No Such Thing As A Fish - No Such Thing As Mambo No. 2

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

Dan, James, Anna and Andy discuss Shameful Tunes, Moving Dunes and Historic Cartoons Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes.

Welcome to another working from home episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from four undisclosed locations in the UK. My name is Dan Shriver. I'm sitting here with Andrew Hunter Murray, James Harkin, and Anna Tijinsky, and once again, we have gathered round the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days, and in no particular order, here we go. Starting this week with My Fact, my fact is sand dunes are brilliant at social distancing. Okay, topical. Very topical. So they're safe. Sand dunes are inanimate objects. Okay, so I would suggest that if they're two metres apart, they will always remain two meters apart. Is that, as in, they're not moving, are they?

Sand dunes do move. They constantly are traveling through the desert. They are a body that falls over on itself and travels. So, yeah, sand dunes are constantly shifting. And that's why when deserts encroach on places, you've got these giant waves of sand dunes that head towards you. It's like an army. But scientists in Cambridge University have sort of simulated,

they've built an experiment whereby they've been able to study the movement of sand dunes. And they've discovered that basically they do communicate with each other in inverted commas, communicate with each other by sending signals to not encroach on their patch so they don't collide. We still fully don't understand why it is. I mean, it's pretty extraordinary. The latest theory that they've come up with is it's much like if you're in a boat and there's the wake of the boat pushing the water back behind you, it's pushing the sand dune behind it to keep it at a regular distance. Although we should say, because otherwise, I think people will be confused.

When you say collide and it's a mystery of why they don't crash into each other, obviously the main reason they don't crash into each other is because they're moved by winds. and air currents. And so you don't get one moving in one direction and another moving in the opposite direction and then galloping towards each other very often. So when we say crashing into each other, it's almost always one sneaking up on the other

or how calm one of them doesn't go a bit faster than the other. And it does seem to be, doesn't it, that the one in front effectively slows down the one behind? Exactly. And it's worth saying that there are different speeds, though, to sand dunes. So a big sand dune is much slower than a smaller of sand dune. And when I say much slower, I do realize we're talking by centimetres per year. But they do travel at different speeds.

And even the smaller ones will respect distance gradually as some kind of communication. Again, it's all theories. So is what you're saying, like a little guy will go really, really fast until it gets a certain distance away from the big guy? And then it'll go, okay, now I'm going to respect the distance. And I'm just going to slow down to your pace. Exactly. And then they move at the same pace.

Okay. It's not going to crop up as a plot line in the faster. the furious films any time soon, basically. The slow and the very, very placid. They do kind of go to sleep, though, each night and wake up each morning. Again, this is a metaphor. But because of there's a big, big temperature change, obviously they're mostly in beachy and deserty environments, and especially in the deserty environments, it's way warmer

in the day than at night. And that big temperature difference stirs the sand quite a lot. lot and at noon the sand dune kind of wakes up and the little winds are generated by the temperature difference and the increasing temperature and they move the surface around and that can be another thing that moves the dunes a few meters a year so is it possible to tell the time if you're in the desert by looking at a sand dune or not I mean I think you'd look at the color of the sky possibly if it's completely dark I think we know what time it is that's the most amazing nomad skill you could have. That'd be really good. I was reading the other day that if you're on a mountain and you

want to know how high it is, you can tell it by getting a bottle of Coca-Cola and putting some Mentos in it. You know that trick that they often do in America where you kind of put your Mento mint in there and then suddenly it sloshes up. If you're on a mountain and you have those two things, you can put the Mento inside the Coke and the amount that it slushes up can tell you the height of the mountain. Do you know why? It's to do with the air pressure, I think. It's amazing that Edmund Hillary ever made it to the top of Everest without his Coke and his Mentos. Do you need to have quite a big bottle, presumably,

because is it the more it goes up the higher you are? Or is it an inverse relationship? Well, here's the problem, I know. I didn't really read properly. So if we were going to go on a hiking expedition next week, I'm going to have to do a bit more research. I guess the air, is it air pressure? It's air pressure, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't your Coke freeze at a sodden height, though? Would it freeze if you're on top of Mount Everest, which is the highest mountain? Otherwise, how are they drinking? Maybe they're taking up one of those thermoses that you carried soup in on a school trip when you were young. Exactly.

I can't believe you had soup in a thermos on your school trips whenever anyone else had sandwiches. Andy, is actually an incredibly traumatizing childhood memory I don't want to talk about. It was the worst thing ever. It's incredibly embarrassing. It always spilled everywhere on the coach. No one would want to sit next to me. God, I hate my mother. What was she thinking?

This experiment, we didn't quite go into it then, I think, right? So basically what they had was like a big perspex circular tank with two walls. So the sand dunes could go around the circumference of the circle, right? And they could kind of chase each other. But the guy who did it was called Carol Batchick. And he works at Cambridge University. And the reason that he did this experiment is he was just looking at one sand dune going around this thing.

And he's thinking, this is boring. It's taking ages to get any kind of, any kind of data. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to double my capacity and put two sand dunes in. And then I could get twice as much data. I'm just going to do that. And then when he did that, it started a new experiment that he hadn't intended to do. But what's really interesting is it's pretty much. impossible to actually make a sand dune in the lab, right? For years and years, they said it was impossible.

This experiment gives kind of an idea of what a sand dune might do, but of course, the difference between that and an actual massive, you know, meters and meters high sand dune could be quite different. And so in Mongolia in 2007, they got a bulldozer and flattened a whole lot of the desert, and they set up an experiment to see a sand dune being made from scrum. scratch. Wow. But surely, even the longest PhDs don't quite last long enough to genuinely watch a sand dune form from nothing and then moved, do they? Or did they just sit in the desert for decades? They just sat there for decades, yeah. They passed it on to their children, actually. Wow. It's like a sourdough starter.

Well, not unfortunately. Just as it happens, what they learned was exactly what everyone thought would happen according to the experiments they did in the lab. So they did. all these experiments and it turned out that what happened was exactly what everyone felt was going to happen, which... That's annoying. It's annoying in a way, but in another way, at least they've proven their theories are correct. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Did you know the second highest sand dune in Europe is in Wales? Is it? It's a place which is nicknamed the South Wales Sahara. It's 800 acres of sand. And the dunes get up to 200 feet tall, which is actually... That's massive. Yeah, yeah. It's so sandy.

that Lawrence of Arabia was partly filmed there. Really? It's a stand-in for Arabia, yeah. The tallest one's in France, isn't it? I think I've been to it. Yeah. Is it? Have you?

The tallest one in Europe? Have you slid down it? Actually, I've been to the tallest one in the world as well. Wow. Where's that? That's in Peru, I think. And I've sandboarded on it as well. Cool.

How do you go about that? You pay money and they take you on a June buggy and they do lots of tricks over the sand dunes. and then they take you to the top of one of the biggest ones, and they put you on what is less like a snowboard and more like a tea tray, and they tell you just to go to the bottom and to make sure that you took everything.

Because I didn't stand up on it, I kind of like bodyboarded down it, and they tell you to hide all your limbs, otherwise they'll get chopped off and stuff. It's like surfing. What environment are you going through? That's what they said. They said, like, if you don't tuck your arms in,

then you'll probably lose them. Wow. Anna, you'll remember tea trays because your mum probably gave you one to serve up your afternoon tea on on these cool trips. Actually, sand duneing, what are you calling it?

Sandboarding. Sandboarding can be quite dangerous. Well, that's what they said. As... What kind of injuries? You lose your arms and legs, I told you. You can obviously, it might find that when you get to the bottom of the sand dune

then all your limbs have dropped off. But you can find this is incredibly rare. They didn't know it could happen until 2013, but you can just fall into one. So if you read this extraordinary story? No, obviously not. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gone sandbbing. This happened in 2013.

It's in a place called Mount Baldi, which is on the side of Lake Michigan in Indiana, and it's a huge sand dune. It's 126 feet tall, and it swallowed a boy. I'm just going to say right now, just so everyone's not traumatized, the boy ended up okay. But he was running up to the top of the sand dune with his mate and his dad

to then run down it or do James' trick. And suddenly he disappeared. And his dad looked around and he'd gone. And his friend said he just fell into the sand and got swallowed. I mean, you would. Even if you're not done, you would immediately think Mongolian deathworm, wouldn't you? So that was the conclusion they all jumped to.

They spent weeks looking into that to no avail. This is amazing. Bizarrely, by chance, there was a geologist who was walking by, and she saw dozens of people on the side of this sand dune just digging away in the sand saying, this just swallowed a small boy. We need to get him out. And one of the people, they heard the boys say from deep within the June,

help me, I'm scared. And this geologist was like, that is rubbish. That's totally impossible. And she just walked on, went home. And then she... Even though she heard the child. She didn't... No, no, she didn't hear the child.

She just got told by the people digging. She thought, no, that kid's just playing hide and seek. Anyway, it turned out they saw these tiny little holes in the sand that kind of went through, and it seemed that they were leading towards some massive cavity underneath it, which he just dropped into and then got immediately covered up. And they excavated and excavated. After three and a half hours,

they managed to find him hidden in a cavity in the sand dune 12 feet underground. And he was unconscious and, like, really cold. and he spent a couple of weeks in hospital and amazingly recovered. But they had no idea why Sand Dunes shouldn't swallow anyone up. And this geologist hated herself so much for not believing it had happened at the time. She's then led this amazing study,

she's called Erin Aguiland. And she's found out that it's from hollowed out trees. So the sand dunes galloped along as they do, and it's galloped over these old trees that have rotted then from the inside and been encrusted with fungus. So it's just got these tubes. So it's got these weird channels leading down through it. But you can't see the openings in the surface.

So it looks like nothing. Wow. That's really cool. Don't sound like that. There's another thing that they might swallow, apart from six-year-old boys. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Which is there was a city built in Tunisia for Star Wars. And not the original Star Wars films. I'm talking episode one, the Phantom Menace. The true original. But in 2013, there were lots of news reports. And I haven't, annoyingly, I haven't found what happened after these reports. But it was reported that that location city built for the Phantom Menace, which was called Moss Esper in the movie,

was about to be buried by a giant crescent-shaped sand dune. And this was really good news, actually. Not only because it removed evidence of the Phantom Menace from the face of the earth. Also, because it was hard for scientists to measure sand dunes. sand dune movement because it's very hard to find a fixed measurement point because it's a nightmare when you're in the desert you think oh well has this moved 50 meters or has it not moved at all we don't know because there's nothing else here apart from more sand but this was obviously very useful because it was fixed in the ground and they could kind of

look at where it is and compare it to the movie yeah and say okay on this date it was in front of this part of star was yeah but they would have to watch the phantom menace though to do that That's true, and no scientist has been found. Yeah, that's a PhD you really don't want to do. I'd rather stand in the Mongolian desert for 20 years. One famous thing about sand dunes is that they make this singing noise. And Marco Polo wrote about it in the 13th century. He said that he heard eerie sounds coming from the sand dunes around him,

and the logical conclusion was that he must be in the presence of evil spirits. Wow. Cool. But it has to be really specific sounds. doesn't it? You can't get on any old sand dune. There aren't actually many in the world that do it, but it's got to be a very fine type of sand. And I think it's the same sort of mechanism

that you get on some beaches where the sand really squeaks. And I'd never really had this before, and because in Britain we have beaches that I love, but that are objectively quite crappy. So I'd never seen it before until I went to visit Bruni Island off the coast of Tasmania at Christmas.

And there, every time you put your foot down, it sort of shrieks at you. Like it's hurt. You feel kind of bad for it. Yeah, it is. It is weird creaky floorboard sounds, isn't it, as you're walking along. So you can't sneak up on someone on a beach. It's actually a very good mechanism to tour. That's why you moved here, isn't it, Dan?

Because you just kept getting caught in Australia. We've been giving Soundream's very mixed messages in this country lately because we've been trying to get them to stop moving for years and building fences around them and people sometimes cover them in oil, which is very unpleasant, which sort of like weighs them down. and we plant lots of vegetation on them. So if you go to the coast, you'll see vegetation planted. And then suddenly, conservationists have turned around and said,

oh, hold on, sand dunes are supposed to move. This is like kind of nailing a horse to the floor. And so now we're trying to... And they don't do that because horses are supposed to move. And so now we're trying to get sand dunes moving again. And the National Lottery is given four million pounds to get sand dunes moving again. Wow.

They've set up a new app, haven't they? The couch to five metres. Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that according to a recent publication, people from the north of England are more than twice as likely to be naturally funny than people from the south of England. Sounds like a very scientific publication. Who conducted this?

Oh, I didn't write that down. I've already written it down. Was it nature or I can't remember. It was the Bino. It was the comic The Bino. But who knows comedy better than the people who write the Bino? That's what I want to know. Absolutely.

So what were the details of the study? They were scant. It was the analysis of famous British comedians carried out by statistician Dr. Jeff Ellis. And he looked at all the different comedians and what their particular attributes are. And then he surveyed people to say, how funny do you think these people are? And I think thanks to the fact that Peter Kay comes from the north of England, the people like Peter Kay, we came at the top. And you guys are all not as funny.

Yeah. Didn't he also say that Gemini's are more naturally funny than Leo's? I didn't read that bit because I'm not a Gemini. I only cherry picks the bits that specifically said good things about me. Ah, okay. I think the study did also say that. Can I just say, as a Leo from the south of England, I'm just honored to be here. People who are born in a city are supposed to be funnier, and you were born in London?

I was. Is that, again, is that according to apparently professional statistician Jeff Ellis, who must be questioning where his career's gone right now? The Beano is pretty dry these days if they're having to resolve the statistical analysis of famous comedians. We should quickly say there'll be a lot of international listeners who might not know what the Beano is. This is the longest running comic in the UK And it is famous for having created Dennis the Menace, The British one, not the American one.

And it has a sort of sister publication called Dandy That Has Desperate Dan. And so a lot of iconic British characters came out of this. Desperate Dan was named after you walking along a beach, wasn't it? Depraved Dan was the character's original name. Deported Dan after I was caught. We mentioned Desper Dan in the very olden days,

so it feels right that we're correcting the balance now. I think he had to give up eating cow pie, didn't he? Oh, yeah. Because of mad cowl disease. We all have a friend who used to work on the beano until quite recently. Really? Matthew Heighton, a comedian, excellent comedian, I should say. Also from the north of England, very funny guy.

He used to work for the beano. Yeah, that's right. he's still part of the Beano WhatsApp group where everyone sends each other messages about the Beano and I asked him if they had any facts and so do you want to hear some facts from the Bino WhatsApp group? So the Bino offices in London are on Fleet Street

and it is where people believe that Sweeney Todd was supposedly had his barbershop and so they get loads of tours of people who want to see the kind of dodgy, murdery parts of London always go to the Bino offices and have a look around. They don't,

go into the offices. They go into like the alleys next to the office. That's amazing. That's where Sweeney Todd supposedly killed his. They're one of the biggest pranksters of all time, Sweeney Todd. Well, he didn't have cow pies, but he did have people pies, didn't he, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, probably the inspiration for Desperate Dan.

Who knows? I found out in my Bina research, niche fact that definitely international listeners won't care about, which is the breed of dog that Nasha is. Oh, okay. Because if you look at Nasha, he's just sort of like a big, frizzy lump of black with some legs sticking out. And he's actually a very rare breed. He's an Abyssinian wire head of tripe pound. And he's a very rare breed of dog from the mountains of Eastern Africa, according to the Beano website. They're world famous for their thick black coats,

which are as strong and tangled as barbed wire, which is weird because barbed wire, actually, when it's erected, is not tangled at all. But they're also famous for their strong... I suppose bits of it are. You're right, the barbed bits are, aren't they? Sorry, Anna, are you just being silly? This isn't a real kind of dog, is it? Yeah, of course it is. They're also famous for their strong teeth that can chew through concrete and smash bricks.

Did you know that Nasha can speak real people words, but only on Halloween? Again, well, this breed of dog is particularly famous for that. They are extremely rare now. The American Dennis and Menace, we've mentioned before, the beautiful coincidence that they both appeared at the same time, these two characters with the same name,

and both wear red and black costume. And American Dennis the Menace, I was looking into how he came about, his origin story, and he was actually inspired by, and this is the story that's told, in 1950 when the artist Ketchum was drawing, his wife came in to interrupt him

to say that their own four-year-old son, Dennis, had just demolished their bedroom by putting fecal matter that he'd found in his underpants all over the room and declared him a menace. And so he thought, ooh, that sounds like a good character name. So he went, helped to clean up the shit off the walls, and then created Dennis the Menace.

Because there was a song a few years before both of these characters came along that was quite popular called Dennis the Menace from Venice. And most people think that the reason that they came at the same time is because they were both inspired by this song, which had become quite popular. But the Poo on the Wall story is quite persuasive. So it might be that. The Poo on the Wall story also features in the Music Hall. song, doesn't it? So I think it might have taken the same trajectory. Yeah, I think the creators of the

British version of Dennis said that he was inspired by that musical song. And actually, I looked up the lyrics of this song, although I can't find the melody, and I really want it. Dennis the Menace from Venice is a gay gondolier with gold rings in his ears, and he's a massive player. So the whole song is about how he's this gondolier who seduces other men's wives down the canals of Venice. At nine in the evening, he dines with a blonde at 10, he has got a brunette. At midnight, you'll find him with some ginger gal, and he teaches them all how to pet. Wow, it sounds a bit like Mambo number five, doesn't it? Another song which originally ended up with the protagonist smearing his poo all over the walls. Mambo number two, they had to rename it, didn't they?

There was, it's obviously a lot of the humour in the be-note is really, And there was a plan in 2017 to do a Bino takeover at the Victoria and Alpert Museum in London. And what they wanted to do was amend the... They've got a cast of Michelangelo's David there, and they wanted to tweak it so that it would fart as people passed by. And I can't find any evidence that it happened, because there was fury in the museum that there was going to be... It was actually genuinely irritating to people.

And there was a memo doing the rounds about the plans. and somebody replied, an insider from the museum, said, frankly, some of the things in the memo are disgusting. While it's important to encourage children to visit, farting statues are not the way to do it. Wow. Come on. So Bino launched in 1938,

and there's not many copies left of the original issue. But by weird coincidence, I saw one the other day. A friend of mine, yeah, called Ollie Driscoll. He's a cameraman for, he works on B. movies like the latest Jurassic Park movies and touching the void and the Fast and Furious movies. Back in 1999, he bought the Bino first issue for £6,000. Wow. And as far as he knows, it's the only issue that has the toy that it came with, the free toy, which was a mask.

Oh, my God. You know the guy who has that? Yeah, he has it. He showed it to me. Yeah, and he has it in mint condition. And he's up for selling it. So if anyone wants to buy a very expensive comic book magazine, he's a very expensive comic book magazine, he's got it for sale.

Dan, I'm really interesting because I read a bit about that thing and it said that it came, it said the toy that it came with, it called it a Whoopi mask. Yeah, and I obviously only know the Whoopi cushion, but presumably this is not a mask

where someone has to sit on your face and it makes some noise. Yeah, I don't know. I think maybe Whoopi, is it possible Whoop had a different meaning to it back in? I think it didn't fart. I've seen a picture and I can't see where they would have got

the farting mechanism into it. It's very flat. Glasses, yeah. Do you know what the oldest comic strip in the world is about? No. This is what's established recently is the oldest of Western comic book. And by comic book, it's like something that's mass produced and it has speech bubbles and released every week or every couple of weeks. It's called Looking Glass and it ran for three editions.

And it was the adventures of a coat being worn by different people. Is it about that? There's a Gogol story about the coats, isn't there? The overcoat. All the great thing. Yeah, the overcoat. It was not based on a Gogol story. It was pre that.

It was 1825. Wow. Maybe Gogol based his story on the comic. On the history of a coat. I just can't imagine two people had the same idea about doing a story about an overcoat. You're right. Well, we don't know this one was an overcoat.

It might have been an undercoat. It was just a coat. What is an undercoat? I don't know. It's just something I made up that would be the opposite of an overcoat. Anyway, it had characters like Billy the Bulley and ranting Dan. And this was, you know, 200 years ago. Dan, you're getting an absolute pasting in it.

Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is Anna. My fact this week is that in 1943, German troops who were rescuing Mussolini had to seize control of a tourist finicular railway so they could ride a cable car to the top of the hill and pick him up. So cool. What an awkward journey in that finicular railway cable car. It must have been with the two elderly tourists and the 20-natchel. Goons. He refused to budge and get out of it. No, we paid for our ride and we will damn well take it.

So what was he doing at the top of the hill? It's a good question. He was just hanging out there. So I didn't know this had happened. But when Mussolini was deposed by his own people because they finally realized that he was shit in every way in 1943, he was arrested by his own council, and they sort of took him prisoner

and they moved him around to a lot of different places. And then eventually they plopped him. at the top of the Grand Sassau de Talia, which has a lot of very high mountains in the Apennines. And it's only reachable by cable car. And Hitler, he's a fan of Mussolini, heard about this, sussed out where he was, and ordered this rescue operation. And so in order to rescue, the plan was send some troops there

and pick him up. And so, yeah, they had to seize this cable car. Just because they go quite slowly cable cars at the best of times. And I reckon in 1943 very slowly. Imagine the rush and the frenzy. Yeah, so it's a funicular cable car, which is where they have the two counterbalances, so they'll have two cable cars, right?

They're one on one side and one on the other. But it was a crazy operation, this Mussolini Rescue. It was part cable car based and mostly glider-based, and so the plan was for these ten tiny little glider planes to land on the top of this mountain, which they'd sort of done some reconnaissance on and thought they'd seen a big meadow they could land on, which turned out to be a massive rocky field.

So they all crash landed, some of them were quite badly injured, ran in to pick up Mussolini. And one of the SS commandos apparently vomited inside his glider, which made it very unpleasant to chavalin for the rest of them. They were so flimsy, these tiny little gliders, and the pilots were so nervous about it because of that, that one of the pilots in one, he couldn't see out the window because it was really blurry.

So he got a knife out, and he just jammed a hole in the fuselage, so he could look out and then pushed the bit of the futilege out so he could look out of the plane. Wow. And then they picked him up. They sort of gave him up quite sort of, okay, take him, that's fine. Like no bullets were fired. It was a, and Mussolini requested that as well.

He said, please, no one shoots. And yeah, it was quite a peaceful operation. And they didn't get him out by the finicular, did they? No, there was an idea to get him out by a funicular, so they were planning to land a plane at the bottom of the finicular that he could just board, but the plane crash landed and lost a wheel on landing. So instead they got him out by a small light aircraft from the top of the mountain, didn't they? Got it. Okay.

Which also sounds crazy. Your wife's a pilot, so maybe she could say how unstable this is, but they were terrified about leaving because it was a really light aircraft, and it was overcrowded to the extent that Mussolini, who was six foot four, massive guy sat in the passenger seat. And then the guy who was in charge of the operation, Captain Scorzni, was wedged in the luggage compartment behind and... underneath the seat.

And it was way too heavy. So it like careered down this hill, bumped down this hill, which wasn't the kind of surface they wanted, and then did a nose dive off the edge of a precipice. And they only survived because the pilot realized that he'd have to leave it in freefall for a while. So in order to get up the requisite speed,

you could then pull the plane up and start flying it away. Mussolini was a bad dude. I think we can all agree. He was also a British spy for some time. time. Yeah. He was hired by the British in 1917 and he was given a wage by MI5 to help keep Italy fighting in the war because in the festival war they were on the same side of the British. And that was about £6,000 a week. So, you know, he owes a lot of his early success to MI5. That's a huge amount of money. Yeah, is it modern day that much or was that much at the time? Modern day that much.

It wasn't, yeah, it was £100 a weekly wage at the time, which is about £6,000 now. Okay. They have to buy a secondhand car. or, well, you know what £6,000 is, you don't need it. Well, you can buy the first edition of the beiner for that back in 1999. Terrible news. Italy has dropped out of the war, but I did secure this. Check out my whoopie mask, guys.

I think we've briefly mentioned before that his son, Romano, was a jazz musician. Yes. And a famous jazz musician, more or less in his own right, I just wanted to add on, I found a memorial article about him in the Atlantic and the headline was, he made the refrains run on time. Ah, nice. Funiculars. Yeah.

Oh, great. I made a list of all the funiculars I've been on as part of my research. How many? And I've been on, only six is not enough. But one of them was closed when I visited it, so it would have been seven. So can you just quickly re-explain for maybe some of the audience listening to this show who might not understand what a finicular is, what it is? Sorry to do that.

We obviously all know. So it's a little railway, which is, it's normally they're designed to go up and down very, very steep hills. So if you've got, you know, it's a very steep mountainside, it's a great way of getting up and down there with not too much, you know, without going round around the houses. So it's a direct line. And usually one car is ascending while the other is descending.

So there are two. And sometimes there's just one line and the cars are going towards each other and they're about to hit each other and then just at the very middle of the line, the line branches off into two and they go around each other and then use the same line again. That's a very efficient way of doing it.

And the reason they're really useful is because you're using the weight of one of your trains to pull the other one up. So as one is descending, it's pulling the other one up. So you need a lot less energy. That's the crucial thing about them is the counterbalancing. And they still use a little motor,

so they still need to be able to pull themselves up the hill, but it's so much counterbalance. Yeah, so you're using basically the potential, energy of one to pull up the other one. But like Anna says, you do need some... It's not a completely perfect system of... It's not perpetual motion, so you need... As close as we've got, yeah. You need a little leg up. Apparently, sometimes you can make the move just by having enough people in the cabin. If you crush enough slightly overweight people in, it can just weigh its way down. So that's an insulting moment when you step into a

funicular and finally they're like, thank God we've got them. Okay. It's like I was once in television studios in London and there was a lot of people in the lift and I needed to get in the lift as well and I got in and as soon as I walked in it started beeping and said, sorry, too much weight in this lift so I had to walk out and get the stairs

while everyone else got the lift. Yeah, that's awkward. That's very unfair, but it's just because you were the last one in. It's only really insulting if you get in and the guy who's running a lifter is all right, well, you six people are going to have to leave over. I was once on an aeroplane. I don't know if I've said this before,

but I got an airplane in, I think it was in Hawaii or somewhere. It was somewhere where it's a small airplane, and they made me move to counterbalance the weight of the plane. And they said, excuse me, sir, can you sit over the wings? I'm not a particularly overweight man. You know, it's like... You're not at all. Andy, I want to know the last time you went into a lift

that there was a man running it. All the lifts. I only go into a lift which has... an operative. Yeah, it would have been longer ago than the last time I was in a funicular, which was in Hastings last year. You know when you said you've been in six funiculars, does that include going up and going down as separate ones?

Oh, okay. If we're doing that, I've been in 12 funiculars. But they are, I mean, I find them kind of weirdly lovely. Again, I'm a bit of a funicular obsessive, not that much of one, because I've only been in 12-slash-6. But. Finicular and moss. They're your two loves, aren't they, Andy? Pretty sad, isn't it?

If you imagine a finicular overgrown with moss, and that would be my dream. But they are very cool. And I find them quite weird, because obviously they're only usual in very hilly or mountainous places. And so you get loads of them in seaside resorts. Like Scarborough has five? Really? Wow. Yeah.

Or it has had five at various different points. Hastings has two. Do you guys know the song about finiculars? No. A really famous one. Finiculi, Filicular, from the 1880s. Do you know it? No.

You would know it. If you heard it, you would know it for sure. It's like a really famous Italian song. Like goes, da da da da da da da da da da da da da. Oh, yeah, yeah. Finiculi, finicular, finicular. Finiculis, finicular. So it's really, really famous in the 1880s.

And Richard Strauss was on holiday in Italy, and he heard this song, and he thought, because it's such an absolute banger of a tune, isn't it? He thought that this must be like a really old, like classical Italian song. And so he put it in one of his compositions. And then the guy who actually wrote it, who was living in Italy, heard this.

And he was like, that's my song. What's going on? And so he sued. Richard Strauss for the money for his song and he won as well. So as far as I can see, it's like one of the oldest examples of someone suing for someone stealing their songs. Wow. Isn't that cool?

That's amazing. Do you know Ireland has one cable car? Just a one. Just one. It takes people from Cork to Dersy Island, which is just off the coast of Cork. And it's the only way of getting to the island. Island and there was outcry a few years ago when it was announced that no longer was the cable car allowed to be used to transport cows.

This is actually a serious problem because a lot of the Dirty Island industry, which admittedly is quite small, I think it only now has two permanent residents. A lot of the industry is quite cow-based, quite cattle-based, and the cable car is tiny. It can fit one cow. So when they were moving cows over, the farmers... You did when they were moving the cows across, the farmers would have to put them one at a time in this one cable car. There are great pictures of them disembarking.

And then would they have to like sometimes put the cow across but then send some corn back and then put a chicken back in and send that back? Is that one? There were so many awkward trial ones where the chicken was dead, the cow was dead and they could only plant corn. That's so amazing. Surely you could squeeze it. You could go and lie on top of the cow.

Man, it's pretty small. You could maybe squeeze in an Italian fascist, but that's dirty. I've got a new favourite cable car as a result of researching this fact. I want to know what your old favorite cable car was, but we'll come on to that. Well, my old favorite one was the one I go in Hong Kong, which took you across mountain ranges to go to Ocean Park, which we used to get most of my childhood, astonishing cable car. But that's been superseded by a mountain cable car in South Germany.

which takes you to the top of a mountain called the wank. I've been there. You've been to the wank? I mean, of course. All right, guys. So you've been on the wank barn? I have watched ski jumping at the wank mountain, and I've watched Andreas Vank, the ski jumper,

jumping at the wank mountain. I think it's right. It's next to Garmish Partenkirchen, I think. Yes, that's correct. So, yeah, so to get to the top of it, if you want to take the quick way, you get the wank barn and the wank barn leads you to the top

and there's a wank house at the top as well Can I just say then? The wank barn sounds like the disgusting sequel to the song Love Shack It's a little known place where you can get together with yourself Yeah so yeah And also if you go regularly

You can get a wank pass Which gets you a sort of year-round permit To get the cable car Oh, wow. It's a pretty rough place to clean, isn't it? That is poor cleaning stuff. Coincidentally, I'm banned from all six of the funiculars I've been on. But not the other six.

Oh, God. Okay, it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is Andy. My fact is that in medieval Germany, bad musicians were tied to an instrument called the flute of shame. That doesn't sound like much of a... I mean, was it a massive flute? It was, it was a flute. I think everyone knew it was the flute of shame.

Okay. As always, that's where the shame comes from. So it's called the Shandflot. Or Shandflutter. And so this is a... It was a metal device with a collar at the neck, so it was clamped onto you. And your fingers would supposedly be clamped to the keys.

Not really a flute, more of a clarinet. I've written Flarinet in my notes, which I like, but that's just a mistake. So there are a couple of these things only in existence. One of them is in the medieval crime museum in Rothenburg, and another is in the Amsterdam Torch Museum. And so I couldn't quite work out if these things were real, or if they were Victorian reproductions.

But I did find a paper in the journal Torture, which is all about other shaming instruments. And there were definitely things like the neck violin, which could be attached to you. And you might be put in a pillory, you know, you might be tied up somewhere with this wooden violin, again, attached to your neck by a kind of iron band.

I saw a picture of that. To me, it didn't look like a violin at all. I think they just called it that because it goes on your neck, didn't they? Exactly. And your hands get locked in. There are some which definitely look like violins. Oh, okay.

Because a flute one does look like a flute. That's why it confused me. Or clarinet, you know. Or clarinet. Or clarinet. You know, it's one of those. Do you have to play it while you're in it? I mean, accounts vary.

Some people say you'd be sort of put on and walked around a bit and you'd have to, you know, go, yeah, I am a crap musician. Oh, it is the perfect instrument for feeling sorry for yourself as well, the violin. That's quite a nice. I ask Greg, Greg, there about this whether he thought this was a real thing or not. And he asked Dr. Eleanor Janega, who is at Going Medieval on Twitter, who's a medieval historian.

And she isn't sure. She thinks that it might be one of those inventions that were, as she puts it, retrofitted, as in it's like a Victorian, more of a Victorian idea. On the German Wikipedia, it says, in recent times, the Shand Flood is often presented as a punishment for bad musicians, but like the neck violin, which also resembles. a musical instrument, it served to punish various minor violations of the legal system. So not for musicians, but just a more general kind of punishment like the stocks kind of thing. So I guess we just don't really know, do we?

It's kind of... Yeah. So the violin definitely seems to be a thing. But not necessarily for musicians, perhaps. No, no, no. It seems to make more sense that they'd be used to punish an actual crime. But they did use to make punishments fitting with the crime. So maybe if you'd stolen a violin or beaten up a violinist.

It's waiting for a long time if you make a massive metal flute for someone to steal a flute, isn't it? It's like, surely it'll happen eventually. What did they steal? Are they stole some bread? Okay, have we got a massive bit of metal? Still waiting on the flute. Not only did they have the neck violin,

but I saw as well that in one of these museums, the Crime Museum in Rotterdam, that they got a double-neck violin. And the idea of the double-neck violin was, according to the little caption that goes with the item, is that it was for arguing couples, and they would have to walk around with them on, sometimes with bells attached, ringing,

and the idea was that they would walk in shame until they resolved their argument. So it was just a quick way of making them actually talk to each other and shaming themselves into an understanding of their points. And why is there a violin hanging between them? It just seems like the totally irrelevant part of that set up. Well, it's romantic. Oh, so when they make up,

they can do a little serenade. Yeah, exactly. It's like when someone comes to your table while you're having dinner and plays a song for you. Fair enough. So, just on flutes, is it flutist or flautist?

Flortist. Okay, one vote for flautist. It seems to be that in America it's flutist, although one of the greatest ever players, Julius Baker, he has said it should be flutician. Like a beautician. Sounds like someone who fures a flute.

I've always said flotist. I think it is the standard in the UK, definitely. Me too. I think that's because we're British. Dan? Yeah, I'm not a good one to ask. I only just found out through James that I've been saying pianist wrong this whole time. That's a pianist. Okay.

But flutes are four times as old as farming. Are they? Yeah. People were just eating flutes for the first 30,000 years, aren't they? They found these bones with holes in, didn't they? And the holes are the correct distinctions. apart to make you think that they must be a flute. I'm a little bit unconvinced by it, I must say.

But that is like, yeah, that's... So there's one which I think they are more convinced by, which is 35,000 years old. And there's one which is a bit of a borderline case, and that's the one I'm basing it's on, which is 43,000 years old. It could be unbelievably good luck that there are these holes in it, or it could be there are a lot of bones.

Some of them must have holes in at the right spaces. But the 43,000-year-old one is the legbone of a cave bear, which is an incredibly epic thing to make... I know. Imagine the combination of skills that you need to be a flute player in 43,000 years ago. You need to be able to kill a bear, but also to have the finesse. Yeah. That is incredible.

I think we can safely say that the coolest guy in an orchestra or girl, which is not a difficult thing to be, I know, but is definitely the person who's playing the bear's limb. Right. In 1969, there was an Australian park ranger, and he heard the sound of a flute playing in the park. And it turned out that it was a bird called the liar bird. And the liar bird can copy people's noises. And, you know, you sometimes see them on, like, nature documentaries where they're making the sound of drills or something like that, or mobile phones because they've copied them.

So he heard this bird that was singing a tune that sounded just like a flute. and he did some research and he found that 30 years earlier there was a flute player who'd lived near the park with a pet liar bird and he used to play the flute to this bird and then he let the bird go free

into the forest and what he surmises is that that bird then taught the song to all the other lyrebirds and so what we're hearing now in 1969 in the forest was like a recording of a 1930s song

that that guy had played on his flute and it was that song about the Dennis the Menace from Venice, wasn't it? We should make full orchestras out of birds to save us having to carve all these instruments out of bare limbs. We could just train up lyrebirds to play everything. Or like Beyonce should release her next album purely on birds. On a bird.

Okay, just one thing going back to medieval punishment very quickly. In medieval Ireland, the punishment for masturbation was penance of 120 days. So you had to do your Hail Mary's and our fathers and stuff for 120 days. And for a priest, it was a penance of a full year. Every time you masturbated, you had to do that. And that is according to the penitential of Cominianus.

Stop. Pardon? The penitential of cominianus. There was a guy called Cominianus, and he wrote these rules about... Wow. So I'm getting a bit of interference. What was he called, James?

Sorry? He was called. He was also sometimes called just Cummian. If you didn't call me Fred, guys, just call me Fred. If you wanted to Latinize his name, it was Cominianus. Wow. I bet he didn't want to Latinize his name very much. Okay, that is it.

That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on our Twitter accounts. I'm on at Schreiberland, James. At James Harkin. Andy. At Andrew Hunter M.

And Anna. You can email podcast at QI.com. Yep, or you can go to our group account, which is at no such thing, or our website, no such thing as a fish.com. We have everything up there from all of our previous episodes to links to merchandise. So thanks for joining us this week. As ever, we hope you and your family members are still doing well, and you're all safe in these crazy, crazy times.

And we thank you for continuing to listen to us as well during this pandemic. We'll be back again next week with another episode. So we'll see you then. Goodbye.