No Such Thing As A Fish - No Such Thing As An Itching Powder Guild

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

Dan, James, Anna and Andrew discuss rejections, ejections, lightbulbs and onion bulbs. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes. Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at nosuchthingasafish.com/apple or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Covent Garden. My name is Dan Schreiber. I am sitting here with Andrew Hunter Murray, Anna Tashinsky, and James Harkin. And once again, we have gathered round the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in a particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is Andy. My fact is that the man who invented the underwater ejection. The projector seat once broke his tailbone in six places while testing the system on the ground rather than in the water. What an idiot.

This was a bike called John Rawlins. It was very eminent. Well, I didn't know about him. I was at a comedy gig a few weeks ago. The comedian started talking to the guy next to me in the audience. And this guy started talking about how he was either reading about or related to the man who invented the underwater ejector seat. And the comedian just loved it. It just made hay with it.

Did he? A whale of a time. Have you been speaking to you previously? He said, he said, anything's better than that guy. Yeah, yeah, they spoke for ages actually. That's so amazing. Wow. What a heckle.

He just mentioned Sir John Rawlins. I thought, Underwater Rejectus. I've never heard of that. No, I don't think of that's something that has been invented, in fact. Right. And Sir John Rawlins. You would be gutted, actually, Anna, if you invented the underwater ejector seat, which you would reasonably assume hasn't been invented yet.

Yeah. You want to find out about this. I've drawn up a lot of patents. I was about to apply. It's devastating. But it is for planes, but it's for underwater planes. Yeah. Well, no, no, no, it's for planes that have crashed and gone underwater.

Yeah. Underwater planes, sorry, yes, yes. So it basically works sort of, if a pilot is unconscious and the plane is sinking, it'll pop out the pilot without the pilot needing to do anything. So that's very clever. Why didn't it pop them out prior to hitting the water and sinking? Like, I would argue, an ejector seat is built to do it. I suppose the plane is thinking, maybe he's, maybe he's all right.

The plane is thinking, yeah, maybe he's, Maybe he's still, he or she will pull this round and then the plane goes into the water and the plane realizes, I better step in. Okay. I think it's usually the pilot that presses the ejector seat button or pulls the lever. I'm not sure the sentient plane has been invented yet to do that. In this case, in this case it's automatic. Yes, once it hits water. But I think what happens is often, if you're trying to land your plane, you want to land it rather than eject, because then you can save the plane.

You can land planes on water, as we've seen, solely landed there. Absolutely. On the Hudson. Maybe you try and do it. then you don't get it quite right and you start sinking. Okay. Also, it's dangerous to eject when you're too close to the ground anyway. Like, if you look at the survival rates of ejection under a certain altitude, it's a lot lower.

So, you know, if you're too close to the water, if you're just coming into land, you get into trouble. But they are, they're amazing because, okay, let's say you were parachuting out of a regular plane and it was too low altitude. The parachute wouldn't be able to get the grip and so you would plummet and die. But ejector seats are actually designed so that you can eject from a plane. while it's on the ground and survive. Yes, the rates are low. I didn't know that you could do that.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Working on like what can propel you up high. It propels you up high enough and the parachute works. And that's what they're designed to do. Like not all of them do that, I think. No, but you can do that. Yeah, you can.

Amazing. And you actually, and this was available in the 80s, I'm sure we'll get on to Rollins in the minute. But this was in the 80s. There was a Soviet pilot and he was flying down. And his plane had rolled. And so the cockpit was. now facing towards the ground.

And he was only a few feet from the ground. Whoa. Like, he was like, I don't know how many, but it was like, let's say, definitely less than 50 feet away from the ground. But he's facing downwards, right? He didn't. You press the ejector seeds, fired him towards the ground. Everyone thought he's a goner, obviously, like almost in a cartoon way.

Did they go and look at the 20 feet deep hole that been drilled into the ground by his head? Can we guess? Yeah, go on. Marshmanufactory. It's always a Macon Factory. Yeah, or a mattress factory.

Just a bit further. Just got to get directly over the old pillow mountain. Oh no. It's the broken glass factory. No, they had like an auto gyroscope system in their seat.

So as it pushed you out, it knew which way was up and then it could fire rocket boosters which took him in the right direction away from the ground. And the amazing thing was that no one knew about this. It was Soviet technology and the Americans didn't know about it and Europeans didn't know about it. And it was live on television or it was shown on television. So everyone thought he

was dead. And then suddenly when he survived, everyone was like, holy shit, how did that happen? Yeah. That's amazing. So they thought he was dead when he ejected, but then they saw him spin around and go back up in the air. I think they thought he was dead. Everyone's eyes kind of followed the wreckage. And then they turned back and he was, da-da. Yeah. What a trick. So cool. That's amazing. Quickly back on the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, original character in this, John Rawlins. So Sir John Rawlins, amazing character. Sir John Stuart Peep's Rollins. Peep's Rollins, because he was a descendant of Pete. Yeah, pretty cool. Direct descendant. Apparently, I couldn't find the family tree. But his father was also

hugely decorated as a military person. He comes from a huge stock and he designed the first protective helmets using composite materials. He advised the British Standards Institute on how to make motorcycle helmets, cycling helmets, horse riding helmets, racing helmets. So a lot of the helmets we were today very, very slightly, thanks to some of his research. So cool, isn't it? This is interesting about Rawlins,

because I have often wondered before, why are all these helmets different, you know, horse riding and cycling? It's going to be very similar if you fall off head first. Bet the same helmet will do it. But do you think John just wanted to make us an extra buck by diversifying? We're wearing a bike helmet on a horse.

Well, one of my cycle helmets looks a lot like her horse helmet, doesn't it? You know that orange one that I wear? It does, it does. I don't look stupid, Andy, do I? No.

No. No, no. I was trying to read more about the underwater ejectory. Oh, sorry, I'll be saying ejection seat. I think this is like a detector's, detectorist's thing.

Yes, right. Where we'll get lots of letters saying it's an ejection seat. I've seen lots of people saying ejection. I saw a few things online saying ejection that, yeah. I'm going to keep saying it. And then if you want to contact James

individually for saying ejector, we'll just, you could I'm going off the James Bond name. He would call it an ejector seat, wouldn't he? He absolutely would. But that's Bond for you. It's such an avarice. And no one dares to complain.

But I was reading about someone who ejected in 1954, which was just before Rawlins invented the underwater ejection seat. Yeah. And it was off an aircraft carrier, a British aircraft carrier, right? Their plane was a thing called the Westland Wyvern, right? You know, Wyvern is a mythical, dragony creature. Get this. It had folding wings. there are these pictures of all the planes on the aircraft carrier

and their wings just halfway across just fold up like elbows. Okay. Wow. Like a table tennis table. Exactly. Like to fly through some mountain, close mountains. That's exactly what it's all.

Right. That's it. Yeah, yeah. Everyone breathe in. We're going through two mountains. Let's just stash them on the decks of aircraft carriers. You can store five planes where you could only store two if they had their wings out.

But honestly, I've never seen it before. The wings literally halfway along. they just fold up. Like a butterfly. Amazing. Or a finger. In fact, they do, they had two joints. They had two joints in them.

So it is exactly like a finger. Just if you crook your finger in that creepy way, that's what the wings do. All right. Well, they should have done it. Close your finger. Why didn't they do like a butterfly? That would take a much less space. Yeah, you could have folded it right up.

Do it at the shoulder? Yeah. Not the elbow, you idiots. So I thought that the only underwater ejection seats were ejection seats that were used underwater, having not been intended for it, because that does seem to happen. And I was reading a blog of a guy called Russ Pearson, who, did you read about him? This was 1969, and he ejected in the Pacific off the coast of California from an ejector seat underwater. So he'd crash landed.

I mean, it sounds like he definitely said, I thought I was definitely going to die because obviously I was 20 feet underwater. I was sinking incredibly fast. I just pressed a button and hoped for the best. It broke his back at the time, but I think he was too panicked to notice while he was underwater. and somehow I think there was a boat suddenly which turned a light on in the distance which told him where the surface was so he managed to swim up to the surface but he said the worst thing about ejecting underwater in an ejector seat is what do you have to have on you that automatically is applied when you eject from a plane in the air?

Oxygen? Actually oxygen is one thing. Lip balm. What are you? I don't know. What's applied to you? I haven't phrased this very well and I can understand the errors but I'm talking about a parachute. Oh yeah?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. So it ejects you with a parachute. He made it up to the surface, but then the parachute just pulled him down and down again. Oh, no. So he's just up there with a broken back parachute pulling him down. And then he said he felt something on its feet,

and he thought, that's a shark. And so he tried to find his shark repellent, which for some reason he was carrying in his pocket. Batman from the 1960s. But he realized it was just the plane. And then, yeah, he just about survived. He managed to be evacuated on a medical. plane. Pretty cool. I have a cool thing. So the first person to use an ejector seat, I think in

the UK, was a guy, he was an Irish mechanic. He was called Bernard Lynch. And he tried, he did it in 1945. And later he did 32 more ejections from planes to test the stuff. Yeah, he was the guinea pig. He was the guinea pig. The ejector seat guinea pig. Yeah. For the firm Martin Baker, which is the British firm which makes thousands of ejecta seats. Yeah. And it does all that. Anyway, I got to speak to Bernard Lynch's son, Dermott. I rang him up and we had a cool chat. Yeah. And he had some crazy adventures.

So once he landed in a field, right, when he was testing an ejector seat. And then he just sort of left his parachute behind. I think he tied it to a tree or something. Yeah. And he just went to the pub. Like a dog poo. Like a huge, huge. I'm coming back to pick it up, okay.

Don't get stressed out. He just went to the pub. And the team turn up, obviously, because they track broadly where you're going. they're looking for it. And so the team from the company arrived at the field, thought, oh no, Bernard's, he's died somehow. He's evaporated. They found his wife. They told him he was dead. And then they found him in the park.

Straight away. That was premature. Before they found a buddy or anything, they were just like, I'm really sure. He tied up his parachutes and then he died. Actually, I forgot to say when you were 10 minutes late today, James, I did call Polino. Oh, right.

So you'll want to reassure her. That's such a good point. Yeah, and then two hours later they found him in the park. That's right. Wow. He was a legend and he subjected his body to so much volunteering to do this. Because he used to, before he had himself fired out of actual planes, they erected what sounds to me like one of those things at a fairground where you're sitting on a big long bench.

And it lifts all the way up a pole and then it drops you really hard. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, those fairground. I think he was like on a reverse version. of that. So he was on the pole. He was reverse polling. No, he was on something that would look the same, but it shoots you up incredibly fast. So it was like a bench attached to a pole. It was more like, if we were talking fairground things, it was more like the strong man kind of where you, you slam the hammer out and you send the weight. But he's sitting on the tiny weight. He's sitting

on the weight. That's brilliant. And yeah, he's being loved to the top. He was only six inches tall, wasn't yet. Yeah, yeah. So this works. But he used to just do that until it got too painful. So they'd do it more and more with more and more force because you need maximum force for an ejection seat to get people out of harm's way. And as soon as it got to such an agonizing level that he was like,

I don't think we can do this to pilots. He'd say that's max force next up. He was very tough. Yeah. He did one thing. He refused to reject over water. Okay. He just wouldn't do it.

He just wouldn't do it. And none of the experiments was he well. Oh, okay. Right. pubs. It was because he'd fallen in sheep dip when he was eight, and it was a really traumatizing experience. He might have nearly drowned or something.

Really? Sheep dip. What's that? It's a chemical solution that you make sheep walk through to, I think, keep them clean or antiseptic. It's quite different than an ocean. Yeah. So it's quite strange that you would project one onto the other.

I guess it must just have been a drowning. Sounds more like that thing you go through when you're going to a swimming pool. Yeah, it is like that. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Okay, but trauma. It was enough to traumatise Bernard, yeah. I think that's probably a fair enough request. I think so. I think so.

If you're constantly, yeah, being lobbed out of an ejector seat. Martin Baker did he work for this guy? Yeah. Yeah. So they have a website, and on their website it has a counter that tells you how many lives they've saved. Oh, really? Yeah, isn't that cool? Last time I checked, which was when I did this research yesterday, it was 7,690 lives that they've saved.

Decent. I wonder how soon after the ejector seat saving the life, they do the counter. It would be cool if they did it in real time. In real time, yeah. As in they have some kind of thing in the chairs that whenever... Actually, when you pull the lever and you rock it out of the thing, the chair automatically spits out a little form and you have to write, I have had my life saved by this.

Do you think it ever then goes down again? Because sometimes, you know, you'll think you've saved the life and then they'll crash into a thornbush or something. We think it's like when a goal's disallowed, you know, the goal score goes up. But then actually, yeah, BAR says. What if that guy was run over by a car on the way to the pub with that discount? I don't know. But they were called James Martin and Valentine Baker, weren't they? Yeah, he was an amazing pilot, Valentine Baker.

He was Amy Johnson's flight instructor. Sorry, wait, is Amy Johnson was an aviator from the 30s? Yeah, sort of classic aviator from the, God, the Amelia Earhart sort of period. Was she the first to fly across the Atlantic or something? God, I can't remember. She was the first to do something. Fly to Australia? Fly to Australia.

I think she crash landed on her way. I've seen footage of that. So, Amy Johnson, I think I've been to the town on the coast in Kent where she disappeared. Did she disappear as well? Yeah, yeah. I think she was flying a, oh gosh, where is it? It's near, there was a Turkish restaurant we went to. Oh, yeah.

Okay, I know. That's a Turkish restaurant. I didn't remember it because I always. the turnip juice as my drink for the meal. I've heard this story before. And the waiter said, are you sure, are you sure you want the turnip juice? And I said, I'm here, I'm on the North Kent Coast. I want to experience Turkish culture as it was intended to.

And it was the absolutely tough. He didn't like it, guys. Spoiler, he didn't like it. Okay, guys. So if you want to know where this happened, either Google where Amy Johnson crashed, or just check out Andy's history on Tripadai. reviews. You'll see it at that.

Thank God you want to ask to do the eulogy at her funeral. She was a wonderful person. Can I quickly just mention yesterday? Hearn Bay. Herne Bay. My wife once won a load of teddys on a shooting gallery in Hearn Bay. Really? Yeah.

So many good personal anecdotes in Herne Bay. It's a rich place. I went there not long. ago. Did you? Yeah, but I was only making a connecting train, so I just stayed in the station. That's a better story than both right now. I read an article about the ejection club.

Yeah. And it was, they called it the only club where you have to be thrown out to get in. Brilliant. That's really nice. I got an alternative to an injection seat here. This is great. This is a plane. It's an American plane called the Douglas F3D Skainite.

Array. Do you have to say it like that? Yes, you do. It was this US plane And if you had to bail out It was a really small cruise That's two-seater plane Yeah

You're sitting next to each other Okay One is the pilot And one is co-pilot No doing genuinely doing something else Like radar or Or getting some drinks

Yeah yeah Yeah He's got a tiny trolley And he offers the pilot Chicken or Fish About halfway through the flight Yeah Do you want to buy any lottery cards

We're selling lottery cards It's for charity If you've got any spare change In the country you've come from, you can buy these lottery cards. We're both flying over Cambodia now. What are you doing? Yeah, but it's exactly that, you know.

So, anyway, there's this plate, the Sky Night. And if they had to bail out, the crew didn't have an injector seat in the plane. What they had effectively was a slide. Oh, okay. Going down and back. Yeah, yeah. So you would just have to pop out between the engines of the plane. It's, I mean, this sounds incredibly risky.

You did, obviously, you'd have a parachute on when you did that, ideally. Yeah, how do I was. What's the next moment? It sounds risky. Are you sure you want to do this? This looks pretty risky. No, you're right. Let's die instead.

Let's just crash. I'll have the trick-in. But sometimes they use this plane to deploy commandos into the jungle. So you'd have one pilot and one commando in the plane. And at a certain point, the commando just pops down the slide. That's so cool. It sounds amazing. Yeah.

Did it work? I think it was incredibly dangerous. It wasn't used for long. And I think because it was. first using the A3D, which came to stand for all three dead, because that was three people who would be in the plane. And I think it took a long time because it was sort of behind the seat, so you realise you were going to crash and then you had to sort of clamber over. Yeah, it's really grim. Squeezing one after the other. Yeah, yeah. Even now they say if you

lose your phone behind the seats, you're not allowed to get it yourself. You have to get the attendant to come and get your phone for you. And that's in case you fall down the shoot when you're trying. It's just the last thing. If you love ejector seats and they look so cool. And I spent a lot of hours last night trying to find the most affordable one. But on eBay, they go... Why are you trying to eject others?

They look so cool. They sell them to just... Not go out your husband, dinner. Let me tell you an anecdote about Turkish Brass! Go on! Okay, it is time for fact number two and that is my fact. My fact this week is that there is a school in Massachusetts that has had all of its 7,000 light bulbs

permanently on for over a year and a half now. because no one knows how to turn them off. So this is a lighting system that was installed in Minichalg Regional High School, which is in Massachusetts. And the idea was they were thinking, how can we have a lighting system that's going to save us a lot of money? And they came up with this. They thought this is going to save us hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years.

Unfortunately. Because it happened to be very efficiently built. Yeah, there were LED light bulbs. It had dimming qualities on it. It was a great system that was energy efficient in a way that you, that usual light bulbs wouldn't be. And so they decided to go for the system. And then during the pandemic,

something in the system went faulty and failed, which meant that the lights weren't dimming. It meant they weren't going off altogether. It meant basically that close to 7,000 of these light bulbs were just remaining on. Then it was discovered that actually the hardware that was needed to fix it wasn't available and they needed to order it from China,

which had a backlog of orders so they couldn't get it over. So as we speak, it still hasn't been fixed. They know the problem. they've ordered the parts, they're arriving. I think they have them now, but they're not putting them in until March. And so... Because they need experts to come and put them in and they can't get them.

It is so mad. And because it's like taxpayer-funded school, obviously. So every day you have a reminder of what your taxes are going towards as you walk past this brightly illuminated school. And it's costing thousands a month. Because they turn the electricity off. Like, as in every night, when all the kids go away, you just... Yeah, you'd think so, right?

Maybe. Maybe there's health. and safety reasons why you can't do that. It feels like there must be something they can use that light for. Do you know what I mean? I mean, there must be a use at night. Put solar panels in that. Exactly, yeah.

That's how I actually, all my electricity in my house is I put solar panels underneath all my lights and then keep my lights on all the time. Yeah, so it's a big problem. It's costing them possibly tens of thousands of dollars at this point. I mean, it certainly has. and some of the teachers try to fix it by just taking the light bulbs out themselves. Yeah.

Does that work? It does, but, you know, they only take out three or four as opposed to the 7,000. You can't do that every night, can you? 7,000 bulbs? It's for those ceiling lights, you know, the recessed ceiling lights, they're at a complete pain in the else to get them screw.

Yeah, exactly. It's my two penny worth. Speaking of bad lighting systems, yeah. Actually, I had a little look in the Ine Fish inbox, podcast at QI.com just about, you know, see if anyone had written in about light bulbs.

Thank you, Paddy McCrae, who wrote in quite a while ago now. I hope you're still listening, Paddy. This is an incredible fact. It's about the Terminal 5 at Heathrow, right? Oh, yeah. Which has this beautiful high ceiling. Yeah.

Like the bulbs are all about 120 feet in the air. And between 2008 and 2013, no bulbs were changed in the ceiling because they didn't have a good way of doing it. And at that point, about 60% of the bulbs had gone. Oh, wow. And so the report

say that they hired a team of tightrope walkers because that was the only way that's so funny that car be true that's not true i'm pretty look take it up with the daily telegraph who reported that a cirque du solace style high level rope work firm had been engaged to change the balls but then they would do some of them and then some of them would be changed by someone in a human cannonball and they would be fired up and then other ones it would be trapeze guys pyramid of clowns just all doing one very very risky there yeah that's so I'm sure no one was in a costume at Hedroo. I was in Dubai recently, and there's lots of glass skyscrapers there.

And they're all, the window cleaners are all done by hand. So they have people who are literally like on ropes going down all of the highest buildings in the world. Yeah. Just cleaning them. That's a fun job. I've always thought that would be a fun job, actually. I've seen one of those harnesses. They call them rats because they're rope access technicians.

Ah. That's the nickname. The main company that does Birch Khalifa, which is the highest building, if you want to get a job there, they show you like a video nasty before you are allowed to apply. And they show you like really awful like examples of people who almost fell and stuff. And they're like, if you're okay with the video, then you can have an interview. Right. Do they show you Mission Impossible Four? In which Tom Cruise climbs up the Birge Khalifa.

And there's a sandstorm is there. Yeah, he's got some special sticky gloves and they stop working. And he looks behind them and there's a sandstorm approaching. and they go, oh, better climb a bit faster. Well, isn't he he responsible for making one of these guys have to do extra work? Because while he was up there, he graffitied Katie Holmes's name. Like, I love Katie Holmes. Yeah, yeah, and they had to go and clean that off.

Yeah. That's great. When they first had the electric lights, Edison's ones, you would have them in a building. Obviously, no one had seen them before. And so there would be a sign often next to them warning people not to try and light the light bulb with a match. Wow. I've seen one of these signs. it says this room is equipped with Edison electric light

do not attempt to light with match simply turn key on wall by door the use of electricity for lighting is in no way harmful to health nor does it affect the soundness of sleep does affect it if you leave the lights on all night you're going to have your sleep affected that's just a lie it was a lot they didn't know at the time they didn't know any better they didn't lights on all night

insomnia I didn't know why you had to have a light bulb like why you couldn't just why you needed the glass basically go on well it's it's because it'll react with the oxygen the filament to make a vacuum right yeah so if you have an incandescent bolt this is the old old fashioned you know pre-EU oh good okay okay oh good you're one of those

it's the one where you've got the bulb the tiny bit of wire and then you run the current through the wire and that goes it's because the filament would react with oxygen immediately and then burnouts really fast and if you as James says create a vacuum or fill it with an inert gas than it lasts longer. But I just didn't know actually why.

I had this moment yesterday where it's kind of an anti-light bulb moment where I was thinking, wait, hang on, why don't we just not have the bulbs? Save on glass. I saved so much glass. What would the safety be outside of that in terms of if you went and touched it

rather than burning us off? But you wouldn't electrocate yourself or? Yeah, and there's an electric current flowing through it. It's a small current, I think. But you would burn yourself. It's so hot. The heat is so cool. the level of heat that you have in your own room, again, if you're using an incandescent bulb,

which you shouldn't be, because obviously they're not as efficient. But that filament gets the 2,200 degrees centigrade. Isn't it so weird to think you're sitting in your sitting room, just biding your time, and there's something over there, which is that hot? And also the filament is so long when you look inside an old bulb. It's two metres long. Really? It's just really, really thin, 0.2 millimeters thick.

This is an old tungsten filament. In Babylon, ancient Babylon. Yeah. If you wanted to buy enough oil to light your front room with an oil lamp, you would have to work for 41 hours to burn for an hour. Oh, I see. So 41 hours work, you'd be able to buy enough oil to make your light bulb for one hour. Okay. That is rubbish.

In 1992, in America, you could get the same amount of light by working for less than one second. Wow. Imagine being a dad in ancient Babylon, you know, getting your family to go around, turning off the light. That has taken 40 hours of work. I've worked all week. Take one one hour. Come back into the room. No one's in the room.

So we've never mentioned, actually, the longest burning light bulb in the world. which is kind of incredible, the Livermore Centennial Lightbulb. It's been burning non-stop brackets with a couple of caveats, closed brackets, since 1901. And I think one of the keys to its success is that it's four watts. But it has to be on 24 hours a day because it's in a fire station, so it's to provide a bit of illumination for fire engines. And Guinness says there's been one break in its operation

when it was taken from one station to another in the 70s. And on that occasion, it had, apparently it says on its own website, a full police and fire truck escort to take it to its site. It's just the fire truck taking it to another place. You can't call that an escort if you're bringing your own thing. Escort implied to me there was like another fire truck running alongside it, kind of stopping anyone else from getting here, like a bodyguard. I'm more, for the longest light bulb in the world, I'm more interested in the fourth longest lasting light bulb in the world. because it was so this is a light bulb that is in New York City it's not there anymore but at the time it was outside a place called the Gassnick

Supply which was a hardware store and the owner Jack Gassnick he was the guy who was trying to get it acknowledged to be older than all of the other light bulbs right but to the point of like he was furious he was like there's no way that the Livermore light bulb is an actual genuine light bulb he wrote to Dear Abbey which was like one of those agony aunt things saying what do I do I've got a light bulb lasted longer. That must have been a nice day for Abby. He's normally writing about people having affairs and stuff.

She's like, oh, finally a light bulb. Yeah. And he wrote to Guinness saying, this is insane that you're given this record. It's clearly a fake light bulb. A fake light bulb? More like a cardboard cutout. He thinks something was going on. So he said that the bulb is not dark enough to have burned consistently.

So he said right away, I saw it was so clear. It does not show any sign of carbonization. A bulb that has burned 20, 30, 40 years would be extremely. dark from the carbon. Two, the bulb is a brass term knob socket. You can't have a bulb burn continuously in a brass turn knob socket. I strongly disagree. It would get so hot, it would burn the wires. Yeah, so there was a big challenge and no one accepted it. When you said this one isn't there anymore in New York, has it gone off? Or is it, do you know what's happened to it? The whole of that block, the half block was sort of taken down to the ground. So as far as we know,

this guy in a rage. No, by Livermore and it's mafia. There was a huge fire. You know when you like try and build a new house and they say, oh, sorry, there's some really, like there's some lizards here that are going extinct or something. It does feel like you shouldn't be able to knock down a house that has the fourth oldest light bulb in it. Yeah, absolutely.

Conservation. There is an older one in the UK, an older light bulb. Then the Livermore one. Is there? Yeah, but it just hasn't been on all the time. Oh, right. Some tragic person has just kept to use light bulb. Pretty much, yeah.

It's called the Edda Swan Lightbulb. It was first turned on in 1883 in Haitian in England, and it's owned by someone called Beth Crook, or at least it was when I read this article. But, yeah, they don't really turn it on very often. I think that's sensible. Yeah, special occasions. Well, some people think that the Livermore one has lasted so long

because it's never turned off. Yeah. Because when you turn some. something off sometimes it's like a surge of electricity and stuff that can damage the filament, whereas this has always had four watts just... I do that with my computer. Yeah. If I turn it off, I think horrible things will happen.

So I just keep flogging it on. I do the same with my car engine. Okay, it is time for fact number three. And that is Anna. My fact is that in 1955, one person secretly bought almost all the onions in America. this is a guy called Vince Kosuga and he was an onion farmer in the 1930s and he thought

I want to take this bigger and so he decided to corner the entire onion market of America by buying all of the onions and so then you know you've cornered the market you've got all the onions so you can absolutely control the price of onions but the thing I find so incredible about this

is that in order to stop word spreading because as soon as well word spreads that he's doing this then people selling him onions are going to go sort of i'm not not charged way more for these onions then it's not worth spending he would have had to do it completely in secret and make sure none of the onion sellers are talking to each other going did that guy vinz come through last so he would like just go in with a different mustache and a hat i think so what he especially bought he bought onions yes but he also bought onions before they existed potential onions yeah potential onions yeah potential onions he bought onion futures conceptual onions conceptual onions

The basic idea is you buy the right to buy the future onions for an agreed price. You say, I'll buy 10 tons of onions from you next year for a pound a kilo or whatever. And then you have to do that. Yeah. You're betting that the price will go up in that time and you've already made the agreement so you'll make the difference. And you could also be screwed though. You'd have to still stick to that price even if they were worth less at the time. But if you bought all the onions, you can charge whatever price you want.

Well, but then the weird trick he did was, as well as cornering the onion market, He didn't stop there. So he bought all the onions. And then he said to people who wanted to distribute onions, you're going to have to buy them off me for a huge price because I'm going to anyone with them. So they did that. He made shed loads of money there. And then he thought, sort of, I'm going to screw these guys over and flood the market anyway.

So then, stage two, he went to Chicago with all the onions left over in his warehouse, just lorryload after lorryload, dump them. It sounds like just on the streets and giant sacks. So flooding the market with onions. onions plummeting the onion price down. It must have been like onion Christmas. Everyone just walks outside and there's just onions everywhere. It's quite a shit Christmas actually, I think, isn't it?

Stocking filled with onions. Yeah, the reason he did that is because he was betting on onion futures. So he knew he was going to do this. So he bet that the price would go down. So he made $8.5 million at the time, money at the time, for the first initial selling back to the farmer. So he was kind of quids in anyway, right? Yeah.

So if you think about it, you've done this. scheme of buying all the onions. You've made a ton of money, but then you're left with all these onions, right? You need to get rid of the onions somehow, but also make money out of them. You could sell them at the normal price, or you could do this betting against the price going down thing. The betting thing was very clever, yeah. How amazing that he pulled it off just by the way.

This guy went around America and managed to successfully collect every single, virtually every single onion. I mean, he was brought into Congress because the farmers, once this scheme was discovered, and particularly this second bit that you were mentioning Anna about how he screwed them over. They said to their congressman, you can't have someone doing this. We've always said this is going to be the problem with future trading and so on. He's monopolized the market. This can't happen.

So it wasn't illegal though, but he was brought into Congress. And his lawyer said, make sure you just don't lie about anything. And they said, we understand you own 97% of the onions in the United States. And he said, that's incorrect, 98%. Like he was missing 2% of onions in the States. So onions are really good. They keep for a really long time. If you keep them dark and dry, they keep for months and months and months on them without going off.

But some of them did start to go off because he had lots and lots of onions in all these warehouses. And then supposedly, Kosuga, he had the onions reconditioned, to clean him up a bit, repackaged them. Send the few layers off and it all. Yeah, peel off the walls outside. And then they were sent back into all the warehouses in Chicago where they'd been stored in the first place. But that was assumed to be even more onions coming into the city. People didn't realize those were the same onions as before. People thought, oh my God, there are even more onions.

And the prices really collapsed then. And this onion mess that happened in Chicago, it sounds absolutely bananas. Orphans were receiving free onions in the streets. The Chicago River was just taking load after load of onions that were being chucked into it. Really? Yeah. The fish, breath, stank. Just years after.

They were like, Vince, why are you crying? You've just made millions of dollars. I'm a bit confused about why they were starting to be handed out to everyone. the price was nothing. But who's handing it out at this point? Well, let's say you run an orphanage and you want to feed your orphans, you're going to feed them with the thing that cost 10p for a million. Got it, okay.

All that is free in a sack that's been dumped on your... Not great fun for the orphans, actually, because once you've had 17 meals of just onion, then it gets old. It's very versatile. Yeah. I think onions's one of those... Oh, onions's one of those base foods. Who was it who said this about British cuisine?

I think it was Athena, actually, Athena Koublenu, our friend, And she said that basically every English dish begins with an English person cutting up an onion, putting it in a pan with some oil. And then we just decide what to do after that. Yeah, that's very true. Yeah. You can't leave it on its own, though, can you? It is very much a base. You know, you've got to touch something else in.

Onion soup. That's, yeah, yeah, they're the closest. Onion soup is probably the closest to a natural onion. Yeah, and really that's 90% cheese. So in 1958, President Eisenhower signed. the Onion Futures Act that meant that this could never happen again. And it bans anyone from trading in Onion Futures, basically, in the United States. But the Onion Futures Act also bans people from betting on the receipts of motion picture box office.

Oh, why? So according to the Onion Futures Act, you're not allowed to trade in Onion Futures or Motion Picture Box Office receipt features. Wow. So onions and minions. Two areas. Brilliant. And that was because in 2010, the Motion Picture Association of America

lobbied to stop people from being able to do these futures in motion pictures. And rather than doing a new act, they just sort of lobbed it on the end of this. I'm slightly confused about the aspect of motion picture box office receipts because it's the idea that I'll make... It's James Cameron doing this by basically saying, like, I'm going to buy the rights to all future Avatar movies.

And then he makes five Avatar movies flooding the market. That's pretty much what's happened. He controls all the Avatar movies. And then there are so many that they're being given away for free to orphans in the streets. I'm slightly confused about the way of... I thought it might be like a producers thing where you buy them up and then you make a deliberately shit film. And then it doesn't get any box office receipts and you bet against them. But there were some tax schemes that did that in the UK.

There were tax schemes investing money in. It's why there was a rash of particularly bad British comedy film. Well, it was actually the way that that worked is that you got tax relief if you invested in a British movie in the same way that if you gave money to charity you would. Yeah. And that's the avatar thing that we talked about with Wayne Rooney. Oh, yes. Yeah. And someone that James and I know from back in the day, Gareth Edwards, who made Rogue One, the Star Wars movie.

But his first movie that he made was called Monster. Yeah, it's a great film. It's a great film. And that was a tax scheme. That was the company that needed to offset some money. And that's how he was funded to make that movie. Well, that's the most entertaining tax scheme I've ever seen. Yeah, it was a really good film.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely brilliant. Nutmeg? What? The Nutmeg monopoly? Can we talk about that? Oh, right. I was looking up other historical monopolies. Yeah.

And the Spice Nutmeg was controlled by the Dutch for decades. Oh, a long time. I think they even, that's the thing they traded Manhattan for, the island of Manhattan. They said, no, the British had it. And then they said, no, we'll have that, sorry, they had it. And then the British said, we can. quite like an island. They said, well, we want this random spice island in the Pacific from you. Bander Island, was that or something? Exactly, exactly. The Banda Island in Indonesia and the Dutch

secured them. Not actually a bad deal, trading Manhattan for the spice island, because the sheer amount of value they extracted by controlling, you know, really fiercely the nutmeg trade, as in, you know, as with all colonial things, they treated the local people appallingly, killing people, importing their own farmers, all of this, like clearing the islands, planting their own trees and then they got the monopoly in nutmeg and for about 150 years they controlled nutmeg and clothes pretty much worldwide they had almost all the nutmeg and clothes on the planet it's kind of 98% of it and if you stole a nutmeg they'd they'd come after you they'd kill you they richly burned all their excess nutmeg every year in what must have been a lovely smelling yeah yeah

Christmas time come on yeah yeah and the markup was about 60,000 percent between source and street value of nutmeg. That's a good mark up. A good amount. And if you had a small sackful, you were made for life. Right. And this was just the bunch of Dutch people who got this island, basically. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. And this is before everyone knew it was bloody poisonous, so you shouldn't ode it. Isn't it? I have a distant memory of them also as a result having a monopoly over a certain type of drug as a result of nutmeg being used. I want to say MDMA.

They were basically the providers of MDMA as a. result of this. I think it I think well the monopoly was broken in the late 18th century so I don't know. Yeah no that's a certain way you can tell they are that was what caused the French Revolution actually they were all off their tit. Wow. Okay yeah and the man who broke the monopoly or one of the men who broke them off is a Frenchman who called Pierre Puevra who's named pleasingly is Peter Pepper. Peter Pepper yeah very nice. Good on him. And he um, he um, supposedly he nicked one of the trees out of the way that the Dutch hadn't spotted and made off with it.

And then seven years later, monopoly's broken, he's got nutmeg everywhere. What a shame his name wasn't Pierre Nuttmeg? There is a theory that Peter Piper picked a pecker pickle peppers is based on him. I like that. I'm not sure it's true. You can see where the theory came from. This fact is about sort of someone controlling a market. They're not being any competition.

Yeah. And it just reminded me of one of my favorite things. And I think I learned this listening to a Wondrium course ages ago, actually. But in medieval times, the guilds were really, really strong. So if you're trading produce in a town, you have to be part of a guild. This is in medieval England and France and not of other European countries. And if you weren't a member of the guild, you would not be allowed to sell your carrot or your bracelets or whatever. And only two things I can think of.

But yeah, the guilds were so strict. So they didn't want any competition between any of their members. You forget that capitalism today, everyone's in competition all the time. That was just anathema to them. So they dictated everything you used to make your produce. So if you're making your carrots, you have to make them with the tool that the guild says you have to make it with, using the exact techniques. You're not allowed to work more than a certain number of working hours. They'll monitor you.

Yeah, everything, machinery, everything. And then you get to market and you've done it exactly the same as everyone else. and you absolutely can't advertise, which means you literally can't draw attention to yourself at all. No. And there were guilds would forbid things like sneezing or nodding at passes by, because this was thought to be...

That must have been tough for the pepper guilds. The poor man from the itching powder guild have to stand ramrod still. That's amazing. I don't know how anyone sold anything, really. Okay, it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that in 1983, an autograph hunter wrote to Steve Jobs. Jobs replied saying that he didn't sign autographs, but he signed that letter, and it sold last year for half a million dollars.

That's incredible. Did he put the stamp one, put it through the postbox, and then go, oh, damn it! I think he was knowingly, it's written very much as it. for gag, I would say. You never know, though. He said, it's written, he says, I'm honoured you would write, but I'm afraid I don't sign autographs.

And it was sold at RR, Rctions. That's the letter R. I know my accent is a bit weird, but RR, auctions. So a pirate auction signs. And they suggested that perhaps it was a photograph or magazine enclosed in the original letter

and that he didn't sign that, as opposed to it being a joke. But I agree, it does sound kind of like, A joke, doesn't it? It does. I have an alternate theory about jobs. So I was reading a book from 1910 called Chats on Autographs by A.M. Broadly.

Just a little shout out to him. He'll be really great. And he relates in this book, the story of the Archbishop of York, who wrote back to an autograph hunter saying, Sir, I never give my autograph and never will, and then signed it. And maybe it was Steve Jobs doing a little tribute to that. Okay. The Archbishop of Yacht? One of them, yeah, I don't know which one.

Wow. Oh my God, and you're the first person ever to get that, and he's finally can rest in peace. Wow. He was a huge fan of the Archbishops of Northern England, wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've read a few times where people have tricked others into giving a signature in almost this Steve Jobs-esque kind of thing.

So, for example, Lee Harvey Oswald's mother, one of the ways that she used to make money after the, assassination was that she used to sell her signature to people and got to a point where selling her signature got her quite a good living if she could do it. But what people who would interview her would always trick her would be to get her to sign a release form to the interview that they'd filmed or whatever. And then that's how they would get their signature. So yeah, there's all these tricky ways, isn't there, of getting a celebrity signature if they don't give it. Because if you don't, we've mentioned Steve Martin. He has a card that he hands. Jonah Hill does the same thing.

instead of signing if you approach Jonah Hill he just hands a card saying I just met Jonah Hill it was a total letdown and that's just on his little business card there's a famous story of Dennis Lilly the Australian fast bowler cricketer who met the queen and asked for her

autograph so she was in Melbourne watching some test cricket and then he sort of queued up at her said can I get your autograph mate and there's actually a photo of him it's pronounced bam well in fact that the first time he met was earlier and I think he said, giree, how you going? And then chucked out his hand for a handshake.

So he had form with the queen. What's Prince Harry's child called? Archery or Lillibet. Lillibet. It's actually named after Dennis Lilly. Made such an impression. Well, he obviously did because he said, can I have your autograph. Someone took a photo actually of him holding out a notebook and pen and her looking a bit like,

probably not going to do that. And she said, no, I'm sorry, it's against protocol. But then a few weeks later He received in the post a photograph Of that moment when he asked for her autograph Signed by the Queen No way On people who refuse autographs

Friend of the podcast, George Jelliot She instructed her boyfriend, Henry Lewis, to write point-blank refusals To anyone who... Well, she would have to get a massive crayon She lit her huge hands In the room As novelty pencils, yeah Why? Why did she refuse?

She's busy. Middlemore She was quite confused About what her name was Wasn't she I'm like George My Marian Evans Have I got in another pseudonym now

Yeah Can I tell you someone who collected Autographs? Sure Yeah She had this cool thing I'd never heard of it before It was called an autograph fan

And it's literally a fan And every separate blade of the fan You write a different person's signature on Oh they write it Even better They write it on She was a great forger But I just love

the idea of Queen Victoria saying, can I have your autograph to someone? Yeah. It was mostly her children and prime ministers and things like that. Okay. That's pretty cool. Do we have the fans? Are they in? Wow.

I'd love to see those. Is that why they're called fans, people who ask for autographs? Yeah. It's a good, legit question, I think. No, I knew it was not. I know, but what are they called fans? Fanatical. Oh, yeah.

Or. Yeah. One of the most expensive autobiographical. you can get is of button gwynet If you ever have an autograph of button gwynet It will cost at least one million dollars At least Button Gwynet

Button as in the things that you fasten your Your clothes with And Gwynet exactly how you would expect to spell it Can we guess you're leaving as hanging as if maybe we could guess who this So it's obvious I reckon it's a Oh no it won't be a forger would it This is the most expensive signature It's not the most expensive but it will cost you at least

million dollars to get it. I think I know it. Ooh, go on. Is it Declaration of Independence? It's Declaration of Independence and most people have, or a lot of people who collect autographs of people who sign the Declaration of Independence will have 55 of the 56. But Button Gwynett is extremely rare. He died quite soon afterwards in a jewel. Someone called him a scoundrel and a lying rascal and he got on a Jewel and died. And so there's like maybe a dozen or half a dozen of his signatures out there. And if you want the full set, you're going to have to cough up at least a million dollars for it. It's like the rarest football sticker. Yeah. Put it in six packs across the hot country.

It's amazing because he's like the least famous, or one of the least famous ones, right? Yeah. But he's still. Quite a long way. Yeah, yeah. Although I was, well, I was skimming the Declaration of Independence and you haven't heard of most of them. Trust me. Skimming. Why were you? I happened to be seen because I was actually, I just like to remind myself of the principles on which the country is based. Everyone else on the buses on their phone. Anna's on her scroll.

I think if you're ever on pointless listener and it comes up, name someone from the Declaration of Independence, but and Gwynett has got to be. Oh, yes. This is a good one. I reckon most of you couldn't get me on the first six or seven. But anyway, the reason I was skimming it was because I was

wondering about her. I'm not sure I can get me on George Washington. John Hancock. Yeah. Just name the first few presidents. Ben Franklin, though, was he one as well? Was Gouverner Morris, who died? with a whalebone up his penis.

Yeah, he was. He was on there. Poor guy. John Abbott's just always got that extra sentence to his name. We've wrote it. We just had Ben Franklin. John Adams. Governor Morris, the guy had the whale bones

on his penis and died. Poor God. The English getting this declaration of independence and reading it going. It's a guy. It's actually part of his signature. They've just added it on afterwards. For anyone doubting who this is. John Hancock, this is why I was browsing it for this.

because I was thinking about hand. I wonder what interesting stuff there is about the John Hancock. Oh yeah. The signature, you know, buy word for a signature because he was the first person to sign it.

Yeah. And there's not much, but I hadn't really looked at the signatures there before. And it's really like, you know, if you sign someone's birthday card at work and someone writes their own name incredibly big.

It's amazing. Did you not know the rest of us were going to have to sign this? It's way more than twice the size of the second biggest. John Adams has just written, get well soon. Yeah. See you later.

lovely working with you. There's on just sport signatures. There's Luca Donchich is a basketball player. Genius. He's a big deal. He's a genius.

Mavericks. And his signature has been making the news lately because it broke a record for the most ever paid for a basketball card at public auction. Okay.

Wow. Get these specific cards called Logger Man cards or Logger Man cards is a thing in the basketball world where you have your MBA logo on this card from your jersey. It feels like it'll be Logo Man

then. does and yet some people say logo so you got your MBA logo or your NBA logo yeah it just depends where you come from isn't it anyway are you going to ask us to guess yes okay fine well that wasn't going to be part of it but sure so that sold most ever paid public auction for basketball card how much you think for

November 22 $75 yeah well Steve Jobs half a mill, button-gwinnit over one million. I'm going to say it would be somewhere in between the two. I'll go for $700,000. I like that you've done that. You undershot it, and it's very generous of you. So it went for $3.12 million and actually sold in private the year before for $4.6 million,

which doesn't play the person who's lost. In a year as well. What makes you think you've got this card that you paid $4 million for? And a year later, you're like, You know what, I'm going to sell it for three million. What goes through your head? They must have come upon really hard times suddenly. I think what it was is it was initially bought by Vince Kasuga and then he sold it,

but then flooded the market with all his other Luca signature. The orphans of Chicago were receiving so many of these bloody basketball cards. Anyway, this is the thing I really like about this, which makes me want to laugh in the face of whoever bought it, is that his signatures keeps changing and it's changed a lot since his teens, and there's a lot of chat that actually it's not his signature. He's had his hand replaced. Is that it? You're so close.

Oh, the basketball has crippled his fingers over the years and it's changed the way he writes his name. Someone's just forged it. That's the claim. He's died and been replaced by another. Someone's just forged it. Okay, I think James has just said the... No, no, keep going on it. Keep going on.

People think he's got the Lucas signature, which is his old one, and the Lula one, which is his new one, because it's more feminine. Since he became president of Brazil. It's like he'd been replaced by the president. That's the conspiracy theory. I love it. And as Dan says, he's a genius, so I think he's going to do a pretty good job. Sorry, it's actually called the Lulu one. Since he was replaced by the 80s, singer.

There's been a body swap comedy somewhere. And anyway, it's thought that it's his mother's signature. Ah, really. Someone else did that. And in fact, we were talking about presidential signatures, Ronald Reagan. But when he was an actor, not when he was president. he got his mum. I think he paid his mum

or he asked the studio to pay for his mum to sign all of his fan mail. And it's now believed that pretty much everything he wrote from the late 1930s to the late 1950s is suspect. You can't trust any signature from that time. It's not authentic. Even his Christmas card was probably

him getting his mum to do it all. You know, the whole Berlin Wall thing and everything. That was actually his mum. It was all his mum now. I'm so glad you clarified it. I thought what you meant, Anna, was not that his mum had ridden the fake signature but that he'd changed his signature

to his mum's signature. Well, that's because when he was at school, they sent a letter back saying that he couldn't do his homework. He used to practice his own sick. You knew inside out, yeah. I'm in the category of autograph collector to a certain degree. Yeah, I like the occasional. Yeah, if I could find one. And I brought in a few of my favorite from my collection just to show you.

So, first of, I've just, you guys can't see what I can see the dance bag from where I'm sitting. And I know the story behind this time. So the first thing I have is a signed. Beatles drumstick from the drummer of the Beatles. Okay. Yeah. Pete Best, who was the original... Ah, you've got the Pete Best.

That's so cool. Yeah, so I don't remember buying this. I woke up one day and in the post came it. And it turns out I was drunk in a car. And on the way home, I bought a piece of first. You've got to stop doing that. Don't drink and drive and eBay. So that's the first thing.

So drummers love to sign a stick. I like when signatures are a... appropriate to an item, you know? This I found in a secondhand bookshop, and I know I've shown you guys this before, but for the listener, what it is is a signed Stephen Hawking book. Now, how would Stephen Hawking do his signature? Kiss, I was thinking, like put lipstick on him and kiss the... It's kind of close.

It's not too far away. What they used to do was, is his assistant would dip his thumb into some ink. So I have the thumbprint of Stephen Hawking, and it says, thumbprint of Stephen Hawking witnessed by Susan Maisie who must have been his assistant or nurse at the time it says I never give my thumbprint out and I will not be doing so on this occasion so that's quite cool I found that for five quid in a second end bookshop here's the last one which is interesting this is a baseball

baseball signed by a hall of famer called Gaylord Perry yeah who is someone I'm fascinated with but we won't go into it now but what's interesting about this is you can get baseballs that are worth more if they're signed in certain ways. So this is worth more than most baseballs would be if he'd signed it differently. So can you guess why this is worth more signed by Gaylord Perry? Spelled his name wrong? No, no, correct spelling. So he signed it.

There are two seams, or there's one seam, isn't it, that goes all the way around? And he's signed it in the nice bow beautifully between the point where the two seams are closer to each other. So that's the first thing. That's absolutely right. So this is what's known as the sweet spot of a baseball. You can get a long signature right across without having to break it up. Nothing gets in the way.

The other thing is that it's a official ball American League, which is not the NLB. NLB, right? So this would be worth less because it's an official Major League Baseball. So that shoots it down. It has his details, Hall of Famer, 91 on it. So if anyone's a world champion, a World Series champion or whatever, if they add the detail, that's going to make it more.

And then the last thing, like if you put your name, address, phone number, or Twitter handle. It gets better and better. So there's one more thing. It's specifically to do with the signature that makes this worth more than a different baseball signature. Is it because it's blue? Absolutely. It's blue ink. It looks nicer with the red scene.

It will also stay on longer than black. Black will rub off, according to the experts who auction baseballs off. I have assigned American football by Colin Kaepernick. Oh, yeah. Which I got when he was an American footballer and now he's a civil rights guy, right? Right. But it's signed in like silver writing. And to be honest, I'm not sure it'll last for another, you know, 10 years.

I think it'll all rub off. Yeah. Still, it's so nice to get a signature. You can say, I got it on who is American football and now he's a civil rights guy rather than now he's a pedophile. And now he's in prison for massive tax world. Okay, that's it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening.

If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course of this podcast, we can all be found on our Twitter accounts. I'm on at Shriverland, Andy, at Andrew Hunter, Edm, James, at James Harkin. And Anna. You can email podcast.com. Yep, or go to our group account, which is at no such thing or our website. No Such Thing is afish.com. All of our previous episodes are up there.

Also check out the portal to Clubfish, our secret little behind the scenes land, where we add bonus content all the time and have lots of fans chatting to each other. It's a great place. Check it out. Otherwise, come back next week. We'll be back with another episode. We'll see you then. Goodbye.