No Such Thing As A Fish - No Such Thing As Darts Vader

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

James, Anna, Andy and Paul Sinha discuss cinematic blockbusters, celebrities going for gold, some questionable sport, and Martin Luther King's family's fortunes. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes. Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

Hi everyone. We've got a very special, very exciting guests on the show today. Someone we've wanted to get on for a long time. That's the brilliant comedian, Paul Sinner. He was absolutely hilarious on the show, as predicted. He is, of course, a comedian as well as being a champion, quizzing mastermind on such things as The Chase. And he's got a book out with possibly the best title for a book ever, One Sinner Lifetime. See what he's done there. And that too is fantastic. It's very, very funny. It's also very moving. It's a memoir. It's about his really truly fascinating and up and down life. I would highly, highly recommend it. That's one sinner lifetime. Look it up. Get it now. Hope you enjoy the show. We had such a good time with him. Welcome to another episode of No Such Things of Fish. A weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoban. My name is Anna Tyshthinsky and I'm sitting here with Andrew Unter Murray, James Harkin, and a very special guest, Paul Sinner. Hi, Paul. Hello, this is very exciting for me. Finally made it through the door. Well, it's great to have you.

And we are here again with our four favourite facts from the last seven days. And in no particular order, here we go, starting with you, Paul. Well, it's the Olympics at the moment. And so this is tangentially collected to the Olympics. I've always been fascinated by the Olympics and what it means to people. but I'm perhaps more fascinated by people who've taken part in the Olympics and it's nowhere near the biggest thing that's happened to them in their lives. So this is a man called Michel de Carvalio,

and I can say it with almost absolute certainty that you won't know that Michel de Carvalio was both a British Olympic skier and a British Olympic lusia. But several years after his sporting career came to an end, he got absolutely lucky by marrying the person who is now the Netherlands richest, not woman, But person, the heir to the Heineken Empire, Charlene de Heineken. He married her.

So he's worth billions, which is good. But that's not the greatest fact about Michel de Carvalier. The greatest fact about Michel de Carvalio is he achieved a fame before he was an Olympian. He is the only surviving cast member of Lawrence of Arabia. As a kid, he was a child actor. He appeared as Peter O'Toole's friend and child servant. Farage, I think his name was. Really?

Spelled the spell differently And he's always sort of like sending other like tribespeople back to their traditional land where they're going from Yeah yeah it's a very uncomfortable bit of course He was in Lawrence Arabia And he's not even that old now I think he's in his 70s

What's next to come? You know he's done Lawrence of Arabia Olympics Married the richest person in the Netherlands Strictly That's it That's the only thing left It's the only amount left to conquer

But it's part of a fascination I have With people for whom Oh yeah they were in the Olympics as well as a side category of things they've done. I wonder what she's most proud of. I mean, I think in preparation for this, Andy, in fact, you may have browsed a bit of Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah, Andy sent us a message of WhatsApp at 11pm saying,

I'm just starting to watch Lawrence of Arabia, and we know that 11 p.m. has passed his bedtime anyway. Already I was pushing, you know, I shouldn't have had the Oval team before I started watching. Were you searching for female characters? Not very long Right, so just before we start Yes, okay, I am currently Halfway through Lawrence of Arabia

If I've been watching rear window I would have finished it by now, but I wasn't I'm about two hours in And I'm watching the proper version Which is three hours 47 So please can nobody spoil the end of the First World War for me I don't want to know how it ends Happily

There's a bit of a spoiler at the beginning though Isn't it? The film begins at the opening scene Is him getting on his motorbike and then dying? Oh no way! Whipan back to it Has anyone else seen Lawrence of Arabia? No.

A long time ago. Okay. So when I was a kid, I was made to watch it, and I willfully forgotten it. Do you remember this boy, Carvalio, this friend? Yeah. He's a big character. Is he? Yeah, yeah. There are two sort of manservants or sort of like the kind of teenagers, their kids who are following him around and, you know, they love him and they want to be with him.

They follow him into the desert on their camels. Oh, my goodness. There are so many camels. I'm sorry. If you like camels. I mean, it fails the Bechtel test, tragically, because the two female camels in it taught nothing. Nothing other than their life. love life. There is not a single woman in it. Like with a speaking role, right? In the first half.

There's a bit where they're setting off into the desert, all the men, and there are some women seen wailing from a distance, but they're seen at such a distance that you can't tell. You really can't tell. They're shot in silhouette as well and from behind. I mean, yeah, those are the only female voices that have made their way into the films I find. I think, because as you've mentioned, you watch the proper one and there are various versions. And I think in the longest, one, which was released in about the early 80s, I think, which was the original one that David Lean wanted to release.

I think there are some women in the big massacre scene. Apparently there are some female corpses. Maybe they'll do a remake, you know, like with Ghostbusters. And all-female... All-female, Lawrence of Arabia. I love it. Laura of Arabia. Well, that was one of the famous quotes about it, was after the premiere. I think it was Noel Coward. He approached

Peter O'Toole, who is unbelievably good-looking in the... He's really... He's just sort of beautiful. and Noel Cowell went up to him and said if you'd be named after Britain they'd have had to call it Florence of Arabia But it's very good though It's very good

It's a cinematic masterpiece But it's not one you'd watch twice No It's one of those ones where you watch it And you're like oh that's where they got Dune from Oh that's where Star Wars comes from Oh mad Max That's all like it's all

Is it all really? Yeah yeah you can see it sort of Are you just saying that You've just named a bunch of films That's sort of set in the desert Are you just saying that Because they said That's just cool

Priscilla. Phrysula. Yeah, okay. Yeah. One of the things Lawrence Arabia is responsible for is the King of Jordan. This is nice?

Oh, yeah. So I think current King of Jordan was conceived as a result of this film. Did you find out of that effect on you, Andy? No. That's a long time, isn't it? Three and a half hours.

You get bored. Oh, another camel. There's genuinely one camel journey which takes 40 minutes. Is there? And it is with brief interruptions for conversation, but it is almost all camel.

I don't know what you're expecting from a film called Lawrence of Rue. You're right, you're right, you're right. It's not enough car chases. Well, it starts with a very exciting motorbike scene. Yeah, true. And I thought, oh, great, it's just going to be chopper action. So, King of Jordan's parents, looked at it. Speaking of Humps, darling.

Brilliant. And then... It's King Hussein of Jordan, the previous one. He had lent a load of his soldiers to the film. So lots of the people you see as extras in the film, playing soldiers are soldiers from the Jordanian army. And he visited the set, because he was very keyed, he was an enthusiast,

and he fell for a young, woman, a British secretary who was working on the film. Obviously not in front of the camera. She was called Antoinette and they got married in 1962. The year the film came out and their eldest son became the king of Jordan in 1999. Abdullah.

Abdullah II. So that's a happy ending. So the movie's based on a book Seven Pillars of Wosome which is T.E. Lawrence is biography. Alpsiography, yeah. Yeah, we should say he was a real guy.

Just in case any listeners don't know who T.E. Lawrence was. He was a British intelligence officer and he'd been an archaeologist and a photographer in Arabia. He loved the area so much. And then during the war, he joined the army, became an intelligence officer. And his big thing was, he was lobbying for Arabian independence, but it turned out the sort of the British and French had already kind of carved up the area. There was an agreement called the Sykes-Picco agreement and sort of dividing the Arabian world into spheres of influence. So he felt very, very let down after the war because his Arabian cause had been betrayed

and he felt like he'd let everyone down but he's a really really interesting guy And what happened to that is Sykes-Pico agreement I believe it all ended up well in the end Have you seen Lawrence of Arabia too? Is the one? There is one. Oh, genuinely.

There's a sequel film. This ghost emerges from the motorcycle. It's called A Dangerous Man. Lawrence after Arabia. Okay. A straight video. Oh yeah. Early 90s.

It's him at the... It's him in Paris. It's Lawrence in Paris, basically. Guess who plays? There's just a casting guess. Lawrence in the 90s version of Lawrence Arabia. Paul Nicholas. I don't know who that is.

Was he in Eastonnes? Yeah. Paul Nichols. He was my first ever crush. I'm just good friends. Not Paul Nichols. Although they're both in East End. Well, actually, it was Ross Kemp.

You're very glad. No, no, no. No, poor were the Ross Kemp. It's perfect casting for, if you're trying to cast, Piss and Blue Eyes, golden shimmering hair. Patch up. Oh, close. Ray Fines.

Oh, Ray Fines. And it's like very young, very handsome Ray Fines being, you know. The real Lawrence of Arabia looked nothing like that. It was five foot five, very unprepossessing looking. Was he really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just on the film Lawrence of Arabia, which I think was much more fun to be involved in than the actual being Lawrence of Arabia. They had a whale of a time. Peter O'Tall and Omar Sharif had so much fun together and ended up great friends. and Peter O'Toole, who claims he slept with 133 women in his life, true to form on that film. Him and Omar Sharif had women flown out for them at weekends.

There were none present ones. They must have been so gutted when they took the first look at the cast. You are kidding me. Oh, no, these are all camels. Sorry, they're all called flossie, but they are all camels. Wow. No, they did. They had a great time. And Omar Sharif sounds like such a fun character.

He was from Egypt, and he was sent to a... British school there because he was fat and the British food was so bad his parents thought this will get him thin. That schools in the world. He'll small him out. His grandson said he had two areas of expertise, Bridge and sex. And he actually taught his grandson about the birds and the bees. And he said, making love is like playing bridge.

You either need an incredible partner or a really good hand. Oh, really strong. And you only need four people. When I was a kid, I think he did the bridge column in the Sunday time. magazine. Really? Amoshaerif? No way.

When I say he played bridge, he played bridge. I mean, he's one of the best players in the world. No way. Oh no, that's a proper polymath. Olympians? Yeah, yeah. Unusual weird Olympians? Yeah, go for it.

Bob Anderson. The Darts player? No. This is it probably. You know so many people, Paul. I know. If I say any two names. Well, it's interesting, was Bob Anderson, the world darts champion of the late 80s or early 90s.

He was a junior javelin for us. I thought maybe I've missed. the fact that you've gone to the Olympics. No. Actually, I know where you're going with this, Andy, because I found this as well. We're looking for someone who used an item which is longer than a dart and shorter than a javelin.

A knife and fork he did eating at the Olympics. But the same shape as both. Yes. God, that's a very good clue. Yeah, yeah. I'm just, my mind is blown from the fact there's a Bob Anderson who did darts and javelin. What the hell?

And then there's someone in the middle who did something in between. So this Bob Anderson, who's not a dart or a javelin player, He was an Olympic fencer. Bingo. And he was also in a movie doing what? For lightsavers. Bingo. You played Darth Vader.

Oh, wow. He's the third man who played Darth Vader. Wow. He did all the fight scenes with the lightsaber as in the big costume. I think I would like to see Darth Vader throwing darts, actually. Darts Vader? There's his, and there's his nickname for the hockey. Brilliant.

How did I not get that? And did they hire him solely on his fantasy? skills. I suppose Darth Vader, he doesn't have a face doesn't he, so he always faces cover. So you don't need to be able to act. Well, he was a major Hollywood sword fighting choreographer so he did loads and like he choreograph fights and sometimes he did the fights himself

if it was a costume thing and it was because he'd been a fenceer and is. He worked on the Three Musketeers, the Princess Bride, the Mask of Zorro, Lord of the Rings and die another day. Which were all inspired by Lawrence of Arabia, weren't they? Odd job in Goldfinger. Yeah, I know about that one. Olympian? Yeah.

No, 48. Not the famous dance throw, right? Right? Hold on. Was it him who threw dots? 48 was like he throws his hat. He throws his hat. Sorry. Discus. That's not exactly how you throw a discus, how he throws his hat. He sort of curls it. He throws it frisbee style. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I said it friscus is the other way around.

Yeah, yeah. So he was a weightlifter, wasn't he? Yeah, that's right. Silver medalist, actually. Silver medalist is 48. I always like how, who's the guy in the goonies, the, hey you guys, that guy. He was an American football player and won two Super Bowls. Oh, wow. The guy who plays...

Is it chunk? I've not seen the goonies. Have you not seen the... Oh, no. Okay, if you want to see classics. The goonies. Alan Turing? Almost an Olympian.

Turing? Very close. Chess? Chess? Yeah, no, actually. He was really fast runner. He came fifth in the Amateur Athletics Association marathon in 1948,

almost qualifying him for the Olympics. And he actually did beat in a running race the silver medalist that year. Wow. What year? 48. 48 is a big year. It was Andre Agassi's dad

boxed for Iran. What did he? Andre Agassiz dad represented Iran at boxing in 1940. I remember, Paul, you posted on social media once about Andre Agassi and Ginger Rogers. What's that fact?

Ginger Rogers played in the US Open tennis mixed doubles. Did she do it backwards and in high heels? It's really bizarre. Yeah, yeah. I mean, she wasn't that good of tennis player.

She just happened to take part one year. And her partner was Brooke Shields's grandfather or something? Something very odd, yeah. Who was married to Andre Agassiz. Something really, really odd. So weird. So, sorry, 1948 had odd job. Andre Agassiz's dad.

Was odd job 48? 48. 48. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. O'Donogs his dad was 48. Yaroslav Drobley, who won Wimbledon for Egypt. were men's singles for Egypt in the 50s,

played ice hockey for Czechoslovakia in 48. We are getting more obscure now, aren't we? And almost Alan Turing. Almost Alan Turing. And then I've managed to find somebody who was in the Olympics in 1948, and it's not even mentioned on his Wikipedia page. Oh, okay.

A guy called Andre Vortekin, who is an engineer who designed the Atomium in Brussels. No. The man who designed the Atomium in Brussels played field hockey for Belgium in the 1948 Olympics. And the first ever international no such thing as a fish gig was

is in Atomium and Brussels. We brought it home. We think it's based on Atom but it's actually just six hockey balls in, apparently. Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that Samuel L. Jackson once locked Martin Luther King's dad

in an upstairs room, then gave him a ladder to escape out of the window. we're back to connections. Have yes. Oh yeah. So this is at Morehouse College, which is a black American college, and there was a student protest there. And Samuel L. Jackson, he's a very active student, and he's protesting the idea that it's this black college, but they're being sort of groomed to be very successful in a very mainstream kind of white society way. So it's extremely high achieving Morehouse College.

It's, you know, it's turned out for extraordinary people. And I think their demands were things like, look, we want a black college. Studies Program. We want a black board of trustees, uh, involvement with black communities. So a black board of trustees, not a black board of trustee. It is an educational establishment. We all together. That's where the confusion arose. And so they bought loads of black boards. And then, yes, a black space board of trustees. And anyway, they decided the best way to achieve this is to kidnap the members of the board. And one of them was Martin Luther King's dad. And so they kidnapped them and they locked them upstairs. I think it was two stories up. And they bought Paddle

And they took chains from keep off the grass signs on campus to sort of padlock them in. And then Martin Luther King's dad, Martin Luther King's senior, started getting chest pains. And quite heartlessly, in the interview I read with Samuel R. Jackson, he was like, well, look, we didn't want to unlock any of the doors because the protests had to go on. So instead, they got the ladder that the neighbouring girls school had used to climb up to that window as part of the process. Put it up to the window. Said to him, slide down that, mate, take yourself to a doctor. And so he did. And they were connected Samuel L. Jackson and the King family, weren't they?

Yeah, they were. I know he was at the funeral. He was at the funeral. He was a pallbearer, Samuel L. Jackson, at Martin Luther King's funeral. Because he'd been involved in student protest and student politics and black activism and all that kind of stuff. And the funeral happened at this college. Yeah, yeah. He was very politically active Samuel L. Jackson for a while. He was actually made to leave Atlanta because the FBI were after him.

Really? This is amazing story where the FBI came and knocked on his mom's door and they said, said, get your son out of Atlanta or someone's going to kill him. And he went to LA. And that was sort of boy he picked up some show business. That's amazing. All I know about him is he likes playing golf. Does he?

Yeah. Have you got a list? I mean, I know one very important fact about him. Go on. Which is that when I was on a final chase once, I was asked, what is Samuel L. Jackson's middle name? And I went, L.J.oy. And Bradley said, correct.

And I've never felt more ashamed at getting a question right in the final change. I felt I'd been rewarded for Rachel L. spiritually stereotyped in a way that didn't justify reward. He had a stutter as a child as well. Yeah. He said that the one word that he says to get him out of a stutter is... Oh, I know what this is. Snakes?

Snakes. Is that what you associate Samuel Ljaxon with snakes? What's the word you associate with snakes? Snakes on a plane. Okay, what's the other word? I've got to get these snakes off this plane. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

These days he doesn't stutter as much, but if he ever does start stuttering, all he has to do is say that word and it will get him out of it. Okay, I read this on his IMDB is that he has his own wig consultant and I did a little bit of digging. I don't think it's his own wig consultant because I don't think he's on an exclusive contract

with Samuel Lowe Jackson. Okay. No, he does wigs for loads of people, doesn't he? He does wigs for loads of people. He just had lots and lots of ones green hair dues. If you say my agent, they might be agents for other people as well but they're still your agent.

That's true. Yes, but if I said I have a plumber, it'd be weird. Wait, what do you mean? The same thing applies, Andy. Your own plumber is not exclusive to you, is he? You say, my plumber came round. Yeah, but it would be weird if someone wrote a fact sheet

about me saying he has his own plumber. Elton John is probably the only person I can imagine has his own plumber. Yeah, exactly. Not even the king. Elton John. Anyway, so I looked up this guy, this hair consultant and stylist, and he's worked for loads of famous people. Anyway, his name is Robert L. Stevenson.

Guess what the other stands for? It's Louis. He's not. What but Louis Stevenson? That's brilliant. Yes, he is named after the Treasure Island author. Is he really? Yeah.

Well, you must be. Like, there's no way you would accidentally come up with that name. He was only the third male hairstylist in the Hollywood Union. Really? Yeah. So, just stick that in your pipe and smoke here. I could have sworn he was the first. You think you know a subject.

It's amazing what you learn on this show, isn't it? Just think it. On a more serious note, I didn't realize until I was reading about me, His life was in ruins, wasn't it? It's cocaine and heroin. It made me think that perhaps this is what we need to be doing for all drug addicts. Make them into Hollywood stars. Make them into film stars.

Are you saying you should go down to the job centre? Or at the job centre, when people come to you, they say, I'm in a real difficult place. Addict to a drug, I'm unemployed. The advice should be, have you considered becoming a film star? What jobs have you got? Well, we've got a role playing Prince Faisal. I'll play Lawrence, thank you very much. And the other thing is he wasn't considered an especially good actor

until he got into films. His career wasn't really going anywhere in particular. Who, SLJ? SLJ. From SLJ to MLK? Yeah. Good segue. Nice.

Love it. He tried to get sent to school a year early and was foiled by the teacher when he accidentally mentioned that it was his fifth birthday was coming up. Was he responsible for registering himself? That's cool. Was it like those First World War things where you say, I'm 14 and they say,

well, walk around the block. Tell me you're rating when he come back. Well, it's nice about that if he was, then he's proved that he's precocious enough to do it in the first. Exactly. They put him straight into sixth form. It was him and his dad, senior, in fact, sort of plotted together to get him let in because he was keen to go to school. Was he keen to school to school or was his dad keen to get him out of the house? Because I can think of any reason I would send my daughter to school early and that would be it. He kept telling his dad about his dreams.

It was so annoying. No one cares. Other people's dreams. Boring. He said his main weaknesses were food and women. So there's... 50% there. Which pissed off his dad, actually. He said this as a grown man, not as a five-year-old.

Because if a five-year-old boy said that to me, you'd call the social, wouldn't you? He was precocious. No, he was a... He had a lot of affairs, didn't he? He did. And he loved to dance. Food, women, dancing.

Love to dance a jitterbug, which I think we might have talked about the fact it was very controversial, and his dad once, cringe, turned up when he was dancing the jitterbug in front of a bunch of women, seized him and drank.

dragged him off the dance floor. Wow. This is another really bizarre connection, much like the King of Jordan being due to Lawrence of Arabia. Abdullah II. Yep. Martin Luther King is responsible for Julia Roberts existing. Is that true?

It is. So someone had sex while he was doing this speech? He, no. He... I had a dream. Richard Gere came along. He paid for the hospital bill when she was born. Really?

He's not responsible for her being born. but her parents are. But he paid it because her parents had an acting school in Atlanta and they had been very welcoming to King's own children. So the families knew each other. And so when Julia Roberts was born, Martin Luther King stumped up for the bills. See, he's contributed so much. Yeah.

Yeah. The non-violence sort of element of King's philosophy was really interesting. The Montgomery bus boycott was a really famous one of his campaigns. And it wasn't initially planned as a Gandhi-style campaign of non-violence. But after the Rosa Parks, after she was arrested on the bus, the campaign was kind of adjusted. And he hadn't originally known much about Gandhi or Gandhi's campaigns, which were famously nonviolent.

He had lots of guns, for example. He once applied for a permit to carry a concealed weapon because he was very worried about his safety, correctly. But once in 1962, at one of his events, one of his rallies, a 200-pound white Nazi party member called Roy James jumped on stage and hit him in the face, at which point he lowered his hands and kept talking and spoke calmly

and didn't try to protect himself even when he was hit again. It's quite striking reading about the... It is. The extent of his commitment to nonviolence and showing nonviolence in front of a large audience. I mean, I'm not going to defend this man, but £200 is not that big.

No, you're right, it's not actually. I don't know. I mentioned it. I'm apologised. I fat-shamed a Nazi, and I shouldn't have done... Yeah, yeah. No, fair enough. Wow, why have I come out as the bad guy? That's someone who's been £200. I take a massive offence.

I actually, I don't know what £200 is in old money. 14, 14 stone, four. Oh, that's nothing. Okay, sorry. £200 is old money. It's just lower denominations, isn't it? Okay, okay. It's just going to buy it by 14.

Sorry, I wouldn't have bothered saying a 14 stone. Nazi stone because that's totally ordinary. In fact, Martin Luther King may have been bigger. We don't know. Yes, a good point. Okay. Personally, I still think it's impressive. But I take your point, everybody, thank you.

The way my brain works as well, I can't get rid of the fact that the march depicted in the film, Selma, the march from Selma to Montgomery, is the most famous march that was from one Simpsons character to another Simpson's case. That's a good point. That's what it was really about. That's very funny. I just have a thing on random celebrity connections that actually, it feels something. so trivary. I wonder if Paul those about it. Do you know what the Erdos Bacon number is? Oh yeah. Paul Erdos, the mathematician and Kevin Bacon.

Yeah, this is so cool. The Star of Footloose and the possible reason I'm gay. Interesting. Having watched Footloose at a very tender moment in my life. Yeah, it's a combination, isn't it? And someone really famous has got an Erdosch Bacon number of two or three. Is it Natalie Portman? That's so good. It's not two or three would be a lot.

But Natalie Portman, yes. Isn't that you add them together? Yeah. Yeah, so it's like if you've been in a paper with Paul Aedosch or someone who's been in a paper with him or if you've been in a film with Kevin Bacon or someone who's been in the film with him. Exactly.

So how many connections do you make between Paul Aadosh and Kevin Bacon? And as you say, Natalie Portman has an Airdosh Bacon number of, I think it's seven, but it's still good. It's pretty good. She's the only celebrity I could find who was a genuine academic and that's her connection

because she actually wrote a paper when she was in school. There is another one as well It's much more obscure She played Winnie in the Wonder Years I'm pretty sure that the actress who played Winnie In the Wonder Years Has an Erdos'n' number of some description

Is she the one with dark hair in the Wonder Years? I think so, yeah She's the reason that I'm straight out Because that was on when I was like five years old Or something And is she an academic Or was she like Was there a consultant on the film or something

She's definitely done a maths paper Either with him or one connection to him Cool because I thought the most furious one was Colin Firth, who has an Erdorf-Baker number of six, because he's credited as co-author of a neuroscience paper after he suggested on Radio 4 that a study could be done about it. So he mentioned Radio 4, hey, someone should look into this.

The title is, political orientations are correlated with brain structure and young adults. So I haven't actually heard the bit on Radio 4, but I'm guessing he says, oh, I wonder if people were different political views, his brains look different. Should we talk about my... And they accredited him. And they accredited him as co-author, yes. Fair enough. You came up with the thing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.

Credits a credit. One of Martin Luther King's long-term lovers was dot cotton. What? Excuse me? Her name was dot cotton. Her name was Dorothy Cotton. It wasn't it not cotton from EastEnders. I think of her is the sort of reason that you're straight, Andy, someone like her. Okay, it's time for fact number three, and that is Andy.

My fact is that top football teams sometimes travel with their own growth. ass. And you're referring to the drug? No. The surface. Oh, I was thinking of people who tell tales. Oh, yeah. Their own cop as nark.

I would say John Terry was probably one. Oh, yeah. Do you have the feel of a copas narque about it? It's probably a long-term undercover cop. Try to expose, I don't know, socialism. No, they take great. This is so weird. Okay, so this happened just now.

had a tournament, right? It was, what was it? The Euros? Well, you don't like to talk about it, but yeah, it was the Euros. But you did it right, didn't you? Anyway. Are you being Scottish now? I think I am.

Oh, well, you don't want to be Scottish in the Euros. This was an initiative by the FA. So they had a pitch in Blankenhine, which is where their training camp was. And that was seeded in April, some months ago, with turf that was used in London. And I guess it was London seed as well, Wembley seed. It was full-size pitch, fertilised level, given a haircut. So they were training all. Isn't that strange?

Why wouldn't you train on what you're actually going to play on? Well, exactly. I think it's pathetic, to be honest. I think if you can't play on a range of stuff, this, what's the point of, like, what is the point of this? How they've not got you as a sports pundit. 6.06 special with Andrew Hunter-Murray. That was quite Roy Keene, though, wasn't it?

That's pathetic. But it worked. Regardless of the logic, it worked. That's a good point. Because they did very well. A huge waste. Well, I mean, I'm sure that grass is now being enjoyed at this hotel or golf resort or whatever it was. What was there before?

Probably some different grass. Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, sorry. I'm not sure people are enjoying anyone now. They ship that grass over to Wembley Stadium. It's now only good for golfing, actually, because it was a golf hotel, though. The different grass makes big difference in golf, I have to say. If you go to play golf in Florida and they have what's called Bermuda grass, and then you play in Scotland, it's a very different feel.

And you're normally in the rough, aren't you though, James? If you're not in the bunker, you're in the sort of long grassy base at the edge, hacking away. Don't try the golf banter with me, young man. But it's much more tangly and it's got more of a grain to it. So if you try and hit against the grain in Bermuda grass, then it's actually quite difficult to get the club through the ball. Whereas if you play in Fescue in Scotland, it's really easy. It's very short.

It's not stopping the Americans from winning in Scotland, this is. No. Gentlemen last open. Hang on. Sorry, aren't you hitting off the tea anyway? You hit your first shot off the tea But then future shots you don't hit off a tea Do you know?

I thought you were allowed to put it pop a tea in the ground Oh my God How many times have I spoken about golf on this podcast? My filters are incredible by now I just think the shutters come down You've learned nothing Oh dear Do you want to know something ironic about pitches

Oh yeah Football pitches An uneven pitch creates a level playing field Oh very good Oh why Maybe the best footballers good at playing on level playing fields Very even pitches

Exactly It's a classic sort of FAA cup thing Isn't it? You get a lower division team With a terrible pitch And then the big shot Charlie's Have to go and play on it And they can't cope

Yeah, because you've got to do You know, you're allowing extremely fast Precise passing So the flatter and more even the pitch You've not watched England recently I mean Oh no, even I got that But yeah

As soon as you're on a less even pitch then it sort of equalises people because it's a little bit bumpy, it's a little bit harder to get those very fast passes in. And it is a hugely refined art, isn't it? The pitch and grass maintenance in football. I think there was a manager, Lauren Blanc, who was managing Paris Saint-Germain in 2013. All his players were getting injured, they were doing badly,

and they hired a groundsman called Jonathan Calderwood, and Laurent Blanc credited Calderwood with 16 of that club's points by the end of the season when they won the next season. And he was from Paris Stichmann? Yes. How many points did he attribute to the massive amount of money they got from Qatar? It didn't need it, actually. But no, it is a hugely advanced science. And it is actually one of the things where Britain is world leading

is the field of groundskeeping and turf consultancy. Jesus Christ. Why isn't Christaulner mentioning this in his speeches? It's changed Wimbledon, though, hasn't it? The tennis. The tennis as a tournament has been transformed, but the fact that the grass is not as fast as it once was. Absolutely, yeah. When we were all growing up, you'd have huge 6'4.6, 6 foot 7 serve volleers who'd smash the ball, come to the net,

volley it. No one volleys anymore because the ball's slowed down in the grass and people just hit the ball straight back at them. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like a better game, right? Would you say, objectively, it's kind of more interesting? I think it's gone too far the other way. If there's a serve and volley, I'd like to see them do well just because it's now a refreshing change. Yeah. And do you know that also they think it's like a great.

group think thing because everyone assumed that serving volley wouldn't work as well on this bouncy, slower grass but actually I think if you do choose a servant volley, I think you're still proportionally winning the same number of points as you would before so they should go back to it should they? And one does miss the servant volley. Women's game is almost

disappeared. Yeah, yeah. The Navratilovers and the various East European Czechs of the 80s and 90s all servant volleyed, they've all gone. They've been lost and the long grass. Very strong. You know they vacuum it, Wimbledon.

They vacuum the grass every day. They've got a turf consultant. They've got a, where they measure the chlorophyll index of the... Yeah, they do. This is all part of the British groundskeeping revolution. And British groundskeepers go all over the world. That's the thing is like, okay, if you win the euros, if you're Spain, fine. You've won the euros, great.

But no one can play without a pitch. Right. And if we, as Britain, are making the best pitches, who is the most important team in that tournament. Exactly. Exactly. And there should be points. We should probably start two goals ahead every match just because of our contribution, right? But the sad thing about Wimbledon grass is that when you're watching it, it is in the

process of dying. In fact, one of the Wimbledon groundskeepers said, you're walking the line between life and death when you maintain that grass. All right. Okay. You're the one who's elevated them to sort of global renowned status. Let me give you a test on football, Andy.

Yeah. Stanford Bridge, Goodison Park, St. James's Park, Emirates Stadium, Amfield, Old Trafford, Wembley. What is the surface they play football on in those places? Grass. It is not grass. Oh, come on. They play on something called Deso Grassmaster.

Wasn't he one of the pioneers of hip-hop? Grassmaster Deso, yeah. So it's 95% grass, but 5% you need. Neekly engineered soft polyethylene yarn. What? So it's mostly grass. Yeah, but I didn't say that to be fair. I said grass.

It's my fault. You wouldn't accept that on one of your quizzes, Paul. Well, they wouldn't accept that on the final chase where even the slightest error is punished. But they're technically hybrid pictures. Sorry, it's plastic. Because it's got tiny bits of plastic in and it just helps the grass stay alive and also makes it more bouncy. And it's always perfect. Leicester City Football Club.

They're very good, aren't they? Are they still very good? Not as good as they once were. No, not as good as they literally once were. But they got promoted. Did they get promoted last season? I think they did, didn't they? They're back in the Premier League.

Well, in sports turf, science fields. The most important fields. They're out in front. Are you Micah Richard? Who's that? Who's that? He's a... Pundit Supreme.

Yeah, former football and now Pundit. Oh, great. He's always on a day. You sound exactly like him. Really? Okay. Yeah. So Lesser City, they do a lot of the science, you know, behind it.

And they were doing a study in 2021 for the European Space Agency. Wow. About turning their grass clippings into, because if you pile up the clippings, it creates a lot of methane gas because of anaerobic digestion. Well, now you are sounding like Nicorichens. Yeah, you're like for like. I don't know what's happening.

But then that gas, you could turn it into a liquid and then refine that. to fuel. They also know they have 89 newts and they have to count them. What? Because they have to protect their nukes because there are all these rules about, you know, habitat and biodiversity and all this. And if you've got 89 nukes. 89?

I could have sworn it was a 199 newt game. Oh my God. That just happened. That's the joke of the podcast. Like we've done 500 episodes. That's it. That's the joke. Let's end.

Let's end there. Come on, you said it up with 89. You must have done. Have you heard of Hainey, Alemania? Wish I had. He invented the ironically named Fair Play Spray. So Fair Play Spray. Do you know what Fair Play Spray is, Andy?

Could you guess? You spray it in the other players' eyes. They can't see. He's called a goal. Is that it? No. Paul, do you know what Fair Play Spray is? No, I have known.

Think of what sprays you use in football at every game. Deodorant? The line that the referee puts down. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so the line, basically, when you take a free kick, the opposition have to be 10 yards away. And they usually make a little wall to stop you from getting it in the goal. I've seen that. To make them stand there, you'll put a little line of what looks like shaving foam on the ground.

And this was invented by a guy called Hainey, Alemania in 2000. And the reason it's ironically called Fair Play Spray is that FIFA refused to give him any money for it. They said, oh, basically, you know, someone else. also came up with an idea around the same time and we're just going to do it anyway and there's nothing you can do. And he went to Brazilian court who found in his favour in 2018 and ordered FIFA to pay £10,000 for every game they ignored their order. And since then, they probably owe him about 200 million quid. Wow. Are they paying? And well, the ruling was upheld in 2021. FIFA said that they are not bound by Brazilian law. And as time of recall,

I couldn't find out what had happened with it. Wow. But I know that he does sell them now, but he doesn't get paid every time they use them, I don't think. I trust FIFA as an honest and principal institution who will reimburse this guy. Yeah, yeah. He called it spoo-my. The stuff, FIFA calls it Fair Play Spray.

So spoomy. Can you think of a good nickname for a groundskeeper? Willie. Yeah. Five bad to the Simpsons. So this is the sort of Uber Willie. of you might have heard of him James because he's called George Toma.

No, I don't know. And it's American football. I'm into American football but not so much that I know the names of all the groundspeople. And are you really into it at all? You know, he did the pitch for every single Super Bowl

until the 57th one. Oh, really? He spent 82 years of his life being a groundskeeper. They probably did other things. No. I don't think he did. He started very, very young

and he retired last year age of 94. How interesting. Because they moved the Super Bowl to different places. every year, don't they? So, okay. That must be interesting. He's, yeah, yeah.

Was it good? Or was it a bit like, you know, when he talked to younger doctors and they say the old ones, sort of sticking with the old ways, don't work as well, they're losing it a bit. A bit of a twist of you was absolutely shit,

wouldn't this? It was incredibly. He mowed it to nothing. He only mowed half the pitch one year. He did roll hills everywhere. That's so funny. And he said, when you're retired. When I'm in heaven, I'll be looking at you a beautiful field,

or I'll be in hell looking at what kind of root system you have. What a great question. And his nickname is the sod father. Oh, the sod father. Do you know what's better about grass compared to trees if you're lovers? It's hard to have sex while lying on a tree. You lack ambition. there are an infinite number of correct answers I wish I hadn't gone here I'm looking for much more innocent

for lovers Is it you don't get up in your chinos As much One might a pair of 15 year olds Who are not acquainted with the birds and the bees Do around a tree Write their initials in it Tie yellow ribbon

Oh sorry You can't write your initials in a blade of grass But if you did It would grow with the blade. You know, there's always that thing, which is like, if you write your initials in a tree, will they grow with the tree? And your parents always explain... No, they won't, yeah, because the tree grows from the top, but grass grows from the bottom. So if you write your initials on a blade of grass and then come back 50 years later...

What's that blade of grass that we wrote our initials on? The amount of filth that groundskeeper's seen over 50... Over 57 years, you should write a book. All right, time's and fact. Number four, and that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that the hiring of the first ever African-American White House Secretary was announced on an episode of a quiz show. Unorthodox.

Was it an unguessable answer, if that was the question? They didn't get it right. Okay. They didn't get it right. This was in a show called What's My Line, which people who were old enough would remember. It was like a very posh old American game show. everyone would be in dinner jackets and the ladies would be in gowns with gloves and stuff and the host would bring in a guest and you would have to guess what their job was basically

or what they were famous for or something like that and if they were really famous you would have to wear a blindfold but if they weren't really famous you wouldn't have to wear a blindfold because you wouldn't get any visual clues and LBJ became president and he decided that they were you know times were a change in and they were going to get rid of segregation. And he thought, well, the best way to do that is to start in the White House. And so he hired this person called Gerundeen Whittington. And rather than doing a big announcement, he thought, if I announced it on national television, maybe that'll be, you know, make a bit of a splash. So Geraldine came onto What's My Line and they had to, these B-List celebrities

had to guess what her job was. And they couldn't because no one would ever guess that a black woman would be working in the White House. That's great. That's very clever. I don't think there's such a thing as a B-list celebrity on American television in the 1950 and 60s.

By the interview being on television, you're actually huge. That's true. I suppose, yeah. They were interestingly eminent, those guesses. I think the guess has changed a bit over the years, but so the panel included people like Bennett Surf, who won the case against the censorship of Ulysses

in 2003. The former governor of New Jersey, Dorothy Kig Allen, a newspaper columnist who wrote about links between organized crime and US intelligence. What were these people think when they see one at British, an equivalent of British game show? Yeah. Oh, that's Keith Lemon. He was the first person to report on the Challenger disaster in 1986. It seems such a contrast. It is stunning. It's stunning. Yeah, very eminent people.

The celebrity guests, they got huge, weren't they? Yeah. They had Walt Disney, Salvador Dali, Marlon Brando, Jimmy Stewart. Groucho Marx, Errol Flynn. So are these celebrity guesses or sort of guests? Celebrity, what's my line? When the guesses are blindfolded. Obviously, you would know immediately, Dali, as soon as you've seen him.

So they wore blindfolds for him. So the guests were blindfolds, and you're allowed to ask, do you work in the arts? And he says yes. And it's yes and no answers. Darlie would be a nightmare, sure. It was a complete nightmare. Because everything they asked him, he said, yes.

It's like, so I wrote down the questions. Are you associated with the arts? Yes. Would you have been seen on television? Yes. Are you a performer? Yes. Are you a leading man?

Yes. And then the host goes, because I've seen the video of it, the host goes, okay, I just have to say that even though he might be seen as a leading man in some parts of his life, it would be misleading for you to think he was a leading man in the normal definition of the phrase. And then they move on. It's so funny. So he wasn't in Gone with the Win, but he was the leading man of the surrealist art.

Yes, exactly. Because it's really funny. He says, they go, are you a leading man? He goes, yes. The host sort of looks at him. him and goes, what the fuck are you doing? And then the two of them have this little conflab where Dali obviously is like

explaining why he's such a leading man and the host is just going, yeah, yeah, but that's not what they know. That's unbelievable. It's really good. It shouldn't get Darlion. If you want it to go in a straightforward way, don't get Darlion on. Are you an orange?

Yes. Why have you melted our clock? Just one more thing on what's my line? Did you guys hear about the sister show? I've got a secret. No. I'm aware of its existence. It's a really fun.

It's a tweak on the format, basically. Someone comes on, they've got a secret. The panel has to guess what the secret is. So here are some of the secrets. These are so good. I discovered the planet Pluto. Oh, right. Again, it's very eminent.

Was that Clyde Tombo? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He was telling me the truth, then. You would have ruined this show. It would have been one minute long. Let's see if you can get this one then, Paul.

My wife's going to have a baby. That was... What? That was totally. Tony Curtis about his wife Janet Lee Oh, Jamie Lee Kurtz. Jamie Lee Curtis. Oh, so this was a way of celebrities

to announce things. Like, I've got a new movie coming out. Best one... I've got a book coming out, Paul, for instance. The best one ever on this show was, I am the last witness surviving of Abraham Lincoln's assassination. Oh, cool.

It was a guy called Joe Biden. It was a guy called Samuel Seymour. And this was... Seymour? He did see him. See more indeed. Very good. Yeah.

This was 1956, this ad. He saw it aged five, and he appeared on the show age 95. Although there was some skepticism, because he only told anyone about this when he was 94. So. It slipped his mind. Just never came up. That's so funny. Wow.

There we go. Sounds like a great show. The British show was quite tragic. What's my line? Yeah, because you talk about B-List celebrities. And of course, they weren't B-List, because... They were absolutely alists on account of being on television at a time when everybody was watching the same thing.

So these people were launched into fame and there was a guy called Gilbert Harding who became known as the rudest man in Britain because of how grumpy he was on the show. He just carried it as an albatross around his neck that he was hated by the British public. And there's a woman called Lady Isabel Barnett, another one of the regulars on the show.

And she committed suicide two days after a shoplifting scandal because she couldn't live with the disgrace. of Lady Isabel Barnett from What's My Line Really? It turned out to be shoplifting for years And it's the danger of imposing that much fame On people that weren't ready for it

It was a very real keynote way That TV worked in the 50s and 60s Yeah, yeah And I'm glad that we only get two and a half million viewers anymore I'm saying I've got appearing on a quiz show has changed, eh? Is it a quiz show or is it a game show? What's my line?

Oh my God, Andy. You are opening up a can of worms here. If you're sure, it's incredibly straightforward, isn't it? If you're asked quiz questions, it requires some knowledge. It's not a quiz question to be asked what's my line. It's like, what's the capital of... It's a hybrid, you have to be knowledgeable to solve the puzzles at your set. Yeah.

It's a wisdom show. Like, quiz show is what's the capital of Armenia? Paul? Yerevan. Oh, James got that one. Sorry. I forgot I wasn't cold cold for a second. What's six times nine?

Fifty four. I need that one. Sometimes you're going to get in first. You would be the worst quiz show. host ever. And now this is for the million pounds. And the answer is Eleanor of Aquitaine. Let's play. I think if you go onto online forums of people who like quizzes or people who like game shows and you ask this question, for instance, is Countdown a quiz show? That's the rest of your week gone. Oh really? I think Countdown is a game show and the reason I think Countdown is a game show is

you don't have to know what any of the words mean. You just have to know that they exist. I think it's a quiz show Because I think a game show has to have gunge If there's no gungge It's a quiz Yeah You know Like gladiators is technically a quiz

Does Gadiators have gungge? No No No So it's quiz But does that mean any TV show Yes I mean I will stress

I don't think there's anything better About either former No Both as entertaining as each other You must not know loads and loads and loads of formats for these shows, Paul. I've watched a lot of... You've watched so many.

So this is a slight game where I don't know if you'll just know the answers automatically. Like, I'm going to name a title of a quiz show. Okay. And if you can guess the format. Right. That sounds fun. This is a quiz? Well, no, because I've got some gung in the ceiling.

Repo games. Okay. I can't answer this because I know this one. Okay. I don't know what this means. I think it's the only quiz show I know the format or games show I know the format for because I read about it Oh okay right Paul

So the other two know about it because they read about it It's quite difficult because we wouldn't have we don't Do you have to come up with the first words of Emilio Estabez films in the 1980s Is that really? Yes, that's it No is that a couple of guys arrive and repossess your car Unless you can answer a set of trivia questions In which case you get to keep it

That's like two of minutes of my life combined into one both about circa 1998 but I think in this case they were always going to have their car repossessed because they hadn't had their payment

they haven't done their payments so they were going to get repossessed anyway and they're like well here's a chance to save your car right yeah it's you've fallen behind

on your payments but the reason I read about it is because didn't someone get shot yeah I think that's the story about that but weirdly you'd think

that the people doing the shooting and they were done for attempted murder were the people who were having their car repossessed but they were happy about it

It was the neighbour who was pissed off of the camera from the parked in the driver. Yeah, exactly. It was like, I get those cameras out of my face. That's funny. You're in the picture. Okay, I don't know this one. It's about weeing. You wee on a camera.

You're in the picture. Oh, you're in. You're in the picture. How many photographs can you wee on in a minute? Is it like, where's Wally? But you're in the picture. So it's where's you. That is good.

That's very good. Do they show you a famous painting and the main person has been replaced by you and you've got to guess the name of the original painting? Oh, that's a good one. I think you are almost closest, Paul. It's celebrities. They insert their faces into holes cut out, like those things you get at the seaside. Oh, yeah.

Oh, okay. And you have to guess the image you're in based on you can ask questions. Oh, I see. That's a good, I think that's a good game. Yeah, that's nice. You know, it lasted one week. Oh. There was an apology the next week saying, that was awful.

Sorry. Can I do one? Animal crackups. You know this one? Animal crackups. Okay, there is a thing called Animal Crackers. So it's a jigsaw show And you have to fit back together

Pulverized Biscuits Is that it? No, it's basically They show lots of videos Of animals doing funny things And then they ask you questions About those animals And then if you win

You get a stuffed animal But I only really bring it up Because it was hosted by a friend of the podcast Alan Thickey Who is Who's the Thickey Robin Thickey His father was like

Oh yeah yeah yeah Yeah, you also wrote the theme to you into different strokes. That's exactly right. And also he... One of my all-time favorite facts. He also sang the theme to addable crackups. Wow. You've been on just a minute, Paul, right?

Yeah. You might have been good in 1928 America where there was a non-stop talking competition. Only if I was good at just a minute. That's the only way that works. You're not good on it. It's just impossible. is it? Well, this one took four days. And after four days, there were still two people left and they just

split the prize between them. And they hadn't hesitated, deviated or the other thing? Actually, they did repeat, which is the other thing, because repetition was allowed. One person repeatedly recited Lady Macbeth's speech until they passed out. Wasn't Joel Brandbeth, was it? There was a person who said something so offensive than the person who ran the competition. called the police and they'd had them arrested. Wow. In 1928, that's probably pretty offensive.

Yeah. And the winners were given to the last two people. One of them was a swimming instructor who ran her own dance marathons. And the other one was a man who previously made his name winning flagpole sitting competitions. Amazing. That's so good. Have you ever seen the What's My Line with the intruder who comes on? I haven't seen it by read about it.

It's amazing. surreal. So it was filmed live until the 60s, which I think was quite late for shows to be filmed live, so anything could happen. It's 1962, and the panel's blindfolded, as we've explained, and the celebrity guest comes on, it's this Greek actress. And as they're asking her stuff, this man appears in a suit, a very well-dressed man, and he just walks on very calmly, and he says, I'm the second mystery guest, guess who I am? And then he starts talking about a dating service that he runs, and the host, what's he called? The John Charles Daly. Daily. It's great. Apparently, he had, obviously, had a code for it, because he just says, into the microphone, we have a small problem. Gil, will you get the relieving unit in, please?

They waked him off. And he said, that's all I wanted. And then he left the stage. That's the grand prize of this week. It was always going to be that. That's why we had to blindfold you. Wow. And then he said, Schedule 2, which makes you really want to know what Schedule 1 and 3 were. And then you see men hurry past the camera. But the interesting thing was this guy was identified as someone called Ronald Melstein,

who had a dating company he was trying to promote in this unusual way, apparently. And he disappeared. And then, years later, this was in the 62. And then in 1987, there's this really dramatic police chase. And one of the police cars rams into a tree that's been taken to hospital. Another police cut slips on an oil slick. They catch up with the guy there chasing who's running a prostitution ring. And it is Ronald Melstein.

Oh, at least they found out what his line was. May it take in 25 years. The greatest contestant we ever had. Okay, that's it. That is everyone's facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you want to get in touch with anyone here today, you can get in touch with Andy on...

I'm Andrew Hunter M on Twitter. At James. My Twitter is at James Harkin. Paul, is that anywhere people can get in touch with you? Yes, on Amazon, on an advert for the book, One Sinner Lifetime. Amazon.com.com. And you'll reply to every individual person

who gets in touch on Amazon by buying your book. Absolutely. Every single one. Great. Or you can get in touch with all of us as a group by going to Instagram at No Such Things a Fish or on Twitter at No Such Thing or email podcast at QI.com. And of course, you can also go to our website, no such thing as a fish.com and get tickets for our tour. We are so excited. We are kicking off within the next few weeks, in fact. So get there.

Get your tickets now. And fading that, we'll be here again next week. you then, goodbye.