeah yeah I think yeah with training other way I thought of it and I think I skinned it more than Andy so this is probably wrong but I thought of it is like squeezing a cat like a sponge yeah you know when you squeeze a sponge out you have to turn in two different directions at once don't you and that's the only way that it's gonna be able to twist around it's okay so Dan stand up yeah how easy is it for you to twist your top half one direction and your bottom half in the other direction? Yeah, you see like this part.

Oh, dear. Uh-oh. Holy moly. Oh, wow. I'm really doing up there. Dan, that is going to be the TikTok craze, dance craze of 2025. Did you film it, James? Can I make a cameo? That is amazing. Ow. Sorry about that, Dan. No, that's crazy. 2025. Did you film it, James? Can I can I make a cameo?

That is amazing. Oh, sorry about that. No, that's fine. Do you think if you were sat holding a cat right now and I took a photo and then we put it on your dating profile, people would find you more attractive or less attractive, let's say women. OK, well, first off, my wife doesn't know about that cat. So let's yeah.

I'd say they think you're more attractive. With a cat? Absolutely. I would say maybe less. Yeah. Anna? As the woman in the room, I'm going to say less. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's a good feeling.

Women view men as less masculine, higher in neuroticism, agreeableness and openness, but less dateable. No wonder I'm not getting any swipes. Friend material. Less flexible. No, it doesn't. And is there, like, a league table of animals? Like, if I pose with a water vole, am I... Oh yeah.

Or a mink. Or... Koala must be a good one. Do you remember when you did your first Edinburgh show, and I wanted you to do a poster where you were completely naked, but with a water vole over your privates. And we were gonna call it socks and gloves and cock and bowl. Yeah, I do. I do. Why did you never go for that?

Why did you not do that? I just ran out of time on the shoot day. Such a shame. I had the bowl. Can I ask James a question? Yeah. As the cat owner in the room. Yeah. You're not a cat owner?

No. Half done in the past. Okay. But as a current cat owner, James, would you buy a matching outfit for yourself and your cat? No, my cat only wears what God gave her. Okay. And she insists on not being ironed every day,

it's actually very different. No, I would never buy clothes for animals, really. Then you're part of the nine in 10 in your age group who would not buy a matching outfit for yourself and your cat. Whereas a third of 19 to 28 year olds would do that. Really? Yeah, that's the Instagram generation, isn't it?

Would they be able to get the clothes on the cap though? That's my question. I don't know, it depends on the clothes, doesn't it as well? If it's a shapeless sort of bernus or a moomoo or something, it might be quite easy. I don't know why the two items of clothing that came to my mind were a bernice or a moomoo. What are they? It's a sort of North African desert calf. It's like Lawrence of Arabia might have got around in a Bernouche. Have you ever seen that show, Mr. and Mrs.

where you write it down and your partner's going to have to guess what you said? One, two items of clothing. As Andy ch... I'm going to go for shirt and pants. I'm afraid not. He went for Bernouche. I'm a blue boot. You must be kicking yourself. History's masterpieces wouldn't be the same without their most notable accents.

Neither would the Kia Sportage without its multiple drive modes. The Kia Sorento without its expansive 12.3 inch panoramic display or the Kia Telluride without its three rows of spacious seating. The 2025 Kia SUVs. Kia movement that inspires. Call 800-333-4. Kia for details. Always drive safely. Limited inventory available. Okay, it is time for our final fact of the show and that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that America's nudist of the year, 1973, who also invented a contraption that allowed him to sunbathe in sub-zero temperatures, was a man called Dick Bacon.

The name's Bacon. Dick Bacon. What a guy. Dick Bacon is an absolute legend. So I found this in an obituary of Dick Bacon. God damn it. You always find out about these people too late, right? He spent his life on Lake Michigan, sunbathing, and anyone who has been to Lake Michigan or lives there knows that in the winter it gets very, very cold. But the newspapers said that he set up a series of reflective shields to protect him from the wind and inside the temperature would get high enough for him to tan. Still gonna be pretty cold though, isn't it?

And he was naked, wasn't he? He was actually usually bathed in a small swimsuit. Okay. But that was just to keep on the right side of the law. And he definitely preferred, wasn't he? He was actually usually bathed in a small swimsuit. Okay. But that was just to keep on the right side of the law. And he definitely preferred to be nude. He began his nudism when he was 25. He worked as a live model at the University of Wisconsin. But he didn't want tan lines.

He thought it was unfair on the people drawing him. Oh. That they had to draw in the tan lines. So he thought, well, I'm just going to not wear any clothes anymore. That's amazing. And he basically just went, okay, how do I make it so that every single day I can be out there all year round? So he worked in a brewery. He always took the second and third shifts in there. So he always had the morning free. So he was a morning

boo. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So just every day, go get the sun as it's going up. He married someone and he had this line that I just absolutely love. He met this girl and she said, what's your name? And he replied, bacon. Won a strip. And that works on two levels. Yeah. Like a strip bacon.

Yeah. And strip hasn't take your clothes off. I'm a nudist. Let's go strip. Well, that's just a wonderful double entendre. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very strong. That is good.

In fact, it's better than fancy some pork. It's better than that, fancy some pork. Better than that. It is better than that. Yeah. He won nudist of the year in 73, like I said, but he won that by accident. Okay. He just so happened to be in this place called naked city.

When the competition was taking place, he didn't deliberately go there for the competition. Uh, and he said after his win, they interviewed him in the newspapers and they said that he was aiming to reach his natural color. Although the Daily Herald, where I read this, said that he was already a deep red. Yeah. Okay.

Having a natural color, it's a bit weird, isn't it? As in, do we have a natural color? Yeah, good point. Because you turn, it depends whether you've been in the sun or not. Yeah, exactly. I feel like my natural colour is incredibly pale, but that's only because I haven't been in the sunshine.

Well, you're looking tan today, I would say. Well, I'm trying to sort that out, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's why I've got this bernuce with me. He was arrested a lot, Mr Bacon. He was, yeah. For nude bathing and lewd and lascivious behavior. But he was a campaigner. He was saying, this isn't harming people. This is a natural, healthy, almost sporting way of living

in harmony with the elements. And I completely backed that. And he was in very good shape. In fact, I was recently on a nudist beach, a partially nudist beach, not by choice. Partly nudist, that's just a beach. You were on a partially nudist beach, not by choice. The story, the plot is thickening. I was on a beach where a lot of people were nudist, that's just a beach. You want a partially nudist beach, not by choice. The story, the plot is thickening.

I was on a beach where a lot of people were nudists, including myself, but there were a lot of nudists. And it's completely fine, but they're not all in amazing shape. Whereas he was like a gladiator, wasn't he? Yeah, I guess he would be if you've won all the awards that he has, right? Well, he won Mr. Nude America,

he won Mr. Nude Apollo, Mr. Nude Galaxy. Are any of these awards big awards? The Galaxy? Yeah, I think it might be. You know if you put factor 50 sun cream on, will it stop your skin aging? I guess so, probably. Or make it age more slowly? Nothing can stop your skin aging, guys. Well I would have thought that UV rays might age your skin, and so the lotion might stop that.

Yeah, get you more leathery, right? They absolutely do age your skin, but only UVA waves. So what they don't tell you on the sun creams is that when they say the factor, UV rays are split into UVA and UVB, and it's basically about the wavelengths. So UVB have shorter wavelengths, and they're the ones that cause sunburn and they're the most carcinogenic.

So when you've got factor X sun cream, it's just blocking the UVB rays or sorry, reducing them but it doesn't refer to UVA and they're the ones that cause skin aging. They're the ones that go deeper and make you wrinkly and crusty. So you need to look at the star rating as well if you want to not go wrinkly and crusty. I've never seen a star rating on my sun cream. They often don't have them. If they don't have a star rating does that mean they don't protect against the UVA? I believe it does. Okay can I run a tanning practice past you guys? Yes please. Have any of you heard of or you two done testicle tanning?

Jesus Christ, was it last week or the week before when you were talking about perineum tanning? Yeah, yeah, testicle tanning is completely different. This is actually, it's not sunlight. You don't have to go down to the beach and bury yourself. I always, I do do that, but I always iron mine first. It does take one of those 40 kilogram irons to get them flat. This is actually, it's not even a real tanning. It's a very dubious medical thing. It's just blasting red light at your knackers and claiming that it'll improve your testosterone and a load of male energy and hormones and stuff. And people are doing this, are they? In their bucket loads?

Not, thankfully I don't think it's very popular, but it is the kind of thing that a load of dubious Americans have basically glommed onto and started saying is a good idea. And it's not. Well, unless you want to save the poor life drawing class, which apparently was Dick Bacon's motivation. You can't draw two shades of skin color. Well, this is very similar to perineum tanning, which we did talk about a couple of weeks ago. A friend of the podcast.

Very scientific. But I wasn't there, and so I insist on revisiting it. And there was something I found interesting about this, because it's mostly obviously just a TikTok nonsense thing, where there's like one person who says it's a really good thing to expose your bumhole to the sun and after 30 seconds you get the same benefits you get exposing your body for a day and it's nonsense and there is Josh Brolin the actor put a thing up saying so he's Thanos in Avengers and yeah no country for old men he's in that if you want to picture his face. Yes and he put a thing up. That is the part of him I want to picture I must have been in this fact. Thainus more likely. He said don't try this on your Thainus because I did it and my pocket hole is crazily burnt. I mean

he obviously didn't he's taking the piss I assume he's not an insane person. But what I quite like is that, you know, conspiracy theories always come from a kernel of truth. And the woman who started this said, it's an ancient Taoist practice to bathe your bumhole in the sun. And actually, it does come from this idea in Taoism. So Taoism is like ancient Chinese philosophy, basically. And and Hui Yin is the collection point of all Yin energy in your body, and that is your perineum. So all of Yin, you know, you've got Yin and Yang, the two opposing forces that work together,

Yin is all gathered in your perineum, and they do believe that it's good to bathe in sunlight and moonlight for wellness. And so, you know, there's a kernel of truth in this bollocks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brazil, home of great tanning culture. Oh, yeah. Do you know what the fashionable bikini is

to wear in Brazil at the moment? Is it like a full body, like a burkini, but it's very, very stiff. So your arms go out like Christ the Redeemer. Oh, wow. That's right. It's a starched banoose effect. Is it, well okay, like Brazilian, that you would think, okay, very thongy. It's very thongy.

Oh is it that Borat one? Is it that thing? It's not the mankini. Not the mankini. What's it made of? What fabric is it made of? Cashmere. No!

I love it, I love it! A m i know spider silk just one piece of spider silk up the crack oh you'll really feel that um the aim of it is to give you incredibly crisp tan lines so something that blocks all of the it blocks blocks really effectively. So like a lead or a hazmat suit. I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you, it's electrical tape. Do you give yourself a Brazilian when you take it off? Well what you need is this thing, the marquina da fita, the little tape mark, and you go to a salon, they will put a, literally tape a bikini onto you and they'll give you a little bit of fabric for your nips and stuff like that.

Of course, because I was thinking like lead is the same as a swimming costume, they all block it but what you need is for your body not to be able to shift underneath it at all. Exactly, so it's just that one bit of skin that is covered with the fabric. So you could superglue your swimming costume to yourself as well. Well look, there are all sorts of roads to the answer, yes, but this is the biggie. There are salons where you just go and people go up to the roof, you pay about eight quid, which includes a breakfast buffet. What?

I would do this. Eight quid? I know who's cheaper than a travel lunch. And they don't do anything to your nips. You're not going to be beach body ready after a full English. Yeah, and then people lie there and they spray you with water every now and again and that's how you get those incredibly crisp lines. Hey, sugar nips Thank you. Yes, sweetie possum. Yes, go on Do you know what sugar nips? I read this today and I'd never heard it before

I thought it was just a something that how you used it just then me too So sugar nips were like a little pair of scissors you would use and if you had a block of sugar in your house or sugar Loaf they would call it fact sugar loaf mountain just outside Rio, but you would have a sugar loaf on your table and you would use your sugar nips to nip off a little bit of sugar. Incredible. Wow. Yeah, I've never heard that before. That is a kind of, because you guys know I like a rare bit of crockery.

I'm surprised and disappointed that you weren't familiar with them and in fact don't own a pear Andy. No. And I'm actually now regretting it because I could have bought you some for your birthday. I'm going to hop straight on eBay after this to go with the asparagus tongs and the butter spade. Probably when you Google sugar nips. I'll take my chances.

I'll take my chances. Okay, that is it. That is all of our facts. Thank you very much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with us about the things we've said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on our various social media accounts. I'm on Shriverland, on Instagram. James? My TikTok, no such thing as James Harkin. Andy? I'm on Instagram at Andrew Honduran.

And Anna, to get to us as a group, they go to... You can go to Instagram at no such thing ashingAsAFish or at NoSuchThingOnTwitter or email podcast.qi.com. Yeah, and check out our website. We've got a kick-ass website, NoSuchThingAsAFish.com. All our previous episodes are up there. There's lots of merch that you can buy up there. You can see if we're going to be doing any live shows in the coming year. Check it out there.

And of course, there's Club Fish, which is our wonderful hidden private members club where we put a lot of bonus episodes up and so on. It's great fun. Check it out. Otherwise just come back here next week. We'll be back with another episode and we will see you then. Goodbye. History's masterpieces wouldn't be the same without their most notable accents. Neither would the Kia Sportage without its multiple drive modes.

The Kia Sorento without its expansive 12.3-inch panoramic display. Or the Kia Telluride, without its three rows of spacious seating. The 2025 Kia SUVs. Kia. Movement that inspires.